Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Rerun: In Memory of Mike Loftus (Slap Shot)

Transcript

Rerun: In Memory of Mike Loftus (Slap Shot) · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, z Eff and Beast start
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, this is Jamie. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Just a quick liner note before this week's reairing of
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: an episode we recorded and released last year around my
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: birthday about the feminist masterpiece slap Shot. The guest is
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: my dad, Mike Loftus, and we're re releasing it this
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: week because my dad passed away this week.
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: I really hope you enjoyed this episode. It was really
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: really special to me that we got to record it
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: last year, you know, unbeknownst to you the listener at
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: the time. I mean, my dad was battling with lung
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: cancer for three years before he passed. And the reason
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: that we were together last summer was because he was
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: going through chemo and you know, a very stressful time
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: and I was hoping to both manufacture a distraction for
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: us and selfishly, I just wanted to share what an
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: awesome fun person my dad is, and especially with one
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: of the topics that he's most passionate about, which is hockey.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: You'll hear him talk about it in the episode. He
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: was a local hockey reporter on the Bruins beat for
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: the better part of forty years. I'm so proud of
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: him and all of this. I mean, everything that I've
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: done is because he's made me believe I can do it.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: And whatever you know, you can none of your business.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: All right, I'm gonna save that for the wake. The
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: point is, I'm really sad and I am so grateful.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Although I don't think I can really listen to it
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: right now. You should to have this kind of document
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: of who my dad was and what he's like, and
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: most importantly, kind of how willing he was to do
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: one of Jamie's little projects. Just an endlessly supportive person
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: that he came on our Radical FuMB in his podcast
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: to talk about a hockey movie that we did not
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: like very much, but just really special. I'll link in
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: the description to a little more about my dad and
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: if you're interested, weird as his family accepting donations to
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: the American Red Cross because my dad was weirdly obsessed
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: with donating blood and all the nurses were like Michael
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: has great veins and you're like, okay, whatever, anyways, if
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: you're interested in donating to the Red Cross, that was
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: something he was very passionate about. And yeah, recording this
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: in a hotel room. And I also just quickly wanted
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: to shout out my amazing common law spouse and dear
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: friend and coworker, Caitlyn Tourante, who has been just so
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: endlessly supportive and patient with me and with my family
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: as we've been navigating this pretty quietly for the last
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: to three years. There's been so many different times where
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: I've had to record from a weird place. Fun fact,
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: the Birdcage episode, for me, I was in a hospital
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: bathroom the whole time. But Caitlin has just been unbelievably
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: patient and supportive and I just love them so much.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: And I know you do too because you're listening to
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: this show. But special shout out to Caitlin for just
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: being themselves and always being a place of respite and patience.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I love this show and so did my family.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: So yeah, rest in power. Michael Patrick LOFTUS nineteen fifty
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: nine two twenty twenty four. Not long enough, but we
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: have this episode. We have an hour with him, So
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: enjoy it.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast.
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: Happy Birthday, Jamie.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Boom, slam, punch, slap, inside shot, divorce. Oh,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: so many themes.
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: Homophobia, so many themes.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Pittsburgh.
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: M hmm.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I was really excited that this movie took place. I
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: was like, I was like, where is Kaitlyn going to
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: connect with this movie? There's got to be somewhere. I
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: was like, Pennsylvania.
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: It's the Pennsylvania connection.
• 4:49
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So, okay, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Jamie Laftus.
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: My name is Kaitlin Dernte, and this is our show
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: where we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point to
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: initiate much larger, much grander conversations.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: It's true, and the Bechdel Test, of course, is a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: media metric created by Alice and Bechdel as a joke
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: as a goof back in the eighties in her comic
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Likes to Watch Out For. It started as just a
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: one off joke, but has since become a way to
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: talk about how and if women are represented in movies
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: and people of marginalized genders in general. A lot of
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: versions of the test. The version of the test that
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: we observe to start our conversation is the test requires
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that there be two characters with names of a marginalized
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: gender talking about something other than men for two lines
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: of dialogue.
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: Or more or more preferably more often. But it doesn't
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: happen that way usually.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But there's so much to talk about it. It's not
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the be all and endol movie, and today it's exciting.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: It comes but twice a year a birthday episode where
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Kitlin and I really get to go absolutely hogwild on
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: on our on our choice of movie, on our choice
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: of guest. It's a fun time. And this has been
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: an episode that has been It's not an episode that's
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: ever been. It's been requested by one person and it's
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: no coincidence of that person's guest.
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but I.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Would say it's been Well, Dad, what do you how
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: long have you been asking me about this? It's been
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: a couple of years.
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: Well, how long have you had the show?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Seven years? Now?
• 6:39
  Speaker 6: It hasn't been seven years.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I would say at least four years.
• 6:42
  Speaker 6: Well we've talked about this, I mean in your other
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: podcast life when you did the Kathy podcast, you know,
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: it was it was a thought that I had that,
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: you know, there was this comic. It wasn't for everybody,
• 6:56
  Speaker 6: but the more I thought about it, it was kind
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: of it was unique first time. You know, it was
• 7:01
  Speaker 6: like there really weren't in the comic strips. You know,
• 7:05
  Speaker 6: women were moms or girlfriends, maybe teachers, but there was
• 7:09
  Speaker 6: never like a single business woman. So I tossed that
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: to you, and I guess in the case of slap Shot,
• 7:16
  Speaker 6: you know, I sort of was thinking of a Kathy
• 7:18
  Speaker 6: thing too, because you know, there are interesting to me,
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: you know, representations of women and their stories, and that's
• 7:28
  Speaker 6: that's what your cast is all about, you and Caitlyn.
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: So I thought, well, you know, throw it out there
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: and see what they think.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: And here we are, and sure enough, we're doing it.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: We're covering a slap shot and the guest you just
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: heard allan Kitlyn usually introduced the guests, but they have
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: generously offered me the opportunity.
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: It's your time to shine.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Jamie, our guest today is a former hockey writer current
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: hockey fan. Has been covering hockey since the eighties, been
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: playing hockey since the seventies when this movie comes out.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: He's also a proud father to two wonderful children, lifelong
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Brocton residents. A Brockton legend. It's Mike loftis welcome. Welcome
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: to the cast.
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: Dad, welcome, Jamie. Good to see you, and good to
• 8:20
  Speaker 6: see you too, Caitlyn.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listeners. I'm currently in Brockton at my
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: dad's house and he's he's downstairs with my equipment. I'm
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: upstairs with my phone. We've had a very professional setup.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: It's like we're not even. But he did drive me
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: to Dunkin Donuts right before the episode so that I'll
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: know on.
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: You got to have your birthday dunks.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, it's yeah, it's I'm feeling the birthday love.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling thrilled about the birthday. So yeah, my memory
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: of I don't remember when you first brought this movie
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: up to me for the Bechdel Cast, but you every
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: time you're like, I think you would be like if
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I happen to be talking about work, you'd be like,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: you know, Slapshot is written by a woman that was
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: just kind of the pitch and it stuck with.
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: Me, and you pitched it to me Jamie multiple times
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: as well, and it was yeah later.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Which, to be fair, it's not a personal attack. That's
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: how most of our episodes end up happening. We think
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: it over for a good two years, and then eventually
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: we cover it. I feel like that has become kind
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: of our habit.
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: It's true.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Anyways, Yeah, we're covering slap shot. It is a nineteen
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: seventy seven film is directed by George roy Hill. It
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: is written by Nancy Dawd. It stars Paul Newman amongst
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Caitlyn Is. Oh, I learned this. I learned this this
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: wearing dad. Caitlyn's horny for Paul Newman and he's very handsome.
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. It's kind of the only thing I'm
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: going to be able to contribute this episode. I am
• 10:02
  Speaker 5: my thirst for Paul Newman.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, unbelievable. Focused on men that night, having discourse.
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: I'm just gonna be like Paul Newman. Oh woo ga.
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: I don't like his character, but I very much enjoy
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: looking at his face.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess let's let's get into it. I guess, dad. Uh, Well, actually,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: let's get ours out of the way, kill it. What's
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: your history with the movie slap Shot.
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: I only know about this movie because of the various
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: times Jamie, you've said, my dad wants to come on
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: the podcast and cover slap Shot, And okay, that is
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: the reason I know this movie exists, Jamie, what's yours?
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I know this movie exists because my dad has told
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: me about it. But I also have we've had Hansen
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: brother glasses at the house for I remember where we
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: have like I think they're on the table next to you, Dad,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: but they're like the Hanson brother like glasses. It is like,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: that's the only part of this movie that I really
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: knew about. I had not watched it until the other
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: day to prepare for this episode, because you know, I
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: criminally have never been very into hockey, and so it
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: was not a movie that really appealed to me. But
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I knew the Hanson brothers because they are so ingratiated
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: into hockey iconography that we have like glasses that were
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: given out of a game with the tape in the
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: middle and the hands, and brothers specifically are very iconic
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: in hockey culture. I think this movie is too, but
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: like more, I think the Hanson brothers are kind of
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: the most enduring would Is that right?
• 11:41
  Speaker 6: Would you say absolutely? I mean it's you know, you
• 11:45
  Speaker 6: brought us some other hockey movies last night. There aren't
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: a lot of them. Yeah, you know, there are a
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: lot of baseball and football and basketball movies. Hockey's I
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: think hockey fans of a certain age say it's it's
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: slap shot. And then you know, maybe another generation would
• 12:00
  Speaker 6: be the Mighty Ducks. And you know.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I think we would say more so than Mighty Ducks,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: and then current current generation. I don't know if they
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: have a hockey movie.
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: I could tell you of a hockey movie.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: But is it good?
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: It's goon?
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: Yes, Oh, I have heard of this one, Sean William Scott.
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: Isn't it? If I'm not mistaken?
• 12:20
  Speaker 6: I don't know actors that well, but I think it is.
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: I actually I know the gentleman that that film was
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: based on. Okay, it's a true story about a guy
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: who and and the and the movie does not really
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: tell the story of the actual person. But classic that
• 12:39
  Speaker 6: was okay. He knew, he knew that was going to happen,
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: and he was he was alright with it.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I hope they paid him well for the book.
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: Rights that might have happened.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: But yeah, a slapshot has not been a huge part
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: of my life. But hockey certainly has grew up around
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: hockey culture, hockey ideas, hockey labor. Yeah, I have I like.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I like hockey, I think as much as someone who
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: doesn't follow it can.
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: I mean, missus Zamboni, I.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Have a Zamboni tattoo, and I didn't notice until the
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: end of the first movie the movie slap Shot Zero.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Zamboni's Zamboni visibility at an all time low. My favorite
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: ice sports movie, as you know, is Ititania. I love Itania.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Not a single Zamboni and that one either, What the hell?
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: I know, it's pretty and you know it's interesting to
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: me that, you know, when I sat down to watch
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: it again the other night, like and watch it in
• 13:36
  Speaker 6: a different way, I didn't realize it was it's a
• 13:40
  Speaker 6: two hour movie, yes it.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Sure, it feels pretty long.
• 13:43
  Speaker 6: So so you know, there was plenty of time in
• 13:47
  Speaker 6: there for you know, Zamboni, tomfoolery.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: And yet and yueling Zamboni's.
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: Well even just a you know, I mean, I don't
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: know if we I don't know if this is the
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: part where we even bring in little things about the
• 14:00
  Speaker 6: the film, but you know, little things, little things that
• 14:03
  Speaker 6: the you know, the team does to really really continue
• 14:07
  Speaker 6: to whip people in a frenzy, right, like you know,
• 14:09
  Speaker 6: parking an ambulance outside of a game. You know before
• 14:12
  Speaker 6: it starts, you couldn't have had somebody dress up crazy
• 14:16
  Speaker 6: and just like you know drive the zamboni.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Naked person driving a zamboni. Well, it's a perfect it's
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: a perfect rhyme comedy idea. Okay, never mind.
• 14:25
  Speaker 6: But you know, an oversight. I agree, Jane good point.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt strongly about that. I feel like Zamboni's
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: are rarely included, to the point where I wonder if
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: the company simply objects to it, because it just seems
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: like such an easy win. But they're a very kind
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: of flatigious Italian family, the Zamboni family, so I've heard
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: when I've tried to contact them. Sure, So I like hockey.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I had never seen Slapshot all the way through, and
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I watched it twice to repair, once with my dad,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: once without and I have I mean, it's so weird
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: because I feel like the the reason that I didn't
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: like this movie as much as I was hoping to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: it just has mostly to do with the fact that
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I historically don't love like super raunchy comedies, like they
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: just have never really appealed to me. But the more
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: that I learned about the production of this movie, there's
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to talk about. Certainly a lot
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: of it doesn't age well. We were getting dinner with
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: my aunt's last night and my Annie Kate, my dad's sister,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: we've all been you know, hockey pilled over the years,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, yeah, I've seen Slapshot. It's kind
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: of hard to watch now because it's long and a
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: lot of it ages really badly. And I was like,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: all right, so we're all in the same page here.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: But it is interesting. We don't cover a lot of
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: movies from the seventies, and I think for a movie
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: that a lot of it ages not well. There were
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: more women in the story than I was expecting. I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: think more women than your average sports movie in general,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I would agree, So lots to talk about. Yeah, Dad,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: what's your history with the movie Slapshot? Do you remember
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: when you first saw it?
