Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 835: What Really Happens After You Write the Script with Michael K. Snyder

Transcript

IFH 835: What Really Happens After You Write the Script with Michael K. Snyder · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: thirty five, Cinema Should Make You Forget You're sitting in
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: a theater, Roman Polanski.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the film biz.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur
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  Speaker 2: How to turn your independent film into a profitable business.
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  Speaker 2: It's harder today than ever before for independent filmmakers to
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  Speaker 2: filmbizbook dot com. That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: My next guest is a graduate of full Sell University's
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Film and Entertainment business programs. He's a founder of Crash Films, Inc.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: He's an independent film producer. He's a screenwriter. This guy
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: has done so many crazy, awesome things, and we're gonna
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: get into all that, and we're gonna talk a lot
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: about screenwriting and development, and also we talk a little
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: bit about networking too, because he didn't just go out
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: to la without a plan, without knowing anybody. He actually
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: had a plan in place, and he's doing such some
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: really awesome things, And why don't we just go right
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: into it with guests Michael ky Snyder. Mike you were.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: You were the guest on the first ever episode. The
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: episode is now considered a part of the Lost Episodes.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: The first three are considered the Lost Episodes. You were
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: number one. You were my first guest, and it's so
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: good three years later to have you actually back on
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: so Mike again, I want to say thank you very
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: much for joining us. And it's kind of funny how
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: we've come full circle now, all the way back from
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: three years ago.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Man, I'm so happy to be back on the show.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: You know, it is it is. It's kind of funny
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: that we that we have come full circle.
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: You're totally right, and just thinking about some of the
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: progressions that we've both made in our careers and how
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: things have changed.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: It's just really interesting. Yeah.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: And it's funny too because when I when we lasted
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: the interview again, it was it was remotely like we're
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: doing right now, but I was in a actual studio
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: doing it and I had nothing but problems there, and
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: now I'm doing it from my office and I and
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: you know, it's just ten thousand times better because I
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: remember when we had the episode and I listened to
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: it and I was like, what the hell happen here?
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: And it was that freaking recorder was not would never
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: work right. So I for the first two episodes did
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I use that recorder and this really awesome radio station
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: was sound proof. And then all of a sudden, now
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: it's like, you know, I, I mean, just even technology,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: how it's improved in three freaking years is unbelievable.
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: Crazy, Yeah, it is unbelievable.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: So, you know, Mike, since that episode is a little lost,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: actually it is lost. Sorry, this is the episode is lost.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: You know, I want to dig a little into your
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: background for those of you, for those listeners who aren't
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: really aware of, you know, all the things that you've done.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: So you know, you were attually a graduate of Full
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Sale University. You graduated in what twenty ten?
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: Oh man, I graduated Full Tail's film program in two thousand, twenty.
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: Eleven, and then I graduated their master's program a.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Couple of years after that.
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: So I moved out to LA in about two thousand
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: and fourteen, twenty fifteen.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, so then, uh so, see again I just
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: found out I even know you graduated from the master's program,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: So see I'm finding out. Yeah, so so you moved
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: out to LA Now we actually met through through trauma,
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: through Lloyd Kaufman, and you know what, while and that
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: was while you were actually at full sale. So when
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: you were at full sale, do you think you know
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: that you had a lot more opportunities that you wouldn't
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: have had anywhere else. So it sort of like to
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: work on a lot of these different movies.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: I don't really think that, you know, film school in
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: general matters as much as a lot of people want
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: to say it does.
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: I think, you know, given what I know.
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: Now, if I could go back, I probably would have
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: tried to work a little bit harder and high school
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: and tried to get into like USC or UCLA, just
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: because I feel like, you know, it's really all about
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: your network, and if you can get in out here
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: a little earlier, it just makes it so much easier
• 5:21
  Speaker 5: to meet executives or meat agents or meat managers or
• 5:24
  Speaker 5: producers because a lot of them are going to be
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: in the same class as you. Whereas if you're you know,
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: in Florida and you go into a school that anybody
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: you know, it's pretty much paying to go to because
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: it's private. It's it's just not the same pool of resources.
• 5:40
  Speaker 5: That's not to say that they didn't help me get
• 5:42
  Speaker 5: jobs out here and introduce you to a lot of people,
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: but I would say that a lot of what I
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: would consider to be my own success is just based
• 5:51
  Speaker 5: on me reaching out to people myself.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: You know, there's an old saying your net worth is sorry,
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: your network is your.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Net worth, and that's one hundred per century.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: It really is, my honest to God, even even if
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: you do something as obvious as like crowdfunding obviously and
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: you go out and you're like, well, hey, I need
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: people to to to invest in this project, or if
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: you're doing something like even this podcast or even doing
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: something like like releasing a film, if you don't have
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: a network built up, you really don't have any way
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: to really distribute the thing unless you're literally trying to
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: build it as you're doing it, which is, uh, it
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: was just like shooting yourself in the foot.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: That's absolutely right.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: So so when when when you say you should have
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: you wish you had applied yourself in high school? Uh
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: to go out to like USC and stuff like that.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, no, Mike, I trust me, man, I feel you.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: I did the same thing in high school, man, I honestly,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: and when senior year came around, I didn't give a
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: shit about anything, that's right, I I literally man Like,
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: my teachers were like, Dave, if you know, you don't
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: apply yourself anymore, and I'm like, I don't care. I
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: just want to get the help out of here.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: Exactly. That's why I was.
• 6:58
  Speaker 5: I would I was, I would like that before or
• 7:00
  Speaker 5: I was like that might be eighth grade. So you know, yeah,
• 7:04
  Speaker 5: I went to two different high schools and I you know,
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: the funny part is when I was a junior in
• 7:10
  Speaker 5: high school, I.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Cook in English.
• 7:13
  Speaker 5: I was in an English honors class because I finally
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: had a teacher who kind of convinced me to apply
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: myself with writing. And she actually did an informational interview
• 7:21
  Speaker 5: assignment where you had to reach out to a professional
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: in your fields or where you wanted to go into
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: the career you wanted to go in. So I was like, well, shit, man,
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: I want to be a you know, writer director.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: I mean, Spielberg's not going to return my calls, you know.
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: I can't really reach.
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: Out with Scorsese, So who can I reach out to?
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: And that's actually how I met Boyd with trauma and
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: started working like the conventions in Florida with him, which
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: is just really funny. And I think that was a
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: moment where my mind kind of opened up a little
• 7:49
  Speaker 5: bit where it was like, Okay, maybe she just focus
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: on this and focus on filmmaking and writing in your network.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: So when I went to high school, I mean obviously
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: in Florida, when you got to a high there's not
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: like a there's not even like a film history class,
• 8:03
  Speaker 5: but like a film theory, like collective.
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: It's all just the brass tacks high school stuff.
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: And I would there was no way for me to
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: apply myself in the career that I really wanted to
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: except for in this one creative writing class, you know.
