Transcript

Sharri | 17 September · Sharri

0:06
Speaker 1: Thanks, James. Good evening. Tonight, Kyle Sanderlands reveals he's received
0:11
Speaker 1: chilling death threats from Hamas. And when he tried to
0:14
Speaker 1: get a bulletproof vest to protect himself, he was knocked
0:17
Speaker 1: back because of his friendship with a controversial businessman. My
0:21
Speaker 1: conversation with Kyle in a moment. Plus, Australia's top spy
0:26
Speaker 1: says there could be an assassination attempt on a Jewish leader.
0:29
Speaker 1: I'll bring you those exclusive comments shortly. And Labor has
0:34
Speaker 1: finally unveiled its migration policy six weeks late. Matt Canavan
0:39
Speaker 1: isn't happy with it. He'll be right here to rip in.
0:43
Speaker 1: But first tonight, radio broadcaster Kyle Sanderlands has sensationally revealed
0:49
Speaker 1: he's had threats on his life by the most brutal
0:52
Speaker 1: terrorist organisation in the world. He also said that he
0:56
Speaker 1: obliged for a gun licence, but it was denied over
0:59
Speaker 1: his friendship with controversial Sydney nightclub identity John Ibrahim. I
1:05
Speaker 1: spoke to Kyle this morning and we were discussing how
1:08
Speaker 1: one of the Bondi shooters, Sajid Akram, was legally able
1:12
Speaker 1: to obtain a firearm licence. This is despite the fact
1:17
Speaker 1: that he was on the radar of law enforcement and
1:19
Speaker 1: intelligence agencies for nearly two decades before the Bondi attack.
1:25
Speaker 1: There'd been alerts in 2007 and 2014 about Sajid Akram's
1:30
Speaker 1: interest in explosive material and then his interest in Islamic State.
1:36
Speaker 1: They'd also been travel to terror hotspots. Yet he was
1:39
Speaker 1: given a gun licence. And Kyle bizarrely wasn't. Have a look.
1:46
Speaker 2: I just assumed being a member of the public, if
1:49
Speaker 2: someone is ever on some sort of ASIO watch list,
1:52
Speaker 2: they're not allowed weapons. I used to be a sporting shooter.
1:56
Speaker 2: And because I am friends with John Ibrahim and he's
1:59
Speaker 2: had issues with the law, I was denied my sporting
2:02
Speaker 2: shooter's license. Oh, wow. I also had threats from an
2:06
Speaker 2: international terrorist organization at one stage. And I wanted to
2:11
Speaker 2: get some bulletproof vests. And I was told by the
2:14
Speaker 2: New South Wales police, I was not allowed to. That
2:16
Speaker 2: was under a firearms law.
2:17
Speaker 1: You weren't allowed to have a gun.
2:19
Speaker 3: No.
2:19
Speaker 1: But Sajid Akram.
2:20
Speaker 2: Was allowed to have a gun. Was allowed.
2:22
Speaker 1: Even though he traveled to a terror hotspot.
2:24
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:24
Speaker 2: And even though they'd been on the watch list and
2:26
Speaker 2: even though the father and him were questionable, But I
2:30
Speaker 2: knew someone that got charged but didn't get convicted and
2:34
Speaker 2: I was told I wasn't allowed.
2:35
Speaker 1: The law is crazy.
2:36
Speaker 2: Not even allowed a bulletproof vest. That's the same charge
2:39
Speaker 2: as me having a firearm unlicensed.
2:42
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
2:42
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, why can't we have protection?
2:46
Speaker 1: So, of course, when this came up, I pressed Kyle
2:48
Speaker 1: on exactly who was threatening him. Here's his response. What
2:53
Speaker 1: terror organisation threatened you, by the way?
2:56
Speaker 2: Bruno, which was the... I can't remember which one.
2:58
Speaker 5: It was.
2:59
Speaker 2: Sorry, Bruno, what's that? That's all right, it was Hamas.
3:01
Speaker 1: Hamas? Hamas threatened you.
3:03
Speaker 2: They threatened to have me killed, yeah.
3:05
Speaker 1: Is this since October 7th?
3:06
Speaker 2: No, no, this was prior to that. Because I've been
3:09
Speaker 2: standing up.
3:09
Speaker 1: Hamas is going on praising the Albanese government and threatening
3:12
Speaker 1: to kill Kyle Satterthwaite.
3:12
Speaker 2: That's right, and I'm not allowed to have a bulletproof vest.
3:14
Speaker 2: And I even asked, what was that suitcase thing I wanted?
3:17
Speaker 2: The President of France has got.
3:19
Speaker 5: It essentially looks like a laptop bag, but all that
3:23
Speaker 5: you do, you do one gesture with it.
3:26
Speaker 2: It collapses down like a shield.
3:30
Speaker 1: That's right.
3:30
Speaker 2: Not allowed. I felt like the police and the government
3:34
Speaker 2: were happy for me to be killed at one stage.
3:36
Speaker 1: That's terrible.
3:37
Speaker 2: We've had death threats here. I've had death threats on
3:39
Speaker 2: my family. I've had it all, and yet we're not
3:42
Speaker 2: allowed anything.
3:43
Speaker 1: But Hamas is no joke. I mean, we saw what
3:45
Speaker 1: they did on October 7. They even killed babies. Yeah,
3:49
Speaker 1: Hamas is the most bloodthirsty terrorist organisation in the world
3:53
Speaker 1: active today. And Kyle's just revealed they threatened to kill
3:57
Speaker 1: him and his family has had death threats as well.
4:02
Speaker 1: And Kyle clearly felt like police and the government didn't
4:05
Speaker 1: care enough about his personal safety. It might have sounded
4:10
Speaker 1: like I was interviewing Kyle, but I was actually in
4:12
Speaker 1: his studio to speak about our new book, Bondi Terror,
4:16
Speaker 1: of course, that was out just two days ago. And
4:20
Speaker 1: during our conversation, Kyle spoke about the deeply personal toll
4:24
Speaker 1: that the attack had on him and his family. He
4:27
Speaker 1: said that his wife, Tegan, who is Jewish, had been
4:30
Speaker 1: celebrating her birthday with friends when news of the massacre
4:34
Speaker 1: came in.
4:36
Speaker 2: Our families across this, because... When your wife knows people
4:39
Speaker 2: that have been killed, you really pay extra attention because
4:43
Speaker 2: she's heartbroken on her birthday, friends are dying, and we
4:47
Speaker 2: would have been there if we weren't at my wife's
4:50
Speaker 2: birthday party.
4:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really sad and it's just incredible, you know,
4:56
Speaker 1: how devastating this has been for so many Australians. Our
5:00
Speaker 1: conversation went on for nearly an hour, about 50 minutes.
5:03
Speaker 1: I thought Kyle was fascinating, entertaining, but also very smart.
5:08
Speaker 1: He's constantly underestimated. We also discussed the rise of One
5:12
Speaker 1: Nation politics and how Pauline Hanson was resonating with voters
5:17
Speaker 1: after the terror attack.
5:19
Speaker 2: I spent extended time with her. I was like, oh,
5:23
Speaker 2: I felt like an idiot because I thought she's not
5:27
Speaker 2: what I've always thought she was. She's proud to be Australian.
5:31
Speaker 2: She wants us to conserve our Australian ways.
5:34
Speaker 1: The public have decided she's authentic. They trust her. They
5:38
Speaker 1: like her. They can forgive the mistakes.
5:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she hasn't said something last week and changed
5:42
Speaker 2: her mind this week because it doesn't suit the narrative.
5:45
Speaker 2: She is rock solid.
5:46
Speaker 1: She's the ultimate conviction politician.
5:48
Speaker 2: And what's wrong with putting an Australian flag up and
5:51
Speaker 2: respecting the flag that we live under? Nothing.
5:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting to hear Carl speak about politics like that. And,
5:59
Speaker 1: I mean, remember when Anthony Albanese was dragged kicking and
6:02
Speaker 1: screaming to call a royal commission and his utterly abysmal
6:07
Speaker 1: response to the attack. Well, here's what Kyle had to
6:10
Speaker 1: say briefly about that. Everyone saw how he reacted, how
6:14
Speaker 1: he announced those Gun laws, how he wouldn't call the
6:17
Speaker 1: Royal Commission.
6:19
Speaker 2: It felt like, I was like, whose side are you on?
