Latest / Karl and Crew / Celebrating 100 Years: Music through the Decade & 6 Reasons to Believe in the Resurrection with J. Warner Wallace
Transcript
- 0:00S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
- 0:06S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
- 0:10S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
- 0:16S1: the truth daily.
- 0:17S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available.
- 0:21S2: And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
- 0:25S2: that would make it worth it.
- 0:26S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
- 0:29S3: the life source, which is God.
- 0:32S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
- 0:36S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
- 0:39S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
- 0:44S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
- 0:48S1: and crew. Carl and crew coming up here. We're going
- 0:52S1: to start in the 20s, and we're going to rock
- 0:54S1: and roll all the way through this thing. What do
- 0:56S1: you say? Yeah, we're gonna roll.
- 0:59S3: There won't be so much rock and roll. No.
- 1:01S5: But it's gonna roll. It's gonna be good.
- 1:04S1: It's gonna be good. We're going to kick it off.
- 1:06S1: Coming up here. The first song that was ever played
- 1:10S1: 100 years ago. Next what? Tuesday? Yes. What is it?
- 1:14S5: Next Tuesday?
- 1:14S3: Next Tuesday?
- 1:15S5: Yep.
- 1:15S1: 100 years. Hang on.
- 1:18S6: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 1:57S1: All right, we got the Wayback Machine out. You got
- 2:00S1: that fired up, young thunder.
- 2:01S3: Yeah. Hold on. Just let me. Sometimes you gotta kick
- 2:04S3: start it.
- 2:05S5: Yeah.
- 2:06S3: All right, let's go. Dust coming off of that thing.
- 2:08S5: It's going.
- 2:09S1: All right. We got the Wayback Machine, so I don't know. Ali.
- 2:12S1: How do you set this one up?
- 2:13S2: Well, as you may have heard, we are celebrating 100
- 2:16S2: years of Moody Radio. The official birthday is actually a
- 2:20S2: week from today. July 28th was the first broadcast right
- 2:24S2: here on Moody Radio. So as part of our celebration,
- 2:27S2: we are revisiting some of those moments and memories from
- 2:30S2: our history.
- 2:31S1: Yeah, here we are, 1920s. First WMBI song. I want
- 2:37S1: you to know him more. Take a listen.
- 2:40S7: I have a say. Your. I want you to know
- 2:46S7: one to whom glory, glory, I claim one who is
- 2:54S7: with me wherever I go. Jesus, my Lord and my King.
- 3:07S7: I want you to know him. I want you to
- 3:11S7: hold him. I want you to love him, too. I
- 3:21S7: want you to know him. To know is to love him.
- 3:29S7: I want you to know, my King. I was a
- 3:39S7: captain in my ransom. He paid. Made me an heir
- 3:47S7: to his throne. Now I rejoice and am never afraid
- 3:56S7: that he will not leave me. Oh, Lord. I want
- 4:08S7: you to know him. I want you to own him.
- 4:14S7: I want you to love him too. I want you
- 4:21S7: to know him. To know is to love him. I
- 4:31S7: want you to know. My King.
- 4:40S1: Wow. First song played on WNBI 100 years ago.
- 4:45S5: Wow.
- 4:45S1: Okay, what strikes me. It was really good. It was
- 4:48S1: super clear. The harmonies. It taught me one thing. boy,
- 4:51S1: they knew how to read music back in the day.
- 4:54S5: Yeah yeah.
- 4:54S3: Yeah. No, I mean, they're doing all that live. It's
- 4:56S3: not like, oh, let me just cue up a song
- 4:58S3: and we'll play it here for you. No, it's they
- 5:01S3: they got people in the studio to sing that song.
- 5:05S5: It's not.
- 5:06S1: Take two.
- 5:07S5: No. Yeah.
- 5:08S3: Can you imagine hitting the wrong note or something while
- 5:11S3: you're on radio singing?
- 5:13S5: It happened.
- 5:13S3: I'm sure it did. I mean, it had to have happened. Oh, yeah.
- 5:15S3: It just wouldn't feel so good.
- 5:18S1: Okay, so let's duck into the 30s here. If you
- 5:20S1: start hearing voices you recognize, you can text us at (800) 555-7898.
- 5:26S1: If you're recognizing voices in the 30s, that's saying something.
- 5:31S1: That's that's saying something. Here's the WNBA announcer trio. A
- 5:35S1: little taste of this.
- 5:38S7: I have something in my heart that Jesus gave to me.
- 5:43S7: It makes me feel like singing glory all the day
- 5:48S7: he found my captive soul and gave me liberty. And
- 5:52S7: now I feel like singing glory. He makes.
- 5:57S1: Okay. That is awesome.
- 6:00S4: That was every day. That's how they started the mornings.
- 6:02S8: That's how they started the morning.
- 6:03S4: And that was the music.
- 6:04S3: That's a perfect song for rush hour.
- 6:07S5: I thought I had a young.
- 6:08S4: Thunder sing every day.
- 6:09S5: You know?
- 6:09S3: No, please don't suggest that now.
- 6:12S5: It had, like.
- 6:12S2: A barbershop quartet.
- 6:14S5: Kind of. Absolutely.
- 6:15S1: So find out something for me. Young Thunder. When did
- 6:17S1: radios get in cars?
- 6:19S3: Oh, that's a good question.
- 6:20S1: Because it wasn't in cars.
- 6:21S3: Right, right, right. That makes sense.
- 6:24S1: You find out when did when did when did radios
- 6:26S1: get into cars?
- 6:28S3: I actually in the early 1920s, drivers started putting radios
- 6:32S3: in their cars.
- 6:33S5: No kidding.
- 6:34S3: Yes. Now it looks like it wasn't until 1930 that, uh,
- 6:39S3: it's for a first commercial car radio was. But people
- 6:42S3: adapted portable battery power sets to their radios so they
- 6:46S3: could take it in the car with them.
- 6:48S1: Okay, so they didn't have it built into the dash.
- 6:50S1: They put them in the passenger.
- 6:51S5: Seat.
- 6:52S1: Went.
- 6:52S5: Rolling down the road.
- 6:53S3: Now, it became widespread standard in the 1960s. So it
- 6:58S3: was it was first in the 1930s, but it was
- 7:01S3: very expensive and not a lot of people had it. Okay. 1960s.
