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The Trial of Victor Creed! With Joe Jones, Allison Parent, Justin Wilder, Matt Parent, and Scott Free! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grimmolkin Lane podcast where queer friends and allies gathered to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: And once a month we get to have a big giant academic trial.
• 0:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Today, it is trial of Victor Creed Saber 2.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: A character, you are sure to have a lot of feelings about.
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: I kind of think I just used to not like him very much, but now I feel like an expert on him in some ways, but also I still don't like him.
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: So, I think all of that can exist in one place.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is my early episode content warning for today.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't do these super often, but we are gonna be talking about sensitive issues.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber Tooth, for example, is a character that's known as a predator and a threat to women and the vulnerable directly.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: There are lots of on-panel horrible murders, of vulnerable people, and delusions towards sexual assault.
• 0:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: There is blood and gore associated with this character and a lot of saber to content over the years.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to be having some robust conversations, of course with the appropriate sensitivity, but there will be some discussion about horrible things.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: When we're doing the prosecutions and defense later in the episode, I always like to say, let's not try to justify any kind of sexual assault.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: Murder, I think we can get around sometimes, but let's air on the side of a PC in that space.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, let's jump right in.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Think of what you love about Wolverine.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's got lots of traits and characteristics, but it's his appearance that gets you first.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: The short stature, the broad back, the yellow and black, and that cowl, but even more that insane hair, the body hair, the claws, snick snack.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wolverine is a feral cat ready to pounce.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber tooth, he's a fucking tiger.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: That thick blonde hair, those bushy eyebrows, he's just massive, but he's also fucking fast.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's fast and he's strong.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's got that massive jawline with the brown and orange costume and animal patterns, skin tight, that ruffled fur collar.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's enormous.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's always
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: as a glint in his eye, and his fangued smile as he shows you his razor sharp claws.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the trial of Victor Creed, the Savage Saber Tooth.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm thrilled to welcome five jury members that I'm so excited to see and hang out with.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love all of these people, I'm so happy to have my Sunday afternoon with each of you.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: Tell us your pronouns.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: What is it you love about Victor Creed and do you have a favorite Saber Tooth story?
• 2:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me first welcome my buddy Justin Wilder back to the show, Hi Justin.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello Chad.
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Our man Victor Creed.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: What a what a beast to a man.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I pronounce a he him from the XY podcast.
• 2:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love Saber to physically.
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love his strength-sized speed.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love just I mean, you know, he's a terrible guy, but also he doesn't have any shame in that be a villain and own it And I think that that's great for him.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Leave your truth.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, my favorite saber tooth comic is when he attacks the mansion for the first time and there's a little tetat between Siloc and Wolverine letting
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sabertooth get really close and really distracted as Siloc hears into the inner workings of Sabertooth's mind to pluck what she needs.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's a real trust moment between Wolverine and Siloc and a real just team dynamic against the massive threat that is Victor Creed.
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: I remember that finally as well.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're of a similar age.
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think our might my initial reading of Saber to wasn't this era that kind of a redemptive arc leading into expactor.
• 3:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me also welcome Joe Jones back to the show.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Joe.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Chad.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me back.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a thrill to be here to talk about Saber to I always love talking about.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: murderers and, you know, nefarious people that do bad things because, you know, the reason why we read super hero comics, I think more so for the heroes is actually for the villains, you know, how do's, how does the villain challenge the hero, my pronouns are he him and they them.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: What I love most about, say we're tooth is that he kind of works as a dark reflection of Wolverine, like they both have cause.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: They both have, you know, a healing factor.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're both very evenly matched.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably one of the few characters that Wolverine can actually really go hard and unleashes full, like Adam Manchium field theory again.
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know,
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Usually we have to see Wolverine kind of pull back his paws, you know, he can't really name anybody.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But with same or two, he lets completely go and like we see that in the Sabre 2 War where it's like it's really vicious and really bloody between them.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So whenever you get a story that has Wolverine and Sabre 2 together, you know it's going to be a really good battle.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: By favorite Saber 2 story, I think would probably be the Saber 2 series by Victor Laval during the Krakow era because in that one, I think it really exposed the hypocrisy of Krakowa, the idea that, you know, everybody sort of gets amnesty and is forgiven for all their crimes.
• 4:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Saber 2 is made it amount of made out to be an example, and he's thrown into the pit.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So he's like the first person that gets Krakowa justice.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas like everyone else is sort of doing the same thing that
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Saber to the sooner for at least has done the same thing, but Saber to this one has has forced to be punished for it and then seeing him do sort of like a prison break thing where he like takes all of the other people that are thrown in the pit.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, why should we listen to these people?
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why should we not question their authority?
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I really find that so it's really interesting because it gives us a different side.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Saber to the sea.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me welcome Matt Paren back to the show,
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi there.
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a parent.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm they them.
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I am so happy it's gots on this trial care.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: I going to be that person on trial.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabre to X. I'm pretty sure that just called Sabre to the evil twig will get to it later.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he's an evil.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, well, here, here's what I love about Sabre to is unchangeable.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: And the xman is full of it's the soap opera, right?
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: So like you need people to come in and now like mystique is a good guy, mystique is of God.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Magneto is a good guy.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Magneto is a guy.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a frost, right?
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like all of these characters.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: And in order for that to work, you need someone who has the opportunity, maybe even has like sympathy towards him and still can't he is like the measuring stick of evil within the end.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's what I mean, he
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: to say nothing of how he represents like the wilderness to Wolverines like sort of like you know civilization right like and the thing that draws him back out there like I love Victor Creed because I think he's important to the X-Men.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: My favorite story I'm going to say of book I know you hate is um weapon X number of 13 it's the end of um the underground it's the
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Saber 2 does as well.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: And there's this amazing moment with Saber 2th and Marrow on in the sewer of the facility.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: And she kicked him down a waterfall.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: And in that moment, Victor Creed is Jason Voor his.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is Freddie Kruger.
• 6:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he's the perfect thing for Marrow to get this like catharsis.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Excellent.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: Excellent.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, and hey, look at Scott for you, everybody.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Chad.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having me back.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've finally found a horrible man that I'm not going to defend on your show.
• 7:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: So Kudos.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Scott, he him, silver tooth.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, those already mentioned he is the dark reflection of Wolverine.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is the savagery unrestrained by any sense of honor or any of the things that Wolverine has and develops over time.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would say actually by favorite 616 Sabritu story is probably mutant massacre.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is a terrifying force in mutant massacre through all parts, including the power pack.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: bit, which is actually one of the most terrifying bits of mutant massacre, where these children are really threatened by Saber II, who is going to kill them.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then Wolverine fights and pretty brutally through the sewers.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I also love the age of apocalypse and exiles Saber II, which is a different version of Saber II, who's not a gigantic piece of shit, which is actually very refreshing.
• 8:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And lastly, the wonderful Allison parent here.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, hi, say for two of this interesting to me because like we said he's like Wolverine, but way worse, you know how like Wolverines are still around and say for two tigers aren't like he's just kind of not we've we've we've evolved past the need for people like him and he does not really fit this modern world nor does he fit mute metaphor of the next evolution.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really like the free theory Michael Santa Maria, the dead don't talk him out.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or as Matt and I like to call it dead loving it.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I thought that was really fun, but I, I'm always delighted to read more of him because I just haven't read that many comics.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I get to see a new side of him every day.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, he sucks, but you know, sometimes no, he just sucks.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: The week before this trial errors, the review of Sabertooth The Dead Don't Talk will be out on my show with some friends.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's a scheduled content in September before this comes.
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we're gonna take a moment to talk about Sabertooth's cost.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: If you can all find out if you've seen my screen, if anybody can't, just give me a quick, okay.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me just hear your thoughts on what makes a good Sabertooth look.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Give us a brief description because our readers won't be able to see this about what we're looking at and what makes a great Sabertooth cost game.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Justin, do you wanna take this first one?
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: got to have the flowing main it like if it doesn't have the main I'm not it's just not the same and he's got just that element gives it it's animalistic feeling it's the whole claws seemingly a part of the hand the everything is sleek except for the exposed hair and his top and around his shoulders it just it feels animal.
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's always interesting to me when the really animal themed characters will put like on full clothing, it like his claws are covered as feet are covered everything but his face he's almost got like the the gambit like head sock on but it's that for color and then the brown and orange that we're going to see over and over.
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: Joe tell us your thoughts on this second saber to look on on the left here.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, this one's similar, you know, it has like the white fur, it has like the brown and black, you know, the gloves, you know, they cover the closet, which I think is kind of an
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: not really the one that we would expect it's like not really the first one that we would think about when it comes to this is like black and orange when he was leading the weapon exports team in like the late 2010 right but I appreciate how it invokes the classic like it's still very recognizable I say it to and like just and said it's so it gives animal like he looks like he should be a WWE wrestler yeah yeah yeah yeah
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Matt, let me hear your thoughts on this third one, and it's interesting when we look at the fur placement on this.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's almost evoking pimped a little bit, but like it's the hunt.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I think it's weird.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was reading more Clydesdale.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, and it, they're kind of as-
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: that fringe.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he's got fringe on his ankles and his wrists and he's got a much bigger sort of cowl full of fur.
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: What I will say, I think that the first outfit is the best one so far, but what I like about the hair styling for this is that his big beard and there's like mud chops and like hair are big and out and they almost become part of the cowl, which is always what I'm looking for in a good saver too, it's like like design.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is the brown with darker brown type, like underwear and brown gloves.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is an okay, like a B, a savory thought that I think.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: This might be my favorite.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: I like stuff that evokes the original stuff and his early appearance is kind of give Kung Fu Villain, like B movie Kung Fu Villain because he's an iron fist initially.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: Scott, what are your thoughts on the next one?
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is his ex-factor little
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a choice.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very 90s.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a red sleeveless body suit with red half gloves and a giant metal boots.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is probably the worst he's ever looked.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's bad.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Red is not a saber to color.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have to have them in that sort of tan or kind of orangey look.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is this is bad.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Alice and take this next one.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we've got a little like make it original but make it walking dead and also some early 2000s had to's going on.
• 12:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he's like ribbing his clothes off his hair super long.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: He does not have the cowl with the friend, but he is kind of shirtless not this very not as interesting as his other So it's a very adventurous.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's sweet.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're getting like a real strong Beastual appearance in all of them.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the jaw on the teeth and almost the ears get pointed sometimes the way the hair grows on the face I got one more for each of you.
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: Justin, if you'll take the one on the left here
• 12:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, good doggy.
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the, he's got, this is Adrian Apocalypse, right?
• 12:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is, this is the, the team's beast, you know, he's got what looks like a collar on, rocking that high ponytail and the claws are free.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like this is a house broken saber on the right, Joe, if you will, we have Lady Saber tooth.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this reminds me of Shanna the She-Double.
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's, you know, the major physics pose is not a whole lot of fabric.
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because our divorced her after she wore Zabu.
• 13:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it's a cool look like if you're going to be hanging out in the same way, guys.
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: That like era of alternate sabertoots from the sabertooth war.
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: Matt, if you'll take the one on the left, this is sabertooth mixed with the Joker during the Malgam event.
• 13:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: The hyena is among the ugliest looking characters, Teva Grace, a comic book page.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Dark claw, like Needs a Joker, Sabertooth though, and this is Sabertooth's body with the Joker, and he's got green fur fringe that seems to be
• 13:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: only on his back.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's also got a gun, which I do think, the same particular gun is funny because he's a character who never needs a gun.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a little like at the end of the, the second, uh, grandma's movie.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're one of course, uh, striped gets a gun.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't, I don't, I just, I always think that that's funny.
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Where character's claws.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is, this is the worst one.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is worse than the red, uh, I think, for sure.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Allison on the right, we have kind of a rare place of saber tooth is Xavier.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's got a severed arm.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: What are your thoughts on this one?
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he stole Xavier's hover chair.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is lost in arm and an eye and maybe all of his legs.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, all two of us, uh, it and then, otherwise the outfit is pretty unremarkable.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: We couldn't even, uh, try to sew up a little, a little, little cubby for his little nub to go into.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's out free.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then Scott, we have kind of big blocky AOA Saber-tooth here.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: What are your thoughts?
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is the classic AOA and Exiles Saber-tooth.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's iconic.
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: It great it works in the context of AOA.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have this classic color schemes with the sort of yellow tan and the brown.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's got gigantic arms because people like his shoulder muscle is larger than his
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, uh, because artists in the 90s had some issues with anatomy, and uh, in the post-apocalyptic hellhole, you just have gigantic, uh, shoulders.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: So there's some thoughts about the fashion of saber tooth, which puts us in a particular mood as we start to examine this character.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I've stopped screen share for you all, correct?
