Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / Shep Gordon

Transcript

Shep Gordon · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: guest this week is super Mention himself, Jeff Gordon. Good
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: to be here. Okay, you were the first time I
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: might have seen you face to face and talk to you.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Was that AIBA for those people don't know, that's a
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: conference in Nashville primarily for fair grounds and you were
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: being honored along with Alice Cooper and they gave you
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the word first and you said, I've learned in my
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: career who's in front and I should be behind Coope
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: And you really said almost nothing. That must have been
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: two thousand and eight maybe, okay, but in the last
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: handful of years you've been on a run of publicity.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: So what changed? Um? The documentary Mike Meyer is making
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: that documentary. UM first to change because I had an
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: obligation to promote it. UM. I I would have been
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: hard to look in the mirror and not promote someone's work.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: After beating up all my artists to make sure they promote,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: they did their promotions. So that was the first wave.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Very uncomfortable, UM making speeches. I have real self worth
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: issues that come out strongly. UM. But I'm I found
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: that I loved moderated discussions UM, so I went through
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: my promotion part of the journey and enjoy the interaction
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: as long as I didn't know the questions that were
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: being asked. UM. It really was sort of like psychotherapy
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: and really fun UM. And people would come in the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: audiences that I knew from past lives, so reconnected some stuff.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: And then when I thought it was over, I started
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: to get a lot of young musicians, managers, UM, at
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: risk people UM who were reaching out to me thinking
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: that I had maybe some frozen food answer, that maybe
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I could make them happy and with two or three
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: war words, And although I know I can't UM, I
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: wanted to try and really fulfill them. I didn't want to,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you know, UM, not give them some hope of a
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: good life or a successful career. So I started responding
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: to the people and that just led to more and
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: more of it. And now I sort of I find
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: myself in a really bizarre position of UM being an
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: inspiration to so many young people and maybe not to
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: myself all the time. Yeah, how does that cross with
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: your self worth issues? Uh? It's really bizarre because it's
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: it's I sort of step into the character and it's
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: ironic because your biggest act is a character. No, I
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: was gonna say, it's very much like Alice who steps
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: in tell Us Cooper. For those who were just starting up,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: shep was the manager through the heyday and it's still
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: the man it so you know, for him, he steps
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: into Alice Cooper, he leaves Alice on the stage. And
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I found that sort of in that same thing. I
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: try and I try and be that person that the
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: documentary made it up here. I am, and there's certainly
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: a part of me that are in that movie. But
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I'm a human. I mean, you know, I failed a
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: million times, which is what I want these people to know. Um,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: and I've done a lot of stupid things and I
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: don't have great self worth and I still got to
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: where I wanted to be. Okay, But you also wrote
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: a book. What was the inspiration? How did that come together?
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: The book was really interesting? The book was I went
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: to just about everything in my life is um knee
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: jerk reaction. Although it appears that I'm very calculated. Um,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I don't really plan, so I didn't think about doing
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: a book. I got a lot of people asking me
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: to do a book after the movie, but it wasn't
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: even in my wheelhouse at all. But I went to
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Roy Choi chef here who started Kogi Trucks, who was
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: one of my heroes, and he had a book come out,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: so I went. I wanted to support him. I happened
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: to be in New York. I went to his book
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: signing party and Anthony Bourdain was there, and he came
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: over him and he said, I got to do your
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: book with you. I have a publishing company. I published
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: roy Choice book. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: for you. And I said why, why? What does that mean?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: He said, you made Emerald Lagas famous. I became famous
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: by beating up Emerald Lagas. I owe you big time. Okay,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: so what did we learn? Although you've given a pretty
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: good answer from suddenly coming out from the shadows and
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: being in this movie, what did we learn? Um? I'm
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: still learning. I I learned that, um, the service is
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: really beautiful. UM, I get a whole bit. Whole life
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: is based on service. But it's usually with people that
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: I know that I have a history that has a purpose.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: But I'll get an email from someone who's fifteen years
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: old and had an abusive childhood and writes poetry and
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: always depressed and what can I do? And I spend
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: a few minutes either in an email or I talked
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: to him, and I think I really helped their lives
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: for that moment. It's all about the human connection and
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: that it's been beautiful because I didn't really have that
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: in my life before. I was so behind the curtains.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: You talk about your whole life, not only growing up,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: you were behind the curtains, emotionally, irrelevantive. Okay, so it's
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: totally different. I mean, you grew up in the era
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I used the line of demarcations really the Beatles. There's
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: before and after the peace and you were of the
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: age and I was. We were conscious, but from six
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: to let's say eighty, and then the empty v era
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: was a twist upon this. If you were successful, everybody
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: knew and there was a thin layer of what was successful,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: whereas today you can make a record, a movie, a book,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and if you can have zero impact or you could have.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: The other thing is these things exist forever. Prior to
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the VCR, basically a movie was in the theaters, might
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: go to the revival houses, but if you haven't seen it,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: it doesn't go on TV. It's like it doesn't exist.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: We're Superman continues to be on all these streaming services.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So what is it like to be the featured person
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: in that movie? Where movies tend to have less of
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: an impact but longer of a life. I'm actually filling
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: in the holes here. I'm more interested in what it's
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: like being on your side of the equation. Yeah, it's Um,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: it's funny. Always really ever asked me, So I haven't
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: really guarded there in my brain. But um I I UM,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I'm sort of proud of myself. Um that your parents
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: proud of you? Um, I have my answer. Yeah. I
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: think my father was always very proud of me. Um.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I think my mother became proud of me when I
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: could afford to pay the rent exactly. But let's say
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: even say that for later discussion. But you're proud of yourself,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: and I'm sort of proud of myself that Um that
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: I that I take the time too to respond to
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: people who who are in need. Um, I went, I
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: went out to dinner last night. Was someone who was
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: a staple of MTV, and this particular person got there
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: before we did and sat in the corner of a
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: restaurant in the b room. Obviously did not want to
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: be recognized, wanted to have a night out. When you
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: go out in Los Angeles, other where are you recognized?
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Sometimes not not overly, um, I mean, not pop star yet,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: but but I enjoy it when I yeah, I really
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: enjoy it. Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: from Buffalo from note from Long Island. I was born
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: in Jackson Heights, raised on Long Island, the ocean side,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: right during that Levitt Town period um when middle class
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: families were going out to a place where it was
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: a backyard at basketball courts. It's um great, great place
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to be raised. Went from there to school. Your father
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: did what for a living? My father was an accountant
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: who never got his c p A. Because he just
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: didn't bother No, he supported his family, his brother and
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: his mother, and he just went right to work and
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: just did his brother's mother, who was still growing up
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: when he became an accountant. And your mother worked outside
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the home or not, yes, in the early days she did.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: She worked to the sales lady or whatever she could do.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: And you have a brother. I have a brother who's
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: a veterinarian veterinarian, really older or younger older three years? Okay,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: so you're growing up. What's your life like out on
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the island. Um, it wasn't a happy life. I mean,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: I think you only know the life you have, so
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: it's hard to tell what it is. Um. But in retrospect,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for me A very I always feel. I
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: say that the first day of my life started at
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: the University of Buffalo. That was my starting point before
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: we get there, and that's important. You're growing up oceanside.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Do you are you a popular kid? Do you have friends?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Have friends? I wouldn't say popular. Um was it? I
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: was on the golf caddy and on the golf team,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: played basketball, had some good friends. Um was Jewish, so
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: got bullied. In those days that bullying was um part
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: of the fabric, especially if you were Jewish. There was
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: always somebody and you handled that. How cried. You're a
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: pretty You're a physically someone imposing guy when you were
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: growing up? Were you also a big guy? Talk? I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: was pretty big, but I was never a physical I
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: never had to fight. My first fight in my life
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and only fight was Bill Graham. Okay, wait wait, wait, wait,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: what what's what's killed down there? What was that about? That?
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  Speaker 1: Was Bill like to have a fight at his shows?
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  Speaker 1: He was pretty famous for that. You know, he'd like
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: to bought. He'd pull a guy out of the stage
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: or have he had he had to do it it
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: shows and um he promoted al Us in Phoenix at
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: the Colisseum. Alice's father is a minister. And I come
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: down and I see Bill Grab holding Alice's farther by
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: the collar, putting them up against the wall. And I
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: was a pretty big guy, and I was pretty rowdy,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: and I was you know, I used them substances to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: get me to places. And I said, you want to
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: fight with someone, pal let's go. And we had a
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: really we had a knockout, like through the doors Danny's
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Aleskoes first job as a security guard was that night
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: at the show. For those who don't know, that's a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: constroma based in Arizona. That this first night working, he
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: sees Bill Grab come flying through the doors. Then I
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: come flying through the doors. Chairs of a flying thing
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: to going The irony is though sometimes with bullies, if
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: you stand up to them, that neutralizes it, and they
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: liked it. I didn't give me a chance it was just,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: what was your relationship like after that? Oh, yeah, no problem,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: did he ever mention it? We'd off the battle a
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: little bit, but they were there. Neither one who us
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: really got hurt, a little bruise, a little this, and
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: it was just it was over. So, how do you
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: decide to go to the University of Buffalo Region scholarship
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: furthest place in New York State Region scholarship you can
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: only use in New York State universities. That was the
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: farthest place from where I lived in New York State.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: For those peop don't know, Buffalo was really far. That's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: gonna be like, it was about a seven hour drive,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: eighty miles something like that. Okay, So you took the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: bus to go to college. If the bus met my
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: partner Joe Greenberg, who was my partner up through Alice,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: probably more significant in the early days of Alice than
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I was um and we stayed. We met on the bus.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: We both were in the Greyhound bus station in Manhattan,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: both of us staying away from our parents, were sort
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of embarrassed to be with our parents. Who was that
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: time in our life. And we sat next to each
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: other on the bus and became buddies and partners and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: we both signed Alice together. Okay, so but you say
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: your your life began first day of Buffalo. Amplify that
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: a little, cause that was the first time I started
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: to see that I had a life. That I didn't
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: know what my life was. But I spent most of
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: my life either on a basketball court or locked in
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: my room. Um, those are the only two things I
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: really knew. And now when I got to Buffalo, I
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: had friends who could come to my house. Nobody could
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: come to my house and the child because that my
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: brother had this dog that bid people, so I never
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: had anybody over. Now, all of a sudden, I'm living
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: in a community of my peers and I can come
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: out of my door. Um, that's mind blowing for me. Um,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: first time early my life that I had any social
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: contact other than my father. Now this is pre internet,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: pre cable TV. And one could argue that Buffalo was
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: kind of off the grid. Well, it was called the
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Berkeley of the East, very very liberal. I went to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the first year it became a state university. Um, and
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: it was that that they wanted to be the Berkeley,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: and they tipped. It was when the scales were tipping
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: too far. So I had three courses taught by Dr
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Marty Kriegel. There were something, nothing and everything. Something. You
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: brought a record and they would play one record. Anything,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: you brought two or more records. Nothing, you brought no
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: records and just sat in the room for a half hour,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: and that was I got credits. Doesn't all the sixties? Sixties?