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: And I think there's something to say about the arts
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: programs in schools with that, because I wouldn't be in
• 8:23
  Speaker 5: the situation I'm in right now if I hadn't, you know,
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: taking that course and made that decision. And I wish
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: there was more of those types of opportunities for people
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: young students.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it would show you that there's more out there
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: than just sort of like you know, you know options A,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: B and C. That's right, so and you know that's
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: something too that you know, even when I was in
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: high school, man, we would always watch these movies, all
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: these freaking movies. We would go to like all the
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: local video stores. You know, most people who listen to
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: this podcasts know what those were, like the Blockbusters Hollywood videos,
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, and stuff like that. And then but
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: but you know, we would always write these movies. We'd
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: go out and every Friday, Saturday night or whatever, we'd
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: go out, we'd we'd just be watching all sorts of
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: different movies and all these crazy freaking stuff. And it
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: didn't even dawn on me at that point, dude, that
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: I could make a you know, I could do this
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: for a living. I just figured that everyone who wrote
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: and made movies was like, you know, granted these special
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: privileges by like the President of the United States or
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: some crap.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean, right right exactly. It's like
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: it's it's the unattainable goal.
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: You know it's out there, but you have no what
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: you have no idea how to you know, map your
• 9:33
  Speaker 5: road success in that field. There's there weren't a lot
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: of resources, you know, and it's crazy. It was literally
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: like you go when you watch movies and you think,
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: you know. I remember when I was ten years old,
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: I was watching Close Encounters and I'm like, this is great,
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: you know, and it was the first time my parents
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: ever were like, well, you know, someone wrote that movie.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and now back to the the show.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: And it was like a light bulb off of my brand,
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: like somebody writes movies. You know. It's it's just the
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: craziest thing.
• 10:07
  Speaker 5: But now I think there's a lot a few more
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: resources just years later, and not that many years, but
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: there really weren't.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: When I was in high school, Yeah, it was sort
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: of like, you know, you have to go to college,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: you have to do this stuff. And when I went
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: to it, you know, and when I went to college,
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: I didn't know. I didn't know anything exactly what I
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: wanted to major in, and you know, I bounced around
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: from major to major. But I was always, you know,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: in my spare time, I was practicing writing, and I
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: actually the first book I ever got on screenwriting was
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: a book called The Screenwriter's Bible by David Trodier. Yes,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: and I bought that and that just sort of like
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: opened the floodgates. And now I was like, you know,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: getting different movies and trying to figure out, you know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: how to actually how they wrote that stuff and how
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: how I do it. I'll still do it, but but
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: then you start to realize, oh my god, there are
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: people out there who actually make movies. And I actually
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: and that. I guess maybe it was like two thousand
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: and six seven I actually really got into it and
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: I was like, you know, talking to independent filmmakers. I
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: found them on on on my Space.
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: Remember my Space, Mike, Yeah, man, yeah, unfortunately I do.
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: I think mine's like, like I think I went went
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: to great lengths to delete mine.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: I Mine was actually deleted for me.
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: And I got to notice one day they were like,
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: we're gonna just terminate all these unused MySpace accounts. Yours
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: is one of them. And I said, honestly, burn that
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: guy to that, burned that thing to the ground.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, please take it away. Don't let anyone see this.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: It's so true. It's a it's I have a friend
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: of mine who still has or he had one, and
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: I was like, my god, man, I go to that
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: that that's like a something from your childhood. That's like
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: an embarrassing moment. You're just like, please never bring that
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: up again. But uh, but you know, I actually I
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: actually met him from filmmakers through my Space and uh
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: and and some of these guys were actually in like
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Jersey and New York and uh, you know, I never
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: really put two and two together that there there's there's
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: a lot more there wasn't. There was a lot more
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: in the in the whole bigger area. I don't want
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: to say PA because it really wasn't that many in
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: PA at that time. But but like New York and Jersey,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: there was a few people. Most didn't respond back because
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: most were looking for like producers that could fund and
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: give them money.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Some actually money, right exactly, And most actually did, though,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: you know, come back and say Okay, here's what you
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: can do. And then I just you know, went from there.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: But but you know, what I'm trying to say with
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: all this is it's similar to what you did with Lloyd,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: and you reached out to him and said, you know,
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: I can, you know, I should see how I could
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: actually work with this guy. And you you made an
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: opportunity for yourself.
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I took a class assignment and I
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: reached out on my shop and the email I was like, hey,
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: I want to do an interview with you over the phone,
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: you know, and just talk about your career and and
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: how you've made something out of nothing and continue to
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: do so. And he responded back with a cell phone number,
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: and that was that was it. And then it was
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: just really up to me to keep him pinned down
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: and and and stay on top of him as much
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: as possible, you know, whenever he was in town or
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: I went to New York and that he saw him,
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: you know, and different things.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: It was. It was just to keep to keep the
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: relationship a lot.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, now with technology we're able to actually,
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: you know, keep in contact with people a lot better
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: and so and and also it's a double edged sword
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: because then you're you're getting too much contact with with
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: every regard get get you once, right.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: But you know, but you made an opportunity. You reach out,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: even if it was for a class or and you
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: made sure to make a contact and I think that's
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: so important and and I think and also you did
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: it the professional way. I mean, I just had Whitney
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Davis in the podcast for the second time and we
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: talked about networking the right way. And you know, the
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: first time that you you contact somebody, you shouldn't be
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: asking for something, right, No, totally and uh and and
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: you know you you actually were offering something for Lloyd
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: and he took you up on that. And then again
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: now you know, and here we are all these years
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: later because and because when you when you were on
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: that Trouma film, we met through that, because that's when
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: I met Lloyd. Uh, and then we started talking and
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: then I think, uh, yeah, yeah, that's how we met.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: And then then uh, there's you know, I've met a
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: few other people through Lloyd Andoyd. You know, Lloyd's always
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: doing something on independent films.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: He's the connector, man, I mean, he's the great connector,
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: you know. I mean he just if he's able to
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: put you on the phone or in the room with
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: somebody that you want to be on the phone or
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: in the room with, he'll he'll do whatever he can
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: to be the one to do it.
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: Who does it, you know, And and then he'll take
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: all credit for it, which he rightfully deserves. Yeah.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: And I remember reading his his independent film book and
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: it was just absolutely hilarious. And I was like, see,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: he's he's he's making independent film, you know, fun it's
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: not taken too seriously. And you know his and when
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: he was in the pot podcast, he uh he said
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: he founded Trauma in Prison with Michael Hurts. Uh and
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: he was Michael Hurts's bitch and uh and they founded
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Trauma in Prison and uh, I'm like wow. And afterwards,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: the after the interview, I said to like, Lloyd, do
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: you ever think that someone's gonna listen to this for
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: the first time, not hearing of humor trauma and think, wow,
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: that guy really started moving prisoness in prison?
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: He probably, like I hope, so, you know, not far
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: from the.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Truth, you know, yeah, yeah, seriously. Uh, you know, I
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: I've you know, and and Lloyd is right, he's a
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: very good connector. He's always connected you know, different people
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: and uh, you know again because he connected us and
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: and I I've been on different film sets multiple times.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And you so you know, after you got off this,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: you know, just to continue your story after you got
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: off you know, the working on trauma, and you know,
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: you sort of you went back to Full Sale. You know,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: at what point did you want to did you realize
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: that you wanted to go back for your for a
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: master's at full.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: At the beginning, just because it was kind of part
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: of the deal with my parents, and just the way
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: that they structured their programs. It was like if you
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: it was like they had a deal, like it was
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: like a bogo, like if you buy one degree, you know,
• 16:18
  Speaker 5: we can give you this second degree at at a
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: certain cost that was thousands of dollars less than it
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: would have been had you decided to do it later.