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, just making sure.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love Sabertooth initially, let's start here as a dark reflection of Wolverine.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wolverine is the best there is at what he does and so a Sabertooth.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: While Wolverine lives by a coat of honor, Sabertooth is motivated by his self preservation.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabertooth knows qualms about killing for money, for survival, for revenge, for fun.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabertooth is scary and ruthless and unscrupulous killer who viciously murders without remorse.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabertooth and Wolverine are evenly matched as they both have claws and healing factors, making Sabertooth one of the few villains that Wolverine doesn't have to hold back against when it comes to unleashing the full fury of his adamantium fueled or berserker rage.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then interesting experiment if you want to look up because these two have fought I don't know 40 times in the comics right but look at it by decade look at it in the early 80s versus in the mid 2000s when rules around blood and gore change and then look at the saber tooth war god damn like it gets just full gory some time.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: State has brought these two warriors together, and it's a faith that keeps the maternally locked in a never-ending duel to the death.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's face it, right from the start, Saber Tooth is reprehensible, he's pure evil.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's five out of five in every category for every person probably in this trial, in that he has canonically crossed lines, and it's kind of impossible to get redemption.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: rape murder of sex workers, silver fox, is a whole conversation ripping up docking into pieces to write a happy birthday message in body parts, gutting siloq, ripping off Warrens wings, the more-lock massacre, those horrible panels of him murdering innocent mutants on crick-tola when he attacks.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that's part of the appeal, weird, because if you think of villains of the X-Men, Saber Toots likely to be in your top five that you think of first, alongside Apocalypse, Magneto, the Sentinel's Mr. Sinister, and they're all scary in their own way, but Victor Creates very frightening.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's Freddie Kruger.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's Hannibal Lecter.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's the devil himself, waiting in the shadows of an apartment on the hunt, waiting like a cat waits for a mouse,
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: And when he corners you, he makes sure you feel the fear.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: He pins you down, berates you, make sure you feel worthless.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he sexually assaults someone.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Then he starts to peel off skin layer by layer, tasting your blood as he goes.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's how this character's often written.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: He makes it slow.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: If you have loved ones, he wants them to watch.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then he might lead them alive to remember it.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: When you die, he wants to watch the life leave your eyes.
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: To him, it's intimate, it's dominant.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: He kills for cruelty because he can because that's what he is made for.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: And yes, that was a jarring paragraph, right?
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: But it's also the key attribute of Saber Tooth.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's an animal, brain, sociopath, and psychopath don't even quite fit because those are human words for human conditions.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's a mutant, he's better than he's almost superior.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Your words and laws and rules don't apply, and if you ever happen to beat him, he won't respect you, he'll just keep coming back and back and back, always reminding you that he is the monster who will never leave you alone.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: He is obsessed, he will get revenge on you for years, for decades.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's done this to Wolverine.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: And yes, there's a gay read that we have done on this character as we've done flashback stories because we're in, I don't know, and creates always dressing up in like old west towns to go to the saloon and hang out with this boyfriend, but also like violence is their foreplay.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to give that out.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: a strong read today, but it's definitely part of the whole thing.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: But it create is the animal brain unleashed.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Clause versus Clause neither can die, at least not for long healing factors.
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabertooth is what Wolverine would be if he were berserker, but not even quite because Logan goes berserker to survive.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed is cold and calculating and cruel.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's hunted down Wolverine on his birthday every year, doing something horribly cruel just because he can.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: And Victor Creed is a horrible monster indeed,
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: but he doesn't give a fuck at all.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's kind of what makes him magical.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: Admitted, he shows up on the page and there's a little breath of anticipation you give because you wonder what horrible thing he's going to do next.
• 19:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: The name by the way is a choice.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: We talked about him and his comparisons to Saber II, in an episode earlier this month, like literal Saber II's tigers, but his real name, Victor, Victor implies someone who is triumphant or victorious.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then we have Creed, like the doctrine of a church, like it's the rules you live by, Victor Creed,
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: uh let's talk a little about what makes Creed fit into the mutant metaphor uh we brought up the evict of a wall saber tooth uh series and Creed has always sort of struggled to fit into the mutant metaphor i think that the books were and he's a prisoner sort of do it the bad.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: because Creed is pure unadulterated chaos and freedom.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he hurts people with that freedom and that chaos.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: The second that you're up against the idea of imprisonment forever.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: He becomes sort of oddly right.
• 20:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to position characters around him to make it clear that his actual actions are not right.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: but in trying to liberate himself, he sort of serves as this interesting, like worst case scenario.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is, like, he's functionally, incredibly important to Krakow.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: He can't exist without them doing that kangaroo court at the beginning and put in creed at the base of the pit.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: He has to be there when they make the rules and unfairly be put there so that they send, right?
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the sort of Krakow as an original send is putting Saber Truth in the,
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: the pit.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, I think more modernly, that's sort of his place in the mutant metaphor.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: So Justin, let me love it your way, but I'm going to ask you a question here, Xavier's dream is about peaceful coexistence.
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Magneto certainly has a spin on that, but Sabertooth is kind of the epitome of what mutants and the threat to humans could be in that he's evil unrestrained.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: What are your thoughts on his place in the Xavier dream modality?
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: he's even when they show it, I think it's the animated series and then adapted from some comics where they try to save him in a way, you know, they try to can you rehabilitate him and he proves like he's not interested in it at all.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: He is where, you know, Logan tries to find order and peace and some kind of the
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: samurai way, some kind of nobility and just honor in how he's doing, Creed gives into every animalistic instinct.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has no qualms of caging that he is, you know, you look at beast, someone that can let loose a little bit and then saber tooth who lives in that looseness.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: who just he's berserker raging at all times that's just his base default.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not a thing that he fights in the same way that Wolverine or Beast or even other vicious characters could get to if unleashed.
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just feel like he is he's the case against Xavier's dream.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, he's like, I don't think it works, guy.
• 22:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's the, he's the, like, far end of the moral scale to test this dream against a Scott who is an actual attorney is same or tooth year redeemable.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would say he is probably irredeemable.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, a lot of the iconic X-Men villains we mentioned.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Apocalypse, um, characters like Exodus is seek.
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: They tend to be driven by some ideology, um, whether that's the survival.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: fitness and apocalypse is case, whether it's in classic magnitude of dominance, etc.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Creed has no ideology beyond indulging his base impulses, murder, rape for violence.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: There is an iridimability about him in the same way.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: For example, in Spider-Man with Carnage, Carnage is an iridiminal character, and Creed is very much in
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: sort of mode of character as opposed to a character like Magneto who over decade moves to a more heroic because there's no change for Creed and the handful of times where he is, quote, unquote, good.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's either because of some sort of psychic manipulation or the insanity of like, axisverted.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's he's he's he were doing.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes,
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Joe, what do you think makes Saber Tooth an interesting foil for Wolverie?
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: What does he tell us about Wolverine's character?
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, I think that the main difference between Wolverine's narrative is that idea that Wolverine is a man of honor.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a warrior of honor.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: He has a code that he follows.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: He does not need that code.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's never had that.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't really have any value in that, you know, kills for himself.
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: He kills out of
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: revenge or for money or just to enjoy it and I think that's what always is fascinating is that they're linked to this like conflict where like every year for his birthday, say we're to target him and you know it goes all the way back to the murder of Silver Fox.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they will always be in this fight again.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So do you even guard their back?
• 24:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wolverine fucked his sister one time.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good reason to want to kill somebody.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think, right, like the very healthy way of dealing with that.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So like, you know, save or two, they think right now off the book, like following the wall, the save or two more, but I'm sure eventually you'll be brought back.
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll start the killing all over again between Wolven and save or two.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what fans kind of look forward to, especially Wolverine fans.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like every superhero has like their adversaries, their archnameses, and save or two is definitely more.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Allison, how does one defeat a saber tooth in battle through being pure of heart?
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think that works.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't work.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then being like a mean, some of them a bit like, I, you have to like really go all out against a saber and check, but also I think being care of hard works because he's the opposite.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: So let's talk about his vulnerability.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: We've got a Muramasa blade.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: We've got psychics.
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then we've got, if you're like faster or scrappy or stronger but he doesn't stay put down, right?
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: And so you put like a collar on him.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: And even then he's a pretty formidable threat.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's almost like you need constant focus on him, right?
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: The times we were able to contain him in something, whether it be the pit, whether it be telepathic control, he's still working his way through it.
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's part of his healing factor.
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a part of just like he's been in this manipulated, cageed animal in space before and he's going to work his way out of it.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you just constant pressure and escalating effort feels like to be able to contain him.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, to the to the abilities that compare to Wolverine and the joy to see him go up against Wolverine, what Joe was saying earlier, I did that to have someone that can go toe to toe with the guy that's known for being a hero that slices people up, I just think that that's an exciting thing to put him up against the wall like that.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: With the exception of Storm Wolverine Magneto, there's a few Gambit Saber 2, this is one of the most highly featured solo characters outside of the X-Men.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Scott, what are your thoughts on why Saber 2 seems getting the main focus?
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, as like the main character of the book, the protagonist.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because people like to read villainous character, there is a long tradition of giving certain villainous character books, uh, whether it's at DC with Deathstroke or, uh, at Marvel with Carnage with Saber Tooth, there is sort of that, uh, voyeuristic,
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: feeling that a lot of people get from being able to read about these just horrible, horrible, men doing horrible things.
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it certain writers are also attracted to these characters.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you get characters who go really in on it.
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it does produce some interesting things.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: It also stands very gory.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Joe is Saber Tooth sexy.
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And does he make a good romantic romantically?
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who's reading like the Saber two bromance, but I don't know, but I mean, yeah, I guess he's a few if you're into that thing.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't find Wolverine sexy either, but you know, there's definitely an appeal there for some people.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Allison, what are your thoughts on Saber two as an ongoing member of a mainstream team book?
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's some challenges in telling that kind of Saber.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: can't focus for that long.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't be what you need in a team.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's got to mess it up eventually because he kind of messes up everything.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can't really keep it together and it's just it's you can put him on the team but it's never it's not gonna end well.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: Justin, uh, December 2th make a good team leader.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I guess it depends on if he respects the people on the job and he is vested in the outcome because he's self-motivated, right?
• 27:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And at any point in time he's going to turn on you and kill you if it suits.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, it really anybody that's joining that team has to be Deadpool or, you know, someone that can walk away from it otherwise.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about Sabertooth on some different teams for just a minute.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: He has a shocking number of solo titles, some of which were reviewed on my show this month, and he has a shocking number of teams that he's on that all kind of bring out a different side of the character.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Matt, do you want to tell us your thoughts on Sabertooth as a member of the Marauder?
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think he's great on the marauders because the marauders are, um, they're immediately introduced as this like, like scary threat.
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: They kill a lot of people.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then Sabre Jesus introduced sort of as like even worse than all of them within that story.
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: And that gets him sort of to like leave the marauders and be his own, his own thing outside of that, especially within Wolverine stories.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's the breakout star.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like he's the, like Justin Timberlake.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: If, if the marauders are in sync, he's the obvious star.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: I never want to see Justin Timberlake play the creases.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he can bad say we're to for sure.
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's not sexy enough.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: I want to say, just I didn't get to answer that question.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Have you seen the cover of Sabertooth origins?
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like that is legitimately one of the hottest, like comic covers, Marvel's ever.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's so sexy.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's sexy.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Allison, what are your thoughts on Sabre 2000 member of the X-Men?
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's a couple different versions of this.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: We have the heroic version in the Age of Apocalypse.
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: We have the kind of like colored or like we put a bomb in his head or something to like make him part of the team.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: But we also have that era where he's kind of on that team, where he's just evil, but also depowered a little bit like in that like lady mastermind era of comics.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that there's a reason that they keep trying to do it.
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's that they they want him to fit in there.
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes you do have to put a bomb in his head to make him stay.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Scott, the saber to the make a good member of the brotherhood of people.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: But no, because he has to be in charge.
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And any anyone who is on the brotherhood with him, unless he is in charge, you're making a terrible mistake.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because he sure as hell isn't a mistake.
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not going to listen to Magneto.
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: It worked out.
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: It worked out fine for Black Tom casting.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure.
• 29:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll agree to disagree.
• 30:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Just in your thoughts on Sabre 2000 member of team x back guys doing bad things right and aren't they they're all colored they're all, you know, under the team x you're thinking weapon X weapon X is the Frank theory, T max is like when he's with Wolverine and Maverick and those like old flashbacks where they like all mercenaries in black.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, I mean, he's on assignment.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's doing a thing.
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's still destructive.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't trust him if I'm, if I'm Logan or Maverick, I'm not going to be excited to be on a mission with this guy.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like, you know, he gets the job done sure, but he's going to maybe kill people that he shouldn't kill along the way and I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to be in the same room of him like that.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Joe, do you have any opinions on Sabre 2000 member of the uncanny avenger?
