Latest / The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell / #4 - Carnivorous Plants, Cancer Research, and Taking Risks with Tyrrell Nelson

Transcript

#4 - Carnivorous Plants, Cancer Research, and Taking Risks with Tyrrell Nelson · The iAlign Podcast with Flint Mitchell

0:10
SPEAKER_00: What's up, y'all?
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Seeking Authenticity.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: My name is Flint Mitchell, and I get absolutely psyched by having conversations with authentic people that I admire about the things they value.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Their stories and perspectives don't just make me smile, laugh, and think.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: They inspire me to wake up earlier, listen better, focus, and work harder, and help make me a better version of myself.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: And it's my hope that sharing these conversations through this podcast might do the same thing for you.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: In this episode, I talked with a great friend and mentor, Teryl Nelson.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: She's traversed a really cool scientific career researching topics ranging from soil science and the microbiome to cancer and genetic sequencing.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: In her spare time, she's an avid explorer, an absolute lover of nature.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Being one of the coolest sources of knowledge I know on plants, ranging from the exotic and carnivorous to just a familiar tomato, we talk about her curiosity and passion for growing plants, how she's tread such a wicked career so far, and about the joy that comes from taking risks.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Whether they be about jumping onto a plane and going to Europe or just facing the fear of a new career.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: I loved listening to Taril, and I know you will too.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: To me, these are complete worlds to have an understanding on, and to be able to have all these pathways of learning, I absolutely love.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: I just think the whole world is interesting.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: There's so many things to learn.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: If there's little pieces of it that I can share that I find interesting with other people, then I'm totally happy to share.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: It's fun, it's part of why I love teaching so much.
1:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, what if I'm not the best?
1:52
SPEAKER_02: Or what if I, you know, jump into this and it's harder than I think.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: And to me, I'm willing to find out and take that risk just for the opportunity to learn something new.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: It was a learning experience, and even though it only lasted a couple years, I enjoyed every single moment of it.
2:09
SPEAKER_02: And I liked being that expert for that period of time that I could learn as much as I possibly could about it and apply it in a real way.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for doing this, my friend.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm I really appreciate it.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited that you're on.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: I've had so much fun getting to know you over the past couple years, which now realizing is almost five, probably more than five years actually.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: Six, twenty four.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: I think it's 2014.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 2015.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: It's 2015.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: All right, that's five.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I've always admired, and we were kind of talking about this beforehand, your mix of perspectives that's both adventurous yet also academic.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, because they're kind of competing interests.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: And you know, you've backpacked around Europe twice, to my knowledge, maybe it's more.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh worked in science and research labs at Cornell, Stanford, UCSF, uh, now Roche.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: I know there are a couple others that I'm blanking on, but it found it seems like you found some semblance over the course of your life of a balance, if it's even really possible, barring you know, Indiana Jones, of doing thought-provoking work and also continuing to explore, you know, and I really I really look up to that.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: I think it's really cool.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh one thing that's made it so enjoyable to be around you all the time is this really passionate curiosity that you have, uh, and that's especially apparent kind of in topics dealing with the natural world.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're a microbiologist, but also you have this really awesome passion.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: And I I I was thinking about this beforehand.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't think the word gardening really does you justice.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Like you're a you're a botanist, you know, in your free time, I think.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: And I was wondering I was wondering if you could uh share with me a bit why growing and interacting with plants or really the natural world gets, you know, is so wonderful to you.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I think it kind of started as I was a kid.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, my mom, even in our apartment out back, always had this garden, and it was mind-blowing to me that my mom could take this seed, which is essentially an embryo, right?
4:27
SPEAKER_02: This this thing and stick it in the ground, add a bit of water, and then you get this massive plant that produces fruit.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: And even as a kid, I just like give me seeds, I'll plant anything, and just trying to understand, you know, what how does this happen?
4:42
SPEAKER_02: How can you know something evolve out of that or develop out of that?
4:45
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so as a kid, I was always intrigued in it.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: And I think uh now that I, you know, as an adult, for me, it's really kind of understanding not just planting a tomato, but you know, tomatoes are related to nightshades.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's fascinating.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: Nightshades are poisonous.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, well, how did a nightshade get to the tomato?
5:05
SPEAKER_02: Ah, well, you know, this is a fascinating route of you know selective cultivation and you know other driving factors, and and then you know, trying to understand, well, okay, well, what's the difference between a determinate tomato and an indeterminate tomato?
5:19
SPEAKER_02: And why have they evolved in this way?
5:20
SPEAKER_02: How why was this select?
5:22
SPEAKER_02: And to me, this it's more like you know, one a path of learning, just understanding as much as I can about any given plant, and can I grow it?
5:31
SPEAKER_02: And you know, and not just I think right now I'm really into proteas, like I'm growing proteas.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: So these are um plants that are only native to um Africa and Australia, you know, and they're very highly specialized.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: And for one example, I have this leucospermum leucospermum, which is a pincushion uh plant.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: So it's a pincushion flower, absolutely beautiful.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: You see them in Hawaii.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I just had never seen these before until I took a trip to Hawaii.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: So I was determined to try to grow these myself and understand them.
6:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, they grow in areas that are really deplete and you know, nutrients, you can't have any phosphorus.
