Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Woman home alone stabbed, sex assaulted, left in bathtub of water. Who murdered Socialite Kay Thomasson?

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Woman home alone stabbed, sex assaulted, left in bathtub of water. Who murdered Socialite Kay Thomasson? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace answers. Blood all over the
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: places like our post What happened to Kay Thomason? What
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: happened to Kate Thomason? The question still lingers. Months have
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: passed and the case remains unsolved. Brutally murdered in our
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  Speaker 1: own home. I visited the crime scene and from the
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  Speaker 1: outside looking in, it looks like a post card. A
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  Speaker 1: beautiful two storied home with the giant lighting fixture hanging
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  Speaker 1: down in the middle, A perfectly kept front and backyard,
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  Speaker 1: beautiful furnishings in the home. In the back you see
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  Speaker 1: dish for the pet, the family pet. Everything's perfect except
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  Speaker 1: for the dead body. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. With me an all
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  Speaker 1: star panel. Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now renowned defense attorney
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  Speaker 1: in the Atlanta jurisdiction, well known medical examiner for the
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  Speaker 1: State of Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher joining me. Laura Petler,
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  Speaker 1: crime scene analyst, and PI private investigator. Right now to
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  Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter John Limley. Start at
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  Speaker 1: the beginning. Nancy Kate Thomason had lived in the Derby
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  Speaker 1: Hills subdivision since before Sandy Springs was even a city
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  Speaker 1: up until two thousand and five. Two thousand and six,
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  Speaker 1: the community was just an unincorporated part of Atlanta's Fulton County.
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  Speaker 1: Kay's house sits up on a ridge overlooking a cul
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  Speaker 1: de sac. It's at the very end of a long
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  Speaker 1: wooded street named Old Woodbine Road. Derby Hills is in
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  Speaker 1: an upscale, older neighborhood, one that's highly sought after, especially
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  Speaker 1: by young families. It's a beautiful area, but it's also
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  Speaker 1: surrounded by some really great schools. Kay lived alone, not
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  Speaker 1: just in the house, but in the city. For the
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  Speaker 1: most part. She did have some family members, but her
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  Speaker 1: children and her ex husband lived out of town. Living alone, though,
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  Speaker 1: was not something that seemed to bother Kay one bit.
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  Speaker 1: For one thing, she was constantly busy with lots of
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  Speaker 1: volunteer work. She worked in her garden. In fact, it
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  Speaker 1: was one of those family members in town that became
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  Speaker 1: concerned when they heard that Kay had not made it
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  Speaker 1: to an appointment that day. This is June twenty seventh.
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  Speaker 1: Kay was one of those people, one of those dependable
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  Speaker 1: people that never missed an event, a meeting, an appointment,
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  Speaker 1: anything that was on her calendar. Take a listen to
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  Speaker 1: our friend Joe Hinky at eleven Alive. A relative came
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  Speaker 1: to check on Kay Thomason yesterday evening after she missed
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  Speaker 1: an appointment, and that's when she was found dead inside
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  Speaker 1: of her home on the top of this hill. This afternoon,
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  Speaker 1: nearly twenty four hours after the investigation began, Sandy Springs
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  Speaker 1: police could be seen removing evidence from the scene of
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  Speaker 1: the homicide. Seventy one year old Kay Thomason was killed
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  Speaker 1: inside her home. We're looking into phone records, we're talking
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  Speaker 1: to neighbors, and we're talking to family members as well.
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  Speaker 1: Sergeant Samuel Warsham with the Sandy Springs Police Department said
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  Speaker 1: a relative found Thomason around seven Wednesday night, and the
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  Speaker 1: medical examiner is still determining how she died. Her family
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  Speaker 1: told police Thomason's black twenty twelve Kia Sorrento with Georgia
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  Speaker 1: take Wu one one six two was missing when they
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  Speaker 1: found her. Is that the key to Kay's murder in
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  Speaker 1: her own home in a very very quiet Upskill neighborhood,
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  Speaker 1: nobody heard a thing articulosten to Sergeant sam Worsham, the
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  Speaker 1: PIO at Sandy Springs PD. Around seven pm last night,
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  Speaker 1: we were notified of a homicide here on Old Woodbine Road.
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  Speaker 1: Our officers responded to the location. They were able to
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  Speaker 1: locate the victim, Miss kay Thomason, and her home. At
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  Speaker 1: this time, we are looking for her vehicle. It's missing
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  Speaker 1: from the location. It's a two thousand and twelve Kia Sorrento.
