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"✨ Breaking Down Toxic Positivity: Embracing the Messy Side of Healing 💔" · The Eye Believe Podcast

• 0:00
  I started
• 0:00
  teaching
• 0:01
  college,
• 0:01
  maybe,
• 0:02
  ten
• 0:02
  years ago
• 0:04
  and
• 0:04
  taught
• 0:04
  for a
• 0:04
  while
• 0:05
  because,
• 0:06
  I was
• 0:06
  diagnosed
• 0:07
  with
• 0:07
  ocular
• 0:08
  melanoma.
• 0:08
  Interestingly
• 0:09
  enough,
• 0:09
  as a
• 0:10
  trauma
• 0:10
  therapist,
• 0:11
  and
• 0:12
  didn't
• 0:12
  think
• 0:12
  that I
• 0:13
  was going
• 0:13
  to be
• 0:13
  able to
• 0:14
  treat
• 0:15
  clients
• 0:15
  while
• 0:16
  I was
• 0:16
  going
• 0:16
  through
• 0:16
  my own stuff.
• 0:17
  So
• 0:18
  I decided
• 0:18
  to take
• 0:19
  a break
• 0:19
  from
• 0:19
  being a
• 0:19
  therapist
• 0:20
  to
• 0:21
  college
• 0:21
  for a
• 0:21
  while.
• 0:21
  I got to
• 0:22
  teach
• 0:22
  psychology,
• 0:23
  which was
• 0:23
  really fun,
• 0:24
  and now
• 0:25
  I am back
• 0:26
  in the field
• 0:28
  and
• 0:28
  I've been again
• 0:30
  specializing
• 0:30
  in trauma
• 0:32
  and
• 0:32
  really,
• 0:33
  really
• 0:33
  enjoying
• 0:34
  my work.
• 0:35
  And I,
• 0:35
  I do have
• 0:36
  to say
• 0:37
  that
• 0:38
  the work
• 0:39
  that
• 0:39
  I did
• 0:39
  as
• 0:40
  a
• 0:40
  greener,
• 0:41
  younger
• 0:41
  therapist
• 0:42
  is very,
• 0:43
  very different
• 0:44
  than how
• 0:44
  I
• 0:45
  approach
• 0:45
  my work
• 0:46
  now.
• 0:47
  And I
• 0:48
  think
• 0:48
  part of
• 0:49
  that was
• 0:49
  because
• 0:49
  of my
• 0:50
  own
• 0:50
  trauma,
• 0:51
  and my
• 0:52
  own
• 0:52
  resilience.
• 0:53
  I saw
• 0:53
  things
• 0:53
  completely different.
• 0:54
  So
• 0:55
  I think
• 0:56
  previous
• 0:57
  to my own
• 0:58
  emotional
• 0:59
  trauma,
• 1:00
  I took
• 1:01
  more of a
• 1:01
  Western
• 1:02
  medicine
• 1:02
  approach
• 1:03
  to
• 1:03
  treatment,
• 1:04
  which is
• 1:05
  focused
• 1:06
  on the
• 1:06
  diagnosis
• 1:07
  and the
• 1:07
  symptoms.
• 1:08
  So
• 1:08
  I focused
• 1:09
  quite
• 1:09
  a bit,
• 1:10
  post-traumatic
• 1:11
  stress.
• 1:12
  And okay,
• 1:13
  let's
• 1:13
  give you
• 1:13
  that
• 1:13
  diagnosis
• 1:14
  because,
• 1:14
  you know,
• 1:15
  there's
• 1:15
  and
• 1:15
  this is
• 1:15
  total
• 1:16
  sarcasm
• 1:16
  because
• 1:16
  there's
• 1:17
  no harm
• 1:17
  in that
• 1:17
  in
• 1:17
  labeling
• 1:18
  you with
• 1:19
  that
• 1:19
  huge,
• 1:20
  huge
• 1:20
  diagnosis.
• 1:21
  and after
• 1:21
  we
• 1:21
  give you
• 1:22
  that
• 1:22
  label,
• 1:22
  we're
• 1:22
  just
• 1:22
  going
• 1:22
  to pick
• 1:23
  out
• 1:23
  your symptoms
• 1:24
  and we're
• 1:24
  just
• 1:24
  going
• 1:24
  to make
• 1:25
  them
• 1:25
  better
• 1:25
  as quick
• 1:26
  as we can.
• 1:27
  And so
• 1:27
  I was
• 1:28
  very
• 1:28
  much into
• 1:29
  all right,
• 1:29
  let's
• 1:29
  get in.
• 1:30
  Let's
• 1:30
  get out,
• 1:31
  get
• 1:31
  your symptoms
• 1:32
  taken
• 1:32
  care of,
• 1:32
  whatever
• 1:33
  that is,
• 1:33
  and
• 1:34
  move on
• 1:34
  with
• 1:35
  life.
• 1:35
  okay.
• 1:36
  Now,
• 1:36
  since
• 1:36
  my own,
• 1:38
  my own
• 1:38
  diagnosis
• 1:39
  and I
• 1:39
  like
• 1:39
  to kind
• 1:40
  of
• 1:40
  incorporate
• 1:40
  my own
• 1:41
  story
• 1:42
  into,
• 1:43
  trainings
• 1:43
  that I
• 1:44
  do or,
• 1:46
  presentation,
• 1:47
  because I
• 1:48
  really
• 1:48
  found
• 1:49
  that I
• 1:50
  have
• 1:50
  changed
• 1:50
  so
• 1:51
  much in
• 1:51
  my
• 1:52
  perspective
• 1:52
  and
• 1:53
  in the way
• 1:53
  that I
• 1:53
  see
• 1:54
  things.
• 1:55
  And,
• 1:56
  I used to
• 1:56
  be very,
• 1:57
  very,
• 1:57
  very
• 1:57
  optimistic.
• 1:58
  And I
• 1:58
  kind of
• 1:59
  thought
• 1:59
  of myself
• 1:59
  when
• 2:00
  I was
• 2:00
  diagnosed
• 2:00
  as the
• 2:01
  poster
• 2:01
  child
• 2:02
  of
• 2:02
  resilience.
• 2:03
  And,
• 2:04
  I was
• 2:04
  diagnosed
• 2:06
  and
• 2:07
  I thought,
• 2:08
  okay,
• 2:08
  bucket
• 2:09
  list,
• 2:09
  what is it
• 2:10
  that
• 2:10
  I want to
• 2:10
  do?
• 2:11
  What is it
• 2:11
  that's
• 2:11
  going to
• 2:12
  fulfill
• 2:12
  me?
• 2:13
  How
• 2:13
  am I going
• 2:13
  to leave
• 2:13
  some sort
• 2:14
  of legacy?
• 2:15
  And how
• 2:16
  am I
• 2:16
  going
• 2:16
  to move
• 2:17
  through
• 2:17
  this with
• 2:18
  grace
• 2:18
  and
• 2:19
  beauty?
• 2:19
  And,
• 2:20
  yeah,
• 2:21
  I did
• 2:21
  not.
• 2:22
  I did not
• 2:22
  move
• 2:23
  through it
• 2:23
  with
• 2:23
  grace
• 2:23
  and
• 2:24
  beauty.
• 2:24
  And part
• 2:25
  of that,
• 2:26
  because
• 2:26
  you're
• 2:26
  not
• 2:27
  supposed
• 2:27
  to.
• 2:28
  So
• 2:28
  there's
• 2:29
  a big
• 2:29
  grieving
• 2:30
  process
• 2:31
  in all of
• 2:31
  this.
• 2:32
  And the
• 2:32
  grieving
• 2:33
  process
• 2:33
  is what
• 2:35
  I didn't
• 2:35
  do.
• 2:37
  So I was
• 2:38
  diagnosed
• 2:38
  and I was
• 2:39
  like,
• 2:39
  you know
• 2:39
  what?
• 2:39
  All right.
• 2:40
  What do you do
• 2:40
  when
• 2:41
  you have
• 2:41
  terrible
• 2:42
  stress
• 2:42
  in your life?
• 2:43
  Well,
• 2:43
  let's
• 2:43
  just talk
• 2:44
  one more
• 2:44
  thing on
• 2:44
  onto what
• 2:45
  you're
• 2:45
  doing.
• 2:45
  So
• 2:45
  I was like,
• 2:46
  all right,
• 2:47
  I've
• 2:47
  always
• 2:47
  wanted to
• 2:47
  get a PhD,
• 2:48
  so I'm
• 2:48
  going
• 2:48
  to go
• 2:48
  get a,
• 2:49
  and I got
• 2:49
  very busy
• 2:50
  with
• 2:50
  school
• 2:51
  and
• 2:52
  in my research
• 2:53
  and,
• 2:54
  we had
• 2:54
  just
• 2:54
  bought
• 2:54
  a new
• 2:55
  home,
• 2:55
  me and my
• 2:56
  now
• 2:56
  ex-husband,
• 2:58
  we had
• 2:58
  just
• 2:58
  bought a
• 2:58
  home,
• 2:59
  and I was
• 3:00
  I had
• 3:00
  been
• 3:01
  feeling
• 3:01
  pretty
• 3:01
  content
• 3:02
  about
• 3:02
  things.
• 3:03
  And so
• 3:03
  I was
• 3:04
  working
• 3:04
  very hard
• 3:04
  on my
• 3:05
  research,
• 3:05
  and I was
• 3:06
  being
• 3:06
  what I
• 3:07
  thought
• 3:07
  was a
• 3:07
  great
• 3:07
  mom.
• 3:08
  And
• 3:09
  I was going
• 3:09
  around
• 3:09
  talking
• 3:10
  about
• 3:10
  resilience
• 3:11
  and, and,
• 3:12
  dealing
• 3:13
  with
• 3:13
  cancer.
• 3:13
  And I was
• 3:14
  being
• 3:14
  very,
• 3:14
  very
• 3:14
  optimistic
• 3:15
  because,
• 3:15
  again,
• 3:16
  I thought
• 3:16
  that
• 3:17
  the way
• 3:17
  that
• 3:17
  you're
• 3:17
  supposed
• 3:18
  to deal
• 3:18
  with this
• 3:18
  is to
• 3:19
  just kind
• 3:19
  of be
• 3:20
  a vision
• 3:21
  of
• 3:21
  strength
• 3:21
  and
• 3:22
  grace.
• 3:22
  And about
• 3:23
  three
• 3:24
  years
• 3:24
  later,
• 3:24
  my life
• 3:25
  turned
• 3:25
  into an
• 3:25
  absolute
• 3:26
  dumpster
• 3:26
  fire.
• 3:27
  And
• 3:28
  that was
• 3:28
  because
• 3:28
  I did not
• 3:29
  go
• 3:29
  through
• 3:30
  the grieving
• 3:31
  process,
• 3:32
  because I
• 3:33
  was still
• 3:34
  kind of
• 3:35
  my
• 3:35
  mindset
• 3:35
  was
• 3:36
  around
• 3:36
  this
• 3:36
  Western
• 3:37
  medicine.
• 3:37
  And,
• 3:38
  all right,
• 3:39
  pull yourself
• 3:39
  up
• 3:39
  by your
• 3:40
  bootstraps
• 3:41
  and set
• 3:43
  some
• 3:43
  goals
• 3:43
  and
• 3:44
  continue
• 3:45
  to live.
• 3:46
  And,
• 3:47
  you know,
• 3:47
  don't
• 3:47
  feel bad
• 3:48
  for
• 3:48
  yourself.
• 3:48
  Stay very
• 3:49
  optimistic.
• 3:51
  And
• 3:51
  that was
• 3:51
  a
• 3:51
  that was
• 3:52
  a really
• 3:52
  big
• 3:53
  mistake
• 3:53
  on
• 3:53
  my part
• 3:54
  because
• 3:54
  part
• 3:54
  of the
• 3:54
  grieving
• 3:55
  process,
• 3:55
  all a
• 3:56
  lot
• 3:56
  of the
• 3:56
  grieving
• 3:57
  process
• 3:57
  is just
• 3:58
  feeling
• 3:58
  awful.
• 3:59
  And it's
• 4:00
  being mad
• 4:01
  at the
• 4:01
  world
• 4:02
  and it's
• 4:02
  sloppy
• 4:03
  and
• 4:03
  it's messy.
• 4:04
  So when
• 4:04
  I talk
• 4:04
  to my
• 4:05
  clients
• 4:05
  now,
• 4:07
  I'd
• 4:07
  like to
• 4:07
  normalize
• 4:08
  that.
• 4:09
  You you
• 4:10
  can't
• 4:11
  just
• 4:11
  skip the
• 4:11
  grief
• 4:11
  part
• 4:12
  and you
• 4:13
  can't
• 4:13
  skip
• 4:14
  doing
• 4:14
  that
• 4:14
  really
• 4:14
  deep work
• 4:15
  and
• 4:15
  figuring out
• 4:16
  what's
• 4:16
  important
• 4:17
  because
• 4:18
  it's
• 4:18
  going to
• 4:18
  catch up
• 4:19
  with you.
• 4:20
  So
• 4:20
  in the meantime,
• 4:21
  you know,
• 4:21
  I've been
• 4:21
  doing
• 4:22
  everything
• 4:22
  right
• 4:23
  and
• 4:23
  raising
• 4:24
  money
• 4:24
  and
• 4:25
  with my family
• 4:26
  and doing
• 4:26
  little
• 4:26
  speaking
• 4:27
  gigs and
• 4:28
  was just
• 4:29
  feeling
• 4:29
  super
• 4:29
  good
• 4:30
  about,
• 4:30
  how
• 4:30
  I was doing things.
• 4:32
  And then
• 4:32
  it just
• 4:32
  blew up
• 4:33
  in my
• 4:33
  face
• 4:34
  and I had
• 4:35
  a complete
• 4:36
  breakdown,
• 4:36
  which is
• 4:37
  not
• 4:37
  really a
• 4:38
  good look
• 4:38
  for a
• 4:38
  trauma
• 4:39
  therapist.
• 4:39
  And for
• 4:40
  someone
• 4:40
  who's
• 4:40
  supposed
• 4:40
  to be
• 4:41
  resilient.
• 4:43
  and
• 4:45
  I
• 4:46
  remember
• 4:46
  when I
• 4:47
  was
• 4:47
  having
• 4:47
  this
• 4:47
  mental
• 4:48
  breakdown,
• 4:49
  I was talking
• 4:50
  to my
• 4:50
  little
• 4:50
  sister,
• 4:51
  and I
• 4:51
  was
• 4:51
  saying,
• 4:52
  oh, my
• 4:52
  gosh,
• 4:53
  I'm
• 4:53
  supposed
• 4:53
  to be
• 4:53
  like,
• 4:54
  this
• 4:54
  really
• 4:54
  strong
• 4:54
  person
• 4:55
  who got
• 4:56
  through
• 4:56
  this very
• 4:57
  challenging
• 4:58
  event
• 4:58
  and
• 4:58
  did it
• 4:59
  with so
• 4:59
  much
• 4:59
  grace
• 5:00
  and
• 5:00
  dignity,
• 5:01
  and here
• 5:01
  I am,
• 5:02
  I'm
• 5:02
  separated
• 5:03
  from
• 5:03
  my husband.
• 5:04
  I'm.
• 5:05
  I moved
• 5:05
  into my
• 5:06
  older
• 5:06
  brother's
• 5:07
  basement,
• 5:08
  which
• 5:08
  at the age of 40
• 5:09
  something,
• 5:10
  is
• 5:10
  not also
• 5:10
  not
• 5:11
  a very
• 5:11
  good
• 5:11
  look.
