Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Joyful Rebellion: Leading Schools With Relationships, AI, and Heart | Dr. Rachel Edoho-Eket

Transcript

Joyful Rebellion: Leading Schools With Relationships, AI, and Heart | Dr. Rachel Edoho-Eket · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
0:03
podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
0:07
Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
0:09
as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
0:12
technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
0:15
conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
0:18
we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
0:21
and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
0:25
and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
0:41
This EdTech podcast. I am Jeremy Micklund, joined
0:44
as always by co -host David Berner. And David
0:47
and I are super excited to welcome our special
0:49
guest here today, Dr. Rachel Edoaket, who is
0:55
just a fantastic principal. She has been recognized
1:00
as a Top 100 Influencers in Education by District
1:04
Administration Magazine, as well as an ISTE and
1:07
ASED 20 to Watch Award winner, among many other
1:12
accolades. I know she's spoken at TEDx events
1:15
in the past. Rachel also has her own podcast,
1:19
and I think we'll get into that a little bit
1:21
here later on in the show as well. But, you know,
1:24
Rachel, welcome. We're super excited to have
1:26
you on. Thank you so much, David and Jeremy.
1:28
I'm really excited for this conversation today.
1:30
Yeah, so one of the things that we do, Rachel,
1:33
is we kind of let the guests begin by giving
1:35
a little bit of their journey through education
1:38
to, you know, their humble beginnings or what
1:41
have you up to, you know, where you're at here
1:43
now. So if you don't mind, can you kind of clue
1:46
the listeners into a little bit of your background
1:48
story? Sure. I love this question because I think
1:52
it shows there's many different pathways and
1:54
there's not just a straight line to get to where
1:57
we want to be. But I am a third generation educator,
2:00
so my grandmother and mother both have their
2:03
teaching degrees. And teaching was something
2:05
that was always something that was modeled as
2:08
important to us in terms of education. And so
2:10
I knew from a very young age that I wanted to
2:13
be a teacher. I did not have school administration.
2:16
anywhere in my mind, but I definitely knew I
2:19
wanted to be a teacher. My aunt also is a teacher.
2:22
She taught music for 30 years. So I just grew
2:25
up around educators and I knew that that was
2:29
something I wanted to do and I'm someone that
2:30
loves school growing up. I wanted to be a part
2:34
of the whole process in terms of helping students
2:38
and families and other teachers and staff members
2:41
succeed as we're working with kids. So I started
2:44
my career as a kindergarten teacher, and I really
2:47
love teaching kindergarten. I didn't have prior
2:50
experience with teaching students that young,
2:52
but I really fell in love with the five year
2:53
olds. And I always tell people I learned so much
2:57
from. being a kindergarten teacher, you know,
2:59
the book, everything you need to know you learn
3:01
in kindergarten. That's something that was true
3:04
for me. I really learned how to be an ambassador
3:07
for families. I learned how to help see students
3:11
potential and move students where they can be
3:15
with encouragement. And I also learned just how
3:18
to differentiate instruction. and how to meet
3:20
very diverse needs. And so I loved my time as
3:24
a kindergarten teacher and I did that for many,
3:26
many years, about half of my career. And then
3:29
I got married and ended up having twins. And
3:32
so that ended up being a little bit of a part
3:35
in my journey where I stayed at home. So I always
3:37
tell people, if you are someone who's gonna take
3:41
child rearing leave, just know it's not gonna
3:43
slow down your career. In fact, for me, I learned
3:46
so many skills being a stay -at -home mom with
3:48
my twins that I could come back and multitask.
3:52
And coming back to work was actually pretty simple
3:54
because I had gained new skills in terms of my
3:58
level of organization and logistics. All of those
4:00
things came into play. So when I came back to
4:03
work, I remember interviewing with the principal.
4:06
And the principal said to me, Rachel, have you
4:08
ever considered being a team leader? And that
4:11
was not something that I was thinking about,
4:13
but I really wanted that leadership opportunity.
4:16
And I felt I had the skill set to do it. And
4:18
I loved that. That was one of the hardest roles
4:21
that I had, but I was able to open a new school
4:23
as a team leader. And that gave me a seat at
4:25
the table. And that really helped me to understand
4:28
more of the administrative side of teaching.
4:31
And I began to fall in love with leadership at
4:34
that time. So I had an amazing principal mentor.
4:37
who really walked me through all the different
4:40
things, giving me different experiences in leadership.
4:43
She did ask me at many different points in time
4:45
that I want to become a principal one day. And
4:47
I said, no, I will never become a principal.
4:50
That's not something I want to do. I want to
4:51
be a team leader in kindergarten and kind of
4:53
stay here. But again, over time, I just learned
4:56
more from her and doing things with my district
4:59
and getting different opportunities. And eventually
5:03
I became an assistant principal. and then was
5:06
promoted into the principalship. So I've been
5:08
in my role as a school leader now for 12 years.
5:11
Eight of them have been in the principalship
5:14
and four of them were assistant principal. And
5:16
in that role, I've really enjoyed being able
5:18
to continue to expand influence and serve more
5:21
families, serve more staff members, serve more
5:24
students. And from there, I've been able, really
5:28
blessed to have a lot of different opportunities.
