Latest / Auto Collabs / Students of the Industry with Michael Lucki and Matthew Vollmers

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Students of the Industry with Michael Lucki and Matthew Vollmers · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  You know, in school, I never studied for anything. I'm out. [laughs] Bueller? Bueller? [laughs] [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs.
• 0:17
  [laughs] I have nightmares. I'm not kidding you. I've, I graduated high school- Congratulations... 22 years ago. [laughs] And I actually have nightmares sometimes.
• 0:28
  I'll wake up and I'll be like, "Did- wait, I graduated, right?" 'Cause, like- [laughs]... I was not a good student. I was not a good student, dude.
• 0:36
  Like, they, they came to me like three months- Text LinkedIn, "Oh, yeah, bitch," said, "I, I, I graduated college." Say whatever you want. One time I put that. [laughs] You can say that.
• 0:43
  Say whatever you want on LinkedIn. Say whatever you want on LinkedIn. They don't, they don't fact-check that crap. No. No. Not at all.
• 0:47
  But for real, like, the school experience is, is one of those things where everyone had a different experience with it. Some people it was good, some people it was bad.
• 0:56
  Today's two guests are NADA Academy instructors, right? So they, I have a feeling the school that they're running is a little bit different than the school that- A little different...
• 1:07
  we participated in because- Slept through... you, you have slept through, perhaps. Um- Participated. [laughs] Air quotes. No, these are people who voluntarily come,
• 1:18
  pay a lot of money to come and learn about how to, you know, how to run a dealership, about the dealership world. It's kind of like, um, I don't know, it's...
• 1:27
  I've never been through an NADA Academy class, but I would assume it, it starts very high level, right? 'Cause it's NADA. It's gotta start at, at the top.
• 1:35
  And I'm, I'm interested in how that gets contextualized for today's auto industry, you know, 'cause that really is the challenge of any long-standing organization. How do you continually reinvent to stay relevant?
• 1:47
  Meanwhile, you have a lot of momentum going. You just have a lot of, you know, size and system that, that, that momentum can just tend to carry you forward without the requirement to reinvent.
• 1:57
  But, so I'm curious to see how they actually navigate that. Well, I, uh, you know, what I've, what I've noticed and, and what I know of, of people that have been to NADA Academy is it becomes a, a, you know...
• 2:08
  Like, graduate programs are a lot about these cohorts. And it seems like- Yeah...
• 2:12
  these gra- uh, the, the graduates all become, like, a, 90% of the value is actually not what happens in the class, it's what, it's what happens with the community- Around the class... that gets built around the class.
• 2:23
  Yeah. Mm. It's this cohort mentality- Yes... of, like, I always check back in with these guys.
• 2:27
  It's like a second 20 group almost that is continuous, that it's like, "Hey, I get to check back in with this person or this person." And so, uh, I think that, you know, anytime, you know...
• 2:36
  We, we believe in building community, uh, first, and I think that there's an element that, that maybe NADA has unbeknownst to themselves built community, uh, out of classes, which is, which is kinda cool.
• 2:48
  Well, hey, uh, we really hope that you enjoy this conversation that we had with a couple of NADA class Academy instructors.
• 3:01
  [upbeat music] Well, it is fun today. We have two guests. Is it the first time we've had two guests, Kyle? I think this might be. This is a whole new- I think it might be. So this is Auto Collabs first.
• 3:15
  [laughs] There it is. [laughs] And we don't have one, but two NADA instructors.
• 3:20
  So we're talking about the people who have, like, their hands in the dirt shaping the perception and the hearts and the minds of the soon-to-be dealer personnel all across the country.
• 3:31
  Um, Michael and Matt, thank you for joining us today. Welcome. Happy to be here. Yep. All right. So, um, I have to ask this question just to kick it off. We've had a little bit of interaction.
• 3:41
  You know, we met on social, then we've met in person, and we've kind of have this little, little understanding relationship going now. A lot of people talk about the next generation, right?
• 3:51
  It's a popular thing in culture to throw under the bus and, and, like, it's not really a new thing, let's be honest. This has happened for generation after generation, like, "Kids these days."
