Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #273_ The Laser Technology That Could Change the World — A Revolutionary Breakthrough in Nuclear Energy

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#273_ The Laser Technology That Could Change the World — A Revolutionary Breakthrough in Nuclear Energy · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: J.U., welcome to the show, man.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. My pleasure. So blessed to be here.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, yeah, we met at Rob Luna's event, what, about,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I guess that was about a month or two ago.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: We were doing a speaking event there, and he's been
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: telling me, Rob's a good friend of mine, he's been
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: telling me about you for a long time, because I've
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: been interviewing a lot of nuclear guys. He's like, you
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: have to check this dude out. And, um, and, uh,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: so here you are and, uh, I'm pumped, man, to
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: interview you.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: So very, very happy, um, to be here. And I
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: think my story will be different than many of your
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: other guys. Um, not military background, but I would say
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: a different background, but still being savvy and from the streets,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I would say is a key to kind of unlocking
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: this different path I took, I would say.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I, I, I love stories like this, people that
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: came from, you know, basically nothing or at least close
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to nothing and, uh, you know, really made something for themselves,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: you know, whether that's, you know, financially or, or through
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: business or military career or whatever. It's just a, there's
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: so many people out there victimizing themselves today that I,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: you know, it's, it's important to me to show people
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: that like, Hey, you don't, you don't have to come
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: from money to make money. You don't have to be
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: a superstar athlete to be a bad-ass. You like, you
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: can make shit happen.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: No, that was kind of my thesis growing up too.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I was never, I would say, sad for myself. I
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: would see some of my friends who lived in really
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: nice neighborhoods and I would go to public school with
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: them and I'll literally be jealous and I'll see everything.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: But I was never sad. I lived in a four-story
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: walk-up on the last floor. And, you know, in a
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: tenement building in New York, like, you know, when you
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: see West side story, the fire scapes and stuff like that's,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: that's what I grew up in. Um, and you know,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: it was a small three bedroom apartment with, with, um,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: you know, four kids there. And my parents, my mom
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: was a seamstress. Um, my dad was a carpenter. Um,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: he actually made French doors, which was pretty cool. Uh,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: but he would get up. I remember at 6 00
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: AM in the morning, take the train, um, up to
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the Bronx and then he'll make these French, beautiful French doors.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: And then my mom would go to the sweatshop essentially. So,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: you know, I am a sweatshop baby. And what that
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: means is she would literally bring me with her because
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: we couldn't afford daycare. And basically she would throw me
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: in this cardboard box with, and this is not a
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: typical cardboard box, it's like a massive... cardboard box that's
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: probably been transported from China. And they throw all these
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: kits in there, like a playpen. So literally, it will
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: be thrown in there. And we're all hanging out. And
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: some of these kids don't even speak English, probably. So
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I don't even remember. I just remember being thrown in there.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm playing with some random kids. But I think
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: what it built in me was I recognize, I would say, business, too.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: So my mom would make $ 0. 05 a zipper. Uh, you know, for,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: for like what, what I'm wearing right now for some pants.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And I remember watching her one day and she, she
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: was going really slow, right. With the, with the sewing machine,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: like buzzing, like, like, you know, moving it. And then
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: these other ladies besides her were like blasting, but she,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: I guess she was more scared. She was more, I
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: would say safe. Um, and I think that is almost
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: a foreshadowing of my future where I wasn't safe. I
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: was a risk taker. I'm a guy who goes all in.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: And she, so I asked her that question. I said, like, mom,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: why are you going so slow and the others are
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: going so fast? And they're like, oh, the others are
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: making a lot of money. I'm not making as much money.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So I was like, why don't you make more money?
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: And this is when I'm like three years old. So
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I've recognized at an early age, like certain things like
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: that may be, Planted a seed in me for the future.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: So I recognize that, I would say. At an early age.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to dig in a little bit more.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Before we do, though, let me give you, everybody gets
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: an introduction here.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: J.U., founder, executive chairman, and president of Nano Nuclear Energy.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Executive chairman and president of List Technologies, the only U.S.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: origin in patented technology for laser uranium enrichment. Started your
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: career as an analyst at Deutsche Bank on Wall Street,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: advocate for advanced nuclear energy and American innovation. Under your leadership,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: nanonuclear energy reached over $ 3 billion market capitalization and value,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: raised over $ 600 million to date, $ 1 billion of future
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: financing structured, and became Wall Street's Cinderella story of 2024
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: as the number one top IPO performer. That's fucking insane, dude. Congratulations.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: You have a degree in psychology and you've said, I'm
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: not supposed to be here.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about your life story, get into
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: all things nuclear, but Polymarket posted something pretty relevant to
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: what we're talking about here recently. So Polymarket says that
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: there is only a 4% chance that the US grants
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: a license for a new nuclear reactor in 2025? Do
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: you think it's possible that it happens in 2026?
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: There's so many, I would say, developments happening that could
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: possibly happen. So 4%, I would say it's kind of low.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I would probably push it towards 20%. But The larger
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: reactors that are being brought back, there's a chance that happens.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: But new, for a new company, I would say not
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: in the field where we're at, which is microreactors, but
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: for maybe some of these larger ones out there that
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not aware of, I would say.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: So you think there's a 20% chance that they'll approve
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: it by the end of 2025 or in 26? 26. No, 25.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's, it's already, it's already done. Um, but 26,
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: there is a chance just because. The current administration is
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: being so proactive and they're advocating. And even the secretary
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: of energy is saying under this administration, there will be
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: a nuclear Renaissance. So I feel like there's so much
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: momentum in this space and, you know, seeing some new nuclear.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: being granted, whether it's an old one that's being brought
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: back and given to some new player, or I don't
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: think any larger new ones will come online, but maybe
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: an existing one that will be given to a new player, potentially.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Gotcha. Gotcha. Do you know how many reactors we have
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that aren't working right now?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know exactly to that, but there's currently about
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: 94 civil nuclear reactors. in the U.S., and they bring
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: more back online, I would say. So it might be
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: a 95, 96 soon, but that was the last number
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I researched.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Right on. Right on. Well, a couple things to knock
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: out here real quick. Everybody gets a gift on the show.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: So you make nuclear reactors.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: I make gummy bears. Yes. I love gummy bears. Good deal.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: I love gummy bears. Thank you.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: And then I got a Patreon account. It's a subscription account.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And they're the reason that I get to be here
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: with you today.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I do is I offer
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: them the opportunity to ask every guest a question. And
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: this is from a former Navy nuke guy, Stephen Casey.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I'm a former U.S. Navy nuclear power operator of eight years.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: What is the realistic risk associated with large-scale SMR use?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: We had two years of intensive training before operating a reactor.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Nearly all nuclear accidents have been from a lack of
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: training slash disregarding safety protocols, which would seem to accelerate
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: with wide-scale SMR distribution. Recall Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: SL-1 in Idaho, a US Army reactor experiment. all of
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: which melted down based on failure to follow proper procedures.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: Is this level of training for an SMR going to
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: be sufficient to prevent an accident?
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, it will be. And also, we have to look
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: at the technologies here. The technologies for small reactors and microreactors,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: many of them are not using liquid coolants like the
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: big civil reactors like what Chernobyl and Fukushima, what happened there.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: So these reactors, the new nuclear technologies, they use fuel
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: like Triso, which we use at NanoNuclear, where it's coated
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: with essentially tank armor. And it passively cools. It can
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: never explode. So training will be in a different type
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: of level, I would say. But the safety profile is
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: totally different. For example, we're building our Kronos MMR on
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: the campus of the University of Illinois. And literally across
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: the reactor is dorm rooms, right? Wow. So to answer
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: his question, it's a totally different ballgame here, I would say,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: with new nuclear technologies, with microreactors. This is called a
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Gen 4 reactor. or the walk-away safe reactors, I would
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: call it.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: OK. OK. That's good. That's good to know. All right, Jay,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: so let's get into your life story. We got into
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: it a little bit about where you grew up. I
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: think we got to about three years old.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure. So I'll take it a step back. So
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: my parents are from a farm in southern China by
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Hong Kong, so in the tropical weather. Basically, I came
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: here when I was one years old. So I don't
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: even remember anything about China. I grew up on the
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Upper West Side of New York.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Why did they come here?
