Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #0192_ Katarina Szulc — You’re Not Walking in a City, You’re Walking in a Morgue | SRS

Transcript

#0192_ Katarina Szulc — You’re Not Walking in a City, You’re Walking in a Morgue | SRS · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Katarina Schultz.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Sean Ryan.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me back.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming back. You've been busy.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Truly.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: How many places have you been? When was the first?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We met like two years ago, I think.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: No, we met last year.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Was it last year?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: A little over a year ago.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. How many places have you been since then?
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Do you even count them?
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I actually couldn't tell you off the top of my head.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Everywhere.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Everywhere. It feels like, yeah, I can't tell you off
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: the top of my head.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Where's your favorite place you've been?
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: In the last year?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Ukraine.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I love Eastern Europe. And I was really interested
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: in the war and like doing the certain stories that
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I went to do that I felt like didn't have
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: any coverage. So, and everyone was so kind. Like it
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: was a very different experience for me.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Well, I mean, it's not surprising that's your favorite place,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: especially with the conversation we just had prior to being
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: on air here that your first passion is being a
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: war correspondent. That was the goal. Well, here, let me
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: give you an interdue, excuse me, an interdue, an introduction.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: You're a former traditional journalist who realized you had to
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: get out of the newsroom to understand what was really
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: happening on the ground. Now based in Mexico City, You
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: report on cartels, organized crime, and political corruption through your
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: work in borderland dispatches, often traveling directly into the regions
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: where these stories are unfolding. Today, you're back to share
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: updates on some of our past discussions and break down
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: your latest reporting from the field. Welcome back. Thanks. All right,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: so since we last spoke, I know you've spent a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: ton of time in Ukraine, but If you remember right,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I think we opened the show last time with this
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Valeria Marquez.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Valeria Marquez.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Valeria Marquez.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: And when we spoke about that, people, it really popped off.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: People wanted to know more.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: So this is just a recap for the audience. Okay.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: She was a TikTok influencer.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: She was a TikTok influencer. She also Instagram did like
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: beauty pageants and stuff. Pretty well known across Mexico and
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: particularly in Guadalajara. And she was shot three times, murdered
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: on TikTok Live last year, over a year ago now.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And for the longest time, it wasn't until last month,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: someone was officially accused by the Mexican government for putting
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: the hit on her. Prior to that, the United States
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: government actually gave their own accusation, so to speak. They
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: said that El Doble R, a major figure high in
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the ranks in CG & G, the Jalisco New Generation Cartel,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: was responsible for it. They sanctioned him, did all that business,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: the OFAC list. And then Mexico denied that, and Mexico
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: said they were still investigating. And then just recently, Mexico
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: arrested R1, R1, high-ranking member within the R's. Everyone kind
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: of has an R name in CG & G.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Why is that?
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: It's just that sort of sub-cell of CG & G
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: in a way. Los R's. R1, R2, R3.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: So these are like call signs?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, call signs. And so they arrested this individual for
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: the murder of Carlos Manso, a.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Mayor of a town in Michoacán, who was very outspoken
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: against cartels and the violence. And he was murdered in
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: broad daylight. It was an assassination, very similar to Valeria's assassination.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: So R1 was arrested for that murder. And then Omar
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Garcia Harfuch, the Secretary of Security of Mexico, did a
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: press conference saying, you know, we've finally taken someone into
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: custody for not only their ties with this major criminal organization,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: but for the murder, particularly of Carlos Manso. Now we
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: are looking for his son, who they believe put the
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: hit on Valeria Marquez. And this young man was in
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: a romantic relationship with Valeria Marquez. Actually, Luis Chaparro went
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: to Mexico and interviewed this guy who's hiding from authorities
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about that, interviewing somebody that's hiding
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: from authorities? Do you feel like there is... Have you
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: done that?
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I've definitely interviewed criminals who have... who are being looked for, yes.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Do you feel any type of responsibility to.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Give them up?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: And not my job?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Not your job.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing, right? If I can get to them,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: or other journalists can get to these individuals... How is
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: law enforcement unable to get to that point?
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: So especially in Mexico, it's definitely a level of, of,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It's, it's a, it's a lack of
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: motivation to, to get the bad guy.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Why do you think the, I mean, if these guys
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: are wanted so bad, you know what I mean? And
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I know Luis very well.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And, uh, did you watch the interview?
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know he did it. I've lost touch.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's like a, it's like a 40 minute long interview.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: He went, Even documented getting there. He actually called me
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: when the contact was first made between him and the accused.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: And was like, I think that I'm going to be
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: able to interview this guy. And he let me know
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: because I had obviously been doing a ton of reporting
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: and following the Valeria case. And I was like, can
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I go with you? And he's like, I don't think so.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: This is very much keep it low key and this
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: guy wants to clear his name. And my first question was,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: how safe do you feel? Like, do you trust that
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: this isn't a setup, right? Because there's a lot of
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: violence against journalists in Mexico, especially against individuals like us
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: who are particularly focused on organized crime in the cartels
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: and shady government officials. And he was like, I think
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: he told me he was kind of 50-50. He was
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: leaning towards more that it was legit interview but that
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: it was worth the risk. And I fully agreed with that.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: So he went and spoke to this individual. I watched
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: the interview. This kid wants to clear his name and
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: says that he was in a relationship with Valeria, but
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: he would never kill her. He actually cared about her.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: And he was living in an apartment building really close
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: to the beauty salon, her beauty salon, where she was
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: murdered in. Because, you know, for people watching who don't know,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: She was on live in her beauty salon and she
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: was getting messages that she was going to receive gifts
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: that day, which wasn't uncommon for Valeria. Uh, a lot
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: of people liked her. A lot of people had crushes
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: on her. She was a really attractive young girl. And, um,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: she first, she receives two gifts first receives a gift, uh, um,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: A delivery driver on a motorcycle comes and brings her
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Starbucks and then brings her a pig teddy bear, like
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: a stuffed animal, a pig, which right off the bat,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: bad sign in Mexico. You know, there's a lot of
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: times where hits are taken out or people are assassinated
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: and a pig head doesn't happen so much anymore, but
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: perhaps in like early 2010s. A pig head would be
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: left there to signal that that murdered person was a
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: rat or, you know, dirty puerco. So she gets that.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Doesn't really clock it, but she does start to say
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: in this live, I'm worried. I'm nervous. I feel like
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: something's wrong. She says at one point, I think they're
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: going to levantarme. They're going to kidnap me. And at
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: the same time, her best friend, Vivian, is texting her,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: telling her, don't, because she wanted to end the live.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: And her best friend is telling her, don't leave. Wait,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: there's a really expensive gift coming for you. And Valeria
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: says in the live stream, ooh, an expensive gift. Un
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: regalo costoso. She says that. And then the delivery guy,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: you can't see what's happening outside of the salon because
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: her camera, her phone is facing her and there's a
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: wall behind her. but she's looking outside of the salon.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: And I guess she sees that the delivery guy is
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: coming and she mutes the live. And at that point,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: the individual comes in and shoots her three times and
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: she dies holding the pig stuffed animal. And in this
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: interview with the individual who's accused of killing her or
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: putting the hit on her, he says that he loved
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: her that they had fights, but he never would have
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: killed her. And there was documented conflict and toxicity in
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: her relationship with him. She posted screenshots on her Instagram
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: story of how someone she was in a relationship was
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: threatening her in messages saying, you don't want to find
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: out what kind of guy I become or what I'm
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: capable of when you piss me off. And I think
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: if I remember correctly in the interview.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Did Luis bring that up in the interview?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: What did he say to that?
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: About the threats and stuff. And I don't know if
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: he said explicitly those messages, but he brought up the talk.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: or how she had claimed one time that when she
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: showed up to a nightclub that he was at, he
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: got her kicked out. And, um, the, the accused says,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: you know, we're just like two young people in love
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: and it's part of a toxic relationship. Of course we
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: had conflict like any relationship, but, never to the point
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: where I would want her to be killed is what
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: he said. But I mean, when you, and he says
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: that she knew what family he came from and that,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you know, she knew his dad, his parents, his family
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: and vice versa. He knew hers, but I think, I mean,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: my opinion doesn't matter on this case, but when, You're
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: talking about someone who, you know, he claims that he
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: cared about her and never wanted her to die and
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: that it should have never resulted in that. Then go
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: to the authorities. Speak your truth, you know?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So was that R1 he interviewed?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: No, R1' s son.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: R1' s son.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: So R1 is accused of killing Carlos Manso. And in
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: the same breath, his son was accused of asking R1
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: to send someone to kill Valeria.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Is R1' s son affiliate– I mean is he active in
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the cartels or is he just got a relation to R1?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Well, he says no and that it's his family and
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: he– what everyone does is their business type of thing.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: But read between the lines.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Why do you think– when these guys are wanted, I
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: can see this guy because he wants people to think
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: he's innocent.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: He's innocent. He wants to clear his name.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: But let's just go back. I mean– You've interviewed guys
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: that are wanted by authorities. What are they doing? That's
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: just shitty tradecraft to me. Why are they talking to
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: investigative journalists? Why are they not undercover all the time?
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Is that the ego? Do they just want to see
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: themselves in the media?
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Ego is part of it, but a big part, too,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: is getting their version out. It's PR. And we've seen
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: this time and time again with cartels. They're big into PR.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: They'll put out sort of their own, like, press releases,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: whether that be, like, they'll start circulating an official document
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: or when they put the narco banners around the city
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: or near dead bodies. That's PR for them. They're sending
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: messages to the public. Even you'll see videos. The Cartel
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: del Noreste is really... known for this, where they'll set
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: up a camera.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: C.G. and G.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Does this too. They'll set up a camera and you'll
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: have all the armed operatives of the cartel and then
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: one guy in the middle announcing a message, saying something.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: They did that for a lot of big news stories
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: that came out, painting them in a really bad light.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: to kind of clear their names or clarify the details
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: of whatever they're doing. And then when it comes to
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: speaking to journalists, it's, of course, a combination of PR. So,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: you know, like for this accused killer of Valeria, now
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: there's this interview of him speaking his so-called truth, right?
