Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the gorgeous Stacey Smith-Questionmark about her pick of The Girl Who Died

Transcript

Talks to the gorgeous Stacey Smith-Questionmark about her pick of The Girl Who Died · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:40
Hello and welcome to a handsome of a knife.
0:43
The Doctor Who commentary podcast I am here today with a
0:47
very, very good friend of mine. Stacy, Smith, Safe.
0:51
What did I say your name with an upward inflection there.
0:56
So my name has a question mark in it which I've had for a very,
0:59
very long time. And yes you have to inflict on
1:02
the sniff some people say question mark but yet.
1:05
No formally speaking guy Smith also from Australia.
1:08
So it makes you pronounce my name with an Australian accent.
1:11
They've all would mention this one and I loved it.
1:14
So we've known each other for about 20 years now, haven't we?
1:19
Yes, we have and I first became aware of you via the website
1:24
Doctor Who ratings guide. It the that had already been
1:27
going there. So tell me a little bit about
1:29
that. Yeah, it's a, it's a review
1:32
website and the idea is, if anyone can write a review of
1:35
anything to do with dr. Group and the review can be very
1:37
short, very long, you know anything in between.
1:40
It doesn't have to be fancy. You just write a review and
1:42
centered it and I took over this from someone else.
1:46
So I think I first found it didn't like that late 90s and I
1:48
could go over 99 and I was very much, like, hey, you don't ever
1:52
use of the books. So, you know, and the guy was
1:54
like, I don't know anything. About them.
1:55
Do you want the job? I was like, oh, oh I didn't mean
1:57
to Also you it's not just a random
2:27
knee-jerk. Twitter voice, you have to
2:28
actually be creative because you're talking about something
2:30
so you actually have to write a review on constructed.
2:33
It was actually a very safe space for me to.
2:35
I wrote a prolific number of I think every televised story
2:38
every novel and very kindly you put everyone up to thank you
2:41
very much because I kind of got me going online so that's what
2:44
makes of thank you. But you've also published a
2:49
number of books as well. When I say a number, I know you
2:53
have an entire shelf behind you. Flo books with your name on it.
2:57
That's right. Yeah.
2:58
So I mean actually quite my publisher create came out of
3:01
reviews so I would just write like you I guess I'll be going
3:03
Doctor, Who reviews online and I could review the latest books
3:06
that came out and just put them up, you know.
3:08
But the ratings, go ahead and then on wrecking stuff to do in
3:10
the 90s and so on. And I just really liked it.
3:12
And then because of that, I got to keep writing for a fanzine
3:14
every other models and sorry, just, you know, got to writing
3:17
it, I loved it. Most as I was in school and I
3:20
had no particular Ambitions and then it just happened to be in
3:23
the right place the right time. And so I was like, I love
3:25
Reviews. And he was somebody that I kind
3:27
of actually made fun of it reviews and he's like, I don't
3:29
care that you made fun of me, you were funny.
3:31
So that's great. And it's like, oh, let's read a
3:33
kind of you actually, I'm going to be embarrassed now, it was
3:37
last season and so he was a publisher for Mega region press
3:40
and he's like, no, no, I love what you're doing and, you know,
3:42
you can you do more of that and neither, can you help me out
3:44
with some stuff and then led to lots of things?
3:47
And so, yeah, I rotated and writes various books on doctor
3:51
but also other things I have a series.
3:53
Now a book series called outside in And we basically collectively
3:57
review like TV shows and so it's sort of an outgrowth of the
4:01
wedding Sky, you're interested. I think a hundred and something
4:03
people and we write 100 something reviews on something
4:06
at the Saudis. So we did 164 classic Doctor Who
4:09
we did, you know, have them 25 who knew who are we done Star
4:11
Trek Buffy X-Files you name it and it's really good.
4:15
It's also a lot of people's first time ever being published
4:18
only, so that's really neat. And again, I love the diversity
4:22
of voices. Did you get?
4:23
I love curating these reviews and also So having been added
4:26
for so long, I really know what makes for you work.
4:28
And I think the thing that really makes the series go is
4:32
that Heckman it's like, don't just write a review but you'll
4:34
with the Twist and you have to say something interesting or
4:37
different or just completely Gonzo and that really brings it
4:41
out. And so I love doing that and and
4:43
I thought you get amazing stuff that way they are.
4:45
Fantastic reason why you say, the fact that it is a different
4:48
voice for each essay. So it's so diverse are there,
4:52
may have, which shows if you covered We didn't mean to drop
4:56
the deuce. I forgive.
4:57
You ready to start Rex. We need original series and the
5:01
Next Generation we're going to come back to more staff excited.
5:03
But we're he's decided, we'll just do these payers with your
5:05
buff in angels appear. And we've just done the X-Files
5:08
as a pair, because it was so much exiled.
5:10
We split it into two, but we did our next article.
5:12
Check in volume, 1 and volume 2, which is I'm just editing right
5:15
now. I was gonna be insert the rest
5:16
of the Chris Carter universe. So it's X-Files Millennium Harsh
5:19
Realm of government. Essentially, done all of my
5:22
favorite TV shows, Great. Well, I am queued up and ready
5:29
to go, but one of you tell me which story you've chosen to do
5:33
a commentary on today. Yes.
5:35
So I love this idea by the way of doing up to commentary, but
5:38
they could such a cool idea for a podcast.
5:40
I've done a few for sort of like charity and apologies learn when
5:44
they do like, you know, let's be commentaries in a group.
5:46
But I think this is, this is a great, great idea.
5:49
And I was toying with doing doctor in the solarians, but
5:51
then when you said, well, you have to the whole story.
5:55
I'm not sitting in three weeks that I'm this commentary.
5:57
So I kind of went to my favorite.
6:00
Probably for the new series is the girl who died and it's one
6:04
of those ones that it doesn't sort of necessarily stand out
6:06
for people and you are probably it was saying which one is that
6:09
one, you know, like kill mixed up with a woman who lived and,
6:12
you know, understandably so it's the first two shoulder one.
6:15
It's along with the Vikings and so on.
6:17
And I think it's as you just said before we start, it's a
6:20
foot problem. Jim is really an amazing story,
6:23
and I think in many ways It's the Uber Doctor Who story it is.
