Latest / The Light Medicine Podcast / Sono-Photodynamic Therapy for Cancer | Ep. 13 with Dr. Tony Jimenez

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Sono-Photodynamic Therapy for Cancer | Ep. 13 with Dr. Tony Jimenez · The Light Medicine Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: And uh I asked him, Dr.
0:01
SPEAKER_01: Wan, what is one pearl or one tip in so many years in cancer treatment and research at a big, big hospital in China that you could give me?
0:11
SPEAKER_01: And he said, Dr.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Tony, after any surgery, any ectomy, lumpectomy, mosectomy, colonectomy, any ectomy, follow it up with sonodynamic therapy.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Follow it up with sonodynamic therapy.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: We know in the conventional world, what do they follow it up with?
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Chemo and radiation, right?
0:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hello everybody, and welcome to a new episode of the Light Medicine Podcast.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Today we have Dr.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Tony Jimenez as our guest.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: He's the founder of the famous Hope for Cancer Clinics.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: He's an amazing, amazing physician and a pioneer in integrative cancer therapy and photo and sonodynamic therapy.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we are honored to have him as a guest and actually he's also a very good dear friend.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: So again, Tony, thank you very much for being with me here today.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: And let's just start as usual with you telling us a little bit about your background, who you are, what brought you into this field of photodynamic therapy.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Robert.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: It seems like uh we've known each other for so many years.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: I still remember when we met at the airport in uh Frankfurt, I believe it was in Germany.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's when the first time I had the baby, I had the photodynamic therapy equipment from Weber Medical in my hands, and it was just like the start of something beautiful because I've been doing sono and photodynamic therapy since 2002.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: And the way all this started with me is that um I was already a medical doctor in Mexico, and my dad was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and he lived in Texas, in Houston.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: So he didn't tell me when he was diagnosed.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: He went to uh the hospital there.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: We all know what hospital is in Houston, Texas for cancer, right?
2:10
SPEAKER_01: And uh he had one treatment.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: After that one treatment, he called me and he said, son, I didn't tell you, but I was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: I went to the hospital, I had a treatment, and I feel so bad.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: If this is just one treatment and I feel so bad, I don't want to continue this.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Can you help me?
2:31
SPEAKER_01: And I just took a deep breath, swallowed, and I said, Dad, I'll call you in five minutes.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: I hung up the phone, let go of my emotions, cried, then called my dad, and then I said, Let's do it.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know, Robert, I didn't know what that meant because I was in the surgical track in medicine in my career, but this shifted my world.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: It's my dad, you know.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: And so the long story short is thankfully my dad survived.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Not only did he survive, he thrived and he was cured from prostate cancer.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: And he was in his early 60s.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: So, as you know, and your listeners, the younger someone is with cancer, the more potentially aggressive it is.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: And at 61, 62 years of age, it could be a quite aggressive cancer.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: So thankfully my dad survived, and uh, and then I use uh at that time I wasn't using sonodynamic therapy yet.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: I incorporated it later on when he was uh much better just to sustain and to avoid any recurrence.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh so it was beautiful, Robert, that uh, you know, was able to help my dad overcome cancer and that shifted my world.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And then I got into the integrative oncology world.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: I traveled the world, went to your country, Germany, all over the world studying.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: And then I ran across um Dr.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Wang, U-A-N-G, in Guangzhou, China, and he was one of the first, and the Russians also to publish the work on sensitizers and what the dose should be of the of the Corey Me 6, for example, and the intensity wavelength of the sonotherapy.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: And so I started to read in Dr.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: Wan's uh work, and you know how life brings people into your world, right?
4:31
SPEAKER_01: That when you least expect it.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: So I was in a beautiful conference in Los Angeles, actually.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: It was called the Cancer Control Society Conference.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: And I was at lunch, and these three men, older men, approached me.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: One was Dr.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: Don Burke, and he was uh a Harvard doctor's uh researcher, and he was studying photodynamic therapy at Harvard.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And one thing that Dr.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: Don Burke found is the antimicrobial benefits of photodynamic therapy.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: And then there was Dr.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: Larry Clapp.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Lowry Clapp uh wrote a book, Prostate uh Health in 90 Days, and he cured his prostate cancer with sono and photodynamic therapy, mainly sonotherapy.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: And then there was a third fellow, uh Tom Cleary.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: He was a medical doctor from Ireland, and he was also like innovating.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: This was like in the late 1990s.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you were born yet, Ralph or it was in the late 1990s.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: And so these three guys were my mentors.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: We started sonophotodynamic therapy with, you know, with the equipment we had at that time.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: It's not the equipment we have now from Weber Medical, right?