• 5:12
  and I'm
• 5:13
  just
• 5:13
  depressed.
• 5:14
  I think
• 5:14
  I have
• 5:14
  three
• 5:14
  different
• 5:15
  therapists
• 5:15
  and
• 5:15
  trying
• 5:16
  to figure
• 5:16
  things out
• 5:17
  because
• 5:18
  I hadn't
• 5:18
  figured
• 5:19
  them out
• 5:19
  earlier,
• 5:20
  and my
• 5:20
  sister
• 5:21
  said, and
• 5:22
  my sister
• 5:22
  goes,
• 5:23
  well,
• 5:23
  you know,
• 5:24
  there's
• 5:24
  this
• 5:24
  part of
• 5:25
  your story,
• 5:26
  this doesn't
• 5:27
  mean that
• 5:27
  you
• 5:27
  failed.
• 5:27
  This is
• 5:28
  part
• 5:28
  of the
• 5:28
  story
• 5:29
  of
• 5:29
  resilience.
• 5:29
  And I
• 5:30
  was okay.
• 5:31
  And
• 5:31
  here's
• 5:31
  another
• 5:31
  thing.
• 5:31
  I also
• 5:32
  this is
• 5:33
  really,
• 5:33
  really
• 5:34
  not a
• 5:34
  good look.
• 5:35
  So
• 5:36
  as many of
• 5:36
  you know,
• 5:37
  when you,
• 5:38
  when you
• 5:39
  are going
• 5:39
  through
• 5:39
  something
• 5:39
  very
• 5:40
  traumatic,
• 5:40
  sometimes
• 5:41
  you
• 5:41
  revert
• 5:41
  back to
• 5:42
  some
• 5:42
  really
• 5:42
  bad
• 5:42
  coping
• 5:43
  mechanism.
• 5:43
  So after
• 5:44
  having
• 5:44
  not
• 5:45
  smoked
• 5:45
  for many,
• 5:46
  many
• 5:46
  years,
• 5:47
  somewhere
• 5:47
  in there
• 5:48
  I decided
• 5:48
  that I'd
• 5:48
  start
• 5:49
  smoking
• 5:49
  again.
• 5:50
  And with
• 5:50
  cancer
• 5:50
  again.
• 5:51
  Not
• 5:51
  a very
• 5:51
  good look.
• 5:52
  So it was
• 5:52
  really,
• 5:53
  really
• 5:53
  bad.
• 5:53
  I was
• 5:53
  smoking a
• 5:54
  cigaret,
• 5:54
  just
• 5:54
  feeling
• 5:55
  terrible
• 5:55
  for
• 5:55
  myself,
• 5:56
  and just
• 5:57
  feeling
• 5:57
  like
• 5:57
  I was
• 5:58
  an
• 5:58
  absolute
• 5:58
  disaster.
• 5:59
  I took a break
• 6:00
  from my
• 6:00
  PhD
• 6:01
  program
• 6:01
  in
• 6:02
  order to have,
• 6:02
  I don't
• 6:03
  know what
• 6:03
  number of
• 6:04
  mental
• 6:05
  crisis
• 6:05
  that was.
• 6:06
  and
• 6:06
  it was my
• 6:07
  little
• 6:07
  sister
• 6:07
  who said,
• 6:08
  okay,
• 6:08
  this is
• 6:08
  just
• 6:08
  part of
• 6:09
  your story.
• 6:10
  And so
• 6:11
  I went
• 6:11
  through
• 6:12
  this
• 6:12
  really
• 6:12
  rough,
• 6:13
  terrible
• 6:13
  time in
• 6:13
  a
• 6:13
  separation
• 6:15
  and lost
• 6:15
  friends.
• 6:16
  People
• 6:16
  were
• 6:17
  angry
• 6:17
  with me.
• 6:18
  I was angry
• 6:19
  with myself.
• 6:20
  I wasn't
• 6:20
  super
• 6:21
  happy
• 6:21
  with
• 6:21
  where I
• 6:22
  was going
• 6:22
  in
• 6:22
  my career.
• 6:23
  I wasn't
• 6:23
  super
• 6:23
  happy
• 6:24
  about
• 6:24
  where I
• 6:24
  was
• 6:24
  teaching.
• 6:26
  And so
• 6:26
  from
• 6:27
  there,
• 6:27
  I just
• 6:27
  decided
• 6:28
  I'm going
• 6:28
  to be
• 6:28
  completely
• 6:29
  honest
• 6:30
  about
• 6:31
  what this
• 6:31
  whole
• 6:31
  resilience
• 6:32
  thing
• 6:32
  looks like.
• 6:33
  So
• 6:33
  it doesn't
• 6:33
  look like
• 6:35
  this.
• 6:36
  You know,
• 6:37
  easy,
• 6:38
  breezy,
• 6:38
  bounce
• 6:39
  back, do
• 6:39
  everything
• 6:40
  you've
• 6:40
  ever
• 6:40
  wanted
• 6:41
  to do,
• 6:41
  leave
• 6:41
  this
• 6:41
  beautiful
• 6:42
  legacy.
• 6:43
  You have
• 6:43
  a
• 6:43
  perfectly
• 6:44
  written
• 6:44
  will.
• 6:45
  It's ugly
• 6:46
  and
• 6:47
  it is.
• 6:47
  What does
• 6:48
  that say?
• 6:48
  Toxic
• 6:48
  positivity?
• 6:49
  Yes.
• 6:50
  Toxic
• 6:50
  positivity.
• 6:51
  Exactly.
• 6:51
  it does
• 6:52
  not look
• 6:53
  good.
• 6:53
  And
• 6:53
  unless
• 6:54
  you're
• 6:54
  screwing
• 6:55
  up and
• 6:56
  doing
• 6:57
  stupid
• 6:57
  things.
• 6:58
  I mean,
• 6:58
  hopefully
• 6:58
  not life
• 6:59
  changing,
• 6:59
  stupid
• 7:00
  things,
• 7:00
  but,
• 7:01
  grieving
• 7:02
  is not
• 7:02
  supposed
• 7:02
  to be
• 7:03
  this
• 7:03
  this
• 7:03
  beautiful
• 7:04
  process.
• 7:05
  and sloppy,
• 7:08
  so now
• 7:09
  what
• 7:09
  I decided
• 7:10
  to do
• 7:10
  is
• 7:10
  just be
• 7:10
  very real
• 7:11
  about
• 7:12
  what
• 7:12
  this whole
• 7:12
  thing
• 7:13
  looks like.
• 7:14
  Because
• 7:14
  I
• 7:14
  don't
• 7:14
  want
• 7:15
  people
• 7:15
  to think,
• 7:15
  and I
• 7:15
  certainly
• 7:16
  don't
• 7:16
  want my
• 7:16
  clients
• 7:16
  to think
• 7:17
  or my
• 7:17
  students
• 7:17
  to think.
• 7:18
  And when
• 7:18
  I do
• 7:19
  my research,
• 7:19
  I don't want
• 7:19
  anybody
• 7:20
  to think
• 7:21
  that
• 7:21
  there's
• 7:21
  a
• 7:21
  particular
• 7:22
  way that
• 7:22
  you're
• 7:22
  supposed
• 7:23
  to get
• 7:23
  through this,
• 7:24
  because
• 7:25
  you are
• 7:25
  going to
• 7:25
  fall apart
• 7:26
  and
• 7:26
  you are
• 7:26
  going
• 7:27
  to be a mess.
• 7:27
  And
• 7:28
  if you're
• 7:28
  really
• 7:28
  examining
• 7:29
  your life
• 7:31
  and
• 7:31
  living
• 7:32
  your best
• 7:32
  life,
• 7:32
  you're
• 7:33
  going
• 7:33
  to make
• 7:33
  some
• 7:33
  changes.
• 7:34
  And
• 7:34
  there are going
• 7:34
  to be,
• 7:35
  especially
• 7:35
  if you're
• 7:35
  sort of a
• 7:36
  people
• 7:36
  pleaser
• 7:36
  like
• 7:37
  I am,
• 7:38
  you're
• 7:38
  going
• 7:38
  to have
• 7:38
  people
• 7:38
  angry
• 7:39
  and upset
• 7:39
  with you
• 7:40
  and
• 7:40
  questioning
• 7:40
  you.
• 7:41
  And, I
• 7:42
  definitely
• 7:42
  experience
• 7:43
  a lot of that,
• 7:43
  that I'm
• 7:44
  sort of
• 7:45
  in this
• 7:45
  pursuit
• 7:46
  of living
• 7:46
  my best
• 7:46
  life and
• 7:47
  figuring out
• 7:47
  what
• 7:48
  my best
• 7:48
  skills
• 7:48
  are
• 7:49
  and how
• 7:49
  I can
• 7:50
  help
• 7:50
  people.
• 7:51
  And I
• 7:51
  thought
• 7:52
  that just
• 7:52
  being
• 7:52
  brutally
• 7:53
  honest
• 7:53
  about
• 7:54
  this
• 7:54
  whole
• 7:54
  thing,
• 7:55
  was the
• 7:55
  best idea.
• 7:56
  So
• 7:57
  my idea of
• 7:57
  resilience
• 7:58
  now is
• 7:59
  going
• 8:00
  through a
• 8:00
  grieving
• 8:01
  process
• 8:02
  and
• 8:02
  having
• 8:03
  your
• 8:03
  support
• 8:04
  system
• 8:04
  with you,
• 8:05
  and
• 8:05
  they're
• 8:06
  not
• 8:06
  always
• 8:06
  going to
• 8:06
  be happy
• 8:06
  with you.
• 8:07
  And
• 8:07
  I also
• 8:07
  found
• 8:08
  that
• 8:08
  when
• 8:08
  you're
• 8:08
  truly
• 8:08
  grieving,
• 8:09
  a
• 8:09
  lot of anger
• 8:10
  comes
• 8:10
  out.
• 8:11
  And
• 8:11
  sometimes
• 8:12
  you push
• 8:12
  your
• 8:12
  support
• 8:13
  system
• 8:13
  away
• 8:15
  and your
• 8:15
  support
• 8:16
  system
• 8:16
  can be
• 8:16
  angry
• 8:17
  with you.
• 8:18
  And my
• 8:18
  biggest
• 8:18
  support
• 8:18
  system is
• 8:19
  my
• 8:19
  family.
• 8:20
  And I
• 8:20
  pissed
• 8:20
  them off
• 8:21
  many,
• 8:21
  many
• 8:21
  times
• 8:22
  through this.
• 8:23
  but
• 8:23
  your support
• 8:23
  system
• 8:24
  will also
• 8:24
  understand
• 8:25
  that this
• 8:25
  is a
• 8:25
  really
• 8:26
  difficult
• 8:26
  diagnosis,
• 8:27
  and it's
• 8:28
  a scary process.
• 8:29
  And
• 8:29
  this is
• 8:29
  not like
• 8:30
  other
• 8:30
  cancers,
• 8:31
  where
• 8:31
  at some
• 8:31
  point
• 8:32
  you hit
• 8:32
  remission
• 8:34
  and
• 8:34
  you can
• 8:34
  stop
• 8:34
  worrying.
• 8:35
  So
• 8:37
  your support
• 8:38
  system
• 8:39
  hopefully
• 8:40
  will show
• 8:41
  some
• 8:41
  grace
• 8:42
  around
• 8:42
  all the times
• 8:43
  that you
• 8:43
  mess up
• 8:44
  and the
• 8:45
  different
• 8:45
  decisions
• 8:45
  that you
• 8:46
  make.
• 8:47
  because
• 8:47
  not
• 8:47
  everybody
• 8:47
  has their
• 8:48
  mortality
• 8:48
  thrown
• 8:49
  out in
• 8:49
  front of them.
• 8:50
  So
• 8:51
  grief
• 8:52
  is very,
• 8:53
  very,
• 8:53
  very important.
• 8:54
  And
• 8:56
  when I started
• 8:57
  one and
• 8:57
  this was
• 8:58
  a few
• 8:58
  years
• 8:58
  ago,
• 8:59
  you'll be
• 8:59
  happy
• 9:00
  to know
• 9:00
  or I'm,
• 9:01
  I'm happy
• 9:01
  to know
• 9:02
  that,
• 9:02
  with
• 9:02
  the help
• 9:02
  of my
• 9:03
  support
• 9:03
  system,
• 9:03
  I got back
• 9:04
  on my feet
• 9:04
  again.
• 9:05
  I got back
• 9:05
  into my
• 9:06
  PhD
• 9:06
  program.
• 9:07
  I'm
• 9:07
  working
• 9:07
  on my
• 9:08
  dissertation.
• 9:08
  So
• 9:09
  right now
• 9:09
  I'm
• 9:09
  actually
• 9:10
  shamelessly
• 9:10
  recruiting
• 9:11
  participants
• 9:12
  to
• 9:12
  help me
• 9:12
  with
• 9:12
  my research
• 9:13
  and to be
• 9:13
  part of
• 9:14
  my
• 9:14
  research.
• 9:15
  It
• 9:15
  ravaged
• 9:15
  my family.
• 9:17
  I
• 9:17
  remember
• 9:17
  my mom
• 9:18
  being
• 9:18
  in the
• 9:18
  fetal
• 9:19
  position
• 9:19
  when I was
• 9:20
  going
• 9:20
  through
• 9:20
  treatment.
• 9:21
  She was
• 9:21
  so
• 9:21
  traumatized.
• 9:22
  My sister
• 9:23
  turned
• 9:23
  into,
• 9:24
  like,
• 9:24
  nurse
• 9:25
  mode
• 9:25
  to take
• 9:25
  care
• 9:25
  of me,
• 9:26
  and my
• 9:26
  brother
• 9:26
  very
• 9:26
  graciously
• 9:27
  opened
• 9:27
  his home
• 9:28
  while
• 9:28
  I was
• 9:28
  having a
• 9:29
  nervous
• 9:29
  breakdown.
• 9:31
  So it
• 9:32
  is not.
• 9:32
  It's
• 9:33
  not a
• 9:33
  beautiful
• 9:34
  process
• 9:34
  all of the time,
• 9:35
  but
• 9:35
  hopefully
• 9:35
  you have
• 9:36
  people
• 9:36
  who can
• 9:36
  help you
• 9:37
  through
• 9:37
  that
• 9:37
  grieving
• 9:37
  process,
• 9:38
  and then
• 9:39
  you get
• 9:39
  back on
• 9:39
  your feet
• 9:41
  and then
• 9:41
  you're
• 9:41
  actually
• 9:42
  because
• 9:42
  you went
• 9:42
  through
• 9:43
  this
• 9:43
  grieving
• 9:43
  process,
• 9:44
  you're a
• 9:44
  better person
• 9:45
  and
• 9:45
  you're a
• 9:46
  wiser
• 9:47
  person
• 9:48
  than you
• 9:48
  were
• 9:49
  previously.
• 9:50
  So
• 9:50
  I am not
• 9:51
  that
• 9:52
  whole
• 9:52
  toxic
• 9:53
  positivity,
• 9:54
  cancer
• 9:54
  was a
• 9:54
  gift.
• 9:55
  Sometimes
• 9:55
  I feel
• 9:55
  like
• 9:56
  that,
• 9:56
  honestly,
• 9:56
  because
• 9:57
  even
• 9:57
  though,
• 9:58
  you know,
• 9:58
  after
• 9:59
  I was
• 9:59
  diagnosed,
• 9:59
  I lost
• 10:00
  so
• 10:00
  much of
• 10:00
  my
• 10:00
  vision.
