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Beside Every Calling | Episode 20: You Are Enough. Keep Becoming. · Beside Every Calling

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Beside Every Calling, where a life you love is formed beside the call and not lost within it.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: If your date night has occasionally included a hospital stop, or your kids played Let's Baptize in the pool instead of Marco Polo, you understand this rhythm.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Across every season, from little ones to leadership transitions to emptiness, we live beside the call while creating lives we love along the way.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: So please get comfortable and let's dive into today's episode.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hi friends, and welcome to this episode of Beside Every Calling, where a life you love is formed beside the call and not lost within it.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Debbie Daniels.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Joe Barber.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And welcome to today's episode where we're going to talk about comparison and insecurity in ministry.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't want to talk about it.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, listen, comparison and insecurity, I personally battle that a lot.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: But um, Debbie, have you ever struggled with either one of those or in ministry especially?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I really think it's beyond ministry.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's every, I think male and female, this is a universal thing.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think most of us, unless you are really, I don't want to say self-absorbed, but you just really think you're the thing, um, you might not struggle with it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: But most of us really do.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And especially for me, I would say more in ministry than my personal life.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've always felt pretty comfortable in my own skin.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I dress, you'll notice I always wear what's comfortable to me.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I do things that I like.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if anyone else likes it, like that's the thing I love.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even those of you on YouTube watching me slowly have eight colors of hair because I'm trying to blend my gray.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I really appreciate those of you that are just on podcast platforms and haven't watched this crazy transition.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other side of it, I think I'm gonna love it for me.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing it for anyone else.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: But ministry, I think because I didn't grow up in the church, I've always tried to find people as I'm sorry I'm saying it again, find your people.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the people that I thought, oh, she or he is doing it like I would like to do it.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I did compare myself, and a lot of times they had gifts and talents I don't have.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm gonna brag on you in the season one where I discovered you play the piano and you are the full, you're the total pastor's wife.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I do not play the piano, I have no musical ability, I can't sing, and I just think I struggled with, I don't have the typical gifts that people say for a pastor's wife at the time.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I did struggle with living in my own skin and thinking, but what can I bring to this party and being okay with that?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, let me clarify.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a four-fingered Nelly.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not nothing, nothing is very good.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was just, it was great for our first church to get us through a little bit, but that was it.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'm the same way.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I comparison um in ministry is I think it's the devil's little way of just shooing us off the off the path, you know, getting us entangled in some thoughts that we probably shouldn't even be thinking about.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I will talk about, let me talk about my insecurity.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of insecurities, you know, and I feel like that's kind of like um the feeder for my comparison, you know, it's like I'm I'm not great at this, or I don't have this, or or I just feel not all put together, or I just feel whatever I'm feeling, and then I go into a group or just or I meet somebody or whatever, and if I feel insecure, I'm just I'm comparing the entire time.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: It just be it's like the natural next thought for me.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I do, I do have to recognize, and I, and I have, I have done this a million times where um you're just talking to somebody and you realize, oh my word, look what they're doing, or I'm so happy for them, but at the same time, oh, I have I have failed miserably.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I am like, what have I done with my life?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, kind of thing.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um I do honestly think that's just that's like I think the devil's standing over there just cheering when I'm taking those thoughts in my head and and pushing me down.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: The creation that God created is me and you and everybody else, and everything he's made me to be is his prime creation, and I'm like, yeah, I'm not enough, you know, or whatever.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it just it just boils over in my mind.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: But that's kind of key too, right?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Where it when you start to compare and that insecurity, it always ends up, I'm not enough.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and there's not a single scripture that says you're not enough.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so we are enough, and we're uniquely made.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I keep one of the best things someone said to me is Debbie, God already had it.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pastor's wife I loved, and she would get up and it was so calming, like her voice and her presence, everything about her.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's when we were in Oklahoma, and I would seriously, I wanted to sit at her.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just loved, and I thought I'm loud and I have a crazy voice and all these other things.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And this precious old soul said to me, Debbie, but God already has her, He needs you to be you, and it's a different space and place for your calling.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that really did help me.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I I still go back to that, but comparison, even in our current roles, I laugh that I'm 60 and I'm still myself.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um not it, there's some positive ways, right?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because we can also look at people and say, but I want that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how did she or he get there?