Latest / HOLOSKY PODCAST / The Vallecas Haunting

Transcript

The Vallecas Haunting · HOLOSKY PODCAST

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: There are cases where you can point to the moment everything went wrong.
0:03
[SPEAKER_00]: For Estefan, you're good as that moment may have been when a Ouija board was broken apart in her Spanish classroom, or could have been something much darker.
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Because months earlier, her dying grandfather looked at her and said, if I cannot harm you in this life, I'll harm you in the next.
0:21
[SPEAKER_00]: What followed was a nightmare that eventually became something incredibly rare in the world of paranormal cases, one that was recorded and filed in a police report.
0:29
[SPEAKER_00]: In 1992, four national police officers entered the family's apartment in the middle of the night after they reported being terrorized by something they couldn't explain.
0:38
[SPEAKER_00]: They witnessed things they couldn't account for.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So what happened inside this apartment?
0:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And if this really is a haunting, what followed
1:06
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the Hollis guy podcast.
2:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We are your host.
2:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Stephen and Kyle and it's Monday.
2:05
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2:07
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2:28
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5:00
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5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And just like that, hollow cold.
5:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We are back.
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome in happy Monday.
5:32
[SPEAKER_00]: As I stated earlier, we are going to talk about haunting possession.
5:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
5:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds aggressive.
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a weird gray area we got here by the cold open.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds very aggressive.
5:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't exactly know where things went wrong because there's multiple places where things could have went wrong.
5:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a grandpa didn't sound very grandpa.
5:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he was an asshole.
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that seems to be an understatement.
6:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
6:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Judging by the cold open.
6:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're diving right into the Viacca's haunting or possession.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Also round of applause for the pronunciation.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I did a good job.
6:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably going to end right there because it's going to, yeah, takes just, I forgive me in advance for mispronouncing mislearn languages.
6:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Mispronounciating.
6:33
[SPEAKER_00]: names that are coming up.
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So today's case is not that old.
6:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes place in the early 1990s, which I guess kind of is that old now?
6:42
[SPEAKER_00]: That sucks.
6:44
[SPEAKER_00]: In the town of Viacca, Spain, small suburb of South East Madrid.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: The case centers around the Gutierrez family, family consists of the father, Maximo, the mother, Conceptsione, and their eldest daughter, Estifania, who was born in 1972.
7:02
[SPEAKER_00]: There's several younger siblings who's identified, or whose identities have been for the most part, kept from public record at the family's request and because they were minors and such.
7:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it should be noted that no member of the family had any documented history of psychiatric illness.
7:20
[SPEAKER_00]: No member had any prior involvement with a cult practices.
7:24
[SPEAKER_00]: They were by all accounts, a conventional Catholic working class family.
7:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Their mother conception was deeply religious.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: She attended Master regularly.
7:35
[SPEAKER_00]: for a while they had taken in her father, who was suffering from dementia, as the dementia said in, he developed a great hatred for the family, which sucks, but she wouldn't they took your haggard ass in, and I don't know if it was
7:55
[SPEAKER_00]: caused by the dementia or if he just didn't like them to begin with and then that said in so bad that like she had become the caretaker.
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He just said, fuck, I'm going to be evil and delving a cold magic and curse you.
8:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he, I don't even know that he delved into a cold magic.
8:12
[SPEAKER_00]: He was just kind of an ass.
8:14
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like one of the things, you know, sometimes people all of a sudden learn.
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: how to speak Spanish and they've had no knowledge of how to do it.
8:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like that.
8:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe just something clicked in his brain and now he's an occult master.
8:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Could be.
8:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably what happened.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: He just knows how to curse people.
8:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
8:33
[SPEAKER_01]: They will be sick.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably what happened.
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But as the Dementious that ended in the disease worsened, he was moved to an end of life care facility.
8:41
[SPEAKER_00]: The family gathered on one day in 1990 to go and see him for what they believed was going to be the last time.
8:47
[SPEAKER_00]: As they were all gathered around his bed saying they're good
8:50
[SPEAKER_00]: The old man looked at his eldest grandstop, Granddaughter, Estefania, and said these chilling words, quote, if I cannot harm you in this life, all harm you in the next.
9:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And that threat would be the last sentence that he ever said because he died minutes later.
9:11
[SPEAKER_00]: What an ass.
9:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is my personal
9:18
[SPEAKER_01]: There would have been a reason he would have passed a couple, how would have pulled the court.
9:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Just unplugged his ass.
9:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Just unplugged him right there on the spot.
9:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, all right, you want to talk your shit?
9:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.
9:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, who, like, she's a teenage girl.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: What could she have possibly done to make you that mad?
9:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly she was bothered by this.
9:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The family was bothered by this, but nothing out of the ordinary really happened.
9:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Post that.
9:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Then one day, about a month later in February, Estefania was at school.
9:55
[SPEAKER_00]: While she was there, one of her friends had snuck in a homemade Ouija board.
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And on their break, they had all gathered together.
10:03
[SPEAKER_00]: There was about six of them decided to use this wager board to try and contact the girls recently deceased boyfriend who had passed away into motorcycle accident.
10:13
[SPEAKER_00]: She was hoping to have one last conversation to like get some closures, say, or goodbye.
10:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe process, try to process some of the grief and losing her young boyfriend.
10:24
[SPEAKER_00]: According to witnesses,
10:26
[SPEAKER_00]: As the girls arranged their hands around the planche and asked the first question, the planche began moving immediately.
10:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Not longer after they had began, a teacher walked into the room where the girls were holding their makeshift.