• 10:01
  I have
• 10:02
  random
• 10:02
  panic
• 10:03
  attacks,
• 10:04
  I have anxiety,
• 10:05
  some
• 10:05
  amazing
• 10:05
  things
• 10:06
  have come
• 10:07
  from my
• 10:07
  diagnosis
• 10:08
  that
• 10:08
  I know
• 10:09
  would not
• 10:09
  have happened
• 10:10
  had I not
• 10:10
  been
• 10:10
  diagnosed.
• 10:13
  So
• 10:13
  I always
• 10:13
  think
• 10:13
  about,
• 10:14
  Elizabeth
• 10:15
  Kubler-Ross.
• 10:16
  And
• 10:16
  if you've
• 10:16
  ever
• 10:16
  taken
• 10:17
  a look,
• 10:17
  if
• 10:17
  you've ever
• 10:18
  taken
• 10:18
  a psychology
• 10:19
  for us,
• 10:20
  you know,
• 10:20
  she has
• 10:20
  those
• 10:21
  famous
• 10:21
  the
• 10:22
  the stages
• 10:23
  of grief
• 10:23
  and loss
• 10:24
  and
• 10:26
  they're
• 10:26
  very,
• 10:27
  very neat.
• 10:28
  And
• 10:28
  I think
• 10:28
  there
• 10:29
  are 5
• 10:29
  or 6
• 10:29
  stages.
• 10:30
  There's
• 10:31
  anger
• 10:31
  and
• 10:31
  there's
• 10:32
  depression
• 10:33
  and
• 10:33
  there's
• 10:34
  bargaining.
• 10:34
  And
• 10:34
  finally
• 10:35
  there's
• 10:35
  acceptance.
• 10:37
  And when
• 10:38
  I was
• 10:38
  grieving,
• 10:40
  I just
• 10:41
  remember
• 10:42
  thinking
• 10:42
  very
• 10:43
  sarcastically,
• 10:44
  like
• 10:44
  Elizabeth
• 10:45
  Kubler-Ross
• 10:45
  never
• 10:46
  had in
• 10:46
  her
• 10:46
  stages
• 10:47
  of grief
• 10:48
  when
• 10:48
  people
• 10:48
  don't
• 10:48
  understand
• 10:49
  your
• 10:49
  diagnosis.
• 10:50
  And so
• 10:51
  you drive
• 10:51
  to the
• 10:52
  nearest
• 10:52
  dive bar
• 10:53
  where
• 10:53
  the people
• 10:54
  who've
• 10:54
  had
• 10:54
  terrible,
• 10:55
  horrible
• 10:55
  lives are
• 10:55
  going
• 10:56
  to be
• 10:56
  your best
• 10:56
  friend.
• 10:56
  You
• 10:57
  barely
• 10:57
  get
• 10:57
  to the bar
• 10:58
  and
• 10:59
  you
• 10:59
  talk to
• 11:00
  the
• 11:00
  bartender
• 11:00
  and
• 11:00
  the bartender
• 11:01
  because
• 11:02
  he
• 11:02
  listens
• 11:02
  to you.
• 11:02
  Everybody's
• 11:03
  problems
• 11:04
  gives you
• 11:04
  some sympathy.
• 11:05
  and then
• 11:06
  your family
• 11:06
  doesn't
• 11:06
  know
• 11:06
  where
• 11:07
  you are,
• 11:07
  and they
• 11:08
  drive
• 11:08
  around
• 11:09
  frantically
• 11:09
  trying to
• 11:10
  find you.
• 11:11
  and then
• 11:11
  they have
• 11:12
  to take
• 11:12
  you home.
• 11:13
  So
• 11:14
  there was
• 11:14
  a lot of
• 11:14
  really
• 11:15
  not very
• 11:16
  flattering
• 11:16
  experiences
• 11:17
  as I was
• 11:18
  going
• 11:18
  through this,
• 11:20
  but
• 11:20
  I learned
• 11:20
  to give
• 11:21
  myself
• 11:21
  some grace
• 11:22
  because
• 11:22
  this is
• 11:23
  something
• 11:23
  that not
• 11:24
  everybody
• 11:24
  goes
• 11:24
  through.
• 11:25
  So
• 11:25
  Elizabeth
• 11:25
  Kubler-Ross
• 11:26
  is very
• 11:26
  new
• 11:27
  stages,
• 11:28
  of grief
• 11:28
  and loss
• 11:29
  was just
• 11:30
  I just
• 11:30
  remember
• 11:31
  thinking,
• 11:31
  this is
• 11:32
  so
• 11:32
  ridiculous.
• 11:34
  Let's
• 11:34
  see in
• 11:34
  this
• 11:35
  community,
• 11:35
  keep it
• 11:35
  real.
• 11:38
  I should
• 11:38
  keep it
• 11:39
  real.
• 11:40
  I do,
• 11:40
  and I,
• 11:41
  I really
• 11:42
  did
• 11:42
  have a
• 11:42
  terrible time,
• 11:43
  but
• 11:43
  I look
• 11:43
  at my life
• 11:44
  now,
• 11:45
  and I
• 11:45
  was
• 11:45
  forced
• 11:46
  to.
• 11:47
  Well,
• 11:47
  I wasn't
• 11:47
  forced
• 11:48
  to.
• 11:48
  I could have
• 11:48
  kept
• 11:48
  living
• 11:49
  as a
• 11:49
  people
• 11:49
  pleaser
• 11:50
  and
• 11:50
  trying
• 11:51
  to do
• 11:51
  what I
• 11:51
  thought
• 11:52
  was
• 11:52
  what was
• 11:53
  expected
• 11:53
  of me.
• 11:54
  And
• 11:55
  I took
• 11:55
  a very close
• 11:56
  look at how
• 11:58
  I was living
• 11:59
  and
• 11:59
  what I
• 11:59
  was
• 11:59
  doing,
• 12:00
  and
• 12:00
  decided
• 12:00
  that
• 12:01
  I wanted
• 12:01
  to,
• 12:03
  first of
• 12:04
  all,
• 12:04
  start
• 12:05
  living
• 12:05
  for
• 12:05
  myself
• 12:06
  and
• 12:06
  choosing myself
• 12:07
  because
• 12:08
  I had as
• 12:08
  a
• 12:08
  therapist,
• 12:09
  you know,
• 12:10
  you do
• 12:10
  a lot of
• 12:10
  helping
• 12:11
  other
• 12:11
  people
• 12:11
  and
• 12:11
  focusing
• 12:12
  on
• 12:12
  others.
• 12:14
  you know,
• 12:14
  and I was
• 12:15
  kind of
• 12:15
  that
• 12:15
  person
• 12:16
  who was
• 12:17
  the
• 12:18
  was
• 12:19
  kind of
• 12:19
  the
• 12:19
  peacemaker
• 12:20
  or,
• 12:21
  helped
• 12:22
  people
• 12:22
  with
• 12:22
  conflict
• 12:23
  whenever
• 12:23
  our family
• 12:24
  had
• 12:24
  conflict.
• 12:25
  and I
• 12:25
  went from
• 12:26
  that to
• 12:27
  I just
• 12:27
  I'm going
• 12:28
  to
• 12:28
  choose me
• 12:28
  because
• 12:29
  I really
• 12:29
  want
• 12:30
  to live.
• 12:30
  And so
• 12:31
  I made
• 12:31
  a couple
• 12:31
  of very
• 12:32
  big
• 12:32
  decisions
• 12:33
  to live
• 12:33
  my best
• 12:34
  life,
• 12:35
  doing
• 12:35
  as little
• 12:35
  damage
• 12:36
  to others
• 12:36
  as I
• 12:37
  could.
• 12:38
  And, had
• 12:39
  I not
• 12:40
  had that
• 12:40
  diagnosis,
• 12:41
  I
• 12:41
  wouldn't
• 12:41
  be here
• 12:42
  right
• 12:43
  now.
• 12:43
  So
• 12:44
  I guess
• 12:44
  I'm going
• 12:44
  to talk
• 12:45
  about
• 12:45
  the gift
• 12:45
  of
• 12:45
  cancer.
• 12:46
  That is
• 12:47
  one
• 12:48
  of the
• 12:48
  gifts.
• 12:48
  But on
• 12:49
  the other
• 12:50
  hand,
• 12:52
  there's
• 12:52
  some
• 12:52
  terrible
• 12:52
  things
• 12:53
  that come
• 12:53
  with
• 12:53
  cancer,
• 12:55
  and
• 12:55
  resilience
• 12:56
  is all
• 12:56
  about
• 12:58
  taking
• 12:58
  those
• 12:58
  terrible
• 12:59
  things
• 12:59
  head on,
• 13:01
  and
• 13:02
  there's
• 13:03
  no
• 13:03
  certain
• 13:03
  way, no
• 13:04
  particular
• 13:05
  way
• 13:05
  to deal
• 13:05
  with
• 13:06
  them.
• 13:06
  There's
• 13:06
  not any
• 13:07
  neat
• 13:07
  steps.
• 13:08
  there's
• 13:09
  not any
• 13:09
  particular
• 13:10
  form
• 13:10
  of therapy
• 13:11
  that's
• 13:11
  going to
• 13:11
  work.
• 13:12
  There's
• 13:13
  not
• 13:13
  you know,
• 13:13
  I don't
• 13:14
  necessarily
• 13:14
  everybody's
• 13:15
  different.
• 13:15
  And,
• 13:16
  I know
• 13:17
  that
• 13:17
  exercise
• 13:18
  and diet
• 13:18
  is
• 13:18
  very important,
• 13:19
  but
• 13:20
  I'm not
• 13:20
  an exerciser
• 13:21
  and I'm
• 13:21
  not into
• 13:22
  diet.
• 13:22
  And,
• 13:23
  I like to
• 13:23
  drink my
• 13:24
  red wine,
• 13:25
  and
• 13:26
  I like to
• 13:26
  have fun.
• 13:27
  And,
• 13:28
  you know,
• 13:28
  I still
• 13:28
  try to
• 13:28
  be sort
• 13:29
  of healthy,
• 13:30
  but
• 13:30
  I knew
• 13:30
  that in
• 13:31
  order
• 13:32
  for me
• 13:32
  to stay
• 13:32
  healthy
• 13:33
  and
• 13:33
  to fight
• 13:34
  this,
• 13:34
  that
• 13:35
  I was
• 13:35
  going
• 13:35
  to just
• 13:35
  I was
• 13:36
  I needed
• 13:36
  to be
• 13:37
  my
• 13:37
  authentic
• 13:37
  real
• 13:37
  self.
• 13:38
  And I
• 13:39
  needed to
• 13:39
  start
• 13:40
  taking
• 13:40
  care of
• 13:40
  myself
• 13:41
  emotionally.
• 13:42
  And I
• 13:42
  needed to
• 13:43
  manage
• 13:43
  my stress
• 13:44
  and have
• 13:45
  more fun
• 13:45
  events in
• 13:46
  my life
• 13:46
  and be
• 13:47
  with
• 13:47
  people
• 13:47
  who I
• 13:48
  wanted
• 13:48
  to be
• 13:48
  with, not
• 13:49
  that
• 13:49
  I had to
• 13:50
  deal
• 13:50
  with. And
• 13:53
  when I
• 13:53
  remember
• 13:55
  I was
• 13:55
  part of
• 13:56
  a support
• 13:56
  group,
• 13:57
  an ocular
• 13:57
  melanoma
• 13:58
  support
• 13:58
  group,
• 13:59
  and I
• 13:59
  told this
• 13:59
  story
• 14:00
  a lot
• 14:00
  because
• 14:01
  it was
• 14:01
  it's
• 14:02
  one of
• 14:02
  the
• 14:02
  things
• 14:02
  that I
• 14:02
  remember
• 14:03
  very
• 14:03
  clearly,
• 14:04
  and just
• 14:05
  laughing
• 14:06
  and
• 14:06
  fighting.
• 14:08
  Yes.
• 14:08
  I did
• 14:09
  not
• 14:09
  follow
• 14:09
  any of
• 14:10
  the rules
• 14:10
  with the
• 14:11
  very
• 14:11
  specific
• 14:12
  cancer
• 14:12
  rules.
• 14:13
  Eat a
• 14:13
  certain
• 14:14
  diet,
• 14:14
  don't eat
• 14:15
  this
• 14:15
  stuff.
• 14:15
  Don't
• 14:15
  do this.
• 14:16
  Make sure
• 14:16
  you're
• 14:17
  doing
• 14:17
  that.
• 14:17
  I don't
• 14:18
  pay
• 14:18
  attention
• 14:18
  to any of
• 14:19
  that.
• 14:19
  I was like,
• 14:19
  all right,
• 14:20
  what?
• 14:20
  What's
• 14:20
  important
• 14:21
  to me?
• 14:21
  And
• 14:22
  what do
• 14:22
  I need
• 14:22
  to do
• 14:23
  just
• 14:23
  to be
• 14:24
  happy
• 14:24
  and to
• 14:24
  thrive?
• 14:25
  And it's
• 14:25
  working.
• 14:25
  I don't
• 14:26
  know, I'm
• 14:26
  not doing
• 14:26
  anything
• 14:27
  healthy.
• 14:27
  I'm not
• 14:27
  following
• 14:28
  all the
• 14:28
  guidelines
• 14:29
  that I'm
• 14:29
  doing
• 14:29
  what's
• 14:29
  good
• 14:29
  for me,
• 14:30
  which is
• 14:31
  working
• 14:31
  in
• 14:31
  a field
• 14:32
  that I
• 14:32
  love,
• 14:33
  treating
• 14:33
  my clients
• 14:34
  in a way
• 14:34
  that I
• 14:35
  think
• 14:35
  is
• 14:35
  effective.
• 14:37
  doing
• 14:37
  the
• 14:37
  research
• 14:38
  that I
• 14:38
  think is
• 14:38
  needed
• 14:40
  and
• 14:41
  living
• 14:42
  living
• 14:42
  the life
• 14:43
  that I
• 14:43
  want,
• 14:43
  not
• 14:44
  that's
• 14:44
  expected
• 14:44
  of me.
• 14:46
  So
• 14:47
  this
• 14:47
  whole
• 14:48
  the
• 14:48
  grieving
• 14:48
  process,
• 14:49
  the
• 14:49
  healing
• 14:49
  process,
• 14:50
  figuring out
• 14:50
  life is
• 14:51
  so
• 14:51
  different
• 14:52
  for
• 14:52
  everybody.
• 14:53
  And I
• 14:53
  think as
• 14:54
  human
• 14:54
  beings,
• 14:54
  and
• 14:54
  I've learned
• 14:55
  this as a
• 14:55
  long time
• 14:56
  therapist,
• 14:57
  we
• 14:57
  like to
• 14:57
  make
• 14:58
  order and
• 14:58
  sense
• 14:59
  of things.
• 14:59
  And so
• 15:00
  we use
• 15:00
  a lot
• 15:00
  of
• 15:00
  pigeonholes
• 15:01
  and
• 15:01
  we like to
• 15:01
  say,
• 15:02
  okay,
• 15:02
  this is the right
• 15:02
  way to do
• 15:03
  things.
• 15:03
  This is the
• 15:03
  wrong way
• 15:04
  to do
• 15:04
  things.
• 15:04
  Here's
• 15:04
  what you
• 15:05
  should
• 15:05
  do.
• 15:05
  Here's
• 15:05
  what you
• 15:06
  shouldn't
• 15:06
  do.
• 15:06
  When
• 15:07
  you're
• 15:07
  going
• 15:07
  through
• 15:07
  trauma.