6:27
Absolutely. As really fundamental things to
6:29
say about that concept of Doctor Who in miniature and being in a
6:33
very broad sense as well. I always feel that people skip
6:36
over this one because it's a bit silly and it's a bit funny, you
6:39
know, like is it in an era of it's generally quite dark and
6:43
serious. This is like this is kind of
6:46
like the light-hearted one of the series noise there.
6:49
Yeah. And that's not really a fair.
6:51
It's nowhere near. Its poseable people say is it's
6:54
actually a Yeah, that's right. I mean you know, you come off
6:56
the back of you've got that, you know, like magicians yet to you
6:59
number. So that's the
7:55
Yeah, it's really playing off the idea of Doctor Who is a very
7:57
silly show and love it for that honey.
7:59
We know a doctor who kind of came back in 2005.
8:02
You know, I remember thinking like was either gonna be really
8:04
serious kind of hard sci-fi or it's going to be like just for
8:07
kids and not for me and instead as like in like, you know, the
8:10
fourth of us heard, whatever there's a, there's a walking
8:12
space Pig. Yeah, people who are like aliens
8:16
with a zipper on a forward. I'm like, OMG this is the show
8:18
for me like the way it was like a long side, a scathing
8:21
political commentary as well as. So you kind of have the best of
8:24
both worlds. Else.
8:25
Exactly. And that to me is absolutely not
8:27
to do it. Is it is Sensational and amazing
8:30
and hard hitting and deep, and at the same time, really, really
8:32
silly. Let's go.
8:55
Oh, so wait, we're opening here. Are we in another adventure?
8:59
It's yes, it's a mini Adventure. Yeah.
9:02
So you know, we open on a cloth hanging upside down space and
9:06
you know, like, you know, the doctors going to rescue her.
9:08
But what you're saying is is basically it's Doctor Who story
9:11
in two minutes. Oh, yeah.
9:12
And you know, some of its back story, but like, you know,
9:15
there's like, you know, there's these are spiders.
9:17
And I mean, the way that they fill in like the story, this is,
9:22
this is Peak Steven Moffat. You know, you can obviously tell
9:26
Steven Moffat wrote this bitch. It's so dense.
9:29
It's so much is happening all at once.
9:32
There's nothing Elise T 2 minutes where that you don't
9:35
understand. He's like yeah I say that race
9:37
of people, you see the Monster, you see them dispatch it.
9:41
Yeah it's yeah. It's all there and it's also
9:44
just a really fun of me like exactly and you.
9:48
Yeah it really hits the ground running and I think sort of you
9:50
know, you think this one is oh yeah that's that one that's
9:52
suffering for the Vikings and you start watching it like hang
9:54
on. Yeah, what's it?
9:56
I do remember this. Yeah, and you know, I think this
10:00
point in his brown people, do you really letting his hair down
10:03
and letting he's having fun? I'm having a lot of fun in the
10:07
first series that you did. Yeah, that's right.
10:10
He seems kind of dark character in a lot of ways and, and I
10:12
mean, maybe more like an AG character, I think.
10:15
And she sort of has that like a, my good man, you know, stuff.
10:18
And, you know, anything you do, you let people dying you.
10:21
Your other doctors would at least trying to say that, you
10:23
know, this is quite an To this doctor.
10:26
And he says over this series, he's wearing like a t-shirt and
10:28
a hoodie because I'm like on a time-travel electric guitar.
10:32
You know I'm gonna always said in those ways is like he's
10:34
having a midlife crisis but he plays comedy really well for
10:39
someone who's going to known as a bit of a serious doctor.
10:43
I think his comedy stuff is terrific.
10:46
All right? Yeah, it's gold actually.
10:48
And and you know I mean they always say like, you know,
10:50
actors are going to Comedy. I usually the best fact.
10:52
That's right, because they understand all the stuff they
10:54
have. Timing and assembly important up
10:56
along the problems of lines and so on, you know, and often they
10:59
can do every exercise to, but it's like think they're the ones
11:03
who often get it. And, you know, things like a
11:04
mirror when they were casting Breaking Bad, right?
11:06
They said like, oh, we're gonna put this comedy actor in and,
11:08
you know, the exact is, like, you can put a comedy actor in
11:10
this series throwing another. That's, that's what you want.
11:13
You want. Somebody could really, really
11:14
nail it and and I feel like you have to call this is quite
11:17
simply. They wasn't doing for that.
11:18
You obviously can do it. I seem to remember J&T saying
11:21
that once about I thought it looked like it was I'm not sure.
11:25
He done a casting in the 80s that have received a lot of
11:28
criticism and he was like no comedy actors like if you're a
11:31
good comedian actor. Yeah it kind of sounds reason
11:34
you're a good dramatic actor as well under the funny examples in
11:37
the new so that it can print a exactly.
11:40
Yeah. That's right.
11:41
He comes out of nowhere and you think yeah.
11:43
So here we see that. Oh yeah.
11:45
Let me just broke the Sonic sunglasses.
11:49
You know what they're doing? Is they all the accoutrements of
11:54
the doctor? Right.
11:55
And so they you know, they they transport him far.
11:57
Far away, you know it's two days boat ride away from the Tardis
12:00
like they just throw this the site sunglass.
12:02
I mean obviously important to the story but they destroyed
12:04
them, you know, it's like if it's busy just he's taken away
12:09
from all the usual things. And I think the new series
12:10
relies on because, you know, series, I think because of its
12:13
runtime, right. It's, you know, it's a 45-minute
12:16
story instead of a hour and a half.
12:18
So, effectively that the teaser, before the credits has to do the
12:22
work of the first two episodes, the old money You've got to set
12:27
it up, you got to get it going and you got any sort of set up a
12:29
parallel and in the classic series story.
12:31
We'd be now entering, episode 3. And of course, we're only a few
12:34
minutes in. It is a shame because I do
12:36
really love those old classic series episode.
12:39
Once you kind of lose a lot of that kind of atmosphere and
12:42
suspense building. Don't.
12:43
Yeah. But you didn't think, like you
12:44
said, you have to get a quick. Yeah, yeah.
12:48
That's right. There's a trade-off, of course,
12:50
right. It's a give you speed it up,
12:51
then. Yeah, you're going to lose
12:52
something. I think you lose, you lose the
12:54
war. Building the Wonder and you lose
12:57
the character Styles, all of it in some ways, is it disposable?
