Latest / The Becket Cook Show / "Being gay is a colossal waste of time" Jess Darnell's Testimony

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"Being gay is a colossal waste of time" Jess Darnell's Testimony · The Becket Cook Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: You are listening to The Becket Cook Show with your
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: host Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: visit his website at Beckettcook dot com. To help support
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  Speaker 2: Please consider subscribing to the podcast and leaving a five
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  Speaker 2: star rating.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to the show.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Today.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: I had a conversation with my guest Jess Starnell, and
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: his story is amazing. He was a prodigal for fifteen
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: years as a gay man. He is American, but he
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: was living in London and anyway, it's such an amazing
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: story of God's grace. I just want to warn you
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: though it. There are moments where it's pretty graphic and
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: he does get a little spicy, so just be warned
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: of that. But you won't regret watching this because it's
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: just a testament to the power of God's grace.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: But first award from our sponsor. Okay, so welcome Jess Darnell.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: That get Cook. Hello, I'm so thrilled to be here.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: I actually a few months ago, when the internet thing
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: was kicking off, I tried to send you an email
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: and for whatever reason the submit button didn't It didn't work,
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, well, maybe I'll try it tomorrow.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: I like whatever, And then you've found me and you
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: reached out to me, So I think it's a really
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: it's a cool kind of God thing, god timing.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I, as I mentioned to you, I people kept
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: sending me videos of you on Instagram because you would
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: do these kind of like ten minute like videos and
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: on TikTok and Instagram.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: But I don't have TikTok.
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  Speaker 3: It's a longer. Why.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I just I don't need it. I don't need any more.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I don't need any more social media.
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  Speaker 4: But anyway, so people kept sending me these videos of you,
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, who is this guy?
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  Speaker 3: And what?
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  Speaker 1: So I finally watched and I was like, wait a minute.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: This guy, this guy is amazing and hilarious, Like he's
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: got to come on the show. So I reached out
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: to you, and now you're here, So here we are.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: So tell us.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: You were Let's go. Let's start from the beginning. You
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: were raised in a Christian home.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Did you were your parents married throughout the whole?
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Mary raised in a Christian household. Both of
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: my parents professed Jesus. We did the we I like
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: to say we grew up in church in the sense
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: that we were at church on Sundays and on Easter.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: We had little we did little passion cycle crafts and
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: it was very much you know, Christmas was this is
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: about the birth of Jesus. But I don't think I
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: really I don't think I really got it. We did
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: the Christian elementary school thing in second grade. I came
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: home and said, Jesus come into my heart. And then
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: it was like, well past the potatoes. I mean, it
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: was kind of it, wasn't it. The Christianity I thought
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: was whatever I thought it was is not what I'm
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: in now, which is really interesting.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: And how old were you when and where were you were?
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: You were raised in Nashville?
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: Is that?
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Born in Nashville and I was there. We were
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: there for I think Mom and dad moved down there
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: in the mid eighties. Dad wanted to be a songwriter,
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: and Mom delivered babies for about thirty years. She helped
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: deliver Miley Cyrus. Fun fact, we're still waiting on that
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: thank you card.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: She a doula.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: She was she was in obgy and labor and delivering nurse,
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: working in women's health. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: but she loved that, and then I wanted to be
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: an actor for pretty from pretty young as soon as
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: I kind of realized. We would sit around and watch
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: movies and mom and dad would go, oh, I love them,
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  Speaker 3: They're so great, that's so cool. There was sort of
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: this understanding that it was a career option, and so
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  Speaker 3: I was like, well, I want to do that because like, wow,
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  Speaker 3: theatrics and drama and special effects, and I was kind
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  Speaker 3: of enamored with how the movies were made and yeah,
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  Speaker 3: so that kind of kicked me off on a trajectory
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  Speaker 3: pursuing that as a career.
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  Speaker 1: And did you have siblings?
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: I did? Do you have? I'm textbook middle child, textbook
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  Speaker 3: middle child, but I had two sisters. Yeah.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: And at what age did you start to sense that
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  Speaker 4: you were different?
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  Speaker 3: Mm? Meaning you were attracted to the same sex, right,
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: because I was already a weirdo anyway, But then it
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: kind of then just to get a bit spicier. I
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: think it. I think it probably. I mean when people
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: were calling me gay on the playground, I didn't know
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: what that meant. I had no idea what that meant,
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  Speaker 3: I was like, I just knew that it was kind
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  Speaker 3: of embarrassing and I was being singled out and I
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: don't want to do sports, and I just feel a
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: bit gross. But I think maybe around the time that
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: all the boys were getting the sex talk, the birds
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: and the bees talk, which I had to kind of
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: I sort of had to pull out of my dad.
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  Speaker 3: I really had to really to work hard to get
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: that conversation going. But then I still had questions that
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: were left unanswered, and I didn't really feel like, I
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: it's it's one, it's just embarrassing. It can be kind
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: of gross when you're a kid and you don't want
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: to talk about that thing. And so, like any self
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: respecting millennial, I turned to the internet instead of the
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: people that could have offered me some actual advice and
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: some actual guidance. So I think once I kind of
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: I was finding I was I eventually that sort of
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: leads into some poor an exposure, and I think when
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: that happened and I went, oh, I'm feeling really viscerally
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  Speaker 3: and really I'm very very it's so intense what I'm watching,
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  Speaker 3: and it's validating what I've been told I am by
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: people that are being mean, So I kind of I
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  Speaker 3: think it was. I think it kind of merged the
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: language there sort of it it justified the experiences a
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: little bit, and I went, oh, okay, so maybe this
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: is like this is what I am. I guess, but
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: I didn't really. I don't know. I guess being like
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: all the stories we're watching at home tend to be
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: a lot of princess storylines, but like we're playing, we're
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: playing barbies and dress up and it's not it's so
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: innocuous and innocent and fun. But I think the oh,
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: this is what I am, coupled with the like, oh
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  Speaker 3: the porn exposure seems to be confirming that. Plus every
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: movie in TV is about being different and you don't
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: need to conform and you need to find someone who's
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: different like you to find your people. Like it was
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: just I think it was a big perfect storm of
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: all of that. But I think it was about ten
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: eleven when I was kind of like, I'm not really
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: looking at girls because girls are my sisters. That's like
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: we play around in like I don't know were it's there.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: It's sisters. I didn't I didn't have brothers, so I
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: guess there was there might have been a thing happening there.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And were your parents at all aware that you
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: were different as a kid? Like were did they suspect this?
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, I on paper as a gay man, I
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: was about as cliche as they come. I think the
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: wisdom of Oz was those film I watched more than
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: any other film. And I had a little easter basket
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: that looked a bit like Dorothy's basket, and I would
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: spin around in a circle until my vision started to
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: like spin and tilt because it reminded me of when
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: she gets hit in the back of the head by
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  Speaker 3: the window during the cyclone and it kind of cross
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  Speaker 3: fades while she's going into dreamland like I was. I
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: loved I dream of Genie I was. I absolutely flipped
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: over Barbara Eden. I mean it was just like I
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Show Busy Musical Theater when I tried to come out
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: twice as bisexual, ha. When I tried to do that,
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  Speaker 3: it was kind of like I found myself as a
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: teenager being like, are y'all not? Why are y' all absurd?
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  Speaker 3: Surely this is not a surprise, Like I don't But
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: they didn't ever, that was never the response that that's
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: not the response I remember anyway. I don't they were
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: very It was much more met with concern and trying
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: to trying to handle it, rather than like a what.