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's and then follow there's a pattern, but your problem with comparison and insecurity when it becomes the negative side of it, I think, is when it makes you feel not enough.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I agree a hundred percent.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I and that's again, I have battled that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've been let me just say, for most of my life, I've been pretty confident in myself.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've been a loner, um, which means I I've I had friends, but usually in that group of friends, I'm the one making the decision to follow Christ, you know, or whatever.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they're still wonderful friends, but it's like I I was okay with that.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so in ministry, I still bring that to the table.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I'm I'm okay to do whatever the Lord tells me to do, even though people around me don't do it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, there is this uh battle, I guess I want to say, of always saying, well, you could be more, you know, or you know, look at that person, they really are doing something.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You should just step it up, you know, or whatever.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not you're you're exactly right.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what the Lord is calling us to.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to sometimes say, you know, those thoughts, they don't come from the Lord.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was doing laundry, that's probably about a month ago, in our home here, and some thoughts like that came to my my head, like, my goodness, you're what are you doing?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're you know, what are you doing?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally put, I just threw it through the basket on the ground, it clomped really hard, it was full of laundry, and I said, that is not from the Lord.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Leave, just leave me, leave me.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is not right.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is why am I going down that rabbit trail?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it took me a couple minutes, but I finally had to get some other thoughts going, turn on some worship music, and uh just get my thoughts right.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so good, Jill, because I think there is a there is a spiritual battle.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: But God, I mean, God, the Bible talks about it, but we don't even see.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if that little thought gets in your head and you let you feed and water that, before you know it, you don't like your husband, your kids, your church, where you are, that you that other person has it all together.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to say, if we knew their life, um, there's a gal at our that we pastored in Pasadena, and I loved her.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Her name is Judy.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: To this day, she's still one of my favorite humans on the planet.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: But when you look at Judy, she's truly one of the most put together, beautiful souls you'll meet, right?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: But what people didn't know was all the heartache and the brokenness with a relationship and her family and the other pieces.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And when she shared that with my Wednesday night women that I was teaching, it was a game changer because everyone thought Judy has it all together.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then they see, oh no, she doesn't.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she openly shared, and God's done crazy beautiful things that she still shares.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I loved her for being so honest, where I had her on such a pedestal, and then you're like, oh, she's dealing with stuff too.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And from knowing you and I truly have passed her to know thousands of people, like Scott and I were talking last week.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: And isn't it crazy that we know thousands of families?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it helps us because we're really thinking about the next decade of our life.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're planners and we love to strategize what we want and don't want.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and talking about the families we want to have great relationships with our adult kids and what that looks like, but it does leave a path.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like a I don't even know if that's the right saying, but success in a sense leaves a trail.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so does failure.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like you want to talk about failure in ministry, start entertaining the thoughts of your high school boyfriend where you didn't have a mortgage or children and everything was perfect, and you just went out on Friday night dates, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, of course that was good because you didn't have all the other stuff.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think when we start to compare and go down that trail, it's really bad because everyone has stuff.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, everybody has stuff.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, let me ask you this, or let's talk about this, Debbie.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are some things in in our ministry spouses' lives that uh that nobody really talks about that is part of that comparison?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I know we've mentioned like other churches, you know, other ministries.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I as a woman, you know, sometimes it's uh other hairstyles, you know, or other uh she's so much more prettier or beautiful or, you know, or you know, those little little things that can kind of kick kick you off guard or whatever.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think people don't talk about that.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or like you said, some people have people on pedestals when they really don't know the backstory.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that backstory can consist of financial pressures or uh children issues or you know, marriage issues, you know, all of that that people are dealing with and the Lord's trying to help them with.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I just think I think comparison can just here's one thing.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we compare something that we think is happening from another person and it's not even there.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like your like your friend, you thought you had it all together, and it's like, oh man, I've got to look like her because she has it all together, not knowing her backstory.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: When we when we don't know the story, sometimes we create a story to have it compared to, and it's not always right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I just and I've done that too.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I'll be the first to confess until I learned that person's backstory.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's like, oh wait, yeah, oh, I now know how to pray for you and you're you're as real as we are, you know, kind of thing.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I just think there's a lot of things that people don't talk about that they compare.