13:00
But, in some ways, it's not and I think actually one of the best
13:02
examples I Prime, and the reason I almost think that's a variance
13:05
for the stories because I just written a whole black archive on
13:07
it. Yeah, Doom don't get story a lot
13:10
but if you look at the modern series version of the solarians
13:13
which is hungry Us in Cold Blood, you know, it's the same
13:17
story be told in fast forward and you lose a lot like gold.
13:21
Yeah. Even when they try to have the
13:23
same arguments in the same debates, So on.
13:25
And so I think that gives definitely be said for the
13:28
longest story before, but the shorter one to is so like we're
13:32
with the glasses with the Sonic Screwdriver, with the psychic
13:36
paper, that's all shortcuts. Isn't it just to get the
13:38
narrative moving? Yes, that's right.
13:40
Exactly, please. Yes, I can never get you through
13:43
the door, you know. And yeah, exactly.
13:45
Yeah, there's a big hit with the doctor notices.
13:47
The shoulder her. Yeah, and in catch for a couple
13:49
of Ewings and yeah, he's like, he looks at her.
13:52
He's like, wait, I know. You don't, I You're like, he's
13:55
obviously seen her around, right?
13:57
He's seen her in the future because, of course, she's
14:00
pulling him in the future, but it's his beautiful woman.
14:04
The other reading that I had locked, the lost, my watch
14:06
crystals, like all the way to that feature hadn't happened
14:08
yet, and the future is kind of being set, which I think is sort
14:10
of what the dialogue is kind of indicating Irvine.
14:12
But I really thought that is like, no, no she'sshe's around
14:15
of the future, but it's such a beautiful introduction of her.
14:19
And of course, you know, II didn't even watch Game of
14:21
Thrones the time when it came out, but I still knew she was
14:24
Was somebody? Sorry, probably there was like a
14:28
big publicity drive. Wasn't there about only
14:30
goodness? Yeah, I mean I think you seen it
14:33
since she's extraordinary? Okay.
14:35
Yes yes I have actually Yeah, it's like, give me some
14:57
using the yo-yo to kind of like, you know, like it committed that
15:00
the villages which is, you know, such a Tom Baker birth.
15:03
And also, it doesn't work, which is hilarious.
15:06
It's a video, your kind of, like, yours.
15:08
You can't even be kind of Mexico and then it is also, it's
15:12
another one of those like remember what Doctor Who is all
15:15
about, right? It's a silly man with the yoyo
15:17
try to pretend it's a you know intimidate you think and I've
15:21
got the real privilege Community.
15:22
Think of up in the sky, Brian blessed.
15:26
Did I hear this was supposed to be brought Brian blessed
15:28
original. Yes, yes.
15:29
That's right. There was talk about that.
15:31
Such a shame that would that would have been amazing.
15:54
You raise an excellent point, because I think that's that's in
15:57
a lot of sense. The whole point of this episode
15:59
is about special effects, right? I'm sorry, the doctors trying to
16:02
do a special effects with your Euro, the mire and doing the
16:06
special effect of the sky, the top somewhat Progressive.
16:09
Yeah, my are basically the new series and you know the doctors
16:12
based in the Classic Series, right?
16:13
He's using a yo-yo and later he's going to use like you know,
16:16
like just really bad crops and like you're like you're like
16:22
physical props, where's the Maya they use, you know, kind of see.
16:24
G.i. effectively. And if the really interesting
16:27
take on this kind of battle between the new series in the
16:29
classic series and so they've, you know, been doing facial
16:32
recognition software and like, stuff like that.
16:35
And here, I think it says, really fundamental things
16:38
actually about about the to, and as you're looking at it on the
16:42
side of the Classic Series. Yeah, I was gonna say, if you're
16:44
looking at it in that way, the classic series definitely comes
16:46
out on top, this me in this really does.
16:49
Yes. And the new series goes running.
16:51
Yeah, exactly. See at this point in a minute,
16:57
where Clara is taking up onto the, my chip.
17:02
What really struck me was just how confident Jenna Coleman was
17:07
in the row at this point. And yes, and the character, you
17:10
know, from where she started. Like you think of like the rings
17:12
of acting where she was a little bit nervous, overwhelmed by
17:16
everything. She's been a companion for some
17:18
time now, isn't she? And she is yeah, she's
17:21
strikingly good at this point. She's really becoming the doctor
17:25
right. Like Like he just and the thing
17:27
is, the funny thing is she almost gets away with it.
17:29
All right, he's up on this live spaceship and he effectively
17:33
talks them down and they're basically being like, yeah,
17:36
okay. You make a good point will
17:37
return you. It's only the, his shoulder
17:38
throws at her but like it's quite masterful.
17:42
Yeah. And you can really see where
17:44
they're going with this and, you know, I mean this is I think
17:46
this is close Triumph in a lot of ways that leads to her fall
17:50
in The Fault, in the face of Raven guide because the facts
17:53
are agencies trying to be be the doctor again and just Again
17:56
makes makes a fundamental mistake that you could gets
17:59
doctor-patient regenerating time of Crisis was like, you know,
18:02
she comes but otherwise she really gets it and she feels
18:06
like a deliberate threat that's running through this series.
18:08
The I do. Yes, very much.
18:09
So I'm trying to think of other examples in the other episodes.
18:13
So I think at the end of Dark Water and the beginning of death
18:17
until we are sure. Yeah.
18:19
He's basically like yeah I'm the doctor yes.
18:23
Yeah. Yeah, and I am, it's interesting
19:12
in the doctors stuck down on Earth, whereas I think like in
19:15
most of the new series stories he would have gone up on the
19:17
ship. Maybe the voice would be.
19:19
Yeah, the oil. Yeah.
19:22
I love the fact that these these Vikings are just a bit rubbish.
19:26
It's this is why he's got to work with this ragtag.
19:29
Bunch of. Yeah, exactly.
20:26
I know I did. They said it does with Brunei,
20:28
it's kind of like, oh, there's a strong DC menu, I'm going to
20:30
drink of their essence. You look at the robots as well,
20:40
I think it's great. Chunky robots, very Star Wars.
20:44
He actually I think like the kind of these like, you know.
20:47
Yeah, you're tricky and they are age.
20:50
Like the kind of been all these shiny Chrome things.