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So he can kind of, in his hopes, clear his name,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: give his side of the story, but also... It sends
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: a message of, yeah, ego and power. Catch me if
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: you can. You know, there's this manhunt for me and
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting here comfortable speaking to a journalist on camera
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: for the world to see.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I wonder, I mean, why don't you think that, how
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: bad do you think they really want these guys?
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Who, Mexico or the US?
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Either one. I mean, it seems like it'd be pretty simple.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe not you, but money talks. You know, it would
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: be pretty simple to flip a journalist or introduce a
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: fake news organization and build rapport through time. Like, oh,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: look at all these articles reporter A has done since, well,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: started today, 2026. Then a couple of years go by
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: and it's just, you know what I mean? And then
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: you can use this army of undercover journalists to feed
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: these guys' ego to find out where they are. Done.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think it would take long to replace,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you know, to replace the leadership. I mean, if there
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: was a point in time during the global war on terror,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: where I think the number two had like a, we
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: were killing the number two every two weeks. Yeah.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Which is happening now.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? So I don't think it
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: would be any different with the cartel, but still, I mean,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: it's a, It makes people, you know what I mean?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: It shows we can get to you.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I would hope that they don't start using journalists as, like,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: boys like that because I would not get any access
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: and my life would be in danger.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, though, right? Yeah. That's why
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I'm asking, like, it can't be. If you're getting to
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: them and Chaparro is getting to them and all these
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: other journalists, I mean, they can't be that hard to
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: get to. You just have to build some type of
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: a presence. Report. To feed that ego.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that too. I think also because, you know, I
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: have a really good track record of, well, a clear
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: one of being able to speak with victims and perpetrators,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: high level individuals, and they don't get caught afterwards. You know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not like leading them into like a trap. That's
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: actually my biggest fear. Like if that were to ever happen,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I'm super careful about that. I'm more scared of that
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: than just getting shot dead, like set up. But I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: think when you ask how badly do they want them,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Mexico doesn't want them badly. Cartels make up so much
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: of Mexico's economy. You eradicate cartels, you eradicate the Mexican economy,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: point blank. And so many high-level politicians, ranking officials that
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: are on the payroll that directly benefit off of organized crime.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Why would they want that to end?
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. I mean, it makes sense. It does make sense.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: So what is the... Let's switch gears here a little bit.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: What's the landscape like down there? Who's in charge now?
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: There's always a battle. So it's like a full-scale war
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: down there.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: I mean... It really is. Did you see what I
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: posted yesterday? There were car bombs and IEDs going off
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: in Zacatecas, Mexico because... there's a very active cell of
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: CGNG in Zacatecas called Fuerzas Zacatecas Nueva Generación, so New
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Generation Zacatecas Forces. It's a sub-cell of CGNG. And there's
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: someone who I've actually been, who's kind of on my
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: radar within that cell, who's been really quickly climbing through
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: the ranks of power. And it's very clear that this
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: cell of CG and G is becoming a very violent
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: and powerful one.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Before, before we go into it. Sorry.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I get it.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. I don't, I don't let me forget
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that either. Yeah. The landscape. I mean, I think last time,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, it seemed, I think it was Sinaloa. Yes.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: It was kind of running everything.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So no, it was when I spoke to you last time,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: it was CG and G and Sinaloa was already fully
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: in their whole civil war, the infighting. Um, And now it's,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: of course, CJNG, extremely powerful. And they're essentially absorbing the
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Chapitos faction of the Sinaloa cartel, El Chapo's faction, because
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: they made an alliance with them fighting against the Mayos
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Mayito Flacos faction of the Sinaloa cartel. And when I
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: was in Sinaloa this summer, I went to Culiacan and
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: across Sinaloa for a couple of weeks just to kind
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: of get the two-year update since El Mayo was captured. Sean,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: it was like, you're just, you're not walking in a city,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: you're walking in a morgue, okay?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Sheesh.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: From the moment I got there, I drove from Mazatlán
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: to Culiacán because I wanted to go through the towns
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: and kind of try to get a grasp of who's
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: controlling which areas because it's ever-evolving. And When you're going
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: through these small towns and you're taking that highway from
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Mazatlán to Culiacán, and I took the old highway, not
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the new highway. So it's like, I guess in layman's terms,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: like more dangerous, like just to really understand it. You
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: can see who's controlling there. You know, you'll see the
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: white sombreros, which represent, okay, this area, Mayitos faction. And
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I drove through there. As soon as I touched down
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: in Culiacán, You know, I let all my journalist friends
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: over there, incredible journalists over there, fucking fearless. I told them,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm coming, like, keep me in the loop
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: with any big activity. As soon as I got there,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: they're like, all right, there has been a murder. You
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: want to pull up? It was far. I didn't end
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: up going. And then there was another one. And then
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: there was another one. So within the first four hours
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: that I got to Culiacan, I think I went to
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: six different crime scenes. I posted that video on my
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: YouTube channel. and you just see me going from one
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: scene to the next to the next. And as the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: clips go on, you know, the sun is just going down.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: And it's just constant. It was brutal. And at a
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: lot of these scenes, you know, family is outside distraught, crying.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: And I showed that in my video. And some people
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: gave me flack. They were like, you're so stupid. insensitive.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: This is the reality of it. And I think a
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: lot of the times the collateral victims of war and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: cartel violence are these family members. They're also victims of
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: murder in a way. Their lives change forever. And it's very,
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've probably seen it. One thing that really
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: gets me, it's not seeing the dead body. People ask like,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: how do you see the dead body? It's not about that.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: What I find is to be the most jarring is
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: when you literally see the shift in the victim's families.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: You literally watch the realization happen in real time that
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: their lives will never be the same again. Like tonight
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: is my first night without my son for the rest
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: of my life. And they witnessed him get killed. But
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of these murders, well, most of them in Sinaloa,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: these victims are are involved in organized crime. This civil
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: war continues on. And a lot of the people being
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: murdered now are people who are switching sides. So a
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: lot of people have switched from Chapitos faction to Mayos faction,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Mayto Flacos faction. And those people are the ones being
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: targeted heavily.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I'm always skeptical of health products that look clean on
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: the front of the label, and then you turn it
• 21:33
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• 21:40
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• 21:42
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• 21:46
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• 21:51
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• 22:08
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• 22:13
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• 22:18
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  Speaker 1: to justaddbuoy.com slash Sean and use code SRS. Well, that's
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: interesting you bring switching sides up because that's where I
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: wanted to go with this. How often are you seeing
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: power exchange in Mexico from prominent cartel to prominent cartel?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I can't even keep up with it right now. Okay.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: So they own.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: The vast majority of politicians down there run off the cartels.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: And so what I want to know is how are
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: they navigating that? How are politicians down there who are
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: for sale, which sounds like it's pretty much all of them,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: not unlike the U.S.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of them.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, how do they know when to switch sides?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Or are they getting killed all the time? Because that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: can be obviously a very tricky game. Especially, I mean,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: if prominent cartel gets taken over by another cartel and
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: then this one comes back. What do you do? Exactly.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: So, okay. Great example of this is Ruben Rocha Moya,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: governor of Sinaloa. I think last time I was on
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: your podcast, I said, this guy is the most corrupt
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: motherfucker ever. And he was just indicted by the US
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: a couple months ago. This is someone who has had
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: a very strong alliance with with the Chapitos faction of
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the Sinaloa cartel with El Chapo. And he has been
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: profiting off of it for a long time openly at
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: the cost of the people in that state. Now, to
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: kind of paint you a picture, he was having a
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: sort of dispute with a state legislator in Sinaloa. This
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: was right before El Mayo was captured. And this was
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: kind of part of the whole bigger picture of how
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: the Sinaloa Cartel or how El Chapo's faction, at least,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: and his family are going to move forward and be protected.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: So when El Mayo was captured, it was because he
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: was set up by El Chapo's son to go to
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: a meeting to resolve the conflict between the governor of Sinaloa,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Rocha Moya, And this state legislator, his name escapes me
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: right now. When he gets there, he allegedly gets beaten
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: up and then he ends up on that small aircraft
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: that lands him in Santa Teresa, New Mexico, where he's
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: taken in by the FBI. Rocha Moya walked out of
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: that meeting alive and continued to be governor of Sinaloa.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: The legislator was murdered. during that encounter. So I think
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: what a lot of these politicians are doing, they're playing
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: the game as far as they can get to the
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: point where I think a lot of them at this point,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: particularly their hands are sort of tied. I'm not defending
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: them by any means. I hate these guys, but their
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: hands are tied in the sense of they can't move
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: too much to the left or too much to the
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: right or talk to this guy or do this action
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: because they will get murdered.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: So Yeah, it's... Do they have a choice? I mean,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: are they interested in monetary value, you know, and being
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: paid off? Or are they interested in just keeping their lives?
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: You know what my belief about this is?
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Hot take.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: If you're going to become a politician in Mexico and
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: you want to be a good politician, either fucking stand
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: your ground and be willing to die for it and
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: be good, or don't do it. Because the only other
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: option is you're doing it either with the incentive to
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: make dirty money and be on the payroll or you're
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: doing it scared and haphazardly and accepting the pay or
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: doing what they want and you're a bad politician and
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: everyone's suffering because of it.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I guess there's no surprises either at this point. I mean,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious what you're walking into.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Of course it is. Of course. Of course.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Are there any legit politicians down there?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, Carlos Manso was one of them.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: That was someone who really took a stand against organized crime.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Lili Tellez, she's in the Senate, I believe. She's a
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Mexican politician. She really speaks out against organized crime and
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: she'll call out these corrupt officials by name. But they're
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: very few and far in between. And the reason for that...
