Latest / The QuadCast / S7 E5 - Attitude Is Everything, Featuring Ian Mackay
Transcript
- John McAleavey: And just like that, another episode is in the books. I think you'll all agree with me that Ian McKay is the guy. Be sure to check back soon as new episodes of the QP will be headed your way. Until then, I'm John McAleavy and I thank you for your time. Ian McKay, welcome to the Quadcast, my friend. Ian Mackay: Thank you, John. Really happy to be here. Thank you for having John McAleavey: Yeah, we kicked around some dates and times and we were able to pull it together today and I actually just spoke with a friend of yours a week or two ago, Kenny Salvini. Ian Mackay: Yeah, one of my besties. John McAleavey: Yeah, what a super guy and I told him I was going to talk to you and he said, alright, have a great show. And so ⁓ usually what I like to do with my shows is to begin at the beginning. So why don't if you could tell us here, where did you grow up and what were some things that you were interested in in your youth? Ian Mackay: Alright, so we're going way back. ⁓ So I grew up in San Diego County El Cajon was the town and you know, I don't know I was in a smaller little town within El Cajon and I used to love riding my bike all around. I loved finding snakes and lizards and tarantulas and you know I just love being out riding around rolling around and being part of the community. I got a go-kart. when I was like my 12 or 13 year and that was really fun to go cruise around. But yeah, it was a really, it was really good youth. John McAleavey: Yeah, I mean, what would we have done with the cell phones and tablets that people have? I mean, we would have we wouldn't have been finding sticks and snakes and throwing rocks. Ian Mackay: It's an interesting generation because of that, right? I mean, we just didn't have exposure to that. And yeah, the lives of the youth these days are so much different than that. John McAleavey: ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. And funny, I can remember seeing one of the last specials that George Carlin did. He did a whole riff on, you know, people, families now doing ⁓ play dates. He said, what the heck is a play date? And he got to set things up. He said, when was the last time kids went outside and played with a stick? He says, I think they they've outlawed sticks in the world now. They're not allowed to play with them. Ian Mackay: hear you. It's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. John McAleavey: ⁓ man, it is unfortunate. Yeah, well that's cool. You got to do a lot of that stuff. We were talking before I hit record here about ⁓ living in San Diego and I told you that I had a couple of really great experiences there. The weather and whatnot was so conducive to be outside, right? Ian Mackay: for sure, you know, and I live now up in Port Angeles, Washington, and it's, you know, quite a bit quite a bit different. but it was it was it was nice. I mean, in East County, San Diego would get hot, right? And so 100 degrees wasn't unusual. And yeah, we're we're in a different different space these days. But it was perfect for for getting out, getting to explore. And yeah, really great memories of my childhood. John McAleavey: Sure, sure. Now as you're getting a bit older and ⁓ moving along ⁓ your teen years and you get into college, I understand ⁓ you were pretty diversified when you got into the whole college scene. Tell us first of all, where was the first school that you attended and what did you study in particular there? Ian Mackay: Yeah, so really right at a high school, my mom and brother moved up to Santa Barbara and I ended up renting the house that we were living in. And so 18, I had my own space and I said, okay, I was working. I'm like, I'm also going to try to go to college. I was thinking like business is what I would do. And I remember taking a couple of classes and quickly realized at 18 working and wanting to have a, you know, enjoyable. enjoyable time after high school, just couldn't keep up with it all. And so I didn't make it through very long. There eventually, though, after a couple of years, just having fun with with friends and working, I moved up to Santa Barbara where my mom and family kind of had moved. And I did start going to school there, too. And I started as a business major ⁓ at Santa Barbara City College. John McAleavey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ian Mackay: You know, I was thinking, you know, it's probably where I could make the most money. It might be the most lucrative option. so I went into that and a lot of communication classes were required for that, that major. And so I started to take communication classes and, John quickly, I found that that's where the girls were. The girls were all in these communication classes. And so I switched majors and, kind of moved over over to that space. But, while pursuing, while pursuing that, took a John McAleavey: Hehehehe Yeah. Ian Mackay: a field botany course. And, you know, they brought us, they did it brought us out to the Mojave and just different places around around San Diego County. here we were, we were being introduced to, I don't know, more of the flora and I don't know, the natural world that we were doing in a group setting. And we were with like-minded individuals and the teacher was fun and charming. And, and I really, really enjoyed that. And so I kind of then John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Ian Mackay: I ended up meeting a girl. moved together up to ⁓ Santa Cruz. And that's where I went to school at Cabrillo college for quite a while at community college and really dove deep into the biology world and ⁓ eventually transferred to UC Santa Cruz. And ⁓ I got a job in the lab there for the plant biology lab. And yeah, it was kind of, it was kind of like my life at that time. I was Getting involved in bike touring. So where you could take a bike and like cross the state. It was pretty charming and fun to just kind of see that you'll see the world at a slower pace. I was mainly kind of more of a road crew. I was driving a 1978 Volkswagen West Falia and it was a was a fun support vehicle. And so I would often John McAleavey: ⁓ wow. Ian Mackay: You know, pick up the beer and go set up the campsite and meet everybody at the end of the day. Yeah. And then you're out all with, but I never really got to join them. And it was an experience I really wanted to have. And then unfortunately in 2008, I broke my neck. John McAleavey: the important jobs. