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What we learned at Cubs Convention · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: They were not going to be able to outfit the Dodgers.
0:01
Speaker 1: That just wasn't going to happen. It was pretty clear
0:04
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of people in that front office
0:07
Speaker 1: that like him and have liked him. Welcome into Northside Territory.
0:17
Speaker 1: Foul Territory Networks. Cubs Podcast. I'm Sahadem Sharma with my
0:20
Speaker 1: partner Patrick Mooney, were your Cubs beat writers over at
0:24
Speaker 1: the Athletic and today we have a reunion Brett Taylor
0:31
Speaker 1: the show. Old podcast co host. Brett and I used
0:36
Speaker 1: to do a show I mean probably before the Athletic existed,
0:42
Speaker 1: A yeah, yeah, and then when the Athletics started, it
0:46
Speaker 1: was Brett, Patrick and I doing a show together that
0:49
Speaker 1: is no longer happening, and it's we kicked Brett out
0:54
Speaker 1: because he was so disruptive and offensive and disliked him.
1:00
Speaker 2: I showed up to the showed up to the podcast
1:02
Speaker 2: studio one day and I had like the red tape
1:03
Speaker 2: in my locker and I'm.
1:04
Speaker 3: Like, Jesus, you're clearly the diva of the podcast trio,
1:13
Speaker 3: you know, not unlike a certain former star player with
1:17
Speaker 3: the Cubs who returned.
1:18
Speaker 4: I think that would be you.
1:19
Speaker 2: Know, you guys didn't have too.
1:26
Speaker 1: Uh, Sammy Sosa did return the Cubs convention. Brett, you
1:30
Speaker 1: are the fan amongst the trio right here. How did
1:35
Speaker 1: it feel your reaction and what was the vibe like
1:38
Speaker 1: amongst the fans?
1:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say I'm not just the
1:42
Speaker 2: fan among us, I'm like the extremely spot on demo
1:46
Speaker 2: for Sammy returning to the Cubs organization. You know, I
1:49
Speaker 2: was one of these kids in the nineties for whom
1:53
Speaker 2: Sammy was not just the main focus of our Cubs fandom.
1:58
Speaker 2: He was sort of one of the focuses of our
2:00
Speaker 2: entire baseball fandom. And so to have had to have
2:05
Speaker 2: had this absence for a variety of reasons that we
2:07
Speaker 2: can or cannot get into, I didn't realize until this
2:13
Speaker 2: stuff started percolating how much I missed. Feeling cleans the
2:20
Speaker 2: wrong word. Feeling is simple about like just wanting to
2:24
Speaker 2: enjoy some Sammy stuff, Like it always felt like it
2:26
Speaker 2: came with a little asterisk. If I will that, You're like, well,
2:31
Speaker 2: you can't fully enjoy this. You won't see him in
2:33
Speaker 2: the ballpark. You won't see Sammy highlights in those mid
2:35
Speaker 2: inning switches. And so it was nice in that respect,
2:40
Speaker 2: and then certainly when he was announced at the convention
2:44
Speaker 2: during the opening ceremonies in tandem with a Cub's Hall
2:47
Speaker 2: of Fame announcement, it was clearly it was what everybody
2:53
Speaker 2: was there for. I mean, you could you could sense
2:55
Speaker 2: that just sort of wandering around folks. You could hear
2:58
Speaker 2: every conversation that people were having was about Sammy. It
3:01
Speaker 2: was about Sammy. And so I think to that end,
3:03
Speaker 2: the Cubs made the right call, and I think that
3:07
Speaker 2: fans got what they were hoping for. And of course
3:09
Speaker 2: Sammy coming out with the flag, like that's just that
3:12
Speaker 2: brings back a lot of good stuff.
3:15
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm curious you guys, your takeaway from this
3:18
Speaker 4: this weekend, Like obviously he's part of the team's Hall
3:21
Speaker 4: of Fame, so they have to come back. I'd imagine
3:25
Speaker 4: for that, Like do you do we think we're gonna
3:27
Speaker 4: see Sammy showing up in Mesa, thrown out first pitches,
3:31
Speaker 4: doing this sort of like meet and Great in the
3:35
Speaker 4: Legend suites at Wrigley Field. Because some of the it's
3:42
Speaker 4: I didn't feel like total closure, like it's still very
3:45
Speaker 4: much like Sammy's Like I didn't I apologize for not
3:47
Speaker 4: for depriving you of Sammy for.
3:49
Speaker 1: So long, and then you know, that was my favorite
3:53
Speaker 1: part of the weekend. I think I.
3:56
Speaker 4: Thought Tom Ricketts had a couple of interesting comments in
3:58
Speaker 4: that regard to like to me to describe as sort
4:01
Speaker 4: of like a loose end that needed to be tied up.
4:04
Speaker 4: So and there's you know, a long time has passed.
4:08
Speaker 4: There's not a lot of people like with the Cubs
4:10
Speaker 4: right now who are tight with saying I'm just wondering
4:13
Speaker 4: what you guys think in terms of his presence around Wrigleyville.
4:17
Speaker 1: Moving forward so real quickly. At one point, you know,
4:21
Speaker 1: we're behind stage interviewing people, waiting for people to interview,
4:24
Speaker 1: right and and Sammy comes by with a huge entourage,
4:29
Speaker 1: just like ten to fifteen people with him, and he's
4:33
Speaker 1: like giving us all like high fives, like where you know,
4:36
Speaker 1: like he's entering like a football game or something like that,
4:39
Speaker 1: a huge playoff game, and he sees Paul Sullivan, you know,
4:42
Speaker 1: probably one of the few of us that he knows well.
4:46
Speaker 1: And I think Sully asked him straight up like, so
4:48
Speaker 1: are you going to be around more? And it was
4:50
Speaker 1: kind of you know, it wasn't like, oh yeah, I'll
4:52
Speaker 1: be there every other weekend, but he made it sound
4:55
Speaker 1: like he's going to be around. What does that mean
4:57
Speaker 1: in what capacity? That'll be interesting to see, But I
5:01
Speaker 1: thought that was that was interesting that you know, Selly's
5:04
Speaker 1: not afraid to ask anything, so you just straight up
5:06
Speaker 1: as yeah, yeah.
