Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #175: Bowhunting Legend Barry Wensel’s Tactics For Hunting Mature Bucks

Transcript

Wired To Hunt Podcast #175: Bowhunting Legend Barry Wensel’s Tactics For Hunting Mature Bucks · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number one and tay
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the show. We're joined by a living legend, Mr Barry Wenzel,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and Barry's diving deep with us today into his tactics
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and philosophies for box hunting mature bucks. Welcome to the
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sitko Gear
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: and today in the show, we are joined by a
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: man who has been widely requested by our listeners. We've
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: we've put out a number of different surveys over the
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: years asking you know, who do you want to hear from?
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: And this man and his brother have been top of
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the charts for a long time, so this is a
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: long time coming, um. But this guy is is honestly
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: one of the most legendary figures in the white tail
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: hunting community. His brother and him have authored a number
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: a very influential deer hunting books. They produced videos such
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: as bow Hunting October white Tails that for a lot
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: of people have just completely changed the game. When those
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: videos came out and this guy I'm talking of is
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Barry Wenzel. He's an avid traditional bow hunter living in
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the great state of Iowa these days, and he is
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: a self proclaimed white tail fanatics. So today this I
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: think this one is gonna gonna be a lot of fun.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: There's a lot to cover. Um, he has a lifetime
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: of stories and experiences and lessons learned to share, and
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: from what I've seen and gathered, just an absolute ton
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: of big bucks that he can point to to back
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: his tactics up. So I guess I'm trying to say,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: as I'm excited, um, and I want to get right
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: to the good stuff. But as we do on each episode,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you to bear with me a little
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: bit for a little pregame show here. I feel like
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: that's kind of I feel like that's kind of a
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: way to describe this right down our pregame show, all right,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know, just like just like game day is
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: to the college football day, are our first ten minutes
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes is just like a a warm up session.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So we really don't blow it with the guest exactly. Okay,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: So if this is college game Day of our four
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: college game Day host who would you be and who
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: would I be? I'm definitely Lea Corse. I was just
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: gonna say, you're definitely Course, that's exactly what. And then
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: you're the guy You're not You're not Herb Street, you're
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the other guy. Um runs the show. But Chris Fowler
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: just vanilla. Yeah, fair enough. I keep the show on
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the tracks, and and you're someone's got to run it
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: and I'm the guy who just derails it or or
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you start laughing when you know every time you say
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: something right, every time I say something, you know it's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: gonna be horrible. It's gonna come out wrong. Yep, that's
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: about right. So right, we've we've got our our characters
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: say here. I wanted to do a couple of things
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: here quick before we get bury on UM so fast.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: What I'm trying to say, of course, so is uh.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I want to hear about your weekend because I think
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: there's more good news right and UM. I also want
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: to do what we talked about very briefly last week,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: which was give a real quick rundown on c w
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: D again, UM, because I went to this event. I
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: want to just you know, layout the facts again because
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: there's so much misinformation out there. But but yeah, good news, right,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: you got to hunt again last weekend, am I right? Well,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a mixed bag, right, good news,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: bad news type scenario. The bad news is, before I
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: went out to my hunt, right, I dropped the kids
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: off at my mom ms. I went out, I was
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: gonna check some trail cameras real quick. They're really easy
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: to access ones. And sure enough, three of the four
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: that I checked had been stolen. Yep. So I you know,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I drove around to some of the houses. I ended
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: up knocking on some doors, spread the word about how
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: they've been stolen, this and that, um, and then you know,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: there's almost a whole another story that can go with
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: behind there. I mean, I'm already in the process of
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: communicating with other landowners who sent me pictures of someone
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: they got busted on trail camera. I called the sheriff
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I provided those pictures. Um, and they think they have
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: a suspect. Now, who is who has been You know,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: he's that kind of guy who goes out and steals
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: trail cameras. Basically, um, not a good rap, but um
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: could be the guy. Couldn't be the guy you know
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: who knows. Um, there's an investor. There's an investigation that's
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: going on right now. Uh, which you know obviously when
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: you realize your trail cameras are stolen, I don't, and
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know about you. I'm the kind of guy
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: who I'm not necessarily pissed that my cameras are stolen.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I'm pissed that they didn't leave the SD card behind.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: That that's information that you can't get back. I was.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I had a couple of years ago, we had um
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: at our Ohio property. I'm sure I told her this
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: one happened, but we had a situation where they didn't
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: take the camera, but they just took the SD cards
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: and that made me more mad. I was more mad
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: they did that than anything, absolutely, And I think I
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: mentioned to you. So after that, all that crap was,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: it was time to go get in the woods. And
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: if anybody who lived in this area of Iowa knew,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: it was like super windy and this front was you know,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: right when prime time hit, this front was gonna be
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: already passed, right, So the deer had been beaten up
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: all day by wind and rain. Um for like the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: past I'm uh, probably thirty six hours. You know, uh,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: just you know, really bad weather, really high winds, and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: in the past I've noticed that they tend to get
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: up off their feet early if they've been exposed to
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: that conditions. In this perfect scenario, you're saying just after
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: it passes, just after it passes, if it correlates with
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: an evening hunt. Right. So I was in the tree
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: at about four after I got set up, and about well,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: i'd say about five thirty is when it ended. But
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: the deer were already on their feet. Man Um I
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: ran into six does this was and this was the
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: first time I ever hunted this property, right, this was
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: a fresh set run and gun um. I set up
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: in between um a betting area in a staging area
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: and and there's a very small travel corridor in between
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: the two. And it was on a ridge that led
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: in this. This whole flow of this property kind of
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: led to a cornfield on one part and then uh
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: a corn field on one part and then a clover
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: field on this other part. Those were the food sources.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Of course, there's acorns all over. But I got in,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I set up, and man, the deer just started moving.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I mean I saw like ten does I saw three
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: bucks over one around that one uh one mark one
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: two or two year olds a couple or one was
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: like one five ish. That guy on thirty he was
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: literally licking the tree that I set up in because
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I was I, you know that nose jammer stuff talk
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: about I sprayed sprayed that on the base of my
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: tree while I set up and he's sniffing it and
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: licking it and it's just crazy, right, So he's like,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: he's like this three year old. And then a couple
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: of button bucks come by, a couple of four corns,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: you know. And then about thirty minutes left, I catch
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: something out of the corner of my eye in this
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: staging area, real thick stage area before they go out
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to the crop fields. And there must have been a
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: buck betted in that because I see this big body
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: kind of dropped down behind the tree. I get my
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: bionos on. I can tell it's a big body, and
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I could tell the rack is okay, but it happened
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: so fast I really couldn't tell. And this buck drops
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: down into the creek. Um must have got you know,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I want to go get a drink of water or something,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: and sure enough about I'm gonna say, thirty minutes before sundown,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: this buck pops back up out of the creek and
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: starts making a scrape and rubbing these tree branches, and
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I get my bionos on it. It's like this really,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: really nice four year old probably about one fifty class
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: ten pointer. His his left G two was split, and
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, yes, you know, like pumped up, and
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: he's aggressive, right. His body language is showing. His body
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: language is showing that he's, you know, marking some territory.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: In the past, these types of things worked out, And
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: so I grunted one time just bra he didn't hear me,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and then another I did it one more time, you know,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: a real long, you know, longer grunt, and he stopped
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: and he turned around and he just like his front
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: end stayed the same, but his the only thing that
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: moved with his back two legs, and you know how
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: they swing around, they kind of stop and look and stare,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and he's just like he's looking in my area. And
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: then he kind of took these side steps and then
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: he was in the thick stuff and I was he
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: was out of my line of sight, and then about
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: two or three minutes later I lost him and then
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: he he shows up and he's probably about seventy six
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: seventy yards and he looks like he's walking right towards me,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, are you kidding me? Is just gonna work,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: you know already, and he's coming right at me. And
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: then I lose him again and I'm sitting there, bow
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: in hand. I'm ready getting ready to you know, like
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: if he pops up strong back, it's and darker, it's
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: getting darker, it's getting darker, and then nothing, so he
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: must have scooted out around me. I know we didn't
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: catch my wind or my scent um because that was
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: blown in a completely different direction. So at least I
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: know that there's a you know, a decent buck in
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: this on this new property. So I'm excited for that.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: That's an awesome set. Wow, that is exciting to have
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: that level of pump this earlier in the season, have
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: a good encounter like that. Absolutely, And the best part
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: about this whole thing is is a game plan worked
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: based off of historic data. And when I mean historic data,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: like when the weather is doing this, you should be
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: in a tree stand, uh, and you put that into
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: you you um, you put that together with your scouting
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: of what you have and what wind direction and what
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: your terrain offers, you knowing where you think the deer
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: betting and where the food sources is, the transition areas
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And and I put the game
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: playing together. I thought it was gonna work, and it worked,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and um, I just have to, you know, as the
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: season goes on, I start to learn this property a
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: little bit more and hunt this property. I'm gonna be
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: able to do my tweaks, move my stand locations, and
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: hopefully uh intercept one. And I know that's not the
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: only I have a gut feeling that there's other big
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: deer in this area. So um, you know, just play
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: my cards right and make my microadjustments throughout the season
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: and hopefully I run into something or were cross paths with,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: you know, a target animal. It's a good start. Yeah, buddy,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: that's awesome. Well, Um, so I hunted opening night. We
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: talked about that last week, and then after that Thursday,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I headed up north to our northern Michigan property and
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I hunted Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday up there and between.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: So I've had five hunts so far in Michigan and
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I've yet to see us angle buck, so that's uh,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: you know, but they're on trail camera right well not so.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: And on my southern Michigan properties there's one mature buck
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I've gotten on trail camera since the summer, one single
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: mature buck, which is holy Field. And then on our
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: northern Michigan property where we've been running cameras since this summer,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: since July, when we put these cameras out up through now,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: there was one single picture of a buck one time,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: one single picture a year and a half fur corn
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: and that is it? What about does lots and lots
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: of does? That is it? So? Um? Didn't you have
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: like earlier in this this summer some or was that
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: last year where you had some pick Okay, you had
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: some pictures of some promised promising last year, for the
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: first time ever up there, we had two or three
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: different bucks that would probably be mature bucks, that were
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: mature bucks. That was the first time I've ever had that.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: This year, I had these really high hopes because we've
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: been working on trying to improve it up there. We
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: had some better food plots than this year. As far
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: as I know, it's been untouched, you know since the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: summer mostly other than you know, some other people that
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: live nearby. Um, So I was thinking, all for sure,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: there's gonna there's gotta be a decent buck that's visiting
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: this area on occasion at least. Um but nothing. So
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: that was disappointing. And you know, I hunted and same
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: kind of thing just saw does. I saw a handful
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: of doughs every night, but um, nothing to get too
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: excited about. Um But I got a little bit of
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: a cold front hitting tomorrow. Uh, so I'm gonna go
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: dive into one of these pieces of public land I've
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: been scouting down here, and it's gonna be windy, relatively windy,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and it's gonna be like a huge rainy day coming in.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: That rain's gonna taper off by like four or five
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: in the evening. So I'm gonna sneak in there just
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: at the end of that rain and get set up
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: where I found one of these buckbeds the spring, went
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: out scouting, and I think there's a ridge with a
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: bunch of acorns on it, and this swampy, this little
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: island out in a swamp where I found these beds.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: So my hypothesis is that there's a buck or bucks
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: bedded out in this island, and then this little strip
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: of high ground that connects this island back to this
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: ridge system where all these oaks are. I gotta believe
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: cold fronts dropping like thirteen degrees from the highs today
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: to tomorrow, and the rain winds gonna allow me to
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: get in there quietly, gonna hanging hunt just down winto
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: that little strip, this little bridge almost that connects to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: the high ground, and who knows, it could be a
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: good hunt. I'll tell you what that weather is in
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Iowa right now? Yeah, uh so. I mean it's raining
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: outside right now. The temperature is like I think yesterday
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the highwa was six seventy degrees. Now it's forty six
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: degrees right now. Nice. So it is cold and crappy outside.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And if I could, man, I would be out in
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: a tree stand. I don't know if that's gonna be tonight,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: but tomorrow evening if I could. Unfortunately can't, but I
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: would be in a tree staying tomorrow evening. First. Sure,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Oh man, that sounds awesome. We don't have quite that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: cool of temperatures are Our highs are still gonna be
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: like fifty nine, but that's that's a lot better than
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: the seventy three it is today, So we're gonna take it. Um.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm excited to give that a shot. And
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: then otherwise it's just hot temperatures from here on out
