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For the Family: Praying for Your Spouse Without Trying to Change Them · The Father's Business Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes our prayer can easily be, God, please change this person, and preferably can you do that by dinner?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we can pray for our spouses with a lot of mixed motives because we genuinely love them and we genuinely want what God's best is for them.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And occasionally we think we know what God's best is for them because it looks remarkably similar to what we would like for them to be.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, I'm Kimberly.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Elizabeth, and this is the Father's Business Podcast, born out of Sylvia Gunter's heart for people to know who God is and who they are in Him.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever you're listening from today, we pray that you will sense his nearness and know that you are his beloved sons and daughters.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're really glad you're here with us today.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hi there, welcome back to the Father's Business Podcast.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: We are so glad you've joined us.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: We are continuing in our For the Family series.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And today, we are going to talk specifically about praying for your spouse.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Which seems straightforward, Elizabeth, doesn't it?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm so excited about this episode.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think sometimes our prayer can easily be, God, please change this person.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And preferably, can you do that by dinner?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we can pray for our spouses with a lot of mixed motives because we genuinely love them and we genuinely want what God's best is for them.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And occasionally we think we know what God's best is for them because it looks remarkably similar to what we would like for them to be.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that convenient?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Very.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing how that works, Kimberly.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So often when I pray for my husband, I think God's best idea is my best idea.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So today we want to talk about what it looks like to pray for your spouse without turning prayer into a spiritual improvement plan for them.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this podcast is already too convicting, but we're gonna keep going.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think this connects directly to what we've already been talking about in this series, which is we are not the Holy Spirit for the people we love.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about letting God search our own hearts.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And last week we talked about remembering that the person in front of us is not the enemy, and marriage is where all of that comes together in one big laboratory because marriage brings you very close to another person.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: We know each other's strengths, we know each other's vulnerabilities, we know what they do when they're tired, and we also know what habits they have that drive you absolutely crazy.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I will not be confessing any, but there are some.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we also know that they know yours too.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where it gets tricky is yes, I love being fully known.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like when that may get weaponized against me.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to say up front before we go any farther, some of you may be like, praying for your spouse, not for me.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not married.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think the principles we're talking about today can also be applied to any type of close relationship you've got going on.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, Elizabeth, when you pray for someone you know that well, someone who is close to you that you may do life with, that's your spouse.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Some people have lost their spouse and they do life with a community of other people.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I think whenever you're close to someone and you know them that well, it can be difficult to separate.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: God bless them and form them into who you created them to be from God, could you please make them easier for me to live with?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Have you been listening to my prayer life?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, sometimes those prayers can sound almost identical.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: In my case, God helped Todd become a better communicator.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe God wants to work that in my life first.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he also wants to say, Elizabeth, while you're here, let's talk about the way you communicate with him when you don't feel heard and I get triggered or I start reacting.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, that wasn't the original prayer request.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not even remotely, but isn't it funny how sometimes when we bring our request to God, he starts a different conversation.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what we're trying to say, Kimberly, is praying doesn't give us control.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a part of For the Family that has always been very personal for me.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right after the spiritual warfare section is a section where mom talks about praying for your husband and praying for your wife and the spirit of separation and some other things that we'll talk about today.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I started praying for my future husband when I was about 16.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't get married until I was 34.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a lot of years to pray.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I prayed for the man I would marry, I prayed for our marriage, I prayed for the life that we would have together, and then I finally got married.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're familiar with my story, because you've listened to this podcast, that marriage ended.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I fought for my marriage, I prayed, I sought counsel, we went to counseling, I wanted restoration, and he still had a choice and he didn't choose to stay.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that was one of the hardest things for me to come to terms with is I had prayed for something for so long, and then it didn't turn out the way that I thought it did.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a very subtle message that we can pick up in the Christian culture, and that's if we pray faithfully enough, then somehow we can guarantee that outcome.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that isn't what prayer is.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Faithful prayer does not give me control over another person's response to God.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can pray and love and obey God and what he asks of me on my part, but I cannot make another person choose what I want them to choose.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And their choice is also not proof that my prayers were wasted.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's an important distinction.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think otherwise prayer can become another place where we carry guilt.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: If I had prayed better, if I had prayed longer, if I had used the right words, then maybe this marriage would have survived.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And there are simply too many human choices involved for us to put that burden on prayer and the act of prayer or on ourselves, really.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I can look back now and see ways God answered prayers that didn't look like the outcome I had imagined when I was 16.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm here to say he didn't waste those years and he didn't waste those prayers, and he didn't abandon me when my story looked very different from what I had expected.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: I obviously come to this episode from a different perspective because I am still single, and that doesn't mean that I haven't prayed for a husband as well.