6:22
Speaker 5: Yes.
6:23
Speaker 1: And once you see that in a leader, it's turned Australians.
6:26
Speaker 2: Off their- You can't get that back, right?
6:28
Speaker 1: You can't get it back.
6:29
Speaker 2: Once it's gone, that trust, it's gone forever.
6:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, the full interview is on Carl Sanderland's Live and
6:36
Speaker 1: you can have a look at it. But he's, look,
6:38
Speaker 1: I genuinely thought he was a fantastic person to be
6:41
Speaker 1: in conversation with. I mean, he's one of the top
6:43
Speaker 1: broadcasters in the country. He's so interesting and caring with
6:47
Speaker 1: a heart. And as I said, much smarter than you realise. So, yeah,
6:51
Speaker 1: it was great to have that chat with him. You
6:53
Speaker 1: can have a look at it. But as I discussed
6:55
Speaker 1: with Kyle, the shocking shooting on Bondi Beach was really
6:58
Speaker 1: when voters turned to Pauline Hanson. You know, prior to that,
7:02
Speaker 1: at the last election, her primary vote was only 6.5%. Now,
7:06
Speaker 1: as we know, it's on par with Labor at around 30% primary.
7:12
Speaker 1: And this is why Australians turned to her, because of
7:14
Speaker 1: the terror threat. And now it seems that the threat
7:17
Speaker 1: is far from over. ASIO Chief Mike Burgess has revealed
7:22
Speaker 1: that he believes... There'll be an assassination attempt on a
7:26
Speaker 1: Jewish leader by Iran. These are new comments. And Burgess
7:30
Speaker 1: has also come out directly. He's gone further than before.
7:34
Speaker 1: And he said that political leaders should have stood up
7:37
Speaker 1: strongly and called out anti-Semitism after October 7. He says
7:42
Speaker 1: not many did. He made these comments, these new comments.
7:46
Speaker 1: in an extended interview with broadcaster Neil Mitchell. It's out
7:50
Speaker 1: only tomorrow. Neil Mitchell has kindly given us the comments
7:54
Speaker 1: to share with you tonight. Now, Neil Mitchell followed up
7:57
Speaker 1: on the comments that Mike Burgess made to me and
8:00
Speaker 1: Alex Rivchin for our book. You might remember Burgess said
8:04
Speaker 1: that he could have shouted louder, but others in leadership
8:08
Speaker 1: positions didn't do enough. Well, Mitchell asked Burgess precisely who
8:13
Speaker 1: he met, who didn't do enough, Who should have stood up?
8:16
Speaker 1: Have a listen.
8:17
Speaker 6: I think that all of us should have stood up more.
8:21
Speaker 6: Maybe I could have shouted more. Political leaders could have
8:23
Speaker 6: said this is not right. I mean, a couple of
8:25
Speaker 6: them did do that, but not many of them did.
8:27
Speaker 6: The media should have probably watched how it was reporting.
8:29
Speaker 6: It's OK to say this is happening. Gaza, you know,
8:33
Speaker 6: and actually by all means be critical of the state
8:36
Speaker 6: of Israel, but actually say, but we're not talking about
8:38
Speaker 6: Australians or people of Jewish faith.
8:39
Speaker 2: They're different.
8:41
Speaker 6: So I think more people could have stood up and said,
8:43
Speaker 6: we can't accept this. And unfortunately, that did not happen.
8:46
Speaker 1: I mean, who could possibly argue with that? Very few
8:51
Speaker 1: politicians called out the explosion in hatred that was arising
8:55
Speaker 1: on our streets. Mike Burgess also in this interview said
8:58
Speaker 1: that Islamic extremism represents 70% of ASIO's caseload, 70% Islamic extremism.
9:06
Speaker 1: But he said the problem wasn't growing. And he did
9:09
Speaker 1: say that there are also violent extremists on the right.
9:13
Speaker 1: But then he had this alarming warning that Iran may
9:17
Speaker 1: want to assassinate a Jewish leader.
9:21
Speaker 6: I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Iran will want
9:23
Speaker 6: to kill prominent Jewish Australians. So again, no immediate threat
9:29
Speaker 6: that we're investigating, but we do have that concern. And
9:32
Speaker 6: it's not because Australia, it's because of their hatred of Jews.
9:35
Speaker 5: That a foreign country could want to come into this
9:37
Speaker 5: country and kill Jewish leaders.
9:39
Speaker 6: Yes, that is a possibility.
9:41
Speaker 5: Are the Jewish leaders aware of that?
9:43
Speaker 6: Some of them are, yes. Some of them who we've
9:45
Speaker 6: had to talk to are.
9:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is extremely worrying. And more than that, it's
9:51
Speaker 1: terrifying for Jewish leaders. Burgess said he was doing everything
9:55
Speaker 1: he could to get ahead of these problems and he's
9:58
Speaker 1: actively investigating and looking for signs to be able to
10:01
Speaker 1: stop any attempts. And Mitchell asked him, it was a
10:04
Speaker 1: really good question. By the way, Neil Mitchell is going
10:07
Speaker 1: to be on the show shortly. Mitchell asked him whether
10:09
Speaker 1: it was inevitable that another Bondi would occur. Here's what
10:13
Speaker 1: Burgess said.
10:14
Speaker 6: We have a number of investigations jointly with the police
10:17
Speaker 6: where people have concerning ideologies and we're trying to understand out,
10:20
Speaker 6: do they have a plan? So, yes, there will be.
10:22
Speaker 6: I mean, after Bondi, we've had that device thrown in
10:27
Speaker 6: Western Australia against that Indigenous rally.
10:29
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:31
Speaker 6: It's a thing, sadly. Since Bondi, my agency and the
10:35
Speaker 6: police have prevented, well, so things not actively in plan,
10:41
Speaker 6: but activities of individuals that could have led to an attack.
10:43
Speaker 6: 16 of those events have been stopped by the Police
10:46
Speaker 6: and Security Service since Bondi.
10:49
Speaker 1: Burgess also gave a really interesting insight into the process
10:53
Speaker 1: for conducting surveillance on a suspect once they've got a warrant.
10:57
Speaker 1: Have a listen.
10:59
Speaker 6: If those grounds are met, we can get access to
11:01
Speaker 6: your computer. We can listen to your telephone calls. We
11:05
Speaker 6: could get access to, we could have authorisation to install
11:08
Speaker 6: a listening device in your house, car, place of work.
11:11
Speaker 6: We could hack your phone. So they're pretty intrusive because
11:16
Speaker 6: once we're using those powers, you effectively have no privacy
11:19
Speaker 6: from the security service.
11:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, really interesting behind the scenes detail into how ASIA works,
11:26
Speaker 1: how they operate once they've identified a suspect and once
11:29
Speaker 1: they've got that warrant. Well, Burgess also spoke about just
11:33
Speaker 1: how high the level of antisemitism is right now in
11:36
Speaker 1: our community.
11:38
Speaker 6: Is it rising rapidly? No, but actually it's got to
11:42
Speaker 6: a pretty high disturbing level. So I continue to be
11:45
Speaker 6: concerned by that. It raised its ugly head after the
11:49
Speaker 6: 7th of October. It started with threatening, intimidating behaviour, and
11:53
Speaker 6: then a year later it transitioned to direct targeting of people,
11:57
Speaker 6: places of worship and businesses, and then we saw the
12:00
Speaker 6: death of 15 people. I reckon that's a bad place
12:04
Speaker 6: for us to be, and we still have anti-Semitism as
12:07
Speaker 6: a problem, and that does concern me.
12:11
Speaker 1: And he said what worries him the most is that
12:13
Speaker 1: he can't catch every terrorist. This is what I worry
12:16
Speaker 1: about too. It's the ones you don't know about. And
12:21
Speaker 1: Burgess's view, by the way, is that de-radicalisation programs are
12:25
Speaker 1: worth it, particularly for minors, but he says it's not
12:28
Speaker 1: easy to de-radicalise young minds. And he said he's seen
12:32
Speaker 1: minors as young as 13 who are dangerous. He says
12:35
Speaker 1: there have been success stories, but it's not a simple process.
