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71 What Actually Makes a Facebook or Instagram Ad Work? with Jade Mc Neil · The Rave Social Podcast

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Rave Social Podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Today we have Jade, who is a very special guest, and we're just so excited to have her.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: She Jade is a meta-ads specialist who helps businesses generate qualified leads and sales through Facebook and Instagram advertising.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: She works with service-based businesses, e-commerce brands, and online businesses to build profitable campaigns with a transparent psychology-based approach.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: She helps businesses simplify their marketing and grow through paid ads.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been following Jade for a while now.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember exactly how long, but I've been following her on threads and Instagram.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell you that the results that she gets for her clients are incredible.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you're really going to want to listen to this episode.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Jade.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm so excited to have you.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so I know you have a background in psychology, but before we get into that, let's just start with the most basic thing ever.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: For the business owner who's thought, like, maybe I should try ads, how do you know what businesses actually are ready for meta ads?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are there things you want to see working organically first, or what's the vibe?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there's definitely a few things I love to see before starting ads.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the first thing I'll look at is if you have proven offers, because the thing is, meta-ads are meant to amplify what's working, they won't necessarily fix something that isn't selling in the first place.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So ideally, you do want to have a proven offer that you've been, it doesn't matter if it's a product or service that you've been able to sell organically before even touching paid ads.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because also, then you also have more data through your content to test ads.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So this is really helpful.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this not every ad specialist is gonna mention this one, but the other thing, I like to see some type of organic presence on Instagram, Facebook, because for sure, like you don't have to be posting every day.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is when someone sees your meta ads to their on their Instagram feed or Facebook feed, sometimes they're gonna they're likely to click to go stock your profile and see if you're legit, you know.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you actually know what you're talking about?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So this is helpful to be a minimum active, or maybe sometimes you show up once in a while in stories, you know, just to show that you're there.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is definitely helpful.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing I would say, I mean, having a good website, obviously, because ads, I mean, they're gonna bring the they're gonna bring the traffic, but then you need some type of place to send it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And ideally, it's a website, obviously, that this kind of goes back to proven offer, but you've been able to sell your offer, so your website is converting already without paid ads.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So this is important.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would say like the other one, kind of like backhand systems, but in a sense that you have an email list, maybe some sales funnel.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be super complicated, but some type of place where you direct people because again, ads get you the traffic, but then you need to send them somewhere else, whether it's in your lead funnel or if you're selling something, when they purchase, they they get on your email list.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say those are like the main the main things I recommend having in place before you touch paid ads.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it can be so tempting to be like, I'm just gonna do paid ads, like because organic growth can be slow and difficult.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it can feel like I just want to run paid ads and like actually guarantee that people are like seeing what I'm doing.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But that's really like that's only a small part of it that the ads are getting you in front of more people, yes.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: But like, what are you doing with those people after they see your ad?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can you actually convert them?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, it's like it's not that different from organic marketing either.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I, you know, as a social media manager, it's like I can't sell your offer if your offer isn't sellable.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you've never been able to sell it, like I'm also not gonna be able to magically write a viral reel for you that's gonna sell it.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like all of those elements are valuable in both the paid space and the organic space.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's definitely like some overlap between organic and meta ads, and this is why like it's not a matter of using ads to replace organic content.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't actually like this.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can use both because they have like different ways of attracting people, they're both important.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I do believe like a mix of both is it's amazing.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I love what you said about having like an organic presence because it's true, like people kind of want to verify that like you're real, even if they see you initially from an ad, it's like they want to come to your page.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think, especially for service providers, maybe e-com is is a little bit different, but like especially for service providers, like they want to make sure you're not like a scammer or like AI.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I think that's super valuable too.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: I know people probably come to you all the time and they're like, I tried running ads.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's like, I know there was a$5 ad craze, that sort of a thing.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: What do you tell people when they come to you and they're like, I just lit$500 on fire, nothing happened.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if I believe in paid ads at this point.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, this happens so often.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'll say is, I mean, this is specific to my approach, but the first step is to figure out where the issue happened.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, I separate in three different parts basically.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: The issue could be that your ad didn't work, the actual ad, the creative, the ad copy.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem could also be maybe on your lending page.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like your ad was doing the job, was getting clicks of relevant people, but then they weren't uh converting on the lending page or the sales page.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So this is another issue, the sales page, landing page part.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then also it could also be um deeper in the funnel.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe the ad did its job, you got the clicks, then uh people opt in on the lending page to your offer, your freebie, whatever, but then in your deeper in your funnel, though those leads are not converting into paid clients.