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: Because every so many years they restructure their programs and
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: they changed the cost. So it just happened to be
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: that when we sat down with a representative of Full Sale,
• 16:37
  Speaker 5: they were just they were like, now, if you want
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: to take the master's program in business, you know we can.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: We can.
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: We can go ahead and lump it in with the
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: film program and it'll end up costing you less money
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: later on.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: And you know, it was like it was like no time.
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: You know, it was so quick because it's such an
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: accelerated program that my parents were like, you might as well,
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: and I mean at that point it was kind of
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: whatever they wanted to do.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: I was really doing it more for them.
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: I think I kind of knew that I needed to
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: move somewhere and just start working, but you know, to
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: keep everything cool at home and to put a di
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: plumb on the wall.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, we'll go ahead and do that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: And you know, again, it's good that you had a
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: plan because honestly, like you can become like me and
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: you know, obviously have no plan and just kind of
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: figure your way out. But but no, it's good the unit.
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: But man, there's not really a plan out there, you know.
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: It's like you just have to figure it out. There's
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: not really a right or wrong way to do this.
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: I think you just have to you have to do it.
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: You have to just set goals and hit those goals.
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: And those goals can be anything, as long as you
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: know that at the end of that list there's some
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: sort of success and whatever that successes and not be
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: monetary success. It could just be moving to Los Angeles
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: or moving to New York, or getting a show, a
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: gig on a show.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: Or anything. You know, there's not really there's not really
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: a way to teach this.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: And you mentioned, you know, moving to LA And that's
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: actually what I want to ask next, is you know, yeah,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: so you got them and then you moved out to LA.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I think you said at twenty fourteen is when.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: You moved down it was yeah. I mean, I'm horrible
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: at dates, so I'm probably butchering it. Well, let's just
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: say that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: And basically what happened is after I was done with
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: the film program and I went to the Masters, all
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: of my film school friends had already moved out to
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: Los Angeles. So by the time I was done, you know,
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: I had couches to sleep on, which is really key
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: when you're moving from you know, podunk, Florida to one
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: of the most expensive cities in the nation. Is it's
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: nice to be able to find somewhere to sleep while
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: you're getting your footing or finding your footing right. And
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: so I hooked up with the career development program at
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: Full Sale and they got me the internship out here,
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: and I called on my friends and he was like, man,
• 18:45
  Speaker 5: you can come out here. You can sleep on my
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: couch for as long as you want or need to.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: You know, I know that you're not getting paid anything
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: with your internship. Just just get out here, Like that's
• 18:52
  Speaker 5: all we wanted. We just want you out here. So
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: I flew out.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: And moved in with him and started by internship. I mean,
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: it was interesting.
• 18:59
  Speaker 5: I was running a ten thousand square foot warehouse in
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: downtown Los Angeles for more Tyrannee and Anthony Revevar and
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: Sean Wing and a few other actors and Nathan Heeney,
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: who's a great director of photography now, and they basically
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: they pulled their resources. They rented this massive warehouse right
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: and it's like really old warehouse in downtown, and they
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: needed some young kids to run it.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: So there was one other guy who was managing it,
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: and I interned there and after a couple.
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: Of months they hired me on as his assistant, and
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: then after a couple of months, I got his job.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: So I ended up doing that for.
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: A couple of years and opened a second location in
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: Burbank with Stacey Chaer, who everyone knows is Guarantino was
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: produced and partner or was and her husband Carrie Brown.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: Who's a really good friend, and we did.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: A lot of really cool stuff, man, And it was
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: a lot of fun and I got to meet a
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: lot of really great people my first couple of years
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: out here, which is always nice.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you mentioned having couches to sleep on.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: That was actually be one of one of my questions
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: because having that networks as everyone already moved out there,
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: you know, and having those couches to sleep on and
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: places to crash and you know, yeah, exactly, it is key.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: And again are your network is your net worth? And
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: uh again you you're able to actually you know, uh
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: go out there and not just be like all right,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: so what next. I mean I've had friends Mike who've
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: gone out to LA and sort of been like with
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: with no plan and been like, Okay, what next.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: It's like, well, you're gonna You're gonna suffer if you
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: do that.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, You're gonna really really reality is gonna hit you
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: very fast, totally. So you now you mentioned you got
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: the you know, the warehouse job. Now at this point,
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: were you always writing scripts and did you maybe have
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: a few scripts to show two different like maybe producers agencies.
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I started writing screenplays when I was
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: probably eleven years old. Pennant Paper then I figured out
• 21:12
  Speaker 5: how to adjust the macros and word. Then I figured out,
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: you know, you could get celtics and all these freeware.
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: Then I found out that there were all these forums
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: and independent script hosting sites online.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: So I was always putting material out there.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: I mean, I was just pushing short films and short
• 21:27
  Speaker 5: stories and really shitty features out there and whatever I
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: could to get reads and get comments, because that's you know,
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: structure is key from that point of view. So by
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: the time I moved to Los Angeles, I had some
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: features kind of under my belt, and I had one
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: in particular that I was I think the most proud
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: I've been working on the hardest, and basically I started
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: reaching out to people. And while I was out here
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: for those first couple of years, I was also producing
• 21:56
  Speaker 5: short films because I had this awesome ten thousand square
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: foot warehouse that would be rented out for events and
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: films and stuff, you know, half of the year, and
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: then it would just be sitting there for the other
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: half of the year. So I would get my buddies
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: who had write cameras and lenses and all these different things,
• 22:11
  Speaker 5: and we would produce short films and we'd write them
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: and produce them. And I had two that premiere at
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: the can Film Festival, you know, two different years. So
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: I used that and I used like kind of my background,
• 22:22
  Speaker 5: and I sent an email to Carson who runs Script Shadow.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: Some people love them, some people hate them, whatever, and
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: I attached a feature that I'd written that I was
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: pretty proud of, and he agreed to host it on
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: his site for one of the you know, independent.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: Hostings that he does.
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: And I would say I got one hundred emails from
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: people that were basically, this sucks. You know, you don't
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: know what you're talking about. You're a dumb millennial. I
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: mean literally that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: And I got one email from somebody who ended up
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: being my manager.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: But you know, am I want to ask you about
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: the manager email on a second, but I want to
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: before I do, I want to ask you why why
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: do you think you got so much hate mail? Do
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: you think it was from a lot of.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Ang we No.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: I have my own theory about why you got so
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: much hate mail. And my theory is this, there's a
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: lot of people who have unrealized dreams and whenever they
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: kind of see someone coming down the pipeline, it's like
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: a chance to sort of almost like if I could
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: throw off all this frustration and anger and resentment on
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: to somebody else for just even five seconds, I'm gonna
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: take that shot. That's my theory about it. But why
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: do you think you got so much of those angry emails? Yeah?
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I think it's the combination of that, and I think.
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: That, you know, I may have come off as a
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: little little arrogant because I was like, look, you know,
• 23:42
  Speaker 5: I've produced these two short films.