• 15:07
  There's
• 15:08
  five
• 15:08
  steps
• 15:08
  you go through
• 15:10
  and
• 15:10
  there is
• 15:10
  no order
• 15:11
  and
• 15:11
  there is
• 15:11
  no logic.
• 15:12
  Because
• 15:13
  if
• 15:13
  we were
• 15:13
  looking
• 15:14
  and
• 15:14
  I know
• 15:14
  that you
• 15:14
  talked
• 15:15
  about this too,
• 15:15
  if
• 15:15
  we're looking
• 15:16
  at who
• 15:18
  survives
• 15:19
  and who
• 15:19
  doesn't
• 15:19
  survive,
• 15:20
  there's
• 15:21
  there's
• 15:21
  no
• 15:21
  certain
• 15:22
  recipe
• 15:23
  or
• 15:23
  strategy
• 15:23
  to,
• 15:24
  to
• 15:24
  follow.
• 15:25
  You know,
• 15:26
  I when
• 15:26
  I was
• 15:26
  first
• 15:27
  diagnosed,
• 15:27
  I was,
• 15:29
  a couple
• 15:29
  of people
• 15:30
  in the
• 15:30
  ocular
• 15:30
  melanoma
• 15:31
  community.
• 15:32
  we're
• 15:32
  going
• 15:32
  through
• 15:33
  some
• 15:33
  of the
• 15:33
  clinical
• 15:34
  trials,
• 15:34
  and I
• 15:35
  decided
• 15:35
  to opt
• 15:36
  out of them.
• 15:37
  I didn't
• 15:37
  start
• 15:38
  going to
• 15:38
  the gym
• 15:39
  and
• 15:39
  exercising
• 15:40
  more.
• 15:40
  I didn't
• 15:41
  start
• 15:41
  eating
• 15:41
  more
• 15:42
  arugula
• 15:42
  or kale.
• 15:43
  I hate
• 15:44
  that
• 15:44
  stuff.
• 15:45
  if
• 15:45
  anything,
• 15:46
  I started
• 15:47
  having
• 15:47
  more fun
• 15:48
  and
• 15:49
  living
• 15:49
  more
• 15:50
  purposefully
• 15:51
  and
• 15:52
  living
• 15:52
  in a way
• 15:53
  that
• 15:54
  I knew
• 15:54
  was best
• 15:54
  for me,
• 15:55
  which did
• 15:55
  not
• 15:56
  involve
• 15:56
  arugula
• 15:57
  or
• 15:58
  salads
• 15:59
  or,
• 16:00
  you know,
• 16:00
  three
• 16:00
  hour
• 16:00
  workouts
• 16:01
  at the gym.
• 16:01
  I hate
• 16:02
  that
• 16:02
  stuff.
• 16:03
  And I
• 16:03
  still do.
• 16:04
  And I'm
• 16:04
  not
• 16:04
  saying
• 16:05
  you
• 16:05
  should.
• 16:06
  You
• 16:06
  shouldn't
• 16:06
  be
• 16:06
  healthy
• 16:07
  in
• 16:07
  an
• 16:08
  exercise.
• 16:08
  I'm just
• 16:09
  saying
• 16:09
  everybody's
• 16:09
  different.
• 16:10
  And
• 16:10
  if you really
• 16:11
  do
• 16:11
  the hard
• 16:12
  work and
• 16:12
  listen to
• 16:13
  what
• 16:13
  it is
• 16:14
  that you
• 16:14
  need.
• 16:18
  Listen.
• 16:19
  Listen
• 16:19
  to what
• 16:19
  it is
• 16:20
  that
• 16:20
  that you
• 16:21
  really
• 16:21
  need.
• 16:22
  You.
• 16:23
  You're
• 16:23
  going
• 16:23
  to be
• 16:24
  a lot
• 16:24
  better.
• 16:25
  I don't,
• 16:25
  and
• 16:25
  there's
• 16:25
  no rhyme
• 16:26
  or reason
• 16:27
  for who
• 16:27
  gets
• 16:27
  to live
• 16:28
  and who
• 16:29
  dies from
• 16:30
  this
• 16:30
  disease.
• 16:31
  There's
• 16:31
  no
• 16:31
  there's
• 16:31
  not rhyme
• 16:32
  or reason
• 16:32
  to it.
• 16:34
  if
• 16:34
  I went by
• 16:35
  the
• 16:35
  statistics
• 16:36
  and my
• 16:36
  lifestyle,
• 16:37
  I should have been
• 16:37
  dead
• 16:38
  years
• 16:38
  ago.
• 16:39
  Like I
• 16:39
  sometimes
• 16:40
  I even
• 16:40
  have
• 16:41
  survivor's
• 16:41
  guilt.
• 16:41
  Which is
• 16:42
  another thing.
• 16:43
  I did
• 16:43
  not do
• 16:44
  all the
• 16:44
  things,
• 16:44
  the right
• 16:45
  things.
• 16:45
  I didn't
• 16:45
  do the
• 16:46
  clinical
• 16:46
  trials.
• 16:47
  I
• 16:47
  didn't go
• 16:47
  to the gym.
• 16:48
  I don't
• 16:48
  eat
• 16:48
  all the
• 16:49
  right
• 16:49
  foods.
• 16:49
  My little
• 16:50
  sister
• 16:51
  was
• 16:51
  constantly,
• 16:52
  trying to
• 16:53
  get me to
• 16:53
  eat
• 16:53
  broccoli.
• 16:54
  And I
• 16:54
  hate
• 16:54
  broccoli.
• 16:55
  I don't think
• 16:55
  I've had
• 16:56
  broccoli
• 16:57
  or a
• 16:57
  vegetable
• 16:57
  in
• 16:57
  maybe two
• 16:58
  months.
• 16:59
  So again,
• 16:59
  I am not.
• 17:04
  I'm sorry
• 17:04
  I'm
• 17:04
  cracking
• 17:05
  up at
• 17:05
  the
• 17:05
  comments.
• 17:06
  So,
• 17:07
  I try
• 17:07
  every now
• 17:08
  and again
• 17:08
  I try
• 17:08
  to eat
• 17:09
  something
• 17:09
  healthy,
• 17:09
  but
• 17:10
  basically
• 17:10
  right now
• 17:11
  I'm just
• 17:11
  doing
• 17:12
  what I
• 17:12
  love.
• 17:13
  I'm
• 17:13
  with my partner
• 17:14
  who has
• 17:16
  chosen,
• 17:16
  life,
• 17:17
  and
• 17:17
  she wants
• 17:18
  to thrive
• 17:19
  with me,
• 17:19
  and she,
• 17:20
  is
• 17:21
  extremely
• 17:22
  positive
• 17:22
  and I
• 17:24
  have
• 17:24
  found
• 17:24
  that
• 17:24
  when
• 17:24
  you have
• 17:25
  a partner
• 17:25
  in life
• 17:26
  and
• 17:26
  you're
• 17:27
  going
• 17:27
  through
• 17:27
  something
• 17:28
  like
• 17:28
  this,
• 17:28
  you have
• 17:29
  to be
• 17:29
  with
• 17:29
  someone
• 17:30
  who
• 17:30
  wants you
• 17:30
  to live
• 17:31
  and
• 17:32
  wants you
• 17:32
  to thrive
• 17:33
  because
• 17:34
  there are
• 17:34
  a lot
• 17:34
  of people
• 17:35
  in this world
• 17:36
  who want
• 17:36
  to find
• 17:37
  a reason
• 17:37
  to feel
• 17:38
  bad
• 17:38
  and to
• 17:39
  be
• 17:39
  miserable.
• 17:39
  So
• 17:40
  I found
• 17:41
  that
• 17:41
  surrounding
• 17:42
  myself
• 17:42
  with
• 17:42
  people
• 17:43
  who are
• 17:43
  positive,
• 17:44
  who are happy,
• 17:45
  who are
• 17:45
  going to
• 17:45
  accept me
• 17:46
  for who
• 17:46
  I am,
• 17:47
  has
• 17:47
  helped me
• 17:48
  to thrive.
• 17:49
  And I
• 17:49
  honestly
• 17:50
  try to
• 17:50
  do it
• 17:51
  with as
• 17:51
  little
• 17:51
  damage
• 17:51
  as possible
• 17:52
  because
• 17:52
  this
• 17:53
  whole,
• 17:53
  you know,
• 17:54
  focusing
• 17:54
  on myself
• 17:55
  as a
• 17:55
  therapist,
• 17:56
  was
• 17:57
  kind of
• 17:57
  foreign
• 17:57
  to me.
• 17:58
  And
• 17:58
  sometimes
• 17:58
  it feels
• 17:58
  very
• 17:59
  selfish
• 17:59
  to
• 17:59
  just say,
• 18:00
  I need to do
• 18:01
  me.
• 18:01
  I need to take me first.
• 18:02
  But I
• 18:03
  honestly
• 18:03
  think
• 18:03
  that's
• 18:03
  part of
• 18:04
  the reason
• 18:04
  that I'm
• 18:05
  alive
• 18:05
  today.
• 18:06
  So
• 18:06
  this is
• 18:07
  not a
• 18:07
  recipe
• 18:07
  for
• 18:08
  everybody.
• 18:09
  you know,
• 18:09
  I
• 18:10
  wear my.
• 18:11
  Oh, I
• 18:11
  kind of
• 18:11
  ventured
• 18:12
  off
• 18:12
  from the
• 18:12
  support
• 18:13
  group,
• 18:13
  but
• 18:14
  the online
• 18:14
  support
• 18:15
  group
• 18:15
  I belong
• 18:15
  to,
• 18:16
  I got
• 18:17
  really,
• 18:17
  really
• 18:17
  rebellious,
• 18:18
  and I was
• 18:18
  like, I,
• 18:19
  I lost
• 18:20
  vision in
• 18:20
  one of my eyes,
• 18:21
  but I'm
• 18:21
  still
• 18:21
  going
• 18:22
  to wear
• 18:22
  my
• 18:22
  stilettos
• 18:23
  and I'm
• 18:23
  still
• 18:24
  going to
• 18:24
  drink
• 18:24
  wine,
• 18:24
  and I'm
• 18:25
  still
• 18:25
  going to
• 18:25
  eat
• 18:25
  cheesecake.
• 18:26
  And
• 18:27
  someone else
• 18:28
  got on
• 18:29
  and just
• 18:29
  blasted
• 18:30
  me and
• 18:31
  was like,
• 18:33
  and was
• 18:33
  like,
• 18:34
  that's
• 18:35
  ridiculous.
• 18:35
  You're
• 18:35
  going to
• 18:36
  hurt
• 18:36
  yourself.
• 18:37
  And
• 18:37
  and your
• 18:37
  lifestyle
• 18:38
  is
• 18:38
  stupid.
• 18:39
  You
• 18:40
  shouldn't
• 18:40
  be
• 18:40
  talking
• 18:41
  to other
• 18:41
  people
• 18:41
  about
• 18:41
  this.
• 18:42
  and here
• 18:44
  I am
• 18:44
  still
• 18:45
  alive,
• 18:45
  wearing
• 18:46
  my high
• 18:46
  heels
• 18:47
  and
• 18:47
  eating
• 18:48
  what
• 18:48
  I want
• 18:48
  to eat
• 18:49
  and just
• 18:49
  being
• 18:49
  happy.
• 18:50
  So again,
• 18:51
  everybody's
• 18:52
  different.
• 18:52
  And
• 18:52
  this is
• 18:52
  what I've
• 18:53
  learned
• 18:53
  as a
• 18:53
  therapist.
• 18:54
  Everyone is different
• 18:55
  and
• 18:55
  there's a
• 18:55
  different
• 18:56
  recipe
• 18:56
  for
• 18:56
  everyone.
• 18:57
  There's
• 18:57
  different
• 18:58
  guidelines.
• 18:58
  So
• 18:59
  sometimes
• 18:59
  it's good
• 18:59
  to stop
• 19:00
  listening
• 19:00
  to
• 19:00
  the experts
• 19:01
  and
• 19:02
  listen to
• 19:02
  your own.
• 19:02
  gut
• 19:05
  you know,
• 19:05
  I think
• 19:06
  that
• 19:07
  having a
• 19:07
  therapist
• 19:08
  is
• 19:09
  crucial.
• 19:10
  I think
• 19:10
  everyone
• 19:11
  should
• 19:11
  have
• 19:11
  a good
• 19:12
  therapist.
• 19:12
  I might be
• 19:13
  biased.
• 19:13
  but
• 19:13
  I think
• 19:14
  that
• 19:15
  sometimes
• 19:15
  we put
• 19:16
  too much,
• 19:19
  too much
• 19:19
  of what
• 19:20
  we
• 19:20
  should be
• 19:20
  doing
• 19:21
  ourselves
• 19:21
  on the
• 19:22
  professionals
• 19:23
  we need
• 19:23
  to trust
• 19:23
  our own,
• 19:24
  gut
• 19:25
  we need
• 19:25
  to, live
• 19:26
  by our instincts.
• 19:27
  So
• 19:28
  this is
• 19:28
  what is
• 19:29
  called
• 19:29
  post-traumatic
• 19:30
  growth.
• 19:31
  Post-traumatic
• 19:32
  growth
• 19:32
  doesn't
• 19:33
  necessarily
• 19:33
  mean I'm
• 19:34
  going
• 19:34
  to go
• 19:35
  leave
• 19:35
  a legacy,
• 19:36
  right?
• 19:37
  A bunch
• 19:37
  of
• 19:37
  amazing
• 19:37
  research
• 19:38
  and die,
• 19:39
  and
• 19:39
  people
• 19:39
  are going
• 19:40
  to
• 19:40
  remember
• 19:40
  my name.
• 19:41
  post-traumatic
• 19:42
  growth
• 19:42
  is about
• 19:43
  being
• 19:43
  authentic
• 19:44
  and
• 19:45
  being real.
• 19:46
  And when
• 19:46
  you go
• 19:47
  through
• 19:47
  something
• 19:47
  difficult,
• 19:48
  you don't
• 19:48
  can
• 19:49
  decode
• 19:49
  it.
• 19:49
  You
• 19:49
  go out there
• 19:50
  and
• 19:50
  tell the truth
• 19:51
  about
• 19:51
  what
• 19:52
  the experience
• 19:52
  is,
• 19:52
  is like,
• 19:53
  so
• 19:53
  that when
• 19:53
  people do
• 19:54
  all
• 19:54
  of the
• 19:54
  fumbling
• 19:55
  around
• 19:55
  and make
• 19:56
  a bunch
• 19:56
  of
• 19:56
  mistakes
• 19:57
  and, you
• 19:58
  know,
• 19:59
  change
• 19:59
  who
• 19:59
  they are
• 20:00
  and go
• 20:00
  against
• 20:00
  their
• 20:01
  values,
• 20:01
  they know
• 20:01
  that
• 20:02
  this is a
• 20:02
  difficult
• 20:03
  thing.
• 20:03
  It's
• 20:04
  challenging,
• 20:05
  but it's
• 20:05
  okay.
• 20:06
  The way
• 20:07
  that
• 20:07
  you're
• 20:07
  grieving
• 20:07
  is okay.
• 20:10
  Love
• 20:10
  this.
• 20:11
  Katie,
• 20:11
  this is
• 20:11
  so good.
• 20:12
  I just wanted
• 20:12
  to just
• 20:12
  reiterate
• 20:13
  what you
• 20:13
  just said
• 20:14
  really
• 20:14
  fast.
• 20:14
  and I
• 20:15
  don't
• 20:15
  know
• 20:15
  if you
• 20:15
  have any
• 20:15
  other
• 20:15
  slides
• 20:16
  you
• 20:16
  wanted to
• 20:16
  pull up,
• 20:16
  but
• 20:16
  feel free
• 20:17
  to pull
• 20:17
  those up
• 20:17
  if you want to
• 20:18
  as well.