5:10
Speaker 2: I'd be surprised if Sammy's around for too much of
5:14
Speaker 2: the baseball oriented stuff and as opposed to the eventized things,
5:18
Speaker 2: which I think kind of serves Sammy a bit. I
5:22
Speaker 2: say this without any judgment, but as you note, Sammy
5:26
Speaker 2: likes the energy, he likes the crowd, he likes to
5:28
Speaker 2: be the focus, and I think the Cubs for now
5:33
Speaker 2: recognize that there's value in playing to that, there's value
5:37
Speaker 2: with the fans, there's value in Sammy, and so i'd
5:40
Speaker 2: be surprised if it was like a casual return as
5:43
Speaker 2: we've seen from like we see some of the other
5:45
Speaker 2: legends doing. But I think we will. You know, I've
5:50
Speaker 2: got to believe he's gonna there'll be the Hall of
5:52
Speaker 2: Fame weekend, but he'll he'll come throw first pitch, she'll
5:55
Speaker 2: sing the stretch that that kind of stuff. Maybe, And
5:58
Speaker 2: if he made an appearance in Mesa, it would be
6:00
Speaker 2: like Sammy appearance day as opposed to I's shown up
6:04
Speaker 2: to work with the outfielders and show them some real.
6:11
Speaker 1: I will say that, like it did touch like it
6:14
Speaker 1: was nice to see that, and the reaction to Ryan
6:17
Speaker 1: Samberg as well, Like those were probably my two favorite
6:20
Speaker 1: things about the opening ceremonies. Uh, just like observing them.
6:25
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean, I think Brett, I like Brett's
6:28
Speaker 1: point about and I think we wondered this last week Patrick,
6:31
Speaker 1: but like they don't they don't show the highlights of
6:33
Speaker 1: Sammy in the game. I wasn't one hundred percent sure
6:36
Speaker 1: if I was right on that. But here's how I
6:38
Speaker 1: think how it's like something small that's enjoyable.
6:41
Speaker 2: You know, is this extreme. Within the last like three
6:44
Speaker 2: years or so, there would be a very occasional stat
6:49
Speaker 2: that would pop up on one of the like ribbon
6:51
Speaker 2: boards or something sort of like Cubs Historta. And if
6:54
Speaker 2: Sammy showed up on one of those, which by the way,
6:56
Speaker 2: never used to happen, it was so notable, Like we'd
7:00
Speaker 2: be in the stands being like, hey, do you see
7:02
Speaker 2: that I saw Sosa up on the up on the board.
7:04
Speaker 2: It was that's how infrequent any kind of connective tissue
7:08
Speaker 2: was in the ballpark with the Cubs to Sammy.
7:10
Speaker 4: Sosa, Yeah, I did like to just in reading the
7:14
Speaker 4: quotes from Derek Lee, who I only briefly cross paths with,
7:18
Speaker 4: but has this just great reputation for being a class act,
7:24
Speaker 4: and I think had been sort of a peacemaker at
7:27
Speaker 4: times or you know, a level head during his time
7:30
Speaker 4: with the Cubs, and he's he has this great honor.
7:33
Speaker 4: You know, he had an amazing career, not a Cooperstown
7:35
Speaker 4: Hall of Fame career, but just kind of on that borderline.
7:38
Speaker 4: He gets, you know, inducted into the Cubs Hall of Fame,
7:41
Speaker 4: and he's getting sort of Sammy questions because I felt
7:44
Speaker 4: like he was a guy that people would go to,
7:46
Speaker 4: you know, if Carlos Sobrano did something and like, you know,
7:48
Speaker 4: he'd give the go and whatever was going on, d
7:51
Speaker 4: Lee seemed like a voice of reason and still even
7:54
Speaker 4: on when he's honored, he's asking kind of questions about that,
7:57
Speaker 4: and once again he gave a really good answer. You know,
8:00
Speaker 4: a long time has passed, you know, something about you know, forgiveness,
8:05
Speaker 4: whatever whatever it was, but I thought it was the
8:07
Speaker 4: sentiment was spot on.
8:10
Speaker 2: Shouts to Dee Lee. By the way, fans were. It's
8:12
Speaker 2: overshadowed by the Sami thing, but fans were genuinely I
8:15
Speaker 2: think excited and happy to see him there, to see him, honored.
8:18
Speaker 2: To think back in his time with the Cubs, I mean,
8:21
Speaker 2: there were some really really high highs.
8:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that two thousand and five season probably almost
8:27
Speaker 1: made us not appreciate his other seasons because he was
8:31
Speaker 1: he was pretty consistent. He just never reached that elite
8:33
Speaker 1: elite status again. All right, there was some stuff that happened.
8:38
Speaker 1: As far as Newsy tidbits. There was a surprise right
8:43
Speaker 1: at Tanner Scott going to the Dodgers. Is not a
8:45
Speaker 1: surprise that the Cubs were gonna say that the Cubs,
8:52
Speaker 1: that the Cubs were as aggressive as they were, that
8:56
Speaker 1: the Cubs, you know there they they came in second
9:01
Speaker 1: in this chase for Tanner Scott. They I did some
9:04
Speaker 1: reporting over the weekend and found out that they they
9:07
Speaker 1: were hot and heavy on him. But like I knew
9:10
Speaker 1: that they they did not they were not going to
9:12
Speaker 1: be able to outfit the Dodgers. That just wasn't going
9:14
Speaker 1: to happen. It was pretty clear that, uh, there's a
9:17
Speaker 1: lot of people in the front office that like him
9:20
Speaker 1: and have liked him. This is not like a new
9:22
Speaker 1: thing where you know, they suddenly realized, Hey, Tanner Scott's
9:25
Speaker 1: a guy we like. Know that they've they've tried to
9:28
Speaker 1: acquire him for this is this would be you know,
9:31
Speaker 1: it's been two years now that they've liked Tanner Scott. Uh.
