Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Boks Show Why They’re #1 & Damian McKenzie’s Game-Saving Heroics

Transcript

Boks Show Why They’re #1 & Damian McKenzie’s Game-Saving Heroics · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  Every northern hemisphere team starts on Ravel.
• 0:03
  You're gonna have us take it?
• 0:04
  No, we're not.
• 0:05
  It's South Africa, head and shoulders, and then it's France,
• 0:08
  and then I think the rest of us are a long way back.
• 0:11
  They're like the all-black side from 2-11 to 2-15.
• 0:15
  Come on, JK.
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  Serious. Come on.
• 0:18
  Hi, how many Guinnesses have you had today?
• 0:20
  Are you kidding yourself?
• 0:21
  It's a different animal if you place South Africa.
• 0:23
  So it's not that hard against all blacks, but they did well.
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  The Italians are so good.
• 0:29
  The Australians are so good.
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  But what do you think about the foreigners?
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  Let's win.
• 0:41
  Well, there will be rivals for you the game another week.
• 0:44
  And when there was a red card in the game, we all went at the same time.
• 0:51
  What will Victor think?
• 0:52
  So Victor, what did you think?
• 0:54
  I don't know why you always talk about red cards.
• 0:58
  Can't we just talk about the spring box base performance of the year so far?
• 1:02
  But yeah, on the red card, I basically didn't think the outcome will be a straight red card.
• 1:11
  Not a 20-minute red card.
• 1:15
  Again, so much open for debate.
• 1:18
  I think there's probably three different options.
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  Certain people think only yellow cards, certain people think red for 20 minutes,
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  and then of course there's people that think, yeah, red card.
• 1:29
  Just for me, yes, there was a shoulder to the face.
• 1:35
  Yes, arm was stuck.
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  But is there mitigation factors?
• 1:40
  Yes, of course.
• 1:41
  I mean, the guy was tackled from behind, Ramos.
• 1:44
  He was on his knees.
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  Even Luirioch, with his tackles, his own knees were touching the ground.
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  So it wasn't that he was aiming at something.
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  He was going for a load tackle and all of a sudden, within one second, Ramos talked about a meter.
• 1:58
  So I definitely thought they were mitigating factors.
• 2:02
  I thought they could have sent it to the bunker and let them have a look at that.
• 2:08
  But a straight red was a bit harsh for me.
• 2:10
  If I want you to be the guy in the judiciary making the decision for me,
• 2:18
  I think they'll never be red.
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  I think we're going to be here.
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  Now, I think for me, it's what are the mitigating factors?
• 2:27
  I mean, this could be my ignorance, so I'll take the wrap for this.
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  But I didn't even know there was still a straight red, right?
• 2:33
  And in the moment, I think what happened was left is shoulder behind, right?
• 2:40
  So leaving your shoulder behind is dangerous.
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  But what I want to do is I want to be a little bit more technical
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  on what mitigating factors are.
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  Like, I believe, let's just say I'm the human being here, right?
• 2:54
  If you bend that much and you hit someone's shoulder and head,
• 2:57
  then technically you're not right, right?
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  If you're there, you're a bit more risk.
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  But most of the players are aiming for that because they want to hit the ball.
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  But if he's like that and the player falls, surely this guy's made the effort, right?
• 3:10
  Now, I believe on the weekend, it should have been a yellow card
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  and then a red 20 minutes get replaced because that's what we're getting used to.
• 3:19
  Was there any mallocinit?
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  I don't think so. He got his body right down. He's a big man.
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  So for me, it's just, it's all the confusion.
• 3:27
  It's really difficult.
• 3:28
  Like, we posted something on rivals and I shared it on my, on my insta.
• 3:35
  I've had 300 comments, completely, completely split, right?
• 3:40
  Some saying, what are you doing?
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  You're up at JK to those glasses, yours work.
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  But my opinion was we need to understand what the mitigating factors are, right?
• 3:51
  And what Victor's saying, and I'll go to you now, Trimby,
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  what Victor's saying is the opposition needs was on the ground.
• 3:59
  The tackling come right down and he had, had he, had he cocked his arm yet?
• 4:03
  No. So for me, it's the confusion of what mitigating factors are.
• 4:08
  Well, I'm the same. I actually, I'm the same. I'd forgotten that, that proper long-term red card
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  kind of was still an existence because it was outlined before that, that's only for,
• 4:20
  you know, basically assaulting someone, punching someone.
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  I would argue that's kind of what Ludwig Eger did. It is effectively an assault.
