Latest / Karl and Crew / Theology of suffering with Dr. Gerald Peterman & Theology of Communication with Brian Kammerzelt & Learning Languages with Travis Williamson

Transcript

Theology of suffering with Dr. Gerald Peterman & Theology of Communication with Brian Kammerzelt & Learning Languages with Travis Williamson · Karl and Crew

• 0:00
  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
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  S1: the truth daily.
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  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available.
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  S2: And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S3: the life source, which is God.
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  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
• 0:44
  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and Crew.
• 0:49
  S2: Well, I'm happy to report that Jonathan got us back
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  S2: to school. Haircut.
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  S3: I did get my back to school haircut.
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  S2: I mean, you look like you're about going into third grade.
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  S3: Wow. Thank you. I'm 30. I'm 30 years old, by
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  S3: the way.
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  S2: I mean, he walked in this morning with a with
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  S2: a truly fresh out of the barber chair where.
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  S4: The engineers.
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  S3: Were.
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  S4: This morning. They're all like, hey, Jonathan.
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  S3: I mean, it couldn't be any more fresh. I got
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  S3: my haircut finished up around 7:00 last night.
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  S4: Oh, my.
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  S3: And so when you when you I mean, when you
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  S3: have a two year old and you know, you get
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  S3: off of work and then your wife starts work, uh,
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  S3: you there's not really a lot of time for a haircut,
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  S3: so you gotta find it when you can get it.
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  S2: It was, it had grown out quite a bit.
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  S3: It had. See, the problem was, is I went to
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  S3: the barber shop a couple of weeks ago, uh, to,
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  S3: to get my hair cut, but I walked up as
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  S3: they were closing and they were like, we can't do
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  S3: your haircut now. And then I couldn't go after that.
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  S3: And it just kept getting delayed and, uh, and yeah, the,
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  S3: the hair really started to get crazy and curly.
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  S2: I, that's what I, I noticed a week or two ago,
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  S2: I said, your hair, it was The ends were curling.
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  S2: I had never seen that before.
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  S3: Yeah, and I usually don't get it. I don't let
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  S3: it get that long. But yes, my my hair is
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  S3: curly once it gets long. And I mean my dad
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  S3: when he was in college, naturally, not like he did
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  S3: something to make it happen. He naturally had an afro, uh, in,
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  S3: in college and in his early 20s. And so.
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  S2: So you have a little bit of curly. We have
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  S2: a little.
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  S3: Bit of curl in our hair. Yep. Exactly.
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  S2: Well, I mean, do you remember picture day and you,
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  S2: if you were a boy, you wanted to have the
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  S2: haircut and then maybe your mom would coerce you into
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  S2: getting into a collared shirt of some sort.
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  S3: Oh, no collared shirt. No collared, uh, maybe. Maybe for
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  S3: picture day, I guess for picture day. Yes. I was
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  S3: thinking first day of school.
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  S2: No. Okay, so picture day.
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  S3: Picture.
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  S2: Day. Yeah. You try to get them in in some
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  S2: sort of a collared shirt or.
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  S4: I figured, you know, Jonathan's the baby of the family.
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  S4: So by the time Jonathan's pictures, she probably was like,
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  S4: you know what? It's not a battle I'm gonna fight anymore.
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  S3: No, my mom cared. My mom cared. And so we
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  S3: we got the we got the collared shirts for picture day.
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  S4: Yeah, I.
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  S2: Love picture day because everybody looks really uncomfortable.
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  S4: Yes.
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  S3: Oh my.
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  S2: God. I remember one picture day and this it, it
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  S2: resulted in probably one of my worst pictures. But I
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  S2: decided that morning while at school that I wanted to
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  S2: create bangs for myself, for my picture.
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  S3: How'd that.
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  S4: Go?
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  S2: Horrible.
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  S4: So I, I.
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  S3: Gotta be careful with.
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  S2: Naturally very curly hair.
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  S3: Okay.
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  S2: And so I tried to take the front part and
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  S2: kind of use a brush to create a curl. Okay.
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  S2: To for the bangs. And oh boy, it was, it
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  S2: was really bad. Really bad.
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  S3: Mhm. Is the picture accessible?
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  S2: I mean, I honestly, I have quite a few bad
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  S2: school pictures. My school pictures. There were there were years
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  S2: of my life where I had hard a hard time
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  S2: seriously looking at my school picture, I was.
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  S3: Sure.
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  S2: I was very awkward. I had these huge blue Framed
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  S2: plastic glasses. They were, I guess, all the rage in
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  S2: the late 80s, early 90s. This was the style, but
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  S2: they were. I took over almost my whole face. So
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  S2: I had these huge glasses, this curly hair that I
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  S2: hadn't yet. All of the curly hair, natural hair products
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  S2: that are available now weren't available then. So I went
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  S2: to hairstylists who thought, oh, let me just give you
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  S2: the haircut that the blonde, straight haired girl down the
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  S2: street has. That's never so I had bad haircuts, bad glasses,
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  S2: awkward smile. So some of those pictures I. It took
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  S2: me years to feel like nothing when I. When I
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  S2: looked at them.
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  S3: You're certainly not alone. I mean, I think that that's
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  S3: actually probably more common than you'd think in terms of pictures.
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  S2: I think we all feel that. Well, the funny thing
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  S2: is I, I saw someone post, you know, people like
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  S2: to bring old pictures out of the archives and throw
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  S2: them on Facebook. Like, guys, can we get permission before
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  S2: you just throw up this picture? Because I didn't consent
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  S2: to this being posted, but I was looking back at
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  S2: this picture and I'm like, you know what? All of
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  S2: us look awkward. Yes. All of.
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  S4: Us. Jonathan's trying to say exactly. It's a shared feeling.
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  S2: It was, but I didn't see it at the time.
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  S3: Right. You think you're the only one that looks horrible?
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  S2: Because Sarah was the cool girl, and her clothes always
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  S2: looked stylish. Her hair always. This was my eighth grade mindset.
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  S2: But then I was like. Sarah was awkward to.
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  S3: Sarah also didn't know how to take a picture because
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  S3: she was also 13.
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  S4: I was like, wait a minute.
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  S2: The whole crew, the popular girls, the pretty girls, we
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  S2: were all awkward. Everybody was awkward. School picture day. What's
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  S2: your favorite school picture day moment? Do you have a
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  S2: photo that you still that still circulates on Facebook or
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  S2: is still posted in your mom or your grandma's house
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  S2: because you were just so cute, honey.
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  S3: Oh, I was so, so yeah.
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  S4: Thank goodness for grandmas.
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  S3: I was very grateful that senior pictures were a little
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  S3: bit different than regular pictures, and they took place at
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  S3: different times and things like that. Because I got for
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  S3: my senior year, my wisdom teeth taken out. Oh, boy.
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  S3: The day before, I had to go collect all my
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  S3: books and everything like that. And and so I didn't
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  S3: have to take those pictures. But I did get an
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  S3: ID picture that day for that whole year. And I
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  S3: have these gigantic yellow and purple cheeks. And because my
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  S3: mouth was just so swollen from the day before and
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  S3: I was like, I have to go the entire year
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  S3: with this as my ID. Now, thankfully, it was just
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  S3: my ID picture. Yeah. But yeah, day after getting your
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  S3: don't schedule it.
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  S2: Like that's not the day to get any.
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  S4: Picture.
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  S2: Taken. I'm sorry for.
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  S4: That.
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  S3: It's okay. We made.
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  S2: It. We're talking back to school this week. How bold
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  S2: are you? When it comes to asking for what you want.
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  S2: Some people have a knack for man. They have. They'll
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  S2: walk right up to the customer service desk. They will
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  S2: not flinch. My sister's one of those people. She is
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  S2: a master at getting. Whether it's a refund or an upgrade.
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  S2: She just has a knack for doing this. Are you
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  S2: one of those people who doesn't flinch in those direct conversations?
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  S2: Getting what you want would love to hear from you,
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  S2: I am not. I struggle.
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  S4: Like.
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  S2: I get awkward, I get shy. Do you get what
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  S2: you want when you ask for it? Are you bold
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  S2: enough to ask for what you want?
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  S1: It's Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
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  S2: How bold are you when it comes to asking for
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  S2: what you want? Sometimes it can feel intimidating if you
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  S2: have to go up to a customer service desk and
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  S2: you don't want the fight, you don't want the hassle.
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  S2: Sometimes you feel like, I don't want to be a burden.
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  S2: I know they've got a lot going on. I want
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  S2: to tell you about a guy named Josh young. That's
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  S2: his name. And he did an experiment that I find fascinating.
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  S2: So he. For 100 days he challenged himself to deliberately
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  S2: ask for things that he fully expected to hear. No.
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  S2: So like.
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  S4: Interesting.
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  S2: Unique things. Wild things. So he asked a flight attendant
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  S2: to let him make an announcement on the airplane, went
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  S2: up to a homeowner, asked if, hey, can I plant
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  S2: a rose in your yard? Asked to co-pilot an airplane.
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  S2: Asked at a burger restaurant. Not for a drink refill,
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  S2: but hey, can I get a burger refill? And he did. Yeah. No,
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  S2: this is not a joke. He's an author. He's done
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  S2: Ted talk. He's an entrepreneur.
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  S4: Wow.
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  S2: So the his goal was to train himself to not
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  S2: fear the. No.
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  S3: Huh. I like that.
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  S2: So he was rejected in a business situation. And so
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  S2: he realized that sometimes the fear of rejection itself can
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  S2: hold you back.
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  S4: All right.
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  S2: So he just started this experiment.
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  S3: He wanted to train himself by asking for things. He
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  S3: really thought people were just gonna say no.
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  S2: He would hear no to. Yeah. To take the sting
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  S2: and the fear out of the no.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: Okay. He discovered something really interesting. Would you believe that
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  S2: with all of these wild requests, he got far more
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  S2: yeses than he realized?
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  S4: I was wondering. Yes.
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  S3: I figured that probably surprised him quite a bit.
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  S2: So, for example, he walked into a donut shop, popular chain.
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  S2: He says, hey, can you make me donuts that are
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  S2: colored like the Olympic rings?
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  S3: Mhm.
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  S4: All right.
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  S2: And in about 15 minutes, an employee went back, disappeared,
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  S2: came out, not only made him colored donuts shaped like
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  S2: the Olympic rings he gave. She gave them to him
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  S2: for free.
