Latest / The Marketing Brief / Patrick & Brian Discuss an Artist’s Outside View on Trends and How Retail Has Evolved (S1 E17)
Transcript
- Brian Aucoin: and welcome back to the Marketing Brief. ⁓ I your host Brian Acquand. And this is the podcast where we briefly touched on topics across the marketing landscape. As always, we're joined by an industry expert. In this case, we're joined by an actual artist, Patrick. Patrick Cupid, welcome into the podcast. PATRICK CUPID: Thank you, Brian. Thank you for having me. Hello, everyone. Brian Aucoin: Thank you. I'd love to have you introduce yourself because you are an artist, you are a designer, you are a brand. How would you introduce yourself and what you do? PATRICK CUPID: Well, first, I'm Patrick Cupid. I'm a New York based designer and creative. I've done consulting for other brands and mentoring. I'm also a professor of fashion design at the Fashion Institute of Technology. And I sit on the advisory board at Marist University in their fashion design department. wow, my myriad of experience in. around fashion industry and the garment ⁓ all sides, from photography to product development, ⁓ clearly designed with my own eponymous brand ⁓ the last seven years, and become a member of the CFDA. And graciously, ⁓ know, ⁓ recognition accolades across the pond. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, very impressive. Well, we're excited to have you here for this discussion. I love talking to artists. I would love to ⁓ start I guess, like I'm very interested in consumer trends, consumer insights, ⁓ in of marketing. ⁓ I'm that's something you follow too. How do you navigate following trends, knowing what trends are, and then charting your own path within that? PATRICK CUPID: I think it's really sort of being the outsider. When you're a designer, you're tasked with being the trendsetter. And that means having sort of a sixth sense or an intuition to look at what's or forecast what's coming, you know, to have like your thumb on the pulse and to know what's happening. It isn't necessarily about fashion in itself. Like I think people mistake the idea of fashion design as being ⁓ and ever about the clothing or this great idea for a dress, a great idea for a hat. But those ideas are taken from society. So could be anthropological research. It could be economic research, can be political research, it could be historical research, archaeological. There are many different factors that go into it. And I think that people either over or they forget even in the realm of fashion itself. When I explain it to people, ⁓ I about them when I teach and I have the conversations with my students, especially when I mentor with Bance and NYC. And I explain that understanding Ecology, the ecosystem is important. Understanding the environment is important. Understanding politics and being involved is important. Understanding social dynamics and anthropology, ⁓ cultural history, like all of those things matter because it determines or it doesn't just feed the inspiration to the ideas for what you're going to design and where society is going, what society is going to be looking for or what they need, but it also Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. PATRICK CUPID: going to give you information on how they're going to react to it, right? Because there are certain cultural nuances that you have to take into account that don't apply in certain places. So that's one part of it. But there's also the psychological part. What are their interests? What are they paying attention to right are people at emotionally, know, what are they feeling? That could be the music that's happening, like who's the most popular artist right now and what are they speaking to and what are they singing about? That's political, that's religious, that's holiday related, you know, based on time of the season you're designing into, what... travel destinations are trending right now. Are people going to Phuket? Are they going to San Jose? Are they going to Santorini? Like, what is the current mode in society and what are we paying attention to? plays into that, know, social media. even ⁓ recall my started the brand officially in 2019 was the first launch and accidentally, not really, wasn't an accident, but I decided, you know, decided to Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. PATRICK CUPID: create a print for a blouse. And you know, it hit and people really, really liked the print. And I was like, okay, and in truth, I'm not a print person. I barely wear it myself. It's probably one of the reasons why I'm very good at it because I'm looking at it with an outside perspective. Brian Aucoin: outside. PATRICK CUPID: then the pandemic hits and all doing this, we're on Zoom, know, podcasts are growing, people are doing conference calls online, people are at home. So they're not doing the full suit, they're not going to work, but an interesting blouse, an interesting top, you know, and what I had very bright and colorful and poppish in print. So it gives a person a way to stand out, you know, in this area where they're really personality of that human interaction gets taken away, right? And so even that became something to consider, ⁓ like what do I have versus what the current is versus what's going on and what people need and then how do I fill that need? Brian Aucoin: Yeah, if you had designed a pair of pants, we might have never seen it. PATRICK CUPID: Right. Exactly. They would have been great ads, but no one would know. ⁓ Brian