9:35
Speaker 1: It's I think it's interesting that the Cubs are so
9:38
Speaker 1: willing to uh go out of their Jed's comfort zone
9:42
Speaker 1: with the offer that they made. Uh. I think it's
9:45
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's frustrating for someone like Brett and and
9:49
Speaker 1: the executives that the Dodgers are able to do this consistently.
9:53
Speaker 1: But does it give you optimism, Brett, that they're willing
9:57
Speaker 1: to do this uh at all?
10:01
Speaker 2: Well to your point, I will concede that it was
10:04
Speaker 2: especially aggravating to see this front office finally extending in
10:09
Speaker 2: that way for a particular player and a particular need
10:15
Speaker 2: that was clear to everyone. They have a certain amount
10:17
Speaker 2: of remaining resources. This would have been the best use
10:21
Speaker 2: of those resources, I think, and to go that multi
10:25
Speaker 2: year offer of significant dollars to a late any reliever
10:29
Speaker 2: is just not something that this front office and even
10:32
Speaker 2: not that much the preceding front office would do, so
10:36
Speaker 2: it was especially aggravating the fact that they were willing
10:41
Speaker 2: to do it and they didn't just lose out. They
10:43
Speaker 2: lose out to the Dodgers, and it's like, you know,
10:46
Speaker 2: I had some words yesterday for just just sort of
10:50
Speaker 2: allowed to myself about that. And I do question, by
10:53
Speaker 2: the way, with the deferrals just saying it's possible if
10:56
Speaker 2: the Cub's offer was actually more real dollar present day
11:00
Speaker 2: value money, just saying it's possible, which would make it
11:03
Speaker 2: all the more aggravating. So, you know, I think it's
11:06
Speaker 2: easy enough because of the the for precisely the reason
11:10
Speaker 2: you said, the desirability of this particular player to this
11:12
Speaker 2: front office kind of makes easy for them, maybe not publicly,
11:17
Speaker 2: but to feel like, well, this was just one guy
11:20
Speaker 2: that we were going to extend for. It's like the
11:21
Speaker 2: offer for Shoheo Tani. Totally different players, totally different tiers,
11:25
Speaker 2: but it was like, yeah, we were willing to go
11:26
Speaker 2: to five hundred million for a guy like that, but
11:30
Speaker 2: basically no one else. And you do wonder with the
11:33
Speaker 2: late inning reliever stuff, like are they even going to
11:35
Speaker 2: be willing to go to two years on some of
11:37
Speaker 2: the remaining guys, I don't know, I have no confidence
11:40
Speaker 2: in that because they haven't done it.
11:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard for me to get worked up. Like
11:47
Speaker 4: Tanner Scott's obviously has been a great reliev reliever for
11:50
Speaker 4: a couple of years, but like four and seventy two
11:56
Speaker 4: is a lot. And I'm not someone who like generally
11:58
Speaker 4: like kind of like uh tis tests teams for spending.
12:02
Speaker 4: But it's just like, I don't know if Tanner Scott
12:05
Speaker 4: was walking down the street, would anyone recognize him? Like
12:09
Speaker 4: to me, it felt a little bit like a Brandon
12:12
Speaker 4: Moro like kind of like let's get this guy at
12:14
Speaker 4: the absolute top of his peak and like go all
12:17
Speaker 4: out for that. And then Tanner Scott's been more healthy
12:21
Speaker 4: than Brandon Morrol. But Tanner Scott also wasn't. I mean,
12:25
Speaker 4: Brandon Morril was a like top of the first round
12:27
Speaker 4: pick we were talking about, you know, Andrew Miller. You know,
12:30
Speaker 4: he was a great reliever, but he was also like
12:34
Speaker 4: I think a top five, top ten draft pick. He
12:36
Speaker 4: was like traded for mcgal cabrero like Tanner Scott. I know,
12:39
Speaker 4: the cub has been all over this guy for a while.
12:41
Speaker 4: I get why they would want him when he's pitching
12:44
Speaker 4: like the seventh or eighth inning for the Marlins and
12:46
Speaker 4: go be aggressive. Then I'm just not sure this is
12:49
Speaker 4: the one to like rip the Cubs on. I thought
12:52
Speaker 4: it was revealing, like seeing that, you know, four and
12:56
Speaker 4: sixty six is kind of out there, that's what we've
12:59
Speaker 4: kind of heard, haven't confirmed, right side, that's kind of
13:02
Speaker 4: our yea as maybe a ballpark where they're willing to go.
13:05
Speaker 4: Clearly they have room for another significant addition at least.
13:13
Speaker 4: That just makes me wonder how they're gonna break this up.
13:15
Speaker 4: Is it Jack Flarity gets antsy later? Is it another
13:20
Speaker 4: one of these other relievers that the Cubs always tell
13:24
Speaker 4: us are interchangeable and you know, we can infrastructure them up,
13:27
Speaker 4: like maybe that's it. And clearly they don't have much
13:31
Speaker 4: of a bench like at all, So I don't know.
13:35
Speaker 4: It'd be interesting these next next couple of weeks here,
13:37
Speaker 4: like I think it'll be. I'm not thinking Alex Bregman,
13:40
Speaker 4: but I'm curious how they sort of pivot after missing
13:43
Speaker 4: out Scott.
13:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Bregman isn't happening. I think that's the quickest
13:50
Speaker 1: way to move on from Bregman. It's not it's not
13:53
Speaker 1: gonna happen. But you know, I think Jack Clarity is
13:57
Speaker 1: a possibility. I I heard that his market is just
14:01
Speaker 1: almost non existent at the moment, and that's exactly I mean.
14:05
Speaker 1: Jed was clear to us, like very clear priority is
14:08
Speaker 1: bullpen and the bench right but he when asked about
14:13
Speaker 1: starting pitching, he said he'd be opportunistic. This is being opportunistic.