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is my story, and we can have that long conversation sometime over coffee if you want to call me.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I've had people say, sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly, it's kind of this attitude of like, well, Kimberly, what do you know about marriage?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's a fair question in one sense, because there are things about being married that I don't know and can't know experientially.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a fact.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I have spent years working with families and helping couples navigate conflict and working within family systems.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing, Elizabeth, that I've learned is that being outside the marriage system can sometimes help you see patterns more clearly.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think when you're inside the conflict, you know this in your own life, you can look at other people's situations sometimes and you can see things differently.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: When you're inside the conflict, you're experiencing all the emotion, all the history, and the person sitting outside of it may be able to say, Well, do you notice what happens every time this particular subject comes up?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: One person pursues, the other person withdraws.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: One gets louder, the other shuts down.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: When one shuts down, the louder person tends to get louder because the person shut down.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you're creating this cycle that you can go around and around and around, and both people can walk away saying, See, this proves exactly what I thought about them.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: They are who I thought they were.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: They cannot be trusted.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot do this conflict with them.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there are patterns.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes prayer begins with asking God, God, can you help me see the pattern that my spouse and I are caught up in?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: That not just everything my spouse is doing is wrong.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: We need to look at the pattern because there is a dance.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a dance, and I know my pattern, and that is I want to keep talking until you understand that I'm right.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Elizabeth, how's that working out for you?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Shockingly, Todd does not find it spiritually enriching.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, he honestly does not appreciate that approach.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that is honestly something I've had to learn about myself.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: If I feel misunderstood, my instinct is to explain more and then explain why my explanation should have worked.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not c convinced, apparently I just need to use more words.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what makes him shut down.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's pretty typical in a relationship because someone else is going to have the opposite response.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: They can get overwhelmed by the conflict.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: They need to withdraw, they need space.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And now the pursuing person experiences the withdrawal as rejection, and the withdrawing person experiences the pursuit as control or like they won't stop.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And neither person necessarily started out intending harm, but the impact is harmful.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And now both nervous systems are reacting like crazy, and everyone's off kilter and off balance, and there's even more conflict than there was when it started, and more emotions than when it started.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just hold up a mirror.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: You've just described parts of my parts of my life.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I think prayer can become really useful because it's not God, make Todd stop doing the thing that bothers me, but God, what happens inside of me when something bothers me or when I get triggered?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I need to resolve it immediately?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I need to be understood?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: What am I afraid will happen if this conversation doesn't end the way I want it to and in the timing that I want it to?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the next step is to start asking, what am I protecting?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Am I protecting myself?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Am I protecting fear of losing the marriage?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Am I protecting something going on with the other person?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then what do I need right now?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And am I asking my spouse to give me something that ultimately needs to be rooted in God?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which is the core key thing because that takes us back to what we've said many times is identity.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's take an example and look at anger for a minute, okay?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: We can often treat anger as a thing that we just need to stop.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I need to stop being angry.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: You need to stop being angry, stop being angry.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we absolutely need to manage how we're expressing the anger, but anger is telling us something.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is underneath that emotion?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: It may be protecting hurt.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know for me, oftentimes anger is protecting my fear.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Your anger may be saying something feels unjust.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It may be saying I don't feel heard, which is why stop being angry isn't enough because then it just undoes all the true feelings that are underneath.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is, Elizabeth, the person on the other side can't see what's underneath.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: They just see your anger and they feel your anger.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes we can't see what's underneath because we're just feeling angry.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if underneath my anger is I need you to understand me more before I can be okay, then I'm giving another person a tremendous amount of control over my internal state.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to say, I need you to understand me.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have that desire, but there's a difference in saying I need you to understand me or I can't be okay.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we really need God to meet us in that place because ultimately, as I always say, these things are train wrecks waiting to happen in our marriages in particular, and God is the only one who could meet us in that place.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a really hard one for marriage because of course I want my spouse to understand me.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of intimacy, but it can't be at the core of my identity.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we're not saying that people shouldn't seek understanding from each other.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: What we are saying is that no human being can perfectly understand you and validate you all the time.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if your stability, if your identity, if you being okay depends on that, then both people are going to feel an enormous amount of pressure.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they are.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes we slip into it without even realizing it, which where some of the questions you were saying earlier are so important.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe the prayer becomes God, help us understand each other better, but also, Father, meet me in the place where I feel unseen.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think both sides of that equation need to be addressed.