Latest / The Magic Guys / 20 Questions Magicians Argue About! #214

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20 Questions Magicians Argue About! #214 · The Magic Guys

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They're guys. They do magic. They are the magic guys.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 214. That's it, 214 of the Magic Guys.
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To my left, we have Nick Kay. Hi, I'm Nick Kay, and to my right, I have...
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I'm Josh Norbedo! And we are your fellow magicians today, bringing you the goodness,
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where we share our experience as professional magicians, talk about shenanigans
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and sometimes have wonderful guests,
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which Doug has a wonderful guest, which he is not here for with us live because
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he's out having some fun with Bizarro, the magic genius that he is out in Vegas.
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He's living the vegas life doug is he he's he knows all the who's who and where
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all the parties are and the secret tours and this guy's we better have some
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crazy hookups when absolutely man like.
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It's like vegas could not be more excited to have doug and
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the moment everyone knew he was going there everyone was just like let us
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know so we can do cool stuff and so he's out there going to
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museums that are invite only and hanging out with copperfield
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and going to secret rooms that bizarro has
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designed and so i we should
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probably go down a week early when we go to vegas to do magic
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live that's what we should probably do and just go doug show
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us around vegas baby but move of course whatever shenanigans
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we get up to we'll fill you guys in as we
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go along but today you guys are
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joining us for a little bit of a chat which is super cool thank you
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for joining us friends it's good to see we have jesse we have gutbuster mike
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and making waves that's a new one i haven't seen you before welcome to the show
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friend and of course tim asking them questions and my good
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friend scotty hey who says i am looking
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forward to this one so are we man we actually had a good laugh about it and
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we're actually want to kick the episode off by we received a couple of speak
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pipes which we absolutely love getting from you guys so please make that a habit
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we love it we like helping you guys and we love hearing from you so who's the
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first person who sent us the speak pipe today, Josh?
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Yeah. So the first one is from our good friend who you got to meet at the assembly,
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who we talked about briefly too. Mr.
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Gregory Lee sent us a speak pipe and let's see what he's been up to.
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Hi, this is Gregory. Although I'm from Australia, grew up in Brisbane,
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I spent the last 30 years living in the United States.
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And I just realized coming back here that doing magic with the polymer bills
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uses a bit of trouble, just because they don't bend easily.
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I'm just wondering what kind of magic you do with those kind of polymer bills.
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Like would you do extreme burn? I heard there are issues with the different
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size of the notes and the windows that we have in the bills.
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And what about things like bill to lemon, sign bill to lemon?
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Would you do that kind of thing?
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Or is it possible to do that with Australian builds?
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I'm just curious what other tricks you'd do with our currency.
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Thanks. Great question. I'll answer quick because I only have a little bit of
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info and then Nick can take it away because he regularly customizes and does magic with notes.
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But basically, in my experience, Build
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to Lemon is fantastic because the builds don't
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get destroyed like paper money and well
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done nick that was a good one and our the amazing
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nigel at the theater magic does build a lemon with
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borrowed notes every single show and the great thing
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is all you have to do is wipe them off and you're good to
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go so that's all my knowledge i don't personally
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do any build changes and stuff like in my working roving sets so i'm gonna hand
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it over to nick for the rest of the goods yeah look i there's a video that i
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posted recently where i was sent a video from an old friend of mine from high
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school whose child messaged saying,
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I like your magic. Can you please do a trick with a bill?
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And in that, I have an original piece of magic which I created.
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I call it splitting the bill.
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And you're right. Folding bills is not great with our currency.
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That's just why I thought I want to do a bill change in which you can see the
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entirety of the bill happening. Like it happens without it being folded a bunch of times.
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It's not to say it can't be done. If anyone has seen the.
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And it's a variation of what Richard Sanders does with a particular folded bill
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where he shakes it and it changes at the fingertips.
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Simon Coronel has a version of that that is beautiful. Absolutely stunning.
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Yeah, that is amazing. I haven't seen that for ages. Yeah. So he'll do it with a 5 to a 50.
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Now, when he does it, it's folded very specifically and he quite literally will
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iron with a hot iron, press it.
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So the folds are absolutely perfect with the bill. So borrowing a bill,
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that option isn't great.
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Using an existing bill, you can probably iron it into your appropriate size.
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Also keep in mind that you can roll a bill up.
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You can roll it up into a, I mean, my brain went somewhere I shouldn't have,
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but now the point is that you can do that exact same roll up and insert that into certain things.
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Our good friend Brendan Dooley does it in candy bars and so forth.
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So I think that as far as what kind of effects you can do with that,
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look at a bill to an impossible location.
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Look at possibly even ways that you can manipulate the bill.
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One of the things that is a great convincer is obviously the serial number.
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Now, we're very big on the notion that you can't sign a bill in this country.
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So one of the things that I think is a great thing to do is that if you take
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a piece of acetate, like a clear,
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There's a better word for it than acetate. What's the word I'm thinking of?
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Magic. I don't know. Okay, we'll call it a transparency.
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You can get these from your, our office works, probably the American office max.
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And it's basically like a clear sheet that would normally put on projectors
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and so forth. You can print on those.
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So you can actually print something that's palmable.
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And then what you can do is you can fold that bill up and then put that transparency
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on top of the bill. Right.
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In a corner that it doesn't have the serial number.
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But what you do is you then ask somebody to read as you fold it
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up you go read the serial number and write it down and do you
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actually just putting a transparency on top of the bill so
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that's a really good opportunity for you to do something of that nature where you
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can actually do like use a duplicate in an impossible item as opposed to having
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to fold it up in advance and insert it you know what i mean because then you're
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just going to do a vanish and then that can go to the impossible location because
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you've used the transparency as the convincer for that acetate was right. Thank you, Tim Askin.
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So I hope that helps you out, Greg. And of course, if you need to chat about
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it further, drop us a line or we'll talk about it in the Discord.
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Thanks so much for sending that through. We hope that helped.
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We're going to keep it moving because we have a lot of questions to get through
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today in our debate, but we do have one more speak pipe, which will fly through.
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This one came through from, it's a very, it's a sexy name. I just, I think it's Aurelian.
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Aurelian let's see what he's been up
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to this looks like a new hey guys
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thanks for what you're doing with this podcast this is
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really motivating for me i'm an amateur magician
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and uh yeah trying to get my
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first gigs and i was wondering
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if you have any tips to pitch to restaurant i just tried that this evening and
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yeah I ran into a guy who obviously had no time to speak to me so yeah I wonder
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if you have any good practice for that.
