Latest / Hell and Gone: Murder Line / Hell and Gone Murder Line: Rebekah Gould Update

Transcript

Hell and Gone Murder Line: Rebekah Gould Update · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: School of Humans. I'm Catherine Townsend.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Over the past five years making my true crime podcast
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Helen Gone, I've learned there's no such thing as a
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: small town where murder never happens. I've received hundreds of
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: messages from people all around the country asking for help
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: their communities. And now they have a new way to
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: reach out. If you have a case you'd like me
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: and my team to look into, you can reach out
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: seven eight seven four four six ' one four five.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: That's six seven eight seven four four six ' one
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: four or five. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. As
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: you know, we're launching a new series, but I can't
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: start something new without returning to the case that started
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: at all on Hele Gone and the case that changed
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: my life forever, the murder of Rebecca Gould. The case
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: file was finally released in full a few months back,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: and since then I have spent countless hours, many of
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: them very late at night, reviewing it. As most of
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: you know, in October of twenty twenty two, William Billy
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Miller was convicted of Rebecca's murder. He was sentenced to
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: forty years in prison, which means that he will almost
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: certainly spend the rest of his life behind bars. I
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: am very happy that a violent killer and sexual predator
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: has been taken off the streets, and I absolutely believe
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: that Billy Miller was responsible for Rebecca's murder, at least partially.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Side note here. When I did my last update episode,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I mentioned that I was upset that the prosecutor hadn't
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: kept his word to release the case file to doctor
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Larry Gould, Rebecca's father before it became public. So back
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: in December, I was put in this very surreal situation
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: of having filed a freedom of information request and then
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: being one of the first people in the state to
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: have the entire case file, and then of having to
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: call Larry and break the news to him that his
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: daughter's autopsy photos were now public. But shortly after that,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I got a call from Mike McNeil of the Arkansas
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: State Police. Mike asked that I set the record straight.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: He said the prosecutor was a friend of his and
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: had done excellent work, and that the case file being
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: made public was an o recite by his office. And
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: not by the prosecutor's office. I do appreciate the hard
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: work that the prosecutor's office did and the fact that
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: they put Billy Miller behind bars where he belongs. And
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I've always said this podcast is not meant to be
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: anti law enforcement. They have a hard job to do.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I've always believed that Mike McNeil did an amazing job
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: on this investigation, especially what he had to work with
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: after his predecessors finished with the case. So I did
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: want to make sure to get that message across. So
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: the case file is out, Billy Miller's been convicted, But
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: as I said before, reading through this massive case file
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: has not changed my opinion. I still feel like Billy
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Miller's conviction is not the end of the story. While
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I was waiting for the case file to come out,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: there was a lot going on behind the scenes. Myself
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: and a lot of other people, including private investigator Jennifer
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Buckoltz who started the Facebook group Unsolved Murder, Rebecca Gould,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: and the journalist and author George Jarrett, and a lot
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: of other people have been following up on leads. So
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: once again I went back to the very beginning, back
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: to one of the very first conversations I had with Taylor,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: who was my producer in season one. This was back
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen. I was just starting out on this case.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I was living alone in my grandmother's cabin in the woods,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: and after going on local public radio, I was getting
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: a lot of random tips. People were calling and texting.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Hundreds of tips flooded in, so to keep track of them,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: we would talk about these pieces of information that we'd
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: gotten and decide which one seemed credible. We did our
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: best to run down every single tip we got until
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: we either got to a dead end or a point
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: where we decided we need to investigate further.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let me go back to these tips.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: All right, just heard you on KWOZ with Gary, and
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to let you know that on that Saturday,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: on the weekend Rebecca was killed, my family and I
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: lived right beside them, and we all set out at
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: my brother in law's house all day and not sure
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: what time it was, but it was in the afternoon.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: There was a little dark blue car with a guy
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: and a woman that came by and went up to
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: the barn, right past the trailer. The guy got out
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: and I thought he was going to use the bathroom,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: but he went to the back of the car, put
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: on like jogging pants and got a weeded her out
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: and weeded it a little bit. Rebecca came out on
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: the porch when they drove back by and stopped, and
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: she went to the end of the porch and said,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: did you get it done? And he said yes, and
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: they drove off. They had Texas tags on the car.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Then a little while later, Rebecca came out to her car,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: opened the door and got something out and went back
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: inside the trailer. She was wearing a gray tank top
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: and a pair of gray sweatpants. We did tell the
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Arkansas State Police, and not sure it has anything to
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: do with anything. It was just really strange because he
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: only weeded for maybe about fifteen minutes or so, not
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: long at all, and it was where the old barn is.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Just thought it was strange and never seen the guy before.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: He had black hair and was young looking. Couldn't really
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: see the woman.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: So there it is.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Billy Miller and his family were there the whole time,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: lurking in the background. Linda Miller told police that she
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: and Jeremy were at Casey's trailer that weekend that was them,
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: that little blue car with the Texas plates, and the
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: young man with the black hair was Jeremy Miller. Now,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Billy Miller has claimed that he acted alone. He said
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: no one in his family or anyone else had any
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: idea what he did.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: He said that he was a monster.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: But I made a promise to Rebecca way back when