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: is because when the president of the country herself is
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: profiting off of organized crime and allowing it to happen,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: how can anyone else at a lower level be clean?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Good point. So let's move back to, you were talking
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: about somebody that you were interested in that's been rising
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: through the ranks. Ah, yeah.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: So... Zacatecas has become a hot spot. Well, I mean,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Zacatecas is always known as a big cartel hot spot.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: And any time that I go there or pitch a
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: story to do over there, no one wants me to
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: go because everyone thinks I'm going to die. Hasn't happened yet,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: touch wood. But there's a lot going on there. And
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I find that Zacatecas is a really good region to
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: kind of understand the the greater landscape of not only
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: CJ and G's control of the state, but cartels in general.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Like what we're seeing in Zacatecas is that CJ and
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: G has this stronghold and they're because of their Alliance,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: but because of just who they are, they're fighting against
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Mayo's faction of Sinaloa cartel operating in Zacatecas. This sub
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: cell formed, and it has now become extremely powerful. the
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: new generation Zacatecas forces, where they are just killing and
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: waging war against Mayto Flacos faction of the cartel and
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: any of the Mayos operating in Zacatecas, but also law enforcement.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: And they actually killed a police officer yesterday. I think
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: it was just one. It may have been more, but
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: there was one for sure. And they're really showing their
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: power there. And a lot of these guys were actually
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: with the metros under El Sapo, who's also a major
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: figure within CG & G. So, I know it's a
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: lot of names and words, but it's important because it
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: shows how all of these subcells and groups, especially pertaining
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: to CGNG, are in a way connected. And because of
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: how these subcells and certain... high-ranking plaza bosses or commanders
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: within CJNG have their own loyal followings, that has been
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: what's perpetuated this overall control that CJNG has gained across
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: all of Mexico. And that's a big part of why
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: when El Mencho was captured, killed in February, we didn't
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: see this huge... um, breakdown of CGNG and, and infighting
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: and extreme violence. I mean, you know, there was like
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: a blip of buses were on fire, a national guard
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: was getting attacked, but we weren't seeing like this restructurization and,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: and house of cards falling in of CGNG, which could
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: have been expected considering their leader, the Kingpin was taken out.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: But because there are so many strong entities within CGNG
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: and it's operating like a fortune 500, with major figures
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: with their own loyal followings, the amount of control and
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: power they have over so much of the population and
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: the country, it's hard to even grasp it.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: When you're talking about subsidies to major cartels, why even
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: have subsidies under different names? Why don't they just absorb
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: them under the same name?
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, from my understanding, the reason why they do it
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: is to maintain strong, loyal, and intact territorial control within
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: smaller regions, right?
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: The naming thing has to do with who's the leader
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: and to know, like, okay, this group commits an act. Yes,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: we are CG & G, but that's us. You know,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: it's not just the broader CG & G. Does that
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: make sense?
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: No.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: It doesn't?
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking of it like Hell's Angels, the Mongols,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: the Gambino crime family, like all these other organized crime organizations,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: to my knowledge, they're all under one hierarchy.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Correct? And then you have the Los Angeles chapter, the
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: San Antonio chapter, the Chicago chapter, the D.C. chapter, the
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Miami chapter, but they all fall under one.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: It is kind of like that in the sense. So
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: when we're talking about FZNG, the Zacatecas forces, that sub-cell,
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: they're responsible for certain trafficking pipelines, certain amount of control
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: in that region, paying off specific politicians and law enforcement.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: And so in a way, even though they're part of
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: this great organization, they're also running their own independent operations
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: that still are benefiting the greater organization.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Is that better?
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Makes sense. Okay. Sorry.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I get lost in the sauce. I'm so in
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: the weeds with it. Sometimes someone who has no knowledge
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: will ask me like, hey, so yeah, the cartel and
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: it's just like a million miles a minute. What the
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: hell are you talking about?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: So who oversees the entire thing? Is there one person
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: that oversees the entire thing? Yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: It's zero three now. It's elemental stepson.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: How does he ensure his vision is being played out
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: over that many different organizations?
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Because he has good relationships with other high commanders who have,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: you know, it's like a triangle, right? You'll have him
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: at the top, and then you've got these top commanders,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: and then you've got the plaza bosses, and then you've
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: got so-and-so down here and sub-cell leader and miscellaneous individuals
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: even lower, right? That message is always getting passed through,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: and the higher up you go, those individuals, plaza bosses, commanders,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: are ensuring that people are acting in line. Everyone underneath
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: is doing what the boss wants.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Do you ever see any subsidiary cartels move in as
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: kind of a Trojan horse to take down the entire–
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: do you see what I'm saying?
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, but so far that has not happened with CJNG.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: But you have seen it before?
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: It's definitely happened. And that's why we see factions splinter
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: off and cartels completely dissolve and new ones are created.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, like Los Zetas do not exist anymore, but-
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Those are the guys.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: That were the all special ops guys, supposedly, right?
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: And most, like the head guys are now in the
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: United States. They were part of the first fugitive transfer,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Zeta Cuarenta. And yeah, they were very violent. They were
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: the special force guys, the ops guys, and they're trained
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: by U.S. forces. But back to the splintering off, that
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: does happen where one massive organization will sort of have
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: sub-cells emerging and now it's more localized loyalty as opposed
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: to like the kingpin.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And so if that individual says, you know what, F it,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start my own cartel, they can go
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: and do that. And there will be a lot of
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: bloodshed associated with that and, you know, kind of all
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: out war at times. But if they're successful, then they're
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: starting their own operation and they're making their own contacts
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: or they already had contacts with the Colombians and the
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Guatemalans and the Americans and even the Canadians, right? And
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: the ports in Spain. So they can do that. We
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: haven't seen that happen with CJNG yet. However, I believe
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: that there are two significant figures high up within CJNG
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: who I could picture splitting off and starting their own
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: thing in a near future. I'm not 100% about that,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: but I have seen and been told some things from
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: sources that there's a little bit of conflict. It dies
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: down pretty quick. There's a difference in opinion or how
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: things should run. And those two individuals respectively have their
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: own significant loyal followings and territories that they control. So
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: if they really wanted to, they could. However, being a
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: unified organization means more money.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. I mean, I would imagine the riff
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: inside each cartel is pretty bad, too.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: There was a big riff when El Mencho was killed.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: And it was hard for me to verify it at first. But... look,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing this to be dramatic. I just, I
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: don't want to give too many details because, you know,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I go back to Mexico and I, you know, but
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: there was someone very high ranking within CG & G,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: a known figure who after Almencho was killed, really wanted
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: to up the ante on the violence and to send
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: some pretty wicked messages. And another high ranking member said,
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: absolutely not squash that shit. And it ended there. But
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I think that was kind of like, that really did
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: it for me. It was like a telltale sign.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Motivations might be changing. Ideologies are shifting here. Not everyone
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: is fully on the same page. And there's been a
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: lot of change in this organization because El Mencho was
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: the leader. And now it's his stepson, Cero Tres, which
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: essentially means that there's been this resurgence of the millennial cartel.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: CG & G is essentially run by the Queenies, the
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Valencia family, who were the ones who started trafficking, exporting
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: cocaine into the United States. They had those Colombian connections
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: and they had the pathways into the United States because
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: they were exporting avocados from Michoacán. And now this is
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: the very family that always had the money behind CG
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: & G But now they are also the muscle and
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: the leaders. Wow.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. I was going to bring up, you know,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: what are, every time I talk to you or Luis
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: or Ed, it seems like the business lines change, you know?
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Because it always is.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, I don't want to lose this question either.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: So we'll get to that. But how much, you're talking
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: about just mass violence. I mean.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: You went to, what did you, Sinaloa, I think you said,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: and you saw six murders in the first four hours.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: and that's just you. I'm sure there's plenty of other
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: murders that are happening simultaneously.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: What, I mean, what, do you have any idea, what's
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: the estimation of how much of the Mexican population is
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: involved at a low level, at a high level, just
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: involved on the cartel's payroll? from the street lookout people
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: to the assassins, to the politicians. I mean, is it
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: the entire country?
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: That's a big one.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Is there anybody that's not involved?
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Of course. Yeah. I have some really great friends who
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: are not involved.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: So you think? No, no.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: There's definitely a lot of people who are not, but
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: the vast majority have some sort of nexus to the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: organized crime. And it makes sense, right? Like if we're looking.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Would you say over 50%?
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say that. Definitely over 50%.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Would you say over 75%?
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: But it's a lot more than half. If we're looking
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: at it from like, you know, an economy perspective, the
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: cartels are like the third largest Largest employer in Mexico,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: What's number one? I'm surprised it's not number one.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Probably agriculture. That's a great question. I'm going to sound
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: like a dumbass because I actually don't have this off
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: the top of my head. But I know that they're
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: in the top five of probably top three of employers,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: which how do you even quantify that?
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it is. I don't know if
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you can. No.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But it's when you're then including, okay, politicians on
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: the payroll, law enforcement. So people who, and when I
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: mean law enforcement, people who are not actively trafficking drugs
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: or arms, but rather just simplest of it, turning a
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: blind eye, looking the other way. Inherently then you are
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: part of organized crime, right? But you're not technically a
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: criminal so it's certainly over 50 it's definitely a really
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: disheartening percentage i mean.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: It is it just makes me like what hope do
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: they have.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: The hope is that the culture is beautiful when you
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: look past all of this.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Okay okay you're like shut the hell up so what
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: what are there other south central american countries that aren't
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: overtaken by this how how how far Into Central South America,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: is this?
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, very deep.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Is this infiltrated?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: It goes, okay, so Guatemala, big part of it, okay?