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: They came here for a better life. You know, China
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: is not the China back then. I remember my dad
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: saying to me, you know, when he was extremely poor,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: he would just eat rice and salt. Like having chicken
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: would be like, a luxury delicacy, right? So it was
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: really bad back then, I would say. But the China now,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: when he goes back, he's like, he wants to live
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: there because he speaks the language. Over here, he never
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: really took on English. He knows enough to get by,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: but because New York City, you could live in a
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: cultural bubble, right? So there's Chinatown, right? You just go,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: my parents literally would just go shop in Chinatown, pick
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: up the food, see doctors there, do all their living,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: day-to-day living there, buying things, medicine, pharmacies, and then just
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: bring it back to the Upper West Side. So that
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: culture didn't have to change for them. And New York
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: has that with the Latino community, with other cultures as well.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Like you could live in a cultural bubble. So my
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: parents really never learned full on English, even though they've
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: been here like 40 something years. Wow. Yeah.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Wow. So your dad would go back to China today,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you think?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's been back. He loves it there. Recently though,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: he's been diagnosed with early stage dementia. So he's kind
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: of rehabbing here and figuring things out. But yeah, he
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: wants to live in China. He just, he loves it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: It's the, it's, it's in a whole new world. I mean,
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: you go to some of these cities, they're more, um,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I would say technology savvy than the U S like
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: everything is at a fingertip. Um, everything, no one carries
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: cash anymore. Um, it's happening here, obviously. Cause what do
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: you think about that?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: A lot of people are worried about a cashless society,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: you know, Social credit score, all that kind of shit.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: That's all going on over there.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Well, then you add in crypto, right? So this whole
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: digital renaissance too is happening. And that hard asset, that cash,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: you would transact with merchants are fading, right? Everyone taps now.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: China's been tapping for a while. No one carries cash anymore.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: And he loves it out there just because certain areas,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: he like, he's, he's lived in certain villages and he
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: is cheap. Right. So he could live like a King
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: out there where over in Manhattan, it's so expensive, right.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: With inflation where out there it's kind of controlled, I
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: would say.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Right. What do you, I mean, what do you think
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: about that? Dad wants, wanted to go live in.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's, he's been living, he's been traveling out there.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: He'll ask me for some money. He was like, Hey son, like,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I'm having a good time out here. And you know what?
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: When I look back at his life too, he was
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: top of his class in high school. And then when
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: his teachers all said, hey, what college are you going to?
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: He said, I'm not going to college. My mom said
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I have to work. So he picked up a trade,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: which was carpentry. So he's always been a studious person.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Like every single day I see him reading the paper,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: reading books. And I felt bad for him growing up
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: because I know his potential would have been tremendous. He
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: could have been a scholar. But because of his circumstances,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: he had to pick up a trade. And now that
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: he goes back, he feels amazing. Like he could be someone,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I would say. So I supported him on that because
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: he put in the work. Um, to raise me and,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: and I never had a close relationship with him, I
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: think because of the cultural difference and my, I would say.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Chinese is basically kindergarten level. So I can never argue
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: with my parents. It's like, stop or like I'm hungry,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: you know, like I could never really get into it
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: with them.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: So that is fucking wild, man.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: So I, so I could talk about the foods I
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: like and things, but I could never get deep, like,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: emotionally connected with my parents. And I think that is
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: the issue with me being Americanized. It's just I lack that, like,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: understanding of their history. And they would tell me certain things,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: and I understood, you know, parts of it, but I
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: never understood the whole picture, I would say.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: If you spend any time hunting, you already know venison
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: is one of the cleanest proteins you can eat. It's lean,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: it's high in protein, and it's loaded with iron and
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: B vitamins. No feedlots, no confinement, none of the stuff
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: that comes with mass-produced beef. But the axis deer on
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Maui are in a different category of their own. Different animal,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: different environment, different diet, and you can taste it. It's cleaner, milder,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: far less gamey, and nutritionally impressive. Really unique meat. The
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: problem is, you can't just go out and get it.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: In most places, harvesting and selling wild game is heavily restricted,
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: if not outright illegal. That makes real axis venison almost
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: impossible to find. There's one company that's figured out how
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: to do it the right way, and that's Maui Nui.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I was actually introduced to them by my friend Peter Attia,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: and once I saw what they were doing, it made
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of sense. They harvest wild axis deer on Maui,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: process it immediately, and ship it to the mainland frozen.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: all under full USDA inspection. With beef prices climbing and
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: ranchers under pressure, I've been eating a lot more Maui Nui.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: The jerky sticks, the always summer sausage, the bone broth,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: all great. Extremely high in protein for the calories, no
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: added sugar, easy to work into daily life, and I
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: feel noticeably better when I'm eating it regularly. If you're curious,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: check out Maui Nui. It's spelled M-A-U-I. Maui, like the island.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: In N-U-I, Nui, which means big. I'm telling you guys,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: this stuff is the real deal. Go to mauinuivenison.com slash
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: SRS right now. So are you, would you consider yourself
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: close with your parents?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: No, of course I'm close, like with my mom and
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: my dad. But, you know, I just don't, because I
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: have to operate so many companies and my time, I
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: try to visit him. Like currently he's in the hospital,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: my dad, for the rehabbing from dementia. And also he
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: hurt himself recently. So he is getting older. So I'm
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: trying to visit him more, spend more time with him. And,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: you know, he really enjoys my time when I see him.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I think he'll ask me for like money. And I'm like, why?
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: You're in the hospital. Where are you going to? But
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I think he's like giving it to the nurses to like,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe he's like, yeah, scrub my balls or something.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know, right? But who knows? Who knows what's happening?
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, why do you need money? And he's like,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: just give me money. And then I think his early
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: dementia is kicking in. He'll say to me, He's like,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: are we going to have a barbecue tomorrow? And I'm like, yeah.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: What do you want? You want some sweet and sour pork?
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: You want some barbecue chicken? So I just play along
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: with some of the stuff he says. And I'm just
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: adding to the fun. I'm making him happy. All I
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: care about is just making the guy happy.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: That's cool, man. That's cool. So how did you, you
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: grew up in the Bronx.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: No, I grew up on the Upper West Side. He
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: worked in the Bronx. So I grew up on the
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Upper West Side. There's a movie out there called Little Manhattan.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: And it's about a kid who grows up pretty much
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: in a one mile radius of Manhattan. That's like my life.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: So I grew up on the Upper West Side. I
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: would say a few avenues away is Central Park. It's
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: close to a synagogue. And then I grew up with
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of Latinos. So early on, they would teach
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: me curse words, right? So I'll learn all these curse
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: words and we'll be at like the park or, you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: playing basketball or even manhunt in the Museum of Natural History.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty cool situation. Stickball on the street, right?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: So I grew up like that typical inner city kid And,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: but it got me in trouble. Like those words they
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: taught me in Spanish regurgitated to other Spanish kids. And
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: they're like, and I got into many fights. Cause I
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: remember one time I said something about your mother is dead.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: All right. It translated to something like that. And the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: guy was like, my mom is dead. And then I
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: was like, fuck. And then he waited for me to
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: jump me with like 10 other kids. So literally I
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: grew up like that inner city life. Um, and you know,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I think it built a lot of character in me. Uh,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I would never trade it now. Like I
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: really enjoy living and growing up in, in Manhattan and
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of people, how do you grow up in Manhattan?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: It's crazy. They are residential pockets of it, you know, um,
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: like the upper west side where it is more residential.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: There's not like skyscrapers everywhere.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I've always wondered what childhood would be like in Manhattan.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: You can't have any guns.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: That's why I don't live there.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, it's just like a whole other world to me.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I grew up out in the woods.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So were you into entrepreneurship business at a young age?
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, living in Manhattan, you have
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: that socioeconomic kind of separation, right? You see... Just moving
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: over one block, there's million-dollar homes, right? Condos, brownstones. And
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: you move two avenues away, it's tenement buildings, walk-ups, no elevators.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: And I call it railroad apartments where it's a long,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: narrow hall. And it's like, there's your kitchen. There's your bathroom.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: There's your first bedroom. And then it leads into another
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: small bedroom. So the discrepancy is always there. And this
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: is why I think there's a new mayor, right? Because
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: he's saying, hey, I'm going to try to fix that
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: discrepancy with the rich and the poor and give more
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: of that medium sense to people where they could have
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a better life, right? So I grew up in that
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: type of situation where I see kids having all these,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: you know, like luxuries and they could eat certain things
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: and I couldn't. And I would ask my parents, like,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: why can't I do that? But I realized that, look,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: you know, we just didn't have it financially, right?
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. What, go down a little rabbit hole, I mean,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: you live in Manhattan, right?
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: What is the sentiment about Memdani, you know? I think...