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm like twenty five, twenty four, twenty five.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: Years old, and I just could really benefit from hosting
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: the script YadA, YadA, YadA. And I think at the
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: combination of people miss reading my inventions and also just
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: what you're saying. It's like armchairs, you know, screenwright reviews,
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: screen screenplay reviewers. They're sitting there and they're rewriting movies
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: in their heads and on their sofa, but they're not
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: actually out there hitting the pavement. And because of that
• 24:10
  Speaker 5: inability to motivate themselves, they they're haters.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that, That's what I think. It is that
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: they they're very angry, they're very you.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: Know, it's shame.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: A lot of the a lot of people in this business.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of awesome people. And you and I
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: talk about this, you know, uh, because we talk a lot,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: and we talk about how sometimes this business stereotyped is
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: everyone is bitter, angry, out to get you. But there's
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: a ton of awesome people in this business and there
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: are many and it's just and but but it's unfortunate,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: like situations like that where it's like you really see
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: the sort of dark side where it's like, what the
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: hell is this. There was actually a screenwriting group that
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: used to be a part of on Facebook. It was
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: a Facebook group and I think it was it was
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: set a private or whatever, and I remember people would
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: post in there and they would post stuff that was
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: completely wrong, and you would sit there and you try
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: to correct it, you know, and just not not like
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: say okay, you're wrong, but just say hey, there's another
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: way to do this. They would jump all over people,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: and finally I said, why the hell am I part
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: of this freaking group anymore?
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: And it's it can't all be negative, yeah, you know,
• 25:17
  Speaker 5: it has to be.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: It has to be.
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: There has to be optimism because it's such a hard
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: industry to break into that if all people are bringing
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: is negativity. You're just going to stop someone from potentially
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: a cheating in your dream.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: It's almost too like when when uh, you know, when
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: you're actually producing a film, you know, if you have
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: people around you who are constantly just being like problems
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: spotters and not problem solvers, you know, there's those are
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: the type of people that you got to, like, jettisid
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: from the project as soon as possible.
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: Oh, totally, man, it's it's it's you can boil it
• 25:50
  Speaker 5: down to you know, don't bring me the problem, bring
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: me the solution. Really.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you hit the nail right on the head
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: mic and you know, so so as you sort of
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: go back to tell my script shadow, you got one
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: email that was from a manager who said, you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: I want to talk to you.
• 26:07
  Speaker 5: So yeah, it was like, I think you showed a
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: lot of talent on the page, a little bit about me.
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: He gave me his background and he was like, let's
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: you know, let's grab some coffee. And we went and
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: we got coffee, and I thought he was great though.
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: He was really knowledgeable and nice guy, and you know,
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: I kind of just pitched myself as hard as I
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: could and at.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: The end of the meeting, he was kind of like,
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: all right, what do you want to do?
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: And at this point I had an idea of what
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: I wanted my next project to be, and I had
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: I chose something that I felt was, you know, probably
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: not going to get made, but if I could partner
• 26:43
  Speaker 5: with the right person, I could get in front of
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: the people who would potentially make it, and that would
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: open all the other doors for me. And it was
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: a script I wrote called The Mouse Who Would Be King,
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: and it's the story of Mickey Mouse and how Walt
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: Disney developed and created Mickey Mouse. That it ends with
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: creation of Mickey Mouse. And I wrote it in a
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: very Roger Rabbit way, where you see what he's thinking
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: and all these different things. And so I told him that,
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: and I was like, it's never gonna get made, but
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: let's put it out there, let's take meetings, and let's
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: get into development, because you know, we have time. We
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: can do this now. And he kind of like what
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: that mean? He was like, all right, let's do it,
• 27:18
  Speaker 5: and we shook hands and we went from there.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: So and then where did you go from there? Did
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: you go to start actually going too like all these
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: different like pitch meetings and stuff.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we beat out the story.
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: You know, I had the story because I grew up
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: in Florida, right and we went to Disney World all
• 27:32
  Speaker 5: the time. And at Disney World they have an exhibit
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: called One Man's Stream where you can go in and
• 27:38
  Speaker 5: it's like a Disney museum. And then there's this movie
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: at the end where it basically explains how Walt had
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: created Oswald the Lucky Rabbit and it was stolen from him,
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: or you know, he didn't really understand the full the
• 27:50
  Speaker 5: paradigms of his contract and Universal owned it and he
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: put all this working through it, and he's like, I
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: should own this because I put all this work in
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: through it. And on the train ride back home to
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: tell his team and his wife, he started coming up
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: with Mickey Mouse. So I knew that that's what I
• 28:05
  Speaker 5: wanted to end the movie with. Like I had my
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: end theme. I had the idea of Walt Disney going
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: on a train and having like this just epiphany of
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: Mickey Mouse, and the way that I wanted to dramatize
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: it was to actually have Mickey Mouse walk on the
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: train car with him. So we beat out the story
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: and we you know, I read a bunch of books
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: and kind of just filled my manager's head with all
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: this knowledge of Disney that he didn't otherwise know. And
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: then we wrote it and I wrote drafts and drafts
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: and drafts and drafts.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: While still working at the studio, and.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: He was like, finally, you know, we nailed it down,
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: and he started sending I sent it to agencies, sends,
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: production companies, executives, producers, all sorts of people, and then
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: the real game began and I started taking meetings.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: So how long was it before you know, you talked
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: to them, you would beat it out and before you
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: got meetings? How long was that whole time seriod there?
• 29:04
  Speaker 6: Oh?
• 29:05
  Speaker 5: Man, I mean I really knew the story, so I
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: think it was kind of an easier development process. And
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: it was just he and I, so there were weren't
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: a lot of.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: Coats in the kitchen.
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: I mean probably a six months, seven months, and then
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: I started taking meetings.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: So when you actually started to take these meetings, what
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: were some of the what was some of the feedback
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: that you were getting.
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: Everyone loved the script, it was it was it was
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: something where they were like, you know, I love the
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: script and we want to know what else you're working on,
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: and if we can find something to work on together.
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: And I started developing, Like I developed a TV show
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: with one guy that didn't go anywhere. I developed a
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: TV show with Image Movers, which was Roberts and Max's company,
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: that didn't.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Go anywhere, and I took that, and I took.
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: That somewhere else, and everything kind of led into other projects.
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: Every every meeting I had, every conversation I had ended
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: up giving me something else to work on, or they
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: had something that I could fit into, or.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And now back to the show.
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: I showed some sort of interest in a project that
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: they brought up in a meeting, and then you know
• 30:15
  Speaker 5: that's really key is you go in there and of
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: course I'm nervous, you know, and I'm moved out here
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: to do this, and I'm going to intermedt with.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: These big guys, right and.
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: They can be very intimidating, And the key is really
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: to sell them on what your brand is and.
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: What your personal story is.
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: And if you can do that, they're going to try
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: and find something that they have that almost feels like
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: a perfect fit for you. And then you just have
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: to capitalize on it. And none of those projects went anywhere,
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: but they led to other conversations and other development things
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: and other specs that led to where I am today.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: So you use that Mickey mouse script and that sort
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: of became like a calling card script to get your throat, Yeah,
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: to get your foot in the door. And they were saying,
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: you know, did they say to you, hey, Mike, we
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: love you know, the mouse would be king what else
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: do you have?
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there was a little bit of that.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: I was like, what else are you thinking about? Like
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: what else are you writing?
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: And then based on that, it was like if I
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: was writing something that was sci fi, they would say, oh,
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: well we have this sci fi thing we or we're
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: looking at this book, what do you think about this book?