12:39
Speaker 1: The full hour-long conversation with Neil Mitchell and Mike Burgess
12:43
Speaker 1: is terrific and you can listen to it at Mitchell
12:45
Speaker 1: Unlimited YouTube channel or any podcast platform. It'll be public
12:51
Speaker 1: from 5am tomorrow. Neil Mitchell is standing by to join
12:54
Speaker 1: me in a moment. I think it is really important
12:57
Speaker 1: that Mike Burgess is being frank and upfront with the
13:00
Speaker 1: Australian public. We need to know the threats we're facing
13:03
Speaker 1: as a nation. We need to know this as we
13:07
Speaker 1: discuss and debate policy settings like immigration and national security.
13:13
Speaker 1: And it might be very frightening to hear what we're
13:17
Speaker 1: dealing with in our own country, often from fellow Australians.
13:21
Speaker 1: But I believe it's better to be informed rather than
13:24
Speaker 1: living in a dreamland. I'll come back to that shortly
13:31
Speaker 1: with Neil Mitchell. But now let's look at the immigration
13:33
Speaker 1: policy announced by Tony Burke today, six weeks after he
13:37
Speaker 1: first counselled it. He's targeting backpackers and international students.
13:43
Speaker 4: If you want to come on a temporary basis to Australia,
13:47
Speaker 4: apply for a temporary visa. If you want to come
13:49
Speaker 4: to Australia permanently, apply for a permanent visa. And if
13:53
Speaker 4: you no longer have a valid visa, you should leave Australia.
13:58
Speaker 1: Well, Geoff Chambers in The Australian reports that Tony Burke
14:01
Speaker 1: was rolled by the Prime Minister and Cabinet colleagues... Chambers writes,
14:06
Speaker 1: a diminished Tony Burke has become the minister for fudging
14:09
Speaker 1: immigration figures, designing political fig leaves and convincing Australians higher
14:14
Speaker 1: migration levels are good for housing and the economy. And
14:19
Speaker 1: to discuss, joining me now, Nationals leader Matt Canavan. Matt,
14:22
Speaker 1: great to see you. What did you think about the
14:24
Speaker 1: migration plan announced today?
14:28
Speaker 7: Well, I think the government's just not listening to the
14:30
Speaker 7: Australian people, Shari. two thirds of people want to see
14:34
Speaker 7: serious cuts to migration. The government in its budget six
14:38
Speaker 7: months ago had a forecast of a migration level that
14:41
Speaker 7: was still 20,000 people more per year than we had
14:47
Speaker 7: taken in on average before COVID. And this year they're
14:50
Speaker 7: taking in 100,000 more than that average. This plan announced
14:55
Speaker 7: today doesn't make any cuts to those things. It's a
14:59
Speaker 7: plan to try and implement the plan that they failed
15:02
Speaker 7: to implement six months ago. And there's no real cuts here.
15:07
Speaker 7: There were no numbers given on exactly how many student
15:10
Speaker 7: visas would be reduced, bridging visas would be reduced, visa hopping.
15:14
Speaker 7: There were no estimates of those things that I heard
15:16
Speaker 7: during the speech. There were some cuts. The actual cuts
15:20
Speaker 7: were in the areas we don't need cuts. The working
15:24
Speaker 7: holiday visa scheme just worked very well for a long
15:26
Speaker 7: period of time. It's kind of in the title, it's
15:28
Speaker 7: working people that come here and work on our farms,
15:31
Speaker 7: in tourist businesses. And for the year two and three
15:34
Speaker 7: extensions to those visas, the Immigration Minister announced a 40% cut.
15:38
Speaker 7: But it's not those visas in regional areas that have
15:40
Speaker 7: been growing.
15:41
Speaker 1: So you're disagreeing with the cut he announced today?
15:43
Speaker 7: Totally disagreeing. We stood with the National Farmers Federation today
15:49
Speaker 7: with one pointing out that the government has done no
15:51
Speaker 7: consultation with the farm sector about these changes. there are
15:56
Speaker 7: already major concerns that crops are going to go unharvested,
16:01
Speaker 7: that vegetables are going to go unplanted in the months
16:04
Speaker 7: ahead because the government has been pushing out processing times
16:07
Speaker 7: for working holidaymakers and creating enormous uncertainty for the farm sector.
16:11
Speaker 7: This has been a lazy approach to try and bring
16:13
Speaker 7: numbers down where they just let the inbox grow. And
16:17
Speaker 7: the Farmers' Federation today were warning that we could have
16:20
Speaker 7: a reduced supply of food this Christmas and that will
16:22
Speaker 7: push grocery prices up even higher at a time when
16:25
Speaker 7: fuel prices are about to skyrocket as well.
16:28
Speaker 2: And everything's already.
16:28
Speaker 7: Now, as I say, this working holiday.
16:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, everything's getting expensive.
16:31
Speaker 1: Everything's already so expensive.
16:32
Speaker 7: This working holiday maker scheme, it's not been the cause
16:35
Speaker 7: of the blowout. Only about 6% of the increase we've
16:38
Speaker 7: seen in the stock of temporary visas are working holiday makers,
16:41
Speaker 7: and almost all of that is the British backpackers who
16:44
Speaker 7: can now qualify for extra time working in the cities.
16:47
Speaker 7: It's not in the farms and regions that have caused
16:49
Speaker 7: this problem. But because Labor, I suppose, don't see votes
16:52
Speaker 7: in the regions, they're making... our farm sector, be the
16:56
Speaker 7: scapegoats for their border mismanagement?
16:58
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, clearly... Originally, Tony Burke was going to
17:01
Speaker 1: announce his migration policy six weeks ago. He then met
17:05
Speaker 1: with a lot of resistance in Cabinet. Geoff Chambers gives
17:08
Speaker 1: a bit more detail about what his original plan was
17:11
Speaker 1: going to be, and it went a lot further. Here's
17:13
Speaker 1: what Geoff writes. He says, some of Burke's more sweeping
17:15
Speaker 1: proposals to stop visa hopping, you mentioned that, Matt, overstaying
17:19
Speaker 1: and spurious protection visa claims, were shot down by Cabinet
17:23
Speaker 1: colleagues on the grounds that deeper immigration cuts would destroy
17:26
Speaker 1: Jim Chalmers' fragile economy and have a negative impact on
17:31
Speaker 1: workforce shortages. And also this, Albanese shut down plans to
17:35
Speaker 1: lower the humanitarian intake from 20,000 per year to 13,750
17:42
Speaker 1: per year. So those were some of the original measures
17:44
Speaker 1: they were looking at. I mean, do you agree with
17:46
Speaker 1: some of those, lowering the humanitarian intake, for example?
17:51
Speaker 7: Well, we're working through all of these things closely, Shari.
17:55
Speaker 7: Both Angus and myself have said that the numbers need
17:57
Speaker 7: to come down. They're far too high just on the
18:00
Speaker 7: humanitarian intake that's actually an increase because it was revealed
18:03
Speaker 7: this week by the parliamentary library that in fact the
18:07
Speaker 7: government had put in its budget figures of 13,750 the
18:11
Speaker 7: 20,000 then is an increase from what was in the
18:14
Speaker 7: budget it's going to cost the budget about seven billion.
18:17
Speaker 7: So I doubt we could support that, but we're working
18:20
Speaker 7: through these things. And then on the broader issues you raised,
18:24
Speaker 7: those cabinet leaks are extremely revealing about this government's bankrupt
18:29
Speaker 7: economic strategy. Those quotes.
18:32
Speaker 2: It was a good piece.
18:32
Speaker 1: It was a great piece.
18:34
Speaker 7: Well, those quotes reveal that this government is seeking to
18:37
Speaker 7: artificially prop up our economy by just importing more people.
18:41
Speaker 7: And so bugger the consequences on our hospital system, bugger
18:44
Speaker 7: the consequences for People label Australians able to get into
18:48
Speaker 7: a home. This government's saying all they want to do
18:50
Speaker 7: is pump prime the GDP figures so they can have
18:54
Speaker 7: a talking point that GDP is rising. But never do
18:58
Speaker 7: the government say after that sentence that, in fact, GDP
19:01
Speaker 7: per person, that is the amount of economic output, the
19:03
Speaker 7: amount of wealth we have per Australian, has been falling
19:07
Speaker 7: under this government.
19:07
Speaker 1: The importing of more people is not going to solve that.
19:10
Speaker 1: We've been in a per capita recession, which is why
19:12
Speaker 1: people feel You know, like they can't get by. Just finally,
19:17
Speaker 1: voice leaders are criticising Albanese for failing Indigenous people on policies.