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: other than that, So just gonna take it easy on
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: my good stuff and just keep plunking away at some
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: of this public Maybe shoot a dough somewhere and keep
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: tabs on all Holy Field hopefully. So yeah, that's what
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I need to do, is get a dough down. Well, shoot, man,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: we're suppos to talk to c w D, but we
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: still I worry we'll run that time here because I
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: want to get burried on. We need to do next
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: week we should do just me and you. Yeah, if
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: that's possible. Yeah, we should do a just uming me
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: podcast because there's lots to talk about. You know, we're breeze.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: We're breathing through our own Hunt related stuff pretty quickly here. Um,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: so I'm gonna w D is important to talk about.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: It is important, So we're gonna do this is a
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: two week hype up to the c w D conversation. Um,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: so next week we will talk about Um, we'll cover
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: some CWD related things. We'll talk about some other stuff, um,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: but today we got Barry. Weinslon we should probably not
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: beat around the bush, right right. We don't want to
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: make that guy. Wait, no, we shouldn't do that. So
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: anything quick on your end in before we get to it.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Let's roll. All right, let's do it. Let's pause for
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: our sick story, and then we'll bring Barry on the line.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: For this week's story, we're joined by sitcom Ambassador Alex Templeton,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: who tells us about some exciting white tail action from
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: early November. I had been hid consistently all season long
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and Missouri with no luck, and at the end of
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Octember I had the opportunity to go to Illinois, which
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: came at a good time because the weather at home
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: was really warm and the deer weren't moving at all.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: So after hunting a week in Illinois, coming home and
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: the handed, I was very determined to kill a deer
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: with my bow before rifle season opened up in Missouri,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: which is on November fifteenth every year UM. At this
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: point in the beginning of November UM and the weather
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: can be hit with it this time of the year
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: as well, and this is when the rut is starting
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: to kick off at the beginning of November, so I
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: had pretty high hopes for good Dear movement. And after
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: a couple long days and nights sitting on an evening
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: time on my favorite farm, I had a clean eight
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: come by and we offered me a perfect broadside shot
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: and I absolutely smoked him. And I was starting going
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: to go down with about six yards away from my stand,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: and I was super excited and pretty proud of myself.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: On Alex's hunt, she was wearing sick is elevated to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: pattern in the women's line. If you'd like to create
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: a sick of story of your own, or to learn
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: more about Sitka's technical hunting apparel, visit sitka gear dot com.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: All right with us now on the line is Barry one.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Still thank you Barry for joining us. We appreciate it,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: my pleasure. I always like to talk to your hunting Yeah,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: did though, that's kind of what brings us all here
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: together today. So you know, I think that you are
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: a guy within our little world of the white tail
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: hunting community that doesn't really need an introduction. Um, you've
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: been one of the most influential people over the decades,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: but I suppose for those maybe that that don't maybe
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: for some people that are new to the hunting world
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: or for whatever reason, haven't heard about what you and
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: your brother have been up to. Could you just kind
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: of tell us a little bit of your story, your background.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: You know, how you got to be where you are
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and how you got to be who you are today.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: What's what's the Barry Wenzel's story? Okay? Um? Where to start? Actually? Um?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: And when I say our I'm talking my brother Jean
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: and myself are identical twins. Um, we've been doing this
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: for our whole lives. Our dad was avid hunter, but
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: kind of two season hunter, I mean hunter with a
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: bow and a bow season and gun with the gun season.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: But we were the only two kids, so consequently, Jane
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: and I being twins, I would we were born with
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: hany partners, so to speak. And if the truth were known,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I think Dad probably put bows and arrows in our hands,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: thinking that we would get in less trouble than if
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: we you know, we're on around with baby guns and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: twenty two, which we ended up doing some of that too,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: but we really got into the bows and arrows and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: just never put our toys away type of thing and
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: being brothers, it was kind of a whatever you want
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: to say, it's a team. But then it was also
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a little bit of competitive. I mean it was, I
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: mean nothing serious, just you know, uh, you know, my
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: bucks bigger than your buck or whatever, and yeah, well
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: yours just typical minds, non typical whatever that type of thing,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: you know. But we were actually born in Pennsylvania and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: then uh, my dad's job, he was transferred around quite
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: a bit, and we ended up living in New York
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: and Connecticut in Vermont and then we went to school
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: in Indiana, and then we ended up moving to Montana,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: both of it, Gene and I both He lived in
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the bitter Ut Valley. I lived in a Flathead Valley
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: by Glacier National Park hundred and fifty miles apart. And
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: we lived in Montana for thirty almost thirty years and then,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: which was great because we moved there specifically for the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: hunting and we had like where I lived, we had
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: ten species of big game, some of you had to
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: draw permits for, but we had ten species a big
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: game that I could bow hunt. And this was back
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: in the seventies and eighties and nineties, and um as
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I said, we hunted for decades. It's almost embarrassing people,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: you know, I think it's not fair when I tell
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: them stuff like this, But um, it's just everything life
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: is often in the timing, and our timing was perfect,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: meaning that we we hunted for decades and never even
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: saw another bow hunter. I mean, you know, there was
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: just and it was a lot of national for US
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Force Service land open hunting. The valleys had private land.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: But because people in fact, they used to joke, you know,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, we'd go up in aspiration, knock on the
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: door like anybody else, and and you know, people actually
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: admitted later that they gave us permission because they never
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: thought would actually get anything, you know. So but anyway
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: we did that. We lived in Montana for thirty years
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: and ten species, but we spent nine of our time
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: for so wing trophy white tails, and you know, because
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: the western Montana has good genetics and some giant white tails.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: So even though we had I mean I used to
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: go in the early season, or the Montana seasons used
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to open in September, and in September, you know, I
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: never deer hunted because when the season opened, a lot
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: of the white tails still were in velvet, but we
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: we go bear hunting, would go el hunting, go to
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: antelop hunting, and go muley hunting or whatever, and until October,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: and then Jean and I both took our quote vacations.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Would we would take a two week vacation the first
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: two weeks in October, which happens to be the last
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: two weeks of the archery season. And then you were
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: also in Montana allowed to bow hunt during the guns season,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: so we and we never gun hunted, you know. At
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: also we we would be able to continue through the
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: late season. So basically we could both hunt from September
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: one until I think it was like January tens or
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: something like that in the late seasons, and there were
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of archery only areas where we could get
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: away from the gun hunters. And then as I said,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: big country the logging industry where we could get away,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: get way back into big timber and not have any
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: competition whatsoever type of you know. So you're and that's
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: one of the big secrets, being able to hunt non
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: disturbed animals. And as I said that, we we uh,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: we did that for years and after the kids got
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: all grown and gone, um, you know, I said it
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: was my idea. First, I said to my brother, you know,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I really we were actually we were coming back to Iowa. Um.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I put in for what was it, four or five
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: years in a row, and you had to apply for
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: a non resident tag and I never drew and I said,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I'll fix you all this movie here. So anyway, that
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: came in Iowa, and you know that was in and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: in fact, my wife blessed her heart. I mean, I
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: got a good one. Um. When we moved to Iowa,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: she had never even been set foot in the state.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I just said, hey, we're going. Um, you know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: if you want to stay married, you're coming to You know,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: if I said that today, I'd probably end up with
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: a broken jaw, right right. But yeah, you just have
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: to overpower them, you know. Damn it sounds like you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: got some learning. Anyway, we moved to Iowa in ninety nine,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: and uh, in fact, that was we started off with
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: kind of a tragedy because we sold our house in Montana.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I rented two commercial storage units, put everything I own
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: in in two units, and then I rented the biggest
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: truck U Haul made and I pulled the trailer behind
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: it and I took the first storage unit to Iowa
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: with intentions to going back and get the second one.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: And before I got back to Montana to get the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: second one, that the commercial storage unit burnt to the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: ground and I lost half of everything I own, including
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: you know, a couple of hundred trophies and a dozen
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: custom boats and irreplaceable stuff you know, family heirlooms and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: so forth, you know. But uhum, I cried. But anyway,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: it was, you know, again just a freak accident type
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: of thing, but kind of had it so much from
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: my trophy room and had to kind of start all
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: over again, you know. But anyway, Um, so we've lived
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: in Iowa now for what whatever sixteen years, and you know,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I love it. I just love the hardwoods. I love
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: the the the trophy you know, white tails, and um
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: the terrain. And I can't say I really enjoy the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: heat of the summer. But that's you know, I can
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: deal with that, you know. Um as I sat. Humidity
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: no no big no huge, yeah, no huge problem and stuff,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: you know, so I can. I'm for the the advantage
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I get with on that is I don't have to
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: deal with snow, you know, twelve feet of snow in
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: your driveway in Montana. You've you know, man, I'm just
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: gonna say, you've You've lived in the only two states
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: in the country that I would move to, the two
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: states I consider moving to our Iowa in Montana and
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: about mont and I you know, have no offense to
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: some of the listeners, but uh, as I said earlier,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: everything is in the timing. And my daughter still lives
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: out there and we go out, you know, every year
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: and so forth. But it has changed so drastically. I mean,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: the guys will say, hey, you lived in Montana. Can
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: you give me some pointers on you know, where can
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I have a decent chance to see and I'm getting
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: some milk or whatever, And you know, I have to
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: be honest with them. It's changed so drastically. For for example,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: the wolves when we lived there, Um, I mean, I
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what year was back in the eighties,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: you know, I ran into some wolves and you know,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: nobody even knew they were around, and and now they're everywhere.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: And areas that we used to walk pack back in
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: for elk that were you know, very real. I mean,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: there's one our favorite area. It was like I can't
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: remember twenty six or twenty seven miles from the from
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: the road type of thing. And now there's hardly any
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: elk in Therefore. I haven't been in myself, but I've
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: talked to guys who have, and there's there's hardly any
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: elk in there, because before you know eastern Montana, we
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: used to go into eastern Montana. You know, is quote
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: our vacation. I was talking about the first two weeks
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: in October, and we would make a circuit and we
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: would basically hunt the major river drainage is the Missouri,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the Yellowstone, the Milk River, etcetera. For for example, the
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Milk River. I mean, it's all over television. Everybody talks
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: about the milk gene, and I say, quote, discovered the
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Milk River. We hunted the Milk River for decades and
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: never even saw or heard of another bow hunter. And
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: we used the analogy. You could go in western Montana
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: in the big timber and there would be I would
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I would hunt all day long at home around home,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: and I act in five deer day, all right, and
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: of those five deer, two or three of them would
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: be bucked. It was very close to a buck dough ratio.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: But of those two or three bucks, one or those
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: bucks would be fully mature, so you would but you
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: would only see it was some long days when you're
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: hunting light to dark and you only see five deer,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: whereas an eastern Montana we would do the same thing
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: and you would see between three and five hundred deer
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a day in the woods while you're hunting. And I
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: use the analogy it's like if you take a lake
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: and take all the water out except one little strip
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of water down the middle, you know where the fish
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: are going to be. And that's the way that the
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: prairie and eastern Montana was. It concentrated because of the moisture.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: You know, the river bottom there was, that's where the
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: cover was. And that's also where the irrigation was. Where
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the farmers had fields and they would plant the crops
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: in the or gate the crops and so forth. So
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: that because of the the the cover and security the food,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: you're there. Okay, anyway, it concentrated the deer in one area,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: and you know, as you would have a lot better
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: you know, hunting and so forth. So I got on
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: a tangent. What was the original question. I was just
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: talking about how I wanted to move to Montana, and
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: you were saying, how it's not like I was going
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: to say, now, oh yeah, thanks for bringing that back up,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: because those areas that we used to hunt e h
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: D hit and this was this was back it hit
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: a little bit. We didn't even know what nobody knew
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: what it was back in the seventies and eighties and
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: so forth. And then in the nineties it hit big
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: time in eastern Montana, and um, I remember one year
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: and and don't quote me, I don't remember what year
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: it was, but one year we had and I can't
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: even remember the order, but we had it was the
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: worst winter snow in a hundred years, and so we
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: lost like half of the of the deer herd. And
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: then the next summer it was drought type of thing,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: and we lost almost well sixty percent. So we we lost,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: you know, although of six of the fifty percent that
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: was left over from the year before type of thing,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: so it pretty much wiped out. And at that time,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the there biolog just they didn't even know. I mean,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: the ones I talked to didn't know what was going on.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we would go in and talk
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: to him and they're asking us questions, you know, and
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: they were um, and I got a what's my words here?