20:52
They like, you know, kind of dirty and you know stomping
20:55
around and it really feels lived-in this way.
20:59
Yeah. So clora absolutely would have
21:03
taught this situation down now if a shoulder yeah didn't step
21:07
in and yeah, yeah, that's right. I know like and it's using
21:11
almost nothing, right? The using like hum from
21:13
Clarisonic sunglasses, they don't even look properly made,
21:16
it doesn't matter. It's all I got high technology.
21:17
Therefore you know, all these other things.
21:19
And I think what's going on really is like it's the power of
21:22
stories. All right.
21:23
So she's telling a story here about like what these muscle
21:27
mean you know, only somewhat true, doesn't matter but the
21:30
miles So telling a story right there being like all the way of
21:33
the most powerful in the world and like, you know, we're gonna
21:36
like something at you because look, how facing me.
21:38
Are we find out later that like, again, not to be true and
21:41
basically, the way the doctor wins is through stories.
21:43
Like, it's really brilliant and the shoulder, of course, is the
21:46
Storyteller, right? That's her role in the village
21:48
and that's why it's so late and so clever.
21:52
And I think a lot of the subtleties get really something
21:54
about. I think it's just like, oh yeah,
21:56
it's like he's having, you know, battles and stuff.
21:58
I got them kind of manipulate but like I think, I think is
22:00
such that, man. Gifts to the story.
22:05
So, she's good. Interestingly, I actually I
22:12
loved her performance in this one.
22:15
I wasn't asked convinced later on when she was trying to play,
22:19
you know, the Aeons old, the last woman in the universe.
22:24
I what? I just don't quite believe it.
22:29
Whereas, whereas here as, as the underdog.
22:32
Yeah, I thought she was fantastic.
22:35
Yes, actually, I really agree with you.
22:36
And actually looking at it, now it like having seen Game of
22:39
Thrones, Like yeah, this is really a robust secret
22:41
comfortable. And it's kind of like being this
22:43
like, you know, angry Powell is woman.
22:46
Who's like, got to grab power anyway, kind of thing but like,
22:49
kind of fighting off. Where's like you're right?
22:50
When she's the emotional, it's it's less interesting because
22:53
she didn't have as much to react to.
22:55
I think I have a question for you.
22:57
Why don't we see the Monster there?
22:59
They cut away. Do they do we see you later or
23:02
do we not see it at all? I think we do briefly at some
23:06
point. Yes, because I mean we see the
23:08
gloomy face and stuff, but yeah, we're making a not
23:11
acknowledgement that it would just be so disappointing that
23:13
we'll just leave it to your imagination.
23:15
Yes. Oh, I love the hog.
23:19
See this. This is, let's look at.
23:21
They've come on a bit now. From never trust a hug.
23:26
Yeah. And I think that's, it's a
23:28
really nice moment because like yeah, like make it goes from
23:33
like no hugging the like never trust a hug too.
23:35
Like yeah, I'm just gonna have you because I think their
23:39
chemistry at this point is terrific.
23:47
Yeah, and I love the doctor, initiating a hug too.
23:49
It's not just like Dennis randomly hugging like.
23:51
And I think like this really shows like, you know, like the
23:55
real depth of like you do and since happened with these
23:57
characters, It is the danger of what it says.
24:04
Episode this good, you start watching.
24:05
Yes. But this is the doc says, he's
24:11
like, he's trying to convince them to go but then I love the
24:13
fact. When he starts like trying to
24:14
pull plans that is that is improvisation improvisational
24:17
best. You know what?
24:19
So here's my other thinking right?
24:21
Like you know what's the Doctor's first instinct here?
24:23
If you'd like just run. Yeah.
24:25
And of course that's an opportunity for and what does he
24:27
do? The very first thing that often
24:29
does give the ski runs from Gallup Rings.
24:30
All right. Well, what's the next thing that
24:32
often does? And he's like, well, he
24:33
convinces that convinces a bunch of pacifists on skaro.
24:37
That's my darling. Makes, yeah.
24:41
Well, that's what he's doing here, effectively.
24:42
He's like, okay, well, Basically, right and lands in a
25:10
very different place, but they're like, no, no, we are not
25:12
going to fight. I left that spot household.
25:14
I think you started think is really riffing off those same
25:17
things. It's like, you know, should we
25:19
fight a lot? And, you know, it's like
25:21
following Will Die With Honor. Like the babies have already.
25:24
Yeah. Obviously bringing out the bike
25:32
but the bit where she says, you've decided to stay.
25:33
Why? Because the baby stopped crying.
25:36
I think. Yeah, or just, yeah, yeah.
25:38
Yes, that's right. Yeah I mean the baby Powers so
25:40
much sorry because it's like, you know, it's the it's the baby
25:44
talk that he has both. Like in terms of like, you know,
25:47
expressing fear the powerful motivator, but also with the
25:51
eels and, you know, like oh the EOS Capone area is insane
25:57
electric eels, so funny. Yeah, he's really dumb.
26:19
That's an obvious fit company as well where it just cuts to the
26:22
mall. Like yeah.
26:24
Bloody and wounded and exactly I think on fire and you know, yeah
26:29
because you're like that's exactly how it would go right
26:31
here. Doctor might be pretty
26:33
impressive, but he's not actually going to train a
26:34
village full of like old people were starting to like fighting
26:37
cause and you know, yeah, see, I can believe this.
26:41
This, this assembly of fighting force going hideously wrong far.
26:45
More than I can believe you are a good man, goes to war.
26:49
So when he starts pulling in everybody fall from the time and
26:52
you've got this great Army behind him is Almighty
26:55
represent. This?
26:56
This, this is more enjoyable for this is, this is more realistic.
27:01
Yeah, yeah. That's right.
27:02
I mean, I think the good man goes to war, like, you know,
27:04
that's really, it's kind of this like Revenge fantasy, right?
27:06
It's like, I will get it together, all my powerful
27:08
forces, and I will take out somebody who has wronged me and
27:12
like that. And you're like, yeah, you can
27:13
kind of like stand up and cheer up there because like, that's
27:15
the kind of Storytelling that we like to tell ourselves.
27:18
And like, you know, like I will Up against people because her
27:20
company at don't like I find this very much more realistic.