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  Speaker 3: I don't think anyone was really blindsided because I was
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  Speaker 3: always a daffy, theatrical, goofy kid, doing voices and imitating
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  Speaker 3: people like Jim Carrey and Robin Williams. I was super
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: out there anyway, So I think it was just a
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  Speaker 3: I don't think it really was a surprise in that sense,
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  Speaker 3: because I was already a bit of a funny kid
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  Speaker 3: to begin with, I guess.
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  Speaker 4: And so, how as a kid when you were dealing
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  Speaker 4: with that and understanding that you were attracted to the
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  Speaker 4: same sex, like, how did that impact your Christianity or whatever?
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  Speaker 1: You know, what you're upbringing.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it. I don't think it started
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: to become an issue really until I tried to come out.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: I think there was a around like sixteen seventeen eighteen.
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  Speaker 3: That's kind of the window where I tried this sort
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: of double attempts to come out. I think I was
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: leading up to that, I was feeling conflicted, and I
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  Speaker 3: had heard in a wider sense that being gay is
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  Speaker 3: a sin. But then you feel these things and they
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  Speaker 3: seem to arise naturally and you don't really know if
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  Speaker 3: they You're not thinking when you're a child, is it
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: because I've seen some unspeakable things on the internet watching
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: men do something like you don't you don't take that
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: into account that you might be thinking that way. So
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: I was like, this just is like what I'm I
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: wanted something very traditional. I wanted to be just like
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: everybody else, but the only difference was that it was
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: a man, and I didn't really see anything wrong with that,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: and so I had a lot of you know, you
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: don't turn to church. Wasn't a place where you could
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: lay all your burdens down and try and push into Jesus.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: It was people are going to be mad at me.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be in trouble. So it's it's so
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: it's so funny to think back on how childlike the
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: conflict is, because it's I wasn't really going like God's
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: gonna hate me. In fact, I had a moment that
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: felt like a movie where I was so frustrated about
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: it all. I put in my little iPod Nano and
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: was listening to Cat Stevens and in my feelings running
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: through the neighborhood and it's hot, and I just burst
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: into tears, and I feel like I heard this voice
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: saying it's okay, It's okay, and I felt so relieved
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: and felt like at the time that it was God
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: telling me that no matter what happens in the family home,
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: no matter what Dad says or mom says, You're gonna
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: be all right. And it's funny to think about that now.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: And actually I'm at the other end, and I do.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: I do think in a way God gave me a
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: little nudge to go, You're gonna be all right. We're gonna,
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: we're gonna we'll get out the other end of this eventually.
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  Speaker 3: But I but at that time, it was like, well,
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  Speaker 3: God has told me I'm okay and I'll be fine,
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  Speaker 3: So I'll just get my head down and not upset
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  Speaker 3: anybody and try and make good grades and just kind
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: of get through.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this short break.
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: And how did you decide to move to the UK
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: rather than just go to like Juilliard or well.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: I wanted to do Juilliard and I got a call
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: back in an interview, I got really close, and I
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: had a theater teacher in my high school that was
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: from the UK originally, and he went, why don't you
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: check out Rada or one of the cool schools over there.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: And I'd never been out of the country, and they
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: had a New York City audition, so I flew up
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: there to so that I didn't have to potentially be
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: told no by flying all the way to the UK.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: And I thought I blew it, thought I bombed the audition,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: and I was gonna because in the States the calendar
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: is different, so I had to make a decision on this.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: They do like a National Decision Day or some stupid
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: thing like that, so I had to I nearly. I
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: had a really good financial aid package from a school
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: in Birmingham, Alabama, which has now gone bankrupt a few
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: years ago, which is kind of funny.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Dodged the bullet there, but I.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Had put my deposit in to go to this school.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: And then the next day I got my acceptance letter
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: to my school in the UK, and I it was like,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: I thought I didn't get in. Oh my gosh. So
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: it was such a triumphant, exciting Wow. Judy Dench went there.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Laurence Olivier went there, Jess is gonna go abroad and
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: learn how to do Shakespeare. And this is so cool
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: because I was at theater nuts I did something like
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: thirty one shows in six years. I was absolutely theater
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: was my life. It was the air that I breathed.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: So to was this rata or was it a different thing?
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Now? It was the central school of speech in drama.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: That's what it's called. Okay, and yeah, I went over
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: there and it was I was so excited to go.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: And then things got a little hairy because I had
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: this thing of well, I'm I tried to come out,
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: it didn't really go well, and I'm still gay. And
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: now mom and Dad can't run into me at the
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: grocery store. So you know, I think when my im
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: try and we can turn the volume up on that
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: Donna Summer record a little more, like maybe we can,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: maybe we can. Oh, I'm scared of these gay bars.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I the amount of times I
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: went out walking and would just walk by. I was
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: so terrified to go in, and I had these crazy
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: levels of paranoia, Like I went on a date with
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: a guy once and we were going through Green Park
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: and at the time. This was before they opened the
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth line at green Park. If you were coming from
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Heathrow to come to my house, you had to change
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: at green Park from the Piccadilly line. And we passed
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: through green Park and the doors opened, and I was
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: holding his hand and I let go of his hand
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: because it's possible that they might be over here to
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: surprise me, and they're gonna be on the platform when
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: the door's open, and they're gonna see me kissing this
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: guy on the train. So like, not in a really
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: mentally stable place, but trying to sort of fumble my way,
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: you know, when like a giraffe gets born and it
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: hits it like falls eight feet and hits the ground
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: and tries to like it's kind of this clumsy I'm
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: not turning to Jesus at all. I'm not like the
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: God thing is kind of this thing that I don't
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: really know about. I kind of remember it and know
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: that it's nice, but I, well, I don't know about that.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: So I was just kind of going through life with
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: my mind and my body and my immediate surroundings and
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: my feelings, and that was that was how I was
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: living for a long.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Time, and so when did you kind of become comfortable
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: in your own skin as quote unquote a gay man.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: I think I think there was it was sort of
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: a gradual amp up. But I think what what happened
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: was that it was getting too much to bear this
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: feeling of dishonesty with my family. Every phone call home
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: was in a lie biomission, and I wasn't really being
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: honest about what I was doing on the weekends, and
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: I was I just it was so awful, and it
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: started to get in the way of work at school.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: I had my voice teacher call me in after I'd
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: blown up and acted crazy in a rehearsal room, and
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: she was like, I think you want to do the
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: counseling session or the counseling program here. And I did
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: one session, walked home in tears, wanted to call my mom,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: just to call my mom, just because I just needed
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: mom talk. And we got to this point in the
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: phone conversation where there was this thing that we hadn't
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: talked about, and we're both silent, and we both kind
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: of know what's coming. And I don't even think I
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: said Mom, I'm gay. I just said, Mom, there's this
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: thing that we've talked about before, and it's not going
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: away and it's not changing, and I need you to
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  Speaker 3: know that. I need you to know that because I'm
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: in pain, because I need you to know that. And
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: she was kind and sweet, and it wasn't there wasn't
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: any kind of snap reaction. It was just I need
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: some time to process, and that was kind of it.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: And then from there, I wrote letters home to my
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: other family members because I we're a family of big personality,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: and I couldn't. I felt like a phone conversation was
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: too much. If I was, I wouldn't I wouldn't be
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: able to fight back if they pushed back. So I
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: wrote letters and poems to everybody. This big elaborates so dramatic,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: but I it was when I got off the phone
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: with Mom and I had I ran up to my
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: roommate's room upstairs and I was like, I did it,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: and she knew what I meant, and I burst into
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: tears and had this it felt like fifteen twenty minutes
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: of this hysterical laughing, hysterical crying. I mean this huge
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: emotional unburdening, this release of like I finally have done
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: this thing that has been the thorn in my side
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: since I was fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, and like, I'm finally
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: free of it. And the next day I went into
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: school and someone who did not know what had happened said, wow,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, you're you're glowing, like how how are you?
