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Halloween and Women: Soothsaying Foods and Sexualized Costumes · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't come to stuff.
0:07
Speaker 1: I've never told your production of iHeartRadio. So it Samantha.
0:21
Speaker 1: The other day, I was talking about this old game
0:24
Speaker 1: I used to play, um that I'll get into you
0:26
Speaker 1: more in a second, but it was a predictive game
0:29
Speaker 1: of learning who your husband are, getting a clue who
0:32
Speaker 1: your future husband would be. And you had no idea
0:36
Speaker 1: what I was talking about. Still don't have you. I mean,
0:40
Speaker 1: did you do anything like that, like where you were
0:42
Speaker 1: trying to figure out any cruise about who your future
0:47
Speaker 1: partner would be. I mean we played the match game
0:50
Speaker 1: and then the little uh fortune teller game, the Fortune Teller,
0:55
Speaker 1: those games. But I've never had a real tradition. I
0:58
Speaker 1: know that there is one for Marty Gras. Is it
1:02
Speaker 1: a Marty Grot cake where they have a baby, a
1:05
Speaker 1: ring and something else in a cake? And if you
1:08
Speaker 1: find that then those are supposed to be significant of swords.
1:12
Speaker 1: Those are the only things that I know, and I
1:13
Speaker 1: don't know if that's Marty Gras. Is it Marty Gros
1:16
Speaker 1: Marty Gras has the baby cake. I believe there is
1:19
Speaker 1: a version that has like a ring or something that
1:23
Speaker 1: I know we did it at a wet like a shower,
1:25
Speaker 1: and I thought it was really weird because I've never
1:27
Speaker 1: seen that. And that was a college friend who they
1:31
Speaker 1: did this for at a bridal shower bridle lunch and
1:35
Speaker 1: looking around like what. So I'm still confused. So obviously
1:40
Speaker 1: I don't know these traditions very well. Well you are
1:44
Speaker 1: in four age three Halloween. Oh yeah, it is interesting.
1:48
Speaker 1: I believe I've heard of that cake thing you're talking
1:51
Speaker 1: about two, and I believe it's supposed to predict who's
1:53
Speaker 1: getting married next. Okay, yes, similar to catching the bouquet
1:58
Speaker 1: at a wedding, which is hilarious for because I'm very
2:00
Speaker 1: competitive and I've always caught it and I have no
2:03
Speaker 1: interest in getting married. Oh I'm so competitive. I'm like
2:06
Speaker 1: the person that's like bending now here we go, and
2:12
Speaker 1: then all these dudes will come up to you afterwards
2:14
Speaker 1: and they're like congratulations, and you're like, yeah, I caught it,
2:18
Speaker 1: clearly not what they've been talking about. Oh that's kincakes,
2:23
Speaker 1: kincakes kinka. Yeah, I mean normally, in my experience kincake
2:26
Speaker 1: doesn't have it is already gorod cake, but it doesn't
2:29
Speaker 1: have the ring. But yes, I think it's right, it's
2:32
Speaker 1: a baby. Yeah, okay, but yes, since Halloween is right
2:37
Speaker 1: around the corner. As we were recording this and as
2:39
Speaker 1: you listen to it, if you listen to it right
2:41
Speaker 1: when it comes out, we wanted to dig into some
2:44
Speaker 1: Halloween traditions that involve women, uh, and some more modern
2:47
Speaker 1: takes on these traditions or some more modern things that
2:50
Speaker 1: are going on, including games and costumes. And one of
2:53
Speaker 1: them is this sort of food tradition of like a
2:57
Speaker 1: food predicting who you're going to marry. And it is
3:01
Speaker 1: one thing that I've been really curious about this idea,
3:04
Speaker 1: and especially around Halloween, of these traditions around women eating
3:09
Speaker 1: or using certain foods so that they can figure out
3:12
Speaker 1: something about their future spouse, and it's usually a husband.
3:15
Speaker 1: It's very headro normative. Um. And this is something that
3:19
Speaker 1: I come across surprisingly regularly over the other podcast I
3:24
Speaker 1: do Savor, which is all about food and drink. We
3:26
Speaker 1: just an episode on Rosemary and there's a highly specific
3:30
Speaker 1: game girls used to play, and there's even a more
3:33
Speaker 1: modern version where you put like your phone and it
3:36
Speaker 1: has to have a picture of Rosemary on the screen
3:38
Speaker 1: under your bed. If you do, you'll dream about your
3:41
Speaker 1: future husband, but before phones, or you could get a
3:46
Speaker 1: printed picture, because that also works. People would put spriggs
3:49
Speaker 1: of rosemary under their pillow. Girls specifically will put sprigs
3:52
Speaker 1: of rosemary under their pillows. And if you dreamt and
3:55
Speaker 1: you saw the blurry face of a man, that was
3:59
Speaker 1: your future husb been, but if it was a clear face,
4:02
Speaker 1: that's not him, you stay away from that guy, which
4:06
Speaker 1: I love because it's so vague. Okay, Yes, Another tradition
4:12
Speaker 1: involves a ring hidden in a potato indicating who will
4:16
Speaker 1: get married next, or yes, the one I did that
4:18
Speaker 1: I mentioned at the top, and I think I've mentioned
4:20
Speaker 1: a few times on this show. I used to peel
4:23
Speaker 1: an apple and you toss the peel for some reason.
4:26
Speaker 1: I remember it specifically being over your left shoulder. But
4:28
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters. Um well, I guess it
4:31
Speaker 1: really doesn't matter in a lot of ways. But it
4:33
Speaker 1: was supposed to form the initial of the first name
4:38
Speaker 1: of your future husband if you left it outside for
4:40
Speaker 1: a couple of hours and I got a D or
4:43
Speaker 1: perhaps to see, which I do think are like the
4:45
Speaker 1: easiest letters it was gonna for right, Oh yeah, I
4:51
Speaker 1: to someone got a hy. I know someone got a cue.
4:55
Speaker 1: I need to know if someone got like any of
4:58
Speaker 1: the did you get any of those letters, because that
5:02
Speaker 1: would be more shocking yes for me? Yes? Or how
5:05
Speaker 1: many of those people who actually did marry a d
5:07
Speaker 1: C R O, which I imagine is z or l
5:11
Speaker 1: or I like, those are the people we'll see. I mean,
5:16
Speaker 1: I got my whole future out of me. Of course,
5:19
Speaker 1: these are their games, They're just games. It makes sense
5:23
Speaker 1: to me that girls who we've long taught that getting
5:26
Speaker 1: married is the end all be all um and for
5:28
Speaker 1: a good portion of history, something their future and security
5:31
Speaker 1: and happiness depended on. I would have these rituals around
5:35
Speaker 1: predicting who it was they were going to get married to.