5:47
SPEAKER_01: It was uh less sophisticated, less accurate, maybe, but it was still using sound and it was still using light, right?
5:57
SPEAKER_01: With the sensitizer.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: So all that to say that these three guys were my mentors, and we started in 2002 going really strong with sonophotodynamic therapy.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I want to tell you one more thing that fast tracked to many years later, about seven years ago, I think it was in, uh, I commissioned a group from Cuba.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: And you know, in Cuba they have a very good medical system.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: So Dr.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: Borroto and her team from the University of Havana came to our clinic in Cancun, and she randomly took about 174 charts of patients and she studied our therapies, make sure that the synergy of the therapies was good, the combination of the therapies, and it was excellent.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: And then I said, Dr.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Borrotto, what therapy do you believe of the many, many things we do?
6:52
SPEAKER_01: Like your dad, right?
6:53
SPEAKER_01: I've been to your dad's uh clinic there, and thus uh a multi-treatment approach.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: And so Dr.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Borotto, after two, three weeks and her team, she told me, Dr.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: Tony, the most effective therapy in your hope-for cancer toolbox is sonophotodynamic therapy.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: And um, it's hard sometimes to know, as you're aware, Robert, and your listeners, because we use so many therapies from, and that's the subject of my first book called Hope for Cancer: Seven Principles to Remote Fear and Empower Your Healing Journey.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: Those seven principles are one is non-toxic cancer therapy, and that's where sonophotodynamotherapy comes in.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: So a lot to say about this.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: It's been uh it's been quite a journey traveling the world, seeing patients.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: Now we have patients from over 70 countries and all in all the continents except Antarctica.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: We haven't had a patient from Antarctica yet, but from all the other six continents.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: And so it's been a beautiful journey in providing sonophotodynamic therapy as one of our seven key principles.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: This is that is the foundation of our treatment on toxic cancer therapies.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: In addition to that, I'm a person that what I'm going to prescribe for patients, I have to want be able to do it on myself also.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Right?
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Because there was a a poll on 1,000 oncologists in the US, Robert, and 84% of them said that they wouldn't give themselves what they give their patients.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: So as working in integrative oncology, non-toxic cancer therapies is so important, is one of our key principles.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: And everything with respect uh to sono and photodynamic therapy, non-toxic, I would give it to myself, and I do.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: You and I do a lot of this, right?
8:54
SPEAKER_01: For prevention, for prevention, because now if if your listeners, Robert, can remember something in this webinar, and don't forget it, is start being proactive about your health right now, today.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Not mañana, like we say in Mexico, which is tomorrow, but today.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: Because um, as we've seen all over the world, and in Mexico included, a health for cancer, cancer is on the rise.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Younger patients with cancer.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: We have 20-year-olds with breast cancer, with colon cancer.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: I never saw that before.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: And pancreatic cancer is another one that's just so such an increase in pancreatic cancer patients.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: So my pearl and my tip for everyone listening is start being very proactive on your health today.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: And uh there's some things that are non-negotiable, and that's good sleep, decrease chronic stress, try to eliminate as much as possible chronic stress.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: We need stress, we need acute stress to survive and thrive and excel, but the chronic stress.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: So sleep decrease or eliminate chronic stress, and nutrition is key about that, and that's a big topic.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: And then also find your joy in life.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: What is your joy in life, right?
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, laugh and find that joy, find that passion in life, and do preventive approach to uh medicine, medical wellness, and that includes using photodynamic therapy, using light and oxygen and so forth.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Because it's, I mean, we know, Robert, you've written books on this, interviewed many people, conferences with Isla and myself over 20, what, 24 years now using sonophotodynamic therapy.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: So why not do something on ourselves for prevention?
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Because as we know, sonophotodynamic therapy has beautiful properties, right?
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Antimicrobial, anti-angirogenesis, boost immune system, it's anti-cancer.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: I believe, Robert, that sonophotodynamic therapy targets circulating cancer cells.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: Circulating tumor cells.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Those are the cells that escape a primary tumor in the breast or colon or anywhere, and they're circulating in the bloodstream, and ultimately they can land somewhere.
11:26
SPEAKER_01: They can land in the bone, in the lung, in the liver, or in the brain.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: And so these are the cells that are not killed by chemo, they're not killed by radiation, they're very resistant, and I believe there's no experiment on this, but I believe from my observation that sonophotodynamic therapy can target and does target circulating tumor cell.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: So let's be proactive starting today, after this webinar, and let's take care of ourselves because we want our drive, right, Robert, to be healthy and to live a long quality of life, right?