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: They were they were just naive. They didn't know. Uh,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: they hadn't ever dealt with it before. And I remember
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: them telling me that that p h D was similar
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: to blue tongue and it was non sex specific, meaning
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: it would be kill this as many does as bucks.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: It was non aged specific, it would kill just as
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: many fonds as trophy bucks, etcetera. But Jane and I
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the farms we used to hunt that fall, We go
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: over there and he and I found seventy seven, zero
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: seventy dead bucks that were um, and I'm I think
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: that we found one two by one you know, spike
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: on a fork on one side, and one little three
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: by three. Out of seventy, you know, sixty eight of
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: them were four by four. Eight pointers are better. And
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: I'm talking three and a half, four and a half
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: five and a half year olds, you know. So I
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: mean when you find and two found two doughs, we
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: said we found a spike or whatever, a spike in
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: a three by three and two doughs and the rest
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: were trophy quote mature bucks type of thing. And that's
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: not fifty fifty you know. So, as I said, they
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: they wiped out the entire area, entire age structures, and
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: uh you can at the end of that when that happened,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: you could drive around, I mean fields, and you were
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: allowed to spotlight if you didn't have a weapon in
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the car and stuff. And we used to call Fish
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: and Game. We we got along great with him. Would
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: call him and say, we're gonna, you know, check out
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: an area so and so. You know, if anybody reports us,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: it's just us or whatever. Anyway, my point is that
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: you could spot a field one year and it would
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: be two d and fifty deer standing in it, you know,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: at night with the spotlight. And then then the year
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: after you go back to the same field and there's
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a dough and a fawn, you know, and how come
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: they didn't die, you know type of thing. I mean,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: it just totally wiped them out. So consequently we moved
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: on and it would it come. They started to come back,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and it would just start to come back and it
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: would hit again. And you know, I said to Gene, hey,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: we're getting too old for these fonds to grow up
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: to be five and a half years old only to
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: get wiped out when they're four and a half or whatever,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: you know, So that was the the opportunity to to
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: move to Iowa, and that's what we did. And uh,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: as I said, I never looked back type of thing,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: you know, but it's so different now. Um, if you
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: go to Montana, you need to really research. And I
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: don't want to paint a negative picture because there's probably
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: still good areas, um And there are certain areas that
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: the disease problems would hit, you know, terribly in other
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: areas that had passed right over type of things. So
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting. But all I'm saying is, um, Um,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: if you do hunt Montana, you need to really research
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: the area, be it you know, elk cantalope, white tails
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: or whatever, because it's not the same as it was,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: you know, necessarily when we were there and it was prime.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: So I don't want to paint an unrealistic picture. No,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: it's a good way. It was great. Well last it's interesting.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: I've I've punted Montana for white tails the last two years, um,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: once in central Montana, once in eastern Montana. And uh,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I would love to have seen what it was like
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: back in the day, if it was that much better,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: because even today it seems remarkable to me as a
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Michigan guy. Um. But but man, it must have been
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: something pretty special before these issues. So I was gonna say,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: but now that you're in Iowa, UM, I kind of
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: want to shift over to what you're doing these days.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that I've read from you
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: you seem to talk about a lot is how you're
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: hunting these deer using terrain, using an understanding of how
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: deer used terrain um in different different ways. That train
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: funnels deer, moves deer, and allows you to hunt. And
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to use that as a starting
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: point for us to dig into, like the tactic side
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: of things, because you know, whether be Montana or Iowa
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: or wherever else you've hunted, it seems like you've been
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: able to get on big, mature deer and you're doing
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: it hunting with traditional archer equipment, which requires you be
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: very close to these deer. So you've been a really
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: fine tune your ability to do this. So I guess
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: I kind of want to set you off in that direction.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Tell me about I love talking about that because I
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: think that is one of the most important things that
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: we need to worry about in the future. Um. Frankly,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the young hunters today are being taught and it it's
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: nobody's real really, not anyone you know, idea or thought,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: but it's it's human kind of human nature. Um that
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: the young kids that they want more and bigger and
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: faster type of thing. And as I said, they all
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: want to be a Michael Jordan's but I don't want
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: to have to practice shooting hoops, you know. I mean,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: they all wanted to be a successful big game hunter,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: but trophy hunter, so to speak. But they don't want
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: to have to to you know, learn or you know,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: and they've been taught the TV programs I hate, but
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: they're kind of teaching the youth of today that the
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: way to hunt white tails is to sit over food
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: plot in a shooting house and they'll sit there and
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: play their game boy or whatever they're you know, their
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: iPod or what pad or whatever it is, and and uh,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: you know, wake me up if a big one comes about, dad,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: you know that time I'll blast them. You know. No
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: woodsmanship where the kids are learning, um, the easy way
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: and not learning the woodsmanship skills, which is really disappointing
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: to me. Because to me, that's what makes it so rewarding.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: That's where the fun is, is to to go out
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: and actually put the pieces of the puzzle together. And
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I had to say, earn the trophy, but be able
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: to to uh, predict what's going to happen, and not
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: just a deer walking into a food plot type of thing,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: but predict when it's going to happen, how it's going
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: to happen, you know, you know, et cetera. And then
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: put all these pieces together. And frankly, there's no better
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: way than boots on the ground. I mean, you can
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: listen to the I mean no offense. You can listen
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: to the iPods, you can watch the videos, you can
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: read the books and watch the TVs and and so forth.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: But there's so many things that you actually have to
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: get out and put boots on the ground. I mean example,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: aerial photos. You can look at an aerial photo and
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: that's all well and good, and you can gain you
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: can benefit from that, but you can't there's a lot
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: of stuff that you cannot see an aerial photos. The
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: kinds of trees, the light intensity, um, the understory it's
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: thicker here, you know. I have run these boot camps
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: for fifteen years now, and that's where they shine. These
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: guys you know, will come in and it's a three
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: day session and I they come in and I'll the
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: first day is basically classroom stuff. I'll spill my guts.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: And then the next two days I take them out
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: into the timber and I show them my own personal
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: stands and explain why they're there, how they're there, when
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: I hunt them, how I hunt them, et cetera. And
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: as I said, there's so many things gray areas that
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: are hard to understand via watching TV or reading or
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: just listening, whereas I can take like, for for example,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: edge everybody will say, you know, oh yeah, I know
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: what edges. That's where the field meets the timber type
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: of thing. Well, then I'll take them into timber and say, okay,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: stand right here and notice that the understory is thicker
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: here than it is right there there. That's an edge.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Noticed that the canopy is thicker here than it is
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: over here. That's an edge. That is why the understory
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: is thicker here than it is over here, because the
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: canopy is allowing sunlight to come in and generate the
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: understory and make it thicker and you will have dear
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: depending on the situation and in other words, uh different.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I'll point out examples, okay. For for example, there's one
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: one place I'll take the guys and I'll say, okay,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: see that it's offense, a run offense. Internally it runs
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: east west, all right. The south side of the fences
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: trees thicker, understory, etcetera. The north side of the fence
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: is pasture, but a few trees in it and so forth.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: All right, And I'll say to those guys, you know
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: you can sit this spot. The deer are coming from
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: the food source to the west. They're going to the
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: bedding area to the east, all right. In early season
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: before like in the beginning of our season overly opens
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: October one, okay, for the first couple of weeks of October,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: deer that are going from the food source to the
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: bedding area will walk out in the pasture. And this
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: is back in it's not next to any roads or anything.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: But they'll walk out in the pasture. And you'll think itself,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: why are they doing that when they don't have the density,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: And then you think more about it, and you think, okay,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: the reason being is it's predominant south southwesterly wind. They
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: can walk can that pasture and not have any disturbance,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Instead of bowling their way through thick understory
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: of briers, you know, stickers, it's got do on it.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: It's wet, you know, they got to bowl their way
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: through it type of thing versus an easy walk through
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: the pasture. But as soon as the first frost shit,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: then the leaves and the understood thick understory will die.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: The frost kills the leaves, they'll drop, and then it
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: will actually be easier. Then they will shift. The dear
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: movement will shift into the the thicker what was sick
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: understory is still thicker than the pastor, but it won't
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: be there. They don't have to worry about bulling their
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: way through it the leaves of fallen. Plus they still
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: have the wind to their advantage, so they can smell
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: anything that's upwind of them, and they can see anything
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: it's downwind of them. And consequently it's you know, safe
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: secure travel, so that you you have to set up
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: your stand accordingly depending on the certain time of the year.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: We do stuff like that all the time. And I,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: as I said, I guess I should say. It's just
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a a saturation thing. In other words,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: if somebody said to me, you know, um, you know,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: how do you base your your hunting technique? You know,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: what would you suggest these younger guys do. Uh. One
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: of the things that I would highly recommend is for
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: them to slow down, um, meaning slow down and think
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: about what you're seeing. UM. I used to brag. I
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: mean I'm talking, you know, thirty forty years ago. I
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: used to brag about going into an area and I
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: could run through it and put it all together, you know,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: and it was almost I was almost cocky about it. Okay.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: But in my older you know age, UM, I have
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I used to I used to say, I'd rather go
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: into an area and walk at one time for six hours,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: you know, rather than go back and disturb it six
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: times an hour each, all right, And now I'm the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: completely one eight the other way around. I would much
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: rather go back multiple times. Number one, because a comparison
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: type of thing. You can compare the thermal, the wind
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: direction on uh, you know, day one versus day three
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: or four times the fifth time you walk it, and
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: so forth, you can delight intent the things that that
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: you can, you can learn the you know, spending. The
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: secret is timing. In other words, you don't you don't
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: do this close to the season. I mean I get
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: a charge out of all these, you know, I hate
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: to say it. The the average guy. They'll wait till
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks before the bow season opens,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: and okay, man, now I gotta I gotta go out
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: there and scout, you know. And I hate to tell you,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: but you know, they're they're way months too late. I
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: do my scouting right after the previous season when there's
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: no vegetation, you know, before it doesn't matter again if
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: there's snow cover on the ground, it's just eat here
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: walking when it's you know, no lead, I mean, no understory,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: but you know, no snow and ice you have to
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: worry about. But my point is I do the majority
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: of my scouting, you know, right after season, being prepared
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: and comparing. I'm out there all the time, all the time,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: you know. And I use the analogy. It's like and
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not a baseball fan or anything, but it's like
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: the baseball player going to spring training. You know. They
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: don't wait till the opening first game of the season
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: to start warming up, they go to Florida or Arizona
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: or whatever, you know, spring training, and they're they're they're
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: getting they're preparing and they're getting ready practicing for the opening.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: And it takes months, you know, not a week or
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: so type of thing. So, as I said, it's it's
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: uh and that's the fun of it, being able to
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: predict what's going to happen. But if I had to
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: pinpoint my success, one of the biggest things is number one,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: hunting undisturbed deer. And number two is putting in the
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: time learning the terrain, because there's terrain features and structures.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Knowing how a dear, his whole life rotates around his
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: sense of smell. Guys do not realize or appreciate how
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: much they depend on the deer, depend on their sense
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: of smell in their everyday moving you know, everyday movements
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: and stuff. Um, let me say this. I use an example,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: all right, perfect example. Say you've got a ridge, hardwood
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: ridge running east west. Okay, on the east end of it,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: there's a food source, cornfield, alfalfa field, whatever, beans or whatever. Okay.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: On the west end of that ridge, it's all hardwoods
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: and it drops down to a creek bottom, right, there's
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: usually where it drops down to the you know, the
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: erosion and stuff. There'll be little shelves and so forth.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: All right. The predominant wind norm in our area comes
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: from the south or southwest, all right. So the deer
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: feed in the field, all right, and then they they
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: walk back and you know, across the ridges to their
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: bedding area. And they and we'll get into that in
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: a minute. And they bed there for security reasons all
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: right through the years. And I'm talking fifty years ago,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: all right, when they logged those hardwoods. You'll see the
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: remnants of an old skid road, all right, and that
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: will be on the top of that ridge, all right.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: The reason that the top of that ridge, that's human activity,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: human thinking, because it's easier to take the logs out
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: when they logged it fifty years ago with the skid
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: road on the top rather than side hill. But say
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: the top of that ridge is only I don't know,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: fifty yards wide, all right, That old grown over skid
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: road will still be. You'll be able to see it,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: and you'll see tracks on it. There's all kinds of
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: tracks because the deer walking up and down that skid road.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Most of your hunters will see those tracks and say,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: oh man, this is where I want to be. So
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: they'll get on, say, I guess it's that the example,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: it's going east west. They'll get on the north side
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: of that skid road, put their stand up all right,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: covering the skid road. What they don't realize is the
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: tracks that they're seeing on that skid road are nocturnal. Yes,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: there's tracks on it, but most of the tracks on
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: are made at you know, before and after dark. I
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: mean after before light and after dark type of thing.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: All right, So you you if you look around and
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: think of the logistics of why they do what they do,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: all right. If the the wind is coming from the
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: south and your east west ridge is you know, is
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: the movement patterns, So the deer going from the food
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: source to the east that are bedding to the to
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: the west. All right, the deer will, especially after lights,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: once in a while you'll get one walking that road.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: But how many times you've heard the guy he'll put
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: his tree stand up there and oh man, he came
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: in right behind me, you know, well, duh, I mean
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: the reason he came in right behind us where he
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: was supposed to come in I mean according to the deer.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: You know, you're thinking like a deer now, not like
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: a human. So what you do again? You look around
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: and you'll see a slight secondary trail over the crest
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: of the hill on the north side of the east
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: west facing you know, are running ridge. Okay, just over
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: the crest. Usually it's just down far enough where they're
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: not skylined, and it's still it will run the east
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: west over the crest that the ridge. That is where
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: you set up for type of thing in other words,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: and what happens, and you think of the reasoning behind it.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: They're living every day security because of their sense of smell.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: So the deer will they'll get up in the afternoon,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: they'll get up from their beds and they'll slowly work
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: their way out from west to east over the lip
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: of that of that ridge. They got a southerly predominant wind,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: so they can smell anything upwind of them, and they
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: can see anything downwind of them, so they can see
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: where they can't smell, and smell where they can't see,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: and they'll slowly work their way out, and then they'll
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: go out into the field after dark and be out there.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: So you're set up to to ambush them where they're
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: supposed to be, not where you think there'll be type
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: of thing and anyway, and the exact reverse is true
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: in the morning. In the morning, depending on if they're
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: running late or you know, the time of day and stuff.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: There's all kinds of things like that that you can
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: learn by going out and thinking about looking at what
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: you're seeing and thinking about it rather than you know,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: just you know, I mean a lot of that stuff
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: is is nothing but logic type of thing. Um. It's
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: like you know, scrapes, you know, the will tend to uh,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: they'll sit like in the guys will sit scrapes and
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: unless then we won't even get into that. But I mean,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: a good primary running breeding scrape type of thing. All right.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: You'll find if you study them long enough, you'll find
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: that that in the morning, bucks tend to scent check
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: the scrapes more in the morning, whereas in the afternoon
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: they'll actually visit them. And you think of the reasoning