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  The high thing, no problem with you guys, you're rational around that because he can't get
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  any lower, but that's kind of irrelevant. Once he talks the arm, then I think they're saying,
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  well, then you don't get any mitigation anymore because he, he's talked the arm.
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  It's always illegal is the language they use. I don't know if that's, that's right or wrong,
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  but that, that tackle looked horrific. I thought it looked really bad. And I think it's the type of one
• 4:53
  that we need to discourage strongly. And I don't, I don't think it's unreasonable that that got
• 4:59
  what, whatever, more than 20 minutes anyway, a proper red card, all fashioned proper red card.
• 5:06
  Can I just jump in here, mate? Because you and I are in the States, right? And it's so fan-centric.
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  Now, I don't disagree with you. I think it was dangerous. I think what we're getting used to is
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  yellow card, go off. They take a bit of time looking at it and then red card, someone else comes on.
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  Right? Because the fans are paying a whole lot of money. And I'll agree with Victor. I thought the
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  spring, I thought it was, I thought it was great, great rugby over the weekend actually. So,
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  you know, there was some great games, exciting games. It was a really good game of rugby.
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  The fans have paid to see 15 against 15. Right? And so what if that had been a blowout? It wasn't
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  because the springs box are so good now. But for me, it's like we're, we're getting used to yellow,
• 5:51
  then upgraded to red. Just do that. Send them off. And then the team, I can go right out, no
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  mitigating factors. And then we can at least replace them. And the thing about the red card is the
• 6:02
  reason why we're getting rid of the long red card is because it ruins the game. But that red card,
• 6:07
  it didn't ruin the game. The game loosened up. The game became a different type of game, but it
• 6:12
  fundamentally did not ruin the game. So, to the spectators, still got their money's worth on that occasion?
• 6:18
  Victor, tell us how good South Africa we're.
• 6:23
  Yeah, I must say, let's look past the red card. I think it was just fantastic. I mean, I look at
• 6:31
  this team and I think they're gone, surprised me more. They're gone to better. And then they give
• 6:35
  a performance like this. I really believe this was a better performance than the one we've
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  saw in Wellington in all blacks. I mean, other guys came out in that second half. I mean, Malcolm
• 6:48
  Mark is just so unbelievable at the moment. And Jasper Vises standing up, such a fine,
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  moving to 15th morning coming on. Yes, there was a few mistakes. They're probably not the best
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  we've seen, Tasha, but still at the right time coming through and just dominating. And I actually
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  thought that scrum, the second scrum, we got that big scrum, I think 30 minutes into the game,
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  that just changed the game. All of a sudden, South Africa knew that the French can't turn up
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  particularly to them. And then they started controlling the collisions as well and both game over,
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  but what a game by South Africa. I agree. I thought it was huge. I thought, I think the rest of the
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  world we're looking all and just going dreading the opportunity to play South Africa. Up until the
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  weekend, I thought, I think maybe similar to you guys, I thought it, South Africa in France,
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  and then the rest of us, it's South Africa, head and shoulders, and then it's France. And then I
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  think the rest of us are a long way back. It's just South Africa are just incredible. That was a
• 7:53
  statement performance of Zombie Louisville. Speak, speak for yourself, Trimby. You can speak for yourself.
• 7:59
  You're one of us. You're one of us, Dave. No, we're not. We're not at all. I agree with the quality.
• 8:06
  I thought the quality, and look, last week, I was pretty critical of the ref in Chicago, but I
• 8:11
  thought the ref were reading over the weekend was really good from an aspect to good point of view.
• 8:16
  I only saw the highlights of the Italian game and the highlights of the Irish game, but the other
• 8:23
  games I saw all the way through and I thought they were, you know, so the refs, when they get it right,
• 8:29
  our game's pretty, pretty damn good. And I thought to South Africa and French game lived up to what
• 8:34
  we thought would be and I don't disagree. I think, you know, the spring box and number one at the
• 8:39
  moment and, you know, they're like the all black side from 211 to 215, you know, they just
• 8:46
  keep getting better and better and better. So yeah, can't take anything away from the moment.
• 8:51
  Would you think of the all black's performance, J.K.? Oh, I was really happy for a couple of
• 8:56
  reasons. I think that we are starting to blood some of these young guys and I do believe you've got
• 9:03
  to be resilient. I thought our first half was really dominant. Then the Scottish came out in the
• 9:08
  second half when we're very, very good. Started with a cup of eras in the second half. But what I
• 9:12
  like was the composure when it was 17 all. And I think that if you're going to win a grand slam,
• 9:19
  you have to have a game like that where it's where you're under the pump. You know, Damien McKenzie
• 9:25
  was outstanding, you know, that that 5020, that little 6020 or whatever it's called was unbelievable.