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I started this investigation that I was going to keep
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: digging until I'm satisfied that I have answered the question
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: of what really happened to Rebecca Gould in September two
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: thousand and four in that tiny trailer in the backwoods
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: of Guyan I want to focus on facts. I'm really
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: not here to focus on again. What are the well
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: documented and factual what I believe to be catastrophic mistakes
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: made by the previous investigator on the case, Dennis Simon's.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: But I do want to take a second to talk
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: about the Dateline episode, the one that aired covering Rebecca
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Gould's case, because a lot of people have asked me
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: about it. While the episode was pretty factual, there's no
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: easy way to say this. Dennis Simon's blatantly lied in
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: that episode, and it made me sick to watch the
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: b roll of him typing his computer, acting like he
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: was really busy, and then staring out at a body
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: of water as if he was pondering the case as
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: HELLNGNG listeners know this is the exact opposite of what
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: happened as usual. There was a story behind the story
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: about the dateline episode. For the past three years, I've
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: been talking to a producer at forty eight hours, a
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: rival program. A few months ago, she called me with
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: some disturbing information. She let me know that when she
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: called the Arkansas State Police to say that forty eight
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: hours wanted to run an episode about Rebecca's case, the
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Arkansas State Police told forty eight hours that if they
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: talked to me or George Jared or Jennifer Bucklet, and
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: they mentioned all three of us, unprompted by name, that
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: they would not participate in the program.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: The producer refused.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: She said that that type of request was a violation
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: of First Amendment rights. I also want to make it
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: clear that the one exception to this was Mike McNeil,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: because the producer told me when she talked to Mike
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: that he did agree to do an interview even if
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: they talked to us. He was fine with the producer
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: speaking to me, George and Jennifer as long as we
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: were asked the tough questions, which obviously is fine with me.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: I talked to the Dateline producer at length. I shared
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: information with them, just like I do with everyone. And
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I do wonder why, if there were no condition, why
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't have had not just me, but other people
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: on for interviews, why they would have aired pieces from
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the podcast without giving me the courtesy of allowing me
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: to comment. I was very disappointed that someone like Dennis
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Simon's was given airtime and that the Arkansas State Police
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: was allowed to paint this narrative of him working diligently
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: on the case for years, because everyone who listens to
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: this podcast should know that's just not what happened. I
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: called him in several lives on the show. First, he
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: said that after I brought in the witness statement from
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: the person who told me that Casey had confessed to
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Rebecca's murder, and he read details that no one else knew,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Dennis said that he immediately understood how serious this was.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: He left out the part about how he refused to
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: take evidence, and you can see this in the case file.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: When he did go to reinterview some people who were
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: involved in Casey's ALBI, rather than any in depth interviews,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: he literally sent them their own statements that they had
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: made back in two thousand and four, asked them if
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: anything had changed, and when they said no, he moved on.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: His so called interviews were all done in around five minutes.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: What really happened over and over was me and other
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: people going in to try and give Dennis evidence and
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: him refusing to take it. He didn't want to see
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: anything that didn't incriminate Chris Cantrell, who we now know
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: had nothing to do with Rebecca's death. Dennis told me
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: over and over he was making sure that Chris Cantrell
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: did life on the installment plan by putting him in
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: prison as often as possible. I urge everyone out there
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: to do a Foyer request for yourself and read the
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: entire case file, because you don't need to take my
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: word for it. The work or lack of work he
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: did over a fifteen year period will speak for itself.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I really loved Dateline, but in this case, I think
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: the producer users made a bad call by allowing Dennis
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Simons to have a platform. We have fought so hard
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: to tell the truth about what was going on during
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: his time as lead investigator in this case. I really
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: feel that making it seem like he's working diligently behind
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: the scenes does a massive disservice to everyone out there
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: trying to deal with potentially incompetent or corrupt investigators. Let's
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: get back to Rebecca's case. Once Mike McNeil took over,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: he testified at the pre trial hearings that after looking
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: at the case file, he came to the same conclusion
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: that we did in the podcast. The cleanup scene at
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Casey's home indicated that Casey McCulla or someone connected to
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: him and to that trailer killed rebeccah Gould. So Mike
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: went back to the beginning to see if there was
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: something or someone that law enforcement had missed, and soon
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: he saw what the neighbors told us on the podcast,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: that Billy Miller, Casey's cousin, came to town right before
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Rebecca was murdered, and that he left right afterward. I'm
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: sure he also noticed that Casey mentioned Billy coming to
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: the house in his first interview with police and then
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: never mentioned him again, even once investigators specifically asked Casey
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: for a list of people who had been inside the
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: house and outside it. Billy did not make Casey's list.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: Going to conduct an interview with Casey McCullough.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Mike interviewed Casey in twenty twenty.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: It is September the eighteenth, twenty twenty, approximately ten am.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: We're in Melbourne, Arkansas.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Mike started out by asking Casey to drive him over
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: to the area of Wolf Farm, where Casey's grandparents used
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: to live. This was also the place where Linda, Jeremy
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and Billy Miller's stayed when they were in town. He
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: was friendly and approachable and kept Casey talking.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Little Bill William his birth name is William Alma Miller,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: that he goes by little Bill Bill. Okay, he came
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: up to help Linda and Jeremy move back to Texas.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: Okay, now I'm starting to yeah, Okay, ring a bell.
