Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mild mannered pharmacist turned fire bomber drug dealer?

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Mild mannered pharmacist turned fire bomber drug dealer? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: How does a beloved within the community pharmacists end up
0:12
Speaker 1: being named as part of a firebombing plot? You know,
0:16
Speaker 1: when I go to the pharmacists and say the twins
0:19
Speaker 1: are running a fever or the twins have the sniffles,
0:21
Speaker 1: what should I do? How do you compare aspirin versus
0:25
Speaker 1: thailan all versus sed amnafin? Well, I don't expect the
0:30
Speaker 1: man or the woman on the other side of the
0:32
Speaker 1: counter to be plotting a fire bomb attempt. Crime Stories
0:43
Speaker 1: with Nancy Greece. I, Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.
0:54
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. I want you to
0:56
Speaker 1: take a listen because not only is this beloved in
0:59
Speaker 1: the COMMU community pharmacist well known been practicing a long time,
1:04
Speaker 1: but he was also somewhat of an infomercials star. Take
1:09
Speaker 1: a listen to Hiram Wilson on Modern Living with Kaffee Ireland.
1:14
Speaker 1: Our scars are our unique traits that give us personal identity. However,
1:18
Speaker 1: sometimes they can also affect our confidence. Hiram Wilson, CEO
1:23
Speaker 1: of farm Works, recently joined us to share how his
1:27
Speaker 1: company's product scar gen X, restores our self image. Welcome Hiram, oh,
1:33
Speaker 1: thank you for having me Hiram, can you tell us
1:35
Speaker 1: how you got started in the skincare industry. Absolutely, it
1:39
Speaker 1: started kind of organically. I am a pharmacist, and so
1:43
Speaker 1: I get questions from patients all the time, whether I'm
1:45
Speaker 1: working or not, and just by listening to what they're asking,
1:51
Speaker 1: over time, you kind of learned what things are most
1:53
Speaker 1: important to him. And I had a lot of people
1:55
Speaker 1: ask questions about their skin and what they could use
1:58
Speaker 1: for it, and I him to realize there wasn't a
2:01
Speaker 1: whole lot of good options. Guys, he has his customers,
2:06
Speaker 1: his clients, his patients ask him questions all the time.
2:08
Speaker 1: I wonder if some of those questions are, how do
2:11
Speaker 1: you make a firebomb? With me an all star panel
2:14
Speaker 1: to break it down and put it back together again.
2:16
Speaker 1: First of all, doctor William Moroney, the Chief Medical Examiner,
2:21
Speaker 1: Bay County, Michigan chief Medical Officer, Recovery Pathways created a
2:26
Speaker 1: new portable treatment center for oxygono codone addicts all over
2:31
Speaker 1: the country. It's a rolling RV medical treatment facility. Mark
2:35
Speaker 1: Tate with me Renown Lawyers joining me out of Savannah
2:39
Speaker 1: represents Shadow County, South Carolina, suing opioid manufacturers and you
2:43
Speaker 1: can find him at Tate Lawgroup dot com. Derek Ellington
2:48
Speaker 1: joining US Today expert in fraud and online activity. Bobby
2:52
Speaker 1: Cheko and former special agent with the FBI. Screenwriter of
2:57
Speaker 1: Criminal Minds and Special Guests. Alexis Terrest Chuck joining US
3:01
Speaker 1: investigative journalists Crime Online dot com. Wow, that was a mouthful.
3:06
Speaker 1: Let me go first to you, Alexis Terrest Chuck. How
3:09
Speaker 1: do you go from appearing on Kathy Ireland? Now? She's
3:14
Speaker 1: a sports illustrative model, correct, supermodel gorgeous, has her own
3:18
Speaker 1: show it's called Modern Living, and that was airing on
3:24
Speaker 1: Bloomberg and We TV. So how does a pharmacist end
3:29
Speaker 1: up sitting on a sofa with Kathy Ireland? He created
3:32
Speaker 1: his own product line. A pharmacist, you know, is a
3:35
Speaker 1: medical professional and he created this line that would help
3:39
Speaker 1: ease scars. So she being, you know, help someone who's
3:43
Speaker 1: sew into health and has her own program trying to
3:45
Speaker 1: help people all over the world with the skin problems.
3:48
Speaker 1: She brought him on, and you're right. She is a
3:49
Speaker 1: supermodel cover Sports Illustrated. She has she lived in Beverly Hill.
3:55
Speaker 1: She is really an impressive businesswoman and so she brings
3:58
Speaker 1: on this pharmacists to say, Kathy Ireland is no idiot.
4:04
Speaker 1: She's not just beauty, she's brains. You think she worked
4:07
Speaker 1: her way up from nothing to get on Sports Illustrated
4:09
Speaker 1: and then land this program and have like this mega
4:13
Speaker 1: million dollar franchise, you know, just an assigned Alesia's Treshchuk.
4:17
Speaker 1: They say the same thing about Jessica Simpson, that she's
4:20
Speaker 1: a dumb blonde because of her reality show. Remember she
4:22
Speaker 1: had with Nickola Shay. This girl sitting on like a
4:27
Speaker 1: billion dollar industry of selling shoes and clothes and products online.
4:32
Speaker 1: She's laughing all the way to the bank. Same thing
4:34
Speaker 1: with Kathy Ireland. So she brings in the sky. Hiram
4:37
Speaker 1: Wilson to doctor William Maroney, Doctor Maroney, before I became
4:44
Speaker 1: a crime fighter, you know, my mother wanted me to
4:46
Speaker 1: become a pharmacist. I had never even taken chemistry. I
4:50
Speaker 1: go to college. The very first lab we have, chemistry lab,
4:56
Speaker 1: I passed out because of the smell of the chemicals. Okay,
5:00
Speaker 1: so it takes a unique mind to be a pharmacist.