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  Speaker 1: It's black in color and has Georgia tag p WU
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  Speaker 1: one one six two. If anyone has any information about
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  Speaker 1: the location of this vehicle, please call Sandy Springs Police,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: where you can call crimes offers as well. Right now,
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  Speaker 1: we are offering a ten thousand dollars reward for the
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  Speaker 1: arrest and conviction of anyone involved in this crime. If
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: anyone has information, please call Sandy Springs Police immediately. Who
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  Speaker 1: notified the police department? A family member The victim miss
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  Speaker 1: an appointment. A family member came to check and located
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  Speaker 1: the victim at their home and she called novel. How
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  Speaker 1: long had she been laying there? What effect will that
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  Speaker 1: have on her autopsy? Straight out to Medicalsamera for the
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: State of Florida, Doctor Tim Gallagher. Doctor Gallagher, it's a
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  Speaker 1: real honor to have you with us when ours tick by.
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  Speaker 1: How does that affect the accuracy of the autopsy and
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  Speaker 1: the ability to determine cod cause of death. The time
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  Speaker 1: that passes by does affect some of the evidence that
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  Speaker 1: you may be able to collect from the body. For instance,
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  Speaker 1: DNA evidence will start to degrade, trace evidence will start
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  Speaker 1: to disappear here and by start to become lost. But
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: actually finding the cause of death during the autopsy isn't
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  Speaker 1: really affected by time as much as people would like
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  Speaker 1: to think. A stab wounds will always be their bullet
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  Speaker 1: wounds will always be there, and they could be bound
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  Speaker 1: within the bone and within the tissue that is last
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  Speaker 1: to decompose. You know, I'm thinking about this woman, Kay Thomason,
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  Speaker 1: and if you could just see how perfectly she kept
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: her home. Now, one thing I noticed when I was
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: looking at the crime scene was that you go up,
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  Speaker 1: as John Lumley with Crime Online was reporting, a very
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  Speaker 1: gradual slope up to her home. The driveway to the
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  Speaker 1: home is on the right, and between you've got the
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  Speaker 1: home to the right, the driveway, then an expanse of lawn.
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  Speaker 1: Then you have a not ramshackle, but an old wooden fence.
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  Speaker 1: It's about uh five to six feet tall, and it's
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  Speaker 1: overgrown with foliage. On the other side of that fence
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  Speaker 1: woods forest. Then after you go down through the forest,
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  Speaker 1: through the woods, you come out on a very very
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  Speaker 1: busy street, Peachtree Dunwoodie Road. And the reason it's so
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  Speaker 1: busy is that on one end you have the biggest
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  Speaker 1: shopping centers and the most expensive shopping malls in the
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  Speaker 1: state of Georgia, Linux and Phipps, and a lot of
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  Speaker 1: high end restaurants. And then to the right you go
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  Speaker 1: over hill and there are some of the most prestigious
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  Speaker 1: hospitals in the state of Georgia. You've got Scottish Right
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  Speaker 1: Children's Hospital, North Side Hospital, Saint Joseph's Hospital. So that
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  Speaker 1: particular run of street is highly traveled. Anybody that knew
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  Speaker 1: to go through those woods and get to that fence
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  Speaker 1: could get straight in her home, and her home was
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  Speaker 1: the first house you get to to Daryl Cohen, a
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: former prosecutor turned defense attorney. Darryl As a prosecutor, you
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  Speaker 1: and I worked in the same office. You know every
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: inch of Fulton County like the back of your hand,
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  Speaker 1: because when you are looking at everywhere I go. The
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  Speaker 1: children now say it. They go, oh, I bet you
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  Speaker 1: prosecuted a murderer in here. They go, Yes, I did
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: you know? It could be mansions, It could be a
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  Speaker 1: crack house, It could be a regular tree lined neighborhood.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: It could be an apartment complex. If you're a prosecutor,
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  Speaker 1: you've been there, because you go to the crime scene,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: you look at it yourself to analyze it before trial.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm sure you know exactly where this is. It's
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  Speaker 1: a very expensive enclave going down Peachtree Dunwoodie toward the hospitals,
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  Speaker 1: just around the Windsor Parkway intersection. You know what I'm
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  Speaker 1: talking about. That ain't shabby, Daryl, No, I know exactly
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  Speaker 1: what you're talking about. In the typical residential neighborhood that
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  Speaker 1: this sort of crime does not happen, but unfortunately it did,
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  Speaker 1: and it's something very close to the hospital, as you mentioned.
