Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Expanding Cancer Care Access, AI and the Future of Oncology with Dr. Robert Figlin

Transcript

Expanding Cancer Care Access, AI and the Future of Oncology with Dr. Robert Figlin · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - There's a small circle of people who truly
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  - understand what it takes to lead a health
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  - system right now. The decisions are enormous.
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  - The variables are constantly shifting, and the stakes
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  - of getting a call wrong don't stay contained.
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  - That's not a complaint. It's a structural reality.
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  - And it's why the most effective c suite
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  - leaders are deliberate about where they go to
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  - pressure test their thinking.
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  - Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
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  - brings together more than 1,500
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  - executive level attendees
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  - and nearly 400 speakers for four days built
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  - around growth, financial sustainability,
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  - workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
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  - have easy answers.
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  - Join us November second through the fifth in
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  - Chicago.
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  - For the agenda and event details,
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  - visit beckershospitalreview.com
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  - and click on the events tab in the
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  - upper right.
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  - Hello. Thank you so much for tuning into
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  - the Becker's Oncology
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  - Leadership podcast. I'm Elizabeth Regerson,
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  - a reporter here at Becker's. And today, I'm
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  - talking to doctor Robert Figlin from Cedars Sinai.
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  - Doctor Figlin is the Steven Spielberg family chair
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  - in hematology
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  - oncology,
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  - deputy director for Cedars Sinai Cancer,
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  - and deputy director of the Samuel Austin Comprehensive
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  - Cancer Institute.
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  - Doctor Figlin, thank you so much for taking
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  - the time to speak with me today.
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  - Well, thank you for having me. Happy to
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  - join. Perfect. And before I dive into all
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  - my questions for you, I'd love if you
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  - could just take a little bit of time
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  - to share
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  - some about your background and your role or,
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  - I should say, roles at Cedars Sinai for
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  - our listeners.
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  - So I'm a medical oncologist.
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  - I've been practicing,
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  - for many decades.
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  - My areas of expertise have been in thoracic
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  - oncology and general urinary oncology
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  - where I have participated in and led some
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  - of the major trials that led to approvals
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  - by the FDA in those diseases.
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  - And I'm serving now as the interim director
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  - of the Cedars Sinai Cancer Center while we're
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  - searching for a new director.
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  - Perfect.
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  - Well, I guess let's start with Cedars Sinai
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  - then,
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  - to kick off our conversation.
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  - What would you say is your biggest priority
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  - right now for the cancer center or Cedars
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  - Sinai today?
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  - I think that the major issue for us
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  - is access.
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  - Mhmm. Why do I say that?
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  - We have many more people that want to
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  - see us,
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  - that we have to navigate through a complex
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  - academic health system,
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  - and we're working aggressively
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  - on making sure that we're,
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  - identifying
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  - the right person at the right time in
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  - the right organizational structure within Cedars so that
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  - they can get their best care. If they're
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  - trying to come and see us for,
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  - transplantation
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  - or CAR T therapy
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  - or if they're coming to us for clinical
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  - trials or coming to us with a new
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  - diagnosis.
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  - The key for patients
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  - is really,
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  - how do I get to see the right
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  - doctor at the right time,
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  - and how can I do that quickly?
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  - Because, obviously, it's
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  - learning about the possibility that one has cancer
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  - is disconcerting.
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  - And I think one of the things that
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  - we're trying to deliver on is, positioning ourselves
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  - to meet the patient where they need
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  - as opposed to expecting the patient to navigate
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  - a complex structure that might prevent them from,
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  - receiving the care that they deserve.
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  - Perfect. And I I feel like you could
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  - really build off of your answer with my
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  - next question here, but feel free to take
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  - it in another direction if it makes sense.
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  - Do you feel like there are any pressures
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  - that cancer centers right now are facing
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  - that maybe
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  - aren't getting talked about enough?
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  - So, I we look at this through the
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  - lens of, at least in part, through the
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  - lens of the patient. What do I mean
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  - by that?
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  - Patients with a new diagnosis or at risk
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  - for cancer,
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  - would very much like to receive their care
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  - locally if possible
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  - and know that the backbone of an organizational
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  - structure like Cedars Sinai Health System is available
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  - to them should they need it. So one
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  - of the things that we've done over the
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  - last decade, a little bit more than a
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  - decade,
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  - is we have purchased hospitals.