27:23
It's kind of like, okay, but how, how are you actually going
27:26
to do that? But the answer is like not in
27:28
the way you think, right? And it's like, you can't run,
27:30
you can't fight for what you do. And that's really, that's not
27:33
for you to be right? It's like, okay, we're not going
27:35
to do what everyone else does. We're going to find a third way
27:38
and especially like cars. It's like, you know yeah he's
27:41
going to win. He just doesn't know how yet but
27:43
that doesn't matter. Because that's how the doctor
27:45
works at some of the reasons you will find a way and she has
27:48
absolute faith in this. This and another I don't know
27:50
how she does have Voyage. He basically embarrasses them
27:54
into going. There's a bit, right?
27:55
Exactly. Russia's their egos.
27:59
Yeah. But they don't actually learn
28:00
Fire one shot. You know, there's not once all
28:03
that's flying. It's basically you know, we will
28:05
destroy your reputation unless you move on or off.
28:09
Yeah. That's that's and that's so the
28:11
doctor isn't it? Not worry.
28:13
Shop using his smart. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
28:17
And it's, you know, it's the kind of thing that like, you
28:19
know, something I was growing up.
28:20
I was like, you know, the bullies would always be trying
28:23
to like him off to be a whatever.
28:24
I don't like, I have no chance of finding them and I can't run
28:27
away. What am I going to do?
28:28
And all I could do is just like smart talk my way.
28:30
Okay. And and I basically learned it
28:32
from Doctor Who I was like yep, I can, I can just be a bit
28:35
cheeky and a bit mouthy and funny and it's surprisingly
28:38
works like, you know, and sometimes they just don't make
28:42
them off and they were like, all right, I guess we won't.
28:44
You know, I won't kill you today, I love you.
28:46
Keep your left leg up the right and another signs.
28:48
They changed them in front of their friends and you know that
28:51
took the power out of it and these are all explicit lesson.
28:53
They learned from court. Records is like yes.
28:55
Okay this is one that I can flip side of the first place.
28:57
Yeah. Look at them here together.
29:03
Hmm, because it's a strange season this.
29:06
I thought because they separate the two of them a lot, they
29:10
should act sorry in the witch's familiar that she's with Missy
29:15
in under the lake. They're separated in the second
29:17
episode. In the zygon two-parter, she's
29:22
out the action completely. So, this kind of like the woman
29:28
who lived So this is kind of like their episode.
29:34
Yeah, exactly, yes, you're right.
29:36
This is basically their only real episode until Taste, the
29:39
rainbow. I wanted to guessing one that
29:42
terribly forgetful episode. I'll sleep no more.
29:44
Thank you. Yes, and more completely forgot.
30:01
Because like the kind of like that was like, oh yeah.
30:03
So there are they like oh no I saw her first.
30:04
So it's kind of like I think they're both having a bit of a
30:07
crush on her, which is quite quite amazing.
30:09
And also given the way things go is really really interesting
30:14
because you know, it's effectively, Clara ends up
30:16
living with her and yeah, yeah. What the, this isn't this is
30:19
like a very delicate thread that flower is bicycle, especially
30:23
benches. Jacob rascon at one point and
30:24
giving you a smoke. Yeah, that's Yeah, so I mean I
30:30
love had this goofy. All the villagers look, so here
30:34
we go. Like how did they set the barn
30:40
on fire? Yeah.
30:47
Clara is looking around like yeah well maybe we won't win
30:50
this on the other stuff. Yeah, yeah.
30:55
But like I remember talking with Jack on my other podcast and he
31:00
really loved the fact that in this, you've got kind of very
31:03
rubbish villains and very rubbish Heroes that says that
31:08
there's no kind of clear Advantage here on either side.
31:13
I mean I think that's that's that's such great Doctor Who,
31:15
right? It's like you know things are a
31:17
bit rubbish and that's that's fine.
31:19
You know as I feel like you know as soon as the doctor gets to
31:22
real it doesn't kind of work. Yeah.
31:24
Like you know yet if you have this actual Unstoppable Force
31:27
who's going to just like your executable on site, like you
31:29
like why would the doctor really even survive that, you know, and
31:31
it's like, you know, when everything's a bit bit funny and
31:34
it became a bit silly, it's great.
31:38
And yeah, I noticed you say it's great.
31:41
I feel like This story and don't like it.
31:45
I'm not sure where this enjoying yourself has become such a bad
31:50
thing because it's so enjoyable, this episode.
31:54
Yeah, I mean, I think it's almost so now people, I think
32:05
ordinary Because I want amazing spectacular episodes Every Time.
32:15
I Think of course it doesn't work that way if you're amazing
32:17
particular every time you press the bar again.
32:19
And so so you're saying that if they raise the bar a little too
32:22
high, the Survivor. I mean you just you know, aside
32:26
from one or two episodes, in the new series, you just don't have
32:29
rubbish forms of 91, type episode anymore.
32:31
It's a shame. Do the found footage?
33:12
I think it's a great idea. Yeah, look like you know points
33:16
for trying if this is not lazy Kitty.
33:18
You know, like there's good stuff always I think my I have a
33:21
lot of difficulties within the forest of the night but I its
33:25
scent is really trying to do something quite new in that
33:28
there's really there's a villain in that is that it's just know
33:31
the planet doing is themed event.
33:33
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
33:34
The opening is great. Beginning of each scene is a bit
33:40
worse than the last one. Watch it.
33:50
And it ends with little girl, a period of the fairy dust.
33:57
Yeah. How did we get here?
34:12
Okay, but yes yes exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:18
I think here you know shoulder is like she's sort of the kid
34:21
that she's not kicker. I mean, something very young but
34:23
like you know, obviously they also had also she did, you know,
34:26
she was acting chops to get all your stuff and, you know, but
34:30
yeah, it sort of have a little bit of an element about.
34:33
I mean there's you know, the the last scene of this episode with
34:36
thank credible shot going around her through floor like you
34:41
needed a summer. Good acting chops.
34:43
Could you imagine? I don't know.
34:44
Angie nrt from Nightmare, is really trying to pull that off.
34:48
Yeah. Either that silence is
34:49
incredible because she Maps out the entire rest of the season on
34:52
her face and it's like she's hopeful and then she's gonna
34:56
come and she's determined and like you know like you know like
34:59
oh this is great. She's saved his life.