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I see a lot of people excited. I also see
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of people pissed.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I think initially there's that mad rush situation with anything
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: that happens that's new. And in the New York Post,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I was reading a ton of people are buying houses
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: in Connecticut because they're trying to get out now, especially
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: the ultra high net worth They're just trying to move
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: out because of the increased taxes, right? If you add 1%, 2%,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: that makes a huge difference to some of these larger whales,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I would call them. So there's this frenzy of buying
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: houses kind of in the surrounding tri-state area and getting
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: away from that. But at the same time, you know,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I was in that world, right? Like I was in
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: the world where my parents didn't have much money. So
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I recognize why people voted for him. Right. So people with,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: let's say where I'm at now there, I see why
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: also they want to run away now. Um, because they
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: think this is me too much, too much liberal things
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: going on. Like even the police already. Um, I mean, it's,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: it's been, it's been well known that they don't have
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: enough power anymore. Like people aren't scared of the police. Right.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: When I grew up, we're, we're, we're terrified. Like you're
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: smoking a joint somewhere on the corner, you're like, oh
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: my God, oh my God, I'm going to die. And
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: then not only that, your parents, you come from immigrant parents,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: they're going to whip your ass, you know? Like my mom,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: my dad will take it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Well, you were probably growing up right when Giuliani and
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Bernie Kerik were cleaning the city up, right?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, I remember Giuliani, when he was advocating for votes,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: he was out on a subway stop, I came out
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: and he's like handing out like vote for me. No shit.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I remember I was, I was, I was, I think
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I was in high school, like, or something, but I
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: remember all of that too. Um, you know, yeah. When
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: that all happened, you know, New York was a different place. Uh,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I remember, you know, I think, I think Bloomberg started
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: that like stop and frisk thing situation. And then And
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: then he went back when, I think he ran for
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: president recently, and he was like, oh, that was wrong
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: of me. But is it wrong? Like, you know, does
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: it make New York safer? You just have to think
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: about this stuff. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: What do you think? I mean, are you excited he's
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: in there?
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm always indifferent about things. I mean, I
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: don't like the fact that there will be higher taxes potentially. But,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: you know, like I said, I've been on both sides, so.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm indifferent. I have to see what he accomplishes. Like,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: I can't really rush to judgment right now. Yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Good way to be. Yeah.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, let's keep going with your childhood.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. So, you know, grew up on the Upper
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: West Side, went to junior high school, Columbus Academy, which
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: was 10 blocks away. Then went to high school called
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: High School for Environmental Studies. So maybe once again, there's
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: some type of foreshadowing there. And that was a mile away, right?
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: And after graduating, I felt like, you know what? I'm
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: just gonna work and go to school. That's what many,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I would say, New Yorkers do. They go to school
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: and work at the same. So they commute, right? They're
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: not going away to, you know, some universities and taking
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: out massive loans. Like I'd rather stay put, work, At
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the same time, go to a city college where it's
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: not that expensive. There's government subsidies. So that's what I did.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: But I took a long route. I started at one college, Baruch.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Wasn't ready for college, so I left. And also, I
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: think I just felt too poor in life. So I
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: ended up working three part-time jobs. So three jobs. And
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: then I realized I need that paper. I need that diploma.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I sucked it up. I actually ended up in community college.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: So you weren't like a phenomenal student or anything?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Not book smart at all. I really hated school. I mean,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I graduated with a C-minus average in psychology. And the
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: reason why I picked psychology is the easiest subject. So
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I literally wanted to just get the fuck out. Literally.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: A C-minus average?
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: C-minus average. I was like, let me get the fuck,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: let me get out, right? And... And I graduated, and
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, that's all I need, that piece of paper,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: because that's not going to determine my future. I'm going
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: to determine my future. And during that time, I would say,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: this is when I call it the matrix happened for me.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: And the matrix to me is being able to figure
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: things out and getting to where you want to get to,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: but doing it in a different angle, I would say,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: like a loophole, you could call it. I was going
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: to school at City College in Harlem of New York
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: and getting my C- degree out there. And then I
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: was working full-time at Columbia University, which is an Ivy League.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: So once again, that discrepancy there. So what I realized
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: when I was working at Columbia is value creation. So
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: value creation to me is what can you do for
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: that employer or that company to keep you or to
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: keep promoting you, right? So what I did at Columbia
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: is they had this archaic financial system there, like multiple systems,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: accounts payable, receivable, et cetera. And I learned every single
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: financial system, okay? And so when Columbia restructured their departments,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: They put a business manager in each one. And I
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: was about 21 years old, didn't finish college yet, so
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't even have my bachelor's degree. But I created
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: value for them because I knew all their systems and
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: how to operate that. So when they were restructuring, I
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: applied for that. But the requirements was a bachelor's degree
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: with three years of experience. Didn't have that, but I
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: created value because I learned all their archaic systems. So
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: they gave me a chance. They gave me the job.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: And my assistant actually had her master's degree.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Are you serious?
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. She was fucking pissed at me. She was like,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: who's this fucking young Asian kid? Is my boss now?
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: But I became the business manager of the history department.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And I see you have a ton of history here
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: of things. So I admire that. And because I created value.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And then what came with that is I get to
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: take classes for free in Ivy League. So I'm like, hold, wait.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: You're telling me I could be an Ivy leaguer, even
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: though I'm getting a C minus average up in City
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: College of New York and Harlem, right? It's only a
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: couple stops away, so it was close by. And then
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: at that point, you know, I was in charge of,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I think, a dozen people in the history department. They
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: all reported to a 21-year-old kid, but because I created
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: value and I knew all their archaic systems, and I
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: helped professors with their financial reporting as well, because they
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: all get these massive grants, right? And I was able to,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: you know, re like put them together, report it properly,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: and then also help, help with their travels and et cetera, expenses.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: So that part created value. And then the next part
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: is what I realized too, is at CUNYs or city
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: colleges in New York, you get the tier two, three jobs, right?
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: You get different companies recruiting these students from the tier two,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: tier three companies. Tier one companies go to the Ivy Leagues.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: And then I said to myself, I need to become
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: a student. The only reason? So I could get into
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the job database. So that's what I did. And this
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: is where the matrix happened for me. I was able
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: to convince... the dean to let me in, that I'm
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: going to take, this is after I graduate. I just
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: graduated my psychology degree, C minus average. He was like,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: you got a C minus average. Like, I can't let
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: you in here. And I'm like, look, I just want
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: to take a few classes. It's not a big deal.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: And then I got recommendations from the professors I worked for.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: So they all wrote me recommendations. So the dean's like, fine.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: So I started becoming a student. Obviously I'm going to fail. Like,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't care, right? I cared about the job, the
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: tier one jobs in there. And guess where that job
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: came from? Deutsche Bank, which is an investment bank at
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: 60 Wall Street in Manhattan. So I said, okay, I'm
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: going to apply for all these investment banking jobs. I
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: would literally make it to the top three of each one,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: but I had no experience, right? And then at Deutsche Bank,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: the managing director, I literally said to him, look, I'm
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: going to work harder than anybody out there on the
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: trading floor. I work full time. I went to school
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: full time. So hard work was nothing new to me.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to bust my ass. And I'll learn everything.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: It's a job. I'm going to do it every day.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get really good at it. I'll stay
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: last here. And he basically was like, I like it.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: And I graduated. I was probably like 24. So most
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: people graduate, what, 21, 22? I was 24. So it's
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: a bit older, but more life lessons, I would say,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: and work experience than just coming out of college.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: When you talk about the matrix, can you be a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: little more specific?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the matrix to me is figuring things out,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: but doing it in a way where it's reachable. Like
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: for me to get that job on Wall Street, What
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: happened to me is I grew up in Manhattan, so
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I said, where do you make money? Where's all the
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: money coming from? Wall Street. So how do I get there?
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: So you figure out the goal and reverse engineer how
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: to get there.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly. You just have to figure out how to get there,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: but do it in a way where it's actually doable,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: like the way I've done it. And this is why
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I say I shouldn't be here, just because I figure
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: things out. And I had friends too, for example, this
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: was a slick thing on resumes. They went to school
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: four years, but they never graduated. But the employer thinks
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: you graduated. But they could have gone part-time for four years, right?
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: So they'll submit their resume. And a lot of these
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: banks at the time, I mean, maybe back then, I
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: don't know about now, but they wouldn't even check. I
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: think their HR departments, oh, they have four years at
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: this college? All right, that means he has his degree.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: They'll let him in. And some of my friends would
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: get jobs too on Wall Street because they put four years.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: No shit.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't do that. I did it differently, but
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I got my C-minus average. So they didn't graduate, but
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I did. So yeah, I was there from up till 2009.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: This is when the big bank meltdown happened and the
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: financial crisis. I mean, I think Citibank was a dollar
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: a share. Everyone was losing money. It was a recession.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: So I left. I saw my bonuses and my pay
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: pretty much vanish. So I had to reinvent myself.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: How did you do that?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: So in 2009 left, I saved up some money and
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: essentially started investing into startups and seeing how these startups
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: over time were being built. And I think that's where
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: I learned how to build a company.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: What kind of startups were you interested in?