• 4:00
  Um, and although we're not talking about kids, but we are talking about, um, kind of like a new generation of auto dealers moving into a new environment that requires different management skills, different people skills, um, different kind of, like, even just social navigation skills.
• 4:15
  Um, I'd like to hear from both of you, what is your perception of the classes as, as, you know, these students are g- are walking in? What are some overall perceptions? Um, let's go...
• 4:24
  Michael, you can take it first 'cause Kyle and I have the same problem when someone asks two of us a question and leaves it open-ended. We all just sit there and, like, look at each other like, "You wanna go? You go.
• 4:33
  I go. You go. You go." [laughs] So, uh, Michael, why don't, why don't you take that one first? All right. Thanks, Paul. So the Academy's been around for over 40 years, and we have over 12,000 graduates.
• 4:43
  So one of the nice things about at your Sotocon is that I met up with people and the first thing they said is, "I'm graduation class this, this, and this." Awesome. Um, so it's really great.
• 4:53
  And whenever we're in a room like that, we sort of feel like rock stars because, because they know the experience, they know what we do, they know what we're all about.
• 5:01
  So what, one of the things that we've noticed, though, over the years in this program, and I haven't been here that long. I graduated from the Academy in 2015 as a student myself, and so did Matt as a student.
• 5:13
  So we know what it's like on the student side and now on the instructor side. But one of the things that I've noticed is that the classes used to be primarily sons and daughters of dealers.
• 5:24
  It was to prepare the next generation of successors, dealer candidates, to get them approvable by the OEMs and also to get that knowledge.
• 5:32
  And it used to be maybe 70, 80% of our students were successors, and maybe 15 or 20% were general managers. Mm. Well, that's completely shifted. It's almost reversed. So our students are mostly general managers.
• 5:47
  75 to 80% are general managers, sales managers, finance managers, service managers, parts managers sometimes.
• 5:56
  Um, but most, mostly they're the managers that are up and coming in the stores.And, and about 20% are, are successors right now.
• 6:04
  So we've also grown the program from only teaching about 10 classes a year to teaching over 25 classes a year, and teaching about 1,000 students a year. So the, the people that are coming through are young,
• 6:16
  they're diverse,
• 6:19
  they're a lot more women that are coming through, and it's, uh, it's really, really inspiring to see the future leaders of our industry being represented by people that want to learn, want to change, and want to be in touch with what's happening at the most progressive dealers in the country.
• 6:37
  So yeah, we, we have access to those people every single day, in person and online. Um, so- What an awesome responsibility. I mean, Matt, what do you...
• 6:49
  Do you see the background of this kind of new breed of folks coming through the classes, what backgrounds are they coming in from? You know- I see everything...
• 6:57
  'cause if that success- the successor background, right, is clear. Daddy had a dealership, right? That's how that works, right?
• 7:03
  But this, this broadening out of, of the, the types of folks that are coming in, where are they coming from? Well, I see the whole spectrum.
• 7:10
  We had a gentleman come through who was a retired full bird colonel in the Air Force, and immediately came to run more high-level things, but the first thing was go through the academy.
• 7:20
  So you're seeing a varied background of, Michael said, ages and people and where you're from.
• 7:25
  And so, you know, what I find is funny, those who have no experience or were just, were in fixed ops, they seem to gravitate more and really get more excited that they recognize the opportunity.
• 7:36
  You recognized something where you said, you know, "The older generation, they say, you know, 'These kids these days.'" The reality is the folks that come through aren't the normal, meaning the masses.
• 7:44
  They're, they don't fit that stereotype of that M word and Z word, which I'm not a fan of. Mm-hmm. Because I even challenge dealers. I said, "Look at your staff.
• 7:54
  You tell me if your top three people aren't between the ages of 18 and 42." Mm-hmm. And inevitably, 90% of the hands go up.
• 8:01
  There's this thin stereo, uh, type crust a- over the reality pie that exists in our industry of these bright, incredibly talented, hardworking folks, but the stereotype rules. Mm.
• 8:13
  And we get to see it firsthand, people grow. And Michael and I get them towards the end of their journey, so they're already acclimated. They're already getting the fine touches of what the academy brings.