14:17
Speaker 1: Jack Clarity has no market right now, Like at some
14:20
Speaker 1: point he's gonna have to say, like, I'm not getting
14:22
Speaker 1: my five year deal. Well, the Cubs do the three
14:25
Speaker 1: year deal with an opt out. That makes more sense
14:27
Speaker 1: with him than it does for Bregman because you're not
14:29
Speaker 1: losing a draft pick and ifa money. Like that's that's
14:32
Speaker 1: something you have to weigh when you're talking about Bregman. Also,
14:35
Speaker 1: they just don't have the money. When I say don't
14:37
Speaker 1: have the money, the budget is set at a point
14:39
Speaker 1: where they don't really have the budget that the front
14:42
Speaker 1: office isn't given the money to spend on Bregman. It's
14:45
Speaker 1: just not gonna happen. But Clarity, depending on what his
14:49
Speaker 1: price is, I think that could make sense and you
14:51
Speaker 1: can still fill out the bench and get reliever. The
14:54
Speaker 1: question is, I don't think Tanner Scott is indicative of
14:58
Speaker 1: their sudden willingness to this consistently with relievers. I think
15:01
Speaker 1: they've identified Scott as the guy that they were willing
15:04
Speaker 1: to do that for. Kirby Yates's market is is pretty
15:08
Speaker 1: robust from what I understand. I'm not sure if the
15:10
Speaker 1: Cubs are going to be willing to pay the price
15:12
Speaker 1: that it'll take to get Kirby Yates. But there are
15:14
Speaker 1: other guys out there. We'll we'll see, we'll see who
15:17
Speaker 1: it is. But I thought they were pretty clear that
15:21
Speaker 1: they're getting a reliever and someone that could be pretty good.
15:26
Speaker 1: When I say pretty good, like we we know the
15:28
Speaker 1: name and and it's not it's not purely the like
15:32
Speaker 1: a bunch of NR eyes that they're going to get
15:34
Speaker 1: one more established reliever. Is it someone that has closing history?
15:38
Speaker 1: Is it someone that they like that can that they
15:42
Speaker 1: can kind of play up, Like Ryan Stanek was a
15:45
Speaker 1: name that I heard film the Tone. It was another
15:48
Speaker 1: name I like film theatone a lot. So we'll we'll see,
15:53
Speaker 1: we'll see. But none those aren't closures, but you know
15:56
Speaker 1: they're they're veterans. Uh So I I don't know, Like,
16:00
Speaker 1: you know, Kenny Jansen, that's the name you could throw around.
16:03
Speaker 1: David Robertson loved pitching in Chicago, had a lot of
16:06
Speaker 1: good things to say about Tommy Hotteby. So so there
16:10
Speaker 1: are other pictures that they could get a go after.
16:14
Speaker 1: Tanner Scott was at another level that clearly is not
16:19
Speaker 1: possible to reach by a free agency. We'll see if
16:22
Speaker 1: there's a surprise name by a trade.
16:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are always harder to predict, like who's actually
16:28
Speaker 2: available out there? And let me make the point that
16:30
Speaker 2: I think probably people are thinking when you talk about
16:33
Speaker 2: a Jack Flaherty edition that even if the focus is
16:36
Speaker 2: the bullpen, it is true that, of course, if you
16:38
Speaker 2: add someone like Flarerty, you are necessarily increasing the depth
16:42
Speaker 2: and overall volume of innings available, which will positively impact
16:45
Speaker 2: the bullpen. But the big butt is it doesn't push
16:50
Speaker 2: some late inning arm from the rotation into the bullpen.
16:55
Speaker 2: You know, I think there are some interesting potential characters
16:59
Speaker 2: in that group. Ben Brown, you do wonder what do
17:01
Speaker 2: you would look like if there's no rotation spot for him?
17:05
Speaker 2: Do they try that? But ultimately, adding Flaherty is really
17:11
Speaker 2: more about just as deepening, a rotation that is strong
17:17
Speaker 2: in length, but maybe not so much an impact in
17:21
Speaker 2: those mid rotation guys, which you know, I don't know.
17:25
Speaker 2: It reminds me a lot of the bullpen tons and
17:27
Speaker 2: tons and tons of volume of a certain caliber, but
17:31
Speaker 2: missing that impact Guy and Scott would have been it.
17:35
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Speaker 1: Good, good, go ahead, No, we go the next one.
18:43
Speaker 6: I got it.
18:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other tidbit that came out and
18:47
Speaker 1: that I felt was newzy was they were pretty clear that, yeah,
18:51
Speaker 1: are they will they maybe add more competition for third base.
18:55
Speaker 1: That's possible. But it sounds like Matt Shaw has does
19:00
Speaker 1: have a pretty easy path to winning this job. Not
19:03
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say easy path. We you know, we'll see
19:06
Speaker 1: what that competition is. It sounds like right now it's
19:08
Speaker 1: gauge workman Vidal Bruhan. That's not If they feel that
19:13
Speaker 1: Shaw's just not ready, I guess you can. One of
19:16
Speaker 1: those guys is gonna have to, you know, get take
19:19
Speaker 1: the job or whoever this mystery addition could be. Uh,
19:24
Speaker 1: But Shaw has the path. Shaw Shaw has been told
19:29
Speaker 1: that he has a chance to win the job. He's
19:31
Speaker 1: not someone that's overconfident, but he's willing to put in
19:34
Speaker 1: the work. I really like the way he carries himself
19:36
Speaker 1: and the way he talked to us. Very knowledgeable kid.
19:39
Speaker 1: I asked him about like his leg kicks, because I've
19:42
Speaker 1: been hearing from scouts that his leg kick is an issue.
19:45
Speaker 1: They're they're concerned about his leg kick. He gave me
19:48
Speaker 1: some really good answers, and he understands like he is
19:51
Speaker 1: he I know this is like he obviously needs to
19:53
Speaker 1: know baseball. He plays baseball at a very high level,
19:56
Speaker 1: but he understands these things and can communicate it really well.