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is like a deeper problem where uh your funnel is not converting, maybe it's your email sequences, uh, you got to check your open rates, all those things.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the first step is really to figure out okay, where did the issue happened?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's gonna be hard to figure out how to fix it if you don't even know where the problem is.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's so major, especially with the emails.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's so tricky.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like there could be a missing link somewhere, like you really have to kind of audit the whole flow to make sure it's all working where you want it to go before you put money behind it, or else, like, yeah, you're I mean you're setting the money on fire, but you're also just like that's just such a big risk to not have like that stuff dialed before you put ad spend exactly.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And a thing to be aware when you're running ads, obviously it's gonna require you to track your metrics, like in a sense, it is similar to organic when you you have to track a few things.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's the same thing with ads, and the only way you can learn, because of course you're gonna have bad ads, bad campaigns, not everything is gonna work out.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's like our organic content, not every piece is gonna go viral, and sometimes it's not even the point.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but yeah, you gotta track your metrics to know uh regularly what to adjust, what's working, and what's not, and you adjust from there.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that I also love about you and have learned about you from what you share organically, which is lovely, is that you have a psychology background.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you approach your ads from that lens.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us about that?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the neuroscience?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you do that?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: How does that help you know what is gonna work in an ad and what's not?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, because I studied psychology, I would say I stop viewing marketing as a way to convince people, but I see it more as a way to help you make the right decision.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like whether the decision is to buy something or to not buy something doesn't matter.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, there is a saying actually in uh marketing and sales where somebody confused is not gonna buy from you.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: So this is something I follow very closely related to psychology.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you want to make it clear uh to people because obviously, like for example, if I'm looking to buy something but I'm not a hundred percent sure that it's gonna serve me or benefit me, well, I'm less likely to buy.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So this is why I don't ask myself, okay, how can I convince someone to to buy whatever service or product?
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about asking myself, how can I make uh how can I make sure basically this person is confident to move forward?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh I love that.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like a confused person doesn't buy.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it like when I say that, it's like, oh duh, that's so obvious, but like I mean, it's easy to confuse someone, I feel like, especially in like today's age, like there's so much information, and like I just think you have to be so specific.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And even being specific sometimes is confusing because if they don't understand the words that you're using because you're using like industry jargon, like that's confusing.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're you're trying to use like bigger words to look smarter, but actually it's not doing much, you know, you're just confusing people.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, you mentioned when we were getting ready for this episode an experiment from the 1950s by Olden Milner that you think has some really interesting implications for marketing today.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us about that experiment and what you think we could learn from it?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this is so interesting.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, researchers put a rat in a cage um with a lever, and whenever the rat would press on the lever, uh parts of his brain involved in um dopamine would get electrically stimulated.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the the rat started to press the lever over and over to a point where he would ignore food and water because he was so focused on pressing the lever and to get this dopamine.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And originally scientists uh thought that this was a proof that okay, dopamine is basically like a pleasure chemical, uh, but neuroscience has evolved after this, and now we know uh we know better that dopamine is really tied back to things like motivation, uh, just wanting something, pursuing something, or um, the other one is uh anticipating reward.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so basically, what you understand from this is that dopamine, it's not just enjoying the award or the the offer, product, whatever.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually what keeps you seeking it.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for marketers, uh it's interesting to for marketers this uh experiment because this basically tells us that good marketing, it's not just telling someone to buy something, it's kind of like to we need to create anticipation.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, uh, let's say we have a uh product brand, like let's do skincare product.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, a skincare brand, maybe instead of saying, okay, buy my skincare product, maybe they say something like uh woman over their 40s are changing this wanting and their routine.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And now the brain naturally wants the answer.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we're creating anticipation before asking for the cell.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I I love that.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like that's definitely a new way to look at at that.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And do you feel like that happens like through copywriting or does it happen through like how funnels are created or offer ladders?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you think we create that?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say it happens a bit everywhere, so it can be in your visual, like whether you're well, your ad creative, it's a video or graphic, doesn't matter.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: The way you present it, like obviously in your visual, you need to say more than hey, like buy my service, buy my product.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like you need to phrase it differently and through your ad copy, the same thing, the way you present it uh to people.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: You obviously you want to make people want to click on your ad.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it needs to be interesting enough, and like so they anticipate, they're curious to know, okay, like I want to know more about this.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, like in the ad, of course, but also deeper in your funnel, especially if you're some or a lead gen company or maybe online coaches, like they have a funnel with a freebie and then uh email sequences.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is something you have to do as well in your your emails.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when you are helping people with ads, are you helping with everything from creative to copy to the more like logistical side of it where it's like ad spend and audience identification?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, tell me about that.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: My approach, I'm not just like, yes, I'm the ad girl, but I love to look at the whole picture, like the cust the whole customer journey.