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: Well, that it actually came out the year I graduated
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: high school nice nineteen seventy seven, which is when I
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: was wrapping up my my super average career as a player.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, give us the rundown. What position did you play? Generally?
• 16:20
  Speaker 6: I was a defense defenseman. One goal career statistics one goal,
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: one assist, multiple penalty minutes. Knee injuries, yes, one knee surgery,
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: one broken nose. Went from there to I coached youth
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: hockey with a buddy of mine for a couple of years.
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: That was fun.
• 16:40
  Speaker 5: Nice.
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: When I was in college, I started officiating games as
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: a way to make a few bucks. And then that
• 16:48
  Speaker 6: all dried up and I went into the the you know,
• 16:51
  Speaker 6: there was no future in any of that for me,
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: but I still just kind of couldn't quit the game,
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: and newspapers loved the sports section sports guy, so in
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: the in the there I am and like the you know,
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: kind of the teeth of the late seventies or when
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: there's a lot of people going into journalism because of
• 17:10
  Speaker 6: like all the president's men, and you know, everybody wants
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: to be a journalist.
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: Interesting movies are so influential is that it didn't really.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Feel like there is an uptick after all the presidents.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: And that makes sense to.
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: Me, Oh yeah, definitely, because a person like me who
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: would show up and say, yeah, I want to be
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: a sports writer. Was like, what that doesn't count? What's
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: wrong with you? Yeah? So that that's how That's kind
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: of where it comes from. And the interesting little side
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: story is the the reason that I even played in
• 17:39
  Speaker 6: the first place was that when she was young, before
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: she got married, my mom was a huge hockey fan.
• 17:44
  Speaker 6: She loved the Bruins. I think she really liked the
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: fights a lot. But you know, she got married, she
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: had three kids in four years, and at around that time,
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: the Bruins in Boston, who had been terrible for a while,
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: all of a sudden they got very good. They had
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: a great team and a lot of personality, a lot
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: of fun, and she couldn't contain herself. She just she
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: signed me up, even though I told her I didn't
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: want to play so and you know, by the end
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: of my first season playing it was kind of all
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: I wanted to do.
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: Nice.
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: So there's my does that do now? I don't think
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: my mom watched Slapshot with me, but but you know,
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: myself obviously and my my hockey friends. I mean, you know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: certain aspects of that movie just from having played on
• 18:30
  Speaker 6: a team and everything like that, just kind of you know,
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: cracked us up.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: And then just just for listener context, how long did
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: you work in sports journalism covering.
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: Hockey, specifically covering hockey. I would say I started like
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: in nineteen eighty nine. Halfway through that season, I became
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: like the full time you know, Bruins beat writer at
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: my paper. And I held that job through the twenty
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: nineteen twenty season, the last the bubble season, the pandemic season,
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: So it was a good It was like thirty something
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: years and I and also, you know, as my newspaper changed,
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: the industry changed, and I had to you know, I
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: always said the Bruins, but I found lots and lots
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: of other hockey stories to do. You know here in
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: New England and the Boston area is so lots of
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: college stories, lots of stories about minor league players, you know,
• 19:30
  Speaker 6: draft picks we had, you know, coaches. And one of
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: the more interesting things was over my time was the
• 19:39
  Speaker 6: growth of like the women's hockey game, which I'm not
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: even sure it really existed when I started.
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: You know, I just realized I know nothing about it,
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: nor did I even realize there was a women's hockey league.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: It's cool. I mean that that you know, obviously you
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: know a million times worry about it than me. But
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: when when I went to Toronto a couple of months
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: ago to do a show with your rock about I
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: went to the Hockey Hall of Fame, and it's like
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: this big, cool, sprawling museum that has exhibits on women's
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: hockey and on non white hockey leagues, and just like
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: all all of this cool. I don't know, you know,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: it is definitely a predominantly white male sport, as our
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: most North American sports, but women's women's hockey leagues are
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: really really interesting, and I feel like there is I'm
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: kind of surprised that there isn't a movie about maybe.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, listeners feel free to let us know if
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: there is one and we just don't know about it.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: But I don't think I've ever seen like movie or
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: show explicitly about women's hockey, which feels weird. I feel
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: like there's movies about at least one movie about women's
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: sports in most major sports.
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, but it was, I mean, it's it's
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: around here, and I guess, you know, in other places
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: where hockey is a thing, you know, the youth and
• 21:00
  Speaker 6: high school and college level. You know, women's hockey is
• 21:03
  Speaker 6: a thing. You know, almost every almost everybody has a
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: team now in college. And the interesting thing to me
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: was it has struggled to really get off the ground
• 21:12
  Speaker 6: and stay established. But I will say, for like the
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: last five or six years has been a women's professional
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: hockey league, you know where women you know, it's professional,
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: they got paid to play. As the twenty nineteen twenty
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: twenty season was winding down before everything shut down because
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: of COVID, I always I think about, how interesting is
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: that the last athlete that I interviewed face to face
• 21:41
  Speaker 6: one on one was a women's professional hockey player. Cool,
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: which I thought was you know, I didn't know it
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: was going to be the last one. I thought I
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: would be going to work the next day.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: But you would have talked to a man.
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: No, I was there specifically to do this.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, you're killing it. Everything's so great. No, No,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: that's that's really I am obviously a fan of my dad,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: but I think it's I think I do think it's
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: cool that you've covered so many local stories that no
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: one that that are not ordinarily covered, especially with I mean,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: like I mean, Caitlin, what you just said is kind
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: of proof of that of just like women's like women's
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: hockey is absolutely a thing, but it's not covered in
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: any sort of broad way.
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: Right, Like I've never seen a women's talkie game on TV.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: Not that I'm like actively seeking out sports games.
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: You you would more likely find it during like the Olympics.
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: It's a it's a yeah, And an issue is that
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: the United States is great at it, Canada is great
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: at it, but there's you know, they need more international competition.
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: It is you know, it's not like there's generations of Swedish, Norwegian,
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: you know, European players.
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: I was going to say, like Sweden, what are you doing? Hello?
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I know, right, But I mean it'll come.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: It will when I write my awesome women's hockey movie.
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: So let's take a quick break and then we will
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: come back for the recap.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: First periods over, you could say.
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: And we're back, and now it's the second period. How
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: many are there periods? Okay?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Three? So this kind of works perfect.
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: Wow. Yeah, So the thing that I thought was halftime,
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: it's probably not actually halftime. There's like two breaks, there's
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: the middle.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's not really any like manner of halftime show
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: for hockey, there's like, uh, well, to guess my zanoni's.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: The Zamboni's are kind of how you know, like, yeah,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: they come out twice and they resurface the ice because
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that's their kind of one purpose. And and sometimes, uh,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: you know, kids and also local celebs will come out
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: on the zamboni and sometimes it's me at the Staples
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Center in January twenty twenty, it was me one time.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I think we should. I think we should definitely post
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: a picture of it to our Instagram.
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: Actually absolutely, I think it's.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Pretty important too. But there's well, there's also I feel
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: like there's because there's no cheerleading element to hockey because
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it's on ice. But they have like what do they
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: call like it's a group of it's now a gender
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: inclusive group, but it's like a they kind of assist
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the zamboni's. It's not really as festive as cheerleading or dancing.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: It's really just like excited sweeping.
• 24:46
  Speaker 6: And there are there are some teams that will employ
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: people to you know, stand in the stairways and everything
• 24:52
  Speaker 6: and cheer.
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: Okay, I know that job.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: It seems like a fun job. I wonder if I
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: feel like traditionally those jobs are really low paid or
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: what the deal is in hockey. But I was like,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: you know, I would sweep, I would sweep in shorts.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: Let's do it.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Anyways, let's what happens in the movie slap Shot. Then
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: let us I.
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: Would be delighted to tell you. Okay, we meet a
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: minor league, right, minor league hockey team called the Chiefs
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: from the fictional town of Charlestown, Pennsylvania, not to be
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: confused with Charlestown, Massachusetts, which is where the movie The
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: Town famously takes place.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Well that is kind of the famous town. Wow.
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: Okay, so the most seasoned player and also the coach.
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: I did not know that the coach of a hockey
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: team was also a player. Fascinating to me.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Can that happen in minor leagues? Is that a thing?
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah? It has been. Player coaches. The lower you go,
• 25:53
  Speaker 6: you never know what you're going to see.
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: So the coach slash a player is Reggie Dunlop played
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: by Paul Newman Albahabbah. And then we meet some other
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: players like Ned Brayden. There's a goalie named Denny who
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: is French, and everyone makes fun of him for English
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: not being his first language.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I really like his opening monologue that ends like with
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: him just poetically describing the penalty bucks and then you
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: get free. I was like, whoa, you feel shame and
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: then you get free and.
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: You're like, whoa, Denny. We also meet Joe McGrath, who
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: is the team's manager because he's not the coach, so
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: he's the manager.
• 26:44
  Speaker 6: Is that right, Mike, Yeah, general managers what you'd call.
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: Okay, got it. He has the team do fashion shows
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: to promote the games because people aren't coming out as
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: much to the games anymore because the Chiefs kind of
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: suck and they've been losing a lot. Also, a local
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: mill is going to be closing soon in the town
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: and it's going to potentially mean that Charlestown will sort
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: of dry up and then the team might have to fold,
• 27:14
  Speaker 5: So that's looming over everybody. We also meet the Hansen brothers.
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: They have just been signed over to the Chiefs. They're
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: characterized as being a bunch of dipshits who bring their
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: toys with them even though they're adults.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: They're yeah, they're young adults. I don't know. It's like,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: it didn't shock me. That like when they're like eighteen,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: twenty and twenty.
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: One something like that, and then you're.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Just like, yeah, I guess they would bring.
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: Their race cars.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I was subout to say they're not hurting anybody, but
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: that's actually kind of their whole banger.
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: But they do kind of they are super violent on
• 27:53
  Speaker 5: the ice, and then they would later go on to
• 27:56
  Speaker 5: form a boy band and sing bop.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Know, it's so confusing, Like, I God, that is that's
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: a good generation gap. It's like, who are the hands
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and brothers to you? Right, because I'm going to umbob
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: every time. I didn't know that boomers had their own
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: handsome brothers.
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: It's true. Okay. So we also meet a few of
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: the players' wives. They're his wives, such as Bryden's wife Lily.
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: She hates this town. She seems to just kind of
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: generally hate her life and possibly her husband. We also
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: meet Francine, who is Reggie's ex wife who he is
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: trying to win back to know of it.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: My hero, my favorite character, Francine.
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: Francine Rocks. So the team they wonder who owns the
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: team because they don't know, and Reggie is like, I
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: don't know, it's just a corporation and then they're general man.
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: That guy Joe reveals that this is the Chief's last season,
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: and the players are worried that they won't be signed
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: to another team. Some of them feel like they're getting
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: too old to like be a valuable asset to another team.
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: Reggie thinks that they might get sold and get transferred
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: to a new city. He's thinking somewhere in Florida.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Reggie is such a mess. It is no secret to
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: anyone on this call. And I don't care for the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: character of Reggie. Not a fan of his. I think
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: it's so like we'll talk about him more obviously later
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: in the episode, but I really like, especially the second
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: time when I was watching it, it was because he's
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: such a piece of shit to everyone, and it's it's
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: really interesting to me that like his only redeeming moments
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: happen privately, Like he's never publicly nice to anybody. Privately,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: he will say nice things about people hid their back,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: never to their face, and it just like it made me,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it was it was an interesting character.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's tricky because it's like I don't think
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: the movie is fully I don't know. I mean I
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I think he's like he's a piece of shit and
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: also kind of tragic to me in a way, because
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: he just seems like someone who needs a friend so badly,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: but like can't stop getting in his own way enough
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: to ever like have a friend. Like, there's so many
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: characters in this movie that he almost forges a friendship
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: with but then turns on them or is a piece
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: of shit to them, or like feels insecure for a
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: second and says something cruel to them, and you're just like,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: this person is so like it's it's a mess, he's
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: an asshole, but it's also like it's sad, Like it's
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: like this guy just needs to get out of his
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: own way and make a make a friend, but he
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: but he can't do it, and it's it's very frustrating
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: to watch him abotage himself over and over truly.
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, So he's insecure about the future of the team
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: and he goes to this sports writer Dickie Dune aka
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: basically Mike loftis.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Dad, did you feel represented? Dicky done?
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: I do like that he's often well just trying to
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: catch the spirit of the thing, you know.
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: He says this a lot.
• 31:24
  Speaker 6: Yes, yes, I mean, you know whatever Reggie Dunlop plays him.
• 31:29
  Speaker 6: You know, obviously, you know kind of plants this story
• 31:32
  Speaker 6: about here we're getting sold when you know that never
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: was going to happen, right, So Dickie's Dickie's failure to
• 31:40
  Speaker 6: like maybe follow up on that.
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: He's not doing very good journalism, yes, because he's doing
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: no research.
• 31:47
  Speaker 6: But you know he's probably selling some papers, and you know,
• 31:52
  Speaker 6: he just it's funny how he just sort of fell
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: right into right right into Reggi's reggis trapped there.
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: Well, he is charming, he is like charismatics, so people are.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Like, he is hot, so you should probably.
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: Be so hot. So everyone listens to him.