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: I love it? Okay, But you will start college? What? Yeah,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I graduate, So it must be that's a very transitional year.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: It's the Vietnam time. We burned down the Roxy building.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It we met. Kennedy died the first year as a freshman,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: and I remember all of us meeting in the middle
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: of the street, hugging each other and crying. And then
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: we activated. We act. We actively fought against the war
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: or in Vietnam. We didn't complain, we didn't get angry.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: We acted, which is what these kids in Florida are doing. Now.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you about that. So what do you
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: think about those kids? And I know you sponsored I am.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I am so proud um to be on the same
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: planet as these humans. Um. I was starting to lose
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: faith in humans and seeing them and listening to them,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: I'm completely remotivated. Um so, what do you think happens?
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Because we live in a very divided country where half
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the country seems to say I can't believe what's going on,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and then Trump and his minions just keep marching. You know,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I think on the political reality side of life, it's
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a very dark moment. But that's my that's my view,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and I know there are people who have different views.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: What these kids are doing that I think is so
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: important is they're driving us back to democracy. So as
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: opposed to I am, as I am to the things
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Trump is doing, and personally, I'm really post. If of
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: the people in America voted for a dirty water, I
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: could live with it, then maybe I choose to move.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: But and that's where they're focused. For me, the gun
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: issue is the tip of the iceberg. It's really about
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: getting the voice of the people back into our governing body.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, I wake up every morning angry, listening to
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the news and watching seeing these things, simple things like
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: you can't the Census Bureau now can't tell you how
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: many people were at the march. That's insane, you know,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: it's insane. There's almost a separate podcast, but The only thing,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: the only interesting thing is is that I wait in
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: on this early and I was made aware of the
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: blowback we're talking about. And so what I find is
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and even you know, the the election was called wrong
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: by the New York Times many other things. Unless you
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: have a name with a face, you were not coming
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: up against these people who disagreed with you. And Frank
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: rich Now at the New York magazine he says, because now,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: what are we gonna do about some people are saying, well,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: we should try to convince these people that their ideas
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: are wrong. And then Frank which says, you can't do that.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: You just have to get out the vote. You have
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: to get out of the vote. And so the interesting
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: thing is we sit here and talk. You know, it's
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: just like the demonstrations themselves. Will they make a difference.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Having lived through the sixties, you're optimistic. Having lived through
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: the last few decades, you're pessimistic. I think I think
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: they have a real I think if there era has
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: been a chance, this is a chance. And the things
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: they're doing is so brilliant. I tried to support the
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: kids of Maui to help him out, and we did
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: a big benefit. We did a free concert. Jack Johnson
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: play and Steven Tyler and Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson all
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: donated time said yes in a minute, and all of
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: us talked about and we talked on stage. We had
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: fifteen kids talking. Everybody's concern was how do we move
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: forward and not how do we move forward to beat
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: some political party. How do we move forward to get
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: people to vote, because that's what makes our country so great.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: And it stopped in Mauie. We get fift vote to turnout.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: We have the lowest voted turnout in the world. Everybody stoned.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: It's wild. It's just they don't care. And then I
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: don't think there's they realize that they can affect the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: world they live in. Well, I mean, after what happened
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: in the year two thousand and in Virginia a couple
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: of months ago, the individuals vote really does count, does count?
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: So so what they did a couple of days ago,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the kids from from Florida, they started an organization for kids,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: students who are under eighteen to get their parents and
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: their grandparents to pledge to vote. White grandparents is going
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: to say no to the twelve year old kid. None
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: And in Maui. We're gonna take it one step further.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: We're going to provide transportation if you're under eighteen to
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: pick up your parents and your grandparents and take them
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: to vote, assuming they don't rig the voting. So that
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: that's a whole other question. Yeah, that's hard for me
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: to help. But you know, you know that I've actually
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: experienced that, which growing up in Connecticut, I never had that.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: You want to go to vote, maybe wait five minutes,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: you can wait like an hour to vote. I mean,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: if you're someone that's responsibility. No, no, it's it's terrible thing. Okay,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: So you're at you be and you're thinking your future
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: is going to be what. Um, I didn't know really
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: at all, never thought about it. I um started in
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: ub I started selling drugs. Um selling drugs as a
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: hobby or saying this is a way to make money,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: way to make money. Yeah. And now this, of course
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: is when most people harrow and his death, they don't
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: know what marijuana is. And are you afraid at all
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: of getting arrested? Um? No, absolutely, yeah, no, absolutely. It
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: wasn't that I wanted to do and I just didn't
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: ever resources and that it's voke. But my freshman year.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I loved it. I wanted it for myself, and then
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: people started asking, Um, so it made sense and I
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: ran poker games. Okay, I have to ask because you're
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: talking about Buffalo, and I'm not that Buffalo fluid. But
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: a few in the early seventies, the Weinstein brothers were
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: the concert promoters in Buffalo. I knew Harvey. Well that's
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the question. What was Harvey doing when you were in Buffalo?
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Probably the same thing, but I'll never tell what. But
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: what was his day to day life? Harvey and Corky
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: they had a promotion company even when you were there. Yeah,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: it was very successful. I think it maybe start at
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: sixty sixty seven. Um, in the sixty this is right
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: in the beginning. Um, I think I went to a
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: James Brown show they did or something. So h Anyway,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: you're selling Marilana and running a poker game, running a
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: poker game, and so you are inherently entrepreneurial. Yeah, I'm
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I'm now learning who I am. I'm learning about myself.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: I'm finding way to survive, um, things that I never
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: really did before. So for me, this is again it's
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: like the first day in my life and up seeing
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: who I am. I'm starting to realize some of the
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: skills that I have, although I don't think of as skills.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I think of as life support at that time, and skills.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Wasn't okay while you're there. Your parents checked out leaning
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: on you. No, No, they were, they were. Um, they
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: moved to Florida. My dad had a series had ten
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: or eleven heart attacks. It was it was during the days,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: and they didn't have bypass or stints, so he would
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: have that uhly nitro glycer in capsules which he took
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: all the time. Um, and they moved out to Florida.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: I checked out of school on a psychiatric leave for
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: six months, well a little slower. So how long were
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: you in college before this happened. I was there three years,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I think it was. So what was the psychiatric leave about?
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: It was I had I always had teachers who gave
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: me grades for giving him marijuana, and I had a
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: couple of teachers pull out and I would have failed
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the causes and the only way to not fail him
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: was to get a psychiatric leave. So okay, So there
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: was no real psychiatric event, and so what did that mean?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: You gotta go away for six months? So I went
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: down to Florida. I live with my parents. Um, they
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: had a want a studio apartment, so I slept in
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: a big closet. And how you know these are Jewish parents,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: How how do they feel about your absence from school?
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: My mother was always tough on me. My father just
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: loved me purely. It was like pure love. So he
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: would go along with my mother. But and did you
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: work when you were in Florida? So six months you're
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: crying in your beer, so to speak. And then you
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: go back to you be and then I go back
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: to you be. Graduate. Um, I don't know what I'm
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: gonna do? Was the sociology major? Not much you can
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: really do. My cousin offered me a job in New York.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: He had a place called Divine Garments, which made suits
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: and dresses for funerals. Um, so I knew I had
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: a job. So I applied to the New School for
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Social Research because it had just started and I heard
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: about him. By that point in my life, I started
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: thinking of myself like on a white horse. Um, as
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to save the day kind of guy. Um,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: just I don't know where that came from. What you're
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: gonna and you're living in New York, going to a
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: new school, working in the garment. You're gonna save who
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: and what? I don't even know, but I just a
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: new school for social research would lead you to either
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: a welfare worker or a probation officer. Those were the
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: two jobs there were actually okay at the time when
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: new school started. Was there actual degree program? Yes, it
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: was no doctorate, but I think a master's um. And
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you paid for this house, um going to the vine
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: garments so you can make it. Ye, maybe had a scholarship.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I don't quite really remember. I do remember that the
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: first blimpies was on the corner. So I had a
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: blimpie sub a thing, all right, and it had great lighting.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: So I would study there a little bit. UM and
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: a recruited came from California. From you felt I'm gonna
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: be a probation officer. I didn't know what I was.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I was gonna be something to help people. Um that
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: that seemed to be my inclination. Um and a recruited
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: came from the California Probation Department. It was during the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Reagan era, he was governor, and they were really abusive
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: to hippies. There were always pictures of them up against
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the wall. There was that big song some Flower in
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: My Hair in San Francisco. So I always wanted to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: go to California. They came in and I said, you know,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do this job if I get accepted.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: And they accepted me. So I went out to California.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: It's a probation officer Los Petrinos Juvenile Hall. It's been
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: an hour outside of l A still exists, which direction
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I don't remember, I don't even know it. Okay, so
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: you get this at about an hour. Okay, at this
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: point you fly to California, you drown, hitchhike to California
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: only in the Yeah, hit shike maybe three quarters of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: the way, and end up somewhere along the way selling
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: some acid to someone. So I had enough money to
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: get an aeroplane ticket for the last quarter, then hitchhike
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: in a friend of mine named Richie Lawrence, who just retired.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: He he ended up owning Abrahams, Ruby, Uff and Lawrence,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: the big commercial agency. He was. He'd gotten a job
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: as a producer and I can't think of the name.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: That was one of the talk shows, Crane less crane
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: talk show. So I slept on his floor until school
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: till probation office started and went down. And the first day, UM,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I had long hair past my shoulders. And the first
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: day at the probation department, UM, they told me to
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: take the kids out to play softball, but they didn't
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: tell me I was going to be the softball and
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: the kids. There were no other guys around, and the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: kids really kind to me. They could have hurt me,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: but they got around me. They started hitting me a
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: little bit with the bats, and I knew this is
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I was set up. It was by this point I
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: had some street smarts so for my stuff in Buffalo,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: so I knew they was set up. And I just
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: went back in and took my badge off and said, okay,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I'm leaving. So one day, you're not even a whole day.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I didn't make the whole day. UM. Drive into l
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: A and however it's still clearly getting in. I get
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: off the freeway on Highland and I get trapped in
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the right lane where you can't keep going. So I
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: make that right and now I'm on found on Franklin
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Avenue and there's a motel signed vacancy. So I had
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: maybe five hundred dollars in my pocket and a couple
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: of hundred hits of acid, and I pulled in. It
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: was like thirty dollars for the night. Give me a
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: room two two four up in the corner. I go
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: up into the corner um and I take some of