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: For example, it'll be very diversified. I didn't know what
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I was doing, right? So I would just put small
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: amounts of money, like 10 grand, 20 grand into certain things.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: But the real experience I learned from that was, you know,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: when you lose, you don't lose the lesson. So, you know,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: many startups fail. Let's admit that. But mainly what I
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: realize is the egos of the founders. Also the capabilities.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: The egos of the founders?
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: When I say that is founders, when they raise a
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: certain amount of money, their heads get big. They get
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: their 15 minutes of fame and they think, oh, I
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: made it. But to me, that's just the first step.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: You got to keep going. But many of these founders
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: that I've invested in, they had the egos. They didn't
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: have egos before, but once they got money, it changed them.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: And they became bad operators. They weren't genuine with what
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: they actually say they're going to do. Right. So I
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: think that is one of the issues I've seen on
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: how many of these startups fail is the egos of
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: the founders or the executives. They won't listen anymore. They
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: don't care about their shareholders, what they say. They're just
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: going to do whatever they want to do, right? And
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: some of them even commit fraud. Some of them buy
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: cars for themselves, do things. I mean, this is how
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: it works, right? Like if your intentions aren't good from inception...
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: It's never going to be good.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: What else do you look for in founders?
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I look for integrity. Their story, too, is important about
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: their life, I would say. And it's not even about
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: track record. It's more about their integrity and what they've
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: gone through, like myself, right? And who surrounds them, too,
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: like talking to some of their other executives. If they're
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: like buddy buddies and they don't really care how you
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: feel in the future, like you could sense these things.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: And this is where I guess I have a good
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: knack for that. I have a good knack with meeting
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: someone in the first five minutes I could tell who
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: they are. I mean, I could tell from their voice.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: You know when you meet people and you've sensed like
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: they're fake? I could sense that, and I lose interest
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: really fast with people like that. But you could sense
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: these things. You could ask certain questions. And you've been
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: part of some agencies that interrogate things, right? So these
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: subtle type of things, like, oh, you said that you
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: raised $ 100, 000, and you put $ 50, 000, but now you're but
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I realized you didn't put that money in. So, you know,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: these little clues, like, you'll just talk to them over
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: dinner or a drink, and they won't connect, right? These
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: certain little lines they say to you in the beginning
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: won't connect the second or third time you meet them.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Gotcha.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: So founders is integrity, egos, right? You got to stay humble,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: even if you raise a lot of money or do things.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: And I think that's why I've been successful is because
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: I say what I'm going to do. And also I'm
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: a genuine person. I'm probably a guy where if we
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: do a handshake deal, I'll honor it. That deal, right?
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Like there's very few people, I think, in this world
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: that would do that these days. Like everyone cares about themselves. Yeah.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: And I care more about the longer term than the
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: short term.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: It's like a long play.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yes. I'm in it for the long haul.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: And this is where also, you know, transitioning into nano,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: we could talk about that. I absolutely want.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: To talk about that. The number one IPO of 2024. Yes,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: we're talking about that.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you a little bit about that too. I
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: don't blame a lot of the people who bet against
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Nano because if you look at it from their perspective,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: you have this big Asian guy from New York City,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: public school kid, never took a company public from inception.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: And out of nowhere, he's building nuclear reactors, impossible. So,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: you know, what happened is a ton of hedge funds
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: bet against us. Uh, and they said, no way this
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: is happening. And, but they don't understand my history. They
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: don't understand. I came from nothing. So I have nothing
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: to lose, right? Like I have something to prove. I
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: have a legacy to build my CEO who I recruited, uh,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: He went to the top boarding school in the UK.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: He was poor. How did he get there? He wrote
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: his own essay to get in. His IQ is off
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: the charts. He's a nuclear physicist, engineer, worked in nuclear subs,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: minister of defense, worked at Rolls-Royce. So he has everything.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: But they bet against us because they're like, this is
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: not possible. These guys are going to do this. But
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: they don't understand that we work till 4 a.m. in
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: the morning while they're all.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: I would say we're, we're, we're grinding. We're, we're, we're,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: we're cut from the same cloth. We're going to battle. We're,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: we're warriors. Right. Um, and they underestimated nano. And I
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: think what happened is they bet against us and, you know,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: our stock ran. And I think, uh, we were up
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: like six, 700%. We were the number one IPO performer
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: in America. And if we shocked the world and, And
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: not only that, like all these institutional guys, money, banks,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: they started looking at us different. They're like, wait, the
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: people joining them and the things they're doing, there's something
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: here because why would these former US national leaders be
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: joining Jay and James, right? And how's this possible? Like,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: how are these generals joining these guys? Like, It's because
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: when I meet them, I could do a handshake and
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I honor my work and I've delivered. So that is
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: kind of what I'm built about. And even my CEO,
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: when I recruited him, he told me I was crazy.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: He said, you know, I changed countries and industries and
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: you're bringing me back into nuclear? He's like, there's no
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: money in nuclear. And I said, No, I think, you know,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: there's a certain area in nuclear, micro-reactors, which is categorized
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: as 20 megawatts or less. There's no commercial micro-reactor in
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: the world. So if we're able to jump in, we
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: could make some noise there. And, you know, what I
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: realized about nuclear physicists and engineers is they're almost like
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: doctors where if there's a dying person in front of them,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: they're going to help them. But their curiosity of building
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: something is what drives them. So he naturally said, okay, I'll, I'll,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: I'll take this leap of faith with you. And ever
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: since then, he's like, thank you. You know, like you
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: changed my life. Um, and you were right. I, I
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: didn't see something that, that, that you saw. Uh, but
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: what I saw at the time is I saw solar
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: and wind. Um, especially many stocks, they were tapering off.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: They were already really high. Government subsidies have boosted them.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: And all these countries that we're talking about net zero goals,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: by 2035, 2040, how are you going to get there
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: without nuclear? That was my thesis. I was like, I
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: don't get how all these countries are going to reach
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: these net zero goals and decarbonize their countries without nuclear.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: And then this is where kind of the aha moment
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: when I brought in my number two, we said, this
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: is where we're gonna focus on. And then I could
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: tell you what happened next.
• 44:50
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• 44:53
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• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Real quick, before we go into what happened next, I'm just,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, so you must have made a substantial amount
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: of money through your, I mean, were you with a
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: VC firm or were you private?
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: No, I was just by myself. Yeah, I mean, I
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: was able to, what I was really good at is
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: picking trends in the future. So one trend I was
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: very heavily involved was cannabis, the rise of cannabis, right?