12:03
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this was already a very good introduction.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: You already went ahead and answered a lot of my questions.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: But let's start with a little with a smaller technical question.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: You talked a lot about sonophotodynamic therapy now, and um in the past we already had a lot of yeah, or a couple of interviews here on photodynamic therapy, but I think it's the first time today we are also talking about sonodynamic therapy.
12:29
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you can explain a little bit the mechanisms or how it is similar to that and um how people can apply it in a clinical setting.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sonodynamic therapy.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: When I met Dr.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Wang, the doctor that I studied since 2002 and his publications, he's in Guangzhou, China.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: And I had the honor of having uh dinner with him uh July 2025, so not too long ago.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: And he's in his mid-80s now, maybe close to 90.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he's been an oncologist for over 50 years.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: He's a four-star general in China, of course.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: And uh I asked him, Dr.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Wan, what is one pearl or one tip in so many years in cancer treatment and research at a big, big hospital in China that you could give me?
13:19
SPEAKER_01: And he said, Dr.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: Tony, after any surgery, any ectomy, lumpectomy, mosectomy, colonectomy, anyctomy, follow it up with sonodynamic therapy.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Follow it up with sonodynamic therapy.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: We know in the conventional world, what do they follow it up with?
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Chemo and radiation, right?
13:41
SPEAKER_01: And we know that if there's any cells that are still there, which are usually still there after surgery, because a surgeon cannot see any microscopic cells.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: And as I said earlier, some cells may have already escaped the primary tumor and are circulating.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: So Dr.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: Juan Robert told me to always, after surgery, clean that area, follow it up with sonodynamic therapy, let's say in the breasts, right?
14:09
SPEAKER_01: And this is huge because 40% of our patients at hope for cancer are breast cancer patients.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: And it is obviously the most common cancer in the world.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: I am going to Japan and Hong Kong tomorrow, actually.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: And in preparing my slides, my presentation, I found out that even in Hong Kong, and you know, typically in Asia, the incidence of breast cancer is lower than in the Western world for many reasons, but I found out that in Hong Kong, it's in the top three cancers, right?
14:44
SPEAKER_01: So all that to say that um zonodynamic therapy is safe, it's effective, it uses a sensitizer as well.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: And so you're using a sensitizer.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: There's many sensitizers from chlorine E6 and ICG, curcumin, methylene blue, many, even chemotherapy.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Some chemotherapy uh agents are uh photo and sonosensitive.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: So you have your sensitizer, then you adjust your energy, the wavelengths, the intensity, and the frequency for those for that particular sensitizer.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: And those are already in the literature and in the book that you and Martin and your dad publish, you know, all the information is there specifically for each sensitizer.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: What should the sonotherapy settings be?
15:39
SPEAKER_01: And then you target that area, let's say the breast, right?
15:44
SPEAKER_01: And you do slow movements in a circular pattern.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: But what we found now is that you could stop in an area for like three, four, or five seconds and then slowly move to the next area, but very, very small adjustments, right?
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Very small movements in that area.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: So what happens is, as your listeners know, we're creating several things with sonodynamic therapy.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: First of all, it's soothing.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: The patient is it's non-invasive.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: You have to be careful when there's open wounds and things like that.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes the patients can have a little discomfort if there is sensitivity in the tumor area, especially in the breast or in the axula.
16:30
SPEAKER_01: But you decrease the time that you're doing the therapy.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: Maybe sometimes you work around it because the sound is going to travel and dispersed in a nice area.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: So in the old days, Robert, we thought that we needed to put the patients in a bathtub because sound travels in water.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: So we had the patients in a bathtub and then we would put the son of device in the tub and then do the do the therapy there.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: But of course, now with new technology and the more we know, you know, that's not necessary.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, we couldn't have 20 bathtubs in our clinic, right?
17:10
SPEAKER_01: So it became a little bit of a problem.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: So not necessary to use water in that sense.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: We do use a gel that's non-toxic, you know, non-abrasive, and hypoallergenic so that the waves can uh travel very nicely.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: And sound is energy, right?
17:29
SPEAKER_01: Sound is energy, independently of what your religious beliefs are.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: I believe that when God said, Let there be light in Genesis 1 at the beginning of the Bible, first it was the word, let there be.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: That's a sound, and then light, and then the light appeared.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: And then I've been thinking, wow, I've been using sound and light since 2002.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: We're going back to the creation.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: And the other thing is that when the egg is fertilized by the sperm, when that moment of conception, you have beautiful children.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: I have some kids of my own, but that's such a magical moment.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: When that egg is fertilized by that sperm, there's a spark of light.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: There's a spark of light.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: I believe that's the light of God.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Scientists say that that's a chemical, biochemical process, that you have zinc and there's this reaction that happens and the light occurs.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: So, all that being said, is that sonotherapy is a therapy that's here to stay.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: It's been around for many years.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: It's getting perfected more and more as the decades of time progresses.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: And with our experience, right?