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  Speaker 1: We call them pill Hill because of all of the
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  Speaker 1: hospitals that they're there and the very high red neighborhood
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  Speaker 1: for people just don't see this sort of crime happen,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: never happens, but that it did. Crime Stories with Nancy
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Grace this morning, we have a brief update on the
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  Speaker 1: investigation into the homicide that occurred on wid Buying Road
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  Speaker 1: a little over a week ago here in Sandy Springs.
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  Speaker 1: We also have some information that the family would like
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  Speaker 1: to share this morning with the public. So this morning,
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  Speaker 1: the Sandy Springs Police Department would like to announce that
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  Speaker 1: the reward in this case is now at one hundred
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  Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and we hope that that one hundred thousand
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  Speaker 1: dollars reward will give us a little more interest in
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  Speaker 1: the case and provide someone with some more incentive to
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  Speaker 1: give more leads all this case for investigators to follow up.
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  Speaker 1: Good morning. My name is Keith Sigon Simon. Still the
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  Speaker 1: case remains unsolved. Let's take a listen to that nine
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  Speaker 1: one one call one more time. You think carriers blood
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  Speaker 1: all over the places like our presure bulking the post.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: You're hearing the nine one one call and earlier Sinday
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  Speaker 1: Springs Deputy Chief of Police Keith signs the reward now
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  Speaker 1: raised to one hundred thousand dollars, but still no takers.
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  Speaker 1: To Laura Petlar, crime scene analyst and private eye, Laura,
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  Speaker 1: that's very unusual for a he wore to climb to
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars and no takers. It is Nancy.
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  Speaker 1: The situation with this particular cases that the offender is
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  Speaker 1: going to be a person who could possibly brag about
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  Speaker 1: this type of an offense. But he also if he's
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  Speaker 1: more on the anger side of the house of these
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  Speaker 1: kind of murders, he won't brag about it, and therefore
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  Speaker 1: he's keeping his secret and he's not telling people what
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  Speaker 1: he did, and therefore, you know, it could be a
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  Speaker 1: smaller pool of people who would come forward. The other
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  Speaker 1: issue is is that a lot of times these type
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  Speaker 1: offenders have a tremendous amount of domestic violence and assault
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  Speaker 1: against women history and their past. And if that's the case,
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  Speaker 1: he could be scaring other women with this horror story,
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  Speaker 1: and if that's what's happening, they're not going to come
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  Speaker 1: forward and to tell what they know about him. To
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  Speaker 1: tell themly climb online dot com investigative reporter, tell me
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  Speaker 1: about the actual murder. What happened to Kay. A lot
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  Speaker 1: of what we have learned and investigators have learned, begins
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  Speaker 1: with this eerie surveillance video. It was a few hours
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  Speaker 1: into the recording from the hours before her body was
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  Speaker 1: discovered by her family members. Investigators had sat there and
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  Speaker 1: combed through the video, and they were beginning to think
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  Speaker 1: they weren't going to see anything. Then with a time
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  Speaker 1: stamp in the early wee hours of the morning, they
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  Speaker 1: begin to see a little flutter. Over to the left
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  Speaker 1: side of the driveway. There's a camera of Kay's surveillance
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  Speaker 1: system pointed down that long driveway, and over to the left,
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  Speaker 1: in the shadow of a tree, you can begin to
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  Speaker 1: see a little bit of a flutter. And then wait, wait, wait, wait,
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  Speaker 1: John Lennie Hall, do let me understand this. Where is
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: a surveillance camera on the home? I think I recalled
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  Speaker 1: saying it is? It is actually right on the front
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  Speaker 1: of the house, pointed down the driveway. So when you're
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: on the street looking at the house, is it on
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  Speaker 1: the left or the right? It's really slightly to the right,
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  Speaker 1: but really right dead center in the home. Okay, so
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  Speaker 1: as it is looking now, we're let's pretend on the
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  Speaker 1: front steps of the home. Okay, we're no longer looking
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  Speaker 1: at the home. We're on the front steps looking out
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  Speaker 1: away from the home. The man comes from where as
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  Speaker 1: you're looking down that driveway, he comes from the left
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  Speaker 1: side of the driveway, out of the woods, straight out
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  Speaker 1: of those woods where that fence is, and I looked
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  Speaker 1: for a gate in the fence, but there is a
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  Speaker 1: break in the fence where any you could step through
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: if you wanted to. It's not but you could do it.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: So that's where the purp comes from. Hmm. Interesting, Let
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: me moull on that. Go ahead, Tom, Sure, As I said,
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  Speaker 1: you see that flutter over in the shadow of a tree,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and probably on purpose, trying to find a shadow, and
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  Speaker 1: then slowly emerges and begins really for lack of a
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: better word, creeping up the driveway medium to a little
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  Speaker 1: bit on the tall side height something holding something in
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: his hands. It's a what appears to be a man,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: and the video catches him for just I would say,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: maybe seven or eight seconds before he goes out of
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  Speaker 1: the camera range. And that's the end of any video
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  Speaker 1: that even shows him. Even though there is a camera
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  Speaker 1: on the back of the house, it never picks him up.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, current defense attorney in the Atlanta area.