- 7:06S1: Okay, let's duck into the 40s here. A little taste
- 7:08S1: of the 40s right now. And this has got a
- 7:11S1: little bit of organ music attached to it. Let's give
- 7:14S1: it a listen.
- 7:20S9: Jesus. Into my life. Oh my soul. Like the storm
- 7:26S9: billows roll. No that's that's wrong. Verse. Oh my soul.
- 7:40S9: When the storm billows roll. Jesus came into my heart. Yes.
- 7:45S2: You know the song, huh?
- 7:46S1: Yeah, I know that song.
- 7:47S4: And that was not a studio B in Carl Hall.
- 7:49S4: That was like the live organ music that they used
- 7:52S4: during the shows and in the ins and the outs
- 7:54S4: and all that good stuff.
- 7:55S3: Made me feel like I.
- 7:55S5: Blanchard.
- 7:56S2: That's the name of the organist, huh?
- 7:58S5: Yes.
- 7:58S3: Blanchard.
- 7:59S5: Wow. Oh, d.
- 8:01S3: Yeah, I know d.
- 8:02S5: No, I don't know d.
- 8:04S1: I'm old, but I'm not that old. Okay, let's duck
- 8:06S1: into the 50s. This is Bill. Bill Pearce and Dick
- 8:09S1: Anthony singing every day with Jesus. I love this song.
- 8:14S1: Come on, give it a listen.
- 8:16S7: Every day is sweeter when I walk with him. Every
- 8:22S7: day is brighter when I talk with him. His presence
- 8:26S7: ever cheers me. I know he's always near me.
- 8:32S9: I love that.
- 8:34S7: In my heart. The blessed hope I look for him.
- 8:38S1: Let em roll, let em roll.
- 8:40S7: Every day with Jesus. Jesus is greater than the day before.
- 8:49S7: Every day with Jesus. I love him more and more.
- 8:58S7: Jesus saves and keeps me. And he's the one I'm
- 9:04S7: waiting for. Every day with Jesus is sweeter than the
- 9:14S7: day before.
- 9:17S1: It's not accurate, but it's good, man. I mean, that's beautiful. Oh,
- 9:22S1: they got an ending. Sorry, guys.
- 9:24S7: I know he's always near me. In my hearts, the
- 9:31S7: blessed hope I look for him.
- 9:37S10: Those guys can sing.
- 9:38S5: Wow.
- 9:39S4: No kidding.
- 9:40S5: Wow.
- 9:42S3: The quality might have been better in the 20s.
- 9:45S1: Oh.
- 9:46S5: That's raw.
- 9:46S3: They had clearer. Uh, just just an observation. Not a
- 9:49S3: bad thing. It's interesting.
- 9:51S1: Okay, let's duck into the 60s. Little Aunt.
- 9:54S5: Teresa voice. Many of you will recognize Aunt.
- 9:57S2: Teresa and the KYB know your Bible club.
- 10:02S11: You know that song, don't you? Why not sing along
- 10:05S11: with the boys and girls?
- 10:08S12: He that loves me, this I know. For the Bible
- 10:15S12: tells me so. Little ones to him belong. They are weak,
- 10:23S12: but he is strong. Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, he
- 10:32S12: that loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me. I felt.
- 10:43S1: I heard John Gager in there.
- 10:46S5: What?
- 10:49S1: John Gager works here. Man, I heard you in there, dude.
- 10:52S1: Was that.
- 10:53S8: Live?
- 10:54S3: Yes, it had to be, I think.
- 10:55S5: Yes.
- 10:56S3: I guess they did live.
- 10:57S5: Recordings.
- 10:58S4: Live from the show.
- 11:00S5: Oh my goodness.
- 11:01S4: They brought them into the studio. Set them there on
- 11:02S4: the floor. The kids. All the kids.
- 11:04S5: That's fun.
- 11:05S4: There's pictures of Ann Teresa around the piano and all
- 11:07S4: the little kids around her feet.
- 11:09S5: Oh that's awesome. Absolutely.
- 11:10S2: That was a really popular show.
- 11:12S5: Oh my goodness.
- 11:13S1: The response we've gotten from Aunt Teresa. Overwhelming. Okay, let's
- 11:17S1: duck into the 70s now from studio B in Corolla Hall.
- 11:21S1: Take a listen.
- 11:24S13: I walk with him each day. We I let him
- 11:34S13: have full Why? Does trusting that he know what's best
- 11:48S13: for me? When he called me. Will I say he?
- 12:01S13: Here am I, Lord. Be known. See his will in
- 12:11S13: all that I do. By God's grace I will. Will you? Ooh.
- 12:26S1: We don't know her name. But she's a pitch perfect soprano.
- 12:28S3: They're really good.
- 12:30S4: And that's how they played music. Different artists, different singers
- 12:33S4: came in to the studio and.
- 12:35S3: I, like they still had live singers all the way
- 12:37S3: through the 70s.
- 12:38S5: They did. Yeah.
- 12:38S2: That's surprising.
- 12:39S3: That's really cool.
- 12:40S1: All right. Let's duck into the 80s here a little.
- 12:42S1: Mike Kellogg music through the night. You guys ready to roll?
- 12:46S5: Yes.
- 12:46S1: Let's do it.
- 12:56S14: Hello and welcome to Music Through the Night. I'm your host,
- 13:02S14: Michael Kellogg. I'd like to spend the next few hours
- 13:06S14: with you or any portion of that time. Basically, what
- 13:12S14: we'd like to do during the time together that we
- 13:15S14: have is magnify the Lord Jesus Christ to glorify him
- 13:20S14: in all that we say in the music that we play.
- 13:26S14: In the thoughts that we hear from God's Word and
- 13:30S14: from men of God. We hope that you can spend
- 13:36S14: a little bit of your time with us this evening.
- 13:40S14: It's amazing to know what God does through transformed lives,
- 13:46S14: and to experience the great joy that comes as a
- 13:49S14: result of knowing Jesus Christ as our personal Savior.
- 13:53S1: Wow. Way to go. Mike Kellogg.
- 13:56S4: And actually, that was the time they finally would bring
- 13:58S4: in albums. And actually recording artists began to go over
- 14:01S4: the airplay. I mean, you heard people like Sandi Patty,
- 14:04S4: Steve Green, the Imperials, second chapter of acts, the Cathedrals
- 14:09S4: and Hymns. Those are the sort of music you would
- 14:11S4: hear during music.
- 14:12S5: The second.
- 14:12S1: Chapter.