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Thanks again and yeah keep up the good work.
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Okay yeah perfect i mean i can sum that up
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pretty quickly so basically you
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just went at the wrong time like if you go in when they're busy they just you
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know they got to make money and also you only went into one so like that guy
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just could be an office like he's always trying to catch up you got to go into
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like 50 and then read the room but you did it so that's first of all,
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commendable so commendable for actually going in and doing it that's so hard
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everyone just wants to stay at home and send their little emails and hope something comes up.
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But you actually went in, which is the best thing. And they said no.
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So you know what? That's the worst that can happen. Who cares?
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But to be tactical, what you want to do is go in during their quiet time.
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So typically during the start of the week, and you want to go between their services.
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So you want to go like between when their lunch and dinner starts so that there
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is that downtime and go and have a meal there with your friend even.
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And then that way you kind of have an in because you're there enjoying their services already.
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Or, you know, if you do want to email them, at least have a meal there and then
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email them to compliment them. Like, hey, we had a meal there. It was so great.
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You know, the da-da-da was amazing.
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By the way, I'm a local magician. I'd love to come down and just introduce myself.
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When is a good time that I could just pop in?
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Like something like that would be a good lead in.
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Anyway, I think we need to press on with our questions. But was there anything
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that you wanted to add into that, Nick?
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You know what? Because we're in this debating mindset right now,
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here's where I kind of feel about when people ask about, I want to do more gigs.
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My mentality is this. Are you good?
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Are you good? because people are so quick to be like, I want to do my promo.
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I want to this and that. And they polish themselves up. And then when they do
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the gig, they crash and burn.
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And the reason I say that is that do your diligence on making sure that you
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know how to perform and that you know how to handle a heckler and you know how
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to navigate a restaurant gig.
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It's so important that you're not distracting from people who are at the menu.
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If they're looking at a menu and they're about to order, leave them alone. Let him order.
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If anything, have you finished ordering yet? Great. Please put your order through
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because I'm dying to show you guys some magic.
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Your job is to help make them do their, make their money.
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So just, it says those little things that like, I'm sure you can do magic and
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restaurant drink seem cool,
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but understand that like you are part of an ecosystem to help them when they're
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busy and to help, help them make money and to get a table to buy an extra round
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of drinks when they wouldn't ordinarily.
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When you go to a table and you see, you finish a trick, you go,
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Oh, I see you guys are empty. Let me get somebody around to take another drink order.
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And then you send somebody across to get a drink order and just try to do
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everything you can to do that so it's not just about like going there and doing
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magic and i say that with love because people are
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so quick to go i want gigs then they do the gigs and
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then not only do they do it poorly they do it to the point where that restaurant
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owner's like i'm never gonna book a magician again so coming from a different
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angle but equally important yeah now aurelian don't let Nick Skeiwoff because he's, you know,
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coming from a different viewpoint.
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What you're saying is you didn't even get the time to show the guy.
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So I think a restaurant is a great place for someone who's learned their magic
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and now needs to learn how to work to sort of start, but just keep going.
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There is a playlist. There is a video on my, on my personal YouTube channel
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and just send me a message on Instagram if you want.
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And I sort of walk through it a little bit longer. It's a
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private video that i made that i send to magicians when
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they ask me about restaurants all right oh and
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gregory lee's in the chat glad you made it my friend all
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right all right we uh there's no chance we're getting
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through 20 questions now just seeing how we that's okay whatever we don't finish
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we'll do it nick took his you know breath with those answers so um in the chat
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how vote what numbered question you think we're going to get to by an hour because
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we're going to try and get through all of them.
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I'm guessing five. That's what I'm guessing.
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I'm going to rant. I've been drinking. No, I'm kidding. Okay, so these are,
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20 questions that magicians argue about, they're kind of an A and B answer.
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Like you have to choose one thing or the other thing for most of the questions.
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So if you're playing along live, which you should be, put your answer in the chat as well.
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You don't have to say why your answer. You can just put what your answer is
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or you can give context. We'll see how we go.
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Yeah. Or if you're driving, just scream at a traffic. That's fine.
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Share your opinion. That's what today's about. Uh, that's right. Nick, are you ready?
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I'm ready. Question number one. Then let's begin.
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Oh, that was a bit loud. All right. That's a really good one.
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I like that one. Thanks. Question number one.
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Is magic an art form or just entertainment? And the subtext,
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is magic a true art that deserves the same respect as music or painting,
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or are we just performing tricks for a crowd's applause? Ooh.
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Yeah. Now, I would have kept saying it's an art until it said that last bit.
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Or are we just trying to get a crowd's applause?
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God damn it. Well, we, yeah. Now, look. Now, there's 20 questions.
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So, like, we don't have to.
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Yeah. Look, I wish it was acknowledged as an art form because there are so many
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people in our country that can get these things called art grants in which the
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government goes, Oh, you want to write a play because you went to VCE and you
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did a thingamajig and you studied drama?
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Here's 10 grand. go do a play and they go and do a play about someone getting
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their period and no one buys tickets to it and it's not entertaining and it
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doesn't change anyone's world it's just this self-loathing piece of crap but
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they got 10 grand worth of money from from the government right plus,
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that i think is i guess we can call it art but i guess we can also call it bad art.
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I think that if magic was nourished in the same way we could make art I think
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magic can be art Scotty P will tell you it can be art but,
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It's more entertainment than anything. I'm going to say.
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Yeah, like what I would, would you rather be called like a great entertainer
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or would you rather be called a great artist?
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I think I would prefer to be called a great entertainer, which is why I'm going to do that.
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I think so too. And by definition, Australia doesn't classify magic as an art technically.
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So. Correct. Great. All right. Question number two.
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Style versus substance what matters more would you rather be unforgettable or technically,
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flawless that's a good one damn unforgettable okay can we just can we just uh
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confirm unforgettable in a good way yeah so like you rock the stage you know
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you you have a great character and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah,
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or you're that book that everyone refers to because you have like the most solid,
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flawless techniques ever,
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you know, or like you're at every convention because you do the most,
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the world's best retention vanishes, you know?
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Yeah. People in the chat are saying unforgettable, but I don't know.
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Man, it's interesting. Like we'd all like to be both in everything we talk about,
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but we've got to, aside, okay? So I think that like.