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  Speaker 1: Why is it that I can see a rock a rock,
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  Speaker 1: a rock I can hold in my hand on the moon,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: but I can't make this guy's face out much less
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: what he's holding in his hand. I'm so irritated. I mean, target,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. Have you seen how clear their surveillance
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: video is. I mean it's awesome. I'll never forget watching
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Top Mom Casey Anthony as she was using a forged
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: check to buy Beard a push up bras for Pete's
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: sake while her daughter was missing. I mean, I can
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: make out every tooth in her mouth, every bleached white
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  Speaker 1: tooth she's got. So I don't get it, Daryl. Not
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: only is this surveillance let me just say crap, but
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: at least I've got something. I got something. I got
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  Speaker 1: A man coming from those woods up into her home.
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  Speaker 1: Can't make out his face, can't make out what he's carrying.
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  Speaker 1: Why is that? Darryl? Well, it seems to me that
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: these surveillance cameras that he had were of low quality.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: They were not commercial quality. They will probably sold to
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: her some time ago by a company that said you
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: will now have surveillance cameras. Well. That's great that she
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: has a surveillance camera, but it has to show detail,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: it has to show more than what it showed it.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: This is typical of sometimes we pay for something and
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: we get less. All right, fine, blame the victim back
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to you, John Limley. You know, I like what you
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: told me because you teld me about the surveillance video
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: and the image and the man where he came from.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: That's all relevant, but objection unresponsive to the question I
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: ask you about the murder. How was she killed? Was
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: she strangled? Was she hit with the firepok? Was she raped?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Was anything stolen? Helped me out, lemly sure? She was
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: actually stabbed in the back of the neck. She had
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: been tied up. She had been beaten and whoa, whoa,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, I didn't know she was tied up. Yes,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: oh oh, so she struggled and he had to subdue her.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: She's tied up, you said, stabbed in the back of neck?
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  Speaker 1: What else? She had been beaten and had been left
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: in a tub filled with water. It was a horrific scene.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Was she clothed? She was clothed in a tub full
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of water, beaten, stabbed in the back of the neck
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  Speaker 1: and left in a tub of water. Okay, I had
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: to think that through. I have dedicated my life to
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: crime victims, to giving a voice to those who can
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: no longer speak for themselves elves, and that is why
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I work with Oxygen to create a nie show. Injustice
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, we investigate cases that I believe never
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: got it right, from wrongly accused to botched investigations, to
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: unclear motives to unjust sentences. I don't just cover cases,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I solve them. I put my heart and soul in it.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Dig deep, look at the background, at the crime scene,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: at the families, at the witnesses. I look at every
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: tiny detail because what matters to me is justice. Join
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: us in our search for the truth. Injustice with Nancy
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Grace watch now on demand and every Saturday at six
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: five Central only on Oxygen, the True Network for crime,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Kay Thomason brutally murdered in
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: her own home. Months have passed and the case remains unsolved.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: What happened to Kate Thomason? Doctor Tim Gallagher is with me,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Thank goodness, the medical examiner for the State of Florida.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's got so many accolades behind his name
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: would run out of time. Sorry, Gallagher, but I got
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: to talk about Kay Thomason right now, and not all
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: of your many many accomplishments up, doctor Gallagher. Wow, he
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: killed her tried to kill her three times, over killed
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: her twice, over stabbed her in the back of the neck,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: beat her, and apparently I was trying to drown her
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: at the same time. Okay, what I don't even know
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: where to start, doctor Gallagher. Oh, how the medical examiners?