• 20:19
  but
• 20:19
  we have,
• 20:20
  like,
• 20:20
  the spot
• 20:20
  where
• 20:21
  you said,
• 20:21
  stop
• 20:21
  listening
• 20:22
  to
• 20:22
  experts
• 20:22
  and start
• 20:23
  listening
• 20:23
  to
• 20:23
  your own
• 20:23
  gut.
• 20:24
  And
• 20:24
  I just
• 20:24
  had that
• 20:25
  thought
• 20:25
  that,
• 20:25
  I think
• 20:25
  so often
• 20:26
  in
• 20:26
  our society,
• 20:27
  we
• 20:27
  grow up
• 20:28
  with this
• 20:28
  mentality
• 20:29
  that we
• 20:29
  have to
• 20:30
  look for
• 20:31
  some
• 20:31
  authority
• 20:31
  outside
• 20:32
  of
• 20:32
  ourselves.
• 20:33
  And
• 20:33
  I think
• 20:33
  learning
• 20:34
  to trust
• 20:34
  ourselves
• 20:35
  as
• 20:35
  our own
• 20:35
  authority
• 20:36
  and
• 20:36
  to do
• 20:36
  what
• 20:37
  eve said
• 20:37
  in our
• 20:37
  first
• 20:37
  session,
• 20:38
  to do
• 20:39
  what
• 20:39
  you've
• 20:39
  said
• 20:39
  in our
• 20:39
  first
• 20:39
  session,
• 20:40
  like,
• 20:40
  really
• 20:40
  just
• 20:41
  getting
• 20:41
  in the
• 20:41
  driver's
• 20:42
  seat
• 20:42
  and
• 20:42
  having
• 20:43
  that
• 20:43
  mentality
• 20:43
  of of
• 20:44
  making
• 20:44
  meaning
• 20:45
  in some
• 20:45
  capacity
• 20:46
  of
• 20:46
  your diagnosis
• 20:46
  so
• 20:46
  that it
• 20:47
  no longer
• 20:47
  is
• 20:47
  there's
• 20:48
  a victimizing thing.
• 20:49
  I think
• 20:49
  that
• 20:49
  there's
• 20:49
  so much
• 20:50
  power in
• 20:51
  kind of
• 20:51
  taking
• 20:51
  that
• 20:52
  authority
• 20:52
  back so
• 20:52
  that
• 20:53
  you do
• 20:53
  have the
• 20:53
  ability
• 20:54
  to hear
• 20:55
  what
• 20:55
  your gut
• 20:55
  is
• 20:55
  telling
• 20:56
  you.
• 20:56
  You need
• 20:57
  and to
• 20:57
  listen
• 20:57
  to it.
• 20:57
  Despite
• 20:58
  all
• 20:58
  of the
• 20:58
  external
• 20:59
  voices
• 20:59
  and
• 20:59
  all of the,
• 21:00
  you know,
• 21:00
  external
• 21:01
  voices
• 21:01
  of
• 21:01
  authority
• 21:02
  saying,
• 21:02
  no,
• 21:02
  no, no,
• 21:02
  no,
• 21:02
  no, no,
• 21:02
  no,
• 21:03
  that's
• 21:03
  that's
• 21:03
  wrong.
• 21:04
  Like,
• 21:04
  it's
• 21:05
  really
• 21:05
  just
• 21:05
  learning
• 21:05
  to trust
• 21:06
  yourself.
• 21:06
  and
• 21:06
  I think
• 21:06
  that
• 21:07
  that's,
• 21:07
  that's
• 21:07
  definitely,
• 21:08
  something
• 21:09
  that that
• 21:09
  comes
• 21:09
  with
• 21:09
  time,
• 21:10
  but
• 21:10
  it's so
• 21:10
  worth it.
• 21:11
  And I
• 21:12
  think
• 21:12
  when I'm
• 21:13
  talking
• 21:13
  about
• 21:13
  resilience,
• 21:14
  perhaps
• 21:14
  the most
• 21:15
  important thing
• 21:16
  right
• 21:16
  now, and
• 21:17
  I didn't
• 21:17
  know if I
• 21:17
  was
• 21:17
  going
• 21:18
  to tell
• 21:18
  this story
• 21:18
  because
• 21:19
  it's
• 21:19
  another
• 21:19
  ridiculous story,
• 21:20
  but it's
• 21:21
  a story
• 21:21
  of my
• 21:21
  own
• 21:22
  resilience
• 21:23
  that
• 21:23
  did not
• 21:23
  necessarily
• 21:24
  come from
• 21:24
  I'm
• 21:25
  getting
• 21:25
  a PhD
• 21:26
  after a
• 21:26
  cancer
• 21:26
  diagnosis,
• 21:27
  and I'm
• 21:27
  a trauma
• 21:28
  therapist,
• 21:28
  and I do
• 21:29
  all these
• 21:29
  speaking
• 21:30
  gigs and,
• 21:31
  all of
• 21:32
  where out
• 21:32
  where
• 21:33
  I found
• 21:33
  my
• 21:33
  resilience
• 21:34
  was in
• 21:35
  my
• 21:35
  family's
• 21:36
  on here
• 21:36
  so
• 21:36
  they can
• 21:36
  laugh
• 21:37
  about
• 21:37
  this,
• 21:37
  too.
• 21:38
  my family
• 21:39
  and my
• 21:39
  sister's
• 21:39
  family
• 21:40
  and a
• 21:40
  couple of
• 21:41
  other
• 21:41
  families
• 21:42
  during
• 21:42
  Covid,
• 21:43
  we, took
• 21:44
  a drive
• 21:44
  up
• 21:44
  in the mountains
• 21:45
  just to
• 21:46
  get away
• 21:46
  from home.
• 21:47
  And
• 21:47
  we were
• 21:47
  doing
• 21:48
  our,
• 21:48
  social
• 21:49
  separation
• 21:49
  or
• 21:50
  whatever.
• 21:50
  So we
• 21:50
  thought
• 21:50
  we'd
• 21:50
  take a
• 21:51
  lovely
• 21:51
  drive
• 21:51
  into
• 21:52
  the mountains.
• 21:52
  We
• 21:52
  ended up
• 21:53
  getting
• 21:54
  stuck
• 21:55
  in the mountains
• 21:55
  and
• 21:56
  we couldn't
• 21:57
  because
• 21:57
  the snow
• 21:57
  had
• 21:57
  kind of
• 21:58
  turned
• 21:58
  into
• 21:58
  the slush.
• 21:59
  We all
• 22:00
  had four
• 22:00
  wheel
• 22:00
  drive.
• 22:01
  We were all prepared,
• 22:01
  but
• 22:01
  we all
• 22:02
  got
• 22:02
  stuck.
• 22:02
  We had to
• 22:03
  stay,
• 22:03
  overnight
• 22:04
  with our
• 22:04
  children
• 22:05
  in our vehicles,
• 22:06
  and
• 22:06
  it was
• 22:07
  a very
• 22:07
  scary
• 22:08
  experience.
• 22:08
  But me
• 22:10
  and my
• 22:10
  little
• 22:10
  sister
• 22:11
  decided
• 22:11
  that
• 22:12
  we were
• 22:12
  going to,
• 22:13
  hike out
• 22:14
  of bounds
• 22:14
  because
• 22:14
  our cell
• 22:15
  phones
• 22:15
  did not
• 22:15
  work.
• 22:16
  So
• 22:16
  we were going
• 22:17
  to hike
• 22:17
  out of
• 22:17
  the
• 22:17
  mountains,
• 22:18
  which, by
• 22:18
  the way,
• 22:18
  was like
• 22:18
  a ten
• 22:19
  mile
• 22:19
  hike,
• 22:20
  and we
• 22:20
  were
• 22:20
  going
• 22:20
  to go
• 22:21
  get help.
• 22:22
  Yes.
• 22:22
  So me
• 22:23
  and my
• 22:23
  elder
• 22:23
  sister,
• 22:24
  the husband
• 22:25
  did not
• 22:25
  go, okay,
• 22:26
  now
• 22:27
  I'm sure
• 22:27
  that my
• 22:27
  brother
• 22:28
  in law
• 22:28
  would say
• 22:29
  That's
• 22:29
  because
• 22:29
  he had a
• 22:30
  busted up
• 22:30
  me or
• 22:30
  something.
• 22:31
  But
• 22:31
  of everybody
• 22:32
  that
• 22:32
  was there
• 22:33
  and one of
• 22:33
  them
• 22:34
  was like
• 22:34
  an Army
• 22:34
  Ranger
• 22:35
  specialist
• 22:35
  or
• 22:35
  whatever,
• 22:36
  it was determined
• 22:37
  that
• 22:37
  me and
• 22:37
  my little
• 22:38
  sister
• 22:38
  were the
• 22:39
  most
• 22:39
  likely
• 22:39
  to get to
• 22:40
  the top
• 22:40
  and and
• 22:41
  get
• 22:41
  someone
• 22:42
  to rescue
• 22:42
  and help
• 22:42
  us.
• 22:42
  So we're
• 22:44
  in this
• 22:44
  mountain,
• 22:45
  we're
• 22:45
  trying to
• 22:45
  get cell
• 22:47
  phone
• 22:47
  interception,
• 22:49
  we start
• 22:49
  our journey.
• 22:50
  I think
• 22:50
  like a
• 22:51
  quarter
• 22:51
  mile into
• 22:52
  our ten
• 22:52
  mile hike
• 22:53
  out
• 22:53
  of the mountains,
• 22:54
  we came
• 22:54
  across
• 22:55
  like had
• 22:55
  torn off
• 22:55
  your leg
• 22:56
  and a
• 22:56
  big pile
• 22:57
  of
• 22:57
  cougar.
• 22:57
  I don't
• 22:58
  know what
• 22:58
  it was.
• 22:58
  And so
• 22:59
  we were like,
• 23:00
  all right,
• 23:00
  let's
• 23:00
  do this.
• 23:01
  This is going
• 23:01
  to be
• 23:01
  fun.
• 23:01
  Don't
• 23:02
  think
• 23:02
  about
• 23:02
  all
• 23:03
  of the
• 23:03
  wild
• 23:03
  animals
• 23:04
  that are out
• 23:04
  right
• 23:04
  now.
• 23:05
  So it was
• 23:06
  interesting
• 23:07
  because
• 23:08
  I think
• 23:08
  that
• 23:08
  both of
• 23:09
  us had
• 23:09
  this.
• 23:09
  You
• 23:10
  just do
• 23:10
  it.
• 23:10
  When
• 23:10
  you
• 23:11
  have to
• 23:11
  do
• 23:11
  something,
• 23:12
  you just do
• 23:13
  it.
• 23:13
  You don't
• 23:13
  think about
• 23:14
  it.
• 23:14
  You
• 23:14
  just know
• 23:15
  that
• 23:15
  you
• 23:15
  have to
• 23:15
  get it
• 23:15
  done.
• 23:16
  And so we
• 23:18
  hiked up
• 23:18
  the
• 23:19
  mountains.
• 23:19
  Okay, now
• 23:19
  I want to
• 23:20
  show you
• 23:20
  a picture.
• 23:21
  And that
• 23:21
  took
• 23:21
  a lot
• 23:21
  of
• 23:21
  courage
• 23:22
  for me
• 23:22
  to show
• 23:22
  you this,
• 23:23
  to get to
• 23:23
  even
• 23:24
  think
• 23:24
  about
• 23:24
  showing
• 23:24
  this
• 23:24
  picture
• 23:25
  because
• 23:26
  it's so
• 23:26
  horrible.
• 23:27
  But
• 23:28
  this is
• 23:28
  this
• 23:29
  is my
• 23:29
  story of
• 23:29
  resilience.
• 23:30
  So
• 23:30
  we got
• 23:30
  to, I
• 23:31
  don't
• 23:31
  know,
• 23:31
  maybe
• 23:32
  mile
• 23:32
  eight
• 23:32
  and a
• 23:32
  half up
• 23:33
  the mountains.
• 23:33
  And my
• 23:34
  little
• 23:34
  sister,
• 23:35
  I'm
• 23:35
  pretty
• 23:35
  sure had
• 23:36
  on
• 23:36
  hypothermia.
• 23:37
  And I was
• 23:38
  starting
• 23:38
  to
• 23:39
  get there
• 23:39
  and
• 23:39
  we were
• 23:39
  both
• 23:41
  freezing
• 23:41
  cold and
• 23:41
  we were
• 23:42
  fairly
• 23:42
  certain
• 23:43
  and
• 23:43
  laughing
• 23:43
  about this,
• 23:44
  but
• 23:44
  it really
• 23:44
  was
• 23:44
  pretty
• 23:45
  scary
• 23:45
  and
• 23:46
  we were
• 23:46
  fairly
• 23:46
  certain
• 23:46
  we were going to die.
• 23:48
  And so
• 23:48
  I asked
• 23:49
  my little
• 23:49
  sister
• 23:50
  to take
• 23:50
  her
• 23:50
  phone
• 23:51
  out, and
• 23:51
  I was like,
• 23:51
  all right,
• 23:51
  you're
• 23:52
  going
• 23:52
  to need
• 23:52
  to
• 23:52
  take my
• 23:52
  last
• 23:53
  picture,
• 23:53
  because
• 23:54
  this is
• 23:54
  going
• 23:54
  to be
• 23:55
  my
• 23:55
  final picture
• 23:55
  before
• 23:56
  I die.
• 23:56
  This is
• 23:56
  how
• 23:56
  people
• 23:57
  are
• 23:57
  going to
• 23:57
  remember
• 23:58
  me.
• 23:58
  And, I'll
• 23:59
  take you.
• 24:00
  Take
• 24:00
  one of me
• 24:01
  and I'll
• 24:01
  take
• 24:01
  one of you.
• 24:02
  And this
• 24:02
  will be
• 24:02
  so people
• 24:03
  have this
• 24:03
  final
• 24:04
  last
• 24:04
  memory
• 24:04
  of us,
• 24:05
  and then
• 24:06
  we got
• 24:06
  into an
• 24:06
  enormous
• 24:07
  fight
• 24:07
  because
• 24:07
  she took
• 24:08
  a picture
• 24:08
  of me,
• 24:08
  and
• 24:08
  it was
• 24:09
  really
• 24:09
  horrible.
• 24:10
  And I was
• 24:10
  like,
• 24:10
  Lena,
• 24:11
  take a
• 24:11
  better
• 24:11
  picture
• 24:11
  of me.
• 24:12
  And she's
• 24:12
  like,
• 24:12
  we're
• 24:12
  going
• 24:13
  to die.
• 24:13
  I'm not
• 24:14
  going
• 24:14
  to take
• 24:14
  another
• 24:14
  picture
• 24:15
  of you.
• 24:15
  So
• 24:15
  we're up
• 24:15
  on
• 24:16
  the top
• 24:16
  of this
• 24:16
  mountain
• 24:17
  arguing
• 24:18
  about
• 24:18
  taking a
• 24:19
  different
• 24:19
  picture,
• 24:20
  because I
• 24:20
  look
• 24:20
  horrible
• 24:21
  in this picture
• 24:22
  and
• 24:22
  it was
• 24:23
  when
• 24:23
  I look
• 24:23
  back
• 24:24
  at it,
• 24:24
  I think about that,
• 24:25
  and
• 24:25
  it was
• 24:25
  kind of
• 24:26
  hilarious
• 24:26
  and
• 24:26
  it was
• 24:26
  kind of
• 24:27
  stupid
• 24:27
  and
• 24:27
  it was
• 24:28
  totally
• 24:29
  me.