- 14:13S5: Of acts.
- 14:14S1: That is such a great group.
- 14:17S5: It's a great name.
- 14:18S1: You got a little bit of them loaded up.
- 14:20S3: I don't, but I can search here. Diana can take
- 14:23S3: a look. She's got all her.
- 14:24S1: We gotta get a little second chapter of acts in here.
- 14:27S1: I love that or the lamb chops.
- 14:29S15: He was running from God. but God's love brought him home.
- 14:33S15: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
- 14:37S15: Moody Radio.
- 14:38S2: And I mean, when people are sleepless or people who
- 14:41S2: work an odd shift. And his voice was so comforting.
- 14:45S2: And then he had a. I just found out from
- 14:47S2: Phil Shepherd this week that he was a pastor.
- 14:50S5: Yeah.
- 14:51S3: Oh, was.
- 14:51S5: He really.
- 14:51S1: Pastor.
- 14:52S2: Ordained pastor? Yeah.
- 14:53S3: He also sounds like he could be Captain Kirk in
- 14:57S3: Star Trek space.
- 14:59S2: Young.
- 15:00S5: Thunder, the final frontier.
- 15:04S15: Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.
- 15:08S15: You're listening to Carl and crew. I miss.
- 15:13S1: This guy. Sometimes I still have Phil withdrawals, and it's
- 15:19S1: usually when something breaks around here. Ali.
- 15:22S2: Phil Shepherd, he is in studio with us once again.
- 15:25S2: He served for over 30 years as National operations manager
- 15:29S2: of Moody Radio. So yeah, he was a good guy
- 15:31S2: to have around. Oh, who knew how everything worked. He's
- 15:35S2: a moody audio archive expert, and he has co-authored this book.
- 15:40S2: This is Moody radio 100 years proclaiming the gospel. This
- 15:43S2: is the this is the book of the month. As
- 15:46S2: we celebrate 100 years of Moody Radio.
- 15:49S1: Phil, so awesome to have you with us, my man.
- 15:52S1: Let's jump in the deep end. What makes Moody Radio
- 15:57S1: tick in a way that we can go for 100
- 16:00S1: years and keep going strong.
- 16:02S16: It started with a heart for God. It started with
- 16:07S16: a message that God loves people, broken people. He loves them.
- 16:14S16: And he sent His son to this earth to give
- 16:17S16: us a salvation so rich and free. And the desire
- 16:22S16: was we want everyone to know him. That was the first.
- 16:26S16: It was the lyrics of the first song sung on
- 16:29S16: Wednesday night, July 28th, 1926.
- 16:33S1: You sound like you were there, but that's not possible.
- 16:35S16: Well, it was in the Chicago Tribune the next morning
- 16:38S16: on the front page. And I'm serious. And the reporter,
- 16:43S16: he he reviewed two new radio stations. He said the
- 16:46S16: first one and the second one. Excellence. Pure tone in
- 16:51S16: the music. The delivery. Yeah, the Chicago.
- 16:54S1: That made it on the Trib.
- 16:55S16: Oh, yeah. We have it in the book.
- 16:57S2: Now, talk about the way the music was played in
- 17:00S2: the early years, because it's easy to miss this because
- 17:04S2: for so long we've been spinning records or now just
- 17:07S2: pressing a button. But the music of Moody Radio in
- 17:11S2: the 1920s a little bit different.
- 17:14S16: The music that we have now. Now, obviously in different media,
- 17:17S16: we have it electronically the 90s, the 2000, the CD,
- 17:22S16: the audio cassette, the reel to reel, the records. That
- 17:26S16: only goes back about 75 years. So go back another
- 17:29S16: 25 years. You had music if you performed it live,
- 17:34S16: and one of the issues that confronted Christian radio stations
- 17:37S16: in the early days, by the way, Moody Radio was
- 17:40S16: not the first station. It was actually number 70, but
- 17:43S16: there were many that came to life, but they couldn't
- 17:46S16: sustain it because they didn't have the deep reserves in
- 17:50S16: talent that a Moody Bible Institute had in faculty and
- 17:55S16: student musicians. And so we had that that deep, that
- 17:58S16: deep reserve of people. But everything was live. If you
- 18:02S16: did not have a musician, an orchestra or instrumentalist in
- 18:06S16: the studio with you, you were talking.
- 18:09S1: You know, there's a cabinet somewhere around here, Phil, and
- 18:11S1: you showed it to me one time and you were
- 18:14S1: so you're like a kid in a candy shop, and
- 18:16S1: it's all these devices that made these different sounds. Tell
- 18:21S1: us about that cabinet, Phil.
- 18:22S16: I mean, that's what's called a folio cabinet up in
- 18:25S16: studio B and throughout the years, yes. If you needed
- 18:29S16: to have the sound of somebody walking on the gravel,
- 18:33S16: you had a little box that had gravel. If you
- 18:36S16: needed to have someone that sounds like they're walking in grass, well,
- 18:39S16: you bundle up a bunch of audiotape and put it
- 18:42S16: in there and you just squeeze it with your hands
- 18:45S16: and it sounds like it. So you learn, and I'm
- 18:48S16: sure knowledge was shared among the radio community, but if
- 18:51S16: you wanted to make a sound, you had to make it.
- 18:53S16: You were trying to make the theater of the mind alive.
- 18:57S16: I mean, you listen to the old time radio and
- 19:00S16: they just captivate. You can shut your eyes and you're there.
- 19:03S16: Great programs that many have put out. I mean, Moody
- 19:06S16: got involved in drama in the early 1940s, right after
- 19:10S16: the start of World War Two. We did some dramatizations,
- 19:15S16: but miracles and melodies in 1940, number nine, Elm Street
- 19:19S16: in 42. So these are people that that had learned
- 19:24S16: to hone their craft. But the most important thing to
- 19:28S16: hear from those who were there at the very beginning,
- 19:31S16: in their interviews in 1976, after 50 years, was we
- 19:36S16: didn't know what we were doing. We had no one
- 19:38S16: to follow. We everything was trial by error.
- 19:43S1: Beautiful.
- 19:43S16: Yeah.
- 19:44S2: You know, one of the things that people from Moody
- 19:47S2: radios past that I hear most about is music through
- 19:52S2: the night with Mike Kellogg. To this day, that remains.
- 19:56S5: You're right.