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yes. Well, just to get back to the VW stuff, the first car I drove was a 1975 yellow punch buggy Volkswagen Beetle. Yeah, it was great. My friends used to, because the emergency brake never worked on it and nobody locked their cars back then, I would pull over to like a friend's house and... Ian Mackay: Yeah. John McAleavey: By the time I would come out at the end of the night, my car would be gone and my buddies would push it up on the neighbor's lawn or something like that. It was always something crazy about that. yeah, and I see that you've had numerous hobbies. You're into table tennis and craft beer, nature photography, bluegrass music, and of course, cycling. That's a pretty cool list. Tell me about some of those. Ian Mackay: sure. ⁓ I was I was brewing at the time and so I really did love my my craft beer. I'm getting outside as much as possible. We live close to Big Sur there in Santa Cruz and so spent a lot of time a lot of time there. ⁓ The table tennis I don't know always really enjoyed playing ping pong with my grandfather and and one of my my college chemistry professor we became really close friends but John McAleavey: Okay. Yeah. Ian Mackay: He was also a table tennis player and he put on little, um, little tournaments. And so we started playing and I, I managed to win a cup. Oh, you know, it was a challenge. That was a challenge that we did like one every year. And he required the following year that the winner from the previous year, um, you know, drink a beer after every, after every game. And everyone had to do this except my glass was a lot bigger than. John McAleavey: All right. Yeah. Was there any beer pong involved? Did you combine the craft beer with that? Hehehehehe Ian Mackay: everyone else is and by the end I could barely you know see the ball coming at me but but it made for a lot of fun and we developed really strong relationship and actually that's who I am sort of going on those bike tours bike tours with and yeah I mean I lived you know in downtown Santa Cruz at the time I was riding my bike to to school I mean it had a really cool setup you see Santa Cruz is up on this hill and ⁓ and you could John McAleavey: You had a stein! Awesome. Mm-hmm. Ian Mackay: You could catch ⁓ a shuttle from the downtown Santa Cruz and get your bike shuttled up to the top and you do your day in class and then you get to ride down this hill at end of the day. That was always a really fun experience. John McAleavey: Right. Nice. Look forward to that every day, right? So that's, us, talk to us about June 4, 2008. We all have our day. What do you remember before, during, and after the cycling accident that changed the direction of your life? Ian Mackay: ⁓ yeah. Sure, well, mean, a good segue because I just mentioned we know we got to ride our bike down that hill every day. you know, I found I had a little bike computer and, it was fun to just see how fast you can get down and see how high of a speed you get to the fastest I'd ever got was 42 miles per hour going down this hill. was a little little hype. John McAleavey: You did? Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, now what kind of a biker you want? You want a mountain biker? Ian Mackay: little hybrid little hybrid bike and yeah I got it from my grad student that was leaving the lab when I was sort of working there and but yeah on on on that date I was I was going about 38 39 miles per hour and there was some sand in the pathway I hit the sand and went headfirst into a tree you know I John McAleavey: Okay. ⁓ Okay. Mmm. Yikes. Ian Mackay: I remember hitting that sand. I remember realizing, ⁓ no, what's going on. And I, I, I'm sure I passed out for a moment, but I remember looking up through the bows of, ⁓ of this tree, realizing I couldn't feel kind of anything, ⁓ you know, below my chest and I couldn't move anything below my, below my chest. And there was this gal that was walking up the path and I asked her she could reach out to nine one one and campus police showed up. Ambulances got there. They altered. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ian Mackay: ultimately got me in an ambulance and then to a life flight where they brought me to Santa Clara Valley Medical Center in San Jose in California. And, that's where I spent the next three months, you know, kind of learning how to live as a, as a paralyzed man and John is so many folks, know, who have, have dealt with brows this year. John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. Ian Mackay: you wake up and you know all of a sudden the reality starts hitting it's like okay what what does my future look like now i mean you have these dreams you have these aspirations that you think you're going to school and you're like okay what's my career going to be you're developing these great relationships and ⁓ you know all the joy that you had found you're like okay how can i how can i continue that John McAleavey: Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, it just drains out of your body, right? Ian Mackay: It does it doesn't I was really fortunate that both mom my parents were divorced but they both showed up at that hospital and they stayed with me for the next three months and if I didn't have that kind of support and I don't know where I'd be but you know trying to deal with something like that alone is is just unimaginable and so I'm John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. You know, Ian, I work today. I work two days a week at Kessler Institute for Rehabilitation up here. ⁓ That's, I don't know if you've heard of it, that's where Chris Reeve did his rehab and where I did mine 34 years ago. And I'm the peer mentoring coordinator. So it's my job to go around and I try and match newly injured folks with people that have been around the block, sort of like myself. We have a roster of people that have been through there and are back out in the community. They're married, they're having families, they're working, they're really thriving. And I see some folks in their in their hospital rooms that are completely by themselves and I don't know how they do it. It's, it's my