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: In New York City, every corner has like a cannabis
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: store now, but back then everything's illegal. So what happened
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: here was in Canada, there was a tremendous amount of
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: companies that were going public up in Canada. And I
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: invested in many of those companies that were, you know,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: pre IPO or private companies. So I had that knack,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I would say, of predicting that as well. And then Um,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: and then in the meantime, I was investing into other companies, biotechs,
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: but once again, many of them failed, but the ones
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: that I picked, like the sector focused ones, there were
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: many of them would succeed. Not all of them, but
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: many of them would succeed. And then for example, gold,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: when gold was 900 an ounce, I, I, I, I
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: actually liked the price of gold at that time. Now
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: we reached over 4,000 an ounce, but I remember I
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: was in, um, and I was with a hedge fund
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: buddy of mine, and we were in the richest area
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: of London, which is called Mayfair. And I was like,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: I really like it, but I'm tired of writing a
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: check to these companies and not knowing, and then the
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: executives can't execute and operate. So I was able to
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: convince him to put a structured deal together. He was
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: able to find an asset up in Canada. We raised
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: money and took it public. And it was called Mayfair Gold.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: So I think right now it's still worth, you know,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: 300 something million. We've raised over 100 something million. Oh, shit. And,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: you know, there's been a tremendous amount of interest now
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: in that. You know, so I've always had a knack
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: for picking, I would say, sectors. But when I turned
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: 40 and this whole nuclear thing, like I had this
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: feeling about nuclear, I said, you know what? I'm tired
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: of writing checks to people. I'm going to invest in myself.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: And when I used to... go with some of these
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: company executives to, they call it non-deal roadshows or deal roadshows,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: meaning they're raising capital or they're marketing their company. I
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: was never impressed by these guys. I would go and
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: they'll raise all this money. And I'm like, that's it? Like,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: this is what I'm up against? And I said, I'm
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: going to build, I think I could build the company
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: better than these guys. And, you know, My thesis was right,
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: but it takes a lot of work. It takes a
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: lot of human capital connection. Like for instance, let's go
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: back to nano. You know, I looked up which universities
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: in the world are top in nuclear engineering. And I
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: flew to UC Berkeley and I met with the chair
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: of the department. at his favorite cafe on campus. And
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, I want to build a microreactor.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: And I'll pay you for it. But, you know, you
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: just have to believe in me and join me. And
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: I was able to sell him on this idea. And
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: because he's so, like I said, nuclear engineers are so inquisitive.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: They're like, okay, we'll see. We'll see what you could do.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: So I was able to bring the chair of that
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: department on. Then I said, okay, with my capital markets background,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, you see a lot of these
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: biotech companies, they have one drug and if they don't
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: make it to the FDA approval, it tanks the whole company.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to diversify or hedge myself. So I
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: went to Cambridge in the UK and I met the
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: chair of that department. And I said, Hey, I want
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: to build a microreactor. I want to hire you. Two
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: different designs, which will be hedged in case something happens,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: one or the other doesn't succeed, right? So we put
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: world-class technical teams together. And then I was able to
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: raise the seed capital from the former C-level executives of UPS,
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: the largest transportation company in the world. And I said, look,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: we want to make nuclear energy scalable, transportable. And they said,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: we know transport, um, but they knew nothing about nuclear.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: So what, what they did is they went to Morgan
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Stanley and they talked to their energy desks and they
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: said to Morgan, tell us everything about nuclear, small nuclear. What, what,
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: what do you like about it? And they basically helped us. They,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: they said, you know, we're bullish on nuclear. We see
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: great things for coming. Um, and small nuclear is, is rising. There's,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of buzz about it. So I was
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: able to now get my seat money to pay these,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: these world-class technical guys to, to start designing and structuring
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: and developing, um, the micro reactor designs. Right. Uh, so
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: that's how I was able to get these world-class people. Um,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: but once again, it took a lot of my. I
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: would say human capital convincing. And I think these days,
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: what I did, people are copying now too. So I
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: see a lot of now new nanos popping up all
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: over the place. Like every single week, there's like a
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: new nano, right?
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: So were you the first one in the space?
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: We were the first one to be publicly listed. OK.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: So microreactors have been around for decades. we're looking to
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: commercialize it, right? Like, remember, there's no commercialized microreactor in
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: the world. So that was a new frontier. So we
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: were the first publicly company to be listed as a
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: vertically integrated microreactor.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay. I mean, what, so we kind of, you know,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: you talked about net zero and renewables and green energy
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: and all that. But what got your interest specifically in microreactors?
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so number one, for the business side, was there
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: was no commercial microreactor. Number two was there's a lot
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: of historic data around different types of microreactors. And then three,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: my CEO said, had a lot of connections also with
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: his previous like nuclear kind of networks about that. So
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: we decided to focus on that because the use cases
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: are way different than civil nuclear reactors, right? If you're
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: able to transport and scale nuclear, think about island communities, right?
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Northern communities in Canada that run on diesel, right? So
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: essentially replacing diesel generators, right, with consistent base load energy.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: Think of natural disaster release, being able to bring it in.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Think about military deployment, right? If you think about what's
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: happening these days, especially in Russia and the Ukraine, it's
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: a new frontier. You have drones fighting. And how are
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: drones powered, right? Energy is the X factor these days, right?
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: And then you see Russia right now hitting all the
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: energy systems in Ukraine, right? If you're able to bring
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: a transportable microreactor, right, you have energy in different locations.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: So this helps democratize energy across the world, but also
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: it helps lift humanity. So if you think about Africa,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Africa was a use case for us. the whole continent
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: has no national grid, right? So you have a lot
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: of these remote communities, right? But if you think about
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: uplifting humanity there, there's certain areas that have no hospitals.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: You know, you could bring in a microreactor and now
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: you have desalination. You could build hospitals. You could, there's
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: so much you could do, right? Water, right? So all
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: of this is an X factor and, This was the
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: thesis too, besides the net zero goals of all these
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: countries is lifting up humanity, um, being able to bring
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: energy to the front lines of different situations. Like right
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: now the army is, is, has a massive program. They're
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: launching a whole microreactor program funding that. Right. So the
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: world is changing. Um, military is changing nano. this year
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: also won a direct to phase two award with the
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: closest joint military base in DC.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: And they want to be able to have energy off grid.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: So in case something happens. So they're looking at our,
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: we call it Kronos MMR, which is micro modular reactor.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: And we're doing a feasibility study there now, which we
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: won that award. And we're looking at certain areas on
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: the base where we could install that for them. And
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: they're very excited about this. We're very excited about this.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: But that is going to be a use case for
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: us for the military aspect as well.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Wow. I mean, did the AI race or any of
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff put an impact into your decision
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: as well?
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Yes. I mean, we didn't know this was all going
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: to transpire like this with AI data centers and all
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: the big tech companies pouring in.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: You didn't know this back then?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: I mean. So this is, holy shit. Yeah, this was
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: just a perfect storm. This is a rare situation where
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: you have government backing everything. You have the giant tech
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: companies pouring in because of AI and data centers, and
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: then you have now also a new generation of technology
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: that's come on that's walk away safe, that can never explode.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: So it's just this marriage of this opportunity and time, right?
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: It's just a rare situation. And once again, this is
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: where the matrix happens. And I believe there's a higher
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: power pushing Nano too. And what I mean by that
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: is there's certain things that it's almost like no coincidence
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: that happens while I was building Nano. For instance, my
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: last name is Yu. And I built Nano in my
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: last office on the 38th floor. If you put that together, U-3-8,
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: or as commonly known as U-3-0-8, which is uranium, okay? Wow.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Which is, you know, the fuel for these reactors, right?
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: And then when we go public, our stock, you know,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: we did an IPO at $ 4 a share. Our stock
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: goes from $ 4 to $ 38. So this 38 number has
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: been following me. And then, and if you know Chinese culture,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: we like eights, right? Eights, eights, right? And so 38's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: been following me. And then Nano was able to acquire
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: out of bankruptcy a leading microreactor technology that went bankrupt.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: It didn't go bankrupt because of the technology. It went
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: bankrupt because the biggest funder passed away. And he was
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: a former CIA guy. His name was Richard Helms, I believe.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: And I don't know where he got the money, but
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: he funded that company like $ 130- something million. And he passed away,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: and his family, I believe they didn't care about nuclear.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: So it was an opportunity for us now. We came in,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: bought that technology, and it leapfrogged nano now. to becoming
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: one of the leaders, if not the leader in microreactor
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: technology in the world. And it came with, guess what?
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: 38 issued and pending patents.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Are you serious?
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: This is what I'm saying. There's just been so many
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: crazy things that happened that it's unbelievable. And now, so
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: when people attack us early on, and we were the
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: number one IPO performer, I just put my head down
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: and work because I know it's going to work out
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: itself for some reason. Like it's so crazy. Um, there's
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: just been so many things that it's just unbelievable. Let
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: me add, um, that movie Oppenheimer, you know, it came out,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: I think it won a ton of awards. I don't
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: know if you watched this, but this is another goosebump
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: moment for me. I was watching it and Oppenheimer, you know,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: He helped build the first atomic bomb, right? Where did
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: he recruit his scientists from? UC Berkeley and Cambridge. It
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: gave me goosebumps. I was like, get the fuck out
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: of here. Like Oppenheimer did this? I didn't even know.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: I knew nothing about, I don't even read about Oppenheimer.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Like I just did things myself, right? So these are
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: the little things that are like so freaky. I'm just like,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: it's almost unbelievable. And then what's unbelievable is, you know,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: within a year and a half, we raised, since inception,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: over $ 600 million. I mean, we go from an unnamed
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: group of guys and company, like they're not real. They're
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: not doing this to now being one of the leaders
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: and now having the money to make this happen. It's
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: not about if we're building it. It's about when now. Right.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: So we shocked the world and, and many of these
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: nuclear guys are now looking at us different because they're like, wow,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: nano's a real player now. Um, and not only that,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: like once again, we recruited world-class technical teams, but also
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: former us national leaders. Like our chair of our advisory
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: board is Rick Perry. Right. Former secretary of, of, um,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: energy under the last Trump administration. And then I hired
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: the former CFO of the Department of Energy. And then
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: I brought in a four-star general, Wesley Clark, former Supreme
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Ally commander of NATO forces, right? And then I brought
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: in General Terry Rubling. He was head of the Marines
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: in the Asian Pacific. And apparently he is the real
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: life Top Gun, not Tom Cruise, okay? So, you know,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: We brought so many high level people to the table
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: and everyone's just like in awe and they're shocked because
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: we came in and I felt confident guiding the company
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: post IPO because we have that grit. We just have
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: that warrior spirit. And I think it's from the history
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: and the upbringing I had. I mean, it's just an
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: all in type of mentality, right? I grew up with
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: nothing like, Like, what are you doing against this? It
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: means nothing to me. I'm just going to put my
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: head down and build, right? Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: Damn. That is fucking impressive, man. Congratulations.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: Wow. Are you guys talking about sending some of these
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: mini reactors up to space, too?