5:38
Speaker 1: I believe we've talked before about mash like that was
5:41
Speaker 1: a really popular thing that right, I played match. Apparently
5:45
Speaker 1: I call it a different thing because I didn't want
5:47
Speaker 1: to stand for it. And then you want to shack.
5:49
Speaker 1: So I got a cabin, So you changed this apartment
5:54
Speaker 1: in our house. I love you made the rules fit you.
6:00
Speaker 1: I almost love it a check. That's fantastic. I really
6:06
Speaker 1: appreciate it. I mean, my own future, damn it, that's
6:09
Speaker 1: I love it. Anyway, so many of these games were
6:17
Speaker 1: ideally performed on celebratory days when seasons were changing, like Halloween.
6:23
Speaker 1: I know there's a lot of autumn festivals and the
6:25
Speaker 1: maple thing. It's very seasonal as well, like spring, right spring,
6:29
Speaker 1: the summer. Yeah, so when people believe that the veil
6:32
Speaker 1: between the living and the dead was thinner, potentially allowing
6:37
Speaker 1: them to see into the future to get some sense
6:41
Speaker 1: of what was coming Dune Dundune um So Halloween and
6:45
Speaker 1: its predecessor festivals in Europe also marked at the end
6:49
Speaker 1: of the harvest, beginning of winter less sunlight hours periods
6:54
Speaker 1: some worried may one day never end. I feel like
6:58
Speaker 1: that's a plot to a show which shows that, Uh.
7:01
Speaker 1: To that end, people would celebrate and make offerings to
7:04
Speaker 1: gods and spirits, and food was often a part of
7:08
Speaker 1: all of this, including something called the dumb cake, though
7:12
Speaker 1: it came around a bit later. Yes, and shout out
7:16
Speaker 1: to Jan who's been listening to all the backlog and
7:19
Speaker 1: it's been wonderful to hear here from Jan as they
7:23
Speaker 1: work through um for bringing this one to our attention
7:26
Speaker 1: and pointing us out to this very helpful and fun
7:28
Speaker 1: article over at Atlas Obscura. Written by Anne you Bank
7:32
Speaker 1: about this whole thing. Also shout out to listen to
7:34
Speaker 1: Renee for calling in about using the word dumb and
7:37
Speaker 1: how hurtful it can be in the deaf community. Um,
7:40
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do try to do better in the future.
7:43
Speaker 1: This is the name of this cake, but we're going
7:44
Speaker 1: to try to use it as little as possible. But
7:46
Speaker 1: I always appreciate these notes so we can do better.
7:50
Speaker 1: Oh bt dubs, because it's just reminded me of the fact.
7:54
Speaker 1: So I just rewatched American Horror Story some of the
7:57
Speaker 1: old seasons and they do talk about Halloween and the
8:00
Speaker 1: fact that during the season of the Witch season, rather
8:05
Speaker 1: where Madame Laurie coming back, and she was like, Oh,
8:09
Speaker 1: it's Halloween already, Do I need to say that out
8:11
Speaker 1: the lanterns and get ready for the bonfires and the
8:14
Speaker 1: festival essentially she talked about. I was like, Oh, yeah,
8:17
Speaker 1: that used to be the whole Jaqueliner thing. But then
8:20
Speaker 1: a listener also pointed out the fact that we forgot
8:22
Speaker 1: to mention Sarah Paulson being a screen queen. I was like,
8:26
Speaker 1: oh yeah, because she has that trend going on TikTok
8:29
Speaker 1: saying help me the killer is escaping anyway, This just
8:34
Speaker 1: reminded me of all of those things, so I feel
8:35
Speaker 1: like I needed to say that, and thank you to
8:37
Speaker 1: our listener for reminding me of that. Keep going. Yes, yes,
8:41
Speaker 1: she did appear on on some list Yes, um okay.
8:46
Speaker 1: So from the seventeen hundreds to nineteen hundreds, unmarried women
8:50
Speaker 1: in the UK and North America would take part in
8:52
Speaker 1: this baking ritual to divine their future husbands. As far
8:58
Speaker 1: as games go, it was more of a spook sleepover game,
9:01
Speaker 1: kind of like Blooding Mary, with the goal of seeing
9:04
Speaker 1: your future husband in your dreams. That's a recurring scene
9:08
Speaker 1: is It's like in your dreams you're going to see
9:09
Speaker 1: this person. The origins of it are hard to pin down,
9:13
Speaker 1: but it was probably first played in or around Scotland,
9:16
Speaker 1: perhaps a riff on eating bread on Shrove Tuesday to
9:19
Speaker 1: see your future spouse. Though again, different versions of this
9:23
Speaker 1: game have existed around the world for pretty much forever,
9:26
Speaker 1: and listeners we would love to hear if you have
9:29
Speaker 1: any experience with any of these, or if you have
9:31
Speaker 1: any history in your country with any of these, please
9:34
Speaker 1: please let us know. The first known written description of
9:38
Speaker 1: this cake appeared in a book on witchcraft by George
9:43
Speaker 1: Sinclair called Satan's Invisible World discovered. Sinclair, a demonologist and mathematician,
9:50
Speaker 1: likened it to a very silly and potentially dangerous superstition.
9:55
Speaker 1: The world discovered that the whole thing all right. So
10:01
Speaker 1: in the early days, they were certainly viewed by Christians
10:04
Speaker 1: as an unsavory remnants of pagan religions that would bring
10:09
Speaker 1: evil down upon any fool to partake in them. You're
10:13
Speaker 1: full any you're one of those now sorry. For instance,
10:22
Speaker 1: take this quote from the seventeen fifties book God's Revenge
10:26
Speaker 1: against the Breakers of the Ten Commandments, that execrable way
10:30
Speaker 1: of making what is termed a dumb cake with a
10:34
Speaker 1: thousand other tricks in order to see or dream of
10:36
Speaker 1: their sweethearts, which are still too much in use among
10:39
Speaker 1: young maidens, in orderfy in order to satisfy their insatiable
10:44
Speaker 1: curiosity and inexcusable impatience. Inexcusable in patience, how dare the
10:53
Speaker 1: take on some switchcraft? I don't I'm really bad at this. Yeah,
10:59
Speaker 1: I thought it is great. I thought it was great.