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really have a great reference for that, is that?
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: So that's like, he's inverted after the access events and then becomes an Avenger for a while crazy.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, I mean, like if his morality has changed and now he's heroic, like absolutely, he should be on that team because the whole point of the uncanny Avengers processor is like, hey, we like millions, we got some, we've been hearing you got, you want millions, we got them.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of wouldn't mind seeing another sort of inversion of Saber 2 and like actually trying like in the 616 like parents Saber 2 actually trying or having to be and you're like I like the failings covenant proxover where it was like him and Emma and Banshan Jubilee and they were all like trying to fight the failings and I thought that was like an interesting kind of like in to like maybe one day he could be on the expert proper.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we love dinosaurs and saber-tube tigers are fucking cool with their massive fangs.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: I've been to the L'Abrai a tarp pit museum where they have displays on real saber-tutes and they actually weren't that big.
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: They're smaller than a mountain lion, bigger than say a puma, but a riders will try to dive into the head of Victor Creed from time to time.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: With all serial killers, we want to know what made them into such monsters.
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed was apparently bad from the beginning, both nature and nurture.
• 32:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: As a kid, he killed his brother over a slice of pie.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: He was also chained in the basement and forced to kill rabbits and getting his teeth yanked out by his father and they keep growing back in.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: He chewed out his own hand in order to escape and then killed his dad and seemingly his mom, but there's a random plotline by the way in a Wolverine comic.
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: where we learn that Victor has been keeping his mom alive all these years.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: And like he put her in a home and has been supporting her, but then the red, right hand killed his mother to spite him.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wild story that we don't have a lot of exploration about.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: Victor also has another brother and a sister, both our mutants.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're not gonna talk a lot about them today, but there's a lot to be said about the Creed family dynamic.
• 32:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: And remember that time he was almost gonna be Wolverine's dad, which Claremont followed up in on a different universal story when he got to tell more stories.
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of ways to tell a saber to the story, and it's often determined by the role he fits in.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: He is one, the supervillain, and a single story art.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: Two, he's the villain and an ensemble of villain.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Three, he's the big, bad, arch nemesis.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: We give him an adamantium skeleton, or we make him the king crime boss in Madrepoor, or the leader of the hand or the Yakuza.
• 33:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Four.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's mind-controlled or carefully contained as a monstrous weapon on a main team.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: They put the collar on, the bomb in his brain, or again, we find a way to contain him somehow by powering him and making desks.
• 33:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's always the risk of him escaping and turning on it.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: Five, he's the operative of some sort of rogue faction.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: He sent in as a soldier or an asset of some kind into some war.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's working at Ravencroft, or for the Kingpin, or again, these are the mercenaries.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: 6.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's the inverted hero with all of his instincts flipped around showing us what his potential could be.
• 33:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: And this is the age of apocalypse, the exiles, or the access event.
• 33:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: And also go back to that weird series first X men that we talked about on my show once we're not going to go there today.
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Number seven in the last one, and we're going to, is, is when Saber 2 is the movie star, and that's kind of where we're focusing our trial portion today is when he's like the big energy that he's played by the big star, doing the big villain arc in the big budget film.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's central to the story, and again, he's had nearly 10 comic books that have also born his name.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber 2 does a complicated character to write.
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Justin, what is your favorite part of Saber 2's mutant powers?
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like his physicality and yeah, it's just, it's the beast element of it.
• 34:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's how he can throw around that amount of strength and speed and ferocity, but then walk away from any injuries.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's that combination.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know, I'm just basically saying all of his powers are my favorite, but.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's that combination that makes Wolverine such a deadly combo like it's it's not just the claws It's the hunter.
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the like the ability to just analyze the situation in a way that other people missed those details One of my comics was how quickly Saber Tooth pegged that Daredevil was blind was using other senses to see his surroundings
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: how many other villains noticed that that quickly when going up against Daredevil.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's seeing details on a level that no one else experienced when he's well written.
• 35:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Matt, do you like Sabre Tooth with an adamantium skeleton?
• 35:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I've come to terms with it, but I really hated it for certain.
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that it's the one advantage Wolverine has Wolverine is like,
• 35:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: half as size is not even as fast as sabers is.
• 35:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's the advantage that Logan get.
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm okay with it now.
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think one of those just like escalations that happen.
• 35:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like how Laura has an Adamantium skeleton too.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope they never give a hockey hero Adamantium.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: We have too much Adamantium in general is my probably my real take, but I'm okay with him having it now and I hated it when it first happened.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Alison, do you ever suffer from saber tooth fatigue?
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: We get Wolverine fatigue a lot.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Does he show up on the page too much?
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, what do you know about this character?
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think he shows up too much.
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I and but what doesn't know me is that sometimes he I sometimes the dialogue's really like if you if he it's sometimes it's it's it's it's I know it's supposed to make you feel uncomfortable But it makes you feel so uncomfortable that you're like, I don't want to put it down.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to repost
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of complicated history for this character and it goes over long periods of time, but let me hear some of your thoughts on some of his key relationships.
• 36:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's almost the most interesting to pair him up against another person.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: Joe, do you want to talk about saber just relationship with Misty?
• 36:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, that one is always fascinating to me because I'm trying to fit it more into like Misty's backstory because like we know her relationship with Irene and just kind of eye that she was like,
• 36:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna go off and fuck this animal guy.
• 36:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like they're had to be more of like a benefit there.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like a kind of like maybe she saw like the genetic potential with him.
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, oh, maybe like we should create like a even child that I can, you know, use as like, like an assassin or an weapon.
• 36:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like the idea of her actually having like a real affection for say or two, there are a love or even an attraction to say or two, this kind of an odd one for me.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I like when they are paired up and they're on missions together because it's they you can tell they don't really like each other all that much, but there's like the sort of have like, I don't know, there's friction there that is that makes their interactions very exciting, but at least it's engaging.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting even though it doesn't quite make sense to me.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of like recognizes like.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a deep respect because they both understand what each other are, but also they're the biggest threat in the room, both of them.
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Allison's going to talk about in the trial section, the Saber Tooth Mistique Limited series, which they also have a child together.
• 37:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: Scott, what are your thoughts on Saber Tooth as the father of Graydon?
• 37:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, Graydon Creed is a great character.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: terrible villain, simply because of how realistic he is as a right wing American politician.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: It feels, you know, he was, he was not there.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was an absent father, but the genes are very strong.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is great and also inherited being a gigantic sociopathic piece of shit.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, that's really the extent of his early experience as a father to grading Cree and did a
• 38:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: I have a lot of thoughts on this, and I do maintain the Great and Creed profile over on the Marvel appendix, everyone if you want to go take a look, but Great and Creed has gone after Saber tooth and Misty hardcore as like a murderer, but then there's Misty assassinates him, he returns, and then we get a bunch of like extra dimensional versions of him, and Saber tooth almost goes on like that, can I redeem my son, Ark when he's inverted, which is interesting, Creed
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: which is another interesting thing.
• 38:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's some fascinating stories.
• 38:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: We won't focus a lot on trading today, but he's a character I have a lot of thoughts about.
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Justin, how do you think Magneto views Saber 2?
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like a dog, like a dog that does tricks.
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: He looks like a, I need someone that kills things viciously.
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes you get the dog to heal and sometimes the dog bites your hand.
• 38:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: Ciberto's first kind of buddy was the constrictor who is a mercenary with adamantium coils.
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Matt, do you have thoughts on the Cibertooth constrictor friendship?
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it's played up on enough and comics.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: They're funny too.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's been a lot of the early.
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's been like in the iron fist and power man.
• 39:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's very, it's our story.
• 39:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: It becomes the next men character for them.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's before he's the next men character.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then later, constrictor sort of becomes a Wolverine villain.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: So there's some stuff later like that.
• 39:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I think that there's a very great
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Both them and some of that is in the early power bands is just not as characterized as he will be later, but there's a fun little read that like just over the course of being like with the marauders and stuff he's he's become like worse like as he's gotten more and more into like like issues, but when he was just a criminal guy, he was like kind of okay to hang out with part of why a constrictor put up puts up with like, uh,
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, I have a very friendly, as friendly as Saber 2 that ever is, kind of a relationship, which is cool, and you know, maybe they kiss.
• 39:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: Those tentacles do things, I'm just saying.
• 39:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Joe, what do you thought's on Sabre Tooth's relationship with Bertie?
• 40:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, poor Bertie.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she is one of those characters who's like, Katie Sather and like, now in part, like, women who deserve better who were failed by the men around them.
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she just won it.
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, like, what she cords, like, that I don't really know exactly how they came together.
• 40:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, like, San Francisco has a history with women where he's not very nice to them, he calls him frail, you know, over and over again, like, which is why I love the issue with Ms. Marvel, where she'd be to shit out of him that was very fun to watch.
• 40:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Based on any time that San Francisco gets his ass kicked by a woman is really fun for me.
• 40:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I love the Betsy issue.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I love the gene issue in the 90s when he chases her around the mansion.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like San Francisco just chased women around mansions and have them pick his ass.
• 40:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I just wish that Bertie got out of that situation because that was not good for her, but they do kind of have like a weird sort of like it's like the reverse of their constrictor thing where it's like she probably doesn't respect him.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: She did try to get him killed, but he didn't like want to kill her at the same time.
• 41:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was like a really weird like he's like, I'm going to keep you around because you're useful to me.
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe they like each other.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they found common here.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think she liked him very much.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: Scott, what are your thoughts on the Creed's relationship?
• 41:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is an interesting one with Valerie Cooper.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: His time on X-Factor is very, trying to figure out a phrase this.
• 41:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Very clintonian, it's the 90s, and what are we going to do?
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to take this guy, and we're going to triangulate, and we're going to put this mass murdering sociopath,
• 41:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: on this team with a collar is the collar is going to stop him.
• 41:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: We fully believe in the collar and shockingly much to Val's surprise, it does not work.
• 41:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He gets away and ends up doing some pretty horrible shit again.
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I would say his relationship with Valcooper is not great.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He resents being on X-factor.
• 41:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: He resents her and I think she got pretty lucky in that situation that he didn't do what he typically does to women.
• 42:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Justin, when we lean into the inverted version of Sabertooth, so AOA and also exiles, let me give you two here.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: What are your thoughts on Sabertooth's connections to blink and wild child in that context?
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, wild child almost forces him to have responsibility and he sees kinship.
• 42:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And honestly, I think Wild Child is the best thing for him in that it just it gives him a purpose and in almost an opportunity to be a bit of a family member to Wild Child that he never had that that saber to himself never had for Blink I think there's a there's a respect for what she can do but yeah I don't I don't I don't have I don't have as strong of a read on their relationship.
• 42:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: It gives very much like the Wolverine jubilee kind of thing like this.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: I heard that I I rescued from trauma.
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Matt has thoughts on this.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: I can tell.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's his daughter.
• 42:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would say in in a way, but much more in exile, right?
• 43:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: You watch as as like because it's it's implied really in a way.
• 43:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: But in exiles, you see like.
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Literally, there's a point there in the middle of exiles where Blink is introducing her boyfriend to Saber 2's who's on the team now and he hates him and it's very that like sitcom trope like she brought the boy home and they have like similar vibes like menic and and this version of Saber 2 so like it's very much has that like Wolverine really kind of thing.
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then my last one in the relationships category, Allison, do you have thoughts on Sabertooth's connection to Cricola and what he represents for the mutant nation.
• 43:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's the first true test.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's the the Satan that they put in the pit and was like, if you were bad, you're going to be like Sabertooth.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of the sacrificial land so that they could have this great paradise.
• 43:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a lot to be said about that.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know if I can do it very
• 43:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: So there's a, there's a, there's a number of things about this character that make him kind of complicated.
• 43:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're kind of hopping all around rather than delving deep into his history, which we'll cover into the trial.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think something that I think you know, and what I've been thinking about since we started this is can he be redeeming.
• 44:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's going to be our dominant question as we go through this trial, you know, is there possibility that this character can be reform do we even want.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: to be ready, you know, is he fine the way he is?
• 44:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do we want to keep him as like the reprehensible evil character that, you know, is a thorn in the side of the new in metaphor?
• 44:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like if Xavier's dream is, we can pose this.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, say we're to this proof that we can't, we can say we're to it doesn't want to pose this.
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's invested in the dream at all.
• 44:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like then he had like, the thing about I wonder is like, let's say, you know, he was never
• 44:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: What would his role be on Furco?
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Would he have been a part of X-Force?
• 44:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, would he have been nominated to the X-Men?
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what would have been his art?
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's just something I'm always curious about.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the alternate past that the character could take or the future direct that would take care.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I think the answer to the question, can he be redeemed?