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Like you have with your dad in the beautiful uh clinic that he has there in Germany and at Hofer Cancer.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: So we're forming cavitations, we're forming bubbles in that tumor with the sonotherapy, and that causes a reaction that produces.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: I believe you could get apoptosis and you could also get necrosis in the tumor because we're seeing that.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: We follow our patients with ultrasound.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: All of our patients get diagnostic ultrasound when they arrive at the clinic, and then prior to their discharge in three weeks, and then when they come back in three months.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: And we have two in-house radiologists.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: So we've seen that some of the tumors have necrosis and others don't.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so they apoptose as well.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: And this is beautiful.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: You're producing reactive oxygen species.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: It's just a beautiful process that only targets abnormal cells.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't target normal cells.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: So that's another good thing about this.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: You're not going to hurt healthy tissue.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: I think that, on the contrary, with sonotherapy, you can enhance function integrity of normal cells because sound is everywhere.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: We need sound to survive as we need light.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: So a beautiful process, Robert, using sonotherapy, a lot of experience.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: We have patients not only doing it for the three weeks that they're with us, but uh they continue this at home for an extended period of time.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: We have patients now that have been doing it for five years, six years, seven years.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: They don't do it as strictly as when they were, you know, trying to get out of the cancer situation, the tumors.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: So now they do it maybe one week every month as maintenance prevention.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: And it's a security blanket, both physically and emotionally, because the patients say, Hey, I am being proactive.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm treating this area that once had a problem, right?
20:52
SPEAKER_01: And so it's uh it's a beautiful therapy.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: Patients can travel with the ultrasound, even like on cruises, uh, they go on a cruise with their little ultrasound machine and uh the sensitizer, and it's just beautiful.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: We do know that sonotherapy also, Robert, can help other areas, other types of pathologies.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't exactly know all the mechanisms involved, but it can help uh in pain, of course.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Fatty liver, we're studying that a bit.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how this is working, but a lot of our patients that came in with grade one or grade two fatty liver, in a short time, three weeks up to three months, the fatty liver uh reverses.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we're changing their diet, we're improving their metabolism, but we also have them do sonotherapy on the liver area, right?
21:49
SPEAKER_01: Why not?
21:50
SPEAKER_01: It can hurt, and we're absorbing something quite interesting.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Maybe in the near future we could have a more solid theory on.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: How this works, but now it's just observation.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree that sonodynamic therapy is a very good, valuable asset or an additional asset.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: What you already mentioned, when people already work with photodynamic therapy, most of the sensitizers we are using can be stimulated by light, but also by sono therapy, and therefore it's like a dual approach and to make the therapy more effective.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Just for people who are not familiar with this, we're talking about therapeutic ultrasound devices, so not uh diagnostic ultrasound.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, as you already mentioned, this is also relatively simple and not no expensive technologies, even the clinical devices are not expensive.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, the beauty is also what you mentioned that there are relatively cheap home use devices, so people can take oral photo or sonosensitizers and then do the continued treatment at home.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: So we actually do the same thing in our clinic.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: We give them home use tools with light, but also with for sonodynamic therapy.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: So I think, and actually, I think you were the one who basically guided us into this direction because we were also just using photodynamic therapy in the beginning.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: But then uh I think it was you uh where we learned about sonodynamic therapy from.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: What an honor to work with you and your dad and your group, Robert.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, besides the friendship, the brotherhood, the professionalism, you know, all the years of dedication.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Because this tribe, this group, it's expanding from when we met, you know, so many years ago.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: I participate in the International Photodynamic Association Congress, and that's every two years.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: And there's about 500 of us that attend this.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Most of them are nerds.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: They're geeks that are in the lab, you know, in the University of Chicago, Harvard, Stanford, Italy, Germany, all over the world, you know, top uh researchers, kind of validating, Robert, what we have been doing and what we have been preaching.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I appreciate this group because, you know, they're working with the mice, they're working with the lab, with the petri dish and stem cell lines or cancer uh cell lines, but they lack the clinical aspect, right?
24:16
SPEAKER_01: So when I talk with these guys that are there and girls, it's like great, great, thank you for your work.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: And I told uh a professor from Portugal, I said, Professor, wow, thank you for all this information and work you do.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: This is amazing.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: And he said, No, what you do is is as or more important because you're actually applying this and helping patients, right?