heart really goes out to them. Ian Mackay: higher level paralysis you have is just the more information you need to take in. And, you know, and when you're dealing with such emotional trauma and so many other challenges and you're trying to take in all this information on how to live as a, you know, was a vent dependent, you know, quadriplegic and I could, I could barely, you know, manage my own feelings other than, you know, really digest all this information on how to live. John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ian Mackay: successfully and not be stuck in a skilled nursing facility or something. John McAleavey: Yeah, so what did the doctors initially tell you? Did you have surgery? What was the ⁓ after you got medevaced out? Ian Mackay: sure. So I got there and you know, at the time I could I could move my arms a little bit and and so what I remember laying there and recalling my my mom down in Santa Barbara telling what's going on and she you know immediately drove up but what they did was they took a safety pin and he started kind of down by my belly button and sort of poking you know poking my my stomach to go can you feel this right? John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. yep. Ian Mackay: And I said no, and they'd move up an inch or two. Could you feel this? No. And eventually, yeah, I can feel that. And they take a sharpie and they make a line right there at that spot. They'd wait 30 minutes and start doing it again, you know, and they then move up an inch or two from that last line. And no, I can't feel. And so when I could, they'd make another John McAleavey: Yeah. Ian Mackay: line that line kept moving up and it got to the point where I wasn't going to be able to breathe, you know, much, much longer. And so they intubated me. Um, and, know, I don't remember much probably for the next day or two. I remember then waking up, um, on something called a roto rest and a, and a roto rest is a, is a bed that it's almost like a hammock in the way it just swings you back and forth a little bit slower. it John McAleavey: Okay. Sure. Ian Mackay: It's something just to keep the fluid in your lungs from not overwhelming you and keep pressure down. ⁓ but it was something where it's like, just could not stop moving. And I just wanted to be like, sit on the ground. I'm on so many drugs and everything is so new and, I can't speak. And, you know, I, I do have my, family there, but, know, that was the only, you know, only bright side of, of, of that, that moment. John McAleavey: Right? Mm. Yeah, yeah. Tell us about the the vent side of it all. I mean, I see folks now ⁓ that that are vent dependent and they probably will be forever. I don't know. Listen, I have my own issues. have all the. all the fun that comes along with being a C3-4 quad and so I have my crosses to bear but the ventilator, I don't know if that's something that I would be able to do. So tell us a little bit about that because it's a harrowing experience. Ian Mackay: Sure, and so, you know, eventually they tell me I'm a suit C2 complete and I will be on a ventilator for, you know, for life, most likely. And, you know, there's something called a cuff, you know, when you finally do get trach and I got the intubation tube out of my mouth and that cuff prevents you from speaking, but, you know, it keeps the air going in and out without coming out your mouth. John McAleavey: See you soon. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ian Mackay: and i i kept that cuff inflated really for the next year i didn't speak you know people had to read my lips and i had nothing to say john and i just said it to say and you know i just felt so dependent on this machine and you know you've got like these practices of yoga and other things really calm yourself and so much more like breathing exercises it's hard to do that when you have these timed mechanical breasts that are that are coming in but John McAleavey: Hehehe Yeah. Yeah. Ian Mackay: You know, you it's your lifeline at that point and you it's amazing what you can get used to, John. ⁓ John McAleavey: without question. So how long did it take for you to get the ability to breathe again? mean, I, yeah. Ian Mackay: Yeah. So yeah, about a year, about a year after my, my injury, well, I'd been working with an occupational therapist who specialized in myofascial release and you know, can still feel it kind of my neck and you know, part of my shoulders, not a lot of pain there. And, she would work there and she would really relieve a lot of that pain. But one thing she'd also have me do is kind of shrug my shoulders in time with the ventilator breath. And, um, you know, we've been doing this for months and, and one night I'm in bed and my, my dad, John McAleavey: Okay. Mm-hmm. Ian Mackay: you for a year he's sleeping on a futon next to me and I'm just if I need help and and I say dad you know let's we always watch Jeopardy together and to Jeopardy finish I'm like will you take the take the vent off he's like what what are you talking about and I'm like yeah I want to try something and we took that vent off and you know I kind of shrugged my shoulders like I'd been doing working with that therapist and I I took a breath and John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Ian Mackay: You know, I kind of just kept going from there and you know, my diaphragm was building up strength and yeah, eventually it probably took me six months after that before I was really off the vent most of the day. I'm still, I sleep on a ventilator, so I'm still on it for, for eight hours. And it's a, it's a sense of comfort these days. I mean, you put that on and I just want to fall asleep, but, but you know, when, when you're wearing a 24 hours a day, it is a kind of a ball and chain. You know, it's something that, um, John McAleavey: You do, ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Ian Mackay: is a constant worry and you really need someone nearby. You know, if that thing disconnects or stops working, it will be seconds. John McAleavey: Yeah, I always wondered about, I always wondered what people do like if the power goes out, like do you have to have a generator in your house? I mean that would freak me out. ⁓ Ian Mackay: Yeah, battery backup generators and yeah, you just start wrapping your head around everything you can that ⁓ is going to keep you alive John McAleavey: Yeah, stuff that could go wrong. You alluded to ⁓ the mental aspect of all of this and coming to grips with it. I know people don't realize, they see that these injuries rob so much from us physically. They see you in a chair, they see me now using a rollator and having a hard time getting food up to my face and getting dressed and all of that. But what they don't realize is what these... injuries due to us mentally. mean, they can just really strip it down to the, take it down to the wood, you know? And so tell us how did you, you know, start to come to grips with all this? How long did it take you to kind of find your way out of the desert, if you will, and back into sort of the land of the living again? Ian Mackay: yeah well you know like i alluded to first i mean here he i was twenty six years old and you know you're you're at that point you're a big big plans for your future and your life and relationships and it's like okay all of that is just slip through my fingers and i don't know i don't know what to what to do and then there's this aspect where you need help with with everything and John McAleavey: Yeah. Ian Mackay: You know, mean, after months of having to wake up my father or my mother when they are just exhausted from helping me and, and here they are, they have to help me use a suction machine to clear my airway or. or whatever and you know that really starts to grind on you and you know sure you know they they love you and they're do anything for you but but but having to ask that of your loved ones over and over I mean it really starts starts grinding on you and thinking you know I mean what am I doing and how am I putting my my family through this and how it impacts so much more than the individual when you when you have a high level spinal cord injury i mean your friends your community your family i everyone is ⁓ is affected and you're really calling on all of your people for for all the help you can get because and yeah and how long it took until i felt okay asking for help but it was it was ⁓ it was a mental it was a John McAleavey: Yeah. Jiu Jitsu. Ian Mackay: Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, the emotions, the thoughts, and of course, you know, you're even thinking, do I want a life like this? Do I want a future like, like this? But then you're thinking, okay, all I can do is move above my neck. How would I even, how would I even choose to end this? Right? You know, that's a morbid thought, but it's certainly something that goes through your mind. And, know, it may not be just because of you imagining a life living like this, but John McAleavey: Right? Yeah, yeah. Ian Mackay: imagining your family's lives, know, having you. John McAleavey: Right, yeah, it's sort of that gallows humor. I know I joke around with some of my fellow quads and they're like, you know, we couldn't harm ourselves even if we tried to. I mean, I use this thing called a rocker knife because as you can see, like my hands here, I'm just fists and this is about as high as I can lift my arms. I can't get them up. So to cut food, I have this knife. It's not sharp and you have to like rock back and forth. And I was used to joke with my OTs, like I'm gonna be the serial killer with the rocker knife, but I'm gonna have to tell the person, okay, you have to lay over here and let me do this across your neck like 6,000 times. ⁓ gosh, this is crazy. Ian Mackay: It is the things that are going through your head I mean in those dark dark times and I Be lying if I don't admit it John McAleavey: Of course. Absolutely. Yeah. So what was it, Ian, that that was it? Was it the lore of of your old life? I know that bicycling really has become, excuse me, a focal point for you. Was it the fact that you were able to get back out on a bike and you I read somewhere where the cell phone, something as small as a cell phone was sort of like the light bulb that went off. We're like, all right, I have the cell phone now. So if I find myself in in a pickle here I can make a call and someone can help me but I can be back out on my own again and sort of like live in my life again. Was that sort of how it all came together? Ian Mackay: Yeah, kind of. So first, you know, you get off the ventilator and then all of a sudden, you know, you no longer have to be quite so tethered to someone else. You know, get a little more independent, little more freedom. And and what really so when I was in the hospital, they had a couple individuals come in to do some peer support. And, you know, at that time, it was just too early. I'm like, you guys couldn't understand what I've lost and what I'm dealing with. John McAleavey: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, get lost, yeah. Yep. Ian Mackay: it was ignorance on my part but but I was just I wasn't willing to you know to recognize that I was them you know and no John McAleavey: You weren't ready? Yeah, I went the same way. I didn't want anybody in my room putting a happy face on it either. Ian Mackay: Yeah, and so about probably 18 months after my my injury I Another quadriplegic came rolling up my ramp at my house that my mom had been communicating with and and organized this visit and and he rules up this ramp and this man is like you know, he's dressed dressed nice and he's like clearly cares about his appearance and John McAleavey: Yeah. Ian Mackay: and he doesn't have a caregiver with him and you know he's you know similar level to me and here I am probably still wearing like a hospital gown just because was challenge putting clothes on and I'm just recently able to really speak you know very well off the ventilator and but I'm talking to this guy and you know he's got a job and he's got a relationship and he has his own home and I mean he's really living and he's happy John McAleavey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ian Mackay: And it made me think, okay, what the heck am I doing? I need to probably start, start living a little bit more. And anyway, that relationship, ⁓ Todd, Todd Stubble felt was that man. He's affectionately known as the quad father. And he, ⁓ he was really involved in kind of tech world. That's where he was working. And, know, mobile technology at that point, I mean, this was, this was in 2010. John McAleavey: Father. Mm-hmm. Ian Mackay: You