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: So in his statement, he said that the first thing
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: he did when he got up here to Melbourne, to
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: Izard County was that he visited family and spent time
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: with his mom. So my thinking is is that he
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: was at the grandparents' house visiting like he said he was.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Whenever you showed up to give Claude your truck. Okay,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: how else it doesn't make sense to me. How else
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: would you know that that was little Bill out on
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: the dirt road just by looking out the window, unless
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: you had seen him just hours before. This is so
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: long ago, Yeah, I know, but I mean, just try
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: to try to have that what I'm saying, I think
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: makes makes sense. I don't know how because by your statement,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: you said, Rebecca looked out the window and saw somebody
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: on the road, and then you looked out the window
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: and noticed that it was little Bill. How would you
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: have known that that was little Bill unless you had
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: seen Little Bill earlier? And little Bill says he was
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: visiting family, so it makes sense to me that he
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: was probably at the grandparents' house whenever you dropped your
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: truck off. Right, that makes sense.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: I feel like, I mean, it was so long ago,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: but yeah, I mean I feel like I recognized him.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: I knew it was him. But yeah, like as far
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: as what he was driving then I can't tell you
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: or anything like that, but I knew what he looked
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: like and wright and all that, and only has to
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: do winded down.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: Well because I want to say it well.
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: I'm gonna be honest with you. I mean, you're you're
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: telling me all this stuff and it's it's hard to remember. Yeah,
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: you're telling stuff that I know that is he telling me?
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: The truth is that you're actually telling me yeah I
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: said this, or I'm not.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: I'm not trying to get you, uh hemmed up and
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: put words in your mouth. I'm just I'm just going
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: to got a job to do. Well, I know, I know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: mm hmm.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: One of the first things that I ever said on
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Hell Gone was that Monday morning is a weird time
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: for a murder. Mike challenges Casey about this, about the
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: fact that whoever killed Rebecca would presumably have had to
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: know that Casey wasn't there, that there was no forced entry,
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: and that this person hung around and cleaned up the scene.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: Well, you know what we talked about before is whoever
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: did this knew that you were at work without a vehicle,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: and they knew Claude was out of state on a run.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: They knew and they knew Rebecca was there. That those
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: are the three things that this person knew.
• 16:29
  Speaker 7: Who is that?
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's that's That's not very many people. And I'm
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: I'm just going through theories and I'm going through I'm
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: processing the information that I have. Billy is one of
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: those people, Jeremy is one of those people with without
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: a without a doubt in my mind. So you know,
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I just have to I need to process anybody that.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: And another thing, you know, there wasn't forced entry to
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: the trailer. You said on multiple times that when Rebecca
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: told you, the last thing she told you was that
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: she was going back to the trailer to go to
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: bed and that she was going to sleep all day
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: until she had to come pick you up. And you
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: also said that any time Rebecca was there by herself,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: especially if she was sleeping, she's dead bolt that front door,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: because you, on multiple occasions showed up and had to
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: knock and knock and knock to get her to come
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: unlock that dead bolt. That's a statement you made just
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: in one of your first, first or second interviews. You
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: made that known. Well, without there being forced entry into
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: the home, who has access to to that who has
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: that key to that dead bolt? You made it known
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: in your interviews that there are only two people that
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: had access to that key, Claude and your grandpa. Okay, okay,
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: well again it could. It is a possibility that Jeremy
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: or Billy took that key from your grandpa, unbeknownst to
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: your grandpa, without your grandpa's knowledge. Jeremy and Billy were
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: both into marijuana back then, into drugs. Both of them
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: were a mess, were heathens back then.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: It's a little hard to hear, but Casey once again
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: suggests to Mike that it could be JB. Chris Cantrell,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: or Jennifer Turner, all names we've heard before, and he
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: blames the podcast. He says during this interview that the
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: podcast reported that there was a man and a woman
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: at his house over the weekend. Mike kind of shuts
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: him down there. He says, no, that pulled LEAs had
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: talked to the neighbors and that it was in the
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: case file.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: The neighbors saw.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: A man and woman there over the weekend. It wasn't
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: just erroneous reporting by the podcast.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Is there's nothing else that I can help you with?