19:59
Speaker 1: And I was impressed by the knowledge of the game
20:03
Speaker 1: that he possesses. Like he was talking about how different
20:05
Speaker 1: players have like can get to success different ways. My
20:09
Speaker 1: body works in a way where this light kick works
20:11
Speaker 1: for my timing. He's like, look at Showy Atani. He
20:13
Speaker 1: can do it with the toe tap. He's just a
20:15
Speaker 1: freaking nature like does it with a toe tap, can
20:17
Speaker 1: hit any pitch. He's like, look at my trap, look
20:19
Speaker 1: at Alex Bregman. My body's more like them. He's like,
20:21
Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm not comparing myself to those players, but
20:24
Speaker 1: look at how they get to their power. Look at
20:26
Speaker 1: how they do that. They have small they don't have
20:28
Speaker 1: the long levers like show. Hey, they have shorter levers
20:31
Speaker 1: like I do. And and he can get to his power,
20:33
Speaker 1: get to different types of pitches and use that. I
20:37
Speaker 1: thought it was interesting, like he knows that this could
20:39
Speaker 1: be something that others would would pick apart, and he
20:42
Speaker 1: understands why it works for him. That was just one
20:45
Speaker 1: little thing, Like I like how hard he works to
20:47
Speaker 1: get to his defense to improve his defense. Reports that
20:50
Speaker 1: I got early in the season were bad, and they
20:53
Speaker 1: changed by the time I started talking to more people
20:55
Speaker 1: in the off season. They're like, actually, I think this
20:57
Speaker 1: guy can hang there and maybe be pretty good. The
21:00
Speaker 1: arm isn't you know. Plus, but it's not like a
21:03
Speaker 1: guy that works like him can can get the average.
21:07
Speaker 1: I just think it's an interesting situation. We'll see how
21:09
Speaker 1: good he could be.
21:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, Sorry, Patrick, I didn't know rhythm like
21:19
Speaker 2: maybe yeah, I jump in. No, I think you know,
21:23
Speaker 2: the Cubs had to have known at the time they
21:25
Speaker 2: were making the Kyle Tucker trade that Matt Shaw would
21:29
Speaker 2: be playable defensively at third base. I mean that's I mean,
21:33
Speaker 2: it's my opinion but I don't think you make that
21:36
Speaker 2: trade losing paradus looking at the rest of what you
21:40
Speaker 2: have available, knowing that the market is not loaded with
21:44
Speaker 2: sort of super high quality third base options. I think
21:47
Speaker 2: there had to have been some comfort there that that
21:51
Speaker 2: he would at least be able to, you know, pull
21:54
Speaker 2: a Nick Madrigal and be reasonably effective there. And of
21:58
Speaker 2: course Magical got pretty darn And I did see was
22:01
Speaker 2: that in your Guys piece where he referenced the way
22:04
Speaker 2: that Magical used his feet to sort of supplement.
22:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
22:07
Speaker 2: I love hearing.
22:08
Speaker 1: I love hearing that.
22:09
Speaker 2: I mean, I know some folks are probably not gonna
22:10
Speaker 2: love hearing that because of the implications are that it
22:13
Speaker 2: confirms maybe their arms.
22:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard it, and I was like, but no,
22:18
Speaker 1: that was he sometimes ran to like the mound to
22:22
Speaker 1: get them over there.
22:23
Speaker 2: Some of those Yeah, some of those clips are But
22:27
Speaker 2: but I mean, you know, we use, we use the
22:30
Speaker 2: body we're given, and I do think that there are
22:33
Speaker 2: ways ways to, you know, improve your overall effectiveness. And
22:38
Speaker 2: we knew coming out of the draft that it was
22:40
Speaker 2: unlikely he was going to stick a shortstop because of
22:43
Speaker 2: the arm. And for now, second base is Nico's and
22:46
Speaker 2: and maybe longer term they're thinking that. For for Mattshaw,
22:50
Speaker 2: I think what'll be interesting is depending on what supplements
22:54
Speaker 2: they make to the bench. I'm sure they would love
22:56
Speaker 2: to have someone and they of course said this at
22:58
Speaker 2: the convention. They'd love to have someone there. Almost is
23:00
Speaker 2: like guardrails at third base for Mattshaw, so that they're
23:03
Speaker 2: not so reliant on it. But in those first those
23:07
Speaker 2: first two games, certainly in Japan, but maybe for the
23:09
Speaker 2: first little bit of the season, if Nico is still
23:12
Speaker 2: getting ramped up, do you play Matt Shaw at second base?
23:16
Speaker 2: Do you disrupt that work he's been doing at third,
23:19
Speaker 2: Because if you've got a guy on the bench that
23:20
Speaker 2: you like at third, you know, if they signed Moncata
23:22
Speaker 2: and they're like, well, let's give him a chance to
23:24
Speaker 2: bounce back, well, you're not gonna put him, I think
23:28
Speaker 2: I do. I just wonder if the Cubs are going
23:31
Speaker 2: to be willing to just immediately bounce Shaw back to
23:33
Speaker 2: second base, even if he's been doing work at third,
23:35
Speaker 2: and even if his path is at third base, because
23:38
Speaker 2: if you don't have Nico, well you still have to
23:40
Speaker 2: make do with your best option at second base.
23:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like Mattshaw as a prospect. I've heard the
23:49
Speaker 4: same things you guys have of just like a really
23:51
Speaker 4: mature dude who's like obsessed with baseball. I think that
23:56
Speaker 4: comes across when you talk to him and talk to
23:59
Speaker 4: people around him. This is kind of getting into that
24:03
Speaker 4: area though, where I think people get caught up in
24:05
Speaker 4: the Cubs convention optimism of like Christopher Burrell can play
24:09
Speaker 4: third base, and you know how they've supplemented their bench
24:13
Speaker 4: in recent years. Look, everyone has misses in these areas,
24:16
Speaker 4: but the you know, the Trey Mancinies, what was it,
24:20
Speaker 4: Jonathan Vr, like just those types of guys, And that's
24:23
Speaker 4: not where a front office, you know, should be judged on.
24:25
Speaker 4: But within the constructs the Cubs have created for their team.