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Sayons, knowing exactly what they were up to, she immediately broke it up.
10:43
[SPEAKER_00]: grabbed the homemade Ouija board, and as she picked it up, it broke apart.
10:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Witnesses said that, as it broke, a strange gray smoke emitted from the broken board, and was inhaled by Estefania, who was a close-by, obviously, because she was playing on the board.
11:00
[SPEAKER_00]: She had admitted to being afraid when that happened and having a strange feeling at the moment of
11:06
[SPEAKER_00]: She said it was like a cold sensation moved from the plant shed up through her fingers, up through her arms and through throughout her body.
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: She gathered herself, returned to class as normal, didn't have any issues.
11:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be noted that the interruption of the session,
11:26
[SPEAKER_00]: is like another one of the doorways that possibly could have opened up to whatever is coming for us to fawn ya, because like
11:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The way the story plays out, the grandfather's curse feels like the start of something, but the, the, the Ouija board, the interrupted sayons.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I should say, it feels like it was more open to infestation than what he had to say.
11:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Could they both have correlated in with one another possibly, but it's, it's, it's weird because we all know the importance.
12:04
[SPEAKER_00]: of like opening and closing protocols and ritual contact, you know, if you know, if you start a Ouija board, you better better end it because you're leaving that all open ended.
12:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's prevalent like a cross traditions, Catholic exercise and theology, European folk traditions.
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's all not only ceremonial, but it's like definitional.
12:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it establishes a boundary and to find contact, you have to have a defined ending, essentially.
12:37
[SPEAKER_00]: When that boundary is broken from the outside, like without that ending, without that closing procedure,
12:44
[SPEAKER_00]: you you leave a door open you have an enclosed channel and if you open a door you're supposed to close them right as probably even worse the fact that the board is now broke yeah because I don't know how that works can you go back and close the door after the the door's broken hmm I feel like no
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: because that original board is now gone.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless maybe you taped it back together.
13:10
[SPEAKER_00]: She breathed in all the board dust.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would have been trying to get that out.
13:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you open a door, the virtual contact, remember to close it.
13:23
[SPEAKER_00]: When Esther finally returned home later that day, she began to complain that she wasn't feeling well.
13:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, she complained of a headache.
13:31
[SPEAKER_00]: She said she wasn't feeling herself.
13:33
[SPEAKER_00]: She went to bed early that night, but as the weeks continued, her symptoms got worse.
13:40
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't specifically connect it to the Ouija board contact, but you can't overlook the timing
13:52
[SPEAKER_00]: possible infestation and oppression.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: According to her family, she began experiencing horrible convulsions.
13:59
[SPEAKER_00]: She would become completely rigid.
14:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Was laying there in bed.
14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: She said, more than one occasion, her eyes would turn completely white.
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And she would begin foaming from the mouth whenever this would happen.
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So pretty, pretty terrifying.
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That's intense.
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Stop going on.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That's intense.
14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: She also began reporting hearing voices from all around her that no one else could hear.
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: She would hear things in the back of her bedroom, things from inside the house.
14:28
[SPEAKER_00]: She began seeing human shape shadow figures like looking at her through the doorways and stalking her from other rooms.
14:38
[SPEAKER_00]: As I was doing some research, I found a thesis that was written by a guy named Ryan Khaled, who did this thesis kind of, is he related to DJ?
14:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
14:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think it's his cousin.
14:57
[SPEAKER_00]: We do best.
15:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But his thesis was like comparing this to a possible gin and
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: interesting.
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He went through and found all of the documented medical symptoms that she was suffering from and he cataloged them.
15:18
[SPEAKER_00]: These were collected from medical records, physicians, accounts, family testimonies, and retelling from over the year.
15:26
[SPEAKER_00]: He has them in two categories, which one is
15:30
[SPEAKER_00]: documented with possible conventional explanations.
15:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So things that you can kind of write off as maybe this isn't paranormal, but then he has another category where you're like, hmm, these causes are weird.
15:42
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what's going on.
15:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the first one, they have, uh, she suffered from initial fatigue, sleep disturbance, loss of appetite, which is all consistent with acute stress response following some sort of traumatic or frightening experience.
15:57
[SPEAKER_00]: some dissociative appearing episodes, psychiatrists evaluation classified these provisionally as dissociative, though they could not identify a root psychological cause.
16:08
[SPEAKER_00]: In the other category,
16:10
[SPEAKER_00]: These are medically documented with causes undetermined.
16:12
[SPEAKER_00]: She had a persistent fever sustained over extended periods, unresponsive standard medication, with no identified infectious or inflammatory causes.
16:22
[SPEAKER_00]: She had seizures, multiple EEGs performed across several months with no epileptic discharge pattern identified in any of the EEGs.
16:30
[SPEAKER_00]: No structural neurological abnormality, found in cascane imaging,
16:35
[SPEAKER_00]: neurologist documented position, a typical seizure activity with an undetermined origin.
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Rapids of your weight loss and consistent with any identified nutritional or metabolic cause, burn marks appearing on her skin, including on the back and upper shoulders, areas that are specifically very difficult to self-administer burns without specialized tools that were not present in the household.
16:56
[SPEAKER_00]: burn marks continuing to appear during Estefania's hospital stays in supervised clinical environment with no available external heat source.
17:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Vocal episodes documented by multiple witnesses including medical staff, a voice consistently described as lower in register and different in cadence
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: If the burn marks are, that's a big red flag, that's weird, especially them happening in the hospital.
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'd be a little freaked out if, you know, I was hanging out with you and you just started to catch on fire.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: With no visible fire, his skin is just melting.
17:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Can't, you can't have that.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be a little worried for you.
17:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious as to whether or not
17:51
[SPEAKER_00]: If the burn marks were in any specific like pattern or shape, because I couldn't find anything on this, Ryan did excellent research on this, the thesis, while I'll be kind of comparing this to gin and Islamic possession, he dug in super good.
18:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a reason why he went with gin instead of demonic?
18:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is like the classic term tomorrow.
18:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he was compared, like, gave us a comparative thesis where it's like demonic possession and gin possession overlap.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, at first, nobody in the family even considered that the illness could possibly be anything paranormal, as I stated they were by all accounts, just normal, conventional Catholic family, but as they took us to Fania to more and more doctors and specialists, each of them couldn't narrow down a specific biological cause or disorder.
18:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It began to see more and more likely that maybe something beyond regular health care means was going on.
18:55
[SPEAKER_00]: As the months.
18:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, when on the symptoms got worse, she began hearing voices call her name, she began having violent outbursts towards her family, and one case she was actually picked up and thrown across the room backwards by an unseen force witnessed by most of her family.
19:11
[SPEAKER_00]: By 1991, her symptoms kept growing worse.
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: The family made more and more appointments to try to get to the bottom of what was going on.
19:20
[SPEAKER_00]: She had a psychiatric evaluation as to find you was referred to as her first psychiatric evaluation following her physician's inability to account for her physical symptoms.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: The evaluation extended over multiple sessions and produced findings that are
19:36
[SPEAKER_00]: As significant for what they did not find as for what they did, the Psychiatrist found no evidence of psychotic disorder, no clinical indicators of dissociative identity disorder.
19:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Some evidence of acute stress response attributed to unspecified psychosocial stressors, the vocal episodes were noted and classified provisionally as a dissociative.
19:56
[SPEAKER_00]: The burn marks were not attributed to self-harm.
20:00
[SPEAKER_00]: The Psychiatrist documented position on the burns causes undetermined.
20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: more of the neurological investigation in the EEGs, neurological work on Estifania was extensive, standard EEGs extended through EEG monitoring, CAT scans, full neurological examinations.
20:21
[SPEAKER_00]: No epileptic discharge pattern was identified in any of the EEGs across the entire period.
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: The neurologist documented conclusion was a typical seizure activity of undetermined origin's
20:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Additionally, witnesses described features on features, the treating neurologist noted as a typical.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: The absence of standard practical and or pre-edical and post-edical phases.
20:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what that means.
20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just in the report.
20:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually rapid recovery, apparent association with specific locations within the apartment,
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And vocalizations during the episodes that were inconsistent with standard involuntary sounds produced during seizure activity.
21:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So the seizures would be more prevalent in different areas of the apartment than they were in others.
21:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's weird.
21:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It is weird.
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't specify where, but as the haunting goes on, her bedroom is a main kind of centerpoint or what's happening
21:24
[SPEAKER_01]: is also there was also weird shit going on there, which, you know, that makes sense and it seems I feel like that's pretty typical of these types of situations because the bedroom would be your most sacred spy or your safe space.
21:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably where she spends most of her time.
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it gets turned into, you know, the inverse in that situation.
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: When a shitty experience for such a young girl, it's, it's wild to me that so many of these possession cases are usually from people that are preteen teenagers and a lot of them are female.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a few that are, that are true.
22:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Male victims, but a lot of why that is.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
22:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It just dawned on me now because I've been looking into a lot of these
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: hunting and possession cases and stuff and a lot of them center around teen girls i mean at that time your hormones are crazy
22:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You're grandpa hate you, you're grandpa hate you.
22:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, maybe maybe the influx of hormones, because it does seem like at yet young stage for women.
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: They are a lot more, I don't know, like if self-conscious is the word, you know what I mean?
22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they, they feel more than what like a young boy does, the young boy is kind of like
23:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas I feel like a young lady is, it cares a lot more about the way they look and the way they're presented.
23:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know what the right word with that for that would be, but I feel like they're just more empathetic and caring about themselves and self-conscious about themselves than what young men are.
23:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think probably during that time period, like you said, the emotions and stuff are running high, we know these things feed off.
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, any sort of emotional distress, anger, grief.
23:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because they lock in on that shit.
23:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot easier to like, dial up young women like that.
23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you could you could make one nasty comment about their way or their their makeup or their face or the zit and I feel like they take it way more to heart than like the way young man would.
23:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that time period kind of sucks for everybody.
23:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, 13 going into early teens like it's chaos shit sucks.
24:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's yeah, it's kind of makes sense once you line it up there.
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like you said, that creates an up and down in emotions, there's probably spouts of depression because I'm, you know, we, I mean, we, we definitely went through it, we were going through it, yeah, that's that, but.
24:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And those, and those leave little cracks and openings for these things to weasel in not to mention.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: If what this is.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: pointing to is true, she already has an attachment, which is probably going to create more oppression in that situation.
24:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That seems to be evil entity M.O.
24:45
[SPEAKER_01]: is to create large amounts of oppression in which turns into high depression, which create, you're not as strong.
24:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not as strong spiritually, physically,
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: mentally and it just breaks down wall after wall after wall.
25:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it just compounds and feeds on itself at that point.
25:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
25:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you hear that a lot in possession cases that it will try to alienate the person, make them seem crazy, make them seem angry, make just push everybody away to where it can just focus on them and just beat them down essentially.