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Had you seen me pull up in my beat up Ponda?
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Because I would have to go through every single line
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: of the autopsy report. Mostly that's your fault because you
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: speak in medical ease that nobody understands except another doctor
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: or maybe a scientist. But talk to me in regular people,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: talk about what you're learning. What does this mean to
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: you in your medical examiner's mind. Well, there's a couple
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: of things that come out to mind. A number one,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: you're right, I mean he did try to kill in
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: several different types of ways, which kind of tells me
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: he may have been a disorganized a disorganized mindset, meaning
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: this crime may have been just a crime of opportunity.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait a minute,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you're throwing a detective term. Mummy. There are and I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: learned this from serial killers. There's organized killers and there's
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: disorganized killers. We're not just saying they're messy Okay, that
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: is actually a term applied to killers. When you say
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: he was a disorganized killer, that is very significant, explained
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher. You're right, there are two types of There
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: are several types of killers. One as an organized killer.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: He's the type of person who plans every facet of
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the crime right up until the crime is committed. They
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: often make long list of things that they need to
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: do before the crime, and create a shopping list of
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: things to buy before the crime, and even after the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: crime how to dispose of the body. So their mind
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: goes from step one to step two to step three
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: in a very organized fashion. A disorganized a type killer
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: does not have that faculty about them, does not have
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that mindset, and we'll kind of do things ad hoc
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: or as needed during the commission of the crime. Wow.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I like the way you said that, Gallagher. So you're
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: not just skin and bones. You are very well versed
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: in the art of crime. In criminology, a disorganized offender
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  Speaker 1: is actually a classification. The distinction between organized and disorganized
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  Speaker 1: was first drawn by a renowned American criminologist, Roy Hazelwood.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: The disorganized offender has been stereotyped as low average or
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: below at low average intelligence. Now I disagree with Hazelwood
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: on that because I think anyone, even of high intellect,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: can kill without a real, organized, anal obsessive plan. Laura Petler,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: you're the crime scene analyst, weigh in on that. Oh,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: you're right, Nancy. From the standpoint of forensic criminology, there
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: are dichotomies, There are different types of killers. But however,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: as a forendic criminologist, what we like to stay away
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: from is really categorizing a crime scene as one or
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the other, because most of the time we see a
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: mixed level of organization, as we do here. This appears
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: to be very targeted. It appears to be very purposeful
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: and planned. It's possible that the weapon was brought to
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: the scene by the offender and potentially carried away by
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: the offender. In that I mean it looked to me
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: like a sack that he was carrying, and the doorknob
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: is missing from the crime scene. The body's also in water.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: He used the pummeling, which we often see in power
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: based offenders to subdue the victim. And you know, the
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: stab wound is the cause of death. And so for me,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: as a friensic criminologist. It's more about what was the
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: purpose of this crime. The purpose of the crime was
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: potentially sexual assault and robbery, and in order for him
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: to do that, he planned to at least go over there,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: like you said, and I think you're exactly right. You know,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: going through those woods was the perfect opportunity for cover.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: And then once he gets in there, he had to
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: subdue her somehow. They reported that the crime scene was
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: very violent, that she struggled, she fought back, she fought
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: for her life, and that she was possibly sexually assaulted.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: But the scene is the reflection of his personality, and
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: his personality is showing us that he's angry. He wants
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to be in control, he wants power over the victim.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: And then he knows something about CSI, you know, the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: greatest CSI effect and how this all plays a role
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: in court, and he puts her in the bathtub to
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: try to destroy any evidence. No, I was just coming
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: to you on that, doctor Tim Gallagher. Doctor Gallagher, I
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: was suspicious. Did he put her in the tub to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: try to drown her, make sure she was dead? Did
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: he put her in the tub to try to get
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: rid of trace evidence? There is evidence that she may
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: have been sexually assaulted. What I don't get either she
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: was or she wasn't, Doctor Gallagher. I mean, how hard
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: does it figure out if there is sperm on the
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: body or in the body, or in her mouth or
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: in her hair on her face, was she partially closed,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: has her clothes been in disarray or ripped or torn?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, how can you say may have been sex assaulted? Well,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: that's always the question. If there was a semen or
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: sperm or biological material on the body after the body
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: was placed in the water, then that may have been
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: degraded or even totally lost. If there is that type
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: of material within the body. Using a sexual assault kit,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: samples are taken from the mouth, samples are taken from
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: the female areas and even the rectum. Those would be
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: preserved in water actually, and then those would good result,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher. We're not afraid to say vagina. It's not
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: a dirty word, you know, Spit it out there so
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: you can look in the rectum area, the vagina, the
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: vaginal area. Well, really, when you're looking at a sex attack,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher, especially of this nature of a disorganized killer,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: you could find sperm anywhere on the body. On the stomach,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: on the back, on the face, on the mouth, it's
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: just anywhere. I'm also very interested in her clothing, Doctor Gallagher.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Now explain to me, doctor Gallagher, when the body gets
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: to the Medical Examiner's office of the Mork, how do
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: you process those clothes? Now, I know these clothes are
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: soaking wet, But tell me what do you do if
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: you're looking for sperm or DNA of any type and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: you want to look at those clothes? How do you
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: do it if the clothes are wet? Or do they
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: do it? They just say, oh, well, it's a lost cause.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I know the clothing is a very important part of
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: the process, and there are many techniques that we use.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: The first technique we would use would be to simply
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: dry the clothing and then any DNA material would be
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: then embedded into whoa, whoa, wait wait a minute, wait
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: a minute, what do you just throw it in the dryer?