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  Got us down there and then that miracle try. It was like unbelievable. But I was really happy
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  for our locks, Victor, you know, I think Josh Lord was outstanding. You know, he's he's come through,
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  he's been around a little while, but he's had a couple of injuries. I thought I thought Fabian,
• 9:48
  you know, I saw footwork from Fabian on the weekend, you know, which means that this kid's really
• 9:52
  working hard on this game. Last week, and he reminded me a little bit of Brody Ritalic. So I think
• 10:00
  our discipline let us down a wee bit Ricardo. So three yellow cards, we got away with it. Trimby,
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  like you said, maybe I'm a maybe I'm too old fashioned. Maybe these red and yellow cards don't
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  really matter in the game anymore. Just make it for a bit, it's a bit of spectacle, but you know,
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  bit of discipline. We're going to have to play a whole lot better this week against England,
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  because I think they're going pretty well. But youngsters standing up happy with it. I think you're
• 10:21
  neat games like that. I think you actually write with tough games like this, pulling through,
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  I mean, there's a few big injuries with all blacks, but I must say I think we underrated the
• 10:35
  Scottish forwards. I thought they stood up really well. They were looking for that physical
• 10:43
  confrontational game. And I mean, when they got to the 22, the Scottish forwards were actually
• 10:50
  outstanding. We all know what the backline can do. And great performance by Scotland, and they
• 10:56
  really tested the old blacks. And that's what you want. You want tough games like that, pull it
• 11:01
  through, and then the confidence come through. So I thought very good performance by the old
• 11:06
  blacks, but I thought a very, very good performance by the Scottish forwards and Scottish team as well.
• 11:12
  I thought for a second, Victor, even in complimenting Scotland, you were going to compliment
• 11:16
  the South African Scots. Find a way to put yourself in the back.
• 11:21
  No, I just say it's a different animal to be placed out of Africa. So it's not that hard against
• 11:26
  all blacks, but they did well. I think Scotland have been, rather than the
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  engine over the last kind of few years, but they've never done it consistently. And I'd be really
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  interested to see if like that toughness, it's been a criticism of Edinburgh for a long time,
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  Glasgow have been there occasionally. But they've never really put back-to-back big performances
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  together for Scotland. You know, they get off to a good win at the start of the six nations,
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  then it kind of unravels a little bit. I'd be interested to see if they can back this up and
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  kind of really double down on that toughness that I agree. Victor, that's a new thing.
• 12:00
  Like being 17, they'll down to the old blacks. Every northern, like in the past, JK, every
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  northern hemisphere team starts to unravel. And then the old blacks get stronger and stronger,
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  and then they score a couple of tries towards it. That's the model we've all got used to.
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  And just seeing both ends of that, you know, Scotland showing a little bit more resilience,
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  a little bit more toughness. And then New Zealand really struggling to get that momentum in a game
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  that they would have gotten the past. It's just all, it's the new world, and it's northern hemisphere,
• 12:31
  Copeland, but southern, well, not all southern hemisphere, but the whole black is better than we used to.
• 12:36
  No, I thought, I thought Japan were good for long periods of time too though, Trimby.
• 12:41
  I thought they played some. Come on, JK. I'm serious. Come on.
• 12:46
  I can't believe I can't believe you guys come out and said you guys played badly. I thought
• 12:51
  they played pretty well. You didn't even watch the, you didn't watch the Japan game if that's
• 12:56
  what you just said. I watched, I watched the highlights. I watched 15 minutes of it. And the highlight
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  I also thought you can, thought Japan were good at times.
• 13:03
  I think Farrell's nervous. I think Farrell kind of expected, yeah, it'll be a little bit
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  rusty that first game in Chicago, but I think he thought a couple of games into it against Japan,
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  Japan would kind of be a way to get the momentum back, to feel good back, but it was a little bit
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  disjointed as well. I think he feels like, I think luckily for Ireland, Australia just are not
• 13:25
  quite there. I think they look a little bit tired. One or two guys who are kind of
• 13:31
  are unavailable injured, they're kind of having to go into their depth.
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  And I feel like.
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  What do you talk about Trimby?
• 13:48
  That makes more sense.
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  James one.
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  It turns one brother. They kicked them.
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  Normal.
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  The place is still padding. What a win. What a win.
• 14:01
  Jacob, I think that teams and he can sort of, you know, Japan,
• 14:07
  I think that was probably the performance of the weekend. The Italians were outstanding.