• 24:29
  But I'm
• 24:29
  going
• 24:30
  to share
• 24:30
  this
• 24:30
  picture
• 24:31
  because
• 24:31
  this is
• 24:31
  the
• 24:31
  picture
• 24:32
  of
• 24:32
  resilience,
• 24:33
  There's
• 24:33
  the
• 24:33
  picture
• 24:34
  of me
• 24:36
  on top
• 24:37
  of is
• 24:38
  my final
• 24:39
  picture.
• 24:40
  So hey,
• 24:41
  you're
• 24:41
  alive.
• 24:43
  You can see
• 24:44
  why
• 24:44
  it took
• 24:44
  so much
• 24:45
  courage
• 24:45
  for me
• 24:45
  to show
• 24:46
  this.
• 24:46
  So,
• 24:47
  this was
• 24:47
  actually
• 24:48
  right
• 24:48
  after my
• 24:49
  diagnosis,
• 24:50
  and I.
• 24:50
  And
• 24:50
  I think
• 24:51
  I was
• 24:51
  like,
• 24:51
  you know,
• 24:51
  if I can
• 24:51
  get
• 24:52
  through,
• 24:52
  I can,
• 24:52
  so
• 24:52
  I can get
• 24:53
  through
• 24:53
  anything.
• 24:54
  But
• 24:54
  this was
• 24:54
  the
• 24:54
  picture
• 24:55
  that
• 24:55
  she would
• 24:55
  not
• 24:55
  retake
• 24:56
  because
• 24:56
  she had
• 24:56
  terrible
• 24:57
  hypothermia
• 24:58
  and her
• 24:58
  hands
• 24:58
  were
• 24:58
  shaking
• 24:59
  and,
• 25:00
  and
• 25:00
  we were
• 25:01
  literally
• 25:01
  on the
• 25:02
  verge
• 25:02
  of death.
• 25:02
  But
• 25:03
  fighting
• 25:03
  about
• 25:04
  her,
• 25:04
  taking
• 25:04
  another
• 25:05
  picture
• 25:05
  of me.
• 25:05
  So this
• 25:06
  is maybe
• 25:08
  an hour
• 25:08
  later,
• 25:09
  we were rescued
• 25:10
  by some
• 25:10
  snowmobilers.
• 25:11
  And,
• 25:12
  our families
• 25:13
  were rescued,
• 25:14
  so
• 25:14
  that was
• 25:15
  good.
• 25:15
  But,
• 25:17
  my gut
• 25:17
  instinct
• 25:18
  tells me
• 25:18
  not to
• 25:18
  pull up
• 25:19
  slides
• 25:19
  about,
• 25:20
  post-traumatic
• 25:21
  growth
• 25:21
  in
• 25:21
  different
• 25:22
  stages,
• 25:22
  but
• 25:22
  to show
• 25:23
  you
• 25:24
  and all
• 25:25
  my
• 25:25
  humiliation
• 25:26
  and to
• 25:26
  show you
• 25:26
  this
• 25:26
  picture
• 25:27
  of
• 25:27
  resilience
• 25:28
  because,
• 25:29
  the
• 25:29
  two of us
• 25:29
  out of
• 25:30
  I don't know
• 25:30
  how many,
• 25:30
  we
• 25:31
  managed
• 25:31
  to
• 25:31
  hike up
• 25:31
  the mountain
• 25:32
  and get
• 25:32
  help.
• 25:33
  And
• 25:33
  it was awful.
• 25:34
  And my
• 25:35
  sister
• 25:35
  had
• 25:35
  hypothermia
• 25:36
  and I
• 25:37
  looked
• 25:37
  like
• 25:37
  that,
• 25:38
  which was
• 25:38
  terrifying
• 25:39
  and awful
• 25:39
  for me.
• 25:39
  But
• 25:40
  in the end.
• 25:41
  And like
• 25:42
  you said
• 25:42
  nothing
• 25:43
  about
• 25:43
  this,
• 25:43
  like you
• 25:44
  wouldn't
• 25:44
  sit here
• 25:45
  and go,
• 25:45
  oh yeah,
• 25:45
  that
• 25:46
  experience
• 25:47
  was a
• 25:47
  gift,
• 25:48
  right?
• 25:48
  And it's
• 25:49
  not it's
• 25:49
  not
• 25:50
  to say
• 25:50
  that.
• 25:50
  It's not
• 25:51
  to say
• 25:51
  that you
• 25:51
  can't
• 25:52
  build
• 25:52
  that
• 25:52
  mindset,
• 25:53
  right?
• 25:53
  That you
• 25:53
  can't
• 25:54
  somehow
• 25:54
  develop
• 25:55
  or have
• 25:55
  the
• 25:55
  thought
• 25:55
  that
• 25:55
  like,
• 25:56
  oh, yeah,
• 25:56
  like
• 25:56
  the people
• 25:57
  I've met
• 25:57
  or,
• 25:58
  you know,
• 25:58
  the connections
• 25:59
  I've
• 25:59
  made, the
• 25:59
  living
• 26:00
  presently
• 26:00
  that part
• 26:01
  is a
• 26:01
  gift.
• 26:01
  But
• 26:01
  the the
• 26:02
  it
• 26:02
  itself,
• 26:03
  the
• 26:03
  experience
• 26:04
  itself,
• 26:04
  like what
• 26:05
  Ali
• 26:05
  said,
• 26:05
  it's not
• 26:06
  accepting
• 26:06
  what happened
• 26:07
  as
• 26:08
  a gift.
• 26:08
  It's
• 26:09
  accepting
• 26:09
  that
• 26:09
  it happened
• 26:10
  and that
• 26:10
  the gifts
• 26:11
  can come
• 26:11
  to you
• 26:12
  regardless
• 26:12
  of the
• 26:13
  things
• 26:13
  that
• 26:13
  have happened.
• 26:14
  I think
• 26:14
  that's
• 26:14
  maybe
• 26:15
  for me
• 26:15
  where
• 26:15
  the line
• 26:16
  is,
• 26:16
  it's it's
• 26:16
  not toxic
• 26:17
  positivity.
• 26:17
  If I'm
• 26:18
  looking
• 26:18
  for
• 26:18
  the gifts
• 26:19
  despite
• 26:20
  the hard
• 26:20
  things.
• 26:21
  right.
• 26:22
  And
• 26:23
  anyway,
• 26:23
  but I
• 26:24
  digress.
• 26:25
  I think
• 26:25
  to get to
• 26:26
  the
• 26:26
  gifts,
• 26:26
  you have to
• 26:27
  do
• 26:27
  the hard
• 26:28
  stuff
• 26:28
  because,
• 26:29
  like
• 26:30
  after
• 26:30
  that, the
• 26:31
  I was
• 26:31
  like, I'm
• 26:31
  such a
• 26:31
  badass.
• 26:32
  Like my.
• 26:33
  Oh,
• 26:33
  absolutely.
• 26:34
  This is
• 26:35
  this is
• 26:35
  the funny
• 26:36
  part too.
• 26:36
  So my
• 26:36
  little
• 26:36
  sister,
• 26:37
  she's an
• 26:37
  she's
• 26:38
  a full
• 26:38
  on
• 26:38
  Ironman.
• 26:39
  It's like
• 26:39
  the whole
• 26:40
  marathon,
• 26:41
  the swim.
• 26:41
  And she
• 26:42
  is like
• 26:43
  super
• 26:43
  athlete
• 26:43
  and
• 26:44
  on the
• 26:44
  couch
• 26:44
  potato
• 26:45
  who likes
• 26:46
  to drink
• 26:46
  wine and
• 26:47
  watch
• 26:47
  Netflix.
• 26:48
  And
• 26:48
  she got
• 26:49
  hypothermia
• 26:49
  before
• 26:50
  me.
• 26:50
  So I was
• 26:51
  the last
• 26:51
  man
• 26:51
  standing
• 26:52
  my couch
• 26:53
  potato
• 26:53
  lazy
• 26:53
  behind.
• 26:55
  And I'm
• 26:55
  like.
• 26:56
  Hey, look
• 26:56
  at me.
• 26:56
  I did
• 26:56
  nothing
• 26:57
  to
• 26:57
  prepare
• 26:57
  for this
• 26:58
  and I'm
• 26:58
  still fine.
• 26:59
  So
• 27:00
  I think,
• 27:00
  yes,
• 27:00
  coming
• 27:00
  from
• 27:01
  that,
• 27:01
  you
• 27:01
  surprise
• 27:01
  yourself
• 27:02
  about how
• 27:02
  capable
• 27:03
  you are
• 27:03
  because
• 27:04
  you get a
• 27:04
  certain
• 27:04
  mindset
• 27:05
  and
• 27:06
  really
• 27:06
  difficult,
• 27:07
  terrible
• 27:07
  things
• 27:07
  you get through.
• 27:09
  And then
• 27:09
  after
• 27:09
  you do
• 27:10
  it,
• 27:10
  you're
• 27:10
  like, I'm
• 27:10
  kind of
• 27:10
  amazing.
• 27:12
  So yeah,
• 27:12
  there's
• 27:13
  my story
• 27:13
  and my
• 27:13
  sad
• 27:14
  picture
• 27:14
  of
• 27:14
  resilience,
• 27:15
  which
• 27:15
  I brought
• 27:16
  to my own
• 27:18
  diagnosis
• 27:18
  to you
• 27:19
  and
• 27:19
  working
• 27:19
  with that.
• 27:20
  So
• 27:20
  I have a question
• 27:21
  for you.
• 27:22
  in the
• 27:22
  previous
• 27:22
  session
• 27:23
  and in
• 27:23
  really
• 27:24
  both both
• 27:24
  sessions
• 27:25
  leading
• 27:25
  up to
• 27:25
  this and
• 27:25
  just kind
• 27:26
  of a
• 27:26
  recurring
• 27:26
  theme
• 27:27
  in the,
• 27:27
  in the
• 27:27
  community
• 27:28
  of ocular
• 27:28
  melanoma
• 27:29
  patients
• 27:29
  is this
• 27:29
  idea of
• 27:31
  dealing
• 27:31
  with the
• 27:32
  recurring
• 27:32
  fear,
• 27:33
  right?
• 27:33
  Whether
• 27:33
  it's
• 27:33
  recurring
• 27:34
  fear
• 27:34
  because
• 27:35
  the fear
• 27:35
  comes up
• 27:36
  and you
• 27:36
  have
• 27:36
  scans
• 27:37
  every
• 27:37
  three
• 27:37
  months
• 27:37
  or every
• 27:38
  six
• 27:38
  months
• 27:38
  or every
• 27:39
  year,
• 27:39
  or
• 27:40
  the fear
• 27:41
  of the
• 27:41
  doctor's
• 27:41
  appointments
• 27:42
  because
• 27:42
  you have
• 27:42
  some
• 27:43
  level
• 27:43
  of
• 27:43
  residual
• 27:43
  trauma
• 27:44
  around
• 27:44
  the
• 27:44
  actual
• 27:45
  appointment
• 27:45
  itself.
• 27:46
  And then
• 27:46
  I think
• 27:47
  we can
• 27:47
  also say
• 27:48
  that
• 27:48
  there's a
• 27:49
  lot of
• 27:49
  people,
• 27:49
  especially
• 27:50
  when
• 27:50
  you're
• 27:50
  newly
• 27:50
  diagnosed,
• 27:51
  that
• 27:51
  you're
• 27:51
  afraid
• 27:51
  your
• 27:52
  cancer
• 27:52
  might
• 27:52
  come back
• 27:53
  in your eye,
• 27:54
  or
• 27:54
  you know
• 27:54
  that
• 27:55
  you're
• 27:55
  afraid
• 27:55
  it will
• 27:55
  come
• 27:56
  back,
• 27:56
  period.
• 27:56
  Like
• 27:57
  anywhere
• 27:57
  else.
• 27:57
  Metastatic.
• 27:59
  so just
• 28:00
  when you
• 28:01
  when you
• 28:01
  are
• 28:01
  looking
• 28:02
  kind of
• 28:02
  through
• 28:02
  that lens
• 28:03
  of,
• 28:03
  you know,
• 28:04
  post-traumatic
• 28:04
  growth
• 28:05
  while
• 28:05
  also
• 28:05
  simultaneously
• 28:06
  experiencing
• 28:07
  the
• 28:07
  stress
• 28:07
  of fear,
• 28:08
  how
• 28:09
  do you
• 28:09
  navigate that
• 28:10
  and
• 28:10
  how do you help
• 28:11
  your
• 28:11
  clients
• 28:11
  navigate
• 28:11
  that
• 28:12
  from a
• 28:12
  therapy
• 28:12
  perspective?
• 28:15
  I don't
• 28:16
  Honestly
• 28:16
  speaking,
• 28:17
  you, how
• 28:18
  do you
• 28:18
  navigate
• 28:18
  fear?
• 28:19
  You don't
• 28:19
  you deal
• 28:20
  with it
• 28:21
  head on.
• 28:22
  You feel
• 28:22
  all the
• 28:23
  awful
• 28:23
  feelings
• 28:24
  that come
• 28:24
  with it,
• 28:25
  and you
• 28:26
  deal
• 28:26
  with it
• 28:26
  the best
• 28:27
  that
• 28:27
  you can.
• 28:27
  And
• 28:27
  like I,
• 28:28
  it's
• 28:28
  different
• 28:28
  for
• 28:29
  everybody.
• 28:30
  I don't
• 28:30
  know that
• 28:30
  the fear
• 28:31
  or the
• 28:31
  anxiety
• 28:31
  gets any
• 28:32
  easier.
• 28:32
  Like I
• 28:33
  said,
• 28:33
  it's been
• 28:33
  seven
• 28:33
  years
• 28:34
  for me
• 28:34
  and it
• 28:34
  still
• 28:35
  scares,
• 28:36
  you know,
• 28:37
  you
• 28:37
  you live
• 28:38
  every day
• 28:38
  with this
• 28:39
  fear.
• 28:39
  This is not
• 28:40
  a cancer
• 28:41
  that goes
• 28:41
  into
• 28:41
  remission.
• 28:42
  So
• 28:42
  you don't
• 28:42
  get a
• 28:42
  break
• 28:43
  from it.
• 28:43
  You
• 28:43
  don't.
• 28:44
  You
• 28:44
  never
• 28:45
  get a
• 28:45
  break
• 28:45
  from it.
• 28:46
  So
• 28:47
  there's
• 28:47
  not a way
• 28:47
  to get
• 28:48
  rid of
• 28:48
  the
• 28:48
  anxiety.
• 28:49
  I mean,
• 28:49
  you can
• 28:49
  medicate yourself
• 28:50
  and I'm
• 28:50
  definitely
• 28:51
  a fan
• 28:51
  of
• 28:51
  medication
• 28:52
  and therapy,
• 28:53
  but
• 28:54
  what do you
• 28:54
  do?
• 28:54
  You
• 28:54
  face it
• 28:55
  as
• 28:55
  bravely
• 28:56
  as you
• 28:56
  can.
• 28:57
  and
• 28:57
  then you
• 28:57
  move
• 28:58
  forward
• 28:58
  in the
• 28:58
  best way
• 28:59
  you can.
• 28:59
  So I have
• 29:00
  learned
• 29:00
  how to
• 29:01
  manage
• 29:01
  my fear
• 29:02
  over
• 29:02
  the years,
• 29:03
  and
• 29:03
  that is
• 29:04
  through
• 29:04
  the help
• 29:04
  of my family.