6:10
SPEAKER_02: So to me, it's just digging into it.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: I love learning about how evolution has driven them to the point that they are.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: And can I take this what seems like an impossible plant to grow outside of its environment in my garden and understand everything that goes into the well-being, the health, and you know, keeping keeping this plant uh, you know, there for use, enjoyment, and just really understand.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: They're like experiments to me.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, each plant.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and there's a whole world of experiments and these entire worlds of you know, just a single plant.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: It has a history, it has a personality, it has you know so much that goes into its being, and the more I can learn about it, the the better.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: It's just I don't know, I just love it.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: It's fascinating.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: I I it it's awesome.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, I I love that that uh that description of growing plants as each one's kind of experiment.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: And when you think about it, it really is, especially if you're talking about planting from a seed and kind of understanding that the change that occurs when you're propagating new plants and like each one's different.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: And how does that work?
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Right?
7:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, yeah, it's I would agree, but I will admit I'm not very good with orchids at all.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: That's your that's your one.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: That's your Achilles.
7:28
SPEAKER_02: My Achilles eel is definitely orchids, and I'm I'm working on it.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm still working.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: I have a phalaenopsis right now that's been alive for about a year, but still has not bloomed, so I need to do some more research.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Why can't you grow orchids?
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just my track record with orchids.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: I can grow carnivorous plants, proteas, you know, cherimoyas and all kinds of exotic tropical fruit that shouldn't be able to grow here in plants and yet orchids.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: I can't do it.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: So I can.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: It's just I need to dedicate myself a bit more.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: What is your obsession with, and I love this obsession, but what is it about carnivorous plants that you are you just find so enjoyable?
8:11
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, the fact that this plant has evolved, it's not just a plant, it's a whole, you know, um, you know, community of plants, North American pitcher plants to tropical nepenthes, um, you know, Venus flytraps, they're so highly specialized.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: And with how much disruption we've you know caused on our planet and just destroyed our ecosystems, these plants have, you know, still persist.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: And that they've adapted to an environment that has absolutely no nutrients.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: They're not getting their nitrogen, their phosphorus, and other nutrients from the soil because it's delete and they deplete, and they've evolved mechanisms to get the nutrients they need by eating bugs.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, how cool is that?
8:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, having pitfalls and you know, having these different strategies of being able to capture, keep, dissolve, and absorb new nutrients, and to understand how diverse this kind of niche and approach to catching bugs is just fascinating.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: And I'm, you know, I I think the one thing that I had learned was, you know, the Venus flytrap.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Everybody thinks it grows in, you know, some tropical forests in the Amazon, and yet the only place in the world that it grows in the is in the Carolinas.
9:27
SPEAKER_02: And oh yeah, it's the only place it lives is is in the small band in the Carolinas.
9:33
SPEAKER_02: And you know, people buy them in the stores and say, oh look, I have a Venus flytrap that dies in six months, but it needs a required dormancy, right?
9:41
SPEAKER_02: It had it's used to in the wild, it gets cold, it dies back, it needs a dormancy.
9:45
SPEAKER_02: So all these people are getting, you know, Venus flytraps and they die, and then they just kind of you know, chuck them in the trash.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, put them in the refrigerator, and then in six months or two months, bring them back out and you can grow them again.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: And it's just just amazing these strategies to adapt to these types of environments.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: It's so fascinating.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: And even epiphytes, like most a lot of nepenthes are epithetic and they're just growing in trees.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: What does epiphytic mean?
10:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, they kind of function as epiphytes, meaning that they will rely on, you know, they'll suspend themselves in trees or in mosses, and they get nutrients um, you know, from sometimes from the surface of the trees and you know from uh you know different different areas in the in the uh ecosystem.
10:31
SPEAKER_02: But for the most part, they you know, they are have a unique trap system to take advantage of a wet, cool climate or warm climate, and you know, can get pretty high into canopies and you know be able to use their their pitchers as a really effective tool of catching bugs and sometimes even small mammals.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: It's just small mammals.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean that not I some of these pitchers can be quite large, and they have found that you know mice have fallen mice and other type of rodents have gotten in there.
11:05
SPEAKER_02: There's also studies and papers uh that look at some they found some small mammals actually kind of use them as toilets, which is a little crazy, and they actually have you know that you need to belong to the International Carnivorous Plant Society.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of really interesting stuff stuff on there.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: So I believe it.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: So and they can digest mice, a plant.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, digestion is it's essentially, you know, they have enzymes, they have bacteria, depends on the plant, and um, yeah, they are capable of breaking it down.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how well they break down bone, and it's certainly not a common thing for carnivorous plants to eat them, but it has been recorded finding them in in larger pictures.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm just picturing this mouse tail coming out of one of these plant traps.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I yeah, it's kind of crazy.
12:02
SPEAKER_02: I personally have never caught a mouse, and I hope not to catch a mouse in my my pictures and whether the nepenthes or the saracena, but yeah, they're pretty cool.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I but I find them fascinating.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: I like how they adapt.
12:16
SPEAKER_02: I like how they kind of have a unique morphology, unlike any other plants, and there's so few of them in the world, especially the North American pitchers, they're uh quite rare.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: The Californian um cobra plant is, you know, it's not endangered, but I think it's threatened.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: And that too is only in a very small band of Northern California, uh Southern Oregon.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: That was the the one that is that your favorite one?