• 45:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Is no, because he has no desire to.
• 45:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Mistique will play along for her own agenda.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Magneto has a different view, but San Francisco doesn't know no interest at all.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, he's more predatory than Selena's for gods, which is crazy.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: has people that she love in a real sincere way.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: She's also a psychopath, like, like, Saberji, but her love for Rogue or love for Destiny, these are things that open her up to us.
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: But Saberji, who has one, maybe love in Logan, but really that love is in this, like, lustful death, like murder or things with it.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's psychosexual.
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's beyond that.
• 45:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is the dark mirror to Logan.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is based instincts.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is violence.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is violent sexuality.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is completely irredeemable in a way that certain villains to certain kind of characters, whether it's Joker to Batman, whether it's carnage, spy or man, etc.
• 46:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: etc.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is iridim and he's beyond the pale, and I think, you know, we mentioned wild child before briefly, and I think wild child who was not always very well used by writers, but wild child is sort of a mirror saber to in that he is that savagery but tempered by a goodness at the core, and I think Creed is a reflection of both of these two characters Logan and wild child just at their absolute worst question.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be honest, I don't think I'm going to say it for quite a long time.
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know that I live in a house with Matt, but I'm honestly not thinking about it.
• 46:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I also think that even though the orange and tanned outfit is the original, I think you should try some because that is
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: I have an aunt and uncle who whenever we talk about sports and like who do you like my uncle will give like a billion thoughts about sports statistics and who was recruited and how much money and where they're training in the climate and my aunt will be like I just like the green uniforms more than I like the red ones.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm rooting for that team.
• 47:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a balance for the two of you here that makes me happy.
• 47:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: You're like look at his pretty colors.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when we watch wrestling, I definitely care more about what they're wearing than what they're dealing with the video.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Justin, I don't think he can be redeemed and I don't want him to be redeemed.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like him the way he is.
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just think finding ways to give him purpose, finding ways to like him upside, you know, because that is just going to get.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't need to redeem every villain.
• 47:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's so good to be an villain.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I struggle with how much I like this villain because of how bad acid savages and, you know, that is a thing that I think I wrestle with as I'm reading this and like, yeah, I know this guy sucks, but kind of cool.
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's where I'm at.
• 47:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: I dislike Sabertooth as a main character.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think an occasional limited series is really interesting, but Sabertooth and Sinister fall into the same category for me.
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: They're an occasional treat.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: They are not a dessert that I need every night.
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: When either of them fall into that kind of main character energy, I find it kind of frustrating.
• 48:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Whereas like Magneto and Mystique make a much more interesting, long-term member of the team.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: I've done a lot of thought on Sabritooth.
• 48:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: I did read the whole character, front to back, and I did a lot of episodes and interviews, and then over on the Patreon this month, the theme has been Tiger Claws.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: So we've had a lot of interesting characters to kind of reflect or bounce off of Sabritooth, including an episode on Romulus, and another on Tiger Tiger, both of whom are interesting parallels on this character.
• 48:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, go see those episodes.
• 48:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think Sabertooth also, and this is kind of my final thought before we jump into the trial, has the dark side reflected.
• 48:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Every one of our character has the ability to be good or evil.
• 48:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: The shadow king releases the evil side.
• 48:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabertooth is the reverse.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like what is the good side?
• 48:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Look like.
• 48:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's an interesting thing.
• 48:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't like any time Sabertooth is in a committed sexual relationship.
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: The shit with him and like those younger girls in some of his earlier flashback appearances like when he's dating Nemora or Hollow from First X Men really really annoys me.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: I hated when he and Monet were like hooking up although I kind of got it because she had emplate hands during that time and it was a little creepy or a little freaky.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: He and Mystique fucking make sense to me, and I'm guessing he's excellent in bed, but he is kind of an, I don't know, he's an interesting character.
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: I like this character more than I did, but still, what a reprehensible villain.
• 49:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: With that, we're gonna jump into the trial of Sabertooth.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is where we'll be counting his history, not comprehensively, but mostly only in the spaces where he is the main character.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're not using a lot of his ensemble appearances or teamwork.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: There are a lot of sabritude stories, especially when he's a protagonist and a lot of alternate versions.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: But we're going to keep this focused on his key issue.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Has the judge?
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: This isn't likely to go well on the morality scale.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: But my five friends are going to join me for this trial.
• 49:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: Everyone has been assigned a specific sex and a reading history section of reading history, and it'll be up to each person to present their prosecution and defense for Victor Creed.
• 50:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, no excuse for sexual assault.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to say that out as a rule out loud as we jump in.
• 50:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: After that, each jury member will be voting zero to five in each section, and we will be giving a create a final score at the end.
• 50:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: Trial point one, we are calling this slasher.
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: The assigned jury member here is Matt Parrott, and this is covering a lot of Sabertooth's earliest appearances, which Matt, I'm kind of guessing you hadn't read before.
• 50:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: I've excited to hear a lot of your thoughts on these interim appearance.
• 50:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: So we're covering Iron Fist 14, Power Man and Iron Fist 66, Power Man and Iron Fist 78, and 84, Spectacular Spider-Man 116, and then he is brought over to the X-Men world in X-Factor 10, Power Pack 27, Uncanny X-Men 12 and 13.
• 50:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Introducing the savagery of Saber Tooth, a new super villain, Saber Tooth has costumed and armed men working for him as he takes Jarren Hogarth, Colleen Wing, and Daniel Rand all captive.
• 50:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Wing Sushi knows him by reputation.
• 51:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: You're a free booter.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: A modern-day pirate for the right price, you'll rip off anything, and he threatens to scratch your eyes out.
• 51:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: When Hogarth calls him a monster, Creed replies, ain't it the truth, Bob?
• 51:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yep, you heard a Bob there.
• 51:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: When he battles Iron Fist, the hero thinks of Sabre II as the, quote, ultimate killing machine, Sabre II's lures, Iron Fist, to a stark white area in the snow, where the two go snow blind, and Iron Fist kicks Creed's ass, and we did cover this appearance on my show this month.
• 51:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: A few years later, saber-tooth teams up with the constrictor to steal the rare Jade Tiger artifact, and they fight Colleen Wing and Misty Knight.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: saber-tooth is harsh and racist using terms like Slantide, which we never appreciate.
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: And he uses the word frail while fighting for the first time.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a big fight with Iron Fist and Luke Cage before the villains get defeated, and Daniel Rand realizes that Sabertooth is more animal than men.
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: A masked killer is on the loose in the streets of New York City, and is soon known as the Slasher.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: In a purple coat, with a mask over his face and knives in his hands, he's cutting up women and men.
• 52:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's caught up in a bloodlust.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: His friend Frank, or the constrictor, is trying to help him, but the Slasher is attacking and Frank has to keep covering for him.
• 52:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a fight with Misty Knight, Elle Aguila, Power Man, and Iron Fist, constrictor helps the Slashar escape promising to get him help.
• 52:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: And this might be, Sabretooth's single most surprising appearance, if I'm honest.
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabretooth is obsessed with getting revenge on Misty Knight for posing as a hooker when he was the Slashar.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's a cop, right?
• 52:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: like he's mad at her because she didn't die.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: So now knowing the scent of her bionic arm, Saber Tooth goes after Misty, but is seemingly unable to tell different black women apart, and he accidentally attacks Luke Cage's girlfriend harmony young instead.
• 52:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: He badly scars her face, but leaves her alive.
• 52:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Victor and Frank, uh, try going out to a jazz club, club later, together, which is giving that gay read on the constrictor relationship.
• 52:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: but power man and iron fist hunt them down and beat the shit out of them.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Luke chokes Creed and is tempted to kill him.
• 52:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: Later again, wanting some action, Saber Tooth kills several agents while looking for the foreigner, the ex-husband of Silver Sabel wanting to join his organization of a sass.
• 53:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber Tooth demands work saying he hasn't killed in two days and he's going crazy, but the foreigner comments that in order to blend in, Saber Tooth would need, quote,
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: with some of four-eders men fight the black cat, saber-tooth gets a taste of her blood, and ends up going after her himself, threatening to skin her and torture her, but he ends up battling Spider-Man, who webs Creed's face.
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: Victor rips the webs off and it takes the skin on his face with it, horrifying.
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Finally, we get our first few of saber-tooth in an X-Men book.
• 53:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's joined the Marauders, and they've been sent to kill as many more locks
• 53:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: as possible by their mysterious boss.
• 53:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabertooth slash a Taliban gets hit by an optic blast for the first time and then made sick by plague from the horsemen.
• 53:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: In PowerPack Creed comes very close to slaughtering the PowerPack kids when they enter the tunnels.
• 53:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then we get Wolverine versus Sabertooth, round one, uncanny X-Men 212.
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: This comic book is way too expensive in the back issue section of your local store.
• 54:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: The first line of dialogue, Claremont writes for Creed in this, as he's fighting Wolverine, Creed says, you shrimp, we're always mine, and coulda chop you smooth as sin when you were dreaming, but where's the sport in that?
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: When I kill you, Logan old son, I want you to see it coming, and love the taste of blood, boy, especially yours, and your hotsy, toxic healing factor won't save you when I rip out your heart.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a little neat cute, guys.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Ben Logan collapses the tunnel on top of Creed, trapping him.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: In issue 213, the Creed takes out rogue savagely fights, siloque, and then spars with Wolverine before jumping in a river to escape after siloque steals intel from his mind.
• 54:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me turn it over to Matt.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, let's do the prosecution first because I do think that will be the Porsche Victor Creed is a racist murderer who commits crimes out in the open and kills for fun and seemingly at will and at random.
• 55:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: He cannot tell a black woman with a robot arm from a black woman without.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: a robot arm and uses racial slurs in his just everyday parlance to say nothing of the fact that he commits a genocide in this section against the poor morlock or is it the very least party too the genocide of the morlocks in their time?
• 55:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's all that needs to be said.
• 55:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is the most guilty someone can be.
• 55:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll do the defense now.
• 55:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's very good.
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: We're doing a lot of, we're talking about a lot of Saber II things over the next couple of, uh, but the next hour and so, uh, and it's good we started with this section because within it is the argument against basically every totally guilty verdict we could give, which is in the power man and iron fist story wherein Saber II is the slash.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: We see that he is,
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: While he does enjoy killing, he is also sort of against his own will killing it random and he has a friend in constrictor who is trying to help him.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: Now my client Victor creed is a badman and I am not arguing that he is not guilty.
• 56:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: What I am arguing instead is that he should not be held entirely responsible for his act mutant powers often show themselves in inconvenient and bad ways and the brain
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: is part of the body.
• 56:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Create is has a literal thing that causes blood loss due to his mutant abilities.
• 56:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: I am not saying that he is not guilty for the many, many crimes or racism which isn't part of that, but it is important to remember that
• 56:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a matter of a brain that does not work the way that everyone else is brain and a clear community at the very least one person around Creed who is trying to get him help.
• 56:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: We sort of rest our case as best we can and play for leniency.
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to talk about any key moments from these old issues that you enjoyed the Spider-Man Web?
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: So for example.
• 56:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: God, that one.
• 57:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, put Spider-Man on trial for that because that shit that when he rips that office face, it dawned on me how powerful Spider-Man webbing is.
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, I know, you know, it lasts for a long like three, five hours, right?
• 57:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: But he's strong enough to rip it off his face.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he does it.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: He rips his face off.
• 57:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: It is, you know, the amount of times Jason,
• 57:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, um, absolutely.
• 57:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
• 57:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: He definitely has to have a fake one in the plant.
• 57:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 57:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: The bugle.
• 57:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, no, that's really brutal.
• 57:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: I really, I think he is kind of cool as a kung fu villain in iron fist.
• 57:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's so he's probably iron fist's most famous villain in a way.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, like, just because there's not a lot of famous iron fist villains.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but this, when he goes into the snow and he wakes away so he snub on and he kind of tries to get, that's a great action sequence.
• 57:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: And John
• 57:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and then he fights the X men and is like, well, it's an inch.
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know you gave me the mutant massacre and I had I didn't really talk about it, but it is the thing that he's the most skillsy for like, it's indefensible in many ways, but it's such a good sequence and he's so scared.
• 58:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: God, that power path.
• 58:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'd forgotten how scary he is in power, like he's going to get those kids.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: If anybody doesn't stop him, it's pretty bad.
• 58:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: The mutant massacre is about as indefensible as you get.
• 58:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've mentioned it several times.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: In addition to massacoring all of those mutants, is also trying to kill a lot of children, kills a lot of more of a lot of children.
• 58:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and it's sort of like, there's a rule that if the power pack is appearing in an X-Men comic or in the vicinity of the X-Men, they're going to be horribly trauma time.