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: behind it. Other words, in the morning deer or being uh,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: they might be betted. That depends on if it's lighter,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you know, say it's it's light, say it's eight o'clock,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: you know, in the morning type of thing, and that
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: deer wants to check that scrape for he might check
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: for uh, there might be a dough, receptive dough that's
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: betted right there. It might be another buck dominant subordinate
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: type of thing that's betted right there. So he'll come down,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: he'll come in down wind and send check it and
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: stuff go from there, all right. Whereas in the evening
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: they know that it's evening, and man all night long
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: while we're sleeping, they're running traction, grunting and breathing, and
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: you know they're carrying at a circus going on out there.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: So they'll go head right in to the scrape and
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: actually fresh out anything around here. No, okay, we'll freshen
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: it up tee here, and then then they'll move on
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: and so forth. A lot of that stuff is absolutely nothing,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: as I said, if you think about it, that's the
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: reasoning behind it that we were talking. You asked about
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: the terrain um, the the the you need to realize.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: I use this as an analogy the same thing. Okay,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: say say you've got a ridge, okay with a food
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: source at the bottom of the ridge. All right, Um,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: just through whatever you know, science or another. Hot air
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: rises all right, all right, because the ridge is higher
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: than the food source. During the day, the air currents
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: and I'm talking thermal currents, as the sun hits the air,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: they'll flow up the mountain type of thing. So the
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: deer will bet at the top of the mountain so
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: that they have the the thermals coming up the mountain
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: in into their their faces. They can smell anything that's
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: that's coming up the mountain, all right. The same say
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: the ridge is running east west, all right, and you've
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: got a predominant wind direction coming from the south. They
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: there's a certain now we're talking wind direction, not thermals.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: You'll find that the wind direction from the south will
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: be on over top of that ridge and it will
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: meet the thermal currents coming up on the north face
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: of that ridge. And there's there's an area there that's
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: just over the crested a ridge where they're getting both
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: the any thing and he smells and he sends disturbances
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: on the up wind side. Uh, you know, they're gonna
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: smell coming in and anything, any disturbances or whatever they're
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: on the down wind side, they're gonna come they smell
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: from the thermals, so that's where they're betting for security purposes.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Then in the afternoon, all right, while the sun is
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: still up, the majority of the herd, you know, the
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: immature box of those of fawns, will get up from
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: the beds and they'll start to work their way down
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: the mountain to the food source with the thermals in
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: their face type of thing. The big mature trophy buck.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: He remains betted at the top of the mountain, okay,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: until the sun goes down de thermalization, the thermals start
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: to cool. Then they start to run down the mountain,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: and you think of the logistics behind it, it makes
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: perfect sense. Now he's going down the mountain, he's got
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: the wind and the thermals at his back so he
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: can smell anything behind him. He's got the rest of
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: the deer herd down in the field acting his decoys.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: So if you bust, uh, you know, if a button
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: buck busts you down there, you don't even know the
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: big guy who was around type of thing. And that's
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: the exact reason. He's the last one to enter the field,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: you know, just before dark or after dark. And as
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: the exact opposite is through in the morning, before it's
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: even light, he'll start to work his way back up
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: the bedding to the betting area with the down the
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: cooler air thermal's coming down in his face type of thing,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: and he's got the rest of the herd over his back,
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: watching the watching the back door, so to speak. So
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: it's a predicted normal pattern that guys need. If they're
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: aware of that, they can look for that type of thing.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: It's like, there's so much stuff out there that you
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: read about. And and I hate to say, a lot
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: of the outdoor writers, you know, they're just they'll make
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: stuff up, and I don't think they really understand what
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: they're saying half of the time anyway, you know, I mean,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: and again, no offense, some of them do. But my
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: my point is, for example, like uh, scrapes, alright, when
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: a when a the function of a scrape, you ask,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: you know, the average guy, and you know, oh, that's
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: where that's the calling card, where the do the buck
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: meets the dough and stuff? Yes it is, but there's
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: a lot more going on at a scrape than people realize,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: all right, all right, when when again, if if a deer, uh,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: if a buck makes a scrape. Okay, he urinates, and
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of times the dough is the one who picks.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: You know, you'll urinate in that spot. And it's usually
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: in a spot that the number one is secure and
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: number two where you know there's a lot of deer
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: travel and so forth. Okay, So say the buck as
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: the ground, you know, turn turns up, turns up the dirt,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: and then he brings his his tarso glands is you know,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: hawk lends together, he'll pee over the hawk glands. Two
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: things happen at that time when he urinates in that scrape. Okay,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: the urine itself will be deposited, and the the each
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: deer within the deer herd, the social structure, that dear heard,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: every deer has its own personal distinct aroma. In other words,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: that's and you can use analysis. That's why you know
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: when they separate the cows and the calfs, and you
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: know that that's how the cow finds, you know, and
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: the calf to come back together through the the odor
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: of the individual animals. All right, So his personal scent
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: is left in that scrape. The second thing is that
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: the aroma deposits his health, meaning a dough and it
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: gets heavy. But a dough can smell that urine, and
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: she knows again if that's a healthy animal or not.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: If it's a healthy animal he has she's smelling the
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: smell of fat molecules. If it's an unhealthy animal, she's
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: smelling the aroma of protein type of thing. So she
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: can smell that scrape and she she instantly knows, Oh,
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: that's Bob the eight pointer, all right, and he's healthy.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Whereas this one, Oh that's Jim the ten pointer, and
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: you know he's got some problems, even though he's got
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: more points on his head. You know, a day, the
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: dough will pick her sires. She knows which one she
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: can you know that, yes, the bucks will all try
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: to harass her and stuff, But as long as she
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: keeps moving, you know, she can you know, prove that
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: being you know, bread type of thing. So she she
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: wants to be bred by the animal that you know,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: she prefers, which is the healthiest one, you know, has
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: the best genetics, you know, just for a perpetuation of
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: of the specie and stuff, you know, things like snorting.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: I get carried away here sometimes I think I think
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: this is a good place to take a quick break,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: and uh hopefully have a notepad because obviously we've been
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: covering a lot here, a lot of information, a lot
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: to take in, but good stuff, very good stuff. But
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break here for a word
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: from our friends at White Tailed Properties, and then we'll
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: get right back to it. This week with White Tailed Properties,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: we are joined by Brandon Schwartzlander, a land specialist out
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: of Illinois, and Brandon is going to be telling us
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: about the importance of getting the next generation involved with
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: land management. You know, that's a great question. I think,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: uh me personally, I think getting kids involved early. Maybe
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: not just kids, but but anyone who hasn't experienced the
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: outdoors or land. I mean, it's it's just such an
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: awesome advance. I honestly gotta have to pinch myself sometimes
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: because I get to do this for a living. But
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: you know when when I have girls and some of
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: them hunt, some of them don't hunt, but just just
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: being out we all shoot, we all shoot bows, um,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: and we all experience the outdoors, we shed hunts, we
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: do all those things together. I just think that you
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: can take away so much more by spending time with
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: whether it's your family or friends or whomever in in
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: the woods or or you know, on a piece of land.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's so much better than than you know,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: having a phone stuck in your face or a laptop
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: or whatever. I just think it gives us an opportunity
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: to go back to to what we we're raised on
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: and and I think, you know, maybe maybe that's missing
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: to some degree and in society today. But I just
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: think when when you introduce things at an early age.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: I think guy was probably five when I started um
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: in the outdoors with my dad. But it makes you
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: want to be better, and it takes you away from,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: you know, things that that can be a negative influence.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: I just I feel like it's it's such a positive
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: thing for especially with family. I mean, when you can
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: can do those things with your kids and your wife
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: or whatever. If you'd like to learn more and to
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: see the properties that Brandon currently has listed for sale,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: visit white tail properties dot com. Backslash swards lander that's
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: s w A R t z l A n d
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: e R And now let's get right back into it.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Things like snorting. When a dear snort, All right, guys
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: will say, you know, oh he blew me type of thing.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Well maybe and maybe not. What I'm saying, the reason
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: a dear snorts is to blow the mucus out of
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: there if they if they snort, they might have smelled you,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: but they might have might have been something out. They'll
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: accept and it's not really that you know, much of
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: a danger to them. So they'll blow, They'll snort, they'll
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: blow the mucus out of the nasal cavity and stuff.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: At the same time, they moisten the orifice, meaning that
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: that the the opening of the nose and nasal cavity
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: will become moist and a moist orifice will pick up
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: scent molecules in the air. You've seen bucks where you
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: assume get their licking their noses all the time. In editor,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: their tongues licking all over the licking their nose. That's
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: what they're doing. They're moistening the orifice to try to
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: pick be able to pick up the scent molecules a
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: little bit better. But as I said, I get kind
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: of carried away sometimes. But the bottom line is you
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: need to put boots on the ground, slowly walk around
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: and decide why they're doing certain things, and line everything up,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: um that you're still there, right, yeah, we are here. Okay, Okay,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: you didn't want to find out. I didn't want to
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: find out. I've been talking to myself for the last anyway,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: You've got anyway, you've got a wealth of information. This
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: is this is terrific. Oh great, Well, and like I said,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: you need to look everybody out there needs to look
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: at pieces of the puzzle. You know, the words meaning
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: um okay. For example, Um, the I shot two big
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: bucks last year. Okay, the second one? All right. The
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: reason that stand is where it is is because there
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: is let's say one to actually three different fence corners
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: come together, well kind of like a y type of thing,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: all right, but no, wait about one? Yeah? Three? Al right,
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: actually four. But anyway, my point is on the north
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: side of the fence, and this is where the boot
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: can't camp classes shine because I can point this stuff out,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: see how that angles up like that, you know where
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: we can't see that on the phone type of thing.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: But you know, guys are able. I use the the analogy.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like, you know, watching a war movie
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: versus actually being in War's a big difference and stuff.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: So me telling you about it versus you know, trying
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: to put it together in your mind might might not work.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: But anyway, my point is, um, you need to to
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: scout your areas out and most guys do not look
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: far enough. Other words, Um, in this particular scenario, all
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: right over the horizon, it's not even in view, it's
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: over the crest that the horizon. To the north of me,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: there's a stock pond, I mean a farm pond, all right,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: and the farmer has it circled fenced ht a barbed
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: wire fence around it. But the angles of that fence,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the the uh cultivated crops are past the the stock tank,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: and the angles that the the fences that cut you know,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: that run around a perimeter of that dictate the movement
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: with a little like little strips of trees that are
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: that are angled a certain direction. All right, So my
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: stand is positioned so my scent blows over top of
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: the stock pond where they're not going to bust me,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: you know, unless they're walking on water type of thing.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: But they'll they'll follow from the the food source the
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: angle of the fence. They'll follow it down. They'll hit
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: a tree line and the fence turns. They'll follow parallel
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: to that fence, and they'll walk right down and they'll
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: cross the fence that I'm sitting next to um with
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: with an almost wrong wind, meaning they think they're walking
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: into a headwind because they're going from basically north to
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: south with a southwest wind, and they feel perfectly safe
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: doing that because they can think they can smell everything.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: But I'm just and again they're going from north to
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: south and my wind is going southwest to northeast. So
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: it's almost wrong type of thing. But they can't bust
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: me because my sense going over top of the water
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: type of thing. So it's one of those you need
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: to reason, hey, that's where you need to be type
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: of thing in order to to you know. And most
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: guys they don't. They won't walk up over the crest
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: like oh man, here here, the here, the stock pond here,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know, and you put put
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: it all together, and you know, old hedgerows, old dilapidated fences,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: you know, the understory thicker here than there. Um, the
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: betting area is up there and versus you know, um,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: everything all pieces of the puzzle that all come together
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: and all make perfect common sense. As I said when
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: a guy realizes these deer are actually uh, you know, surviving,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: I mean the the the uh their sense of smell
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: is what basically is keeping them alive, etcetera. And and
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: they how they use the terrain and the air currents
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: to travel you know, from certain you know, one spot
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: to the next is absolutely you know the secret in
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: other words, that where you you can ambush them. And
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: then you have to take in a consideration like the
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: entrance egxit me before before we before we get to
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: enter exit routs, because I definitely want to cover that.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: But I just want to uh double check on a
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: few things here before we lose some folks on something
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: just talked about there. Um that being you know, how
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: two things. Number one, if I can, um, if I
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: can kind of sum up a few things you said
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: there and make sure I've got this right. Number one,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: it's really important to be looking at our hunting properties
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: from a big pictures perspective and from a come a
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: micro pattern. So from a big pictures perspective, understand how
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: all these different large terrain features ponds, ridges, fence rows,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: how all these different things might move dear how funnel
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: deer through a property. But at the same time, you've
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: got to also get on the ground and look at
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: the micro differences, so a slight edge or slight difference
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: and cover within a piece of property, or a slight
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: shelf on the side of a ridge. So I think
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: a big takeaway. I think for people listening, they need
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: to remember Scout and learn your property from the big
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: picture and from the small picture. And then that's perfect.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: And let me just interject this and I'll let you
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: pick it up. I use the NL I'm big on analogies.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: I use the analogy of a doctor looking at an
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: X ray versus a layman looking at an X ray.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: You can put an X ray up on a screen
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: of a skeleton and take it to the average guy
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: say you know, okay, here the average guy, I'll say, there,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: there's the head, there's the neck, there's the spine, there's
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: the arms and all this stuff. Whereas you put that
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: same X ray up and have a doctor look at it,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: he's looking for minute, minute changes, little anomalies, the things
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: that you know fractures and and you know, calcium deposits
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: and this relationships, little minute things. So that's what we
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: as deer hunters are. Our trophy deer hunters need to do.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: You need to to when you say micro that's a
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: good term. You need to really really inspect, stop, slow
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: down and think about what you're seeing. And by all means,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: when you discover something, share with your buddies, you know,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: and the kids and stuff, so they can go out
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: and then they'll look at these patterns that you have
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: just pointed out and give you even more input. Then
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: where it's again it's not like you know again, it's
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: like it's like a team type of thing. And I mean,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: I love to share this stuff, you know. I love
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: to get the feedback after I'll teach somebody, you know,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: and I'll learn from the type of things anyway. And
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. And um to to one
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: of your points you talked about a little bit earlier,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: you know, you mentioned as we were talking through structure
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: and how do you use terrain, something you kept on
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: alluding to was not only the terrain that funnels deer movement,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: but then how they're using the wind in relation to
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: that terrain. So you talked about how dear are going
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: to be traveling just off the crest of a ridge
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: with the wind blowing to him in a certain way,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: or how bucks will bed so they can see down
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: the hill, can smell behind them um, or how they'll
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: use wind to check scrapes in the morning while they
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: might actually visit that scrape in the evening. So you've
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: mentioned a number of different examples where you're thinking about
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: how deer are using the wind. But I also know
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: that you also are really thinking about wind from a
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: hunting perspective, especially when you're choosing how to hunt these
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: different terrain features which funnel dear and I've read a
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: little bit about how you've use some things in the offseason,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: like smoke bombs or something to to track all these
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: different wind patterns. Can you go into detail for us
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: on how you are thinking about wind when actually choosing
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: a stand location, how you check the wind in those places,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: How do you know and figure out a how winds
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: in an area and how they would be deer use it?