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  S4: What?
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  S3: Why? He didn't even.
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  S4: Ask.
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  S2: He didn't even ask for that, right? Because she didn't
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  S2: think that they were, like, as perfect as she would
• 9:59
  S2: have liked them to be. Okay, that airplane announcement that
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  S2: he asked for asked a flight attendant. She said, sure.
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  S2: Go ahead. He asked a police officer, hey, can I
• 10:10
  S2: sit inside the police car just for a minute and
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  S2: pretend to drive it? The officer said, sure, go ahead.
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  S4: Okay, wait a minute.
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  S2: No joke.
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  S3: I guess. And he took the keys out.
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  S2: Can you imagine the audacity to make these some sort
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  S2: of requests? These are kind of the kind of things
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  S2: people don't ask for.
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  S3: No. Absolutely not. I want to know, did he get
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  S3: his burger refilled? Because I'd like to try that. If
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  S3: he did.
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  S2: I don't.
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  S3: Know. Okay, I'll have to check.
• 10:36
  S2: You can try.
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  S3: It. I'll try it.
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  S2: So he got 49 yeses. No no no no. 49
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  S2: no's 51 yeses.
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  S3: Wow. So most of the time.
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  S2: So more often than not. So it was about a
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  S2: 5050 split skewed just a little bit toward the. Yes.
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  S3: But certainly these are more outlandish things that you wouldn't
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  S3: expect to hear yes. From.
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  S2: Totally. Would you.
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  S4: Ever ask.
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  S2: Would you ever ask a police officer, hey, can I
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  S2: sit in the car.
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  S3: And pretend to drive?
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  S2: I don't think that's happening in.
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  S3: Most places.
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  S2: But he made the ask.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: Crazy.
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  S3: That's really cool.
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  S2: It.
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  S4: You have to ask.
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  S2: You have to.
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  S4: Get you.
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  S2: Know, you have to have a level of. I don't
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  S2: care what you think to make those kind of asks because,
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  S2: you know, not only do you expect to hear a. No.
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  S2: You expect to maybe be laughed at, maybe have somebody
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  S2: look at you, look at you like you're absolutely crazy.
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  S3: Mhm.
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  S2: I don't like that feeling.
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  S3: No, it's a hard feeling.
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  S2: I don't like to ask for things that I don't
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  S2: think I'm going to get a yes to.
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  S3: Mhm.
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  S2: That feels. I don't know about you guys. Does that feel.
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  S2: Does it feel uncomfortable?
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  S3: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. If I have to ask for something
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  S3: and like, this is this is what I feel, I
• 11:53
  S3: did it because it's not that crazy at all. But
• 11:57
  S3: yesterday I was at the pool with my family, and
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  S3: my daughter wanted a pool noodle, which are only accessible
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  S3: through the lifeguards. And so.
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  S4: You didn't want to.
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  S3: Ask. I had to go to a lifeguard and ask
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  S3: him if he could stop what he was doing and
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  S3: go get me a pool noodle. And I was like,
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  S3: I know he's gonna say yes, but I felt nervous
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  S3: about asking.
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  S2: Yes, that is very normal. We don't want to bother people.
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  S2: We don't want to be a burden, and we don't
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  S2: want to put ourselves out there to hear the no.
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  S2: So we just kind of like shape our requests into
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  S2: kind of yes sized portions.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: We lower our expectations.
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  S4: Absolutely.
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  S2: To make sure that we don't hear too many no's
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  S2: because the nose feels scary.
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  S3: Or we don't ask at all.
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  S2: Or we don't ask at all. What happens when we
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  S2: take that approach? And that's how we interact with God.
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  S2: That's how we approach our prayer life. This feels like
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  S2: a lot to ask. I don't really want to hear no,
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  S2: I don't want to get the rejection here. He's got
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  S2: a lot of other things going on. I don't want
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  S2: to burden him with this one. Let's go to Luke 11.
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  S2: Coming up.
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  S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to cast and crew.
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  S2: Are you bold enough, audacious enough to make the ask,
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  S2: to ask for the promotion, to ask for the refund
• 13:18
  S2: that you feel like is owed to you, even though
• 13:22
  S2: initially you get denied. There's something that feels uncomfortable about
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  S2: making those kind of requests. I want to take you
• 13:31
  S2: to Luke 11. Now. Jesus was praying in a certain place,
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  S2: and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, Lord,
• 13:38
  S2: teach us to pray as John taught his disciples. And
• 13:41
  S2: he said to them, when you pray, say. And this
• 13:45
  S2: is going to sound very familiar to you. Father, hallowed
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  S2: be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day
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  S2: our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we
• 13:55
  S2: ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And lead
• 13:58
  S2: us not into temptation. And depending on where you read
• 14:01
  S2: that in the Gospels, you may have memorized it a
• 14:03
  S2: little bit differently. But Jesus gives them not a prayer
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  S2: to a recite, but a template for how to pray.
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  S2: But then he doesn't stop there. He tells them a parable.
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  S2: And he said to them, which of you, who has
• 14:19
  S2: a friend will go to him at midnight and say, friend,
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  S2: lend me three loaves. For a friend of mine has
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  S2: arrived on a journey, and I have nothing to set
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  S2: before him. And he will answer from within, do not
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  S2: bother me. The door is now shut and my children
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  S2: are with me in bed. I cannot get up and
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  S2: give you anything. I tell you, though he will not
• 14:39
  S2: get up and give him anything because he is his friend,
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  S2: yet because of his impotence, he will rise and give
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  S2: him whatever he needs. And I tell you, ask and
• 14:48
  S2: it will be given to you. Seek and you will find.
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  S2: Knock and it will be open to you. For everyone
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  S2: who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds. And
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  S2: to the one who knocks it will be open. Okay,
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  S2: let's think about this for a second. He tells them
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  S2: a parable about a need that he that they may have.
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  S2: You have someone who arrives at your home and you
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  S2: have nothing to give them. So you go to your
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  S2: friend's house and it is late, late, late. And you say,
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  S2: as you knock on the door, hey, give me three
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  S2: loaves of bread. Doesn't matter that it's three in the morning,
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  S2: and this friend of yours is going to say, don't
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  S2: bother me.
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  S3: Makes sense.
• 15:38
  S2: Sleeping. My kids are sleeping.
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  S4: Understandable.
• 15:42
  S2: Keep it pushing. Yeah.
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  S4: Exactly.
• 15:45
  S2: But wait. He is not necessarily going to be motivated
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  S2: by his friendship with you. That's not enough. Not his loyalty.
• 15:57
  S2: Not even his spirit of generosity. But because of your impotence,
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  S2: which just means shameless, bold, audacious request. Kind of out
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  S2: of the norm of what's expected. Only time this particular
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  S2: word is used because of your impotence. He'll give you
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  S2: what you're asking for. Fascinating, right? How much more a
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  S2: good God who does care about you. So it's sort
• 16:34
  S2: of this lesser to greater argument That if the lesser
• 16:39
  S2: is true, then the greater must be true. It goes
• 16:44
  S2: on in that same passage. What, father among you, if
• 16:46
  S2: his son asks for a fish, will. Instead of a fish,
• 16:49
  S2: give him a serpent. Or if he asks for an egg,
• 16:52
  S2: will give him a scorpion. If you then who are evil,
• 16:55
  S2: know how to give good gifts to your children. How
• 16:57
  S2: much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit
• 17:00
  S2: to those who ask him? Your bold, shameless request is
• 17:06
  S2: likely to result in you getting your need met by
• 17:10
  S2: your friend, simply because you were bold enough to ask
• 17:14
  S2: and think about this. If my neighbor came to me,
• 17:17
  S2: had the audacity to come to me at 3:00 in
• 17:20
  S2: the morning because they needed something, I think the boldness
• 17:25
  S2: of that request would make me likely to give them
• 17:29
  S2: what they needed, even though I probably would think I agree.
• 17:34
  S2: Are they out of their mind? Do they know what
• 17:38
  S2: time it is? Do they know how inconvenient this is?
• 17:43
  S2: But because of the boldness. I'd probably do it. And
• 17:46
  S2: you probably would too.
• 17:47
  S3: That's fair. You're like, well, you're already here.
• 17:50
  S2: Already here.
• 17:51
  S4: Well, and it has to be. There has to be
• 17:52
  S4: something to it because you are here at this time
• 17:54
  S4: of the morning. You're you were bold enough.
• 17:57
  S2: To ask if that sort of boldness, that sort of
• 18:01
  S2: shameless ask, works with the friend who's motivated by not loyalty,
• 18:08
  S2: not even friendship, but your own boldness. A good God
• 18:12
  S2: wants to give good gifts to his children. So what's
• 18:16
  S2: the takeaway? Ask and it will be given to you.
• 18:20
  S2: Seek and you will find. Knock and it will be
• 18:22
  S2: open to you. And there's a picture of persistence here
• 18:25
  S2: to keep asking, keep seeking, keep knocking. Don't be shy
• 18:32
  S2: about making the ask, especially when it comes to a
• 18:37
  S2: good father who wants to give good gifts to his kids. Yeah,
• 18:43
  S2: we can't hold back. And this may be something that
• 18:47
  S2: you've heard many times before. I've heard this ask, seek, knock, ask,
• 18:51
  S2: and it will be given to you. Seek and you
• 18:53
  S2: will find. Knock and it will be opened to you.
• 18:55
  S2: And sometimes we can get stuck in a place of going, well,
• 18:58
  S2: I've tried that before and I wanted this or I
• 19:02
  S2: asked for this. And God didn't answer in the way
• 19:05
  S2: that I thought he would, or I'd hoped he would.
• 19:08
  S2: And so what can happen is there's an element of
• 19:11
  S2: mystery there. We don't always understand how God moves. We
• 19:15
  S2: trust that he does move, but we can start to
• 19:18
  S2: rightsize our requests based on thinking, ah, does he really
• 19:23
  S2: mean this? I mean, this is a pretty, pretty bold
• 19:27
  S2: thing for Jesus to tell his disciples. Yeah, he told
• 19:32
  S2: this in response to their question or to their ask
• 19:36
  S2: of Lord, teach us to pray.
• 19:38
  S4: Yeah.
• 19:39
  S2: He didn't just give them the Lord's Prayer, which is
• 19:41
  S2: a great start. He gave them a story, a parable
• 19:46
  S2: where the takeaway ask. Yeah, ask big.