24:41
SPEAKER_01: Not just in the research fields.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh, this group, the IPA International Photodynamic Association Conference, met uh they meet every two years in 2024, it was in Finland, and in 2026, 2020 last year, 2025, it was in in China and Shanghai.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: So all that to say that when patients go to your dad or they come to us or other integrative oncology clinics, they said, Oh, this is quackery, there's no science behind this.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: It's the contrary.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: So, so much science behind sonotherapy and photodynamic therapy.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: And of course, the Russians are doing great work, continue to do great work.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: In my last IPA conference in Shanghai, China, I met a lady doctor.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: She's an oncological ophthalmologist, and she uses photo and sonodynamic therapy for eye cancers, right?
25:44
SPEAKER_01: And uh has a number of publications.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: She's in St.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Petersburg, Russia.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Brilliant work that she's doing there at the i Institute, the biggest eye institute in uh in Russia.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: So, all that to say that a lot of science, a lot of history, so for your doctor, listeners, or patients, really trust this therapy.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: It's very effective, as we say, non-toxic, and it doesn't interfere.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: If the patients are doing chemo or immunotherapy or radiation, we could we could do it together, right, to for what?
26:24
SPEAKER_01: Maximize and synergize the benefits, right?
26:27
SPEAKER_01: They don't contradict each other, and also to decrease the side effects together with nutrition, together with detoxification, oxygenation.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: And as your listeners well know, you need three elements, right, for sono or photodynamic therapy.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: You need the energy source, either light or sound, you need the sensitizer, and then you need oxygen.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: And wow, you have the trifecta that makes a beautiful grouping to allow this sonophotodynamic process to excel and perform the way I see it.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: So often, Robert, in my presentations, I have a picture of myself in a hyperbaric chamber, you know, with the methylene blue in my mouth and uh the Weber watch in my wrist, right?
27:19
SPEAKER_01: So stacking therapies is so, so very important because you maximize the benefit and you decrease your time that you know you're doing all these things.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's beautiful how um we've been working together with you, your dad, and your girl for many years, and having the opportunity to be here sharing some of our experience.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that actually, because I remember from your presentations from your conferences, I think you're also very good at statistics and presenting a little bit because you have so you treated so many patients in your um clinics, and I think you're very good at yeah, putting the data together.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: So, especially for patients, tell us a little bit about your success rate.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: I know it's difficult when we talk about cancer, but maybe like a general overview of how where do you see the clinical outcomes.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's uh that's a very important topic because as your dad and and you know and we know, we're clinicians, right?
28:18
SPEAKER_01: We are treating patients.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: We don't have a big statistical department or epidemiological department, but a number of years we put together at Hope for Council what we call the research and education department.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: And this is headed, I think you met him, Dr.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: Shibrutha Chakovarty or Indian uh scientist.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: He's a double PhD, he's my chief science officer.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: So we have basically three types of main data that I want to share now.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: One is longitudinal studies.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: A longitudinal study is how long the patients survive within a set parameter of time.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: The gold standard in medicine is a three-month longitudinal study.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: So I was on a on a on a flight from somewhere to Boston, and next to me was a professor from Boston, and we talked the whole flight.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: And she told me, Dr.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Tony, one thing that hopeful cancer can do to be more credible to the conventional world is do a three-month longitudinal study.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: That means how how many patients live for three months?
29:28
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, three months?
29:30
SPEAKER_01: And that's a gold standard.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: That's not acceptable.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: So at hope for cancer, we did a one-year longitudinal study with seven types of cancers, and they're beautiful.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Um the statistics are beautiful.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: What I could do if you want, Robert, I could share this with you, like the exact percentages and numbers, so that you know you could make it available to your followers.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: So the longitudinal study was brilliant across multiple uh cancer types, and we did it for one year, not three months, which is the gold standard.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: So we compared it to the National Cancer Institute SEER data, surveillance, epidemiology, and end stage result data, which is also the gold standard.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: And the thing here is that 70% of our patients at least are stage four that have failed everything before they come to us.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: SEER data does not include those patients.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Their data is when the patient was originally diagnosed, right?
30:34
SPEAKER_01: So it's not comparing apples to apples, right?
30:37
SPEAKER_01: However, we compare this straight on, as if they're treating, you know, stage four cancer patients.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: And even with that, our data was better or the same for that one-year longitudinal study.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about melanoma, we're talking about pancreatic cancer and so forth, very aggressive cancers, ovarian cancer, breast, colon, prostate, lung.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: And so that's one data point that we have is the longitudinal studies for one year.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: The second study is quality of life.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: Because now the big thing is health span and lifespan.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: We want to have a good lifespan, but we want to live healthy, right?
