Latest / Big Talk About Small Business / Ep. 112 - From Niche To Exit: Building A Sellable Business

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Ep. 112 - From Niche To Exit: Building A Sellable Business · Big Talk About Small Business

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this whole ladder step of this normal process that people are seeing.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: And now you have professional buyers coming in trying to buy your company and they're going to freaking destroy and make you feel like you have no value in the company.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: But to your point, the value of my business today is not what the potential of the value of the business is.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, everybody.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: We are back in the studio.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's another episode of Big Talk about Small Business.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to be in the studio with my partner in crime here, Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Eric Howerton.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: So he looks very studious and dirty.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, with studio, those glasses, I think.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: If you now if you continue to look over the top of them, like this.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, their readers, I'm gonna think you're my wife.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know how she does that.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Sonny's been doing that since.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: She gets over, she looks over those glasses like, man, I'm in trouble.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I always tell her, oh boy, okay.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh that that looking over the glasses thing.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: I've got the progressive readers.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're clear up top.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: See, I can't do those.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: And they're readers below.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can't do it.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's fantastic.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Makes me nauseous.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: I just ordered a new pair here.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um so with higher magnification.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: But uh no, it's great to be here.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Today we're gonna talk about cashing out the value in your business.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Love this topic.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of the to me, that's the prime uh differentiator of entrepreneurial businesses versus just a small business.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: The entrepreneurial venture is designed to allow the owner to cash out.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, your your ambition is to grow this thing so that you can get some sort of exit.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: And move on to the next thing, right?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because life's too damn short to do the same thing for your whole life.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it becomes boring and monotonous.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's time.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and there's more things you can do.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: You have ideas in your brain.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's why I'm on wife number three.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm just kidding.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: The same well, you just said the same applies to you for women.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Tessa, I shouldn't say that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, you shouldn't.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I say that to her, she goes, Don't forget you're number two for me.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: Dang.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, life does get boring um when you do the same thing for too long.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Even if you can make a lot of money at it.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: I I just, you know, people are always surprised, like, why would you get rid of that?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because I want to do something else.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Getting boring, man.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's other stuff to do.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got we gotta be able to cash out.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and I think a lot of small business owners don't really realize the opportunity that exists for them if they do the right thing.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: They can have their cake and eat it too, meaning make a good living along the way and have the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: They're not mutually exclusive.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's worth expressing here.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: A true entrepreneur sees a a need for the market, right?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: If your ambition is to build something and get cash because you want the money, you're not on the right path.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like that you but you should be able to see the need in the market and have responsibility to say, okay, if I grow this thing, who could potentially buy this from me?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: So they can continue it on.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_03: I get some some kiz ash.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then I go find another need in the market.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times it happens where you end up doing the same type of thing again.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, which once your non-competes are over with.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't happen all the time.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen it happen all the time with entrepreneurs.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've I told you I know a guy that literally started his business, sold it, worked out his non-compete, started a business again, sold it, worked on us non-compete, started it again, sold it for the third time, and I talked to him a couple weeks ago, and you know what he's doing?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Starting again.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's waiting at his non-compete.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now the dude is 70 years old.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's because there's something invigorating about starting.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you get a lot of, there's a lot of honor and integrity out of that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it it's yeah, there is.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a lot of satisfaction.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: But but even more than that, I think it's kind of like a house.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the first house you build, you go, damn, I wish I'd have done that differently.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: So then you move on to the next one and you do that.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: You go, yeah, I learned a lot, but still I would have done A, B, and C.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: It allows you a chance to fix the mistakes that you made the first time around.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good analogy.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is really.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: And you're and by the way, you're enjoying building that house.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then you learn something, you enjoy building the next one.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: And you're and you get good at building a certain type of house.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because you refine it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: You refine it, but like you're not bored from building the house.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: You just don't.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think the just living in it forever is what you don't want to do.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's the boring part.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: You want to change the scenery.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: We've lived in 15 houses in the last 21 years.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: You moved more than anybody I've ever met in my life.