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Certain I mean the same thing. You need to think
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: about this and when when people talk about wind currents,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: all right, everybody assumes or thinks that the windows say,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: you're up in the ladder, you know, fifteen ft and
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: you you check the wind and they see the the
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: air current go out and the gravity will start to
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: pull it down to earth. Well that is a lot
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: of the times, but a lot of the times it's
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: the other way around, where it will go out and
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: you'll have up drafts. You have to think of air
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: as like invisible water. And when I'm in the stand,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: all right, when I use what I use is that
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: um polyester yarn. I buy it at fly fishing tackle shops.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: You can get it, you know, any of the major
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: sporting gas storage and it's like, uh, it looks like
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: cotton candy, but it comes in fluorescent and sharp truce
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: and any kind of bright color, you know. But anyway,
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: and it's like, I don't remember, you get like five
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: feet of it for two three bucks or something. Right anyway,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: I cut it in length about six inches, and I
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: keep it in my right front. I'm left, I mean,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: I'm right handed to my bows and my left hand.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: But I'll keep it up in the upper corner just
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: inside my front right pocket. I tuck it in there,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: all right. When I get in the stand, I'll pull
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: it out and i'll take just you don't need very much,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: just a few filaments, and I'll pinch off some fiber
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: polyester fiber filaments and I'll stick them to my shirt
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: on my left sleeve. So I might have eight or
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: ten or twelve little pieces of of yard this polyester
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: yarn stuck to my sleeve, so that when I'm sitting
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: there in the stand, I mean all the time, I
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: mean almost constantly, you know. And again I will obviously
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: be careful and you're moving around, you know, make sure
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: you can see for you, but I'm constantly checking the wind.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: I'll reach you over to my sleeve and I'll pull
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: a couple of filaments off, and I'll watch it and
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: it'll drift out and it's going up beautiful, or it's
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: going it's going down, okay, you know, but it's going
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: right towards that one dead snag over there. So I
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: know the exact angle, et cetera, the velocity and exactly
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: the way it's going and so forth. All right, that
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: is very very important, so that you can know because
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: you might have a buck a shooter come in from
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: a different direct state, or maybe one following a dough
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: in other words, and you have to wait, Okay, it's
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: quartering to me, quartering to me, you know, and okay,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: right before the dough that he's following hits that your
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: sent travel the air current. You know, okay, the air
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: is going right towards that snag right before she hits that.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: Now is when you shoot him type of thing when
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: you know, not you know, not letting them get quarter
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: in a way, or if you'll bust in blow up
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: the whole scene type of thing. But anyway you you
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: can go to. In fact, I just bought a dozen
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: of them a couple of weeks ago. I was at
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: a a gun show in Iowa, and you know, they
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: had some firework. You can get them in any fire
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: or any uh, any place that sells fireworks and so forth,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: you know. But they come little colored ones and you know,
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: the you know whatever, blue or yellow or red or whatever.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: But I'll take you know, the the smoke bombs and
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: I'll put this is in the off season, by the way.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: I'll take you know, the smoke bombs and I'll lay
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: them on the grill of the platform and I'll light
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: them and then they'll and I always mentioned this because
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: I've just some of them are really cheap and they
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: you know, they blow out smoke for five seconds and
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: they're done. Whereas some of the good ones will blow
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: out volume of smoke for you know whatever seconds type
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: of thingum. By the way, I think I've been told
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: you can get them in the Granger Catalog industrial supply
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: to those smoke you know, detector type of smoke where
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: they're white smoke. But they'll they'll go off for for
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: for a long period of time and you'll be able
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: to visually see, you know, how the smoke is going
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: around certain trees. If the for example, if you're in
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: hardwoods and there's a single theater juniper whatever right there,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: and it hits it's going towards that tree, Does it
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: go around it to go up over it? Does it
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: go through it? That that type of thing, or you
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: can see um where there's hill like especially in valleys
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: and ah, you know, I remember one scenario there. I
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: was in a valley and I thought it was wide enough.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: It was probably I mean the bottom of the two
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: ridges it was. It was over a hundred yards wide
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: at the bottom, and it was a quek drainage. Well,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: when I was on the one side, I had a
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: perfect wind right in my face and I had deer
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: on the other side, I mean snort their brains out,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: you know, And I thought it was a trespasser over there,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: you know, and what they're supposed to be anybody over
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: there anyway, So I ended up later, you know, lighting
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: a smoke bomb there and then the same wind direction
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: if the wind was right in my face and it
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: would go behind me and do a big you go
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: up over my head and go straight across the valley
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: and you know, and start running up the ridge on
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: the other side type of thing. You know. So, um,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: I need a sip of water here anyway, it would,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: it would. That's what the deer were snorting at. Even
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: though the wind was indicative that I had it in
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: my advantage, it was you could I couldn't see what
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: it was doing without using the smoke and detect that
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: and so forth. So again that's just you know, another
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: little trick that you can use and study it and stuff.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of this stuff relates back to
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: again common sense or physics or whatever you want to
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: call it. You know that the you know gravity, like
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: we're talking to gravity. Oh there's another one, the like creek.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: But when I go into an area I just said,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: like a flat valley between two ridges type of thing,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: and say, I've never been in that area. Before I'm
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: just going into scott it. The first thing I normally
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: do is I'll go down and I'll walk because there's
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: a ridge on both sides, um, I'll walk the valley
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: between them, which will have a drainage in it. And
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: that drainage, you know, it might have water in it, it
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: it might not have water in it, but because there
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: is a drainage there, and the whole area could be
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: big timber, but because there is a drainage there, you'll
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: usually because of sedimentation rates and more moisture, you'll see bigger, older,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: more mature oaks right along the edge of that drainage,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: whether it's water in it or not. Okay, this time,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: like right now, this time of year, when the acorns
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: are dropping, those big mature oaks are dropping, and say
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: the trees right on the lip between the creek bottom
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: and the shelf above the creek. Okay, half of the
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: acorns will drop on the shelf it's horizontal and lay
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: right there, and half of them will drop into the
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: creek on the downward slope gradually going down to the creek.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: All right, then you get a heavy rain, a gully washer,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: will you know, we'll get two inches of rain. The
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: water will rip down that drainage and two days later
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: it's dry again. Okay, But what it does it removes
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of the dead leaves and the twigs and
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, and it's just there. You've got that
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: dry creek bed either pebbles or sand, and it'll be
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: a virtual smoorgus board. You know. The acorns will all
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: be washed down a little, there'll be in little pockets
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: here they'll be laying in. It's like a food trough
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: type of thing. So what do you think about the
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: logistics of it? What a deer will have a much
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: easier time picking acorns up out of a dry creek bed,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: you know, where they're exupposed, and they don't have to
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: scrounge form versus having to scrounge around in six inches
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: of dry corn flakes. And finally, well there's one you
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: know that type of thing, you know. So, as I said,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff is nothing but common sense
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: and thinking about what you're seeing and so forth. Um
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: so so real quickly bad. Before you bounce them to
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: the next topic, I want to jump in here, Dan.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: I know you you had a couple of things you
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: want to try to clarify with with Barry. Maybe yeah, um,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: when you're when you approach a new property, or let's
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: say it's it's a it's the first time you're going
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: in to either hunt it or scout it. Do you
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: have a terrain feature that you're kind of drawn to
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: as maybe a favorite location to hunt out of? Where
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: do you start? Yeah? Well, again, pretty much what I
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: just said in other words, that terrain feature. I'll go
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: to the creek bottoms and I'll walk those creek bottoms
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: looking knowing that that deer are going to be traveling
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: from the ridge on say the creek runs north south
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: and you've got a bridge on the east side and
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: a bridge on the west side type of thing. Deer
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: gonna be going back and forth from the east ridge
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: of the west ridge and etcetera. But if you walk
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: in that dry creek area for I don't know, you know,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: five d six hundred yards, you'll depending on the density
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: and where it is, etcetera, but you'll find areas where
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: there's because of the land of the terrain structure, there
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: will be certain spots that it's easier major crossings and
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: stuff were the deer will go across the creek there,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: all right, So I'll then I'll find those three or
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: four spots, all right, mark them off. Then I'll go
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: and I'll take each one of those and go up
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: on the ridge on either side, all right, or both sides,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: I should say, you know, so that you're following up,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: et cetera. And then when you get up there, you
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: normally you'll find it's not perfectly at a forty five,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: meaning you know, it'll go up and there'll be a shelf,
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: and then it'll go up again it'll be another shelf,
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: and erosion has caused that, and so forth. And then
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: you'll you'll also notice tributaries where you'll you'll get little
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: there's no water in them, or gets that are on
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: the side of the hill and or probably won't be
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: any water unless there's a spring there. But there'll there'll
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: be a little dry wash going down to the creek
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: bottom and stuff. You follow those dry washers at the
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: top and you'll get up there. I don't know what
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: three orders it away or whatever, and all of a
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: sudden they'll be what I refer to as a header,
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: meaning deer that are going north and south parallel to
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: the creek bottom will go where the tributary comes out
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: of the side of the hill, it'll start washing erosion
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: will start washing it away. And but above it, just
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: you know, a little matter of a few yards, they'll
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: be uh it's not washed out as much. It'll be
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: a flat spot where they can go around the head.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: That's why I call it a header, where they go
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: around the head of that tributary and stuff. All right,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: then you piece that together with the top of the ridge.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: As I said, when you're thinking of the predominant wind
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: direction and so forth, you you compare that with how
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: the deer are moving according to the land structure versus
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: the the wind patterns and so forth. Let me say
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: this too before I forge get this, this is really important. Um.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: You know, I I keep as I said, I try
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: to keep records. I got. I go to the weather.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: The computer is great for I mean in some reasons,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: it's terrible for other reasons and so far forth. But
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: at any rate, what I'm getting at is you can
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: go go to a weather uh site that has not
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: only your local predictions, but make sure they have the
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: hourly predictions. All right. Now, if and I hunt, you
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: know areas that I have stands in place. All right,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: if I go, when I go into an area, um
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: and basically just saturate that area, check it out everything
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: you possibly. Okay, say say you go. It's a huge here,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: it's five hundred acres and you've got twenty stands in there,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: all right. I mean if you don't have the stand.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: I realized everybody that twenty stands, but you might have
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: the area's primed prepped so that you can go in
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: and it might not be a stand there right now,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: but you can hang one in there quietly because it's
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: all already trimmed out in the steps are there and
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: everything in or just uh, you know it's ready for you.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: But anyway, my ide is, UM, I list all my stands,
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: either name them or number them or whatever. All right.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: Then every season I have my sheets, my lists, and
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: I'll have eight I'll have a morning list and an
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: evening list, and then I have eight different wind directions
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: north southeast, west, northeast, southwest, you know, all the eight
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: major wind directions for the morning and the other eight
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: win directions for the evening. Then I go through all
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: my stands and I name my stands, and I'll go
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: to that stand and I'll list, I'll check off the
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: the uh wind directions that stand is huntable on, all right.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: Then I also circle the one that that's the premium
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: optimum wind direction. Okay, So I'll go to that stand
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: and I'll go to go to stand, go to the
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: computer in the morning, and I'll look at the computer
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: and it'll say, Okay, you've got a southwest wind you know,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: uh this morning, and at one o'clock it's going to
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: turn to the west, and at two o'clock it's going
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: to turn to the northwest. And by three it's coming
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: out of the north. So if you're sitting, you can
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: plan your hunt and hunt your plan. So I go
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: to my charts and I'll look down, okay, for a
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: southwest wind. Here I got these these stands that are
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: perfect for southwest wind, all right. But then knowing that
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: the southwest wind by two o'clock or whatever I said,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: it's gonna switch to it to the north. Here's the
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: the the north the list of the north winds on
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: the chart that I can hunt, you know, for the
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: evening hunt and stuff. And then I will plan. I'll
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: look at those whatever you know, half dozen or whatever
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: it may be potential good stands, and I'll say to myself, Okay,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: let me think, uh, um, I haven't. I haven't sat
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: this one for over a week. And you know my neighbor,
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: you know, my buddy or my neighbor, you know, he
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: sat that one the day before yesterday. Okay, this one.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: We haven't sat this one for you know, two weeks.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: I'll go there in the morning and in the afternoon.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there was a big buck that you know,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Mailman's told me, so you know, you know whatever, and
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to that one for this afternoon. That way,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: you plan your hunting and hunt your plan so that
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: you're not you know, and as I said, you're you're
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: not just guessing. Um, yes, once in a while there.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: Let me say this too. When I lived in Montana,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: I lived west of the Continental Divide, and it was terrible.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, they mean no offense to the guys out there,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: but they had a hard time because the half of
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: the weather came out of the Pacific Northwest and half
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: of it came out of the down out of the
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: Canadian Rockies, and you know, it'd hit the Continental Divide,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: and it was it was always going all different directions.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: He couldn't depend on it, whereas in the Midwest they
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: are excellent, I mean absolutely outstanding, where you know they'll say, oh,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: the wind is gonna change at nine o'clock in the
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: morning and as sure as anything, oh two, its shifts,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: you know, and you know, how do they know that stuff?
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: You know? But anyway, like I said, planning and stuff,
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: I got it carried away again. No, no, you're good.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out where I want to go
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: from here though, because because we've covered such a wide
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: breath of topics. But I think let's let's do this.