24:30
Speaker 4: This sort of like around the CBT, but probably won't
24:34
Speaker 4: get there until the end of the year, assuming the
24:39
Speaker 4: team is in contention and we add at the deadline.
24:42
Speaker 4: It's like they're and son off. You and I were
24:45
Speaker 4: talking about this, like the margin for error here for
24:47
Speaker 4: this front office, and I know I'm zooming out here,
24:49
Speaker 4: but it's a lot of Mattchaw's got to be really
24:52
Speaker 4: really good. Peek Armstrong and Michael Bush cannot have a
24:55
Speaker 4: sophomore slump, our two goal love. Middle infielders have to
25:01
Speaker 4: recover from season off season surgeries really really quickly. And
25:09
Speaker 4: you know that's not even getting into you know, the
25:12
Speaker 4: rotation which was like exceptionally like healthy and productive in
25:16
Speaker 4: a weather aided home portion of the schedule, and a
25:21
Speaker 4: bullpen that hasn't really been fixed yet. And so that's
25:26
Speaker 4: why I like, I think you can like Matt Shaw
25:29
Speaker 4: sort of in the abstract, but also look at it
25:31
Speaker 4: like they got a ton of work to do before
25:33
Speaker 4: they get to Mason.
25:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't disagree, like this isn't a like
25:39
Speaker 1: Matt Shaw is the answer as much as it looks.
25:43
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, and your your story did not come arounds
25:45
Speaker 4: that way. It was just like that was the story
25:47
Speaker 4: you had to write that day. It was just more
25:49
Speaker 4: like some of the other stuff going around the team
25:53
Speaker 4: makes you like that.
25:53
Speaker 1: No, it's why, it's why, if I you know, it's
25:58
Speaker 1: why there should be frustrations about the inability to get
26:01
Speaker 1: Alex Bregman right, Like they can't get they can't sign
26:04
Speaker 1: out Bregman because they have these artificial restrictions in place
26:08
Speaker 1: with their budget, right, and they don't act like a
26:11
Speaker 1: top five market. They are spending close to the luxury tax. Uh,
26:17
Speaker 1: and that that's going to put them if they even
26:19
Speaker 1: end up there. I mean, where's that going to put them?
26:21
Speaker 1: Like eight in baseball? That's not where they should be,
26:26
Speaker 1: Like it just shouldn't. I Like I I've been saying
26:30
Speaker 1: this for multiple years. They need to be a top
26:32
Speaker 1: five payroll year in a year out. It's just how
26:34
Speaker 1: it should be. They make so much money. They're the
26:37
Speaker 1: one of the biggest tea franchises in all of sports really,
26:41
Speaker 1: and it's just you know, it should be Yankees, Mets, Dodgers,
26:47
Speaker 1: Red Sox, and Cubs. You know, in whatever order that's
26:50
Speaker 1: going to be, Mets and Dodgers are going to be
26:51
Speaker 1: at the top, right just the way things work right now.
26:53
Speaker 1: But like, there's no reason they shouldn't be right there
26:55
Speaker 1: with the Red Sox behind the Yankees. But that's not
26:59
Speaker 1: that's not the reality. They're living in this runt offices
27:01
Speaker 1: living in so they have to try and find ways
27:04
Speaker 1: to like, like like you said, the margins, they're working
27:07
Speaker 1: within these margins, so they have to find extra value.
27:10
Speaker 1: It's probably why Jet is obsessed with saying things that
27:12
Speaker 1: drive everyone nuts, like outperform projections and the marginal value
27:18
Speaker 1: of a win and all this stuff like that's not
27:20
Speaker 1: that's not what anyone wants to hear, but it's just
27:22
Speaker 1: what they have to do. That's that's what they're working.
27:25
Speaker 2: With, solving for wins. They're solving for wins.
27:29
Speaker 1: Uh.
27:30
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we'd be remiss not to note some
27:33
Speaker 2: of the comments from Tom Ricketts this weekend and multiple
27:37
Speaker 2: places including The Athletic, about spending and about what seemed
27:42
Speaker 2: to be his frustration that, from his perspective, fans don't
27:45
Speaker 2: appreciate the financial difference between the Dodgers, for example, and
27:50
Speaker 2: the Cubs. And that's He's not wrong. The Dodgers have
27:54
Speaker 2: a uniquely ironclad TV deal from a different era that
27:59
Speaker 2: is completely well funded that is just a transformative thing
28:03
Speaker 2: for their revenue. Now. Of course, they've used that wisely
28:06
Speaker 2: to generate even more revenue by winning games and becoming
28:09
Speaker 2: very popular and bringing in stars. But that's not a
28:12
Speaker 2: path available to the Cubs. The Yankees are sort of
28:14
Speaker 2: always on a different tier, and the Mets have Steve
28:16
Speaker 2: Cohen backing with off field money. But as you said,
28:22
Speaker 2: even if we agree and you push aside those three,
28:25
Speaker 2: I think there's still some fan frustration that the Cubs
28:28
Speaker 2: aren't necessarily spending where the Phillies are or the Rangers are,
28:31
Speaker 2: where the Giants are, Like, these are peer organizations in
28:35
Speaker 2: terms of what the market should generate, and I think
28:39
Speaker 2: that if it's true that the Cubs can't, then there's
28:43
Speaker 2: some questions that need to be asked about, are you
28:46
Speaker 2: actually monetizing as well as you could? Are you bringing
28:48
Speaker 2: in revenues as well as you could? Where are those
28:50
Speaker 2: revenues coming from? Are they then being they don't count
28:54
Speaker 2: as as baseball revenues and so they can't be used
28:56
Speaker 2: for baseball ops And we're never going to get answers
28:59
Speaker 2: to these questions, you know, But I don't think you
29:01
Speaker 2: can have it both ways. You can't be opaque, because
29:05
Speaker 2: all organizations are going to be opaque on this stuff.
29:07
Speaker 2: They I get that, But you can't be opaque and
29:10
Speaker 2: then be frustrated when fans are like, well, why aren't
29:12
Speaker 2: you spending like these teams? Sorry, we're gonna be frustrated.