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm someone who will help my clients.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not actually gonna build the lending or sales page because usually my client they have someone on their team to do it, but I will provide a recommendation if I see that, oh, maybe we should tweak uh this section so it's aligned with the ads.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And even in uh the funnels, I'll often help my clients improve uh the email sequences, especially sometimes we need to tweak it to a cold audience from traffic uh from the ad traffic.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, I really look at the big picture and often help my clients with like all the little parts.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, because there are so many parts to ads, it's not like just turning it on, right?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And choosing the right audience.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I did have a question about ad creative.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: So for some of our clients in their experience, we've done, we've had organic content do really well, and then they have taken that content and put ad spend behind it and found success that way.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that you have found works well, or do you kind of separate the two strategies and just really only focus on ad?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, yes, I I have some clients that we will use the organic content and uh use it for ads because obviously, if something performs really well organically, chances are that it's gonna perform well in ads.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: But one thing I'll say is I don't usually we don't only do this for clients.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll always have some campaigns that the creative, the the videos, the graphics, statics, whatever, they have been created specifically for ads, they haven't been posted organically because uh with ads, you do want to test different angles, different variations.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you'll have something that works super well for a couple weeks, sometimes months, but then you need to change it.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I personally always make sure to uh create a bunch of variations.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not only gonna be uh basically reusing the organic content, usually it's gonna be variations of what work well um organically.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, I love that.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I saw something on Threads the other day about like ad fatigue.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the person, I can't remember who posted it.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe it was, I think it might have been Litchfield Media, but she said something about um ad creative and needing to refresh it and needing to um like have like you're saying, like have like a lot of them because sometimes that can impact ad performance.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Can you explain that a little bit?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, of course, at some point, um people are gonna see the same ad over and over.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a specific metric that tells you in your ad account, actually, it's called the the frequency.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you can look at that and know like if it gets too high, usually it's time to change it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say too high, I mean I mean there's no like perfect numbers, but if it's above, I'm gonna say like sometimes above two, I'll start changing it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, usually it's like below that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I don't want to say like, okay, if it's above two, like you have to change it.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on other factors.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it happens because obviously, let's say you're a super niche industry, maybe you're an online coach for specific people.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, at some point, the same people are gonna see your creative over and over again.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say actually the most important thing to look at is do you start seeing a decrease in leads or sales?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh for you.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so do you start seeing a decrease in leads or sales?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because technically, even if you notice that your frequency is high, but you're still getting leads and sales, well, you can keep your ad running until you you see a decrease.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I would say don't necessarily pause it and still, like if you're still seeing results, but the if the results start declining, this is when you know like it's time to uh refresh your creatives.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And refreshing your creatives, do you feel like it's enough to change colors on things?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or is it more about like the placements?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it happening in stories, in reels, in carousels, um, or is it the actual like copy and like you need to change that?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would say for me, if I start to see a decline, a result, I'm actually gonna change the ad.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I'm gonna change the whole visual, uh, the ad copy.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not about starting from scratch every time.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but yeah, like tweaking a few things.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really actually gonna change the ad creative rather than changing things like uh the placement, because I find that, yeah, like it just shows that the audience is tired of your creative.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: So changing things like lip placement, it might help a little bit, but long term I would prioritize changing the ad creative.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm assuming that's just because like the same people are seeing the same ad with the same copy, with the same visual, and so they're just they're immediately like recognizing it as an ad and not interacting with it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is that kind of what it means to have fatigue in that way?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same people seeing your um your ad over and over, and you'll see actually your impressions get really high, but the reach, it's not high.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So this tells you, okay, like it's the same people seen over and over.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, basically, because the thing this is tricky because it doesn't mean that the person is not interested.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they will spend a lot of time looking at your ad every time.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: So automatically they're still gonna get to see your ad.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they spend some time on your your ad, well, Meta is like, oh, okay, maybe this person is interested.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: But if they like never buy from you, it's kind of like a false signal.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So this is just something to keep in mind.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's another thing that can uh that can happen.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes so much sense.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, a little bit kind of going backwards into what you're talking about, like anticipation, reward, motivation.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is the ethical question, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Of marketing.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, when does it become where's the line?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: When does it become manipulation, you know, or like uh just unethical versus using those things as tools in an ethical way?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: That is that's a good question.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say for me, the line is pretty clear in the sense that I mean, psychology and marketing should really just help someone make the right decision for them, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like what we talked in the beginning.