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: And that's a great line too where there. You know, Paul,
• 32:12
  Speaker 6: you know reggis reading the story. Hey, Dickie Dunn wrote it.
• 32:15
  Speaker 6: You know it's true, right.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Also, Uh, it's it's stereotypes. Uh, sports writers as bad parents.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: His daughter run out and her brother was bullying her,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and he's like, all right, resolve it among yourselves. Talking
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: to Paul Newman.
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: I'm doing business right now, I'm mister business.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Bad representation.
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: I think there might have been a drink or two
• 32:39
  Speaker 6: there too.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, he said, he said, go away, kids,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: and then he starts drinking again. There's a lot of
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: drinking in this movie.
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: So much drinking.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Dad, you'll have to explain the seventies.
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: So Dickie Dunn is like, that's ridiculous. No one's gonna
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: buy a fifth place team, and Reggie is like, well
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: that's about to change. Meanwhile, Reggie is having an affair
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: with an opponent's wife, his wife, Suzanne, and she tells
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: Reggie that she's been sleeping with other women recently, which
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: Reggie uses when he plays his opponent the following week.
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: This guy named Hanrahan Han Rahn. That will we'll talk
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: about that.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: That'll be a whole thing, because that's it's like, that's
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: something that this movie is so constantly infuriating, mostly because
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: of regg Yeah, where you're like, oh wow, I would
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: guess that that wouldn't be something that would be like
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: commonly discussed in a popular movie in the seventies, and
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: then in the next scene you're like, well, what was
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: the point, Like, if you're just going to.
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: Do that, what was the point exactly? Yeah, So Hanrahan
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: is the goalie for the other team, and Reggie is
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: taunting him and saying, you know your wife is a lesbian.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: But he's using a lot of slurs and it makes
• 34:08
  Speaker 5: hanrah Han so mad and distracted that he gets scored
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: on a bunch and the Chiefs win, also partly because
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: they get very violent and start beating the shit out
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: of the other.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Team, which is sort of like becoming their new Emma
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: ohing card.
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yes. Meanwhile, we have a scene with Lily.
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: She's still having a really hard time. It seems like
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: Brandon is cheating on her, and then Reggie tries to
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: comfort her, but in a very sleazy way where he's like,
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: come over, I'll give you a foot rub.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: He's so frustrating. I'm just like, she h, that's whatever
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I mean. I guess the choice is consistent with Reggie's character,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: but I'm just like, ah, these two characters, they both
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: need a friend. Why can't they be friends to each other?
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: But it's because Reggie can't.
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: He's a creep.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he can't not be a creep.
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: But he's not even the most creepy guy on the team,
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: because that's a guy named.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Morris's Oh he's a disaster. Yeah.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: Anyway, so the team sees this story in the paper
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: that Dicky Dunn had printed about how the Chiefs are
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: going to get bought and transferred to Florida, which they're
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: very excited about. And so, with the team morale higher
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: than ever, the Chiefs start winning a bunch, although again
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: they're playing way rougher than normal. There's lots of punching
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: and bloody faces and stuff. Although Brayden is opposed to
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: playing dirty, he thinks it's cheap and not the right
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: way to win, which.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: He'll sort of like built into He's like, I went
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: to college. I'm not none of this nonsense. I went
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: to college.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm still a piece of shit who's cheating on
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: my wife, But I have morals.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: I went to Colin.
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: But Reggie is very pro all of this hockey violence,
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: and he starts putting the Hansen brothers in the game,
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: whose entire strategy is just to punch the ship out
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: of their opponents.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I kind of love the hands, Like, it's kind of
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: hard not to love the Hansen brothers.
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: They're so goofy. They're extremely goofy.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Wait, my dad's got some some a real a real
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: sleigh of a of a context corner for them. But oh, okay,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: I love I love the hands and brothers. They're fun.
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: I yeah, they're awesome anyway, So, uh, the team continues
• 36:44
  Speaker 5: to speculate who the owner is. Meanwhile, this thing is
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: happening where Reggie just like keeps lying about the team
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: getting bought and sold to keep the morale up. And
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: also maybe he's just like deluding himself because he knows
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: that he's about to reach a point where he's probably
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: gonna have to retire and he's so insecure and he
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: can't deal with it.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: It's so I read this incredible essay about how Reggie
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: is a metaphor for the men of Pittsburgh in the seventies. Wow,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: and I'm just like, I'm excited to talk about it later.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, So then Reggie sees Francene with another guy
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: and he's kind of like following her around and calling
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: different places that he knows that she frequents to try
• 37:38
  Speaker 5: to like see who she's been there with. Very stalker behavior.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah he's doing I mean he does the same thing
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to Lily. He like jumps in her car at one point,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: like he's just he has no issue really inserting me around.
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and he bumps into her at some point,
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: and franccene tells Reggie that she's moving to Long Island,
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: which I'm like, yes, please get away from him. Then
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: there's an upcoming game against Syracuse, so Reggie goes on
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: the radio for an interview and he says that he's
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: putting a bounty on I don't know if it's that
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: team's coach or just kind of like one of their
• 38:20
  Speaker 5: star players, this guy Tim McCracken. And he's like, I'm
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: paying one hundred dollars of my own money for someone
• 38:27
  Speaker 5: to kill him.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: It's such a love bounty. It's kind of fun, right.
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: And then there's this player who has given himself the
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: nickname Killer, and he's like, I'll do it. I'll kill
• 38:41
  Speaker 5: Tim McCracken. Anyway, Lily shows up at Reggie's place with
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: her huge Saint Bernard dog. She seems to have left
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: Bryden and she has a new lease online.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: He doesn't know it yet.
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: He doesn't know it yet, let's see. Then Reggie takes
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: Lily to Francine's hair salon and she gets a bit
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: of a makeover.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: I have some I have complicated thoughts about that scene
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: because I feel like that scene's heart is in the
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: right place, but it's kind of broadly done, but I'm
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: excited to talk about it.
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then Reggie finally figures out who the
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: owner of the Chiefs is and he goes to see him,
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: just kidding. It's a woman seemed wit Anita McCambridge, and
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: he wants to know how the sale of the team
• 39:35
  Speaker 5: is going, but she tells him that she plans to
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: fold the team and take a tax loss rather than
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: sell it because she won't make enough of a profit
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: if she sells the team.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: It's like every single decision, like every streamer is making
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: right now. They're like, no, actually, we're deleting your entire
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: life and career because it suits me today. Fuck you.
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: Yikes. And so this news infuriates Reggie and he brutally
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: insults her son and then storms out.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Classic Reggie, He's like, well, I'm feeling a little insecure
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: and angry. Let me insult someone who's not here in
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: the cruelest way I can possibly think of. Truly, it's
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: kind of his whole thing.
• 40:19
  Speaker 5: Then Reggie comes clean to his team. He admits that
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: there's no deal for them to be bought and moved
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: to Florida. That Ned was right all along. They shouldn't
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: be resorting to all of this violence as a way
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: to win games. And this is Reggie's last game and
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: he's going to play it straight and try to win
• 40:41
  Speaker 5: that championship honestly and legitimately. But this is when they're
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: playing Syracuse and that team is ready for a bloodbath.
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: So the game starts and the Syracuse team are fighting,
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: but the Chiefs aren't fighting back, and they're losing. And
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: then it's not halftime, it's either after the first or
• 41:03
  Speaker 5: second period. But they're like in the locker room and
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: their general manager Joe is like, hey, there's a bunch
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: of NHL scouts in the crowd, so you have to
• 41:16
  Speaker 5: put on a good show for them, and Reggie's like, okay,
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: forget everything I said. We're gonna play dirty, and then
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: we just like cut to everyone punching each other. Francine
• 41:30
  Speaker 5: and Lily show up to the game, and Braiden sees
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: his wife and he's.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Like, wow, this part is where this is where like
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: the whole Lily story falls apart from me, where I'm
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: like what happened here? So confused about what happens with
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Lily's character.
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know sure, and I also don't know
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: exactly what prompts this. But Braiden goes out on the
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: ice while every sudden, well everyone's just punching each other
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: and not playing hockey even a little bit, and Brandon
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: starts doing a strip tease, and everyone in the crowd
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: and all the players are like tee wow, and for.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: Some reason this solves all of the problems in his marriage.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: You're just like, it's very cinematic, but you're just like,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, but it's a very movie behavior.
• 42:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and he does the strip tease and it somehow
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: wins the game. I don't know if the other team forfits.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know what happens.
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: I could tell you. Yeah, So, as as Ned is
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: doing his strip tease, one of the players, one of
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: the it might be Tim McCracken, is furious and he's like,
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: you know, during the middle of this bloodbath, he starts
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: to yell at the official like that's disgusting. Make him stop,
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: And the officials like, what do you mean it's disgusting?
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: Look at this, and they end up with an argument
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: and McCracken or the you know, the hits the official.
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: He is no matter how low the miners or whatever,
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: you know, you can't hit an official. And he hit him,
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: and the officials says, that's it. The game's over. You forfeit,
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: you know, got it?
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, nice, okay.
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: It reminds me of an airbud when they're like, there's
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: nothing in the rule book that says a dog can't
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: play basketball. It's like, there's nothing in the rule book
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: that says a player can't come out and strip to
• 43:29
  Speaker 5: win the game.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Right, you can maybe get a penalty for it.
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: Play was stopped at the time, you know, it doesn't.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: It's true, so he's basically just doing it. It's like
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: that that could have been the the ice sweepers, it
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: could have been, could have been anything, and and he
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: happened to do that.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I so the way that this movie it's so bizarre.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: We were talking about it when we were watching it
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: a couple of nights ago, where it's like this movie
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: in the last half of it, like I'd be on
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: board and then it would lose me for ten minutes.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: I'd be back for a couple minutes, and then it
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: would lose me for ten minutes, and then I kind
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of liked the ending and it was like I didn't
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: see I don't like, well whatever, we're at the end, basically, yeah,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: but like it lost me during this whole game, because
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: you're like, why does Ned stripping on ice solve the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: issue of infidelity and them hating it each other? And
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: then it seems like, well whatever, Like I'm I didn't
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: dislike the scene between Lily and Francine, even though it
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: was like whatever channeled into the idea and to a makeover.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: I think you can make the argument that it was
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: like she was getting a makeover to feel better about herself.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: It didn't seem like it was overtly for her husband
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: or for anyone except for herself.
• 44:46
  Speaker 5: Because she had already left him by that point.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed like she was she was doing it
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: to feel more confident about herself. And I don't have
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: an issue with that, but it just seems like it's
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: like implied that something happens between Lily and Francine. Off
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: screw that leads, because I'm like, I don't even know
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: why they show up at that hockey game. It's confusing
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: to me because it seems like Lily or Francine's like
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: getting Lily gassed up to like get out into the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: world and start her life. Like whether that's dating or
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: moving or whatever, it is kind of unclear. But then
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: it's like, the next time we see them, they're at
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: the hockey game. You're like, when did you guys decide
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: to go to the hockey game? Why? It seems like
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: the opposite of what Lily was trying to do.
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: Right, they should have gone out to dinner.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: They should have gone out to a singles bar.
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: Right, and then they could have started a book club together.
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: You know, I don't know anyway, So we cut to
• 45:39
  Speaker 5: a parade. The team I think has disbanded, but the
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: players seems like they're getting contracts to go play on
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: other teams. Reggie is going to go play in Minneapolis.
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: He tries to get Francine to come with him, but
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: she's like pass. But Lily and Branden do get back
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: together in an infuriating moment.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Everyone I've never been so split on different characters endings
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: where it's like I'm thrilled for Francine and I'm completely
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: confused by Lily.
• 46:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but anyway, but everyone's celebrating at the parade, and
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: that's how the movie ends. So let's take another break.
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: Second period periods over the big Is there a big
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: buzzer in hockey to like signify the end of a period?
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: Well, I think it's a siren, you know.
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: Oh okay, so a woga will be right back. We're back,
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: and it's time for the third period.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: And the third period can go on for a while.
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: Mm hmm. There's no time limit.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: If things are tight, you know, sometimes sometimes it just
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: keeps going.
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: Sometimes we go into overtime.
• 46:59
  Speaker 6: Overtime, yeah, on the Bechdel cast.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, oh oh that's exact. Okay, I wonder that's that's
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: when we do the are scoring.
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: That's oh yeah, that's like the penalty shootout kind of thing.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Dad, I before we get into the full analysis,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you feel that the sport of hockey
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: is Like does this feel authentic to because you, I
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: mean like we're reporting like on the road with teams
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: and reporting from locker rooms for decades. Does this movie
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: feel close for the era? Does it feel overblown and
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: movie fied? Like how does it square with your experience
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: in this arena?
• 47:42
  Speaker 6: You know? Hey, you know, it's it's a good question.
• 47:46
  Speaker 6: I mean, I think, you know, when I watched that movie,
• 47:49
  Speaker 6: everything in it from the hockey standpoint is just an exaggeration.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: It's like, you know, yes there is locker room talk,
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: but some of the extent that these guys, you know, no,
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: I don't think I never heard the violence in games.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: Yes, it's a very very physical game, and I would
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: say back in that era that was more of a factor,
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: that was more of a strategy than it is now.