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, like it shows they could tell.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: And I had a tremor in my hands for most
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: of my teenage years and I would sweat really easily.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: After I came out. That went away. So I had
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: this really tangible like, oh, I've let go of something
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: and I can't argue with that. And of course I'm
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: in a drama school, in movement class hearing the body
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: never lies kids like, so I'm like, okay, so the
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: body is my the body is my God or the
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: physicality or the movement of the universe is like that's
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: where the truth is. And so this thing went away
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: in my body and I went, oh, like this must
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: be the real deal. And so I think once I
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: was out then it was like I'm I am buying
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: clothing that I've never dared buy before, and I'm going
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: into places I never dared go before. And I was
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: still very shy, still very scared that I was something
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: crazy was gonna happen, because like the God thing was
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: still kind of in the back of my mind. But
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: I met my first long term boyfriend, and I think
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: it was it was so emotional for me and felt
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: so much like intimacy and was so meaningful and important
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: and significant. Fell in love for the first time, and
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: I think that was That was when it was like wow, like, look,
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: I always wanted this artistic, bohemian life and this lifelong lover.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: And I even wrote a I wrote a little short
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: story about an American expat in the nineteen twenties who
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: runs into this blonde guy out in this seedy little bar.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Well lo and behold, I'm this little American guy in
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: the twenty twenties and I run into this beautiful blonde
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: guy in a seedy little bar, and it just seems
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: like everything, all the all the world is pointing towards
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: this this nol coward, cold porter, gorgeous Christopherisherwood fantasy.
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: And so ja, yeah, I was gonna say, it's totally
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: I read that book got me together.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, I was so that was absolutely.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Which is crazy to think that I took so much.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I took so much solace in this like indulgent, dramatic
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: like thing, like I never saw a peace.
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: I wanted exciting, you know, wine filled evenings, which is yeah,
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: so yeah, it's so that's kind of yeah.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: And then so how long did this relationship last?
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: It was three and a half years. We that was
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: through COVID. It was me, It was me, me, it
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: was me, well, I mean as far as I know,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: it was me. We were We did a year and
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: eight months long distance over COVID as well physically we
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: were first we were apart from each other longer than
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: we were in the same country, in the same place.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, but it it really I found myself. It
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: was so wonderful and amazing. And then I moved home
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: after school finished, and then the world shut down, so
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: then I was stuck over there. And then I moved
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: back to the UK on a new visa and a
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: new horizon and I'm going to be a citizen and
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: this is going to be where I'm gonna settle. And
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: I moved back in with him, and I find that
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: I should be happy, but I'm not. We should be
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: it should be great, but we're not. And we're I'm
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: finding that I'm anxious, and I'm I'm I'm comparing myself
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: to other boys, and I'm comparing him to other boys,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: and I'm comparing us to other couples I'm meeting. And
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: why am I? Why is my lover my the guy
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: who should be my everything? Not like the relationship I
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: have with my best friend who happens to be a girl. Interesting. Interesting,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: But I'm like, why why is that relationship so much
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: more like what I want with this man? And it
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: bubbled up and bubbled up and a man, I mean,
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: we had we had a code word for when I
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: was getting wobbly like it would. I was, no, you
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: go to bed, I'll have another splif no, I'm gonna
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna stretch, I go for a walk, I'll do
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: some journaling. I mean it was because if it doesn't
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: go well, the parents who told me that being gay,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: that lifestyle is no good and that it's about only sex,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: and it's not it's not what God wants. If it
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: goes badly, then the parents are right. Then damn it,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: my mom and dad are right. So over my dead body,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: am I gonna let that happen? So I probably we
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: probably got We probably were in there for a year
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: or two long. I mean I it was six months in.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: I was like, I'm thinking about breaking up. Does this
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: mean anything? I don't know. I've never been in love before,
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: so I guess I'll just ignore that. I mean insanity, insanity,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: But I you try and stick with it because you
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: don't want to validate everybody else that's been saying, hey,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: this probably isn't it, and there's better things in other places.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: And were you in other serious relationships like that?
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, there were, there were a few you that were
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: shorter because after that broke because after I cheated and
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: we tried to stay together a little bit after that,
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: and then we kind of called it a night. Once
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: that was done, I was like, here we go, hot
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: girl summer because I never got to do that on
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: the front end, I like found I came out and
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: then kind of met him soon, so I never got
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: to do the crazy psychotic city gay thing where we
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: where we just were.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I was like, I.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Didn't get my rum spring, you know, I didn't. I
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: was like, Okay, we're gonna download Grinder, let's do it,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: but it's yeah, I I didn't. I didn't get to
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: do that. So I we we went crazy on that front.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: And then that was and then you discovered drugs as well, right,
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: you got it. Well, the drugs. The drug thing was
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: during during drama school. Yeah, during drama school, we would
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: go out on the weekends and people were I remember
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: very clearly the first time I got invited to go
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: and have a have a smoke and a chill at
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: someone's house and I said, no word of a lie.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: I said on a school night. So that's where I
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: used to be. I want everything to be traditional, and
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: the only difference is it's a man, and I want
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: it to be family first and really serious. And no,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I'm never gonna be one of those gays that downloads grinder.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: I'm never gonna be that person that does drugs. I'm
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: never gonna do that. That's not me, that's not who
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: I am. And then slowly you hang out at the
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: barbershop long enough you're gonna get your haircut. And we
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: were going out all the time, and the disco was intoxicating,
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: and I start doing MDMA and then we started doing
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: coke and there's all this sort of the social thing.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: And then yeah, when I'm back in the UK and
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: we're out partying, it's then by then I've gotten the
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I've mustered up the courage to phone the dealer myself
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: rather than get somebody else to do it. And so
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: the drug stuff starts to was was kind of a
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: very social thing at first. And it wasn't until later
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: that when the acting thing was really running dry and
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: really letting me down, that I started to work as
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: a DJ. And it was when I was DJing that
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: the drug use really took a spike. Wow.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: And and so was it like a daily thing like
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: the drug thing was?
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: It was a daily I mean, when you go to
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: a party that's three and a half days long, it
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: nearly becomes a whole week. You're halfway there. But I
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: I it was not a it was there are plenty
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: of I mean, I think back on my life and
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: I'm like, shoot, what a crazy what like the horror
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: of Babylon, what the hell? But but I also like,
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: there are plenty of other people like I am a
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: my track record, my body counts, I'm like a nun
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: compared to some other people. So it was not it's
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: much much more intense for a lot of other people.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: But I this is, by the way, this is what
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: a lot of like, you know, normal like heterosexual people
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: don't understand about the gay male world.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Oh it is. It's everywhere. It's everywhere.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: It's extremely promiscuous, it's extremely dark, it's it's drug fueled,
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: it's alcohol fuel.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: It is like, yeah, I'm not like and we don't
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: have to because we If you get me talking on
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: all of that, I'm gonna say something that's gonna get
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: both of us in trouble. It's gonna we're gonna and
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: you're gonna lose the family audience really fast. And maybe
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: that's an after hours episode we can do sometimes, but
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: the family. But the but the drug use was was
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: I would not And I realized that anyone who has
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: a real problem says I didn't have a problem. I
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: realized that that's the thing that a lot of people say.