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: You mentioned, you mentioned, um, we covered everything from terrain
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: to then wind to then how do we start you know,
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: where do you start your scouting process when you're looking
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: at wind? Um? So we've talked kind of a lot
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: about different stands sites. Really what it came down to
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: is how to look for those stands sites and the
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: things to consider when you're in a stand site. But
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: tell me this, um, how does all this, if it
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: all change from you know, as you move through October
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: into November and then into the late season, does this
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: at all change or are there any specific other things
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: that you're looking at? As we've moved through the season.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And you know the same thing I try to. Uh,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: this is some fanatical about this. So I mean, I've
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: got I've got multiple stands where I hunt, and some
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: of them I won't. I've got stands that I haven't.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: I haven't sat for three years. And the reason I
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: haven't sat him it wasn't really right that they're only
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: set up for certain specific reasoning. In other words, I
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: got stands at our morning stands, stands at our afternoon stands,
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: stands that that are observe anian stands, stands that when
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: there's foliage on the trees, stands in late season when
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: it's bear trees, you know, stands that are that are again, uh,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: where you know there's any any kind of variation you know,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: movement patterns or when the acorns are out and then
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: they you know, or out when they're dropping versus not,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: et cetera. So I like to have many, many options.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: And guys laugh about you know how many stands I
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: have out, But that's that's why I do it. And U,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: as I said earlier, Um, one of the secrets is
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: the entrance exit. You know, if I mentioned earlier, hunting
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: undisturbed deer um. And I'll use this as another example.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have ever hunted bear before,
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: but if you've ever hunted bear over a bear bait,
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: when you get multiple bear coming into a bear bait,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: because of the dominance subordinate type of you know, they
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: they'll they'll multiple bear will actually sneak into the bait,
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: and they use where they place their pads approaching the bait.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: They'll have specifically right foot, left foot, right, they'll have
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: pad marks, you know, were they'll place their pad in
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: order to sneak in to the to the bait and
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: not get into a confrontation with the bad boy, you know.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: But anyway, my point is I do the same thing
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: with my my stand sites, not all of them. But
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: for example, if if I'm on a ridge, all right,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: that um near the top of the ridge, and then
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: there's a valley across from me, and then another ridge
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: on the other side. All right, and say you're looking south,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: so the predominant wind direction. Knowing that the wind is
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: coming from the south, all right, I'll come in from
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: the north. Okay. When I come in from the north,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: all right, I keep down over the crest of the hill.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: So I'm out of sight and out of mind and
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: have the wind to my advantage. But in order to
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: get into the stand, I gotta come up over top
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: of the crest of the hill and any bucks served
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: deer for that matter, that are bedded a hundred and
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: fifty yards away across the valley up on that other ridge.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: And this is like an afternoon situation where it's already
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: light out obviously, but that you know. Other words, they're
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: laying there with the south southwest wind at they're backs
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: looking my direction, and if I have to walk thirty
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: yards in six inches of corn flakes, they're gonna sit
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: hear me and then see me, you know, and they'll
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: blow out of the air and the tails flagging, and
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: they'll come totally disturbed the area type of thing. So
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: I go in and normally and I wait till after
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: and I do it on a day, or try to
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: do it on days where it's poor hunting type of thing,
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: meaning it might be real windy or rainy or whatever.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: But I and I used to I started using a rake,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: but it's it's a lot better to use I use
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: the hoe rather than a rap because the leaves don't
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: get stuck in the teeth of the rake or and
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: the and the teeth of the hoe type of thing.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: But I'll go in from over the crest and for that,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: and I only do it for you know, like depending
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: on where the stands fifty yards. I hardly ever do
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: it more than maybe fifty yards. But I'll come over
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: the crest and I'll rake bare spots right down to
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: the earth so it's dirt, you know, right foot, left foot,
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: right foot, left foot, you know, all the way into
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: the ladder, and then you know, shinny up or climb
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: up into the stand and stuff, so that way you're
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: putting your foot on dirt rather then in six inches
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: of leaves. And I have absolutely done that, you know,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: multiple times. Where I do that. I'd climb into the stand,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: haul up my my bow, and I'm sitting there fifteen
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: minutes later, and I'll see on ear flick and I'll
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: look over and there's a big buck bedded there, you know,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: and there's absolutely no way I would have got in there,
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: you know, without raking out those spots out in other ways,
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: the secret entrance and exit type of thing, you know.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: And as I said that, there's little things like that
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: that I cost that. I thought everybody did that, you know,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: but apparently not. You know. I mean I tell guys
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: about it, and you know there's a big you know,
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: run on host on it, you know, an art I've
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: heard you. I've heard you refer to this kind of
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: level of attention to You've referred to as detailing a
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: stand site. Sounds like you you have to go through
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: a number of, you look, a number of small tweaks
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: or small details when you're setting up a specific spot.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: Could you could you explain for us some of the
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: other things that you think about or do when you're
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: detailing a specific stands. I'm gonna do better than that eventually.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: Um I, as I said, you know, I run these
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: boot camps, you know, and I'm I think I wasn't
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: gonna do anymore, you know, but I think I'm gonna
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: do to this next year type of thing, which I
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: close them down at fifteen guys, so I'm only going
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: to take a total of thirty guys. But my my
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: point is that that's very advantageous. But um I'm getting up,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: you know, in years, and they're physically demanding on me.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: So and I'm by the way, I don't even know
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: if you guys know about this or not. But I'm
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: just finishing up um a tremendous video that um not.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm supposedly the guy that shot the first
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: two deer on production video with the with the Bow,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: you know, and I probably why, you know, in the
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties, but you know now there's tens of
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: thousands of them out there. But anyway, my point is
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: what a lot of guys don't know is I used
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: to film my my own personal hunts since high school.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, and you know Class of sixty two rules,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I've got, I've got. I had
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: had over seven hundred hours of footage now I lost
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: And they think about that a forty hour work week.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: You're talking watching for four you know, nine to five
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: every day for four and five months or whatever it is.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: But anyway, my point is, I got it all edited
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: down to eight hours, and now I'm editing them down.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: So I've got literally over fifty years of footage that
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing out, and it's gonna be like a book form,
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: you know, where I have you know, different chapters and stuff,
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: and it's gonna be chapters on you know, like passed
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: up bucks and walk ups and actual kills, educational techniques
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: and rare footage, and in fact, I got I got footage.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: Guys are going to croak on this one, but it's
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: it's absolutely a world record typical wild typical, I tell
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: um and and again it's I've showed the footage to
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: a dozen official measures, and everybody thinks he's you know,
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: it takes a heck of a buck to measure, you know,
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: two inches typical this one. Everybody, everybody agrees that over
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: two twenty so typical. Anyway, I got a nostalgic footage
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: from the sixties and seventies, and the chapters on bear
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: hunting and bow fishing and hogs and havilina, and I
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: did one real short chapter on missus. But anyway, I'm
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: bringing that out right and it's like done now, and uh,
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: it's going to be called the Crooked Hat Chronicles, which
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: is because I were hat crooked all the time for
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: many years. But anyway, my point is that um, in relation,
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: everybody is hungry for the touning techniques and strategy and
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, and I decided there's a lot of
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: this stuff I need to put on film or need.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: And again it's it's not as good as being there,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: but at least it will get guys thinking. And I'll go,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I'll go into an area and just like
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: you said, and how do you how do you detail it?
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: And so forth, and you know, I'll explain, all right,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: this is why I picked this area, and this tree
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: might not look as good as this one, but this
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: one is going to be a better, uh strategic tree
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: to use. I would rather have a decent tree and
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: a great spot than a great tree and a decent
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: spot type of thing. So I'll pick and I'll say, okay,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: this is the tree I've decided on, and this i'm
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: a I'm a I prefer my shots, you know. I'm
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: I'm a better shot out at fifteen yards and then
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: I am at five yards. So how I manipulate the
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: surrounding area. I'll go through and I'll first I'll use
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: my pruners, and then I use one of those like
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: weed whacker things. It looks like a golf club, except
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: it's got a serrated blade on it, and I'll clear
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: the understory out there, you know, and then I'll rake
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: it out and create a visual so that that you
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: know that the deer can see that's where. And then
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: I will drop trees at certain angles. And I'm talking
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: obviously this is you know, um, I get permission. This
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: is in private property where you got to me. You
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: just don't do all this stuff without getting permission or anything.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: But my point is I'll drop trees at certain angles
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: that will nudge a deer and the canopy, the top
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: of the tree has to go at a certain angle
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: so that the deer gets a visual as it's coming
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: along the trail, and it'll shift from twenty five yards
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: to fifteen, so your shot is going to be fifteen
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: yards away. And then I'll uh, you know, film the approach, entrance,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: exit and detailing. Uh you know how to to add
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: be if there's not enough cover there, I use I
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: use artificial Christmas trees. Um, I use you know. Bring again,
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: you can cut trees that are close to your stand
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: and hinge cut them and drop them to close you
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: in and so forth and again explain everything how I
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: do it and why I do it, so that you
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: can you can enter the stand with the most advantageous
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: wind direction silently and then wait wait until it's prime.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: Until that is like right now, I'm I'm in Maine. Um.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: And the reason I'm in Maine, that's the first time
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: I've been back here for I don't know, in the
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: fall fold for forty years or something. I can't even
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: remember the last time. But I had some medical tests
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: I had to do and so forth, and which I
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: had four tests. I passed them all without even studying anyway.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: I had the I had the tests, and everything was cool.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: But I thought, I want The main reason I decided,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: which you know, to come it was I it would
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: be less tempting for me to you know, go into
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: some of my areas, and I'll try to keep out
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: of my prime areas until everything is prime, which is
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: usually you know, the third week in October. And then
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: about the the of October UM, you'll have some you know,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: cooler weather and maybe some frosts and again depending on
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: where you are in the country and so forth, and
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: and the deer will start to move better. And and
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: in other words, I'm of the belief that if if
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: you hunt an area for the entire month of October,
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: um uh, you know, which is tough for me, not
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: too because I love the hunting aspect of it, but
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: I'll go someplace else and you know, check out new
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: areas or you know, keep my prime areas you know,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: until everything is prime and and and you know, you'll
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: you'll see because they're undisturbed, you'll see you know, a
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: lot more um activity with mature you're dealing with you know, older,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: but you're animals and um, they're not going to tolerate that,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: uh disturbance time after time after time, during during before
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: things get prime and stuff. I mean, you'll you'll bump
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: them out of Are you mentioned the smart hunting? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: you mentioned. You mentioned that you're paying attention to the
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: dates of the calendar as far as when you're gonna
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: start moving into your better places. So you said later
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: October you'll start going into it, which which sounds you know,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: very similar to what to what we're doing. As well.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: You mentioned you sometimes they're looking for those cold fronts. Um,
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: But are there any other factors that trigger for you that, hey,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: there should be increased deer movement, I'm going to move
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: into my good stuff. I mean, there's a lot of
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: guys that talk about bare metric pressure or the moon
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: or different things on those lines. Do you pay attention
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: to anything yeah, um, but it's it's to me, I've
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: always been a believer, and you know, in the moon
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: et cetera. I mean it's obvious. I mean it affects
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: the tides and and you know, crime rates full moons.
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: You know, the cops and are always complaining that that's
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: you know, that high crime rates and so that there's
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: there's obviously a science behind it. But my philosophy used
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: to be that I didn't want to, um, go by
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: the primo times. In other words, if you if if
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: I went to bed at night and I look at
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: the moon faces and charts and stuff for tomorrow, and
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: I said, oh, it doesn't it doesn't get prime till
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: nine thirty in the morning, Well I could just sleep
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: in tomorrow. I think I'll just sleep in, you know,
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: and getting the stand at a thirty or whatever. And no, no, no,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean again, I want to I want
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: to be out there as much as I possibly can
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: without disturbing the area and as long as everything is fine,
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: you know. In other words, if a big buck walks by,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: he wasn't supposed to come by to you know, to
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: prime time with nine thirty. But it's you know, it's
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: it's eight fifteen, and there he is, you know, you know, um,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: you know, But what I'm getting at is, I used
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: the philosophy is of of um, you know, hunting as
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: much as puts in many hours as possible, you know,
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: into the prime situation. But anyway, Um, this last year
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: I met Adam Hayes, who is uh, you know, a
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: great guy, and we became friends and and he is uh,
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: he makes cells or whatever those basis his entire uh
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: success on what he refers to as the red moon
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: on the moon page. And he's not he I don't know,
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: you're probably familiar with him, but you can google up.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: It's a moon guide. But anyway, um, and the man
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: has killed ten boone and Crockett Bocks, you know, with
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: the bow, and that's his main you know, mode of
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: of hunting is within the position of the mood, not
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: necessarily not necessarily the moon face. And again he's pretty
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: much convinced me that there's and I knew there was
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: something going on there, but as I said, it's I'm
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: looking forward to trying that this year. I'm just going
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: to keep um whatever I want to say, notes or
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: keep records on on you know what I'm seeing at
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: the times I'm supposed to be seeing it and stuff
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: like that. But as I said, I just don't want
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: to become dependent on only hunting um when you know
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to be prime I hunt. In fact, it's
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: pretty embarrassing how much I hunt. UM. In fact, the
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: state Iowa, I don't know, Um, did they ever send
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: you guys? Did that? Uh? There was a trappers association
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: where you're supposed to list how many hours you're in
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: a tree stand and how many buckstoes, fawns, you know,
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: coons and skunks and possums, everything is saw you know.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: And anyway, they sent that to me for I don't know,
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: five or six years, and I kept, you know, great
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: records on it and stuff. But at the end of
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: the season, I don't know if they might not have
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: even believed me. But anyway, I I average over three
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: hundred hours in a tree stand, you know, I mean
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: just and that again I don't gun hunt. UM. This
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: this is this. This was just between October one and
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: like December one, you know, so basically two months, you know,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: I I averaged over three hours in a tree standing,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: you know, in October and November. So that tells you something.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I must have been a very helpful citizen
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: scientist for them. Yeah right, So yeah, anyway, I want
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: to change up the flow of this just one second here.
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: You've kind of hunted all over the place. Do you
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: have a favorite state or favorite area of a state
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: that you that you always, I guess not necessarily go
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: back to, but maybe go back to in your mind
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: and say, hey, man, I really loved hunting there. Uh yeah,
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: But as I said earlier, everything's in the timing right now.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: I mean I live in you know, if where I
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: want to be more than anywhere. I mean, I absolutely
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: and that's why I live their type of thing. But
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: I mean I could look back at the old days
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: and it's not always just about the hunting. It's a
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: lot of times it's the camaraderie and you know, the
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: camp or the you know, the situation or I mean
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: there's things like that that. Uh Like when I lived
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: in Montana, I used to in the late season, um
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: in Monton with January. Basically, I don't know, it's for years.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: I mean I remember ten twelve years in a row.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: I used to go to Alabama, or I mean one
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: year I hunted Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia. Um, I can't remember.