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: Or for instance, when I went to Image Movers, it
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: was more so about the fact that I used to
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: box and I was an amateur boxer. And they had
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: a producer who had optioned all of FX tools, Short
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: Stories and FX toolvote million Dollar Baby, right, So they
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: had optioned all of them except for Million Dollar Baby
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: because obviously Warners had that, and they were like, would
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: you be interested in trying to build a TV show
• 31:56
  Speaker 5: based on these short stories, and of course you say yeah, yes,
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: and that A started developing that and when that fell through,
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: I took all of the FX tool references out of
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: what we had been working on, and I wrote a
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: spec pilot just without all those references that I filled
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: it with my own personal experiences from boxing, and then
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: that pilot became my TV calling card, and then we
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: sent that out to everybody.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: And so when you set that out to everybody, did
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: you sort of have like a whole another round of
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: meetings with like the same oh anasment companies or was
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: it different message?
• 32:31
  Speaker 5: It's kind of like a like an album, Like you
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: read an album and then you go on a tour
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: and you do all these concerts.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: Like that's kind of how I look at it.
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: You write a script, you give it to some of
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: your manager or your agent, they send it around to everybody,
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: and then people finally get back to them and they
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: want to meet with you. And then you go on
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: a tour, you know, and then and you're basically going
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: to all these different generals and all these different meetings
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: and and hoping that something turns into something else.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: You know. I never feel like.
• 32:57
  Speaker 5: The specific project that I'm going in with is going
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: to sell. You know, I'm not there to sell that project.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: I always feel like I'm there to sell myself as
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: a writer and and to get on something either they
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: already have or to just open that line of communication
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: where I can pitch them something later on.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: And so when when when you know, you're building relationships, relationships,
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: So now you're and so now they know when you
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: come to the door, like, oh, you know there's Michael K. Snider,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: he's he's guy was so you know, brought the whole
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: Disney project. He's done this, and you know so and
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: you you know, so they're sort of you're building a
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: good reputation for yourself.
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because this whole town relationships and it's really all
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: it is.
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: You know, somebody who I met, you know, five years
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: ago and was a you know, creative exac somewhere is
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: now you know, VP production at a studio, right And
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: I can go to them and be like, you know,
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: just just by just because I've kept in contact with
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: all these people throughout the years.
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: And then they move up and they change and their
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: mandates change, and you never know when you're gonna have
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: something that fits their mandate.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know, you know, taste change, you know,
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: and now everybody I swear, like the number one question
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: and the number one thing I hear from doing this
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: podcast is you know, always have a TV pilot ready
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: because now they all they want something. Everybody wants something episodic.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: Now, yeah, that's interesting. You know, I knew with some producers.
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: Who they don't want a pilot, they want to pitch,
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: and the specific networks who they have to deal with
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: or whoever they've worked with, has you know, their mandate is,
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: you know, we want to hear the pitch and then
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: develop the pilot because there's money. And then some producers
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: are like, we only want to take a spec pilot out,
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: you know, we don't want to pitch, we don't want
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: a buible, We just want to get the spec and
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: then take that out. So it's really, you know, it's
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: everyone's different, every networks different, every company is different.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, now with everybody else getting into
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: the game, like you know, like Amazon, I mean even
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: even from a few years ago, you know, an Amazon,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: there's always rumors that Walmart is going to get into
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: the some content game. And I mean you just see
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: all these these different players now popping up, and all
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: the other players are still there, like your Netflix, you know,
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: and and and in Hulu and all your big your
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: big studios. So it's just, you know, now it's like
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: you have a lot of options as a writer.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: That's great, Yeah you do. It's just you know, getting
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: into the conversation.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: So as you talked about getting into the conversation, uh,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: you know, you had just recently pitched a treatment for
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: a sequel for a very well known movie. And I
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: know you can't talk too much about it, but uh
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: uh you know, can you just tell you know, all
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: the listeners about, you know what, what the streaming was
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: that you pitched.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: So basically what happened is I'll go back and kind
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: of preface it with another story. I was sent an
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: article from you know, by my girlfriend about this SeaWorld
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: orchitt trainer named John Hargrove who worked at sea World
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: for fourteen years and became like this lead kill a
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: whale trainer and quit and he wrote a memoir. So
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: I mean, of course, again, growing up in Orlando, I
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: have pictures of myself as a little kid, like sitting
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: on Shamboux, right, you know, so I'm like, I don't
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: want to see Blackfish.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: I don't want to know anything about it. I know
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: it's probably terrible, but I don't need that guilt, you know.
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: So she said me this article, and I read it,
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: and I was so drawn into that rabbit hole that
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: I just I totally just jumped in. And I bought
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: his book and I read it overnight, and I started like,
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: as I'm reading the book, I'm like highlighting scenes that
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: I see in my head and different things. And he's
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: the author is just so interesting, his personal story so interesting,
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: beyond the fact that he worked at Sea World. And
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: the day after I read it, my girlfriend was in
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: Long Beach and just randomly, it's really funny, met the author,
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: who doesn't even live out here, and she went up
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: to him, was like, you gotta cost my boyfriend.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: He's got a great idea. He knows how to turn
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: your books through a movie. He can do it. We
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: can do it together, you know, give him a call.
• 37:03
  Speaker 5: So before he could call me, I'd already like hyped
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: up a pitch you know why I should write this
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: movie and what my version of his story is, which
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: was essentially to take audiences into the tank with him
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: and grow that emotional connection that he had with the
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: killer Will. And so I sent him the email called
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: me the next day and we talked for like four
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: hours and just became really good friends and and he
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: was pretty much like, all right, where do I sign?
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: So from there, we wrote a thirty page treatment and
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: he took that and we pitched it all over town
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: to all different companies, and the consensus was, this movie
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: is great. You know, this idea is great, but we
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: need you to spect the script. So I spect that
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: feature out and then we sent that back and it
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: just it just at that point, you know, it is
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: a matter of a few months just to go back
• 37:56
  Speaker 5: to what we were just talking about.
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: Those companies had already changed.
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: Their mandate and it was like, well, now we're looking
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: for thrillers or now we're looking for Netflix or Amazon,
• 38:04
  Speaker 5: and we don't think this fits that mandate.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: Blah blah blah. So that's fine.
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: So we sent that around and I had met with
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: an executive at Ellen Pompio's company, Calamity. Jane Allen Pompio
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: is Meredith Gray on Gray's Anatomy, and we had talked
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: about a couple of projects and she is a big
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: anti SeaWorld person. So, you know, they only have a
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: TV deal with ABC, they don't do any films. So
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: I reached out to my manager, you know, on my
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: girlfriend is like, you need to you to send it
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: over to them, and I'm like, well, they only have
• 38:37
  Speaker 5: a TV deal and she's like, just do it. Just
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: do it, because the moral of my life and right
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: now is my girlfriend Rachel's always right to be cob,
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: be honest with you. And every time she told me
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: that I need to do somethings she's and I disagree
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: with her, I end up doing it. Everyone benefits from
• 38:52
  Speaker 5: So I've learned that the hard way. But she's always right.
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: And so we sent it over to them and they
• 38:57
  Speaker 5: called and they were like, we love this. You know,
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: we don't know how to do this, but we love this,
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: and we want to reach out to someone else to
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: try and see if we can partner with them because
• 39:06
  Speaker 5: we don't make movies. And it just so happened that
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: the person that they wanted to reach out to was
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: Lauren schuer Donner, who of course is the amazing producer
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: of all the X Men films and Deadpool and she
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: produced Free Willy, and.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: She's the wife of Richard Donner, who everyone knows is
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: the director of Superman.