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: Is there I feel like there is, but I know
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: you don't want to tell me anything.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: What are you talking about?
• 19:26
  Speaker 8: I don't know.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: I just I was the one that was that was
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: hanging out with her. You know real close to her.
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: So if somebody's saying something that I know is false
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: in their line, you know other suspects. I know you,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: you gotta be careful, but you know I mean JB,
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: Chris Control, Jennifer Turner. I'm I'm still on a different
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: place than I know your I know y'r. But what
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: what I had the most motive was Jennifer. Unless you
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: want to watch the podcast, then it's me.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Remember, Rebecca went missing on September twentieth, two thousand and four,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: after dropping Casey off at work early that morning, And
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: as you all know, one of the big questions we've
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: had this entire time was about Casey stopping at home
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: on Tuesday morning before work. Casey has always said he
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: never went home on Monday night. He went out with
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: his friends and stayed over at Laryn's house. But one
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: of the big questions we've always had was about Casey
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: stopping at home on Tuesday morning before work. We wondered
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: how he could have stopped at the house and walked
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: through that trailer with blood on the floors and all
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: of Rebecca's stuff there and not know something was wrong.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: And the case file does not clear this up. In fact,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: it makes this story even stranger because when Mark Colling's Worth,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: one of the original Arkansas State Police investigators on the case,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: talked to Casey on September twenty second, two thousand and four,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Casey told Mark that he went home twice on Tuesday morning. Now,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Casey
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: said he went to work early, before eight am. He
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: said he called Rebecca's mom and she said she hadn't
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: seen Rebecca. He said at that point he told his boss,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Bruce Shipman, that he wanted to go home to grab
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: a fresh shirt. He said this was kind of an excuse,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: just to check on things at home. Bruce said he
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: was gone for forty five minutes to an hour and
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: then came back to work, but he didn't stay at
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: work long. Just a few minutes later, he told his
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: boss he was going to need the day off. He
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: was worried about Rebecca. He wanted to see what was
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: going on at home, so he left and on the
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: way home, he was pulled over by Charlie Melton, the
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: officer who had been sent to the trailer to do
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: the welfare check by Rebecca's mother. Now, when they got
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: to the trailer. Charlie Melton's report, which we can finally
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: read after all these years, said that Casey went with
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: him into the back bedroom where he and Rebecca had
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: been sleeping. When they went in there, they saw that
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: the bed had been stripped, and Casey made a comment
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: about how he was surprised by that. Then Charlie asked
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: him if he could look in the washing machine, which
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: they did. That's when Charlie saw the bloody bedding in there.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: But in a separate interview that Casey did the day before,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: this time with special Agent David Lafferty, Casey said that
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: on that first trip home, when he went to get
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a shirt, that he did look inside the washing machine
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: before coming back with Charlie Melton. So if that was true,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: why did Casey act surprised about the sheets being off
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: the bed and how could he have missed the blood
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: in that washing machine if he did look in it.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Remember these are not interviews taking place years later. This
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: was literally two days after Rebecca went missing. In my opinion,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: those crime scene photos make it very hard to belie
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: that anyone could have walked into that trailer and not
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: known something was horribly wrong. There was blood everywhere all
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: over the carpet smeared around the trailer. There were obvious
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: signs that someone had tried to clean up. Casey also said,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: by the way that the back door was padlocked when
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: he left for work. Now that door had been kicked out.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Billy Miller later told investigators that's how he dragged Rebecca's
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: body out of the house. He kicked the back door
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: out and threw her body over the fence. So we're
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: supposed to believe not only did Casey not notice any
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: of the blood, but that he didn't notice his back
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: door had been kicked out. I also studied the early
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: interviews with the neighbors, because they, in my opinion, were
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: the key to this case. They told police something else
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: that was very interesting. They said that over the weekend
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: they saw several people out there on the porch, not
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: just Casey and Rebecca with a revisit from Billy, as
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Casey claimed. They said on Saturday night, there were four
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: or maybe five guys on the porch, all young men
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: and Rebecca. So who were these guys? When I started
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: this case, One of the first things that Laryn McClure,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: who was a huge help to me, by the way
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: in this case told me was that in Casey's friend group,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: not many people went to that trailer. Mainly it was
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: just family there. So let's take a closer look at
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Casey's family. Casey McCullough has several brothers, Chris, Corey, and
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: a half brother named Randy. Randy was away in the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: military at the time. Chris was working a job and
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: had a young baby at home, but Corey, Casey's youngest brother,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: is more of an enigma. He was under eighteen at
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: the time in high school. He told police he was
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: living with his mother and that he was in Sarcy,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Arkansas at the time Rebecca was murdered. But later my
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: found out that this wasn't true because Casey's father, Claude McCullough,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: told police that Corey was there that weekend. Claude said
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: that he saw Corey at their grandparents' house near Wolf Farm,
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: the same home where Billy Miller, his mom, Linda, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Jeremy Miller were staying. It was a couple of miles
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: from Casey's trailer. Back in twenty eighteen, I was contacted
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: by someone close to Casey mccully's younger brother, Corey. This
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: person told me that Corey and Casey had told them
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: multiple times over the years that both of them Corey
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: and Casey were in the trailer when Rebecca was murdered.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Yet Corey had never been interviewed by the Arkansas State Police,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: not once in sixteen years.