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I think in ministry, what we talk the least about is our marriages because it's taboo, because you and personally I think it's you don't want to know, like right, right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just you gotta find your people.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to say, don't the comparison in ministry marriages is wrong because you no one else is married to your spouse, and no one else is married to you, and no one knows when the doors are closed at night in your home what what that relationship is like.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say, as we've talked in previous episodes, if that's your your husband said it so well, if that's failing, your ministry is gonna fail.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can only keep that private and awful for so long, and it's gonna come out into everything because you're not gonna be happy.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say, Scott and I have had to work multiple times on things.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're in a good season now, but boy, when Sophie left and we were empty nesters, it was like, What?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: For the last two decades, we've just talked children's tag team parented.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: He and it was just like, oh my land, we had to date again and figure out do we even like each other when we're together?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And now we're together 24-7, like a retired couple, only traveling and living in hotels.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I can say I do like him and I think he likes me.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what happened is we really realized how we the humor that we each bring out in each other is really fun.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's still stuff that drives us both crazy.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if we were just looking at other married couples our age, I think you'd look at some and say, well, they have it all together, it looks better on their and it's like, no, you have to figure out what is your life, what can you control and what can't you, and then create a life you love.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and it's it's hard.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: And people, I think, want the easy way out, like, oh, it's just gonna, I'm just gonna pray about it.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, prayer is great, but you probably need therapy too.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that is hard, hard work.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if you want to get better instead of bitter, you need to do the hard work.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like working out.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: It, you know, I say I keep saying I need to wear my I have a vest now for muscle.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to build my bone density at 60, all these things.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a plan, but actually doing it is really hard.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I keep telling Scott, this is so simple.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: If I would wear it two days a week and do my weights, I'm supposed to have better bone density.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's simple, but it's not easy, it's really hard.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this whole episode comparison and that is simple, so simple.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do it, be happy with yourself.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not easy.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you we're talking about our ministry marriages, you know, or our marriages in ministry, however you want to say it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think what also happens with comparison is if you're if you're the pastor and spouse of a flock of a congregation, I I mean, this this kind of happened to Sam and I a little bit at one of our places we were pastoring.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a lady came up to us and we were just kind of talking, and she was not talking bad about her husband, just just talking about him, you know.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't even remember all the stuff she was saying, but she alluded to to the both of us, like, oh, you guys don't, I'm sure don't have that issue because you're the pastors, you know, and and it's like the the the flock compares themselves and their marriages to you all, like we're superhumans, like we've got this relationship thing just because we said yes to the call, you know, down.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh, I'm sorry to disappoint you.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, I didn't go into it with her there, but that comparison like happens to us and it it does a couple things, I think.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: It puts pressure on you guys, uh on the pastor and spouse to say, oh, oh, people think that, you know, first of all, I was kind of shocked that that was a reality that was out there.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And secondly, another another time in another place we were pastoring, another sweet lady was just talking to me, and she said, Well, I know you guys, uh, you guys probably have it all figured out, kind of the same, going down the same route.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And she was also talking about a hurt that she was experiencing.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, and I'm sure you guys, you know, you're called, so you probably don't experience those kind of hurts.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's literally what she said.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, She's a wonderful lady, but I'm just like, oh my word, no, we we deal with hurt all the time, you know, like almost every week, somebody's emailing or saying something or criticizing or whatever.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, it's just like the comparison is not only from us to other people, but I think it's from our flock to the to the people that are leading them, which is unfair, is what I'm trying to say.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: It shouldn't happen.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if anybody, just if you're feeling that, you know, first of all, I'm sorry.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Second of all, that's a that's a just an unrational, uh, irrational uh comparison for that to be out there.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And on the marriage part, you do need to be really wise in who you share with because that's not something you want to share with everyone in your church.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're listening and you are your marriage, if you're honest, it just sucks right now.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like you two are praying, one of you dies in the night and the other one can go on.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Scott and I have had that season.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, the kids need me and not you.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna pray it's you.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we've had, I mean, truthfully, you just have seasons that are hard and you're working through.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And get the help you need, and then on the other side of it, be willing to be honest with people that yeah, we did even this sharing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe my husband's gonna be like, What?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: You shared that.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: But we both were like, Oh, you're the last thing I want to see tonight.