know, I mean, was was really difficult. There was very few options available to us if we had no to interact with it. And so finally, IOS seven ⁓ Apple's iPhone came out with IOS seven. And with that, there was a feature called Switch Control. Todd became aware of this of this new feature and how this could really open up an avenue, a way for us to really utilize a phone and. John McAleavey: Yeah. Ian Mackay: We kind of dove into the switch control. was life changing. Once I had a phone, a dependable, reliable phone, I could start going just a third of a mile down my street to a trail called the Olympic Discovery Trail. That's like 130 miles of access, you know, pretty much 70 miles either direction from my house. And, you know, all of a sudden I was, you know, I was, I was John McAleavey: Yeah. Ian Mackay: in nature again and you know I'm seeing I'm seeing the spring flowers come up ⁓ I'm smelling that that you know that damp earth right it it's it was just it reminded me of the things I loved and was passionate about before before I was injured anyway you know after we got adept with the switch control Todd really wanted to share it with the rest of the community and ⁓ John McAleavey: Sure, sure, yeah. Ian Mackay: And so we ultimately made a video. We made a video showing how this technology and these these features that Apple is offering. It was giving us complete independence and changing our lives. And we wanted others to be able to utilize this so that they could also have that independence. Anyway, this video went everywhere. A lot of people saw an apple ended up seeing it and. ⁓ John McAleavey: Yeah. Cool. Ian Mackay: They invited Todd and I down to Cupertino and then we started consulting with Apple. I've been consulting with Apple for the past 10 years. And then so just a couple years after, know, after that they had a new technology coming out called voice control. And I've been working with them. And so a year before voice control came out, they tapped me to ⁓ start using it. I'm starting writing all these, signing all these ⁓ John McAleavey: Wow. ⁓ yeah. Ian Mackay: non-disclosure agreements, know, and couldn't even share with my mom or my community of what I was doing, but, know, I'm using this, this tech and it's like, wow, this is going to change the game for, for everything. just, and for, got to spend a full year working with them to, know, really find who didn't develop this technology that, that has been, life changing. And then after the year was about over, they taught me to, ⁓ John McAleavey: Wow. Yeah, for everybody. Ian Mackay: to do a, ⁓ do the national commercial to introduce voice controls of the world. So that was really neat. It played. Yeah. I played during like the NBA finals and the NHL finals. And, ⁓ it was, it was, it was huge. Yeah. People from all over the country are calling me. just saw you. So you end up doing another, we also did a commercial with Todd and I, ⁓ when switch control even before that. So I've got to a couple of national commercials with Apple and. John McAleavey: I don't recall seeing that. ⁓ wow. Yeah Wow, I hope you get some royalties on that. ⁓ good. Ian Mackay: ⁓ yeah. But that relationship more valuable than the royalties is, just to have the ear to the company that's providing so much of my independence and to be able to say, ⁓ you know, I couldn't do this and I was stuck and you know, let's see what we can fix or I lead a lot of support groups and other folks coming up to me and saying, Hey, what's wrong? Why is this a bug? And me being able to, you know, right to, ⁓ the developers of folks in the accessibility team and John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Ian Mackay: And yeah, and it's been really valuable. It's been rewarding and it's been great. ⁓ Over 10 years. ⁓ John McAleavey: Yeah, well, first of all, let me say thank you for as someone who uses the voice control almost all the time. ⁓ Thank you to you and Todd and the folks at Apple for for thinking of the community. mean, a lot of people don't know, you know, Ian, you don't know until you know. And when you're in our position, what else can we do? I mean, it's not like I can get my knuckles out and type a text message. It would take three days to do so. ⁓ Ian Mackay: know, it's series grade, but you know, you can't edit, you know, can't fully interact with your phone that way. And, voice control really allow, know, it's, it's a alternative to fingers in a way where you can use every aspect of the phone with just your voice. John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. Yeah, and so then tell me how that fits in with the getting out on the trails again. When did that all start to go and you're racking up the frequent flyer miles. You went from stuck in the house to now 10, 15 miles a day. Ian Mackay: All right. Yeah, there we go. You know, like I mentioned that trails only a third of a mile from my house and I am You know with this with this tack of the guy felt confident that I could call for help if I was in a pinch and at first I'm only going a mile or so out a little scared and I run back to help just in case and then I'm doing three to five, know, eventually I'm running my chair out of battery going almost 30 miles a day and and You know over a couple years. I've seen every John McAleavey: My gosh! Ian Mackay: Every inch of that trail, every bush and every crack and every aspect. And I was thinking, well, hey, you know, I, ⁓ I really love this bike touring and I really always wanted to experience that. I wonder if I could kind of relive that, but, in my wheelchair. And so I reached out to that professor, ⁓ and his name is Josh blasting is Josh by Dr. B. And I tell him what I was thinking, thinking about doing. he said, John McAleavey: Mm. Mm-hmm. Dr. B, shout out. Ian Mackay: Yep. And he flew up and I designed a route and we rode across the state of Washington. What was, what was really charming and fun about my, my route planning though, was that I made sure that every day we, we finished right near a brewery or we enjoy a cold one, you know, and kind of talk about the, about the day, but ⁓ John McAleavey: That was the ulterior motive. This was all just about a pub crawl. Come on, Ian. Ian Mackay: But it was about like a 350 mile trip over 10 days. as I'm going quickly, other folks in the disabled community