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: Been Your Day of Birth nine one eighty seven.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Finally, in twenty twenty, Mike McNeil sat down with Corey
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: for an interview.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: Here we go, so, uh, polygraph, Let's get a few
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: things clear.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Uh. First off, Corey said he'd only met Rebecca a
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: few times. He described her as always happy, always smiling.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Mike asked Corey about that weekend before Rebecca went missing.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Corey said he didn't remember where he was. Mike sounds skeptical.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: He told him that he had spoken to Claude he
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: knew Corey had been in Melbourne on Sunday. Mike asked
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Corey who he thought could have killed Rebecca. Corey said
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Casey had told him over the years that he knew
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: who did it, but declined to mention names. Corey voluntarily
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: took a lot of detector test. It came back inconclusive.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: He didn't pass, but he didn't fail either.
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: Well, Corey, how was that stressful?
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: Stressful?
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I've never been so stressed in alive. Mike had another
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: piece of physical evidence that had been sitting in storage
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: for years, a purple washcloth that had been wadded up
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: under the bed where Rebecca slept and where some of
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the bloody bedding was dashed. Now nothing in the case
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: while indicates that there was any usable DNA on this rag,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: but Corey didn't know that. Mike decided it was time
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: to take a chance. Corey completely denied having anything to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: do with Rebecca's death or knowing who did. Basically, in
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: the end, Corey called Mike's bluff. He said he needed
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: to either arrest him or let him go, and Corey
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: walked out of there. Mike was also tracking other family members.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: He was tracking Billy Miller's movements and investigating Billy's brother, Jeremy.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: At the time of Rebecca's murder, Billy was about twenty
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: seven years old and Jeremy was fifteen. The story that
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: the family told was that Linda had moved to the
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Melbourne area with Jeremy a few months before Rebecca's murder,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: but that Jeremy started having trouble in school. Linda decided
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: she wanted to move, so Billy drove from Texas, where
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: he was living at the time.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: To help them.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Back then, Billy was married his first wife, Amanda, and
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: they had two daughters. Eventually, after Rebecca's murder, he moved
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: to the Philippines to work on oil rigs. He married
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: a local woman and they had two children. Billy told
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: investigators that he sometimes earned twenty five thousand dollars a month,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: which allowed him to live like a king overseas. They
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: bought a pineapple plantation. Jeremy Miller stayed closer to home
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: over the years. Even after he got married and Jeremy
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: and his wife had a son, he continued to live
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: with Linda. When they moved to Colorado, Linda moved with them. Eventually,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Jeremy got divorced, but his mother never really left him.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Jeremy and Linda moved to Oregon. Linda told police that
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Jeremy has always lived with her and that that's the
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: way she likes it.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Billy.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Billy was planning to move back to America when his
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: wife and kids after COVID. He bought a home in
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Cottage Grove, Oregon, so once again, Billy, Linda, and Jeremy
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Miller would be one big, happy family. In twenty twenty,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Mike also reached out to Linda Miller.
• 29:25
  Speaker 8: Hello.
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: Hello, this is Linda Miller and I'm returning your car.
• 29:30
  Speaker 8: Hey, Linda, how are you doing?
• 29:33
  Speaker 7: Doing pretty good?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: She told him that Billy was out of the country
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: and she wasn't sure when he'd be back. Listen to
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: how sincere and helpful Linda sounds when she's talking to Mike.
• 29:45
  Speaker 8: I just wanted to reach out to you guys and
• 29:48
  Speaker 8: see what of course I get. You know, Billy's in
• 29:52
  Speaker 8: the Philippines. I probably won't be able to talk to
• 29:54
  Speaker 8: him for I don't know if he's planning on coming
• 29:57
  Speaker 8: back anytime soon or do you know.
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 30:01
  Speaker 8: Oh, now you don't know.
• 30:03
  Speaker 7: Things have been crazy with.
• 30:05
  Speaker 8: The okay, right right?
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: But Linda Miller was lying, and she had no idea
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: that Mike McNeil was tracking her calls, because immediately after
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: she hung up with Mike, Linda called her son Billy,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: and she sounded totally different to the person who was
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: chatting happily to Mike in this voicemail. In my opinion,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Linda sounds pretty cold and calculating.
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: Hey, Billy. I made that call to the Arkansas State Police,
• 30:37
  Speaker 7: and what he wants is to make an appointment to
• 30:40
  Speaker 7: see us all. And I told him that I'll have
• 30:45
  Speaker 7: to get with Jeremy and I never I said, you know,
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: he wanted to know the last time you came in.