- 19:56S2: One of the. Because it represents so many people who
- 20:00S2: say it got me through so many hard nights, the
- 20:03S2: music and Mike Kellogg's voice. Talk a little bit about that.
- 20:06S16: Well, Mike always used to take comfort, uh, for a
- 20:09S16: radio person to say this. I put a lot of
- 20:12S16: people to sleep. He liked that, but, uh, but he
- 20:16S16: approached it very seriously. Mike was an ordained minister. I
- 20:22S16: don't know if you knew that or not. And so
- 20:23S16: he had a pastoral heart. He wanted to speak to
- 20:26S16: the people. But Mike came here in 1971 and he
- 20:30S16: was working in drama. He had worked at a newspaper.
- 20:33S16: He wanted to be a writer, but that didn't happen.
- 20:36S16: He became the director of drama here. And so many
- 20:40S16: of the dramas throughout the 1970s, Mike was the person responsible,
- 20:45S16: but they tapped him on the shoulder in 1980 and
- 20:49S16: asked him, would you take over the continued story reading
- 20:53S16: program that started at the very beginning? Wendell Lovelace did
- 20:56S16: it for 20 years until 1947, and then Myron Canedy,
- 21:01S16: a name that you probably haven't heard for a long time.
- 21:04S16: He played the role of Ranger Bill, which was that
- 21:06S16: program that played for 60 years in syndication. But Myron
- 21:11S16: did it all the way up to 1978, and he retired.
- 21:14S16: But while he's doing this continued story. He would read
- 21:18S16: directly from a book for a half hour every day
- 21:21S16: on the air. They said, you know what? We need
- 21:24S16: somebody on our brand new network reaching across North America.
- 21:28S16: We need somebody to speak to people in the overnight hours.
- 21:32S16: And that's what Mike did starting in May of 1982,
- 21:35S16: a long time.
- 21:36S1: It's amazing. Phil Schappert is our guest here right now. Phil,
- 21:40S1: 100 years is a strange question. You probably haven't been
- 21:44S1: asked it. What have been some of the threats that
- 21:46S1: have been posed to Moody Radio in 100 years as
- 21:50S1: you've done your study, what have we been up against?
- 21:54S16: Well, I mentioned the Chicago Tribune, July 29th, 1926, and
- 22:00S16: on that day, officials from WGN came and said, you
- 22:06S16: have to shut the station down. So day one or
- 22:09S16: day two, we were told that we had to cease operation.
- 22:14S16: Henry Coleman Crowell was the son of Mr. Crowell, the
- 22:17S16: chairman of the board and founder of Quaker Oats. But
- 22:20S16: Henry was a recent graduate of Yale. Electrical engineer, and
- 22:25S16: he's the one who was behind the start of this.
- 22:28S16: And he was so knowledgeable that when they told him
- 22:32S16: that you have to shut the station down on day two, uh,
- 22:35S16: he said, uh, no, no, we we we don't need
- 22:38S16: to do that. Uh, we're running within tolerance. And you
- 22:41S16: know what? He was right. And, uh, there was a
- 22:44S16: lot of competition in those days. It was the wild,
- 22:47S16: wild West. People were throwing frequencies up and, you know,
- 22:50S16: and throwing them on the on the wall and seeing
- 22:53S16: which ones stuck. What was interesting there was a, uh,
- 22:57S16: kind of a, an acknowledgement, uh, within the industry of
- 23:02S16: the top ten stations, uh, based upon excellence and technical
- 23:06S16: and WMBI in Chicago was on that list.
- 23:10S1: Amazing.
- 23:11S16: Guess who wasn't.
- 23:13S1: WGN.
- 23:14S16: WGN was it? Yeah, so that was day one. But
- 23:18S16: now in those days you shared frequencies and we really
- 23:24S16: coveted the some of the evening time hours, but we
- 23:27S16: were getting segments and we started off at, uh, at 1080, uh,
- 23:33S16: a m we, we got shifted around, um, toward the
- 23:37S16: end of 1927, we were sharing a frequency with WJAZ
- 23:43S16: jazz owned by the Zenith Radio Corporation. And, uh, and
- 23:48S16: they were wanting to sell the station to us and
- 23:51S16: that way basically buy out your competition, you get more time. And, uh, Mr.
- 23:56S16: Kroll and others, they examined the equipment and they just said, no,
- 24:00S16: we're not going to do that. We're going to apply
- 24:03S16: for a superstation. And they applied in, in August of 1927,
- 24:09S16: got the construction permit. Now they had to leave the
- 24:12S16: downtown Chicago transmitter, which was on top of the current
- 24:15S16: Smith Hall. We still have today. That's where the transmitter
- 24:18S16: was up in a little shack on top there. And
- 24:21S16: they strung 100 foot towers between two buildings here. And
- 24:25S16: that was the antenna, five, 500W. But I mean, that
- 24:28S16: 500W in those days with no other frequencies covered, it
- 24:32S16: covered a lot. Big area. So they bought land. There's
- 24:36S16: a piece of property out about two miles to the
- 24:39S16: southwest of Addison, Illinois. So they bought that land. They
- 24:43S16: built that station and had it on the air in
- 24:46S16: January 20th of 1928, went from 500W downtown to 5000W.
- 24:52S16: And this thing covered all of North America. We had
- 24:56S16: an Easter service one time that a Calcutta, India said
- 25:01S16: that they could hear it. We had. I've got letters
- 25:03S16: from people, ships at sea, people out in the Great
- 25:07S16: Lakes big steamer. The person was acknowledging that they were
- 25:10S16: listening to to it. Our former news director for many years,
- 25:14S16: Walter Carlson. He would listen out in Spokane, Washington, off
- 25:18S16: of the station running from Addison, Illinois.
- 25:20S1: Boy, you don't want to stand close to that to
- 25:22S1: curl your hair.
- 25:24S2: Phil Shapard, our guest this morning. I want to point
- 25:26S2: you to a couple different things. We've got a key
- 25:28S2: word for you. Birthday to 800 555 7898. As we
- 25:34S2: celebrate 100 years of Moody Radio. There's a. We've created
- 25:37S2: a dedicated website allows you to find this book. This
- 25:40S2: is Moody radio 100 years of Proclaiming the gospel. And
- 25:43S2: then also share your story with us. I know some
- 25:46S2: of you have been with us for a lot of years,
- 25:48S2: and this is a walk down memory lane. We want
- 25:50S2: to hear from you too, though. Your stories, your memories,
- 25:54S2: the impact Moody Radio has made on your family. Just
- 25:57S2: text birthday to 805 557898.