are joining me. Other folks in chairs are riding along. then I'm meeting media who are coming out to interview me. I had someone from, I think it was Toronto. John McAleavey: Amazing. Of course. Ian Mackay: You know, call me and here I am talking with people across the country in Canada about what I'm what I'm doing. And, then like the mayor of Tuckwilla came to came to chat with me and I'm talking about infrastructure and policy and then, you know, Governor Inslee invites me to his office after I finished the ride and, he's a cyclist and we're talking about accessible infrastructure and complete streets and just the importance of, know, John McAleavey: Mm. Ugh. No! Ian Mackay: I'm creating access for all when we are designing our city planning and our trail planning. And let's keep advancing trails. ⁓ John McAleavey: Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, here's this dude with dreads down with a crack of his rear end and he's forming public policy. This is tremendous. Ian Mackay: It was and you know what I designed just going out to drink some beer with my friends and have a nice time outside and I'll tell you guys seeing a state at seven miles per hour is kind of a beautiful thing. John McAleavey: Yeah Now what kind of a chair were you working with? Did you have to have like special tires? Did you have to have like a backup chair? What sort of batteries are you working with? Ian Mackay: Yeah, and at that point, ⁓ I was just using a standard just in the care. ⁓ S. R. I believe the T. X. S. R. Is what it was. It had efficient ⁓ gearless brushes motors that give about 30 miles on a charge. And that was that that was really good. But I still would bring a second share along in the support band. And, I could swap into that if I ran out of when I juiced. I was using just just standard standard batteries. But John McAleavey: All right. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Ian Mackay: But after this, I realized this was somehow now bigger than me. I was really close to it. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I mean, we raised over like, I think $10,000 and it costs about $4,000 to do the trip. And then we donated $5,000 to Washington Bikes. It was an organization that was helping to push accessible infrastructure for bikes, which works really well. John McAleavey: Did you get sponsored or did anybody sponsor you? Right. Ian Mackay: really well for me and then we saved a thousand to donate to the folks that manage the trail that's right near my my home. But yeah, we had all these ⁓ different donations from individuals and and sponsors and every brewery, you gave us shirts to wear the following day, which is which was always always fun. But yeah, then all of a sudden I'm I'm running a nonprofit and I reached out to Kenny and I reached out to Todd, who are both kind of running their own nonprofit. John McAleavey: Hehehe. Okay. Ian Mackay: It was in depth, know, and it was a it was a lot of work and you know again, I consider there maybe more boardroom on more break room is how I always kind of thought of it, but you know, I could see the value in doing this and and yeah, that's John McAleavey: Hahaha! Yeah. Now where were you staying at night when you were doing this tour? Ian Mackay: Yeah, so we would get hotel, we get hotel rooms along the way. I was in tent camping. We needed power for that ventilator. John McAleavey: Okay. Okay. Yeah. ⁓ I can imagine. Now tell us, ⁓ you went from this first one with Dr. B and ⁓ touring around, when did all of this sort of come together and to morph into Ian's rides and the and the whole nonprofit and the charity that you have there? Ian Mackay: So I was in 2016 is when we did that first big ride and yeah, it's hard to believe it's been 10 years now and every year. So every other year since we've done other big rides. And so in 2018, I rode east to west across Washington and there was a huge barrier there called the cascades that I have, you know, a power wheelchair up and over. I mean, in 2020, we got even more attention and more notoriety there. John McAleavey: ⁓ yeah. Ian Mackay: And then I'm talking with people in different states about the importance of accessible infrastructure. And in 2020, I did the Redwood Coast. So I rode from Brookings, Oregon down to Fort Bragg, California. And incredibly beautiful, but it was all along roads. no luck was I on trails where I could be. And it started to get little dangerous for my team. And I want to put my team at risk. John McAleavey: Yeah. ⁓ I can imagine. Mmm. Ian Mackay: But it was like reliving those days. I mean, I was, I was just doing bike tour, just, just in in a chair, maybe the slightly slower, slower pace. But after the end of that ride, I decided I didn't want to put my team in, in, in danger anymore. And I, developed a relationship with the, ⁓ the rails to trails conservancy and, ⁓ every ride I've done since then has been on really long rail trails. John McAleavey: Okay. Ian Mackay: And so in 2022, I rode from Washington, DC to Columbus, Ohio, along the Great American Rail Trail. that was on, you know, I was nearly 500 miles on dirt trails. And, you know, these are actually tow paths. And I mean, these predate the railway, the railroad, and these were mules. John McAleavey: Mmm. Wow. Right? Ian Mackay: you pulling barges along the Potomac River and me riding my power wheelchair on a trail that was forged by mules centuries ago. It was spectacular and know again lots of media attention and we just but after doing some of these rides John we know I realize how impactful it was and you know it gave me confidence in it. And it really made me realize I could do a lot more than I thought I could. And I wanted to find a way to provide this opportunity to the greater community. John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah, well tell me two things. Tell me about you've mentioned a few times now you didn't want to put your team in harm's way. What consists of a team? Who is involved in your team and how many folks and what are they responsible for? Ian Mackay: Yeah, so generally, you know, I can do it with two two guys. My main two guys are Jimmy and dr. B You know, their trail names are quinoa and metal arc is what we we call it. They call me Ringo They know we the three of us have mainly done it but we've done it with I've had