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I mean, that's part of, you know, the
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: whole type of new frontier, right? Mm-hmm. I think with
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: SpaceX and with all these rocket companies going into space
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: and raising tons of billions of dollars as well, one
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: of the issues is energy. If you're able to bring
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: a scalable nuclear reactor and a transportable one to, let's say,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: the moon, and that's one of the mandates too. I
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: think under this administration, they announced recently They want to
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: put a reactor on the moon. They want to be
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: the first country to do that. I mean, you're going
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: against Russia and China, right? So they're trying to, they
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: announced they want to focus on that. And our reactor
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: design is perfectly for that. We have a design, we
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: call it Loki, that could go up there and be
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: on the moon.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: How many different reactors do you have?
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: So we have a portfolio of reactors. I call it,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I would say large, medium, and small, but the large
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: still being small, okay? So our large one is called Kronos.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: It's a 15 megawatt electric output and 45 megawatt thermal.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: And then we have- What.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: Does that mean?
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: That means it could power 15 megawatt electric. I would
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: say it could power maybe 15,000 homes.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: And then- Loki is between one to five megawatts. And
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: then we have our Zeus reactor, which was developed by
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: the University of Illinois professors that I recruited. And that
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: design is, to me, it's probably the most simplest design
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: in the world. And that is going to be under
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: one megawatt. So that is used for the military is
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: really interested in that, because that could be deployed in
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: the front line to power the drones, to move the camps,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: the military bases. So yeah, we have a portfolio. And
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: they're all, I would say, called high gas temperature reactors.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: And so we keep the same type of designs, and
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: we kind of flow it down. And what that means
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: is we also use that trisophyll. So trisophyll, actually, the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: government poured billions of dollars into R & D into it.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: So many of these companies now that are developing microreactors
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: or SMRs or small modular reactors, they're all using that
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: type of same combination, like high gas temperature reactor with triso,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: because it makes the most sense and Um, and it
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: seems like many of these other larger companies are also
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: doing that as well. And, and remember Triso, it's coated
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: with pretty much tank armor. It, it, it can never explode.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: It just passively cools, right? If anything happens, this is
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: like an auto shutdown. Um, you shoot a rocket at it.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: The field doesn't explode. Again, it could, it could, it
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: could crack, but they never chemically kind of interact with
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: each other and And that's why we call it walk
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: away safe. Um, so we, when we acquired, uh, the
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: technology from bankruptcy, it came with two demonstration sites, one
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: partner with the university of Illinois. We reestablished that. And
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: recently we also broke ground there. We had a ceremony
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: with the university and, um, they're very happy that, you know,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: we're bringing this project back to life. So we broke
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: ground and we're planning to submit a construction application with
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in Q1 of 2026. Wow. Yeah,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: so what that means is hopefully within a year, a
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: year and a half, we'll be able to pour concrete
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: and steel and start building the reactor. And the reactor
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: is buried on campus. And like I said, right across
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: the street from the reactor is dorm rooms. So this...
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: is why we call it walkaways. And you think that
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: university would allow that situation to happen if they didn't
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: know from their experts that this is actually safe.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Right. So this is a whole new world, a whole
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: new nuclear technology, and people have to kind of, you know,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: rewire their minds about nuclear now.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think, what do you think
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: that unleashing nuclear, what's gonna happen? Are we gonna hit
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: a golden age? Because everybody, I've talked, you're not the
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: only nuclear guy I've talked to.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: Everybody's gung-ho about it.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: And, you know, and everybody's super gung-ho about, it seems
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: like this administration's getting rid of a lot of the
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: red tape that it's been holding in this sector back
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: for a long fucking time.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: You know, so what, I mean, I guess, first question,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, are you obviously, obviously you wouldn't be in
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: it if you didn't think the red tape was disappearing.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: So what, I mean, what does this unleash? What is
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: going to change in everyday Americans' lives?
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: I think you have to look at the whole kind
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: of supply chain of things, right? You have now AI
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: and data centers being built. That's going to take years.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not going to be built overnight. And
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: these are massive infrastructures, right? Like Amazon's pouring tens of
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: billions of dollars into this. Meta, Google, you know, Oracle.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of these players are looking at nuclear
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: as an option. And NVIDIA with Jensen Huang, He recently
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: said also that a lot of these small reactors are
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: going to come online with these data centers, right? So
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: let's look at that whole kind of cycle. You have
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: energy is the X factor, right? It is the bottleneck
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: right now. So with these small reactors, you're able to
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: now create all this data centers and AI and or
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: be a part of the situation, right? But you're able
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: to do that. How is it going to impact? How's AI?
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: We're hearing it every day. How's AI going to impact
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: our lives? So you need the energy to create the AI, right,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: in order to deliver it and change our lives. So
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: you have this kind of whole cycle here. But once again,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: the X factor is energy. So if you're able to
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: create a scalable environment factory-fabricated situation where you can mass-produce nuclear,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: you have that baseload energy. It's carbon-free. And then you
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: can deploy it off-grid, right? So you don't have that
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: burden on the grid anymore, right? You want to build
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: a data center? Bring it anywhere. I recently came back
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: from speaking at the largest energy conference in the UAE
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: in Abu Dhabi. I was approached by a company wanting
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: to build data centers in the desert. How are you
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: going to do that? Only way to do that is
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: with nuclear, right? So that is how crazy things are moving.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: And the world is catching on to this, right? You
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: have now the Middle East very interested in this because
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: they know oil is finite, right? If they want to
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: let's say they want their hands around energy in the future,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to invest in nuclear. So there
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: is a lot of interest from the Middle East right
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: now with small reactors. The UAE just built, I believe,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: five of them. So nuclear reactors, right? So they're all
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: coming online too. And they're all kind of changing their mindset.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: Like we can't just focus on oil anymore.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: Wow. The Middle East is.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, what about, I mean, so I know,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: you know, an abundance of energy will jet launch artificial intelligence,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: but what about production costs, transportation costs, you know, we
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: were talking about, you know, space, all that kind of shit.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, what is a numbers guy, Wall Street guy,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you would have a lot more
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: insight than I would have, but I would, I mean,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: If un-nuclear is truly unleashed and we have an overabundance
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: of energy, I mean, that would, it is my understanding
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: that would throw us into some type of a golden age.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, great, great point there. I think this is why
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: micro-reactors are very important because let's say with our Kronos MMR,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: every piece of it is modularized. So we could produce
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: this in a factory, right? And it adheres to road
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: weight limits, right? Every piece of it. And the biggest
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: part is vessels in nuclear reactors. That's the largest piece.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: We're able to design this and mass produce this in
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: a factory. Kind of like the gigawatt factory with Tesla, right?
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: Like that is the mindset you need in order to
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: get that golden age of nuclear. because some of these
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: other small reactors are still really big, right? Where you
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: can't just mass produce every single piece. But with a microreactor,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: you're able to do that and you're able to transport it.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: And with our Kronos, it's buried. So the surface of
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: it will be a certain finite amount. And then on
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: the bottom, we're able to connect the reactors. almost like
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Lego blocks, right? Boom, boom, 15 megawatts. So we can
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: actually scale to one gigawatt if we wanted to. And
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: right now there's a tremendous amount of interest from AI
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: data centers and large infrastructure companies to partner with us
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: to co-locate some of that with our design, right? And
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: also the resilient part of it is If one reactor
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: dies and you have multiple, those keep going. So you
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: never lose energy. Wow.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: So this is blowing people's minds because now, and this
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: is also great for the military as well, right? If
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: you get hit by a missile or something and it
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: takes out one of our reactors, but you have multiple,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: the other ones are running still. So you're never going
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: to lose energy, right? So, and this is what you
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: need with a lot of these data centers because you
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: can't have any downtime like that. So a lot of
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: them are looking to co-locate. And this is why you
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: have the big tech companies investing now and partnering with
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of these companies.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Interesting. Well, Jay, let's take a quick break. Sure.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: No problem. Pick up right where we left off. Most
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• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: we're back from the break. I want to get into
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: what you're doing now with LIS technology. So it looks
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: like you're doing some type of laser enrichment with uranium,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: which I know nothing about. So what sparked this one?