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Or is that the way it was like I thought it was on the lost coast?
12:44
SPEAKER_02: I so for the cobra plants, I haven't been up there.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: There's one in uh Redwood National Park, which is quite uh quite big.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: It's the biggest one that I've been to.
12:53
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of other isolated bogs around there, but from what I understand, one of the biggest bogs is in uh southern Oregon on the west coast, uh near the the border of California.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's just um I think it's uh a state park there, and I can't remember the name of it offhand.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: But I hope to go there.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you will.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: That's fun.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: And so do you make it like an adventure to go out and find these plants in nature that you can.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, yes.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: So um a good friend of mine, Zenia, she uh we worked together at Stanford.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: She is also, she we both were doing human microbiome work together.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: And she was she accepted a position in Europe.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: And before she left, we spent uh two weeks together on kind of traveling and not backpacking, but hiking in Redwood National Park.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: So we stayed at a BB.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh while we're at the B, we fed, we talked to them.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: I want my goal was to find uh, you know, Darlingtonia, California, as much, you know, the California cut coca plant in as many places as I could.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: So I talked to the locals.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: They would give me draw me maps on, you know, on napkins and stuff, and then say, okay, if you drive down this road, go this road, go 10 minutes up, and you'll find it.
14:07
SPEAKER_02: And I found probably about, I don't know, 10 different blog sites that you know, just from word of mouth.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: And then I wrote them all on a map and I recorded where all these are.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, just so when I go back, I can check on them.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know, it's not like I'm measuring them, but I'm just no, no, no.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: I love the fact that I know these little secret pockets and I took pictures of them.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: I drew them.
14:30
SPEAKER_02: They were just it was fascinating.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: We spent our whole time hiking, looking for carnivorous plants.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: I want to see these drawings in this map.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: It's it is it is something really cool.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: And I find this an interesting thing about the natural world in general, is there's this appreciation that's that some people have and some people kind of don't, where like one person will look at, I don't know, something like a seagull.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Like you're at the ocean, you see a seagull, you see a fish or something, and one person says it and goes, Oh, just another fish, just another seagull.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: The other person goes, like, no, that's that's that one, right?
15:10
SPEAKER_00: And it's even more, it's much more apparent with something that's kind of rare in this bog that you had to found, but there's an appreciation for like individual organisms and in nature of like that's I don't know, does that make sense?
15:26
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I emphatically agree.
15:28
SPEAKER_02: You're talking to the girl who takes a field guide to the beach with her, right?
15:34
SPEAKER_02: I I I mean, I get it to me, you know, it's just a snail.
15:37
SPEAKER_02: Well, is it just a snail?
15:38
SPEAKER_02: There's all these different varieties of snails, and you know, maybe you know, there's something unique and specialized by you, you know, about each of them.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: And the same with the seagulls, it's you know, there's a huge variety of gulls out there, and just what seems like a conventional gull has a really interesting niche in that ecosystem, and it might be differing from a different type of gull or another.
16:00
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I I agree with you.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: To me, there's no plant or or animal that is just, you know, that's just a cat, that's just a you know, a tomato plant.
16:08
SPEAKER_02: That's I think they all have interesting stories.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: I love yeah, the idea of finding the story behind because the kind of the the biology behind any organism is really a story, and especially when you're talking about evolution, right?
16:23
SPEAKER_00: It's all it's one big story.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: One big Yeah, and they're huge worlds, right?
16:28
SPEAKER_02: It goes beyond just them because their environment impacts what they are and who they are, their you know, resources, uh, you know, the uh the the environment that they're in, presence or absence of people.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: It's just to me, it's all fascinating.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: And I just wish I could learn a much and retain all this, uh, you know, about every single thing.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I just kind of pick things and I tend to focus on them for you know a period of time and learn as much as I can.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: And I still keep them and I still pursue those hobbies, but I just other things catch my interest, like proteas right now are my my interests.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: So what's what's so important to you about learning everything you can about one of these plants?
17:09
SPEAKER_02: Um I just I love the stories, right?
17:13
SPEAKER_02: I it's so important because I think there's just more to it than it just being a plant.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, even my husband thinks I'm a little crazy with how obsessive I am of understanding and growing and cultivating and propagating and you know, doing that.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: And I think the more hands-on I can have in experimenting with it, the more I can learn.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: It's just I enjoy learning.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: And it just I feel like I have a personal relationship with the plant and you know, even with that seagull that flies by, because I'm like, I know about you, you're special.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: And not that the plant cares or anybody else cares, but I just really enjoy it.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: I like finding that specialness.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I like that about people too.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: I enjoy taking the time to understand and really get to know people, and it seems to like carry over into play.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: No, so yeah.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, it makes maybe it's it sounds like you kind of found this desire, this passion for really learning about something through nature, right?
18:13
SPEAKER_00: But then it became maybe more a part of your character as a whole.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: I would definitely say that.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have this obsessive nature.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's obsessive, but maybe it is.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: I like in microbiology, yeah.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it and I think that's one thing why academia works so well for me is that academia is this kind of blue sky approach to learning, and that you can go down these multiple paths and you know understand other aspects.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: You know, it started out like at Cornell, you know, looking at nitrogen fixing bacteria, and then that kind of built into well, what its relationship with plants, what its relationship with fungi, and what's its relationship with crops as a whole.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, to me, these are complete worlds to have an understanding on.