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: They're consumed. Ecuador, same. And then it goes low. Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Brazil, even.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: So the connections- Influenced by Mexican cartel? Or at least
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: have connections with them. You know what's interesting? You bring
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: up the influence of that. So when I went to
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Colombia in January, I went right when Maduro was captured
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: because I wanted to get into Venezuela and they'd closed
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: their airspace. So I went to Cucuta, which is a
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: small town in Colombia right along the Venezuelan border. And
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Cucuta at one point in time, especially when El Chapo
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: was still free and running the Sinaloa cartel, was a
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: major hotspot for Chapo's operators. And a lot of, you know,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: even his family members, his nephews and major commanders within
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Sinaloa Cartel were going to Cucuta to run operations from
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: within Colombia. And it's not too far from Catatumbo, which
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: is where you'll see those hectares of coca plant grow-ups.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: I actually took a helicopter ride to see, and all
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: you see are just coca leaves for miles and miles.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: And so... the presence isn't really there as much anymore
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: since 2010. And when I went there, there is so
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: much even cultural influence from Mexico because of the time
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: when the Mexican cartels were using this as like a
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: hub for trafficking cocaine. So, and I think that paints
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: a really good picture when you ask me of, you know,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: what's the influence, uh, further south in South America and
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: deeper in Latin America of the cartels. Well, they've been
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: around for so long and their ties and nexus to
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: these countries and the individuals operating within them is so
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: strong that they've even managed cultural influence over them. You
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: go to this small bar in the middle of nowhere
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: along the Colombian-Menezuelan border and they're playing regional Mexican music
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: and everybody knows the words. Wow. And they're even dressing...
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: with that sort of cartel guy swagger, the style, yeah.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: It shocked me to see it. I wasn't expecting that.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I actually didn't know, had no idea it would be
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: So what are the lines of business? I mean, so far... Everything.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like everything. I mean, obviously fentanyl, cocaine, drugs, marijuana.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: We know that stuff. I don't even know. Is that
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: stuff still the primary focus? Because it was either you
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: or Luis last time I talked to you guys. They
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: were taking over the water supplies. They were taking over
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: the avocado farms. Then there's human trafficking.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Crude oil theft.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Crude oil, which I would imagine. Huge one. And the
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: whole point of this was to appear legit, correct? Correct.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Of course, it's to appear legit and to diversify the.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Portfolio.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The revenue.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Are there any new sources of revenue? Is the entire
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: water supply under.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: I think we talked about this last time that they
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: were also monopolizing, um, like wifi providing wifi internet services
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: in smaller towns for the most part, they're not doing
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: this in like major cities. But yeah, smaller towns, they'll
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: go and they'll cut the Wi-Fi wires. In small towns
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: in Mexico too, it's not like wireless. And so they're
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: going cutting it up, putting up their own and then
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: going door to door and being like, now you're going
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: to pay me and I'm going to provide you the Wi-Fi.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Crude oil, we spoke about, that's a big one. And
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: here's the thing, because sometimes I see people say, well,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: we have to end the demand for drugs in order
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: to end the cartels. That's a complete fallacy because it
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter whether drugs exist or not, if they are
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: profiting off of almost every good or service that they
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: can take to the black market and make it profitable.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Because crude oil is not a black market good, right?
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: It's what makes the world go round. But when these
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: guys are tapping into state-run pipelines in Mexico, stealing the
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: crude oil and then driving it across the US and
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: selling it to mom-pop refineries, For half the price than
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: if they were to purchase it legally, that becomes a
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: black market good. The avocados, same thing. And, you know,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: that's been going on for ages. That's also because of
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: the region in which avocados grow in Mexico, in Michoacan.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: It's a major cartel hotspot. And actually, just a few
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: months ago, the U.S. momentarily stopped the avocado import exports
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: from Michoacán because of how extreme the cartel violence had
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: gotten and how so many of the local farmers and
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: agriculture producers were under extreme threats of their lives and
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: of their livelihoods. And it's really sad. And I'm not
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: sure if I said last time, but you know, Avocados
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: is not, it's not an easy thing to grow. It
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: can take like 30 years to grow an Haas avocado tree.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: You know, this is people's lives. It's a generational trade.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: And then you have guys coming in armored in armed
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: vehicles saying, I'm going to fucking kill you. Or you're
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: going to pay me a quota, which is typically 80%
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: of how much these farmers are earning. How do you
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: even survive? How do you support your family? How do
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: you support your crop? If 80% of your revenue is
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: going to, to extortion fees. Or if you can't pay that,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: this is no longer your land. We own it and
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: we run it. So people are fleeing, leaving their generationally
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: owned avocado orchards or they're being murdered or they're paying
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: an extortion fee to the point where they lose their
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: livelihoods entirely. So yes, every single method has been taken
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: over by them. And of course, in order for that
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: to happen, goes back into what you were saying earlier,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: that directly ties back to the ignorant politicians who allow
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: it to happen and who are profiting off of it.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Because that's one thing that I really believe that there
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: could be a crackdown on and say, listen, you guys
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: want to traffic your drugs and your arms? Leave the
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: farmers alone. You know, leave the pipe, the oil lines alone.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: That stuff stays legal, but they don't do that. I mean,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: great example of this, of just how high it goes.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Miss Universe, she's, Mexico was Miss Universe, right? Her father
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: is a high executive in Pemex because Mexico's oil is
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: state run Pemex. And he's been accused. I don't know
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: whether or not it's formal, if it actually was taken
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: to court of, uh, a $ 700 million contract with the,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: one of the main execs of the Miss universe competition.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: because he's also very involved in Mexican politics. They had
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: a 700 million peso contract, which just so happened to
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: come to fruition during the Miss Universe contract. And this
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: individual is actually now in Mexico's Federal Witness Protection Program
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: because he was accused of trafficking crude oil, stealing it,
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: trafficking it, and arms. And so Now we're talking about
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: organizations that go so beyond, even bypass Mexico. And Miss
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Universe has me blocked on Instagram.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. But I just, I don't.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: How do you dismantle that?
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: I don't. It's kind of what I was getting at.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, it almost seems like there's no hope for them.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: It goes so far.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Even as a politician, I mean, what? you're saying well
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: over 50% of the people, the population down there, you
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: said less than 75%, but more than 50%. I mean, that's.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Because I don't want to be inaccurate, but big gap though.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, and that's a lot of people, a lot
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: of people. Why did the U S turn the flow
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: of avocados back?
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Because they turn it back on.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Why did they turn it back on?
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: There actually wasn't a reason for it, but I guess
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I would assume that, you know, violence decreased doubt it, but,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I were to send a press inquiry,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: that's probably the answer I would get.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: What other kind of international trade are they involved in
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: other than avocados, obviously oil? What other countries are partaking?
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: What other countries are partaking?
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: These are legitimate businesses that I don't know how many
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: people realize or know what's run by the cartel over there.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they know them. you know, the
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: water supply, the avocado trade, everybody thinks cartels, they think drugs.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Human trafficking.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: And you know, the focus lately, especially during this administration,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: it's been so heavily placed on fentanyl. And if we
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: look at official numbers from both the U S and Mexico,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: it seems like, you know, fentanyl seizures at the border
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: have gone down. I have a hard time trusting those
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: numbers because how can you quantify seizures? Like, how do
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: you know what is getting through like you can know
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: what isn't but you know what i mean uh but
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: cocaine is getting through at unprecedented numbers because the focus
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: was so heavy on fentanyl that cocaine was kind of
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: left in in this area of okay.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Let's just keep pushing it all different levers.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Yes and the united states is certainly losing the war
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: on cocaine by a landslide so yeah it's.
• 52:58
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• 55:34
  Speaker 1: kind of talking about international trade and legitimate businesses and
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: how they bled into Central South America. How have they
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: bled into the U.S.? Have they bled into the U.S.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Of course. Yeah. Without the U.S., I don't think cartels
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: would be successful, to be honest. Whether that's, of course,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: through the obvious, like drug consumption, but also they are
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: the ones purchasing stolen crude oil, the avocados. You know,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: I think All three of us, Ed, Luis, and I
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: have all said it, that the Super Bowl is a
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: great day if you're a cartel operative who profits off
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: of stolen avocados, which a lot of this is directly linking,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: of course, to the U.S. And there are certainly significant
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: cartel operatives residing in the U.S. One important thing to mention,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: the new leader of CG & G, Cero Tres and
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Mencho Stepson, is an American citizen. He was born in
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Santa Ana, California. And this is really the first time
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: where a major kingpin is an American citizen. It's supposed
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: to make that harder for U.S. authorities who are applying
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: the kingpin strategy left, right, and center when it comes
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: to Mexican cartels, just because of intelligence gathering, right? Technically,
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: the CIA can't do that, but he's also running a
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: foreign terrorist organization. So it's great no matter how you
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: look at it. But another, you know, I know we
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: say the humans, the human trafficking, the sex trafficking is
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: a major operation, particularly too for CGNG. CGNG doesn't really
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: touch fentanyl the way the Sinaloa cartel does because fentanyl
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: production was created by allegedly Iván Archibaldo, El Chapo's son.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: He was the one that got in touch with the
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Chinese cooks, figured out that this synthetic, easy to make drug,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: highly addictive, potent drug would be very profitable for them.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: CJ & G, however, focuses more on meth, cocaine, human trafficking.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: And I never really wanted to cover human trafficking or
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: sex trafficking For the very selfish reason of it's very
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: hard to talk about, hear about. It's very tragic. And
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of the work is tragic. But this is
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: something where you feel like you cannot make anything better.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: And you're talking to victim after victim who has been
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: brutalized by sex trafficking. You want to die. And so
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: the summer I did a whole story on how human
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: sex trafficking in Mexico directly links to the United States
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: and how a lot of the major individuals responsible for
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: trafficking women from central and Southern Mexico, and even further
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: down in South America are these, these men in control
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: or family networks, I guess, are actually operating from the
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: United States. Um, And they're going into these small towns
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: and they're luring and recruiting women and bringing them to
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: border towns and some of them bringing them into the
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: United States where they're working at clandestine bars as sex
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: workers and they were misled to be there. They didn't
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: know that they were going to have to provide sexual
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: services there. against their will. And most of the clientele,
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: at least from the women that I spoke to who
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: got out of it or are still in it, unfortunately,
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: especially along borders and obviously in the United States, they
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: say that most of their clientele are Americans. And so
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: when I did this story, I was like into Juana
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know, I'm sure a lot of
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: you recognize where I'm at, I had all the famous
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: strip clubs behind me, Hong Kong. And I'm like, you know,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: some of you probably come here to have fun and
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: for cheap sex. But let's talk to the women who
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: are actually providing these services who didn't know or ever
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: imagined that they would end up here. And it's a
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: very sophisticated network. These women are from small towns, most
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: of them. They're very young. And typically a lot of
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: them come from pretty conservative families, very religious, like not
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: a lot of exposure and not saying that's a bad thing,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: but you know what I mean? It's just a smaller world.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: And a man who splits his time between Mexico and
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: the United States comes to this small town and falls
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: in love with the 17 year old girl. You know,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: he's older, but she's never had a guy pay attention
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: to her in this way. And she will fall in love.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: It's the Romeo method. He wins her over, even wins
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: the family over a lot of the time. And we'll
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: either sleep with her, like take her virginity or maintain
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: it and say, we're going to have sex after we
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: get married. And then he will tell her, you know what?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: For work, we have to go to this border town.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Let's use TJ's common one. Let's go to Tijuana. For work,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: we're going to move there just for a little bit.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: You're going to do great, blah, blah. And this young woman, okay,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: this is what I have to do for my family,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: my man. I've never been in a relationship, whatever. They
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: move to Tijuana. And as soon as she gets there,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: she's thrown into a house where multiple other women are
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: living with this man. And she's told that she has
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: to go and make X amount of money every night.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: aka sleep with as many men as possible until you
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: make this quota. And if you don't, he will beat
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: you up very severely. And they withhold everything from these women,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: their phones, their IDs, everything is taken away from them.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: And they will even go through the legal route through
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Tijuana's sanitary department. There's an official name for it where
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: You legally register as a prostitute. They will do that
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: for these women. So sometimes they'll wait until these women
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: turn 18 so they can legally register them. Some of
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: them will even legally marry them. So these women essentially
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: become like their property. And one of the women I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: spoke to who's from a small town in central Mexico
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: where a lot of women get trafficked and a lot
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: of traffickers actually originate from, she told me as soon
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: as she got to Tijuana with her husband- Uh, he
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: took her phone, her IDs registered her. She didn't want
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: to work. He beat her up so badly. She went
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: to the hospital, was very scared and started working. And
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: for 10 years gave sexual services to up to 30
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: men a night.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: Worst thing you've ever heard.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: And, um, and then she tried to go to the authorities,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: her with some other girls. And they said, okay, first
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: of all, I'm, I'm giving an idea of what she
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: told me. She said, first of all, they told her, well,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: you're married to him. So that's, that's a spousal dispute. That's,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: that's on you guys. Like whatever he's making you do
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: or whatever's going on there, like you guys are.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Just in a fight.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Um, and also, you know, no one is forcing you
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: by your hair to go work the corner. you choose
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: to go out and work there and give the sexual services.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: So they didn't do anything. And it was very hard
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: for her to escape.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: How did she escape?