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: But I it was. I definitely if you'd asked me,
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: if you had sat me down and gone, jess, what
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: do you what you think about all this? I would
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: have said, this is becoming a very expensive habit that
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: is on the verge of getting out of control. But
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: it was not a like a It wasn't like a
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: withdrawal thing. It was just like a I can't wait
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: for the weekend to get freaky. So it wasn't daily,
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: but it was. You know, the idea is you pick
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: up whatever for a party that's supposed to last one night,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: and then the party ends up lasting a few days
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: and then it's then you like you've missed work, or
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: you're behind on things, or you you know you haven't eaten.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Like it it's so quickly gets so, I mean, it's
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: just so evil.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: It's so evil, And so tell us about because there's
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: something about a ghost situation. Tell us about the ghost story.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Because this is very bizarre.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, I was hoping we weren't going to go there.
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: So the so a lot. So I mean, if dear listen,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: if you haven't, if you haven't sussed out, I was
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: not living my life for Christ during this period of time.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: And if you have a god sized hole in your
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: heart and in your life, you look for things to
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: fill that void. And I over COVID had found myself
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: really interested in astrology, found myself interested in taro, and
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: again theatrical kid was dev Oz was a big hitter
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: for me. I love I've always loved witches. I've always
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: think they're so they're the can't be fun cartoon Disney witch.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I always have really enjoyed that as a vibe, and
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: so I was always kind of drawn to it. But
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: then told that, oh, it's it's demonic and it's satanic,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: and I was like, well, if I'm just looking at
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: the cards, like, I'm not calling on Satan to do anything,
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: so it must be okay. But I was sort of
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: dipping my toe into that, and I took an online
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: course in witchcraft over COVID. Tell me you're lost without
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: telling me you're lost. And by the way, the water
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: of life is free for the taking, so you don't
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: have to pay five five, five, five hundred and fifty
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: five dollars for to discover your higher self or whatever.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: It's Jesus is free by the way, people. So I, yeah,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: I took this course, and so I was getting really
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: into astrology. That was kind of my party trick. Oh baby,
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: what's your do you know your moon and your rising? Like,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: let's that. Let's get into that, like, let me let
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: me offer some like wise old sage pastoral care to
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: help you, like discover your truest, highest self, your uttermost
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: good honey. So I was this like that was like
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: my social thing that I would do all the time. Well,
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Jess gets lonely, Jess is broke, Jess is like, ugh,
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I wish my two main idols in my life, I
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: think were I want to be a star and I
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: want to find the perfect man. And I was like, well,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: let's do a let's to do a ritual for this
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: perfect man to manifest this perfect man. So it was
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: a sex magic ritual where I drew a bath and
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: filled it with rose petals and drank red wine and
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: listened to Judy at Carnegie Hall, because what else do
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: you listen to in the bath? And I was imagining
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: what he looked like and what he felt like, and
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: what he sounded like, and what we would talk about
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: and all of this. And I would burn a pink
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: candle when I did that pink candle, and then we
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: moved into the bedroom and we lit a red candle
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: and we had done some unspeakable things with our own
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: bodily fluids on this candle and basically had this drawn
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: out imaginary thing where I was quote unquote making love
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: with this perfect man and essentially having sex with a
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: spirit of this thing or this idea of this thing.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: And it was. It was so intense that I was
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: I was pushed to emotion hearing this thing tell me
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: that it loved me, hearing this, feeling this thing hold
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: me and I how much of that is just imagination?
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: How much of that is Like it's if you don't
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: get it and you've never done the occult stuff, you're
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: not gonna get it. But it is. It was very,
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: very real in the moment, and I the idea with
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: witchcraft is that if you can cook it up enough
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: to the point where you can feel it, then it
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: already exists and all you got to do is align
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: yourself and magnetize so that it can come to you easily.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: So I felt like I was calling in the perfect man.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: So when I when I say sex with a ghost,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: it's it wouldn't that I drummed up any particular you know,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't get Oscar Wilde to raise from
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: the dead. But yeah, that's that was the sex with
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: the ghosts.
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sex with the sounds like a drink, some kind
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: of martini dream sex on the beach.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: But it's like it's really really like it's like some
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: drink sugar.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: It's skinnier, it's Skinner.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: It's funny you mentioned Carnegie Connie Gie Hall, Carnegie Hall,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: and and.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Uh, what's her name?
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: I just I just.
• 32:22
  Speaker 7: Love Garland Garland, Okay, because my my dear, my old
• 32:29
  Speaker 7: friend who no longer speaks to me, of course saying
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: it Carnegie Hall, and he sang Judy Guard.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: He did the whole thing of Night of Judy Garden.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, oh yeah I heard him.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: I saw he done that thing.
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, he and I we were friends back in
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: the day, briefly dated, but anyway, he's he thinks I'm crazy,
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: and like he won't speak to me, but pray for
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: rufus anyway, So how long? And then what like what
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: was it like going to Pride in London? And like
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: what was that? Was was that like did you feel like,
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: oh I'm I'm home at last?
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Or like how did you feel?
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: Well? There are many I was I think with this,
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: like growing up with this fantasy and this the film
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: and theater. I lived for the moments where things felt
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: lucid and joyful, and that the moment when the music
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: swells and you look at your friend and you know
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: what each other thinking and you both kind of get
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: a little teary eyed, and those genuine moments of lightness
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: and love and it feels it feels like something pure.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Those are the moments I lived for. So it was
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: always in the in the dramatic, heavy moments where I'm
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: riding on the bus and looking out the window and
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: it's raining and I'm the main character in this film,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: but I'm you know. Nevertheless, she persisted like I had
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: this weird, indulgent thing in my head about life looking
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: like the movies. So it was the moments when my
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: favorite Diana Ross song comes on and everybody's dancing like
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Matt and I look fabulous, and it's like we have arrived,
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Like this is this is it pride. I remember coming
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: up out of the station and there are so many
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: people and I am wearing a top that is not
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: even that crazy, but I it was one that I
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: like wouldn't wear at home because people would ask questions.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: I would worry that people would ask questions, Like I
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: was to be able simply to like wear some shorts
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: and a Keith Herring T shirt was and like not
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: and have people be like love your outfit. I like
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: it was so intoxicating. It was so intoxicating. It's so
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: overwhelming and you finally feel like you see it in practice,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: that it is, it's unbridled, and there's nothing that can
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: stop it, and that you're all united and you're all
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: screaming and screeching, and people look amazing and everyone feels hot,
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: and it's summertime and you're in one of the greatest
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: cities in the world and it's They close off the
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: streets and it feels so amazing. And then when the
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: parade ends, something else happens. The parade ends and everyone
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: congregates in this one park and people are drinking and smoking,
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: and then more drugs are passed around, and then things
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: get a little wiggy, and then as the sun goes down,
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, I mean like people are it's it's
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: like it's like something. It's like the Hell Mouth and
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Buffy the Vampire Slayer is opened up and if you're
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Heaven Forbid, you're in Vauxhall or Kennington or soho like
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: it is. It's just a hotbed of like the sex
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: parties and the leather parties and the like it is.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: People are having the because the city is so overrun.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: During the middle of the day, I mean, people are
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: getting with each other in fitting room closets and in
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: prime mark like it's it's totally overwrought, like it's chaos.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: It's chaos, and so precisely like it's it's exactly like that.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: I remember revisiting Sodom and Gomora more recently, and I
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: was like this, this has the the the crazy eyes
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: you get when you're like, it's pride. I better have
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: sex with someone today, because it's like it's like birthday sex.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm entitled to it. I'm it's pride. I'm gay.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: I should have sex today. I should I should be
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: able to find Surely, I'm in the city with nine
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: million people on this day when I'm looking my best
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: and everyone's looking hot, and we know that everyone's probably
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: we could probably find this and make this work. Yes,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: we can do it. And then the time ticks by,
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: it gets later. We're at the club. Yes, okay, oh
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: we kissed that one guy, but then he oh I've
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: seen him with someone else. Oh crap, Okay, we'll have
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: another drink well, or we keep going. We keep going. Okay,
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: oh we picked up more drugs. Okay, right now we're
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: like really going, We're really going. We really want to
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: have this and oh club closes. Okay, Oh there's an actress.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Thank god, there's an Oh. Oh they've left in the
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: cab already. Okay, I'm on my own in the city.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know where they went. No one's picking up.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: And you you walk and you you're on grinder and
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: it's like you're it's like you're fishing. Just anybody, anybody, anybody.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: And there was one there was one time I can't
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: remember if it was Pride in particular. I think it
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: was where I I walked through London on Grinder, desperate
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: to find some somebody was still up, because at that
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: point it's like it's a little too late. Sun's up
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: by now. And I stopped in a train station because
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: my phone was dying. And I could have gone home.