19:23
Speaker 1: Former Indigenous leader Ken Wyatt was one of those who
19:26
Speaker 1: came out. He said... What statements have you seen from
19:28
Speaker 1: the Minister for Indigenous Affairs that are proactive since The Voice?
19:32
Speaker 1: And what has come from the Prime Minister? He was
19:34
Speaker 1: very active during The Voice. Since The Voice, there's been
19:36
Speaker 1: very little. Matt, I mean, I thought this was a
19:39
Speaker 1: really good point because this was supposed to be such
19:42
Speaker 1: an important issue for the government, for the Prime Minister,
19:44
Speaker 1: but they've been pretty silent on Indigenous issues where a
19:48
Speaker 1: lot of work needs to be done. since the failure
19:51
Speaker 1: of The Voice.
19:53
Speaker 2: I think it's.
19:53
Speaker 7: Incredibly sad, Shari. There are serious issues in our Indigenous communities.
19:58
Speaker 7: As someone from central Queensland, I spend time in these communities.
20:03
Speaker 7: They need help.
20:04
Speaker 2: It's a national priority.
20:06
Speaker 7: It should be a national priority to try and uplift
20:08
Speaker 7: the economic outcomes, the social outcomes of our Indigenous Australians.
20:13
Speaker 7: And it would seem that the Prime Minister has just
20:14
Speaker 7: washed his hands here. He had his fingers burnt from
20:18
Speaker 7: the voice result and now doesn't want to return to
20:22
Speaker 7: that well. And I just think it's a dereliction of
20:24
Speaker 7: duty here from the Prime Minister. He's the Prime Minister
20:28
Speaker 7: of all of Australia and we need, as you say,
20:30
Speaker 7: a proactive plan for Indigenous Australians.
20:34
Speaker 1: It's very, very hard.
20:35
Speaker 7: None of these issues are easy. But in the Abbott-led government,
20:38
Speaker 7: with people like Nigel Scullion, we worked very hard to
20:44
Speaker 7: introduce practical measures to keep people into a job, keep
20:47
Speaker 7: kids in school, help our Indigenous Australians start businesses.
20:49
Speaker 2: There were record starts of business.
20:51
Speaker 7: We need to get back to that practical effort to
20:53
Speaker 7: improve people's lives now that we've said no to the
20:57
Speaker 7: grand theory of the voice. That's been decided. We need
20:59
Speaker 7: to move on from that.
21:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's been a lot of issues with negligence
21:03
Speaker 1: of Indigenous children, which we've been covering on the show.
21:06
Speaker 1: The Australian's been doing incredible reporting on this week. Matt Canavan,
21:10
Speaker 1: great to see you as always, this time over the screen.
21:12
Speaker 1: Last Thursday night, I saw you in person when you
21:14
Speaker 1: came to our book launch. Very grateful for you making
21:17
Speaker 1: the effort for that. Thank you so much.
21:18
Speaker 2: The book's sold out, apparently.
21:20
Speaker 7: I've got to wait for my order.
21:22
Speaker 1: Well, you can still buy it at QBD Books and
21:25
Speaker 1: you can still order it at Amazon. I will do
21:28
Speaker 1: that right away. They're reprinting, they're restocking, but QBD Books
21:31
Speaker 1: and Big W, I'm told, still have stock. But otherwise
21:34
Speaker 1: they are restocking, they're reprinting. I didn't know everyone would...
21:37
Speaker 1: We didn't know there'd be so much support from Australians.
21:40
Speaker 1: Thank you, Matt.
21:41
Speaker 2: You deserve it.
21:41
Speaker 1: Thank you. All right, so let's return to that interview
21:45
Speaker 1: that Neil Mitchell did with the ASIO Director-General, and Neil
21:49
Speaker 1: Mitchell joins me live now from Melbourne. Great to see you, Neil,
21:52
Speaker 1: and congratulations on this fascinating interview. Now, the scariest warning
21:57
Speaker 1: to come out of it was about the risk of
21:59
Speaker 1: an Iranian assassination attempt.
22:02
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of scary things in it, although
22:05
Speaker 5: Mike Burgess does stress nothing is about to happen. He
22:08
Speaker 5: doesn't have information that something's about to happen. But isn't it?
22:11
Speaker 5: I mean, that Iran could seriously be thinking of trying
22:16
Speaker 5: to assassinate Australian Jews, Jewish leaders on Australian soil. I mean,
22:21
Speaker 5: that is just defies understanding. It defies belief. But it's
22:26
Speaker 5: been serious enough that he's warned a number of Jewish
22:28
Speaker 5: leaders about it. It's an interesting interview. decided to be
22:32
Speaker 5: more public to try to demystify ASIO and bring the
22:36
Speaker 5: public along with him, to get the public involved in this.
22:40
Speaker 5: It's everybody's responsibility. That's what he says.
22:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a good point. And you think that,
22:44
Speaker 1: you know, whenever there's someone planning or considering doing evil,
22:49
Speaker 1: you just wonder that there might be people around them
22:52
Speaker 1: who notice something, who know something. And those are the
22:56
Speaker 1: people that authorities need to reach.
22:59
Speaker 2: Well, that's true.
22:59
Speaker 5: And I think Mike Burgess has led the world a
23:01
Speaker 5: bit on this. Some other intelligence organisations, particularly the United States,
23:05
Speaker 5: are starting to be a little more public about what
23:08
Speaker 5: they're doing and engaging the public. And that's what he's
23:10
Speaker 5: trying to do. Of course, within strict restrictions, he doesn't
23:14
Speaker 5: want to give away any secrets. He's got to be apolitical,
23:17
Speaker 5: and he does that very well. But it was a
23:20
Speaker 5: fascinating interview. I can't remember him sitting down for a
23:23
Speaker 5: an hour or more and talking in this way. And
23:26
Speaker 5: we had an agreement if there were any problems in it,
23:29
Speaker 5: any security problems, that he had the right to cut them.
23:31
Speaker 5: But he was quite happy with the way it all went.
23:33
Speaker 5: I thought it was fascinating.
23:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree. Somewhat, sorry, what was that?
23:40
Speaker 5: Even some laughs in it. He talked a bit about
23:43
Speaker 5: some of his hobbies.
23:44
Speaker 1: Yes, indeed. No, I thought it was a great interview.
23:47
Speaker 1: I also thought it was interesting, because I didn't speak
23:49
Speaker 1: about this at the start of the show, about the
23:51
Speaker 1: issue of Chinese cars, right? And not just Chinese cars,
23:55
Speaker 1: but all kind of connected vehicles these days, because there
23:59
Speaker 1: are many cars connected to the internet. Now, Burgess said
24:02
Speaker 1: for most Australians, they shouldn't worry about it. It's fine
24:05
Speaker 1: to talk in your car. But he said some should
24:09
Speaker 1: listen to this bit.
24:11
Speaker 6: If you've got something really sensitive you don't want the
24:13
Speaker 6: world to know, then don't talk about it in your car,
24:16
Speaker 6: I would suggest, or don't talk it around a phone
24:18
Speaker 6: device or an iPad. But really, most Australians are fine.
24:24
Speaker 6: That said, nation states and criminals can use and exploit
24:27
Speaker 6: information to great advantage.
24:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, Neil, if the spy boss is saying this, we
24:33
Speaker 1: probably have to think about not sharing confidential information when
24:37
Speaker 1: we're driving.
24:38
Speaker 5: It's interesting, isn't it, Shari, because I think we've all
24:41
Speaker 5: suspected that and the conspiracy theorists have said that'll happen.
24:44
Speaker 5: But here we've got Australia's top spy saying, yeah, don't
24:47
Speaker 5: talk in front of it. Even if your phone's off
24:49
Speaker 5: and sitting on the table, don't talk in front of
24:51
Speaker 5: it if it's sensitive information. And not just Chinese cars.
24:54
Speaker 5: As you said, any device that is connected to the
24:58
Speaker 5: internet is capable of being hacked into and somebody listening
25:02
Speaker 5: to you. I must admit, it's a long time since
25:05
Speaker 5: I worried too much about that.