5:04
Speaker 1: What do you have to do to be a pharmacist?
5:07
Speaker 1: Don't get offended, but is it like going to medical school?
5:10
Speaker 1: How long. Don't don't stop off in a huff, Maroney.
5:14
Speaker 1: I know that doctors are smarter than everybody else. Okay,
5:17
Speaker 1: but what do you have to do to be a pharmacist.
5:19
Speaker 1: We have to take a lot of the same science classes,
5:22
Speaker 1: and pharmacists have to have a business sense and a
5:27
Speaker 1: better communication you know. The bedside manner they have is
5:31
Speaker 1: every single patient that walks through the door has a question,
5:35
Speaker 1: and you have to explain the prescription drugs and the
5:37
Speaker 1: regular drugs, and you have to break it down. You
5:40
Speaker 1: have to dump Doctors don't have to do that. No,
5:43
Speaker 1: they're arrogance. Would you said that? Not me? People? I'm
5:48
Speaker 1: not going to let the twins doctors hear me say
5:50
Speaker 1: they're arrogant. But you did say that. Your word's not mine. Okay,
5:53
Speaker 1: go ahead. So what kind of schooling? That's what I'm
5:56
Speaker 1: trying to get out. How many years of school do
5:58
Speaker 1: you go to be a pharmacist? They have recently in
6:02
Speaker 1: the last decade made the highest level pharmacist doctor a
6:08
Speaker 1: pharmacy called a farm D like an MD, And you
6:13
Speaker 1: take four years of college and then you go to
6:16
Speaker 1: pharmacy school. You used to just go to college. That
6:21
Speaker 1: was pharmacy school and you could be in and out
6:23
Speaker 1: in four years, but it's not four years of college. Plot.
6:26
Speaker 1: And you know that's really important because these are the gatekeepers. Yeah,
6:33
Speaker 1: and you have to have somebody who's smart and who
6:36
Speaker 1: cares and who's empathetic at that end, because doctors are
6:41
Speaker 1: rushed they can't explain stuff. Well, here's the thing. You've
6:45
Speaker 1: got to be careful who you give the keys to
6:48
Speaker 1: the kingdom. Yeah. In other words, to all that mad
6:52
Speaker 1: opioid toxic content. Just there's just so many painkillers and
6:57
Speaker 1: powerful mads, guys, in addition to the pharma, says Hiram Wilson,
7:02
Speaker 1: ending up sitting on a siphon next to Kathy Ireland,
7:05
Speaker 1: he brings on a special guest with him. Now, I
7:09
Speaker 1: want you to pay special attention to. This is your
7:12
Speaker 1: cut number six. This is Hiram Wilson all with Kathy
7:16
Speaker 1: Ireland with her lifestyle show Modern Living on Bloomberg WTV,
7:20
Speaker 1: and he brings on a patient named William Burgamy the fourth.
7:25
Speaker 1: About ten years ago, I got into a little accident
7:28
Speaker 1: and I had some scarring on my face and it
7:31
Speaker 1: stuck with me ever since up until using scargenics and
7:35
Speaker 1: utilizing the product. I've been using it for about forty
7:38
Speaker 1: five days now and the lines have completely blended in
7:43
Speaker 1: with my skin tone. Everything is blended together very very well,
7:48
Speaker 1: and you can't even see him anymore. The product is
7:51
Speaker 1: light and once I put the product on, there's no
7:56
Speaker 1: need to even wipe my hands off afterwards. The reason
8:00
Speaker 1: my turn towards Scargenix was because it has a lot
8:05
Speaker 1: of natural properties in it. It's not overloading. I felt
8:08
Speaker 1: like it wasn't something that was, you know, too overpromising
8:13
Speaker 1: or push them. I've heard enough of William Burgamy the
8:17
Speaker 1: fourth you know, I want to go out now to
8:19
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicone joining me, former FBI special agent greenwriter for
8:25
Speaker 1: Criminal Minds. Bobby, you know, when I would prosecute a case,
8:30
Speaker 1: let's just say, a dope lord, I didn't want to
8:33
Speaker 1: just get him. I wanted to get all the cockroaches
8:37
Speaker 1: within his industry. So you look at who the dope lord,
8:41
Speaker 1: that's just an example, is hanging out with. I guarantee
8:45
Speaker 1: you they're not hanging out with nuns and priests and virgins.