35:12
Like a two-parter. Like therefore, this was the
35:13
year to barters and that's what a fantastic link into the next
35:17
one. Yeah, yeah.
35:18
That's it was a perfectly decent episode at that last scene.
35:21
I was just like that was very good.
35:24
Like, excellent. Right, right.
35:25
Okay. So for me, the seam is not that
35:28
scene. The scene is coming coming a bit
35:31
earlier than that. So the bit that gets me every
35:34
time is no I didn't get to it when you get sober like the read
35:37
the real reason I chose two stories for one particular
35:39
scene. Yes that's how I'll hold off
35:42
till we get there. Yeah, the baby's crib.
35:48
So I just said, you know, I still think that Peter Capaldi
36:02
is the best actor to play the doctor.
36:06
Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
36:08
Is phenomenal. Yeah, yeah.
36:11
Actually, you know, it's interesting because I didn't
36:13
like his acting. When I first saw her I thought I
36:15
can deep breath, is not as soon as it was.
36:26
I kind of like a weird are separate his character in his
36:30
three seasons going into summer season.
36:32
He's goes on a little art where he's kind of a little bit nasty
36:35
little bit dark in the second. One is like his, finding the fun
36:41
a little bit, but then in this Thursday, evenings, there is 10.
36:43
I think he's, yeah. As good as the doctor never
36:46
been. Yeah.
36:48
Yeah. It's like, I mean, I think
36:49
you're right because I dig in this little seasoned, you
36:51
finding the fun but then he died.
36:55
So, you know, it's a rude awakening.
37:25
Morgan Le Fay and I was like, yeah, no, I like love what
37:27
you're doing and I love the Mexican beer.
37:30
Actually I love methods. Particularly the doctor.
37:32
He's totally my favorite of these series doctors.
37:36
And it's funny because I wasn't into that containment at all and
37:38
I was like, I've never eaten. It does not do it for me in the
37:41
slightest and everyone else is going crazy and I was like, you
37:44
know it was me. Sorry and I'm like oh great
37:50
laughter and so I was worried that like jumping think I
37:52
probably I was going to be like all of my favorite is your
37:54
phone? And I'm going to keep you guys
37:56
and it was like nope, no, this is just as good.
38:00
I think he gives the single best performance of a yeah.
38:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's the doctor turning
38:14
turning things around, right. He's like, oh I know how to win,
38:17
right? And he's like, I figured it out.
38:18
It's the electric eels. I know what I'm doing and you
38:21
know, I've got storytelling and I've got nothing there and they
38:24
react. The hair is just like they were
38:26
gonna I'll stall. They, that this is.
38:27
This is his plan. Yeah.
38:29
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
38:32
Absolutely. Yeah.
38:34
I adore the fact that I use the Benny Hill theme tune as well.
38:41
Yeah, I mean I grew up in Australia so
38:58
Looks like we kind of had an action set piece.
39:02
Yeah, yeah, that's right montage.
39:43
Okay. And this Dreadful.
39:49
So do you think this? This is literally the, the, you
39:51
know, the mock-up that they create?
39:55
Yeah. Do you think that's supposed to
39:57
be like, the, the epitome of like the crap.
39:59
Doctor Who monster. It's totally.
41:01
It's evenly as people going a and in the the total shift here.
41:06
Yeah, you know, it takes a show of some confidence to go from
41:12
like, an outright kind of false too young tragedy in a half.
41:17
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and I mean, but again, I
41:21
think that's, that's one of the joys of drops of you, right?
41:23
Because, like, I think like a lot of like American TV is like,
41:25
well, it's either a comedy or a drama, but you kind of grow and
41:29
know where there's one thing I love about, you know, not just
41:31
got to bit like you know lots of British Indian song is like you
41:33
can mix and match all the time and you're still laughing and
41:36
crying at the same time and then doctors really good at that and
41:40
that because episode 40 play great.
41:42
I think the laser is has several moments where it does like like
41:46
a moment of Triumph and then it undercuts it like the bit in the
41:51
Christmas Invasion where the see cracks are going.
41:54
Yeah, we got away and then bang bang back.
41:56
And it just brings a straight down again and it happens here
42:00
as well. Yeah, but because we've gotten
42:02
to know a shield are and she's really likable, it's
42:06
distracting. It's poignant.
42:13
Yeah, there's also little lines in here where like, you know,
42:15
when you like yeah, you want to this.
42:16
And it's like that some weight more resonant line when you know
42:20
where this is going. But the like it was at the time
42:23
and it also has little hints of like your future stuff with her.
42:26
You know, when he said, he said earlier, he said like, you'll
42:28
never have to leave this Village and like that would never raise
42:31
much more powerful when you replace.
42:32
She's gonna live forever. Yeah, yeah.
42:36
You, uh, you said that you interviewed the writer of this
42:39
episode. Yes.
42:40
In a column. Yes, I know.
42:42
I did a little commentary for a moment later expressed with them
42:45
and yeah, he is amazing at structure of like he was even
42:48
talking about things like he's like yeah, we had a budget
42:50
thing. We couldn't include one thing.
42:51
Therefore, we have to restructure the whole script,
42:53
you know. It's like, you can't just take
42:54
her over it. You have to like, work, and they
42:56
need to go back to the beginning and start again.
42:59
Yeah. So here we see the CGI monster.
43:32
Yeah, I mean, he's like what trickery is?
43:34
This is all yeah, cuz I'm about to take place you like yes, it's
43:37
all trickery. Everyone is cooking everyone.
43:40
And, and basically, like your you can't take on the mire with
43:44
weapons, but you can't take all the doctor with trickery, right?
43:47
It's really the lesson here, like the doctor is the ultimate
43:49
trickster character, and if I get you want, you wanna catch me
43:53
with stories? Like, I will catch you right
43:54
back. Like that is.
43:56
Okay. Now I'm starting to see why you
43:58
call this. The definitive Doctor Who Story,
44:01
yes. Yeah, it's great.
44:03
I mean, does it. It doesn't shout it from the
44:05
rooftops, but it is so layer in a very subtle way.
44:08
Yeah. Yes.
44:14
Gosh, I can't handle this death. Very sad.
44:17
Yes yes. I know.
44:22
Yeah, they visit that. It's interesting, the
44:25
integration of Technology. Yeah, and this is the key,
44:45
right? It's the reputation, right?