25:07
Speaker 1: Well, yes, every now and then it is something you
25:09
Speaker 1: have to think about. He also spoke about nation states preparing,
25:13
Speaker 1: and by nation states he meant China again. You know,
25:16
Speaker 1: you pressed him on that. Nation states like China preparing
25:20
Speaker 1: to hack into our telco networks, our power networks, hack
25:25
Speaker 1: into them now but to kind of sit in stealth,
25:28
Speaker 1: my words, not his, and then turn them off in
25:31
Speaker 1: a time of war. Here's what he said.
25:35
Speaker 6: China are preparing for this. But again, they're not going
25:39
Speaker 6: to do it any time soon. There'll be other countries
25:41
Speaker 6: as well. China's the principal concern for Australia.
25:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you asked him just how much of a
25:47
Speaker 1: concern is China?
25:50
Speaker 5: I did. I think he really has China high on
25:54
Speaker 5: the list of concerns, although he's being diplomatic about it.
25:57
Speaker 5: And what I took from what he said was that
26:00
Speaker 5: China probably already is sitting in some of these systems
26:04
Speaker 5: ready to act if they want it. He's not saying
26:06
Speaker 5: they're going to act and he's not saying it's even
26:08
Speaker 5: likely they will, but they probably already have the capability
26:11
Speaker 5: in some areas. That's what I took him to be saying,
26:14
Speaker 5: which is pretty scary too. But, again, he keeps saying, no, no,
26:17
Speaker 5: don't be scared, the old line, don't be alert, don't
26:20
Speaker 5: be alarmed. But he's outlining it in a very, very
26:24
Speaker 5: direct way, which I think is a good thing, as
26:26
Speaker 5: you said earlier. And don't you agree, as you said earlier,
26:29
Speaker 5: it's a good thing to be as open as you
26:31
Speaker 5: can be, involve the public.
26:33
Speaker 8: Absolutely.
26:33
Speaker 1: And I do think we've got to be vigilant in
26:35
Speaker 1: these times. Neil Mitchell, great work in the interview. We'll
26:39
Speaker 1: check it out at Mitchell Unlimited at 5am tomorrow.
26:43
Speaker 5: I'll get up. Thanks very much.
26:45
Speaker 1: Thanks so much.
26:47
Speaker 2: All right.
26:48
Speaker 1: The Albanese government has been refusing to reduce the tobacco excise,
26:52
Speaker 1: despite the fact the black market is fuelling organised crime.
26:56
Speaker 1: And we've seen tobacco fire shop tobacco shop fire bombings.
27:00
Speaker 1: And not only that, but there's also reduced tax revenue
27:04
Speaker 1: as a result. New South Wales Premier Chris Minns has
27:06
Speaker 1: for a long time now said that the excise isn't
27:09
Speaker 1: working and that it's creating an opportunity for crime bosses.
27:13
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson and the Coalition then followed his position. And
27:17
Speaker 1: I'm pleased to say the New South Wales Health Minister,
27:19
Speaker 1: Ryan Park, joins me now. Ryan, great to see you.
27:23
Speaker 1: What would you like to see the tobacco excise reduced to?
27:27
Speaker 9: Well, we want to bring it down.
27:29
Speaker 10: I've said consistently, as has the Premier, that the actual
27:33
Speaker 10: rate we would want to work with the Commonwealth and
27:35
Speaker 10: that they have.
27:36
Speaker 9: All the variables to determine what that is. But we
27:38
Speaker 9: want the number.
27:39
Speaker 2: Down, Shari.
27:40
Speaker 10: We've closed about 500 tobacco stores. We're getting through probably
27:45
Speaker 10: about 15.
27:46
Speaker 9: To 20 a week.
27:47
Speaker 10: But these stores have proliferated our high streets across communities
27:52
Speaker 10: and suburbs and cities here in New South Wales. And
27:56
Speaker 10: When there's such a big gap between the legal product
27:59
Speaker 10: and the illegal product and the excise is a part
28:03
Speaker 10: of that, we think the federal government.
28:04
Speaker 9: Needs to have a look at that. We're not pretending
28:06
Speaker 9: it's the only solution.
28:08
Speaker 10: We've got to do our bit in terms of enforcement,
28:10
Speaker 10: which is what we're trying to do each week.
28:12
Speaker 9: But it's really challenging when you've got such a distorted
28:14
Speaker 9: market as we have at the moment.
28:17
Speaker 1: I'm interested in this. Does the health data even show
28:20
Speaker 1: that the higher excise is reducing smoking rates?
28:24
Speaker 9: Well, I'm certainly not convinced of that.
28:26
Speaker 10: A recent report that was released said that 80% of
28:30
Speaker 10: tobacco use now is through the illicit market. And I
28:34
Speaker 10: think people who are saying that, well, all of a
28:36
Speaker 10: sudden these people who use tobacco suddenly now.
28:40
Speaker 9: Stop smoking, I don't think we can make that conclusion.
28:43
Speaker 10: And I think what the common sense conclusion is that
28:46
Speaker 10: many people who used to purchase legal products for $ 40, $ 50,
28:50
Speaker 10: $ 60 a packet, are now going to the illicit market
28:54
Speaker 10: just down the road and spending $ 10, $ 15 or $ 20.
28:58
Speaker 9: If that at all.
28:59
Speaker 10: So I'd like to say that people are smoking less.
29:02
Speaker 10: We've seen some improvements in young people in terms of vaping.
29:06
Speaker 9: That's pleasing.
29:07
Speaker 10: But I don't want to see another generation, Shari, hooked
29:10
Speaker 10: on nicotine. I don't want to be the health minister
29:13
Speaker 10: that sees this get out of control. And I've made
29:16
Speaker 10: it clear to my agency that we need to do
29:18
Speaker 10: everything we can to continue to shut down these stores.
29:21
Speaker 10: But I do think Tobacco excise plays a big role
29:24
Speaker 10: given the distortion in the market that we're seeing between
29:27
Speaker 10: the two products.
29:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I'm keen to ask you about this data
29:31
Speaker 1: from the Bureau of Health. It shows up to 1,700
29:35
Speaker 1: patients could be stuck in hospitals, you know, waiting for
29:38
Speaker 1: either aged care or endoscopy. support by the middle of
29:41
Speaker 1: next year. So, in other words, these people would be stranded,
29:45
Speaker 1: taking up beds they don't necessarily need in public hospitals.
29:49
Speaker 1: I mean, Ryan, what would you like to see the
29:51
Speaker 1: federal government do about this issue?
29:54
Speaker 10: Well, Shari, this morning I had about 1,362 beds not
30:00
Speaker 10: available to New South Wales residents coming into our emergency departments,
30:04
Speaker 10: and we get somewhere between 8,000 and.
30:06
Speaker 9: 10,000 people coming to our EDs every day.
30:09
Speaker 10: You can see that when you've got 1,300 beds full
30:12
Speaker 10: of people who are either aged care and should be
30:15
Speaker 10: in an aged care home or should be receiving home
30:18
Speaker 10: care packages through the federal government or need NDIS support
30:22
Speaker 10: and should be getting that supportive out of a hospital,
30:25
Speaker 10: you can see what a challenge it's up to. And
30:27
Speaker 10: then when more people come into the ED, if you've
30:30
Speaker 10: got less beds, you get what the classic is a
30:32
Speaker 10: bedlock situation.
30:33
Speaker 9: And that's been a challenge during these winter months.
30:36
Speaker 10: And what we're asking the federal government to do is
30:38
Speaker 10: not only release more home care packages to get these
30:41
Speaker 10: older people out of a hospital, which is a terrible
30:44
Speaker 10: place for them and a terrible place for their family,
30:47
Speaker 10: but making sure the packages are released in full so
30:50
Speaker 10: that they can invest in the services and support services
30:54
Speaker 10: they need to enable them to age at home, which
30:57
Speaker 10: is where we want older people to be once they've
31:00
Speaker 10: finished treatment at the hospital. These are people who no
31:02
Speaker 10: longer need acute hospital care but are utilising a bed
31:06
Speaker 10: because in Australia we don't put older people out on
31:09
Speaker 10: the street. But the reality is that's 1,362 beds as
31:14
Speaker 10: of this morning that.
31:15
Speaker 9: We can't use.
31:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big issue. Just finally, you've announced a
31:20
Speaker 1: new initiative today. This emerged from Bondi's youngest victim, 10-year-old Matilda. Now,
31:25
Speaker 1: you're unveiling an institute for paediatric trauma. Can you tell
31:30
Speaker 1: us about this, Ryan?