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: It seemed like it was four or five of them.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 1: But anyway, my point is when I go down in
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: the South and hunt, there was the Palmdez and you know,
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: I mean Spanish moss. It was totally yeah, it was
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: white tails, but it was totally different, you know, and
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: Texas or you know, versus versus Montana versus the Midwest
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: and stuff. Each one had something that was different. And
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the diversity and the terrain and stuff
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: like that. And yeah, you're probably not going to shoot
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: as big a buck in Alabama as you're gonna shoot
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: maybe in Montana. But in the same respect, it was
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: you know, it was a lot of fun, especially and
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: if you you know, if you had friends and you know,
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: two or three buddies would fly in and you know, let's, uh,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: you know, let's go here for a week and and
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: plus the peak of the rutting and in the South
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: a lot of the the like in Texas in December
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: and Alabama it was the third week in January. I mean,
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean they were running around crazy. And
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: the book you know, I mean books, you know, chasing
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: does and grunting and make and scrapes, and I mean
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: the Topeka, the Rutten. It's a third week in January
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: type of thing, you know. But anyway, as I said, um,
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: as far as favorite places, there are a few places
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: that used to be good but aren't anymore. Um. And
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: there's other places that you know, are still good, but
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: they've changed. I mean, it blows me away how much
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: I'm seventy three now, and you know, I go back
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: to places that I hunted when I was a kid,
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: I mean a teenager type of thing, and it I mean,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: there's one place when we were lived back in Vermont,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: we had a farm in upper New York State that
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: we used to go to all the time. And I
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: went back there a few years ago, and this was
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: a cultivated alfalfa field where the farmer used to you know,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: cut the alfalfa and would buck the bails and throw
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: them up on the wagon and all this stuff. And
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: now that alfalfa field they let the farmer died and
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: you know, um and let it go back. I mean,
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: and it hasn't been cultivated alfalfa for I don't even know,
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: I mean sixty years, you know, and it's timber. I mean,
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: it's absolute. What used to be a field is now timber,
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: you know type of thing. And as I said, it
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: just it's unbelievable. My biggest buck I killed in in
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: uh Montana in nineteen seventy six, and there used to
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: be a logging road there. I was just talking to
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: somebody about this the other day. There used to be
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: a logging road there. And I was actually jogging, actually
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: how long ago. I don't jog that much anymore, but jog.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: I was running down this this skid road, you know,
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: and I ran right into the buck. And he was
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: standing and a it was a recently planted clear cut
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: with little you know, the little soft woods that they
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: planted were probably two three ft tall, you know. And
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: I saw him and I stopped and I backed right
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: out and I went back and eventually I killed him
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: and stuff. But anyway, a couple of years ago I
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: went back there and hear what happened. Well, two couples
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: of things the road that I was running in are on.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: They pulled put they dropped that broad out dose or
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: in or something put giant boulder, I mean bouldered aside
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: of the volkswagon set it in the middle of the
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: road and then so nobody could get through there. And
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: then the trees that were two and three feet tall
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: are now fifty sixty feet tall, and the road completely regenerated,
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: and you know, chaplings the roads not even there anymore,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: you know. So I went in. I thought I was
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: just going to go into the tree I killed that
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: book out of and you know, and you know, for
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: sentimental you know, just for just to see it again
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: type of thing, and I couldn't even find it. I
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: mean it was you know, I mean it had changed
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: so drastically type of things. So as I said, yeah,
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of things that like that
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: that that you know, you would like to go back,
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: but unfortunately you're going. But that's why I tell guys,
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: you know, they need to. Um. I used to keep logs,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: you know, I write everything down and you know, like
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: a diary type of thing, and they were great. But
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: I I did that for decades and I lost one
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: in a flood and one on a fire. And anyway,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: one my point is, um that nowadays, with the technology,
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, what I wouldn't love, you know, to have
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: I mean I would love to have videos or you know,
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: films or whatever of my dad sitting down telling me stories,
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: or or even better, okay, here's that bear I shot
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: in New York in nineteen fifty three, you know, or
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: whatever type of thing. So again for our families, for posterity,
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, record some of his stuff at the end
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: of the season, you know, sit down and set up
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: a camera and it. Yeah, it feels funny. Talk to
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: yourself and think about how much your family is gonna
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: appreciate and enjoy this. It's like this footage I'm putting together,
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: you know, from it's over fifty years of footage and
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: so forth, and a lot of it's poor quality compared
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: to the great stuff that they make these days. But
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: it wasn't meant for production. But it's still neat to look,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I got, you know, um footage
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: of me when I had a full head of hair
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: and with a hundred pounds you know, and that's awesome. Anyway,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: it's it's gad. I was just gonna say, um, speaking
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: of kind of memory lane and looking back at some
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: of those great memories. Um, I've recently read a couple
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: of your stories of special memories. Back in the last
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: couple of decades about your hunts for a specific buck. Um.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: I read a story about your hunt for a buck
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: name Hurley, heard a story of of your brother's hunt
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: for a buck. I think if you guys were hunting
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: this buck named Woody m So, it sounds like you've
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: you've had some experience targeting these specific bucks. I was
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: just curious if you could walk us through how you
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: go about learning and hunting one specific deer, because that's,
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: you know, selfishly, that's something I'm doing this year, and
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for any advice I can get to to
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: have more success of that. Well, you know, and that
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: is a situation that whatever you want to say, it's unique,
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: meaning if you're hunting a specific buck in an area
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: that there's a multitude of other guys hunting the same turf.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: You know, Um, let's say it's you know, mast or state,
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: state land or you know, open public public hunting and
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: so forth, you don't know what, you have no control
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: over who's in there, etcetera. And if he's being disturbed,
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: so that some of that is really tough type of thing.
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: But when I develop a relationship with a specific animal,
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: um uh, it's it's basically means more to me. I normally,
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: you know, we'll we'll pick an animal out and say, okay,
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: this one's two and a half years old, but he's
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: got great potential. And I don't I don't try to
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: try not to shoot a deer. Unlet's see. I get
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: a kick out of the guys on television saying, oh yeah,
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: he's fully matured. He's or he's he's maturity stree and
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: a half. You know, Well he's not. I don't even
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: consider four and a half fully mature. I don't think
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 1: a deer is fully mature until he's five and a half.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: All right. So I'll pick, for example, a buck that
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: lives behind my house, and I'll say, okay, that one
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: is two and a half. You know, I remember last
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 1: year I saw him and he you know, with a
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: three way three or whatever, you know, in a year
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 1: and a half, Okay, he's got some good Okay, two
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: and a half, he's you know, he's a five by
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: four or whatever, you know, and oh man, he's you know,
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: he's got some non typical flavor. They're coming out, you know,
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: And I'll watch him grow, you know, and as hard
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: as it is, and as I said, this new video
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing out. I've got footage of me passing up
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: Boone and Crockett Bucks at fifteen yards because I knew
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: they were only four and a half, you know. And
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: in the one instance a poacher shot him. We found
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: him dead with a small caliber bullet in his chest,
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: and the other the other instance, they never saw him again.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, he disappeared, and I have no idea what
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: happened to him. But my point is that then there's others.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: There's many like that to disappear, but there's others that
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: you will watch, and Hurley was one of those. When
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: I when I first missed him, I think, I mean,
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: you're testing my memory. I don't remember he was six
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: six and a half or seven and a half. But
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: I ended up shooting him when he was nine and
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: a half. But the two years prior to when I
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: killed him, when he was eight and seven and a half, okay,
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: same deal. I lost control. Um, I had a real
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: bad wind, and the farmer told me he saw him.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: He was, you know, bedded down with the dough and
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: I was scared out in the middle of a field
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: and and anyway, and this big buck walked by the
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: next day and I lost control and I shot, you know,
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: I got him that not the one I wanted, but
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: another one. And then the following year the same thing.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: You know, I was saving my tag, you know, for Hurley,
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: and I had it was a boone and Crockett four
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: by four, you know, walked up fourteen guards broadside and
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: stopped and looked the other way, and I lost him
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: roll on that one too, And then I after I
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: filled my tag, I saw Hurley was at five times
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: I think it was. You know, um, he said I
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: didn't have a tag, so as I said, that just
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: adds to the desire and so forth. But multiple years,
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: I mean from when he's you know, five and a half,
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: six and a half, seven a half eight. Now you
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: put all those pieces of the puzzle together and you're
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: able to decipher a pattern type of thing. And that's
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: why I got so much satisfaction out of, you know,
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: finally getting that bucket nine and a half. I put
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: all the pieces in it. All of a sudden one
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: day it hit me, I mean, right between the eyes
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: type of thing, and you know absolutely that's what he's doing.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: He's making a circuit, coming up off of this ridge
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: and crossing this fence right here at this low spot,
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: and he's walking on this little finger here, and he
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: goes down and he follows that finger down, he crosses
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: that bottom. He goots up on that hill and he
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: lays up there with the south when it is back,
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: and he makes it. And when he gets up out
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: of his bed, he comes down on this cricket, goes
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: out to the It's a big circuit in the food source,
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: you know, from the betting area to the defeating area
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: and back to the bedding area. And I put the
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: stand in there, and sure enough he did exactly what
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: I knew he was going to do a type of thing.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: And that that's what, as I said, that is what
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: gives me so much satisfaction. I do stuff sometimes, and
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: I even hesitate telling people because I think people tend
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: to think I'm lying, and you know, I mean, but
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: I'm not. And you know, it's like the book, you know,
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: Once upon the Once upon a Time that I wrote.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's more like hunting stories. But that I
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: hesitated writing that book because guys wouldn't believe. I mean,
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: this stuff can't all happen to one guy. But hey,
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: it's the truth, you know. I mean, but I've been
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: you know, tree by grizze and charged by lions and
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: falling off the cliffs. And I mean I got charged
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: by two Farrell hogs twice in the same day. I
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: had to kill him in hand to hand combat. You know,
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: buff you gotta buffed arm out of that deal. I
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: had black bomb was I had hippo charge, you know,
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: stuff like you know, it is a't normal, but you know,
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: but that's I guess just because of the saturation factor.
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: But anyway, there's this buck I called I named him
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: be nine, and I've got the footage and it's on
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: the new video. And you know, he walked by. He
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: stopped at ten yards and he had I had his
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: shed from the year before and his G two He
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: was just four by four, but a G two was
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: thirteen and uh five sixteen, and then the year before
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: he shed, okay, and then the year I passed him
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: up is G two. It's probably fourteen inches that year.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: But he had a rate between his front legs on
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: his brisket. He had a tumor the size of a watermelon.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: And as I said, he was ten in factory. He
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: was ten yards when I was selling him. And then
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: he he ultimately walked right underneath me and cut my
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: track when I came in, and you know, busted out
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: of there. But I passed him up because he had
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: this tumor. And then a year later, almost to the day,
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: I had him pattern good, almost to the day. Here
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: he comes back and I had the same stand and
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: I filmed them. He came up to this little cedar
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: tree and he rubbed it on video for seven minutes
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: straight and he just shredded this poor little tree. And
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: then finally, and it was in pretty intense because finally
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: he stepped out, you know, and I and I plugged
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: him and you know, and I got him and stuff,
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: you know, But the tumor had on his chest what
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: was the side of a watermelon was now it was
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: a scab, I don't know, probably four inches long and
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: two inches wide. And I think what happened is the
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: tumor got so big he when he jumped across a
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: barbed wire fancy lanced the tumor and it just drained,
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: you know type of thing, and it came, you know,
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: formed a scabb there where it had been cut and
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 1: healed and everything. But anyway, he was fine and stuff
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: and so forth. But as I said, I passed him
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: up one year and then you know, kept that because
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: of the tumor. And then the next year to tumor
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: was gone, and I went ahead and and shot him again.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: I hesitate telling people this stuff because nobody believed it,
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: but I, in fact it's on the film. I mean,
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: I walk up to him as I, you know, I
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: film shooting him. I take the blood drail, walk up
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: to him, find him and stuff, and then right in
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: front of his face is a I said, I'm found camera.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: I said, we've got going on here. And laying in
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: the leaves was one of those foil balloons, you know
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: that that you know it says happy I said. I
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: said to my brother, if it said get well quick,
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 1: I would have freaked out, you know, but it was anyway,
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: it was a happy birthday, you know, one of those
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: foil balloons, right. So, I think it was the next
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: day or two days later, one of my buddies in Michigan,
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: he calls and he says, hey, you ain't gonna believe this.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: He says, I got a deer the other day and
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: he says, uh, I walked up to it and he says,
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: laying right next to what was this foil balloon, you know,
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: and it's congratulating that, right. And uh. Two days later,
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: Mike Mitton, the guy that we made my buddy that
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: we made Primal Dreams with, he shot a hundred and
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: sixties somethings five by five in Illinois and he says, hey,
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: you're gonna believe this. I walked up to it. It
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: was one of those yellow smiley faces laying there. We're
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: thinking of letting loose a whole bunch more, you know,
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: you know those foil balloons and let them float around
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: for you guys type of thing. But three different guys,
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: three different states, all of us shooting deer and walk
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: up to him and there's a foil ballow and laying
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: next to him. So I don't know, that's crazy. You
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: can believe it or you can leave it alone. Promise.
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: That's pretty wild. So my one final question on the
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: topic of of hunting the specific bucks, and it's interesting
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: you kind of mentioned this with Hurley. How what I
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: noticed is that a lot of the things we've talked
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: about all throughout this conversation all came together for you
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: to be able to kill that deer. So you talked
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: about how you finally realized after watching him and observing
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: him and collecting all these data points learning this pattern.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: You learned how he used the terrain, and you put
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 1: that information together with how you understand how terrain works
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: and how the wind, and then you took those data
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: points by being attention By being attentive to those micro details,
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: you then were able to put your stand in the
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: right location. Um. The final piece of that puzzle, though
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: I think at least I imagine this happened while you
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: were hunting him, was balancing your pressure. So knowing when
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: to hunt him and or when to try to learn
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: more so, how to get the information, whether it be
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: moving trail cameras or when you're scouting, or when you're
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: actually hunting him. How do you balance getting that information
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: and or hunting with the fact that you don't want
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: to go in there so much to spook that buck.