19:00
SPEAKER_02: And to be able to have all these pathways of learning, I absolutely love.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's why I stayed in academia as long as I did, is because it seemed to me learning was always limitless.
19:11
SPEAKER_02: There was no, you know, confinement on what I can learn in the paths I could go down.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: And there was always something interesting that I could dig into.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: Why did you leave then?
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think uh I think at one point it came down to just uh a lot of it was just funding.
19:29
SPEAKER_02: I was getting that I was on interesting projects, I would be on it for a year, two years, and you know, then kind of the money would go away and I would get on another project, which was fun.
19:39
SPEAKER_02: But then it was kind of after a while, it's like, well, I have my job in three months from now.
19:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's pretty heavy.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think you know, especially at the time we were thinking, oh, maybe we should, you know, get a house.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: Let's maybe decide to stay in the bay a bit longer.
19:53
SPEAKER_02: So that kind of pushed me into um, you know, industry.
19:57
SPEAKER_02: And I I do enjoy there, are definitely interesting routes and things to do in industry as well.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: I just don't find that it's as diverse as what you can get in academia.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: I wonder, did you I know you spent some time while you were backpacking?
20:12
SPEAKER_00: I think this was in our Ireland, right, where you were uh planting trees for probably trade trading for um for housing or something, I would imagine, as a backpacker.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it was in it was in Scotland.
20:25
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and it was just um, I was just kind of working, just trying to find work under the table.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: And at the time I heard that some of my friends that were also backpacking, they're like, oh, you can easily go and they're planting trees at this plantation up north.
20:41
SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, I'm in.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: So I would go up there and I just planted, I don't even honestly, I don't even remember what type of pine tree it was, but it was fast growing and you know, dense lumber, and I got paid for every tree that I put into a hole.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: So and I had earned enough money to go on to the next town and you know, either plant trees again at another place, 10 bar, wait tables, whatever I could.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever think about uh going into a more macro form of biology, farming or cultivating plants of any sort?
21:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I did.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: So my goal going, you know, when I was at Cornell, I was going to, I was really interested in the interaction of microbes and fungi, especially microbes, on uh plant interactions.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, maybe you can set up this kind of environment or know what type of soil environment is good to grow grapes.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: And at first I wanted to kind of say I'm from the finger lakes in upstate New York, which is all wineries, and I was like, oh, maybe I can apply my microbiology, you know, in viticulture and um, you know, just with the with the wine industry, but there wasn't much of an appetite there.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: So then I was like, well, I headed out to California hoping to get involved um more in that kind of stuff.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a whole story behind that in grad school and It's all this other stuff.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: So you don't have to get into it.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: I really didn't know that.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I thought you were, I mean, I knew you were actually well, it was interesting because in my head you went from it was psychology or biopsychology, right?
22:14
SPEAKER_00: It was like dealing with uh mice studies.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: But then I thought it I thought it was always about microbiology.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: I guess so science is microbiology to an extent.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, not really.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, part part of it was, I mean, my degree is in in biopsychology.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: And um I started out, I had a biopsychology degree.
22:34
SPEAKER_02: I felt I knew people really well and that um relationships were intuitive to me and understanding people was intuitive.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: So it was only natural for me to get some type of psychology degree.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh and when I started doing uh experiments and working in the lab, I was working with rats, and I found it absolutely fascinating that you know I studied Parkinson's disease, and once I understood that there's these kind of mechanisms that drive, you know, um mental illness and and disorders, I was just fascinated.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I worked as a counselor as a for a little while and there wasn't a lot of work in counseling.
23:14
SPEAKER_02: And then I heard at Cornell they were hiring somebody to uh do immunology lab support.
23:20
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, hey, I'm your girl, I don't know anything about it, I'll give it a go.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: And then I kind of started to get hooked in just you know, kind of the lab setting and and stuff.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: And I think I, you know, did that for a while, and it wasn't I it wasn't microbiology.
23:36
SPEAKER_02: I didn't get really pulled into it until Cornell when uh and Dan Buckley's lab.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: And I remember interviewing, I was a medical tech working in a health center, uh just you know, drawing blood on you know, students, like, I don't feel good, and you know, draw their blood, run it through the regular, you know, um, you know, checking to see what they have and different white blood cells, all this other stuff, a little bit of microbiology.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: But during my interview for this brand new professor, he's like, Yeah, so I'm setting up a lab and I'm gonna look at bacteria that fix nitrogen.
24:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, so you just cultured on a plate.
24:10
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, No, you can't culture it.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, but how do you know they're there?
24:15
SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Well, we're gonna extract DNA.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you're gonna what?
24:21
SPEAKER_02: And then we're gonna sequence it.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, this whole story he was telling me was like new.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: And I and I it was just fascinating.
24:28
SPEAKER_02: And I I remember leaving that interview, asking so many questions, learning about stromatolites and how you know these uh cyanobacteria transform the world to this oxygenated planet.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: And I got up and I said, Sir, Dr.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: Buckley, this is the best conversation I ever had.