31:19
SPEAKER_01: With a health span.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: And uh, Dr.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: Peter Attia wrote that book.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, what was the name of that book?
31:25
SPEAKER_01: Really brilliant book, Outlive.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Out Live.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: I read that as well.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: Right?
31:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really good book, Outlive.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: And so I think he was the first one to really bring those two terms to the forefront, health span and lifespan.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: So our our quality of life data is really compelling because we measured it across four parameters, like general feeling of well-being, cognitive function, social activity, energy, and so forth.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: And these are science, we call these scientific instruments.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: They're uh uh quality of life surveys that are validated scientifically.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: They exist, right?
32:06
SPEAKER_01: And so we use that uh for over 200 plus patients.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's not easy to get all these surveys, you know, uh for uh ongoing time for when the patient arrives, three weeks later, three months later, six months, a year later.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: So you have to, it's not easy to do this work, as I mentioned, but um, but regardless, the quality of life data was impressive.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: So good, Robert, that I asked my scientist, Gibraltar, can you check this again?
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Because uh it was 83 to 100% improvement in quality of life within the first three weeks that the patients were with us.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: That means they're eating better, they have more energy, pain is under control, the tumor has stopped uh growing, and therefore the pain is much better.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: So all these quality of life data, and that's pretty impressive because we all know that that's not true with chemotherapy, radiation, and surgery.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: It's the contrary, right?
33:14
SPEAKER_01: It's the it's totally the opposite.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: So imagine when a patient comes to us, to your dad, to us, and they're feeling terrible, quality of life, they don't have appetite.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: What is their will, their strength to to thrive, and their ability to do the therapies is reduced.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Some of these patients are better at it.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: So as you improve their quality of life, what's the first thing?
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Wow, there's hope.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: There is a possibility for me to recover.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to believe the oncologist with all the diplomas on his wall and the white coat that told me I have six months to live or a year, right?
33:53
SPEAKER_01: And so things start changing and great things happen, right?
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we call them miracles, right?
33:59
SPEAKER_01: But they happen.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: So quality of life data is very impressive.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: And then the third set of data we have is five-year survival data.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: And this is tracking patients for five years.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: By the way, Robert, you know how the politics is in this world of integrative cancer treatments that our attorneys told us not to publish the data.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: Not to publish the data because it was so compelling and so good that it might not be good for us to put this out, you know why.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: So um, but anyway, the the five-year survival data, we also did it for seven cancer types, and it's beautiful.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: For example, in pancreatic cancer.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: If you look at the National Cancer Institute or you look at the American Cancer Society website or websites anywhere in the world in Germany, you'll see that for pancreatic cancer, the five-year survival is about three to five percent, uh, as low as 2.5%, right?
35:03
SPEAKER_01: And at Hope for Cancer, we are at 35.6% five-year survival.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: And remember, this is for stage four patients that typically failed the Whipple, the most aggressive surgery.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: They failed the chemo and everything else.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: So pretty impressive.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: The same thing with colorectal cancer.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: I want to tell you a story, Robert, and your listeners, because we remember stories.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: And what this story is for the potential patients or people out there that are listening to you to always have hope.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: So this, I have many, we have many patients, of course, in stories, but this one is really impactful.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: This is a young uh lady in her uh late 30s that came to us in 2017, and she was diagnosed with a with a uh lung tumor, metastasis to the liver, and 70% of her bones.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: In Australia, they told her maybe six months if you're lucky, and get your affairs in order.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: She had a three-year-old daughter at the time.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Her husband had abandoned her and became a drug addict and went to the streets.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: So she was a single mom, now giving a death sentence, and she wanted to do everything possible to survive.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: So, Robert, in a very short amount of time, the lung tumor disappeared and all the liver metastasis disappeared.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: The bone lesions took about a year.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: It was 360 days, 359 days, less than a year for all the bones to be clear, also.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: So her name is Kate.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: She was then cancer free for one year, two years, three years, four years, and then the COVID situation happened.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: She lived in Australia, she needed to go see her mom in the UK, and she couldn't go without the COVID shock.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: She couldn't travel.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: So she got the COVID shock.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: She went to the UK, visited her mom, stayed there for about a month, went back home to Australia, and shortly thereafter, she coughed a little speck of blood, a little tiny dot of blood.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: And she texted me and said, Dr.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Tony, I don't think this and this is anything.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: What should I do?
37:29
SPEAKER_01: I said, Kate, let's do a COVID scan of the lung.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: And she did, robbered another tumor in a different location of the first one in the lung.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: This is four and a half years later, and after the COVID shot.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: So I said, Kate, we need to study the whole body.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: So we did, and we found the bones are still clear, but now again, liver metastasis.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: And then I say, Kate, we have to do an MRI of the brain just to cover everything.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: And guess what, Robert?