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: Because when you're hunting only one deer, if you've spooked
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: that one dear, you're you're your hunt, your season, your
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: goal is done. So how do you balance that? Yeah,
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of times it's nothing but a gamble. Um.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: I've said, you know, as I said, I try to
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 1: set up the situation so that um I can but
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: surprise him, you know, or ambush him, and he doesn't
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: have a clue. And let me say this that as
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: far as like um um dear dear. In other words,
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 1: guys will say, and I'm of the opinion this is
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: this is true, and I hardly ever ever do it.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: But if you hunt a stand on Monday, you know,
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 1: it'll be say it's good, and the Tuesday it's not.
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: It will say Monday is great, Tuesday's good, Wednesday is
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: almost fair. All right, it's gonna get worse each time.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: But if you've got if it's the prime stand, and
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: it depends on the time of the year, in other words,
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: if you've got in early November, if you hunt a
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: stand Monday and don't see the buck that you want,
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: you can hunt that again, as long as you didn't
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: disturb the area and didn't disturb him, and it's still
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: you know, optimum uh conditions. You can hunt that more
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: that same stand two or even three days in a row.
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: Because the deer year after on Tuesday, Monday, he was
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: two miles away, you know, on another ridge or another
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: farm or whatever. So he doesn't know that. But if
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 1: but if it's a smaller area and you're saturated and
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: you're going to spook him and so forth. But as
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: I said, it kind of depends on the situation. And
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: Hurley was an example of that because I knew I
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: saw him go through there was a little hole in
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: his fence, and I thought, but there was not a
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: good tree there. So I went in and I put
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: this stand up. After the third time I saw him
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: go through that in that that area type of thing,
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: so I knew it was in his pattern type of thing.
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: All right. I went in and I put the stand
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: up and I set everything up, and there was the
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: same thing. It's hard to explain, but there was an
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: area where I dropped the tree. It was a big
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: it was a dead tree on the ground. I didn't
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: actually cut it down, but it was a dead tree
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: on the gat ground and I drug it over and
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: laid it at an angle to shift him over towards
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: a little bit closer towards me. Type of thing, and
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: that first neck that that next day, after I said it,
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: I needed a southwest wind. Southwest wind that you know
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: was predicted for that day. And as I said, don't
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: hold me to the facts. I can't remember for sure.
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: But if I remember, it was like thirty four degrees,
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: it was. It was the last day of October and
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: it was thirty four degrees, all right. I snuck into
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: that stand, climbed it four light and I sat at
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 1: all day and I can't remember it was in It
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 1: seems like I saw thirty five deer and seven of
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: them were racked bucks, all right, But I did not
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: see hurly, all right. But the conditions were absolutely prime,
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: and hardly anything knew I was there. I didn't get busted.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: You know. They were running around because of the cold snap.
• 2:10:36
  Speaker 1: The bucks are ready to those weren't They were just
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: chasing all over the place. It was absolutely fantastic day
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: of hunting. Okay. So then the next day was November one.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 1: But that night that that cold front blew through, and
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: the November one, all right, I don't remember what it
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: was like sixty fifty six degrees and the morning and
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 1: I remember, um, I shot early at eight thirty seven,
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: if I remember right, And he was the first deer
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: I saw eight thirty seven. The day before had already
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 1: seen twenty deer type of thing, you know, And what
• 2:11:15
  Speaker 1: the front blew through, you know. But and it warmed
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: up and he came walking through. Uh there was nowhere
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: near the activity and so forth, and he came walking
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 1: through all by himself, and he did exactly what I
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 1: wanted him to do. And you know, I made this.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: In fact, I really I kind of messed messed up
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: because I had the camera right there mounted next to me,
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: and I saw him coming and I hud, I hit record,
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: and I saw it the red light go on, so
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: I knew I was filming. And when I took my
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 1: sum off the camera, apparently I double punched it or something,
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 1: but I shut the camera down and said, of turn
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 1: it on, and I didn't get I didn't get to
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: kill on film type of thing. But anyway, that that
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: day had ended up getting up to I think it
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: was eighty one that day, you know, So it went
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: from whatever I said, thirty thirty four degrees one day
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: to eighty one the next, and it was it was
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: just a matter of, you know, staying there because I
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: knew it was right. In other words, there was no
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: place I could go or wanted to go that was
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 1: any better. And because he didn't show up on Monday,
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: you know that instead of thinking maybe he'll show up, Tuesday.
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: You think, you know, he's more likely to show up
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: on two s because he didn't show up on Monday.
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: Type of thing you're you're getting closer to. I mean,
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: he's going to come by sooner or later type of thing.
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: So as long as you're not disturbing the area, go
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 1: ahead and go for it and stuff. Same thing. I
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 1: think I ranged away from the answer. What was the answered?
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: What was a question? Again? Well, no, I think I
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: think you covered it there. It was. It was just
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: kind of wondering about how you balance the pressure of
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: you know, getting after him and learn about him, but
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: then also not overpressuring him and blowing him out of
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: the area. Um, So I think you spoke to you
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: spoke to a couple of different elements there that that
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: makes sense. So many we have We've kept you for
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: a very long time here, and what I've learned, I've
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: learned a lot. But one thing I've definitely learned is
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 1: that I probably need to sit down with you for
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: weeks on end and talk to you because there's so
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 1: much here to take in and so much the process
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: you are you have Just I don't mind it as
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 1: long as it's season. You know, My biggest problem is
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: the timing and stuff. You know, I mean I, UM,
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 1: I've always got stuff that I'm supposed to do or
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: trying to do or need to do or whatever type
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: of thing, you know. And as I said, I, um,
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: after I bring up oh I and I I can't
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: even remember if I if I said this, But after
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: this video comes out making another one on technique, strategy
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 1: and techniques in other words, how and I'll go into
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 1: an area and film, Okay, this is we need to
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 1: stand here, this is why. This is how I'm going
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: to do it. And I've actually started it. Um, you know,
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: I've got little pieces and stuff that, in other words,
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: walk the viewer through how my thinking, why I'm doing
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: something a certain way, and you know, how I do
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: it and set it up and um, you know, set
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 1: up the ambush and then get out and wait until
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 1: it's primetime and don't go in and disturb it and
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: mess it up. And do your scouting in the off
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 1: season so that you can see the difference, you know,
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: in other words, predicting, um, how they're going to move
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: when there's no foliage on a you know, no understory,
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: and there is in you know, in October and there's
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: not in November, etcetera dep thing, you know. So it's again,
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: I just I want to share this stuff so that
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 1: the kids, the youth of you know, will get more
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: uh more fun. And plus it's number number one setting
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: up the situation so it's close, you know, for fifteen
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: yards shot, you're gonna it's gonna help the the wounding rates.
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: Meaning you know, a guy, you know, I mean I
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: I have always have been under the impression and again
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: I don't gun hunt. I don't care what the next
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: guy does. But I've been always under the impression that
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 1: most bow hunters are better hunters than gun white til
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: you know, gun hunters, because in other words, just the
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 1: ranged limitation of the equipment in your hands. Meaning if
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: you're sitting on a stand with a rifle and a
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 1: big buck steps out at fifty yards, if you've got
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: the gun within ten seconds, it's over. Whereas if you're
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: bow hunting, because of the limited range and your weapon,
• 2:15:55
  Speaker 1: you're at fifty yards, you might not even get shot.
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: And because of that, you are learning. You're watching this
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: this social activity between the deer and you know how
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: they're they're chasing, and you know he went over and
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: he rubbed that tree and made that scrape and now
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 1: he's doing this and you learn and watch the patterns
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: and so forth. So it's a it's part of the
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: fun of it and stuff, you know. So I just
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: told you know, you you say to these kids, you know,
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, um, if they really really love it, not
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: only does it is a great bonding between father and
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 1: son and you know, brothers or whatever it may be,
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: but it just means so much more to you know planet,
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 1: you know the strategy, you know, think about why you
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 1: want to do certain things and and have it happen
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: and get the animal rather than their buddy who just
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 1: blasted the deer out of the window to pick up
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: down the road type of thing. You know. So anyway,
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: like I said, I just I wanted to hand some
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: of the the ideas and techniques down to the younger
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 1: guys and and hope to you know, when I flipped
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: the ball to him, no run with it. So for these, uh,
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: these DVDs which sound like they're gonna be really interesting
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: and helpful, when can people expect these to be out?
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: And where can they go online to find more about
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: the DVDs? Or your books? Are all the different things
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: that you and your brother are producing. We have um
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 1: our Brothers of the Bow www. Www. Brothers of the
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: Bow dot com our website, and there's DVDs and books
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: and so forth on there. Um and uh as I said,
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: there's free reading and you know, all kinds of stuff.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 1: But my point is there's new stuff that is being produced.
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: I've got the one, and it's just coincidental. And the timing. UM.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: The editor that's editing mind right now. He he builed
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 1: me last night and he said, I really would like
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 1: to get this done in November, you know, so that
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: you can have it for the holidays type of thing.
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 1: So we're probably ninety some percent done on it, and
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: basically as of yesterday we were designing the cover of
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: the sleeve and the wording and the pictures and um.
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: In fact, I got a picture. He's got one picture
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 1: of me kneeling behind a spike horn that I shot
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 1: in Vermont with the bow in nineteen sixty four, and
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 1: then another picture right next to it of me kneeling
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: with another big buck you know, that I literally shot
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 1: fifty years later. You know, type of thing. I got
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: a little bit better in my older age. It was
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 1: more than a spike horn. But but anyway, they're gonna
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: be available on our wed and then I'm going to
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: I'll probably I'll put it on the various you know,
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 1: um our three websites and BBS and drag Gang and
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 1: both both site and stuff like that. I'll make the
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 1: announcement that they're ready. In fact, I really don't know.
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 1: As I said, I've got seven hours edited down, and
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 1: I was originally trying to put it on to ninety
• 2:19:24
  Speaker 1: minute discs so to be three hours long, and now
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to cut anything short, so
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 1: we might end up I haven't asked them how much
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the total time you know, adds up to,
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 1: but I might end up having to put to one
• 2:19:42
  Speaker 1: hour discs in one sleeve and then another you know,
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: like volume one and another volume two or two one hour,
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 1: so it would be four hours rather than And as
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: I said, there's all kinds of chapters on bear hunting
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 1: and both fishing and techniques and how I practice and
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm and all kinds of stuff like that
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: that that uh, I'm sure everybody will will really enjoy.
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: But it's going to be a matter of um it's
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 1: either gonna be three hours or or you know, with
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: two discs and one sleeve or two different sleeves volume
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: one volume. But anyway, I'll make the announcement not and
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 1: you know I'm planning on you know, putting some mats
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 1: in the magazines and and and um hopefully Yeah. So
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, whenever it comes out, we'll be
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: sure to share it with the listeners and the audience
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: and make sure that they know where to go, because
• 2:20:37
  Speaker 1: I think there'll be a lot of people that after
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 1: hearing this conversation, they're gonna want They're gonna want to
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: be able dig deeper into some of the things we
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: touched on, and it sounds that these DVDs are perfect.
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: So I'll make sure that I was gonna say, I
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: don't know about okay, what do you say something about
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 1: a link or TLL. I was just gonna say, I'll
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 1: make sure to have links to all of these things
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: that people can go to our website and all link
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 1: back to yours. See. Um, that's where I'm I really,
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not good at I mean, I am not I'm
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: what they call a low tech guy instead of high tech.
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't everybody last I still use a
• 2:21:09
  Speaker 1: flip phone, you know. I mean, I just I've never
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: sent a text in my life. You know. Again, I've
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 1: just I'm a little bit like it's somewhat embarrassing. I'm
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 1: kind of behind times. But but anyway, my point is that, hum,
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: I'll try to make it, you know, and uh, you
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 1: know known and so forth, and we'll go from there.
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: And as I said, if anybody wants to my email address,
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: it's just it's very once a little hotmail dot com
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, those those are probably the best ways
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: to get a contact with me. But as I said,
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 1: if if anybody you know needs information, just to email
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 1: me at very once a litt hotmail dot com and
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 1: I'll eventually get back to him and so forth. But
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 1: I won't be back to Iowa until Saturday, so um,
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: and then you know, if I leave for a week,
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 1: it takes me too to catch up. So um. This
• 2:22:05
  Speaker 1: is the time of year where a lot of I
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: put a lot of stuff on the back burner because
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 1: it's it's time and it's that time to get in
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 1: the tree. So I think, on that note, on that note,
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 1: I should let you go so you can get whatever
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: preparations done. Yeah, We want to really thank you Barry
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: for taking the time to do this and sharing so
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 1: much insight. And when is this going to be broadcaster?
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 1: Are we doing it? A lot? We did? You already
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: do it? I don't even know right well, it's not
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: it's not live right now, but the listeners right now
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 1: are at right now. But yeah, well it'll be. He'll
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 1: be out in two days. Okay, we'll give me send
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 1: me an email and let me know when I can
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: download it and listen to myself talk. I will absolutely
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: do that, Barry, and and thank you so much, and
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 1: good luck you guys. Have you guys have a safe season,
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 1: and and I hope you get the big one. Thank
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: you so much, you too, And that's a rap. This
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 1: was our longest episode, I'm pretty sure. So thank you
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 1: for sticking along with us for the entire episode. I
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 1: hope you found it interesting and helpful. I know there
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: was a lot. There might be one of those episodes
• 2:23:12
  Speaker 1: you need to go back to and listen again, maybe
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 1: take notes, listen to certain sections, smart kind of break
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 1: it up. Um, lots taken, but good stuff. So thanks
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 1: for listening, and big thank you to our partners at
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: Sitka Gear Yetie Cooler's, Matthews Archery, Mayven Optics, the White
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: Tailed Institute of North America, Trophy Ridge and Hunt terror maps,
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 1: and finally, thank you all for listening, thanks for being
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 1: a supporter and a member of the wired hunt community.
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 1: If you're getting out in the wood soon, I wish
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: you luck, shoot straight, be safe, and until next time,
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 1: stay wired to Hunt.