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Being unforgettable. Okay. Here's where it's key. I would prefer to be unforgettable.
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And the reason for that is that like everyone can perform someone else's material, right?
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Some can do that better than others. Everyone can go out and sing sweet Caroline by Neil Dime.
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Hold that thought because there is another question that will be more pertinent
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to what you're saying right now. Right.
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So hold on to that. Cause that's going to be really key in like two questions time. Yeah.
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I would rather be, because here's the thing, I've sat, I mean,
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we just did the assembly.
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I've sat up with a guy who have the most amazing second deals I've ever seen.
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Yeah. But, okay, but. So that's what we're saying. Like, would you either be
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the best technician or the best, like, showman?
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Best showman. That's what we're saying. Best showman. Best showman.
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That's what I'm trying to say.
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Okay. And that seems to be unanimous in the chat. Scotty P saying unfigurably
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flawless, which is impossible.
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Only our girlfriends can be unforgettably flawless, so that's all.
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All right, let's move on.
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Question number three. Oh, boy. Comedy versus serious magic. Who wins?
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Is it better to make them laugh or leave them speechless?
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Okay.
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Look, I'm going to share something that was said to me when I first started doing magic.
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Scotty Painter says comedy. I appreciate that. Now, here's the thing.
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When I first started doing magic, I billed myself as a comedy magician and a
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friend of mine pulled me aside and he says, if you're going to be a comedy magician,
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you're supposed to be bad at both of them. And you're good at both of them.
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Yes. And you're good at both of them and you're ruining it for the rest of us.
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And I went, okay, bro, I'll change my title. So I changed it to professional mind blower.
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Now I like comedy.
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I think that some people who do comedy magic don't understand comedy also, right?
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I believe that you could be funny, but you could do something that blows someone's mind.
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I would always prefer to be yourself. If you are funny by nature, comedy will happen.
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If you try to force comedy and tell people, I'm going to be a comedy magician.
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I'm like, bro, you ain't funny. Okay. You're not funny.
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That's hard to happen, right? now but
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who wins like the funniest person
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is performing and then shin lim
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is performing okay so here we go all right
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shin lim not funny arcy win not
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funny well arzy win is situationally very funny he's not situation not a comedy
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magician thank you situationally i don't consider myself like a comedian or
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that i can write a joke or write i can go and do like a set on kill Tony for one minute.
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I reckon I would totally like crap the bed if that was the case,
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but you put me in a room full of people or a bunch of hecklers.
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I'm going to destroy. I'm going to get a laugh every 10 seconds. No problem.
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Situationally. Yes. But does that make you a comedy magician?
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Nay. I don't believe it does.
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I, and got past the mic makes a good point. Funny equals money.
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Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so if I can interject here, we're not,
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by the way, saying one is better than the other.
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We're just being made to decide, like, in this debate, which would be better. It's a would you rather.
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Yeah. And what I will say is in comedy, like comedians, the ones that rise to
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the top, like there is room for many top comedians because people can go and
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see all their different flavors.
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Like I can watch a comedian tonight. and I can happily go and watch another
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comedian tomorrow night.
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But the general public probably isn't going to go watch a magic show and then
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go watch another magic show the next night necessarily.
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However, the thing with comedy is, I don't know the real brain analysis here,
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but when you laugh, most of the time you actually forget.
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Your brain doesn't lock the actual stuff that happens into your brain when you
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laugh. You just remember that you laughed.
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So like, I'll leave an hour special when I went and saw Andrew Schultz laughed my ass off.
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I got home. I couldn't recite, like I could only recite like two jokes to my
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partner because I don't remember what the hell happened, except I remember it was really funny.
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However, if I watch an insane, like when we watched at magic live,
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that insane dove act. Yeah.
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We remember every frigging detail. So there's also something weird where serious
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magic will, in a way, be remembered easier.
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Whereas comedy actually doesn't let you retain the actual content as much rather
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than just like remember that you had all these endorphins let out.
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I think you make a great point.
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And I think that there's, depending on your character, one might take precedence.
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But if we have to make a decision in order to move on to the
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next question i'm going to die on this hill i'm a
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magician before i'm a comedian i'm a
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magician yeah before i am everything and thus the
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effect must be the priority over
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the comedy and that's why i'm going to prioritize blowing minds
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over being funny nice well what
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hill do you die on what's your what's your vibe yeah look i
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think like comedy is probably an easier way
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to make a living like in the corporate world for example because it you know
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but yeah it's tough man i would rather as an artist like be just like yeah known
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for being just doing the best magic obviously oh boy so we where did we get that.
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So that's question three. Hell yeah.
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All right. Now, wait, hey.
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Now we're going for question four. Now, this is the one I spoke to you about,
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Nick, to hold your horses on.
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Originality versus execution. Which do you value most?
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And the subtext is, is a new idea worth
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more than perfect technique i'll be
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interested to see what the chat has to say about this too okay
22:24
this is going to be a lengthier answer i think
22:26
this is like you know the starving artist versus the
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commercial success okay kind
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of debate i originality versus perfect execution yeah of of existing stuff i
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think probably to clarify so you buy all the stuff off penguin you do it really
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well you put little fun twists on it great or someone like morton who,
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creates and builds and makes every single thing
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that he uses in his shows including the bag and everything right well i mean
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like i mean just as the chat is blowing up you know we have tim askin saying
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that originality is king we have scotty painter says the same thing same thing
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with tim askin he's like you know the storytelling is probably a little more
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important but i'm gonna to go. Okay. So here's the thing, right? Here's the thing.
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When we say originality, let's just be very clear.
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I, let's take one effect like the ambitious card. Okay. Pretty staple.
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I don't, I think that everyone should have an ambitious card,
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but I think they should do it the way they do it.
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Now, I still think you can do the ambitious card originally is what I mean by that.
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Because the way you do it is different to the way you learned it when you bought
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the Daryl DVDs and so forth. So I'll be very clear about that.
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I also think that you can go and learn a coins across and do it the way that
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everyone does in the gregory wilson dvd set which i don't remember right now
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off the cuff or whatever it is.