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Ten brain tumors.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: Ten brain tumors.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: And she had no neurological symptoms.
38:13
SPEAKER_01: She wasn't dizzy, she didn't have headaches, she didn't have double vision, poor vision, nausea, nothing.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Ten brain tumors.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: And she said, Dr.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Tony, I'm going back to your clinic in Cancun.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: And Robert, at that time, I'm like, what am I going to do now?
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Right?
38:30
SPEAKER_01: We got her past the first time.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: And now again, and now 10 brain tumors.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: So the story is Kate's fine again.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: And now it's about a year and a half since she was rediagnosed the second time.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: And she just had a scan last week and everything is clear.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I told everyone this story to understand that there always hope, there's always a possibility for you to recover.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Never give up, independently of where the cancer is.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: And this is the beauty with sono and photodynamic therapy: that it could treat the brain, it could treat the liver, it could treat the bones.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: We map the bone lesions and we highlighted them with a pen so she understands where to do the sonotherapy on the specific bones.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: And um, and of course, the liver.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: And we know some of the sensitizers cross the broad brain barrier, right, Robert?
39:33
SPEAKER_01: So then we could target the brain.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: Now, what we're doing, Robert, is we're trying, and maybe your dad has done this already, I'm not sure, but we're using sonodynamic therapy in the brain.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: Historically, it's like, no, it doesn't work.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't penetrate the hair and the skull and the and the bone and all that.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: But we're finding some interesting things so far.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're gonna be able to do that.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: So we actually do the same with brain tumors.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: We do the sonodynamic therapy approach because, as you mentioned, it's so difficult to penetrate deep, also with the light.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: So the sono will probably will probably go deeper.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: But we, as you also probably uh already saw, we now have our new like real laser helmet available now with those almost 700 lasers.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: And we just had a brain tumor patient two weeks ago and just got her report uh last uh couple of days ago.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: So just after one week of treatment uh with a new helmet, and I think we did some sono as well.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: I think almost all of the brain metastasis disappeared.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: So this is very encouraging with a new technology where we can bring significantly more energy of the light in addition to the sono into the brain.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: This might be very promising for brain tumors.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: Wow, this is interesting that uh we're living parallel experiences, right?
40:51
SPEAKER_01: And we you hear it from me and I hear it from you.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: It's like awesome, right?
40:56
SPEAKER_01: I have to get a hold of that uh blue uh helmet that you have, the light delivering systems.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: You can you can check it out next month when you meet our team in San Diego.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: They will have it there.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: So just come to the booth and give it a try for yourself.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: You will feel it.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: It's it's really powerful.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: It's completely different level compared to all the other helmets we had available before.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to hear that.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Martine shared it to me like a month or so ago, but then life got crazy.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: But uh definitely I'll check it out because like your father and you and us, we like to be in the forefront.
41:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, most of the time when I go to conferences, one of the questions is, Dr.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: Tony, what's new at Hope for Cancer?
41:36
SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
41:37
SPEAKER_01: Because we try to stay ahead of this tough field, right?
41:41
SPEAKER_01: Cancer treatments are getting you know more necessary every day.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: As we say, cancer is more difficult, people are more toxic now.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: EMF, you know, all the stresses and fears of wars and all this thing in this world, right?
41:58
SPEAKER_01: And by the way, all the listeners, and I know you probably talked about this in another webinar, that light and what Robert is saying with this new helmet device technology, it's not just for cancer.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: We're improving a lot of biological effects.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of biological effects in in the brain as well, with cognitive health, uh uh brain fog, right?
42:24
SPEAKER_01: I suppose light can also help uh tremendously in that.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm waiting.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: I would like to see if maybe my memory as I use your helmet, and you know, the younger we get, some days we start to.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're working on that.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: We already made some tests with like cognitive uh reaction and memory tests and things like that, and you can see improvements uh with a patient.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: So we are doing more research in this area right well, but it's working on focusing on memory and all those things.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Wow, beautiful, beautiful.
42:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have to try that, and I'll be your uh biggest fan of uh when my memory improves.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, thank you uh for that development and keeping up with technology and being the pioneers and leaders, right?
43:08
SPEAKER_01: Because I remember when I started Sono and Photodynamic Therapy back in 2002, we were using very rustic equipment.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh we tried uh at the beginning we were using a light device from that was used in NASA in the U.S.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: uh with the astronauts.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: Then we were using another device from uh Russia, another one from the U.S.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: But now, I don't know what is it now, Robert, the last eight, ten years with Weber Medical?
43:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, in those years, the technology has increased uh significantly with the work that your company has done.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: And uh we need that as as clinicians and practitioners, right?
43:52
SPEAKER_01: And to have the studies that you guys are working on to validate it.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: But the biggest validation is what you Said, you know, the patient with the brain tuber and the results that we're getting, right?
44:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: Because they say, where are the peer-reviewed, double blind, placebo, crossover study?
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, we can't use our patients as guinea pigs and just use one therapy, right?
44:16
SPEAKER_01: So this is very important.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, time is already running out, but uh thank you for this very encouraging input today.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed it, and I feel like we could talk for hours about our experiences and share our clinical results.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's always amazing.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: So I really hope we will see each other in the near future again.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: So in the end, I think most people would find you, of course, to hope for clear for cancer clinics.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, is there any specific information you would like to share with the audience?
44:49
SPEAKER_00: Contact information or on your I I know you wrote some very nice books on integrative cancer therapy.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, if you would like to share anything else with our audience.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: First of all, Robert, thank you for this opportunity.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: First of all, I'm happy to see you and share our experiences together to your to your followers and beyond.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: We'll also distribute the link to this webinar because information is so powerful, right?
45:18
SPEAKER_01: And it empowers us to excel and to live healthy.
45:22
SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Robert, for this opportunity.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: Our clinics are called Hope for Cancer Treatment Centers.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: The website is hopethenumber four cancer.com, hopeforcancer.com.
45:33
SPEAKER_01: We have two centers, one in Tijuana, Mexico, that we opened in the year 2000.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: So we celebrated 25 years uh last year in 2025, and the Cancun Treatment Center opened in 2015.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: So we celebrated 10 years there.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: The difference between the two centers is that the Tijuana is a small hospital, and that's an inpatient facility.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: The patients stay there, they sleep there, they do everything there with a companion, their private room.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: The Cancun Center is an outpatient facility, and so the treatments are the same at both centers, only that in Tijuana, patients are more advanced.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: They may require 24-7 medical and nursing care, you know, blood transfusion, draining fluid from the lungs or ascites.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's a more intense approach with respect to the type of patient in Teguana.
46:31
SPEAKER_01: And uh, yeah, it's been quite a journey for 25 plus years.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: We also, Robert, this is interesting.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: We opened a medical wellness center in Cancun.
46:41
SPEAKER_01: And this is not a wellness spa.
46:44
SPEAKER_01: This is this is a medical wellness.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: We did a soft launch already.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: We've treated about 130 patients, and we haven't even promoted it yet.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: But interestingly, we found three patients that came for wellness, Robert, with cancer, and they didn't know it.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: They came for wellness.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: One had thyroid cancer, the other one breast cancer, and the other one colon cancer.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: So it's very important for all of us to take our health into our own hands and consider a medical wellness program.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: We have patients coming from Japan for wellness, and it's really in-depth assessment.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: It's not just a routine blood test and all that.
47:25
SPEAKER_01: We have technology.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, Robert, I always say if you don't know where something came from, like a device, a technology, say Germany, and 90% of the time you'll be right.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: So we have good diagnostic equipment from Germany, treatment equipment uh from Germany, from your company, Robert, medical Weber Medical.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, medical wellness is a must uh now.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: And my two books you mentioned, one of them is the Hope for Cancer book.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: This is on Amazon, and then I wrote another book recently that's called Cancer Outsmarted: 11 Integrative Hallmarks to Minimize Risk and Optimize Health.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: So, this is how can we outsmart cancer?
48:12
SPEAKER_01: Because as we all know, cancer is not a stupid disease, it's a smart disease, and we have to outsmart it.
48:18
SPEAKER_01: So, in this book, I talk about 11 hallmarks that we have to analyze and assess so that we can minimize the risk of getting cancer and optimize health.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: And then my third book coming out later this year in September, October 2026, is called Emotions and Cancer.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: Releasing emotional trauma as a foundation to your healing.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: And we know, right, Robert, that you know it's the spiritual, the emotional, mental, and then the physical body.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: So if we can let go of unresolved emotional trauma, we're going far in improving the patient's opportunity to recover.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: And as you said, we could talk forever, and maybe that's uh but you could get the books at uh Amazon, uh hopeforcancer.com.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: And what a gift and an opportunity to be with you today, Robert.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much again.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: It was really a pleasure talking and listening to you.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: And I'm also looking forward to read your books in the near future, and then yeah, hopefully we will meet in person again soon.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Tony.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, everyone out there, for listening, and yeah, see you next time again.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: Take care.