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, Creed was responsible for that.
• 58:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Those gifts should not have been in the fucking sewer.
• 58:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: That would have been my defense.
• 58:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Justin, is it a fight for you here?
• 58:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's a fight.
• 58:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just say, you know, I wanted to build in some wiggle room, but I just don't think we got it.
• 58:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, this might actually even be his worst history until post-Cricula.
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's really evil in these comics.
• 59:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, go watch like enter the dragon.
• 59:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: Everyone, if you haven't seen that before, or haven't seen it in years, and then picture 70s Victor Creed as the villain in that.
• 59:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a pretty fun thought experiment.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, that's a 30 out of 30.
• 59:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: Friends, we all just voted with the, with the handrails.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it's not going to go well for this character, but it's interesting to account.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Travel point two.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're calling wild animal.
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: The assigned jury member here is Justin Wilder with all his saber tooth toys.
• 59:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: The key issues here.
• 59:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: Any to send these dare double 238.
• 59:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: If you haven't read this comic, it's fucking great.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: Go, go read it.
• 59:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really interesting.
• 59:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: A classic X-Men number 10, the backup story, which we did a script reading out in my show recently, Wolverine number 10, amazing Spider-Man, 324, X-Factor, 51 and 52, new mutants, 90 and 91, and finally Wolverine 41.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Here's some ending to Sentine narration for you.
• 59:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: The tiger lives by a fang and claw, 500 pounds of tents sinned you and coiled power, he is violence even in repose.
• 1:00:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: He sleeps, mates, hunts, kills, and eats.
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: When in captivity or when domesticated, the tiger begins to exhibit unnatural behavior.
• 1:00:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: He paces the limits of his turf, eats stones and dirt, attacks without provocation, consumes his own waste.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: But that is the animal.
• 1:00:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: This.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: is the lead.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber tutt is moved into the more locked tunnels and claim the mess is home.
• 1:00:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: He chases out vagrants and kidnaps a woman to be his mate, quote, something is missing.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: His lips curl and a feral rumble rolls deep in his chest.
• 1:00:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the hunger again.
• 1:00:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: The man who goes by the name of an extinct tiger opens up his senses.
• 1:00:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Within seconds, he tastes smells and hears all he needs to.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: He is same or two, and he likes to kill.
• 1:00:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: So he tries to get paid for it.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: These days, the big money is being paid to kill mute.
• 1:00:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's already slaughtered some more locks and is waiting for the go ahead to take out the X-Men.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: In the meantime, there is his mate, and there is sleep.
• 1:00:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: He yells at some kids.
• 1:00:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: He fights Daredevil in a deadly battle in the tunnels.
• 1:00:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: He slashes the throat of the girl he kidnapped, trying to kill her, so that Daredevil can't rescue her.
• 1:01:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber to the fleas, hungry, or than ever.
• 1:01:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: When he stalks Wolverine, we see him kill a woman.
• 1:01:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, in that classic X-Men backup story, there's a cool, address, maybe sex worker, I think her name is Frankie, and she dies really sadly.
• 1:01:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: We get a flashback to the day that Wolverine learned that silver fox had died.
• 1:01:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber-tooth and Wolverine fight in Madrepoir, and now in the present Wolverine identifies for the first time in narration that whatever he has, Saber-tooth wants.
• 1:01:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: Quote, he'd always helped himself to whatever was mine challenging me to stop him.
• 1:01:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: And he likes to attack every year on Wolverine's birthday.
• 1:01:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: In the present Wolverine finds out that some of the men who've been trying to kill him are now dead.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber-tooth slaughtered them and left a note that says no one gets to kill Wolverine except for him.
• 1:01:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: We see Saber-tooth has a gang in Mexico that he instructs to commit crimes and he tortures and kills those who defy him.
• 1:01:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: He fights silver-sable and Captain America and seemingly dies and a cave in at the end of this story.
• 1:01:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: Deciding them to kill the rest of the more locks.
• 1:01:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber Tooth Slotters, a character named Chicken Wings, then goes after Mole.
• 1:02:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber Tooth ends up shooting Archangel out of the air with a plasma rifle.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: This leads to razor sharp claws against razor sharp wings and a really cool savage battle in the snowy city of New York, a brilliant Louis Simonson story.
• 1:02:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: Until Sabertooth paralyzes Warren with a nerve poison rubbed on his claws, but then a metal wing got scree, leaving him for dead in the snow as he leads out.
• 1:02:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: We've now gone the era of full savage kicking in.
• 1:02:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: In the tunnels, Sabertooth hunts down some more locks who escaped the massacre.
• 1:02:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: and then ends up fighting Richter and Kalibin, and he tries killing them both.
• 1:02:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber-tooth takes particular joy and scaring Richter and threatening to torture him, but Richter fights back, and then the new mutants and the more locks closing before Kalibin breaks back, leaving him for dead.
• 1:02:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Again, getting more savvy.
• 1:02:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed is sleeping face down in the muck of the more lock tunnels among the alligators, and Logan is getting some memories back, including,
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: including remembering, again, that time that Creed killed Silver Fox on his birthday, he used a really ugly language to describe indigenous women here that we don't need to recount, but the word uppity is involved, which is awful every time, and the narration strongly suggests that Creed has Logan's father, well, at least his daddy.
• 1:03:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a big fight in the sewers and Creed admits that nothing brings him more joy than Logan brings him pain.
• 1:03:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: He fights cable in the tunnels as well before the fight ends in a helicopter with Creed falling to his seaming death with the child robot LCD, which is just a punishment all on its own, because then he has to hear her talk.
• 1:03:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: In issue 45, Saber tooth saves a woman from getting raped, but then knocks her out and robs her, then he ends up in a street bar brawl with Wolverine and Lady Death Strike, and then the hunter in darkness, we're going to have time to explain that guy.
• 1:03:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then there's a Tasmanian devil tornado of claws are renting blood as they slash each other in a big claw slash pile.
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed mentions that Wolverine is a son is like 40 times in this one issue.
• 1:04:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Ooh, I tagged in that last one just in without including it in the summary.
• 1:04:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I will take that part off.
• 1:04:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll end with it and read it.
• 1:04:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, actually, we'll just leave this sit and then say that's not part of your prosecution.
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: That was my mistake everybody, but go read the issue and it's fascinating.
• 1:04:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me turn it over to just a wild animal.
• 1:04:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's been caught murdering people in New York City.
• 1:04:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: This vicious and depraved killer has stalked our streets as if they were his personal hunting ground.
• 1:04:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: We are living in Saber Tooth's den.
• 1:04:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we have no idea that we're his prey.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now today, this court has decided to put this vicious creature on trial to stand for the deaths that he has caused.
• 1:04:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Saber Tooth made his mark on the sewers of NYC.
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: After he and his marauders committed the mass homicide of the more locked tunnels, Saber Tooth took to living in those now vacant, bloodied tunnels.
• 1:04:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't condone public exploration of city sewers, but teenagers are stupid.
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't mean they deserved to be attacked, captured, treated like possession.
• 1:04:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: He took an innocent woman against her will and claimed her as his mate.
• 1:04:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Luckily, a bit of those sewers run underneath the less than square mile that Daredevil manages the fuck out of, but even he was no match.
• 1:05:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Only driving Saber Tooth away by confronting his animal instincts with human logic.
• 1:05:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's playing games, and we, you and I, the civilians, are caught in the crossfire.
• 1:05:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Frenzy lost her life, just because she happened to be near Wolverine as Saber to toyed with him.
• 1:05:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Silver Fox, the love of Wolverine's life may be, at the time, was killed just to send a message to Logan, Saber to his laugh, relishing in the details of his kill.
• 1:05:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: He intentionally wanted to take everything away from Logan, daring him to stop him.
• 1:05:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a bully, a terror.
• 1:05:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: The defense will try to argue that Saber to this acting on animalistic instincts.
• 1:05:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: That perhaps, he doesn't know any better.
• 1:05:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And yet we see him leading a gang of criminal, killing a man as he's strung up, threatening a man over a group of hosts, stalking his prey and protecting his claim territory, he continues to attack and kill the mutants left alive from the brutal mutant massacre.
• 1:05:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: The animal let free on the city streets, looking to pick off Lucene.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when that doesn't work out, he goes for whoever else he sees that could make for a good target.
• 1:06:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Monaiical threats to the hero Archangel, like I want to kill you, slow and painful.
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to hear you scream and quote, violent attacks on Julio Richter for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
• 1:06:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Saber just needs to be removed from the streets.
• 1:06:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: He needs to face the consequences of his countless murders and it's up to you to make that happen.
• 1:06:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Prosecution rests, the defense will not take the stand.
• 1:06:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, the prosecution is taking extra care to build a case that Victor Creed is not human, but he does not deserve the right to fair trial or the right to a defense.
• 1:06:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Is sensational structuring of the events and question are only meant to distract you to make you see my client as less than human less than mutin nothing more than a wild animal and yet that is the only life Victor has ever known I don't need to replay all the details for you've heard the crimes twice we are aware of the charges but what I will point to are the circumstance the history.
• 1:06:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: You say Victor Creed behaves like an animal.
• 1:07:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I say that's all he's ever known.
• 1:07:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's how he was raised, caged and beaten by his father physically assaulted and punished for who he was, who he is.
• 1:07:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: The man we know as Victor Creed is the product of cruel and unusual circumstance.
• 1:07:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: A man who does not connect to our two or understand the human world as we see it.
• 1:07:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's operating on instincts.
• 1:07:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Once he doesn't even know why he follows, once he seems like he's trying to fight against.
• 1:07:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: When Daredevil questions what he's doing, it drives him mad, or finally helps him see sense.
• 1:07:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: In the files, we see back-to-back instances of just how playful Victor is.
• 1:07:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's having fun, the only way he ever has.
• 1:07:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: He knows the games that his best friend slash alleged son Logan loves to play, games like Hide and Seek and finds the dead woman.
• 1:07:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: just think, who in your life goes out of their way to make every one of your birthday's memorable?
• 1:07:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what Victor does for Logan, out of love.
• 1:07:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, racist slurs and murders aside, Victor cares about people.
• 1:07:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a man of tradition.
• 1:08:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a man of industry, creating jobs in Mexico while helping to defy unsenctioned international intervention.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: What's
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, does Captain America or Silver Sable have to tell the Mexican people how they should behave?
• 1:08:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a man that feels jealousy.
• 1:08:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: He sees a killer like Arcangel being celebrated as a hero.
• 1:08:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Victor just wants to be loved.
• 1:08:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: He just wants an emotional connection.
• 1:08:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: He wants a friend to play with and equal to test him in his physical prowess.
• 1:08:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: don't we all?
• 1:08:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: As the prosecution pointed out many times, but a non-savory ways, Victor has been unhoused recent.
• 1:08:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's vulnerable and protective of what areas he's able to claim for himself.
• 1:08:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sadly, that area is the undercity sewers of New York.
• 1:08:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when those areas are threatened, attempted murder, that just it just says murder, it's attempted.
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: I will point out, no murders at that point.
• 1:08:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: My client cannot stand for these crimes, just as a cat can't stand trial for killing a mouse.
• 1:08:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Generational instinct, and it's all Victor knows.
• 1:08:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I rest my, that was what if Donald Pierce were a defense attorney?
• 1:09:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, excellent.
• 1:09:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: My friend always thinks they're starting to get a little more bloody now just into you enjoy reading these old comics was there.
• 1:09:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was great because I mean, it's interesting.
• 1:09:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just how the through line of him being the beast of the the creature that he is and protecting what he feels his own.
• 1:09:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or at least like, you know, he stalked and hunted and killed, who were claiming this area.
• 1:09:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now he claims this area and fights anyone that'll challenge him on it.
• 1:09:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was just it provided a really interesting through line for a story about him living in the sewers and also his relationship to Logan.
• 1:09:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's fun to see him pop up in other titles, too.
• 1:09:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's fun to see him fighting Spider-Man and these other characters in the era.
• 1:09:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: uh... saver two versus archangel was a rat fight i thought i was really fucking uh... only time that he feels like he's got to pull out a giant rifle and shoot him down like this is a close combat intimate killer guy but he's no i i need to bring him to me the murder of chicken wings alone gives him a five in my book but there's plenty here that's awful uh... is that a five from everyone hold up your hand if so we've got okay it's thirty at thirty again in this section and it's not going to get better for this guy
• 1:10:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, but like compared to the last one, this would be lower than a five if that's what a five, right?
• 1:10:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: I would say, but I think evil is evil, right?
• 1:10:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five because it's murdering one murdering one person is evil, but murdering a hundred people's also evil and both are a five in my brain.
• 1:10:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, okay, trap 0.3, we're calling the glow.