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Or you can do the coins across because i think the premise
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even though it's not original you can do
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it original so with that
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being said i think you should be original because you
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will never be that magician who goes to a convention and lectures
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doing other people's stuff it's just
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stupid like what like it it doesn't
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make sense to me but if you have something that you
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are inspired by and you go he does
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it this way what i did was i changed it and here's
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how i do it now and they go that's revolutionary i never
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thought about doing that you know yeah i
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think look i i agree so i don't think there's too much of
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a debate like i think originality is what
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we notice more like we always talk
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about the mid like oh have you seen this
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guy do this routine we don't
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we don't go like oh have you seen this guy do
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daryl's 27th phase of
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ambitious yeah you know i think that is
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i think that's it by the way that's only
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that's only question four yeah all
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right happy to keep moving because originally wins all right yeah question number
25:07
five scripted or improvised what always what makes a stronger act and the subtext
25:14
is do tight scripts kill spontaneity or do they save the show.
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I think tight, tight scripts. Yeah. You know what? Tight scripts.
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Like if you have to choose. Yeah. What's.
25:29
Yeah. Scripts are going to be more reliable, but I will say just to play the
25:34
advocate here from listening to many a podcast lately.
25:40
And I've been watching a lot of, a lot of magician, magicians.
25:44
Comedians have been having this girl on called Lisa Gilroy, and she's like an improv queen.
25:49
And watching her riff on an hour
25:52
long podcast is the funniest thing ever
25:55
right and i've been able to watch like
25:58
every interview she's done because every time
26:00
it's improv and riffing and it's new every time
26:03
so i'm not like hearing her say how she
26:07
got started her upbringing what her break was like i'm not
26:10
hearing the same thing and even though
26:12
it's a different context i have found improv
26:15
to be really fun so although i
26:18
would never do it for a whole show because that would be insane as
26:22
nick knows like i do it specifically in like
26:25
portions of my show but it is very fun
26:28
and i think it's pretty easy to get very bored
26:31
of a tight scripted show like
26:35
yourself as the performer but let's see what the
26:37
let's see what the chat's saying gut bustle
26:41
mike have a solid script and be present great dom saying
26:44
uh scripted and then learn to present to your environment scotty
26:48
saying agility riff off a script that's good
26:52
scripted and be ready to go off script i
26:55
mean that that is ideal but here we're being kind of
26:57
made like you have to improvise everything or
27:00
everything be scripted scripting with a
27:03
room for unknowns okay so script
27:07
so we can be in the moment okay look i i
27:10
jazz i jazz hard i jazz hard and.
27:13
The thing is i have scripts for what i say but i
27:16
also there's certain things in my script that i choose not.
27:19
To say because i've read the room i could
27:22
there's a joke i can say stuff i don't and
27:25
sometimes i want to say the joke but somebody's interrupted in
27:28
some capacity whether they've spoken over me or a waitress has come in whatever.
27:32
It might be and the opportunity to say that line is now gone the opportunity
27:35
is gone now i do like to jazz which i do a lot in fact i came up with this awesome
27:43
trick at easter which i'll share with you guys a bit later now here's the thing,
27:48
I remember teaching a young junior at Institute of Magic. I was helping him write their show.
27:53
And this kid turns to me and says, oh, I'm just going to jazz the way you do.
27:58
And this was what I think is some of the best advice I gave the kid.
28:01
And I said, you have not been bad long enough to be this good, is what I said.
28:09
And that's what it takes. there is no way
28:12
joe rogan from day one was getting up on
28:15
mics and performing for three people in a beat down
28:18
comedy room and slaying no way
28:21
i guarantee you every single hero of yours they all started playing their bands
28:28
in a garage okay they all started doing this stand-up comedy at open mics where
28:34
nobody laughed and nobody listened you've got to be bad for a really long time
28:38
to be that good in order to rift.
28:40
I guarantee that the young lady was saying a moment ago.
28:43
Lisa Gilroy. I guarantee Lisa Gilroy that you mentioned a moment ago,
28:48
she would have bombed for ages before being as good as she is.
28:53
I guarantee it. So, if you're gonna jazz, learn to play, baby.
29:00
I think in an ideal world, like, roving magic would be where all the jazzing happens,
29:06
and then stage if you've got a paid audience like you've scripted that you have
29:11
scripted that out okay let's keep going I'll be freestyling on stage no yeah,
29:18
Every one of these questions could be its own episode, by the way. 100%.
29:22
Maybe we just get Dylan to make 20 shorts out of this because like every, okay.
29:28
Oh my God. All right. This gets even more anxiety building with every question. All right.
29:33
Question number six. I need a proper.
29:37
Question number six.
29:40
Gimmicks or slights? Which is more powerful?
29:44
Is it cheating or just using the
29:47
best tool for the job i kind
29:51
of want to kill just about 30 seconds to see
29:54
what people think because as a
29:57
young magician you were like no gimmicks no
30:00
gimmicks never use a gimmick and then you get all purist i'm a purist and i'm
30:05
a great magician and my Technic nominal How dare you give me marked cards How
30:11
dare they No I will take some queen slippers That have been in the drawer since 1984 Yes,
30:19
Then you get older And you're like oh my god I can just put it in the pack And
30:25
steal it from the back This extractor gimmick Oh my god where have you been
30:29
all my life The deck will make the card vanish by itself,
30:33
Right So,
30:36
Oh, okay.
30:39
So, Scotty's saying slights, right? Of course, he's young. What a nerd.
30:44
Tim's saying whatever tool gets the job done. Dwayne Andrews saying it's all cheating, which I like.
30:50
That's correct. Jesse Champlin, I love my slights, but the invisible deck beats
30:54
me every day. Boy, you should report that.
30:58
And Dwayne Andrew, again, Bizarro wrote a book called Cheat, Damn It.
31:04
Gutbuster mike slights are less embarrassing when they
31:07
fail okay so that might be where my brain
31:10
goes i i enjoy so
31:13
the reason why i do a lot of flourishing magic i shoot cards
31:16
out and whatever and all that stuff is if
31:20
someone figures out how i did it
31:23
they're still impressed so i guess that's a
31:26
weird debate like if you get caught and it's because the thing
31:29
just has an extra thing that opens up then you're
31:32
kind of like god damn it but if they catch you and it's
31:35
because you're able to do this impressive thing like should
31:38
that matter it shouldn't matter but for some reason some of
31:41
the things i do do matter where i'd rather learn a hard way to do it without
31:46
needing an extra thing oh god this is going to be the last question i know okay
31:51
no but to begin with okay yeah you want to learn slice to begin with but then
31:55
eventually you you want to create magic that It looks so clean and so impossible.