• 19:50
  S3: The definition of the word is shamelessness.
• 19:52
  S2: Shamelessness.
• 19:53
  S3: Yeah. Just come shamelessly.
• 19:55
  S2: The shameless. Ask ask, seek, knock. Then ask again. Seek again,
• 20:02
  S2: knock again. Keep asking.
• 20:05
  S1: She was trying to earn her way to God, but
• 20:08
  S1: God showed her. She didn't have to. Ali is in
• 20:11
  S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 20:15
  S2: Back to school week here on Carl and Crew. We're
• 20:17
  S2: going to tackle a topic that is near and dear
• 20:19
  S2: to the heart of every believer. It's one of the
• 20:22
  S2: challenging things of walking with the Lord is trying to
• 20:25
  S2: make sense of pain, suffering, hardship, of. Sometimes when you
• 20:31
  S2: feel like you've cried out to God for relief and
• 20:34
  S2: it hasn't come. Doctor Gerald Peterman is a professor here
• 20:37
  S2: at Moody Bible Institute. He's also a contributor to the
• 20:40
  S2: Moody Bible commentary, which we use often around here. He's
• 20:44
  S2: teaching a class called Biblical Theology of Suffering. When students
• 20:49
  S2: sign up to take this class. I wonder what they
• 20:52
  S2: expect because this is this is a very, very this
• 20:56
  S2: is a difficult topic.
• 20:57
  S5: It is. But one of the reasons they sign up
• 21:00
  S5: is that other students have taken the course, and it
• 21:04
  S5: has helped them. And they've been just really surprised by
• 21:08
  S5: the by, by how much it's touched their heart. And
• 21:10
  S5: so then they think, I want that. And so the
• 21:13
  S5: class fills up like within seconds after it's been offered.
• 21:16
  S2: Yeah. You know, suffering touches every person, believer or nonbeliever.
• 21:20
  S2: We all live in a fallen world. We are tainted
• 21:23
  S2: by our own sin, but also by the sin of others.
• 21:26
  S2: How do you start to develop a framework for understanding
• 21:29
  S2: and making sense of. Often what seems difficult to understand,
• 21:34
  S2: and that's putting it mildly.
• 21:35
  S5: Well, I think we have to start with Jesus. I mean,
• 21:38
  S5: that's that's often our answer. We have to start with Jesus. Yeah.
• 21:42
  S5: And so we look at the life of Christ in
• 21:45
  S5: this class and we ask questions. What kind of emotional
• 21:51
  S5: pain did he have? Because that's the way we're defining suffering,
• 21:54
  S5: not just a physical pain, but but an emotional pain.
• 21:58
  S5: And there's, there's plenty of material for us to look at.
• 22:01
  S2: Okay, so give me a couple examples of where we
• 22:03
  S2: see the emotional suffering of Jesus.
• 22:05
  S5: Yes. Right. So it's only in John's gospel that when
• 22:11
  S5: Jesus tells I'm going to be betrayed, that John says
• 22:15
  S5: Jesus was troubled. Well, of course, knowing that someone's going
• 22:21
  S5: to betray you is, is it pierces our heart. So
• 22:26
  S5: what if we're in Jesus's position? Are we allowed to
• 22:30
  S5: feel troubled? My response is yes, of course, because if
• 22:34
  S5: he feels it, it's a it's a godly kind of suffering.
• 22:39
  S5: I mean, even without physical pain, yet he's he's suffering
• 22:44
  S5: about the betrayal. Another example is, um, in Mark ten,
• 22:48
  S5: some parents bring their kids to Jesus and the disciples say, hey,
• 22:52
  S5: we're not doing children's church here. Send them away, you know,
• 22:55
  S5: and Jesus is indignant. That's that's the kind of anger
• 23:01
  S5: and anger hurts us. It's a it's a painful emotion.
• 23:08
  S5: And so. Well, if Jesus can feel this and we
• 23:11
  S5: know that's got to be righteous, then maybe there are
• 23:14
  S5: times when our anger is righteous, too. Which means now
• 23:19
  S5: we're we're put in a position where we think, God,
• 23:22
  S5: help me to direct my painful emotions in the right
• 23:25
  S5: way to, to feel the right sort of painful emotions,
• 23:29
  S5: as opposed to not feeling the wrong kind that are
• 23:32
  S5: going to bring you dishonor. But but to be but
• 23:36
  S5: to be. Holy Spirit led in how I'm thinking about
• 23:40
  S5: my pain and suffering.
• 23:41
  S2: Wow. You know, it's interesting that that's the starting point
• 23:44
  S2: is understanding just the emotions that Jesus felt. And therefore
• 23:49
  S2: a little bit of a model of how we can
• 23:50
  S2: process those emotions and not sort of dismiss or feel
• 23:54
  S2: like a shame about the pain that we, that we
• 23:58
  S2: feel as we go through life. Right? Is that, is
• 24:00
  S2: that my understanding that correctly?
• 24:02
  S5: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We're both tracking in the same direction.
• 24:05
  S5: You know, Jesus had. Jesus had positive emotions too. You know,
• 24:10
  S5: he rejoiced at his heavenly father was drawing poor people
• 24:14
  S5: to him. Young people to him, ignored people to him.
• 24:18
  S5: He rejoiced in that. And so we can imitate Jesus,
• 24:23
  S5: shall we say, fun emotions or enjoyable emotions. But of course,
• 24:26
  S5: our topic here isn't why is there joy? Our topic
• 24:29
  S5: is why is there suffering and their suffering in the world?
• 24:34
  S5: Because the world is still filled with evil and disappointment
• 24:38
  S5: and pain and betrayal. And so it's natural for us
• 24:42
  S5: to have the negative emotions that go with that. Now.
• 24:45
  S5: How are we going to work through them? How are
• 24:46
  S5: we going to express them becomes the question.
• 24:49
  S2: You know, one of the things that oftentimes I've gotten
• 24:52
  S2: stuck here, everybody's gotten stuck in the why. Like, why
• 24:55
  S2: is this happening to me or to my loved one
• 24:58
  S2: or to my family? Why? Why isn't God relieving my suffering?
• 25:03
  S2: And nobody's ever been able to fully capture a satisfying, okay, well,
• 25:08
  S2: this is why that feels like, okay, yeah, now I
• 25:11
  S2: get it. But how do you help students grapple with the,
• 25:14
  S2: the wrestling that comes with the why?
• 25:17
  S5: Well, like you mentioned, Ali, we might not always get
• 25:19
  S5: the answer, but how do we try to kind of
• 25:22
  S5: pursue it? Or how do we try to pursue God
• 25:25
  S5: while we're trying to find the answer. And we do
• 25:28
  S5: that by lament. We do that by honestly bringing our
• 25:33
  S5: painful thoughts, feelings, and words to the Lord. The Psalmists
• 25:37
  S5: do this all the time. About a third of the
• 25:40
  S5: Psalms are lament psalms. And so if we're going through something,
• 25:45
  S5: God has invited us by His Word to bring these
• 25:50
  S5: painful emotions to him. So we might go to O
• 25:54
  S5: amongst many to choose from. We might go to Psalm
• 25:55
  S5: 88 and read through it and pray through it and,
• 26:00
  S5: and ask, Lord, help me to feel the way you
• 26:04
  S5: want me to feel. Lord, take these painful questions that
• 26:07
  S5: I have and help me to bear them. I think
• 26:10
  S5: we've been given lots of examples in the life of Jeremiah,
• 26:13
  S5: in the life of Jesus, in the life of Paul,
• 26:15
  S5: and in the life of David and the Psalm writers
• 26:18
  S5: ways we can speak out to the Lord with our
• 26:22
  S5: painful emotions, and he will help us carry them, not
• 26:26
  S5: necessarily always resolve them. But the issue is, I think,
• 26:30
  S5: our perseverance through the trial and continuing to trust. And
• 26:36
  S5: it's it's easy to trust when days are good, right?
• 26:38
  S4: Yeah.
• 26:39
  S2: Now, I'm certain that in the course of teaching something
• 26:42
  S2: like this, you have no doubt had things in your
• 26:46
  S2: own personal life that have caused you to experience pain, trial, suffering. Uh,
• 26:51
  S2: not asking for details here, but how has this kind
• 26:55
  S2: of working through this helped prepare you for the seasons
• 26:59
  S2: that you've gone through?
• 27:01
  S5: Oh, yes. Um, the two have overlapped quite a bit.
• 27:04
  S5: Teaching this course nearly 20 years, I think I've become
• 27:09
  S5: much more open with God. Uh, much, much more able
• 27:13
  S5: to bring painful emotions, say things that sound offensive. But
• 27:18
  S5: then again, Jeremiah, you know, says things, some things to
• 27:23
  S5: God that sound unreasonable. Yeah, right. So over the course
• 27:27
  S5: of teaching this class to students, I think I've learned
• 27:30
  S5: to be more honest with God.
• 27:32
  S2: Mhm. And you mentioned how students often like to finish
• 27:36
  S2: the course, and they are deeply touched by the learning,
• 27:38
  S2: I'm sure processing through some of what of their own
• 27:41
  S2: personal suffering, but also preparing them, those who are going
• 27:45
  S2: to go into ministry for ministering to people who are suffering,
• 27:49
  S2: which we we know from the book of job that
• 27:51
  S2: it's there's many, many ways to get it wrong. How
• 27:54
  S2: do you help students there where they can be good ministers,
• 27:58
  S2: that they can comfort others with the comfort that they've received?
• 28:01
  S5: Right, right. I think the primary issue becomes how do
• 28:05
  S5: we listen? How do we how do.
• 28:07
  S2: We how do we say less?
• 28:09
  S5: Yeah. How do we say less and listen better? It's
• 28:11
  S5: always a challenge for us. But part of what we
• 28:14
  S5: try to drive home in the course is since you
• 28:18
  S5: want to be listened to when you're suffering, since you
• 28:22
  S5: want to be listened to with respect while you talk
• 28:25
  S5: about your pain, you have to give the same thing
• 28:28
  S5: to the other, the love the other person as you
• 28:31
  S5: would want to be loved. But it's got to be patient.