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: She got pregnant with him. And, you know, I asked her,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: I said, were you worried? Because his whole family, this
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: trafficker and the man she considers to be her husband,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: the whole family does human trafficking. This is very common
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: in Mexico where It's family networks who have generationally done
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: human trafficking and then they are giving money or kind
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: of operating in tangent with like the cartel, but they
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: are not themselves the cartel. And she got pregnant and
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: she was like, she had already lost a pregnancy before
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: and she said, I had to leave. And she goes,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: I just grabbed all my shit and I got back
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: home and I had like no money to do it.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: And she escaped to her family. And I asked her,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: you know, were you afraid? And she still has a
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: relationship with her trafficker, who she considers her husband, because
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: he's the father of her child. And she told me
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: that she feels like no man will ever love her
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: knowing what she has done in her life. So this
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: is the only man who has, in a way, as
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: evil as he was. And she said this, as evil
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: as he was. is still with her. And when she
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: told me that she got pregnant, which was what she used,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: I guess, as leverage to leave, I said, I was like,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: you know, were you worried, uh, that it would be
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: a girl because it's actually quite common, unfortunately, where traffickers
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: will impregnate the girls. And then if it's a daughter,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: then they'll bring them up, whatever. And then that girl
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: gets trafficked. And in our interview, She starts bawling when
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: I asked her this. And then I start crying. And
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: she was like, my biggest fear was to have a girl.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: I prayed every night that God would not send me
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: a daughter because life as a woman is horrible. And
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: the life that she lived was tragic. And she told me,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: Most of the clients she was serving were American citizens,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: Americans who were coming to Tijuana for sex tourism. And
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: she was abused a lot. Of course, you know, it
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: comes with the territory. But yeah, that was the worst
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: thing ever. And she did tell me of a lot
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: of girls she knew that were trafficked who were in
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Tijuana with her at some point. Um, and then if
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: they were like successful, AKA making a lot of money or,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: you know, very attractive considering the atmosphere, they would be
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: taken to major cities in the United States to provide services.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: San Diego, Houston, LA, New York is also a big one.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: And actually in this town that I went to, I
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: went to Tlaxcala. It's a state outside of Mexico City.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: It's actually kind of, there's a running joke on the
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: state that it's the forgotten state because it's the smallest.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people haven't even heard of it.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: Even Mexican nationals, when I'm like, I went to Tlaxcala,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: they're like, what the fuck is that? There's a direct
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: link between Tlaxcala as a human trafficking hub to major
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: American cities. A major human trafficking network was actually Taken
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: down by authorities, American authorities in New York. I want
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: to say three years ago. And they were directly working
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: with traffickers and getting girls from Tlaxcala, the forgotten state
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: of Mexico. It was the worst story I've ever done.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: And when I did this story. I wanted to obviously
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: speak with the governor of Tlaxcala. You know, your state
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: is known as a human sex trafficking hub.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: That's not ideal.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: How are you combating this? And I had seen that
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: she had, what I had seen is three times she
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: had publicly denied that there was a human trafficking problem
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: in Tlaxcala. She said that it was being misrepresented and overblown.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: So I'm trying to set up an interview with her.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: And at first her office seems very keen. Yeah, she
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: wants to give her side of the story, and that's
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: kind of also how I played it, right? I want
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: to know what's really happening. From you, you're the one
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: in charge. Tell me the truth. You know, I know
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: what the truth is. I'm fucking seeing it. I'm talking
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: to the people who are being terrorized by the reality
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: of the situation. But let's hear... from the individual who's
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: supposed to maintain the integrity and the safety and wellbeing
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: of the state and its citizens. Who's obviously not doing that.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: And let's see what she has to say. So I'm
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: speaking with the office of the governor to set this
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: up and a representative from her office, who I guess
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: runs all the media, um, situations, says to me, yeah, okay,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: gobernadora will talk to you. You're going to be here
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: on these dates. You can come to the palace, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: How much? And I'm like, how much? I have to
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: pay to do the interview? I don't do that. And
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: she goes, no, no, no. How much do you need
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: for a good interview? And I I'm listening to this.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, am I stupid? Like, am I not understand?
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: Do I not speak Spanish right now? And I'm like,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: you're going to pay me to interview the governor. And
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: she's like, yes. How much? I said, I'm sorry. I,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not understanding. So you're going to give me money.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: If I interview the governor and she goes, yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: And if you can send us, you know, the, the,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: cut before you publish it. We just like to look
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: at for, I'm like, that's not journalism, man. I don't
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: do that. You know, I should have asked how much
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: she would be willing. That was, I was just so
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: shocked in the moment that that had happened. It was
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: the first time that I had been offered money by
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: a government official to do a story so that it
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: would feed their narrative. And I was shocked. Governor didn't
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: end up doing the interview with me.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: They gave me, um, No kidding.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: A secretary of women, which is a position in Mexico
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: for women's well-being and stuff, tasked with women's safety. Governor
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: didn't do it.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: Jeez.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: So you're offering me money to– interview you because you
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: want me in my report to put that there isn't
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: a human trafficking problem. Right after I just spoke with
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: a woman who told me that she was trafficked and
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: lured from this state, asked for help, never received it,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: and was terrorized for a decade of her life and
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: is back here and has no resources to access to
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: even maybe make something better of her life that was destroyed.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: get wrecked. And when you talk about the American connection,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: I understand that there's this perception that, well, you know,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: cartels are Mexico's problem. At least that was the perception
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: for a long time. And I think we even spoke
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: about this last time where, well, that's not our problem.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, you guys, I'm not American, but that's not
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: a US problem. That's a Mexico problem. And there was,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: has always been this kind of distinction between So U.S.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: is combating fentanyl in cartels. Why? Because fentanyl is killing
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Americans at record rates. But then there's this other side
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: of it that has a lot more nuance where now
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: this Mexico problem is a problem because of Americans. And
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: now it's becoming an American problem. And I think human
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: trafficking is a prime example of that because these girls
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: are being trafficked into the U.S., and then these guys
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: aren't getting caught, who's to say that they're not also
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: trafficking American women simultaneously? Of course they are. It's a
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: massive network. And if it spans borders, they have no limit.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: You know, Trump, did he announce all cartels, foreign terrorist organizations?
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: I think so, yeah. So originally, it wasn't all of them.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: It was a list of I think eight, some were missing,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: but they've since expanded that list. So I'm not sure
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: if all of them are designated yet, but for the
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: most part, all bases are covered now.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: So has the U.S. done anything? Have they actually treated
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: them like terrorist organizations? Have there been any arrests, hits,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: drone strikes? Do we have intelligence services down there? A
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: lot of questions I just hammered you with. Let's start
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: with this. How has that affected the cartel's mindset and operations,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: if at all, by them being labeled a terrorist organization?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: I truly do not believe that the FTO designation actually
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: impacted cartel operations. They adapt like cockroaches, really. You know, U.S.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: will sanction someone, shut down this bank account, arrest this person.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter because they've already pivoted five different ways. Um,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: in terms of arrests, people are, especially people on the
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: U S side of the border who have links or
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: are operating or profiting off of the cartels are being
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: arrested and charged as foreign terrorists, which is different. Uh,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: so if they're like colluding with the cartel, now you,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: you were operating aiding with a foreign terrorist organization in
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: terms of intelligence. We know. the U.S. has been and
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: is continuously gathering intelligence on the ground in Mexico. When
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: the FTO designation was first announced, everyone was asking, that
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: was the hot topic, right? Will there be American boots
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: on the ground in Mexico? In an intelligence capacity, yes,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: of course, and there has been for a very long time.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: And we saw not so long ago that two cities
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: CIA agents were actually killed. They died in a car
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: crash in Chihuahua dressed in Mexican police uniforms because they
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: went to dismantle a meth lab. So yeah, we know
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: intelligence is being gathered there. I mean, Ryan Wedding, El Mencho,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: those people are not being taken out simply due to
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: Mexican intelligence. I mean, U.S. is openly taking credit for it,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: for the intelligence gathering to find the location of El Mencho.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: But when we're talking about drone strikes, boots on the
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: ground in terms of typical warfare, I don't think that
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: will ever happen. I hope it doesn't. I've never wanted
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: that to be the case because I think it would
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: result in a lot more bloodshed and uncertainty and disorganization
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: than good because the cartels will fight.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, do they... Since that's, how long ago did
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: that happen? Has it been about a year?