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So whether that decision is to buy something or to not buy something, it really doesn't matter.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't feel like a icky pressure.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, manipulation is when you'll start adding things like I mean, obviously there's like fake urgency, but another one I see often it's hiding information.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by this is, for example, on a um a sales page, you know, like you'll have this section, oh, this is the right fit or this is not the right fit for blah, blah, blah, like those type of sections.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, sometimes people will make those sections like super vague, uh, withholding information.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: They'll say some things like, uh, oh, this is not for you if um you don't want to make money.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is not for you if okay, like it doesn't help.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't help qualifying.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're withholding information that will help that will help your idle buyer evaluate is this the right fit for them?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is this not?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, this to me is a form uh of manipulation because you're being intentionally vague because you're you don't want to filter too much, you want to get more sales.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: So this is when um kind of you can cross the line and that I see often happen with uh advertising.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's such a good point.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because actually, when I asked you that, I was like, oh my gosh, this question's like kind of hard.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like uh the line is kind of blurry.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it's actually not, it's actually not blurry at all.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, uh, are you trying to manipulate people?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, if you are, and I think you can also, it comes from like the scarcity of feeling like no one's ever gonna buy your offer.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you are operating from that place at all in business, you have to really check yourself because it's that can lead you to putting vague things and manipulating your audience into buying from you, and like ultimately, like you don't want those clients, you don't want the clients that you have scared shitless into buying from you.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not fun for you or them because they're gonna expect you to save them and they just become a nightmare.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, you don't want that anyway.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, the next question I had for you, we actually kind of already went over, which was mostly about the ad creative.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna skip that and go into meta.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: God bless meta.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's always changing.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like literally always, and the business suite and all of that is just absolutely chaotic.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: What about it should business owners, maybe they're running their own ads right now?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: What should they worry about?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: What should they not worry about?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a way around working with Meta?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's not.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it changes like almost every week, I swear.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's crazy because my ad account looks different from my clients.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, things are not exactly the same.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like whatever.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so what businesses should focus on?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, it's funny because I do notice a lot of businesses tend to be worried about the audience targeting.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we're at a point where actually your creative can do most of the heavy lifting.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I see some businesses that are so concerned, like, okay, what do I need to put?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like which keywords, uh, the audience, like how do I build it?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, it's for so many of my clients, we are super broad because the creative does more of the heavy lifting.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, it's like the ad is gonna, this is what's gonna get people to click.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, targeting sometimes it can matter.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that it doesn't, but you can get away with being broad a lot of time uh if you just focus on doing a good creative.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, like for a business that's already familiar with organic content, they have better chances usually of creating ads because they understand how to create a good video or maybe a cousel or static.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so yeah, to really just focus on a good creative that will do its job of filtering people.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that perspective because I do feel like I've been in meta before and like I've I've never like run a campaign for myself, but I've played with ads.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I go in there, I get caught up in the like how many people this, you know, and it kind of shows you it'll be like, okay, now you're only you're gonna reach a million people, or now you're gonna reach a hundred thousand people, and it's like I don't even know what is good or what's not good there.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but like I don't know, it just it gets you can get in your head of like, well, I don't want this to be shown to men, and I don't want it to be shown to this and that and then like you can almost like try to control it too much, and then your like target audience is so small that it's like I don't know if it's even worth running the ad.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely tricky, and I know it can be annoying, like especially when you were talking when you try to target women, but it seems to be men seeing your ads.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this is tricky.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you could always have the option to toggle off men, just select women.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't always work.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I I read something about it, but I'm not a hundred percent sure, like it's something I need to test.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: But apparently, it kind of sucks to say.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're a woman and you're like uh like you're pretty, obviously, you're pretty and you dress well, naturally, it's gonna attract men.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's I'm not sure if it's like a hundred percent fact from meta, but I have seen this around uh several times.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I've uh we've struggled with that with certain clients of ours too.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like we have sometimes have badour photographers and stuff like that, and it's like impossible almost to be like, don't show this to men.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we don't want men, but it's like they will find it, and this is why you can't trust men.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just kidding.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: But like honestly, it is like frustrating.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this is not for you, stop looking at my stuff.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, that's super interesting to know that even in meta, like when you're running ads, it can even like it doesn't really matter, like you could toggle it off, and it may or it may not work.