- 26:01S1: Phil, one last question. What is the most important thing
- 26:06S1: that you want our listeners, new and old to know
- 26:10S1: from you right now?
- 26:12S16: I believe that the most important thing is to show up,
- 26:17S16: to show up. If you see God at work in
- 26:19S16: your life now I'm borrowing, borrowing from Henry Blackaby. If
- 26:22S16: you see God at work in your life around you
- 26:25S16: and the people, it's usually his invitation for you to
- 26:27S16: join in it. I've always loved that concept, and what
- 26:30S16: I see here are people who didn't know what they
- 26:34S16: were doing, but yet they knew inside that this was
- 26:37S16: going to advance the gospel in the lives of thousands.
- 26:41S16: I mean, multiple, multiple, multiple. The classroom where you've got
- 26:45S16: 20 people. We started radio school of the Bible, and
- 26:49S16: all of a sudden we're broadcasting to tens of thousands,
- 26:52S16: if not hundreds of thousands of people, and they're getting
- 26:54S16: certificates through the mail for their their coursework. So it
- 26:58S16: was showing up. It was being faithful to what you had.
- 27:02S16: And then having a spirit, a pioneering spirit of innovation
- 27:07S16: that says, if we can do this, maybe we can
- 27:09S16: do that. And to think to go from one station
- 27:12S16: at 500W, to go all the way to an international
- 27:16S16: global ministry, that Moody Radio is today, because people were
- 27:20S16: faithful at each juncture along the way.
- 27:23S1: Phil Shapard everybody again, that key word birthday. And in that,
- 27:27S1: you're going to get a couple of things, an opportunity
- 27:29S1: to respond and a first look for you at this
- 27:32S1: is Moody Radio, brand new release, 100 Years of Proclaiming
- 27:37S1: the Gospel. Check it out. Text birthday to 805 557898.
- 27:46S15: Your shot of hope to get you through the day.
- 27:49S4: You are so, so loved. God does not want you
- 27:53S4: to stay in your past, and I want you to
- 27:55S4: know and believe that today.
- 27:56S15: You're listening to Carl and crew.
- 27:58S1: Knowing that Christ is risen and Knowing that Christ is risen.
- 28:05S1: Those are two different things, Ali and J.
- 28:08S2: Warner. Wallace. You know, his ministry is to really help
- 28:11S2: equip people with not just what they believe, but understanding
- 28:16S2: why they believe.
- 28:18S1: One of the best apologists out there.
- 28:19S2: I am such a big fan.
- 28:21S17: You are a huge fan of this guy.
- 28:23S1: What do you love most about this dude?
- 28:25S2: I think just the clinical. I mean, when you're when
- 28:28S2: you're a homicide, la homicide detective, you're not, like, really
- 28:33S2: an emotions first guy.
- 28:36S5: No.
- 28:36S1: You're all. It's almost. And I don't mean this in
- 28:40S1: a degrading way. Demeaning way. But there's a certain calculated
- 28:45S1: ness to him that almost makes it feel like robotic,
- 28:48S1: but filled with the spirit. So it's, like, filled with
- 28:51S1: the spirit.
- 28:52S2: Spirit filled truth. And I think his personality and his
- 28:56S2: approach appeals to other people who may not consider themselves
- 29:00S2: like super emotional. They're kind of a. Just give me
- 29:03S2: just the facts, ma'am. And so when he sorted it
- 29:06S2: all out when he was 35 years old and had
- 29:09S2: to really take a look at is it true, he said,
- 29:12S2: I didn't become a Christian because like, I felt like
- 29:15S2: there was this deep need in my life. I became
- 29:17S2: a Christian because it was true. And so it was like, yeah,
- 29:21S2: that's a good reason to become a Christian.
- 29:23S1: You know what's funny about that? I would imagine most
- 29:26S1: homicide detectives don't see their need for much of anything
- 29:31S1: just by nature of who these guys are.
- 29:35S2: That was him all the way. And he'd be the
- 29:37S2: first one to tell you it was true. And so
- 29:39S2: then I had to confront. What am I going to
- 29:41S2: do with the fact that this thing that I know
- 29:43S2: is true kind of runs up against everything I've built
- 29:46S2: my life on.
- 29:47S1: Oh, buckle up, grab that swig of water. We got J. Warner,
- 29:52S1: Wallace ducking in.
- 29:54S15: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and
- 29:57S15: Crew podcast wherever you like to stream J Warner.
- 30:00S1: Wallace. I'm dying to know this. I've never asked you this.
- 30:04S1: What's the coolest cold case you ever broke on? The
- 30:08S1: smallest fragment of evidence to break that case wide open.
- 30:13S18: Oh, gosh. Um, well, I had a case one time
- 30:16S18: that I. We broke because the guy left a piece
- 30:19S18: of shoe foam at the crime scene, and it sat
- 30:22S18: there for 30 years. No one could figure out what
- 30:23S18: this piece of foam was. And it turns out he
- 30:26S18: was the kind of guy who didn't untie his boots
- 30:28S18: and he would just slip them off and on, and
- 30:31S18: he wore out the back of the boot. And when
- 30:33S18: he was kneeling down after he had killed this girl
- 30:35S18: to take money out of her purse, his heel rose
- 30:38S18: up on the back of his boot and popped out
- 30:41S18: the foam. And it was laying at the crime scene.
- 30:43S18: And it was. And people were looking at that for
- 30:45S18: years and couldn't figure out what it was. And we
- 30:47S18: ultimately found the boot. Uh, this is 30 years later.
- 30:51S18: We found the boot where the foam came from. And
- 30:54S18: it also showed that every other pair of shoes he
- 30:56S18: had was messed up that way. So he just had
- 30:58S18: this pattern, you know? And sure enough, that was that
- 31:01S18: piece of foam ended up being the deal killer for him.
- 31:04S5: What do you.
- 31:05S1: What do you guys do when you find evidence like that?
- 31:08S1: Is it just high fives all around? I mean, that's
- 31:11S1: got to be pretty exhilarating.