24:45
SPEAKER_02: I really, you know, I find this fascinating.
24:48
SPEAKER_02: I would love to work for you.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: I I understand, you know, I probably am not the most qualified, but I appreciate you taking the time.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: He's like, no, thank you.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: And then like the next day I get a job offer.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: I was like, whoa, it was crazy.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: So cool.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think it helped that I would say he's probably one of my greatest mentors was Dan Buckley.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: And that he, you know, I was the first person in his lab, I managed his lab, I did all his experiments the first two years, year, two years.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: And um just he allowed me to take graduate classes at the same time.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: I was a full-time, you know, employee, and just you know, we taught together, we had to do outreach and you know, teach um uh high school students and you know, college student students and teachers and building curriculums and just bringing environmental microbiology into the classroom.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: And uh that was that was a good fit.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: And I think he was an amazing, amazing professor because he let me go down and just explore all these questions, yeah, which is great, and gave me the tools to do it, you know, the molecular biology tools plus the education at the same time.
25:56
SPEAKER_02: So I'm very fortunate for that.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: That man seriously transformed my life.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: And so did you just not look back, you're like, wow, this is this is cool.
26:06
unknown: Yeah.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was exactly it.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: So, like from Cornell, uh with working with Dan and just absolutely loving microbiology, I came out to California.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: A lot of other things happened too, but came out to California and I, you know, was working at I found a job at at Stanford, and part the first job I had at Stanford was working in um uh teaching lab.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: So undergraduate uh Bio 44 class was a requirement for all uh pre-med undergrads, and just kind of taking these environmental microbiology courses that we would do we developed at Cornell, bringing them into the curriculum for their students, and you know, working with teaching assistants, training them on those labs and you know, and developing this curriculum, which was fun.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but then I heard that they were looking at human microbiome in another lab, uh, and they were looking for a scientist that could essentially characterize uh bacteria that live in the gut.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, me, me, me.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: So uh, and part of it was is I spent you know five years at Cornell doing nothing but looking at the diversity and function of bacteria and soil, and wouldn't it be cool if I could apply it to the gut?
27:18
SPEAKER_02: So, and yeah.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: That's and so it sounds like I mean, it definitely in academia, it's all you always are teaching in some form or fashion, usually to it sounds like pay, it's like the agreement is you teach in order to get paid while you do research.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: Did you enjoy the teaching aspect of it, or was it always just kind of get that done so I can do research?
27:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, oh, I absolutely loved it.
27:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was super fun.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh when I was in the Sporeman lab at Stanford, uh, one thing that they had done is the Hopkins Marine Microbiology Lab, uh, which is down in Monterey, uh really close to the Monterey Bay Aquarium.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh Stanford has a research site there.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, it is pretty wicked.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: So they at the time there was a every year they had postdocs, I think it was mostly postdocs, maybe a couple of graduate students could sign up for this this course.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: And it was a, I think a two-week long course.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: And that, you know, he essentially had um the grad students, postdocs in our lab, and and then me uh support and to help run that.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of it was, you know, getting media, organizing experiments, making sure, you know, what we were looking at and our focus was in microbiology.
28:31
SPEAKER_02: And for our lab, um, we were really interested in cyanobacteria, we're interested in um looking at biofilms in particular.
28:40
SPEAKER_02: So we spent a lot of time in um elkhorn SLU, taking SLU samples with all those interesting layers, and then bringing you know students out there.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was led by you know my professors, but for the most part, we were there to you know work and supplement and help them, you know, do that.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: We do everything from you know getting collecting samples um and then putting, you know, looking at these sections of biofilms, for example, extracting DNA.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: You know, what do you do?
29:08
SPEAKER_02: How do you sequence it?
29:09
SPEAKER_02: How do you analyze that data?
29:10
SPEAKER_02: Essentially teaching them in a two-week uh course, uh crash course, all these different approaches to environmental microbiology, how to characterize it, how to look at function, how to look at identity, how to you know culture them.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was it was amazing, absolutely amazing.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: It was fun because again, I got to apply that.
29:28
SPEAKER_02: It was only two weeks out of the year, it's a lot of work building into it.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Sure, yeah.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I have tons of things to say about that.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: First off, and you this was with medical students.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: No, so these are all um environmental microbiology postdocs and graduate students.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: So they're from around the world.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: We only had maybe 10.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say it must be pretty cool taking a group of people who maybe aren't the most don't spend a ton of time in, you know.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I don't know, maybe a lot of doctors do, but taking them to Elkworth and Saloo because just that's one of the coolest places, you know, around here and opening their eyes to that.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh I that's like one of the first places I take people in the Bay Area when they're not from here because it's just the most wonderful place.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: I would emphatically agree.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: But also, it sounds like then it was it was really rewarding for you to kind of help other people understand these things that you were so passionate about.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I absolutely love teaching.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, even when people come over to my house, whether they like it or not, and I, you know, they all they have to do is mention like, what is that?
30:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, really?