31:31
Speaker 9: Yeah, this means so much to me, Shari.
31:34
Speaker 10: After that appalling, atrocious, horrific, murderous attack at Bondi Beach,
31:41
Speaker 10: I spent some hours in the evening and then the
31:44
Speaker 10: subsequent days thinking visiting clinicians and hospitals with those healthcare
31:49
Speaker 10: workers who perform miracles. And one of the people that
31:52
Speaker 10: I spoke to was a trauma specialist at the Children's
31:56
Speaker 10: Hospital at Randwick. And he said to me, Ryan, some
31:59
Speaker 10: of the injuries that we've seen, the likes we've never
32:02
Speaker 10: seen before.
32:03
Speaker 9: And he didn't want to lose that knowledge, that skill,
32:07
Speaker 9: that exposure.
32:08
Speaker 10: He wanted to try and capture that and then use
32:11
Speaker 10: the skills that we have at our paediatric hospitals at
32:14
Speaker 10: Westmead and at Ramwick to really teach the rest of
32:19
Speaker 10: the health and hospital system so that if there is
32:22
Speaker 10: another significant traumatic event like that or a major bus
32:26
Speaker 10: crash or a major incident on one of our roadways
32:30
Speaker 10: and they're not near a hospital like at Ramwick or
32:33
Speaker 10: Westmead that those other clinicians in those hospitals are as
32:36
Speaker 10: prepared as we can be and we're going to invest
32:40
Speaker 10: in this the Sydney Children's Hospital Foundation through their donors
32:44
Speaker 10: is going to invest in this and if there's one
32:46
Speaker 10: good thing that has come out of that horrendous attack,
32:49
Speaker 10: it is that we will have a better prepared health
32:52
Speaker 10: system and better prepared.
32:54
Speaker 9: Clinicians, not just in Sydney, but right across New South Wales.
32:57
Speaker 9: And I think that's something that.
32:59
Speaker 10: Those clinicians and their advocacy should be recognised for. And
33:03
Speaker 10: we as New South Wales residents should be really proud
33:05
Speaker 10: of them for.
33:06
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm putting you on the spot here,
33:08
Speaker 1: but would you consider calling it the Matilda Award?
33:11
Speaker 9: Yeah, we're in discussions with her family.
33:15
Speaker 10: We're having a look at that. We certainly want her
33:18
Speaker 10: to be recognised in some way. That's a story, as
33:23
Speaker 10: your book outlines, that one is incredibly special, heart-wrenching, but
33:30
Speaker 10: a really important one and we hope to do something
33:33
Speaker 10: with that family. We want to keep those discussions up
33:36
Speaker 10: and we're having those, but we think she's going to
33:39
Speaker 10: play a big role in that facility.
33:41
Speaker 1: Good. Yeah, Michael and Val are very special as is Summer.
33:44
Speaker 1: Ryan Park, thank you very much for your time.
33:46
Speaker 9: Thank you very much and congratulations on the book.
33:48
Speaker 10: I'm up to Chapter 7 and, yeah, Matt Canavan, pick
33:53
Speaker 10: up and read it.
33:54
Speaker 9: It's well worth it.
33:55
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Ryan. Really appreciate it. Thank you
33:57
Speaker 1: for reading. All right, still to come, the Prime Minister
34:00
Speaker 1: denies he helped a disgraced actor land a role as
34:03
Speaker 1: Australia Day ambassador. And the politics of immigration, Paul Kelly,
34:08
Speaker 1: the Australian's editor-at-large, will join me after the break. Welcome back. Well,
34:16
Speaker 1: immigration is taking centre stage in the political battlefield. And
34:20
Speaker 1: to discuss, joining me now, the Australian's editor-at-large, Paul Kelly. Paul,
34:24
Speaker 1: great to have you on the show again. We saw
34:26
Speaker 1: Tony Burke announce his big immigration centrepiece today. It was
34:29
Speaker 1: quite underwhelming. Pauline Hanson has announced hers. We're waiting for
34:33
Speaker 1: the coalitions. I mean, it's interesting to see immigration like
34:37
Speaker 1: it has in other countries be the centre of the
34:39
Speaker 1: political debate now.
34:41
Speaker 3: I think it will stay the centre of the debate
34:43
Speaker 3: all the way through to the next election. I think
34:46
Speaker 3: the key to understanding it, Shari, is there's a conflict
34:49
Speaker 3: now between the politics and the economics of immigration. Now,
34:54
Speaker 3: what Pauline Hanson has done is Pauline Hanson said, I'll
34:58
Speaker 3: deliver on what my constituency wants. I'll deliver on the polls.
35:03
Speaker 3: I'm going to slash immigration to this country. I'll cut
35:07
Speaker 3: temporary migration by 750,000. over the next three years. And
35:13
Speaker 3: then we'll end up with national overseas migration at 150,000.
35:19
Speaker 3: So she's saying regardless of the economic consequences, I will
35:23
Speaker 3: deliver on the politics. What we saw from Tony Burke
35:26
Speaker 3: today was the opposite. Tony Burke keeps the numbers the same.
35:30
Speaker 3: He's made some minor adjustments. But essentially what he's saying
35:34
Speaker 3: is we're going to maintain immigration because to slash the
35:38
Speaker 3: immigration numbers is to damage the economy. It's to harm
35:41
Speaker 3: industry after industry. So he's taking a stand on the economy.
35:46
Speaker 3: So essentially what we'll see is this battle between Hanson
35:49
Speaker 3: and the Labor government over whether it's the politics or
35:53
Speaker 3: the economics of immigration. What happens to the coalition? They're
35:58
Speaker 3: in the middle. Not a bad place to be. Not
36:00
Speaker 3: a bad place to be. They'll probably end up with
36:03
Speaker 3: a target of about 170,000. But the point about this is,
36:07
Speaker 3: is being in the middle... the right place to be
36:10
Speaker 3: politically these days. And the risk, the risk the Liberal
36:13
Speaker 3: Party faces is that this might end up being a
36:16
Speaker 3: contest between the Labor government and Pauline Hanson. The Liberals
36:21
Speaker 3: don't want that. They've got to fight on two fronts.
36:24
Speaker 3: It won't be easy.
36:26
Speaker 1: Even putting the immigration policy aside, I mean, it does
36:29
Speaker 1: seem like Pauline Hanson is acting as opposition leader now.
36:33
Speaker 1: It does seem like the contest is between Labor and
36:36
Speaker 1: One Nation in many respects.
36:39
Speaker 3: Well, what we've seen from Hanson over the last couple
36:41
Speaker 3: of weeks is she's brought out a tough-minded super policy, again,
36:45
Speaker 3: a bold policy, a very risky policy in terms of
36:49
Speaker 3: the economics, saying that people can take out 3% of
36:53
Speaker 3: their super in terms of looking after current living standards.
36:57
Speaker 3: And the consequence of that is, of course, that will
36:59
Speaker 3: diminish their retirement income pool. That is a very risky,
37:04
Speaker 3: it's a bold policy. Again, it confronts Labor. So I
37:07
Speaker 3: think this is a challenge for the Liberal Party and
37:10
Speaker 3: the Liberal Party have got to get more of their
37:13
Speaker 3: policies out there.
37:14
Speaker 1: Yeah.
37:15
Speaker 3: And they've got to get these policies out there pretty soon.
37:17
Speaker 1: They've been so slow.
37:19
Speaker 3: Well, they've got to get out. Well, I think what
37:24
Speaker 3: I'd be doing if I was a Liberal advisor, I'd
37:27
Speaker 3: be saying to the party, you've got to get out
37:30
Speaker 3: the immigration policy pretty soon and you've got to get
37:33
Speaker 3: out the superannuation policy. Yeah. And for God's sake... they've
37:36
Speaker 3: got to start selling their taxation policy. I mean, months
37:40
Speaker 3: ago they announced... It's an excellent policy, isn't it? Well,
37:42
Speaker 3: months ago.
37:42
Speaker 2: Well, it's a secret.
37:43
Speaker 1: Personal income tax thresholds and no-one knows about it.
37:45
Speaker 3: Well, it's a secret because Liberal frontbenchers seem not keen
37:49
Speaker 3: to talk about it at all. This is the central
37:53
Speaker 3: taxation policy for the party and I think the public
37:57
Speaker 3: knows absolutely nothing about it.