- 31:13S18: Oh, no, it definitely was. I'm. I'm feeling from the
- 31:15S18: very beginning was if I can just put this to
- 31:17S18: this guy in any way, if it came off his shoulder,
- 31:19S18: if it came off his backpack, we just got to
- 31:21S18: figure out where did this foam come from because it
- 31:23S18: was clearly not part of the crime scene. So it
- 31:25S18: wasn't part of the scene before the crime. So. So
- 31:27S18: we knew it had to belong to the suspect. So
- 31:29S18: when that happens, it was as a matter of fact,
- 31:31S18: that case was not my first cold case, but it
- 31:34S18: was the case that ultimately convinced our agency to open
- 31:37S18: up a cold case team for about a decade.
- 31:39S5: Wow.
- 31:39S18: It was good.
- 31:40S5: Okay.
- 31:41S1: Anyone else glad I asked that question?
- 31:43S5: How about them apples? That's fascinating.
- 31:45S1: So now you get this regenerated J. Warner. Wallace who?
- 31:49S1: God just rocks your soul. What in the world spurred
- 31:53S1: you on to take this? really trade tools of the
- 31:57S1: trade and apply it to this newfound faith. And in fact,
- 32:00S1: you leveraged it before you even came to Christ, right?
- 32:03S18: Oh, absolutely. Like anybody else, if you're somebody who, let's
- 32:07S18: say you're a just a historian or you're a teacher
- 32:09S18: of philosophy, okay, well, then when you come to the Gospels,
- 32:12S18: you're reading it through that lens. That's who you are.
- 32:14S18: So the same was true for me. I, I was,
- 32:16S18: I had this skill set about eyewitness accounts. And people
- 32:19S18: will say all the time to me, well, these aren't
- 32:21S18: eyewitness accounts. Well, look, when we have an eyewitness, we
- 32:24S18: don't just give them a piece of paper and tell him,
- 32:26S18: write down your account. We interview him and we write
- 32:29S18: the account. And so what you have is a supplemental
- 32:32S18: report written by a detective who's basically quoting what the
- 32:36S18: witness says. Well, same thing is happening with Luke. He says,
- 32:38S18: I'm talking to the eyewitnesses and servants of the word,
- 32:41S18: and I'm writing the account doesn't have to be written
- 32:43S18: by the eyewitness in order to be an eyewitness account.
- 32:46S18: That's just the nature of all of our supplemental reports. So.
- 32:50S18: So I just knew that was a process I could apply.
- 32:52S18: And this is the thing that I think is fascinating. Well, yeah,
- 32:55S18: we can go to the scriptures for sure and talk
- 32:57S18: about what the scriptures say about hope, and that's what
- 33:00S18: we should be doing. But isn't it interesting that the
- 33:02S18: Bible describes the world the way it really is, and
- 33:05S18: what it describes about hope we know is true even
- 33:08S18: if we didn't have a Bible. There are studies now
- 33:11S18: that have shown how some people have more hope than others,
- 33:15S18: and what it is that gives them that hope. And
- 33:17S18: often it is. It is really a view of the
- 33:20S18: world that includes some sense that we have an expectation
- 33:25S18: of a life after this one. Yeah. As a matter
- 33:28S18: of fact, people who have a sense that we will
- 33:30S18: live beyond the grave, thrive, and they have much more hope.
- 33:35S18: They behave differently, even under critical illnesses. And of all
- 33:39S18: the ways that this happens, Christianity is the best. You
- 33:42S18: know what they call it? They call it the persisting self.
- 33:45S18: People who have a strong view of what is called
- 33:49S18: the persisting self after you die have a better sense
- 33:53S18: of hope, especially as as they're aging. And so, for example,
- 33:58S18: other views have a sense that you might have a
- 34:00S18: life after this one, but you don't persist the you
- 34:03S18: that you know. So, for example, if you're a Buddhist,
- 34:06S18: they don't believe in the existence of self at all.
- 34:09S18: According to Buddhism, your sense of self is just an illusion. Yeah, right.
- 34:12S18: That's why for that reason, you're not going to extend
- 34:14S18: beyond your mortal existence because they don't have a sense
- 34:17S18: of self. Hinduism argues for a reincarnation of self. So yes,
- 34:22S18: the self there's another version of self, but it's not you.
- 34:25S18: That's why it's not the persisting you that moves on.
- 34:29S18: It's a reincarnated, a completely different self. Of course, atheism
- 34:34S18: offers for no persistent self beyond the grave. But what
- 34:37S18: does Christianity offer? It offers this sense that you will
- 34:41S18: still be you, the you that you know will persist
- 34:43S18: beyond the grave. That's so and so. It turns out
- 34:47S18: that sense of persisting itself is what the you know,
- 34:51S18: what non-believers call it. But the reality of it is,
- 34:53S18: is we believe there is a persisting self and that's
- 34:55S18: why we thrive. It. We should. Now, look, does that
- 34:57S18: mean every Christian is going to thrive? No. There are
- 34:59S18: lots of Christians you and I know who don't have hope.
- 35:01S18: And it's likely because they are not leaning in to
- 35:05S18: what Scripture teaches. So there's a connection, like you said
- 35:08S18: before we started talking here, between your sense of how
- 35:11S18: much do I know about Scripture? What does Scripture teach
- 35:14S18: and how does it affect the way I live?
- 35:15S5: Yeah.
- 35:16S2: J Warner Wallace, our guest right now, he's a Dateline
- 35:18S2: featured cold case, homicide detective, popular national speaker, podcast host,
- 35:23S2: bestselling author, cold case Christianity. You know, you mentioned a
- 35:27S2: couple of different worldviews, religions, belief systems. And one thing
- 35:31S2: that I've heard you say often, which I think is
- 35:33S2: really helpful for understanding your perspective, that when you ask
- 35:36S2: people why they believe anything, whether they are an atheist
- 35:40S2: or a Buddhist or a Christian, surprisingly, people give very
- 35:45S2: similar answers. Tell us what those answers are and why
- 35:48S2: that is important for us to understand.
- 35:51S18: Well, the answer is, sadly, the most popular answer is
- 35:53S18: I was raised that way. But the second most popular
- 35:56S18: answer is probably in some ways not much better. You
- 35:59S18: can be raised some way and not be raised in
- 36:00S18: the truth. I mean, that's clearly most of us who
- 36:02S18: would say we were atheists for years, but that was
- 36:05S18: probably our situation. But the second popular answer is, well,
- 36:08S18: I've had an experience that demonstrates for me that this
- 36:11S18: view of the world is true. I prayed a prayer.