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: my products and uh, I hear a girl screaming, and
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I've just come from a jail. So I had never
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: thought of anything but something bad. And I go down
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: on my white horse. Did jew from Long Island saving
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: the day? Here he comes to save the day. And
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I separate the two of them, and she punches me,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and I've been hit again. It's like and she they
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: were making love. It wasn't you know. It was a
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: beautiful thing. And when I go down to the pool
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: in the morning, the girl ends up being Janis Chopolin,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: just completely random, like okay, But I have to ask
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: at this point, Jannis Chopolin is famous. When you went
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: into the light of the day, do you realize it's
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Jannis Choplin. Yes, but I wasn't that much of a
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: music free but but she was sitting with Jimmy Hendrix,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: which blew my mind. Almost speechless. Okay, so you certainly
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: recognized and the Chambers brothers, UM and people I didn't know,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: who Paul Rothschild, who I got to know, who was
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: a great producer for the doors, Um, who else? A
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: couple of the Credens clear Water guys with it that
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: day was it was called the Hollywood Landmark Motel. Sadly
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: it's where Janice um. But it was rock and roll
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: heaven for people who hadn't I didn't have in those days.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: There was no scale of economy, you know. Alice Alice
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: played sold that Madison Square Garden in seventy two. It
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: was a dollar fifty a ticket, so acts didn't make money.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: It wasn't like you made money. Chambers, whether it's cousins,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: slept in my car in the in the lot at
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: the hotel, um and when I saw him. So now
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: now it's I've been one day in probation department. I
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: get hit at night. Now all of a sudden, I'm
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: in front of Jimmy Hendricks, Janis Joplin, Credence clear Water,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: all these people, and my mind says to me, oh
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: my god, I now have the greatest customer base for
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: my business in the history of the world. Okay, Okay, okay,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: let's just go back. I want to go really slow.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: You're literally driving down Fountain and your Franklin okay, and
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: nearly say that it could have been a different hotel
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: in the whole story. Never gonna happen, It never happened,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: never happened. Okay, Well, return to this conversation with Chef Gordon,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: super mentioned manager extraordinaire in a moment. You're listening to
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: the Bob Left Sets podcast, recorded here at the tune
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: In Studios in Venice, California. Each week, I interview a
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: new guest and dive into their lives and careers. If
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: you enjoy listening to it, subscribe, rate, and review the show.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Please also check out some of the earlier episodes, like
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: my conversation with songwriter Diane Warren or they head of
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: music for YouTube and Google, Lee or Cone. You can
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: hear them all on tune in, Apple Podcast or your
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: podcast player of choice. And now Morley, Chef Gordon, Okay,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you obviously have a product these people want, absolutely, So
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: then what happened? So we start a relationship, we become friendly.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Um I saw you know, getting a little money, Um
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I buy a nineteen fifty four Cadillac limousine because I
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: was a jerk, but I bought it. Chamber's brother's kids
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: started sleeping in it. That cousins, and you're continue to
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: live in the hotel. I'm in the motel. You lived
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: in a motel for I think a year and a half,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: two year and one day. Was sitting around a pool
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and Jimmie Hendrick says, I think I had just gotten
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: like a new watch or something. And Jimmie Hendrick says,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: what are you going to tell the police if they
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: ask you? Where did you get the money for the
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: rent in the car and this stuff? And I said,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I'm a middle class kid from Long Island. The police
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: don't ask you. And he said where I was raised.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: They asked you. You better have a story. He said
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: you Jewish and I said yeah. And he said he
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: should be a manager. All the managers are Jewish. And
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I said, great, who should I manage? And Lester says,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: I have this guy from Phoenix in my basement, Alice Cooper.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I bet you if you give him ten dollars a week,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: you could be a manager. So Dallas tell us a
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: story of Lester Cubby Gett is saying I found that
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: jew is Lester cham Chambers. I don't give you ten
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: dollars a week to be your manager. So they all
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: come over to the motel and I give him all
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: the bag. By that time, I was selling grass, also marijuana,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: and then I give him a bag of it if
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: we go. Okay, you're the young jew from Long Island.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Does Jimmy Hendricks and Janice job and they accept you.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Albert Grossman was their manager, right, but even
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: before you, before you become the manager, you're an unknown
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: quantity of a young age and I had what they wanted. Okay.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: So and you have the gift of gab. You ingratiated yourself.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was okay. So at the time you
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: become Alice and I made groupies. My first experience with
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: groupies because those days it was free. Sex was part
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: of the fabric. There was no age. It was the
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: worst thing you got, okay, but you weren't famous. No,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: But I was in now, I was in that circle.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I was in the hotel. The hotel was sort of
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: the group they all, you know, girls thought if they
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: could get to anybody in the hotel, then then maybe
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: they could beat Jimmy exactly. Okay, so then you know
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: you're very young at the time. But for those who
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: have been around for a while, very few of these
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: people live up to the image Jimmy Hendrix, Janis Joplin.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: They were. They were amazing to me. They were amazing
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: to me. I mean, I can't say enough good stuff.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: They treated me like an equal. Um, help me and
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: so many things. Yeah, I didn't know anything. I didn't
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: know anything. So um, I said, what do I do?
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: And they said, well, you get them jobs and you
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: get him a record contract. How do I get them jobs?
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: And let's just said, you know, we're playing a big festival.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I forgot the name of in that, but I'll get
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I'll I'll tell our agent. They gotta put Alice on
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: the show. And it was our first show. We played
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: to like thirty or forty people down. No, it was
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not really important. But okay, you obviously run out
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: of product at some point, how do you know? No, no, no, uh,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: we had supplies. We we had you know, we had
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: It was a business. Okay, So your supplies came from
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: your usual connections. Okay, so you didn't have to find
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: new connections in Los Angeles, which would raise your risk.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Do you get involved with Alice Cooper? And is he
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: already put out his records with Frank's APPA. He's done nothing,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: He's done nothing, Okay, so how do you get the
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: deal with straight records? As soon as I meet Alice,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: he says to me, oh, by the way, Um, we
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: played a couple of days ago for Frank's APPA and
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: his manager, Herbie Cohne, offered us a deal and said
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: he was going to manage us. So you have to
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: tell him that you're doing it, not him Herb Cone,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: because I was giving a ten could be. So I
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: go to Herb Cone office on will Chair Boulevard. Also
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: living at the motel the Landmark with the G T
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: O s who rolls together outrageously. I became very friendly
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: with um. They would feed me um. They were great,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: great girls. UM. So I knew them. And I get
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: to the lobby and they're in the lobby of Herb's
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: office and what are you doing it? He manages us?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Where on his lay? Wise that guy that I signed,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper, he's on the label too, but I'm going
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: to manage him. So I get called into hers What
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: are you doing here. I said, I'm Alice Cooper's manager.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: He said, no, no, I'm Alice Cooper's manager. No no,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: they He ends up running after with a chair, screaming
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: with the chair and uh Mrs Christie and Mercy and
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Pamela get in the middle of the here the screaming,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: run into the office and get me out of the office,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and like stand between me and her while he's got
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: a chair trying to hit me. Get me out of office.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I get the Wow, this management thing is pretty weird.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: It's what everybody in l A. What's they hit me?
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: And so we got through it. Um, it wasn't a
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: great experience. The Frank Zapper error. Okay, so he a lot.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: He agrees to let you manage the band. You put
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: out two records. This isn't in an era with as
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: much less cacophony, so you could get noticed. But the
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: records were not highly reviewed or did they sell well
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: at the time. Don't completely god disasters, I think less
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: their bangs. And Rolling Stone said, uh something. Walt Disney
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: had the good sense to leaving the can So, okay,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: you had this deal. Was there any money involved in
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: the deal? Nothing? And the records came out. I shouldn't
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: say nothing. I think it was six thousand dollars was
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: the minimum to make it legal, but they made deductions
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: in the six thousand. We owed them money to make it.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: And then what was the being living on? Um my dealing? Basically? Okay,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: and two records that you know, the momentum is an
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: heavy here. What are you still believing in the dream? Well?
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: We we yes, because we had no other dreams. This
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: has to work. This has to work, and we um
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: we make a pact amongst us. I remember the conversation
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: I had with him, which I said, listen, it took
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: twelve guys or eleven or twelve. I'm not a religious
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: guy to make Christianity. We don't have to be that big.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: We got six. I'll take care of the amount of people.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: We just got to believe because just like in Christianity,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: it's belief. It doesn't necessarily be reality. So if we
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: believe strong enough, we are going to make this happen.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: And we all shook hands that we were going to
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: stay together until we got to the place, and we, uh,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: how are we going to do it? That became the
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: first conversation, Okay, how how are we going to do
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: it obviously doing a record, which happen. That's none of
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: that stuff is gonna work. And we talked about what
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: what was our strength, and our strength was that everybody
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: hated Alice Cooper. Um, we'd play holes, everybody would leave. Um,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: Lester Banks are saying it's something Walt Disney. So that
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: that was our strength, which is not easy. When you're
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: opening for the doors and you can get two thousand
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: people to leave a building, that's not easy. So I said,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: you know, let's when I was in college at social
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: at New School, one of the professors talked about he
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: was talking about art and social culture and how, um,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: people's likes are very narrow. So when you pick up
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: when when you deal with an art you have get
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: a narrow audience. The things that get big our social waves.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: And he used the example of Elvis Presley. He said,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: when Elvis Presley's hips couldn't be shown on its sullivan
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: he became an overnight success because he tapped into what
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: every child goes through, which is rebellion of their parents. Um,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: it's the clothes, it's the music, it's it's everything. There's
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: a there's a wave that every kid goes through a
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: rebelling against the parents, and we said, well, wait a second,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: that's what we know how to do. We know how
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: to get people to hate us. We can get those
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: parents to say Alice Cooper is the most disgusting thing
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: in the world. At breakfast, we will get the kids
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: to do anything to go see Alice Cooper. Now, at
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: this late day, there's been a re evaluation of those
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: first two records more positive than it was at the time.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: But there is a gigantic leap between those first two
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: records and Love It to Death. And one would say
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: that no matter what the philosophy was, that you just
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: lucidated without good music, and well, no, no, we realize that.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: So so that the first part was that, okay, here's
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: our strength. So that led us to doing Alice Cooper.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: That led us to trying to do you know, going
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: on stage naked to the chicken biting. But we also
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: realized without great music, there's no way to make it.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: So in the same way we did that, we sat
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: down and we said, okay, who is the least significant
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: band and I don't mean this in a bad way,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: who's had the most amount of hit records? The Beatles
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: had hit records, but they're significant. The Rolling Stones had
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: hit records. That's significant. The guests who from Canada. It
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: was a band. Nobody really knew they were making the
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: greatest records ever American woman. Well, so we went to
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: the back. The greatest records but not thought of as
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: the real deal. So he said, who's doing these records?