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: But we get to buy new furniture and stuff.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same principle, yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because our cats and dogs are destroying it.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is it if there's an excuse?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: That one, the living room's different, the bedroom, whatever.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: I like it.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same, and you just do better and better over time.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, there is a pot of gold that could be there for you, but it's not necessarily there if you don't do the right things.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think some of the keys are to being able to build a company that you can exit from and extract some value?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I think the first I mean there's a lot of different keys.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, a lot of different ones.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean I think one of the first things I think comes to my mind is um what's the how do you what's the longevity of whatever market you're in, right?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then how big is that market?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think that you're my my philosophy has always been try to be a splinter in these a little little bit of the I call it the uh the skim underneath a big piece of fur.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: The market's a big piece of furniture.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Where I'm the shim, the shim underneath the leg.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: I just barely tilted up.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't want to be another dresser.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right, I got it.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Or a safe, right?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to slide underneath there and make things a little bit better in this big market.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's you're p you're feeling a niche, is what you're saying.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for lack of a better term.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Mile deep inch-wide niche.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, be excellent at something within a bigger place that and then you can kind of foresee down the road that this this little shim is going to be even more valuable a year or two years, five years from now, because no one's focused on fixing that little problem.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's just a little off-level.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: You you are a master of it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's the biggest thing is having some sort of vision about how you can help a bigger industry, yeah, you know, and be unique with that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, man, I I tell you another thing is is um, you know, having an idea about who you're gonna exit to.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: And having more than just one party.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, no kidding.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: So, like in the furniture example, yeah, it's not that there's only one player in that furniture.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, you're right.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: There's lots of players making dressers.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's right, that's right.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they all need a shim.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: They all need the shim, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: One of them needs it because they're starting out, another one needs it because they're polishing it up, and one needs because they're moving the furniture in, right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, the industry has more than just one big player.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen a lot of times people will say, What's your you know, they'll talk about who can you sell to?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, Well, we can definitely sell to banks.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like, okay, but who else?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, they don't even think about and so they just have their target on one thing, and so then they're not able to kind of navigate those different market sets.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's to be attractive to different ones.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: That makes a lot of sense.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think um, as you said, there's a lot of aspects of it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think having a really good crew of managers and people that have credibility that they could carry on if you're not there is something any smart buyer wants.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want a small business where every single decision goes through the owner.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's the worst kind of business to acquire as a buyer.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's uh nobody, you're the only the brain is gonna exit.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's the it's uh it's it the body's still there, but it it's not gonna function.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: You have to, you know, you have to, as a the entrepreneur, recognize that early on and start making moves way early on on how to incorporate other people.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you the way I do it a lot of times, if I'm talking to a client or a contact I know, yes, I bring in somebody else into the meeting with them.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's this trust, there's this relationship that I've got established between my connection and my person in my company.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you don't just then walk out and from then on they're dealing with that.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's a process.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I get it.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but they need every everybody, all of our clients need to build relationships within the company.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the people that are building relationships with need to care about the customers and the clients, right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's a huge deal to make that happen.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I said an example of that the other day where I was I was uh looking at buying a new truck, and oh I was over at Lewis Um Automotive Group and um, you know, which is a great company, and I and I um called Matt Lewis and he's like, Yeah, I'll come down to you know the lot right away.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna bring somebody with me, you know.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: And he brings the the guy down that he wants to introduce me to, and he hangs out down there with us for 10 or 15 minutes, and and he gave me a guy who I feel like I can work with.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: He made he just made the transition.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Most guys in Matt Lewis's job would be like, Are you kidding me?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I sell a thousand cars a month out of this place.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: This guy I know just wants me to come out there now.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: What the?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: I can't be bothered with that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I got 400 employees in this place.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right in here, New York texting them.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just called him, he picked up the phone and came down, you know.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's a yeah, you gotta make that transition.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta be um, you you've gotta have a good crew of people.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and that's important.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think another big thing is you really have to be very realistic and understanding about the revenue model.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because you can be sorely surprised.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you don't study that a little bit, and then in the early year you can start understanding how other acquisitions are happening in this space and how the valuations are.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a very tricky thing.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's a lot for a entrepreneur to understand and all that kind of stuff.