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: I could have gotten on the train and gone home,
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: but instead I plugged my phone into a socket in
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: the wall in this train station and sat there on
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: grinder and waited till I found someone who had just
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: woken up and wanted to wanted to meet up. And
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: this this is not liberation, that in itself is bondage, slavery. Hell,
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: it's it was crazy. It was so I like the
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: fact that I we oh, just it is it is
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: absolute enslavement. You're you're just under the thumb of your
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: of your own appetite and out it's just it's out
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: of control. And that that happened all the time, where
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: it was like there's surely there's you get this, like
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: it's oh, oh, it's just it's it's terrible. It's terrible,
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: it's terrible.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: So what Okay, So then what happened that? Why did
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: you why did things start to change? And why did
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: you decide to go back to your Bible?
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: This is my favorite part of the story.
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: Well, I I was I was dating this guy and
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: he was really sweet and astrologically we were almost the
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: same and.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: That was great.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: And we were both cancers and both burgo. I was like,
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: we're both aries moons and we get along so well
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: and whatever. And I start feeling this once again, this
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: pull of like hm, I feel like I don't really
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: want to commit, I don't really know like he's nice,
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: but like there's other guys out there that are And
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: I start thinking about God again, very very quietly, very
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: very quietly, and I sort of am so broke and
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: feel like nothing's really working. I've moved to this big city,
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: tried to pursue the acting thing. Theater feels like he
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: doesn't really want me anymore, and the DJ thing starts
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: to sell and starts to work. So I'm like, this
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: is cool. But no matter how hard I I sidhe
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: hustle and keep my chin up and do my little
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: affirmations in the mirror and try and Louise Hay my
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: way through a bad day, nothing's really working. And I
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: start to have this feeling of I wonder if I
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: just kind of want to see for myself. I just
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: maybe there's like gosh, like how do those Christians afford
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: all those kids?
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Like how do they?
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: How do they? I don't understand, Like it just seems
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: like maybe I'm just doing so maybe I am just
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: missing something. Maybe maybe maybe there is something to this
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: that I just haven't Maybe I just didn't get it.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: Maybe maybe there is a way that I could. I
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: don't know. It was just a very gentle thing. Trump
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: got elected. He gave a speech at his inauguration, and
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: I found myself watching inauguration speeches and I had been
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: away from the US for a long time, and I
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: had this deep like, oh, I miss the American spirit.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: I miss my people. I miss being around that like energetic,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: howdy partner, how are you buddy? Like I I was.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: I was sick of the tea. I was sick of
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: the milky tea. And I missed coffee. I missed black
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: coffee so badly, I know. And I was like, you
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: only have so many kappas of tea. Oh you can't,
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, And I and I love I love it
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: And Britain was a beautiful home to me, and was
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: I adore that I came to. I met myself and
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: while I met Jesus in Britain, so you know, we
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: love it there. But it's it's it's but I was
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: missing home and all of these speeches that that, you know,
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Reagan's giving or Trump's giving or what or whoever it was.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: There was this thing the well he died a long
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: time ago.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: But anyway, no, I was watching clips of old inauguration speeches.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Oicy icy, okay, okay, that.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: Was the ghost I had sex with. I didn't want
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: to admit it, but it was Ragan. And that's why
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying anymore. No, it's so okay, wait, wait,
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: bring it back. So I was watching these speeches from
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: the from inaugurations and there's all this talk about, you know,
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: God in our country, and I was just starting to
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: think about God again and I really wasn't sure what
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: to do with that feeling. But I ended up breaking
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: up with this boy and he was like, is there
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: anything I can do? After everything?
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: Well?
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: What could I do? And I was like it was
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: It was the first person I admitted it out loud too.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: I said, Okay, honestly, I've been I've been thinking about
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: God a lot lately, and I just don't know if
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: this is the right thing I need to be doing.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's like a sin or anything.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: I just I don't know if this is what I
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: need to do. And the way his face fell like
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: he knew there was nothing. There's nothing you can say
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: to that if someone's like, it's God, actually.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: And so it's not you, it's God.
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: It's not you or me, it's God. Right. So I
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: walked away from that, and then I did the single
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: you know Brat Girl. Summer still had a choke hold
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: on everybody. So I was doing bumps and going to
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: the club and whatever, and then I went to this
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: party on a Friday night and it was a sort
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: of London druggie eventually a sort of sexy whatever party,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: and I did not leave until the early hours of
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Monday morning. And I remember looking around at this party thinking, Ugh,
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: what are we doing lads? Like what are we really
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: going to be doing this until we're in our thirties, forties, fifties,
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: and like when we're no longer hot and young? Is
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: that when we get the nice apartment and the yappie
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: dog and fingers crossed we found a man by then
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: to stick it out with us till we die? Where
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: do we And if that doesn't happen, are we going
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: to be the embittered old queen at the end of
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: the bar, drinking gin regaling us with showbiz stories that
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: no one cares about? Like what's the Is that all
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: there is? You know? It's it was all that, It
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: was all of that. I was like, is I don't
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know? Ugh? And I I called my mom
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: a few days ago, a few good days later, and
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: I said, Mom, I think I'm caught up in a
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: culture that's kind of killing me. And I was wondering
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: if you could ship me my Bible and she was like,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: of course I can't. Of course I can do that.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: Well overnight it we'll do o kid, Yeah, of course.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: And I got off the phone and I couldn't wait.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: I was like, I need, I just need, I just
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: need to read. I needed to I need to see
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: what the deal is. And I had about I think
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: I had twenty pounds in one bank account and ten
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: or eleven pounds in another bank account. And I was
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: working as a walking tour guide at the time, and
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: I went to the closest bookshop I could find that
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: was near the British Museum, and I was like, Okay,
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: I get paid at midnight tomorrow, so if I move
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: this money around, I can buy this Bible, tap into
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: the tube, get home, and if I don't leave my
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: house at all tomorrow, then I'll get paid and then
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: it'll be fine. And that's how I lived for months.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: I was doing that all the time, down to the wire.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: I'm not sweat, I've been here before, who cares? So
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: I started reading in Genesis on the train because I
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: didn't know where else to start. And for the first
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: time I was there in the garden. For the first time,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: I was there with Abraham and Sarah. When Sarah laughs,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: I was I was there when the when the ocean
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: parts and they're walking through and they turn around and
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: they see this entire army enveloped by an ocean. I
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: was there. I was there. I could feel it, I
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: could see it, and it meant something that had it
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: had never meant before. And then, like a lot of us,
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: when I reached numbers, I couldn't bear the lists and
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: I was like, maybe I'll try the New Testament. I
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: was like, I can't be doing with these, but it
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: completely it was so so different. And then something interesting happened.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: I I started praying more. I was. I was lying
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: to my boss at work and not going to pick
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: up groups of ornery French tourists in Travalgar Square and
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: instead going to Saint Paul's Cathedral to pray. Lying that
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: I was. I was like cutting cut in school to
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: go and talk to God. And I had my moment
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: of Jesus, I need you yesterday, like I don't I
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: don't know how to do this. I don't know how
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: to be a believer. Can you show me how to
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: do this? Can you? I'm I like something's happening, and
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: this is crazy, and I was like, Okay, I think
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: we're I think this is happening. And I have this
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: older sister that when she came to Christ years before,
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: just before I left for the UK, she came to Christ,
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: and as it happens, when you come to Christ, do
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: you change. And when people don't really understand what's going on,
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: people get strange. And I don't think that my family
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: quite understood what was going on with her, and she,
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: as a result, had to elope. So it was about
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: five and a half years since i'd spoken to her.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: We were on good terms and we hadn't fallen out
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: or anything. I just hadn't heard from her in nearly
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: six years. And I was on my roof reading Proverbs
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: and I went, Lord, I don't know what the hell
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: happened back there, but I would love to forgive and forget.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: I would love to tell her what's happening to me? Lord?