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: So we looked on the back. It was Jack richardson
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Nimbus nine Toronto. My partner and I got on an
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: airplane and we flew to Toronto. We sat in his
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: office for three days. He wouldn't even see us, but
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: we made this guy was doing the record. And the
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: back story is that he hired Bob Ezra two days
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: before and the first thing he told Bob, and your
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: first job is get these guys out of my office
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and do not say yes. But we got him to
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: say yes, and he came to Max's Kansas City, he
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: saw Alice. He said he would do it. We assumed
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: we had Jack Richardson, which we did. He did do
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: the first record. Jack and the rest of the sort
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: of history before we go there. You talk about your partner,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: and you mentioned it earlier, but how did you You're
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: living in l a in the Landmark. How is your
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: partner moved in with me? So you called him up
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, you gotta come out here? And how
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: what was the division of labor um? I think he
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: carried much more of the ball than I did. Probably
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: in the beginning days. He got Alice's first show with
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Bill Graham and San Francisco, opening for Icentina Turner. He
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: did tell him that Alice was a female folk singer,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: and Bill threw him off the stage. His exact line was,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: on I fucking stage, you either do music or you act.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: You're not doing both of them on my fucking stage.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Get out of here. Really, how long did it last
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: with you and Joe? I'm less than until I would
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: say seventy five? End um. We had some personal issues.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: We ended up flipping a coin, one person to take
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: the business, one person to take the money, and he
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: won the coin flip and he chose the money. If
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: you would won the coin flip, would you have taken
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the money? Probably? Yeah? Okay, So you get involved with
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Bob bes Wind and Jack Richardson does Love It to
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Death album. Now that record doesn't do the album he does.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: It's more complicated than that. So I go to my
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: representative at Warners, Clyde Bachimo, and say I got Jack Richardson.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: He's agreed to do four tracks, start the record and
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: see how it goes. And Clyde's flipped out. He said,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: we've been trying to get to do business with Jack
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Richard Are you kidding me? That is the greatest thing.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: And then he called him back and he says, we
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: can't do it. Herb Cone won't allow it. What do
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: you mean? Her conelt he doesn't want to hit. He's
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: scared you've gotta hit. What never made sense to me
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: too till years later, Right, so what was the sense?
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: What what happened was And I'm not looking for a lawsuit,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: but Herb and his brother were dead. Yeah, so so
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: what happened as I put the pieces together. Herb and
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: the head of Warner Brothers Records at the time, More Austin,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: were very good friends. And I don't mean to denigreat
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Mo at all. Life is life. You do what you
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: have to do U. And they used to travel to
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: France every year. Herb had an apartment in France they
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: stayed in. They brought drugs together, they did a lot
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: of things together. They were very very close. Warner Brothers
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: gave her and Frank's Appa label UM and a lot
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: of money, and that money was to record albums. The
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: way the way record deals worked was if you had
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: a label, maybe they'd commit to four artists, two albums.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Each artist would be a budget. In our case, the
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: budget but I think two hundred thousand record UM. So
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: now they have an eight album distribution deal. And let's
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: say it's two hundred thousand a record, that's a million six. Well,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: if they only spend one dollar on the record, that
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: million six goes in their pocket. So if you look
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: at the artists the Bizarre signed, it was wild Man Fisher,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: who didn't have a band, didn't play a guitar, was
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: in an insane asylum. The g t o S who
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: are in a group Alice, who everybody thought was the
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: laughing stock of the world. There was no chance these
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: guys were ever going to sell one record. We did
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: our first album. We showed up at Whitney Studios to
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: work with Frank's Appa. He came at nine o'clock, introduced
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: us to his brother. The band thought they would rehearsing.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: He came back at five o'clock took the tapes and
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: that was the end of the album. That was it.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: It was nine o'clock to five o'clock. So he pocketed
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of money. The only way he would have
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: to give up that money if anybody sits the producers,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: if anybody sold records. So the last thing he wanted.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: We ended up in a major lawsuit because a team
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: came out of those four tracks and the label change
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: probably twenty times because I would I would go in
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: and say, you're not putting this out on straight. He
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: wouldn't pay for it, um, And then he would go
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: in and MO would call me up, I gotta put
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: it if I have to put it on straight, um.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: So the label changed the copy I have sets straight, Yeah,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: and there's a lot of Warner Brothers ones so um.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: But in any event, he does four tracks and Edrind
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: does uh the rest of the track, and I think
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Edd's part of it. I think they sort of do
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: it together. But what happened was one of the reasons
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: that I wanted Richardson so bad was because there was
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Canadian content and c KALW was the breakout station in America.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: It was out of Canada, but Wixie in Cleveland and
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Rosemary Trumbley, who was programming with c KLW. If she
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: played a record, you had a hit. And by doing
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: it in Canada with Jack Richardson, we came under the
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Canadian content rule and she had a place seventy five
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: or eight percent Canadian content, and that got us on
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: and when it went on the radio, Um, you could
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: still manipulate sales. You know you you knew the record
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: stores were the singles were, so you could send people
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: into buy them. And I had every relative I had
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: in the world, and every Alice relative calling c kl W,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: A hundred times of data requested and it just popped
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: and then it took off on its own. But a
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: good album, nonetheless, dream Oh My Out of Dwight, Okay,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: but suddenly you have airplay. But to someone who's not
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: involved in the center, it doesn't. It looks like it's
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: more than a blip, but not a whole hell of
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: a lot more than a blip. Okay, So what's the
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: thought after that? Everything all the same, The thought is
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: all the same. It's where the more power we're getting,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the easier it's going to be for us to hear
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: atate parents. So we now have a record that's starting
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: to hit. I do. I get Barbara gear Warners, who
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: by now is having a little faith in me, to
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: do a coming out party at the Ambassador Hotel for
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: a debutante named Alice Cooper. We don't tell the hotel,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: we don't tell anyone. Um, and you get up to
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: what we invide all the music people that Bob calls everybody,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: you know, the important people, and said, you've got to
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: be here for this. You won't believe it. And it's
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: debutante season and everybody's at the Ambassador. Well every debutant
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: party is. So you pull up to the thing in
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: it the dis these girls would trade to meet you.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: They weren't girls. They were the cockettes from San Francisco, transvestites.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: And this is in seventy um with cigars, cigarettes vasiline,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: which I still love. Then there were guerrillas. The entertainment
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: was TV Mama, who was four d pounds who came
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: out of a cake. Um. I went over to her
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: manager during the afternoon and I said, is there any
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: way we could get TV Mama to take her top off?
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: And he said to me, Son, to you, she's TV Mama.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: To me, she's TV dinner. That would be two hundred
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: extra and we have a great picture of her breast
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: hitting am it her again in the face of the
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: front row. And that started the journey. And then we
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: just did everything we could to tell how people say,
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: this is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. That
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: was our That was what we wanted for us. Winning
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: was getting a parent at the breakfast table to tell
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: their kids if they ever here. I'm listening to Alice Cooper,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: they grounded for a month and to what degreed do
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: you believe? The success of hip hop today is based
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: on the same theory, exactly the same theory. I can
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: remember I walked I have four adopted kids. I walked
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: past their room at one o'clock in the morning, I
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: heard for the first time wrap in hip hop. I
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: opened the door and I said, how can you listen
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: to this ship? And as I said it, I looked
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: at him and I said, oh God, here's the next wave.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Well staying here, you know, of course, of course, you know,
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: we used to have a new sound every three years.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: You know, we had here being music replaced by Seattle
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Sound in the twenty one century. It hasn't gone down
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: that way. But the same tiking people are aging every day.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: So we have parents who grew up with hip hop.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: This may not be your number one focus this days,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: but you're certainly a sociologist. Is something going to come
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: along to bump off hip hop? Oh yeah, I think.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I think you see the edge sharing, you start seeing
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: real songs coming back. There's definitely gonna be a reaction.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but there's always a reaction. Okay.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: So from my viewpoint as an avid fan and music
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: drove the culture back then. We were all aware of
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: the song I'm eighteen, heard a little bit and then
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: it is the end of nineteen seventy one and in
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: a boxed out review in Rolling Stone, Lester Bangs gives
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: a rave of Alice Cooper's Love It to Death and
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: they at the time, uh, rolling Stone was famous for
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: doing hoaxes. They had the Great White Wonder. This was
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: such an over the top rave, Great White Wonder exactly
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: that you said, I'm going to buy this record even
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: if it sucks, because i want to see what's going on.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I remember literally buying the record, dropping the needle on
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: under my wheels, and you got it immediately. The Great
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: White One. The financed us buying all our amplifiers. I was,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I did the Great White One there, okay, well tell
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: my audience what that is. Great White There was a
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: time in the history of copyright lore where it was
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: not illegal to record a live concert and sell it.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: So I was able to record Rolling Stones Bob Dylan
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: and sell it, sell it legally. We did it in
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: white album jackets and the Great White One that was
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: I think Dylan. I don't remember which was which, Um,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: but we did Rolling Stones. We did a bunch and
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: then the copyright law changed. Was that when it was
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: seventy that's wild? Yeah, okay, so did you ever get
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: in trouble? I had one interesting moment I had done
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Oh that's that's right. So it's seventy two. I had
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: done the Toronto Pop Festival, which was seventy two and
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: with John Lennon and the co promoters were people who
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: owned the big department store chained the Eatons in Canada
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: and a film named Kenny Walker. And um, they knew
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: I was did the Great White One because it was legal,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: so I wasn't hiding it from anyone, and they called
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: me up to buy the master tapes. They offered me
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars, which was a lot of money.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, master tapes. I had everything, even thought
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: about thousand dollars um. And I said to him, you
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: know there are no master tapes, and he said, I
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: don't care. I want to buy the master tapes from it.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: And I just my streets nose went up. So I
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: went to a lawyer named David Ruddick. I don't know
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: if you remember him. He he was on Sunset Boulevard
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: as a music business attorney. I told him the story.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I said, what could they be trying to do? Why?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: And they won't come to me. I have to go
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: to them. And he said, you know, the only thing
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: I can think of is if you bring something at
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the Canada and you sell it for two hundred thousand
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: and you didn't report it, that's a serious thing, he said.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: So I'll tell you what to do, he said. I
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: had a customer, Sam, the record man. He was one
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: of my big customers for the Great White One. There.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: So I went, I flew up. I went to Sam's
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: over the counter, bought Great White One. They got a
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: receipt for it. I went to a recording studio in Toronto,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: took that record, put it on a piece of tape,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: got a bill from the recording studio, so now legitimize legitimized.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I go to the hotel on Avenue Road whose name
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I can't think of, and I walk into the suite
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: where the exchange is going to be made, and Kenny
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Walker and then come in and have a suitcase two
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand knowledge Canadian. They open it up, I give
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: him the tape and Alan Klein comes out of the
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: bathroom with four maltis. Alan Clyde was the Beatles manager
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: and I had done Beetles and rolling stones were part
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: of the come out. They put handcuffs on me and
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: my partner Joe, because we were still partners then, and uh,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: we say listen, we knew what they were up to.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: They take us to the station house and I said, oh,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: lawyer knew exactly what they were doing. I said, unless
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: you have a law in Canada that it's illegal to
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: get two hundred thousand for something that's worthless. Here's the receipt.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: We bought it at Sam the record man. Here's the
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: receipt for the studio. They took about half an hour
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: a prosecutor came. We waited for him to come. You
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: look through the receipts and they let us go. It's
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: the last time I ever saw Alan Klein and you
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: didn't get to stay right there, We'll be back with
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: more of Chef Gordon, legendary manager of rock stars chefs
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: and even Groucho Marks right here on the Bob left
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Sets podcast. Hi, this is Bob left Sets. My guest
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: come to the tune In studios in Venice, California to
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: have these conversations with me. And if you ever want
• 52:34
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• 52:36
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• 52:40
  Speaker 1: on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Let's dive right back in
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: with my guest, Sheep Gordon. So, uh, now Killer comes out.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: You start to feel the momentum. Yeah yeah, we could
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: feel it, off of it to death, but we couldn't
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: turn it into monetary success um. Killer. We start, you know,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: billion dollar babies Killer. We start to really fuel our oats.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Now we're in stride and having a good time, okay,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: and then of course the tipping point is schools Out,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: which becomes an anthem and says everything we've focused all
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: that angst for us, it was like doing a Who
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: song that was sort of the top of the wrong
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: was that Who? Who knew how to do anthems of rebellion? Okay,
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: you had all these innovative packages, you know, whether it
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: be Muscle of Love with certain stains on the box
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: or whether it be the panties on. That was one
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: of my biggest mistakes in my career with Alice, was
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: that box. Why? Because I didn't realize that the thickness
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: in those days, most of your sales were rack sales,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: which means you walked into a store that wasn't a
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: record store and they have twenty or thirty records in
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: the stack. I could only do if it held twenty,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: I could only do ten. So my Alice's bins were
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: empty all the time because they only were read. However,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: as a big fan, that album was not as good
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: as its spread us, and I think that was part
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: of it. Also. It was it was when the group
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: was starting to come apart. Okay, Bob Green goes on
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: the road, writes a book. How does that come still?