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I need to pray for my spouse and our marriage to be healthy, but that what you're talking about, Kimberly, is those things underneath.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: God, who do I need to know you are for me in places where I feel unseen?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Both can be true.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the reasons why I really love the specific prayers for husbands and wives and for the family.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: They aren't simply God bless my husband or God help my wife.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: They are very intentional, scripture-based prayers that begin at the top of the person's head and move all the way down to their feet.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the picture I have when I pray them is that I'm bringing the whole person to God.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, Father, bring every part of this person into alignment with who you created them to be as your son or daughter and as a follower of Jesus.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's wonderful and beautiful because you're not just praying about the thing that happens to be bothering you that day.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're praying so much more broadly for who they are and who they are becoming.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I can pray over their mind, give them the mind of Christ, guard their thoughts, give them wisdom and discernment.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can pray over his eyes, keep his eyes fixed on Jesus, help them recognize truth and turn away from things that aren't giving life.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we can pray over their ears, help them hear your voice and receive wise counsel, or I can pray over someone's mouth, let their words be truthful and gracious and let them speak life.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And none of that is telling God how to fix a specific problem in my marriage.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's asking God to bring the fullness of who He is into every part of my spouse.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then as you move down, you're praying for their heart, their desires, their affections, what they love, what they're carrying emotionally.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Father, give them a heart that is tender toward you, heal the places that are wounded, let their heart be secure in your love.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then their hands, bless the work of their hands, give them integrity in what they do, and let them use their gifts well.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And their feet, order their steps, lead them in the paths you have for them, keep them from places that would pull them away from you.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than only praying, God, change this one behavior that's driving me crazy, I'm blessing the whole person into deep, deep surrender and alignment with God.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And even though the prayers in the book are titled Praying for Your Husband and Praying for Your Wife, like we said earlier, these principles aren't limited to marriage.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate you mentioning that, Elizabeth, because you can pray these same biblical themes for a child, a friend, a sibling, anyone that God puts your heart on, you can walk through these prayers.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I actually have a bit of personal experience with that because I started praying for a future husband when I was 16.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: So over the years, there were several men along the way that I thought might possibly be that husband.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um they were not.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was convinced they were, but no.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I prayed that husband prayer over more than one of them.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there are men walking around somewhere who received a lot of prayer benefits.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: There are men out there who had somebody praying.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: May you have the mind of Christ, may your eyes stay fixed on Jesus, may you have a heart that seeks God, may your steps be ordered by the Lord.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're one of those men out there and you have to be listening today, you're welcome.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: There you go, Elizabeth.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: The public service provided by Elizabeth at the Father's Business.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, if you want to give a donation to the Father's Business, we'd appreciate it.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but all joking aside, I really do believe those prayers weren't wasted.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Prayer is never wasted because it's ultimately belongs to God.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's another way that this takes control out of my hands.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I may have thought I knew what role someone was going to have in my life.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I didn't.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I was way off more than once.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: But asking God to form Christ in another person is never a bad prayer.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great distinction for marriage, too.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of praying primarily for the spouse you want them to become for you, you're praying for the person God is forming them to become in him.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Little distinction there, but yeah, convicting, very, very convicting one.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And strangely enough, when I pray that way, it changes the way I see them.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're no longer just the person who needs to fix that annoying thing that I've told them about multiple times.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're a whole person whom God loves and is continually forming.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a good reminder that he's not finished with me yet, and he's not finished with them either.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a that's a pretty big shift if you think about it, because especially in relationships, conflict can make a person seem really small.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: They become the person who did that thing to you.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, prayer helps restore the complexity and it helps you see this is someone that God loves.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is somebody with a story, this is someone that God is forming.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean that we ignore something that we need to address in the relationship, but it means I'm addressing it as someone who is for the other person, right?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to defeat them or tear them down.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I recognize that God is doing a work in them.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we also need to say something clearly because conversation about prayer, forgiveness, and marriage can be harmful if we're careless.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to recognize and we want to say clearly that praying for your spouse does not mean that you tolerate abuse.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: It does not mean that you ignore addiction.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that you should pretend betrayal isn't happening if it is.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean staying silent about coercion, threats, or behaviors that are unsafe.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we want you to hear that your humility in that does not mean that you never establish boundaries.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Forgiveness does not automatically mean trust is restored, and prayer is not a substitute for getting help.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: There may be situations where you need a counselor, you need a wise pastor, you need a mediator, a doctor, you need legal help, a safe place to stay.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of different things that people need.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Seeking that wise help is not evidence that you failed spiritually and that you didn't pray enough.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes wisdom needs to look like bringing other people into the situation.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when we talk about owning your part, we are not saying own their destructive behavior too.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: You are only responsible for your heart, your responses, your choices.