Aucoin: Yeah You only saw the top half. We talked a little bit about how retail is changing. I would love to get your thoughts on how you think the retail experience is changing, because that's something I write a lot about from a consumer point of view and how do brands build an experience for consumers as they come into their shop. But how are you seeing retail change in your world? PATRICK CUPID: It's actually, it's been a very slow, gradual change over time. I think people make the mistake that it accelerated during the pandemic. Like it definitely did. Like that changed a lot. And even with the current political situation, like it's forcing a lot more change, know, evolution, evolution. But it's been happening over a while. And in the conversation that we had off camera little earlier, we talked about like the term artisanal. Brian Aucoin: Okay. Yeah. PATRICK CUPID: what we've been seeing ⁓ the advent of social media ⁓ people working and sort of bringing you into their world, the makers and the creators, the people, the artists, the painters, the designers, the knitters, have been bringing people into their homes, into their world behind the scenes. We have this new ⁓ acronym, right? ⁓ And way of inviting people into the process and making people feel a part of it. And so people... Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. PATRICK CUPID: develop this sentimentality. They develop not just a respect, but a deeper connection. And for any brand, doesn't matter whether you're selling cars or ⁓ or coffee, whatever it is, your aim is to always afford to build that relationship with the consumer. And so we've been seeing that happen in this new way that didn't exist before. On top of that, we've seen the explosion of big brands, know, like, you know, the major being everywhere. They're in every department store, the same five to 10 brands, whether you're in Larno Shente in Italy, whether you're at the Biden Corp in Amsterdam, or whether you're here at Saks or Bloomingdale's in New York, you know, it's the same bevy of brands that are going on. More power to them. However, the market is inundated, right? You know, and you have those brands that are within these department stores, you come right outside, and the flagship retailer for that same brand is right across the street. And then they're downtown in the next shopping center. And then they're in the mall as well. And then the next shopping center. I think, know, we all went to school, you know, high school, and we all had the thing of wanting something different, right? Of wanting to feel unique, of wanting to feel special. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. PATRICK CUPID: you know, of wanting, you know, when you got that one thing that nobody else had and it was like really, really yours and you had ownership of it and how great that felt. We might've quieted that, but inside that, I think that still is innate within all of us. Like we all still have that. And so when you have that something special or that's just for you, and I think that's what this bringing people into the fall plays into. And I think that's what retail has forgotten. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. PATRICK CUPID: is like to be, you know, and they've sort of instead of making more of a connection or building and forging that relationship, they've alienated the consumer by being too accessible. I actually just watched a short Instagram about burberry and how they went from the plaid being this symbol of luxury and status, you know, when the brand originated until, you know, it became popularized and then it was everywhere on everything, the baseball cap, the t-shirt, the umbrella. the belt, the luggage, the suitcase. And though the brand was selling, because everyone was buying into it because now everyone could afford it, they lost their consumer. They were losing their consumer heart. Don't worry because when everything is mass, mass follows trend. And when something, the bell curve tips down, mass no it. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, great example. Yeah. Yeah, and they all leave. Yeah. PATRICK CUPID: But when it's scarce, when it's a symbol, when there's a sentiment, when there's a connection to it, when it means something, Savile Row has remained Savile Row. That's never going anywhere because it's a place for you to go and get your suits made. And you might have that jacket from your great-grandfather that you'll go in and have retooled and refit to you. But we're also seeing that in retail as well. One of the other things you talked about is I went recently to suit supply with a friend. They're applying that same model. They have where you can shop off the rack at an average price point between $1 to $1,200 or $1,300. Or you can have a suit made, a bespoke suit made for you. And that is, again, picking up on that idea of, OK, not just the customer service and the experience within the space. It gets beautiful. It's plush. The sofa is you sit down and you wait. You get catered to. They bring the suit to you. And then they're working with you on the fit. and really engaging the consumer in the process. You're not just going in and picking out a suit on the rack and then walking into the fitting room by yourself with all of your fears and insecurities about the way that you look because marketing has told you that you're too tall or you're too fat or you're too thin or whatever it is. And not really have, so they're there with you the whole way. And that