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: I said, I don't recall that you usually come about
• 30:56
  Speaker 7: ten days for your physical and stuff and then you
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: go back. And I did not tell him that you
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: were in the US right now. But I think it
• 31:09
  Speaker 7: would be better if we all three saw him together.
• 31:13
  Speaker 7: He's willing to fly in and meet with us in person,
• 31:19
  Speaker 7: do his interview. Maybe that'll put a stop to this,
• 31:24
  Speaker 7: all right, Love be back.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Mike was building a profile on Billy Miller. He talked
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: to several people who knew him. Some of them told
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: disturbing stories about Billy Miller being a violent sexual predator
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: and about it being what they called an open secret
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: in his family.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: Hello Mike.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: A cousin of Billy's told Mike how back in the
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: early two thousands, Billy inappropriately touched a young woman who
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: was four years old at the time. This cousin described
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Billy as a sexual deviant. He told another disturbing story
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: about hanging out in Corpus Christi, Texas with Billy back
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: in the day and Billy wanting to solicit sex workers.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: This person said that Billy made a comment that he
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: never forgot. They said Billy told them that it would
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: be fun to kill a hooker and that no one
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: would ever know about it, which even back then, this
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: person said he knew was a huge red flag. And
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: shortly after that he said he cut off all contact
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: with Billy.
• 32:33
  Speaker 9: His family on his mother's side are not their art.
• 32:36
  Speaker 6: Can be being us evil.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Then Mike talked to another one of Billy's former victims,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: and though this interview is part of the case file
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: and her name is in it, we're not going to
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: release her name publicly. I'm including this because I believe
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: her story is super important because a lot of people
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: commented on the fact that this young woman had had
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: problems in her life over the years, and after hearing
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: her story, it's clear that she is traumatized by what
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: she says Billy did to her. She got very emotional
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: during this interview. She said when she was young, she
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: was hanging out with Billy and some other friends. She
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: said he acted like he was being protective after a
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: night of drinking, making sure that she got into bed. Okay,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: but she said he had far more sinister intentions. She
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: said that Billy raped her that night, but it.
• 33:30
  Speaker 9: Had gone out. I'm drinking and there was a friend
• 33:36
  Speaker 9: of his that was actually my age that went to
• 33:38
  Speaker 9: school with us, that went with us to Robbie Parker
• 33:42
  Speaker 9: and I went and lay down. He said I could
• 33:46
  Speaker 9: have his room because Robbie had the couch or whatever.
• 33:48
  Speaker 9: And and that's when you know, I was, I was,
• 33:54
  Speaker 9: I had too much for drink and I didn't feel
• 33:57
  Speaker 9: like I mean, I was sick. And yeah, he and
• 34:03
  Speaker 9: I kept push him away from me.
• 34:04
  Speaker 7: That's than I could.
• 34:06
  Speaker 9: But yeah, I just felt like I didn't.
• 34:13
  Speaker 7: Have a strength to So I'm so sorry to bring
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: this up.
• 34:22
  Speaker 8: And I know it's it's an awful it's an awful
• 34:26
  Speaker 8: thing to think about.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: And would you consider what Billy did to you, that
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: he raped you?
• 34:35
  Speaker 9: Yeah, there was a.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And this victim said when she heard about the
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: allegations against Billy in Rebecca's case, she thought that Rebecca's
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: murder must have been a date rape gone wrong. Finally,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Mike was able to sit down with Billy Miller in Oregon.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: He asked him about these dark events from his past.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Billy said that the allegations weren't true. He said the
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: woman who accused him of molesting her four year old
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: daughter was just a psycho x and he said the
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: little girl's story kept changing. He also denied assaulting anyone else.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Then Mike circled back to Rebecca's case and once again
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: took us back to that crucial weekend. Billy downplayed any
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: connection to Rebecca. He said he didn't know her at all,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: that he didn't even know what she looked like until
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: he saw some information related to our podcast.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: After seeing the podcast and that stuff. You know, look,
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: I could belond here, okay on Blue Eyed Girl in
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: all the podcasts and the pictures you know I've seen.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Mike asked Billy about Casey's version of events.
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: So in Casey's interview, he said that Rebecca looked out
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: the window and saw a car in the driveway on
• 36:04
  Speaker 5: the road, and then Casey looked out and saw that
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: it was you, and then he went out there and
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: you guys talked for about fifteen minutes. So his mom
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: was with us and all that stuff. No, not at
• 36:16
  Speaker 5: this time. This was He said that whenever you got out,
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: you said that you weren't going to stop because you
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: didn't see Casey's truck, but you saw Rebecca there, so
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: you know that's Casey had already given his truck to
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: Claud in town and you were just you know, it
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: was dark whenever this happened, whenever you stopped buying, you
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: and Casey were talking.