• 28:33
  S5: But it also has to be wise in your in
• 28:36
  S5: your listening to them. So the primary issue is how
• 28:40
  S5: do we listen? And since we've listened to you in
• 28:43
  S5: class and you've listened to each other in discussion groups
• 28:46
  S5: in class, now you've got some training to listen to
• 28:50
  S5: a parishioner, and I've got some training to listen to
• 28:52
  S5: a friend or listen to a stranger take a deep breath, say,
• 28:56
  S5: tell me more. I think that helps them.
• 28:58
  S2: Well, there's something so powerful about just presence and.
• 29:02
  S5: Indeed.
• 29:03
  S2: Somebody just being with you, walking with you, sitting with you.
• 29:07
  S2: And you're right. I mean, so often people will say like,
• 29:09
  S2: I don't have the words to say. And so a
• 29:11
  S2: lot of times people will shy away from pain and suffering.
• 29:13
  S2: And I don't want to say the wrong thing. And
• 29:16
  S2: usually saying nothing is probably better, right?
• 29:19
  S5: Saying nothing.
• 29:20
  S2: Just showing up, saying nothing.
• 29:21
  S5: Right? Just maybe giving us some aha! Or again, tell
• 29:26
  S5: me more. Um. What we don't want to do is say,
• 29:28
  S5: you can't be angry about that. This, this is just,
• 29:32
  S5: this is just going to end the conversation. But rather,
• 29:35
  S5: I can see why you're angry about this. Tell me more.
• 29:38
  S5: What are you doing with your anger about this? Are
• 29:41
  S5: you are are you allowing yourself to talk to God
• 29:44
  S5: about your discouragement and your depression? Because again, the Psalm writers,
• 29:49
  S5: they do this. And so we could do it too. I, yeah,
• 29:52
  S5: I think for some odd reason, the enemy has us
• 29:55
  S5: tricked into thinking we have to be silent. We don't
• 29:58
  S5: have to be silent. And God gives us words that
• 30:01
  S5: we can speak, and then words that we can speak
• 30:03
  S5: back to others when they need our encouragement.
• 30:07
  S2: Have you ever had a student in your class, like
• 30:09
  S2: wrestle with this or have to work through some of it? Like,
• 30:13
  S2: what are the things that they struggle with when it
• 30:15
  S2: comes to learning this theology of suffering.
• 30:19
  S5: Well, 2 or 3 things. One of them is I
• 30:22
  S5: often encounter a student who's been taught something particular about, say,
• 30:27
  S5: Philippians four rejoice in the Lord always. Which means something
• 30:32
  S5: like 24 over 7365. You're joyful. Yeah. So if you're not,
• 30:38
  S5: therefore you're sinning. No. Wait wait wait. Okay. I say,
• 30:42
  S5: I understand that, and I think joy should mark the
• 30:46
  S5: Christian life, but it wouldn't have to be what what's
• 30:49
  S5: experienced every minute of every day. Yeah. Let's go back
• 30:52
  S5: to Philippians, shall we? It's in the book of Philippians
• 30:55
  S5: that Paul says, as I write this letter to you,
• 30:59
  S5: I weep over the enemies of the cross. So you
• 31:04
  S5: get at least two things from Paul, the transparency of
• 31:07
  S5: his sadness and the call to rejoicing. So often we
• 31:11
  S5: have to ask, can you leave behind this view that
• 31:14
  S5: joy must be the 24 over seven experience of the Christian.
• 31:18
  S2: Yeah. Doctor Gerald Peterman our guest this morning. Such a
• 31:21
  S2: rich discussion. We're going to have to put a pin
• 31:23
  S2: in it there. I want you to get more about
• 31:25
  S2: Moody Bible Institute. So much happening here. That's for you
• 31:29
  S2: for continuing education. Maybe you have a high school student
• 31:32
  S2: who wants to do some dual enrollment. Just text Moody
• 31:34
  S2: to 805 557898, text Moody to 805 557898. Also want
• 31:43
  S2: to invite you to get our show cast. If you
• 31:44
  S2: want to listen or share this conversation, text show to
• 31:48
  S2: our number. Show 805 557898. Just that one word show
• 31:54
  S2: 805 557898.
• 31:58
  S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow cast
• 32:01
  S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
• 32:04
  S2: So glad to have you with us on this Thursday morning. Man,
• 32:08
  S2: this back to school theme has been wow. So incredible.
• 32:12
  S4: Really good.
• 32:13
  S2: So these professors, uh, I mean, we are so blessed
• 32:17
  S2: here at Moody Bible Institute to.
• 32:19
  S4: Have.
• 32:20
  S2: Truly some of the finest thinkers theologians in the country. Yeah,
• 32:25
  S2: right here in downtown Chicago.
• 32:27
  S3: It's really amazing.
• 32:28
  S4: You know, their hearts for what they do, their hearts
• 32:31
  S4: for the gospel, their hearts for the students.
• 32:32
  S2: For the students. It really I mean, they just keep coming.
• 32:36
  S3: Yeah, it's I mean, it was really cool when I,
• 32:38
  S3: when I walked in because I haven't seen Doctor Peterman
• 32:41
  S3: in forever, but I had a class with him in
• 32:43
  S3: 2017 and it was the Gospel of John. And I
• 32:47
  S3: loved his style of teaching. His humble heart and the
• 32:52
  S3: way he engages students is incredible. And that is so
• 32:56
  S3: common of the professors that are here and the ones
• 32:59
  S3: we bring in to be on the show with us.
• 33:02
  S3: I mean, it's incredible.
• 33:03
  S2: And I just found out that he's the Q and
• 33:05
  S2: A guy on the land in the book.
• 33:06
  S4: Yes. Oh that's right.
• 33:08
  S3: I didn't know that.
• 33:08
  S2: If you listen to that show hosted by Help Me
• 33:11
  S2: Out Here Charlie.
• 33:13
  S4: Charlie Dyer and also John Jaegers on there. Sorry, Charlie.
• 33:17
  S4: No no no. Sorry, Charlie. That was cute. Forgot there
• 33:21
  S4: for a minute. Uh, 1:00 central, but check your moody radio. Yes,
• 33:24
  S4: it's one central, but yeah, check the.
• 33:26
  S2: Q&A, guys. So maybe a familiar voice to some of you.
• 33:30
  S2: If you missed any of that conversation, we just covered
• 33:33
  S2: biblical theology of suffering. Very rich. Just text showed 805 5578, 98.
• 33:40
  S2: You know, I have a high school senior and I
• 33:44
  S2: don't remember senior year when I was in high school,
• 33:47
  S2: being as full of pomp and circumstance for like 365 days.
• 33:53
  S3: What do you mean?
• 33:54
  S2: Okay, so maybe, maybe this is me getting old, but
• 33:58
  S2: this whole senior sunrise and sunset thing.
• 34:00
  S3: I don't know that.
• 34:01
  S2: Oh, have you heard of this? This is maybe.
• 34:04
  S4: This.
• 34:04
  S2: Is regional. So this is every school around here is
• 34:07
  S2: doing it. So every the whole class picks a day
• 34:11
  S2: and they go out somewhere and they watched the sun
• 34:14
  S2: rise together. Yes. Yes. No kidding. I know what you're
• 34:17
  S2: talking about. They take pictures they, like, have special gear.
• 34:22
  S2: Senior sunrise. Okay. Please give me your feedback on this
• 34:26
  S2: if you're listening. Is this just an Illinois Chicago thing
• 34:29
  S2: or a senior? Sunrise is happening across the country.
• 34:31
  S3: I went to school in Illinois. We never did senior Sunrise.
• 34:34
  S2: That's why I think this stuff is New Indiana. I
• 34:36
  S2: think that we're we're these are getting bigger and bigger parking.
• 34:40
  S2: Spot painting apparently is a thing. Oh big deal. Indiana's
• 34:43
  S2: been doing it for years. So you get a. For
• 34:45
  S2: schools that have a lot of parking and you get
• 34:47
  S2: your own spot, you get to decorate the whole park.
• 34:50
  S3: That wasn't a thing for me either.
• 34:52
  S2: You're a senior. So I mean, I'm seeing some of
• 34:54
  S2: these pictures. These people are out there like full on artists.
• 34:57
  S2: There's stripes and logos and names. What? Absolutely.
• 35:03
  S3: Yeah. That's crazy.
• 35:04
  S2: Yeah, the senior pranks. I remember that.
• 35:07
  S3: Senior pranks.
• 35:08
  S2: Oh, yeah. That's high senior. But I mean the apparel.
• 35:11
  S2: So now people are like getting whole outfits that are
• 35:15
  S2: either decorated in like the school that they're going to,
• 35:19
  S2: they're customizing jeans that are painted for like their class.
• 35:23
  S2: That's a big deal.
• 35:24
  S6: The jeans, the painted jeans, painted jeans.
• 35:27
  S3: That's a new thing for me.
• 35:28
  S2: This is all new. And don't get me started on this.
• 35:30
  S2: See your pictures. My daughter just took. When I took
• 35:33
  S2: senior pictures, I went into a studio. I put my
• 35:36
  S2: hand under my shoulder, I awkwardly smiled. They took to
• 35:41
  S2: probably 2 to 3 pictures and I was like. And
• 35:43
  S2: I got what I got.
• 35:44
  S3: Wow.
• 35:45
  S6: Yeah.
• 35:45
  S2: Next, my.
• 35:46
  S3: Daughter.
• 35:47
  S2: Just had a full on photo shoot out in the wild,
• 35:51
  S2: flowers with outfit changes, hair and makeup. I got these
• 35:57
  S2: pictures back like I'm like, I've never had pictures this
• 36:00
  S2: good in my life. It's got to be gorgeous.
• 36:03
  S6: That's great. Oh my goodness.
• 36:04
  S2: Though senior year has taken on a life of its own.
• 36:07
  S2: I wasn't ready for this.
• 36:08
  S3: Did you guys ever get, uh, Senior Assassins. Did you
• 36:11
  S3: ever play that game?
• 36:12
  S2: Oh that has I did not, because I'm apparently too
• 36:15
  S2: old for that. But I've read stories about this. This
• 36:19
  S2: sounds absolutely insane.
• 36:20
  S3: Oh, it was the best I. So I played that game, uh,
• 36:23
  S3: when I was a senior in.
• 36:24
  S2: Senior assassin.
• 36:25
  S3: Senior assassins. You get water guns and you are assigned you.
• 36:30
  S3: You play with as a pair, you're assigned another pair
• 36:34
  S3: to go and try to get. And someone is assigned you.