• 29:05
  So
• 29:05
  I always
• 29:06
  have a
• 29:06
  big
• 29:06
  entourage
• 29:07
  of people
• 29:07
  who come
• 29:08
  with me
• 29:08
  to
• 29:09
  Portland
• 29:10
  when
• 29:10
  I get my scans
• 29:11
  and
• 29:11
  we go,
• 29:11
  have
• 29:11
  a good
• 29:12
  time,
• 29:12
  we party.
• 29:12
  We
• 29:12
  probably
• 29:13
  drink
• 29:13
  a little
• 29:13
  too much,
• 29:14
  we have a great
• 29:15
  time,
• 29:15
  we make
• 29:16
  a vacation
• 29:16
  of it.
• 29:16
  And
• 29:17
  then I
• 29:17
  sit
• 29:18
  in that
• 29:18
  stupid
• 29:18
  tube
• 29:19
  while
• 29:19
  I do
• 29:19
  all the pictures,
• 29:20
  and I try
• 29:21
  my best
• 29:21
  to fall
• 29:21
  asleep
• 29:22
  and
• 29:22
  enjoy things.
• 29:23
  But
• 29:23
  how do you
• 29:24
  navigate
• 29:24
  fear you?
• 29:25
  You'd be
• 29:26
  brave
• 29:26
  as you can
• 29:27
  and
• 29:27
  you deal
• 29:27
  with it.
• 29:28
  And,
• 29:29
  I
• 29:29
  don't think
• 29:29
  there's
• 29:30
  any trick
• 29:31
  to
• 29:31
  feeling
• 29:32
  better.
• 29:33
  You feel
• 29:33
  better
• 29:33
  after
• 29:34
  you deal
• 29:34
  with
• 29:34
  the fear.
• 29:35
  And we do
• 29:35
  the hard
• 29:35
  things,
• 29:36
  and then
• 29:36
  you
• 29:36
  come out
• 29:37
  on
• 29:37
  the other
• 29:37
  side
• 29:37
  being
• 29:38
  okay
• 29:38
  and
• 29:39
  feeling
• 29:39
  like,
• 29:39
  well.
• 29:39
  And I'm
• 29:40
  trying to
• 29:40
  remember,
• 29:41
  I think
• 29:41
  it was
• 29:41
  it was
• 29:41
  maybe
• 29:42
  both Eve
• 29:42
  and Allie
• 29:43
  both said
• 29:43
  in the
• 29:44
  previous
• 29:44
  sessions
• 29:45
  that some
• 29:46
  of
• 29:46
  the times
• 29:46
  that
• 29:47
  we feel
• 29:47
  the worst
• 29:47
  is when
• 29:48
  we resist
• 29:49
  the
• 29:49
  feeling
• 29:49
  that is
• 29:49
  coming
• 29:50
  up,
• 29:50
  like when
• 29:51
  we resist
• 29:52
  the
• 29:52
  feeling
• 29:52
  of okay,
• 29:52
  just
• 29:53
  accepting
• 29:53
  and and
• 29:54
  accepting.
• 29:55
  But by
• 29:55
  accepting,
• 29:56
  I mean
• 29:56
  just just
• 29:56
  honoring
• 29:57
  and
• 29:57
  validating
• 29:58
  the fact
• 29:58
  that
• 29:58
  you do
• 29:59
  feel
• 29:59
  afraid,
• 29:59
  that it's
• 30:00
  human
• 30:00
  and
• 30:00
  normal
• 30:01
  to feel
• 30:01
  afraid
• 30:01
  like
• 30:02
  there is
• 30:03
  no one
• 30:03
  in that,
• 30:04
  no sane
• 30:04
  person
• 30:05
  in the world
• 30:05
  who would
• 30:06
  not go
• 30:06
  into
• 30:07
  any set
• 30:07
  of our scans
• 30:08
  knowing
• 30:08
  what
• 30:08
  we know
• 30:09
  about our
• 30:09
  diagnosis
• 30:10
  and
• 30:10
  would not
• 30:10
  feel
• 30:10
  afraid.
• 30:11
  So just
• 30:12
  to honor
• 30:13
  the fact
• 30:13
  that
• 30:13
  that's a
• 30:14
  that's
• 30:14
  such a
• 30:14
  human thing.
• 30:15
  And
• 30:16
  then I
• 30:16
  also love
• 30:16
  what ali
• 30:17
  just said
• 30:17
  in
• 30:17
  the comment.
• 30:18
  She said
• 30:18
  there's
• 30:18
  no way
• 30:19
  to
• 30:19
  eliminate
• 30:19
  the fear.
• 30:20
  It's
• 30:20
  always
• 30:20
  there,
• 30:21
  sometimes
• 30:22
  maybe
• 30:22
  more in
• 30:22
  the
• 30:22
  background
• 30:23
  and
• 30:23
  sometimes
• 30:24
  more at
• 30:24
  the
• 30:24
  center.
• 30:26
  Sometimes,
• 30:26
  you know,
• 30:26
  clear up
• 30:27
  in the front.
• 30:27
  And
• 30:27
  that's
• 30:27
  the only thing
• 30:28
  you can see.
• 30:29
  But it's
• 30:29
  always
• 30:29
  there,
• 30:29
  like you
• 30:30
  said.
• 30:31
  Yeah,
• 30:32
  it's
• 30:32
  there.
• 30:32
  and you
• 30:33
  deal with it
• 30:33
  and
• 30:33
  you're
• 30:33
  still
• 30:34
  alive,
• 30:34
  then
• 30:34
  you can
• 30:34
  go, look
• 30:35
  at what
• 30:35
  I've done
• 30:35
  in my life.
• 30:36
  Oh my
• 30:37
  gosh.
• 30:37
  And Eve
• 30:37
  is my
• 30:38
  hero.
• 30:39
  I have like
• 30:39
  watched
• 30:40
  her
• 30:40
  documentary
• 30:41
  and the
• 30:42
  climbing
• 30:42
  like that
• 30:43
  is, that
• 30:43
  is living
• 30:44
  like
• 30:45
  you do
• 30:45
  things
• 30:45
  that
• 30:45
  you're
• 30:46
  scared
• 30:46
  of.
• 30:46
  You
• 30:46
  get outside
• 30:47
  of your
• 30:47
  comfort
• 30:47
  zone.
• 30:48
  And
• 30:48
  this is
• 30:48
  what I
• 30:48
  ask of
• 30:48
  my
• 30:49
  clients.
• 30:49
  Get out
• 30:50
  of your
• 30:50
  comfort
• 30:50
  zone and
• 30:52
  look at
• 30:52
  people
• 30:53
  as
• 30:53
  examples.
• 30:54
  There are
• 30:54
  so many
• 30:54
  people in
• 30:55
  in our
• 30:56
  community,
• 30:56
  you
• 30:57
  including
• 30:58
  in
• 30:58
  absolutely
• 30:59
  including
• 30:59
  you
• 30:59
  who are
• 30:59
  like
• 31:00
  you are
• 31:00
  my
• 31:00
  examples
• 31:01
  of people
• 31:02
  who are
• 31:02
  resilient
• 31:03
  and
• 31:03
  amazing
• 31:04
  and keep
• 31:04
  going.
• 31:04
  And,
• 31:05
  I think
• 31:06
  having
• 31:06
  people
• 31:07
  who
• 31:07
  you can
• 31:08
  look up to
• 31:09
  and
• 31:09
  who can be
• 31:10
  examples
• 31:10
  to you
• 31:11
  and you
• 31:12
  know,
• 31:12
  you have
• 31:13
  and
• 31:13
  it has,
• 31:14
  and
• 31:14
  there are
• 31:14
  a number
• 31:15
  of other
• 31:15
  people
• 31:16
  who are
• 31:16
  alive
• 31:16
  and some
• 31:17
  who are
• 31:17
  no longer
• 31:17
  with us,
• 31:18
  who have
• 31:18
  been my
• 31:19
  examples
• 31:20
  of how
• 31:21
  to get
• 31:21
  through
• 31:21
  this
• 31:22
  with
• 31:22
  that.
• 31:23
  So
• 31:24
  always
• 31:24
  help
• 31:24
  people.
• 31:25
  People
• 31:25
  have
• 31:25
  people
• 31:26
  that's.
• 31:26
  Such a
• 31:27
  powerful
• 31:27
  thing.
• 31:29
  Yes, have
• 31:30
  lots of
• 31:30
  people,
• 31:32
  I think
• 31:32
  you're
• 31:32
  amazing.
• 31:33
  Yes there
• 31:34
  is.
• 31:35
  eve had a
• 31:35
  couple
• 31:35
  comments.
• 31:36
  I don't know
• 31:36
  if you
• 31:36
  want
• 31:37
  to read
• 31:37
  through,
• 31:37
  from
• 31:37
  Alex,
• 31:38
  comment
• 31:38
  down.
• 31:40
  Ali says,
• 31:41
  when
• 31:41
  we cry,
• 31:42
  cortisol
• 31:43
  is
• 31:43
  released,
• 31:43
  which is
• 31:44
  why
• 31:44
  we feel
• 31:44
  somewhat
• 31:45
  better
• 31:45
  when
• 31:45
  we cry.
• 31:45
  Feeling
• 31:46
  the feels
• 31:47
  actually
• 31:47
  helps.
• 31:48
  Like on
• 31:48
  a biological
• 31:49
  level,
• 31:49
  it helps.
• 31:50
  That's
• 31:50
  awesome.
• 31:50
  I love
• 31:51
  western
• 31:51
  medicine
• 31:51
  and
• 31:51
  western
• 31:52
  medicine.
• 31:52
  Did my
• 31:53
  radiation.
• 31:53
  I have an eyeball
• 31:54
  today
• 31:54
  and no
• 31:55
  cancer
• 31:55
  because
• 31:55
  of it.
• 31:56
  But too
• 31:57
  often
• 31:58
  we're
• 31:58
  looking
• 31:58
  at here's
• 31:59
  the symptoms.
• 31:59
  Let's get
• 32:00
  rid
• 32:00
  of them
• 32:00
  too
• 32:00
  quickly.
• 32:01
  And we do
• 32:01
  the same
• 32:01
  thing
• 32:01
  in my field.
• 32:03
  So it's
• 32:03
  not about
• 32:04
  getting
• 32:04
  rid
• 32:05
  of the fear
• 32:06
  and
• 32:06
  getting
• 32:06
  rid of
• 32:07
  the pain.
• 32:07
  It's
• 32:07
  about
• 32:08
  just
• 32:09
  getting
• 32:09
  into it
• 32:10
  and
• 32:10
  getting
• 32:10
  into
• 32:11
  all the mud
• 32:12
  and
• 32:12
  being
• 32:12
  your most
• 32:13
  authentic
• 32:13
  self,
• 32:14
  and then
• 32:15
  getting out
• 32:15
  of it
• 32:15
  at some
• 32:16
  point
• 32:16
  and going,
• 32:17
  I survived
• 32:17
  this and
• 32:18
  I did it
• 32:18
  with not
• 32:19
  by
• 32:19
  myself.
• 32:19
  I did it
• 32:20
  with
• 32:20
  the help
• 32:20
  of my
• 32:21
  amazing
• 32:21
  family
• 32:22
  and
• 32:22
  the people
• 32:23
  I look
• 32:23
  up to.
• 32:24
  And yeah,
• 32:26
  I'm a big
• 32:27
  proponent
• 32:27
  of have
• 32:28
  a lot of
• 32:28
  people
• 32:29
  around
• 32:29
  and
• 32:30
  people
• 32:30
  who will
• 32:31
  help you
• 32:31
  thrive.
• 32:33
  I think
• 32:34
  this has
• 32:34
  been
• 32:34
  fantastic.
• 32:35
  And
• 32:35
  Katie,
• 32:36
  I love
• 32:37
  that
• 32:37
  you want
• 32:37
  with
• 32:37
  your gut
• 32:38
  and just
• 32:38
  kind of
• 32:38
  told
• 32:39
  stories.
• 32:39
  I felt
• 32:39
  like
• 32:39
  the stories
• 32:40
  that
• 32:40
  you told
• 32:40
  were so
• 32:41
  applicable.
• 32:41
  as we're
• 32:42
  wrapping
• 32:42
  up in
• 32:43
  the next
• 32:43
  five
• 32:43
  minutes,
• 32:44
  if
• 32:44
  you guys
• 32:44
  are
• 32:44
  in the chat,
• 32:45
  if you're
• 32:45
  listening
• 32:45
  live and
• 32:46
  you have
• 32:46
  some
• 32:46
  questions
• 32:47
  for
• 32:47
  Katie,
• 32:47
  have
• 32:47
  any comments
• 32:48
  you want
• 32:48
  to add to
• 32:48
  the
• 32:49
  discussion,
• 32:49
  please
• 32:49
  feel free
• 32:50
  to to
• 32:50
  add those
• 32:50
  to
• 32:50
  the chat
• 32:51
  or send
• 32:51
  those
• 32:51
  over
• 32:52
  in Q&A.
• 32:52
  And
• 32:53
  with that,
• 32:54
  Katie,
• 32:54
  is there
• 32:54
  anything else
• 32:55
  you want
• 32:55
  to say?
• 32:55
  Kind of
• 32:56
  just to
• 32:56
  kind of
• 32:56
  wrap up
• 32:57
  in the
• 32:57
  next five
• 32:57
  minutes?
• 33:00
  I don't
• 33:00
  think so.
• 33:01
  I just want
• 33:02
  to
• 33:02
  I super
• 33:03
  happy
• 33:04
  to be
• 33:04
  part of
• 33:04
  this,
• 33:05
  as
• 33:05
  always.
• 33:05
  And I
• 33:06
  love my
• 33:07
  om
• 33:07
  community.
• 33:08
  They're a
• 33:08
  second
• 33:09
  family
• 33:09
  to me,
• 33:09
  and I
• 33:10
  appreciate
• 33:11
  that
• 33:11
  you do
• 33:12
  these
• 33:12
  seminars
• 33:13
  that I'm
• 33:13
  they are
• 33:14
  very
• 33:14
  helpful
• 33:15
  for a
• 33:16
  lot of
• 33:16
  people,
• 33:17
  and it's
• 33:17
  very
• 33:17
  therapeutic
• 33:18
  for me
• 33:18
  to talk
• 33:19
  about my
• 33:19
  experience,
• 33:20
  too.
• 33:20
  So
• 33:20
  it's therapeutic,
• 33:21
  I believe,
• 33:21
  for this,
• 33:21
  for me as
• 33:22
  a
• 33:22
  speaker.
• 33:23
  Yeah.
• 33:24
  Well,
• 33:24
  Katie,
• 33:24
  you're an
• 33:24
  excellent
• 33:25
  speaker
• 33:25
  and, you
• 33:26
  just have
• 33:26
  so many
• 33:27
  great
• 33:27
  insights.
• 33:27
  And
• 33:27
  I know
• 33:27
  that
• 33:28
  everybody
• 33:28
  who's
• 33:28
  listening
• 33:28
  feels
• 33:29
  the same.
• 33:29
  so we're
• 33:30
  so
• 33:30
  thankful
• 33:30
  to have
• 33:30
  you as
• 33:31
  a great
• 33:31
  example.
• 33:32
  in all of
• 33:33
  the ways
• 33:33
  that you
• 33:33
  have
• 33:34
  shared,
• 33:34
  just
• 33:34
  navigating
• 33:35
  this
• 33:35
  messy
• 33:37
  that's
• 33:37
  I think
• 33:37
  that's
• 33:37
  such
• 33:38
  a good way
• 33:38
  to put it
• 33:38
  is that
• 33:39
  it's just
• 33:39
  a messy
• 33:40
  diagnosis.