8:49
Speaker 1: So you look around at their associates, You look at
8:53
Speaker 1: where they meet. Do they go to the diner, or
8:55
Speaker 1: do they go to the strip club or the drug
8:57
Speaker 1: den or the crack house, or do they meet in
8:59
Speaker 1: their car. You have to put them under surveillance to
9:02
Speaker 1: find out who they're hanging out with. And I guarantee
9:05
Speaker 1: you it's all business. So step number one, you look
9:11
Speaker 1: not only at a target, but they're associates. How do
9:15
Speaker 1: you do that, Bobby che Code, Well, you know you
9:17
Speaker 1: do in a number way. Sometimes they make it harder
9:19
Speaker 1: for you by being very m surveillance conscious, and sometimes
9:23
Speaker 1: they make it easier for you. And when they go
9:25
Speaker 1: on TV and they bring in their friends and sitting
9:28
Speaker 1: on the couch next to them and give the testimonials
9:31
Speaker 1: for other things they're doing, it kind of it makes
9:34
Speaker 1: it easier to look at that person and establish a
9:37
Speaker 1: network of contacts that that person currently has. I mean,
9:40
Speaker 1: this is a really interesting case because they actually you're
9:46
Speaker 1: not kidding, Bobby, and it's all about scar genics. You
9:49
Speaker 1: get rid of your scars with this newly created formula
10:06
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, they went from
10:12
Speaker 1: sitting on the sofa with Cathee Ireland, the beauty Queen,
10:18
Speaker 1: to this take a listen to crime online dot Com
10:21
Speaker 1: investigator reporter Dave Mack. Federal investigators say Hiram Wilson regularly
10:27
Speaker 1: mailed thousands of prescription pills, including opioids, from the Nebraska
10:31
Speaker 1: pharmacy he ran to William Bergamy. William Burgamy in turn
10:35
Speaker 1: allegedly advertised and sold the drugs on the dark Web
10:39
Speaker 1: under the name of never Pressed RX, selling oxycodone and
10:43
Speaker 1: other narcotics without a prescription. A cut of the profits
10:46
Speaker 1: were then paid to Wilson as Bitcoin payments, wire transfers,
10:50
Speaker 1: and bundles of cash through the mail. The dark web
10:52
Speaker 1: transactions worked the same way as any online transaction. Users
10:56
Speaker 1: follow instructions to place in order and pay for it
10:59
Speaker 1: with cryptocurrency like bitcoin. Burgamy use the US Postal Service
11:03
Speaker 1: to ship the products. The FBI photographed Bergamy as he
11:07
Speaker 1: made trips to the local post offices where he allegedly
11:10
Speaker 1: mailed prescription drugs to various dark web clients. Burgamy use
11:14
Speaker 1: several accounts to move the money and would then swap
11:16
Speaker 1: the bitcoin out for US currency. Okay, I'm trying to
11:19
Speaker 1: get my mind around what this pharmacist is allegedly up to.
11:22
Speaker 1: We are talking about the neighborhood pharmacist that you go
11:25
Speaker 1: to when you're a child has a call for the
11:27
Speaker 1: sniffles or a fever. How could he be part of
11:30
Speaker 1: the dark Web sending unlicensed, unprescribed painkillers through the US
11:37
Speaker 1: mail using bitcoin. Okay, first of all, back to you,
11:41
Speaker 1: Bobby Chico and former special agent FBI explain in a
11:46
Speaker 1: nutshell if you can, what is the dark Web? Well,
11:49
Speaker 1: the dark web is a kind of a sub basement
11:52
Speaker 1: of the Internet where there are many layers of encryption
11:56
Speaker 1: that you need to get through, and so you need
11:59
Speaker 1: special skills and special knowledge to just to find this place, um,
12:04
Speaker 1: you know, on the Internet, or some people call it
12:06
Speaker 1: apart from the Internet, but it's it's really a deep,
12:09
Speaker 1: dark kind of place. And we say dark because it's
12:12
Speaker 1: very difficult to get to. You need to know how
12:15
Speaker 1: to get there. You need to know the keystrokes basically
12:18
Speaker 1: that you need to type into your computer on Bob,
12:20
Speaker 1: I've got to get to our computer expert. I'm gonna
12:22
Speaker 1: circle back to you, Bobby. Derek Ellington Expert Online Activity,
12:26
Speaker 1: certified fraud examiner at ellington dot net. Derek Ellington, I'm
12:32
Speaker 1: always struck by pedophiles in that they say I was
12:40
Speaker 1: just looking up X and suddenly child porn jumped onto
12:44
Speaker 1: my screen. You know what, in all the years I
12:48
Speaker 1: have looked up murders, murder, weapons, murder for high or
12:52
Speaker 1: you name every kind of crime, I have never had
12:57
Speaker 1: child porn or pornography at all just pop up on
13:02
Speaker 1: my screen. It's never happened. Hows it happened to you? Brett? No, okay,
13:06
Speaker 1: So how does this work to you? Derek Ellington? How
13:12
Speaker 1: do you go to the Internet and everybody type seeing Google?
13:16
Speaker 1: How do you suddenly end up on the dark Web? Well, Nancy,
13:20
Speaker 1: as my mother would say, if you were where you
13:22
Speaker 1: were supposed to be, doing what you were supposed to
13:25
Speaker 1: be doing, this would not have happened. But I think
13:29
Speaker 1: it's important for the listeners to understand that for most
13:33
Speaker 1: of us, when we start our Internet journey, we will
13:37
Speaker 1: go to something like a search engine, which is what
13:39
Speaker 1: we call Google being Yahoo, and when you search using Google,
13:45
Speaker 1: you're not actually searching the Internet. You're searching a list
13:49
Speaker 1: of Internet sites that someone else has created for you.
13:52
Speaker 1: And when they make that list, they make choices about
13:55
Speaker 1: what to leave in you know, what to take out
13:58
Speaker 1: and stuff. So one way of sort of looking at
14:01
Speaker 1: what the the dark web is is in a way
14:05
Speaker 1: you can think of it like, maybe there's a restaurant
14:07
Speaker 1: or a store in your town and they don't advertise,
14:11
Speaker 1: They don't they have a building, but they don't have
14:13
Speaker 1: a sign out front. And the only way you know
14:16
Speaker 1: where it is is if you if someone tells you
14:18
Speaker 1: specifically where it is. Maybe when you get there, there's
14:22
Speaker 1: a doorman or a bouncer that that asks you for
14:24
Speaker 1: a password or whoa, whoa what? Okay? So, um, I
14:32
Speaker 1: want to go to a restaurant, but they don't have
14:34
Speaker 1: a sign and they don't advertise, and when I get there,
14:37
Speaker 1: I have to show a bounce or some kind of
14:39
Speaker 1: Idina's secret code. Yeah no, Well, and the great thing
14:44
Speaker 1: is this is this is something like you see a
14:45
Speaker 1: lot with even pop up restaurants or something. So there's
14:48
Speaker 1: a lot of exclusivity in our culture anyway when it
14:53
Speaker 1: comes to things like that. But but picture once you
14:56
Speaker 1: walk through that door. Maybe it's just a simple little
15:00
Speaker 1: shop that sells one particular thing, or it could be
15:03
Speaker 1: a sprawling shopping mall with every type of product imaginable.