44:47
It's like, you're always like, how important is your invitation
44:49
to you and any like yeah, reputation is really colorful,
44:53
right? Because if you're if you're not
44:54
me, you don't have to prove yourself every time you just
44:57
come in and like, you know, look this time and people generally
44:59
roll over and this is like the great thing here is like the
45:04
Maya have to pay the price not just for you know my team's out
45:07
this Village like this humiliation Across the Universe.
45:12
Yeah, exactly. Come and you don't, you try and
45:48
change the structure so you make it less desirable for them to
45:51
invade but like, you know, you don't you don't killing them and
45:55
I like this a lot. This is this is sort of
45:56
pacifistic Doctor, Who, yes it is.
46:00
That's obviously something that's been discussed, Ad
46:03
nauseam across Doctor Who we do because he's had moments where
46:07
he has been a pacifist and he said Mira's way is used more
46:10
violent ways. I think I am more towards the
46:15
pacifist. East side.
46:17
I feel like when he's holding a gun and when that's the option,
46:21
the end of the invasion of time, the end of the two doctors, you
46:25
know, that's Usually you wanted to be better than that.
46:30
Only your entry smell. That's right.
46:31
Yeah and you also let you know you've got a million like you
46:34
know, heroism comes like you know you got Captain Kirk,
46:38
you've got like you know this kind of thing.
46:57
Reflection, and he starts to realize and you kind of like,
47:02
you know, it's amazing because like, what is he doing?
47:04
Like he has nothing right? You think your collagen or told
47:06
us those Sonic start? What's he doing?
47:07
He's looking in the mirror, right?
47:09
And in that mirror is his moment to realize and what he realizes
47:13
of course like why do I have the face that I have?
47:16
And I think a lot of people think this is like, oh well, we
47:19
had to explain why he didn't help with also been a previous
47:21
story, okay. You didn't need to explain that
47:24
at all. In fact, they did explain it a
47:25
little bit in deep breath. He says, I, you know, Who found
47:28
his face for me? So they acknowledge it.
47:29
And I was like, oh, that's enough.
47:31
Right? Yeah.
47:31
We college that youth the know like, you know, he looks like
47:34
somebody used to months new or whatever, but it doesn't matter,
47:36
I didn't. And I don't think they needed to
47:38
do this. And I know that Crema night when
47:40
we were at he's got we going to be debate about it and he's
47:42
like, he's like, oh honestly suspend service.
47:44
We didn't need to like, explain away a continuity because I
47:47
don't think explaining way at all.
47:48
I think it is taking something that's there, which is like he
47:51
is an activist caecilius and making it incredibly powerful.
47:58
Those that if I ever hear the doctors will be the Clara for
48:01
moral guidance. I he's like look at you, you
48:03
never give up. You're looking, you've got
48:04
kindness and so on and he's like that should be the doctor.
48:07
Right. That's normally who the doctor
48:09
is and people look up to him for that and he's like, no I'm just
48:12
going to get my box and run away and so on and like you know and
48:17
you know the doctor running away.
48:18
That's what dr. Dobbs Rocky.
48:20
And she's and I speak like either and yeah and
49:00
so I love this this to be so powerful.
49:02
This is the moment where it stops being the typical Doctor,
49:04
Who story even if I love to be the coach is story and it
49:07
becomes you get these flush back to deep breath and you know it's
49:11
like like weight and and he's like I know why I chose it.
49:15
I know I know why I chose this. I'm telling myself something and
49:19
and it's just amazing to see David technology like holy crap
49:22
like you know that he I got too emotional.
49:31
That's the reason why. You know, I love I love that
49:34
floor of him. That's right.
49:36
It's really a knowledge of the, the 12th doctors weakness.
49:40
Yeah. But he certainly seems like to
49:41
hold me to the mark and he's like because he's not strong
49:44
enough to hold himself to the mark.
49:45
All right, he needs. He needs a stronger doctor which
49:48
is the tenth of a Tenth. Doctors ridiculous.
49:50
He opened himself. And the Twelfth Doctor is not.
49:53
And in fact, the very first thing, the whole Proctor does
49:55
look kind of like interests first, you see almost is like
49:58
The 11th doctor, makes a phone call to help.
50:00
Yeah, of course. Yeah, and it's kind of like
50:02
Nicki. He's doing things that come from
50:04
stars and, and each time it's, you know, it's a terrible
50:07
mistake like, yeah. And also, the other thing too,
50:11
is this is a brand new doctor, right?
50:14
The 11th doctor was really the last of the doctors, right?
50:16
And you got his holy life cycle track, and at the end of the
50:21
time of that sort of the do. So this is, what's the first
50:24
thing he does with his Newfound, kind of incarnation.
50:27
He makes a Google Calendar. The thing, it's like, he should
50:30
not be bringing your shoulder back to life and he knows it,
50:33
and he knows it. Almost immediately after has
50:34
become help himself because he's so invested and, and even, but
50:39
since turns out the story's not over yet and you like, yeah.
50:41
It's, you know, what back to stories again.
50:43
And, you know this, we know how dangerous turns out, we know how
50:47
powerful they are, and he's probably doing something you
50:49
shouldn't be doing. Instead, of course, he's very
50:51
human. We would all do it.
50:52
Yeah, you can bring this loved one back to life.
50:56
Who wouldn't do that, right? And you know, that's Incredibly
50:58
powerful. I love how it holds him
51:01
throughout the lesson. The rest of the season.
51:03
Mike. Yeah.
51:04
That one decision. Yeah.
51:07
Yeah, exactly. Right entire.
51:09
Yeah. Yes sir.
51:13
Okay, so he she says why did you give her too?
51:16
Yeah so the Assumption being that she would give that someone
51:19
else and they would live yet for what happened to the other one.
51:23
Oh that's in the woman who lives.
51:25
Okay. So yeah it's it's not fun during
51:27
world like they give it to the other guy, but what happens is
51:30
you keep basically? It's used up and saving it so he
51:32
doesn't need anymore. Yeah, it takes two days to get
52:34
back to the Tardis too far gone, and it's sort of like, you know,
52:39
we're leaving this tent and he feels really terrible.
52:43
He's gonna be like here. He's like, yeah, I'm angry.
52:45
And it's funny because he doesn't look like he's angry.