- 36:13S18: It was answered. I had something that seemed to me
- 36:15S18: to be so unlikely it could happen by natural causes
- 36:19S18: that it had to be God. But the problem, of course,
- 36:22S18: is that everyone who believes in any version of God
- 36:25S18: that is still their most popular answer to. So if
- 36:29S18: we're going to say it was my experience, well, this
- 36:32S18: is what my my Mormon friends would do. They would
- 36:33S18: go door to door in their missions trip, and at
- 36:35S18: some point they're going to share their personal experience. Well,
- 36:38S18: of course they would have to do that because you
- 36:40S18: cannot share the historical accuracy of the Book of Mormon
- 36:44S18: because it's not historically accurate. I know I say that
- 36:47S18: in a show like this where so many of us now, um,
- 36:50S18: so many people who are raised LDS would say, well,
- 36:54S18: we're Christians too. But to be honest, the dividing line
- 36:57S18: for Christianity is, well, do you believe in the triune
- 36:59S18: nature of the Godhead? Yeah, because the triune formulation, the Trinity,
- 37:03S18: is the deal killer. It separates us from from Mormons,
- 37:06S18: from LDS Latter day Saints. And we would say that
- 37:09S18: that's outside the boundary of what we believe as Christians. So,
- 37:13S18: so they really are a different group. And they would
- 37:15S18: say that they came to their experience because they read
- 37:17S18: the Book of Mormon, they prayed about it, and they
- 37:19S18: had an experience that demonstrated it was true. That's why
- 37:22S18: we have to be very careful of unchecked experiences. We
- 37:26S18: have to measure the experience against something that we know.
- 37:30S18: Whatever worldview you hold, if you want to think that
- 37:32S18: Buddhism is true, fine, then you're going to be measuring
- 37:34S18: your experience against the scriptures of Buddhism. So you have
- 37:38S18: to measure our experience against something. And that's why I
- 37:42S18: think we have to do more than just have an experience.
- 37:44S18: We have to know what is biblically true, isn't it?
- 37:46S1: Yeah. Just a quick comment. Isn't it fascinating, Jay Warner,
- 37:50S1: that you can take a Greek article, a a god
- 37:53S1: and twist the entire Trinity in a heartbeat, my friend.
- 37:59S18: No, there's no doubt about this. And I've been podcasting
- 38:01S18: about this year because I think that this idea is,
- 38:04S18: is Jesus just the most important first creation of God,
- 38:09S18: or is he God incarnate? And if he's God incarnate,
- 38:12S18: that creates all kinds of problems for monotheism, unless the
- 38:15S18: Trinity is true, right? So, so we have, and it
- 38:18S18: makes sense because your experience, it turns out the thing
- 38:20S18: that defines us as humans largely is our sense of
- 38:24S18: desire for relationship and community. Well, why do we have this?
- 38:28S18: Why it seems sometimes like you'd be better off if
- 38:30S18: you could just figure out how to, to be independent
- 38:32S18: of the relationships that that hurt you. But the reality
- 38:35S18: of it is you have no you're created in the
- 38:37S18: image of a triune God who has been in relationship
- 38:40S18: from all eternity. If Allah is God, he would only
- 38:44S18: know about relationships once he creates something to relate to.
- 38:48S18: In other words, he would have to learn about love
- 38:50S18: when he creates the first object he could love. But
- 38:54S18: this isn't true for for Yahweh. He's been in a
- 38:56S18: triune love relationship from all eternity. That sense that you have,
- 39:01S18: that you desire, that kind of relationship is in you.
- 39:04S18: Because we are created in the image of a God
- 39:07S18: who is love. And that's what the. The Trinity explains
- 39:11S18: that passage when we say that God is not. It's
- 39:13S18: not that God learned how to love or God could
- 39:16S18: create love. It's that God has been in this love
- 39:19S18: relationship from all eternity.
- 39:21S1: Let us make man in our image. Okay, coming up here.
- 39:25S1: J Warner Wallace. We're going to throw you a fastball here.
- 39:28S1: You're a cold case guy. You can handle it. Give
- 39:30S1: us the top five evidences of the risen Jesus. I'm
- 39:34S1: just hitting them cold, guys. He'll have it. He'll handle
- 39:37S1: it straight ahead.
- 39:39S15: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you
- 39:42S15: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
- 39:46S15: curl and crew on Moody Radio.
- 39:49S1: With this right now special guest J. Warner. Wallace all right, J.
- 39:54S1: Warner let's go. My man. Give us the top five.
- 39:57S1: From your perspective of great evidences of the resurrection of
- 40:01S1: Christ that will instill hope into us today.
- 40:04S18: Well, okay, a couple of things here. I would say
- 40:06S18: I take a view that's very much driven by my
- 40:08S18: investigative work. So, number one, they're written early. The documents
- 40:12S18: are written early. Any claim that the documents are written
- 40:14S18: after the lives of eyewitnesses is really based on a prejudice,
- 40:18S18: because they mention things that are so prophetic that people
- 40:21S18: don't want to believe that somebody could actually, you know,
- 40:24S18: predict the destruction of the temple. I've shown Cold Case Christianity,
- 40:28S18: the book I wrote that you can date these back
- 40:30S18: within the lifetime of eyewitnesses. And there are many scholars
- 40:33S18: who also agree that you can date these back to
- 40:36S18: within the lifetime of eyewitnesses. Why is that important? Because
- 40:38S18: if you want to lie about Jesus, the best thing
- 40:40S18: to do is to wait till everyone knows the truth
- 40:42S18: is dead. But if you're doing this while people are
- 40:45S18: still alive, who can call you out? That is very risky.
- 40:48S18: And these are written, I think, within the late 40s.
- 40:51S18: The first I think Mark, for example, comes up pretty late.
- 40:53S18: I mean, pretty early, rather in the late 40s, early 50s.
- 40:57S18: And I can show you how the things that are
- 40:58S18: missing from the book of acts demonstrate that it's written
- 41:01S18: before those things happened and those things happened in the 60s.
- 41:05S18: So you've got good reason to believe that the book
- 41:07S18: is written early. That's number one. So that's the first
- 41:10S18: test of eyewitnesses. Number two, it hasn't changed over time.
- 41:13S18: Now changing over time is the idea that you have
- 41:15S18: a legend that grows, that Jesus, the resurrection, is just
- 41:18S18: this late legend. But here's the problem. It's not late.