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: And also to the NHL, it's like any major sport,
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: people follow them. There's like the top level and then
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: there are different tiers in hockey, the lower that you go,
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: you know, you're probably not going to make it, you know,
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: you might, you know, move up another level or two.
• 48:36
  Speaker 6: So the crazier things, I guess, you know, would tend
• 48:40
  Speaker 6: to happen, you know, in the lower miners, smaller towns,
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: you know, smaller franchises, things like that. I mean, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: that's you know, that's kind of where the movie came from. Now.
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: Nancy Dowd's brother Ned.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Ncy the writer.
• 48:56
  Speaker 6: Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, So her brother played college hockey
• 49:00
  Speaker 6: in Maine and then he played two years a low
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: minor professional hockey league, and he would he you know,
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: he would tell his sister's stories about the you know,
• 49:10
  Speaker 6: the things that happened, and thus the movie. You know,
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: so a lot of it, there's a lot of things
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: that are based on things that actually did happen. And
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: I think that, you know, for film purposes and everything,
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: you know, it's it's amplified and exaggerated.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: That's something I mean, I guess that's like a place
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: that I would be down to start, is just talking
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit about the behind the scenes process of
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: this movie, because I didn't I know that. I mean,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: the one fact I knew about this movie other than
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: it's where the hands and brother's glasses comes from, is
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: what my dad told me five thousand times, which is
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: that a woman wrote the movie. It was the fact
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: that I knew, but I didn't know I actually really liked.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like it I was like, oh,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I kind of do stuff like that sometimes where Nancy down, Yeah,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: like she heard that her brother was involved in this.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: What was the name of the team that the Chiefs
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: are based.
• 50:02
  Speaker 6: On, The Johnstown Jets, Okay in Pennsylvania.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: So that was a team her brother was on. He called,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: basically with the premise to slap shot that this you
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: know team was not going to be around for much longer,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: and so she followed them around for a month, and
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: she like shadowed them and did basically like Gonzo's style,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: following this minor league team around. And so a lot
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: of what she saw went directly into the movie in
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: the script, which I think you can argue works for
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: and against it because it's like if she's presenting in
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: this the late seventies that authentically a lot of it
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: doesn't age well because it was, you know, almost fifty
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: years ago, but it does seem like that was sort
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: of her goal in writing it and what she was
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: trying to present. And so I went back to the
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: way that this movie was originally covered because it was
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: like a hit, It was a box office success, people
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: liked it, Paul Newman was in it, and it was
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: also like I thought it was interesting that it was
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: drawn attention to when the movie came out that these
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: were like, quote, I'm just trying to think if there's
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: like a contemporary example of this where they were like
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: quote unquote, like respectable filmmakers making this raunchy comedy. Because
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: the director of this movie, George roy Hill, like he
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: directed Butch Cassidy, he'd done all of these like you know,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: really pristine, sensitive, thoughtful prestigie movies, and then later in
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: his career makes this super super raunchy comedy. And then
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: you have Nancy Dowd who is from Framingham, Massachusetts, representing Massachusetts,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: but grew up you know, like a pretty like upper
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: crusty Massachusetts life. She went to Smith College like she
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: was like a no one and this was like her
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: first success success. She went on after this. Two years
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: after this, she won an oscar for a movie called
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Coming Home about Did you see that? Dad?
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: I did? Did you like it? It was? It was
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: a little challenging to believe. It's very serious. It was
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: like a it was kind of like a Vietnam War movie, right,
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: and it's you know John Voyd.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: So well it works against it. Yeah, it's no national treasure,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: but no, I.
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: Mean it's like speaking of but yeah, because John Boyd.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Is truly evil. Yeah, but but it felt like these
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: prestigee stars, serious writers and directors making this really raunchy,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: goofy comedy. But it was also like my dad. The
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: news talked a lot about how like a woman wrote
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: the movie in a different context at I'm not criticizing this,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: but I just like most of the coverage of Nancy
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Dawd at this time was like, it's the raunchiest comedy
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: of the year and a woa wall will woman wrote it,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: and like which, I think that we still see stuff
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: like that, and it's still like the majority of ron
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Gi comedies that come out are not written by I
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: don't think that there's really parody. I mean, there's not
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: parody in film in general, but I think, especially in
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: this genre, it still feels super male driven. I feel
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: like joy Ride is the only exception I can think
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: of this year. But I read some of the coverage
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: because I was like, well, how did Nancy Dowd kind
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: of feeld this? And I thought she was cool. I
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: thought she was really funny and really cool. She says
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: this in a New York Times article from nineteen seventy seven.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: This is how it's set up, set up obscenity hockey,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: A woman missed out. Has been meeting so many people
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: lately who can't believe that she actually wrote this screenplay,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: that she is beginning to lose her patients, and she says, quote,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: the world has a weird view of women. People seem
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: to believe that we have to write about divorce or
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: suicide or children so called women's topics. But we've been
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: around women aren't sequestered any more, and kind of just
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: goes on to talk about how it reminds me of
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: like how you still see a lot of women writers
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: being like, well, I wish this wasn't the story. Shut up,
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: like watch the movie and like it or don't. But
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: this movie was, even in its time, considered to be
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: pretty sexist. I think Paul Newman called it honestly sexist,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: which I think is an interesting way to come about it.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: And I think I think what he's trying to say,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know, let me know if either of you
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: feel differently, is that it feels like it's more speaking
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: to like how Nancy Dowd was not transcribing dialogue but
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: like just sort of saying authentically how guys she was
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: hanging out with were talking and not sanitizing what they
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: were saying. So it's like she was hanging out with
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: sexist guys. The movie is honestly sexist because she's not like,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: you know, sugar making out more appealing.
• 54:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know I would say too that, you know,
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: when it came out, you know, and I was whatever,
• 54:58
  Speaker 6: eighteen years old. I don't recall knowing that a woman
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: wrote it at the time.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, we just you know, you should have been
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: reading the New York Times, well they couldn't shut up
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: Reading the Brockton Enterprise, and hoping to one day work
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: for the Patriot Ledger. But we were just excited because
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: there was a movie about hockey, you know, and it
• 55:21
  Speaker 6: was our thing. Really didn't take it that much farther.
• 55:25
  Speaker 6: You know. I was surprised when I like looked a
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: little bit more into it later on, you know, just
• 55:29
  Speaker 6: finding out like little little things about people who were
• 55:33
  Speaker 6: in the movie. You know that that got me to look,
• 55:36
  Speaker 6: you know, behind this, not behind the scenes, but behind
• 55:39
  Speaker 6: the story. And it was like, you know, the only
• 55:41
  Speaker 6: thing was like, oh, a woman wrote it. I guess,
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: you know. My not reaction to that, But like the
• 55:48
  Speaker 6: way I I might come off that way is like
• 55:51
  Speaker 6: like if her brother wrote the movie, it'd be like, oh, yeah,
• 55:55
  Speaker 6: of course, you know, like all that dialogue, this and that,
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: and it just it just you know, it just wouldn't
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: have seemed you know, it's so raunchy. Like I'm not
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: saying like anybody can't be raunchy, but it's like you
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: know that one character, you know, Kaylin you brought up
• 56:10
  Speaker 6: Marris is like it's gross, you know, it's like it's hideous,
• 56:14
  Speaker 6: like his h you know, I was saying to Jamie
• 56:18
  Speaker 6: it was not like I never heard some of those
• 56:20
  Speaker 6: terms before, but like so so rare, you know, and
• 56:26
  Speaker 6: you know, I mean, I don't know. I guess in
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: an office, you know, on a team, there's always that
• 56:32
  Speaker 6: one person that you know takes it a little bit
• 56:36
  Speaker 6: farther or just like is extreme.
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 56:39
  Speaker 6: And as I was as I was watching it the
• 56:41
  Speaker 6: other night, it was like I didn't catch, you know,
• 56:45
  Speaker 6: in my earlier viewings of it that a lot of
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: his teammates are kind of grossed out by him too,
• 56:50
  Speaker 6: which is like, well, you know, thank God for that,
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: you know.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's well, we'll get into this,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: like I I don't know, it's I think that it
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: seems like her goal in writing the movie was like
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: writing obviously like a movie that people would like that
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: was funny, but was also like authentic to what she'd experienced,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: which I don't really have a problem with. I think
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: it's more like, especially because this movie has been out
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: for almost, you know, fifty years now, like it's interesting
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: watching like what parts of this movie are its legacy
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: because I feel like the parts that I thought were
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: interesting about the movie are not parts of the movie
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: that are famous. And also that's like the writer has
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: no control over what becomes known about their work or not.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: But it just I don't know. I just think it's
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: there was more to this movie than I thought, but
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: like the nuanced parts of it aren't what it's known for.
• 57:46
  Speaker 5: That Plus like, yeah, she was observing the team, and
• 57:52
  Speaker 5: who knows, like if she was like transcribing like stuff
• 57:56
  Speaker 5: that they said and putting it into the script or
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: if she was in Belle some of it, But it
• 58:01
  Speaker 5: seems like for the most part she's like, well, the
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: way that Dicky Dunn just tries to capture the spirit
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: of the thing, I'm.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Guessing she's trying to do that.
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: Yes, Nancy Dowd was just trying to capture the spirit
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: of the thing, and that seems like the spirit was
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: a lot of like pretty losersh guys who are either
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: creepy or stockery, or they don't treat women well, et cetera.
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: That's just the vibe. Those were the vibes she was getting,
• 58:27
  Speaker 5: so that's what she put on the page. My concern
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: is that a lot of it is presented uncritically and
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: or just framed, like Morris saying all of his gross
• 58:40
  Speaker 5: comments about women's bodies and stuff like that, is usually
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: just framed as a joke like ha ha, look at
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: the look at the team creep. Isn't he funny? Aren't
• 58:49
  Speaker 5: we laughing at him? Yeah? So, but again it's like,
• 58:52
  Speaker 5: you know, it's the seventies. A lot of horrible things
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: we're not presented critically. It was just this is what's normal,
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: and it's normal, so that's fine.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, it's movies of this era are always,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like, tricky in that way.