32:01
And the type of thing where the gentleman had that, that the line in the middle
32:06
of the table with the white, the white line, and then he would put the card through the middle.
32:10
It would change colors, you know, and that's obviously a gimmick. Okay. But, but.
32:17
You could do a top change and change the color, or you could do a diamond change, change the color.
32:21
What looks more magical, damn it, your slice or a flap gimmick,
32:27
you know what I mean, on a card?
32:28
Like, I believe that when gimmicks are involved, there is a knowledge which
32:34
other people don't have and can't figure out.
32:37
And thus you eliminate this move of palming or whatever like technique you would
32:43
ordinarily do to achieve the effect allowing the gimmick to do the work for you and thus producing,
32:50
really mind-blowing clean super awesome magic come
32:54
at me yeah it's tough man like slides are
32:57
cool because then like you can do
33:01
all the stuff like i think why we like collecting moves is
33:04
like anytime we can do that thing like we
33:07
don't need that gimmick but you're right it's whatever's going
33:10
to look the most magical and if you can bring
33:12
it in like a ninja and yeah it not raise.
33:16
Alarm bells yeah but but okay
33:19
look you got it you got a gun to your head you can
33:22
either do the best friggin slights in the
33:25
world for the rest of your life or you can do no slights but
33:28
you get access to the best gimmicks in the world to
33:31
you know look the best magic what
33:34
are you picking bro i'm you can't touch another
33:38
you know loop again
33:41
in your life what what what what
33:44
are you picking i think i i
33:47
think i might pick the slides but really what would
33:50
you pick you pick the gimmicks like you know how
33:53
much sleight of hand i do bro like my like i am
33:57
the knuckle buster like as far as especially with coin
33:59
magic and with my sleeving techniques and everything else that i
34:02
do like slides are my jam but if
34:05
i had gimmicks that would do the
34:09
kind of work for me where it
34:12
i'm not i'm not doing the actual slides
34:15
but the gimmicks are doing the work for me and it just looks crazy crazy
34:18
clean that i believe would
34:21
elevate the magic and i think that's what's most
34:24
important to me so i'm gonna just for the point of indifference i'm gonna say give
34:27
me gimmicks okay yeah very good let's press on that was a good one number seven
34:33
cards coins or some other everyday object what's king are audience more in wait
34:42
are audiences more impressed by a signed card.
34:45
Or a borrowed Sharpie. I think they kind of got this wrong.
34:49
It's basically saying like if you had to pick just one object to be able to perform with forever.
34:56
Oh, yeah.
34:58
Coins is my favorite discipline in magic, I'll say that much,
35:00
because that's where a lot of the sleight of hand comes from,
35:04
concealments, and whatever else.
35:07
So when you learn a great knowledge in coins, you then apply what you learn
35:12
from that to whatever you need to.
35:15
But cards is so versatile and such a larger prop that can be used in a higher capacity.
35:24
Whereas if i was doing coins in a in a darker location it
35:28
would be difficult the only the only thing
35:31
i have to say bad about cards is that everyone everyone
35:35
does cards so if you're going to do cards you got to
35:38
really be like up there tim mason's
35:41
got the right opinion safety pins you just
35:47
go to punk rock shows and you go to everyone's jackets and be like i'm gonna
35:53
link there was a time where I was really considering
35:57
only doing roving gigs with
36:00
everything but playing cards and uh
36:04
and I could definitely do it now but you
36:08
know cards are just so fun as well and people you know there are
36:11
believe it or not audiences that like seeing card
36:14
magic like before you've shown it and so
36:17
I was watching watching one of Gregory Wilson's lectures and
36:20
and obviously I was just trying to emulate him he said the thing i've been doing
36:25
lately is doing strolling gigs with no playing cards but then he brings out
36:31
a double blank deck and teaches an ambitious card with a signed blank card and
36:36
it is a card trick but it's not with playing cards but.
36:41
But then you just kind of feel like you've left one of your big tools at home for this job.
36:49
Yeah, it's tough. Anyway, but look, people are, obviously the default is,
36:52
yeah, you can do an hour roving gig with just cards. But, um.
36:57
I mean, did they tell Picasso no brush? Did they tell Magician no cards?
37:03
Yeah. but you know if i was like really to put time in it an audience might get a lot more out of,
37:12
everyday objects as in like you rock up and
37:15
you have to borrow this stuff from people and do
37:18
magic with the things their ring a
37:21
coin an australian coin if they have it whatever they
37:25
have that is kind of more memorable but
37:29
then you might have the case where they don't
37:32
believe that you've given their ring back and they
37:35
they call security and okay okay
37:39
so okay so let's just to wrap
37:42
up this discussion let's let's make a choice we have cards coins and borrowed
37:46
objects okay let's set it down to these three you've got to commit to one i
37:51
love cards so much but i think i would go for everyday objects i i think i would
37:57
have to do that because like what you said cards are just,
38:01
i've seen that one or you know i think i'd have to go with everyday objects,
38:06
i'm gonna go with my heart on this one and my heart.
38:13
I'm gonna go with my heart and my heart says if i had to give up every single discipline in magic,
38:20
and commit to one for the rest of my days until i join all my heroes in heaven,
38:26
I'm going to go with coins and I'm going to say that out of respect for my good
38:31
friend Curtis Cam who just passed away that's why I'm going to say coins.
38:36
That was a good answer thank you that was a good answer yeah rest in peace Curtis Cam yeah.
38:43
We lose too many heroes god damn it I know I miss Doug Doug yeah well he's still
38:49
alive oh good he'll well I don't know he's with Bizarro who knows what the hell
38:54
they're getting up to All right.
38:56
Question number eight. Look, we might be a little biased.
38:59
All right. Question number eight. Mentalism versus sleight of hand.
39:03
What hits harder? What hits harder?
39:06
Do people want to be amazed or believe that you read their mind?
39:15
That's tough. They're like two different schools. Well, yeah,
39:19
they're polar opposites in a sense.
39:20
And for me, mentalism is a 30-second routine being crammed into 30 minutes,
39:25
you know, like, you know, and I'm like, right.
39:29
And I, I,
39:32
Oh, it's nice to hit him in the brain really hard. You know what I mean?
39:35
Like when you do psychological things, like, okay. So what I mean is like generally
39:39
this, like if I do a type of thing where it's like, just look at a card,
39:41
you've got one in your mind and then someone chooses it.