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: Can you bring my sister back to me? And because
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: I was on a UK phone number, I had never
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: tried because I thought, oh, my plan doesn't let like
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: all out because I'm broke, That's not gonna work. And
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: I had this really gentle impulse to text her directly,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I don't know if she's blocked
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: me at all, I don't know. And I said, hey,
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: it's Jess. I have some news, nothing bad. I hope
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: you're well. And she rang me back in two minutes. Minutes,
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: she rang me back after nearly six years of complete silence,
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: and it was, Oh, my word, it's so wonderful to
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: hear your voice. What there's You've had kids, That's so cool.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: How are you You sound the same, but you sound
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: so different. Oh my god, my sister is back in
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: my life. And within a week of that phone call,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: she had reconnected with my mom and with my other sister,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: and there's this reconciliation that's starting to happen. And I
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: was like, okay, okay, Lord, you've really really got my attention. Okay, cool.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: And then I had this really nice Holy September where
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: I was dipping into church services and praying like crazy
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: and reading my scripture and he he ha ha, I've
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: really got a grip on this. And Halloween rolls around
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: and I have a bunch of DJ gigs lined up.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: I have a Thursday eight to midnight, a Friday nine
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: to three in the morning, a Saturday nine to three
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: in the morning, and then at Sunday ten to two
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: am in the morning. Well, I do Thursday, I do Friday,
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: I do Saturday nine to three am. And then I
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: go to an after party where I do not go home.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: I do not sleep. I don't think I ate either,
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: bought more, ran out of drugs, bought more drugs at
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: that party, stayed up, and then went directly to my
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: gig on Sunday that started at ten pm. Went home
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: with someone from that gig at two am, stayed at
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: their place, screwed around with snort and powder, and then
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: went to the train station for a modeling gig out
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: of town that I had, where they sorted us off
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: into hotel rooms and they paired me with one of
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: the most beautiful men I've ever seen, and I had
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: a little bit of coke left over, and we did
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: more ridiculous stupid stuff, and I turned around and went,
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: what the hell I thought? I thought I'd kicked this.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: I thought we were done with this. Like, not only
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: did I backslide, I backslid fell off the roof and
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: into the lake. Like it was bad. And I called
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: my sister in tears, and I was like this is like,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: so everybody is in an open relationship and no one
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: really cares about anyone, and this whole community is based
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: on is just held together by drugs and sex and alcohol,
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: and it's all fun in games until something really matters,
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: and then it's being people are catty and mean and
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: everyone's just damaged and lost. And I don't want any
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: part of this anymore. This is so, this is so horrendous,
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: and I feel like I can't get out. I feel
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: like I can't stop. I feel like this is like
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: what uh? And the next day I had a tour
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: group and court naturally, they were a group of French tourists.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: It's always the French tourists, and they don't speak any
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: English and they don't tip either, and I just exhausting.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: And I went into this Catholic church in Soho because
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: you in the city, the Catholic churches are a bit
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: cleaner and you don't have to watch your back. So
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: I went into this one officeode square and I got
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: on my knees and I, oh, I remember it so clearly.
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: I said, God, get me out of here. And I
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: don't know if that means get me new friends or
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: get me a new job because I kind of didn't
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: want to get out of let like, oh, don't take
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: me out away from here. But what I was saying,
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: I was hesitant saying it, God, get me out of here.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that means get me new friends
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: or get me a new job. But I am so
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: far in the pit I cannot see my hand in
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: front of my face, like, get me out of here. Lord.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: That was on a Tuesday morning. Wednesday morning, my sister
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: called me and said, Hey, I've been talking to my
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: family about what you're going through. You've said you're behind
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: on rent, you're behind on some credit card payments, You're behind.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: You kind of feel like you can't get out of
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: the city because you're sort of shackled financially. You're already
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: coming home for Thanksgiving. Why don't you not get on
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: the plane back, itemize what you need. We'll all chip
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: in and we'll cut you loose. Come stay with us
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: for a couple of months. We'll find you a car,
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: you can get yourself a job, you can be around
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: other believers. You're new in your faith, you're weak in
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: your faith. Why don't you like give it a shot? Overnight?
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: Within less than twenty four hours, a solution, an opportunity,
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: and I said I couldn't possibly leave this city. Life
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: I have, life was too good over here. What are
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: you talking about? And then she said, I'm trying to
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: make an offer your you're unable to refuse, like you've
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: been telling you Just yesterday you told me how terrible
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: it all is. So are you gonna go? Or are
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: you not? Iner you out? And I and thank God,
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: praise Jesus that I said yes. And I had a
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: week and a day to pack all my stuff up,
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: get everything into storage. And my landlord was understanding, and
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: it'd seen that I had been acting a bit differently
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: within the last month or two and was an angel
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: in understanding and let me let me pay him once
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: I got back on American soil. And that was I said,
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: I'll give it. Three months and two days ago, I
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: think I'm nine months drug free and I'm I've paid
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: off three student loans and I've zeroed out my British
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: Amix that was hanging over my head. And at some
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: point I decided to sit I made the crazy decision
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: to sit down in front of my phone and say Hi,
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: my name's Jess. And I think being gay's a colossal
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: waste of time. And here we are.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: And the praise God. So what was like?
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: What was there like a kind of a moment, like
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: a turning point where you went from darkness to light
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: like was it like or was it just that that
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: gradual kind of reading the Bible?
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: Well, the gradual thing was was the main structure. But
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: I think the primary, the primary thing that happened was
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: that I was reading Galatians. It was five sixteen and
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: seventeen the spiritless after the matters of the spirit the flesh,
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: because after the matter of the flesh, and the two
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: are contrary, with the one to the other, so that
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: you cannot do what you want. It wasn't the Leviticus verse.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: It wasn't the other usual, the famous Klobber verses. It
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: was I have grown up my whole life feeling conflicted
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: about God and my sexuality. I feel so in conflict. Well,
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: guess what, baby cakes, you are in conflict and feeling
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: conflict on purpose. It is by design that you feel
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: feel conflicted. It's it's that's that's the point you feel
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: tied between the two because you must make a choice.