52:47
He looks like he's like having his mode of Revelation, and
52:49
compassion, and so on, and yet. She's like, no, I was really
52:54
angry. That's why I did what I did and
52:55
I should have done it. He said he might to David
52:57
Tennant at all. It's time to see He broke the
52:59
rules and he could do when everyone hates you.
53:01
So I'm going to do whatever I want.
53:38
Right. And she's like, you know, I
53:39
don't care about your high and mighty time, loyalty thing, just
53:42
need to say somebody anybody to save them.
53:44
That's what the really going back for.
53:46
And yeah. Flowers are kind of aspires to
53:49
be here, doesn't she? Yes, that's right.
53:52
Exactly. Yeah, I went it was done
53:54
originally was very much like you need someone to stop you.
53:56
That's what her role was. And Clara will not stop him and
54:00
it's made us for each other, right?
54:02
And so Clarity some payment you have copper vessel.
54:04
Gets her killed the, the follow effectual, the The sort of going
54:09
through time around the shooter. Like the shirts, did not really
54:12
have the facility to do something like that before.
54:15
And it's just, I think it's I've heard of people criticize that
54:19
effect. Well, I think it's time really.
54:22
And the music, I do, you think what a performance?
54:25
Yeah, I mean illustrates passage of time, so beautifully
54:29
illustrates both, you know, the join wondering like that.
54:32
Yeah, she's alive break and like, oh, she's gonna live
54:34
forever. Like okay.
54:35
And then And yeah.
54:51
I even like you know what enough is he dumb?
54:54
I remember is that the gamut of emotions I was going through
54:56
outside are great. You know she's experienced
54:59
always wonder across time. Oh shit.
55:02
Oh, this isn't good. Yeah, she's angry.
55:06
And you like you couldn't not go back to that character.
55:09
Could you get that for ya? Yeah I think there is there is a
55:13
promise there that she's going to be back in the very next
55:16
episode of fact, okay? So that's that's That brings the
55:21
girl who died to a close. What would you say taking out
55:26
the Revelation about the doctors face.
55:31
What's your favorite thing about this?
55:33
Hello. Yeah, but Point, without without
55:35
that Revelation probably make my question is actually my favorite
55:50
Random shoulder like he's standing up and say no which is
55:54
like what? Rose did back in the, you know,
55:57
doomsday don't worry. I'm adding the way.
56:01
So yeah. With your that that was the
56:03
definition of what to means. G Dr. Something stands up and
56:07
says, no, right? Let this is what a show with us
56:09
without saying that she stands up and says no which I live in
56:11
life and so I like them up but on the other hand I really like
56:15
that two-minute opening to divorce from the story but like
56:21
Because you really see that in super fast forward is very
56:24
skillfully done. It seems like, it's just a
56:26
really disposable like little free tires, doesn't it?
56:29
But it's real. Yeah, I got one more question
56:32
for you. Yeah.
56:50
You could have dropped them spine altogether, they just land
56:53
of walkout is Vikings, you've done like they didn't and I
56:56
think that's to really illustrate the whole structure
56:58
of the rest of the story. There is just something very
57:00
excited about being dropped. In the middle of a story that's
57:03
already taken place and having to catch up.
57:06
Yeah, I mean it's very, very close to New Adventures.
57:08
We do right? They know.
57:09
Yes, I'm to go for rent. Yeah, exactly.
57:13
Do you think Clara was always heading to let her eventual fate
57:19
in the face The Raven? Like obviously, they're, they're
57:21
building to this in this season. Yes.
57:24
Yes. Because I think, I think the one
57:27
thing the car has not taken in his the doctor regenerates,
57:31
right? Even though she saw him doing
57:32
this, you make multiple doctors in The Day of the Doctor, right?
57:35
Like, you know, she was kind of in a bit of denial about it all
57:37
this year, the coupon that I have a crush on that they all
57:39
kind of old and that's not. So she didn't know that like
57:42
this is this is the doctors Ace up his sleeve, right?
57:45
It's like things really get too bad he can just regenerate and
57:49
way he could read it. Gerrate a human will die and
57:51
that's exactly what happened in face the Raven with.
57:53
That was the doctor instead of her.
57:54
If he take a tattoo of, he would just regenerate them and she
57:57
can't answer that. That's the fundamental that she
58:00
makes. So, she was always going to make
58:02
just the mistake, that's too big.
58:04
That's because she's a cute thing was just to get too big
58:07
and yet she still gets a happy ending, I guess.
58:12
I mean, they come in, they say, don't know.
58:14
She's always going to end up on the street.
58:17
Yeah, actually. Yes interesting.
58:19
Yeah. I still think it kind of works.
58:23
But yeah, I think it could be, it could be better.
58:24
I mean, Hellbenders the complicated story.
58:26
I'm sorry. Okay.
58:27
I feel like I'm in heaven saying is so amazing and be kind of go
58:30
to help and some it's like, yeah, like I appreciate what
58:34
they tried to do but they don't pull it off for me, but it's
58:37
like, yes. And I do I mean, I like a lot of
58:41
the end up like it. Do you like it in the end?
58:43
It's, you know, I mean it's the payback for donor again, right?
58:46
So, you don't like that, you know, like David Tennant, just,
58:50
you know, he just wiped his memory without asking, you know,
58:53
she doesn't want to be just like, that's really
59:16
Which is brilliant. Yeah.
59:18
And so you know and they don't do it through like Clara knows
59:21
best and she's going to do it but they do it through like
59:23
okay. You know, like it's a 50/50
59:26
chance. We don't know who's gonna lose
59:27
their memory and so it looks much better come.
59:30
And I also do like that, like when Clara ends is, you know,
59:33
it's a, it's a very feminized kind of, like you don't earn
59:36
more thing, right? It's like, you know, it's the,
59:38
it's two women probably run the universe in a todos, any, like
59:40
that's also why I love it. It's really hot.
59:45
We almost got bat in the series. Coming.
59:47
But unfortunately they are bringing in the man again.
59:49
Yeah, yeah yeah, good things about it and I think
1:00:16
Yeah, so that just leaves me to say, thank you very much for
1:00:22
coming on today. I'm kind of hoping I can entice
1:00:26
you back at another point, but I'll ask you off camera about
1:00:29
that. I would love to I think this is
1:00:33
one of the most fun things I've ever done with celebrities and
1:00:36
stuff.