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: You are not responsible.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: You are not responsible for making another person safe or healthy.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of leads us into another portion of for the family.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the spirit of separation.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And mom talks about it in For the Family based on Matthew 12, 25, which says, every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we're talking about this in the context of marriage today, but it also, again, applies to all kinds of relationships.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: In For the Family, there's a list of 20 characteristics or symptoms of the spirit of separation that she lists, like pride, self-centeredness, control, lust, anger, and she contrasts it with the characteristics of God's spirit, things like humility, sacrifice, holiness, and peace.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a great exercise when there is conflict to stop and ask, okay, what fruits of the spirit of separation are at work here?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I ask God to displace it with who He is?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: For example, you can pray, Father, I repent of pride and renounce its control in my life and my relationship.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Would you work in me your humility as you fill me with the fullness of who you are?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: But here's one key thing.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Notice that prayer was about me and my part.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can't repent on behalf of what your significant other is doing.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't pray these prayers for Todd or other people that I'm in relationship with.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: So once again, as we talked about a few weeks ago, I'm tending to my own heart and getting it right before God, not telling God how to clean up his heart.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that stands out as you're talking about the spirit of separation is in Genesis 3.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's how quickly separation from God becomes separation from each other.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Adam and Eve hid from God, and then God asks, What happened?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody starts pointing.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Adam's like, Well, it's the woman you gave to me.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: In one sentence, he blamed Eve and God.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very efficient of him, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then Eve is pointing to the serpent.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what shame does.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: It hides, it protects, and it blames.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we're still very good at it.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it started in the garden, but I can come into a conflict with exhibits A, B, C, D, and E of everything Todd has done wrong.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And perhaps they are factually correct.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So Elizabeth, that are you actually bringing documentation to your husband, like exhibit A, exhibit B.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sellers come up here.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it can feel like that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's color-coded.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same point, God may tap me on the shoulder and say, okay, but what in this belongs to you, Elizabeth?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not just Todd's behavior that I can do something about.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can also have something to do with your own heart and what needs to be healed in you.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So here we are again at a part of the conversation that we don't enjoy having because this is one of the hardest truths in relationship.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, I cannot control whether the other person owns their part.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I can only choose whether I own mine.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Take a deep breath.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because as a person of control, I know that feeling internally and intuitively of.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Pushing, pushing, pushing to get them to own their part.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I'm gonna own mine, then clearly, of course, you're gonna own yours, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easy to point a finger even at Adam and Eve, but we have this pattern.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the question we have to ask is when relationship gets hard, how do I protect myself?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can be aware of these patterns, then maybe we can look at some things.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So do I attack?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do I withdraw?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do I control?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do I accuse?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do I perform and try to keep everybody happy?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do I shut down emotionally?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those strategies developed for a reason at some point.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they helped us protect ourselves.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what once protected us may now be keeping us from intimacy.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to be willing to evaluate and ask those questions.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and Kimberly, we even talked about a couple of weeks ago in our podcast about how we are formed by our family.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it sometimes feels normal because that's the only family we have.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And as you're talking about those things and these patterns that are created, a lot of these are formed long before you get into a marriage.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then marriage just tends to expose those strategies and patterns because another person is close enough to get to those places that we're trying to protect.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And they have their own family story that they bring into the marriage.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why conflict feels so much bigger than the subject that you are arguing about.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're technically discussing finances, but underneath it, the questions you may be asking is can I trust you?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you value me?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do I matter?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Are you going to leave me?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or by agreeing with you, am I giving up some of this control that I want to hold on to?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or am I going to disappear in this relationship?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, Elizabeth, the person never even realizes that that's the conversation they're actually having, what you're describing.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: They may think the conversation's about the kids or money, but the real issues are much deeper.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And what you were saying a minute ago about these things being formed, a lot of these patterns or these thoughts and feelings being formed a long time ago.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of licensed professional counselors out there who talk about attachment theory, you know, from the psychological world, that attachment style is shaped in us really young.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so we all have a fight or flight or flee or fawn mentality, right?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lot going on under the surface.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of these questions that we're asking can be underneath things in our prayer life too.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like we may be praying and asking God to fix a particular problem or pattern in our spouse, but underneath we have questions for God too.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, God, do you value me?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Am I heard by you?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can I trust you to solve this problem?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we have those questions of our spouse.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do they value me?