15:08
Speaker 1: And in essence, the dark web is simply websites selling
15:14
Speaker 1: products and because of the nature of the products. They
15:18
Speaker 1: don't want to be, you know, easily accessible on main street.
15:23
Speaker 1: But but I'm the dark Web. You go to Google
15:28
Speaker 1: Dark Web. Actually, you know, it does take a couple
15:31
Speaker 1: of steps, but it doesn't really require that much effort,
15:35
Speaker 1: and in fact, it's not something that you really have
15:37
Speaker 1: to be a hacker or computer expert to do, because
15:41
Speaker 1: the steps are laid out pretty easy. So you don't
15:44
Speaker 1: get directly to the dark Web from Google, but the
15:47
Speaker 1: instructions are there. In essence, what you would do is
15:50
Speaker 1: you can use your regular browser or special browsers that
15:55
Speaker 1: look for these sites that use a different kind of
15:59
Speaker 1: set of direct actions. Okay, stuff right there, because four browsers, right,
16:03
Speaker 1: there's a thing called what well, there are certain browsers.
16:07
Speaker 1: One is called tour. But he's saying O R. What
16:12
Speaker 1: do you say, t O R? Tour something called a
16:16
Speaker 1: tour browser. Wait a minute, if you don't know about
16:18
Speaker 1: the dark web, why are you holding up a sign
16:20
Speaker 1: that says t O R Before he could even say it?
16:23
Speaker 1: Never mind, I don't want to know. Okay, so you
16:27
Speaker 1: basically have to work at it to get into the
16:30
Speaker 1: dark Web. So Alexis Terres Chuck explain to me how
16:34
Speaker 1: these allegations against a mild mannered pharmacist, I mean using
16:39
Speaker 1: the dark web to sell illegal opiates. And when we
16:43
Speaker 1: say doctor William Moroney, illegal opiates, what are we talking about.
16:46
Speaker 1: You're talking about anything that has not passed through traditional
16:52
Speaker 1: licensing and business pathways. It's not prescribed, it's not covered
16:57
Speaker 1: by insurance, and it's a maintained through sources that are
17:02
Speaker 1: not acceptable. And what do you mean by that? Because
17:05
Speaker 1: if somebody wants pain relievers and they don't want to
17:08
Speaker 1: go to the doctor, tell me why this is so wrong.
17:12
Speaker 1: The traditional way you do this is you go to
17:15
Speaker 1: a doctor with a license, he writes a prescription, you
17:19
Speaker 1: go to a pharmacy with a license, and it's all
17:21
Speaker 1: regulated by your state and the DA. If you skip
17:26
Speaker 1: all those, you're passing regulation and rejecting the laws that
17:32
Speaker 1: controlled our medicine for safety reasons. Okay, so we're talking
17:36
Speaker 1: about OPM, heroin, fentanyl, morphine, coda, noxicodone, hydro coda, a thing.
17:41
Speaker 1: It's all the same. It's all the same, all right,
17:43
Speaker 1: And the reason we don't want people to have access
17:47
Speaker 1: to that without a legitimate pharmacist or a legitimate prescription
17:51
Speaker 1: is because it will be misused, given to children, given
17:55
Speaker 1: to teens, given to people that are already addicts, people
17:58
Speaker 1: that are not really in pain. That's what we're talking about, correct,
18:03
Speaker 1: doctor Moroney. Yes. And a perfect example is Prince put
18:07
Speaker 1: something in his mouth that he thought was a Norco.
18:12
Speaker 1: It was full of ventanyl and he died. That's a
18:15
Speaker 1: perfect example of why we follow regulatory pathways. Dope, smag eights,
18:21
Speaker 1: train thunder, a black Tar, China, white Horse and he
18:24
Speaker 1: freeze brown sugar, Henry Horse, skag Hero held us junk.
18:28
Speaker 1: I mean it goes on and on and on oxy.
18:31
Speaker 1: I mean there's a million names for street drugs. So
18:34
Speaker 1: Alexi's terrest check. How did this all blow up? Oh
18:37
Speaker 1: that was a bad pun because we're talking about a firebomb.