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: And the book still holds up? But how does that
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: come together? Comes together? My idea, I think he had
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: done a book on the Kennedy campaign on and I
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: wanted real credibility for Alice. UM. I felt that it
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: was time to now go from hatred of the parents
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: to put some steaks in the ground and a book
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: by a guy who did the Kennedy thing to me
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: was putting a stake in the ground. And the same
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: thing with the golf uh no golf. I that was
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: to help him with this alcoholism. I knew it was
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: difficult for his career, um, and a truth to be
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: very difficult for his career. Okay, so then the band
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: breaks up, there's a solo album. What's really going on
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: at that point? You know, Um, it's really interesting. Living
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: in the bubble of stardom is really tough. UM. I
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: have a lot of sympathy for it, and and it
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: became very different points of view on the success. UM.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: The rhythm of a day was that Alice would get
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: up at eight o'clock or nine o'clock in the morning,
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: drink all day, but work all day. He would do
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: fifty interviews every day because it was everywhere in the
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: world and we was so hot, and he was the
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: only one who really could do good interviews. So he
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: was our focal point. We early on in the career,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: um we met it. We maybe ten weeks after I
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: had met him, we went to a lady named pat
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: King police office, who she was the PR person, and
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: we had this idea about parents hating. I said, who's
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: the best person to do with? Someone gave me her name,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: she was gracious enough to meet me. I've brought the
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: band with me and after I talked to she has
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: the band, to go out in the lobby and she said, listen, Chef,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: give me one person named now. Because Alice was named Vincent,
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: he wasn't. Oh okay, So what point in the career
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: did this is it? I'm going to tell you the story.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: So she said, they're going to lobby. Says, Chef, you
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: gotta give me one person named Alice Cooper. I don't
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: know how to make five guys with a girl's name famous.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: You give me one of them that I know how
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: to do. It's the right time. You have a great idea.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: So I go out in her lobby and I said, listen, guys,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: we gotta pick one of you to be Alice Cooper.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Because she said, that's you know the way it's gonna work.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: And she's great, and right there in the lobby we
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: picked Alice. This is before any records. This is before anything. Okay,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: So now, no, no, I think it's maybe after the
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: first record. If you look on the first couple of records,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's Vincent Fernie. It's not Alice Cooper, I believe. Okay,
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: So what point does the band wake up and say, hey,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: wait a minute. So I'm gonna tell you what the
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: rest of it. So he's working hard all day. So
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: but but right at that point, shortly thereafter, we sit
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: him all down and Alice in the group and I say, listen,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: we're going to change his name illegally, which means you
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: guys are in real jeopardy. But um, what we need
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: to do right now we shake hands. The tour all millionaires.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Nobody is leaving this thing. Once you're all millionaires. We
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: sit and talk, but and I was very focused on Alice,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: basically saying, we're giving you the gauntlet. You're not taking
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: this right away from us. This is like you know, um,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: And we all shook hands on it. So we got
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: to the point where we were almost million airs maybe
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: we had three hundred four, which was like millionairess not
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: even know if we had that much, but everyone now
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: could afford a car. Now for the first time, they
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: were all living on their own. Wasn't a group house. Um.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: We were able to fly places. I didn't have to
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: bounce checks. We were starting to really make it and
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: you could see on the horizon. Nine seventy two they
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: had the biggest tour in the world. Led Zeppelin was
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: the second big so he could see it's we're right there.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: And the guys asked me if I would come to
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: a meeting. They never asked me to come to a meeting.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: And I go up to Connecticut and I sit down
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: and they just fomb it out. They said that, Um,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: I had let me back up. I had this running
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: battle with him for the year previous, which was every
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: night they wanted to just do the show in dungarees
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: and not do the theatrics, and every night I would
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: have to get really intense about you know, think about
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: the people in the audience, what they're here for, or
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: forget yourselves. Um and I beat him into it. But
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: it wasn't a happy thing. It was. It got to
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: be very intense every night, and that was what the
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: meeting was about people don't appreciate our music. They think
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: of as a novelty. Alice gets all the attention. We
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: wanted to leave. We want to break up. We want
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: to put it on hold for a year or two
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: and do our own records so people will see that
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: we're really talented musicians. And my take on it was, hey,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: we shook hands. It was so close, like, let's just wait,
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: and they wouldn't do it. Um, And I said, you know,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm gonna go with Alice. I'm not going
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: to be part of your guys journey. It's not First
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: of all, I don't break my word. Secondly, I don't
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: really know what you do. Um. I know you know. Um.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: And we never had a right, we never had an argument.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: We're still all friendly. They just played shows with England. Um. Okay.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: So slowly the band walked from Alice. So at what
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: point did the band, because these are human beings, have
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: sour grapes. I don't know, but I'm sure fairly soon.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: And did they ever come crawling back? Oh? No, that
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: we've both it's not a matter of crawling or anything.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: We've been really good friends. Um. There's never been a
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: moment of anything but friendship and respect for each other.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: They made a bad decision. They made a bad decision,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: but they didn't knock on the door ready to be
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: the backing big they'd love to be back in Yeah, yeah,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: but no reason. So why in the last couple of
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: years have they suddenly been playing with Alice? Because it's
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: a really nice thing to do. Alice loves that, the
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: audience loves it. Um, it's great for them. It's you know,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: it's been a long time. I think it's a great moment.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, our job is to make the audience happy.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: It's not to make ourselves happy. It's the and I
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: you know, when we're writing it, we know that that
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: makes the audience happy. There is a part of the audience.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: So they do three or four songs. At the end,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Alice can still do a show and the way he
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: wants to um, And it's nice for them. They're back
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: on stage and all of them together. They all love
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: each other, these kids who went to high school together.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: So if it's you know, if it's basically is his bifurcation,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: when do you get your next client? I got my
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: next time. Before that, I got Um and Murray was
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: probably seventy three, ish if I maybe a little later.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Okay in Murray this is before Snowbird. No, this is
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: as Snowbird is number one. Okay, how does she find you?
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Who's the previous record company? Go? Brian to Hearn producer
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: met me during the John Lennon days when I did
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: the festival up there. Um I had helped him get
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: his recording studio together, an actron I got want us
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: to finance. We had a good relationship and he called
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: me up about managing her and the record was number one,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: and I I was. I was sort when he called.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: I said, you know, let me this is a great
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: way for me to see if I have any skills
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: or not. Alice was, you know, I have no idea
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: how much I was of it and how much it
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: was fate. So let me see if the principles work
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: for any And I was very open with her and
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: honest that I you know, I don't know what kind
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: of job I can do, and you know I may
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: have gotten lucky, but if you want to take a role.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: And it went on for how long? I went on
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: for about four years, five years, and everybody was happy. Okay,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: let's go back to this era. As we've established, ticket
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: prices were cheaper, the world was both smaller and bigger
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: at the same time. In retrospect that you let a
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: lot of money flow through your fingers. Oh yeah, absolutely,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: well we still do. I never been. I used to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: tell every actor would come in. If you're looking to
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: make the most amount of money, I am so the
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: wrong guy for you. But if you're looking to not
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: need your second name, I'm your guy. Like I know
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: how to make your famous. I'm not the best in monetizing.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: And you look at someone like her career and what
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: he's done to monetize is just so brilliant. My hats
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: off to him every time. Um brilliant. But it's not
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: what I It's just not what I do. Okay. So
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: after we had Murray, then what's next? A couple of
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: really great ones in the middle gradual marks you John
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: or Raquel Welsh? What did you do for Raquel? Raquel
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: was a great one to Raquel called me up and said,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I'm literally I yew that freak that helped make Alex
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Cooper famous said, he said, you take immediate Academy Awards
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night. And I went within the Academy Awards, which
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: was unbelievable. I remember I wore something green and the
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: sweater around my arg pitch made it dark by the
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: time I got there. And she was very honest. She
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: said that she was aging, had two children, she had
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: a support on her own, knew that as a sex
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: star movie Starr, her years were limited in her income
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: and that she needed to make a living in that
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: maybe I could figure out something. And to me, it
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: was so obvious, And Margaret was gigantic in Vegas UM,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: so it was so obvious to me. The highway was
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: already built. I just had to put her on that train.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: So I hired UH and Margaret's choreographer, guy named Robbit Scuff,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: and UM got her a long term deal with Caesar's
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: UM and and was it saying, I mean, you obviously
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: got paid, but people wanted to go, oh yeah, yeah,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: we did really well. Why do you think uh, sex
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: symbol Vegas UM right setting, and Margaret said, a fantastic
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: blazing UM. You know, she was the trailblazer and her
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: shows were incredible. So it was an entertaining night and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: you got to see rac yel was safe for a
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: guy to bring his wife and still maybe get a
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: heart on Okay, So then how do we come with
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Blondie and Luther V Andrew's uh. And then by then
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: I started to get a reputation, um and and I
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: made a decision, UM that the toughest part of management
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: how the artists would react to fame into having a voice.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: So I decided I would only take on acts I had.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough that most artists wanted me to
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: manage him. They knew I didn't sign contracts. The word
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: had gotten around I did unique stuff. So I would
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: only take acts if they had number one records, because
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: then I knew they were sort of fire tested, had survived.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: So Blondie I think was Chrysalis who came to me, Um,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Luther Vandross was okay. So you got involved with Blondie
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: after Heart of Glass hit, after their Heart of Glass
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: before Rapture, and Luther v Andros Luther was after his
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: first record. Let's go a little bit deeper into fire
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: tested with their fame. Give us those people obviously could
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: handle it. Give us examples of people who couldn't. Um,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know, because you don't hear about them. No,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: I don't need the names. Yeah, not not in my life?