• 36:37
  S3: You don't know who, who's assigned to you though. And
• 36:40
  S3: it's basically, and it's not just it's actually school. School
• 36:44
  S3: hours are off limits. You can't play the game at school.
• 36:47
  S3: You have to try to find these people and hunt
• 36:49
  S3: them down and, and shoot them with a water gun.
• 36:52
  S3: And if you shoot any I won person of the pair,
• 36:55
  S3: then then that pair is out. And so, uh, I
• 37:00
  S3: remember I was leaving to go to school, I was
• 37:03
  S3: getting into my car and it was in the driveway
• 37:07
  S3: and I noticed I heard like a rustling behind a tree,
• 37:11
  S3: and I looked. And there's two people from my school
• 37:14
  S3: that are hiding behind a tree, waiting to get me
• 37:17
  S3: on my way to the car.
• 37:18
  S2: Okay, if there are two people hiding behind the tree
• 37:20
  S2: waiting to get me, I'm calling the police.
• 37:22
  S3: Well, that's fair, but it's senior assassins senior. And it was.
• 37:26
  S3: It was.
• 37:27
  S2: Wow.
• 37:27
  S3: It was two girls. I was not threatened or I
• 37:29
  S3: did not feel unsafe. And so I booked it because
• 37:32
  S3: my my street, my cul de sac was connected to
• 37:36
  S3: a highway. I ran all the way to the highway
• 37:38
  S3: and they stopped chasing me. I, I snuck through backyards,
• 37:44
  S3: snuck in through the back door of my house, stole
• 37:46
  S3: my brother's car keys, and used his car that was
• 37:48
  S3: parked around the other side of the house to get
• 37:50
  S3: to school. Okay. They found me, sat on the hood
• 37:54
  S3: of my car, and waited. So what I did was
• 37:57
  S3: I just slowly put it in reverse, and I smacked
• 37:59
  S3: the gas pedal real quick, and it jumped backwards, and
• 38:02
  S3: they rolled off the hood of the car.
• 38:04
  S2: And so dangerous for so many reasons.
• 38:06
  S6: Wow.
• 38:07
  S3: Yeah. That was that was 12, 13 years ago now.
• 38:10
  S3: So it's okay. They're fine.
• 38:11
  S2: I am blown away by this. I'm getting some response
• 38:13
  S2: from you. 5641 I'm with you, they said. Haha. We
• 38:17
  S2: walked across the stage and moved our tassels. I, I
• 38:20
  S2: agree that was kind of the extent of the senior
• 38:22
  S2: year celebration.
• 38:23
  S3: But.
• 38:24
  S2: Senior Sunrise seems to be a thing across the country.
• 38:27
  S2: Thank you for confirming. Akron, Ohio. We do senior sunrise,
• 38:31
  S2: Fort Payne, Alabama senior sunrise on the first day of school.
• 38:36
  S2: Our girls painted jeans. Wow. Okay for sure. Shoreland High
• 38:39
  S2: School in Wisconsin had senior sunrise. My senior went and
• 38:43
  S2: I was left wondering, what is this and what is
• 38:46
  S2: the point?
• 38:46
  S6: What is this?
• 38:47
  S2: I'm all for the celebration. I like. I, I'm gonna
• 38:50
  S2: go all in with my senior. I'm gonna we're I'm
• 38:52
  S2: going to let her do it all. It's just.
• 38:54
  S3: You gotta.
• 38:55
  S6: You have to it's fun.
• 38:56
  S2: It's puzzling to me because maybe here we go again
• 39:00
  S2: sounding old. Maybe my generation just didn't know how to
• 39:02
  S2: celebrate as well.
• 39:04
  S3: Well, I think that that's the thing is just that.
• 39:06
  S3: Not that your generation doesn't know how to celebrate, but
• 39:09
  S3: that over time, people have started to say, hey, this
• 39:14
  S3: is kind of like a big deal where we're going
• 39:16
  S3: into a whole new phase of life. Let's enjoy this
• 39:19
  S3: last year before everything changes for the rest of your life.
• 39:23
  S2: I think it's great. And I'm, you know, maybe I
• 39:25
  S2: should come up with some version of it for maybe
• 39:28
  S2: I can do a senior sunrise. It's more like senior citizens. Sunrise.
• 39:32
  S2: I'll be there. Hey, you want to meet out on
• 39:38
  S2: the lake before dawn?
• 39:42
  S1: This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 39:46
  S2: Well, this back to school week here on Carl and
• 39:49
  S2: Crew Moody Bible Institute has been back in school for
• 39:51
  S2: about a week now, and so some of our favorite
• 39:54
  S2: professors have volunteered to come in and to help teach
• 39:58
  S2: a little bit of what they're teaching in their classes
• 40:00
  S2: this semester. Travis Williamson is up this morning, associate professor
• 40:04
  S2: of applied linguistics here at Moody Bible Institute. First of all,
• 40:08
  S2: what exactly is linguistics?
• 40:11
  S7: Good question. I get it a lot of times.
• 40:13
  S2: I'm sure you do.
• 40:14
  S7: Linguistics is the study of how languages work. If we're
• 40:16
  S7: not studying any given particular language in our courses, but
• 40:19
  S7: we're learning about all the different variety of grammatical structures
• 40:24
  S7: and phonological sound systems of the world languages, so that
• 40:26
  S7: when my students cross a language boundary in bringing the
• 40:30
  S7: gospel to the ends of the earth, they're able to
• 40:33
  S7: cross that boundary with confidence. And when they encounter new
• 40:36
  S7: sounds in a world language or new grammatical things, they're
• 40:39
  S7: not surprised by them. They have the categories in their
• 40:41
  S7: mind so as to be able to make sense of them.
• 40:45
  S7: Right from the very beginning.
• 40:46
  S2: You had something interesting happen in your first week of
• 40:49
  S2: is it grammatical analysis? You have a class on grammatical analysis. Yeah.
• 40:54
  S2: Tell me what happened in that class just this last week.
• 40:56
  S7: Doesn't that sound exciting? Yeah, it really does.
• 40:59
  S2: I'm a word person.
• 41:00
  S7: Great. Well, so am I. We can talk about that.
• 41:03
  S7: Grammatical analysis is one of our technical classes, so it's
• 41:06
  S7: one where we really dig into grammatical structures, morphology, how words,
• 41:10
  S7: pieces of words are put together into larger words. And
• 41:12
  S7: we're just getting started. So last week was the first
• 41:14
  S7: week and we it was our first day of real
• 41:16
  S7: analysis class. And so I gave them a bunch of
• 41:19
  S7: problems like we did together in class. And then for
• 41:21
  S7: the last ten minutes, I let them kind of work
• 41:24
  S7: on their homework together in pairs. And so the whole
• 41:26
  S7: room is buzzing with sound and just kind of people saying, oh,
• 41:29
  S7: I think the number one and number three are showing
• 41:31
  S7: us this, but then another person says, no, but number
• 41:34
  S7: five kind of gives us a different angle on that.
• 41:35
  S7: So I think this is that or this is that.
• 41:38
  S7: And it's just kind of I'm roaming around kind of
• 41:40
  S7: learning about what, what they're thinking, how they're thinking about it.
• 41:43
  S7: At the end of class, one of the students in
• 41:45
  S7: the front row, he's like, bro, are you going to
• 41:47
  S7: like this class? And it's just kind of energizes me
• 41:50
  S7: because a lot of people think about, oh, grammatical analysis,
• 41:52
  S7: that sounds so dull. But when you're when you're a puzzler,
• 41:55
  S7: you take things apart, you put things back together. Language
• 41:58
  S7: is full of complexity. And this guy was just locking
• 42:01
  S7: into the the complexity of that language.
• 42:04
  S2: Now, what are these students? What for most of them,
• 42:07
  S2: what is their aim? How do they eventually want to
• 42:10
  S2: use their study of linguistics for the sake of the gospel?
• 42:14
  S7: Yeah, great. My, myself, I was a linguistics major when
• 42:17
  S7: I was a student at Moody back in the early 2000.
• 42:20
  S7: I went on to do Bible translation. The program was
• 42:22
  S7: actually designed for that kind of track, as is more
• 42:26
  S7: the core of what it was designed for. For those
• 42:28
  S7: that are crossing language barriers in order to bring scriptures
• 42:30
  S7: into unwritten and undeveloped languages. That's maybe a third of
• 42:35
  S7: my class is doing that. This particular young man wants
• 42:37
  S7: to work with a dying language over in the British Isles.
• 42:40
  S7: And so he kind of has a passion for the
• 42:43
  S7: the technical side of things. But there are other students
• 42:46
  S7: are across the board. I have some that are thinking
• 42:47
  S7: teaching English as a second language, and they want more
• 42:50
  S7: of a grammatical and they want more of a linguistic
• 42:52
  S7: basis of that. But then others. I have two students
• 42:55
  S7: in that particular class that are wanting to help with
• 42:59
  S7: literacy development among minority languages around the world, so that
• 43:03
  S7: as English and as Spanish and Mandarin, Chinese are kind
• 43:07
  S7: of encroaching upon these languages through the internet, that they
• 43:10
  S7: have a written system, they have a literacy kind of component.
• 43:14
  S7: If their language is desiring that so as to be
• 43:16
  S7: able to maintain their language and culture in the midst
• 43:19
  S7: of a globalized society, and then others just say, I
• 43:21
  S7: want to cross the language barrier. I want to be
• 43:23
  S7: involved in missions. And I know that learning a language
• 43:25
  S7: is really, really important to connecting with locals. And so
• 43:28
  S7: they're able to, um, beef up their linguistics so that,
• 43:32
  S7: like I said, they can cross that language barrier with confidence.
• 43:35
  S2: Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your work in Ethiopia.
• 43:38
  S2: I know you and your wife served there for, for
• 43:40
  S2: some time. And how did you use your linguistics background there?