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Because I am happy to tell you all about this plant.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: So many times I have to curb my enthusiasm and kind of pull it back a bit because I have to I have to remind myself that not everybody is as intrigued with plants or objects or you know things as as I am.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: That's fair to an extent, but at the same time, I feel like and I I understand that there's a balance, but I I know I think people definitely feed off of your enthusiasm for this stuff because you really do truly love it.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and it makes other people love it.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I just think the whole world is interesting.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: There's so many things to learn.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: And if there's little pieces of it that I can share that I find interesting with other people, then I'm totally happy to share.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: It's it's fun, it's part of why I love teaching so much.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: I I think it's super fun.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, anybody who's willing to listen to me and what I know, I'm happy to share.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Did you ever think about applying for teaching positions?
31:38
SPEAKER_02: Um I mean, after I after I graduated, uh I had done some uh just teaching in in uh high school in Watkins Glen in my hometown.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: And I was a substitute teacher, which I expect is a lot different experience than in a real teacher.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: But I really I enjoyed teaching high school in elementary school, middle school not so much.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: And um yeah, I I I definitely contemplated that at a time, but I you know what kind of led me away from that is I there was I felt there was so much more that I wanted to learn in my life, and I wasn't ready to kind of especially then just to pick a you know what I and even now I don't feel like I'm a defined you know career.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, I've been a microbiologist studying soil, then I went to studying, you know, microbes in the gut, and then from that I worked at UCFS doing cancer, and then from that I worked doing um engineering at you know um uh engineering at a startup and manipulating the genome of a microbe to do our bidding.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: And then from that I worked in a you know a lab, you know, like at Genia.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: And then I'm like, okay, how do I get DNA onto this weird sequencer?
32:55
SPEAKER_02: And you know, then somebody asked, hey, can you like teach people how to do science?
33:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I don't even I don't even think of myself as just a microbiologist.
33:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, really, I have a psychology degree and I don't even consider myself a you know a psychology person.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: So it's cool.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it makes sense for someone who's so curious to to it's like you it's like how you kind of describe your relationship with plants is you pick one up and you learn as much about it as you can, and then you know, a couple months later you know all about it or you know a lot about it, and then with that knowledge you kind of take it and move on to a a new new place, right?
33:36
SPEAKER_00: I think that's exciting because it kind of leaves the next chapter untold, right?
33:41
SPEAKER_02: Yep, I'm all about randomness and you know I yeah, once it becomes predictable, I I just I have to search for something new and something different.
33:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: No, I I I I I emphatically agree with that as well.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: It's I don't it's interesting.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't exactly know what it is though about in I I just assume that because it's because I'm 25, I'm just supposed to not be able to commit to things.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: But I I can't really see myself ever committing to one career, one path like for the rest of my life.
34:21
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't sound I feel the same way.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you shouldn't.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: I don't think you have to, and I think what's interesting is you know, my husband, who's a physicist, you know, he know he has known he wanted to be a physicist since high school.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: And he has followed that path, you know, uh to be a physicist since he's been 15 years old.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: And he's a physicist, and this has been his career.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: And even though he's gone from, you know, you know, essentially studying accelerators and designing, you know, um uh colliders, super colliders, uh, you know, linear hadron collider and other colliders, you know, he jumped and you know, he's working on the Kepler mission.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: So at least he's applying, you know, and he's applying it in different ways.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: And I think he gets a satisfaction out of it.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: But I I find him far more stable in at least staying in physics.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: And for me, I guess in a way, I still stay in molecular biology a little bit.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I I I think I think I need to shift a lot more often than than he does to stay engaged and be happy with my work.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: What is it about shifting?
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Is it about being happy with your work?
35:29
SPEAKER_00: Or is it just about getting bored with the old work?
35:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, well, I think I think happiness is, you know, for me, I find that I enjoy that, especially that period of when you're learning new things, trying and applying what you know to improve it or understand more about it.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: And then once it becomes just mundane and it's just the same thing every day, you're not really learning anything.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, you don't, yeah, I don't find it as fulfilling uh sometimes.
36:01
SPEAKER_02: And and for the, you know, it's just I I like to take what I know and apply it in a very different way.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: And I I've kind of found, at least looking in my career path historically, I've managed to go about five years at most in any position.
36:17
SPEAKER_02: And I'm at I've been at Roche for a little over five years right now.
36:21
SPEAKER_02: So who knows?
36:22
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the good thing is there's opportunities within Roche too, that you can kind of go into completely different aspects of such a massive company, yeah.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, even just in the five years I've been at Roche, I've you know shifted what I do pretty profoundly within the company, going from global customer support to case investigation resolution.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: And and I think that helps.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: Just as long as I feel I can learn something new and apply what I know in a different way, it makes me happy.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: No, it's and it I think it's from an outside perspective, I feel like that's probably pretty cool to be able to say that definitively, right?
36:58
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people out there who are just constantly searching for something that will make them happy in a way or bring them fulfillment.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: And maybe you can't say like this is what it's gonna happen, but you know that diving into a new subject matter, into a new field really makes you happy.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: That's super cool.
37:20
SPEAKER_02: That is, I definitely feel that way.
37:23
SPEAKER_02: And and yeah, and it's part of the reason.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't think in my parents' time that anybody over the course of what um you know 15 years would jump from, you know, not just job to job, but jump from specialty to specialty, right?