25:24
[SPEAKER_00]: During one of her periods of hospitalization, a nurse filed an official incident report documenting the following.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: She had entered the patient's room during a night shift and found as the Fania producing vocalizations in what the nurse described as a male voice.
25:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Low and slow that did not match the patient's profile.
25:42
[SPEAKER_00]: The nurse's further documented experiencing and approximately two to three minute period, which she was unable to will herself to approach the bed.
25:51
[SPEAKER_00]: She almost like she was paralyzed when hearing the words that Estefania was saying.
25:56
[SPEAKER_00]: She filed the incident report the following morning and subsequently requested a transfer off of Estefania's ward.
26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Did they love what she was saying?
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that I could find.
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that I could find, which is like if you see that a lot in this case, which makes you wonder if it was embellished as it was being passed down.
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, I don't know, that's a pretty common trope.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: The, you know, the drop in tone.
26:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Which once again, you know, now that you, when ever any time you think about that, it is involving a woman.
26:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because you're that gutter old weird.
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, strange.
26:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if I were to think about a possession and the voice change, it is automatically, a woman comes to mind.
26:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, you continue to get worse and worse for us to find you.
26:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Eventually refusing to be left alone inside her own apartment, stating that someone or something was watching her from inside of the home.
27:00
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, other members of the family began experiencing strange happenings in the apartment as well.
27:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Lights would turn on and off at will.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Strange knocking sounds would come from the walls.
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: The doors would open and shut on their own.
27:12
[SPEAKER_00]: By early August of 1991, as the fondue began saying that the shadow figures that stalked her around the apartment had began calling her name and beckoning her to follow them.
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, she would never find resolution to what was haunting her because just a few days later as to find you unexpectedly fell into a coma.
27:29
[SPEAKER_00]: She was taken to Gregorio Mananun Hospital in Madrid where she passed away on August 14, 1991 at just 17 years old.
27:39
[SPEAKER_01]: A terrible, absolutely tragic.
27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I was hoping it would be the inverse that you were going to say eventually she comes out of it and she beats it.
27:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dude, and like I could feel for her family in that situation, I could not imagine being in either side shoot, the Estabanias or the parents or the family, you know, family because in opera, Estabanias, I couldn't imagine being convinced and or seeing
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: things moving around in your dwelling and then then calling your name.
28:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the same time, if you're on the outside looking in and you're not seeing these things, you're not hearing these things.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you're highly questioning your daughter's sanity.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because you want to believe
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But you can understand somebody's complexion because they're not experiencing it.
28:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not living it like you are.
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanna imagine day to day they're gonna be back and forth on if this is really happening or if it's some type of psychosis.
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Now for me, not that, oh God, I never want this to happen, but I could tell you if,
29:14
[SPEAKER_01]: my daughter suffered that same fate, I would be a hundred percent convinced as a parent that something paranormal happened if they just went into a coma in the past way.
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially after you had taken them to doctor after doctor after doctor after doctor and they're like, we don't know what's happening.
29:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what's happened.
29:36
[SPEAKER_00]: All your scans look good.
29:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything looks good.
29:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what's happening.
29:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she falls into a
29:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, do you think do you think enough stress could do that to somebody?
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's just say, probably, and I'm not saying that this is the case.
29:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's just say, what she was going through was more self delusion than anything but because she believed it so much, it created this large stress.
30:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:14
[SPEAKER_00]: and we're just compound on top of itself, especially once she thinks she's sick.
30:21
[SPEAKER_00]: then go into all of these doctor's appointments and you know go to the doctor sucks anyway but especially when you're young and you have something wrong with you that you don't you can't pinpoint they can't help there's no relief from it I imagine that could that would compound really fucking cool yeah yeah and then on top of that you know hearing these things and seeing these things and all this like psychosis that's coming with it and nobody
30:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that nobody believes you, but almost like nobody believes you, you know, because I feel like the family did all they could to veer away from this being a paranormal experience, you know, they tried to find rational explanations as anybody would.
31:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, anybody would.
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: First thing you're going to do is you're going to go to your doctor.
31:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
31:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's pinpoint this and get
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: because they did, like I said, they did everything.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: They went to neurologists.
31:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They went to psychologists in there.
31:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, as she's pretty normal for teenage girl, we don't know what the fuck is going on.
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
31:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You amount of heartbreak that family must have went through.
31:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: In that moment.
31:31
[SPEAKER_01]: for it for not that moment the whole time because I couldn't imagine having my daughter go through this yeah it's sad somebody that didn't deserve any part of it yeah it's she didn't and sure a lot of people could have no sympathy because she dabbled with the fucking weegee board who hasn't
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And by all accounts, everything that I saw, like she was a very personal caretaker, holders like the oldest sibling, she was all constantly hanging out with their younger siblings, taking care of them, making sure everything was square.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was makes you mad.
32:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: That something would happen to someone so innocent and, you know, peer, so to speak.
32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something like this could happen.
32:20
[SPEAKER_00]: The death certificate records note the cause as respiratory failure.
32:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, the mechanism by which the body sustains itself stops the staining itself.
32:33
[SPEAKER_00]: respiratory failure is a description of what happened basically at the very end of her life not necessarily what caused up to that point you know you know what I'm saying right respiratory failure ended her life but what caused her to get to that point the forensic examination documented physical findings described in the pathologist uh language as referenced in investigative accounts as quote inconsistent with any
33:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The degree of physical deterioration present in the body was inconsistent with what any known illness is, progressing from a healthy baseline over six months, progressing or decreasing, I should say, from a healthy baseline over six months.
33:19
[SPEAKER_00]: The burn marks documented throughout her illness were still present at the time of the examination.