• 1:10:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: The assigned jury member here is Joe Jones.
• 1:10:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Key issues are Marvel superheroes, volume 2, number 10, which ran like X-Men's side stories.
• 1:10:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's some really funny X-Men content in this era in the early 90s.
• 1:10:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, a one shot you have forgotten about.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Spider-Man, Punisher, and Saber 2, designer jeans, G-E-N-E-S, number 1.
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: We finally have Saber 2, the volume 1, numbers 1 through 4, and then X-Men unlimited number 3.
• 1:10:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: When Sabritooth was under arrest, the prison transport van crashed and he sought to escape and was attacked by Ms. Marvel Carol Danvers, who used every ounce of power she could put him down.
• 1:11:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Later, Sabritooth learned about charmers, one of the doctors from Weapon X, experimenting on animals that Empire State University, in an attempt to create more animal human hybrids, and he broke into the lab and slaughtered the animals that were being experimented on.
• 1:11:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: After a fight with Spider-Man and Punisher in the snow, in the zoo, during which he was shot multiple times, Saber took admitted to killing the animals, calling it mercy kill, but he denies allegations that he's been killing homeless people in the street.
• 1:11:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: It turns out charmers turned his own brother into a beast man, who has been committing those murder.
• 1:11:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber took the evil doctor and then escaped.
• 1:11:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: And by the way, this is the first time we see Saber tweets named used in a book title, that designer jeans one shot.
• 1:11:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Later, Cyborg, PSI, Cyborg delivered Saber Tooth to his enormous estate in Vancouver, where members of the hand attacked him and easily slaughtered them, with help from his aid birdie, who has a big ask gun and an even bigger ask ponytail.
• 1:12:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: After Birdie tends to Saber Tooth, who smokes a cigar in the tub, he has Birdie sued his animal rage, and she got brief access to some of the memories, and creed that Cyborg had unlocked.
• 1:12:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: She drives soothing the inner child, and he punches her in the face, and then it implies rapes her.
• 1:12:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: Burdy waits until Creed falls asleep, and then has mercenaries that she'd hired come in to kill him in his own home.
• 1:12:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: And he ends up captured and taken away, as he promises to return and kill her.
• 1:12:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: We see references to Creed's childhood, where he was locked in a cellar in chains, and his father would pull out his teeth.
• 1:12:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed was then taken to Tribune, an armored mysterious man,
• 1:12:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: who amplifies creased powers and plans to turn him into a killer under Tribune's control with a bomb under his skin if he disobeyes.
• 1:12:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Tribune is sent to kill Misty.
• 1:12:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: Before his mission, Saber 2 returns home to find Birdie fleeing and he chases her down on his motorcycle she's in a car and causes her to crash before he beats her up and makes her a company him on the mission.
• 1:13:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber Tooth fights Mystique who keeps choosing shapes to taunt him before he learns that she had been the woman Lenny Zalber that he'd slept with in Germany years before, and that their union had produced a son named Great and Creed who had been abandoned.
• 1:13:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: And now Creed is Tribune, Great and Creed is Tribune coming after them.
• 1:13:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Once he got the upper hand, Creed had a victor had the bomb removed without Anastasia.
• 1:13:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: killed a whole bunch of people, graden killed birdie, and creed responded by walking away, letting his shit kids stay alive.
• 1:13:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: Somehow respecting that the boy had hurt an innocent, like father, like son, question mark.
• 1:13:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is a brilliant Larry Hamas series.
• 1:13:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: See if we're two thens up in the next one, going on a killing spree, slaughtering priests and gunning maverick, as he searches for a new telepath to quiet his bloodlust.
• 1:13:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Comcast sent him to find an elderly telepathic mutants among the clan Yoshida in Japan, a saber-toothed thought bishop, gambit, and rogue.
• 1:13:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: And when she touched his skin, rogue is overcome by the need for blood!
• 1:14:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's screaming the blood!
• 1:14:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: I need the blood!
• 1:14:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Demonstrating the depth of Creed's addictive struggle.
• 1:14:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: He slaughteres ninjas and after the telepath on locks a memory of Creed slaughtering a kid in his team X days, he kills the old telepath as well.
• 1:14:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Xavier enters Creed's brain and finds a memory of Victor being chained in a cellar and tossed live rabbits for food.
• 1:14:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: Xavier decides to re-habilitate the Creed.
• 1:14:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: This school, Justin, do you want to give us this Xavier line?
• 1:14:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: Justin, the voice of Charles Xavier.
• 1:14:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: This school, my life is founded.
• 1:14:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Not only on the principles of helping our kind, but stopping the threat from evil mute.
• 1:14:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: No one fits that description of evil as clearly as free.
• 1:14:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very existed, it's fines, and what we fight again.
• 1:14:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let me turn it over to Joe.
• 1:14:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so first we own here for the classification.
• 1:14:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your honor, esteem members of the jury, the man on trial today, Victor Crete, press better known by the name Saber Tupus, a cold-blooded ruthless killer.
• 1:14:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is a predator who stalks and crazed upon his victory.
• 1:14:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: He delights him up.
• 1:15:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you will send, he takes perverse pleasure in seeing the terror and fear he provokes his victory before he mutilates.
• 1:15:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Unable to resist the bloodlust that consumes some bickers been killing for decades, we may count on the score of Bonnie's weight.
• 1:15:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Shield deputy director Jasper said, well, once described Victor Pete as an incurable homicidal psychopath, born killer.
• 1:15:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Victor Greed is a serial murderer or no better than Jack the Ripper or Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dhamma.
• 1:15:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: all homicidal maniac kill not because they have to but because they enjoyed it.
• 1:15:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: The same goes for victory.
• 1:15:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Men like Charles Xavier would like you to believe that Victor Creek would be cured of his murderous impulse, but his behavior and actually prove these evil down to core and beyond would be rehabilitation.
• 1:15:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even Charles Xavier himself would admit that men like they could breed or why he formed the accident of the express purpose to protect humans and humans alike from evil moons would do them harm.
• 1:15:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: As Xavier has said in his own words, no one fits said description of Evelyn's clearly is free.
• 1:15:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: His very existence defines us
• 1:15:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: According to Victor viewed himself as closely killed from money, Reven, and his view vengeance is form justice, and I, for I, blood for blood.
• 1:16:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Victor balances his scales by clicking paint on those who have inflicted paint on him.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: In his mad quest for Revenge, Victor shows no care or concern for the end of the lives that are harmed due to retaliation against those who have longed.
• 1:16:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Victor's disregard for human life is evident in his treatment of birdie, immune telepath and Victor forced to regulate giving him the glow, temporarily satiated,
• 1:16:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: and how did Victor Rick A. Birdie for assistance with physical abuse and mistreatment?
• 1:16:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Birdie was the unfortunate casualty when she got caught up in a conflict between Victor and his son, gravy pre.
• 1:16:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Had it not been for Victor's gross negligence, Birdie may be alive in the day.
• 1:16:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: In summary, Victor Crete is a menace of society and danger others.
• 1:16:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Victor's innumerable victims and their families deserve justice here today.
• 1:16:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not only must Victor Crevy found guilty of his crimes we punished for the cold send the law, but he must be contained so they can never harm another living soul again, prosecution rests, and now we will hear from the defense.
• 1:16:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today we have heard in narrative being spun of Victor Crevy as the ruthless and promise-cidal maniac Saber II.
• 1:16:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: While that may be one part of who Victor Crevy is, it doesn't tell the full story.
• 1:17:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: What is missing from the prosecution's narrative is Victor Creed is a victim child, as a young boy Victor was increasing in a seller by his father for years before the state.
• 1:17:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Victor's father treated the boy like a wild animal, shaming him up and beating him live rabbits or sustenance.
• 1:17:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: During his confinement, Victor's father forcedly pulled out the teeth and it encouraged the demon's soul.
• 1:17:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: The use of Victor suffered as a child led to irreparable damage to a site that no doubt put him on the course becoming the troubled individual you see for you now.
• 1:17:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: This reported that when the meat and tel-hat birdie used her glow under could be the she community of the manifestations in herself, during that interaction, the younger version of Victor asked birdie, who could be my friend, who downside beneath all that anger and rage, it's a lonely and hurt child who's learning kindness, passion.
• 1:17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Pictures of use and mistreatment of the hands was followed to bottom to hate rather than to love, and that hurting others is the only way to compensate for the hurt that he's experienced his life.
• 1:17:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because of his childhood trauma, Victor never properly felt the ability to empathize with others.
• 1:17:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's stunted emotional development.
• 1:17:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Recently, some man who feels no guilt or remorse ever murdered others.
• 1:18:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: While they design shoes or justifies action behavior, it does provide important context, consider when determining Victor's capability has missed the.
• 1:18:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: As the prospections are brought to evidence by clients on record safety only kills for two reads of money and revenge.
• 1:18:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I say we're too big to create as a history of operating a mercenary contract killer police to job without asking any question.
• 1:18:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: While we certainly should not condone murder of any time, there's tremendous difference between selling kills for compensation versus selling kills randomly and discriminated.
• 1:18:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: In addition to killing for money or a bench, my client has also been poor.
• 1:18:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: At times, for example, my client was abducted in place in the custody of someone find himself a tribune.
• 1:18:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: We will later have learned this actually, they would do sign grading free.
• 1:18:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Upon was placed under Victor Sgan and he was tasked with looking and limiting me to the seat.
• 1:18:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Should Victor disobey these orders and vice would dead?
• 1:18:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: With a life in jeopardy, how could Victor Plus would be expected or few, so sure.
• 1:18:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: The prosecution would likely to believe that Victor create is beyond redemption.
• 1:18:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We ability should pause.
• 1:18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Victor would not be the first to be informed under the care of Charles Xavier, taking Wolverine or Rogue for each of both respected members of the X-Men, but did not exactly have a speaking clean reputation for joining X-Men.
• 1:19:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is Victor create doomed to be the victim of his own bloodless for their major residen?
• 1:19:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or is he capable of becoming a reformer and respectable member of society?
• 1:19:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Only time will tell, but I can show you then, incarcerating Victor Cweed and locking away like the animal he has been treated as for his whole life.
• 1:19:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It would be robbing him of any opportunity for regaining this community to read the lecture.
• 1:19:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, the defense rest.
• 1:19:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Joe, what was it like stepping into this like early 90s?
• 1:19:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: We, this is kind of the first time I have a little sympathy for Cweed.
• 1:19:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: When we have like the glow and like him trying to make it in this world, like there's all of us doing interesting piece.
• 1:19:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: We see like the code he lives by a little bit.
• 1:19:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like this is the first time in his publication history where we start to understand more of the psychology behind the character, the motivation for the character we get the backstory that is a victim of trauma, which, you know, you have to feel some sympathy for, you know,
• 1:19:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: putting that into context with all of the awful things he's done before.
• 1:19:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't excuse it or justify it, but it does start to make sandwiches.
• 1:19:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is the first time where we stop seeing saber tube and we start seeing it.
• 1:20:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it does seem like a very pivotal moment on the patient.
• 1:20:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Which is also interesting because we've also seen the age of apocalypse version at this point where we see that it was possible, you know, rhythm, be got the right attention in the right way.
• 1:20:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting stuff.
• 1:20:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting because this is the one where we start to see what Victor would look like if he had his rage button sort of turned off and it is only once the rage button has turned off that he does attack bird it's one of those like we see him doing better thing throughout this section than the other two, but he does still completely of his own volition attack bird.
• 1:20:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like people enjoy the age of apocalypse version and they toyed with the idea of doing it.
• 1:20:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Can we can we redeem this one now?
• 1:20:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's not let's just keep on double down.
• 1:20:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: We love it.
• 1:20:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know that if we had like a scale that had like 0.5 this is probably where I put 0.5 like 4.5 because like I do sympathize with the abuse and I think we should take note of that, but again, we don't
• 1:20:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's no point five here, so it's either four or five.
• 1:21:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we have to push it to five.
• 1:21:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: There is nuance in regular court.
• 1:21:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: This is mutant court.
• 1:21:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're just going some, he's broken your system a little bit.
• 1:21:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: I will say it.
• 1:21:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's almost like we should have done like the Jan event dying, but it reversed.
• 1:21:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: Where would you just be?
• 1:21:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: The combination of saving the trial of the wasp.
• 1:21:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like she did nothing wrong, so we're just going to put her.
• 1:21:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: But this is a good way to recount character history too.
• 1:21:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me explain.
• 1:21:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, trial point four, that was 30 out of 30 everybody.
• 1:21:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: Trial point four, we're calling the catalyst.
• 1:21:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: The assigned jury member here was Allison Parent.
• 1:21:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Allison, I'm going to guess most of this was new content for you.