18:40
Speaker 1: But I'm not understanding how we went from the mild
18:44
Speaker 1: mannered pharmacist that everybody knows he's on the sofa with
18:47
Speaker 1: Kathy Ireland to an alleged fire bomb plot Time Stories
19:04
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about Tyram Wilson,
19:10
Speaker 1: a forty one year old pharmacist that is now tangled
19:14
Speaker 1: up and a fire bomb plot. And William Burgamy the
19:19
Speaker 1: fourth that sounds impressive. Somehow is tangled up in it
19:24
Speaker 1: with him, So Alexis, Alexis, take a listen, just for
19:28
Speaker 1: one moment. To Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Cut
19:33
Speaker 1: three Dave Mack. The details of Hiram Wilson's firebombing plan
19:37
Speaker 1: was uncovered during William Bergamy's arrest. During a search of
19:41
Speaker 1: Bergamy's home, investigators found notes for Operation Firewood in a
19:45
Speaker 1: handwritten notebook in a leather binder, and text messages with
19:48
Speaker 1: Wilson on Burgamy's phone. Wilson instructed Burgamy and an unnamed
19:53
Speaker 1: individual to break into the pharmacy and steal drugs. Wilson
19:57
Speaker 1: allegedly told Bergamy that the competitor farmers he did three
20:00
Speaker 1: times the business he did, so they should have three
20:03
Speaker 1: times the pills. Wilson told them the drugs would be
20:06
Speaker 1: an alphabetical order and they should focus on H two
20:09
Speaker 1: hydrocodone to oxycodone. After stealing their drugs, he instructed the
20:13
Speaker 1: pair to blow the place up using Molotov cocktails enhanced
20:16
Speaker 1: with styrofoam as a thickening agent to burn it to
20:19
Speaker 1: the ground. Guys who were hearing our friend Dave Mackett
20:21
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com. This is what is being alleged
20:24
Speaker 1: right now that pharmacist Hiram Wilson illegally selling prescription opioids
20:30
Speaker 1: from his shop, Hiram's Family Value Pharmacy Auburn, Nebraska on
20:36
Speaker 1: the dark web. But he needed more drugs to keep
20:39
Speaker 1: the illegal side business going, so mister Wilson, Hiram Wilson
20:49
Speaker 1: brings in a henchman. So Alexis Terreschuk Crime online dot
20:54
Speaker 1: Com explained to me how Hiram Wilson gets tangled up
20:57
Speaker 1: with this guy Burga me the Fourth. He has found
21:01
Speaker 1: him and he is using please use proper nouns. Who
21:07
Speaker 1: found who? Sorry, Hiram the pharmacist has found William Burgamy're
21:12
Speaker 1: on a first name basis with the alleged fire bomber pharmacists.
21:18
Speaker 1: Hiram Wilson found William Burgamy the Fourth where they have
21:24
Speaker 1: known each other for years. They have apparently been doing
21:28
Speaker 1: businesses together. They've been doing this skidntcare line. It's unclear
21:33
Speaker 1: how that you actually know each other. But the pharmacist
21:36
Speaker 1: is using Burgamy to illegally sell the hydrocode. When he
21:40
Speaker 1: gets so. Pharmacists are given a certain amount of drugs
21:44
Speaker 1: every month from the FDA. You are a pharmacist who
21:46
Speaker 1: have twelve patients, you get ten pills per month per patient.
21:49
Speaker 1: You get one hundred and twenty per month. That's it.
21:51
Speaker 1: You don't get anymore. You have a certain amount. Well,
21:54
Speaker 1: the pharmacists decided that he wanted to sell more because
21:59
Speaker 1: he was given to burgamy signed them on the dark
22:02
Speaker 1: web for a huge profit. You know, if he's able
22:06
Speaker 1: to give it covered by insurance, he gets maybe ten
22:08
Speaker 1: dollars per pills. He's selling it through this dark web.
22:11
Speaker 1: He's making one hundred dollars per pill. And also, I
22:14
Speaker 1: just want to say I tried to get on the
22:16
Speaker 1: dark web while investigating this story. I don't think it's
22:20
Speaker 1: as easy as the previous guest had said. My husband
22:23
Speaker 1: really said, drink am I getting a little bit of
22:25
Speaker 1: trouble here. You know, you can't just get there from Google,
22:27
Speaker 1: Chrome or anything. So I think you're right about that,
22:30
Speaker 1: Alexis torres Chuck. It may be easy for Derek Ellington
22:33
Speaker 1: because he's an online expert who specializes in fraud, but
22:39
Speaker 1: for regular people, but I gotta warn you, I think
22:41
Speaker 1: your husband is right. Alexis ures Hut because that's how
22:45
Speaker 1: the FBI initially found Burgamy the fourth, because they can
22:51
Speaker 1: get onto the dark web just like Derek Ellington can,
22:55
Speaker 1: and they see this guy all the dark web and
22:58
Speaker 1: begin investigating him. And where does the cricket path lead
23:02
Speaker 1: straight to the home town pharmacist? Mark Tate is a
23:07
Speaker 1: special guest joining me today. He's a renowned attorney out
23:10
Speaker 1: of Savannah, and Tate has actually taken on opioid manufacturers
23:18
Speaker 1: and that is not easy. You can find him at
23:21
Speaker 1: Tait Lawgroup dot com. Mark Tate, Is it true that
23:24
Speaker 1: you actually met the hometown pharmacist Hiram Wilson for the firebombing?
23:31
Speaker 1: Go ahead? I met him long before the firebombing. I
23:35
Speaker 1: met him at a stout and serves alcohol. And this
23:41
Speaker 1: Nebraska pharmacist, after that intervention where he was acting pretty peculiarly,
23:46
Speaker 1: wound up leaving that bar involuntarily. Okay, please don't talk
23:52
Speaker 1: like a lawyer now. I love that an opposing counsel
23:56
Speaker 1: does it in court because as gurars go, oh, but
23:59
Speaker 1: what are you saying? Did you get thrown out of
24:01
Speaker 1: a bar? What happened? No? An ambulance carried him away
24:05
Speaker 1: after he was inappropriate and belligerent and violent with me. Whoa,
24:09
Speaker 1: you actually got in a fight with Harold Wilson. I
24:12
Speaker 1: gotta fight with that guy? Why over? What did you
24:15
Speaker 1: know it before that? Oh? Hell no, he tried to
24:17
Speaker 1: take my son's cigars. Okay, wait a minute, all right,
24:24
Speaker 1: how old is your son? And when did this occur?