• 8:23
  Because your number, your class number follows you for life, and they get those intangibles. That's the bulk of who we see. Now, yes, the stereotype still exists, the,
• 8:36
  "Dad has a store and I'm just going through this," or, "I really wanna be a doctor, but I gotta go through the business." [laughs] By the way, I hate that stereotype. You're right.
• 8:43
  Because if you are in that position and you're very successful, it's because it was given to you. Yeah. Oh, wait. And if you're in that position- Wait, you're saying-...
• 8:51
  and you are not successful, it was because you blew it. Right. So you're saying- Uh-... there's, there's, like, no, there's a no-win scenario there. No. I mean, we were just in, when we were, um...
• 9:01
  Did, did any of Greg Ciocca's sons go through the academy? Not recently that I can remember. So- But his, a lot of his team- A lot of his team has...
• 9:11
  they, this is, I think it's almost like a rite of passage with a lot of groups. Um, I know CMA, one of the... Phenomenal group, right in my backyard. Literally walk to his store in five minutes.
• 9:21
  They're, people are coming through in droves, and people I knew when I was a Toyota rep that were managers just kind of getting through the business with previous ownership.
• 9:30
  So the forward-thinking dealers are gonna be there.
• 9:32
  Now, Michael gets on this PhD as a pejorative, but I've seen so many people who are related who are, that title never applies 'cause they've earned every bit of their stripes, and that's where that stereotype takes over.
• 9:45
  And it's unfair to them, and they've got an extra burden to prove they're not only there because of it. And- Right...
• 9:51
  Michael and I have a lot of banter back and forth over the five years about what a PhD is and not, and I'm like- Yeah... "That's a pejorative. That's a..." [laughs] "That doesn't apply."
• 9:59
  Well, so while, while I was at the, uh, SoDeCon with you guys and speaking on one of the panels, uh, Matt was teaching a class in person to people from Carter Myers.
• 10:09
  There were two individuals that were their, their, their leaders in their company that were going through his class in person in Tysons.
• 10:16
  And Liza was sitting there and Scott was sitting there listening to my panel, so it was really... And in the audience was a, a graduate of the academy, a president of his class, which was Ben St. Ours, at the- Right...
• 10:27
  at the show. So you can see the types of people that are investing in their people. Mm-hmm. And we see- Yeah... those people in our classes.
• 10:35
  They are investing time, money, effort to develop their staff and really make sure that, that they're prepared. And that's one of the things that we have a responsibility to our students to provide.
• 10:47
  You know, uh, uh, in that responsibility and, you know, when, when I think about systems of education, no matter where they or- originate or where they're a part of, whether you're talking about public school education or private college education or, or, or furthering education like an organization like NADA, one of the things that, uh, you know, that I always kind of ha- have this question mark and, like, how do we keep things relevant?
• 11:11
  How do we keep things now?
• 11:12
  Like, I even think about my college career, and it's like, you know, just, just the, the idea of, like, there are things moving in the world at the speed of light, especially over the last couple years where, you know, new digital technologies, new approaches to retailing, all of that type of stuff.
• 11:27
  How, how are you all as, uh, as academy leaders as well as the, the ad- the academy overall keeping a pulse and making sure that things for these people that are coming through are relevant and they're not fixated on, you know, learnings or, or courses developed five, 10, 15, 20 years ago, where I think there's probably some benefit, there's value there, but how do you balance that and how do you keep, uh, you know, on that cutting edge for, for the people coming through?
• 11:56
  So Matt, you can take the part about the book and how, when what we, what we, uh-... uh, what we focus on in our content. But let me mention something about the academy.
• 12:05
  When you graduate from the academy, the full program, you can come back and take any of the classes again without paying the tuition. So you might think, "Well, people don't take advantage of that."
• 12:16
  Well, we had a class last night from 6:00 to 9:00 PM, and of the 25 people that were online with us, 10 of them graduated within the last three years. Wow. So what are they doing? They're trying to stay relevant.
• 12:29
  What was the class? And, it was a variable ops class on advanced inventory and marketing management, a night class. And, and one of them, uh, his team won our auction cup trophy, which was a competition on the auction.