5:30
I am currently the president of our state organization,
5:33
the Maryland Association of Elementary School
5:35
Principals. And in that role, I really get to
5:38
facilitate and work with other leaders across
5:40
our state. And I also get to meet people nationally
5:43
as a part of the National Association of Elementary
5:46
School Principals. And that really expanded my
5:49
views as well, thinking about the fact that,
5:51
wow, what we're experiencing in our individual
5:53
schools or across our state is also happening
5:56
nationally and internationally. I've just been
5:59
really fortunate to meet so many amazing educators
6:02
and leaders and continuing to learn from each
6:05
other. And so from there, I wrote a couple of
6:08
books. I've been able to speak at some really
6:11
amazing conferences. And I just really like the
6:14
way the journey is continuing to unfold. That's
6:18
great. It sounds like, you know, you wound us
6:20
through that path, you know, from very beginnings
6:23
with with your family, your mother and your grandmother
6:26
all being in education. And, you know, that's
6:29
definitely is going to, I think, help shape how
6:32
you view education. And then, you know, the touching
6:34
on the people that were your mentors along the
6:37
way. I know we've all I think to get to the point
6:39
that we have, you know, we wouldn't be where
6:41
we were if there wasn't that support and guidance
6:44
that we get from those people that helped to
6:46
support us. Is your journey done here? Do you
6:49
think you, do you see yourself moving beyond
6:52
just the principle of a building into other leadership
6:56
positions or is it time to now spread your message
7:00
of leadership in relationships on a much broader
7:04
scale? I know you've said you've been presenting,
7:08
does the word consultant enter into your sphere
7:11
anywhere? Yeah, I mean, this is a great question.
7:13
It's something I do reflect on a lot. I really
7:16
do love being a principal, but I'm also certified
7:19
to be a superintendent. So that is something
7:21
that I would consider in the future. I also am
7:24
a wife and a mother, so I have to also think
7:26
about my family's needs right now. And my children
7:30
are in high school, so that's been fun to...
7:33
get on their schedule. At this point, I'm basically
7:35
a glorified chauffeur. I take my children everywhere.
7:38
My husband does the same. And so I have to think
7:41
about how the different roles would impact our
7:44
family. So for right now, I love being a principal.
7:48
I love speaking on stages. I love consulting
7:52
with different organizations. So I like where
7:56
I am right now, but I'm certainly keeping the
7:58
door open to different positions in the future.
8:02
And you had mentioned to there's like obviously
8:05
there's a lot of relationship building and things
8:07
that go into this or a lot of people that you
8:08
interact with is there are there things Or is
8:12
there one relationship in particular? That's
8:15
the most important that a new principle should
8:17
prioritize or is it a variety of them? Or what's
8:21
your what's your take on like when you first
8:22
get in there as a new principle? What what are
8:25
the first relationships that you need to? cultivate
8:29
Yeah, great question. I think number one, of
8:32
course, if you have an assistant principal, you
8:34
want to make sure that you're doing your relationship
8:36
building, your norms, making sure you're on the
8:39
same page with roles and responsibilities. I
8:42
think if you have a really strong administrative
8:44
team, you can do incredible work. but often or
8:47
sometimes what happens is you have two strong
8:50
people, but if you're not working within your
8:52
strengths or the team strengths, then you're
8:55
going to be slowed down at one point or another.
8:58
And so I always impress upon leaders to make
9:01
sure your communication skills are very strong
9:04
and that you are very direct and also communicative
9:08
and collaborative with the people that you're
9:10
working with. So I would say as a priority, your
9:13
administrative team should definitely be that
9:16
kind of first point where you are making contact
9:19
and building relationships. I also think you
9:22
should have a very strong relationship with your
9:24
front office team and your custodial team. So
9:27
that's the next kind of group and the office
9:29
that you're going to see a lot. You're going
9:30
to see your health room staff. You want to go
9:33
over different protocols as things are happening
9:35
in the building. Everything kind of comes through
9:37
that front office. So tightening up procedures
9:41
and answering questions, making sure you celebrating
9:44
each other's birthdays. And again, everyone working
9:46
through their strengths is really important.
9:48
That makes for a great relationship. And then
9:50
I would say your leadership team. So these are
9:53
the department heads or the people who are leading
9:56
in your classrooms or across different departments.
9:59
It's really important that communication and
10:02
time is spent learning the norms of the school.
10:05
I ask a lot of questions. I'm someone who came
10:08
to my school two years ago after being in my
10:11
previous school for nine years. And it's been
10:14
a transition because not only are you changing
10:17
schools, but you're also getting to know the
10:20
people and the people are most important. And
10:22
that takes the most amount of time. to understand
10:25
group dynamics and all of those process questions.
10:29
So I would say if you're coming in new, making
10:32
sure that you're prioritizing your administrative
10:34
team, your assistant principals, your front office
10:38
staff, your custodians, and your leadership team.
10:41
And then finally, when you're thinking about
10:43
parents, we have a really strong PTA in our community.