• 36:42
  Speaker 6: In the driveway.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: So Mike is calling out the fact here that it
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: was dark outside. So looking from inside a trailer out
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: into the darkness, how would you recognize someone you hadn't
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: seen in years. And we're not talking about a big
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: city where there are street lights.
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: Here.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: It is pitch black out there in the wilderness. When
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: the lights are out, you can't even see your hands
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: in front of your face. Mike believed Billy had seen
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Rebecca and Casey together earlier that day. We know that
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: on Saturday, Rebecca and Casey went together out to Wolf Farm,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: where Billy and his family were staying. They dropped off
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Casey's truck so that his father Claude could use it.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Rebecca followed Casey to Woolf Farm. She was his ride home.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: So Mike believed that when Casey and Rebecca were at
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: the house together, that Billy saw Rebecca there and that
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: maybe that's when he decided to drive back to the
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: house and look for her. Mike asked Billy to take
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: a light detector test and to give a DNA sample.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: When Mike asked Billy if Billy's DNA would be in
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: the house if there was any reason for that, Billy's
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: answer is interesting.
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: Would you be willing to provide your DNA? It would
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: be a cheek swab. I don't want to take blood
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: or flit away hands as if I've been in the
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: house and all that stuff, my DNA would be in
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: the well and point and that is on record.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: And we know that now.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Remember both Billy and Casey claimed that on Sunday night,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: when Billy said he stopped by the house, he never
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: went in. He only stayed on the porch. Something else
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: came out of the case file, and that was the
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: contact between Casey McCullough and Billy Miller because they were
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: out of contact for a long time. But after the
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: podcast came out, Billy started texting Casey. He interacted with
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Jennifer and he called me at the cabin where I
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: was staying he was trying to insert himself into the
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: investigation and basically to mislead people. Some of those text
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: messages that he sent Casey are now part of the
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: case file. He wrote, I want to make the Catherine
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: lady look like shit. He actually called me a dumb
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: shit several times, which actually doesn't bother me. In fact,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: knowing what happened, I weirdly take that as some kind
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: of a compliment. Eventually, we all know Billy confessed to
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Rebecca's murder, but as we've said before, their aspects of
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: his confession that just don't seem to make sense. Something
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: else that jumped out to me while I was reading
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: through the case file was that on the morning of Monday,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: September twentieth, Billy was up early. He said he drove
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: to the area behind Casey's trailer to hunt deer, saw
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Rebecca's car in the driveway and didn't see Casey's truck. Now,
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Billy said this led him to conclude that Casey wasn't home,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: and that's when he knocked on the door, told Rebecca
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: he had to use the phone, and made up that
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: pretext for going inside the house. But if Billy stopped
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: by on Sunday night and talked to Casey. Well, remember
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Casey had already dropped off his truck with his dad,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: so Casey's truck wasn't there then either. So what I'm
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: getting at is that Casey's truck not being parked at
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: that trailer did not mean that Casey wasn't home, and
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Billy knew that. So why would Billy assume that Rebecca
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: was alone on Monday morning? Billy claimed that after Rebecca
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: led him in the house, she went back to the
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: bedroom to lie down. Then he felt a rage building.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: While he was pacing, he saw that there was a
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: piano leg loose. He grabbed it, went into the bedroom
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: and hit her with it. Then, he said, he wrapped
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: her body in a blanket, did a quick cleanup, presumably
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: with the cleaning products that had conveniently been dropped there
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: by his mother, put the body in the bed of
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: his truck, and then dumped her remains off Highway nine,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: where they were found a week later. Now, I will
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: say there are definitely things that Billy has given police
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: that indicate he was involved in this murder. We know
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: that he was the one who led investigators to the suitcase.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: The black suitcase that had been missing since two thousand
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: and four. Investigators found it. It was full of bloody bedding.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: So that suitcase was a smoking gun and it was
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: the nail in Billy Miller's coffin. But if Billy did
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: kill Rebecca, and if he acted alone, why has his
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: story changed so many times? First he said he strangled Rebecca. Later,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: after he found out that our hyoid bone was not
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: broken and that there was no evidence of a fracture,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: he never mentioned strangulation.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Many of the things that Billy mentioned investigators about the
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: actual killing seemed to have been pulled straight off of
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: social media, off of Facebook groups or things he's heard
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: in a podcast are read in the papers, and it's
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: clear that he's been following social media. You can see
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: that in the case file, in the chats he had.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: He joined the Unsolved Murder of Rebecca Guld group. Throughout
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: this entire investigation, Billy was trying to get information from people.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: He admitted this to investigators.
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: So if you're asking about you know, yeah, I followed
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: the podcast following every day. Then I had there and
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: told my cousins Randy. I reached out to my cousin
• 42:10
  Speaker 5: Randy and said, hey, if you need money for a lawyer,
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: you know, I'll hit me up. And that was my
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: way in and to keep an eye on what was
• 42:20
  Speaker 5: going on though, okay, and then saying, hey, keep an
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: eye on the slander and all that stuff on the podcast.