• 14:13
  I mean, they struggle in their six nations, comes out and Beato,
• 14:17
  Australian side, everyone was thinking what's on the comeback trail, but I'm worried that
• 14:22
  Australia was pulling away again. I think Ireland, in that first off, wouldn't have been happy,
• 14:29
  made a few changes and I think that changes probably so, we need to be in that number 10 jersey.
• 14:36
  I think the biggest risk for you two years, you don't know what you're going to get with Australia.
• 14:41
  Now I know we all got a bit of criticism about riding them off against the Lions and then what
• 14:46
  we saw was a really huge improvement, but then they seem to be going backwards again.
• 14:51
  But the biggest risk is you don't know what you're going to get on the weekend.
• 14:55
  Apparently, Wolf Skeleton's out, which is a massive loss for them, right?
• 14:59
  Yeah, he did his ankle again playing for Lara Shell.
• 15:03
  So, you know, I mean that the Southern hemisphere is sort of really, probably a head on the
• 15:10
  scorecard at the moment, Trimley, you know, you guys are sort of just lagging a little bit behind.
• 15:17
  Fortunately, Italy came to your rescue with a big game on this weekend, England versus the All Blacks.
• 15:23
  So, we'll go to the unbiased people first. We'll leave you to last JK.
• 15:28
  What are your things going to happen at Twickenham? Because it's not a great place to lose JK as it
• 15:32
  for the All Blacks. So, I know, you know, let's, did you never lose at Twickenham?
• 15:39
  Not that I can remember, Ricardo.
• 15:42
  Yeah, I was working for the team when they lost a 93 and it still hurts.
• 15:47
  So, um, that's the tour you got me dropped on and you and Sean Fitzpatrick had me dropped
• 15:56
  from the team. Yeah, I'm over it though. I'm not still not better at it. I don't worry about it.
• 16:01
  Probably worse to lose against England than to Ireland. So, um, yeah, it's going to be a tough
• 16:07
  game. I think England's actually playing really good rugby at the moment.
• 16:11
  I think, uh, from the full games that the All Blacks need to win to get the grand slam,
• 16:18
  this is definitely going to be the toughest one. Um, I think they know how they want to win,
• 16:24
  how they want to play. Um, I'd like to actually watch the guy that they played at 8 this weekend.
• 16:30
  Got the long surname after he was outstanding. I don't know if they'll keep him
• 16:35
  against the All Blacks, but he was really outstanding. And, um, yeah, they've got some dip there.
• 16:40
  I've got options at 10. Uh, we'll be interesting to see who they pick at 10 as well.
• 16:46
  Will they go with Fin Smith? Will they go, um, back to, uh, what's his name again?
• 16:54
  George Ford. Um, but, um, no, no, George Ford. Um, but I, I hope they just speak with Fin Smith.
• 17:01
  I just think he offers them more to me. Can you come in and, and just explain, um, how you'll
• 17:07
  be supporting the English as a Northern hemisphere team? Uh, I think we're all on the same page
• 17:11
  whenever it comes to, um, England. I certainly not be supporting our Northern hemisphere, uh, brothers
• 17:19
  that took in them immediately. I'll switch across and become an All Blacks fan, um, just like
• 17:25
  everybody else, every other rugby fan in the world that didn't come from England. Uh, I feel,
• 17:30
  I kind of feel like New Zealand are just like quite close to clicking though. Like there's a lot
• 17:35
  of good stuff, a lot of really good rugby and they've, it feels like they've, they've found their
• 17:39
  identity, uh, you know, going back to what we were talking about JK. It feels like they're,
• 17:45
  they're playing with with, there's some really nice moments, but they haven't been quite as
• 17:50
  clinical. They get to 17 nail up and then you kind of just feel like they're going to kick on.
• 17:53
  They then, and they, they kind of take their foot off the gas a little bit. Um, so they,
• 17:58
  the style of rugby they're playing. If you look at the word Scotland word, like they Scotland
• 18:02
  give away four penalties on the points. It felt like the down as a bite of brick, if they score
• 18:07
  there, maybe it will kick on and it could be a completely different game. And it feels like if
• 18:11
  they up the piece and taking them through that, um, that multi-phase, they could stretch them.
• 18:17
  You never know. It'll just be whatever tempo is set. A fourth week gets into that kicking
• 18:20
  game. It'll set a different tempo that won't work for the All Blacks. They have to find a way to
• 18:24
  shift this, this English team around and threaten them. Yeah, I agree. I think that, um,
• 18:29
  there's been some really good stuff. There's been some, uh, some of the young boys stepping up,
• 18:33
  I think, for me, um, Bortwex brought, I think a DNA back to the English side level who talk
• 18:40
  about how South Africa play. And we've seen Russy change that a wee bit to have a bit more of a
• 18:45
  balance. Um, we know how Ireland have paid. They're probably struggling a wee bit. Um, I call it
• 18:51
  painting by numbers, you know, they get so organised, you can't get the ball off them. That's
• 18:55
  gone away a wee bit. We're the same. I think you've seen sparkles of, of, of how we want to play.