10:46
So one of my first touch points is with our PTA.
10:48
And I wanted to make sure that I had opportunities
10:50
to meet the community. And so we offered several
10:54
times for community to come out to the school.
10:57
And we also pushed out into our community and
10:59
we did that communication through our PTA. And
11:02
so that was an important time on the summer to
11:05
get face time with our community members and
11:08
our new students. Was there would you say there
11:11
was a single thing that was the maybe not the
11:15
hardest, but like the biggest transition from
11:18
going from a teacher to a principal, like if
11:20
someone was going from If you were working with
11:23
somebody that was going from teacher to principal,
11:25
what advice would you give them as, like, this
11:27
was the biggest shift that I didn't really anticipate
11:30
or something like that? A couple. I can think
11:33
of a few. I'm going to give you two. I went from
11:36
kindergarten to assistant principal, and that
11:39
was a very big jump. That's probably one of the
11:41
biggest jumps that you can make. And so one of
11:44
the one of the things I had to understand was
11:47
systems. and how if one part of a system is impacted,
11:52
other parts of the system are impacted too. And
11:55
I didn't really have that understanding because
11:58
I was coming out of a kindergarten classroom.
12:00
So I knew if something happened in my classroom,
12:03
that might impact a couple of people. But what
12:06
I didn't have an understanding of, if something
12:08
happened in one department or a decision is made,
12:11
it can have a domino effect on the school. And
12:14
so one of the things that I always impress upon
12:16
new leaders is too slow. I was moving very fast
12:21
my first few months on the job. If someone asked
12:24
me a question, I'm yes, no, maybe so, like doing
12:27
this whole thing, but it was causing a lot of
12:30
confusion. And so what I say to new leaders is
12:33
unless it is a life or death situation, let the
12:38
person know who's asking you a question. You've
12:41
heard the question. You will get back to them
12:43
with the appropriate response. And then you go
12:46
back. and you check and you learn the answer
12:50
and then you communicate the answer. So I know
12:53
just by my personality, I'm an achiever and I'm
12:56
someone I like to move quickly through things.
12:58
And I made a lot of mistakes moving too fast.
13:02
So I say slow down, get to know people. And when
13:06
you're asked questions, if you do not know the
13:08
firm answer to them, don't make it up. Just say
13:11
you will get back to them and check on those
13:14
answers and then get back to them. Yeah, it almost
13:17
in my mind. I'm like as you're saying and I'm
13:19
thinking like there's almost like categories
13:21
of things So like this is immediate Mm -hmm something
13:25
that I need to maybe take some time to like digest
13:29
and then I'll give some sort of answer on that
13:31
Is that kind of how you operate or is it? Or
13:37
what do you do with that? I think I think part
13:40
of my challenge being a new leader was that understanding
13:45
that just because something is urgent for someone
13:47
else doesn't mean it's urgent for me. And so
13:51
that sense of urgency that sometimes people have
13:53
it's like really hard because you absolutely
13:57
understand that this is important to the person
14:00
that this issue is feels like life or death to
14:04
this person. But as leaders, we have to take
14:07
a step back. and really assess where does this
14:11
decision lie or how quickly does it need to be
14:16
made? Or do we need to pause and learn more information
14:20
before we make a decision? And sometimes that's
14:23
a communication with the person to say, I know
14:27
this is important to you. And because it's important
14:29
to you, I want to make sure I get this answer
14:32
right. I want to make sure I have all the information
14:35
that we need to make an informed decision. And
14:38
so I need a couple of days to work on this. And
14:42
I think people respect that because you're giving
14:45
yourself some time and space instead of saying
14:48
something immediately, which may create more
14:52
problems later on. I think one of the things
14:55
that maybe slowing down can also do is get you
14:59
to recognize the moment that you're in and to
15:03
try to find the best, most the best possible
15:07
outcome or most optimistic outlook that you can
15:10
have on it, not assuming the worst in everyone,
15:13
but maybe even to kind of find that joy in the
15:16
moment. So I'm kind of transitioning here into
15:19
the TEDx talk that I know that you gave a few
15:24
months back, I think it was, on the Joyful Rebellion.
15:28
read this quote directly, because it really struck
15:31
me when I was watching that. The joyful rebellion
15:34
is not about ignoring the challenges of education,
15:37
but is about responding to those challenges in
15:40
a way that's different. What do you mean by that?
15:44
How can you use joy to approach a topic in a
15:48
situation, a challenging one, in a much more
15:53
optimistic tone? Yeah. So one of the things that
15:56
I talk a lot about as I'm doing my keynotes is
16:00
about resilience. And part of resilience is joy
16:03
and finding things to celebrate every day in
16:06
our work and how we are approaching problems
16:10
or things that are challenging. And so one of
16:12
the things that I always impress upon educators
16:15
and leaders to think about is how do you approach
16:18
problems? Do you see them? as something that
16:22
is terrible and challenging and another issue?
16:27
Or do we really approach them as opportunities?