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: The Yeomen Bethhilppon, Goonies all that, and they're big anti captivity,
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: anti fur, anti zoo, all that. So we went down
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: the line with them and they were interested, and at
• 39:40
  Speaker 5: the end of the day it just wasn't something that
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: they felt they wanted to go down again because they
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: again they produced Free Willy and they got kind of
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: attacked for that at a time.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: And they were like, we don't really want to do
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: that again.
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: So my manager went in and he met with the
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: head of their company and he was like, well, what
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: else Mike want to do.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: And my manager started talking to him about a couple
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: of projects that I add that everyone considers to be
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: ambulan in tone, as in seven Spielburt's Pression Company, of course,
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: and he was like, well, we've wanted to do a
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: Doonies too for a long time, and we've heard a
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: lot of pitches and we've gotten a lot of treatments.
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: So I'm basically every writer in.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: Hollywood and nobody can get you know, Dick and Stephen
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: and Chris Columbus to agree on their version of the sequel.
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: What do you want to do that? And my manager's like, yeah,
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: of course he wants to do that. I mean he's
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: kidding me, right. So I get a call and my
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: manager and he's like, what do you think about the Goonies?
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, are you serious? Like, of course I
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: want to do there.
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: I mean, of course I want to throw, you know,
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: throw my cards in it and really try to throw
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: in my hand.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: But it was quite a challenge.
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: So down and I watched the original movie a dozen
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: times again and came up with a with an idea
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: for a new Goonies movie. Not exactly a sequel I
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: wouldn't I wouldn't really say, but sort of like how
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: do I force awakens the Goonies?
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: Right? Yeah?
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: And uh, I think again, because I don't know how how.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: I don't want to go to in depth with it,
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: but there's there is one thing I want to say
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: that that that it was I think was awesome that
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: you did and when this was since since will when
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: I Willie's Treasure was found, the town itself was basically
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: had become Hey, nobody, it's not special anymore because there's
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: no more there's no more treasure to.
• 41:42
  Speaker 5: Find, right, Totally, it's it's how do you tell this story,
• 41:48
  Speaker 5: you know, thirty something years after the first movie took place,
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: and it also, you know, I.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: Love the Gooenies and everyone loved the Goonies, but.
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: It's it's a it's a product of it of the
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: year it came out, right, and you really, it would
• 42:00
  Speaker 5: be really hard to make that kind of movie today
• 42:03
  Speaker 5: because there's just constraints with the way that budgets work
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: and just having an all kid casts and all these
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: different things.
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: So it was really, how do I in a way
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: bring the.
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: Magic and tone of the original into today's marketplace and
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: into today's kids, in the world of today's kids, And
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: then how do I bring select members of the cast
• 42:27
  Speaker 5: back and have them involved.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: So I don't know, I don't know if the movie
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: will ever get made.
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: I don't know if they'll ever be a new Goonies movie,
• 42:35
  Speaker 5: because it's hard for everyone to agree on something. But
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: you know, dec have it and he's reading in I'm
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: just waiting to hear back from him.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: Now, So do you ever think Mike that you would
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: ever maybe use this treatment as a sort of like
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: a pitch for other projects. So maybe, like, you know,
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: if you ever they said, hey, Mike, what else have
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: you been working on, You'll say, Hey, I've worked on
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: this Gooney's treatment for for you know, and I pitched
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: it to Richard Donner, And you know, would you ever,
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: at any point ever do something like that?
• 43:04
  Speaker 5: Absolutely every conversation I've had since I've brought that up
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: in the room, you know, because everyone collectively loves the unie.
• 43:12
  Speaker 5: So when you bring that up and if you know,
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: they want to kind of know what the basis of
• 43:18
  Speaker 5: the pitches, and you know, without giving too much away,
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: you give that to them and then they can kind
• 43:24
  Speaker 5: of see how your mind works when adapting other material,
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: you know, source material, which is key right now because
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: that's what everyone's doing.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: And it's actually funny because.
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: Of the project that I'm most excited about and currently
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: developing that I can't really say the name of what
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: it is and who the players are, but it's two
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: veteran producers who made, you know, a lot of movies,
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: and it's an adaptation of a classic story by a
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: well respected author.
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: And I partially believe that.
• 44:00
  Speaker 5: You know, it was sort of a combination of Beneath
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: the Surface, which is a cer World movie, that script
• 44:06
  Speaker 5: getting me in the door with them, and then me saying,
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: you know, oh, by the way, right now, I'm also
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: writing a treatment and pitching a Gooney sequel, and.
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: Here's kind of how I'm doing it and how I'm
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: adapting it.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: So so so as you know, you're going to these
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: pitch meetings and as you are sort of working on things,
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: you know, one of the things that you and I
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: always talk about is development and you know, sort of
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: ye and sort of managing expectations. So what are some
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: of the things that you know, you can sort of
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: discuss about, you know, development, Like let's just say, for instance,
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: let's just give a scenario example. Let's just say that
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: somebody does buy a script. It's a completely original spec script.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: They were to buy it. You know what, what are
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: some of the things that happened at development.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: It's interesting.
• 44:49
  Speaker 5: I think a lot of people, myself included, kind of
• 44:53
  Speaker 5: always felt or or or still feel that once you
• 44:57
  Speaker 5: get to the point in your career where you're actual,
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: really meeting with the real producers, you know, not just
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: the assistance or anything like that, but the actual people who.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: Can sign a check that everything just changes.
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: But the reality is, you know, the ceiling just gets higher, right,
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: so you climb up to the top of Everest, only
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: to realize that there's another like, you know, six hundred
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: miles that you can't see because it's so freaking tall,
• 45:25
  Speaker 5: and that that's how it feels.
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: So I think, you know, when someone comes along and
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: they buy a spec, they're going to do one of
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: two things.
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: If it's a big spec, like if we're talking you know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 5: Blockbuster Temple, they're going to hire a studio writer to
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: do a polish.
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: And that's partially too.
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: If it's a if it's a big studio and they're
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: they've got shareholders that they have to convince, it's that
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: it's like, well, we'll have the Coen Brothers come in
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: and they'll do a polish on all the dialogue and
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: everyone will be happy to give us money to make
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: the movie. If it's a smaller contained kind of genre
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: film like a ten qulover Field or something like that,
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: then it's a whole different conversation. Then then you could
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: be the sole writer, unless they hire a writer director
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: who wants to come in and.
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: Do a polish as well.
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: The other end of the coin is when in the
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: situation I'm in now is i'd have something pitched to me,
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: you know, So I go in and I'd pitch five movies,
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: and they want to make one of the movies I pitch,
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: and then they also but you know, but first we
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: want to do one of the ones that we're looking
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: at with you.
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: So they pitch me the movie. Then it's you know,
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: I got to look at the source material, which is
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: a book. I got to figure out how am.
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: I going to add my voice or you know, what's
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: my style with this source material? And then it just
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: begins this really lengthy process of development that nobody really understands,
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: and I'm just still learning it as I go, because one,
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: every executive and producer is different, and two, it's just
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: not something that anybody ever talks about in film school
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: or anywhere else. So in this circumstance, it's it's very
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: much like, Okay, read the book and then give us
• 47:02
  Speaker 5: an outline, right, that was the first thing. It's like,
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: give us an online of how you would adapt it.
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: So then I sit down and I write, you know,
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: like a ten to twelve page outline, and it's basically
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: in pros that's just how I write my outlines. And
• 47:17
  Speaker 5: I send it over to them and they're like, okay, great, well,
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: come into the office.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna talk about it. So go in the office.