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: Sorry. I have one more quote from her from this
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: New York Times piece. The piece goes on she's generally
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: frustrated that the movie was considered to have strong sexist overtones.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: This was something I was talked about in original reviews
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: of the movie, but she was annoyed with that. She said,
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: quote the only thing I thought twice about writing was
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: making the team's rich, uncaring owner a woman. I worried
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: about people saying I had made a sexist statement, but
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: I've seen that woman's attitude so many times. Quote I
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: never let my children see a hockey game, unquote, So
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: it seems I mean, whatever she felt, she felt differently,
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: And I don't know. It's like, I feel I respect
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: what she's trying to do, and I also agree with
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: what you're saying. Gayalen is like it just depends on
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: like how your movie is received and how like I think,
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: if you're looking renuanced in this movie, you can find it,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: but because of the genre, you might not necessarily be
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: looking for it.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 6: I don't know, you know, And I think too like that,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: you know, the fact that the owner is a woman,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 6: you know, as I was, you know, pitching this idea
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 6: to to Jamie, it's like, I don't think this will pass.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 6: I think this is like the worst possible. But she's
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 6: she's you know, use the description rich uncaring. It's also
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 6: it's a she's a ruthless, bottom line business person, right,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 6: and like any guy would have done that, you know, Yeah,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: I mean, in the same you know, but so I don't.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 6: I don't know that you saw a lot of that
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 6: back then where the I don't know, is it called
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 6: girl boss. I don't want to step in anything here,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 6: you know.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you've seen my you've seen my show. I mean,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: I think it kind of I think that it does
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: fall into that thing. I don't know. I think it's
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: interesting that that was what was on her mind in
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: seventy seven, because I that was one of the characters
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: that I didn't think, really I didn't have an issue with.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I had an issue with how reg treated her versus
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: like how she was portrayed, because it was like at
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: that point for me, I don't know how you felt
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: at this point in the movie, Caitlin, but it was
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: like you had seen different kinds of women throughout this
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: movie that It's like I feel like sometimes if there's
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: only one woman in the movie and she is like
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: a ruthless, cruel person, then it's like, well, I have
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: no idea how this writer feels about women. This seems
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: like how they're presenting all women. But because it's like
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: this one character who comes up late in the movie,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I feel like she represents more of a class thing
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: than any sort of commentary on gender. And I was
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: fine with that, Like it's you know, she and reg
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: and is seen both suck in very very different ways.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that worked for me. I thought it was
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: interesting that that was the thing that stuck with her
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: because I think the thing that stuck with me really
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: was I agree, like there there's not any pushback on
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: how men talk about women in this movie. I agree
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: with you Dad that like they're there. There were some
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: that you know, you would but you would have to
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: kind of be looking for it of like someone being
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: like Hugh because they do like the there. I think
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: that the character that is most clearly written in a
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: way that the movie is conscious of being sexist is
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know, do you know what the name of
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: that character is, Like the one that is who only
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: says sexist Morris Morris. Yeah, Yeah, Morris's whole thing is
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: that he views women as objects. And it's like that's
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: the joke with this character.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, And you know, and to go back to go
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 6: back to the point that it's a two hour movie.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 6: If you cut Marris out right, it becomes a it
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 6: could have been.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 5: An easier movie to digest, for sure.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and I mean, it doesn't really add anything. I
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 6: don't think, you know, it's just it's like it, you
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: know again, the scene with the owner and Paul Newman.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: You know, as I think about it now, that's like
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 6: Reg Dunlop, you know, the shoes on the other foot
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 6: now because you know, not because she's a woman, but
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 6: she's the owner and she's telling them like, yeah, I
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 6: could help you and your and your your players, but
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 6: you know, but there's nothing in it for me. There's
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 6: no money in it for me. And when he says,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 6: you know, we're human beings, you know, that's maybe about
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 6: as you know for all the other scenes where like
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 6: he's sort of vulnerable and he wants you know, France
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 6: scene back. You know, that was a it's a small scene,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 6: but that's probably you know, his most his most human
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 6: vulnerable moment maybe, you.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: Know, And it could have been a much more effective
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: just scene in general or commentary or whatever it's trying
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: to do as far as like, yeah, rich people conduct
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: and them not caring about human lives and only caring
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: about the bottom line. But then the scene ends with
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: him going on a homophobic tirade about her young son,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: and then it's just like, well, that undercuts everything that
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: could have been interesting about that scene.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 6: Right, Caitlyn, as you said earlier, the scene where you know,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 6: he's with the opponent's wife, you know, I mean, you know,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 6: she explains a very you know, personal thing to him,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 6: and he seems to be listening and have some you know,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 6: respect and everything. But then you know, right two seconds
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 6: later and that sets his character everything he can use
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 6: he will use against others, you know.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's something that I maybe, I mean,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: if it works for every I mean that maybe has
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: a good opportunity to slip over to just read as
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: a character. I wonder I'm trying to think I couldn't
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: think of like a modern day analog for this character,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: because I do think that there is value in presenting
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: a character like this, who is you know, like I struggle,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: like a comp splicated guy, but someone who responds to
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: insecurity by being hateful like that is I think something
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: that exists in the world. It exists in a lot
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: of men, but a lot of people, but mostly men
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: if we're being honest. But you know, in general, these
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: are people who exist in the world. I don't think
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: it's off the table to present that, but presenting it
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: as your movie star hero is a very difficult self
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: for me because then it's like, I think that the
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: element like Paul Newman, I think gives a good performance
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: in this movie, but he's Paul Newman. You know, he's
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: like you're gonna love him because he's Paul Newman, and
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: he's charismatic, and he's handsome, and even when he's saying
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: horrible things, especially in the late seventies where people said
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: horrible things more openly than they currently do, Like, it's
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: just it's even if there is something to be said
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: about presenting a character like this, I feel like the
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: combination of positioning it as your main character and your hero,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: and also like combining that with he doesn't really I mean,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: I guess like he doesn't get what he wants in
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: the way that we see in some movies where like
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: someone fucking sucks the whole movie and then for some
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: reason they get exactly what they want at the end.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: It's it's a mixed bag for reg at the end.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: But I wouldn't say he like he doesn't get his
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: uh really, like he gets to continue to work in hockey,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: like he gets part of it. I think the main
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: thing he loses is the relationship that he very obviously
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: still wants, right and deservedly so, and not I think
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: is one of the better done parts of the movie
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: for sure. But yeah, I don't know. I struggled with
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: how his character was framed.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: I don't know, especially because he learns nothing, he shows
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: no growth, and even at the end when it seems like,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: you know what, I don't want to win this way
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 5: by you know, pummeling the other team. I want to
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 5: play hockey and win that way. And then as soon
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 5: as he's like, oh, they're scouts here.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: And it's like never mind.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's like okay, so you have absolutely no
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: code of ethics. That's interesting.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 6: And again, I mean, I don't know if we're supposed
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 6: to be where we're supposed to be in the discussion.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 6: But you know, again, the more I thought about it,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 6: I remember reading a piece several years ago about the
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 6: movie as you know, kind of a not a hockey
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 6: movie or a good but like a sort of a
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 6: snapshot of America kind of at the time, late seventies,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 6: and you know, I can't really remember what the economy
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: was like, you know, but things, you know, longtime businesses.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 6: You know, longtime industries were really taking you know, a
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 6: hit back there, like the steel industry. And one of
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 6: the things that kind of struck me watching it, it's
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 6: like with everybody depicted in there, even if they're not
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 6: characters in the movie, but like you know, the fans, right,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: they're all looking at losing their jobs because they're you know,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 6: their jobs are going to disappear. And the players, will
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 6: they get signed, you know, will the team fold? Will
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 6: it you know, they were believing it would get sold.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 6: To me, there's like this low level desperation you know,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 6: to survive on the on the parts of everyone there,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 6: you know, and in the case of Paul Newman's you know,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 6: Paul Newman being the oldest one, being not really that successful,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 6: you know, I mean, whether this is you know him
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 6: all the time or not, you know, he's he's kind
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 6: of the worst one. He's like, I will I will
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 6: do anything. I'll do whatever it takes, you know, to
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 6: be able to continue my career someplace else or here.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 6: And if it has to do with you know, kind
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 6: of manipulating my players or manipulating people who are involved
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 6: my players, you know, means to an end pretty much
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 6: all the way through.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: You know, I yeah, I the closest I can get
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: to rationalizing Regi's character. I read an essay, an academic essay.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: I was on Google dot scholar dot com.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, this was published in athlon A E. T. H.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: L O N. Eighth Lawn, The Journal of Sport Literature,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: Volume thirty seven, issue one, from twenty nineteen, written by
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: John Source. So take everything he says with a grain AsSalt.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: But I did really appreciate his retrospective view on this movie,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: and I think because it offered because he did a
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: more class driven view of the men on this team,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: which I do think is a valuable way of looking
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: at this movie. But he basically makes the argument that
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: Reggi's character like doesn't shy away from the fact that
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: reg is a despicable character, and I do. I guess
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: it's like we don't have nineteen seventies than goggles to
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: put on. And I wonder how clearly that read at
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: the time. But I think that the argument that he
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: makes that I think is interesting and kind of speaks
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: to like the parts of this movie that did work
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: for me was that, you know, I think the setting
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: is very relevant here where they're like encapsulated in this
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: fictional steel town where jobs are falling left and right.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: There's this huge sense of insecurity about the future, and
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: you see in these men on the team a level
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: of like people acting desperately when their future is insecure.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: And I think reg is a really extreme, kind of
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: like monstrous version of that, where he is so desperate
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: to preserve what he wants for his version of the
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: future that he will undercut almost anyone in his life,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: even if he likes and respects them. He is not
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: above completely selling them out in order to present the
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: future that he feels entitled to. And John Stores kind
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: of makes the argument that this movie illustrates, well, I
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: guess something that is historically true. I didn't know this.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: I was delighted to learn it that in times of
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: economic insecurity and in recessions and depressions, women are like
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: statistically more likely to move with the time, and men
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: are more likely to cling to how things were and
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: be unwilling to change their situation. They're less likely to
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: want to move, they're less likely to want to switch professions.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: They're less likely to want to change the way that
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: their day to day life is versus women are far
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: more likely to be I guess, like just kind of
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: more realistic about what's happening, yea.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 5: More adaptable.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 6: You know, there's a line in the movie and in
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 6: the scene where you know, redgch and his opponent's wife
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 6: are in bed, and it closes with I think he's
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 6: telling her, you know, the team's going to fold or
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 6: the team you know, I don't know what I'm going
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 6: to do, and she says to him, you know, just
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 6: just use your imagination. That's what I've been doing. So
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 6: it's you know, and I think he uses that line
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 6: himself later on ye on somebody else, but you know.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: But he's still I mean, but I think that that's
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: part of like what is frustrating about the men in
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: this movie for me is like they even at the end,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: and I think the movie is conscious of this, Like
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: reg has not really changed because his last line is
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: him lying about whether his wife is leaving him or not,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: because you know, Lily is like, oh, is she coming
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, and we know she's not, and
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: it's like this it's kind of like a I think
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: viewed a certain way, and this is not the way
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: that this character is regarded in pop culture. But I
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: liked looking at it that way of like, this guy
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: is kind of tragic. He can't accept that things are
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: changing and that his life is changing, and that is
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: something that I think is like very relatable and everyone
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: has experienced that to some degree. And also it's like
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: if you whatever, because we as the audience know that
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: he is just like really committed to having the upper
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: hand in his life in a way that's impossible, and
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was interesting. But yeah, I think
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: that viewed from that sort of perspective, the men in
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: this movie are not flexible. They are completely inflexible and
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: they refuse to accept a future that is uncomfortable to them.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: And the women in this movie are not like that.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: They will I mean, I think that the well, and
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about really shortly because it's like her character
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: is so frustrating because I feel like she was inconsistent
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: with this. But with the characters of Suzanne, who is
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: Suzanne Hanrahan, I'm assuming, and Francine, they are both women
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: who are like, look, I was either uncomfortable safe, and
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: so I got the fuck out and I moved on
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: with my life. And that's like, that's what you have
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: to do to survive. And I think it's especially effective
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: with Francine because she knows that she's right to leave him.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: I honestly was I thought that the movie would end
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: with them getting back together, and I was so thrilled
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: that it didn't. Absolutely, it feels like a good fake out.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah, she turns her car around and joins the parade. Yeah,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 6: I mean, and that was you know again, that was
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 6: a thing that sort of struck me about the movie.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 6: You know, you know a lot of other movies, that's
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 6: what would have happened. You know, they would have gotten
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 6: together at the end.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 5: You know, she would have been like, wow, you won
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: the trophy at the championship game. Well here's me another trophy.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Trophy.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 6: Well, you know happy endings and movies, right, that's.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: The Hollywood does love a happy ending.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: But the last shot of this movie is her driving
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: any other direction, and I feel like that's great. That
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: was my favorite sort of thread in the movie is
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: I felt like, because of the time, and I mean
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: this still happens in movies, that they would somehow end
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: up reconciling. When she showed up at the game at
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: the end, I'm like, well, that's curtains on Franccene, she's
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: gonna be fucked over, but rewatching it again knowing that
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: she leaves. It's even kind of like cooler. Yeah, she
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: was my favorite character because she consistently like she has
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: affection for her ex husband but also like doesn't want
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: to get back together. And I think like in their interactions,
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: it was really interesting because Paul Newman's character is constantly
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: trying to like manufacture a need that she would have
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: for him, where he's he's constantly like, well, if you
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: need money, you can call me, and she's like, I
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: don't bat like you know, she doesn't need him, and
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: he can't, like he knows that at his core because
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: he says it behind her back. He never says it
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: to her face, but he says behind her back, like, oh, yeah,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: since my wife broke up with me, her life has
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: been way better, Like he says that to Lily, So
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: it's like he knows it, but he can't really admit it.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: And it's just it felt like an interesting, like complicated
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: relationship dynamic that feels like something that happens in the
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: real world. And I just like that specific subplot I
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: think kind of worked for me. Especially because Francine was like,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: you know, touched that he seemed to recognize that when
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: she heard it from a third party. But he's right,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: and she wants to move on with her life and
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: she does, and I thought that that was cool. Yes,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: But for some reason, that same nuance in generosity is
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: not extended to Lily, which I found to be so weird.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: I'm like, was that a studio note, like two women
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: can't leave their husbands? It can just be the one
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: like what happened there? Because Lily, I think again, it's
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: set up in an interesting way, but then it kind
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: of goes away by the ant of the movie.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 5: Right, it seems like she's being set up to that
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 5: her arc will be, like she's mustering up the courage
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 5: to actually leave her husband, which is something that she
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 5: seems to want to do for a while. She's like