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing, this is just a freaking rant, but like I can't believe that meta is such a massive business, and yet we don't all just get the same updates.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was talking to a client about this, and I'm like, I don't get it.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Why can some people move their grid around and some people can't?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: It can't be that hard to just make the update go like to everyone.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's so crazy.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh, same thing with ad accounts.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll I'll see uh futures or functions and one ad account, but then I don't have it in the other.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what's going on?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, it makes it so hard to do your job too.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you're like, okay, well, I can't use that on this one, I guess.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll do a different strategy, but oh my gosh, Meta, if you're listening, you're pissing us off.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the thing they are listening, like they just don't care.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, okay.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I know that you offer consulting sessions for people at different levels of experience with ads.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: What is like who is a consulting session best for?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: When do you when is someone ready to run their own ads versus ready for you to handle it for them?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, my consulting session are good uh if you want to keep running your own ads because you can get my eyes on your ad account, your business, and I've really helped uh businesses from different levels.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can help you uh set completely from scratch an ad account if you don't even have an ad account, the whole like tracking with the MetaPixel, sometimes it can be tricky and launching your first campaign.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I have this type of clientele, but I also have the more advanced sometimes where they just need uh external pair of eyes.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, in their team, they have someone running the ads, uh, they have their funnels in place.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, actually, like I think it was two weeks ago, a business hired me to review the whole uh evergreen funnel that was meant for the meta ads traffic because they were like too much in their business and they needed that external like paraffice.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so this can be really helpful as well.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it really doesn't matter what level of experience you're you're at.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I adapt my consulting session based on uh where you're at.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I love that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you is there a specific client who is like shouldn't be doing it on their own?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it just kind of up to you?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you like doing it, you should do it.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't like doing it, you should hire someone.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the the most important thing is if you want to do it on your own, you have to be prepared that it's gonna require you to put a bit of time.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, like we talked a little bit about uh looking at your metrics.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, I will track metrics uh every single week for all clients.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is something to consider, right?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't take uh 10 hours, like you just have to do it, but it's to keep an eye on it and like because for example, you could you could have an ad again that's working well, and then suddenly it stops working in two weeks.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to like be there to realize it because you don't want it to keep spending for nothing.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just something to consider that it will require you to be in inside your ad account, so you have to be willing to invest uh that time.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's not just like a set it and forget it type of thing, like it needs it needs management, which is actually so interesting because I feel like ads give the vibe or the energy that you could set it and forget it to a degree, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe you need to run a holiday campaign or maybe you need to run a campaign for this sale or that sale.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like for the most part, it gives the vibe that you could just set it up, let it run, it's gonna start working for you.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: But in reality, it actually does need more eyes and tweaking and actual like management of it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously, if you have more experience like me, like obviously I'm at a point where I'm pretty good at creating ad creatives for clients.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: So usually uh once it's set, you know, like I'll optimize it a little bit, but it doesn't require big changes when it once it's launched.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: But this is when you know what you were what you're doing, right?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're a complete beginner, it's gonna require you to be more uh more insider ad account.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you always have to be in it, but uh to be more aware of what's going on.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, on that same note, what is what have you found to be effective in terms of ad campaigns?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know some people are like, okay, I I just run ad campaigns basically to my Instagram account, and then I let my organic content sell and nurture and do all of that.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know sometimes people set up ads for um like a freebie or a low-ticket offer, and then it funnels them into a high ticket or uh do people go straight to like a high ticket?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: I would say for high ticket because I've run ads for, like, for example, high ticket that's like over$10,000 offer and more.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And usually you don't run ads directly to this offer, you have a funnel.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing I'll say is when you're talking uh bigger high ticket, what tends to do pretty well, but this depends, of course, like it depends for everyone.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: But webinars are pretty good, whether it's live or pre-recorded.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll say live, it tends to do pretty well for high ticket in terms of uh of funnels.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: If your goal is to send like a high high-ticket offer after, uh, but if let's say you have a low-ticket offer, you could run ads directly to it.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it before, like low ticket, I would say um under$200, maybe low low ticket.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because above this, it would be considered like maybe like mid-ticket, and maybe you would need like a smaller offer to bridge.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it's possible, it's just gonna take more time.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, like honestly, you can run ads on anything.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even sometimes I'll do some clients, they want more uh followers, visibility.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll have like a small campaign that directs people on their Instagram page, uh, which is pretty good to bring followers, but uh usually you have campaigns as well meant to bring actual leads and sales directly and not just followers, if that makes sense.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that makes a lot of sense.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I was so curious if there was like I don't know.