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: They tell me what they love, they tell me what
• 47:24
  Speaker 5: they don't really like, and then they tell me, you know,
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: kind of how to.
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: Help structure it.
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: Because a lot of the studios, and this is fairly true.
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: Then you know, they categorize writers in two different categories, right,
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: One is a writer who can write character and the
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: other is a writer who can write structure. And the
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: key I think is to really understand character, because they
• 47:48
  Speaker 5: can give you the structure if you can come up
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: with the characters, and you can come up with what
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: the real story is behind everything and why you need
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: to tell this story and why these characters are going
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: through what they're going through and not just you know,
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: bite page twelve, roughout the incieting incident and blah blah
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: blah blah blah.
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: Save the cat. If you can come up with the characters,
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: they are paid to kind of look at it like
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: math and look at it like plotting.
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: So they're gonna look at what you give them, and
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: they're gonna say, okay, so do you think this section
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: of your outline is like the first five pages? And
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: you say, yes, that's first five pages and then blah
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: blah blah, And it helps you. It helps them to
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: plot it in their mind from a producing standpoint, whereas
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: use the writers.
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: Should be thinking about the characters.
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: And when I look at a lot of movies and
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: I see you know that, and I'm just unhappy with
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: the screenplays, it's because they're coming at it from a
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: complete structure and you know, POV and not from character.
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: And I can see it when I watch the movies,
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: and I can also see complacency where it's like, you
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: could have made that better, but you didn't because of
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: one or two things. One you're getting a paycheck and
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: it doesn't matter because you know they're gonna market a
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: shit out of the movie and million, million million.
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: People are gonna see. Two because you're nervous. You're in
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: the room with these guys.
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: They have a bad idea, and you're afraid to tell
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: them no, or you're afraid to say yes, smile and nod,
• 49:15
  Speaker 5: go home and find out how to best tweak their
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: ideas that are worse than the story.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: And that, to me is what development is.
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: It's this long process six months to a year, where
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: you're beating out the story with producers in the hopes
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: that at the end of this process they're either going
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: to hire you to write the script or they're gonna
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: make a deal with you where you spec the script
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: and then once the project gets funded, then you get paid.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, there was an article, I think
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: it was a Wall Street journal about how, you know,
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: why do so many of these these big budget movies
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: feel the same. And that was the answer, was they
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: think that there's too much, you know, save the cat
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: structure in there, because it's all structure.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be right back after a word from our
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: sponsor and now back to the show.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: You know, And that's great. I mean, you need structure,
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: but you should be the story guy. The writers should
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: be the story guy. The writer should be the person who.
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: Makes the audience feel for the themes and the characters
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: in the film or the TV series. The executives, the
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: suit the money people. They should be the structure guys
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: and girls. They should be the people who are looking
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: at it from a plotting POV so that when they
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: call a director who comes in, they can beat out
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: the acts with the director and he totally understands what
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: they're saying. It's like math, let them do the math,
• 50:45
  Speaker 5: but you have to provide them with the numbers.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: So and you know, I was talking to something about
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: this too, was you know, if you look at movies
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: in from like the seventies and the eighties, you know,
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: there's there's all these you know, really unique movies, and
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: you sort of as you sort of get it to
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: the sort of end of the nineties to now, you
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: can see the big difference. And the big difference is
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: it's almost like with now they want to sort of
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: have creativity controlled where they know sort of what they're
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: going they want to have it. So it's almost like
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: the project is handheld from all these steps and they're
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: sort of like, Okay, you know now on page seventeen,
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: this has to happen. At page twenty five, this has
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: to happen.
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Stuff like that, right, right, Totally. It's interesting.
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: I mean, I've never thought about writing like that ever
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: in my life. I've never I've read all these books
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: and I've taken all these classes and I've and I
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: understand the logic, but I've.
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: Never truly approached writing that way.
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: I've always approached it as what is the story, Why
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: is the story relevant? And how do I fit these
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: characters and these things in just today's marketplace.
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: That's the only math I ever do.
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: I don't worry about what happens by page thirty, with
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: page twenty five or page sixty, not at leaf until
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: after I've written out an outline or a treatment or
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: even a first draft. Then I start to think, Okay,
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: how can I whittle this down? You know, how can
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: I get the action started earlier? But I I the
• 52:05
  Speaker 5: key is really to just do it, get it finished,
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: and then you can always go back and correct it.
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: It's like Tarantino and the Coen Brothers. They don't write,
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: you know, buy that either, you know. I know there's
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: a lot of other like Kevin Smith, Robert Riguez, I
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: know those don't. Those guys don't write by the whole
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: like you know, hey, we have to have this happen
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: by this page and stuff like that. And I think,
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: you know, yeah, and I think what it happened is
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: I think, as you sort of try to crack this
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: nut so to speak. I think that's where you see
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: guys like Sidfield and Blake Center save the Cat, they
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: sort of wonder, you know, Okay, how did they write this?
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: There's somebody whoever script it is, how do they write
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: this script? And what are what do all good what
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: are all the good things that they have in common?
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: So these scripts that are you know, the top one percentile,
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: what are they actually doing? Thisus what they're not doing?
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: And I think that's then that's where all these systems
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: come from, Like you know, and that's where all those
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: books come from.
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's smart to understand, and it's hard to read
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: the books, and it's smart to kind of get what
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: you know, the end goal is and and understand the structure.
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: But I just I don't think anything should ever be
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: approached with structure in mind. First, I'm not saying you
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: should have a first act that goes, you know, eighty pages,
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: but I am saying that, you know, if you look
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: at some of your favorite movies, like you just said,
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: they're not really.
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: Going off of any structure. They're going off of what's
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: the best way to tell the story.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think also that I think that's why
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: independent film now is sort of having you know, it's
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: sort of why you know, crowdfunding and everything else. I
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: think this act becomes more popular, that's gonna be where
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: you know, more people are going to say, you know,
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: I could just crowd fill my movie for maybe twenty
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: thirty forty thousand dollars and at least shoot it the
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: way I want to, rather than rewrite it and try
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: to actually, you know, sell to an agency or whatever.
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, And I mean you can, you can definitely
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: do that, and there's definitely ways to monetize that and
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: build the career off of that.
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: I think my approach is, how can I get into
• 54:00
  Speaker 5: the system and not change the system, but just bring
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: that storytelling approach into the system with with some of
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: the bigger titles and and and and bigger films, and
• 54:13
  Speaker 5: and to not be complacent and and just say yes
• 54:16
  Speaker 5: to everything, but to find the best way to tell
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: the stories. Because if you find the best way to
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: tell a story and you can pitch it to an
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: executive or producer and they know that what you're saying
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: makes sense and is right, they're not going to tell
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: you no, they don't want to make a bad movie.
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: Like the goal isn't to make a bad movie. You
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: just have to be ten steps ahead and be willing
• 54:36
  Speaker 5: to tell them your idea.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh, that is you know, key is is
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: sort of how to communicate, right, So how do you
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: communicate something without actually you know, nobody wants to say no,
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: but you also can't say yeah, So you have to
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: communicate in a different way.
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: And I remember, I mean it's risk management.
• 54:56
  Speaker 5: You know. You have to give them a way that
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: they can tell their boss, or tell their finance years,
• 55:00
  Speaker 5: or tell the studio that they have to deal with.