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Fundamental in that, yeah, and the economics of that are growth rate.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: That is fundamental, of course, and recurring revenue streams.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the two things that buyers want.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: High growth rate, recurring revenue state.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Recurring revenue.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: The recurring revenue equals like it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's important to understand the the basics on that is that if it's like any, if you came and bought my business and I can tell you, hey, I have X amount thousands of dollars per right now.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it's going to happen every month over month over month.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm losing this little bit of this is my term rate.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm losing a very little at the bottom of the funnel.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, maybe I lose 5%, 10% on renewals or whatever.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly to be expected.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: But you can see my track record on how I've held on to the bottom.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: My bottom of the funnel is really narrow.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's a valuable business if it's growing.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then yes, now looking.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just starting to grow.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's I haven't even tapped into the market.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: We still got all this room to grow.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, tiny piece of a large market.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's the formula right there.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the form.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: But see, where a lot of small business owners don't get that is they think they don't need to grow that much.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's more important that I maximize my profitability.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Now, wait a minute.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: This business broker told me companies like ours are trading at six times EBIT.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean profitability is not important?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Six times historic EBIT or six times projected EBIT with a high growth rate discounted back to the present value.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it is, baby.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: It is, man.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a multiple of revenue.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because a bigger here's the thing.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people mistake that their exit should is only going to be like a VC or a private equity firm or some something.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, they're strategic buyers that are already in your business.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: And they're usually going to offer you a better thing if you are a shim with great recurring revenue, high growth rate in a very niche area.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: This bigger industry will buy you to absorb that.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason why Because they've got a bigger picture.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: They've got a bigger business.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: I can just add you.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I can add your service and product to my CRM and immediately capitalize on top of that.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's the strategic buyer.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's who you're most valuable to.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and so, yeah, that's that's got to be understood.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're absolutely right.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, to me, the worst buyer is a purely financial buyer.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: All they want to do is keep you out to the side.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're not integrating you with anything.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's no overarching strategy that you're part of.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you could be bought as a platform company, though, because they plan on you've got such a great grandma's recipe going that they'll want to roll other companies under you.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that can be great for an entrepreneurial founder because it's more resources.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: They can't pull that off on their own.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: The best valuation is one that's never really talked about.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: I call it a market valuation.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Where there is no EBITA and there is actually no 10 to 12 X multiple in revenue.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's a ridiculous amount.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's basically like to say it's like the market valuation to me is the best because it's like somebody driving by and saying, Oh, I like Mark Swagg's house.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's not on the market.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's not priced per square foot.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, I've been I'm gonna knock on your door.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: Hey man, are you interested in selling your house?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Hell no, I'm not.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I really want your house.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: By the way, I got some cash.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: So how about you take two million dollars for that?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, I don't even claim it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: How about three million dollars?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you want.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's the scenario.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: You it is you you capped it.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing is, is like any entrepreneur can do this.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: You just need to go, what am I doing?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: What market need am I fixing?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Am I fixing?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: How big of a deal is it if I fix this little problem?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because no one else can get to it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're too big.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: They're focused on other things.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: What you're not fixed, you know, again, I I think a lot of people they want to translate that that to invention, and it's not necessarily invention.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Chick-fil-A.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'll use them as an example.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: What a chick are there 15 gazillion freaking chicken places.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Every day I pick up my 14-year-old from high school.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, can we go buy um, you know, uh whatever slims, Chick-fil-A, uh what's the other one they all buy?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Canes, canes, she loves canes.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, they all buy this.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: But what Chick-fil-A did that the other people don't do is their drive-up line moves faster.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Super fast.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: They it's just like, and their people are all friendly and helpful, whereas so many places in fast food they're not.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: Figured out one one one big value proposition that the masses want to have within that chicken eating business.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: And there's and yeah, there's Chick-fil-A haters too that won't ever go in there for one reason or another.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's fine.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: We do love slim chickens, though.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: Tom Gordon was on here, he's got excellent, excellent kind of thing.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Personally, I slim's chicken, in my opinion, is far is better than Chick-fil-A any day of the week.