39:44
And to me, that's a mentalism effect. As in like, there's, there's a mental,
39:47
there's a mental notion towards that. Yeah.
39:50
Eliminate that from your card root, from your card repertoire.
39:53
Oh, that's upsetting. You know, that's really upsetting to get rid of like the
39:57
mental aspects that I use in my,
40:01
like heavily my card stuff so like that's really upsetting for me but would
40:05
i trade it well i trade it hang on let me finish would i trade it for the hyper visual card stuff i do.
40:13
No we there we go we're going hyper visual yeah yeah yeah yeah i mean if you
40:23
are guaranteed that people really do believe that you have read their mind,
40:29
that's pretty special.
40:31
Like if you engineered your own way and didn't tell anyone your methods and
40:37
you really could every time knock it out of the park and everyone believes you can read their mind,
40:45
then maybe we can talk. But yeah.
40:49
Until then, it's, yeah, it's probably sleight of hand.
40:54
But then even Jeff Hobson in his lecture when he was in Brisbane,
40:59
he explained like, yeah, he has dabbled in mentalism stuff before,
41:03
but it wasn't until he saw, he worked with Colin Cloud that he really understood
41:10
the power that mentalism has on an audience.
41:13
Even though, you know, he doesn't do any of that in his work,
41:17
but he like understands and respects it
41:20
but to know what hits harder
41:23
is really messed up like when people
41:26
say like who their favorite magicians are it's
41:30
either someone really crazy visual like
41:33
dynamo or something or they say derren brown like yeah
41:37
it's really comes down to taste but it
41:40
hits you in the feels i mean like sean taylor
41:43
performed at the assembly and scotty painter who was there said that
41:46
like sean taylor makes me consider mentalism for the answer and
41:49
rightly so it's very strong mark brown said
41:52
i've had more people give me
41:55
specific memories from a mentalism routine than any card trick is seen so there's
42:00
a lot of truth in that right now as what what's stronger slight over mentalism
42:08
mentalism done well obviously we've seen it done very poorly,
42:11
just as we've seen slides done poorly,
42:13
but mentalism hits you in a way that slides don't.
42:17
However, I can't walk into a environment where I've been booked to entertain
42:26
and the DJ is playing at 140 decibels.
42:30
Which is the same volume as a private jet and expect my words,
42:36
which you 100% need in order to do your mentalism to overcome me being able
42:43
to perform silently and perform strong visual magic.
42:48
And that's why I'm going to say slights for the win.
42:52
Yeah. Yeah. All right. I agree. Slights for the win.
42:56
Look, there's also technically another category, which would be comedy mentalism,
43:00
but we will not go there today. You've got to use your words.
43:04
The fact still stands. you got to use your words absolutely yeah
43:07
okay yeah and everyone has sort of slightly different
43:10
opinions in here as well all right all right let's see we can get through all
43:16
these number nine all right props okay i'll explain this one props on stage
43:22
is it magical or messy are big boxes and silk scarves charming or outdated what's.
43:31
You know what yeah they are when i
43:34
yeah when i when i read this the
43:36
other when i first was looking into this question
43:39
it was more like is having big tech
43:43
and led and flashy stuff in your
43:46
show distracting or good
43:49
to have man i don't know like when
43:52
you see a single stand like it's just
43:55
like almost like a bar stool maybe even just like one one
43:59
leg and then like a flat top and a hat and then someone
44:02
comes out and they just start doing split fans and
44:05
dropping things and you just see that level of
44:08
like beauty from that simplicity on
44:11
stage it's i think it's like oh oh
44:14
gorgeous then you see some kid performers and they bring out road cases you
44:21
know it's like all over the place and so yeah you know and they just operate
44:24
out of the road case do the trick throw it back in and it's kind of great because
44:27
it does fill the stage so it does have its benefits,
44:32
yeah but what do i prefer how do i prefer to work i prefer a clean stage personally.
44:41
Yeah i think so too i think but you know you work with what you have if you're
44:45
a one-man show and you have to have your different routines set up in different
44:48
parts of the theater stage go do it I think this is not really a big dividing question here,
44:54
but it is nice to fill the stage as well.
44:57
It's a judgment call. When you see someone like our good friend Jackson Aces
45:00
did a really beautiful trick on a morning TV show recently. Shout out to Jackson Aces.
45:05
And he's got this innocuous looking box that he puts a woman and cuts her up.
45:10
Beautiful illusion. But to anyone else, it's like.
45:14
That's a trick like it's a trick box it's a something you know what i mean but
45:16
if you just rock up and you're you're doing this and you got your two hands
45:20
and like these are my weapons and you're just going and you're producing coins
45:23
and that sort of thing i will say jackson handled that,
45:28
exact thing you're saying pretty well like he did he says yeah before he does
45:34
it for those who haven't seen it he does a big illusion breakaway box kind of
45:40
thing illusion with a girl in it But he says,
45:43
normally I do sleight of hand, and I always thought these big illusion boxes
45:47
were so cheesy, but then I got one. So here it is. And he does it.
45:51
He like explains the obvious. It was well done, Jackson.
45:55
So you're right. He didn't. Yeah. And he could have just come out and done something
46:00
amazing with the host that wasn't a big.
46:04
What and carrying that big prop in
46:07
like why would you what is the
46:10
thought process to take that big chunk of hunk thing in just
46:13
to do that when you could have anyway but now
46:16
you got the clip so that's great okay let's
46:19
keep going okay uh but great great great points number 10 oh boy DIY versus
46:29
store-bought magic which deserves more respect is building your own prop more
46:35
noble or just inefficient,
46:38
I'm going to go with DIY.
46:42
And the reason I'm going to go with DIY is because there is more grounds for
46:48
originality and we both agreed earlier that originality wins so.
46:54
Let's keep going then. That was perfect. Boom. Mic drop.
46:59
Yeah. Number 11. I wish we had Doug here for this one. Street,
47:02
stage, or close-up, which is the truer test?
47:06
Where does real skill shine? In your hands, on a mic, or in the wild?
47:12
I'm going to say street. I think it is street.