• 12:42
  We appraise vehicles in the class, and then we watched them go through the auction today, and I watched them this morning go through. And his... He wanted to repeat, right? His team won the first time.
• 12:51
  But anyway, it was a lot of fun in the class. Uh, Sean Ford, shout out to you as a GM from, uh, California, and a dealer from California. But the, the point is that we have to stay relevant.
• 13:02
  And the reason I went to a conference like yours was to make sure that we're relevant. Mm. Is to make sure that we're providing that information.
• 13:11
  And not just the information, providing the insights that dealers are taking that information and actually making those changes back at their store. And we hear it every class.
• 13:19
  We hear it when people want to come back to our class. So we are constantly updating our content. Every single week, there's a different topic that we're bringing up.
• 13:29
  And a lot of times we're not in the stores to see it actually change, but the students are. So Matt and I like to get out into stores. My family has stores in New York.
• 13:37
  I, I talk to them about the things that, that, um, that are going on. But we, we make it our job to stay relevant. Matt, you wanna tell them about our book? Yeah. Absolutely.
• 13:46
  When I went through the a- academy, my book for the class I teach was 160 pages, and I actually saw copyright marks from 2007. And it was valid, but it wasn't fresh. Our book is now- Mm... only 80 pages. Wow.
• 13:58
  Because what we've realized is what we... There's three levels of information we convey: what we can publish in the book, what we put on PowerPoint, and what's verbally or handed over to you.
• 14:06
  And we realized I got an update on expense profiles the day the class started, so I had to completely rework the PowerPoint, say, "Nope. Ignore it." We try des- we try very hard to keep whatever the latest and greatest.
• 14:19
  I'm gonna bring my wife into here 'cause, you know, I'm gonna be blunt. I married way out of my league. [laughs] And she's smarter than that. Joined the club.
• 14:26
  [laughs] But what's funny is we travel, and she goes, "I know. They're a student, and you wanna go tour their store. Oh, I know."
• 14:33
  [laughs] And then if she sees a Carvana tag on a gas station, she's like, "Oh, we're gonna be here for 10 minutes-" [laughs] "... 'cause I'm gonna engage with them. I wanna know what they're experiencing."
• 14:41
  So this is where Michael and I, we started relatively close, and we're like, "We've gotta push each other." And this is, like, the best compadre I've had ever in my lifetime because we challenge each other. Mm.
• 14:52
  And I knew I had earned his trust when he looked at me and goes, "You're wrong, and this is why." Not in a public environment, but... And then we debate it, and he changed my mind. Think about those you deal with.
• 15:01
  If I can change your mind. But we also challenge the student, "Take this back, and if it works, we wanna know. And if it's not," I'll be... I'm trying to be polite, "I wanna know that, too."
• 15:13
  But touring stores is one of the biggest things, and I do it on my own personal time. I... But that's how you get relevant. What's really working? We're in the sky box. They're taking hits on the field. Mm.
• 15:24
  I wanna get on the field, at least engage with them in their own ter- I wanna tour their building. I wanna shake every technician's hand. And just by osmosis, you pick up so much.
• 15:34
  And then in that tour, they reveal so more, so much in the little details. And that's one of our biggest edges, that we're allowed to get that time to go and see. Yeah. Matt, Matt brought that up, time.
• 15:46
  Time's really important, and guess how much time dealers and general managers have at their stores typically? [laughs] We know. We know.
• 15:54
  So, so we don't teach the last week of each month typically, and that's the week that we look at our content and we try to meet with vendors. Um, couple of the vendors that I met at your show, I'm meeting with tomorrow.
• 16:04
  Great. Uh, people, people that are- That's awesome... are, are pushing the envelope, people that are having new, um, new ideas.
• 16:11
  And because we have that extra week every month, that's the end of the month, which is difficult for us retail people to actually not be busy at the end of the month.
• 16:20
  Um, but we, uh, when we have that extra week, we have the time to focus on things that our dealers do not. Mm.
• 16:26
  Maybe the dealer principal can, but the general manager and sales manager do not have the time to do the in-depth analysis that we do. And we focus- Yes. You get to get your eyes up a little bit. Yeah. That's right.