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just a season of being mad at each other um over stuff that we'd stuffed down for years and needed to work through.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that you need to get the help.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: But again, that sounds easy, but it is really hard.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the healthy people, if you want to be in ministry along, if you want to love your life, you have to do the hard work of getting healthy.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I and there's not a marriage out there.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: If someone's listening and says, Well, we've never had a fight or anything, I think you have you really talked to each other?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, have you shared life?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is hard.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: There are things two people usually opposites attract.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Living together is difficult.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and especially if you're like high functioning, like high, you know, you're gonna high achievers, uh, and you're both that it's a thing, you know.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so and most people listening are exactly that, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or you're opposite personalities, and one of you is overachieving and the other one just starts to rest at home, right?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why do we have to keep doing these ministry things?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, when Sam and I went to counseling, I I think I mentioned that a couple episodes ago.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's a tool that we still talk about today when we have to talk about something, whether we know it's gonna make the other irritated or agitated or even upset.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: We have to sit down face to face, look at each other face to face, and say, okay, I need to talk about something, but I need us to put our emotions over here to the side.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it's making you feel, we need our emotions over here.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: The emotions can't be a part of our conversation.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: We need to really think through the issue together because we're not against each other.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is an issue that we're working on together.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So let's not yell, let's not cry, and that's usually on me.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, just like let's put all our emotions over here to the side.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: It'll come, they'll come back to us.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: But while we're talking about it, and that my friend has been how we can talk about some really, really hard, uncomfortable stuff.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it just really helps.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's hard, it's very, very hard to put your emotions over here and not be instantaneously mad or you know, your first thought, you know, coming out of your mouth or whatever.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um, that tool, uh, that tool really has has helped us and just put that in your tool belt, friends.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and one thing Scott and I learned early on in marriage is well, and I think later it really helped us, but mean what you say and say what you mean.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't, it's hard because you don't know what each other really means or defining it, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Even now in the world, like defining different words, you're like, we totally define it differently.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a rule one to ten, how important is this to you, especially with him taking on extra speaking things?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that started decades ago when the kids were little.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then if he told me eight or nine, I'd be like, Oh, you need to do this.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if he told me five, I would say no, tell them no.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Noah has a something, or Sophie had one of the kids, Caleb or Joe, or someone has something, no, or I just want you home.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, tell them no.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're actually re-bringing up our one to ten with all of his assignments because he says yes to stuff, and I'm like, that's our only weekend home together and to go to church for the month.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you kidding me?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have a one to ten, and if it's like eight or nine, I take it very seriously.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: If he says, Oh, it's a four or five for me, heck no.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me ask you this.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to comparison.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: How what I guess what are your thoughts on how hard has social media uh or how has social media just brought in the comparison game to all of our worlds?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it that's a great question because it just happened this morning in my quiet time.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was, and there's a I have a couple pastors' wives that I'm entering and I love and I check in with them regularly.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just gonna look at their stuff to see how they're doing because travel.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I looked and one of them, their church is killing it, like killing it.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And she had a post a video from Sunday, and it was just so beautiful.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: And her tagline was um, if you want to grow in the Lord, get close to the fire.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it had all just a diverse group of kids, youth, and I mean the place is packed.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, oh my land, she doesn't even realize she's living her best possible life because she's shaping people, like she gets to be a part of watching the spirit do that.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I caught myself wishing, like, I wish we were pastoring again.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I wish I was, but that's not where God's placed me now.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And as much as I love pastoring the local church, I do think first and foremost, you have to be obedient to where God moves you and calls you.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Would I pick the space we're in?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And some of you listening may not even want to pick the church you're at.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is a really hard, awful season, and we're gonna talk about that in another episode.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do when you're in a space you don't like?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think that's the negative for me, Jill, on social media.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: But the positive is the only time I'm not a scroller on social media like Instagram, Facebook, or those things.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I look up certain people, but I truly don't scroll.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: I post and get off because I found it toxic for me and maybe because of comparison.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like people are fighting on there.