• 19:01
  And when we do, it's really great. And I think England have found their DNA. And so it is a
• 19:06
  competition of two DNAs. We need to do, um, we need to run them around. We need to, you know,
• 19:12
  we need to make sure that we're running them from right to left. But to do that, you need to get
• 19:16
  your air account down. And you also need to be really disciplined. Um, and when you do need to
• 19:21
  kick it, it needs to be really effective so you can create that pressure. So for me, it's, uh,
• 19:26
  it's the Grand Slam. I grew up, it's the Grand Slam. In the making, no disrespect to whales,
• 19:31
  but if we can get through this one, um, you know, it's the massive one. I think Ireland, um,
• 19:38
  you know, if we can get through this one, it's wicking them. Wicking them is always hard to play.
• 19:41
  You know, jokes aside, Ricardo, it's a massive crowd. You know, um, it's a great atmosphere.
• 19:47
  It's a great stadium to play it. So for me, I'm just really excited about it. I think this once
• 19:52
  again, some really great rugby coming up this weekend. I don't think you can call it a Grand Slam
• 19:56
  if you don't play France, uh, JK. Yeah, I'll probably, that's probably because you live in Ireland
• 20:02
  and we live in New Zealand. You know, it's a Grand Slam brother. Nice try, but it's a Grand Slam.
• 20:09
  All right. You're so generous. You're so generous. You want to win a Grand Slam?
• 20:13
  Nice try, but no, it's a Grand Slam. Of course, it's a Grand Slam. This goes way back in our history.
• 20:18
  The four France even got into the six nations, man. We're doing Grand Slam. When you guys ignored
• 20:23
  them for a hundred years, remember that? I was like, I said, I forgot to turn Australia and VG.
• 20:30
  I think going home, I'm calling a Grand Slam. How many Guinnesses have you had today? You're
• 20:36
  kidding yourself. Can you explain that painting behind you, JK? We've had about as many
• 20:43
  questions about that as we have about the red card. Did you do that? I don't have any rugby.
• 20:48
  I don't have any rugby memorabilia in my house. And there's a beautiful woman artist here in
• 20:55
  Travisa. And so my wife commissioned off a photo for her to paint a rugby photo, but it was
• 21:03
  important that it didn't look like me. The photo was of me, but and then she also painted a beautiful
• 21:11
  one of my lounds, which I'll show you next week, just of this beautiful, elegant lady standing there.
• 21:15
  So yeah, it's sort of only rugby thing I've got in my house.
• 21:20
  See, for all those jerseys that you show, that's the other time.
• 21:22
  I know, that's an office. That's the other part of the house. That's no one goes in there.
• 21:28
  That's still in the house. They're all in boxes.
• 21:31
  They're all in boxes. And I never really never really did anything with them. And then once a
• 21:38
  game, my wife, when I came home once had taken them out and put them into that stand. So yeah.
• 21:44
  So your wife got a picture of of you playing rugby and asked an artist to draw that, but not make it
• 21:52
  look like you. Can you make this look like Victor Martfield?
• 21:56
  Steve, give it some here. Thank you.
• 22:03
  Of course, the two world cups.
• 22:07
  Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Finally, in your house, Victor, do you ever shrine to those
• 22:12
  world cups? I've got a few trophies. So I just moved out to my old house, all four, all three
• 22:21
  super rugby titles, little trophies with me, one little world cup. But yeah, I moved out.
• 22:27
  I'm still redoing my bar area. Once that is up, I'll I'll show you the nice trophies there
• 22:34
  in the house. I'm not hiding them. Okay, did you win a world cup? Oh, you didn't win. You did
• 22:39
  win one. Yeah, you guys, why you're at it? Victor, why don't you remind us that South Africa wasn't
• 22:46
  there? Because that's what you normally do. But we'll take the other one. That's the only reason.
• 22:52
  That's probably the only reason why you won one. Trimby, can you just sit out of this conversation?
• 22:59
  I'm at your world cup. Don't count. Okay, well, the island at that 87 world cup,
• 23:06
  did they make this thing me? We'll leave the excuses for this week and we'll look forward to some
• 23:12
  excuses next week after I could round the rugby. Thanks very much. We'll err on competition and get a
• 23:20
  new modem for Victor so we can get his internet working. That's right. Next week for another week.