a caregiver ride along with us I've had their partners and my partner kind of ride along with us and John McAleavey: RING A HUCK! Okay. Ian Mackay: Yeah, it changed, but those are the those are the core, you the core to that. And, know, and they're they're there to, know, when we are on roads to keep me safe and, know, and make sure that the folks can can see me. They're also there to, know, I did regain the ability to breathe, but I never regained the ability to cough. so it's about all I have. And so we will use machines to help manage that. they're John McAleavey: Right. Okay. Right. Ian Mackay: both familiar with those and they just keep me keep me moving along and you know the jokes are plenty I'll tell you. John McAleavey: Yeah, I can imagine. And not to get all too graphic, but the folks that are like you and I who've had the injuries. you're doing all of your like bowel and bladder and all that stuff along the way, your bowel program and your clean... Ian Mackay: I do my bell program every other day and yeah, you know you just do what you got to do John McAleavey: Okay? Do what you got to do. I have a buddy down here who is a he's a I think he's a c5 quad and he doesn't let Anything get in the way of doing anything. He's out. He's a real outdoorsman, too He's telling me he's doing his bowel program like in running streams and Jersey and yeah He's got to do what you got to do. He tells me Crazy Without question without question and so now you were saying that you're seeing that Ian Mackay: There's some crazy stories out there like that. John McAleavey: ⁓ you're having an effect on the community at large and how you're going to maybe try and take advantage of that and how you can sort of be a blueprint and maybe raise awareness and then and money along the way, right? Ian Mackay: It was more about trying to offer this similar experience to the community, right? I I just realized how meaningful, impactful it was. you know, getting out in nature when you're a higher injury might not seem as doable. And so what we did is we developed our flagship event. You know, Ian's Ride holds a number of events throughout the year that are fully supported for people of all abilities. And most of those rides, like 10 to 12 miles at different trails along, you know, Washington state. John McAleavey: Yeah, yeah. Ian Mackay: But our flagship event is Cedar Sound. This is we developed right after that second ride across Washington. And this is a 75 mile ride over three days along the Olympic Discovery Trail, right outside my house. this was our, this past year was our seventh year. think we had 150 individuals, 75 volunteers, over 40 of them are in wheelchairs. And I mean, it's just this magical event, John. John McAleavey: Yeah. Yep. Yep. That's awesome. Ian Mackay: So many folks couldn't experience, you know, without support. I've got all those college friends flying up and they're ready to push chairs, you know, if they run out of juice or help a manual chair up a hill or maybe someone just dropped something and he picked up, you know, I've got all I've got an EMT out there riding along. Something happens in a bike mechanic and a wheelchair mechanic. And I also invite dignitaries. I invite folks like from, you know, world and policy, you know, maybe they're John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Ian Mackay: A senator or a representative or maybe this last year we had the CEO of Invocare out there. We put them in a chair for five miles and we say, okay, you here you get to ride along with all of us and experience the joy and the challenges that we do. And, you know, that's been really impactful for the policy makers. I mean, they're going to invest a little bit more in, you know, maintaining trails and expanding trails because John McAleavey: Wow. Mmm. Ian Mackay: Those are what's allowing us to kind of get around and they bring communities together. But having a mobility leader also there, I mean, they're now going to be developing equipment for more of for lifestyles and for people that they want to have some fun outdoor recreation rather than just insurance companies. John McAleavey: Yeah, what would you? Right, right. What would you say the ages range from? Do you have some young folks there with their parents and families and stuff? Ian Mackay: Sure, mean we've had a seven year old in a chair that rode pretty much almost that entire route over three days. We had a 103 year old woman that rode last five miles on day two and she actually, I think she was 105 and she just had her funeral. Her funeral was yesterday but. John McAleavey: God. Wow. ⁓ God rest her soul. Ian Mackay: It's so special, right? To have all these ages and all these different abilities. You know, we have fully event dependent people. I mean, we have, you know, people with just just are barely disabled, but whatever. mean, they're getting to to come together. They're able to share resources and strategies and ideas and then just get to, you know, enjoy the fun of being outdoors. John McAleavey: Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I can remember the thing that I would equate it with Ian is what was when I first was able to drive again and I was able to get behind the wheel of a car that had to be retrofitted for me because my arms don't work and I can do the gas and brake with my feet but to be able to do with the spinner knob to do that and I can remember I kicked everybody out of the car. I turned the music up and I put the windows down and it was like, ⁓ my God, I'm back. It's me, I'm back again like I used to be. It's just that, it's that feeling of we want to be accepted and be out there again. Ian Mackay: It just opens up the door to what else can I do? know, mean all things that I thought were limits and that were okay now I just have to find ways around those John McAleavey: Yeah! That's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about the infrastructure that you have behind the scenes that puts these big things together. mean, is it a do you have a big crew of people that are involved in all this? Or is it like you and a couple of friends? Ian Mackay: That's where I'm that's where I'm just super lucky, John, as I have this huge community behind me, both family, friends locally community I've just developed, and all these these great friends just from my