• 16:37
  We focus on that every, every week to work on people's businesses versus working in them.
• 16:42
  We talk a lot about the evolution of the car business, and I've heard two words from, from both Matthew and Michael that I really like. One is relevancy. One is preparation.
• 16:53
  Um, I, I think so deeply about this idea of preparation, but also, as both of those words relate to the evolution of the car business, we talk a lot about how the car business is evolving.
• 17:04
  And as I've been listening to both of you speak, gentlemen, I think about musicians and how musicians have evolved playing instruments over the last 100 years.
• 17:13
  There were some incredible musicians back in the '50s, '60s, but with evolution, with preparation, with the desire to remain relevant, we're now seeing guitarists who play percussion.
• 17:25
  And it, you know, like, they're, they're li- they're, they're predicated on asking the question of, "Okay, I have all the ingredients I need to play music, but what if?"
• 17:36
  And that exploration that both of you are talking about, about keeping your, your head above, you know, basically the, the baseline of what dealers can maybe do while they're operating their store, that's actually how we get this industry to grow.
• 17:47
  So I love, I love that. In terms of preparation,
• 17:52
  how, how far ahead are, do, do you feel you need to be looking as an operator in order to stay adequately prepared or in a constant state of preparation so that you're not constantly bombarded by, "Oh, crap.
• 18:05
  I didn't know there was a recession," or, "Oh, shoot. I didn't know this was happening"? 'Cause I mean, that's, that seems to be the case, right?
• 18:11
  There seems to be some operators that are like, "Wait, when were they gonna tell me that there was a chip shortage?" [laughs] You know? And it's like, well, you needed to be prepared.
• 18:19
  You needed to be looking into, uh, ahead into the future. So is that, is that something that the two of you are doing? And if so, how do you relay that information back to those that you instruct?
• 18:30
  Michael, you wanna go first? Yeah, we call it being a s- we call it being a student of the industry. And, and how, how do you, how do you stay a student of the industry?
• 18:40
  And we're in a great industry, but Michael, as you said, there's so much going on every single day. If you, if you, if you read everything, you're gonna be overwhelmed. So in my mind, there's three buckets.
• 18:54
  There are things that you have to be aware of that might be coming in the future, but you don't have to do anything about right now.
• 19:00
  There are things to prepare for that you have to have a strategy on that are already happening around you or that you wanna be the leader on, and those are things that you need to be strategizing with your management team, usually maybe a, a quarter or a y- or half a year ahead of time.
• 19:15
  And then there's the last bucket, which are things that you have to act on right now, otherwise you are missing the boat or getting left behind. Mm.
• 19:23
  So in our class, I like our students to write down, out of everything we're gonna cover, there's gonna be some things in the awareness bucket.
• 19:29
  There's gonna be some things in the preparedness bucket, and there's gonna be some things in the act now bucket. Mm.
• 19:34
  So the, the awareness bucket, yeah, they follow it, but it's really not something that dealers are concerned about acting on right now. Like autonomous vehicles.
• 19:43
  It's very interesting to read about it, but are dealers really doing anything with it right now? No. Right. Electric vehicles have moved from awareness to right now, for, through preparedness.
• 19:53
  Actually, I, I think we're in preparedness right now, into almost right now. And the most often- Yeah, like the later stages of preparedness, right? Yeah, exactly. The window's closing to prepare. Mm-hmm.
• 20:02
  You gotta, you gotta be in motion and moving. Yeah.
• 20:05
  So we, we have to be aware of all of those, the things that you have to work on right now to be successful at a dealership, things that you're, that dealers are, the, the, the 5 or 10% are doing right now that you don't wanna be left behind, like digital tools in the showroom to present payments that are penny perfect.
• 20:20
  I heard that at the show, at your- Couple times. [laughs] So that- [laughs] Couple times... that's a preparedness part, right? Things that you have- Brian Cramer's ears are ringing. He's like, "Hmm" And, and,
• 20:28
  and then there's- It's gonna set it... and then there are the things that you have to act on right now. Um, and most of our dealers are in the act right now bucket because they can't get to the prepared bucket.