16:30
And I think this is the time in education because
16:32
there are so many challenges. We have to be very
16:36
intentional about how we respond to things. We
16:39
cannot have a knee -jerk reaction to everything
16:41
that's going wrong. We need to think about, hmm,
16:46
this is an opportunity to get creative. This
16:48
is an opportunity to advocate for what we need
16:51
to show the data as to why this may or may not
16:56
work. This is a time for us to use new keys to
17:01
unlock doors. And one of the things I like to
17:03
think about is that old keys may not unlock the
17:06
new doors. We're going to have to think about
17:08
some new ways, some creative ways to approach
17:14
challenges, because the challenges that we're
17:15
seeing today are only increasing. They're not
17:18
going anywhere. They're actually getting harder.
17:20
And so when I'm thinking about, OK, here's something
17:24
else that's happening, I really try my best to
17:26
encourage our team to think through what are
17:29
the possibilities within this challenge? Is there
17:33
something new that can come out of this if we
17:36
approach it in a different way? And sometimes
17:38
we have to sit with that and we have to really
17:40
bring new people to the table to get some different
17:42
perspectives, because sometimes we all get stuck.
17:45
But I think this is the time where we as educators
17:49
need to get creative. We have budget cuts. We
17:53
have staffing cuts. That means the way that we
17:56
used to do things is not the same. It can't be
17:59
the same. And so what is possible? That's a question
18:02
I ask all the time. I want to know what's possible.
18:06
And then I usually will try to give one or two
18:08
solutions. Is this a possibility? Is this a possibility?
18:12
I just had the situation actually last week.
18:15
We had gone through all of our candidates for
18:17
a position and there were no more candidates
18:18
left. It was a very specialized position and
18:22
one that had been vacant for us since December.
18:25
And I said, I really do not want to begin the
18:28
year with a vacancy. And so we started asking
18:32
questions. We started looking at staff and using
18:35
staff flexibly. Is this an option? If so, who
18:39
can I clear this with? And that kind of started
18:41
a solution. And we were able to fill that position.
18:44
But we had to do it creatively and flexibly.
18:47
We couldn't just say, oh, no candidates, we have
18:49
nothing to do about it. No, we had to come with
18:52
some solutions as a team and pull it together.
18:55
I think part of that, you know, comes from, you
18:58
know, you're talking about here, you know, leveraging
19:01
those different relationships that you have.
19:03
But I think it's also kind of understanding the
19:05
culture of the building that you're in and realizing,
19:09
I think, with a little bit of empathy where if
19:11
you push one button a little too long or hard
19:15
that those ripple effects will happen and it
19:17
might have this negative outcome. So being able
19:19
to, I think, to feel out the people that are
19:22
in the buildings that you work with to help you
19:25
understand what is possible. Yes, a lot of massaging
19:28
and again, back to relationships because it's
19:31
right. You're right. You have to know the people
19:33
you have to. And when you're new to a building,
19:37
that's the hardest part. because knowing people
19:39
takes time, knowing group dynamics. I'm still
19:43
sometimes, you know, running into dynamics and
19:45
I'm like, oh, okay, now I know that, let me file
19:47
that away, right? So that's a part of our work
19:50
as leaders and that's why it's important, like
19:52
I said, like, and you said as well, to slow down
19:55
because sometimes you can step on a landmine
19:59
unintentionally, but you have to approach it
20:02
with a level of care and concern, especially
20:06
as we're solving complex issues. So if you could
20:09
start a joyful rebellion movement in schools
20:11
tomorrow, what would be the first thing you would
20:14
either ask educators to either start or to stop
20:17
doing? I would love people to start doing gratitude
20:20
walks. And I talk a lot about gratitude walks
20:22
because as leaders, we are often walking into
20:27
classrooms and into learning environments looking
20:29
for what's not right to correct. But I would
20:34
ask that we walk with a new lens. and look for
20:38
what is going well. Take pictures of that, share
20:42
it out freely. I like to share pictures with
20:45
our staff every Friday. I say happy Friday and
20:48
I'm highlighting something in our building, be
20:51
it kids or staff, the community, something that
20:54
we can celebrate because we don't spend enough
20:58
time doing that. And I listen to a lot of different
21:02
speakers and they'll say things like, if you
21:04
don't... If you don't tell your own story, somebody
21:07
else will. And that's important for schools to
21:09
know, especially public schools. This is a time
21:12
where people are evaluating their schools. And
21:16
so we want our families to have the confidence
21:19
that we're taking great care of their children.