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  - We have purchased practices.
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  - We have integrated them into our EMR.
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  - And and what we try and do is
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  - position the patients so that they can receive
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  - their care locally,
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  - to enable them to get in as quickly
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  - as possible.
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  - So from a patient perspective, access is critical.
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  - From a cancer center perspective,
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  - what we wanna do is we wanna look
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  - at every patient and say the following.
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  - We believe that the best care that a
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  - person can receive
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  - is clinical research and participating in clinical trials.
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  - So we wanna have a portfolio of clinical
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  - trials available for patients so that they can
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  - receive tomorrow's therapy today.
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  - As I've said to many people over the
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  - years, almost all the treatments that we offer
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  - patients with cancer have come through the clinical
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  - trial mechanism.
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  - We're embedded in a very large organizational structure
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  - to do that. We place a large number
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  - of patients on clinical trials, interventional
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  - clinical trials regularly,
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  - and it's critical for us to be able
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  - to offer that not just to the patient,
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  - but to the understanding that the care that
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  - we're about to deliver to them is current
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  - and forward looking. And I think that's what
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  - patients wanna know about when they're seeking cancer
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  - care, whether it's through surgery,
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  - radiation oncology,
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  - hematology
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  - oncology, or other specialties.
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  - I love the way you've kind of framed
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  - that because when you think about access, it's
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  - not just, you know, getting access and and
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  - having it close to your house. It's also
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  - getting access to those top of the line
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  - treatments that clinical trials can bring. Yeah. I
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  - think and I think that that that we
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  - as a as a a organizational structure,
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  - at Cedars Sinai,
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  - you know, really recognize that when a cancer
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  - patient meets that diagnosis,
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  - we need to meet them where they are.
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  - It's education. It's patient and family support. It's
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  - integration in clinical research. It's talking about some
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  - of the basic science of,
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  - discoveries that we've made over the years. So
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  - it's critical that people have the confidence that
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  - when they come to Cedars Sinai, they're getting
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  - the best possible care for their disease at
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  - the right time.
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  - I'd like to take a bit of a
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  - left turn now, but I feel like it
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  - wouldn't be a Becker's podcast without me asking
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  - you about AI.
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  - So I have to bring up AI. I'd
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  - love to know
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  - how you are feeling about the technology right
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  - now, you know, whether that's navigating
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  - safety concerns,
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  - you know,
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  - integrating
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  - it into
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  - care pathways.
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  - Do you think it's genuinely,
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  - you know, changing things, or is it the
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  - hype outrunning the reality? Just kind of what's
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  - your sense of AI right now?
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  - Yeah. So I think I I well, first
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  - of all, I think that as an organization,
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  - we view EI holistically
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  - through all aspects of the organization, not just
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  - the cancer. And when we think about AI,
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  - we wanna one of the things that we
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  - wanna accomplish
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  - is can we use AI for access? Can
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  - we use AI for education?
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  - Can we use AI to inform,
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  - patients about their options?
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  - And most importantly, how can we use AI
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  - to streamline the workforce?
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  - I mean, the the the issues with cancer
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  - doctors today,
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  - as I've shared with you before, the met
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  - the multitude of patients who wanna see us,
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  - it's important for us to use artificial intelligence
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  - that's going to make sure that we are
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  - offering our patients and our workforce
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  - the opportunity to be streamlined.
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  - As an example, open evidence. Can we use
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  - open evidence to actually educate the doctor and
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  - educate the patient about the journey they're about
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  - to take? Can we use AI with respect
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  - to informed consents for clinical trials?
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  - So the answer to your question is we're
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  - on the journey as every other organization is,
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  - but I think we have to be clear
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  - that we wanna use AI to basically streamline
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  - the the process
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  - and the journey of the cancer patient, meaning
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  - the cancer doctor at the cancer institution
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  - in a way that makes their journey better.
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  - Absolutely. It sounds like kind of that mindset,
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  - I hear pop up every now and then
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  - of not
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  - using AI just because someone says, oh, it'll
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  - solve this problem. It's actually thinking what problems
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  - are we having, what challenges are we navigating,
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  - and how can AI help.
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  - And I think that, you know, it it
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  - you know, we are in a workforce in
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  - oncology that is
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  - challenged.