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: I like their chicken.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: They do have good chicken.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's not overly breaded, it's always hot, it's always good quality.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: They do, and their mushrooms are fantastic.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: They actually have the best fried mushrooms you can get anywhere because they make them themselves.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're not frozen ones that they throw in a bag.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they pull out of a bag and throw in a fryer.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, so yeah, yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is important stuff.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing back on the multiples of eBit, though, that I d I've always argued people with people about I could have a company that does not make any eBit.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Are you telling me I'm worth zero?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Are you telling me I gotta pay you to take my business?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's the potential, people.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's the potential it represents.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody understood that better than Jeff Bezos.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, here's the thing is like this one of this morning's questions here, why waiting too long reduces your options.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think being too fast will reduce your options as well.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, because to your point, the potential.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you haven't demonstrated the potential enough yet.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: There is way too daggone much of no experienced entrepreneurs entering into the market with a specific desire to exit out.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: To get cashed out.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so what that does is it narrows their entire view of who would buy them down to financial reasons, which then narrows down their entire valuation to an emidah.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: And all this series A, series B, all this, you know, this whole ladder step of this normal process that people are seeing.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: And now you have professional buyers coming in trying to buy your company and they're going to freaking destroy and make you feel like you have no value in the company.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: But to your point, the value of my business today is not what the potential of the value of the business is.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so if you're an entrepreneur where you can see that value, yeah, then you're not going to even entertain selling your company until you get close to that value.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: And it's realized.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: You better be the one who can see the value.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what Bezos did.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: He's he told his investors it's going to be 20 years before this thing makes a profit.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: How can you, I mean, and he still sold sold tons of investment.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: But had he just had this mindset on selling his company as fast as possible?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: Or going down this ladder step journey.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, there's a there is a value we're going for.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're investing with me, we're going for this value.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: We're going for this vision.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: We're going for this vision.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're going for this vision.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: So back on um what you were saying though, um about uh uh multiples of eBIT and in um value in potential.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think um I think a lot of that comes down to have you created a brand for your thing.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's an intangible, yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's no question about it.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, but you can demonstrate that if you have a demonstrated loyal client base or customer base already that's rabid that says, I got a brand.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: That that the ones that buy anything that you come out with, that brand has a lot of value associated with it.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yep.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Especially if somebody else, like you said, is a strategic buyer that has other things they could put into the distribution channel of that brand.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they make their now the company you bought is selling the stuff that you have already.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great um scenario as well.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: And let me tell you, the person the company is gonna potentially buy you.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if they hear that a lot of the ways that they come to find out about you or they strike interest in you is because of the brand.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: You've been building a brand of where you've got excellent customer service, you don't fail your freaking clients, you have a great team.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, people love working with you, you deliver on what you say you're gonna deliver upon, and you have relationships across all kinds of clients and partners and things, they're gonna hear about this brand, yeah, that is something to start seeking you out.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there they I I know we're running low on time.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Two more things that I wanted to get back, I wanted to talk about.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: One is um back on the subject of getting out to uh waiting too long.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: When you wait too long, it's I'm sick, I got cancer, I'm going through a divorce, and I don't have the liquidity I need to buy out my spouse.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm too old to be credible to make the transition.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have anybody else there who I've developed.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, those are the reasons, those are the things that people do where they wait too long.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or I've been stagnant for 10 years, I've had no growth.
• 22:11
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• 22:12
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• 22:19
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• 22:21
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• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: And this business.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you're saying that those those those reasons like divorce, etc., are are causing them, those circumstances have caused them to wait too long.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: The they have waited so long that now they are going through a divorce or they're sick, and now they have to sell it fast.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna get the same value that they would get because they need to sell it.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's always a bad position.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: Not being not needing to sell is always a better place to be if you want to maximize your valuation.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: That that's that's one point I wanted to get across.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like having a nice hot rod that you keep clean.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: You keep it, I mean, you know, it's sharp, it's always well taken care of, and you drive it around and somebody walks up and wants it at that moment.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're always ready to sell.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: In a way, right?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like you don't have, I know we talk about going too early, but if you have your vision and you're building your brand, yeah, your brand's polished at all times because that's what you care about, that's why you're doing it, because you're you have you're seeking excellent reputation.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, you're right.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you're always available for sale.