29:15
Speaker 2: And that's just how it's gonna be, how it's been
29:17
Speaker 2: since time immemorial.
29:20
Speaker 4: Honestly, I don't think he Rickets is even that frustrated
29:22
Speaker 4: with it. To be honest with you, like he says
29:25
Speaker 4: these things matter of factly, and like I talked to
29:28
Speaker 4: him Friday, he did some more media, I guess on Saturday,
29:33
Speaker 4: but he's essentially said the same thing before you if
29:35
Speaker 4: you track, like if you just created Google doc and
29:39
Speaker 4: his quotes from almost every Cup's convention, you know, in
29:44
Speaker 4: the last several years, it's Steve Cohen is like the
29:48
Speaker 4: rich Stoner in baseball and the Dodgers have and in
29:51
Speaker 4: saying TV deal like that's that's been sort of asked
29:54
Speaker 4: and answered, And I think the issue is that payroll
29:59
Speaker 4: sort of been flat if you go back to like
30:02
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, like it has not risen at a time
30:05
Speaker 4: when the Phillies just decided to spend more that was
30:09
Speaker 4: an ownership choice. You have Steve Cohen coming in for
30:13
Speaker 4: a time, you had the Padres just totally kind of
30:17
Speaker 4: reimagining what that market could be. The Rangers went for
30:22
Speaker 4: it and then won their World Series and sort of
30:25
Speaker 4: backtracked after win the World Series and their TV deal collapsing.
30:32
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean that's a valid criticism of why
30:36
Speaker 4: hasn't it gone to that other level? I just think
30:40
Speaker 4: too that they give themselves these wiggle room, Like I
30:44
Speaker 4: imagine they had signed Tanner Scott yesterday, you know what
30:47
Speaker 4: I mean, Like he would have said that Saturday, and
30:49
Speaker 4: then Sunday they could point to, oh hey see look
30:51
Speaker 4: at this, and I do think they will wind up
30:55
Speaker 4: around that CBT level. I think it. It's certainly frustrating
31:02
Speaker 4: why it has why they essentially have to prove it
31:06
Speaker 4: in the first half, or why they have to wait
31:08
Speaker 4: until prices to drop closer to spring training, or why.
31:14
Speaker 2: The CBT level is definitely the ceiling.
31:17
Speaker 4: I mean, there's right, that's a choice, like they've just chosen.
31:20
Speaker 4: It's now they run their business like I think, like
31:22
Speaker 4: anyone who's followed this team knows that this is just
31:26
Speaker 4: how it works. And so I think when we try
31:30
Speaker 4: to talk to him, it's figuring out, Okay, what does
31:31
Speaker 4: this mean right now? If we're looking at this window here,
31:34
Speaker 4: like we've ruled out bragmant like that just number is
31:37
Speaker 4: not going to work there. You can do other things.
31:44
Speaker 4: And that's why I think it's it was interesting because
31:46
Speaker 4: I think this bodes well for Jed Hoyer to be
31:49
Speaker 4: honest with you, like they can't, you know, finish in
31:53
Speaker 4: last place. But if they get to like eighty six
31:57
Speaker 4: wins and you see a lot of good things from
32:00
Speaker 4: but they just missed the playoffs for whatever reason. If
32:05
Speaker 4: you're the he's running the team the way they want.
32:09
Speaker 4: And now I'm not saying that you know Jet's perfect
32:12
Speaker 4: or that the Ricketts priorities are always in line, but
32:16
Speaker 4: like they're all sort of on the same page here,
32:19
Speaker 4: even council, Like it's still getting more resources than he
32:24
Speaker 4: did in Milwaukee. Like it's probably not everything he wants,
32:26
Speaker 4: but it's he's still in a better spot your year
32:30
Speaker 4: financially than he was in Milwaukee. Obviously, Carter's entire professional
32:35
Speaker 4: baseball experience was in Cleveland before he got to Chicago.
32:39
Speaker 4: And then you have an owner who sets the budget,
32:41
Speaker 4: which is not as high as anyone would want because
32:45
Speaker 4: you always want more if you're in baseball ops. But
32:49
Speaker 4: then again, if you're jed, you have an owner who
32:51
Speaker 4: doesn't like tell you what to do, who's not meddling,
32:54
Speaker 4: who's not going behind your back and talking to agents
32:56
Speaker 4: or trying to trade players or close deals. So it's like,
33:00
Speaker 4: unless they're willing to kind of blow everything up, this
33:05
Speaker 4: is kind of how they run their team, and maybe
33:07
Speaker 4: I'm too close to it, but that that was kind
33:09
Speaker 4: of my main takeaway from this weekend on that topic.
33:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so there's there's so there will always
33:17
Speaker 1: be fans that complain about payroll, right, like spend more
33:19
Speaker 1: and more and more and I and I get it,
33:21
Speaker 1: like that's that's fine. I'm not going to dismiss those complaints.
33:24
Speaker 1: I think my my issue with it would stop if
33:27
Speaker 1: you were like around two sixty, right and and like
33:30
Speaker 1: kind of in that Padre's Phillies, whoever else the non
33:36
Speaker 1: you know trio of Mets, Yankees, Dodgers, if you're just
33:40
Speaker 1: you know, in a in a group with Phillies and
33:42
Speaker 1: Rangers and whoever else it may be at that time,
33:47
Speaker 1: I think that makes sense to me. I think that's
33:49
Speaker 1: where they should be. It's not the reality they're they're
33:51
Speaker 1: playing with. So we kind of have to analyze it
33:53
Speaker 1: in in our own way occasionally bring this up in
33:56
Speaker 1: my opinion, as mean, we can bring it up on occasion,
33:58
Speaker 1: but like dwelling on constantly is just like it's like
34:02
Speaker 1: what are we doing here? Like we need to move
34:04
Speaker 1: on at a certain point and actually talk about the
34:06
Speaker 1: baseball and and kind of analyze how does Jed doing
34:09
Speaker 1: with what he has to work with? And I think
34:11
Speaker 1: that's that's the best way to try and look at
34:14
Speaker 1: this beyond you know, saying this is this is our
34:18
Speaker 1: criticism of ownership. That yeah, that's just generally how I
34:24
Speaker 1: how I look at it. I think that's not too
34:26
Speaker 1: dissimilar from you Patrick, And.