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They had not healed in a pattern expected of standard burn injuries.
33:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
33:29
[SPEAKER_00]: not even like even the burn marks weren't healing correctly.
33:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So her body was definitely not functioning the way it should have.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Multiple family accounts describe a period in Estefania's final hours during which she appeared to fully return to herself.
33:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Cohirit present and knowing the people around her.
33:49
[SPEAKER_00]: She asked for her mother, she held her father's hand, the voice that had been documented throughout the preceding months was absent.
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: She came back to herself or this is a quote from her dad.
33:59
[SPEAKER_00]: quote, she came back to herself at the end.
34:01
[SPEAKER_00]: In the last hour, she knew us again.
34:03
[SPEAKER_00]: She asked for her mother.
34:04
[SPEAKER_00]: She held my hand.
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever had been using her had left.
34:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But, or, and she was there, but there was not enough of her left, which is sad.
34:15
[SPEAKER_01]: As terrible, what's our breaking?
34:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Just to have her come back to normal right before she fell into the coma where you're thinking like hey we did it we got this beat and then this thing's like Well, what do we know anything about the Ouija board All that I could find was
34:42
[SPEAKER_00]: The girl, one of the friends made a makeshift Ouija board.
34:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like a homemade version she'd put together to try to contact this boyfriend that had passed away.
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't say like what they made it out of.
34:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I ever anything like that.
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It just said, because I had to been relatively fragile if the teacher touched it and it just fucking broke.
35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably just something she drew in a piece of paper I'm assuming because I mean teenagers They're not going to super all out and they try to sneak it into school.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah gotta be something you can conceal I get almost it almost it's almost like whatever came out not only was demonic in nature but also like a like a fucking
35:33
[SPEAKER_01]: fungus or a mold or something to that effect because she ends up passing away from respiratory failure, which she breathed.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: She was breathing the weirds.
35:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Normally, the passing way, Vestifania would represent the end of the haunting, but this is just the beginning of the next chapter of the Viacca's case.
36:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever had been haunting, Estifania focused on the rest of the family at this point.
36:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Within days of her funeral, strange knocking noises were heard coming from her bedroom.
36:10
[SPEAKER_00]: When concepts Yon went in to see what was causing the sounds she saw all of her deceased daughter's belongings strewn all about the room.
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Later that night an old man's laughter was heard echoing through the hallway of the home.
36:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Temperatures would fluctuate drastically from room to room.
36:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Strange disembodied voices will be heard coming from the bathroom.
36:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Maximo reported that once he was in the floor playing with his younger son, with his youngest son, when an unseen force lifted the child up and threw him across the room.
36:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Once the family were sitting in the living room, something blew the door open from the hallway, and a barrage of bangs and knocks started pounding on the living room walls.
36:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Terrified, maximum, and conception closed the door, barricaded it with a sofa and a marble statue, hoping that it would stop whatever was going on.
36:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, this did nothing, because something, again, blew the door open, throwing the furniture, and the family members across the room.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: At that point, the fandom gust of wind blew a picture of Estophania into the room.
37:15
[SPEAKER_00]: When concepts he owned picked it up, she screamed because the photo had burst into flames right down the center, burning the photo, believing the frame untouched.
37:25
[SPEAKER_00]: if it's just a picture of her face and it's burnt right now through the center.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: See in the the old man laughing makes me think of the grandpa again.
37:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's weird how they how the it could when you lean one way it weaves itself back it could be evil spirit.
37:42
[SPEAKER_01]: creating chaos too though.
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't necessarily mean that it is him or maybe homeboy had a darker past than whatever but realized.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know man.
37:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like at that point, I would like to think that I would be ready for war.
38:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be standing there screaming in yelling like come on, bitch, let's dance.
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe whatever had infested the grandfather was just waiting because he said I can't I couldn't hurt you in this life I'll hurt you from the next yeah was just waiting for something to be an opening
38:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I will cut a portal just like said it off.
38:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it was like, do you think it was grandpa or do you think it was something and have it in grandpa?
38:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I feel like it's probably something greater than grandpa.
38:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably.
38:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he probably has something bad inside of him and it was just waiting.
38:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because there are people who are notorious for having skeletons in the closet, you know, he could have been a terrible person.
39:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
39:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.
39:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like there's not a lot set about him, but aside from that, he suffered from dementia and they were his caretaker.
39:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Hell, maybe maybe the dementia was an onset from the entity.
39:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the dementia was the doorway for the entity.
39:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, could be.
39:21
[SPEAKER_01]: you know could be and maybe the statement of I might not be able to hurt you in this life maybe it was because the infestation knew that this body was passing you know and it was weak just waiting for that opening home.
39:38
[SPEAKER_00]: As the months pass, the activity ramped up, doors would slam shut on their own.
39:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Electrical appliances would turn on and turn on on their own.
39:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And the family began seeing the strange shadow figures that Estophania had seen crawling over their furniture and all over their beds.
39:54
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the younger daughters reported seeing a humanoid shadow figure stuck to the floor, trying all it could to drag itself closer to the family.
40:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine that realization.
40:04
[SPEAKER_00]: like she was right.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't crazy.
40:08
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, you want to talk about psychological warfare because I can almost promise you that there was a huge section of the parents that thought their daughter was going crazy.
40:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
40:21
[SPEAKER_00]: and then not no more like you took it to a psychiatrist you thought that this was in her head yeah I know that it's not that is so fucking sad that's so evil
40:37
[SPEAKER_01]: that would that I think is a grown man that would break me yeah because I know I know even where I'm at now in life I know that there would be a huge section of my brain that wouldn't have believed oh yeah you know and then here you are seeing what she described
41:03
[SPEAKER_00]: right there.
41:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that the youngest daughter reported what she saw, the the shadow figure being essentially stuck to the floor, and it like purposefully dragging itself toward her, terrifying.
41:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And it, it almost, it's almost like a psychological warfare there, because when you described that,
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is weird that you said that because the way you described it as being stuck and it was like just trying yeah to move It's funny that you said that because all right Where we at conception reported having her hands and feet pinned down by a shadow figure why she was in bed
41:50
[SPEAKER_00]: From approximately November of 91, multiple family members reported observing an apparition or multiple apparitions in the apartment.
41:57
[SPEAKER_00]: The descriptions given independently over many years were consistent.
42:00
[SPEAKER_00]: A dark, human-shaped figure, approximately adult height, with no discernible facial features, observed most frequently in the hallway or corridor near Estefanio's room.
42:11
[SPEAKER_00]: The figure moved with what witnesses described as deliberate purpose rather than drift or float.
42:17
[SPEAKER_00]: most significantly, it responded to being observed, turning toward witnesses as they would watch it.
42:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Concept Sion was reported saying, quote, it was darker than dark around it.
42:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It had a shape, it had a height.
42:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It turned to look at me and I knew or it knew that I could see it.
42:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I said her name as to Fanya because I thought for a moment it might be her, but it was not her.
42:41
[SPEAKER_01]: which is I thought was, I wrote a thing you said it is weird, right at the same time I was going to that point.
42:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It is weird.
42:49
[SPEAKER_00]: In the weeks following Estefania's death, we see something that comes along with a lot of hauntings and poltergeist cases.
42:58
[SPEAKER_00]: fires began to break out in the apartment on four separate occasions for separate callouts produced for separate official reports, all four documented the same finding, no ignition source identified.
43:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever this thing is is now starting fires.
43:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's crazy.
43:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
43:18
[SPEAKER_00]: it's it's wild when you start looking into these poltergeist and position cases how much everything lines up and and it falls into the same categories.
43:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter if it's from it's a case from 1890 or 1990.
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: They still have like the same MO.
43:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
43:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Of the possession like encounters and the fire starting and all all this crazy shit.
43:44
[SPEAKER_00]: The family reported finding another framed photo of Estefania.
43:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, multiple frame photos, I should say, of us to find you crack on multiple occasions.
43:54
[SPEAKER_00]: The crack pattern was radial, emitting from a central point.
43:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It was consistent across each occurrence.
44:02
[SPEAKER_00]: The frame sustained no damage.
44:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The wall behind the photograph sustained no damage.
44:06
[SPEAKER_00]: The crack was inward toward the photograph, whether rather than outward pattern produced by impact on the front.
44:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever it was, almost like was trying to escape from the picture out through the glass.
44:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Religious figures in the home began being strewn about.
44:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Crucifix is wooden up on the floor.
44:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Religious framed pictures would end up crooked on the walls despite being hung straight just minutes before.
44:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Eventually, news of the phenomenon would get out as family members and friends would come over to visit and they would start experiencing it firsthand.
44:39
[SPEAKER_00]: After this, the news would spread quickly, soon involving reporters and news outlets and different media sources.
44:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be noted that the family in no way benefited from this.
44:49
[SPEAKER_00]: They actually found the interest in their plight, very invasive, where they were all trying to deal with the loss of their daughter and everything that was going on.
44:59
[SPEAKER_00]: more and more people were showing up, trying to experience the haunting.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's start into a fucking side show.
45:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:08
[SPEAKER_00]: On November 27th, 1992, over a little over a year since Estefania's death, the case took a turn that makes it one of the most substantial paranormal cases we've come across.
45:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That night after the disturbance escalated so badly, Maximo did the only thing he could think of to try to help his family.
45:24
[SPEAKER_00]: He called the police.
45:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Stating that his family was in danger, the police initially didn't believe him, but then he passed the phone to each member of his family, with each of them telling the police that strange dark figures were roaming throughout the house, and then all the crucifixes in the house would flip upside down and then right side up again.
45:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly noticing this distress in the family's call, officer Jose Negry decided to respond to the call with three other officers.
45:51
[SPEAKER_00]: The officers from the National Police arrived around at the home at 2am, despite the night being exceptionally chilly, they found the entire family huddled around each other at the curb at the end of the driveway, busively shaken.
46:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So they didn't knew they weren't even in the house at that point.
46:06
[SPEAKER_00]: The family then led the officers into the apartment, where they sat around the table and began describing the events that had been going on.
46:14
[SPEAKER_00]: As they were there, strange things began happening.
46:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a quote directly from Officer Negry.
46:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We found ourselves in a rare mysterious situation.
46:23
[SPEAKER_00]: As we were seated with the family, we could hear and observe perfectly closed cabinet doors suddenly open in an unnatural way.
46:29
[SPEAKER_00]: This initiated a series of suspicious events witnessed by the chief inspector and all three officers present.
46:35
[SPEAKER_00]: While still in a state of shock, a powerful noise came from the terrace, where we confirmed that no one was present.
46:41
[SPEAKER_00]: A suspicious, or the suspicious events, then increased in quantity and severity, taking the investigation to an unexpected level.
46:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Moments later, a strange brown stain appeared on a tablecloth of a small telephone table.
46:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Our chief inspector identified this as some sort
47:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it makes you feel like there's a monster in there.
47:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It does.
47:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It does.
47:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the first time, like, maybe it's blood, but he's like, it was identified as drool, which I don't know how, I mean, I guess you, you can look at it, touch it and be like, yeah, that's probably slobber.
47:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That's gross.
47:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That's disgusting.
47:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:19
[SPEAKER_00]: During our search of the rooms in the home, we observed the phenomena we had been referencing, who wouldn't crucifix rotated upside down and was ripped off the wall.
47:29
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the daughters picked the crucifix up from the floor and attached it behind the door of the room that we were in.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: As soon as she attached it to the wall, strangely, three scratches appeared directly next to it in the wall.
47:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Another officer, Inspector Juan Manuel Martinez Fernandez of the Madrid National Police Corps attended also that night.
47:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He was an experienced officer with no documented interest in or sympathy toward paranormal claims.
47:56
[SPEAKER_00]: He attended as a professional in the performance of his duty.
47:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He filed an official report after the visit.
48:02
[SPEAKER_00]: These are some of the things that was documented in the report, a figurine, a ceramic figurine on a shelf slid horizontally approximately 10 to 15 cm while Fernandez was directly observing it.
48:14
[SPEAKER_00]: All other persons in the room were in his direct field division at the time.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: No one was near the shelf, his documentation stated, I observed this directly and I cannot account for it.
48:27
[SPEAKER_00]: A cabinet door in the same room opened fully and slowly while he was facing it.
48:31
[SPEAKER_00]: No person near it, no windows or the windows were all closed, no air movement was present.
48:36
[SPEAKER_00]: He examined the cabinet and found no mechanical explanation for the independent opening.
48:42
[SPEAKER_00]: The room temperature drops suddenly and sharply within approximately 30 seconds.
48:45
[SPEAKER_00]: He could see his breath.
48:47
[SPEAKER_00]: He verified that the windows were closed and checked the thermostat.
48:50
[SPEAKER_00]: No explanations found.
48:52
[SPEAKER_00]: A dark, human-shaped form in the corridor facing him, not identifiable as any person present in the apartment, disappeared before he could reach it, with no available exit route in the time elapsed.
49:04
[SPEAKER_00]: His documentation, quote, dark in a hallway that went beyond poor lighting.
49:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot provide a rational explanation for what I observed in that apartment.
49:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I am documenting it fully because I believe the family is experiencing genuine events that fall outside my professional capacity to address them.
49:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I am not returning to this address.
49:24
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, I am not going to fuck back there.
49:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't blame him.
49:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't be going back either.
49:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, imagine being a cop.
49:35
[SPEAKER_01]: and you've never believed in the paranormal or anything like that, but you're a cop.
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So you got to make like kind of like, when you enter the room, you're like, I'm the man.
49:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to fix the problem.
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I got this.
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you go in there and you're like, what?
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You're so far out of your element that you don't know.
49:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't even know what to do now.
49:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, once you start moving in that crucifix flipped upside down, I'm like, Oh,
49:58
[SPEAKER_01]: This is different.
50:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I believe we might be out of our depth here, but yeah, we're out of our out of our element.
50:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have no holy water or anything like that outside our main going to do nothing.
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody flipping Jesus, the swing of my taser around trying to catch something in the neck.
50:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Officers Negray and Negray and Fernandez could find no explanations for what the family was experiencing.
50:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Could offer them no real help as to what they were experiencing.
50:31
[SPEAKER_00]: All they could do is file a report to the archives making this one of if not the first paranormal case that has a legitimate police report backing it.
50:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be noted that official police reports are formal institutional documents subject to review by supervising officers and part of the permanent public record filing a false or substantially inaccurate police report carries professional consequences.
50:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So these guys were putting their neck out while they never said they never used the term haunting.
51:01
[SPEAKER_00]: They did say inexplicable and unexplainable.
51:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So would you smart?
51:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but they are acknowledged and it is on record.
51:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Fernandez had no identifyable motivation to include what he included.
51:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Documenting paranormal events in an official report does not advance a police officer's career.
51:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It creates professional risk.
51:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He had every institutional incentive to file a routine report, but he did not.
51:29
[SPEAKER_00]: He made sure that he stated all of the weird things that we're going on.
51:34
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... his refusal to return police officers whose job requires him to return to difficult situations who refuses to return to the specific address is not an officer who thought it was briefly unsettled by grieving family he is an officer who encountered something that altered his professional behavior permanently so normally please follow up with these things he said i can not go back there
51:59
[SPEAKER_00]: In 1993, after never-finding peace or resolution, as to what was haunting them, the Gutierrez family sold their apartment and moved away.
52:06
[SPEAKER_00]: The case was featured in quite a few books published in the late 90s around Spain, and his paranormal reality TV came about in the early 2000s, the family was interviewed a few times, however, no more paranormal activity happened to them since leaving the apartment.
52:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So it also makes you wonder if maybe it was just tied to that space where Stefania was as opposed to being tied to the family.
52:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
52:32
[SPEAKER_00]: However, interest in the Viacca's case would skyrocket in 2017 when the Netflix film Veronica based around Stefania came out and it exposed millions
52:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Although highly dramatized it shed new light on the case, which made it surround in YouTube videos and podcasts throughout the paranormal world, then, in 2018, Swergeslull Muddy.
53:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Two of Estefania's little younger brothers, Ricardo and Max Amanio came forward on Spanish television to said that they had faked some of the paranormal occurrences in order to validate their grieving mother's beliefs and attract media attention by, quote, dropping marbles, throwing pebbles at a wall and rigging cabinet doors to open.