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: What would it? What would it look like? Um? It
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: could look like anything. It looks like drugs, it could
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: look like um, um, insanity, it could look like ego, UM,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: so many things. Well, how hard is it to be famous?
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: Really tough? Really tough? What are the key elements to
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: be able to cope? I think having people around you
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: that don't say yes, it's really important. Um. And I
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: think am I found I loved hearing Open Winfrey the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: other day saying the kind of thing I try and
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: always tell my clients. They asked her why she feels
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: she successful, and she says, the most important thing in
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: my life is I wake up every day and the
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: first thing I do before I get out of bed
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: is say thank you. And I say thank you for
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: waking up, thank you for giving me this day, he says.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: And it starts my day with gratitude. Um. And that's
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: what I always tried to really push into the artist
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: that I worked with brain, is that it's not about you,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: it's about them. Um. Okay, you know who was it? Somebody? Uh? Oh.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: The book about Joan Winner and Rolling Stone came out
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: four or five months ago, and Johan is telling relating
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: the story of becoming friendly with John and Yoko showing
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: around San Francisco, going to lunch and somebody comes up
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: for John Lennon's autograph and Lennon says, fuck off. Okay,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: that's the opposite of someone like Jon bon Jovi, who's
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: being nice to everybody. Benning oldly got angry with his
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: record company ironically about a year ago. But you know,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: you have someone like Bob Dylan, who's elusive and an icon,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: and you have other people are glad he and he
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: isn't what makes you famous being the beacon and being
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: different and not worrying about what the audience thinks. I think.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: I think there's a different paths for everything, but for
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: in my journey, I can't take that path. Look at
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: your personal journey, but the and the journey with my art. Okay,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: you know you So we're in a strange era now
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: where unless you're hip hop act, no one's listening to
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: the new music anyway. But do you want to tell
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: you to tell your artists just give them what they want,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: take the pay day, move on. I don't think. I
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: don't think it's a matter of just giving it. I
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: didn't mean it that way, So tell me how you
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: meant it. I meant it. Um. If Alice knows that
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: his audience would really enjoy having the old guys on
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: stage with them, why not do it. It doesn't compromise
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: his art at all. Um. Okay, Let's let's use someone
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: of Alice's vintage. Okay, and let's leave Alice aside. Let's
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: say you were representing, and there's tons of them. Acts
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: had gargantuan hits in the seventies who were still on
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: the road or maybe even the eighties. Do be Brothers
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: in the seventies def Leopard in the eighties, these were gigantic,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: identic and can still sell tickets today. Generally speaking, one
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: believes people want to pay their money and hear the
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: hits per Actually, you have to play the hits. What
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: do you tell an act like that, That is you
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: just say, be thankful that anybody wants to see you,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: or yeah, and play your hits. Okay, And you have
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: to play your hits and what about And I said
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: the same to the chefs when I manage them. You
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: have to play your hits. It's exactly like songwriting. If
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: you went to Spago and they didn't have pizza. That
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: would be like going to the Rolling Stones and not
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: hearing their hits. And then when the artist says, I'm stifled,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: I have to express my creativity. You try and make
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: a balance and help them work through it and get
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: some kind of a balance, um, and try and make
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: it work. And they, unless they're completely unconscious, if they'll
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: see it immediately with the reaction of the audience. And
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: there's I don't know any entertainer who's been in it
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: for a while who doesn't want the the emulation of
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: their audience, all right, right, you know, it's all about
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: the attention. That's where they're doing much more than the money.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: So when the artist says, I'm frustrated, I have to
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: express myself, but I don't think my audience can handle this.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: How do you cope with that? I mean I would
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: It depends on who it is, but I try and work.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe I would say to me, why don't we go
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: to a small club somewhere, try it out, see how
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: it feels. Well, let's do an invited audience. Um, each
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: one is pliable, but but try and keep him on
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: focus about it's a service business, okay, So let's go
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: specifically to Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper certainly has a number
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: of hits, can play to the end of his career,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: selling a certain number of tickets because of the change
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: in society and Halloween becoming such a big deal he's
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: been associated with that. Is there any way to make
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: him bigger than he already is? Um? You know it's
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: it's um. It's hard for me to determine that he's
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: been on a rising. He's been rising. Um. And we
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: just keep trying to the right things. We keept trying
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: to make interesting new product. We try and make the
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: shows as exciting as we can. Um. And we try
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: and be as pure at Alice Cooper, which we can be.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: Everything we judge is what would Alice do? Um? But
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: are we going to be Justin Bieber again? We would
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: love to, of course, we'd love to. But is that reality?
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's reality. But all we have
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: he a happy artist. He just loves what he does.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: How many dates do he does? A hundred and thirty?
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: He does a radio show five nights a week. Um,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: he loves it. He truly loves it. Yeah, I tell
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: he would pay to do it if they didn't pay him.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: So How did you get involved with the Chefs? Um
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: The Chefs was a a work of passion, sort of
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: like I won the con Film Festival in nineteen seventy seven.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: I got taken to a restaurant in the south of France.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: It was Ridley Scott's first movie called The Duellist. In
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: my first movie, And how do you decide to get
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: in the movies? I got in. There was a girl
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: named Carolin Pheiffer who were in, who was Pat Kingsley's
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: associate in England, and she was very instrumental in Alice's career.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: England was very important to us and she was very,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: very instrumental, and we developed a love for her. Alice
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: and I. Alice had a love hate because she worked
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: them so hard. I had a pure love. And the
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: baby on Billion Dollar Babies was her daughter, Lola, the
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: one that Alice is holding up. And the baby had
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: a crib death for six months and Carolin worked out
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: of her house. Charlie Chaplin was the baby's godfather. Um,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: so you know you'd walk into the apartment to be
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, Charlie Chaplin, oh, Marshal Reef. That
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: was the life she lived in, and she called me
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: up and she said, you know, Um, I can't go
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: back into my apartment. I gotta leave the happy job
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: for me. So I said, come on that. She she
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: represented rack Heel, So I said, come on, just work
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: with me on rack Keel. Come to you know l
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: A and we got you covered. So she came in.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: She worked with rack Heel. She brought it in a
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: couple of other artists, Sarah Miles. I don't remember, sis um,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: Sarah Miles. She had read that great controversy which one
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: the guy in the bathtub exactly. So she said, I
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: an article and Esquire about twenty years ago. Exhausted said,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: three guys committed suicide over her. Yeah, well, okay, I'm
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: not a witness. Okay, she that cares. She was certainly
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: attractive though she was very cool. But it is that
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: charismatic that the guy just could not get over quirky.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: But she was great. Um. We did. She wanted to
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: vomit up that whole thing, so we did with Bill
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: Graham at the A c T in San Francisco. We
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: did a one woman show s smiles as me smiles um,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: where she vomited up that whole thing about the finding
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: the guy in the bathtub and it was really beautiful
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: for her. Carolin came and she didn't like management at all.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: So I said, what do you want to do? And
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: she said, you know, I'd love to make movies. As
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: a younger person. She had been an assistant to Omar
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: Sharief on the set of Lawrence of Arabia. It was
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: in her blood. So UM I asked her who she
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: thought she'd like to learn from, and it was a
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: young guy named David Putnam. So I found David and
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: hired him. Hired David. They were on a film company.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: We started a live films in. Our first project was
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: a duelist with FRIDDLEI Scott David produced that the money
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: came from where. Um there was a wonderful man and
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: United artist named David Picker who loved Karen and the
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: way we all did. And Um, David Putnam and I
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: went into his office and we told him the story
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: about Carolin doing the man and we didn't even finish
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: the story and he said, you got a million dollars,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: do anything you want to do as long as Caroline
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: is involved. So UM, the Duelists ended up being the project,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: and so we win the con Film Festival with it.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: Ever make you ever get paid on that? We got
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: some small producers feed it never got released although we
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: won the con Film Festival. It was David Picker at
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: Finance when we won. We brought it back to show
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: him at the studio at Paramount on Merrows. He had
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: been fired that weekend and Michael Eiser and Barry Dilla
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: took over the studio. They came from ABC TV and
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: they watched five minutes of the movie with us. We
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: were all in the screening room so proud, Oh my god,
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: that cod We're gonna be these guys. We're gonna rape
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: these guys for our next movie, you know, ovitually thinking
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: of twelve pickured deal. They stopped the movie after ten
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: minutes and got up and said, listen, we come from television.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: We don't really like this kind of stuff. Um, we're
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: not gonna put it out. And that was it never
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: got to put up. But what played Boston one week?