11:01
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we should put a note in here,
11:03
Speaker 1: like again, it's really easy to make fun of things
11:07
Speaker 1: like this because it sounds silly, But I did the
11:10
Speaker 1: same thing, and especially at this time, your whole future
11:14
Speaker 1: was really as a young girl writing on this future
11:19
Speaker 1: sweetheart or spouse. So it just really really makes sense
11:23
Speaker 1: to me. And I know we've talked about witches and witchcraft,
11:26
Speaker 1: especially women around that, and you know it, violence, It
11:30
Speaker 1: led to violence, and all the suspicion of of what
11:35
Speaker 1: usually just young girls or maybe beliefs that we didn't
11:38
Speaker 1: fit into this very strict idea of Christianity. So it's yeah,
11:42
Speaker 1: just a note, right, this guy, I'm sure it was terrible.
11:47
Speaker 1: It sounds like a real piece of work, a real
11:50
Speaker 1: piece of work he does. No one's too sure where
11:55
Speaker 1: the name came from. Either. Some suspect it comes from
11:58
Speaker 1: an older definition for dumb, meaning silent. Others think it
12:02
Speaker 1: might be derived from the Middle English definition for doom,
12:06
Speaker 1: meaning fate or destiny. But wherever it came from, it
12:11
Speaker 1: was incredibly popular for a couple of centuries in the
12:14
Speaker 1: UK and North America, to the point accounts of it
12:17
Speaker 1: appeared in news stories, folklor anthologies, and even research papers.
12:22
Speaker 1: These accounts paint a general picture of how it went
12:26
Speaker 1: late in the night, maybe around midnight, two or three
12:28
Speaker 1: girls gathered together to bake a cake in complete silence.
12:33
Speaker 1: And side note, I love how many of these games
12:36
Speaker 1: involved complete silence, almost as if the parents created them
12:40
Speaker 1: or something. The ingredients were simple, typically including flour, salt,
12:48
Speaker 1: and water. Each girl then wrote their initials into the cake,
12:52
Speaker 1: and then it was placed into the oven to bake
12:55
Speaker 1: again total silence. Once done, the girls pulled the cake
12:59
Speaker 1: out of the oven and broke it, perhaps each taking
13:01
Speaker 1: a bite. Then they walked backwards to their beds, placing
13:04
Speaker 1: their piece of cake under their pillows and going to
13:07
Speaker 1: sleep so that they could dream of their future husband.
13:11
Speaker 1: So they didn't eat it. They spit it out and
13:13
Speaker 1: put it under their bed. Sometimes I think they took
13:16
Speaker 1: a bite, but there was still a piece left to
13:20
Speaker 1: put under the pillow. Sounds messy. It was a harder
13:23
Speaker 1: cake than what we're used to. It was kind of
13:25
Speaker 1: a tough yeah, all right, just just checking. Yeah, And
13:30
Speaker 1: as you're talking about, yeah, I can't imagine what these
13:33
Speaker 1: processes were like, because if you didn't dream of someone,
13:36
Speaker 1: that means you're doomed. Right, I'm sure that it wasn't
13:42
Speaker 1: a It sounds like, because we're going to get into
13:44
Speaker 1: it in a second. It was kind of scary no
13:48
Speaker 1: matter what. If you saw someone, it was kind of scary.
13:52
Speaker 1: If you didn't see one someone, it was kind of scary.
13:54
Speaker 1: There's a lot of fear around it, which again also
13:56
Speaker 1: makes sense to me if this was something you truly believed.
13:59
Speaker 1: But all so, the Atlas Obscura article I mentioned earlier,
14:05
Speaker 1: the author and a friend attempted this and it was
14:08
Speaker 1: funny because she was like, I dreamed of nothing, not
14:11
Speaker 1: a thing. Well, yeah, so that would be the less
14:16
Speaker 1: frightening outcome, right. So in some versions, the husband was
14:20
Speaker 1: supposed to show up, and here's a quote from an
14:23
Speaker 1: eighteen sixteen description. Man, we have good records on this quote.
14:27
Speaker 1: A few minutes after midnight, the husband of her, who
14:30
Speaker 1: was to be first married, will appear to lay his
14:33
Speaker 1: hand on the part of the cake marked with her name.
14:36
Speaker 1: That does sound a little why are you in my bedroom?
14:41
Speaker 1: Come on? Um? Oh, it's speaking of Sometimes the boyfriends
14:46
Speaker 1: were pretty annoyed at being summoned in some versions of these,
14:50
Speaker 1: as in this article about folklore out of England by
14:54
Speaker 1: Angelina Parker. Quote, an old lady once told me that
14:57
Speaker 1: a girl in this way brought her future husband, who
15:00
Speaker 1: was a soldier, into the room, and in passing through
15:02
Speaker 1: the doorway, he broke his sword in two. The girl
15:05
Speaker 1: picked up the broken piece and kept it after she
15:08
Speaker 1: had been married to him some years. In turning out
15:10
Speaker 1: her trunk, she came across it and showed it to
15:12
Speaker 1: her husband, and he was so angry he could hardly
15:15
Speaker 1: forgive her. He told her he suffered dreadful agonies during
15:19
Speaker 1: the time she forced him to appear, although he did
15:22
Speaker 1: not then know the reason. Mmmmm, Now, way to blame
15:27
Speaker 1: a woman true, true to true these mysterious agonies. It
15:33
Speaker 1: must have been you. That's the only way. M hmmm.
15:39
Speaker 1: That could have been a whole plot point. I'm not
15:41
Speaker 1: sure I've ever seen, like a horror version story of
15:44
Speaker 1: what we think is a romance and then it turns
15:45
Speaker 1: out to be it was very painful for the other
15:48
Speaker 1: person involved or something. I think I've seen some fairy
15:52
Speaker 1: tale versions that are similar, but not quite mm hmmm.
16:10
Speaker 1: In another version of this game, a dark shadow would
16:13
Speaker 1: appear upon the breaking of the bread, chasing the girls,
16:17
Speaker 1: and the only salvation from a mysterious but surely terrifying
16:21
Speaker 1: fate was to dump straight into bed. Again. I love
16:25
Speaker 1: how many of these. I don't know if I'm right,
16:27
Speaker 1: but it just feels like parents trying to get their
16:29
Speaker 1: kids to go to sleep and be quiet. Get into
16:33
Speaker 1: that bed, to straight to bed. Your future husband's gonna
16:37
Speaker 1: come and chase you, terrify you, and um. At least once,
16:43
Speaker 1: making and one of these cakes did lead to disastrous
16:47
Speaker 1: real world consequences. Three girls working at an English estate
16:51
Speaker 1: accidentally made their cake using a poisonous ingredient. That night,
16:55
Speaker 1: they woke members of the estate with their agonized screaming.
16:58
Speaker 1: One actually died um the other two survived, only to
17:02
Speaker 1: be derided in the news as quote too deluded females.
17:07
Speaker 1: But again, as one writer put it in eighty nine,
17:11
Speaker 1: a young maiden will go through a great deal in
17:13
Speaker 1: order to get some kind of answer to a question
17:15
Speaker 1: that so deeply involves her happiness. Here's a description of
17:19
Speaker 1: the whole thing by Charles Dick from nineteen eleven. Quote.