• 33:41
  There's
• 33:41
  nothing
• 33:42
  pretty
• 33:42
  and clean
• 33:43
  about it.
• 33:43
  And, and
• 33:44
  I think
• 33:44
  to just
• 33:45
  add to
• 33:45
  what
• 33:45
  you said
• 33:46
  at the
• 33:46
  beginning,
• 33:46
  you said,
• 33:47
  I
• 33:47
  don't know
• 33:47
  how you
• 33:48
  guys look
• 33:48
  so,
• 33:48
  so
• 33:49
  pretty.
• 33:49
  It's
• 33:49
  like,
• 33:49
  well,
• 33:50
  I don't
• 33:51
  I don't
• 33:52
  you just
• 33:52
  happened
• 33:53
  to see me
• 33:53
  on
• 33:53
  the times
• 33:54
  that
• 33:54
  maybe
• 33:54
  I did
• 33:55
  my hair
• 33:55
  and my
• 33:55
  makeup
• 33:55
  the 80%
• 33:56
  of the
• 33:56
  time
• 33:57
  in the week.
• 33:57
  I don't
• 33:58
  because
• 33:58
  that's
• 33:59
  too much
• 33:59
  effort.
• 33:59
  And, but
• 34:00
  I love
• 34:01
  that you
• 34:01
  keep it
• 34:01
  real.
• 34:01
  So,
• 34:02
  thank you
• 34:02
  so much,
• 34:02
  Katie.
• 34:03
  Thank you
• 34:03
  for being
• 34:03
  here.
• 34:03
  Let's
• 34:04
  give her
• 34:04
  a huge
• 34:05
  thanks in
• 34:05
  the chat.
• 34:06
  Oh,
• 34:06
  we have a good question.
• 34:08
  And
• 34:09
  you know
• 34:09
  what,
• 34:09
  Tricia?
• 34:09
  If you want
• 34:10
  to hop
• 34:10
  into our
• 34:11
  next
• 34:11
  session,
• 34:12
  we're
• 34:12
  going to
• 34:12
  cover
• 34:12
  this
• 34:13
  a little
• 34:13
  more
• 34:13
  depth.
• 34:13
  In depth
• 34:14
  with
• 34:14
  family
• 34:14
  members.
• 34:15
  But
• 34:15
  today's
• 34:16
  question
• 34:16
  is how
• 34:17
  can
• 34:17
  family
• 34:17
  members,
• 34:18
  in my
• 34:18
  case,
• 34:19
  like
• 34:19
  the mother
• 34:19
  of a
• 34:20
  daughter
• 34:20
  with Om
• 34:21
  like
• 34:21
  Ellie?
• 34:22
  how
• 34:22
  can we
• 34:22
  live
• 34:22
  with this
• 34:23
  ongoing
• 34:23
  fear
• 34:24
  and
• 34:24
  I know
• 34:24
  I think
• 34:25
  my mom
• 34:25
  could
• 34:25
  could
• 34:26
  definitely
• 34:26
  relate
• 34:27
  to that,
• 34:27
  for sure.
• 34:27
  But,
• 34:28
  Katie,
• 34:28
  what would you
• 34:29
  what
• 34:29
  would you
• 34:29
  suggest
• 34:30
  there?
• 34:31
  my family
• 34:32
  very
• 34:33
  regularly
• 34:33
  reminds me
• 34:34
  that
• 34:34
  I'm not
• 34:35
  the only
• 34:35
  one
• 34:35
  dealing
• 34:35
  with
• 34:35
  this,
• 34:36
  that it's
• 34:36
  difficult
• 34:37
  for them.
• 34:37
  It's
• 34:38
  messy
• 34:38
  for them.
• 34:39
  Relationships
• 34:40
  change.
• 34:40
  Have
• 34:41
  grace
• 34:41
  and
• 34:41
  empathy
• 34:42
  with
• 34:42
  your family
• 34:43
  as well,
• 34:43
  because
• 34:44
  they love you
• 34:45
  and
• 34:46
  they have
• 34:47
  a lot
• 34:47
  of fear
• 34:48
  and
• 34:48
  feelings,
• 34:49
  and
• 34:49
  they're
• 34:49
  going
• 34:50
  through
• 34:50
  a lot
• 34:51
  of what
• 34:51
  you're
• 34:51
  going
• 34:51
  through.
• 34:52
  So have
• 34:52
  grace
• 34:52
  with them
• 34:53
  and
• 34:53
  recognize
• 34:54
  that your
• 34:54
  relationship
• 34:55
  is going
• 34:55
  to
• 34:55
  change.
• 34:56
  Things
• 34:56
  are
• 34:56
  going to
• 34:56
  be
• 34:56
  different.
• 34:57
  and just
• 34:58
  expect
• 34:59
  that
• 35:00
  things
• 35:00
  are not
• 35:01
  going
• 35:02
  to be
• 35:03
  stable
• 35:03
  in the
• 35:04
  same
• 35:04
  and be
• 35:04
  okay
• 35:04
  with that.
• 35:06
  But I
• 35:06
  think,
• 35:06
  just
• 35:07
  having
• 35:07
  Grace
• 35:07
  around
• 35:07
  your family
• 35:08
  and
• 35:08
  the fact
• 35:08
  that
• 35:09
  they're
• 35:09
  going
• 35:09
  through
• 35:09
  a lot
• 35:10
  themselves
• 35:11
  and their
• 35:12
  journey
• 35:12
  might
• 35:12
  be kind
• 35:13
  of messy
• 35:13
  and icky
• 35:14
  and
• 35:15
  beautiful
• 35:15
  at times.
• 35:16
  And yeah,
• 35:17
  just
• 35:17
  having
• 35:17
  patients
• 35:18
  comes in.
• 35:19
  On and
• 35:20
  Tricia,
• 35:21
  just
• 35:21
  from from
• 35:22
  my mom's
• 35:22
  perspective,
• 35:23
  at least
• 35:23
  the times
• 35:23
  that she
• 35:24
  shared
• 35:24
  with me,
• 35:25
  you know,
• 35:25
  there's
• 35:26
  I think
• 35:26
  there's a
• 35:26
  huge
• 35:27
  desire
• 35:27
  as a mom.
• 35:28
  Right.
• 35:29
  And, and
• 35:30
  maybe not
• 35:30
  everyone
• 35:31
  is a mom,
• 35:31
  but
• 35:31
  I think
• 35:31
  that,
• 35:32
  those of
• 35:32
  us who
• 35:32
  are that
• 35:33
  there's
• 35:34
  there's
• 35:34
  a huge
• 35:35
  part
• 35:35
  of us
• 35:35
  that just
• 35:36
  would
• 35:36
  love
• 35:36
  as
• 35:37
  mothers,
• 35:37
  as
• 35:37
  parents,
• 35:38
  even
• 35:38
  we would
• 35:39
  love to
• 35:39
  just
• 35:39
  make sure
• 35:39
  that our
• 35:40
  kids
• 35:40
  don't
• 35:40
  have to
• 35:41
  suffer.
• 35:41
  Right.
• 35:42
  We have
• 35:42
  that
• 35:42
  desire
• 35:43
  as parents.
• 35:43
  We almost
• 35:44
  we almost
• 35:44
  have to
• 35:44
  catch
• 35:45
  ourselves
• 35:45
  when we
• 35:46
  when we
• 35:46
  remove
• 35:47
  those
• 35:47
  experiences
• 35:48
  that
• 35:48
  they have
• 35:49
  to
• 35:49
  really
• 35:49
  feel
• 35:50
  through
• 35:50
  something
• 35:50
  that it's
• 35:51
  necessary
• 35:52
  for
• 35:52
  growth.
• 35:53
  and
• 35:53
  I know
• 35:53
  my,
• 35:53
  my mom
• 35:54
  has told me
• 35:54
  multiple
• 35:55
  times
• 35:56
  that she
• 35:56
  just
• 35:56
  wishes
• 35:56
  that she
• 35:57
  could
• 35:58
  take it,
• 35:58
  right,
• 35:59
  that she
• 35:59
  could
• 35:59
  have it
• 36:00
  in a
• 36:00
  place.
• 36:03
  And I
• 36:04
  would
• 36:04
  never
• 36:04
  wish this
• 36:04
  on
• 36:04
  anyone,
• 36:05
  let alone
• 36:05
  my mom.
• 36:06
  I
• 36:07
  would never
• 36:07
  wish it
• 36:07
  on
• 36:07
  anyone.
• 36:09
  But just
• 36:09
  that
• 36:09
  mentality
• 36:10
  of just
• 36:10
  knowing.
• 36:11
  Knowing
• 36:11
  that she
• 36:11
  wishes
• 36:12
  she could
• 36:12
  bear
• 36:12
  the burden.
• 36:13
  and I
• 36:13
  think,
• 36:14
  you know,
• 36:14
  from
• 36:14
  from her
• 36:15
  to me,
• 36:16
  the
• 36:16
  things
• 36:16
  that
• 36:16
  have been
• 36:16
  the most
• 36:17
  supportive
• 36:17
  for me
• 36:18
  and
• 36:18
  that have
• 36:18
  maybe
• 36:18
  helped us
• 36:19
  carry
• 36:19
  the fear
• 36:19
  together
• 36:20
  have
• 36:20
  just been
• 36:21
  really
• 36:21
  keeping
• 36:22
  the
• 36:22
  communication
• 36:22
  open.
• 36:24
  I think
• 36:24
  that's
• 36:24
  helped a lot.
• 36:25
  But
• 36:26
  I also
• 36:26
  think
• 36:26
  that we
• 36:28
  kind of
• 36:28
  have to
• 36:28
  remind
• 36:28
  each
• 36:28
  other
• 36:29
  of
• 36:29
  some of
• 36:29
  the
• 36:29
  things
• 36:29
  that,
• 36:30
  you know,
• 36:30
  she's
• 36:30
  giving
• 36:30
  me advice
• 36:31
  about
• 36:31
  completely
• 36:32
  different
• 36:32
  circumstances
• 36:33
  that
• 36:33
  I have
• 36:34
  then
• 36:34
  given
• 36:34
  back
• 36:34
  to her
• 36:35
  and just
• 36:35
  been
• 36:35
  like,
• 36:35
  mom,
• 36:35
  remember
• 36:36
  when you told
• 36:36
  me, you
• 36:36
  know,
• 36:37
  feel it
• 36:38
  once,
• 36:38
  don't
• 36:38
  feel it
• 36:38
  twice?
• 36:39
  Like,
• 36:39
  if
• 36:39
  you're,
• 36:40
  you know,
• 36:40
  feeling
• 36:40
  worried
• 36:41
  about the
• 36:41
  what if
• 36:41
  that
• 36:41
  sometimes
• 36:42
  those
• 36:42
  worries,
• 36:43
  those
• 36:43
  fears
• 36:43
  come up
• 36:44
  about
• 36:44
  things
• 36:44
  that
• 36:44
  haven't
• 36:44
  happened
• 36:45
  yet.
• 36:45
  And
• 36:45
  I think
• 36:46
  that
• 36:46
  goes back
• 36:46
  to what
• 36:46
  Allie
• 36:47
  talked
• 36:47
  about,
• 36:47
  about
• 36:47
  grounding
• 36:48
  yourself
• 36:48
  in
• 36:48
  the facts
• 36:49
  and
• 36:49
  what's
• 36:49
  actually
• 36:50
  happening
• 36:50
  in
• 36:50
  front of you.
• 36:51
  but
• 36:52
  but I
• 36:53
  think
• 36:53
  that
• 36:53
  sometimes
• 36:54
  we worry
• 36:54
  so much
• 36:55
  that we
• 36:55
  almost
• 36:55
  feel
• 36:56
  the dread
• 36:57
  two times
• 36:58
  instead
• 36:58
  of just
• 36:58
  feeling
• 36:59
  whatever
• 36:59
  the aftermath
• 37:00
  is of
• 37:00
  whatever
• 37:01
  the scans
• 37:01
  say,
• 37:01
  whatever
• 37:02
  the doctor's
• 37:02
  appointment
• 37:02
  says,
• 37:03
  we feel
• 37:03
  it twice,
• 37:04
  because
• 37:04
  we have
• 37:04
  now
• 37:05
  kind of
• 37:05
  choked
• 37:05
  ourselves
• 37:06
  with
• 37:06
  the fear
• 37:06
  for
• 37:07
  so long.
• 37:08
  so just
• 37:08
  trying to
• 37:08
  remember
• 37:09
  that
• 37:09
  you really
• 37:10
  don't
• 37:10
  have to
• 37:10
  suffer
• 37:10
  more
• 37:11
  than once
• 37:11
  and
• 37:12
  that if,
• 37:12
  you know,
• 37:13
  come
• 37:13
  what may,
• 37:13
  whatever
• 37:13
  is going
• 37:14
  to happen
• 37:14
  is going
• 37:14
  to happen.
• 37:15
  You can't
• 37:15
  stop it.
• 37:16
  Whatever
• 37:16
  the
• 37:16
  results
• 37:17
  of X
• 37:17
  appointment
• 37:18
  or
• 37:18
  X outcome,
• 37:19
  they're going
• 37:19
  to happen.
• 37:20
  You can't stop
• 37:21
  it.
• 37:21
  What you can
• 37:21
  do is
• 37:23
  feel it
• 37:23
  when it
• 37:23
  actually
• 37:24
  is real,
• 37:24
  instead
• 37:24
  of
• 37:25
  feeling
• 37:25
  it
• 37:25
  when it's
• 37:26
  not real.
• 37:27
  I hope
• 37:27
  that
• 37:27
  makes
• 37:28
  some
• 37:28
  level of
• 37:28
  sense.
• 37:33
  Let's see
• 37:33
  what
• 37:33
  did eve
• 37:34
  just say.
• 37:35
  Oh I like
• 37:36
  yeah.
• 37:36
  You've
• 37:36
  just
• 37:36
  you've
• 37:37
  just
• 37:37
  confirmed
• 37:37
  or,
• 37:37
  you know,
• 37:38
  added
• 37:38
  to that.
• 37:38
  But
• 37:38
  as parents
• 37:39
  our job
• 37:39
  is not
• 37:40
  to
• 37:40
  prevent
• 37:40
  all bad
• 37:40
  things,
• 37:41
  but to
• 37:41
  teach
• 37:41
  our kids
• 37:42
  how
• 37:42
  to cope
• 37:42
  with
• 37:42
  the bad
• 37:42
  things.
• 37:43
  so
• 37:44
  I guess
• 37:45
  with
• 37:45
  that,
• 37:45
  we're
• 37:45
  going
• 37:45
  to segue
• 37:46
  over to
• 37:46
  our next session,
• 37:47
  which is
• 37:47
  actually
• 37:47
  coping
• 37:48
  with
• 37:48
  ocular
• 37:48
  melanoma
• 37:49
  as an
• 37:49
  entire
• 37:49
  family.
• 37:51
  Katie,
• 37:51
  thank you
• 37:51
  again.
• 37:52
  Thank you
• 37:52
  for your
• 37:52
  insights,
• 37:53
  your
• 37:53
  stories,
• 37:54
  your courage.
• 37:54
  and just
• 37:55
  your
• 37:56
  I think
• 37:56
  authentic
• 37:57
  resilience
• 37:57
  is maybe
• 37:58
  a good
• 37:58
  word
• 37:58
  for it.
• 37:59
  Thank
• 37:59
  you.