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: The FTO designation?
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: Two years?
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: Two years.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Well, it was, yeah, it was, uh, am I right?
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's about a year. No.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: When did, when was Trump, when did Trump take office? January.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: 2024.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: That was, then it was two years.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: That was, he, he signed that executive order.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: It was 24. It took office 25.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, so it was a year. I have no concept
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: of time these days.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: Me neither.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: It's so bad. It's so bad.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, since you've been down there in the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: past year and a half, is there any chatter about
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: when you're talking to these guys? They don't give a shit.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: They do not give a shit. Do they wear it
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: as a badge of honor?
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: Indifference.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: They don't care.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: Indifference.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: It's like it's never even happened.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: Yes. It makes no difference.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: Wow. I wasn't expecting that. According to polymarket.com, there's an
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: 11% chance of conducting a drone, missile, or airstrike inside
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: Mexico before the end of this year. How likely do
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: you think it is that the United States eventually carries
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: out a drone, missile, or airstrike against a cartel target
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: inside of Mexico?
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not a financial advisor, but do not bet on
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: that because it's.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Not going to happen.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: It's not going to happen.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: You don't think so, huh?
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: I'm actually very certain it won't. And the reason for
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: that is they don't need to do that. Their current
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: tactic of splintering the cartels and having them kill each
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: other off is a lot more effective and cheaper than
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: doing all of that shit.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It doesn't sound very effective to me
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: when we're talking about 50%.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: They're essentially dismantling the Sinaloa cartel.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but another one's just taken over.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that will always happen. The drone strike will
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: do the same thing. And it will turn people against
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: eradicating the cartels. People who do not want the cartels
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: because now you've caused war in their country, in their home.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: There was a video that just came out of a
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: group of women in, oh, it's a Southern state in Mexico.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: And they're being terrorized by the local cartel, local criminal groups.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: And they're saying in the video, they're these older Mexican women.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: President Trump, please help us. Please get rid of the cartels.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: They're asking a foreign president to help them with their
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: domestic problem. I don't think, though, drone strikes and full-blown
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: war would actually end up in that scenario by any means.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: And I think that what they're doing now is... So
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: here's the thing. i don't personally believe it's effective the
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: whole kingpin strategy whatsoever right it's a hydra you cut
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: off the head two more grow back they killed almencho
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: which was supposed to be like holy you know the
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: ultimate kingpin boom like nothing happened 24 hours later business
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: as usual But what they're doing with Sinaloa cartel, for example,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: of turning everyone against each other and then making deals
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: with the very terrorists they're against, right? Striking a deal
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: with all of El Chapo's kids, the family. Oh, plea
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: deal here. You can live in the US. Visa here.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: I think that sends more of a message. to the
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: cartels than a drone strike. I do think, though, and
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: there has certainly been chatter, that a lot of these
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: guys feel like if they end up in U.S. custody,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: if they have good information that the U.S. wants, they'll
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: get an easy break. Which is.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Could not be a bad method.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: And it's true. Like, we're seeing it happen.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: For them, I mean. Yeah, of course.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: And I'm under the impression.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: That that is exactly the reason why Mexican forces killed
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: El Mencho and didn't capture him alive. You know, they
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: say that there was this massive shootout. I'm sure there was.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: And that El Mencho died in transit to Mexico City.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: But I think of anyone, El Mencho had so much information,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: particularly on high-ranking politicians that the U.S. is very interested in.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: And that would have been very bad.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: Well, that doesn't surprise me. By the way, I'm not
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: necessarily disagreeing with you on the drone strikes.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: No, but you can.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: I actually, if I did this, I'll roll the clip
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: right now. I think that the way to do it
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: would be, and I don't know, like I said, it's
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: been a minute since I've talked about this, but I
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: don't know how... how combative the cartels are towards each
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: other anymore. But I think what I would do is
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: I would probably create some type of psychological operation that
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: pits the cartels against each other and basically create a
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: false narrative so that this cartel and this cartel hate
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: each other and they go to war with each other
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: and then find ways to intervene and You know what
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: I mean? I'm pretty sure I brought up this exact
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: method of turning the cartels against each other from the
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: inside talking to Luis Chaparro many years ago.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: I think you actually also probably brought it up to me.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: But here's some things that we're not thinking about with
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: the drone strikes. And I don't know how they're set up,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: so this is all hypothetical. But drone strikes, precision strikes,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: however we do it, go in there with U.S. force.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: which I don't necessarily think we should be doing with
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: as many wars as we're involved in right now.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: But, you know, they do have to have supplies. You
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? So whether that's drugs, the supplies,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: the precursors that are coming from China. I mean, I
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: don't know how much of the infrastructure is funded by
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: drugs still. But if you were to take care of
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: those supplies, that's a big hit of funding. I know
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: that they export a shit ton of firearms, weapons, and
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: stuff from the U.S. I don't know what they're doing
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: with those. I don't know if they have caches, but
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: if they do have big caches, they could hit it
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: with a drone strike, you know what I mean, and
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: handicap their supplies. I know that they, which we're getting
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: ready to get into here after this, but FPV drones,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: it's becoming a big thing right Oh, they have a shit.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: Ton of drones.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? So somebody's manufacturing those drones,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: and they're likely in some type of a facility manufacturing
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: these drones. They can hit those. You know what I mean?
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: And so if there's high concentrations of cartel, I'm not
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: just talking about, you know what I mean, hitting El
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: Chapo or any of these other leaders. It's about the supply.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: You hit the infrastructure. Yeah. And you hit the infrastructure
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: all at once, and it cripples them. On top of that,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: you also can play into the, you know, who got
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: this info to them. You know what I mean? You
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: could still turn them into it, turn them against each
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: other from the inside and, and, you know, play the,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: play the, the, the exterior rivalry, you know what I mean?
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: Between cartel and cartel and just make it mass hysteria
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: down there for them. And so I don't, I don't,
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I would write it off completely.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: I do see what you're saying. I mean, generally when
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: bombs start going off people's backyards, they don't like it.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: But it's already happening all the time anyway down there.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: And it is affecting more than just the U.S. I mean,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the impact in Canada is, but
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: it sounds, you know, they're going, they're bleeding into Europe.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: And so at some point, something's going to have to
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: give here or else they're just going to run the
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: entire world. But what do you think of that?
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: I think it's a good strategy. I mean, this is
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: not my job to create strategies on how to end cartels.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: You don't think about that ever?
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: I do, of course, but I don't think I'm the
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: expert to even pitch how to do it, to be honest.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: It's also not my responsibility. But I think that that
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: could be effective because their weaponry, especially, like you said,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: the drones... the guns, that's what they need. They need
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: that muscle. But I think they could do it without
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: drone strikes almost. Maybe I'm being naive. I'm sure some
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: people will think so. But 70% of the guns in Mexico, well,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: at least found at crime scenes, are coming from the
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: United States, are American made. And so ideally, right, it
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: would be best if that... That's stopped before they even
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: get into the hands of the criminals. But just a
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: few days ago, a massive shipment of DJI drones in
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: Mexico was stolen. They don't know who stole it. You know,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: it could be cartel. It could be someone who's going
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: to sell it. But I know that the majority of
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: weapons in Mexico are coming from the U.S. and Israel.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: And that goes beyond regular weaponry, right? Even spyware. I
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: think we talked about Pegasus last time.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: Mexico's the number one country, Pegasus. They were the first
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: country to actually do a contract with Pegasus. And that's
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: because actually a previous president, Peña Nieto, allegedly accepted a
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: $ 25 million bribe from two executives at NSO, the company
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: that started Pegasus spyware out of Israel. And he implemented
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: Pegasus as part of their national security apparatus. It was
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: the first country to do it. They were the first
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: one to have that contract. And then an Israeli news
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: outlet said that these two individuals, two execs for Pegasus,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: bribed the Mexican president at the time with $ 25 million
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: to implement Pegasus into their national security apparatus. And Peña
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: Nieto denied this. A person who's never on social media
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: following his presidency goes onto Twitter and is like, this
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: is terrible. There's no journalistic rigor in this reporting. This
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: is completely wrong, false. I would never do this. And
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: then a few days ago, a video comes to light.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: You see him at a wedding with the very individual
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: last name Neriah, I think, who gave him the $ 25
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: million bribe.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: Who was accusing, yeah. And in Israel, there was like
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: this tribunal held. It wasn't like official court, but it's
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: like five rabbis. It's kind of like an arbitrary kind
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: of court hearing with the two NSO individuals because they were,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: you know, having a dispute over the company. And one
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: of them says to Neriah, you know, you need to
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: pay me back. I want out of this. You need
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 2: to pay me back. So they're listing off everything that
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: he can get money from. And he goes, and remember,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: we bribed that president with 25 million. Give me the
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: 25 million. And Neria, the individual who was spotted with
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: Peña Nieto a few days ago, doesn't say, no, we
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: never did that. No, there's no money there. He says, no,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: it was less than 25 million what we gave him.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: Then that's all documented. And Pegasus took over Mexico's state security.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: It became very problematic and very dangerous because, sure, perhaps
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: that was meant to be part of the infrastructure of
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: the government. It got into the hands of cartels. They
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: were using it to spy on. journalists, on clean politicians,
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: the few and far in between. And people were certainly
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: murdered because of the access to that, the widespread access. Sorry,
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: that was a bit of a tangent there.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: Well, man. What a problem.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: President is accepting a $ 25 million bribe for spyware tech? Crazy.