24:29
Speaker 1: About two or three years ago? So when he's twenty? Yeah,
24:33
Speaker 1: what's the drinking limit in your jurisdiction? You were not
24:36
Speaker 1: in the United States? Uh? Huh? Okay, So you take
24:40
Speaker 1: your son offside and you're in a bar. Yeah, hey,
24:45
Speaker 1: you knew this was cunning date. You take your son
24:47
Speaker 1: out for a cigar and a drink? Now did you
24:50
Speaker 1: not just hear Derek Ellington's mother say if you were
24:54
Speaker 1: were you supposed to me? This would not have happened?
24:57
Speaker 1: But oh yes, I absolutely agree. We're where how do
25:01
Speaker 1: you get? You know how close you came to big trouble.
25:06
Speaker 1: This is a guy that is accused in an intricate
25:09
Speaker 1: plot by the Feds, and they don't play all right
25:12
Speaker 1: for you to get charged by a FED. They've got
25:14
Speaker 1: boxes and boxes of documents on you. I know I
25:17
Speaker 1: was a FED for a while. So you're in a bar.
25:20
Speaker 1: How many stories start that way I'm in a bar,
25:23
Speaker 1: but normally they don't say next, with my son and
25:25
Speaker 1: a cigar, what did Hiro and Wilson do? We were
25:30
Speaker 1: approached by him and he tried to take my son's cigar.
25:34
Speaker 1: My son told Louie couldn't get it to him because
25:36
Speaker 1: he had tuberculosis, which was a complete lion a joke.
25:40
Speaker 1: And I asked this this fellow to leave us because
25:43
Speaker 1: we would never be at the level he was. He
25:46
Speaker 1: refused to leave and became belligerent. My son then told him,
25:51
Speaker 1: you have no idea what you're about to get into. Well,
25:54
Speaker 1: the guy came at me, and I had to obviously
25:58
Speaker 1: defend what was happening, and you had to defend a cigar.
26:03
Speaker 1: I had to defend the way he's squeared up on
26:05
Speaker 1: my son, on your son and right, and you start
26:09
Speaker 1: with me and my twins, and you'll say nothing but
26:11
Speaker 1: teeth and nails. No. So well, you get in a
26:15
Speaker 1: five in a bar and he gets taken away. What
26:19
Speaker 1: did you punch him? Oh? No, no, no. He came
26:21
Speaker 1: at me and I just stepped aside and pushed him
26:24
Speaker 1: and he lost his footing, I think, And you know,
26:27
Speaker 1: if I were you and you tell that story in
26:29
Speaker 1: your future, I'd go with a punch because it's just
26:32
Speaker 1: a whole lot better the story. So I'm telling you
26:34
Speaker 1: the reason I'm going with that story, missus Graces Ms,
26:40
Speaker 1: Miss Grace, Yeah, is that the security guard. We didn't
26:43
Speaker 1: want there to be any trouble for me, So just
26:46
Speaker 1: that's it. When you putty sarrived, you tell him to
26:49
Speaker 1: mount it off his footing and hit his head. Yeah,
26:53
Speaker 1: you know what I find interesting about that story? Um,
26:57
Speaker 1: And I don't know quite how to exp blameet, but
27:01
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to you. Bobby chicon following up
27:04
Speaker 1: on Mark Tait's story of what happened down in the island,
27:09
Speaker 1: sounds like by that accent it was in Jamaica. But okay,
27:14
Speaker 1: Bobby chicombe, are you surprised at all because I know
27:20
Speaker 1: he's the hometown pharmacist involved in a fire bombing plot
27:23
Speaker 1: with some thug. But the way, I would never dream
27:27
Speaker 1: of going up to someone at a bar or a
27:30
Speaker 1: restaurant or anywhere and getting in a fight because they
27:33
Speaker 1: wouldn't sell me something they had on their person, and
27:36
Speaker 1: making threats just out of the blue, such as hey,
27:39
Speaker 1: you don't know who you're dealing with. Yeah, it seems
27:41
Speaker 1: like he was a hometown pharmacist that wanted to be
27:43
Speaker 1: a whole lot more right, he had other businesses, he
27:45
Speaker 1: had infommercials. He was living in his mind at least
27:49
Speaker 1: a little larger than his hometown pharmacy persona might have indicated.
27:53
Speaker 1: And so it seems like he had some personality issues
27:56
Speaker 1: that he wanted to be a lot bigger than that
28:00
Speaker 1: he was, And that's indicated by some of his not
28:02
Speaker 1: only his behavior, but some of his correspondents, um, you know,
28:05
Speaker 1: with the guy who was selling drugs for him and
28:07
Speaker 1: things like that. So I think that that his behavior
28:09
Speaker 1: is is kind of consistent throughout in both the infomercial
28:14
Speaker 1: world and and and his his dealing with his competitive
28:18
Speaker 1: pharmacies in that small town. And obviously now when he's
28:22
Speaker 1: on vacation or you know, away from that town. He
28:25
Speaker 1: seems to be a guy who who is living a
28:28
Speaker 1: little larger at least in his mind, um, than a
28:31
Speaker 1: smalltown pharmacist. Well you may call it living larger, but
28:34
Speaker 1: I call it sticking one foot in hell. I'd rather
28:38
Speaker 1: have the hometown pharmacists any day than a guy involved
28:41
Speaker 1: with selling opioids over the dark Weather Time Stories with
28:58
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, thank you for being with us here
29:03
Speaker 1: at Crime Stories. If you were to look at these
29:05
Speaker 1: two like I'm looking at them right now, you can
29:07
Speaker 1: see him on Crime online dot Com. They look like
29:12
Speaker 1: ordinary business people. I'm looking at Hiram Wilson and William
29:16
Speaker 1: Anderson Burgamy the Fourth. They look like upstanding business guys,
29:21
Speaker 1: you know, well manicured, well groom, got on a suit,
29:24
Speaker 1: the works. That's not at all what they are. Appearances
29:28
Speaker 1: can be so misleading. Back to you, Alexis Torreschuk joining
29:31
Speaker 1: US Crime online dot Com. Break it down, Tell me,
29:35
Speaker 1: So the FBI start looking at Burgamy the Fourth on
29:39
Speaker 1: the dark web. They can get on there too and
29:42
Speaker 1: see what he's doing, dealing dope with bitcoin, hoping to
29:48
Speaker 1: cover his tracks by not using credit cards or regular
29:53
Speaker 1: US currency. Then what happens? How does a firebomb get
29:57
Speaker 1: into this? Alexis? So the FBI sits up this guy.