21:23
And Rachel, I want to stay on the relationship
21:25
piece a little bit, but I also want to tie in
21:28
AI. But if we could, so like the book that you
21:32
wrote with Brad Johnson. the relational intelligence
21:35
book. Can you just give us like, what's the scenario,
21:39
in one sentence, what's the main focal point
21:42
of that book? The main focal point is that trust,
21:46
communication and connections serve as a foundation
21:49
of everything that we do as leaders. And it's
21:53
a way for us to retain the talented teachers
21:55
in our buildings because teachers have a lot
21:58
of choice and where they want to work and challenges
22:00
are everywhere. So if we can keep our teachers
22:04
in a stable learning environment that's joyful,
22:07
our students will have a stable learning environment,
22:09
which is best for them. Is there any part of
22:12
you that worries at all like with AI and how
22:16
we're engaging with devices now? Do you have
22:21
any fears there about the impact on the relational
22:25
intelligence or like the impact of how people
22:28
interact with one another? student to teacher,
22:31
teacher to student, and student to student, teacher
22:34
to teacher, all of the above. Well, I think it's
22:37
interesting because what we're seeing now is
22:39
a pendulum swinging that is taking and removing
22:43
devices out of schools. So in our district, and
22:46
actually the state of Maryland just passed a
22:49
law that said by 2027, every school district
22:52
needs to have a policy regarding devices. and
22:56
limiting devices essentially. So we're kind of
22:59
seeing a pendulum swing in an opposite direction
23:01
now where people have some concerns about screen
23:04
time. They have some concerns about some of the
23:06
impacts socially. And so I don't have a concern
23:10
necessarily in schools in terms of that because
23:14
I do believe ultimately humans are never going
23:18
to be replaced. You cannot replace um, a hug
23:22
from an adult. You can't do that. You cannot
23:25
replace those relationships that humans have
23:29
that human touch. You can't do that. You can
23:32
supplement some of those things. I think like
23:34
instructionally, you can supplement instruction
23:37
with AI. You can supplement AI with some things,
23:40
but I, I truly believe that nothing can replace
23:44
humans and nothing can replace the way that we
23:47
interact with each other. We need to prioritize
23:50
that. And I also believe that AI can help make
23:53
more time for those relationships. And here's
23:57
an example. When I, traditionally as I'm thinking
24:00
of things to do for our staff, it might take
24:04
me like an hour's time to sit and really think
24:07
through, okay, I wanna do something to boost
24:09
our staff morale. And I might talk to several
24:11
people and gather ideas and go through that.
24:14
But when I need a thought partner very quickly,
24:17
I can turn to AI really quickly and say, Here
24:20
are some of my ideas when I'm a little stuck.
24:22
What are some other ideas that I might consider?
24:24
And within seconds, I will have brand new ideas
24:27
to consider to start working off of. And what
24:30
that has given me back is time, time to spend
24:34
with my students, time to spend with our staff
24:37
members, time to make personal phone calls that
24:40
are positive. So I like to think of AI as a partner
24:44
to help save time so that we have more time for
24:47
people. And that's a really good point. We've
24:51
had some conversations lately on the podcast
24:54
just about what screen time looks like and how
24:59
it's really in relation to making sure that you're
25:02
still building relationships in school like that.
25:04
And a lot of it to me seems to be that it's all
25:07
in the design of how we approach it. Like if
25:12
all you're doing is placing a screen, in front
25:15
of students for seven hours a day. Well, yeah,
25:17
that's not going to be good, right? But if there's
25:19
intentionality in the design with lessons in
25:22
pedagogy, and I think like what you mentioned
25:26
there, it opens up some of those doors and opportunities
25:28
for better relationship building. So Rachel,
25:33
you had mentioned the things that AI frees you
25:37
up to do, like creating those relationships and
25:39
things like that. Are there things that you feel
25:42
like from a leadership standpoint? there are
25:45
certain tasks that just should not be automated.
25:48
Yes, I think when we are working with parents
25:51
through challenges or challenging situations,
25:54
we should not be relying solely on email because
25:57
so much can be misunderstood. And there are some
26:00
nuances in some of those conversations. So we
26:03
should be picking up the phone. We should invite
26:06
families in to meet with us face to face or meeting
26:09
them where is a convenient location. Because
26:12
I do think nothing can replace and you know it's
26:18
important that our presence is felt and an email
26:20
doesn't really get that done. Another thing I
26:24
always like to tell leaders is that we should
26:27
be out in our buildings on the ground. walking
26:30
through, making sure that our presence is there
26:32
because we need to stay more connected and now
26:36
more than ever. So we really need none of that
26:38
can be replaced, in my opinion, by AI or by computer
26:43
systems because the human touch is what's needed
26:45
right now. What do you see as the biggest challenge?
26:50
Like as we as we work in schools and set examples
26:53
for students, what what is it that you think
26:56
is the most important thing to maintain? as a
27:00
staff so that students still see the value of
27:04
authentic relationships, especially with all
27:06
the things coming their way, right? And not just
27:07
them, but teachers too, like AI or just the virtual
27:12
world that's out there. What do you think is
27:14
the most important factor to help students understand
27:17
the importance of those relationships? Well,
27:21
I think as the adults in the building, we should
27:23
be modeling this with each other. That's one
27:26
thing that we talk as a staff a lot about. We
27:29
can't ask students to do anything that we are
27:32
not willing to do ourselves. when we're having
27:36
personal check -ins with each other, that's one
27:37
of the great things about our staff. We do personal
27:40
check -ins with each other, and we do them with
27:42
the students as well. And the students look forward
27:45
to those checks. And I think of myself, even
27:48
when I was a little girl, I remember having some
27:51
family challenges. And it was my principal and
27:55
my classroom teachers who really looked out for
27:58
me, who asked about how are you doing? How's
28:00
your mom? How's your big brother? And those were
28:03
simple check ins, but they meant a lot to me.