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• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: it's protection. I mean, somebody would have to... It's just,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: I don't even... I mean, you could boycott, you know
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: what I mean? Who's buying the oil?
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: The stolen crude oil? American refineries.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: American refineries.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: There was actually a case a year ago. It was
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: a family out of Utah, I believe. And they were
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: indicted because they were buying stolen crude oil and smuggling
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: it in through the port of Brownsville. And they ran a...
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: I think Jensen family, something like that. They, they had
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: a kind of family run smaller refinery and they were
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: knowingly purchasing the stolen crude oil because it was a
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: lower price.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: But you'd have to, you'd have to, I mean, you
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: just have to totally cripple their infrastructure, their, their money-making machine,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: which is boycott on avocados, penalize us companies that are,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: that are, you know, or just make it illegal. which
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: that would probably take 20 years in the US.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, you'd have to destroy all of their fentanyl, cocaine, whatever.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: You'd have to do all of that. You'd have to
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: get rid of the weapons. I don't know exactly how
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: you would take care of the human trafficking problem, but
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: that would narrow it to one scope. And then the
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: other thing you would have to do is handle their
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: government which the u.s is horrible at but you know
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: it would take it would take some type of some
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: type of intervention you know fair election cycles better protection
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: for politicians i mean shit like that for it for
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: it to even have a chance which i'm sure none
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: of it is happening so.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: The last election in mexico was one of the most
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: violent in history where Claudia Shattenbaum won with a historic landslide.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: And above all, it would take the people of Mexico
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: to actually stand up. Yeah.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: There's a level of acceptance.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: And if they don't want to, then this whole thing
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: is just.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I've spoken to a lot of people,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: especially in Sinaloa. They're very tired of it and they
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: want it to end and they'll take the stand. But also,
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: you know, we have to appreciate that there's so much
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: deep-rooted fear in standing up against that. It's completely understandable.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: It's like, how do you take on this big beast
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: if even the government can't? It's a collective approach.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: Well, the government's part of the beast.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: Man, rough time down there. Have you heard of El
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: Salvador's infamous SECOT prison? Do you think anything like that
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: would work?
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 2: So there's actually a lot of Mexican people I've spoken
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: to who are very anti-cartels that say they would love
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: to see that in Mexico, that that's what it needs,
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: that Mexico needs a Bukele. I think if they were
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: to go after everyone just like Bukele did and anyone
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: who has any morsel of connection to criminals or criminal
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: activity goes straight to jail with no end in sight
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: indefinitely– Yes, it could be effective. But like I said,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: what Mexico would also have to do that El Salvador
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: kind of got under control is they would have to
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: compensate in the economy, right? Because like we said, so
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: much of it is run by the cartels. And that
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: would be the part that disincentivizes them from just being like,
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: we're going to go and do this widespread cleanup and
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: throw everyone into this mega prison like Secod, right? But
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: I have heard that before. And I actually know a
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: lot of people who are like very anti-cartel in Mexico
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: who say that they would like to see that happen.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: And they're like, it's not best case scenario, but it's
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: gotten to that point.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, that was one of the most violent places
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: on the world.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: And now it's one of the safest.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And there's obviously like a lot of human
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: rights concerns that we've heard about. People are in there
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: that they have nothing to do with it and how
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: people are being treated. And I mean, when you're talking
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: about tackling this huge beast of crime and violent crime,
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: that's kind of part of the nature. Wouldn't you agree?
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: It's unfortunate.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: It is, of course.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: Let's move into Ukraine. Okay. What's going on? with the
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: cartels in Ukraine?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: So last summer, I saw that France and Mexico had
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: sent an intelligence report to Ukraine, notifying them that there
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: were foreign mercenaries, foreign fighters in Ukraine that were training
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: up on FPV drone tactics only to go to Mexico
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: and work for the cartels as FPV drone operators. And
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: so I was like, okay, this is very interesting. Let's
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: dig into it. Come to find out there was one individual,
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: and he goes by Aguilasiete Eagle 7. He went to
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: Ukraine with false documentation and went to a very well-known
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: drone training facility where he raised some red flags because
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: he was already very well-versed in FPV drone flying. And
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: I guess someone... The details aren't super clear. And even
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: when I was digging for information on this, it was
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: really hard. Also keeping in mind, it's an active war zone. So,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: you know, they're trying to also protect the integrity of
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: their infrastructure, security, et cetera, even image to a degree.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: So it seems like some of the trainers caught on
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: that something may have been off and that his intentions
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: were odd and his capabilities. He was flagged and then...
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: investigation went on where they found out that he had
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: direct links to criminal organizations in Latin America. And that's
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: really all it says, but it seems as though he
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: was directly connected to Mexican cartels and to FARC as well.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: So after that, okay, looking into it, whatever, we go
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: to Ukraine, my cameraman and I, and we go to
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: these drone training facilities where it's quite simple. Flying an
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: FPV drone is kind of like playing a video game,
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: and actually young people are pretty good at it because...
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: They're well-versed in playing video games. The only thing obviously
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: that changes is that once you have like the bomb
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: strapped to it and the weight and the understanding of
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: dropping it and accuracy, whatever. You also do not see
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: the kill happen. The camera shuts off right at launch.
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: So it also creates like this disconnect to typical warfare,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: I guess. We go to these training facilities and I
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: begin to like ask everyone, you know, what about these
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: foreign fighters that are coming here? Have you guys seen
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: people that seem like they're ill-intentioned or they're not here
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: to fight the war, even for the money to be
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: a mercenary, but they're here because they want to learn something.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: And there was mixed reactions. We went to a lot
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: of different facilities, training facilities. Some people said, yeah, some
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: guy will come here from Columbia and we'll go on
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: his TikTok and he's showing him with like an AK-47
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: in like the hood in Colombia. We're like, what is
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: he doing here? A lot of them are just like
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: police officers or ex-military. And so they have this legitimate
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: experience and now they're applying it over there, whether it's
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 2: for the Patriarch or because they believe in Ukraine's autonomy,
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: whatever it is, that at the end of the day
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: didn't even matter. I was curious to see how and
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: why the cartels are getting people from here. So it
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: seems like there's two things happening simultaneously. First, that at
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: one point in time, a few individuals, small amount, were
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: sent on purpose with false documentation, some of them even
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: through private military companies, to Ukraine to get trained up
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: on drones, serve there six months, And then go back
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: to Mexico and now they knew how to use drones
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: and they would become the trainers in Mexico. Another thing
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: is happening. A lot of Latin American foreign fighters in Ukraine,
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: once their time serving is coming up, To an end,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: they are being recruited by cartels in Mexico, offered money,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: and will go straight from Ukraine to Mexico now to
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: fight on the front lines with CG & G, particularly
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: in Michoacán, with cartels operating in Michoacán. How are they recruiting?
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: Through social media.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: Through social media.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So a lot of these guys are posting on
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: their TikTok and Instagram of them fighting the war there
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: and being in Ukraine. And a lot of it obviously
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: is in Spanish because they're Latin American. And I guess
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: there's some people within the cartels tasked with seeking these
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: individuals out, offering them money and like this recruitment package
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: to go to Mexico and fight there.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: Any idea how much they're paying?
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: I have no idea, but I don't think it's a
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: lot because based on the profile of the individuals who
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: are actually ending up there, they're not coming from well-paying
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: jobs in Colombia or well-paying positions in Ukraine, and they're
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 2: ending up on front lines in Mexico. So the money
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: can't be good. There's one individual, he's kind of everywhere,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: or at least I've seen him a lot. He's Colombian.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: fought in Ukraine, now is on the front lines in
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: Michoacán with the cartel, and he will wear, he wears
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: the Colombian flag patch, Ukraine, and now Mexico. And he even, like,
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: kind of, in a video that was circulating that I
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: saw of him, he was bragging about it, like, a Colombian,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: and I was in Ukraine, and now I'm with the cartel, fuckers, yeah,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: in Mexico. Shit.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: Any idea how many people they've recruited from the Ukraine?
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: I have no idea. And I'm telling you, it's like
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: this has been the hardest thing to track down. It
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: is so hard. It appears like either nobody's keeping track
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: or nobody wants to keep track or it's happening under
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: the radar, which I don't think it is.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: Do you have any idea how much? I'm just curious.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a ton of U.S. GWAT veterans that.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: Are I saw so many of them.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: You know, that are over there right now. I think
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: they've already called U.S. special ops guys down there helping.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: Out, training. I've seen a lot of it. There were
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of Americans there, especially at the training facilities
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: that we went to. Not the drone training.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: Wait, in Ukraine or in Mexico?
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: In Ukraine. Sorry, were you asking me about Ukraine or Mexico?
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: Mexico. Coming from Ukraine to Mexico.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: So American GWAT guys that were serving in Ukraine voluntarily
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: and then went to Mexico?
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: No, just GWAT in general before Ukraine. I'm saying there
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: is a large pool of combat experience to draw from
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: today to train cartels. Yes. To fight with cartels. And
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: they have a lot of money.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: And experience.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, cartels have a lot of money.
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 2: To pay for these guys?
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I've– there have been some things that I
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: have seen that it's very clear that there are some
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: individuals from the U.S. who are very highly trained that
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: are offering some training services to cartel fighters.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: You've seen this? Seen it?
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: Not in person, but I've, I've received information and I
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: have to say this in a way where I don't
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: make this risky for myself. Um, it's not, this isn't
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: like a common thing that's happening. Okay. It's not like
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: this systemic issue, but it exists.