17:23
Speaker 1: The two must go to the larder and jointly get
17:26
Speaker 1: the various ingredients. First they get a bowl, each holding it,
17:30
Speaker 1: and wash and dry it together. Then each gets a
17:33
Speaker 1: spoonful of flour, a spoonful of water and a little salt.
17:37
Speaker 1: When making the cake, they must stin on something they've
17:40
Speaker 1: never stood on before. They must mix it together and
17:43
Speaker 1: roll it. Then they draw a line across the middle
17:46
Speaker 1: of the cake and each girl cuts her initials, each
17:49
Speaker 1: on opposite sides of the line. Then both put it
17:52
Speaker 1: in the oven and bake it. It seems like a
17:54
Speaker 1: really big bonding time. Annie, Should we try this? I
17:57
Speaker 1: think we should. I think we should. The silence will
18:00
Speaker 1: be hard, and if we have to walk backwards anywhere,
18:02
Speaker 1: that I'm done for. Yeah, because if I have to
18:06
Speaker 1: go down some stairs, so no, no, So this is
18:09
Speaker 1: actually the one I believe that the Atlas Obscura article
18:12
Speaker 1: that they used, and my favorite part was them trying
18:15
Speaker 1: to find something to stand on that they've never stood before.
18:20
Speaker 1: Can we get a piece of carpet that we just buy?
18:23
Speaker 1: I'm sure? Okay, I think I could find things in
18:26
Speaker 1: your partment. Yeah. Do I have to go to someone's
18:30
Speaker 1: house I've never been before and never stand in front
18:33
Speaker 1: of that place? I think the friend had an easier
18:36
Speaker 1: time finding something. Oh no, okay, No, that's too much
18:43
Speaker 1: that I gotta put the foot down. Well, if we revisited.
18:47
Speaker 1: I think that could be fun. We'll let you listeners
18:49
Speaker 1: know how it goes if we find out. Yes, yes,
18:54
Speaker 1: But for now, let's talk about bobbing for apples and
18:58
Speaker 1: the related game Snap Apple, which sounds slightly terrifying. I
19:01
Speaker 1: can't wait to talk about it as a summer slash
19:04
Speaker 1: fall fruit especially and here we're talking, we're still talking
19:07
Speaker 1: about mostly European North American traditions. Apples were often involved
19:11
Speaker 1: in early Halloween celebrations and used ensue saying rituals. On
19:16
Speaker 1: top of that, they have a long history of being
19:17
Speaker 1: seen as somewhat magical. I'm sure, like off the top
19:20
Speaker 1: of my head and already think it's so white. There's
19:22
Speaker 1: just a bunch of like eve. There's a lot of
19:24
Speaker 1: imagery around apples. You can go see that as that
19:27
Speaker 1: savor did on apples. We go into that um and
19:29
Speaker 1: why that is a little bit so if you want
19:31
Speaker 1: to learn more. As mentioned earlier, there's the using of
19:35
Speaker 1: the apple peel to ascertain the initial of your future spouse.
19:38
Speaker 1: Another though um was bobbing for apples, a tradition that
19:43
Speaker 1: most likely originated in Europe and perhaps specifically Britain. It
19:47
Speaker 1: started off a bit differently than what we do. Now.
19:49
Speaker 1: Have you ever bought for apples, Samantha, No, Nope. It
19:54
Speaker 1: just didn't seem sanitary. I think i've I mean especially now,
19:57
Speaker 1: I'm like, what were we thinking? Uh? I think I've
20:00
Speaker 1: only done it once and I was so bad. I
20:02
Speaker 1: never got an apple and I hated it. It was
20:05
Speaker 1: pretty miserable to be honest, have a giant well and
20:10
Speaker 1: then also really good teeth, and I do not have
20:13
Speaker 1: either one of them. Well, I do have a big mouth,
20:15
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean. Yeah, I mean now
20:17
Speaker 1: now I have with my front seake juice. I would
20:19
Speaker 1: never ever tip something like this sensitive. I couldn't do it. Yeah,
20:24
Speaker 1: I mean it's hard, it like bounces, it bobs away.
20:28
Speaker 1: But there was never any uh who's your future spouse
20:32
Speaker 1: going to be? Element? When I've thought of it, or
20:34
Speaker 1: that one time that I played it was just can
20:36
Speaker 1: you get the apple? Um? But there did used to be.
20:40
Speaker 1: In one version of this tradition, as it used to
20:44
Speaker 1: go um, girls and women would secretly mark the apples
20:46
Speaker 1: and put them in a barrel of water. Then potential
20:50
Speaker 1: matches would dunk their heads into the water and bite
20:53
Speaker 1: into an apple as a way to look into romantic
20:56
Speaker 1: futures or bring people together. However, in some parts of Scotland,
21:01
Speaker 1: bobbing for apples once and still does listeners please right
21:05
Speaker 1: in if you know share the same name as the
21:07
Speaker 1: practice of dunking women in water to test if they
21:10
Speaker 1: were witches. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, it's also
21:16
Speaker 1: interesting to me. Again, this all makes sense in terms
21:19
Speaker 1: of a game people would play, but it's also kind
21:21
Speaker 1: of like teenagers being shy about asking out somebody. Um,
21:28
Speaker 1: so there's that element as well. On the other hand,
21:32
Speaker 1: there's snap apple. This one is a Halloween tradition also
21:37
Speaker 1: from the British Isles that has roots and paganism. Here's
21:40
Speaker 1: how it went. The goal was to snag an apple
21:43
Speaker 1: in your teeth without using your hands, instead of dunking
21:46
Speaker 1: your head into water. The apple was attached to one
21:49
Speaker 1: end of a stick, while a burning candle was attached
21:53
Speaker 1: to the other end. The stick itself was dangled from
21:56
Speaker 1: a string and then the whole thing was spun around.
21:59
Speaker 1: The player and then tried to get the apple. But
22:02
Speaker 1: failure might mean a candle in your face. Oh, getting
22:08
Speaker 1: the apple first could either mean you're going to be
22:10
Speaker 1: happy in love or that you'd be the first to
22:13
Speaker 1: be married. A similar, related version of this game called
22:17
Speaker 1: for suspending a hoop from the ceiling. The hoop was
22:21
Speaker 1: adorned with various candies, peppers, breads, cakes, and apples. Depending
22:25
Speaker 1: on what food the player got, it foretold the nature
22:27
Speaker 1: of their marriage, like spicy or sweet. I don't like
22:30
Speaker 1: any of those games. There's some risk involved, for sure.