37:39
SPEAKER_02: That you go from one field to another field, completely different field, you know, um soil to gut to cancer to biotech, from and yeah, and I like having that flexibility.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: And it also gives me, especially in the Bay Area, you know, if I was just a specialist and I did absolutely nothing but nitrogen fixing bacteria, then I'm limiting myself, right?
38:02
SPEAKER_02: I can be the expert, absolute expert in that field.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: And I had the opportunity to do that, and you know, I kind of chose to, you know, diversify and to learn about as much as I could and apply what I knew in different ways, but teach their own.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: No, it is teach their own.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: It's a different for everyone.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: I empathize with your point of view more than the other, I would imagine, or I think.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's it's exciting, honestly, to see that not only kind of reflectively for me, because I don't expect my path to be linear, but also for you, because it, you know, it it it kind of it's like, well, what's next?
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's all this opportunity, and there's like you said, everything in the world is a story and it's kind of an exploration, but there's so much opportunity out there to go learn things if for people who are willing, right?
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I mean for me, I think I'm fortunate that I'm in a place that um, you know, in Silicon Valley, and what I know, if I decide I want to apply this at a startup or I want to apply this in you know a company in another country, that I, you know, I have the flexibility and knowledge and adaptability to learn quickly and to, you know, be willing to really shift gears in my focus and to become an expert in something I was never an expert in before and take that risk.
39:26
SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people may find that intimidating.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, what if I'm not the best?
39:31
SPEAKER_02: Or what if I, you know, jump into this and it's harder than I think.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: And to me, I'm willing to find out and take that risk just for the opportunity to learn something new.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: That's courageous.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: No, it's a big deal.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a big thing, and I I fundamentally appreciate this at my age coming out of college where you come from a place where you kind of have a a bit of a path, but it's it's kind of terrifying to jump into a a new world out of 20 years of schooling, right?
40:02
SPEAKER_00: And it's this kind of risk of failure that comes with entering any new field.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: And entering the job market is entering the new field, I would say.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: But I think it's probably especially relevant.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like people get pretty stuck in their careers or in their jobs, even if they don't really find fulfillment in them.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: And one of the main obstacles is I wouldn't call it insecurity, but it's like this fear of not being able to do as well in another field.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: It's scary.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: And having that courage to do something different and that isn't predictable.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: And I think uh, you know, you know, right now with my position, I think there's a lot of crazy that goes on in a way, as stressful as it is, I enjoy it.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: Uh but at the same time, the the predictability of it is is what I dislike about it the most.
40:56
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I know I have meetings from seven in the morning until five at night, and you know, I know the content, what's gonna be in there, and I can be I'm a creative problem solver, so it's good that I can apply my myself in that, but I don't always find that I'm the learning is there, and that's kind of where you know, when I start finding that this learning isn't happening, then and that's when I I start, you know, looking in other directions, you know, within the company, outside of the company, just yeah, whatever opportunities are out there.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: And I'm willing to take that risk, you know, even if I've never done it before.
41:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think for me, the biggest jump was probably coming from you know, spending five, ten years in microbiology and then jumping into cancer, knowing absolutely nothing about oncology and then heading up a lab, you know, and developing an essay on something I knew very little about and just relied on, you know, my knowledge of molecular biology and what I thought would be a good collaboration with some phenomenal doctors at UCSF and you know, working with a really great PI who was fantastic.
41:58
SPEAKER_02: It was a great risk.
41:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm happy I did it.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Was uh when I mean, how did you before you made that commitment?
42:04
SPEAKER_00: What did it feel like?
42:05
SPEAKER_00: And then what did it feel like when you like maybe we're a year in?
42:08
SPEAKER_02: Were you more confident or less confident as um actually I I was very confident that I even though I've never done this, you know, thing before, you know, developed an uh a cancer essay before, I knew what would go into it.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: And even though it's not microbes, it's still DNA.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: So I felt okay, well, I'll I I don't think it was it was a big jump, but I I was a little hesitant, but I knew it was a great opportunity to learn a lot.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: And I did, I learned tons about um, and it was in a derm path, a dermatology pathology lab, and just understanding more about uh melanomas and cancer and you know immunology and how this all relates back, and you know, just all kinds of elements that drive into into you know cancer.
43:01
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, how the how you can interrogate DNA to answer those questions and how you can interrogate proteins to help understand these answers and bring treatment to the patients in a more comprehensive way.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: And this was very, very new, you know, working with patients.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: I'm used to working with you know bacteria, if they die, whatever to bacteria, right?
43:23
SPEAKER_02: But when you're developing a test or you know, an essay for patients to be put into you know a diagnostic or a CLIA lab, it was a lot more pressure.
43:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think it helped that my professor, you know, who hired me to put this lab together and develop this essay, had you know, a lot of he he made sure that the financial support was there, the infrastructure is in there, and the resources I need to do my job were there.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: So he took care of the stresses that could have been taken care of.
43:52
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
43:53
SPEAKER_02: He he was he did it, it was a good experience.
43:56
SPEAKER_02: And when I when I would finish the project, um I left.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: Feeling like I can't believe, well, yeah, I can't believe I just did that.
44:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I knew I did just do that, but I was like, hey, now I'm a k a cancer person.
44:09
SPEAKER_02: Who would have thought?
44:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that must that must be such a fun memory looking back on on coming out of that experience.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, also jumping in, the courage to jump in is is cool, but the ability to overcome that is really so exciting to hear about.
44:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was I I'm all about taking chances.
44:32
SPEAKER_02: It's all about taking risks and um yeah, having the courage to do that.
44:37
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's much harder.
44:38
SPEAKER_02: It'd been much harder for you know Jeff, my husband, than it had been for me.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, he's usually my temperedness that has me think about things a little bit more than what I would do ordinarily.
44:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I I think he helps to balance me out a bit.
44:56
SPEAKER_02: It's probably why I've stayed at my job as long as I am right now for five years.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, my impulse is definitely just to take risks and to learn.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: No, this might sound uh a little too philosophical, but I I guess what I wonder is what is the purpose in your head of taking risks?
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Like why is it important to you?
45:20
SPEAKER_02: Um well, I I want to I want to think that what I'm doing is important.
45:27
SPEAKER_02: And even if it's not important to, you know, the patient or to the world of microbiology, then I want to feel that I have I I'm having an impact, right?
45:37
SPEAKER_02: That if there's a purpose to this effort, there's a purpose to what I'm I'm doing.
45:42
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and I like, and that's kind of what what drives me, and that I'm willing to do something or apply myself in a way I haven't before just to have you know the chance of having an impact and learning and to do more.
45:59
SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's just I don't find risk scary.
46:02
SPEAKER_02: I can't say you can't don't find risk scary.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: There's certainly things I would never do.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I you know, and I and I know you know this is you know, being after the the car accident I had that really changed my perspective.
46:16
SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to spend the rest of my life accepting mediocrity, right?
46:21
SPEAKER_02: That it was okay when I was, you know, 20, 24, 23, that I graduated from college and I'm gonna wait tables or I'm gonna do that's good enough.
46:31
SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to spend my life just doing things that are good enough.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I decided that, you know, when I was like 24 or 25 and I went backpacking and I want to make sure that I can I do as much as I can in this lifetime, that I learn as much as I can in this lifetime and have the you know the biggest impact, not so much notoriety, but just on you know personally personal fulfillment is what I want.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
47:03
SPEAKER_00: You have me wanted to go around a marathon, Daryl.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: No, it's so exciting to hear that.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: I love that perspective, and it's it's it's such a it totally makes sense, right?
47:19
SPEAKER_00: From my perspective, looking at you like you're a risk taker.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: And it it shows in jumping and going backpacking a bit of a jump, it shows in your career path and kind of what excites you is taking risks.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: That's maybe why it's not a linear path, right?
47:38
SPEAKER_00: And that I think is also a form of success, is like that ability to take risks and then the excitement that comes with them maybe makes life a little more fun, and maybe that's a part of happiness, right?
47:51
SPEAKER_02: But it's it totally makes it more fun.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: And I would I would totally agree, is just you know, I don't know what's gonna happen.
47:59
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, you know, when I, you know, joins when I join UCSF, will I fail?
48:05
SPEAKER_02: There's you know, there's a good chance I'll fail because I know nothing about oncology, and I'm trusting that these people will be willing to share what they know with me so I can get to that level and that I can apply this tool, and it was willing to take that risk.
48:17
SPEAKER_02: And then I walked away learning something.
48:19
SPEAKER_02: I walked away, you know, handing off an essay to a diagnostic lab and be like, all right, it's good to go, you know, and that was very satisfying.
48:29
SPEAKER_02: And there's all kinds of these little things I I can guarantee.
48:32
SPEAKER_02: UCSF is does not say Teryl Nelson, you know, design helped to develop this essay, and you know, she validated, verified, you know, got everything.
48:42
SPEAKER_02: No, nobody, I can guarantee nobody even knows my name there anymore.
48:45
SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
48:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't need that.
48:47
SPEAKER_02: It's just I enjoy it because it was a learning experience, and even though it only lasted a couple years, I enjoyed every single moment of it.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: And I liked being that expert for that period of time that I could learn as much as I possibly could about it and apply it in a real way.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: I want to thank Terrell for that fantastic conversation.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: Her energy is so contagious and her take on life is inspiring.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: She embodies this really passionate curiosity that I find so fun to be around and try to bring into my own life.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: Likewise, her career so far teaches a great lesson.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: That if you are at heart an adventurer and you're willing to work hard and learn in a new environment, you can make work an adventure too.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: I loved her answer to those questions.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Well, what if I'm not the best?
49:38
SPEAKER_00: Or what if I jump into this and it's harder than I think?
49:42
SPEAKER_00: That the real risk, the thing that makes you better, is just being willing to find out.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: It makes me want to find out what risks I'm willing to take.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: And maybe it does for you too.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: If you like this episode of Seeking Authenticity, that's freaking awesome.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: All I want to ask of you, the listener, in return for the time and effort I put into making it, is that you take a deep breath.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean really breathe.
50:13
SPEAKER_00: Breathe so that it stretches out your shoulders and your back and your chest and pushes out your stomach.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: No more of these shallow, bullshit breaths.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: They're barely keeping you alive, my friend.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: And after you exhale, you out and soak up today.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: Because in the end, your actions and the way they interact with the world and the people around you right now are all you have in this life.
50:35
SPEAKER_00: So be authentic with them.