53:20
[SPEAKER_00]: They claimed they set up the events before the police came that night to frighten the officers.
53:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, this doesn't account for the heavy furniture being flung about the home, religious iconography moving on its own.
53:32
[SPEAKER_00]: The photo of Estefania burning within its frame, and even more so, Estefania's unexplainable death.
53:38
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people believe that the brothers were paid off by someone higher up in
53:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever government, however, to discredit this case because it was gaining so much traction in 2017 after the Netflix movie came out.
53:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That actually makes sense.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
53:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Because even let's like even if they did it out of their own right.
54:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter, like your statement right now is irrelevant because you're only able to pull off some of it.
54:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest of it still stands true, so regardless of your shenanigans, there's still paranormal shit going on.
54:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, like you dropping some marbles does not account for the crucifix flipping upside down and flying off the wall.
54:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
54:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
54:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And almost, yeah, it's weird.
54:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Strange.
54:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It is fucking strange.
54:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a terrible situation for what seems to be a very good family.
54:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And I heart breaks for Estebania.
54:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that poor girl was literally just almost wrong place for a long time.
54:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And she had a psychopath grandpa.
54:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And it makes you like, if they fake that why did they wait so long?
54:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Why did they wait almost?
54:55
[SPEAKER_00]: 30 years to come out.
54:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Just so happened right after the movie drops.
55:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I like, yeah, we did this.
55:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
55:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah, then 2025, a three-part HBO special came out called the Viacca's files.
55:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't watched it yet, but I did see some reviews on it.
55:12
[SPEAKER_00]: It interviews some of the family members who visited during the haunting that experience some of the stuff themselves.
55:22
[SPEAKER_00]: If I get some time I'm going to watch it because I feel like it would shed some more light on the case, but I don't know, that's what I got.
55:28
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you guys think?
55:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Curse by the grandfather.
55:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it was an attachment from the Ouija board?
55:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You think it was kind of a double whammy, they're both out of there.
55:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
55:42
[SPEAKER_01]: If I had to put it, if I had to put it,
55:44
[SPEAKER_00]: That was weird.
55:45
[SPEAKER_00]: That was weird.
55:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I had to put money, I would say that Grandpa had something, and it chased for whatever reason.
56:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like he sent it to her.
56:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It literally says, if I can't hurt you in this one, I'll do it in the next.
56:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they did the Ouija board with pure intent to talk to the boyfriend who just was deceased, but immediately, it's taking over and it just does its thing.
56:34
[SPEAKER_01]: like that as far as we know it's unprompted you know and it depending on the time frame there that's to find you might have completely forgot about Grandpa or maybe like her mind didn't even link the two between Grandpa's threat and the Ouija you know what I mean yeah because you could you could understand somebody being curious and being like well I'm going to Ouija board this shit yada yada yada yada
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that a 16 year old does that unless she was kind of raising that or she had a bunch of friends that were like, oh, this is which or which crap is cool, you know, but I feel like I feel like based in the information we have.
57:14
[SPEAKER_01]: for whatever reason this thing wanted as to find you.
57:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's it's also should be noted that it like it's strange because as to funny, it wasn't even the one that that initiated the Ouija board contact.
57:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
57:27
[SPEAKER_00]: She was just a bystander that just happened to be hanging out with her friends, you know, uh, just being a kid.
57:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, you know, hey, I made this Ouija board.
57:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to contact my ex-boyfriend?
57:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, let's do it.
57:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's weird, it's just weird.
57:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It's bizarre that, and then the absolute ass-in-ine turnover events, like what would the odds be that this fucking Ouija board just falls apart?
57:58
[SPEAKER_01]: and some weird smoke comes out and as to like it goes right into her.
58:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Boom.
58:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So whatever it was, something wanted her for whatever reason.
58:10
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
58:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Now this was old world.
58:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I would assume, well, maybe somebody in the lineage decided to do some fucking magic and give up.
58:21
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the first boards or something to that nature, or the passing of our curse.
58:28
[SPEAKER_01]: The beings that this isn't, this isn't exactly old world, it makes it a little more interesting.
58:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to say that people don't dabble, but I think,
58:40
[SPEAKER_01]: There may be some more truth uncovered if we knew more about Grandpa's past.
58:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which they might, they may go into that in the HBO special.
58:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, it's three parts called the Viacca's files.
58:52
[SPEAKER_00]: If anybody's checked it out, hit us up in the comments.
58:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's try to go back and, or I'm going to try to go and watch it.
58:59
[SPEAKER_00]: because if it does shed some light on maybe, I don't know, you can't almost can't even assume as to whether or not he was into dabble in that shit or not, you know?
59:10
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you really can't, but it is that's
59:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It could have just manifested inside of him if he was really that hateful and had that must just Yeah, that much disdain toward the family.
59:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the the the the mention might have been a doorway too.
59:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know Yeah, but we do know though hollow cold.
59:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It was definitely a tragedy and that tragedy was compounded by grief and belief and suggestion of belief and
59:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's centrally just compounded on a young woman's life and also her family's life, which set off a chain of events that you just heard, so let's know what you think about in the comments.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've looked into this case and have any more information, hit us up, you know, to go.
1:00:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks ringing out with us on this Monday.
1:00:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for choosing us to get you through your work week.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_00]: On that note, check us out on our socials.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Stay safe, stay weird, and, I don't know, man.
1:00:21
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a grandpa's angry and trying to pass a generational curse down on you, maybe stay away from those Norwegian boys.
1:00:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that it was her fault, but still.
1:00:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Stay safe.