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like at one point it was like you have to run it to a freebie and then like do this whole this whole I don't know, like funnel through emails and stuff, but it sounds like it's a little bit different now, and you can kind of do what you want based on what your goal is.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it will change maybe like the timeline of how soon things start working, but that's super interesting.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, are you ready for some rapid fire questions?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, okay.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: What is the biggest meta ads myth?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the recent one I saw was you have to spend a hundred dollars a day.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I saw this recently, I was like, hmm, like that's not true.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can spend less, whether it's 20 or$30.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen like$15,$10.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want to put it out there that you don't have always to spend$100 per day.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, that's so much.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's like$3,000 a month.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then especially like if you need to pay someone to manage it, that's a lot too.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um wow, okay.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: What is one ad metric people care way too much about?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I would say interactions like comments.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not talking an ad where you're gonna say something like comment x to get blah blah blah like this.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you want to check comments, but an ad where you don't have this and people pay too much attention to interactions, like you would be surprised the amount of ads I've had.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for myself and for my clients, we have like two likes on the ads, yeah, but it brought like it brought like the most leads and sales.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like interactions doesn't mean that you're getting more results, yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's true for organic content too.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly okay, video or static ads.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I personally prefer static, but I'm probably biased because this is what works, it tends to work well better for me.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: But then for clients, I don't want to say like static are best because it really depends.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: For some clients, videos do better, but if I were to choose, I would say static, but that's a personal uh preference.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, love that.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what is one advertising tactic you wish would disappear forever?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um, I would say the fake countdowns on the sales page.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen those?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is so stupid.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Just you don't need that, just take it off.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's been running for like six months.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, I can't.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: You that is so messed up.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I just hate fake urgency in general, too.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you're a liar.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like when people are like this is sold out, I'm like, but you but it's not like what do you mean?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: You see, this is an example of crossing the line into manipulation.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Stop doing it, you guys.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Stop doing it.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's funny though?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone listening to this podcast, they're not doing that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys are not the problem.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: We need to find the people who are the problem, and they need to stop.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, finish this sentence.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Don't spend money on ads until until you have a proven offer and a website.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, proven offer and a website.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Easy.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: You guys can do that.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and then my last question for you is what is one piece of advice you wish you could give your younger self?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So this is gonna sound a bit weird, but I would say it's not because you're really good at something that you need to keep going, especially if you don't like it.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm saying this because we talked about my background in psychology.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a bachelor, but the initial plan was to get my PhD.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: So this was like way more years at school.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I came to a realization, okay, it's like, yes, I love studying this, the human brain, but not enough to like study this long.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so like I had excellent grades, I had what it take, what it took, honestly, to get into the PhD, but I just decided to stop after my bachelor because it I knew like I wanted to start my own business and get more into marketing.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: So even if I was uh really good at it, uh I decided to stop.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a hard decision back then.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like a failure basically.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but looking back, I'm really happy and yeah.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like, yeah, plans can absolutely change.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was gonna go to law school, I studied for the LSAT, and then I was like, I'm not doing it, I'm not gonna do it.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like sometimes you can get so far down a path that you feel like you're stuck, but you're not like you can change, you can pivot at any point in your life.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is like a side note tangent, but like I like my mom went back to school for her master's degree when I was in college, and like I loved watching her do that when she was so much older because it just made me be like, okay, like I can do whatever I want whenever.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's not I'm not too old, I'm not too young.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like you can do whatever you want.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I feel like when we're like at a young age, we feel this pressure, like, oh, I need to figure out.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I was in high school, I thought my whole life would be figured out by 25.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, pluck twists, no, no, seriously.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you just think it's gonna go one way, and it's just not gonna go that way.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that just keeps happening for your whole life.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm 28, so I could be so maybe that's not true, but like I think I think it just keeps happening.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh, for sure.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, awesome.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you have been lovely, Jade.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: We are going to obviously link your socials and your offers and all of that, but um, if you guys aren't following Jade, you really should be.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I love her organic content, she absolutely knows what she's doing, and we're just so grateful to have you on the podcast today.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll see you soon over on Instagram.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 40:06
  unknown: Bye.