37:58
Speaker 1: Completely right.
37:59
Speaker 3: So there is a communications issue here.
38:02
Speaker 1: The economy is, look, you'd have to say it's doing terribly, right?
38:06
Speaker 1: Rising interest rates, inflation, cost of living, trillion dollars in debt,
38:11
Speaker 1: productivity slowing, wages slowing. You know, why isn't this more.
38:17
Speaker 3: That's a pretty good summary.
38:18
Speaker 1: Well, I think so. Thank you.
38:19
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, essentially you've got a conflict here between
38:22
Speaker 3: high inflation on the one hand and the fact that
38:24
Speaker 3: the economy is slowing on the other hand. And, of course,
38:28
Speaker 3: what's now about to happen is is that the Reserve
38:31
Speaker 3: Bank will increase the cash rate again. It will probably
38:35
Speaker 3: go to 4.6% pretty soon. That'll be the highest rate
38:39
Speaker 3: for about the last 15 years. And the really bad
38:42
Speaker 3: news is it might then go higher than that. Now,
38:45
Speaker 3: I think this is looming as a pretty significant milestone
38:50
Speaker 3: for the Albanese government because we know people are doing
38:54
Speaker 3: it tough. We know that living standards are under pressure.
38:58
Speaker 3: Real wages are weak. Productivity is flatlining. People are doing
39:02
Speaker 3: it tough. And if they face another interest rate increase,
39:07
Speaker 3: and they will, with the possibility of a further interest
39:10
Speaker 3: rate increase, then I think the backlash against the Albanese
39:14
Speaker 3: government could be significant. And I think the really important
39:17
Speaker 3: thing to watch for is what are Labor MPs going
39:20
Speaker 3: to say about it? At what stage will Labor MPs
39:24
Speaker 3: start to get restive and start to say, we are
39:27
Speaker 3: on the wrong track?
39:27
Speaker 1: They've been surprisingly unified.
39:30
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not suggesting that that will happen, but I
39:33
Speaker 3: think the tension is going to increasingly build up. Now,
39:38
Speaker 3: when we look at the politics of this, OK, will
39:41
Speaker 3: Labor lose more of its primary vote? If it does,
39:44
Speaker 3: if it does, where will Will it go to One
39:48
Speaker 3: Nation or will it go to the Coalition? So this
39:51
Speaker 3: is going to be another test for the Coalition. If,
39:54
Speaker 3: in fact, Labor's standing declines, the Coalition has got to
40:00
Speaker 3: ensure that Hanson is not the real winner.
40:02
Speaker 1: No, and she is at the moment. Just finally, this
40:06
Speaker 1: battle between Pauline Hanson and Andrew Hastie You know, he's
40:11
Speaker 1: one of the strongest conservative figures, a future leader, an up-and-comer,
40:15
Speaker 1: and he could be taken out in Canning by One Nation.
40:19
Speaker 2: Well, he might be.
40:20
Speaker 3: But, I mean, essentially what's happening here is Pauline Hanson
40:23
Speaker 3: and One Nation have decided they're going to fight hasty
40:26
Speaker 3: and they want to eliminate hasty from the parliament.
40:29
Speaker 2: How does this.
40:30
Speaker 3: Square with the so-called claim from Pauline Hanson that their
40:36
Speaker 3: real enemy is the Albanese government? It's bunkum... And it's humbug.
40:41
Speaker 3: What this is all about is the other fundamental issue
40:44
Speaker 3: which people on the right don't want to talk about much.
40:47
Speaker 3: And that is the power struggle on the right between
40:50
Speaker 3: Pauline Hanson and the Liberal Party. And this will determine
40:54
Speaker 3: the future of conservative politics in this country. And this
40:58
Speaker 3: is a deep, deep struggle. And in a sense, the
41:01
Speaker 3: battle between Andrew Hastie and Pauline Hanson is part of that,
41:06
Speaker 3: part of that process.
41:08
Speaker 1: Well said. Terrific columns as always, Paul. I love having
41:11
Speaker 1: you on the show. You're brilliant. Thank you.
41:14
Speaker 3: Thank you, Sharon.
41:15
Speaker 8: It's true.
41:15
Speaker 1: You don't need to laugh. You're fantastic. All right. Still
41:19
Speaker 1: to come, Albanese grilled on his friendship with Rhys Muldoon. Plus,
41:23
Speaker 1: why are school and uni students protesting Pauline Hanson? Such
41:27
Speaker 1: a waste of time.
41:28
Speaker 8: That's next.
41:32
Speaker 1: Welcome back, where the Prime Minister is denying any role
41:35
Speaker 1: in helping the disgraced actor, former political staffer Rhys Muldoon,
41:40
Speaker 1: in becoming an Australia Day ambassador.
41:43
Speaker 11: Mr Muldoon's comments were completely unacceptable, as I've said. I'm
41:47
Speaker 11: advised that Mr Muldoon has been the Australia Day ambassador
41:51
Speaker 11: since 2014. It's clearly not appropriate for that to occur.
41:57
Speaker 1: Muldoon was fired from Labor Senator Richard Dowling's office after
42:01
Speaker 1: offensive comments on social media surfaced. To discuss, joining me now,
42:05
Speaker 1: my panel, former Liberal Senator turned One Nation member, Holly Hughes,
42:09
Speaker 1: and The Australian's associate editor, Jenna Clark. Lovely to see you, ladies. Well, Holly,
42:14
Speaker 1: Albanese is being asked these questions because he was clearly
42:17
Speaker 1: close with the PM. I mean, he attended his wedding,
42:21
Speaker 1: very intimate wedding at the lodge, and, you know, the
42:23
Speaker 1: famous photo of them kissing at one point.
42:27
Speaker 8: Isn't it revolting?
42:28
Speaker 12: But, of course, the Prime Minister, never his fault, nothing
42:31
Speaker 12: to see here.
42:33
Speaker 8: He had nothing to do with anything whatsoever.
42:36
Speaker 12: You know, I actually have a dear friend of mine
42:39
Speaker 12: who was a play school, one of the original play
42:41
Speaker 12: school hosts, and he was horrified when I sent him
42:44
Speaker 12: through what it was. I mean, this is someone who
42:46
Speaker 12: was educating our children on the national broadcaster and the
42:50
Speaker 12: fact that he's coming out with this sort of anti-Semitic, misogynistic, homophobic,
42:56
Speaker 12: most revolting things and commentary that's being said. But isn't
43:00
Speaker 12: it extraordinary that when Pauline Hanson makes a comment, the
43:04
Speaker 12: world will end.
43:06
Speaker 8: Everything is dreadful.
43:08
Speaker 12: But when one of the PM's closest mates is caught
43:12
Speaker 12: out after being handed numerous positions, there's nothing to say here.
43:16
Speaker 8: And of course, he knew nothing about it.
43:19
Speaker 1: I mean, Jenna, do you think it's believable that Labor
43:22
Speaker 1: didn't know about his offensive comments when he was hired?
43:25
Speaker 1: They've got such a A famously strong vetting process.
43:29
Speaker 13: Famously strong dirt squad as well, Shari. Like they would
43:33
Speaker 13: know everything about everyone at this point in time, including Holly, you, Shari,
43:37
Speaker 13: and probably me. So it just baffles me. But one
43:40
Speaker 13: thing that I just can't get over is, I mean,
43:43
Speaker 13: I would love to know who Albanese's close mates are
43:46
Speaker 13: because I don't think he has many because he continually
43:48
Speaker 13: throws them under the bus.
43:50
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but he kind of had to, right? He
43:52
Speaker 1: couldn't defend this sort of behaviour. And meanwhile, we've seen
43:55
Speaker 1: today the images, thousands of school students, I mean school
43:58
Speaker 1: students and uni students as well, marching against Pauline Hanson
44:02
Speaker 1: across the country, some of them shouting vile, violent abuse.
44:06
Speaker 1: Have a look.
44:08
Speaker 10: The majority of the country here are either queer, immigrants,
44:14
Speaker 10: like all the minorities.
44:17
Speaker 1: I mean, Holly, I think fair enough, uni students, but
44:19
Speaker 1: I just feel uncomfortable about school students kind of getting
44:24
Speaker 1: involved in protests like this where there's so many ugly scenes.