30:00
Speaker 1: They don't say my bad, that's not the right word.
30:02
Speaker 1: The FBI purchases drugs from Burgamy four times so to
30:07
Speaker 1: prove that he is selling these drugs. They've set them
30:09
Speaker 1: up so they finally get enough evidence that he is
30:11
Speaker 1: dealing drugs on the dark web, and they get a
30:14
Speaker 1: search warrant from a judge and they go in his
30:17
Speaker 1: house to arrest him for selling these illegal drugs. And
30:21
Speaker 1: they find a cash of weapons of yep rifles, you know,
30:29
Speaker 1: R fifteen rifles. They find all the things to make
30:32
Speaker 1: the Molotov cocktail, and they find a notebook, handwritten notebook,
30:37
Speaker 1: the nicest handwriting I have ever seen, truly, you know,
30:40
Speaker 1: and even can see that. They open up the notebook
30:43
Speaker 1: and it has a plan for something called Firewood. They're
30:46
Speaker 1: looking at this Firewood would mean Operation Firewood, Yes, Operation Firewoods.
30:53
Speaker 1: Of idiots. They keep written notes and even name and
30:56
Speaker 1: this is a firebombing plot, to name it Operation Firewood.
31:02
Speaker 1: Sitting there with all of your Amolotov cocktail ingredients and
31:05
Speaker 1: your cash of automatic weapons. Okay, go ahead, idiots. So
31:09
Speaker 1: the police find this and they see basically the detailed
31:13
Speaker 1: plan laid out like I need a map, I need
31:15
Speaker 1: to know exactly where it is. Here the details about
31:18
Speaker 1: where the drugs are going to be stored in this
31:20
Speaker 1: other pharmacy. And as day Back said, you go for
31:24
Speaker 1: the H and the OH, which is what the pharmacist
31:27
Speaker 1: told him. So they have the whole plan right there.
31:29
Speaker 1: Just h and oh, I assume you're talking about oxycodone,
31:35
Speaker 1: and all I can think of hydroconone, Okay, gotcha. And
31:42
Speaker 1: it's like the five five hundred, hugely more powerful than
31:47
Speaker 1: Thailand all you know what, like the most powerful pain
31:49
Speaker 1: killer you can take in a pillform. They give it
31:52
Speaker 1: to you after major surgery like back surgery, collapsalum surgery,
31:55
Speaker 1: anything like that. So the police say, there is this guy,
32:01
Speaker 1: this pharmacist in Nebraska, this guy who's been working with
32:04
Speaker 1: First they're thinking, oh, we got that's where he got
32:06
Speaker 1: the drugs from. Because this guy burg, I mean, he
32:08
Speaker 1: wasn't making these drugs. And he wasn't certainly because he
32:11
Speaker 1: was saying when he was advertising on the Dark Weapon,
32:14
Speaker 1: this is great, A plus pharmacy level. And I can
32:20
Speaker 1: even show you the prescription bottle that'll show you that
32:23
Speaker 1: this is the real deal. And the investigating officer from
32:26
Speaker 1: the FBI said he knows in his experience for investigating
32:30
Speaker 1: this stuff for over a decade, that this is high level.
32:34
Speaker 1: These are high level drugs. Operation Firewood. Who are these
32:39
Speaker 1: two going to firebomb? Because so far all I hear
32:43
Speaker 1: is ingredients in the home from Molotov, which I mean
32:46
Speaker 1: you can make that out of any accelerant and put
32:48
Speaker 1: it in a jar, cover it and throw it. But
32:52
Speaker 1: it can be more sophisticated than that. So the ingredients
32:56
Speaker 1: from Molotov cocktail the cash of automatic weapons. And this
33:00
Speaker 1: journal very detailed, very precise, called Operation of Firewood. So
33:05
Speaker 1: who are they gonna bomb? They're gonna bomb the local pharmacy, then,
33:08
Speaker 1: the one right down the road in the same town
33:12
Speaker 1: as Hiram. Why because Wilson needs more drugs he is
33:17
Speaker 1: only allotted a certain amount for his customers. Well, he's
33:20
Speaker 1: not the biggest pharmacy in town. This other pharmacy has
33:23
Speaker 1: competitor to three times to business. He has three times
33:26
Speaker 1: many customers. But why fire bombs them? Why this is
33:30
Speaker 1: what we know out of business? Oh, I say, so
33:32
Speaker 1: he'll be the only game in town. Text to have
33:35
Speaker 1: emerged between the two men revealing they've been planning Operation
33:39
Speaker 1: Firewood for months on end Burgamy and another who we
33:45
Speaker 1: now know to be the pharmacist, were to dawn skull masks,
33:50
Speaker 1: arm themselves with a salt rifle and shotguns, and hit
33:54
Speaker 1: the rival pharmacy at night. They even had a getaway
33:58
Speaker 1: map showing the fastest routes to Kansas and Missouri that
34:02
Speaker 1: they would take after the firebombing. They hoped destroying the
34:06
Speaker 1: rival business would send its clients to Wilson and he
34:10
Speaker 1: could increase the amount of prescription drugs the pharmacy was
34:13
Speaker 1: allowed to order. Doctor William Moroni, Yeah, jump in, help
34:20
Speaker 1: me out the pharmacist. I mean, they've got it right
34:24
Speaker 1: down to hey, well, we are skull caps, and you
34:27
Speaker 1: take the AAR and I'll take this show. It sounds
34:29
Speaker 1: like two fifth graders planning a firebombing. These guys watch
34:34
Speaker 1: too much TV, waite too much. You know, if you're
34:38
Speaker 1: really doing your job and you're working hard, you don't
34:41
Speaker 1: have time for this stuff. But one of your guests
34:45
Speaker 1: interestingly put out something that the general public doesn't know.