• 23:44
  unknown: Yep.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because you always look good.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: And what you need is you need a buyer that can see the same thing that you're building without having for you to come tell them about what you're building to see it.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: We got a lot of crap backwards, I think, in this entrepreneurial this new startup ecosystem to where like I'm talking, like I need to do a pitch deck to prove to somebody that this is a valid idea in order for them to give me some money.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when as really, if I could see it and I build it, like you were talking about earlier in our last podcast.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's go sell something.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: I've sold it, I've demonstrated that it's a that's valuable.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: Make it where you're self-sufficient.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna prove through your own sales, your own customer base, your own brand, your own dedication, your relentless dogging mentality that this is successful.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's what's attractive.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the key.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then two other things, though, that I think are important to mention.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: One is dependence on one or very few customers is a problem when it comes to your value.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Businesses that have lots of customers are always more valuable than businesses that rely on one or two.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's just because it's too risky.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: The the risk is multiplied by that's called client concentration risk or customer concentration risk.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's one thing.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: The second thing is accounting.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Good numbers.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Non-negotiable, you gotta have it.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I again I had uh Taylor, I told you, in my class last night, they bought a lot of companies there at Farco.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, uh and all the companies you look at, I said, How many of them have good accounting?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: Numbers you can really trust.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: He just laughed.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like very few.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: They just don't.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's constant commingling of personal stuff.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's all kinds of bad accounting practices.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: All those things can hold you up on a sale.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, big time.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: The best thing is to have a history of audited financials if you can afford it.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's expensive.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: But good accounting, not commingling your personal stuff in there, not having a lot of things you got to explain away.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: Another thing on top of that, good contract with your customers.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Good contract with your vendors.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, good reasonable attorney legal structures and types of things.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the right legal structure, critical.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And understanding the difference that a buyer is going to want to do uh an asset purchase and you're going to want to have a stock sale.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: And what the ramifications are to you if as a seller, yeah, if you're doing taking an asset purchase agreement deal, what liabilities are you still carrying?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: You better understand those.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: Great HR day documentation.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: Huge.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's You gotta have all this stuff tightened up.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then here's the thing is like that makes you better business along the way, though.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, no, no, totally.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're trapping that the buyer is doing a due diligence to make sure they're not buying a piece of crap.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna have a bunch of freaking things blow up in their face.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that they gotta spend money on, problems that they may not be able to fix.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: The reality is if you've been running a good business and you've been doing your HR documentation correctly because you want to make sure you have your checks, you know, your I's dotted and T's crossed, you have a good legal structure because you've already thought about that because you don't want to be vulnerable.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right, and get sued.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or we've got this LLC where one person's got veto rights over the sale.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd create I don't know whether they're gonna go for this or not.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: I would never put myself in that position.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: You're a good business owner because you're peeling back the onion, baby, all the time.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Peeling back because you do stuff in the beginning where it's like really flighty.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't, and also you just don't know.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say don't have analysis paralysis and not start a business because you don't know how to do everything correctly.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: You can clean it up.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: But the point is you clean that shit up before you're enterprising along, you're getting a better and better business person.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then the amazing thing is is when somebody buys you and you are in that practice, they're like, those people know how to run a business.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's been one of the best compliments in my my career.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: When we got bought, uh-huh, like they're like, this is a good business, like after the sale.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: These guys know what they're doing versus a lot of the other experience.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's just like, you know, if I was selling my motorhome, and you know, do I have has it been taken care of?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Does it have needs?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Are the tires good?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Are the batteries fresh?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, does it have a history of maintenance?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: You can see the oil's been changed along the way, or there's none of that, and they're gonna buy this thing and it could blow up on the way home due to inattention or need ten thousand dollars worth of work when they took it to the truck place.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like if you and and you can tell real quickly that you just did a quick vacuum and clean versus I pulled a little couch hideway bed out.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: There's freaking gum and shit all in the bottom of it.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: A bunch of trash because you just did a surface clean.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, and you and it's the same thing.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: Here's what I would also say if you're an entrepreneur and you and you mentioned this in the very beginning, right?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: This guy that was that would build, sell, build, sell, build, sell, yeah, he can do that because he's built and sold, and that buyer is like that was a good business to buy.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: That it's it's just like anything, your reputation starts building if there's like that that credibility that he's able to build and sell really good companies because he's a good business owner.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: It comes down to just being in business, yeah.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I mean working in your business.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was gonna say the other thing is he's good at what he does.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: So he can always get the clients.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because he didn't detach and go, I'm beyond that.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm doing work on my business.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: All I do is look at accounting reports and go to meetings where I learn how to be a better leader or be a better whatever.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's a bad deal, bro.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hey man, I gotta go.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's been fun.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: It has.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of sad.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: I know you are, man.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sad it's over.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta go to a one o'clock meeting.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna be fun.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna have fun at this one.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, it won't be fun like this.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, it's been another episode of Big Talk about small businesses.com.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com, and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: And be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes, and ask questions about upcoming shows.