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: And that was the that was the thing that really
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: clicked me over to go whoa, I actually, yeah, they
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: are too. They're two separate things and you can't serve
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: two masters. And I like I It was the the
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: appetite versus the spirit, this thing that I've just gotten
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: to know, like, how do I yeah? But it was
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: it was Galatians five was the the thing where I went, oh,
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: maybe I've gotten it wrong. And what was interesting was
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: that it wasn't an emotional but this is who I am. No,
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: I can't, I can't throw all those away. It wasn't
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: anything crazy like that. It was it was like I
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: was playing a card game and someone went, oh, no, no,
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: you can't. You can't discard unless you draw first. And
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: you go, oh, sorry, hold on, I'll just fix that.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: I went, oh there are rules, Oh there's a design.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: Oh I'm doing it wrong. I love that. So yeah,
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: it really it was such a It was so quiet.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: It wasn't It wasn't this. It wasn't this like big
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: crazy emotional thing, this identity crisis. I mean that came later,
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: because I mean it was I was listening to I
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: was listening to you. You or your podcast was an
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: amazing resource for me. And I was listening to Zaria
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: Butterfield one of her testimonies where she's like, it's just
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: not true. I went, oh, it's not true. Crap. I
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: mean it really, it's it's been wild, it's been wild.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: But I mean it felt like a train wreck because
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: all of my friends were we're gay, and we're drag queens,
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: and we're feminists and all this, you know, everyone. I
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: didn't have anyone I could talk to Jesus about. And
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: so all of these online online resources that I was finding,
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: Christopher Yuan's book and his talks and things, I mean,
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: it was really it was so it really really showed
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: me that there's a there's a version of this life
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: that I have found myself in where there's there, where
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: there's hope, and there's movement, and it's and it's just
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: been Jesus is the best thing that's ever happened to me.
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: It's ever happened to me, Praise God.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: So wait, tell me what happened when you flipped on
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: the switch on your phone and started recording these videos.
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: How did people react? How did your friends react? I
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: did quote unquote gay Christians react.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: Because I heard you say that they were the ones
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: that came at you. The most people are the quote
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: unquote gay Christians.
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: Well, like, I'm a big softie. So when I when
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: I I didn't. I arrived in Knoxville and was like this,
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: there's nothing going on in this one horse town. I'm
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: accustomed to nine million people on my doorstep and there's
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: always something going on, and like it's boring. I was like,
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: this is boring. I'm bored here. And then I was like, well,
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: I went to this hotshot drama school in London. Maybe
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: I can swing apart in a in some regional theater,
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe I can swing an equity contract and
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: do something. And I met with the theater director and
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: the table that we were seting that was wobbly, and
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: he kind of picked his nose one too many times,
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: trying to be subtle, and he wasn't, and I just thought,
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: good lord, like I was driving home, going god, okay, fine, fine,
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: if you I have given my life to the to
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: the theater, I have lived by like it has been
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: the it has been everything to me. If you really
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: really really want me to give this up, give this
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: passion up, give this skill up, fine, fine, I'll do it,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: and I'll be busy about it. But I want to obey.
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: I want, I want what you want for me, and
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: I don't want anything else. But if I if I
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: really have to do this, I will fine. And I
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: got home and I smoked a cigarette and I thought,
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: I've been I've been thinking about sharing my story online.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: But what about my acting career. What if I get canceled?
• 58:52
  Speaker 6: What if the oh no, what if Ryan Murphy sees
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: me and doesn't want me on his show?
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: We know that one above the salt rhyd of my
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: I know, I know it's like and we all know
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: what a bum decision that would turn out to be. Anyway,
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I don't want I don't want to. I
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: don't want it even near me. No, thank you. But
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: I I was like, oh what like know it's I'm
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: not gonna Oh the dream will be dead and deferred
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: if I talk about Jesus online. And then I went, girl,
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: what acting career? What are you talking about? Nobody knows
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: who you are, no one cares. You haven't done any
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: you've done an immersive dining experience. What the hell you
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: you have no acting career? Shut up, shut up? And
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: I went, okay, fine, I have nothing I have literally
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: nothing to lose. I have twenty five dollars in my
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: bank account. I am living with family in recovery of
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: some kind of I've made this crazy decision. I'll just whatever, Fine, Fine,
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: I'll do it. I didn't think anything was gonna happen.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: I thought maybe I'd get eight hundred views, and like,
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: maybe maybe I'll just like the video diary for me.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: I guess I really didn't think anything was gonna happen.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: And then I woke up the next morning and it
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: had been watched three hundred and fifty thousand times, and
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: then by the end of the day it was eight
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty. And then I had ten thousand people
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: following me, and then I had thirty thousand people following me,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: and then I had forty third and it was it
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: was so crazy to like to see the numbers jump
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: and to see comments rolling in, and I had four
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: hundred messages rolling in in the space of a couple
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: of hours, and people are going, I'm going through the
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: same thing. This is amazing. I have parents reaching out
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: to me saying, my son has come out as this,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: or my daughter has come out as that. What do
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: I do? And I'm like, what do I do with
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: the Like I suddenly overnight had a ministry on my hands,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: and wow. I was like, well, okay, well I guess
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: I guess I got to respond to some of these messages.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: I guess I whoa and I you know when I
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: was a and it made me what was What was
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: incredible though, is that ivery. I caught it really early,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: going ooh, maybe I'll get endorsed by massa chips, ooh
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: maybe maybe maybe what's that Patriot mobile maybe or whoever
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: whatever that was, you know, the usual kind of cowboy
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: colostrum or the you know, the people that endorsed the
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: conservative folks. I was like, oh maybe, oh look at this, like, oh,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: here we go, and I went, hold on, brother, hold on,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: we gotta it's about following Jesus. And we started doing
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: this because we're talking about Jesus and this is not
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: we're no no, no, no, no no no. We cannot.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: We cannot get sucked into this fixation on numbers. We
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: cannot post anything unless we get the green light from
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: from my heavenly Father. We cannot. The minute this becomes
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: about anything else other than Jesus, we can't. Oh it's
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: it's danger, danger danger. I don't. I don't. I am.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: And it gave me accountability. I got recognized in public.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: Two days later. I was like, oh, well, I guess
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: I can't. I guess I can't mess up and go
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: to the Oops. I found myself at a gay bar
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: and oops, I'm on grinder and Oop. I can't do
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: that because I don't know when I meet someone now
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: if they've seen me online. So I can't do that.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: Thank God, I'm too proud to let it to screw up.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: I don't. I can't. I can't do that. I don't.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, it's he's knows me. So he knows
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: me so well, he knows me so well to put
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: in little things that just keep me on track. But
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: I it's given me accountability, It's given me a ministry opportunities.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: It's it has it, and it made me reliable on
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: my Bible and on the Lord in a way that
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: it that I never had been before. Because suddenly I
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: was like, well, oh God, like I please, I need
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: answers like I was it. I was like, the only
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: way that I will be able to handle this, because
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: had I been famous, had it gone well out of
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: drama school. I think I would have been chewed up
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: and spat out, eaten alive. I easily would have ended
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: up in the twenty seven club easily. And I think
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: the only way that I'm I am, I have been
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: able to deal with this with a modicum of discernment
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: and levelheadedness. It's because of the words in this book
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: and the the and the and depending on and depending
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: on Christ. It's the only way, the only way I've
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: been able to handle this, because yeah, I think about
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: how I was. I mean, it would have just would
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: have been devoured, would have been devoured.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: And so what do you say to people who reacted
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: to your videos who are saying things like you know,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: you're not being your authentic self?
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Like why aren't you being your true self? Like what's
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: going on? Like what do you what did you say?
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: What did you say to those people? Or what would
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: you say to those people?