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think... I'm almost drooling at this is because,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I, once again, I kind of saw this,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: you know, in the past, but okay. Everyone right now
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: is building these glorious reactors. So to me, everyone has
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: a Ferrari, but they have no gas for the Ferrari.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: And this is where LIS kind of comes in here.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: LIS actually stands for laser isotope separation technologies. That's why
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: we named it LIS Technologies. And in the very beginning,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: I wanted this technology in nano. But because it poses
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: a proliferation and national security risk, we have to separate
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: the companies. But in reality, we just wanted the company
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: in nano. Every management figure in LIS has to get
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: a queue clearance, for example. And the reasoning for this
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: is we're dealing with enrichment. And what is enrichment? Okay,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: so I'll take you through kind of the cycle of
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: the fuel. So you take uranium ore or yellow cake,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: which you mine, and you have to convert it into UF6,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: which is the gas. And then this is where enrichment
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: comes in. The world currently uses centrifuges. And this is
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: why Putin is He controls about, I believe, 40% of
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: the world's enrichment. So that means he has a ton
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: of centrifuges. The US, you know, because the nuclear infrastructure
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: here essentially has been atrophied and we were the largest
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: exporter of nuclear services and fuels back then. We're now
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: the biggest importer, right? Because the US didn't invest into
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: this in so many decades. So now... with the nuclear
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: renaissance happening, you have to build back the actual infrastructure
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: to support these reactors, right? And we don't have that yet.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: We're building there, but we don't have that yet. So
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: when I was looking at building nano, I said, okay,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: one of the issues is going to be fuel and
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: the enrichment side. So centrifuges is the second generation of enrichment.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: The first generation is gas diffusion. The second is centrifuges,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: and the third, or the holy grail I call it,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: is laser uranium enrichment, okay? And what that means is
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: you're able to take a laser and excite to the
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: isotope level for enrichment, right? So for us, let's break
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: this down. Civil nuclear reactors, they use 5% fuel, up
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: to 5% enrichment of the fuel, okay?
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: Small nano reactors go up to 10% and SMRs also
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: with other microactivity go up to 20%. And that's called HALU, H-A-L-E-U,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: high assay, low enriched uranium. That's up to 20%. LEU
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: is up to 5%, low enriched uranium. And then when
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: you go beyond that is weapons grade and is then
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: considered HEU or high enriched uranium, which is used for
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: guess what? Submarines. aircraft carriers and nuclear bombs, right?
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: So this is why we have to move lists out.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: It's because it poses a national security risk because technically
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: we could keep going to that 99%. We're not looking
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: to do that. We're looking for only civil use of this,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: meaning the LEU and the HALU percent, up to 20%.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: Essentially in a single stage of the laser process, we
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: could enrich the 5% in two stages to up to
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: 10% of HALU, and then we could keep going. Right.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: So the, what happened recently is Israel and the U
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: S bombed Iran. Remember what were they doing enriching because
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: the U S and Israel's scared, they're going to rich
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: past the 20% and they're going to keep going.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: So this is the same type of security profile LIS
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: is going to have. You know, what I did with
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: LIS is early on I engaged all the regulatory bodies
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: in the U.S. and said, look, it's me, J.U. from Nano.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not some other guy who didn't grow up in
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: New York City. It's just me. I want to build
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: this company, and I'm willing to hand you the keys
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: to the laser room or whatever we're doing. We just
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: want to build the technology. And I truly believe we'll
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: be able to do this in a way where we
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: could scale it commercially because that's been kind of the
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: issue in the world is it could work in a lab,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: but the scalability of these lasers and for this enrichment,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: no one's really done before. So the history of LIS
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: is also kind of crazy. It could be made into
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: a movie. So LIS, the origin of this is Dr.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: Jeff Erkins, he's 94 years old now. He actually drives
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: a car still. And I told him, don't drive, just
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: take an Uber. But he doesn't even know how to
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: use it, get Uber, you know? So he's 94 and
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: he has some freaky genetics and DNA, but his story
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: dates back to World War II. He's Dutch, but he
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: was put into a concentration camp in Indonesia. And between
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: 10 to 12 years old, he had to serve hard labor.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: Like he thought he was going to die. What happened
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: next is the bomb dropped and it ended the war.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: And what it did to that little kid is he
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: dedicated himself to learning everything about the atom. So then
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: guess where he went? UC Berkeley to get his PhD.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: So it was almost like full circle again, UC Berkeley.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: And now think of back to the future you know
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: the mad scientist in his garage building the car right
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: uh that's what jeff erkins did he built a whole
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: test loop of the laser in his garage and the
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: craziest thing is the u.s government didn't stop him so
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: he was technically enriching small amounts of this in his
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: garage and there will be other nuclear experts that i've
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: encountered that went to his garage and said, I couldn't
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: believe the government's allowing him to do this, but also
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: the damn thing worked. So what happened next is there
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: was a big company up in Canada. It's called Chemical.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: They're publicly listed as well. I think they're like $ 30,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: $ 40 billion company. They actually funded his technology up in Canada.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: And this was the late 80s and early 90s. And
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: then what happened next is for them to fund the
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: next phase of this was going to cost a lot
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: of money. And then Russia, the iron curtain fell. They
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: had to support their economy by selling cheap and rich
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: uranium to the world. So they decided not to continue
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: with advancing his laser technology. So he took his lasers,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: all his paperwork, and put it in storage in UC Irvine, California.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: We took it out of storage and LIS was created.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 2: It is the only US origin and pen to technology.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: So this is a made in America technology. And to me,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: it's a critical technology. It's the critical technology because once again,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: it could provide the enrichment technology for the whole fuel cycle,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: which is needed drastically here in the US. So that's
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: one of the bottlenecks, which is the fuel side. So
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: this is why LIS with nano is vertically integrated. And
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: this separates us from all the other reactor companies. And
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: so having our own fuel at a cheaper cost than
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: anyone else separates us.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: Um, but also it can potentially, like I said, help,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: you know, help create fuel for aircraft carriers, submarines. We're
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: not looking to do that, but if the government one
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: day wants to buy us out or invest into that,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: or we make an exception, then that could happen. Right. So,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: if you're able to now make it cheaper, the enrichment
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: than any other centrifuge technology in the world, or make
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: it essentially obsolete, then Russia is going to have a
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: problem with the US. China is building more reactors right
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: now than the whole world put together.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: Are you serious?
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: Yes. So, this is why national security... Energy is national security.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: China's building more nuclear reactors.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: More reactors than the whole world put together. And this
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: is why the US and I believe the Trump administration is, huh?
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: How long have they been doing that?
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: I would say this happened probably the last decade. I
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: would say the last, they've been turning the corner because
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: of the rise in technology and and the digital side
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: in China, they're now focused on energy. They see that
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: as a bottleneck. And remember, the other issue recently was
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: the critical minerals, right? I believe the administration got really
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: mad because China was restricting some of the exports of
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: the critical minerals to the US. So now the US
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: is investing directly into these companies, right? Because those critical
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: minerals are used for armor, for.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: So once again, it poses a national security risk if
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 2: we don't have critical minerals and critical technologies like LIS
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: to actually advance.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: Do you have any idea how far behind we are?
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: Well, from China? I mean, this is why there's a
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: big push for small reactors and companies like Nano to
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: help mass produce this in the future, right? The current
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: administration is also bringing back online a lot of these
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: older reactors and kind of modernizing them as well. They're
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: pouring billions of dollars into larger projects as well. So
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: how much is still not going to be enough. So
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: we need to continue to pour more funding and also
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: remove the bureaucracy. And that's another area where The executive
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: orders recently helped push that, right? It reduces timelines of
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: the regulatory aspects, right? So we are moving in the
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: right direction. There's a tremendous amount of momentum, but China's
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: unleashing their energy through nuclear, and we need to follow.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: Shit. Are you hopeful? You got to be hopeful.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very hopeful. I mean, this is why, you know,
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: with LIS and Nano, we're very... much a part of
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: the build back of the US infrastructure in nuclear and
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: the capabilities of the new technologies in the future. So
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: this is why we're working with military here in the
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: US because we see this as an issue in the future, right?
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: Having energy security sovereignty is a big issue in the
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: US and we need to be a part of that.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: And you're doing this LIS is going to be headquartered
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: right out of Oak Ridge, Tennessee, correct?