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  - I'm sure you know as as most of
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  - your listeners will know, there are not as
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  - many people going into oncology specialties as before
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  - at a time when the the number of
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  - cancer patients and cancer cases
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  - continues to grow up in our aging population.
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  - So what we have to do is we
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  - have to use technology
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  - to make sure that we're still delivering the
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  - best product for that given patient at the
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  - right time.
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  - Absolutely.
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  - And I'm gonna tack on to, you know,
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  - that aging population
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  - seed that you planted.
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  - When you think of the next generation of
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  - oncology leaders,
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  - is that one of the main challenges you
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  - think they're gonna have to solve or tackle,
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  - that the field maybe isn't tackling quite yet?
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  - Well so, look. I I think that that,
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  - leadership across all
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  - entities
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  - is evolving in this area of incredible technology,
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  - whether that's cancer or elsewhere.
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  - And I think I think that what we
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  - learn,
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  - as I talk to you about meeting the
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  - patient where they are, we also need to
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  - meet the doctor where they are. And next
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  - generation doctors may look at the workforce and
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  - their work product differently than when I came
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  - into the field many decades ago.
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  - Many of them want protected time. Many of
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  - them want to be able to do their
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  - science. Many of them wanna be able to
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  - make sure that they're taking care of their
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  - families appropriately.
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  - So I think leadership is going to require
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  - a holistic approach
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  - to make sure that the people that we're
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  - recruiting to the cancer field
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  - are feeling that they're going to be taken
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  - care of and not not not undergo
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  - a a relationship
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  - that's not going to be able to meet
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  - them with respect to their family,
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  - their finances,
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  - their workflow,
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  - and those leaders are evolving. I mean, I
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  - have no I have no doubt the people
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  - that I ran the fellowship program at UCLA
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  - for a dozen years. We have a fellowship
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  - program here at Cedars Sinai Health System. The
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  - people that wanna go into cancer are remarkable
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  - young people, and I have no doubt that
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  - they will lead us forward as we continue
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  - to make progress and discoveries.
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  - Absolutely. Well, that is a great place to
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  - take my very last question because I am
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  - lucky enough to get to talk to cancer
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  - leaders every single day, and I love
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  - to share
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  - their optimism and hope for the future because
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  - I thumb sometimes feel like that does get
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  - overlooked. So I'd love to hear
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  - from your vantage point what's giving you the
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  - most hope about the future of cancer care
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  - right now.
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  - Yeah. So so I I I I guess
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  - I can best answer that through the mirror
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  - of my career.
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  - At the beginning of my career, we often
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  - walked into a room with a cancer patient
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  - and talked to them about the limited options
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  - and the likelihood that they would succumb to
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  - the disease.
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  - Here I am fast forwarding several decades, many
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  - decades,
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  - and I walk into the room with a
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  - cancer patient, and I talk to them about
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  - how we could possibly cure them, that the
• 11:32
  - the therapies that we have available are novel,
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  - that they are,
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  - offering them a chance, for an outcome with
• 11:40
  - improved control of the morbidity as well as
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  - the potential mortality.
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  - And and I think that most people, as
• 11:46
  - I've often said to to to my community,
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  - oncologists are basically glass half full people. We
• 11:54
  - see the world through the lens of what
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  - can we accomplish for you. And whether it's
• 11:59
  - the science, the translation,
• 12:01
  - the delivery,
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  - I think we're all optimistic that science is
• 12:04
  - meeting the moment. We hope that our federal
• 12:07
  - government will continue to offer the opportunity to
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  - meet the moment, but I am more optimistic
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  - now for cancer patients and cancer families than
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  - ever before because we can do more
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  - than we've ever been able to do before.
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  - And that's a nice feeling when you've spent,
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  - decades in a career where, at times, that
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  - was not always the case.
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  - Absolutely. Thank you for framing it like that.
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  - It it it always gives me goosebumps, so
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  - I know it will,
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  - impact our listeners as well. Doctor Figlin, thank
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  - you so much for coming on the podcast
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  - and for sharing your insights.
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  - Thank you so much for having me. I
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  - wish you a good day. Take care. And
• 12:42
  - thank you to our listeners. I invite you
• 12:44
  - to check out even more Becker's healthcare podcasts
• 12:47
  - at beckerspodcasts.com.
• 12:50
  - Thank you again to doctor Figlin for joining
• 12:52
  - me today, and thank you again to our
• 12:54
  - listeners for tuning in. Goodbye.