47:17
The reason I say that, you know, well, if I may explain,
47:22
the reason I say street is that you could
47:25
have the audacity to get on stage and say you must pay
47:27
me ten thousand dollars to get on your stage even though
47:30
there's only going to be 50 people at your event and they go
47:33
oh cool that's what you think you're worth great and then you put the
47:36
same cat on a street when you
47:39
put your hat out the world tells you what
47:42
you're worth and that is one of the most
47:45
craziest awakenings of any performer can have
47:47
trying to had a show is is
47:51
is insane and being on street is one of the most interesting experiences you
47:56
can have and you know you're you're in their world it is i think that is the
48:02
most difficult performing situation to be in and if you can do that yep it is
48:07
like yeah it is extremely humbling it is the most difficult,
48:11
if you survive on street you can survive anywhere i think
48:14
it's unanimous everyone in the chat is saying the street it
48:17
can be really humbling it's where people are most honest they'll call you out
48:20
yeah if you want to test a magician take him to the street and you will find
48:25
out i'll close on this in the street you get good or you go hungry there's your
48:30
options nice and obviously nick is very, very good.
48:37
What a fat joke, you son of a bitch.
48:42
You know, we do what we can. Carmody. Number 12.
48:48
Let's see if we can rapid-fy these ones. Or we can leave some.
48:51
No, let's try and get through them all. Or just save them.
48:54
Or we might save them. Number 12.
48:58
Stage names versus real names. Which is better for branding?
49:03
Does the amazing Nigel still work or does Authenticity win now?
49:09
I think stage name. What do you have to choose? I have a stage name because
49:14
my very long Greek name doesn't play very well. It's a little bit too ethnic.
49:20
Some people get on stage and it's like, I am.
49:26
Angelo Tredopoulos. Now try to put that on a billboard. You'd need two billboards.
49:32
That's a very big name. Okay, so. Yeah.
49:36
But you know another really long, can't even spell it name that people know
49:42
exactly how to say? Arnold Schwarzenegger.
49:44
Absolutely. And the fact that you knew that means there are,
49:49
but obviously there are just some, you.
49:53
What am I trying to say? Look, there's totally, I totally support that.
49:59
There are some outliers is what I'm saying.
50:00
But I think, yeah, let's keep going. I think stage name, yes.
50:04
I wish I had the foresight when I was younger to come up with something that's
50:10
easier for people to remember.
50:12
But, you know, it doesn't.
50:15
Yeah. Is it Norbido or Nibito? Exactly.
50:19
Norbido. How do you say it? How do you say it?
50:23
Yeah, I know. Norbido. Norbido. What even is that? What's that background?
50:29
I don't know. Poop. It's Italian.
50:31
Okay. All right. Silent acts versus talking acts.
50:35
Who makes a bigger impact is the question. Who makes a bigger impact?
50:39
Is music-driven mystery more powerful than patter and personality?
50:44
That's a tough one. That's a tough one. Silent acts, you can travel the whole
50:48
world that doesn't even speak English.
50:50
Or yes god damn it okay if i if i could okay i'll answer it this way if i could
50:59
trade my voice and somehow have a magical power that would allow me to perform silently with the same,
51:06
veracity and the same you know gusto and the same giving me the same experience
51:11
but keep my mouth shut bro i would i would literally go mute tomorrow if it
51:16
meant that i could produce the same amount of awesomeness silently,
51:21
I would give my voice tomorrow and you would never hear me speak again and I
51:25
would be doing this sort of thing on a podcast that would be cool.
51:31
Yeah I'd love to watch a Charlie Chaplin podcast with Teller.
51:39
Okay yeah I think silent would be my
51:42
choice as well if I could choose both great
51:46
acts and yeah absolutely okay
51:49
classic effects classic effects versus
51:53
new plots where's the future should we keep refining the
51:55
old stuff or push for something no one's seen before
51:58
classics are classics for a
52:01
reason boom yeah yeah they are
52:04
classics for a reason bro that's a tough place to be
52:07
yeah what's a new you can't really yeah
52:10
you can't really choose like yes seeing a show where
52:13
it's all new plots is very great but
52:17
we all come from first learning the
52:20
classics anyway so you
52:23
can't cancel one out yeah let's say
52:26
i'm gonna had to yeah yeah no you're not wrong and i'm gonna say this that i'm
52:32
not gonna say like new plots go away but if i'm gonna say what's more important
52:38
i believe in history and i believe you need to know where you came from to know where you're going.
52:44
And that's why you should be learning classic plots first.
52:49
Excellent. Let's keep going. Magic for magicians versus laypeople.
52:54
Who are we really performing for?
52:56
Are you trying to fool the crowd or earn respect backstage?
53:01
We've both seen what happens when we perform to just magicians in a mixed magician. Yeah.
53:09
What are you more proud of, though, if you did a show at the Theatre of Magic,
53:14
for example, if you did a show at the Theatre of Magic and the audience was like,
53:19
mediocre applause but then the magicians could
53:22
not stop raving about you or the magicians
53:26
all saw you do stuff they all know how it works but the audience was fried and
53:30
applauded what well i did what are you going to sleep feeling better about well
53:35
i did perform at the theater of magic and i did slay both audiences so well
53:39
that's the nick k experience but is yeah but here here's,
53:45
here's one thing i will say i i open actually open
53:48
my lecture with this and i say to people stop trying to impress magicians they're
53:52
not going to hire you focus on doing whatever you can to impress the lay people
53:57
they're the ones that are going to be hiring you and so if i'm going to be preaching
54:00
that i think i need to say perform for the audience not for the magicians.
54:07
Yeah it's tricky because
54:11
yeah and
54:14
then the the other side of that is magic
54:18
lovers come to see magic show but the people who
54:21
love magic the most are the magicians
54:24
like that's why we became magicians because we love
54:27
magic and we love being fooled so it is kind
54:30
of tricky and a good example is so
54:33
steve cohen chamber magic in new
54:36
york right it's been running for 25 years now
54:40
yeah and the reason i went
54:43
to see it is because growing up
54:46
i had three separate magicians in
54:50
different instances rave on about how good his show was and that made me want
54:55
to go fly for my 30th birthday to see his show in new york and then he fried
55:00
the pants off me and then i told like i mean i'm still telling people about
55:05
how good the show is so there is something just to throw it in there about,
55:10
being able to fool magicians as well because they will rave about your show
55:15
the most good or bad like but they are going to tell the most people about your show so,
55:22
I personally wouldn't fully write them off, but also fuck magicians.
55:31
Okay. That's all I'm saying.
55:36
That's all I'm saying. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. Okay. But let me,
55:40
let me, can we just finish on this?
55:42
Just, just just for a no. Do you think there are some routines that you,
55:45
that have been either created or, or whatever else, or that maybe you come up with? Yes. Yes.