gives Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. PATRICK CUPID: the consumer the confidence, it gives them that boost to feel good. And then they're learning about cut and fabric and material and fit. So they also walk away with an education. same way that we've been seeing in these how and behind the scenes videos in social media, whether it's TikTok or Instagram or whatever platforms these people are on. And so it's that tells that we're heading in this, you know, very niche, you know, people into an artisanal direction. This is what they want. They want to be a part of it. They want to be a process. They want to have ownership. You know, they want to feel like something belongs to them or that it's special in some way. ⁓ talked about gentrification, bringing that into neighborhoods, you know, like in Brooklyn and Harlem and areas of the Bronx and now Long Island City, rural areas where, you know, When that comes in, it's the artists, it's the small makers that are the first really to come in and they open up the new coffee shop or it's like the new shop with small home goods that they're making or from local pottery class and those things. And why they thrive is because of that specialness. You go in, you meet the owner, they talk to you, you have a conversation. It has its own unique. eclectic style within the space that sort of only exists in that neighborhood because it's not a chain of coffee shops or it's not a chain of bakeries. It's just this one where you're going to get that scone and you're going to get that scone, but you're going to get the scone with the conversation about the dog and the cat and know who went where and you know as you sit on your laptop and other people come in. In my own experience, I've had that at my showroom on 35th Street in the Garment District where Brian Aucoin: now. PATRICK CUPID: clients would come in. And once it wasn't just being in the showroom to come and look at the clothing, but once I walked them into the atelier where they saw the cutting table and the sewing machines and the fabric and the mood board on the wall. For them, I, in my mind, I equated to them walking into, you know, atelier, Dior's atelier, you know, in 1950 and meeting Mr. Dior and having dress made and you know, all of these seamstresses and their white coats running around for them. And for a lot of people at a certain pricing, that's the closest they're going to get to it. And that's an experience that in regular retail, you're just you're not going to get like it's there, you're sort of removed and separated from it. So how I think retail is trying to solve the problem of how do we do that? How do we bring the consumer Brian Aucoin: Right. PATRICK CUPID: you know, and lock them in and forge and build that relationship alienating. But that also means that, you have to be really dedicated to your category, know, so price point quality, who your consumer is, it becomes very special. It becomes understanding that, okay, well, this brand, you know, again, case in point, Burberry's example, yeah, we're not for everyone. So us being for everyone was not the right move, like, and so stop doing that and we need to start taking care of the people that, know, we're made for and that we're here and that's fine. Like there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I retail needs to take ownership of that, you know, and come away from labeling everything from t-shirt, you know, at that ⁓ mass market, know, as luxury because it's not, you know, luxury is scarcity. Luxury is that thing that you Brian Aucoin: Yeah. PATRICK CUPID: honestly don't really need, but you want and you can, so you do. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yeah, I love, you know, I think part of it is, is consumers seeking a narrative, right? They want to be part of that story or at least understand that story. And then I think the larger part is this like seeking community. And I think that's where a lot of people are, not just consumers, people are right now ⁓ trying to seek community, who are my people? And one way into that is like, try and find the things that I like. PATRICK CUPID: Right. Brian Aucoin: because then I will find other people that like that and they're probably like me too. And one of the things I talk to brands about is like being a platform, right? Being a platform for like-minded people join community, right? ⁓ as you're describing that, I'm thinking about the journey for community for consumers as well. Does that resonate? PATRICK CUPID: It does. And in many different ways, actually, which it's it's it's I'm going to say profound because I've seen it where I've met with buyers in my space and the buyers because the market is so inundated with product, they don't even know where to go half the time, you know, and the Market after market after market. you know. And so for these smaller retailers, and for the brands themselves, it's like, we find the trouble of like, well, how do we get to the buyers? Because, you know, if I go in, I'm too early. If I go to Paris and market, Brian Aucoin: Yeah. PATRICK CUPID: late. They've already spent out their budget because they were here in January and then they just went to New York. And it's utterly ridiculously expensive for the buyer. you know, especially if you're running your own retail space in your shop and it is a risk for them you don't know if the product is going to carry even if you might like it. So where do you go? Who do you buy? Who do you see? In New York alone, during market week, there are at least a good 20 to 30 trade shows to pop into at every level. And a lot of them, because everyone is trying to be safe, are within two to three degrees of separation in product and product sharing. ⁓ So no one. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. PATRICK CUPID: standing out and being special because they're afraid of like, okay, well, you know, if they're coming for this and maybe I should just fit into that mold. And so I've heard from retailers that they don't even go out. So they'll go and they'll do the walk if they see something, but nine times out of 10, they shop other retailers that are similar or that they like, and literally buy what that retailer is carrying. And so they seek out those brands to carry into their own shops. So all of this is sort of balled up to ⁓ where I'm leading to. It's just about that. So consumer is looking for something different and something special and something of quality. There are people that are creating and making it, but they can't reach the consumer because it's a problem of visibility or space, you know, even scarcely. Yeah, you know, and so what I've been doing and working on ⁓ is creating that space, you know, looking into all of these gray areas and to solve these problems, just for the consumer. but for the creators, whether you're an artist, a fine artist, a painter, or you're doing small home goods, a clothing designer like myself, or accessories, or if there are small cosmetics, fragrances, and things, and to bring them under one roof, and in one space called The Gray, and to help build and foster that community between the consumer, helping them to reach other buyers and other markets and other retailers, because now they have a space where they come and see them at one meet with them and get to know them and talk to them, but also giving them access to what we have here in New York, like the New York Garment Center for development, New York really for anything, developing anything is second to none. But our garment district is phenomenal. I mean, we have factories and suppliers, we have fabric suppliers that have wholesale goods. thousands of yards in colors of silk just sitting on shelves, you know, and this is not going to a retailer or to, you know, not knocking Joanne's, Joanne's is great for anybody. But when you're doing wholesaling, you're making product, you need to be able to go to the source and the source is here. And there's multiple sources to choose from. And again, they're small businesses that need new consumers that need new clients and they're looking for people, you know, but Brian Aucoin: Yeah PATRICK CUPID: Sometimes the designers, they don't know how to find them because where do I begin? it's those that matter. And I think that is retail's future with technology and with AI integrated into in very specific ways as it gets figured out. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. PATRICK CUPID: but it's still going to have to be that human interaction, but just on a much more specialized, much more targeted and artisanally niche, yeah, direction. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. And as a marketer, is like what we want, right? We want to be able to tell that story. So the more information that's available to tell that story, you know, sometimes you're just, it's a product and that's what it is. And we don't know how it got here. And it's just cost this much, right? But consumers are so interested in that story. Certainly with something that they're wearing and now it's a story that they can tell when they're out there. So Really love what you're doing here with Grey Boutique. should spell it for everybody so they know it's G-R-E-I-H, correct? Awesome. And is there physical space in New York that you have? PATRICK CUPID: ...prat. So we're still building it out. So we're going to be in the garment district on 37th Street. It's a goal. The doors open by the fall. And then looking to bring in designers and creative. So if you're a designer or creative, whether you're a painter, you're making throw pillows, you're knitting scarves, or you're making beautiful ceramics or fragrances or scented candles, look us up because we're looking for all of it. Brian Aucoin: That's great. That's awesome. And people can find you on your website, PatrickCupid.com. Is that the best way to get in touch with you? PATRICK CUPID: Yes, or on social like Instagram is probably also easy as well too. Yeah. ⁓ Brian Aucoin: Nice. Well, I really loved having you as a guest. I love having speaking to artists because I'm so interested in the psychological parts of marketing and I love how artists view things. So thank you for being our guest today, Patrick. PATRICK CUPID: thank you for having me, Brian. Like was fun. Like on conversation and ⁓ prior so I've enjoyed it. Thank you. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, I want to take some of your courses. teach at FIT and at Marist? PATRICK CUPID: Yeah, so at Marist, I'm on the advisory board. So I work with the faculty and the administrative side and sort of helping them move the program forward and get the program out. come up with innovative ways for them to reach the market and really let people know that the fashion program is there at the school. Brian Aucoin: you so much being a part of this conversation. This has been a brief marketing conversation as part of the marketing brief podcast. I am your host Brian Acquan and stay curious everybody. PATRICK CUPID: Yeah.