34:50
Speaker 1: There are quotas opiate quotas, quotas on morphine, quotas on hydrocodone,
34:56
Speaker 1: quotas on oxycodone, and if you sell your quota earlier
35:02
Speaker 1: in the month, you can't fill anymore. So they were
35:09
Speaker 1: driven by greed and the love of money, because in
35:14
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry, the federal regulations are trying to encourage
35:20
Speaker 1: a more conservative presentation. Don't forget everybody's been blaming the
35:24
Speaker 1: doctors for a decade on this opioid crisis. All those
35:29
Speaker 1: prescriptions had to get filled by a pharmacy, pharmacists, pharmacies,
35:35
Speaker 1: pharmacy corporations. They're all just as guilty. The doctors wrote
35:39
Speaker 1: the prescription, but some fool out there had to fill it,
35:44
Speaker 1: And these over prescribing practices led to federal regulation that
35:50
Speaker 1: introduced quotas the public doesn't mess. You know, Mark Tait,
35:56
Speaker 1: you're an attorney in Savannah and you've taken on the
35:59
Speaker 1: big pure manufacturers. That's not easy, but so often, and
36:03
Speaker 1: I would have this happen when I would be trying
36:05
Speaker 1: cases all the time. You meet a person and they
36:08
Speaker 1: seem like one thing, there's something else altogether. And to
36:12
Speaker 1: look at these guys, I'm looking at the photos right now,
36:16
Speaker 1: they look like ordinary businessman. He looks like a pharmacist,
36:21
Speaker 1: a young pharmacist, and the other one burging me the
36:25
Speaker 1: fourth They just look like regular guys, and they present
36:29
Speaker 1: as regular people. Who would know, ever, that what you're
36:33
Speaker 1: dealing with is someone plotting a firebomb that can result
36:37
Speaker 1: in death or dismemberment. And this dart web dope dealing.
36:43
Speaker 1: You're pharmacist taate right, Well, I find this really to
36:47
Speaker 1: be fascinating because these First of all, the pharmacist mister Wilson,
36:55
Speaker 1: in fact, is almost literally a snake oil seal. When
37:00
Speaker 1: he's taking oil from the nuts of an endangered tree
37:03
Speaker 1: in the Amazon and mix it with some alo via
37:07
Speaker 1: and selling it as scar stuff. You know, it's not
37:10
Speaker 1: FDA approved, So that's a little bit sketchy. And it's
37:13
Speaker 1: even sketchier of course that he's hooked up with the
37:17
Speaker 1: guy who threw the tour browser, which gets its name
37:19
Speaker 1: from the original project the Onion Router to find secret websites,
37:25
Speaker 1: hooks up with him and is pumping opius through him
37:28
Speaker 1: that are purchased with bitcoin, and then they lounder that money,
37:33
Speaker 1: and then they come up with this idea of blowing
37:35
Speaker 1: up their only competitor in Nebraska, so he get up
37:38
Speaker 1: his allocation by the distributor. Guys, I want you to
37:42
Speaker 1: hear this. Take one more thing. You've got to hear this,
37:46
Speaker 1: rolled Dave Matt Crime Online. Federal investigators found that Hiram
37:50
Speaker 1: Wilson provided a satellite photo of the area with escape
37:53
Speaker 1: routes Wilson had described the two ways of escaping, one
37:57
Speaker 1: through town, the other headed south. At one point, Burgamy
38:01
Speaker 1: told Wilson that he intended to carry at least one
38:04
Speaker 1: rifle and at least one handgun while breaking into, stealing from,
38:08
Speaker 1: and firebombing the victim. Pharmacy text messages showed that Burgamy
38:13
Speaker 1: made a list of equipment that would be needed to
38:15
Speaker 1: pull off the plan, a list that included body armor, weapons, bottles,
38:20
Speaker 1: lighter fluid, and other materials. Agents later found eight loaded
38:25
Speaker 1: weapons at Burgamy's Maryland residents, including two AR fifteen style
38:30
Speaker 1: semi automatic rifles. Amazing, they kept such copious notes in
38:35
Speaker 1: their planning that it's going to be like shooting a
38:38
Speaker 1: fish in a barrel come trial time. Alexis rush Stock,
38:41
Speaker 1: Where does it stand right now? So these guys were
38:45
Speaker 1: arrested and the police are prosecuting them. The thing is,
38:49
Speaker 1: so these two are with this evidence, all they seem
38:53
Speaker 1: to be doing is blaming each other. Oh I love that,
38:56
Speaker 1: Alexis when you get two codefendants and they both go
38:58
Speaker 1: as you can use all that at trial and we
39:03
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off
39:09
Speaker 1: goodbye sand,