22:35
Speaker 1: I guess I would rather have the ladder than but
22:37
Speaker 1: still yeah yeah um. Well as our friend and co
22:43
Speaker 1: worker Laura and likes to say, they didn't have Netflix
22:45
Speaker 1: back then, So find your own entertainment, I suppose so.
22:52
Speaker 1: One tradition claimed that you would take an apple to
22:54
Speaker 1: the mirror, shine a candle in it, and eat the apple,
22:58
Speaker 1: which would cause your future husband your shoulder to appear.
23:03
Speaker 1: That sounds like a bloody marry game? Are there? In another,
23:06
Speaker 1: you'd cut an apple into nine pieces, and after you've
23:10
Speaker 1: eaten the eight, your lover would appear to ask for
23:13
Speaker 1: the ninth. All of these things are how the hell
23:16
Speaker 1: did you get to my house? Bro? They do sound
23:21
Speaker 1: I mean for someone who watches a lot of horror movies,
23:23
Speaker 1: this doesn't sound romantic. Um. However, like I said, some
23:28
Speaker 1: of them were viewed as something like bloody Mary. It
23:33
Speaker 1: was kind of freaky. But okay, enough about apples, let's
23:37
Speaker 1: talk about nuts. Nuts are also used for seeing into
23:41
Speaker 1: the future to figure out who you were going to marry.
23:43
Speaker 1: In some places, Halloween may have been called nutcrack Night
23:47
Speaker 1: or the Sacrifice of the nuts, because they were used
23:50
Speaker 1: so much in these sort of future attempts at seeing
23:53
Speaker 1: into the future. Women would name the nuts and put
23:57
Speaker 1: them in the fire. If the nuts cooked together and smoothly,
24:01
Speaker 1: that was good for your chances with that person the
24:04
Speaker 1: nut was named after. If the nuts jumped in cracked,
24:09
Speaker 1: not so good, not looking good. Another belief held at
24:12
Speaker 1: this time was that if a man brought a woman
24:15
Speaker 1: walnuts it was true love, which again it feels like
24:18
Speaker 1: if the man knew that, then yeah, it's just like
24:23
Speaker 1: paming you, right right, I did. I mean, with all
24:28
Speaker 1: of these there's a lot of historical distortion of trying
24:31
Speaker 1: to understand what people believed back at this time, and
24:36
Speaker 1: a lot of different accounts. And I did read one
24:39
Speaker 1: where it was actually the opposite, and if the nuts
24:42
Speaker 1: cooked slowly and together, it meant boring times I had
24:46
Speaker 1: for you with that person. But if they jumped and cracked.
24:48
Speaker 1: It's gonna be really exciting and fun. So the bit
24:51
Speaker 1: about like him bringing you nuts, it's kind of a
24:54
Speaker 1: little more of what I had thought of as a kid,
24:57
Speaker 1: like I had two to three spe specific things that
25:01
Speaker 1: my future husband would do for me for me to
25:03
Speaker 1: know that he was the one. And I did have that,
25:07
Speaker 1: and it was very specific. It has not happened. It
25:11
Speaker 1: feels like practical territor. You're right, You're right to think
25:16
Speaker 1: about that. But yeah, as a kid like, these are
25:18
Speaker 1: the things that I know that I love. And if
25:21
Speaker 1: he does these two things, because I had two specific,
25:24
Speaker 1: very specific things, then I know he's the one. Which
25:28
Speaker 1: makes me kind of gagg a little bit, but hey,
25:30
Speaker 1: you whatever, a little bit nauseous on that one. But anyway,
25:34
Speaker 1: so let's talk about a cabbage types of cabbage or
25:39
Speaker 1: once I feel like this is very Korean for some reason,
25:41
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I feel like a lot of
25:43
Speaker 1: Asian food just and it just has all the cabbage.
25:45
Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, since this feels right. So it
25:47
Speaker 1: ties with cabbage were once believed to have Halloween love
25:52
Speaker 1: predicting properties to what a delight I love cabbage, So
25:58
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about these things. But here's a fun
26:01
Speaker 1: vague one. Great women would go into fields pulling up
26:04
Speaker 1: stocks of kill, examining them for things like length, girth, taste,
26:10
Speaker 1: weight to kind of get an idea of what their
26:13
Speaker 1: relationship with their future spouse would be like. So, is
26:18
Speaker 1: it kind of phallic in my victory this right? Am
26:21
Speaker 1: I wrong? Or is it just about the entire relationship?
26:23
Speaker 1: But I just have a dirty mind. It could be
26:25
Speaker 1: either or the It was a lot of like a
26:29
Speaker 1: lot of its word play, right, like if it's long,
26:31
Speaker 1: then the relationship will last long. I say that was
26:34
Speaker 1: completely dirty. So lots of earth clinging to the roots
26:39
Speaker 1: were often interpreted as a substantial dowry. Didn't dowry come
26:44
Speaker 1: from the woman? Yeah, I think, yeah, I think so
26:49
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be the woman's family. Okay, so this
26:52
Speaker 1: is for guys too, then now I think it was
26:54
Speaker 1: like I would assume that would I would at the time,
26:59
Speaker 1: you would, but that as getting married to somebody higher up. Okay,
27:04
Speaker 1: I could ask for a bigger downry. Okay. So if
27:08
Speaker 1: a woman was looking to live a bit more on
27:10
Speaker 1: the wild side, she could steal a cabbage and see
27:13
Speaker 1: who she met on the way home and over in
27:16
Speaker 1: Ireland and Newfoundland, the dish colcannon made of cabbage and potatoes,
27:22
Speaker 1: people would hide a ring and button underneath it, and
27:25
Speaker 1: whoever found the ring was going to get married soon,
27:28
Speaker 1: and the button portended you would never marry. That's so
27:32
Speaker 1: sad can be. Yeah, I guess so, yes, I don't
27:39
Speaker 1: want to be married. That is a really interesting reaction
27:41
Speaker 1: from me because it's supposed to be how it's supposed
27:44
Speaker 1: to be seen. But yes, I'm absolutely personal, like I
27:47
Speaker 1: don't want to be married. That sounds awful. Yeah, well,
27:50
Speaker 1: I mean not to harp on this point too much,
27:53
Speaker 1: but it was. It's still a big deal now, don't
27:55
Speaker 1: get me wrong, but back then it was a much
27:56
Speaker 1: bigger The woman's value wasn't marriage? Absolutely yes, and also
28:02
Speaker 1: as a game, you know, sort of similar to old Maid.
28:05
Speaker 1: And this is still something we have to shape today culturally.
28:10
Speaker 1: But like, there's nothing worse or scarier than being old,
28:13
Speaker 1: unmarried woman. So I can imagine at a party you're
28:17
Speaker 1: on social media being like this is why you're gonna
28:19
Speaker 1: be alone, Like it's the worst thing to put on someone.