34:29
Speaker 4: Just to think to be clear, just one quick thing
34:31
Speaker 4: as I pulled it up on like the ESPN story
34:34
Speaker 4: from the CBT last year, like the Braves should not
34:37
Speaker 4: have a payroll that's like thirty five million dollars more
34:40
Speaker 4: than the Cubs, and like the Astros should not have
34:42
Speaker 4: a payroll that's like twenty five million dollars more than
34:45
Speaker 4: the Cups. Like that is silly. I am just curious
34:50
Speaker 4: to see how they respond to some of this, Like
34:53
Speaker 4: is do they see, Okay, we got Kyle Tucker, They're
34:56
Speaker 4: willing to go to this level for Tanner Scott, Like,
34:59
Speaker 4: will they apply a little more, We'll ownership apply a
35:03
Speaker 4: little more pressure. Will the front office ask for a
35:06
Speaker 4: little more where they push their chips in a little more?
35:09
Speaker 4: In terms of trade, I still think there are those
35:11
Speaker 4: like opportunities out there, but they don't get the benefit
35:16
Speaker 4: of the doubt at this point.
35:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would I would just add to all
35:20
Speaker 2: of that, there's a big difference between understanding how and
35:24
Speaker 2: why the Cubs operate as they do and defending how
35:28
Speaker 2: right right right right.
35:28
Speaker 1: Yeah.
35:29
Speaker 2: I think we all run into that is that we,
35:31
Speaker 2: like you said, so, if we have to operate in
35:33
Speaker 2: a certain world because we want to do our jobs
35:35
Speaker 2: and sort of break things down that operate in reality.
35:39
Speaker 2: And that does come off sometimes as though we're saying, well,
35:42
Speaker 2: they don't need this guy's overpaid in this, but it's
35:45
Speaker 2: it's because we too have to operate within the structure
35:49
Speaker 2: that has been afforded to us, not unlike baseball operations.
35:53
Speaker 2: And so I think sometimes it's fair for us, I think,
36:00
Speaker 2: to acknowledge the criticism but then to move on quickly
36:04
Speaker 2: from it because you know, there's nothing any of us.
36:07
Speaker 2: And I guess I advise this to fans too, is
36:11
Speaker 2: you're not going to change it. There's nothing that you're
36:13
Speaker 2: gonna be able to do about it. You can stomp
36:14
Speaker 2: your feet, you can vote with your wallet if you
36:18
Speaker 2: think that'll do anything. It won't, and ultimately you got
36:23
Speaker 2: to just decide if you can enjoy this version, and
36:26
Speaker 2: so that's that's where I usually live.
36:29
Speaker 4: I think one more note on that. I think I've
36:32
Speaker 4: been thinking about this all weekend. The other the other
36:35
Speaker 4: piece of this that can't be totally ignored is just
36:40
Speaker 4: how they operated during twenty I'll come out of twenty
36:44
Speaker 4: twenty the pandemic season like that is something they're still
36:47
Speaker 4: paying cool right of trading you darsh and maybe oh
36:52
Speaker 4: in case he helps us year, maybe they move him
36:54
Speaker 4: in a deal, you know, before spring training. Theoretically I'm saying,
36:59
Speaker 4: maybe that helps Major LEA team. They've got nothing to
37:02
Speaker 4: have helped their major league team from the U Darvis
37:04
Speaker 4: trade and that was what like five years ago, and
37:07
Speaker 4: then non tendering College Schubert. We don't have to relitigate
37:10
Speaker 4: that one, but that was clearly a decision based totally
37:13
Speaker 4: on cuts to baseball operations and the lingering uncertainty like
37:20
Speaker 4: when they had to make those decisions. So like that,
37:23
Speaker 4: I think is the one like.
37:25
Speaker 1: That one hurt.
37:26
Speaker 4: I mean that really stuck and you know, hurt their
37:30
Speaker 4: reputation and their credibility just in that one area. But
37:34
Speaker 4: I think now you can look forward of like they
37:37
Speaker 4: do have as Jed would say clean books, financial flexibility,
37:43
Speaker 4: they've got great farms, a good farm system to trade
37:46
Speaker 4: from a lot of guys, unreasonable contrasts. All of those
37:51
Speaker 4: things are true, and that's why I think CUPS convention
37:54
Speaker 4: is usually pretty interesting because there are all these different viewpoints,
37:57
Speaker 4: kind of very much out in the open of people complaining, defending,
38:03
Speaker 4: looking forward to spring training.
38:06
Speaker 1: All right, Brett, thanks so much for joining us, man,
38:08
Speaker 1: it was nice to get the band back together. This
38:10
Speaker 1: was fun. Well, we'll have to try and make it
38:12
Speaker 1: a little bit more regular. This I think we're I
38:14
Speaker 1: think I touched in. This is episode eighty nine, and
38:17
Speaker 1: this is only the first time you've joined us, so
38:19
Speaker 1: we can't be once every eighty nine episodes. We'll have
38:22
Speaker 1: to try and up that during the season and get
38:25
Speaker 1: you on Thanks again, man. This is Northside Territory File
38:29
Speaker 1: Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe
38:32
Speaker 1: to the podcast, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Check out
38:35
Speaker 1: Brett's work over at Bleacher Nation. Make sure you read
38:38
Speaker 1: Patrick and my work at the Athletic. There's gonna be
38:41
Speaker 1: some more moves here, so we'll be on top of
38:43
Speaker 1: that stuff and make sure you guys are well aware
38:46
Speaker 1: of what's going on with the Cubs. Thanks so much
38:48
Speaker 1: for listening. Everyone vanguage
39:14
Speaker 4: On the le