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: Well, one, you probably don't know me. For one, you
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: don't know me. And also I spent fifteen years thinking
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: I was being who I thought I was.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: I spent all that time.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: Thinking I was thinking I was being authentic.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 8: I was I was doing rage rituals to release the
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 8: burdens of intergenerational trauma, and I was I was being
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 8: a voice for queer people, and I was wearing my
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 8: heels in the Pride parade.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: I tried being myself and it was awful. I tried
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: that and I was wrong. And I tried that and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: it was inconsistent and it was unreliable because I get
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: pimples and I have gas, and I gotta eat every
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: four hours, and I have to pay bills, and I
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: die at the end of all of this. I don't
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: want to rely on that. I don't want to rely
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: on a boyfriend who forgets to text me, forgets my birthday,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: or I forget his and then we get an argument.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: I don't want to he also gets pimples and has
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: gas and is annoying and gets angry and dies at
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: the end of all of that, I don't want to
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: put my faith in that at all, Man or woman.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: I don't want that. So your true self is gar
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: It's garb. But your true self is not worth your time.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: And your true self is in Jesus Christ. And that
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: makes no sense if you don't know what I'm talking about.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: And I pray to God that you get slapped across
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: the face, and you have a revelation that is louder
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: and impossible to ignore because when you understand what I
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: mean by that, everything changes. Everything changes. But you I
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: don't want to be who I truly am. I don't
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: want to do that. I don't want to do that
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: because I don't. It's it's gross, it's gross. It's gross. No,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: I don't want to be my true self. My true
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: self is evil and weak. Oh, I gotta calm down.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: I'm sweating.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: I can't say now you're your to yourself, you're finally
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: your truerself because you're furious.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: My true self is furious on the behalf of the kingdom. Yes,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: fed up with this basic behavior.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm so happy that, uh, you can't the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: prodigal came home to the Lord, that God dragged you
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: back kicking and screaming to himself, and that you have
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 4: an amazing future ahead of you, young man, and that
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: you're you have eternal life, which is kind of a
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: big deal. And you know, you have a relationship with
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: the King of the universe, which I always say, you
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: know this, like he'll never leave him for saying he's
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: not like your boyfriends are Jesus.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: Doesn't do open relationships.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 7: He doesn't relationships, he doesn't leave it for sake, he
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 7: doesn't cheat on you.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: Why like and you know what, I horror around. I
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: still still find it. You find little ways to horror
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: around and you He is so faithful to me, and
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: I still in my thoughts, Oh that, oh that sexual encounter.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: Oh I'm oh, I'm enticed. So I'm pulled away or
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: I'm blown about by every doctrine like it's it's an
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: ongoing thing, but it is. I keep He's so faithful,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: He's so good to me, and I I the my
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: repentance prayer is usually the prodigal son, Lord, I've sinned
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: it against you and in the eyes of heaven and
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: I'm not where they'd be culture son. That's usually how
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: I started. It's yeah, the idea that there's there's joy
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: in the presence of angels of God in heaven over
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: one sinner that repenteth. I remember reading that and crying, going,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: what do you mean they're celebrating over me? Over me? What?
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: Like there's a I imagine this kind of like celestial
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: like soccer match arena, like it's Wembley and it's like yeah,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: like it's all it's like they're just like throwing their
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: crowns in the air. They're like little halos in the
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: air like it's graduation or something. You know. It's just
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: it's like like they're at the dog track. I don't know,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: it's just funny to think about it that way.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: But h yeah, Well I am so happy for you, Jess.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: And let's just I just want to repeat your mantra.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: Being gay is a waste of time. So if anyone's watching,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: who is stuck in that life. I don't like the
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: word lifestyle, but if you're stuck in that life, please
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: just do it, justa just just grab a Bible and
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: just start reading it and ask God to change you
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: and reveal.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: Himself to you.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: And he will just keep knocking and he'll open the door, honestly.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: And it's like I remember I remember saying, Lord, I
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: don't really know about this whole gay thing, Like I
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: don't know if it's really a sin. I don't know,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: Like I feel like I'm on paper, I'm a pretty
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: good like secular Like secularly, I'm a good person, Like okay,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: I've like I shoplift protein bars, but like I'm I'm like,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: I don't wy, I don't, I don't. I'm like, I'm
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: not rude whatever, But I remember saying, Lord, show me
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: my sin so that I can be repulsed by it
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: if it's really if it's really wrong, and if it's
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: really something I don't need to do because I'm too stubborn,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: show me my sins so that I can be repulsed
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: by it then. And it's a scary prayer to pray,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: because you because he answers, but I, I mean, I
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: was at those parties going I don't want to do
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: this any like, I don't oh no, like this hookup
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: was weird, this like this guy's I don't feel this
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: is if you are, if you're sitting over there going, well,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's I don't know if any
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: of this is real, or if I don't ask him
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: to reveal himself to you get sitting the very things
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: that you're thinking to yourself. He already knows anyway, But
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: if you report it to him, if you say, I'm
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: not sure about this whole sin homosexuality thing, like can
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 3: you be clear with me? Can you show me? Can
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: you help me understand this? Can you help me be
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: a believer? Can you show me how to be a believer?
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: Like the beginner questions, are I found to be super helpful?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, amen to that. We're gonna leave it there.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: And by the way, I just want to just emphasize
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: that if there are any people watching who are gay,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: who identify as gay.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: This, we're Everything we're saying is out of love because
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: we we've been there, we've done that.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: We know what it's like to be in bondage, we
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: know what it's like to be in darkness, and now
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: we've been transferred into the Kingdom of light.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: And it is absolutely unbelievable. And you will never regret it.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: No, you won't. And it's and it and it is
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: it's it felt like a breakup. When I was walking
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: around the city the last time, I was crying and
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: I was listening to Gladys Knight and the Pips, and
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: I was going, what am I doing walking away from
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: all of this? And oh, I used to be so
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: cool and go to house parties or do drugs. And
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: then it was like, well, zoom out, You're anxious, depressed,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: broke all the time. Life is not actually that great,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: and it's it's that thing of like if you say, yea, yeah, yeah,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: I've been really happy lately, you're actually kind of not.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: I think we all kind of I said being gay
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: is a waste of time the very first time, as
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: a joke, when some guy was texting me back and
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: I went ugh, and I think I threw my phone
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: across the room and someone went what I went, being
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: gay such a waste of time? And my gay friends
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: went ha ha ha, Oh don't I know it ain't
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: that the truth because we understand that it's a sort
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: of there is a sort of frivolity to it. There
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: is a we get that we're we're literally living the
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: fantasy because we've all just built a giant pillow fort
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: to live our lives out of. And no, don't take
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: away our blankets because we'll just well we because we
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: know we're just we got our heads in the sand
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: in a lot of different ways. And there's there's so
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: much I want to say, but I I am. I
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: it is. I loved, loved, loved my life, or thought
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: I loved it, and then it suddenly turned around and
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 3: seemed to not love me back. And Jesus loves you
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: despite your brokenness, despite It doesn't matter what you've done,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter how many boys you've slept with, don't matter
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: how many times you've ended up at fifty sixteen Street
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: getting your blood's done. It doesn't matter. He loves you
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: despite your brokenness, and he wants you you close to him,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: He wants you here. The message is the same though,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: for me and Beckett, as it is for your uncle Mike,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: and you're weird aunt Sally and the straight people too,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: because we're all broken. We are all broken. That's why
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: we all need saving. So it's not some kind of
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: homosexuality is worse than any other thing. It's this is.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: This is my this is what I'm called to talk
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: about because this is I was living it up and
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: do it gay maxing through. I mean I was, I
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: was doing it. So I just I Yes, if you're
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: hearing this, if you're hearing this, it's not what you
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 3: thought it was gonna be, and it's not what you
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: think it is. And I encourage just start reading. Just
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: pick up a Bible and start see what happens, See
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: what happened. Do it. I bet you won't.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna leave it there. Thank you Jess for
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: coming on I appreciate it.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Beckett, Thank.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: You, Thank you for listening to this episode of The
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Beckett Cook Show. Your support make this content possible. All
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: episodes of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry, visit his
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: website at Becketcook dot com.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: Thank you to the team at Life Audio for their
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: partnership with us.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you will find
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: More faith centered podcasts about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.