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: Um so they could get it on paid, you think. Um.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: But anyway, so I go into this restaurant called the
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: Mulan Dejan south of France. It's where all the big
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: shots are. Clint Eastwood's in there, and uh, Anthony, could
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: I not think of his name? Anthony Quinn, James Coburn,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: we're all there. Days you could smoke poveratti Boba strives
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: in and we've just won the festival where like you know,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: and um, I'm looking around. Everybody's smoking cigarettes and their
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: knees are bouncing up and down. They're looking around the room.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: Nobody's looking really at their table. And I thinking to myself,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: and I'm at this time, I'm now doing way too
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: much cocaine and everything and drinking too much, and and
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: I look around. I'm a young kid, and I said,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm becoming one of them. My knee
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: is gonna start bouncing and sweating and boom. And I
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: started to really think about it, and into the room
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: walked this elderly white head man in a white suit,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: and this hush came over the room and James Cockburn
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: jumped up and hugged him, and Anthony Quinn and people
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: waiting in line to hug him. And I said, that's
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: who I want to be. I want to be that calm,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: the you know, pool in the middle of the storm.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: Who is this guy? And they told me he owned
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: the place and he was a chef. And I waited
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: till um to everybody left, I said, I take a
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: cab home, and I went over to him. He was
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: alone with that he was having to drink with someone,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: and I told him I wanted to be his grasshopper.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: But this I was pretty fucked up at this point,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: and the grass in the Kung Fu had There was
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: a TV show and David was the grasshopper for this
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: wise man. So I said, I didn't realize he didn't
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: speak English. Wise, I want to be a grasshopper. What
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: is this grasshopper? So I explained to I just wanted
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: to be around them. And he said that you cook,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: and I said no. He said, well, if you learned
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: to cook, I'll let you work in the kitchen one day.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: And he gave me the names of some cooking schools
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: and I left and I went to the cooking schools really,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: which Marcella Hanson in Bologna and um Charlie's in Bangkok
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: at the Oriental. Those are the two names he wrote down.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: And then I came back. The next year. I was
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: very lucky. I had a moving in the festival. Maybe
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: the next twelve or thirteen years in a row. So
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: I come back. I showed up at the restaurant. Okay,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: I'm here. I went to the schools and he had
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: no idea who I was at all, and they said, oh,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I'm leaving for Bangkok right after the festival,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: and I said, can I go with you? And he
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: said yes. And I was with George Griff who actually
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: knew him. So I said, George, come with me, so
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: he'll deal with me. And we went to Bangkok and
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: stayed with him. And that started, UM, this really close
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: relationship where I was his grasshopper for the next twenty years. UM,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: take his jacket off, put it on, moved the chair out,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: and I loved it. I mean, I just love that.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: And UM, at one point he said to me, I said,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: what can I do for you? You? I can't imagine
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: my life without you. And you said, give my give
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: my profession some dignity. Um. You know, in Europe they
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: treat us like we deserve to be treated. In America,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: it's and I had gotten to know all the chefs
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: because I was his groupie. They all ad they no
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: one knew who I was. They just knew that I
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: was this guy who pulled his chair out and paid
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: the bills and did everything. So I knew I got
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: to meet all the guys wolf Gang Nobu because wherever
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: Verge was, they were all congregated, so like Chuck Berry
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: was in town for the rock and Rollers. And when
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: they Wolfgang asked me to come over to Spago, and uh,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: I had told him about Mr Vige asking me to,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: you know, try and do something maybe change in ninetamics.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: Nobody was making any money. Nobody had two restaurants. Um,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: this is there was nobody with two restaurants. Wolf Gang
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: maybe made a hundred thousand, that was probably the biggest
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: the country. And he uh, it was the first year
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: he was doing his festival at Universal, so he had
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: all the chefs in town. And I went over to
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: Spago lunchtime wasn't opening. There were like a Norman rockwall
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: painting of you know, Paul Prude home, Alice Waters um
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: no Bood Daniel and a big banner in the back
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: that just said help. So I decided I sort of
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: owed it to Mr Verge and that I had the
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: skills that I knew how to do. So what did
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: you start to do? Well? At first? I thought about it,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: and UM, I realized I did some studying. I looked
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: at other art forms that UM that came to prominence.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: UM golf was was one because McCormick had written a
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: book about how he took it from Yeah. He talked
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: about Arnold Palmer being his first client, driving overnight from
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: tournament to tournament, barely getting gas money, and then he
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: got ABC wide World of Sports Jim McKay to broadcast
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: the tournament. Once he got broadcast everything he started happening
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: fast and now on a Palmer owned the golf courses.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: So I went to the guys and I at the
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: second meeting, I sent them all the book and then
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: I said, listen, we authorized me to if I can
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: find a broadcast partner, will you authorize me to give
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: up your services for three or four years for free
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: because if you get on TV, we win, game said
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: match it's over. And I was doing everything pro bono.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: So I just wanted to get out of there, and
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: I got the Food Network. Helped to get the Food
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Network on the air. The big star, of course, was Emerald,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: because Emerald was willing. He was the only one who
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: was willing to treat it as a different profession. He
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: went to tutoring school. He he had a videographer's work
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: with him. Um, we developed BAM, we developed a personality
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: for him. It was fit the medium. Um. He was
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: the only one willing to do and everybody else wanted
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: to be who they were and do their cooking. They
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: didn't see it as an entertainment form. Emerald got it eventually.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: Emerald was the biggest start and then it ended. Why
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: did it end? What the Food TV? The TV Food
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: Network ended not Emerald. They made a decision and I
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: guess in some way rightfully so although it was difficult
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: for the chefs to take that um it was too
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: organic and too real, and that they wanted to move
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: in more towards reality television. And they brought in a
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: new lady to run the network, UM who was completely
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: the felt the people who started a network, Reece and
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: his wife were very vocal about how they hated chefs,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: like vehemently talked about it. I thought they were like,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: you know, um, but they they made that a living.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: This new girl who came in was a TV executive
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: of who was very bizarre. UM. I remember I had this.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I think Emerald wrote about it in his book, so
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: I think I can talk about it. But I had
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: stopped managing and I did it all for free. So
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: once it'd worked over, there was a great moment. We
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: were walking that park avenue out of a cab. A
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: guy stuck his head out and said bam, and I
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: third to em and I said, I'm out right. So uh,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: he said, you gotta come down. We just got a
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: one rating, and that was our dream when we started,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: was to get a one rating. I left before they
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: got a one rating, so I go down. When I
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: get there, he's just I'm so sorry. I can't go
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: to dinner with it tonight the Neon they just named
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: the new head of the network. She's here tonight. She
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: wants me to go to dinner and she'd love to
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: talk to you. So he brought me over, introduced me.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: He went to tape the show, and she was very complimentary.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: I said, listen, can I tell you what I want
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: to talk to Amaron about the night? It's true, you know,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell him. He's really going to make a decision. Um,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: he's got to either be a TV personality or a cook.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: He's gonna have to give up the restaurants or give
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: up the TV. I'm not going to re up his contract.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: And I said, you realize you just got one rating
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: this week? Said yeah, but that's and I said, you
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: realize you pay him two hundred dollars a show. How
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: much are you gonna raise that I can't afford to
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: give him a raise? I said, you're gonna actually tell
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: him on the day you got a one rating that
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: he has to give up his income, move his family
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: into like warehouse, um housing. Go on, So go on
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: welfare in order to do your TV shows. You are
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: out of your mind. And they go to a restaurant
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: on Madison Avenue and seventy great with the best bolonaise
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: in the world. By the way, send send something. And
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: I get a call from the major d Paulo Della
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: Pooper at about eleven thirty at night that the police
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: have just come because Emerald threw the table on some woman.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Wo He did end up having a talk show right
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: on ABC, which didn't quite work. Okay, So if we
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: pull the curtain back, the problem is this is like
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: reading a self help book. I mean read a self
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: help book and it and there's a huge business in that. Okay,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: and I remember I would go to the psychiatrist who
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: would reinforce it. The self help book may be good,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: but you're not the person who fits with that self
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: help book. Okay, so you've obviously been ultra successful. Someone
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: comes to you and says, I want to be you.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: What do you tell them or evaluate them to steer
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: them on a course so that they will be successful?
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: You know? I tell him that, UM, I wish I
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: had the power to snap my fingers and help them,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: and that I don't have any answers, but I can
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: tell them some of the things that I think are important.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: And I think it's waking up earlier and going to
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: sleep later and working during the time Europe UM. I
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: think that UM Embracing failure is really important. UM. And
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: I try to then hone in onto what their specific
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: need is, but not to be scared of failure. Live
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: at your dreams. I always tell them, you are going
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: to die. You're going to die. Make the time between
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: now and you're dying really important. Do what you want
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: to do, don't do something out of fear of failure.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Lived for the the excitement of success, and if you fail,
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: that just gets you one inch closer to making it.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: And if you're if the person who's calling me is
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: trying to be a successful musician or trying to be
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: an actor, or trying to be a player, right, I
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: remind them that every rejection is one step closer to acceptance.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: And any star they talked to in any field has
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: been rejected for years before they become famous. Well, now,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: the barrier to entry and so many things is very low.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: And I certainly hear from people who believe in themselves,
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: but if you are exposed to the work, they could
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: never make it. Yeah, it's a reality. Okay, So you
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: know on some level failure is good for a certain
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: subset of the overall population. Then there's other mean, I
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: believe Bob Dylan from a dear loan landlord. It's each
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: of us has his own special gift and you know
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: that was meant to be true. And if you don't
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: underestimate me, I won't underestimate you. But you have to
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: find out what it is that you do well. When
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: I guess when I say failure, I mean on the
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: on your journey. So if you're a manager of a
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: young artist, don't be scared to do the wrong thing,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: but do something that's where I mean failure. I don't.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: That's sort of where I focus what you're basically saying,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: don't be paralyzed by the situation. If you were twenty
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: two today, do you think you would take the same path,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. I think my path was so
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: a a result of opportunities that came rather than calculated that.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you yes, but you took advantage of
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: the opportunities. Yes, when you first of all, you were
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: willing to quit the job with the probation the probation
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: department be I don't care who you are. It is
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: not easy to ingratiate oneself with famous people. It is
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: not there on guard. They've been hit up a million times.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: So not only did you have a product they wanted,
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: you obviously have the gift of gab whatever that they
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: liked him. Okay, so these are certain skills that not
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: everybody has. Well, I always had. Service was part of
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: my aim before I realized that. And in the life
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: of an artist, if you do things for him, that's big.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: So I naturally would like, you know, drive him somewhere
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: if they needed to be driven. Nobody had cars except me, um,
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: I would drive him home if they were drunk, not
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: because they were are, but because I could in the
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: back of your mind, though you thought this will bond
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: me to this person. I wouldn't say. Maybe some self
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: interest in everything you do, I think, Um, but it
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: was just my natural. It was always my natural. My
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: dad was very much like that. UM, and I think
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: I I I'm lucky enough to have some of it
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: rubbed it off. Okay, so you've obviously been let go
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: by a certain number of clients. Okay, and Murray and
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: Murray was really any Loggins and Murray? And what happened
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: with both of those how today? And Murray I never
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: knew until I read her book, which was what which
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: was really interesting. She said that they realized that they
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: needed something if they were going to make it big,
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: and they heard about me, and they knew that I
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: didn't make them sign contracts. So her and her manager
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: at the time decided they would hire me, learn everything
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: they could, get to the goal they wanted, and then
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: fire me. And that's what they did. So when she
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: did fire you decades back, you must have said, I
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: have no idea what's going on here? I didn't care.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: I was it didn't matter and what app with Kenny Loggins.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: Kenny Loggins it's um I can't actually talk about, but
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: it was personal. It was you had done something he
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: no no, he UM wanted me to do something I
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: was uncomfortable doing. And we're still great friends, okay, and
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: then you parted ways. A guy from my office I
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: think went off to management. UM. I just saw him.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: Were just how Hi up at Botle Rock, which was
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: really great. So in the time you have left, what
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: would you like to accomplish? If anything? I have no idea.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: I'm really UM. I get excited when I can use
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: my skills that I've hoped to do something that maybe matters. UM.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: So this Saturday in Maui, I put together a free
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: concert for the students. Kids came and it was to
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: support the Florida students and it was Concert for Our
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: Lives with Jack Johnson, Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson, Steven Tyler,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: Lily Miolay named Willie Kay who was amazing there and
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: I think ten students, speakers, UM and Senator Corono, Representative
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: gavern Um. The Maui News wrote a beautiful review that
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: sort of brought a tear to my eye. I felt
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: so proud. But it was last night at the mac.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: Hundred people entered the the concert an hour and a
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: half later, people whose lives had been changed permanently. That's
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: that's a review. You don't usually got left the concert.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: Never on the island of Maui, as our feeling of
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: Ohanna been stronger. Um. And that really was touching to
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: me because that's what we tried for. Now you're on Maui.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: How much of the year I lived there, But yeah,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: but we all try today nine months a year, nine
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: months a year. So what does the typical day look like?