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Am I heard by them?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can I trust them?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so all of that is probably going on in our prayer life and it's layered.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe one practical exercise is to listen to the way you're praying for your spouse.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like actually pay attention to your own prayers.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do your prayers reveal?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Are most of them about behavior, like make him do this, make her stop this, fix this habit in them?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or are we also praying, God, let them know how deeply they are loved by you?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Give her wisdom, give him wisdom, strengthen their heart when they're tired, protect his mind, give him courage, let her experience your presence.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you listen, those prayers sound different.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they also, when we start to pay attention to that, then we can start distinguish what's going on in our own hearts and maybe learn to set that aside a little bit and deal with that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like that needs to be dealt with.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Those questions need to be faced, but maybe in a separate conversation with God, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: What I most want God to change in another person is the thing that would make my life easier.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just be honest.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just put it all out there.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And God may care about that issue, but He loves that person for who they are, not merely how well they function in relationship to me.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is way too convicting, Kimberly.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just because I'm single doesn't mean I don't have to deal with this.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think it though, Elizabeth, if I had to summarize where we've landed, it would be these four things, okay?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Pray, love, own your part, and release the rest to God.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I know those sound easy, but let's break it down like pray because you want to invite God into the relationship.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't be listening to this podcast if you didn't.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we believe it's very important.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: We pray because we want to invite God into the relationship.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Love because the goal isn't to win against your spouse.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: At times it can feel like that.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, the goal isn't to win, it's to love and it's to be in relationship.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then own your part because that's the part where you can actually bring yourself before God and change.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you can control and that's what you can do.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then release because you cannot do the Holy Spirit's work in another adult.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sad, but true, but very important.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: We cannot do the Holy Spirit's work in another adult.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And release doesn't mean indifference.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean, well, I don't care what you do.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: It actually means I care deeply and I refuse to make myself responsible for something that God has not given me the power to control.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really hard sometimes.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Really hard.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So this week, if you're married, maybe ask yourself four questions as you pray for your spouse.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: First, am I praying for them or am I mostly praying for them to become easier for me?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Second, what belongs to me in this relationship right now?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is there something I need to apologize for?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a pattern I need to recognize?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: A conversation I need to approach differently?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So what belongs to me in the relationship right now?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third question: what am I asking my spouse to give me that I need to receive from God?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Security, worth, peace, understanding.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then the fourth one is where we have to get real, real honest.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can I bless my spouse or my person without controlling the outcome?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is can I sincerely ask God to form them, love them, lead them, and meet them, even if his work doesn't happen on my timetable or look exactly like I had imagined.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like having to live these podcasts, Kimberly.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: We want to close today by praying a blessing over spouses.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not married, receive the principles for the relationships that God has given you.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: So let's pray, Kimberly.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Father, we want to thank you for the gift of relationships.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: We want to thank you that you know every marriage completely, the joy, the friendship, the disappointments, the wounds, the places of strength, and the places that need your healing.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so, Father, we ask you to draw each husband and wife first to you.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let their identity be rooted in your love rather than in what their spouse gives or fails to give.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: Bless their minds with truth and wisdom.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Protect them from accusation, resentment, contempt, and hopelessness.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where there has been misunderstanding, bring clarity.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where there has been hurt, bring healing.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Where there is conflict, give humility and courage to own what belongs to each person.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Teach husbands and wives to listen well.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Give them grace to speak honestly without cruelty.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Show them where fear or old wounds are shaping their reactions.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Give them wisdom to know when to speak, when to wait, when to forgive, and when to seek help.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And Father, free us from trying to control the people that we love.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Forgive us when our prayers become demands that you make someone else conform to our plan.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Help us pray for your purposes in their lives, not simply our own comfort.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Teach us to bless what you are doing in them.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Where marriages are healthy, deepen them.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Where they are tired, renew them.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where there is distance, show the next faithful step toward connection.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And where there is serious harm or danger, Father, bring light, bring truth, and provide wise people protection, courage, and real help.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Father, remind us that another person's choices are not ours to control.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Give us the grace that we need to love faithfully, to own our own part honestly, and to trust you with everything that belongs to you.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: In Jesus' name we pray.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is made possible through donations by people like you.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: To donate, go to www.thefathersbusiness.com.
• 30:35
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