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 5: very vocal about how miserable she is in this town.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 5: She seems very miserable in the relationship. She's watching her
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 5: husband flirting with other women, and she eventually I don't
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 5: know if there's some catalysts that gets her to finally
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 5: leave him or if it just kind of happens. But
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 5: one day she shows up on. Also the fact that
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: she goes to Reggie. I guess he's the only person
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 5: who has like extended any kind of olive Brancher or anything.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: I sort of found that to be an act of
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: desperation because we've seen her fail to make friends and
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: connections inside of this small world that she's been forced into.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 5: Kind of right, because we see her hang out with
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 5: other hockey wives for lack of a better term.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Who to be fair, and I think this is like
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: a class thing where she and her husband ned because
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: they're like from you know, well to do families, and
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: they're both college educated. She is positioned as like smarter, hotter,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: better than the other hockey wives, which didn't feel fair.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, and she's not able to connect with them.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 5: So anyway, she leaves Bryden for a while and goes
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 5: to Reggie and she's like I'm moving in, I guess,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 5: and then he takes her. He introduces her to Francine,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 5: and what I would have liked to have happened was
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 5: they become friends. They have a lot of common ground,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 5: you know, they're both.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: Which is like established, and the one scene they have together,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: it's like.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 5: Right, like there's a lot to learn for sure, like
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 5: there are neither like current or former relationships with hockey
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 5: players who don't know how to treat women well at all,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 5: and the women are sick of it. And I thought
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 5: it was gonna be a situation where Franccene empowers Lily
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 5: to like, you know, strike out on her own, because there's.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Which it's like, I well, but that's what was so confusing,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: because it felt like, you know, you can. I don't know,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: like the makeover thing didn't bother me at all really
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: because it's also like we're seeing Susanne or no, sorry,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: we're seeing Francine at her job. So okay. I think
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: a lesser movie would have reg be like we gotta
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: make this girl over and you know, but like Reg
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: right there and Francine and like whatever, it's a dated
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: way of doing it. But I was like, okay, but
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: then when but then when they go to the hockey game,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: like what happened? Because I really liked that conversation where
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: Lily is and again it's like in the context of
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: like what I mean, we're well into second wave feminism
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: by the late seventies, but leaving your husband in the
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: late seventies is different. Than currently, right, and there are
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: different dynamics to that, and so I understand why, like
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: Lily is nervous about it. It's a nerve wracking experience
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: to leave your spouse, no matter what year is happening in.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: But I liked how Francine like she said, it's lousy
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: at first you think you're dying, but then it's fabulous.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: You become a new woman and you're like, this is
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: such an interesting dynamic to set up, but then it
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: just goes nowhere, it goes back nowhere.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and the interesting you know Caitlyn too, I mean,
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 6: like and Jamie.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 6: That's your name, right, Yeah, I agree. Like Lily, you know,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 6: that whole character sort of confuses me because you know,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 6: she makes very clear she doesn't like that life. They
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 6: could go back to, you know, something easier with money,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 6: and she leaves her husband but stays in the life,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 6: you know, she stays in the town. She goes to
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 6: another hockey person, you know.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: So it's like, I do wonder, I mean, but I wondered,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: like if that was just like temporary and then she
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: because it was like, I mean, I guess it took Franccene.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: We don't know how long she and REGI been separated,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: or how long Francine had to save or whatever it
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: would take for her to start her restart her life
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: somewhere else.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 5: But it's I don't know.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: It seems like the movie was setting us up for like, oh,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: Francine could inspire or give Lily the confidence to do
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: something similar.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 6: Yes, coach, I agree, like I empower her coachure so
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 6: that that part was a little bit hard not to
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 6: just off it. It was like, oh, I didn't think
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 6: that was going to be the result of this, you.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: Know, right, because then it's like Ned, Ned does not
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: change at all. I know that, like symbolically him doing
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: the strip tease is supposed to mean something, but it
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: just like that did nothing for me at all. I
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: found his character frustrating throughout. I mean, as you know that,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: I just like did not take to that character at all.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't like him. I thought he was both snobby
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: and exactly all of the things that he claimed that
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: he was above. Like I just I just didn't. I
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: thought he's like such a snotty little asshole who is
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: horrible to his wife. I didn't know how to communicate
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: with her. Again, A legitimate relationship dynamic to explore, but
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: like I felt like at the end, he's like, now
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: I got my wife back and she's got this cool
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: new makeover, and it's like, but you did nothing, You
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: did nothing. And the last thing he did before he
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: did his weird little routine that I didn't like, was
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: like talk shit about her on the radio. And I
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: was like, is ay, I'm going to tell her about that, Say,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: we're gonna tell her that he called her a hot
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: piece of ass who's an alcoholic that hates him on
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: the radio, because I would not be thrilled to hear
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: my spouse saying shit like that.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 5: True, But then I'd be like, but he's exactly right.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 5: I am a hot who.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: And I'd stop drinking if I if I just left him.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. I mean when fran Scene and Lily show
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 5: up to the game at the end, one of them says,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 5: what am I even doing here? And I'm like, yeah, your.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: Question, what are you even doing there? I wish that
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: I knew the answer.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 6: Well, I think if if Lily wanted to go to
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 6: that last game, she did not really have a lot
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 6: of friends among the other wives. True, you know, so
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 6: you know, like as an ally maybe and there is
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 6: another scene and you know, you know, we've talked mainly
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 6: about the same two three women, but there are some
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 6: scenes with the other wise. Like there's a scene where
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 6: the wives are all in their car waiting for their
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 6: husbands to get home from a bus trip, and I
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 6: thought it's a sort of a sad scene, but in
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 6: the in the same way, they kind of like have
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 6: to kind of you know, form their own little group
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 6: and rally around each other and support each other because
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 6: they clearly are not, you know, too psyched with with
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 6: the life either. And there you know what their husbands
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 6: are doing, and you know that they're gone and this
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 6: and that.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 5: I wish, since this is mostly an ensemble cast, you know,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 5: you've got Paul Newman as like the main character, but
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 5: you've got a lot of little subplots with various other characters,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 5: that there was more focus on the wives of these
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 5: hockey players, because to me, they're in more interesting situations
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 5: than especially because so many of the men are characterised
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 5: as either just being like hot headed or trying to
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 5: prove something about their masculinity, or their sleezy creeps or
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 5: their wildly homophobic you know, all of this stuff that
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 5: I don't want to see. And then the women are
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 5: in this position of you know, it's a time where
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 5: a lot of people in like hetero couples, the women
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 5: were still relying on their husbands for sustainable like for
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 5: his income, and women in the workplace were not as
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 5: welcome as they are today. So it was hard to
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 5: be a single woman or to be, you know, someone
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 5: earning your own way as a woman at that time.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 5: And so they're relying on these men who are not
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 5: treating them well at all. But it's also very like
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: normalized culturally, but they still are like heavily drinking about it.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 5: There's a scene where.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: I will actually I liked the scene. I think you're
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: gonna reference because I yeah, it's I'm trying to like
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: put this through because it's like, it's not like there
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: were not movies that had women protagonists in the seventies,
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: but in sports movies, I know that that was I
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: feel like, I don't know, I feel like I feel
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: a little defensive of Nancy Dad because I will say
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: I do think that in this movie, the men, with
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: the exception of reg who at least you see a
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: few layers of even though I kind of dislike all
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: of them, but you do see different layers of this character,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: so there's like nuance and how he's written. But I
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: think that the women that are presented far more broadly
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: than the men are, because most of the hockey team,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: except for like Ned and reg are like just like,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: here's this guy, and this is what he does and
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: how he reacts. Like here's a sexist guy, here's a
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: violent guy, here's a homophobic guy. And you're like, there's
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: all these guys and they're written in the very, very
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: broad way that men in raunchy comedies are, which is
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: kind of why I don't like the genre. But I
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: will say that, like, I mean, I even think back
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: to like raunchy comedies that came out when we were
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: the target audience, and I'm thinking like early hangover movies
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: and like John Appatown movies and shit like that, and
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: I feel like in this movie you get women, like
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: more different kinds of women then you did, like thirty
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: years later in some cases. But I think the hockey
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: wives are the most broadly written women that appear in
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: the movie. And I didn't love that because I feel
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: like it in the same way that I didn't like
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: when Ned was like a snotty like I went to
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: whatever fucking school he went to, and so I'm better
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: than most of the guys on this team. Like it's
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: just like a moral superiority. And Lily kind of takes
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: that into how she treats the hockey wives, where I
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: think she treats them kind of as like bimbos who
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: aren't as smart as her, and it seems like that
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: is a part of the reason that she doesn't hang
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: out with them, because it seems like the other hockey wives,
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: who I don't know if we get names for them,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: they seem like they I mean, they have a lot
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: in common. A lot of what they have in common sucks.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Is like they are sort of along for the ride
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: of their husband's career and it seems isolating and depressing
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: and frustrating. And I thought it was she's made a
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: joke of but we see the same a few different times.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: Who's constantly like kind of referencing.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 5: Like Johnny either like Johnny, Yes, Johnny's Who's Johnny. I
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 5: have no idea which flayers Johnny is, but he's one
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 5: of them, one of those.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: But I thought Johnny's wife, like she's played for laughs mostly,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: but I thought it was like, I don't know, I didn't.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: I liked her like she was she was like trying
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: to make the best of what she seemed to know
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: is a bad situation. But she's like I'm trying to
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: get my husband to read a book, or like I'm
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: trying to get my husband to do anything except be
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: a fucking goon, which is like whatever, what Like all
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: the guys in the team are, and it's you know,
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: it's not. Is it the most progressive thing ever? No,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: But I didn't feel like there is, Like she was
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: like an interesting character that I wish it had been
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: played for more than laughs, because when one of the
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: fights that Lily and Ned have in public, you know,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: Lily basically ends by being like me and Ned are
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: better than everyone here, bye, and like leaves right and
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: Johnny's wife, who God, I wish she had a name
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: respond to that by being like, oh, I really feel
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: for her, and You're like, that's I don't know, I whatever,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: Like I guess I understood like those it seems like
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: it's implied in the movie that those women don't connect
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: with each other because of class differences, But I felt
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: like the Hockey Wives I thought were played broadly in
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: a way that it would have been because I appreciated
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: that the movie made time for women at all, which
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: again it's like, I like, sports movies almost never do,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: and if you do, it's like the supportive wife like
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: grabbing their husband's hand being like go go coach a
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: baby or whatever the fuck, which is like so fucking boring.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: But it's like how a lot of women appear in
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: sports movies at all. But there was especially because it's
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: like Nancy Dad seemed to want to include women, but
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: it felt like well to an extent, like I'm happy
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: to include educated women, but like it seemed like the
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: hockey wives, I just feel like there was room for
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: them to be played off as more of kind of
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: one liners. But I liked that scene in the car
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: where it was like, even though these women don't get along,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: they do have a common struggle and they are pushed
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: aside and expected to put up with all of this shit,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: and it's like leading to addiction issues for them.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 5: And yeah, they all seem to be self medicating to
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 5: fight the just either loneliness or abuse that they're putting
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 5: up with. Can we talk about Suzanne because.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Suzanne.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 5: So Suzanne is the character. I think she's only in
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 5: one scene.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is wild because the actor who plays her
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: is like so successful and won an Oscar like this
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: same year.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 5: Oh wow, what's her name? I didn't even look it up.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: Belinda Dyllon You probably my dad picked up on this.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she is she? I think most
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: iconically plays the mom in a Christmas Story. But she
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: or no, sorry, she was nominated this same year for
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: playing I think the mom character in Close Encounters. Okay,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: but whatever. She's like a very very successful actor, but.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 7: She's only in this movie for one minute, for one scene,
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 7: and it's the scene where she's in bed with Reggie
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 7: and she's talking about how her husband Hanrahan, when he
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 7: was like out on the road for a game, how
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 7: she and another hockey wife they would get together and
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 7: talk about how depressed and lonely they were without the men,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 7: and then also how they lamented that they never did
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 7: much of anything themselves, which I feel like is also
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 7: maybe what Lily.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 5: Struggles with to some degree, where she's like, I'm not
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 5: doing anything but like supporting my husband in his career,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 5: but like, what about or maybe this is just like
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 5: headcanon that I'm assigning to Lily. But anyway, Suzanne's talking
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 5: about how like, oh, I never did anything for myself,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 5: and then she goes on to describe how one night
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 5: when she and this other hockey wife were hanging out,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 5: they were drinking and they started fooling around, but then
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 5: they kept getting together and having sex sober, and that
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 5: they were like engaging in this like sexual relationship that
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 5: they were both into. And she's like, hey, Reg, have
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 5: you ever considered sleeping with men? And at first he
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 5: says no, but then he's like, who knows, maybe I'll
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 5: start sleeping with old goalies. And then I'm like, okay,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 5: he's I don't know.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: That scene is like almost and then it's so frustrating.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 8: But it's also like I feel like that's like Reg sucks,
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 8: and it's like it's so frustrating to see a character
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 8: that in their more private moments seems to be a
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 8: better person than they are in their.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 5: Public Yeah, right, Because again, the whole reason this scene
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 5: even happens narratively in the movie is that so he
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 5: now has information that he uses against his opponent in
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 5: a way that like outs this guy's wife like disparages
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 5: her for her queerness, and he's like using that as
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 5: ammunition to try to win the game, and like for
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 5: his own personal benefit. He does something similar with the
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 5: general manager, that guy Joe, where he's like, Hey, remember
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 5: that night that you I walked in on you and
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 5: you were wearing like women's lingerie and then you came
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 5: on to me. Well, I don't have to tell anyone
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 5: about that as long as you give me. So he
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 5: basically like blackmails him to learn the owner who the
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 5: owner of the team is.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: That's something that yeah, And then that's like I do
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: think the Reges is a super villain because I do
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: almost believe him when he says that he like he's like,
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: I get it, it's the seventies, queer people exist, Like,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: I do believe that he understands that. But the fact
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: that he understands that and is not above exploiting societal
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: homophobia against people that he knows and says he likes,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: it's like, that's that's extra evil. That's extra evil.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 6: And in that scene, you know, like first of all,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 6: the scene where he you know, kind of bates the
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 6: opponent the goalie, right, you know, with this information that
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 6: he has about his wife, you know, from a hockey perspective,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 6: you know, nobody, nobody stands on the ice and shouts
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 6: at someone and then moves over.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: You know, Oh, they're not shouting plot points at each
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: other on the.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 6: Oh no no, So that that was like annoying because
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 6: some of the you know, some of the stuff with
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 6: the Hanson brothers, the hockey, the skating, the this that
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 6: the hitting you know is legit. Those guys were really
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 6: hockey players. But so Reg Dunlop and rages the goalie
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 6: who attacks him finally after a goal and it's a
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 6: big fight. Now does anybody know at first, like what
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 6: caused this big fight? Did anybody hear what Reggie was saying?
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 6: I don't think so. Just the goalie? Yeah, so he
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 6: he could have left it there on the ice, right,
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 6: But then he comes in and tells his whole team
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 6: like when they asked him, would you say you know?