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: How do you dry it's there's got to be a
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: special way. There is There is There is a special
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: drying room where the humidity is kept very low. There
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: is no wind or breeze associated with that, and then
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the clothes are dried in a very humid free environment.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: But you don't. You don't actually blow them with like
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: any kind of a vent or a dryer, do you,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: because wouldn't that get rid of DNA potentially like hair
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: five hair or fibers, clothing fibers. Right. Yeah, there is
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: no breeze. It's a closed room and just the humidity
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: is kept very low. There's no air circulation or very
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: little air sir. Yeah, I was just trying to imagine
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that when you said we dry them, I'm like, throw
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: it in a dryer. I guess you couldn't do that
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: because that could somehow damage evidence as well. So you
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: just let it dry and then what do you do?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Just just to reiterate, every aspect of the clothing process
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: is with the intent that the evidence be preserved. So
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: there's not going to be any violent or ungentle handling
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: of the clothing crime stories. With Nancy Grace. What happened
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to Kate Thomason, the question still lingers. I got a
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: question for Laura Petler crime saying, Aliston private investigator, you're
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: an m fact expert. What can you tell me about
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: how that could be used? So I was thinking about
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: that as doctor Gallants a Beer was talking about the clothing.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: So once the clothing is dried, the other thing that's
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: very common in the drawing process is to is to
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: like put the clothing over white sheets or trays like
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: so if you're laying them flat or you're hanging them up,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: any of the trace evidence would fall onto those sheets.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Then once that process is done and any of that
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: traces collected, the MVAC is a wet vacuum. It's very
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: similar to a rug doctor with an upholstery attachment. And
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I know that sounds strange, but really that's it's a
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: great way of understanding what it is. So it looks
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: like a shower head and you take the dry clothing
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: and you turn on the MVAC and it shoots water
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: just like a shower head down through the handle of
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: the MVAC. And then as you're pulling the handle across
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: the clothing, it also has a suction like a vacuum cleaner,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and so it's literally almost like a steam cleaner process
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: where it's pulling all that debris that could be touch DNA,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: nuclear DNA, various types of biological material all out of
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the clothing. And what's wonderful about it, Nancy, is instead
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: of just picking an area to swab for touch DNA,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: say like on the shoulders if someone grabs somebody by
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the shoulders or on the wrist. The MBAC is wonderful
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: because we can actually and back the entire garment and
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: collect all the material on the entire item of clothing.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: We don't have to pick which would be most likely
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: where the offender grabbed the victim. Okay, hold on, wake up,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, Daryl Cohen, Way. I remember when I first
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: saw you in the courthouse. I found out, first of
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: all that your nickname was cool Breeze. I tried not
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to judge you because of that. Then I heard the
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: rumor that you left the DA's office because I elected DA.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: He was like your grandfather to me. Lewis Slayton told
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you could either be a prosecutor full time or you
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: could be a male model, and you went with male model.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Now I don't know if that's true or not, but
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: wake up. Our tutorial on forensics is over. I'm going
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: to get back down to the nitty gritty, and then
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: I want you to weigh in. I don't know how
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: you could represent somebody like this, Daryl Cohen, but somehow
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: you managed to cast the check. John Limley, question to you,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: what did we learn from the body? The body, in
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: addition to what we've already mentioned, that she had been
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: beaten and tied up and stabbed in the back of
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: the neck. Investigators, and why does that just like trip
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: off your tongue like you're a nursing rum. Hickory Dickory
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: dock the master runs. I mean the way you say it,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: she's tied up, she stabbed in the neck. I mean,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: do you hear what you're saying, Lily? It does something.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine being alone in a home and finding
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: out this freak is in there. I'm wondering if he
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: brought the knife or if he used a knife from
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: her kitchen. Sob I hate him and I don't even
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: know who he is. Go ahead. One of the things