• 20:38
  That's my, my thoughts on it. Matt, what do you think? Well, I mean, yeah, let's look at the history of, you know, people. And we're in the midst of a massive generational shift coming up.
• 20:49
  And Michael, you brought this up. How we're ingrained in our culture and our thinkings with 30-day cycles. And you need to get someone to step back on that. I mean, you're, you need your paycheck.
• 20:58
  You need to focus on your family. I remember a salesman, "I love the first of the month. I'm unemployed on the first of every month- [laughs]... and I'm there to build my..." And that- Sounds terrible. [laughs] I know.
• 21:06
  But hey, it, it's, it's a, um, it's an adrenaline fix- Yeah... that once you get it, good luck shaking it. Well, there's a personality type, too, that lends itself- Well-... to excel in that environment, right? Sure.
• 21:19
  So first of all, stop thinking, keep, make 10% of your thought. Then right, like Michael breaks up in perfect buckets, but you gotta look at the, what the long-term's gonna be and recognize this.
• 21:28
  Now, with my class, there's discussions about used car inventory, and it clearly, the music has slowed, in my opinion, and those who aren't paying attention could be caught without a chair when the music does stop.
• 21:40
  And the other thing I tell them is, the other thing, be careful. Fat times breeds bad habits. Mm-hmm. And, and I love the saying, but I also remind them, that's a way to maybe shake that 30-day cycle. Yeah.
• 21:51
  Not eliminate it, but you've gotta have three cycles of how you look at things, what's coming down the road. And the more you're prepared for it, the more you are, you know, proactive than reactive.
• 22:01
  Well, the ir- ironic thing about 30-day cycles is they really were established and driven by incentive programs, right? Which are largely non-existent. You know?
• 22:12
  So it's like we're in this cycle that was actually started for one reason that isn't even relevant at all right now, but we've built a mechanism around it and a mentality around it that forces us to go.
• 22:22
  So, like, you're trying to break out of that, when if you took it like, if, you know, I, I'll, I'll steal- You know who's not on a 30-... from what Steve, Steve Greenfield puts it like this.
• 22:29
  If aliens showed up on the planet today- [laughs]... right, and they looked at the way we did, they would never say like, "This is how it should be done," with an objectivity.
• 22:37
  And I think the same is true for any business advisor. Be like, "So why are you so set on this 30-day thing when you know the play is actually broader than that?" But like, why is everything set around this?
• 22:47
  "Well, we used to do these things." You know, you know who's, you know who's not on a 30-day cycle? Is your fixed operations departments. That's the truth. They're on a daily cycle. And guess what?
• 22:57
  The general managers that we see that come through from fixed operations don't think about a 30-day cycle. They think about it every single day. They think lifetime. Mm. Right. And we- Yeah...
• 23:06
  and we, and we focus on how you can take that 30-day cycle and break it down to a daily or an hourly target for each person to make sure you're being productive so you don't have those lulls in the month that you normally would have on a 30-day cycle.
• 23:19
  Yeah. I think about, man, I think about that all the time, like the fact that fixed ops, like everything is predicated on hours per bay per day, right?
• 23:30
  Like, the, there's no sales department going sales per desk per hour, right? [laughs] Like, but if we measured to that, we would start setting appointments differently.
• 23:41
  We would start communicating with customers differently. We would start ex- expecting certain outputs from, from our variable ops teams differently. And I think that, I think that you're absolutely right.
• 23:51
  If we can, if we can kind of... Like, 'cause I think there's good in both worlds, right? But if we could marry the two a little bit more, it would be dialed in.
• 23:58
  I've got a really, a question that, like, feeds and serves me a little bit from, from just, like, my marketing and tech and, and that background.
• 24:05
  But what's, you know, because I think, uh, you know, obviously from an operational standpoint, understanding the accounting, understanding the, the actual operations, like what goes into the people management of the day-to-day is extremely important.
• 24:18
  But what are you seeing with this, w- especially with the newer generation, uh, what's the stickiness or the attachment to some of the new technologies or some of the new understandings a- around marketing or data that, that, th- that these...
• 24:32
  Are they coming in with a level of understanding or is there still a lot of learning to be had on that end as an industry? Still a lot of learningVery much so.