28:06
They showed me that I was valued and that I was
28:09
important to someone else. And I think that's
28:11
what we need to be doing for students. You know,
28:14
a lot of students are feeling disconnected and
28:16
disengaged for a variety of reasons, but it only
28:19
takes one trusted adult to really capture a child.
28:22
And so as the adults in the building, each one
28:24
of us should be thinking about who are we trusted
28:26
adults for and making sure that we have an account
28:30
of all those students in our building so that
28:33
everybody knows there's a go -to person for every
28:37
child. So Rachel, you've written three different
28:41
books. You have The Principal's Journey, which
28:43
is kind of for school leaders, Relational Intelligence
28:47
to help build stronger human connections. But
28:50
your third book, Principal Palace for children,
28:53
for kids. What do you think is the common thread
28:57
that ties those books together? Definitely leadership
29:01
and I think just a love of learning and just
29:05
I like to make sure that people know the functions
29:09
of like all of the beauty of the different roles
29:11
in our schools. And so I really try to highlight
29:14
that across all the books, the importance that
29:17
no matter what your title is, everybody is a
29:20
leader in a school. Everyone is looked up to
29:23
by someone in the school. And so when I wrote
29:26
the children's book, I really wanted the children
29:28
to know and understand what the job of a principal
29:31
is, because a lot of students will tell you,
29:34
if you ask 10 students, what does a principal
29:35
do, you're going to definitely get 10 different
29:37
answers. And they're all going to be hilarious.
29:40
And so I wrote that book because I really wanted
29:43
our students to understand what is the role of
29:46
a principal and how do we support our schools.
29:48
We just don't make all the rules, which is often
29:51
what we're thought of. Or children don't only
29:54
come and see us when they're in trouble. We do
29:56
lots of different things. And so. My goal in
29:58
writing that book was for students to understand
30:00
the many different roles that a principal has.
30:03
And then relational intelligence, again, is all
30:06
about valuing people and valuing the strengths
30:09
that everyone brings individually to our buildings
30:11
to make our buildings stronger. And then the
30:14
principal's journey, just talking about how to
30:17
navigate your pathway to leadership. What individual
30:21
strengths do you bring? to a building or what
30:24
potential do you have? And what mentors can you
30:26
seek out to help bring that out? So I think it
30:29
really is all across those books, I would say,
30:33
valuing people and the strengths that we bring
30:36
individually and collectively into schools to
30:38
make them better. I remember and I vividly remember
30:42
this being in third grade and third grade was
30:44
a tough year for me. I remember because that
30:46
was the year my parents were getting divorced
30:49
and the principal of the school Um, you know,
30:52
it was one his name. Um, so I shout o around.
30:58
I have no idea. Bu I definitely viewed as an
31:04
a person that would, you k their office and they
31:08
woul he had to, you know, dole He caught me walking
31:14
through the hallway one day on my way back to
31:17
class from somewhere and he pulled me aside into
31:19
it was like a maintenance room and at that time
31:23
we were also doing some sort of fundraiser at
31:26
the school and he pulled like a five dollar bill
31:29
out of his wallet and bought five raffle tickets
31:31
or something from me and just said you know hey
31:34
I know you're going through stuff but you know
31:37
I'm here to help support you and oh yeah by the
31:40
way I know your brother and you were climbing
31:42
on the roof of the building the other days, don't
31:43
do that again. I love it. So he took that moment
31:48
to kind of, I think, you know, instill a little
31:50
positive moment into, but yet I'm going to sandwich
31:54
this with, you know, something that I know you
31:57
were doing. And, you know, I'm not going to punish
31:59
you for it, but. Yeah, you can do you can do
32:01
better. But you know, and I think that just kind
32:03
of helps bring me to you know, if you if you
32:06
think back to like the best principles that you've
32:09
had or or that you've had an opportunity to work
32:11
with, what qualities do they possess that help
32:15
them rise up to the top? Like like for like Mr.
32:18
Cox in my example, you know? Yeah, I think Basically
32:22
what you just said, I have another example similarly
32:24
to that. Mr. Slaykin was my elementary school
32:27
principal, and he still is my favorite principal
32:29
to this day. He actually came to surprise me
32:31
last year at my school, and we got to walk the
32:34
hallway together as principals. And it was like
32:37
a dream come true to walk next to him, knowing
32:41
that he was my principal when I was in second
32:43
grade. And he got to meet our current students.
32:47
And they were captivated by him. Similarly, like
32:50
I was. because it's a little girl. And I think
32:53
what distinguishes him and many other principles
32:57
is the care, the concern, and what you just said,
33:02
like kind of that check -in, like, hey, I'm gonna
33:04
pull you aside. I know your name. I know about
33:08
your brother. I know what you did yesterday.
33:11
But also that you're here to support, right?