past, my college years. And, and like I said, to put on to sound last year, we had over 70 72 volunteers. And that's a lot of people over three days is organizing it all is is challenging, but but I could not do this alone. And it is that John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Ian Mackay: that vast community I have that allows me to do the things I do. And that's kind of why I put C to sound on is because not everybody has that community. And, you know, if I can kind of assure that in a way to have others get wonderful experiences like mine, I mean, I want to do that. John McAleavey: Now when you say C to sound, is that to the Puget sound? Ian Mackay: Sorry, Sea to Sound, yeah that's the name of the event. Ultimately the Salish Sea to the Puget Sound is the play. It doesn't quite make it to either. John McAleavey: Yep. That's what I wondered. Yeah, I figured the Puget sound. Yeah. Yeah. So what would what would be next, Ian? What is what is the next ⁓ thing that you're trying to conquer here, either on your ⁓ rides or with the with the foundation that you have? Ian Mackay: Yeah, well, so I didn't mention back in 2022, I also achieved a Guinness World Record for the furthest distance traveled in 24 hours in a power wheelchair. 184 miles in 24 hours. And I did this because there was a man from Korea who had John McAleavey: ⁓ wow, how far did you go? Ian Mackay: Well, after doing my long ride, I kind of looked up and it was the longest since anyone's gone in a chair. And I found this man in Korea as a world record for, you know, like these thousands of miles over 18 months that he did across multiple countries. It's pretty awesome. But he also had this record for this 24, this 24 hour ride. And I said, I can dedicate, I can do anything for, for 24 hours. Turns out John, that was one the most miserable days of my life. It was very challenging. John McAleavey: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Ian Mackay: Anyway, those relationships I made with Apple doing those commercials, ⁓ they were very talented production crew and they asked, hey, do you have any fun events coming up that we'd love to do a documentary for a passion project of ours? John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. Ian Mackay: And so we now have a documentary that's going to be released in the coming months. We're just looking for a ⁓ film festival to premiere that. And then we're going to be distributing out widely. We also had a book. We had a book come out in April. And so, you know, between a book and the documentary, I've been I've been super busy. But I did mention every other year I do a long ride. And so this year we're looking at going across New York along the Erie Canal Trail. John McAleavey: That's awesome. Yeah. Really? You're gonna be out my way? Ian Mackay: another tow path and I'd also you know forged by mules long ago and yeah it's gonna be pretty pretty special and we're gonna finish I've been working with invi care and I'm an ambassador for invi care for years now but motion concepts is a subsidiary of theirs and and I'm gonna finish at motion concepts where I can do some consulting with them and you know talk about you know how awesome adventure can be if equipment is available that allows you to do so John McAleavey: ⁓ wow. Okay, good. wow man I tell you I like to joke with some of my friends that are in chairs and I say well you you certainly don't let any grass grow under your wheels or your tires and you are certainly that kind of a guy you're you're out there and you're visible and it's amazing coming from someone who shied away from it all initially to where you are now I mean if you were to go back and give that ⁓ Ian of the first year out what would you tell him? Ian Mackay: not sure would have believed it to be honest, but I would say, you know, first it's okay to ask for ask for help, right? And make that clear. And also that the limits are so often only in your head and push yourself and, and, know, seek adventure and, and you have a support network, use it. They all want, they want to see you succeed. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. without question. Yeah. And I'll leave you with this one. The last question I always ask all of my guests and ⁓ it's an interesting story. It came about, I was waiting in this long hallway to see my physiatrist at the time and I was with a buddy of mine from high school. Unfortunately, one of my best buds from high school, he got banged up and had a severe spinal cord injury. He was a high quad and he was in a chair. I remember I said, hey T, if... If I could snap my fingers right now and you would be completely able-bodied again, what do think the first thing you would do would be? And as I look over and I see the smoke pouring out of his ears as he's trying to come up with an answer, I heard from behind me there was a woman that said, I would go out and garden in my backyard. And then a guy off to my right said, would go back in my garage and fix my car and tinker with cars. And so there's always going to be an answer. And I pose it to you, Ian, what do you think the first thing you would be? Ian Mackay: Well, besides like probably like itch my nose, John, I mean, might be an easy one. But, you know, I would I would hug my fiance, right? I'd hug my mom. And those are think would be the most important things that I could do is, you know, is show some physical affection to to all those that have helped get me to where I am today. John McAleavey: Yeah. Simple pleasures, right? Simple pleasures. Well, Ian McKay, thank you so much for carving some time out of your busy day. I know you're a busy man. And not only that, but for all you do for the community and for able-bodied out there, able-bodied people that see all that you're able to overcome. it sort of is a nice light that makes us all look good. Ian Mackay: You got it. You got it. John McAleavey: You know, it's not easy what we're doing, but if you put a smile on your face and you're willing to put yourself back out there again, it does so much for all of us. Ian Mackay: Attitude is everything, John. Attitude is everything. John McAleavey: It is. And again, I appreciate you joining me and I hope we can stay in touch and remain friends. Ian Mackay: So too John really. Thank you for having me been great talking with you