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 6: And he he out you know someone else that he was.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 6: You know, I don't know that that is diabolical.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's evil, like it's and it's a first because
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't hate their scene together before I saw the
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: scene after because it felt like these are themes and
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: just like queer people like just appearing in movies at
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: all in a way that was like it seemed like
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: they both accepted each other in that scene, and like
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: the language is not great, but it's like for the time,
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: it was like, wow, this it seems very unlikely that
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: this was appearing in like popular summer comedies at the time.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: So okay, like you know, I can navigate around the
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: dated elements of it, but yeah, it's yeah, he was
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: so evil about that. And I feel like she because
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: that character never comes back, It doesn't come back around
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: in a satisfying way, but in the same way. I mean,
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: I love her. I like that scene. I think the
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: last thing that we were talking about Dad that I
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: think is extra evil about Reg in that situation is
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: that she mentions in that scene that when her husband
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: found out that she had had sex with women, he
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: was so abusive to her that she was in the hospital.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: And it's like, well, Reg clearly doesn't care about that,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: because he then taunts her husband that he knows to
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: be abusive, and she says that like she's hiding out
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: from him, Like it's just it sounds like she was
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: in this tremendously abusive relationship, which again I believe it
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: like seems, you know, whatever that still happens. But the
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: fact that like our movie starting Hero then does that,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: I feel like it did undercut the fact that the
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: movie went out of its way to say like that
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: her having a queer relationship. Not only was he up
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: said about being cheated on, but also this thing that
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: felt I don't know, I mean that I guess you
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: can tell us. For the time, like, there seemed like
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: there was talk among the men of just confusion and
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: like hateful confusion in handra hand and the whole team's case,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: They're like, well, if my wife has a relationship with
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: a woman, then am I gay and I can't be gay?
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: And like just like stuff that makes no sense.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that was a stretch. I think I don't know
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 6: that that, you know.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: I was like people people believe that.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not sure that, you know, but when I
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 6: was a kid, I don't really think that that is
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 6: what somebody thought.
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, it doesn't make any sense, but yeah, okay,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: I was. I was curious about that, but it Yeah,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, just again, reg Reg sucks. I love Paul
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: Newman and I love salad, but I hate reg and
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: it is what it is. But I did think that
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: it was Again, it's like this this movie feels like
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: it's doing incremental stuff in this genre that you don't
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: see decades later. So I do appreciate that it's like
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: there is a queer character who is like open about
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: it is cool, is performed in a way that felt
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: authentic and cool. But also the seventies element of it
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: is that they're immediately put in danger and then never
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: appear in the movie.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 5: So and you know, she's she's talking about her sexual
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 5: relationship with a woman, but the scene we're seeing on
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 5: screen is her in a sexual situation with a man,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 5: because heaven forbid we see like queer romance or sexuality
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 5: actually on screen at that time.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: Sure, or And it's like I sort of chalked that
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: up more to like, well, how did people talk about
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: bisexuality in the seventies? Did they know? How did they
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: have the tools? I just sort of assumed they did.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 5: But also like the way that raunchy comedies of like
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 5: the nineties and two thousands would have.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: Which I think are worse than this movie on us.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 5: They are they Yeah, and we've talked about I think
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 5: I've like speculated as to why, but the way that
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 5: those movies will have visibility of queer characters or of
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 5: people of color, but they're only there to then like
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 5: punching bags to the main characters who are just saying
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 5: horrible things and like making jokes at their expense of
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 5: like what in whatever way they are marginalized, That's that's
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 5: why they're there, and it's so jokes can be made
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 5: at their expense. So and I felt the same way
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 5: for Suzanne, like, yes, she's a queer character who's talking
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 5: openly about her queerness to someone who seems receptive to it.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 5: But we learned that that scene is only in the
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 5: movie so that this guy can use that as ammunition
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 5: to win a hockey game and then boast about it.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 5: He's like, yeah, team, the reason we won is because
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 5: I outed this woman who has an abusive husband.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 9: And anyone who had listened, yeah, that's I think that's
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 9: like that's a good not that it justifies any kind
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 9: of behavior, but the fact that he does it a
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 9: second time, like he shouts it her husband, which is
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 9: putting her in danger in one way, but.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: Then he does it a second time right.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 5: After, and it's like saying, he's the worst.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: How are you doing that?
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 5: I don't have much else to say except that their
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 5: their bus driver is wearing a helmet with a swastika
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 5: on it.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: I noticed that as well.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 6: I never never caught that the first several times I
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 6: watched the movie. You know, Walt Walt, who just goes
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 6: from Walt the bus driver and you know, he's another one.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 6: He gets all swept and swept up in the you know,
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 6: Chief's mania and starts you know, hammer and the bus,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 6: you know, to make it look meaner, and then the swastika,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 6: you know, but that you're.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: Just like, is that? Yeah? That that was a kind
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: of jump scare in the movie, and it's like if
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: it was. I think maybe the most generous reading of
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: that was like, oh, this team is getting more and
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: more evil, but they were like, there's so many there's
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: no world where that was necessary.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 5: No, there's also an indigenous player during the final game.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. Yes, I mean, I
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: know obviously you did get spread it up. Yes, which
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: in general, because the team in this movie are called
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: the Chiefs and there's a lot of and I think
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: that that's an ongoing conversation in sports is it is
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: teams that are named and characterize Indigenous people as mascots.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: And that's an ongoing conversation also in hockey specifically because
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: the Chicago Blackhawks. I mean that I know you know this,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: you know this whole conversation of representing Indigenous people as
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: mascots and the issues and conversations that have taken place.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: And also that team is still called the Chicago Blackhawks.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: They did not make any changes after that conversation was had.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: I was trying to happened in the mid twenty times.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: But so this team is named the Chiefs, and there
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: is a character in.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 5: The on the Syracuse team, Yes, what is his Clarence
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 5: swamp Town aka Screaming Buffalo, who is played by a
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 5: real hockey player named Joe Nolan, who is First Nations.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: I was worried that, I was really worried that it
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: was a guy in brown.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 5: A white guy. Yeah, but this is a real Indigenous person,
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 5: a real hockey player. However, the way that the costuming
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 5: and the just characterization of that character is still relying
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 5: heavily on stereotypes of Indigenous and First Nations people.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: So whoops, Yeah.
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 6: That's a tough one, you know, I mean all the
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 6: way down to like I've I said earlier, there was
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 6: so much of the hockey parts of it are like,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 6: you know, an exaggeration, you know, like almost like a caricature,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 6: you know of that scene. That's one of the things
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 6: in the in the mood, it's like that never would
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 6: be allowed. You know, he just he that's that's a
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 6: you know. And again it's you know, we've talked to
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 6: you know, if you could snip this guy out and
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 6: this guy out, it really changes thing that was like,
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 6: all right, you've you've made your point. You know that
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 6: the Syracuse team is loaded up on rugged guys, you know,
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 6: to pay you back, you know, like how many did
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 6: you have to have? Right?
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: Well? And it's also like I don't think that the
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: solution to that is cutting out that character. It's just
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: presenting this real life First Nations hockey player in a
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: way that wasn't you know, inherently connected to the fact
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: that he was a First Nations player. Like I don't know,
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: I have no objection to like having a because because
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: like you've mentioned that, there's so many real life hockey
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: players that appear in this movie, and Joe Nolan like
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: played on a number of teams, including the Johnstown Jets.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: He's from a hockey family. He is uh this is
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: according to Hockey Legends dot com scholarly journal. Yes exactly.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: He is Ojibwa. He is the uncle of Buffalo Sabers
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: coach Ted Nolan and great uncle of Jordan Nolan of
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: the La Kings. So he's like from a like legacy
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: hockey family. There's no issue with him being in this movie.
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: It's just like presenting him as not inherently connected to
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: his like it's just like it's obviously written by a
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: white writer of the time, disrespectful and just being like, well,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: this is his heritage, so this is gonna be the
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: whole character, and we're going to write it in the
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: way like we're going to write him for a white audience.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the most trophy way possible.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: And it would have been cool, Like it would have been
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: cool if Joe Nolan was cast in a role that
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: was not that like was just like he could have
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: played a he could be a guy on that team.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: But just it's obviously racist the way it's sounded.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 5: Right, with more than fifteen seconds of screen time, you know.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: I also this is like separate, but I learned about
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: it on my trip at the Hockey Hall of Fame,
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: so I wanted to mention it and we can link
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: it in the description of this episode. But just the
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: history of Native American and First Nations players within hockey,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to be discussed and learned about where
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: there are still a number of I mean like there
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: are a number of Native players in professional hockey today,
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: but there's also a history of hockey in reservation schools,
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: and hockey has a role in Canadian reservation schools. There's
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: been a lot written about it in the last couple
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: of years that I think is very relevant to what
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: we're talking about, very interesting, and especially when this Joe
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: Nolan came character came up, it was like, oh, there's
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: actually a lot of troubling and like relevant Indigenous history
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: within hockey that if you're if you're interested, we can
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: link a piece that I read below and I learned
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: about it. I don't know why I keep plugging the
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: Hockey Museum. I thought it was really interesting and we'll
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: link it.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 6: Indeed, ironically, I have never been to the Hockey Hall
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 6: of Fame.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: I know it's just like texting you pictures the whole time.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 5: Where is it Toronto?
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, in Toronto Hockey Hall of Fame. I saw the
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: Stanley Cup from a healthy distance, and then I did
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: not pay ten dollars to have my picture taken next
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: to it.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 5: Nice.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: Nice, I took a picture of it from far away.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 5: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 6: Well, just because I did all the research, one of
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 6: the one of the one of the interesting things. I mean,
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 6: the people who know this movie would be very frustrated.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 6: It was like, how could you not talk about?
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 6: The interesting things to me are that there really were
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 6: like so the three Hanson brothers. There really were three
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 6: brothers on that Johnstown team. Their last name was Carlson.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 6: They were all supposed to be in the movie. One
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 6: of them got called up to a better team, so
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 6: they had to replace him with somebody who looked similar.
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 6: His last name was Hanson, and that's that's how they
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 6: named the three the Hansons. But god, it just there's
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 6: there's a lot of little interesting things there. The one
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 6: character that he's like, I want to collect that bounty.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 6: Who is another person that reg Dunlop, You know, manipulates
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 6: because he's you know, kind of like a peacenik and
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 6: a meditator and everything like that, and all of a
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 6: sudden he becomes Dave Killer Carlson. Well, Dave Killer Carlson
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 6: was a real player, and he replaced the Hanson that
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 6: had to leave. It's just there's a lot of funny
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 6: things in there. So he thought he was going to
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 6: get to play himself, but instead he had to be
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 6: a you know, become like a surrogate brother and be
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 6: in a movie where someone played him. My last favorite
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 6: thing is, you know, I'm no actor, but throughout the
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 6: movie there are references made to this player that everybody's
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 6: fearful of, you know, Ogie oglethorpe Right. Ogie finally shows
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 6: up in that last game, never says a word, scowling
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 6: at everybody in that scene scowling and then fighting. That
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 6: is Ned Dowd, whose sister wrote the movie.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 5: Oh okay, Nancy Dowd's brother.
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 6: Yes, so Ogie is you know, but I mean, I
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 6: just that scene just cracks me up, just to skating
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 6: out with the you know, chewing the gum and looking
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 6: either aways, you know, but for for that on a
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 6: screen time, just you you know, to sell it. I'm like,
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 6: all right, nice job guy, you know.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like I think that that's like
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: just the I don't know, element of just like how
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: she did this sort of immersive approach to researching and
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: then seemed to include a lot of people that she'd
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: come across or learned about in that research in the movie.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: Like that's I just I don't know, I think that's cool.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 6: You know, and you know, there are there are elements
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 6: of truth in the two. And then I'll stop talking about.
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 6: You know, the Charlestown Chiefs slash Johnstown Jets that nineteen
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 6: seventy seven season that concluded so they could make the movie.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 6: The Jets didn't go out of business, but their league folded.
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 6: Oh oh okay, you know, so this this was a
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 6: thing that was happening, and that league had only been
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 6: around for four years. The other thing that's interesting is like,
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 6: you know how outrageous it was that like, why would
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 6: anybody a hockey team in Florida. Well, you know, there
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 6: are professional hockey teams in Florida now, and it's you know,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 6: it's gone pretty well in a couple of the places.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: So yeah, well I guess that's The last thing I
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: wanted to say was that I appreciated that the movie
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: went out of its way to connect the struggle of
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: this hockey team to what was going on in their community,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: and how like it was just like acknowledging I don't know,
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: I felt like because it was done off of this
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: very specific reporting in this region or this research I
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: guess in this region, it like does reflect the socioeconomic
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: problems in the Pittsburgh area in the late seventies and
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: connects it to this hockey team in a way that feels,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, like class conscious, in a way that
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of sports moviees either aren't or feel like
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: overly sort of melodramatic about. It. Just felt like it
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: fit very cleanly into this world, and like not only
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: like it wasn't like the town and the team because
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: it was a minor league team. The team is a
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: part of the town, and so they're all sort of
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: sharing the same kind of issues.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that and we you know, were talking about
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 5: this earlier. But how Reggie like, does a bunch of
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 5: you know, like desperate times call for desperate measures and
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 5: under capitalism when you know your livelihood is being threatened
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 5: a lot of people do have to act out of
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 5: desperation and do things that they would maybe not otherwise
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 5: do to survive. But and so in that manifests in
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 5: Reggie as like manipulating people in a way that's like
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 5: extremely harmful. So I guess my point is, like you
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 5: can do things out of desperation because capitalism is killing
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 5: us all without also being extremely homophobic and you know
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 5: all the other things that he does, Like it would
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 5: be one thing if all he did was just like
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 5: lie to his team and like plant that story in
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 5: the sports writer to be like I heard we were
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 5: getting bought by Florida, And if he tells his team
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 5: this and his objective is just to get morale up
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 5: so that they can win and like actually maybe have
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 5: a shot, Like I wouldn't have any problem with that
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 5: really because it's like a not a not a diabolical.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: Lot, but it's a victimless crime, ya.