• 43:45
  S7: Yeah, from 2009 to 2019, we lived over in Ethiopia
• 43:49
  S7: working among the Gumuz people. The Gumuz are in the
• 43:52
  S7: northwest part of Ethiopia where they are, um, their Christianity
• 43:56
  S7: has has come to their, there's a variety of denominations,
• 43:59
  S7: but our project was set up to bring all the
• 44:02
  S7: denominations together that we might then translate the scriptures alongside
• 44:06
  S7: them into their language. And so this then empowers the
• 44:09
  S7: pastors and the evangelists, and not just go out and
• 44:11
  S7: proclaim the word from memory, but rather they can actually
• 44:14
  S7: show that God speaks their language. They show that the
• 44:18
  S7: message applies to them as well. And so we got
• 44:20
  S7: the privilege of walking with that church through the full
• 44:23
  S7: New Testament project. And then each summer on my moody breaks,
• 44:26
  S7: I get to go back and we're still working on
• 44:28
  S7: Old Testament. We finished the Psalms last summer and we're
• 44:31
  S7: just finishing Genesis this past summer.
• 44:34
  S2: Wow. What what's what would you say are 1 or
• 44:37
  S2: 2 of the biggest challenges of that kind of work? Because,
• 44:39
  S2: I mean, for those of us who maybe only speak
• 44:42
  S2: one language, sometimes it's very hard to think outside of
• 44:45
  S2: just our, our, our English. For me, obviously, it's what
• 44:50
  S2: are the biggest challenges of that kind of translation work?
• 44:53
  S7: I think a lot of it is mental because we
• 44:55
  S7: all learn English well, or we all learned our first
• 44:57
  S7: languages really well. As children, when we become adults, we
• 45:00
  S7: complicate things a lot. We try to think like adults.
• 45:03
  S7: We learn through flashcards instead of through just playing. And
• 45:06
  S7: so in my second language acquisition classes, which I teach
• 45:09
  S7: in the spring, we go back to the play model
• 45:11
  S7: and we have all these toys spread out in front
• 45:13
  S7: of us, and we're learning some of the most difficult
• 45:15
  S7: languages in the world, like Korean and Mandarin and Japanese.
• 45:19
  S7: But by the end, all of my students are able
• 45:21
  S7: to have a five minute conversation. So if we can
• 45:23
  S7: get ourselves out of the way and kind of be
• 45:26
  S7: a little bit immersed in the language that our brains
• 45:28
  S7: do what they were designed to do by, by God,
• 45:30
  S7: I believe then we're able to, to cross it with
• 45:33
  S7: confidence as well as with a whole lot of fun.
• 45:36
  S2: You know, it's interesting, I think about sometimes when you
• 45:38
  S2: hear someone give a sermon or even a devotional, a
• 45:41
  S2: lot of times someone will read a passage of scripture
• 45:43
  S2: and then they will isolate a word and they say, well,
• 45:45
  S2: this word in the original Greek means this, and then
• 45:49
  S2: they'll expound upon it a little bit. And I don't know,
• 45:51
  S2: to me, it always sounds like they're really super smart
• 45:54
  S2: because they're quoting the original Greek. How beneficial is it
• 45:58
  S2: to be able to know, like Greek, for instance, to
• 46:00
  S2: be able to have greater understanding of the Bible? Or
• 46:03
  S2: is that overplayed? Do we over rely on trying to
• 46:06
  S2: pick out individual words to bring the original Greek or
• 46:09
  S2: the original Hebrew?
• 46:10
  S7: Yeah, I'm kind of on both sides of that issue, okay.
• 46:12
  S7: Because I do believe in Bible translation. I believe that
• 46:15
  S7: as we've been given the gift of many translations in
• 46:17
  S7: our English language, those translations are not really competing with
• 46:21
  S7: each other, but they have different translation philosophies. And so
• 46:23
  S7: as we read like a New Living Translation versus an ESV,
• 46:27
  S7: NIV kind of in the middle of them, just different
• 46:29
  S7: translation philosophies, all trying to capture something that is beautifully
• 46:32
  S7: written in the Greek or Hebrew languages. However, I also
• 46:36
  S7: teach Greek. And so I really believe the importance of
• 46:39
  S7: of learning Greek when I study the Greek text or
• 46:41
  S7: when I hear a pastor refer to the Greek, I'm
• 46:43
  S7: always flipping on my phone or into my Greek Bible
• 46:46
  S7: to see, okay, what, at what point are they making
• 46:48
  S7: that so that I can disagree with them or something,
• 46:50
  S7: but I want to I want to go to that
• 46:51
  S7: level with them if they're taking us to that level.
• 46:54
  S7: I don't think the average Christian absolutely needs to. But
• 46:58
  S7: I do think that within a church setting, those in
• 47:00
  S7: in Christian leadership should have the confidence to be able
• 47:04
  S7: to approach the Greek text so that when they're preaching upfront,
• 47:07
  S7: they've studied it not just through the translation, but they've
• 47:10
  S7: gone behind the scenes a little bit to see how
• 47:12
  S7: it was originally formed in the Greek or the Hebrew.
• 47:16
  S7: And so I really think that that's an important step
• 47:18
  S7: in there. Is it overblown? No, I don't think so. Okay.
• 47:22
  S7: But at the same time, it doesn't need to be.
• 47:24
  S7: We don't need to bring all of our congregation into
• 47:26
  S7: the Greek. As long as they can have confidence in
• 47:29
  S7: us that we've studied it to that level.
• 47:32
  S2: You know, remember the first time hearing somebody say, um, well,
• 47:35
  S2: this translation doesn't capture it as well as. And it
• 47:38
  S2: was shocking to me because I thought, whoa, what are
• 47:40
  S2: they saying? Like the word of God is infallible. It's
• 47:42
  S2: without error. How could it be that this translation doesn't
• 47:46
  S2: capture the original intent of the author? That was, for
• 47:49
  S2: some reason, kind of a mind blowing thing to wrestle with.
• 47:52
  S2: What do you say to that when people talk about
• 47:54
  S2: the different translations, the shortcomings of not being able to
• 47:58
  S2: fully capture maybe what a word was originally intended, or
• 48:01
  S2: we apply it or understand it differently, speak to that
• 48:04
  S2: a little bit.
• 48:05
  S7: Yeah. In a sense, I agree with it. No translation
• 48:08
  S7: ever captures the entirety of the original, because when you're
• 48:12
  S7: moving from one language to another language, it's two different
• 48:15
  S7: ways of framing the world. And so anything framed in
• 48:19
  S7: an English context is not going to perfectly overlap with
• 48:22
  S7: anything framed in a Hebrew or a Greek context. However,
• 48:25
  S7: the amount of overlap is immense in my mind, especially
• 48:28
  S7: for reading, reading multiple English translations. There's an old proverb
• 48:31
  S7: that says translators are traitors, which means you've left something
• 48:36
  S7: behind by translating the message. But I think God is
• 48:39
  S7: bigger than that. Yes, there's nuance in the Greek text
• 48:42
  S7: that we can't capture well in English, or we try
• 48:45
  S7: to capture one piece of the nuance, but we actually
• 48:47
  S7: kind of distorted another piece of it a little bit,
• 48:50
  S7: which is why going back into the original text allows
• 48:53
  S7: us to kind of feel with full confidence that, okay,
• 48:56
  S7: the nuance of this one is the one that it
• 48:58
  S7: was originally communicated in. And so accessing that original meaning
• 49:01
  S7: in the original language, there's nothing that beats it. And so,
• 49:05
  S7: but at the same time, I don't want to discredit
• 49:07
  S7: the work of translators because I think God, even in
• 49:10
  S7: the way that he communicated his message, he affirmed translation
• 49:14
  S7: through the use of the Septuagint, for example, in the
• 49:17
  S7: New New Testament, that is, the Greek translation of the
• 49:20
  S7: Old Testament is quoted in the Greek original of the
• 49:22
  S7: New Testament. So God is not afraid of translation. In fact,
• 49:26
  S7: I think it kind of enhances his glory in a
• 49:28
  S7: sense that he can be communicated, he can be expressed,
• 49:31
  S7: revealed in all languages of the world.
• 49:33
  S2: Beautiful. Travis Williamson, associate professor of applied linguistics in the
• 49:38
  S2: intercultural Studies department here at Moody Bible Institute. If you
• 49:41
  S2: want more on Moody and all that is offered here,
• 49:44
  S2: just text Moody to 805 557898. Hope you did some
• 49:49
  S2: good learning. You had your notebook out. Just text Moody
• 49:52
  S2: to 805 557898.
• 49:56
  S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then
• 49:59
  S1: he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Colin
• 50:03
  S1: Crew on Moody Radio.
• 50:05
  S2: Well, one of the joys of back to school time
• 50:08
  S2: is this become kind of an annual tradition on Colin
• 50:10
  S2: Crew of bringing in Moody Bible Institute professors, and we
• 50:14
  S2: asked them, hey, can you teach us a little bit
• 50:16
  S2: of what you're teaching in your classroom this semester? We
• 50:19
  S2: have Brian with us right now. He's a professor in
• 50:21
  S2: the program, head of communications at Moody, right here in
• 50:25
  S2: downtown Chicago. You specialize in the theology of communications and culture.
• 50:31
  S2: Those are words that not everybody would put together. Theology.
• 50:34
  S2: We think, okay, study the Bible, uh, exegesis and all
• 50:39
  S2: of the different terms that you use there, but theology
• 50:41
  S2: of communications and culture. Let's get the set up here.
• 50:45
  S8: That has been my passion. This is my 19th year
• 50:48
  S8: here at Moody. And when you know about the Moody
• 50:50
  S8: Bible Institute, you know it is three parts radio, publishing
• 50:54
  S8: and education. So it would make sense that we have
• 50:57
  S8: a flagship ministry, media arts program asking what the future
• 51:01
  S8: of ministry media looks like. And I think we can
• 51:04
  S8: all agree we want these to be theologically driven decisions.
• 51:07
  S8: And here at Moody, and especially in our undergraduate program,
• 51:10
  S8: we believe deeply in theologically trained communicators and media artists
• 51:16
  S8: in such a heavily mediated age where we are surrounded
• 51:20
  S8: by content 24 over seven, when everything that we do
• 51:23
  S8: on Sunday morning is an overt choice of communications, you
• 51:27
  S8: want to know that we are making theologically driven decisions
• 51:31
  S8: that help us become more formed to Christ than anything
• 51:36
  S8: else in our practices. So we have to engage the theology,
• 51:41
  S8: we have to engage the theory and the practice of
• 51:46
  S8: making in order to have a vibrant, celebratory, worshipful, uh,
• 51:54
  S8: community of Christians who are also engaging in all the
• 51:57
  S8: latest platforms and techniques and technologies that there are.