- 41:21S18: We already know that. And it's not legendary because we
- 41:24S18: can trace what was said about Jesus from John through
- 41:27S18: his disciples Ignatius and Polycarp and Papias to their disciple
- 41:31S18: Irenaeus to his disciple Hippolytus, you can trace the story
- 41:35S18: of Jesus through time. And what you're going to find
- 41:37S18: is that every remarkable, crazy, miraculous aspect of the Jesus
- 41:41S18: story starts early, doesn't change. You don't have to believe it,
- 41:45S18: but you cannot argue it's a late legend because it's
- 41:48S18: not legendary. Three. They can be corroborated. Remember, corroboration is
- 41:52S18: all touch point corroboration. I'm not going to have a
- 41:54S18: video that shows him doing it from a cold case
- 41:56S18: in 1970. But I can tell you there's enough touch
- 41:59S18: point corroboration in here. We have lots of good archaeological
- 42:03S18: touchpoint evidence that demonstrates that some of the things that
- 42:05S18: were doubted, for example, in the book of acts for
- 42:08S18: hundreds of years, people doubted things that only Luke mentions
- 42:12S18: in this one document. But now we have good archaeological
- 42:15S18: support to to support the claims of of Luke in
- 42:19S18: the book of acts.
- 42:20S5: Healing pools.
- 42:21S1: In the.
- 42:21S5: Lake.
- 42:22S18: Yeah. That's another good reason. For example, to the pool
- 42:25S18: that is mentioned in John that was destroyed in 70 A.D.
- 42:28S18: yet he's mentioning it as though it still exists to
- 42:31S18: his reader. Another good evidence. This is written before 70 AD.
- 42:34S18: So there's lots of these kinds of things and touch
- 42:36S18: point evidence. Also just the internal consistency. It turns out
- 42:40S18: that the people who write the Bibles happen to know
- 42:42S18: what the most popular names are of people who live
- 42:45S18: in the region, whereas people who write the false gospels
- 42:48S18: in Egypt, they don't know the names of the people.
- 42:51S18: They don't mention cities specifically. They didn't know the region well.
- 42:54S18: There's all kinds of internal corroboration also. That's in the Gospels.
- 42:59S18: Fourth thing, they lack a motive. Like they didn't gain
- 43:02S18: anything out of the three areas that people will try
- 43:05S18: to gain something in order. That's why they tell their
- 43:07S18: lie to begin with. Sex, money and power. Those are
- 43:10S18: the three reasons why anyone tells a lie. Yet these
- 43:13S18: like like Paul, for example, who writes more New Testament
- 43:16S18: books than anyone else. What is he getting out of
- 43:18S18: this in those three areas? These people didn't even have
- 43:21S18: the ability to stop their own deaths for making these claims. Now,
- 43:25S18: you and I, we might say we'd be willing to
- 43:27S18: die for what we don't know is a lie. But
- 43:29S18: this is the group that would have known if it's
- 43:31S18: a lie. So when people are willing to die for that,
- 43:34S18: that that generation matters. We don't matter so much. Our
- 43:37S18: willingness to die because lots of people die for what
- 43:40S18: they don't know is a lie. But these people would
- 43:42S18: have known if it was a lie. So that's number four.
- 43:44S18: Number five. It turns out if the Bible is true,
- 43:47S18: it ought to describe you the way that you really are.
- 43:51S18: And it does. It is accurate. So biblical anthropology is
- 43:55S18: another line of evidence we can use to demonstrate that
- 43:58S18: it's true. Number. Let's go to six. It turns out
- 44:01S18: that if Jesus is the God who created the world,
- 44:04S18: when he steps into his creation, he ought to have
- 44:06S18: more impact on history than any other person. And if
- 44:11S18: you will simply examine the impact of Jesus and his
- 44:14S18: followers on science, on art, on music, on education, on
- 44:20S18: on medicine. Yeah. I mean, you go on, you go
- 44:23S18: on and on. You will see that no one has
- 44:26S18: impacted the world, the world that we live in today.
- 44:28S18: Even the things that you would say as an atheist
- 44:30S18: that you care about art, music, literature, education, science, those
- 44:34S18: things are radically changed by Jesus and his followers because
- 44:38S18: he is the God who created us to begin with.
- 44:41S18: And finally, if you were to look at the number
- 44:42S18: of ways to describe the empty tomb, and I looked
- 44:46S18: at all of the atheist theories, it turns out the
- 44:49S18: Christian view is the absolute most as the most explanatory power.
- 44:53S18: If you simply remove your bias against anything supernatural to
- 44:57S18: begin with. And there's the problem. This is why, for example,
- 45:00S18: there are like 6 or 7 atheist explanations for the
- 45:04S18: empty tomb. You know why? Because they know they don't work.
- 45:07S18: If you hold on to to explanation one, it's because
- 45:10S18: you reject two, three, four, five, and six from your
- 45:13S18: atheist friends. That's true. Those those explanations don't work. That's
- 45:16S18: why there are so many of them. If you'll simply
- 45:19S18: reject this idea that there's nothing outside of space, time
- 45:22S18: and matter. And there's good reason, even if you're an atheist,
- 45:25S18: to believe there's something outside of space, time and matter.
- 45:27S18: You believe that the universe was created, that it begins,
- 45:31S18: and that there is no space, time and matter before
- 45:33S18: it began. So that means whatever causes it has to
- 45:36S18: be outside of space, time and matter. The only question is,
- 45:39S18: is that cause the God that's described on the pages
- 45:42S18: of scripture.
- 45:43S5: Yes.
- 45:43S18: Yeah. And so that's, that's just a thumbnail sketch of
- 45:46S18: what I would say.
- 45:46S5: Thumbnail. Thumbnail that's called.
- 45:49S1: Fire.
- 45:49S5: Hose thumbnail. That's beautiful.
- 45:52S2: J Warner Wallace, our guest. He has written quite a
- 45:54S2: few books. He mentioned Cold Case Christianity, one of his
- 45:57S2: most popular. He also has a podcast, a blog, a
- 46:01S2: lot of resources on his website. I'm looking at it
- 46:03S2: right now. If you spent just a couple of minutes
- 46:06S2: going through some of what's there, you're, you're, I believe
- 46:10S2: you're going to have some hope rising, particularly if you
- 46:12S2: have questions or maybe you have friends who have questions
- 46:15S2: and you've struggled to kind of know how to answer them.
- 46:18S2: Text case to (800) 555-7898. Text case (800) 555-7898.