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: It's beautiful, Um, the weather is beautiful. Um. I wake
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: up in the morning, have a cup of coffee. Um,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: where surrong most of the day. But I put on
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: a bathing So now to take a walk, so I yeah,
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: that's a my emails. Then I take a walk down
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: the beach. If there's somebody around that I know, they
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: walk with me and come back to some more emails.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: And then there's always some project that takes some time,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: whether it's Alice's new tour, I'm working with the Hollywood Vampires.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: We we sort of put that together, so we work
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: on that, think about what I'm gonna have for dinner.
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: That's usually the first I get in the jacuzzi after
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: my walk and think about dinner. This is what time
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: of day now we're at about seven o'clock. Um, some
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: poor coffee, too much coffee. Um, smoke a joiner to um,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: do my thinking, because that's that's sort of what I
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: try do for Alice and everyone, to get ahead of
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: them for a year and visualize and try and manifest
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: what I want to see and then try and create, um,
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: what I want. And then I usually go play some golf.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not good at all. What's your handicap? I'm a
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: fifteen it is probably a twenty. Now I'm not terrible,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: and I play three I know gambo, don't keep scoring,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: play five six holes and then have dinner. And we
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: have such an amazing community on Maui of um, both
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: visiting people because everybody visits, and people from my world
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: of experience who lived there. So Steven Tyler lives there,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: Mick Fleetwood lives there, Um, Sammy Hagar, Owen Wilson, Woody Harrelson,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: and they're just people on Maui and we hang and
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: they play music and backyards and we have good meals
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: and we do great stuff for the community. How how
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: often are you seeing these people if you're that's my life.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: We did seventy birthday party for Stephen Saturday night. I
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: helped put together. Um. I don't think a week doesn't
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: go by where I'm not just involved with him. We
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: have dinners and we hang out Stephen. All all of
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: them care about MAUI. Stephen just went to the Drug
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: Court for graduation unannounced, gave the whole speech which was
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: just so beautiful. Um. Mc fleetwood has a club there
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: where he plays whenever he's in town. He plays a
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: couple of nights a week. This week he had Neil
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: Finn with him. Yeah, who came and did our concert Saturday.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Hey now hey now, great song, great guy. Um. So
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: it's just it's an amazing community. You never get Island fever,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: never for a second. Ever. When did you move there?
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: Moved there? I'm in the same house. So what you
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: would say is your expertise is thinking. Probably would say
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: my uh, because there are things we didn't cover here
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: that I'm aware of. You certainly had a number of
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: publicity stunts, whether it be with stuff in London with
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper or Luther, Van and Ross and the women's
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: on these concerts, etcetera. To what degree are those stunts
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: that has a negative connotation? But I don't mean in
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: a negative way, integral to the success of these I think,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: I think really important. I think that's why I always
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: had great relationships with the artists, because I mean, let's
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: take Teddy for an example. So how do I separate
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: Teddy from Luther? How do I Teddy from Luther? How
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: do I define to why I'm at a point in
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: his career. I have every black woman in America getting
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: wet panties everyone? How do I move them to the
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: white arena? I have a black elvis? How do I
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: move them? Um? So I have you joined it to
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: sit in my hot tub? I think about, Okay, what
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: would I like to see? What would tell people out
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: there who maybe you're peeking in what we well? What
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: about if he did a concert and it was just
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: women in the audience and I can get do it
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: at a big enough level that people white women will
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: hear that there's this artist that those shows for women only.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: What the hell is going on? So I go back
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: to Teddy and I say, I think I know how
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: to get this across women only. And he looks at
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: me like I'm crazy and he can we do it?
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: And as lawyer tells us, we can't do it because
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: it's discrimination lawyers. He can't just sell to uh. And
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: I said, no, we'll sell to anybody. I work my
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: way around that. I get another lawyer's opinion. I go
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: to a record company. You can't do it, will kill
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: his career. Every man in the world burned the records. No, no,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: I'm doing it. You know this is gonna work. Um.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: And then I manifest what do I want those women
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: doing on them? Like going crazy? So I make chocolate
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: Teddy Bear lollypops up to take a lick on. But
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: that's all because I thought about it. What do I
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: want to see that day? And then manifested to be reality, um,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: which is you know, that's what I did as a manager.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: So I was never the best of making the most
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: money on that path, but I was good at thinking
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: of So how do let me Luther? So how do
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: you do that for Luther? You know, how do I
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: define where Teddy is pure sex? It's women licking lollypops,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: It's just pure unadulterated sex. Luther is romance? How do
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: I how do I do the same thing for romance?
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: What we ended up doing was in the top ten
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: markets in America. You got married by Luther on the air,
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: the the priest marriage that he sank to you on
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: the air, And how many people lined up for that?
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. But his songs became the biggest thing
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: in weddings for the next two years. And it's a
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: fine romance as opposed to sex. So it became I
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: was very proud of that. In today's god confidence world,
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: do you think you can achieve the same thing with publicity?
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: Look at I mean I this may be completely off base,
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: and I'm sorry if it is, but I thought the
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: Elevator incident with Beyonce and jay Z, I knew there
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: was gonna be two or three albums out of it.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: Now I may be wrong, but to me, that was
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: one of the great ones. Janet Jackson's top coming. Well,
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: what do you think that the thinking was? I did
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: that with Rackel. That was how I got around HBO
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: many many years before one of the one ofver straps
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: we guaranteed would sort of fall off. It wasn't the
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: first time. Um, but no, I think it's being done.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: I think you know, this guy's like Scooter Braun, who
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: are so brilliant, who just get it so good. You know,
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: Arian the Grandes tragedy was one of the brilliant management things.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: How do you turn that horrible incident into a career
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: builder and a win win for everybody? And that's what
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: a great manager does. You take the failure in the
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: horrible and you turn into something strong. And do you
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: think the acts are grateful? I think for the most part, yeah,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: I think for the most part. You know, they get
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: reputations that really aren't deserved. And I think, um, if
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: you're if if you're do an honest, good job. Um,
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: you know you see guys like irving him with acts
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: for thirty years, I'm scooed it will be with his
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: actual life. Then never let him go. Um. I was
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: with all my acts except for a couple forever. I
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: think if they see that you really, you know, not
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: just getting him a Coca Cola, But if they if
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: they perceive that they need you, you're in a pretty
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: good shape. And then if you're happy to be, if
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: your intentions are right and they feel they need you.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: You have the basis of a very strong relationship, and
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: need is a big part of it. And the difference
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: between the great managers, in my opinion, and and the
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: managers who are just there are the ones where an
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: artist perceives they need them. Yeah, yea are on a
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: ground they could have been a disaster. It was a triumph. Um.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: So and so in terms of legacy, does that concern
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: you at all? And what are you gonna do with
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: all that said? I made I say that, but I
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: have an ego like everybody else. What are you gonna
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: do with the money you have? Um? Probably spend it
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: all my one. I don't have a lot of things
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: that I I fear and one is it the I'm
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: gonna have wine left in my cellar when I die.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: If we started tonight, you know, I don't get a lot.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: I know. I know a lot of people say the
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: same thing. But if we started tonight, we couldn't work
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: our way all the way through. It's a problem. I'm
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: gonna have to live, log down and other things personal
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: irrelevant of business that you would like to do or
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: achieve that you haven't done yet. Um. I always wanted
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: to have a child in my own I have for
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: adopted a little bit past the point if you met
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: a woman of child bearing age at seventy two, would
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: you have a child? It was the right relationship. Absolutely,
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of this, And if I'm shooting bullets,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: what statistics are that most of the birth defects come
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: from older men, from men as opposed to with a
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: problem with that absolutely hesitatement. But you know, one of
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: my heroes in life is normally and he had a
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: child at eight, so as did what's his name, the
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: close to a seventy eight the Broadway actor Tony whatever is, yeah,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: from the odd couple, And uh so, anything specifically you
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: need to say before we wrap it up here, now,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: just what that's it's I live in and I'm really
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: distant from the community that I grew up in the
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: music community, and your stuff is fantastic because it keeps
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: me plugged in. So I am a huge fan that's
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: so happy to be here. I actually just so everyone knows,
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: I called him exactly. So you know, as I say,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: it's interesting because there's a lot of stuff that as
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: they say, we have the movie and there's a lot
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: of things I would have liked to have covered, but
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: we have a limited amount of time. Blonde okay, Blondie
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: and the videos. Who paid for those? Um, the record
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: company paid from Chrysalis was very supportive. Okay. So traditionally,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: as uh, someone whose name I won't mention, who ran
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: one of these record companies said, the record major label
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: model is theft. Okay, so there are certain Alan Klein
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: being a good example, he would specialize on extracting money
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: from the label. To what degree were you in your career?
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: Hardass that way? Um, not my strongest thing, but I
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: would try and get a lawyer involved who could really help,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: because beating him up for creativity stuff they cost money. Yes,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: beating him up for the big check. I used to
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: try and get a lawyer to do if I could
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: continue my fight. Okay, there's so much to talk about,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: but that's the most we're gonna talk about today. Chef
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: is so wonderful to have you here. Pleasure Okay, until
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: next time, Chef Gordon on the Bob Left Sets podcast.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: That wraps up this week's episode of the Bob Left
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: Sets podcast, recorded here at the tune In Studios in Venice, California.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Chef Gordon about
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: his roller coaster ride of a career and the music industry,
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: film and cuisine has always I welcome your feedback. Email
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: me at Bob at left sets dot com. Until next time,
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: I'm Bob left Sets. Me reason, I don't know me exactly?
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: Why must be its out of the season filling dry