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I do my go to is Pinterest, and I have boards for everything, and I could waste a lot of time in an airport.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I also the positive is it's really helped me figure out how to, you know what?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I want to grow out my Hair, how do I do that in a way that works for me?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And even I I have a look I want to work on, and not I'm not coveting this, but I'm copying and pasting and creating a board, like, oh yeah, that is, I want that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I feel empowered by it, and it feels great for me, and I feel like it fits me.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's some positive to it too, because I wouldn't even know how to get there if I didn't have something to follow.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, I agree 100%.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to say this.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: I had to realize that uh my social media, Facebook, Instagram, whatever you're those are the two that I'm basically on.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am in control of who I see.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, even whether I accepted you as a friend or whatever, or watching your group or just whatever it is, if by chance I'm scrolling, and I do scroll, I'm not gonna lie, I'm a scroller, I'm a I'm a scroll stalker, just like I'm checking up on everybody, you know, like, oh, that looks great, you know, have fun or whatever.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I keep up with a lot of people's families and events and all that, just all that jazz, like we all do.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it is up to us to unfriend.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: We can make our social media where it does not make us mad.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally will say this: I don't want to be mean to anybody, but I have unfriended about a hundred people in the last five months just because I love them.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're good people, but every time I might not agree with some things they're saying, or I just don't need to see what they're saying because I don't want to go down that path of whatever it is.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm unfriending them.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, it's over a hundred people I have unfriended.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And even on Instagram, sometimes I was like, you know what?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm not gonna follow you right now, I can follow you later.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just can't do this.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So make your social media what you want it to be.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: We are the controllers of that.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's called setting your boundaries.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: You just because you've had you said yes to being their friend or yes to following that group or in that group, you can get out of that group.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you can also not see everything that's gonna be there.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: You don't, you can make it a fun place, a good place.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working on that.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's uh it's not, you know, that means I don't see everybody, even though they're all great people.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I've had those comparison moments, just like you did.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh man, I would why why aren't we pastoring again?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or that would be so awesome to have those situations, you know, and grow with those people and pray with them and just all that kind of stuff.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally have had to unfollow a couple wonderful churches, wonderful people, just because I I can't I can't fight that every time I see that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because you're exactly right.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord has us where he wants us right now.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even the social media part is people leave our churches for a variety of reasons, and then they might be posting about leaving or whatever, and that's not serving you.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Just get off, and you can't control what other people.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I always am telling my kids there's only a very small amount of life you get to control.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: The rest of it you don't.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure you're choosing wiselessly and only battling things you do control and let go of what you can't.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot control feathers about someone gossiping about you or saying mistruths about your church or your husband, or even for me, I'm proud of you if you if social media serves you.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't serve me in any way.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: For some reason, my algorithm got connected with this, probably a hundred people that are, can you believe the church did this or that?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or that's why I left the church a hundred years ago.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, get therapy, like move on.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bad breakup, like go on.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I still say if I mean, hopefully, people listening to this podcast are people that want to have a great ministry, or you're probably not listening to this podcast.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think you have like what you said, it needs to serve you.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is it helping you become a better person?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's not, get rid of it, take it out, turn it off.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I, people that know me well know I turn my phone off for 24 hours once a week.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I try my hardest.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it is really hard.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to be reminded my phone isn't dictating my life.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: I am, it's a tool for me to use, not for me to be a slave to it.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And the same with the social media thing.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, let's let's bring this in for a landing.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what freedom comes when we stop keeping score?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like the whole comparison thing.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so much.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I I know.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I I truly I think I might be living my best season of life at 60 in the sense of not that my skin is sticking to my bones or my hair looks good or any of those, but I am really okay with who I am.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really don't need you to like me.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that I know I'm right where God wants me to be, and I know I'm hearing his voice, and he is enough.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I just am at a good season, but I will tell you, and I want to be honest, it took hard work to get here.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it will, I know I'm in a bad season is coming.