• 24:43
  I mean, the people, there, there's typically about 10% of our class, so the 30 people or so that are, that know this, know the marketing really well. Did you say- Like, like-... 10, 10%? 10%. Yeah. Wow.
• 24:54
  So people, people like Eric Hall, right? He was in our class. He was a graduate from N390, a recent class. He was a leader in his class with regards to marketing, right?
• 25:03
  So there are people like that that are coming through our class, and those people really shine in those areas. But everyone in the class has an expertise in one area or the other.
• 25:12
  So what you'll find is that if we were in a class together, that you might be the expert on marketing, Kyle, and I'd be the expert on financial management, and Matt would be the expert on OEM relations, and we would all be training each other in that process.
• 25:25
  That's great. Yeah. So, so y- yes, there are not that many people that are experts on marketing that are coming through the academy, and we don't try to make them an expert.
• 25:33
  What we try to do is give them an understanding of why this is important and how to, how to make sure that your vendors are...
• 25:39
  You're able to hold your vendors accountable, as well as holding your staff accountable, and understanding that this is more and more important. And you need to have someone at your dealership that is an expert. Mm-hmm.
• 25:49
  Or s- someone that you can trust that is on your payroll that is an expert in this area. Whether it's you or someone else- Sure... you need to have that person that is on- In every area, right?
• 25:59
  It's like, "Hey, look, there should be an expert in your, in your staff" And I think that's a new mentality- There are... especially because there are so many different segments.
• 26:07
  It's not like you can just run variable and fixed ops and then have accounting back it up, right?
• 26:11
  There's these other little segments that are coming into the operations of a retail environment that maybe we haven't experienced.
• 26:18
  And so having those dedicated personnel, I think, is just a staffing thing that, that operators are, are... It seems like are, are having to deal with. Well, we could ask questions for- Yeah. [laughs]...
• 26:27
  probably hours at this point- Yes...
• 26:29
  because this is, this is probably the most practical, tactical thing that we can be doing as an industry, is learning and relearning over and over and over, especially as the speed of change, uh, is happening in our industry.
• 26:41
  Uh, but Michael and Matthew, uh, really appreciate you being on today and, and, and having the fun of, of bouncing back and forth questions. It's, it's been a pleasure, and thanks for all that you do for our industry.
• 26:51
  On behalf of, uh, all three of us, thanks for joining us on Auto Collabs. No, my pleasure. Kyle, one, one thing. You touched on it. You said... Alvin Toffler is a futurist, passed away.
• 27:00
  Um, someone who had seminal impact on my life. He said, "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." Mm. And how- Wow...
• 27:11
  evident for the times that we are. And I tell our students, "If you think you had to relearn everything in the last two and a half years, buckle up. The next three-" [laughs] "... are gonna be nasty."
• 27:20
  Now, real quick, you talked about expertise. But they don't have that underlying current of take care of the customer. That foundation is what similarly has to change in our industry, in my opinion.
• 27:33
  It's not about- Yeah... setting the appointment. It's about have the connection. I think someone on a Sunday night, rainy Sunday night in Philadelphia, told me, "It's not about cars" [laughs] Mm.
• 27:43
  From a loudspeaker on a stage. Two people- [laughs]... dressed similarly. But they told me it was about connecting to people, and that is our biggest strength. And, you know, it, it's something critical.
• 27:55
  Thank you, both of you- Yeah... for, for the time. And Michael. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. And, uh, yeah, we'll look forward to continued conversations. [upbeat music] Okay, I have to say, the fact that...
• 28:10
  You know, we, we talked a little bit after the interview and asked some, like, logistical questions. Like, how do people actually experience the class? How much does it cost? How do they sign up?
• 28:21
  Just assuming that some of this audience for the Auto Collabs podcast might not have any experience with NADA Academy. And, uh, the one thing that they told us, like, the in-person version.
• 28:31
  There's an in-person and an online version. And the fact that the in-person version has that... Like, what you talked about, you know, before the podcast started.
• 28:40
  This, the, the, the education that happens around the education, right?
• 28:44
  And the relationships you meet and, you know, the availability of the people that you go through that forever will always say, "Hey, I'm class of..." whatever, however they designate it.