• 52:00
  S2: You know, when you mentioned content creation and we are
• 52:03
  S2: certainly surrounded by we get fed content 24 over seven.
• 52:08
  S2: I've been in from every different direction, no matter what
• 52:11
  S2: platform that you're on, whether it's YouTube or Instagram or
• 52:15
  S2: Facebook or others that I'm sure that I'm probably too
• 52:19
  S2: old to even be on. What are the, what are
• 52:22
  S2: the main things to keep in mind for the, the
• 52:25
  S2: person who's putting out content, whether it's a social media post,
• 52:29
  S2: posting something on Facebook, just a life update versus somebody
• 52:32
  S2: who wants to do content creation in a more formal, uh,
• 52:35
  S2: even as a job.
• 52:37
  S8: Yeah, those are phenomenal questions. Uh, because one of the
• 52:42
  S8: things that this field, I refer to it as a
• 52:45
  S8: Theo Communicology because I do think we need to study
• 52:48
  S8: it alongside our other systematics. And we do want to
• 52:52
  S8: get deep enough to understand whether or not our ministry
• 52:57
  S8: media is helping us become more Christ like, or if
• 53:00
  S8: it's something else. So you can entertain and you can inform.
• 53:05
  S8: But if we're going to consider ministry media, we need
• 53:08
  S8: to know that it is part of our spiritual formation.
• 53:12
  S8: And for that, we can really begin to understand more
• 53:16
  S8: about how we shape our messages. And our messages shape us.
• 53:20
  S8: Who we're spending all of this time with is formative.
• 53:24
  S8: That's why I think we all believe so much in
• 53:25
  S8: the Ministry of Moody Radio. So when we begin to
• 53:30
  S8: think in a deeply theological way, we are able to
• 53:34
  S8: align ourselves with some of the the leading theory in
• 53:37
  S8: the field. And that is how our media in a
• 53:40
  S8: modern age is ecological, not just technical. It is around us.
• 53:45
  S8: We live among it. We are part of it. It
• 53:48
  S8: is a part of us. It's easier to think of
• 53:51
  S8: technology as additive, but it is more ecological. It is
• 53:54
  S8: easier to think of our messages as mere transmissions. But
• 53:58
  S8: even in a very transnational technology like what we're doing
• 54:02
  S8: right now, everybody who cares about these formats understands that
• 54:07
  S8: good communication is dialogical. You are always trying to create
• 54:10
  S8: a dialogue with your listeners. You do it with pretty
• 54:13
  S8: much every which way in which you do your job
• 54:15
  S8: so well. You want to create a dialogue. You want
• 54:18
  S8: to create a common unity around our shared identity in Christ,
• 54:22
  S8: and that is you exemplifying your theology of communication and culture.
• 54:27
  S8: What I think everybody needs to really begin to wrestle
• 54:30
  S8: with is that you have a theology of communications and culture,
• 54:34
  S8: whether you know it or not.
• 54:36
  S2: Oh, explain.
• 54:37
  S8: Well, the way in which you communicate, what you're trying
• 54:39
  S8: to accomplish. Well, very much reveal how you believe communications
• 54:45
  S8: and meaning and ministry work or happen or function. These
• 54:51
  S8: technologies are very much extensions of ourselves. We extend ourselves
• 54:55
  S8: over these wires. In a sense, we disincarnate ourselves into
• 54:59
  S8: these new technologies and they disincarnate technology should be of
• 55:03
  S8: great concern to an incarnate church. What are we trying
• 55:08
  S8: to accomplish through our message making? Are we trying to
• 55:12
  S8: just change minds, or are we trying to mirror the
• 55:15
  S8: relationship that we have in Christ through these new formats?
• 55:20
  S8: Are we caught up in efficiencies and techniques and technologies
• 55:24
  S8: and mass production, or are we more concerned about the
• 55:28
  S8: quality and the meaning of our content? Are we willing
• 55:32
  S8: to just outsource our agency to AI and let it
• 55:36
  S8: mass produce copies of what we can verify as accurate,
• 55:42
  S8: and then still call that ministry media. Can we allow
• 55:46
  S8: our churches to just become virtual remote watch from living
• 55:50
  S8: room and still call it church Sunday morning? We can
• 55:54
  S8: all agree that there are countless ways that we have
• 55:57
  S8: been invited to construct our our gatherings of worship. If
• 56:03
  S8: I asked your listeners or ask anybody on the street,
• 56:05
  S8: how many different ways are there to do a gathering
• 56:08
  S8: of Christians on Sunday morning? Would not the answer be unlimited?
• 56:12
  S8: That should be humbling. And likewise, isn't the same answer
• 56:17
  S8: to how many ways are there to get it wrong?
• 56:19
  S8: Would that also not be unlimited? Do we want mere
• 56:24
  S8: technicians or best practices or trends or styles guiding these decisions?
• 56:30
  S8: Or do we want to be able to work outwardly
• 56:33
  S8: from our commonality in Christ and make very concrete decisions
• 56:37
  S8: about how we are to communicate what we are to
• 56:39
  S8: communicate in this world? We understand who Christ is, we
• 56:43
  S8: understand what Christian community is, we understand what our commission
• 56:48
  S8: is in the light of the Bible. So the Bible
• 56:51
  S8: becomes our instruction about who Christ was and what Christian
• 56:54
  S8: community is, and what we're commissioned to do, and then
• 56:57
  S8: we can work outwards to our communications choices.
• 57:00
  S2: You know, that last part really caught my ear, because
• 57:03
  S2: I think one of the challenges, whether you are posting
• 57:06
  S2: something personally, whether you're working as part of a media
• 57:09
  S2: team at church, is that whenever you whenever there is
• 57:13
  S2: an audience, there's always the temptation for it to be
• 57:17
  S2: about what is going to. Let's take social media. What's
• 57:21
  S2: going to drive up engagement, what's going to kind of,
• 57:25
  S2: you know, the algorithm we want we want to keep
• 57:28
  S2: showing up in people's feed, what is going to help
• 57:30
  S2: build the brand. And words like that can start to feel, oh,
• 57:36
  S2: it gets dicey quickly, right? And so checking our motives.
• 57:41
  S2: What are we wanting to do here? Is it just
• 57:44
  S2: to get more followers or to get more people to
• 57:47
  S2: like and subscribe? How do how do you help students
• 57:51
  S2: get that balance where. Yes, you. If you want to,
• 57:54
  S2: if you're wanting to put out content, if you're wanting to,
• 57:56
  S2: to influence through communication, an audience is necessary, right? But
• 58:01
  S2: you don't want to start letting the audience drive the
• 58:04
  S2: decisions and not our shared commitment to Christ.
• 58:08
  S8: Yeah. That is right at the heart of some of
• 58:10
  S8: these riddles where, um, I think our tradition was able to,
• 58:15
  S8: because of our place in time and history and position
• 58:18
  S8: in the culture and wealth, able to quickly adopt a
• 58:21
  S8: lot of technologies and have access to these mass communications platforms.
• 58:25
  S8: And then we begin to work backwards, like, what are
• 58:28
  S8: the best techniques, what works? What are the metrics? Those
• 58:32
  S8: are not wrong questions, but they're not the first questions.
• 58:35
  S8: And then very quickly you get into what we would
• 58:38
  S8: consider ethical questions. So we want definitely want Christian ethics
• 58:43
  S8: at the helm of some of these decisions where, no,
• 58:46
  S8: maybe we shouldn't be engaged in outrage algorithms just because
• 58:50
  S8: they work right. It'll get more followers. But is that
• 58:53
  S8: what we're supposed to be doing? Right? Or you can
• 58:55
  S8: get a little bit deeper and say, well, what are
• 58:57
  S8: the media theorists say about how to these platforms are
• 59:01
  S8: working ecologically in our environment? Those are also really valuable studies.
• 59:06
  S8: Our way out is not technique and best practices. It's
• 59:10
  S8: not ethics. It's not even good theory. It is good theology.
• 59:15
  S8: And one of the things that is so rich at
• 59:17
  S8: the Moody Bible Institute is these students kind of come
• 59:20
  S8: in already getting that they're not from the era of
• 59:24
  S8: mass communication. They are from the era of niche communication.
• 59:28
  S8: And if someone listens to their podcasts and it's only
• 59:33
  S8: five people back home, but those five people listened because
• 59:36
  S8: it's them who would not listen to some big, um,
• 59:40
  S8: you know, influencer type. Well, praise God for that. Or
• 59:44
  S8: more so, a lot of the modern students very much
• 59:47
  S8: are abandoning digital spaces. That's very challenging.
• 59:50
  S2: Really.
• 59:51
  S8: For all of the people who are still five years behind,
• 59:53
  S8: trying to figure out how to reach certain demographics in
• 59:57
  S8: digital spaces. For example, this is a very important year
• 1:00:00
  S8: in higher education, a very important year in the generational shift.
• 1:00:04
  S8: This is the year that the freshmen were born in 2008.
• 1:00:09
  S8: 2008 is the year we've been waiting for for a
• 1:00:12
  S8: very long time. 2008 is when the internet became fully
• 1:00:15
  S8: mobile and socialized on the screen. This is the true
• 1:00:20
  S8: screen generation 2008 is also the great financial crisis. So
• 1:00:24
  S8: there's just less of them. And they come in having
• 1:00:28
  S8: grown up on the screen. And we wonder what's going
• 1:00:31
  S8: to happen when this generation, who has had most of
• 1:00:34
  S8: their imagining done for them by screens first generation in history.
• 1:00:37
  S8: What happens when they become 18 and get to college?
• 1:00:40
  S8: And then, right as that happens, AI drops on them. Well,
• 1:00:44
  S8: if you think of, well, what does that mean for
• 1:00:46
  S8: mass communication? That's a very old question. What it means
• 1:00:50
  S8: for that generation primarily, and again, moody students are very
• 1:00:52
  S8: uniquely selected group who care very much about, um, formation
• 1:00:56
  S8: in Christ. They're not choosing digital things. They're choosing live
• 1:01:01
  S8: tangible had to be there events. They're choosing tangible books.
• 1:01:06
  S8: They want to produce a reader's Bible. They want to
• 1:01:10
  S8: produce a community hymnal. They want to produce new liturgies
• 1:01:13
  S8: and prayers that they know were written by people they
• 1:01:16
  S8: know and not written by some computer or some algorithm.