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: You know, that would be interesting for you. I mean,
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: I know you're, uh, obviously involved with ironclad. They've got,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of people within special operations. It would be
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: interesting if you could source somebody yourself or through them,
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: maybe who doesn't have a face on the internet, to
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: go down there with you and assess tactics and see
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: if they think that some of the tactics that these
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: guys are using are coming from US special operations. I
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: would like to do a story like that.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: It would be interesting.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: It would be good. You could get somebody in there
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: with you that doesn't have a footprint on the internet.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: And they can clock exactly what tactics and methods are
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: linked back here.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could probably get to a training facility.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: I know Luis got to a training facility, brought us
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: footage of it. Yeah. You know, and was a very
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: good training from what he showed me. It was horrible.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: It's very rudimentary.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: But. I'm sure there are different levels of operations going
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: on within the cartel. At least I would think as
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: sophisticated as they are in business. I'm sure militarily they
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: have their elite all the way down to here's a gun,
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: go shoot. Yeah. But if you could get a guy
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: like that into one of these facilities to just observe,
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: they would be able to tell you where this is
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: coming from.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: The only problem with pursuing a story like that right
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: now is just everything is very hot. It would be
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: very dangerous. I wanted to go to some regions in
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: Sinaloa when I was there to kind of see– who
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: was running the show, especially if it was like historically
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: El Chapo's region. Okay, what's going on there now? And
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: even some of my sources within the cartel were like,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: it will be dangerous for you. It's like, shit, okay,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: if you're saying that, it's a no-go. And a lot
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: of these training facilities have become like kill houses. They're
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: very violent now, especially the ones run by CG & G.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of fighting to the death, sacrificial stuff.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: It's sacrificial. Yeah.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: Like killing, killing, kill this guy in front of everyone
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: else or beat, beat him up. Yeah. So it's, it's
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: extreme violence. And of course, stuff that they, that's, that's
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: type of stuff that they do not want publicized. It's
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: bad PR for them. So when, when two years ago, um, the,
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: what's called the extermination ranch, um, in Jalisco was found,
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: Rancho Iseguerre, like 60 kilometers outside of Guadalajara. That was
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: said to have been a CGNG recruitment camp and training camp,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: but it was also an extermination camp. A lot of
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: people were taken there to die. A lot of people
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: died there. A lot of people were forced to fight
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 2: to the death or just really heinous, violent behavior. And
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: it seems like that's the MO now for these cartel
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: training and recruitment camps. There's a lot of extreme violence
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: that goes on. So I would draw the line there
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: for me personally.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: Are these all Latin American fighters that they're recruiting from Ukraine?
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: Or are they recruiting from all over the world?
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: It seems like so far, my knowledge, just Latin American.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? Do you think it's price?
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: For the cartels? I think it's price and language.
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: Language.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: They can communicate with them and they don't have to
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: pay them a ton.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: Are you seeing, you know, I kind of mentioned this earlier,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: like you're talking about DGI shipments and stuff. I would
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: think that's a little bit. I mean, I'm actually surprised
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: to hear that, that they're ordering drones from DGI. Those
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: are expensive, even if they're stealing them. I just, why
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: are you hearing any of, are you hearing any 3d
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: printing is what that's the new jam. It is. It's
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: 3d printing factories, whether you're in, you're in Ukraine, Haiti, Haiti,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: it's happening all over the place. It just, they, they, they,
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: take over a building, do whatever, and they make a
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: 3D printing house and they just are shitting out drones
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: every second. Are they doing that down there?
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: So from what I've seen, it's not common at all
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: to 3D print the drone itself, but they are 3D
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: printing certain components for the drones themselves. that are dropping bombs,
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: not the kamikaze drones, but like literally an FPV drone.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: They'll 3D print certain components to attach whatever to it
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: or enhance it to whatever they need. I mean, I
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: could even, I could give you some videos. I'm being
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: sent videos left, right, and center.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: I would love to see some videos. Yeah.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: I have a ton of drone videos in my phone
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: because Um, these guys are really proud of it. So there's,
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: they're sending it around. I get drone videos as soon
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: as the bombs are dropped from the drone, essentially. And
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: you can see where they've like altered the drone and
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 2: the expensive part of buying those. It's not a problem
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: for them. Um, they're using these to target mostly law
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 2: enforcement and adversarial groups. but particularly for law enforcement because
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: it keeps law enforcement away from their hub of operation.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I have seen more drone videos than I'd
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: like of people getting exploded, locations getting exploded, convoys of
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: law enforcement getting exploded.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: Is it one drone? So here's what I'm getting at next.
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: You know, right? Like those are the, you know, And
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: that's actually the old days now. You know, one improvised
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: explosive on a kamikaze drone. Do you hear anything about
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: cartels investing into large language models, AI-type software, so that
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: they can run entire drone swarms where it's not an
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: individual operator per drone? They actually have some type of
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: a large language model that they can get 50, 100, 1,000 drones.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, if they did that, if they were able
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: to accomplish that, they wouldn't need all the personnel.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: I have not seen that yet in Mexico. It could exist.
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it. They could be keeping it low
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: key or it's just not happening. I think it could
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: certainly get to that point. But so far, I don't
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: think that that's necessary. I think with the status quo,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: with what they have of these large FPV drones, that's
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: good enough for them. But certainly, you're right. For the manpower,
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: it would be great. But I think that the groups
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: that need the manpower the most, like we're talking about
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: fractured cartels for example where they're like needing men they
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: don't actually have the capital to invest in something like
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: that that could make up for their their manpower because
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: they're struggling to keep up with with how it is
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: already gotcha.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: Man we've covered a lot of ground there am i
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: missing uh am i missing anything with the ukraine.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: Connection no that was that was mostly it.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah So we're wrapping up the interview, but what do
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: you think the future, and this could go for another hour,
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: what do you think the future holds for cartels? What
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: do you think they're going to move into? What do
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: you see coming in the future? If you had a
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: crystal ball in front of you, what would it be
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: telling you? Okay.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: There's a couple of major things that I think are
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: going to happen. First, I think that The US government
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: is really going to do anything in their power to
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: try to turn everyone against each other, even if that
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: means somehow starting lies that move through the ranks of
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 2: cartels so that they continue to take each other out,
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: turn against each other, splinter, fracture, whatever you want to
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: call it. I think that in spite of CG &
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: G' s leader being gone, We are only going to continue
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: to see the rise of power and control that CJNG
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: has over the entire cartel landscape, over all of Mexico
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 2: and the global drug trade. They have so much money,
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: power and vision. And they are probably like the foreign
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: terrorist organization. And I don't see that ending. I just,
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's going to grow. And there are some
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: actually very high IQ individuals, particularly in that Valencia family,
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: that are going to ensure that operations continue to run
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: and if not expand. And finally, I think that the
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: next Mexican president will, I think it's probably going to
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: be Omar Garcia Harfuch. the secretary of security. And I
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: think that he's going to work very closely with the Americans.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: It's going to kind of be like, we're flipping a page.
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: It's going to be different than with Claudia Chinbaum, who
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: kind of pushes back. Um, but I don't entirely see
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: that as a positive thing because I think that also
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: Harfuch has sometimes his own agenda, nefarious or not, that
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: he will continue to execute at the same time as
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: handing over everyone to the U.S. or, you know, allowing
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: the U.S. to operate in Mexico.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: Do you... Yeah. I mean, obviously the U.S. has great
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: interest in getting involved at some point.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: To the point that the hand will be forced at
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: some point.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: It already is, I think.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: Are there any other nations that are getting to the
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: point that they're going to have to get involved? Bigger nations.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about Central America. What about Canada? What
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: about any European countries?
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: I think Canada should. I mean, we have a major
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: fentanyl problem over there. It matches that of the US
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 2: and a border problem. I talked about this last time
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: that a lot of the fentanyl precursors are coming in
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: through Canadian ports and none of it's being checked. But
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 2: so far, it seems like that incentive is not there.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: That manpower still isn't there. There's this lack of communication
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: between our law enforcement agencies and bodies from federal to
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: provincial levels. And I actually, a source of mine over
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: there told me that they have been, there have been
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: some certain major drug busts coming through the ports, kilos
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: of meth, and they are not releasing that to the public.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: They're not even putting out press releases because they don't,
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: they don't want that added pressure. So that's already bad,
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: you know, the lack of transparency downplaying the problem. So
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 2: I don't think Canada would get into it. Not to
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: mention Canada is literally extraditing people involved in drug cases
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: that happened on their land. But because it's, you know,
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: DEA helped investigate. These people are going to the U.S.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: They're being extradited to the U.S. for court hearings. So
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: it's already setting this precedent that if they can take
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: the most hands-off approach of it, that they will, which
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: it is what it is. I think in Europe, Spain
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: has a major problem with cartel infiltration and massive amounts
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: of drugs coming in through Spain and then also going out.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: being distributed throughout other European countries directly from Spain, and
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 2: even certain individuals who are directly linked to criminal organizations,
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: even in Mexico, cartels that seek refuge in Spain. So
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, there's quite a few countries who perhaps
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: They don't see it as a problem or they don't
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: want to. But when you're doing this work and you're
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 2: so dialed in and digging into all of it, you
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 2: see how it's all connected and how it can't just
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: be one country taking the initiative for any of these
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: operations to be dismantled in any way because it's so
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: widespread and transnational. It has to be this collective effort.
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Is there anything I haven't asked you yet that
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: I should be asking you?
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We covered a lot.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: We covered a lot.
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, up here.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: We did. We covered a lot. A lot of different scenarios,
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of potential ways to intervene. It was an
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: awesome interview.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. It's really nice to speak to you.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming back. We'll have you again. Where are
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: you heading next? Anywhere in particular?
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want to say though. I'm going on assignment,
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: but I never say it in advance.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 1: You're going to get out. You're going to get into
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: anything non cartel.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that, that'll come for sure.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: We talked about this.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it will come. But right now I'm just doing, uh,
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: you know, the stories that matter there, the cartel stuff,
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: boots on the ground.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: Right on. Well, I'll be excited to have you back
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: at another year or so, but, um, I'm here. Katarina
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: be safe.
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