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah. But the fact that he's doing that plus all
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 5: manner of like blackmailing, homophobia, outing people, all this stuff,
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 5: like that's where I can't.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, So you're not just gonna call him all that
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 6: old rascal red show today.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: So okay, let's get through it. This movie, does it
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: does well.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 6: I was so surprised to hear yeah.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: He kept checking with me to make sure that and
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: he was like, wait, what so it doesn't. Well, it's
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: a flawed metric. It doesn't. Just because it passes doesn't
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: mean it's a feminist movie.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 5: Right, because Lily and Francine talk about Lily's hair and
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 5: cheek bones and share and they mentioned share. And then
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 5: there's the other scene where it's Lily and then the
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 5: two other women who I don't think have names, So
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 5: by that caveat it would not pass. But they are
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 5: talking about drinking alcohol and.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: They're talking about addiction problem.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like yeah, so so.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: It's by the by the skin, it's teeth. But it
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: does technically pass. And I feel like I want to
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: I want to hand it to this movie as passing
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: because of it feels like in many ways the odds
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: are stacked against any sports movie about a men's dem
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: in passing. I was really surprised that it technically passes.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 6: I mean, if I can. I mean when I thought
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 6: about it in the you know, you know the theme
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 6: of your cast, I really just thought that this was
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 6: a movie that, you know, crass and guys and thee
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 6: but that the women kind of like stuck up for
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 6: each other other helped each other, didn't always. I mean,
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 6: France scene's great. I mean she tells them like right
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 6: off the bad one of their first scenes, like, you know,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 6: you're a terrible coach, your teams stay you know, I mean, yeah, right,
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 6: you know so and and you know, and I love,
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 6: like I said, I love most of the last scene.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 6: I still can't figure out, you know, how Lily and
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 6: Ned end up together. And I agree with you, Caitlin.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 6: I thought that that the scene with Franccene was going
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 6: to empower her to really go but yeah, you know
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 6: that fran scene, you know, goes her own way. I
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 6: mean it's just, you know, it's sort of her own
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 6: path because she you know, cuts through, cuts through the
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 6: parade and goes down the you know, down the road
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 6: by herself. I just thought it was, you know, that
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 6: that was an element to the movie that shouldn't really
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 6: you know, be overlooked for sure.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, and I do think for especially
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: for its time and also for this genre even now,
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: it is like unusual for women to be included. Also,
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: as much as I hate Ned, he was in twin peaks,
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: so that's kind of fun.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 6: He played hockey at the University of New Hampshire as.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: Well, and we can't take that from them either, of course.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 6: And it's big time hockey.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: Oh is it?
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 6: Yes?
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: See? Okay, now I'm nice, sound like an asshole. I
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: didn't know that. This movie surprised me in ways. I
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't expecting it to. But but we should. We should
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: talk about the most important metric on the face of
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: the planet, which is our nipkele scale.
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 5: Yes, a scale of zero to five nipples in which
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 5: we rate the movie. That's true, you.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: Heard, Yes, we need to break it down zero.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 5: To five nipples, rating the movie based on examining it
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 5: through an intersectional feminist lens. Yeah, I'll give this movie
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 5: one nipple for it's a handful of female characters who,
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 5: obviously I wish the movie had done a lot more
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 5: with given more just real estate in the story to Susanne.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 5: Only being there so that her situation could be used
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 5: as ammunition against her husband is obviously gross, but if
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 5: she had been a more meaningful character. So I guess
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 5: I'm giving it one nipple for the potential that the
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 5: movie mostly squandered. I do appreciate that Francine stands her
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 5: ground in not being willing to get back together with
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 5: her shitty husband. I agree that like most movies would
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 5: have like framed her as like the he's trying, he's trying,
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 5: and that at the end he finally gets her back
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 5: and she's the other trophy he wins. But this movie
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 5: doesn't do that, and that does count for something. Wow,
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 5: the bar is so low, but everything else the movie
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 5: does as far as it's just like rampant homophobia, ablest
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 5: slurs are getting tossed around casually, the treatment of the
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 5: one indigenous character that we see on screen, all that
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 5: kind of stuff. If anyone is looking for a movie
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 5: that features mostly men that is about men who are
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 5: affected by a steel mill closing, might I recommend The
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 5: Full Monty because it handles themes of toxic masculinity and
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 5: things like that in a much more thoughtful way. I
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 5: would say, not about hockey, though it is about men stripping,
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 5: although wow, similar ending because we go slapshot does end
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 5: in a strip tease. So anyway, I I'm glad. I
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 5: guess that this movie at least for like Jamie yours
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 5: and my generation and younger generations. It is not something
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 5: that most people are super aware of. It has not like,
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 5: it hasn't ended up as like this like piece of
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 5: classic Hollywood cinema that you must revisit. It's it doesn't
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 5: have much of a lasting legacy in that way.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean except for hockey fans, where it's not
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: a massive leg like in a niche way. It has
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: a huge legacy in the general way, not as much true.
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 5: True. Yeah, So one Nipple and I will give it
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 5: to my favorite character, fran scene.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this movie to Nipples because it's my
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: birthday and I know, but I do think that like
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: I agree with I mean, we've talked about it at
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: length now where this movie is not generous in so
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: many ways. It is wildly homophobic the one native character
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: it represents, which is also I think that Joe Nolan
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: is the only non white character who really appears in
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: this movie meaningfully in any way, which again is not necessary,
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: especially because of the region you're in. It's like, there's
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: plenty of diversity to be found in this region. I
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: know that hockey is predominantly a white sport, but it's
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: a movie. You can do whatever the fuck you want.
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: But I do think that this movie is I don't know,
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: I mean a sports comedy in the seventies. Having women
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: included it at all feels kind of like a miracle
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: to me. And having a successful sports movie written by
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: a woman feels kind of like a miracle to me
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: for this era. And so I want.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 5: To miracle another hockey movie.
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: Hate it, but that's like the exact kind of corny
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: ass movie I'm talking about where all the girls are like,
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: you've got this baby, and you're like, oh my god. Like,
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: I do think that this movie has incredible fault. It's
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: like at the end because because we've talked about so
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: many broad comedies on this show, and all of the
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: swings are huge, and when they hit, they hit, and
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 1: when they're bad, they're awful. They're almost worse than you
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: can find in any genre, right, And I think the
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: same is true in horror or like any like broad
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 1: niche genre that tends to be true. And so this
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: movie is wildly dated. I understand why it is not popular.
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: We watched I'm not even recommending it really, I just
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: was surprised by the fact that women were presented in
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: for the most part, in empathetic way, even though I
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: did not agree with how everyone everyone's arc was resolved.
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go too, and I'm gonna give one
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: different scene because she rocks, and one to Lily because
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: she deserved better. And I hope that she you know,
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: divorced ned six months later or whatever.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 5: Fingers crossed?
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 1: Dad, what would you give this movie?
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 6: Oh?
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: Based on his portrayal of women intersectionally.
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 6: Boy, I have to I have to do this. I'm
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 6: not trained. I'm not sure.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 5: Whatever feels right in your heart.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 6: Yes, I guess two just because too, well, no, just
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 6: because too. And I have to pick characters too.
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 5: You can do you can distribute them or you can
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 5: keep them whatever you want to do.
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 6: I mean, I like, I don't know, I just like
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 6: for inscene is A is a great character, you know,
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 6: I mean I like that part of you, know how
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 6: she's like, you know, I don't care if you you know,
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 6: I know you, you know, I know you as a person,
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 6: and you know you know you might be able to
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 6: fool everybody else, you know, but you can't fool me
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 6: anymore and goes the round the way and you know again,
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 6: missus missus Hanrahan I never remember her first. I just
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 6: think that's a touching kind of a but that's that's
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 6: a you know, that's quite a scene with her, and
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 6: it's it's serious and funny, and I just really thought
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 6: that that was a you know, probably back in the
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 6: day it was like, oh, that's a gratuitous thing, you know,
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 6: like look at this thing, but you know, looked at
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 6: now and her story and everything like that, I think that's. Yeah.
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 6: I don't know what to say. I can't say that
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 6: I think that's great, but you know, I mean, it's
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 6: it's one that like sticks with me anyway, you know.
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 5: I know what you mean. It would be a fine
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 5: scene if the thing that happens after it didn't happen exactly.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: Right, right. That's why it's like this movie is just
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: like frustrating in that way where you're like, wow, this
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: is representation or like a character you would not normally
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: see in a broad comedy, but then they're treated so
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: poorly that you're like, well, why why did you go
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: out of your way to do that? If you were
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: just going to treat them as a plot point and
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: never showed them again, which I think is also inherent
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: to this genre in the ways that I don't know.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: I found it especially frustrating too, because it's like I
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: thought Suzanne was in the one scene she had was
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: presented with empathy and she was cool, and it was like, oh,
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: this is really and then like we were talking about,
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: like she's treated horrifically and never get to see her again.
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: We don't know what happens to her, and the movie
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't really seem to have interest in it because she
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 1: was ultimately just a plot point to get read to
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 1: win to the next step.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 1: So complicated, a more complicated movie than I was expecting.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm glad we talked about it.
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 5: Yes, indeed, and thanks for joining us, sad mister Mike.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 6: Oh hey, thanks for having me along.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: Happy to do it. Yeah, do you have anything you
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: want to plug?
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah? Where can people follow you on Twitter?
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 6: I don't have us. There's no need to follow me
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 6: on Twitter. My uh, my days are done, my days
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 6: of mouthing off, and I just uh, you know which,
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 6: I didn't do that much. I was not I was
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 6: not the king of the hot takes and now I
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 6: am the king of the silent take. I'll just I'll
• 2:04:47
  Speaker 6: just read along with you all. Nice well, well, you
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 6: know I could, I could plug this, you know, this,
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 6: this podcast, a certain book about hot dogs. You know,
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 6: there's always something, but simply.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: Just google a book about hot Yeah. All right, well
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: well Dad, I really thank you for for coming on
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: the show.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 6: And I really can't believe you let us. You badgered
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 6: us into doing this.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad we did, though I don't know. It's
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: my birthday. I'm a dictator and I need to do
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: whatever I want.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, happy birthday, Jamie.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 6: This was a way to go, jam Happy birthday.
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: I remember he remembered it, and that's no I this
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: this episode was very special to me, both of you,
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: So thank you. I appreciate it, and I'm really glad
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: we got to do it.
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 5: Love you, Jamie, Love you too.
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 6: Way to go, Way to go. Team We did.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 5: We won, We won the championship game. We won.
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: We we randomly did his strip tease and somehow we
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: went there.
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 6: The best podcast in the Federal League.
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we are kind of and I say this
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: with love, we are kind of a minor league podcast.
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: And and yet our fan base is intense and they
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: fill the stands and we appreciate that we do because
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: to be a big podcast, you have to talk about
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: murder in a dishonest way and we don't do that.
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: We don't. Or you have to be like a fascist,
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: so it's fine, or you have to be I know
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: a lot about sports and we don't.
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 5: We clearly demonstrated that today that we do not know.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 8: Yeah, if there was any reason that you both did,
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 8: you both did great.
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Thanks so much.
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: You can find us on.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 5: We Are Nothing without the validation of men.
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: It's true of dad.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 6: Oh no, it's so hard.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 5: I only I only he's crying.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: He's crying. There. You can find us online up at
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast on Instagram and Twitter. You can sign up
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: for Patreon aka Patreon, patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast,
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 1: where you get two bonus epis said every month for
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: mere five dollars, and also get access to about one
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty episodes of back catalog on the Patreon Wow.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: And it's my birthday over there this month too, so
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: we really value birthdays on this podcast. So it's true.
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: We'll be covering Little Shop of Horrors and a second
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: one that on the day of this recording, I have
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 1: not yet decided my second evil pick for the Patreon
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: But well, I will think of something and it will
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: be annoying, So head over there.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 6: For that, Caitlin. When it comes, happy birthday to YouTube,
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 6: thank you.
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 5: So much, it will be in about eight months.
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 6: Okay, something like that, so just keep that in mind.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 6: It's coming. Yeah, I don't want to miss out my chance.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much. And you can also get our
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 5: merch at teapublic dot com. Slash the Bechdel Cast for
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 5: our glorious items available for purchase at any time.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: And with that, why don't we get on this local
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: parade float and lie about our wives leaving us.
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 5: Let's do it. Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 5: production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 5: produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 5: song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski.
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 5: Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 5: a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 5: the podcast, please visit linktree Slash Bechdel Cast