55:51
That were made for magicians. Only for magicians and you wouldn't show it to lay people. Yes or no?
55:55
Yes. Okay. There are definitely card plots that magicians find way more interesting than lay people. Yeah.
56:06
100%. Okay. So look, there's only five questions left. How about we just...
56:11
Let's go on over a second.
56:12
Yeah. But can we just like 30 second them? I'll do my best. Okay.
56:19
Does magic belong on TikTok? talk is is meaning
56:23
is visual bite-sized magic the future
56:26
or the death of wonder
56:29
it's not the future but
56:33
it has a place yes it does
56:36
have a place it has nowhere near the same feeling
56:39
that magic has when you see it but it definitely
56:42
has a place yeah i think
56:45
at the very least someone it inspires inspires all
56:48
magic inspires i look at good magic and bad magic all
56:51
of it inspires and it might inspire me to write a whole routine it might
56:54
inspire my son someday to
56:57
do that you know what i mean like it's it has a
57:00
place and that's why it has a future so if we have to say if it has a place
57:05
it does have a future is it the future yeah that's the future people in the
57:10
chat good point scotty link it's a teaser for more gutbuster mike says boo tiktok
57:15
tim askin says what's the future Yeah,
57:18
look, I think it's part of our world and it needs to be.
57:21
But that leads on to the next question, which is exposing magic.
57:26
Is it a necessary evil or the ultimate betrayal?
57:29
Is education helping magic evolve or just ruining the art?
57:34
There's a very clear distinction between educating and exposing.
57:38
Very clear. Right? And it's intent. It's intent.
57:44
Education, yes. Exposure, nay.
57:48
Yeah. Because the people who expose things aren't teaching. They're just exposing
57:52
and they're doing it poorly.
57:54
Yeah. If you are teaching because that's what you believe the algorithm will
57:59
give you more views for, then shame on you.
58:02
That's what we're really saying. But if you're doing it like Doug,
58:05
because you are trying to pass on your knowledge to the next generation,
58:09
you know, send the elevator back down, help, like what does Denzel Washington say?
58:14
First you learn, then you earn, then you return. Like, then it's okay.
58:18
Okay, great. 18 live shows
58:22
versus virtual shows which offers real impact
58:25
is zoom magic a clever adaption or a
58:29
pale imitation of the real thing i think
58:31
we can agree that live shows win live
58:35
shows rule but also you have to appreciate the medium that
58:38
has come through the zoom realm was it good was it
58:41
ben steidman who was doing that phenomenal piece of magic in
58:44
that theater was it no so it was kevin it was kevin
58:47
oh and kevin yeah yeah ben did a great one yeah kevin yeah
58:50
yeah absolutely yeah a few yeah
58:53
kevin kevin blake yeah and yeah there
58:56
have been some amazing zoom shows helder gamirez i believe
58:59
did an amazing zoom show dan white made a
59:02
killing of his zoom show definitely places for it
59:05
eventually i'm sure it will become its own
59:08
proper world when you have more augmented
59:11
reality stuff normalized in society and tech catches up 100 okay 19 should you
59:20
tell oh oh should you tell people you're a magician they're saying i'm a magician
59:25
open doors or trigger eye rolls.
59:30
Yeah i tell people i'm a magician i tell people i'm a magician but don't get
59:35
me wrong like i remember one time i said i'm a magician and the guy was like
59:38
oh and then it was like oh you do do something like yeah i was polite and you
59:42
know borrowed a deck from someone did a thing
59:45
and he was like man i thought when you said magician you were like oh balloons
59:49
dickhead right yeah yeah you know that sort of thing is i wasn't expecting this
59:53
and i was like yeah well it's it's good so it's so important you represent magic
59:58
you know like if you're gonna say you're a.
1:00:07
I ain't telling people I'm a magician. Like, unless they ask what I do,
1:00:10
I'm not going around trying to make sure people know a magician just came into their cafe.
1:00:16
Like, you know, I'm not swinging around a deck of cards and stuff just so that
1:00:21
everyone knows I'm a magician. Like, I am very comfortable just being Josh,
1:00:29
talking to people, not doing magic.
1:00:31
Like, so often I'll go to parties.
1:00:34
No, I don't go to parties, what am I saying? But if I do, like on a personal
1:00:39
level, yeah, I'm not doing magic and I'm totally fine with that.
1:00:42
I will, like if someone asks, but I don't need to show people stuff to like,
1:00:48
which goes on to the next question.
1:00:50
The last one, the magician's ego, confidence or cringe? Are we bold?
1:00:59
All right. And that's the magic guys. Thanks a lot and good night, everybody.
1:01:04
Yeah. Are we bold artists or just insecure show-offs with a God complex?
1:01:09
Oh, that's, they're fired.
1:01:16
There is definitely a fine line between like, does this person have ego or they're just confident?
1:01:21
And, you know, I guess it kind of comes down to like, is your show good?
1:01:26
Because like, if your show is not good, then like you're kind of screwed.
1:01:30
And people will think it's cringe no matter what with how confident you are but,
1:01:36
i'm going to push back on that and say there could be a good show but
1:01:39
the execution can be cringe certain people can do things in a certain way that
1:01:44
makes it cringe and that's that's where the confidence needs to be equal to
1:01:49
the competence of it if you are a competent performer then you will crush but overconfidence,
1:01:59
can lead to ego and be presented as such and that's not an easy pill for any audience to swallow.
1:02:07
Agreed? Well said, my friend. Well said. And I cannot believe we made it through
1:02:12
all 20 in only an extra five minutes. Holy moly.
1:02:16
Well done, bro. Air high five.
1:02:19
Oh, wait. It would be this way. This way. Awesome. Wow, I felt that.
1:02:24
Guys, let us know if you enjoyed that. If you have any follow-up dicey questions
1:02:29
as well, send them through in the SpeakPipe, which is our voicemail system.
1:02:34
And thanks for joining us this week. I think, look, all of the words of wisdom
1:02:39
were kind of thrown out within those 20 questions.
1:02:42
So I'm going to just give Nick, you got to say just one word for the final word.
1:02:47
Like we just literally want the final word to take us out.
1:02:51
So let's play our clip and then we will see you next week with a guest.
1:02:59
Kindness.
1:03:02
Thanks for listening. It's time for us to disappear now.
1:03:07
But we'll see you again on the next episode of The Magic Guys.