28:21
Speaker 1: They're like, okay, cool, it's fine. I'm good. Yeah, I'm
28:26
Speaker 1: gonna thanks. Yeah. Um, And that's just a sampling. There
28:30
Speaker 1: are so many of these and these were Halloween focus.
28:34
Speaker 1: But again, listeners, if you've if you've got some, or
28:37
Speaker 1: if you played some, let us know. We did want
28:52
Speaker 1: to talk briefly about costumes. And we've done several episodes
28:58
Speaker 1: in the past around women's costumes and even the history
29:01
Speaker 1: of Halloween and especially here in America and the commercialization
29:05
Speaker 1: of it and how women were heavily involved in the
29:06
Speaker 1: early days. Um, So this is going to be a
29:08
Speaker 1: much more modern look. Also, thanks again to Jessica who
29:12
Speaker 1: suggested we look into this. So there has been some
29:15
Speaker 1: recent research around gender differences in costumes and why these
29:18
Speaker 1: differences matter. The researchers deck through costumes and this recent
29:23
Speaker 1: research on two online costumes superstore websites, UM sites that
29:27
Speaker 1: have a fairly strict line between men's costumes and women's costumes,
29:32
Speaker 1: saying with boys and girls, some of the findings of
29:35
Speaker 1: this research weren't surprising. Women's costumes are tighter, sexier, and
29:40
Speaker 1: if that wasn't what a woman wanted, there weren't many
29:43
Speaker 1: options outside of that. We've all heard the arguments. I'm
29:48
Speaker 1: sure around, why do women always have to wear sexy costumes?
29:51
Speaker 1: It's slut a weird? Oh no. But if the only
29:55
Speaker 1: options for women are sexy, which shouldn't really be an issue,
29:58
Speaker 1: if that's something the person in question wants to wear,
30:02
Speaker 1: then we're limiting what women can dress as and then
30:04
Speaker 1: judging them for it. In the words of one of
30:07
Speaker 1: the researchers, Aaron Hippel, the issue isn't really that adult
30:10
Speaker 1: women are wearing sexy costumes. Women should be allowed to
30:13
Speaker 1: choose what we wear all year round. The issues that
30:16
Speaker 1: there are limited choices. If one shops on the women's
30:19
Speaker 1: side of the Halloween sales floor, divide, the choices are
30:22
Speaker 1: very limited. Uh yeah, So it sends this message that
30:26
Speaker 1: women and girls should be sexy, that their looks are
30:30
Speaker 1: front and center and should be front and center, and
30:32
Speaker 1: that their bodies are for consumption for the male gaze. Again,
30:37
Speaker 1: if you want to dress sexily, totally should a big
30:41
Speaker 1: believer in that. But it's the issue of options, right um,
30:46
Speaker 1: And and they've got numbers to back this up to.
30:49
Speaker 1: So they found eighty eight percent of women's costumes showed
30:52
Speaker 1: skin compared to sixteen percent of men's. Uh. The number
30:57
Speaker 1: is sixty eight percent for girls compared to one percent
31:00
Speaker 1: of boys. So since for a good chunk of the
31:03
Speaker 1: people who are celebrating Halloween are celebrating it in public,
31:07
Speaker 1: Halloween falls in cooler months. That means options for comfort
31:11
Speaker 1: and warmth are limited unless you're like me and you
31:15
Speaker 1: get a onesie and you're like, nah, I'm good row
31:17
Speaker 1: in my Panda onesie. I have had so many cold Halloween's.
31:22
Speaker 1: I remember there was a cold snap in Atlanta when
31:27
Speaker 1: I was in college, so, you know, many years ago,
31:30
Speaker 1: and just being so cold and uncomfortable and going home
31:32
Speaker 1: because my costume was very skimpy. Right, And on top
31:37
Speaker 1: of that, of women's costumes were tight, even uncomfortably so
31:43
Speaker 1: compared to the twenty eight percent of men's and that's
31:47
Speaker 1: of girls versus five percent four boys. Yes, and I
31:52
Speaker 1: had a friend that almost passed out once from her
31:53
Speaker 1: tight Harley Quinn outfit. So you can get really uncomfortably tight. Yeah,
32:00
Speaker 1: for those that are just like pre manufactured obviously very
32:04
Speaker 1: cheaply made costumes is typically the worst material size, like
32:09
Speaker 1: for young prepubescent girls. And the fact that's thin see
32:14
Speaker 1: through not necessarily on purpose, it's just the main of
32:16
Speaker 1: the way it is. I was like, this is the
32:18
Speaker 1: worst combination of costuming, or they're ridiculously expensive, and I'm like,
32:23
Speaker 1: I'm not spending a hundred fifty on that antique, right, well, yeah,
32:29
Speaker 1: I mean that's another good point is if comfort isn't
32:34
Speaker 1: clearly is in a priority for women's costumes, and it's
32:37
Speaker 1: again kind of sending this message that it's not about
32:40
Speaker 1: you and it's about how you look and how other
32:44
Speaker 1: people see you, right so um and interviews, the researchers
32:49
Speaker 1: described how they would have to go through several pages
32:52
Speaker 1: of women's costumes before finding one that wasn't sexualized, where
32:57
Speaker 1: as for men, their very first option wasn't nice. This
33:01
Speaker 1: finding put out numbers that demonstrate just how big this
33:04
Speaker 1: gender gap is. And I was just thinking about this too,
33:08
Speaker 1: like if you think about even historical levels of costumes,
33:12
Speaker 1: they're all made sexy, and you're like, that was that's
33:15
Speaker 1: not what it was, and you kind of had this
33:17
Speaker 1: moment of trying to figure out why something that it's
33:19
Speaker 1: already nice as begun even beyond and then we won't
33:23
Speaker 1: talk about the cultural appropriation that happens within these costumes,
33:29
Speaker 1: but how they're also sexualized I was thinking about there
33:32
Speaker 1: was just a recent argument on TikTok because I'm now
33:35
Speaker 1: officially on TikTok all the time and I need to
33:37
Speaker 1: ban myself from it. But whatever, the whole idea of
33:40
Speaker 1: why people are arguing with other people about why can't
33:42
Speaker 1: I dressed up as Pocahuntas, why can't I dressed up
33:45
Speaker 1: as Mulan and being there to be like, it's not
33:49
Speaker 1: the point that you may have really liked these what
33:52
Speaker 1: you know of as Disney characters, but the appropriation of
33:56
Speaker 1: what you're doing and what you're trying to do, especially
33:58
Speaker 1: when we talk about indigenous community, Hey watch it. And
34:01
Speaker 1: then especially the overly sexualized tones of these costumes and
34:06
Speaker 1: what you're doing it for. It's not because you're doing
34:08
Speaker 1: it because you appreciate these individuals and you see them
34:11
Speaker 1: as iconic. You're doing them because you'll be in a
34:12
Speaker 1: sexy version of something that is known, and that's disgusting
34:15
Speaker 1: mm hmm on so many levels. Yeah. Yeah, And it's
34:21
Speaker 1: it's interesting how it's such a big accepted kind of
34:25
Speaker 1: thing about like women's costumes won't be sexy that I
34:27
Speaker 1: think that Just the other day I heard like three
34:29
Speaker 1: or four jokes about it, you know, sexy crayons or
34:32
Speaker 1: sexy just like random object and it's sexy, right, Yeah,
34:38
Speaker 1: And I know I've heard, and I suppose there could
34:42
Speaker 1: also be an argument that this is one of the
34:44
Speaker 1: only times of year women feel it's acceptable to dress
34:47
Speaker 1: as sexy as their heart desires, which is also a problem.