• 42:30
  Speaker 5: So I would send him a home of just about
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: you know that.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: And after he confessed to Rebecca's murder, Billy kept lying.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: He said that he had murdered several other women, all
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: sex workers, all the same size and physical type as Rebecca.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: He said he strangled them and then dumped their bodies.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Mike asked him, would you consider yourself a serial killer?
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Billy said that he was a sick individual. Then he
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: referred to a demon he said he had living inside him.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I was hoping the case file would provide some clarity,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: and in a way it really has. It showed me
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: the utter incompetence of Dennis Simon's investigation and how this
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: case stalled for years, and in my opinion, due to
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: the laser focus on Chris Cantrell and JB.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Yates.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Mike McNeil did a great job in his investigation. He
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: was able to secure a confession through what was in
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: my opinion, a masterful interview technique, and he did everything
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: by the book. Billy Miller has been caught in so
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: many lives so far, and we hear him literally laughing
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: about it. So even though I hope he does come clean,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: to be honest, I don't have high hopes that he will.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: And in less and until he comes forward with information
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: that could be helpful to the case and that can
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: be verified, I'm not going to give him any more publicity.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: So once again we come back to the question what
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: really happened to Rebecca. Jennifer and others have made it
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: clear they think she could have been killed on Sunday night,
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: and I think that that is a possibility, but I
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: think it's more likely that Rebecca did wake up on
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Monday morning, get out of bed, put her fuzzy pink
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: slippers on, and, as Danielle, her sister, always believed, take
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Casey to work while she was still kind of half asleep.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Then that she stopped by the Possum Trot and bought
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: that breakfast sandwich and coffee. She went back home, probably
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: dead bowl to the door the way she usually did
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: when she was planning to take a nap, put her
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: breakfast aside while she watched Regis and Kelly, and then
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: planned to take a nap before she went back to school.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I believe that someone knocked on the door and that
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Rebecca went to answer it, and I believe that Billy
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Miller was there that morning. I just don't think the
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: evidence supports the murder happening the way he said it did.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I think there could have been someone else there, or
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: maybe more than one person. I believe my witness who
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: said Casey confessed to him. He has no reason to
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: lie and has actually lost a lot as a result
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: of this case. I believe the facts indicate that at
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: a minimum, Casey knew more than he let on. Dennis
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Simons and others have always insisted that when this case
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: file came out, we would all see that Casey had
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: an airtight alibi. But honestly, the release of the file
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: just confirmed what we began to discover back in twenty eighteen.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Not only was Casey's alibi not airtight, but there were
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: multiple holes in it, not only on Sunday, but also
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: on Monday morning. If anything, the interview with Bruce Shipman,
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: the manager of Sonic at the time, who was on
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: duty on Tuesday, and who was a very good friend
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: of Casey's.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Proves this because Bruce.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: Said that time cards could be altered, and now we
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: know Casey went home not just once, but twice that morning.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Everyone has a dark side, and in this case, one
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: of the things that I learned was that sometimes the
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: scariest people are not serial killers. They're the people living
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: in our communities, people we trust, people who in other
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: settings might be amazing partners or bothers or friends, but
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: who have the capacity to turn on a young woman
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: who was just starting out in life and beat her
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: to death. I would encourage everyone out there to use
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: the Freedom of Information Act make a Foyer request look
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: at this case file. I am so proud of the
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: work that we and that every single person listening to
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: this has done. I stand by our work one thousand percent,
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: and again I'm going to let the facts speak for themselves.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I said way back when I started this that murder
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: investigations are the closest we get to time travel, And
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: years later, I can confirm once again that this is true,
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: because we have come full circle. We end where we
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: started back on that fateful day in twenty eighteen when
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: I did a local radio program in Batesville. I remember
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: sitting in that studio with Gary Bee, who I love,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: by the way, and I want to think again. Back then,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: I wasn't sure that anyone was listening, but they did
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: and together we started a movement. So once again I'm
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: ending this podcast on a call to action. Police have
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: said if any new evidence comes to light, they will
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: look at it and take it seriously. And this time
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: I believe them because we have a competent investigator on
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: the case. Hell and Gone accomplished its goal. The investigator,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: who in my opinion, was ignoring evidence is out of
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: there and a competent investigator is in charge. So if
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: you have any information that police should know, please call
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Mike McNeil at the Arkansas State Police. And if you
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: have any information you want to share with me or
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: my team, you can reach out to us at our
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: six one four or five. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone is a production of
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts Music
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: is by Ben so Lee. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Brandon Barr, and else Crowley. If you have a case
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: you'd like me and my team to look into, you
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Line at six seven eight seven four four six one
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: four five. That's six seven eight seven four four, six,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: one four or five. This is Helen Gone Murder Line.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: School of Humans