33:14
So I think holding people to high standards,
33:18
and really speaking life into them to say, like,
33:22
you can be doing better. And there's nothing
33:24
wrong with that. I expect you to do that, while
33:28
also having that genuine care, that individualized
33:33
attention. I think every child responds to that,
33:36
and so does every adult. All right. So the work
33:41
week starts on Monday, typically. But tell us,
33:45
what is a strong start Sunday? Oh, yeah. So the
33:48
Strong Start Sunday is the day before, where
33:51
we get ready for the Monday. And so Strong Start
33:54
Sunday came about as I was finishing up and thinking
33:59
about relational intelligence about that book
34:01
and just thinking about what do school leaders
34:04
need? How can we pour into each other? Because
34:07
this is a very hard role, very, very challenging.
34:11
It becomes challenging to me more every year,
34:14
more and more. And so Strong Start Sundays really
34:17
just became a forum for us to come together around
34:22
certain topics and share what works, share strategies,
34:25
share encouragement. So it's been almost a year
34:28
of that live podcast. And I'm really appreciative
34:32
for all of the guests and the people who've made
34:35
time to watch. I mean, we're all very busy. So
34:38
the fact that people were willing to watch us
34:41
for 30 minutes and you know, get a level of encouragement
34:45
before the work week starts, I think was important.
34:48
Yeah. Yeah. And as I say, definitely check out
34:51
the podcast if you haven't. Strong Start Sundays.
34:55
Thank you. As you've been going through that
34:59
process, what do you feel like has inspired you
35:02
the most with those folks that you've talked
35:03
to? Oh my goodness. I always learn so much from
35:07
different leaders. You know, every leader is
35:09
so different and every leader has like multiple
35:13
areas of expertise. And so there have been times
35:15
when I've said, I'm really interested in what
35:18
your school is doing. So in addition to what
35:20
you're telling, can we stay like five more minutes
35:22
and give me some more information about it? So
35:25
for me, the value has been learning from other
35:28
leaders and hearing their stories. and thinking
35:32
about how I can incorporate some of their leadership
35:35
into our own leadership in our schools. So I
35:39
think it's so helpful for school leaders to come
35:43
together and share what's working so that we
35:46
can all learn from each other. Yeah. And I think
35:50
there's so many great outlets now for leaders
35:53
and people that are in like Jeremy and I's position.
35:56
Like we've been able to likewise talk to so many
35:59
amazing people that have awesome insights and
36:03
just in, you know, it encourages you to want
36:05
to do better and learn more. And so we really
36:09
appreciate that, too. As you look at the leadership
36:13
messages that you've either written about or
36:15
that you've heard from others, what's one that
36:18
you keep coming back to, like call it a mantra
36:21
or whatever? What's the message that you keep
36:23
coming back to? I keep coming back to the idea
36:26
that people do not connect with perfect leaders,
36:30
they connect with authentic leaders. And for
36:32
me, it's important to continue to help demystify
36:36
the role of the principal. I think people have
36:39
so many misconceptions and ideas about what we
36:42
do and what we don't do. And I think at some
36:45
point, and I know I was subject to this as well,
36:48
I had a lot of misconceptions that were actually
36:51
preventing me from wanting to do this job. But
36:55
once I saw the level of impact, once I thought
36:59
about the impact that my principles had on me,
37:03
I knew that that was something that I wanted
37:06
to do and that I wasn't going to be afraid of
37:09
it. I wanted to come in as prepared as I could,
37:12
as prepared as possible to be successful, but
37:15
just knowing and understanding the importance
37:17
of the roles that we are in is critical. So I
37:21
think the more that we talk about our struggles,
37:24
the more that we talk about our success as educators,
37:28
then that will open up other people to see themselves
37:31
in this future role as well. If we act like everything
37:34
is perfect, however, no one's going to want to
37:37
do it because then it becomes something that's
37:39
unattainable. Then it becomes something that
37:41
only a certain number of people can do. If you
37:44
have this certain experience or if you only do
37:46
that. And so I like to tell people I came out
37:49
of a kindergarten classroom. Not many principals
37:52
have that profile, but I'm proud to continue
37:55
to share that because there may be other kindergarten
37:58
teachers sitting right now who haven't considered
38:01
being a school leader, but they may have the
38:04
skill set to do it. So we should continue to
38:06
talk about that. So I think you're almost leading
38:09
us perfectly into our lightning round here is
38:12
because we want to get to know the authentic
38:14
Rachel here, right? And I think these questions
38:17
are going to help us get there. So feel free
38:19
to give as short or an elaborate of a response
38:22
as you need for these first ones here until we
38:24
get to the this or that one. And then we're going
38:26
to kind of paint you into a corner. I think you've
38:29
got the first one here. OK, what's a song or
38:34
artist that never fails to reset your mood after
38:36
a long week? I'm gonna go with Michael Jackson.
38:40
I've been enjoying the movie and then that like
38:43
funneled all of the songs that I like growing
38:44
up again. So I've been listening to all of the
38:48
old stuff in the car on the way to work. Awesome.
38:52
What's your go -to comfort food after a long
38:54
day or a long week? Anything chocolate, but no
38:58
nuts in there. It has to just be chocolate. So
39:00
like a brownie, no nuts or ice cream, something
39:03
like that. All right. If you could take a one
39:07
week learning trip anywhere, no work obligations.