• 1:21:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's some words.
• 1:21:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
• 1:21:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: X-Men volume two, number 33.
• 1:21:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber tooth special, number one.
• 1:21:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: Maverick six and seven and Saber tooth and mistake one through four.
• 1:21:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: We learn some history between Creed and Gambit.
• 1:21:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed has been hired to steal an item named the Cheating Star from a woman named Genevieve and ends up sparring with Gambit the Con man.
• 1:21:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed ends up kidnapping Genevieve and Gambit's brother on Relabo and he only lets Gambit save one.
• 1:22:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Gambit chooses Onri, which means Genevieve dies.
• 1:22:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: running through the sewers, saber-tooth-elect cute cowabin, battles the X-Men, shreds Archangel's metal wing, which explodes as blood and bone beneath it, which is horrifying.
• 1:22:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: He takes some hostages, and he reveals that he no longer needs the glow, after Silok gave him a psychic lobotomy that one time.
• 1:22:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: He ends up with his ass kicked, maybe killed by an optic blast, and then taken in by the govern.
• 1:22:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: He is examined, restraint, and put in an inhibitor collar that prevents him from attacking anyone that has been programmed into it.
• 1:22:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: Then he's forced to be a government operative once again, this time assigned to X-Factor.
• 1:22:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: And this is the wild, single decision Valerie Cooper has ever made.
• 1:22:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's put the serial killer in a color on our, eventually he gets the color off.
• 1:22:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: And after a series of missions, he slashes at each of his teammates, leaving them in the infirmary.
• 1:22:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then he goes after the grandson of destiny, Trevor Chase, murdering Chase's family.
• 1:22:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: That is a story that's never been followed up on also.
• 1:22:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber 2000s down an old KGB analyst named Gregor Kogoshka, killing him in New York City before hanging up the body and then setting a trap for Elena Ivanova, a telepath who has an indelible memory of Saber 2000s killing her mother while Elena was still in the womb.
• 1:23:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I have an Elena Ivanova episode out there for those that want to hear more from her perspective.
• 1:23:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber II initially defeats Elena in battle in a battle that leaves her in a coma, but she did his mind some harm first.
• 1:23:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: Maverick enters the fight, savagely fights Creed, and leaves him drowning.
• 1:23:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Then we get a story that shows many years ago in Jerusalem, Victor Creed, and a most sought agent who was secretly a mystique.
• 1:23:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Look for a pre-cogname destiny, and they end up captured and horribly tortured by a Mart monster called the Hattlest.
• 1:23:43
  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, in the present, Sabre II, the Mystique have gone a while from X-Factor, rated a heli carrier, pulled a capsule out of a corpse, get chased by a mageons and end up in Switzerland, and then plot before attacking a group of techn assassins that work for aim, led by the evil Cypher, and this character has nothing to do with diagrams.
• 1:24:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed ends up in a moat filled with piranhas, and then there's a big battle with evil, awful, horrible villain, catalysts, who's just like a reprehensible Nazi character, and a bunch of aim monsters Before they kill all of their foes, really mystique is like the real murderer in this series like much more than saber-tooth is When they're done, they escape and she makes him put his collar back on, so the stories here are like not quite lined up continuity wise But it's just a smattering of late 90s things.
• 1:24:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Let me turn it over to Allison
• 1:24:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, uh, the defense will go first.
• 1:24:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, my client has rock no matter if his brain is is goo or not.
• 1:24:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when Scott Summers broke into his home, I believe he had committed a crime against my client.
• 1:24:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: My client could deserve to be able to defend himself.
• 1:24:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, my client was doing a service to rogue by telling her how, uh, what a dirty, dirty man gambit is.
• 1:24:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, I think he did
• 1:25:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: to say, he's doing his best, but it, and you know what, it wasn't good.
• 1:25:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and so he's fighting Caliban and in the whole, he has to all of the OG X men going after him.
• 1:25:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, it's, he's, I think it's really cool that he's able to take down so many.
• 1:25:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, how was he supposed to know that Arc Angel had blood in his metal wing?
• 1:25:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: How are we supposed to, we didn't know that?
• 1:25:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a new discovery.
• 1:25:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And lastly, I would say that his work with Mystique does show his ability to perform teamwork and collaboration to an extent and also that catalyst just like his trauma in the previous prosecution has talked about that he was also assaulted by catalyst and that that may have affected his capabilities.
• 1:25:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so prosecution, he, he kidnapped, he kidnapped Henri and that lady and tangled them off of a building and they gambit pick and just let that lady hit the ground.
• 1:26:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was, that was messed up.
• 1:26:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, electrocuted and calban, not not a good look.
• 1:26:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, he, yes, he's, he's planning weird things and rogues mine.
• 1:26:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: He, it's, it's a whole thing.
• 1:26:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, okay.
• 1:26:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he does he murdered.
• 1:26:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, does he kill a bunch?
• 1:26:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:26:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why that the prosecution rest that super to the mystique series is kind of rad I really like to Xman number 33 because it's the OG Xman against them and Bobby gets to do some cool stuff And they work really well together and it feels and when he hurts arcangel warms in like this This messiah pose.
• 1:26:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very it's very beautiful very beautiful coloring amazing
• 1:26:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm sitting here slow to have camera with all my war and merchandise and this is going to be a hard hard five for me because that was that was brutal.
• 1:26:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was unnecessary also like any situation where Maverick has to come in and Maverick has to be the good guy like you've really fucked stuff up.
• 1:27:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
• 1:27:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm really tempted to make a hard five jokes.
• 1:27:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: God.
• 1:27:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Go bigger Chad.
• 1:27:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: Is it five for everyone in this section?
• 1:27:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: I need to be convinced as I'm a fourth, right?
• 1:27:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: I need someone to convince me.
• 1:27:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know he kills people, but a lot of this.
• 1:27:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's being coerced.
• 1:27:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a suicide or the suicide squad response with stuff they do on the suicide side.
• 1:27:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: He was not coerced into killing jenavies.
• 1:27:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, but seriously, that's like two murders.
• 1:27:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's so much less than all the other ones.
• 1:27:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, but I'm sure, and he didn't even let her put on pants before he dangled her off of it.
• 1:27:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:27:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way.
• 1:28:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a five-way
• 1:28:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then Sabertooth opened season one through four.
• 1:28:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll notice we are not landing on the cracoa stories specifically I didn't want to talk about Sabertooth war in this era and the Victor Laval series.
• 1:28:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sabertooth is, it's a story about redemption and we've talked about it a lot on the show.
• 1:28:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I just didn't include it here, even though it's the best.
• 1:28:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: The Victor Laval Sabertooth volume one from the cracoa era is amazing.
• 1:28:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
• 1:28:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: While wearing the collar for X-Factor still, Saber Tooth ended up learning that, teaming up with wild child reluctantly to hunt down a pair of serial killers, the Yev-Groth brothers, using verbal cruelty and physical threats, Creed helped wild child complete the mission, gaining some leverage and eventually freeing himself from his containment collar.
• 1:28:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a separate sheet of metal woman named Bonnie and protected her from soldiers who kept attacking slaughtering the men who were coming after her.
• 1:28:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: He soon learns that she's been infected with a plague and unless she's killed in 16 hours, the plague is going to spread killing millions.
• 1:29:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Credence up slaughtering a bunch of men and soldiers who injected Bonnie, but when the cure was destroyed, he had to kill her as well.
• 1:29:13
  [SPEAKER_04]: Finally, I'll depree on aisle depree.
• 1:29:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: People were slaughtered and Sasquatch ended up joining the Coast Guard in investigating, believing Saber-toothed to be behind the attacks.
• 1:29:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed left Sasquatch impaled in a pit trap full of spears, and then soon realized it was a flesh eater, one of those big white furry flesh eating monsters in Canada.
• 1:29:33
  [SPEAKER_04]: We don't say the W word on this show that had been committing the murders.
• 1:29:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: Creed ends up killing the creature and wearing it's fur like a fur coat.
• 1:29:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I want to point out there's a number of modern saber-tooth titles from the Darkhold Ravencroft era to even the the more recent the dead don't talk that we didn't include here.
• 1:29:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of saber-tooth prequels happening right now while he's dead.
• 1:29:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then God this saber-tooth war alone is so much to contend with.
• 1:29:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: But let me turn it over to Scott.
• 1:29:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you Chad.
• 1:30:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate the opportunity to address the jury.
• 1:30:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll start off with the prosecution here.
• 1:30:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, as you've heard previously throughout the trial, this is a sick and twisted man.
• 1:30:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I use the term man loosely.
• 1:30:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is an animal that is gentlemen.
• 1:30:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what do you do with an animal that goes wild?
• 1:30:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: You contain it or you put it down.
• 1:30:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, quite frankly, here we see continued bad behavior from Victor Creep.
• 1:30:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: He, a company's Kyle Gidney, the innocent wild child, um, up to Canada.
• 1:30:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: To, uh, ostensibly help Kyle get vengeance for his friend, Lori, who's been brutally murdered by former acquaintances of Creep, the Ev Graph from.
• 1:30:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: How does he know these Russian serial killers?
• 1:30:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, attracts, like, ladies and gentlemen.
• 1:30:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And throughout this whole process, when Kyle is facing off, one of them, against one of the two brothers, chop chop, a great friend's victor.
• 1:30:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a character, a chop chop chop chop chop.
• 1:30:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's real, unfortunately.
• 1:31:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: While Kyle gets to the fight with chop chop, chop chop ends up, spear through the meat hook.
• 1:31:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you see that, Creed enjoys this.
• 1:31:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Creed enjoys that Kyle was involved in the situation
• 1:31:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: him engaging behavior that is more common to Victor him.
• 1:31:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's corrupting the youth and worse of all.
• 1:31:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: He gets all these painkillers from the brothers that he's going to use to gradually get rid of the collar.
• 1:31:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in addition to helping sort of the death of Chopchap and Chopchap's brother, who is named I'm blanking on at the moment, he gets a lot of controlled substances that he's going to use to escape from the collar to commit more crime terrible.
• 1:31:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, but the time we get to the Mary Shelley overdrive, um, Saber II is in this situation, he encounters this woman who, uh, really Mary, who really, really gets off on the tense violence that he in gay.
• 1:32:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, now ostensibly he is trying to help her, but she is also, uh, affected.
• 1:32:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, if she's not killed, this infection is going to be released.
• 1:32:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what does Victor do?
• 1:32:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Victor tries to keep her a lot, knowing that it will impact hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people.
• 1:32:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he only at the end reluctantly kills, reluctantly, and finally, in open season, it is the rare, rare instance where he is not the main antagonist.
• 1:32:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: But he is still an antagonist, he's the secondary antagonist of, and he, you know, it's a very uncomfortable situation where Walter Langowski has to be the hero, because quite
• 1:32:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody likes Sasquatch, but he, he Sasquatch is brutally impaled and by the end of this whole sort of disturbing chain of events, he walks off with the pelt of the sentient monster that killed.
• 1:32:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then skin.
• 1:33:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, admittedly, this was terrorizing the fine people of this part of a mocanada, but still, rather than taking this preacher justice, he, uh, he skinned it alive.
• 1:33:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, as for the defense, well, we're going to play in sanity and throw ourselves at the mercy of the court because quite frankly, Victor Cree is an evil irreducible monster and even the little good that he does do some good here, he does save those children, he does save Canadian Coast Guard
• 1:33:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: moments for him, which, you know, great.
• 1:33:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So don't give him the chair, maybe, but, you know, walk him up.
• 1:33:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, never given him the chair.
• 1:33:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Scott, do you have enjoyed reading these comics?
• 1:33:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what was like to put them all together.
• 1:33:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:33:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I actually, I really enjoy the Mary Shelley overdrive story.
• 1:34:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: It holds up.
• 1:34:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've read it years ago and I was surprised.
• 1:34:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: It held up really well.
• 1:34:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:34:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: You get to make the Denjale interview the midnight.
• 1:34:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's really fun.
• 1:34:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, I want to check that out.
• 1:34:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, open season.
• 1:34:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, I did not, I did not like, I felt disgusting rooting for Walter Mangeowski.
• 1:34:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, that, that was a sick thing to make me mad.
• 1:34:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: Now, through this era, say we're too, it's in a fucking ton of comic books.
• 1:34:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: He joins the Avengers.
• 1:34:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's the inversion stuff.
• 1:34:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's in weapon X force or that, that the, what's that but called Wolverines that runs forever.
• 1:34:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a weapon X to
• 1:34:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: title that he's in forever.
• 1:34:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: He has like 500 appearances.
• 1:34:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then on Cricola, he kills that man and like in Hawkspawks goes to the pit.
• 1:34:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: The Laval series, the Laval series gives Sabritooth this like he becomes like the king of the hell and like works with the exiles to get away.