34:51
Speaker 1: Most likely all these things are going on at once.
34:54
Speaker 1: I remember one year I addressed in acute what I
34:56
Speaker 1: was like modest outfit and went around telling everyone I
34:59
Speaker 1: was heard of having sexy costumes, only sexy costume options.
35:03
Speaker 1: I just remember being at this party and be like,
35:06
Speaker 1: already kind of going off. Um, so I'm a proponent
35:12
Speaker 1: of being really silly, and that's kind of one of
35:15
Speaker 1: the things that I try to do for Halloween. And
35:19
Speaker 1: there have been some moments of like me trying to
35:21
Speaker 1: be sexy did not pull off really well, and I
35:24
Speaker 1: was like, I don't feel comfortable and feeling like something
35:27
Speaker 1: that I am not on the constant basis, and that
35:30
Speaker 1: again the bigger conversation of being sexualized fetishized, as well
35:34
Speaker 1: as just not having confidence. So it's all a kind
35:36
Speaker 1: of a layered bunch. Um. But a few times that
35:39
Speaker 1: I have I'm like, this is really bad. So one
35:42
Speaker 1: of the costumes that I did because as an Asian
35:45
Speaker 1: person in a white community, I always felt like I
35:48
Speaker 1: couldn't dress as anything and be that, Like I couldn't
35:51
Speaker 1: be the Asian version of something like that just felt wrong.
35:54
Speaker 1: It felt weird, And I will say that because it
35:57
Speaker 1: felt like I was trying to put myself in the
35:58
Speaker 1: hierarchy trying to be white. Not because I didn't want
36:02
Speaker 1: to be one of the white people. It was because
36:03
Speaker 1: I was ashamed for not being white, so I couldn't
36:05
Speaker 1: possibly be accepted as white. So that's again a different conversation.
36:10
Speaker 1: So I dressed up as a Geisha as being an
36:13
Speaker 1: Asian part of like, oh, this is one thing that
36:14
Speaker 1: I can be that can be kind of sexy, and
36:16
Speaker 1: then coming back to realize, holy, I'm finning into that
36:19
Speaker 1: same narrative of sexualizing and fetish sizing women with this
36:22
Speaker 1: whole moment of the memoirs of Geisha coming out and
36:25
Speaker 1: be like, this was written by a white man. Do
36:28
Speaker 1: we really want to go into all of this? You know,
36:30
Speaker 1: like this is all of those things. But coming back
36:32
Speaker 1: to realizing even though it is kind of more accepted
36:36
Speaker 1: because I am at least an Asian woman doing it.
36:38
Speaker 1: I had two white friends do it with me, by
36:40
Speaker 1: the way, whole big the conversation, and that that wasn't
36:43
Speaker 1: their fault. It was my idea, I will say to that,
36:46
Speaker 1: but it was problematic then and problematic now me going
36:50
Speaker 1: back to looking at it and being like, oh, yeah, okay,
36:53
Speaker 1: I did bad and even though I am Asian, this
36:57
Speaker 1: was bad on me as well. And that bigger narrative
36:59
Speaker 1: of why do I feel like the only things that
37:02
Speaker 1: are sexy are fantasization of what men think of Asian women,
37:07
Speaker 1: which is what it can be dangerous for Asian women.
37:10
Speaker 1: I think there's such a bigger narrative of this conversation
37:14
Speaker 1: that's okay to be sexy, be the sexy crayon if
37:17
Speaker 1: you want to and you feel a thin about it,
37:18
Speaker 1: go ahead, you're sexyself in that, but have an understanding that, yes,
37:23
Speaker 1: there is a lot of backlash, and that's the bigger
37:26
Speaker 1: conversation of what it is, especially for women once again,
37:29
Speaker 1: to sometimes feed into the stereotype that can be really harmful.
37:33
Speaker 1: Or if you're a white person, be like, but I
37:36
Speaker 1: want to be a squid games person, Please don't do
37:39
Speaker 1: the eyes. Please don't do that. Don't be racist. That
37:42
Speaker 1: is racist. That is not good. Yeah, no, no, no,
37:47
Speaker 1: no no. Um and we have I mean for something
37:50
Speaker 1: that feels on its surface level very frivolous. There are
37:53
Speaker 1: so many aspects to this. And We've talked about a
37:55
Speaker 1: fore you before, and I've talked about how sometimes I
37:58
Speaker 1: feel really um self conscious when I do like my
38:03
Speaker 1: winners sold you outfit, which I don't think is very sexy,
38:05
Speaker 1: but it's slightly sexy, and kids see that and it's like,
38:09
Speaker 1: you know, I like it and I feel good in it,
38:12
Speaker 1: but I know that kids are observing that nerve, observing
38:14
Speaker 1: how men might treat me in that, and then that's
38:17
Speaker 1: it makes me feel weird, that strange. But that's again
38:20
Speaker 1: the conversation of like, why are we not putting the
38:22
Speaker 1: responsibility on men? Yes, absolutely, m hmm. Right. It shouldn't. Again,
38:28
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be like, oh, I'm this object for you
38:31
Speaker 1: to just treat however you want to treat. But it
38:35
Speaker 1: does turn into that, and I hate when kids see
38:37
Speaker 1: it because it's just like, I don't want to contribute
38:40
Speaker 1: rise and you're right, and it becomes that that's the
38:45
Speaker 1: lesson of the story, not the other way. Other problem
38:48
Speaker 1: of the fact that you have been taught as a
38:50
Speaker 1: child and or the parent has been teaching the child.
38:53
Speaker 1: I'll see the girl, don't do that because she's the problem.
38:56
Speaker 1: And that's not that's not the truth and this at all.