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: that investigators noticed that night when they first saw the
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: body and then when the autopsy was taking place, is
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: that Kay had some defensive wounds on her. She had
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: put up a fight. She hadn't just taken this sitting
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: down or lying down. She was ready to fight back. Okay, So,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, if you go to the saint, let's pretend no, no, no,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I'll go as a defense lawyer. I was gonna say,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: pretend you were still in the DA's office. But if
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: you go to the scene as a defense lawyer, what
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: are you looking for. The thing i'm looking for is everything.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I'm looking to see if there's a knife taken, as
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: you mentioned, from the kitchen. Normally people will have knives
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: all together. I'm looking to see if there's any other
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: evidence that this pert may have made. And by the way,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: let me point out, I think you guys are giving
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: this guy a lot more intelligence credit than he deserves.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: I don't see this as an intelligent guy. I don't
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: know if this was a targeted murder and robbery or
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: if it was random. But obviously her house was the
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: easiest house to get to. But I don't see him
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: as a bright guy. He is obviously disorganized. I don't either.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Didn't you hear me say I think he was a
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: disorganized killer. I don't think he's that bright. I think
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: he picked the first house he got taken. I don't
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: see him as intelligence. He may be disorganized, and they're
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: intelligent people are disorganized. I think that he was enraged.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe he was looking for a lot more money. Or
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: jewelry than she may have had, and that's why he
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: tied her up, That's why he stabbed her in the back.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: I don't think he put her in the tub to
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: get rid of trace evidence or to get rid of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: any evidence. I think that was just another way of
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: showing his rage. So I go to the house. I'm
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: looking for everything. I'm looking for how he would have entered.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for any possibility that there may have been
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: something there that he was looking for, that he might
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: have She had a yard man, maybe she had a
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: cleaning service that he may have been told by them.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: She's keeping this type of wonderful jewelry available. I'm looking
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: for every possibility, and then I throw it out, I
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: throw it in the mix, and then I say, no,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: this is not what's happened. This should be a treasure
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: trove of information, Daryl Cohen, because not far away at
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: all is her Kia Sorrento. Hello, were there not any
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: prints on that? I mean, that should be a massive
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: treasure of evidence. John lom me tell me about the car.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Where was it found? I assume that was her car?
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: What can you tell me? Tell me everything? Well denied
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: that the family member discovered Kay's body there. The first
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: thing they noticed when they drove up to Kay's house
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: was that her suv was gone, a black twenty twelve
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Kia Sorrento had a Georgia tag a trailer hitch And
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: now the date of Kay's murder was Wednesday, June twenty seventh,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and it was three days later, on a Saturday, June thirtieth,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: that police did find that suv and it was just
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: four or five miles away in the city of Shamblely, Georgia,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: in the parking lot of an apartment complex. They don't
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: have surveillance. The apartment complex doesn't have surveillance in this
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: day and age. I find that very hard to leave.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: That would be hard to believe. But if it does,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: police have not released that to the public. End to
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: the press, Kay did own some rental properties around Metro Atlanta. However,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: this was not one of them. This appeared just to
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: be a convenient dump site for the murderer to lead
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: the vehicle with what appears to be no other significance whatsoever.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, A lady living on her own had
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: rental property all over Atlanta. That means if she was
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: personally involved and let's just say rent collection or people
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: coming by her home to leave rent. I don't know
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: if that is accurate or not, but that's a whole
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: another can of worms regarding who killed Kay Thomason with
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollar reward on the table, video surveillance,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Akia Sorrento that should be covered in prints, potential DNA.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Why hasn't this case been solved? Tipline four zero four
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: five seven seven tips repeat four zero four five seven
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: seven eight four seven seven Who murdered k thomasin We
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds? Nancy Grace crime story signing off
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: goodbye friend,