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: Yes. We're actually bringing back those lasers and modernizing them
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: and then also developing our new next generation of lasers
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: to do the enrichment. So we made Oak Ridge, Tennessee
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: our home, which is also, if you think about it,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: this is where the first fuel came from for the
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: Manhattan Project, which is the first atomic bomb that dropped.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: So it was almost full circle. So if you think
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: about Jeff Erkins, he's also considered the founding father of
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: laser enrichment. If you think about his life, he almost
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: died in that concentration camp. The field created to save
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: his life was in Oak Ridge, Tennessee. So now it's
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: that full circle of his life. He's now bringing back
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: his lasers here to demonstrate that, to create the field
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: that's needed for us, right? Um, So once again, it's, it's,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: it's a freaky story. Um, also lists our whole executive
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: management team is from ASML. ASML also creates these lasers,
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: but therefore semiconductor chips, there will be no AI in
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: the world without ASML. And my whole laser executive team
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: is from ASML. So if they can't do this, no
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: one can. Okay. They're the most brilliant laser scientists I know.
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: We created what I call that laser tiger team of
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: the best of the best in the US. And we're
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: so pumped up. We really feel like we're going to
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: make this happen. And if you're able to create fuel cheaper, faster,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: and more energy efficient than Russia or any other country
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: in the world, they're going to be looking at us.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: We're going to have the edge in the U.S. now, right?
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: So this is why it's so important to actually back
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: this technologies because it could be the X factor in
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: the future.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: Where do we get all of our enriched uranium from
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: right now?
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: A lot of that.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: Does it come from Russia?
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: Yes. We were buying billions of dollars a year. And
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: then they now have CERN-X banning that, but with exceptions,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: you could still technically get it if you need it. Right. Um,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 2: I think that's some of the, but eventually they want
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: to never use Russia. Right. But I think you still
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: need that access, but this is why the U S recently,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: you know, um, created a deal with the UK, right.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: So they call it, I think the golden, uh, ages
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: deal or something where You know, they're looking to now
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: focus on other countries where we could build that fuel
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: capability or to get that fuel from as well, not
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: just Russia. But Russia, once again, controls about 40% of
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: the world's. I'm sorry, did you.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: Just say we're looking at other countries to produce some
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: breached uranium?
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: Well, we're looking to get, yeah, get some of that
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: to offset that, to offset Russia, right? To focus on
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: how we can not depend on Russia.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: Why would we do that? When we have LIS being built, right?
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: Why would we even waste our time fucking around with
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: other countries?
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: Exactly. And this is why with LIS, next year's a
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: pivotal moment for us because we're going to showcase that
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: same results that Dr. Jeff Erkins produced earlier. And we're
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: going to show in a single stage we could enrich
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: the LEU, two stages, HALU. Once we do that, it's
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: going to send shockwaves across the world in the U.S.,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: And then once we commercialize it, it's going to be
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: a big plus as well. Because commercializing it is saying
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: now we've built the business. We got approval from the
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: regulatory commission. That will take also the same amount of
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: time when all these reactors are built, all these small reactors,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: which is, I would say, early 2030s, in or around then.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: So the timing of this is in the next five
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: to four um, years, this is all going to come
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: to life. Um, that's what we, we hope to happen,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: but we're all in on this. Um, I think, I
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: think with lists, you know, I could become a billionaire,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: you know, that, that is something that we definitely need
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: in the future and the U S should definitely get behind. Um,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: and we'll be making a lot of noise. I would
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: say with lists next year, because a lot of the
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: things we're doing now are going to, mature next year.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: And people are going to see hopefully the government backing
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: us and, and state level, federal level. But, you know, we,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: we were also, um, selected as one of the six, uh, companies,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: domestic companies for the LEU acquisition program. So creating fuel
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: for the future, that's a $ 3. 4 billion over a decade, um,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: award that goes, that the only, the six companies could
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: bid for. So we're already got some recognition. Um, also the, the, um,
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: the air force innovation unit also selected us to do
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: some feasibility studies around that as well. Um, so yeah, it's,
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: it's happening. It's happening, but in the next, I would
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: say year or two, we're really gonna see a big
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: difference and we're going to reestablish that baseline with lists
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: and with Dr. Jeff Erkins, um, And the funniest thing
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: I want to announce also is each, I would say,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: enrichment project has a name. So I'm going to go
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: back to Lord of the Rings now. We're going to
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: name our project The Return of the King. Right. Right on. Yeah.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: So we're going to bring him back, and this is
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: once again, a US origin technology. So this is like
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: we could pound our chest and say this is made
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: in America, right?
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: Man, that's cool.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: That is cool.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: Dr.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: Jeff Erkins, that sounds like that would be a good interview.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: Yes. Oh, he talks a little slow, but you'll love him. Yeah.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: I'd love to meet him.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you should. He'll talk. Sounds like he'll be around.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: He wrote his own book, too. It's called The Nuclear Imperative.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: You could actually buy it from Amazon.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: Right on. I want to write that down. Yeah. The
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Nuclear Imperative.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: The Imperative, yeah. He wrote this a long time ago.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: So now everything is full circle for him. And we
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: want to just create his legacy. And even his paperwork,
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: his CAD drawings, They're so old that when paper turns brown,
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: we have thousands of pages. I want to create a
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: museum one day for him and to showcase that his
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: life's work has now changed the world and made also
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: the U.S. stronger than any other nation in the world.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's incredible.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: That is something. Anything else to discuss when it comes
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: to lists?
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: No, we're just excited about what's going to come. And, um,
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: you know, there's tons of interests in lists as well,
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: like from investors, you, uh, I think recently, um, Kathy woods,
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 2: you know, the famous investor arc invests, they wrote an
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: article about us enrichment and that us enrichment needs to
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: be built back faster. If not, AI is not going to,
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: you know, be at the full capacity because you don't
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: have the field to power. the reactors and they listed
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: five companies and I believe, and LIS was selected as
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: one of the benefactors, right? So large investors are even
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: looking at us already, right? Because they see the potential here.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: They see that this is going to be the next
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: generation of technology that changes the world. Yeah.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: I'm excited for you.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: I'm real excited for you. What else do you got
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: going on?
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: Um, No, those are my two, I would say, babies,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: and I'm all in on that.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: Well, you got your philanthropy.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: It sounds like that's pretty important to you.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very important. So, you know, growing up in
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: New York City, too, as a poor kid, I turned
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: to sports. I played a lot of basketball, football, like
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: not the real football where you're tackling everyone, but like
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: flag football. And And, you know, I was lucky because
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: I joined organizations that supported me, that kind of fostered
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: me and took me to tournaments and paid for my uniforms.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: And I just want to give that back, kind of
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: like pay it forward. So, you know, I want to,
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: you know, invest into kids and through sports and education, right?
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: Like teaching them about the real world, but at the
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: same time, duplicate what was given to me. when I
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: was younger, which is, you know, paying for tournaments, uniforms. Uh,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: so we have volleyball and basketball for inner city kids
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: right now. And, you know, we hire coaches, um, we
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: run clinics and, um, we do, we throw certain events too,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: to educate people as well. We donate. Um, so yeah,
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: that's very important to me, just paying it forward, um,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: being blessed and humble about things. And I think that
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: is necessary to, add to kind of, to the matrix,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: to add to, to the kind of higher power above, right?
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: Like you, you give back, you will receive. So, um,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: and this is what I live by and this is
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: why I think people like doing business with me because
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: I'm a genuine person. I don't look for the easy
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: way out. Um, I'm long-term and this is why I
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: want to create a legacy here, right? Like I'm long-term
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: in nano, long-term in lists. And I think this is
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: going to help change humanity, help change the world, and
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: give necessary energy to humanity across every aspect.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: It's impressive, man. It's impressive.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: Last question.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: If you could recommend three people to come on this show,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: who would they be?
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: Definitely Dr. Jeff Herkins. Like, a movie could be created
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: out of, out of his life. Um, I would also recommend, uh, another, um, my,
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: my CEO actually of Nano would be great. He, he
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: has a very unique story as well. And then, um,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: I would pick one friend of mine who also kind
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: of led the same journey as me, uh, but native
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: New Yorker, nothing was given to him. And he would
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 2: be able to come on and kind of, when I
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: say duplicate what I've done, but he could give you
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: a different perspective and a different topic and category. So, um,
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say his name because then, uh,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: he'll get gassed up right now. He'll get, he'll be like,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: oh my God, I could go on this show. So, um,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: those are the three I would, I would definitely want
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: to come on the show.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: Right on. Yeah. Well, thank you.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: Well, Jay, love what you're doing, man. Thank you. Thank
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: you for coming to Tennessee and doing this interview. And
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: I hope to see you again, and I wish you
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: the best of luck.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: My pleasure. No matter where you're watching The Sean Ryan
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: Show from, if you get anything out of this at all, anything,
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: Please like, comment, and subscribe. And most importantly, share this
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: everywhere you possibly can. And if you're feeling extra generous,
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.