44:28
Speaker 12: The indoctrination is obviously clear, but I'd also think a
44:31
Speaker 12: whole lot of those kids went purely and simply to
44:33
Speaker 12: have a day off school again. I mean, I don't
44:35
Speaker 12: think they really know what they're protesting. I think they
44:39
Speaker 12: should be at school having an additional class of civics
44:42
Speaker 12: so that they understand Pauline Hanson wouldn't become president of
44:47
Speaker 12: the country.
44:47
Speaker 8: Which was what one of the last protesters didn't want
44:51
Speaker 8: to happen. They don't understand. They have absolutely no idea
44:55
Speaker 8: what they're protesting.
44:56
Speaker 12: And clearly the education system, aside from its Marxist indoctrination
45:00
Speaker 12: of these students, is actually failing them in teaching them
45:04
Speaker 12: how the political processes in our nation work and the
45:08
Speaker 12: structure around elections, the... you know, the Westminster system of
45:13
Speaker 12: government and how the whole thing works.
45:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jenna, do you think parents should have more of
45:19
Speaker 1: a role here in making sure the kids do go
45:22
Speaker 1: to school?
45:23
Speaker 13: Yes, they absolutely should because I think, as Holly just said,
45:26
Speaker 13: I mean I'm really at odds to call out teachers
45:30
Speaker 13: and say there is indoctrination happening in our schools because,
45:33
Speaker 13: you know, it's a case-by-case basis. But this is where,
45:36
Speaker 13: you know, you should be having conversations around the dinner
45:38
Speaker 13: table about stuff like this and potentially asking in their
45:41
Speaker 13: midst if there's anyone in this family or this household
45:43
Speaker 13: that's going to vote for Pauline Hanson and why. Have
45:45
Speaker 13: those conversations at home. Parents have a responsibility to educate
45:49
Speaker 13: their children about everything, including civics.
45:52
Speaker 1: Just moving on to another topic, the Financial Review and
45:55
Speaker 1: The Australian both reporting that the Treasurer has stopped using
45:59
Speaker 1: a 20-year average for productivity forecasts and has gone back
46:03
Speaker 1: to a 30-year average that Jim Chalmers once described like this.
46:11
Speaker 14: The assumption in the budget and the assumption in the
46:15
Speaker 14: intergenerational report is set by Treasury based on all the
46:19
Speaker 14: available data here and abroad.
46:22
Speaker 5: And it is a long-run assumption.
46:24
Speaker 14: It's not common to constantly change long-run assumptions. One of
46:28
Speaker 14: the first things I did as Treasurer was to get
46:31
Speaker 14: rid of the Coalition's dodgy productivity assumption and make it
46:35
Speaker 14: more realistic on the advice of the Treasury Department. I
46:39
Speaker 14: accepted their advice to downgrade the long-run assumption to 1.2%.
46:44
Speaker 1: So, Holly, will this mean that Labor's productivity projection won't
46:49
Speaker 1: now be downgraded?
46:51
Speaker 12: Well, I guess what it is is them once again
46:54
Speaker 12: trying to fudge the numbers. But the reality is every
46:58
Speaker 12: single household, every single business in Australia will tell you
47:01
Speaker 12: they are doing it tough, they are struggling to get
47:04
Speaker 12: their budgets to come together, and we see increasing inflation
47:09
Speaker 12: and decreasing productivity going And that's incredibly clear from the
47:14
Speaker 12: rate rises that we're experiencing.
47:17
Speaker 8: And so these guys have got it all around the
47:19
Speaker 8: wrong way.
47:20
Speaker 12: We're supposed to be having inflation going down and productivity
47:23
Speaker 12: going up. Yet every single policy lever they pull sends
47:28
Speaker 12: the country in a different direction. He may try and
47:31
Speaker 12: change the length of the projection or the average period.
47:35
Speaker 8: But at the end of the.
47:36
Speaker 12: Day, you cannot run away from the fact that Australian
47:39
Speaker 12: standard of living is dropping and continuing to drop.
47:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people are worried about the economy
47:44
Speaker 1: as we've been talking about. I mean, Jenna, the International
47:47
Speaker 1: Monetary Fund has also reportedly urged the government to be
47:50
Speaker 1: more ambitious in lifting productivity, also even reducing spending.
47:57
Speaker 13: I love the fact that we're now relying on international
47:59
Speaker 13: bodies to do the job of what business councils should
48:02
Speaker 13: be doing rather than sucking up to the Treasurer and
48:05
Speaker 13: the Prime Minister at their stupid dinners. Just call it
48:09
Speaker 13: for what it is. I'm so sick and tired of
48:10
Speaker 13: being gaslit by this entire country and the bureaucratic and
48:15
Speaker 13: the lobbying class.
48:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
48:19
Speaker 8: All right.
48:19
Speaker 1: Final topic, I think, for tonight, a bit of a
48:22
Speaker 1: change of pace from productivity. We're hearing that there's going
48:26
Speaker 1: to be another one of these women's rights activists rallies.
48:30
Speaker 1: in Victoria this weekend outside of the Parliament. Now, initially,
48:34
Speaker 1: the police said that they weren't going to attend. And
48:38
Speaker 1: the reason they wanted police to attend is because there
48:40
Speaker 1: was a counter-protest by a pro-trans group. This is called
48:43
Speaker 1: Trans Queer Solidarity. They've been reported before in the newspaper
48:48
Speaker 1: for committing assaults, attempting to break police lines, throwing projectiles,
48:53
Speaker 1: clashing with officers. So in breaking news that we've just
48:56
Speaker 1: got coming through this evening, Victoria Police have backflipped. They
49:00
Speaker 1: now are saying they're going to provide a police presence. Holly,
49:03
Speaker 1: they should have done this from the start.
49:05
Speaker 8: Absolutely, they should have.
49:06
Speaker 12: And the fact that these trans groups were actively posting
49:09
Speaker 12: on their Facebook to come and to wear face coverings
49:14
Speaker 12: and to not speak to police and, you know, they
49:17
Speaker 12: were in effect inciting people very problematic behaviour at this rally.
49:22
Speaker 8: And the Victorian police were.
49:24
Speaker 12: Saying, don't worry about it, nothing to say here, even
49:27
Speaker 12: though they have had experience of these rallies turning quite
49:32
Speaker 12: violent and being imposed upon by different groups. But certainly
49:37
Speaker 12: we've seen the trans groups is where the violence has
49:40
Speaker 12: appeared to have allegedly always started from there. And I
49:44
Speaker 12: noticed today that there's been a post put out that
49:47
Speaker 12: the reason that they're actually wearing face coverings is the
49:50
Speaker 12: trans community was worsely impacted by COVID.
49:55
Speaker 4: What a load of rubbish.
49:59
Speaker 1: Jenna, Jenna, 30 seconds. I mean, women have a right
50:03
Speaker 1: to protest. They've got to be able to do so safely.
50:07
Speaker 1: They do.
50:07
Speaker 13: And I just think that it's sad that it's now
50:09
Speaker 13: descended into what we'll probably have one side being, you know,
50:13
Speaker 13: the trans movement and then, heaven forbid, we have the
50:15
Speaker 13: neo-Nazis turning up again. So it's just revolting all around.
50:18
Speaker 1: Everyone, log off and go watch the footy and enjoy yourself. Yes, exactly.
50:22
Speaker 1: Good point. Go watch the footy and say, I don't
50:23
Speaker 1: even know what footy is on, but go enjoy yourself.
50:26
Speaker 1: Get some sunshine. Holly, Jenna, that's all we've got time for.
50:29
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. After the break, we'll see the
50:32
Speaker 1: unusual partnership that Pauline Hanson had today. That's next. Well,
50:39
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister did something miraculous today. He united perhaps
50:43
Speaker 1: the most unusual trio of politicians you'd expect to see together.
50:47
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson, former Labor-turned-Independent Senator Fatima Payman and Independent Di Lee.
50:53
Speaker 1: Here's the trio today. This is not about any comments
50:59
Speaker 1: that have been made in the past by any one
51:01
Speaker 1: of us. Deal with the issues that's here today. You know, Australians.
51:05
Speaker 13: Australians want to see politicians act in a mature way
51:09
Speaker 13: to put their differences aside when it comes to common causes.
51:14
Speaker 1: And that's it for me this week. Thank you so
51:16
Speaker 1: much for your company. Here's Paul Murray.