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Those of you that are close to me know I'm struggling with eyesight and glaucoma and going blind.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I even when my doctor this last week I had a really bad appointment, and I thought, oh my land, Jill, if I can't see you, how can we have a podcast?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: How can I do all the all the stuff I do for it?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I thought, you know what?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: If God takes that away, that's okay too.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna trust that He is enough.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: My least favorite scripture, I know people love to quote their favorite scripture, but my least favorite is we live by faith, not by sight.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I hate it.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've told my kids at my funeral, go ahead and say my least favorite scripture, because I really love sight.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but this weekend I came to terms with because God's never given me a moment of Debbie, don't worry, I've got your sight.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: He's only told me, Debbie, you're gonna live by faith, not by sight.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I hate that scripture, but I had such peace that Lord, you are enough.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: If the worst happened, I'm gonna trust you even in that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: That everything goes black, but I'm gonna trust you in that.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something so peaceful.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: But Jill, the only way I could get there is to be in the Word every single day and take every thought captive.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because the second I don't, the enemy or the life reminds me, but you're not gonna see baby Frankie.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: What if you don't see your grandkids?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna think you're fun, you're fun.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: What if you can't serve people like a blind lady showing up?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: How what does she do?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I thought, no, I'm enough because I'm right where God wants me.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so that faith piece today is really good.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, by the time this podcast airs, I might be sitting in my bed eating cheesy chips.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but luckily I have friends and family that will come crawl in bed and say, Okay, Deb, put down the cheesy chips and let's get out and keep walking.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: What about you?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, you nailed it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I only think freedom comes uh by the the bath of scripture.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I just for me for sure.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right, it's not like it's been an overnight situation.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a life, it's a it's a journey, it's not a sprint.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is a marathon of a of a of a life that we're trying to achieve with the Holy Spirit.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the only way for me is every day, every day, whether traveling or whatever, for that scripture to drip inside me just to to refresh my soul, to reassure me.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm crying again, sorry.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but it's it's the only way to have freedom.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's the only way to say, okay, like you said, I'm enough.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: I whatever it is, uh, I'm enough.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, God will be with you it in that whatever it is.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so just in closing, even thinking the scripture, when you turn off this podcast, put on your favorite praise music and just let soak in that.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Don't have it, don't try to get anything out of it.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Just let soak in that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then my favorite psalm is Psalm 121.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my least favorite scripture, but let me give you my favorite, Psalm 121.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but just soak in that and just keep doing it until the spirit shows up and you can move forward.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to end on this too.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, as you're turning on your worship song, my favorite in the last month, and you all probably have heard this a million times, but it's the song's name is called Testimony.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I I don't know if I'm saying the lady's name right or the group's name right, but it's Tarion, T-E-R-R-I-A-N, uh, is the group.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: So uh testimony by Tarion.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just telling you, when it gets to I am a living, breathing, walking testimony, it's I can't yeah, and it and it's for everyone listening because you are you are a you are a breathing, living, walking testimony, and uh forget the comparison, you are enough.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and we're gonna end on that because you are enough.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And if Joe sends me the link, I will put that in the show notes so that you can go and listen to that song at the end of this podcast.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to remind you, you are enough.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And living beside the call and creating a life you love is work.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: So don't settle for the easy, really shallow life that's gonna leave you comparing and feeling insecure.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do the work and allow yourself to get to the space and place where you know I am enough because he is enough.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Friends, thank you for joining us on this episode of Beside Every Calling, where a life you love is formed beside the call and not lost within it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you'll join us again next week.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: But right now, if this episode has helped you in any way, will you hit pause on us and then share it with that girlfriend or friend that you're like, they need to hear this too?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: We would really feel honored that you shared it because our goal is to help as many ministry spouses out there as we can.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: So again, thanks for listening to this episode.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation felt a little too familiar, like, were they sitting in my living room this week familiar?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's your sign.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Text this episode to one ministry spouse who might need it today.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if this space feels like oxygen in your season, would you please take 30 seconds and leave us a review?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It helps more spouses find this beautiful, sometimes overlooked, but wildly important community.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time on Beside Every Calling.