• 1:34:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: And then he ends up on another island where he's experimented on and then a bunch of alternate Sabritooth's come in and then that launches into Sabritooth War.
• 1:34:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: It just was too much continuity that like
• 1:35:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: his name.
• 1:35:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: So we didn't include those here.
• 1:35:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: But again, he has a ton of X-Men titles.
• 1:35:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: Do we have questions or comments from the jury based on this last section of silver twigs history?
• 1:35:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's let that woman die.
• 1:35:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the thing that I always keep thinking about is like he's like talking with a protagonist having a conversation with him.
• 1:35:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's like
• 1:35:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you forgot about her or whatever.
• 1:35:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, no, I didn't.
• 1:35:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, so it's just kind of implied that he like either left her to die or killed her off panel, which is not great, like it's there's a pattern with him where basically every woman that comes his way like either like tries to kill her or actually does killer.
• 1:35:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just like if you're a woman stay away from stay with you.
• 1:35:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's all I gotta say.
• 1:35:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, unless you're like a mistake or Monet.
• 1:35:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:35:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: Mary Shelley overdressed really interested in basically is like a it does not vibe with a lot of the other Sabre stuff because while yeah, he's still Sabre still like sicko and say this he does like save the world in that War the very like the East Coast of America and he does it explicitly like to do that too like it
• 1:36:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I, there's very few instances of Saber doing something purely heroic, even especially like something that he wants, he likes the girl.
• 1:36:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like he does like the attention gets more and he kills her knowing it will save everybody.
• 1:36:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I, I don't know.
• 1:36:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's, it's a really interesting purpose.
• 1:36:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: When he's not in the main focus away from the X-Men, what happens?
• 1:36:21
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 1:36:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, these are fascinating comics.
• 1:36:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: What's our, what's our vote on this section,
• 1:36:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: still murders, so it's still five.
• 1:36:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: So this guy's 100% evil, which I think he would agree with, like he's not even gonna argue with that.
• 1:36:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's gonna say fuck your human laws and then he'd slaughter each one of us.
• 1:36:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: The interesting thing, and I think the thing we haven't really emphasized with Saber Ptutus, we're starting our wrap up, is this is one of the most recognizable X-Men villains.
• 1:36:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: We definitely recognize Magneto, Juggernaut, and Saber Tooth.
• 1:36:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think he has more brand than Apocalypse does, which is fascinating.
• 1:36:52
  [SPEAKER_04]: This guy is in the movies.
• 1:36:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: He is in the cartoons.
• 1:36:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: We think of like Tyler Maine in that giant pose.
• 1:36:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: We think of the huge wrestling fights and the gutted claws.
• 1:37:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: And we find ways to bring him back again and again and again.
• 1:37:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: He has been cloned so many times.
• 1:37:08
  [SPEAKER_04]: He has been inverted so many times.
• 1:37:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: But he has core relationships with a lot of people
• 1:37:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: person.
• 1:37:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: I almost want to wonder like I always think like what story would I write, but I kind of just want to write him as the big threat.
• 1:37:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, watching Canon Bulversus Saber 2, the Jubileversus Saber 2, Tsilak or Boom Boomer cable versus Saber 2, he's a fascinating character to put anyone up next against a twin choir doesn't like him very much.
• 1:37:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's for fuck sure.
• 1:37:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of really interesting history with this character as a threat for our other characters.
• 1:37:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: So, start wrapping up your final thoughts about Saber 2 then.
• 1:37:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: What you've learned about him today are you more or less fond of him as a result of those thoughts.
• 1:37:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: I always announce at the end of every trial what our next three trials are going to be in October.
• 1:37:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Watch for the trial of Eric the Red, a Devonshikari, who is the big Shiar character that has a large presence in X-Men's stories despite being relatively minor.
• 1:38:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: That will be a little bit more academic focused and the Patreon will be all Shiar characters, including Scott and I tackling the fraternity of raptors with our friend Darrell, which is
• 1:38:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: I will journey Darkhawk as its own thing.
• 1:38:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: In November on the show, Storm is getting the focus, which is excellent, and we're going to be doing all storm, storm featured characters over on the Patreon, and then we're closing the year out everyone with this is not an X-Men character, but we have some fascinating conversations.
• 1:38:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: We're giving Aunt May the focus.
• 1:38:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's right, the elderly ant of a Peter Parker is going to get a full academic panel and over on the Patreon we're going to be talking about all characters that are like 100 years old.
• 1:38:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: So stay tuned, everyone's smiling and confused by that announcement.
• 1:38:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: Stay tuned for Aunt May at the end of the year.
• 1:38:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: Follow the show at Grimalk and Underscorlean on Instagram most readily and if you haven't purchased my
• 1:38:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: book game Mormon dad.
• 1:38:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd love it if you would give it a look, a read and a review on good reads.
• 1:39:02
  [SPEAKER_04]: It is very helpful.
• 1:39:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: As this comes out, I will have seen many of you at the uncanny experience and can't wait to hang out with all of you in person.
• 1:39:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say that Saber 2 is just by being a terrible terrible terrible person is that's what makes him so interesting as a character when he shows up, you know, exactly what you're going to get here.
• 1:39:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: kind of preparing yourself for it and your curious as to how far you go.
• 1:39:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can find us at escape the module and you can also email at modusverspotitgmail.com and we got stuff going on.
• 1:39:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming we're reading comics, we're making podcasts.
• 1:39:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are we doing?
• 1:39:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what do you go into next, actually?
• 1:39:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
• 1:39:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
• 1:39:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and September we're doing, um, uh, back to all on our Monday episodes.
• 1:39:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: We have four dead pull ups.
• 1:39:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's then we're also doing the next level titles at Friday episodes.
• 1:39:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, we're a mode oferspotting email.com and we're mode oferspotting most social media.
• 1:39:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love Saber 2.
• 1:39:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so much for letting me be on the trial of Saber.
• 1:39:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's my very favorite guy.
• 1:39:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, he's the worst.
• 1:39:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the whole point.
• 1:39:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and if you would like to listen to Chad talk about Saber 2, the victory to evolve.
• 1:40:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: series chat is on in this episode of escape the mojo verse talking about the vector the mall series.
• 1:40:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: So and we had such a good time with you doing.
• 1:40:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they're based on the redemption conversation.
• 1:40:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 1:40:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jo.
• 1:40:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm thinking of this quote from Adam's family values where debbies like so I killed so I mean So I destroyed countless innocent lives.
• 1:40:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's like safer to like if we put in my trial today That'd be kind of it's like response.
• 1:40:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So like yeah, so what what are you gonna do about it?
• 1:40:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a killer.
• 1:40:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I do you know I'm safer to like that's my name like it comes with the game
• 1:40:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this has been a lot of fun.
• 1:40:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed reading these issues and discussing say we're too.
• 1:40:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: In terms of what I learned about him, I learned that I probably would not want to walk alone and night around table two.
• 1:40:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be like, I want to stay away from him.
• 1:40:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would encourage everyone else to stay away from him.
• 1:40:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to know like probably like all the X-Men characters like who's probably the character who likes him the most like or like would have comment like a you know an interesting like perspective of him so they do like If universally everyone the X-Men kind of hates this guy so I would like to find kind of like the one person who's like yeah, that's a bad but like that I really like that'd be a really hard thing so I'm a writer for a IPT you can follow me on Instagram, who's guy at friend of dazzler
• 1:41:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you can check out what I'm writing over there, um, on Instagram, Boost Guy, or you can go to APPT.com to check out.
• 1:41:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I was on the Adrienne Tomb's trial on Dream Elton Lane with Justin, so you could check that out.
• 1:41:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I also recently was on Matt Allison Show, where we were talking about house to them.
• 1:41:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: They just wrapped up their house at them, uh, coverage.
• 1:41:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So go check that out.
• 1:41:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, if you haven't, let's build up
• 1:41:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can also visit the Scott on the Clone Despieracy podcast and just on the XY podcast.
• 1:41:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone has podcasts on here.
• 1:41:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: It sent me.
• 1:41:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I show up on people's podcasts.
• 1:41:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: What I do.
• 1:41:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Chan.
• 1:41:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Great to see you, my friend.
• 1:41:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Scott and then Justin.
• 1:41:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thanks again for having me, Chad.
• 1:42:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for not making me relive the trauma of
• 1:42:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: and never seen again.
• 1:42:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: September, clone conspiracy comes back after our summer hiatus.
• 1:42:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to continue on with the early uh... one saga and we're coming up on the first appearance uh... the Scarlet Spider.
• 1:42:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you
• 1:42:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some of you all have seen at the uncanny experience.
• 1:42:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to apologize again for hitting any of you with the wings They're very big and I don't have great peripheral vision, so apologize What else is coming up near a comicon if you're there say hi?
• 1:42:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I will be booster gold for a big chunk of it who has never done anything wrong.
• 1:42:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it'll be fun and all see some of you soon
• 1:42:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: This has been a lot of fun and a lot of understanding of Saber 2 as a character and just a bad guy, the bad guy is why we need him though, we love as a bad guy, but like having them all stacked one after another makes you feel kind of sad.
• 1:43:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like he was like, I can't why you redeem a villain every once in a while so you can get a little bit of.
• 1:43:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: hope in the overall, but like I just he's the best there isn't what he does though because come on you don't want to mess with that to have him against Wolverine who's so iconic for what he is and to to take it a step in another direction that the villain is supposed to be a shade of the hero.
• 1:43:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think he does that to a
• 1:43:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Justin, I'm half of the X-Wife podcast.
• 1:43:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can find us on our podcast platforms at the X-Wife podcast or on Instagram at THEXWIFE podcast.
• 1:43:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a pun that I'm supposed to say, but I didn't.
• 1:43:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: you can also find I'm on all sorts of these guys shows and this show and I'll be at uncanny.
• 1:43:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be at New York Comic Con.
• 1:43:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll be talking about the brood on our show in September, even, you know, I pulled so many, so many Sanbertooth related action figures because why not, uh, brood Wolverine.
• 1:44:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love it.
• 1:44:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: I have a lot of thoughts about Saber Tooth.
• 1:44:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a template of character silhouette.
• 1:44:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: So if you picture your team, Wolverine kind of starts the, like you have to have the scrappy guy with the claws.
• 1:44:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber Tooth is a different version of that.
• 1:44:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Laura Kinney and Scout and Okihiro is Helverine and Farrell and Wildside.
• 1:44:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, there's so many versions of like the animal listed character.
• 1:44:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: Saber Tooth's character that I'm a little weary of seeing in as the main thing, right?
• 1:44:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think he's the big fight that the fight you build toward, but seeing him as a main member of the team, or even as the protagonist, I'm a little weary of.
• 1:44:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: The recent, like, any time Frank Teary writes Saber Tooth, I can guarantee I'm just going to get a little sick, right?
• 1:44:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like, there's like it, but when he's given a lot of thought and when you bounce him off of his interesting characters, that's when I almost like this guy, the most.
• 1:44:58
  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad he's not Wolverine's biological father.
• 1:45:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: I am most interested if I was to write this character in exploring his family members.
• 1:45:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: I want to write about his siblings and how they are different from him, almost more than I want to write about Victor himself.
• 1:45:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's some tangential saber to the content.
• 1:45:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's really interesting.
• 1:45:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, it's been fascinating doing all this like savage tiger shit of the show this month.
• 1:45:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I hope everybody is enjoyed the content and be ready for the giant space opera.
• 1:45:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: That is the she are as we jump into the war of roses and Star Wars universe that the content will take us to next time.
• 1:45:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you to my dear friends for spending your Sunday afternoon with me.
• 1:45:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: I so appreciate nerdy, delicious and wonderful friends to hang out with.
• 1:45:38
  [SPEAKER_04]: So it's been a joy to have you all here.
• 1:45:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks everybody for the ongoing support.
• 1:45:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: We will see you all back here.
• 1:45:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Next week on the Grimalkin Lane Show, where we have a script read of X-Men Number 104, which is the return of back Hito on Grimalkin Lane.
• 1:45:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: He hasn't been here in a while, so we'll see you back here next time.
• 1:45:54
  [SPEAKER_04]: Bye friends.
• 1:45:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
• 1:45:57
  [SPEAKER_04]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
• 1:45:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah, with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
• 1:46:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: Look for us on Patreon where we are releasing weekly episodes about obscure characters and facts.
• 1:46:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a great way to participate with the podcast for only just a couple of dollars a month and it helps support what we are doing here.
• 1:46:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: Also, the best way you can help
• 1:46:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Grimmulkin Lane is by sharing and liking and subscribing, but also please leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.
• 1:46:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll see you back here next time on Grimmulkin Lane.