• 28:55
  And so I think that coming through NADA Academy, yes, you learn tactics and, you know, yes, you learn some systems and strategies.
• 29:03
  But I'll bet that the relationships forged in NADA Academy still exist decades later, even today, and that'll probably be the case for the future too.
• 29:12
  Yeah, to me, this, this, uh, this mentality of, like, that this is ongoing, I was really surprised to hear that. You know, last night they had that online class, the...
• 29:21
  You know, from when this was recorded, that 10 out of 25 of the people on it were repeat learners. Right.
• 29:28
  And that's encouraging to me because that tells me, like, dealers or people that are pursuant to being a dealer are extremely interested in, like, "Okay, I maybe went through this two or three years ago, but that maybe there's something new and relevant that I need to be approaching, or a classmate that can teach me something that I didn't know before."
• 29:48
  Uh, because I, I, I do think that especially the way this industry is evolving right now and the speed of change, uh, like, to go through NADA class in 2015 is kinda like...
• 30:00
  I- I- It's literally irrelevant to what's going on right now. No kidding.
• 30:04
  Like, 2015 to 2022, the irrelevancy of the way that data's handled, the way that marketing's handled, the way that even operations in the sales department- [clears throat]...
• 30:13
  even operations in the service de- Like, nobody was doing video in the service department in 2015. No kidding. And now people are, right?
• 30:21
  Like, that's an operational difference that you have to understand at this point, you know? And, and so I...
• 30:26
  That's encouraging to me, that people are continuing their education, and that you kinda, like, once you're in, you're in. Um, I didn't know that about NADA Academy, so pretty cool.
• 30:35
  I had two thoughts listening to this conversation. The first one was, how in the world-[laughs] They're just basically- We both start laughing. As soon as you say this, we're both like, [laughs] "What's he gonna say?"
• 30:49
  How in the world- "What's he gonna say?" [laughs] Well, the, the first thing is- [laughs]... I, and I don't wanna make this comparison, but I, I feel like it's, it's the one that came to my mind.
• 30:57
  I'm like, could this be like Top Gun for car dealers? Um, because based on- What?... the second thing I'm about to say, how in the world do you convince this many people in our industry to do any amount of reading?
• 31:09
  Because that's been a long-standing [laughs] problem in our industry. [laughs] That's a great point. Like, legit. It's fair. I wrote a book- Yeah, no, it's fair... and people were like, "How many pages is the book?"
• 31:18
  Like, if you had to break it down to word count, like, what am I into this for, like couple hours? I'm like, "Eh." That's exactly why I included pictures in mine. [laughs] Right. Mine's just a long article.
• 31:28
  [laughs] So o- on the back of what you're saying, Kyle, this community, and what you're saying, Paul, relationship, I, I thought of that because I'm like, well, what happens in Top Gun?
• 31:35
  You, you come in from all different areas with certain skillsets, perhaps the ingredients to be successful. You go through the academy from a high level all the way down to the, to, to graduation.
• 31:49
  You've now learned how to assemble those ingredients in the right sequence. But also then I was like, how do we get so many people in this industry to read?
• 31:57
  But it makes sense that, um, m- I think it was Matthew saying, it's a small percentage of dealers that actually go through this thing. Mm-hmm.
• 32:04
  And that's where the Top Gun th- I was like, okay, so that, that's how that happens. So really enjoyable episode with our new pals, Mike, uh, Michael. I almost said Mike. [smacks lips] I gotta- Yeah...
• 32:14
  I gotta work on that. Sounds, sounds good. But maybe his mom doesn't like him being called Mike. Right. Michael- I named him Michael. I named him Michael. And Matthew. Michael and Matthew from NAD Academy.
• 32:24
  We hope you enjoyed this episode of Auto Collabs. On behalf of myself, Paul J. Daly, and Kyle Mountsier, thanks for joining us on this episode. We'll catch you on the next one.
• 32:33
  [upbeat music] Sign up for our free and fun-to-read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com. That's A-S-O-T-U.com.
• 32:46
  If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 32:55
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Auto Collabs. Welcome to Auto Collabs. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet? Not yet.