39:10
Where are you going? Oh, doesn't have to be learning.
39:14
Could it be any? Yeah, doesn't have to be learning.
39:18
OK, so I love Hawaii. We have family there and
39:22
it's one of my favorite places to go and relax.
39:24
So I would definitely go back to Hawaii. I was
39:28
there once I would go back in a heartbeat. I
39:30
think it would be just fantastic. Yes, yes. What's
39:35
something that most people would be surprised
39:37
to learn about you? OK, well, when I had my twins
39:41
and when my ROB had never had an opportunity
39:46
to like do advertisements with two babies. So
39:50
I asked my husband and I if we would do some
39:53
advertisements for them in exchange for like
39:55
free family pictures, which we did. And we were
39:58
so excited to do those. Well, we didn't know
40:00
exactly like where the prints were going to end
40:03
up. So we found some in the magazine, which was
40:06
nice. But the best was we heard we were on a
40:09
billboard, which I did not believe until one
40:11
of my parents took a picture from the side of
40:14
the highway and said, you guys are on a billboard.
40:18
And so that was cool. I never saw it in person,
40:20
but I saw the video evidence, the picture of
40:22
it. And at the time, our children were probably
40:25
in elementary school, so they used those pictures.
40:28
for many years. Our children are now in high
40:31
school, but they held those baby pictures a very,
40:34
very long time. So I was on the billboard. That's
40:38
pretty that's pretty crazy. What's what's a book,
40:41
movie or show that isn't work related that you
40:44
love right now? Well, I will always love The
40:47
Office. I think that's like. probably my favorite
40:49
show ever. So I can like watch the office anytime,
40:54
any season. And it's like, well, seasons one
40:56
through five or six are better. But that's that's
40:59
a show I can watch at any given time and always
41:01
enjoy it. Yeah. So David and I are going to have
41:05
this big conference tomorrow and you're going
41:07
to be our keynote. keynote speaker for that event.
41:10
And so what song or do you want to be your walk
41:13
-up song that's going to get that, you know,
41:15
audience going here to kick off a great day at
41:18
the conference? Okay. It's always, if I'm speaking
41:21
and keynoting in the summer, it's always Summertime
41:23
by DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince. Classic.
41:28
Yep. Very classic. Cool. Um, okay. We're now
41:32
we're getting into our this or that segment.
41:34
This is either or you can only choose one. All
41:37
right. This is hard. Okay. So notebooks and paper
41:42
or a notes app paper paper. Okay. Podcasts or
41:47
music while traveling music mountains or beach.
41:54
Ooh. I'm going to say home. No, I'm kidding.
41:59
I'm going to say the beach. OK. Text or call?
42:06
Text. Early bird or night owl? Definitely early
42:11
bird. OK. And then first to leave the party or
42:15
last to stay? Definitely first to leave. Also,
42:18
I want to change my answer. I like phone calls
42:20
better. Texts are quicker, but I like phone calls
42:22
better. And then our last one, big group hangout
42:27
or one -on -one time? One -on -one time, for
42:30
sure. All right. Yeah. I like those questions.
42:33
Those are good. Well, thank you so much for joining
42:36
us, Rachel. We've just had a great time here
42:39
chatting with you and getting to know you a little
42:40
bit better and having these wonderful conversations.
42:43
But before we let you off the hook here, we want
42:46
to give you an opportunity here to promote anything
42:48
that you have coming up. Give a plug for your
42:52
books or a presentation that you're going to
42:55
give or a great way to reach out to you. Awesome.
42:59
Well, Jeremy and David, thank you so much for
43:01
having me. This has been a fun conversation.
43:04
I would say to, first of all, thank you. And
43:07
thank you to everyone who took the time to listen
43:09
to the session today. I would love to stay connected
43:11
with you. The easiest way to stay connected with
43:13
me is rachaelatoweket .com. That's where you'll
43:15
find my books, my blogs, my videos, and all those
43:18
things in one place. And some things I want to
43:21
lift up. I'm going to be speaking on this main
43:23
stage. next week at ISTE ASCD conference. I'm
43:27
really excited for that opportunity. I'm also
43:29
going to be keynoting at the National School
43:31
Leaders Conference in July in Orlando. And if
43:35
you're familiar with Jimmy Casas, I'll be the
43:37
keynote speaker on Wednesday in Chicago at Coles
43:40
Terai. So I'm really excited to join his team
43:43
and meet everyone. So thank you again for this
43:46
opportunity, guys. Yeah, and we'll make sure
43:48
to link those things in our show description
43:50
here too. But yeah. Again, thank you so much.
43:55
Thank you. Thanks for listening to Integrate
43:59
This. Want to take your learning further? Head
44:02
over to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials,
44:05
deep dives and more ed tech tips you can use
44:08
right away. Don't forget to subscribe and catch
44:11
new podcast episodes every Thursday on Apple,
44:15
Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Until
44:18
next time, keep exploring, keep innovating. and
44:22
keep integrating this.