38:59
Speaker 1: And of course, and I know I'm preaching to the
39:01
Speaker 1: choir when we talk about all of this, but this
39:03
Speaker 1: against same like stripped down of the fact that if
39:07
Speaker 1: done appropriately, everything has to be in that caveat. If
39:11
Speaker 1: done appropriately and you feel sexy and you feel good
39:15
Speaker 1: about it, been wonderful, let's talk about the fact that
39:19
Speaker 1: that is not an open invitation for us to be
39:24
Speaker 1: if you want to look from afar and appreciate, because
39:27
Speaker 1: sure maybe they put some time in that oftfit and
39:30
Speaker 1: do want compliments. Okay, if they don't, if they're uncomfortable
39:33
Speaker 1: by you, then don't ye yep, never touch, always ask
39:39
Speaker 1: for you take a picture anyway, Yes, yes, And I
39:45
Speaker 1: was also thinking, I guess there's an argument that in
39:47
Speaker 1: our entertainment a lot of women's costumes are more sexualized
39:51
Speaker 1: their costuming in general. And if how oween costumes are
39:53
Speaker 1: at least in part based on entertainment, then it filters
39:57
Speaker 1: into that too. That doesn't explain things like sex the
40:00
Speaker 1: burning costume, but it does explain a lot of that's
40:03
Speaker 1: sexy Bernie mean costume I saw the other day. Yeah,
40:06
Speaker 1: I just saw a sexy ted lasso costume and I
40:10
Speaker 1: didn't know I had. I had a moment of huh see, yeah,
40:14
Speaker 1: I guess my thing would be, is there a non
40:16
Speaker 1: sexy women's ted lassume? I've seen a few, Yes, because
40:21
Speaker 1: playing just straight right? But could you bug the store?
40:25
Speaker 1: So the sexy I will say, the sexy ted lasso
40:29
Speaker 1: she made on her own. Good. I'm awesome. But I
40:33
Speaker 1: don't know why that It doesn't enter my head to
40:36
Speaker 1: do things. I was like, yeah, that's pretty good. Like
40:39
Speaker 1: that's all I could think saw in people's minds, that's
40:42
Speaker 1: for sure. Um So, going back to this research, these
40:46
Speaker 1: are not the only findings they had. They also discovered
40:49
Speaker 1: women and girls costumes rarely come with masks. One and
40:52
Speaker 1: four percent of women's and girls, respectively come with masks,
40:55
Speaker 1: compared to forty six percent of men's and boys. Why
41:00
Speaker 1: I Researcher Laurie Hires speculates, we found that girls and
41:03
Speaker 1: women's costumes provided less coverage and accentuated the wear's own
41:07
Speaker 1: physical attractiveness as the character herself rather than her costume character,
41:12
Speaker 1: so that she became the featured subject. It seems that
41:14
Speaker 1: girls costumes had to fulfill demands for feminine ornamental display.
41:19
Speaker 1: She must not simply be a princess. She must display
41:22
Speaker 1: herself as pretty in her princess costume. On the other hand,
41:26
Speaker 1: costumes were boys and men put the alternate identity and
41:30
Speaker 1: character at the forefront. Hires went on. Costumes marketed to
41:33
Speaker 1: girls and women consistently promised that she will look cute, sexy, pretty,
41:37
Speaker 1: and all eyes will be on her, whereas costumes marketed
41:40
Speaker 1: towards boys typically promised that they will be strong and
41:43
Speaker 1: tough or scary and gross. And then yeah, I've I
41:46
Speaker 1: read another interesting article about this. I wasn't sure how
41:51
Speaker 1: much of way to put in it, but they were saying, like,
41:53
Speaker 1: you know, the original intense of Halloween, which we are
41:55
Speaker 1: way off of what it was originally, was that you
41:58
Speaker 1: were supposed to hide your face and hide your identity,
42:01
Speaker 1: and that was the costume so that you know, ghost
42:04
Speaker 1: or spirits can find you. Um, I do think that's interesting,
42:07
Speaker 1: and I mean it's just hard to me to make
42:10
Speaker 1: that argument in our modern times when we've just gone
42:13
Speaker 1: so far away from that. But that is an interesting
42:16
Speaker 1: point when it comes to these boys costumes having so
42:20
Speaker 1: much more coverage and mask whereas women's and girls generally don't. Right.
42:25
Speaker 1: I will say one of my favorite costumes that I
42:27
Speaker 1: did was the Grudge Ghost, and I just followed people
42:32
Speaker 1: around making the noise freaky, and I stay in character,
42:39
Speaker 1: so I'm super annoying. Oh I'm sure you know, like
42:43
Speaker 1: an hour in that noise is no longer scary. It's
42:46
Speaker 1: just well, no, I still did enough that is freak
42:50
Speaker 1: people out, and I'll be like, I appreciate your dedication
42:58
Speaker 1: than Another study found that costumes of strong feminist historical
43:03
Speaker 1: icons are lacking when it comes to costume stores, which
43:07
Speaker 1: is why you'll find article after article instructing women and
43:11
Speaker 1: young girls how to d I y them. I definitely
43:14
Speaker 1: saw plenty of like Rosie the Reveter and of course
43:18
Speaker 1: RBG with the necklace and all of that. I've seen
43:22
Speaker 1: so many of that, But I have also seen amazing
43:24
Speaker 1: d I y like these parents are doing for their
43:27
Speaker 1: young kids. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. I
43:30
Speaker 1: knew that costume. I would say that was probably when
43:33
Speaker 1: I was researching this. That was a good chunk of
43:36
Speaker 1: the articles on the early Google pages where you know,
43:39
Speaker 1: like I don't want your young girl to wear a
43:42
Speaker 1: sexy costume. Here's eight costume ideas of famous historical female
43:47
Speaker 1: figures and how to make them, which is another argument
43:51
Speaker 1: that we could make. It has been made. It's that
43:54
Speaker 1: that's better for the environments. Right. So yeah, there's a
43:58
Speaker 1: lot going on this conversation, a lot more than you
44:01
Speaker 1: thought Annie. Um. Well, listeners, we would love to know
44:04
Speaker 1: if you've got any cool costumes you would like to share. Please,
44:08
Speaker 1: please please let us know, um, whether you're celebrating or not.
44:11
Speaker 1: We hope you have a lovely, safe weekend. And yes,
44:15
Speaker 1: if you would like to email us that you can,
44:17
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Our email is
44:18
Speaker 1: Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You
44:21
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or
44:23
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff I Never Sold You. Thanks. It's
44:25
Speaker 1: always to our super producer, Christina Appy Halloween scene, Yes,
44:30
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Ever Told
44:33
Speaker 1: you his production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast
44:34
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44:37
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