• 1:01:20
  S8: And that should be encouraging to all of us. But
• 1:01:23
  S8: it does raise an entirely new set of questions that
• 1:01:26
  S8: I think a lot of us are behind on asking
• 1:01:29
  S8: and answering.
• 1:01:30
  S2: So the generation that born in 2008 spent. They've only
• 1:01:36
  S2: known a life on screens could actually be the one
• 1:01:39
  S2: that's pushing us back in the other direction.
• 1:01:43
  S8: Even that that we might be automatically like, that's good,
• 1:01:46
  S8: good news. But I would even tell them, don't do
• 1:01:49
  S8: it because you're being reactionary. Do it because you're being
• 1:01:53
  S8: driven by your theology driven. Do it because that is
• 1:01:55
  S8: who you see in the life of Christ as recorded
• 1:01:58
  S8: in the Bible. And let. Let your Christology shape your
• 1:02:02
  S8: communicology and they get it. They. They're given all of
• 1:02:07
  S8: the variables, all of the tools in their pocket. They
• 1:02:09
  S8: are they've been called digital natives their entire life. And
• 1:02:13
  S8: you cannot get a lot of them to care about
• 1:02:15
  S8: social media or website. Not interested, not taking the class,
• 1:02:19
  S8: don't want the job. So if you spent ten years
• 1:02:20
  S8: preparing for that kind of thing, right? Also, why I
• 1:02:24
  S8: really think it's amazing to be able to, to do
• 1:02:26
  S8: this in the environment here at Moody because, um, I
• 1:02:30
  S8: don't have to wait ten years for a Barna study
• 1:02:32
  S8: to come out. I had to go ask them. Figure
• 1:02:35
  S8: out where they are, where their platforms are, how much
• 1:02:38
  S8: they care about numbers. And for the most part, yes,
• 1:02:42
  S8: we do care about monetization and numbers and economies of scale,
• 1:02:47
  S8: but not at that deep, pure, idealistic sense that we
• 1:02:50
  S8: get to really live in in the educational environment. What
• 1:02:52
  S8: they really care about, and what is really a signature
• 1:02:55
  S8: of our program is how meaning is made. They want
• 1:02:58
  S8: to make things that are meaningful, that matter, that have
• 1:03:01
  S8: cultural significance. But just because it's meaningful doesn't mean it's true.
• 1:03:06
  S8: And that's again, where our theology comes in. Yeah. So
• 1:03:09
  S8: how do I, how do we they want to know
• 1:03:11
  S8: how to know if what they're making is truly ministry media.
• 1:03:16
  S8: And that should inspire all of us. That should get
• 1:03:19
  S8: us all excited about what are they making? What do
• 1:03:22
  S8: they want to make? What are they saying? How are
• 1:03:24
  S8: they saying it? And let's be honest, a lot of
• 1:03:27
  S8: what they make and what they say isn't for me.
• 1:03:30
  S8: I don't always understand it, Standard, but it matters to them.
• 1:03:34
  S2: Yeah. Brian Roselle, professor and program head of communications here
• 1:03:37
  S2: at Moody Bible Institute. Fascinating conversation. Text Moody to 805 557898.
• 1:03:45
  S2: For more on the communications department and everything else Moody
• 1:03:48
  S2: has to offer, just text Moody to 805 557898.
• 1:03:54
  S1: Finding nuggets of truth in Everyday life.
• 1:03:57
  S9: It's a metaphor. It's just a metaphor, dude.
• 1:03:59
  S10: That's a metaphor.
• 1:04:00
  S11: It's a metaphor. I know it's a metaphor.
• 1:04:02
  S1: It's time for making a metaphor with young thunder.
• 1:04:07
  S2: It's what we do. We give them a story that
• 1:04:10
  S2: he has no idea what's coming. He hears it. And
• 1:04:14
  S2: he has the challenge of pulling out some spiritual application.
• 1:04:18
  S2: So I am going to tell you what happened to
• 1:04:20
  S2: me last week. Okay. Okay. My son had a basketball
• 1:04:26
  S2: training at a local gym. This particular building right next
• 1:04:30
  S2: to it is a extremely narrow parking lot. The building.
• 1:04:36
  S2: Then there's the parking lot. That's. I mean, there's room
• 1:04:39
  S2: for cars, but the space between like the building and
• 1:04:42
  S2: the parked cars is very slim. Okay, I will preface
• 1:04:46
  S2: this by saying, normally I am a objectively a pretty
• 1:04:50
  S2: good driver. I have to maneuver in and out of
• 1:04:53
  S2: this one way street. Chicago driving. You got to know
• 1:04:56
  S2: how to drive. But on this day, it just wasn't
• 1:05:00
  S2: happening for me. So it started. I'm trying to back
• 1:05:02
  S2: out of the spot and I misjudged the angle. So
• 1:05:07
  S2: I pulled out and I came within centimeters from hitting
• 1:05:13
  S2: the building to the point so close that two guys
• 1:05:17
  S2: who were standing there, I see them gasp like, like
• 1:05:22
  S2: you're about to watch a crash. And so I like
• 1:05:25
  S2: it's all good. I have a backup camera. Like, you know,
• 1:05:28
  S2: I wave it off like I'm fine at this point.
• 1:05:30
  S2: They're kind of watching me because.
• 1:05:31
  S3: Well, now they gotta see.
• 1:05:33
  S2: So I go and I readjust and I attempt to
• 1:05:37
  S2: do a three point turn. Again, I misjudged the angle
• 1:05:40
  S2: this time, I kid you not. Two less than 30s.
• 1:05:44
  S2: After almost crashing into the building, I hit a dumpster.
• 1:05:47
  S2: I back into a dumpster alley.
• 1:05:49
  S12: You did not.
• 1:05:50
  S2: Thankfully, it was just a tap. There was no damage.
• 1:05:52
  S2: But I've now almost hit a building, hit a dumpster,
• 1:05:55
  S2: and these guys are looking at me like you.
• 1:05:56
  S12: Have an audience.
• 1:05:57
  S2: Who is this lady? So I attempt to do another turn.
• 1:06:01
  S2: My son's like, everybody's staring now, which only made my
• 1:06:05
  S2: blood pressure go up. So I tried it back into
• 1:06:08
  S2: yet another spot, and I get so close to the
• 1:06:12
  S2: parked car next to me that, like, I'm basically kissing
• 1:06:15
  S2: the car next to me.
• 1:06:16
  S3: Oh my goodness.
• 1:06:17
  S2: And so the guy starts walking over. I'm sweating at
• 1:06:21
  S2: this point. He starts walking over and he's like, he
• 1:06:24
  S2: started talking to me the way you would like you
• 1:06:26
  S2: would a child like a parent trying to calm an.
• 1:06:29
  S3: Overwhelmed.
• 1:06:29
  S2: Child. He's like, it's good, you're okay. It's all good.
• 1:06:34
  S2: And so it, it felt like, you know, when you're
• 1:06:37
  S2: go and you start to trip and you try to
• 1:06:40
  S2: catch yourself, but instead of catching yourself, it becomes like
• 1:06:43
  S2: a more dramatic, more demonstrative fall. Yes. That's what it
• 1:06:48
  S2: felt like. So as I finally pulled out of this lot,
• 1:06:51
  S2: like I could feel nothing but like shame and embarrassment,
• 1:06:54
  S2: like they think I'm a terrible driver. My son's sitting
• 1:06:57
  S2: here like, what in the world?
• 1:06:59
  S3: Mom, what's going on with you today?
• 1:07:01
  S2: So it was it was very humbling in that moment
• 1:07:05
  S2: to have so many errors, driving errors in front of
• 1:07:09
  S2: an audience. Jonathan, make it a metaphor.
• 1:07:11
  S3: Okay. Ali, listen, you need more space for your car.
• 1:07:19
  S3: Your car is big.
• 1:07:21
  S2: Ali got an SUV.
• 1:07:22
  S3: And it takes up some space.
• 1:07:24
  S2: It does.
• 1:07:24
  S3: And when? for your car, you try to fit it
• 1:07:30
  S3: in when you've got a bunch of other things crowding
• 1:07:33
  S3: around it. It doesn't always work very well. Sometimes there's
• 1:07:37
  S3: a little bump on the car. Sometimes people start to
• 1:07:39
  S3: gather around and watch because it may not be a
• 1:07:41
  S3: pretty sight, and it usually ends up feeling way worse
• 1:07:46
  S3: than if you might have just pulled out and found
• 1:07:48
  S3: another spot with some more space. Yeah, Jesus is the car.
• 1:07:55
  S3: Sometimes we try to park him into a really small
• 1:07:59
  S3: space where there's a bunch of other things crowding around.
• 1:08:03
  S3: I've got a I've got a little dumpster over here,
• 1:08:05
  S3: which is my entertainment time. And I've got a, you know,
• 1:08:08
  S3: another car that's parked right up against the line over here.
• 1:08:11
  S3: And maybe that's, maybe that's how I want to spend
• 1:08:14
  S3: my money and do my things for myself. And I'm
• 1:08:17
  S3: gonna try to take Jesus this car, and I'm going
• 1:08:20
  S3: to try to back him into the spot and I'll
• 1:08:23
  S3: make it work. I'll figure it out. And as you
• 1:08:25
  S3: try to do that, maybe there's a little bump, maybe
• 1:08:27
  S3: there's a little scratch, and it never works out because
• 1:08:31
  S3: we're not making the right amount of space for him
• 1:08:36
  S3: and what he deserves. The Bible tells us in Matthew 633,
• 1:08:43
  S3: but seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all
• 1:08:47
  S3: these other things will be given to you as well.
• 1:08:49
  S3: You still would have made it to the practice. Everything.
• 1:08:52
  S3: Still would have been okay. Making his space first would
• 1:08:57
  S3: have allowed that to be a lot less stressful in
• 1:08:59
  S3: your life. Life gets real stressful when we try to
• 1:09:02
  S3: shove Jesus in between all the other things that we
• 1:09:05
  S3: have going on. Make room for him first, and all
• 1:09:10
  S3: the other things will fall right into place.
• 1:09:12
  S2: Well done, well done, young thunder. He made it a metaphor.
• 1:09:17
  S2: And apparently maybe it's not driving that I have issues with.
• 1:09:20
  S2: Maybe it's just parking.
• 1:09:21
  S3: It's just parking.
• 1:09:22
  S2: I think it's just parking. The driving is fine.