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: You have to give it to them so that they
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: can they can express the idea or the story or
• 55:07
  Speaker 5: the structure or whatever you're presenting them with and the
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: best way to their bosses.
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, yeah.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: Because you because that way you know obviously it's sort
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: of you know how nobody wants to be the person
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: that says no. Because I was reading a book about
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: this a few years ago and they said, you know,
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: if you you don't want to tell you know, the
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: next Vince Gilligan no, and then you know, if you
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: if you work for that uh that that studio and
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden needs a hit and then
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: he comes back and says, now, aren't you that person
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: that said.
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: No to me? Now? Aren't you that guy toly? Right?
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: So, you know, and Mike, I just wanted to ask one. Uh,
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: I have a few more final questions. I know we're
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: starting around on out of time, as I see the count.
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: I didn't even I realized this, this conversation flew by.
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: I didn't even realize how long we were talking. And so,
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: you know, for writing competitions, what do you think are
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: some of the top writing competitions out there right now
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: for writers?
• 55:59
  Speaker 6: Uh?
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: Oh man, I mean, I think it all depends on
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: what your goal is.
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: If your goal is to get some representation, then I think,
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: you know, Nichols is always great because it's such.
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: A well respected contest.
• 56:13
  Speaker 5: I think that the tracking boards contests are really great.
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: I know a lot of people get reps based off
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: of that. If you're trying to make some money, you know,
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: and put a little bit of money in your pocket,
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: then I think there's a lot of genre based writing
• 56:25
  Speaker 5: competitions that have money prizes, and maybe their contacts aren't
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: as good as some of the other ones, but you're
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: going to get some money out of it. So I
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: think it's really how you how you want to approach it.
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: Do you want to build a career and get representation
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: or do you want to get like forty g you know,
• 56:39
  Speaker 5: in the in the bank.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: And you know, because I know you went through the
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: you know, Script Shadows website and you were to you know,
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: I was just wondering, you know, because I know again
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: as we were talking about opportunities, you know, all the
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: different opportunities out there, and you know, that's that's why
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: I asked that question, just to see because every time
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: I turn around, this's a new writing competition opening up.
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I don't know a lot of them, you know.
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: I mean I don't I'm not really familiar with because
• 57:04
  Speaker 5: I don't enter a lot of them. I mean, I
• 57:06
  Speaker 5: think Blacklist is great if you have the money to
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: spend on evaluations. So I think I think Blacklist is
• 57:13
  Speaker 5: still a very good asset. Like I said, I love
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: the guys at the tracking board. I think what they're
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: doing is is great. And they have a lot of
• 57:19
  Speaker 5: great managers and agents on their review boards that do
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: judge these scripts, and they do sign writers and give
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: them other opportunities. And I know that from a genre
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: pov like, if you're doing a horror script or a
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: sci fi script, is the great genre contest?
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: I don't that are offering.
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: Cash prizes or or you know, the opportunity to pitch
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: a producer or you know, producers are partnering with these contests.
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: I just I'm not well versed in in their names
• 57:47
  Speaker 5: and what they are exactly, but I agree that they're
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: popping up every day.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, particularly the Bloodlist that came out of nowhere. And
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: when I heard about what that is, I was like, wow,
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: that's a fantastic idea.
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good one for sure.
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: And by the way, for those listing the blood List
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: is uh, actually I realized I said it, like there's
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: probably actually explain what we is. So the bud List
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: is the is the is the ranking of the top
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: horror unproduced horror scripts that are out there. And this
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: was put together by I think, is it Kelly Marshack
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: is her name or Kelly marsh I think, so, yeah, yeah,
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: it's uh, it's she actually put this together and it's
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: it's sort of like the Blacklist, but for horror scripts,
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: and uh, you.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: Know, guse horror is so underappreciated man. And and I
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: was just having this conversation.
• 58:31
  Speaker 5: That I did, like some of the best directors come
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: from horror, like even someone like Spielberg, Like if you
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: watch his action sequences, and like Jurassic Park or some
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: of the even like Close Encounters and et. They're all
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: tension and horrorait Like it's all about building the anticipation
• 58:47
  Speaker 5: for the scare or the reveal. And that's all classic
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: horror filmmaking. And I think that the genre is totally underappreciated, uh,
• 58:55
  Speaker 5: especially when you look at so many great.
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: Directors who come from it.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so true. I mean you'll get all the
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: people who started off for horror and uh and you
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: know it was like particularly like guys like Sam Raimi, Uh,
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: they started out totally.
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: I mean, look at his career, like it's it's it's amazing.
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: He has the career that anyone could dream for. Yeah
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: he does. And uh you know, and he's a great guy.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah and and and he's he's been, you know, making
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: all these great projects and uh, now look like he's
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: got the Evil Dead TV series.
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: And uh, exactly, and it's great, you know, and he's
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: doing great things with it.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: He's just just launched sky Dance Television.
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: You've got a whole new TV you know, profession company,
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: and he's really taking advantage of the wonderful opportunity that
• 59:40
  Speaker 5: is today's current TV market.
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and uh, you know that's when now you know,
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: you're were talking about episodic stuff, and that's something else too,
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: is a game because everyone I swear Mike, it's always
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: about you know, hey, feature films are great, but you know,
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: do you have anything episodic? Do you have anything that
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: like a TV pilot that can you know, go on
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: for eighteen years like, uh, you know, but.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be right back after a word from our
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: sponsor and now back to the show.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know that's that's always something on too,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: in the back burner that I've always been making sure
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: I have at least a couple of you know, TV
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: pilots and uh exactly you know, anything you know, just
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: just making up, you know, just just in case they
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: actually say, you know, hey, you know, if what else
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: do you have? And you know, you're you're ready to
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: be prepared. And I also think like as we you know,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: we talk about expectations and development and all and networking
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: and all the stuff that we've talked about. I think
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: being prepared, yeah, you know, I think you'll agree with this.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think you're ever really one hundred percent prepared.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: You can just do what you can do, and if
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: and and sooner or later, if you keep trying, you're
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: going to be in the right place at the right time.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: You gotta love the process, you know, you gotta love
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: the process.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 5: You gotta be willing to get a day job if
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: you need some money. You gotta be willing to sleep
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 5: on a couch if you don't have any place. You
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: just got to love the process of hitting the pavement,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: finding representation, and then taking that and exploiting that to
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 5: the ends of the earth to meet all these produces
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: and executives, and then hoping that you get into development.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: And then you have to learn to love the process
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 5: of development, which is hard because there's not a lot
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: of money in it. And you know, if there is
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 5: any money at all, it's it's not a ton up front.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 5: So you have to really love the process and love
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: how it feels to crack a story and to negotiate
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: for plot points with executives and defend your case you
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: have to learn to love that, and if you can
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: learn to fall in love with that, then the rest
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: of it is is is cake.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Very well, said Mike. Mike. H So we're just about
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: out of time, and I agree, Mike, you have to
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: love that process and you're just in closing way. I
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: just want to ask, you, know, work, if you'll find
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: you out online.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: I'm always you know, I'm on Facebook, Michael K. Snyder,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: I'm on Twitter at mk Snyder nineteen ninety.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: I'm always looking for people to reach out and connect
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 5: and if i can help, I'm more than happy to.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: I'm always looking to collaborate on different things and help
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: put the piece to the puzzle together.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and everyone. Mike is a fantastic guy. I've known
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: Mike for years now, and as I'm going through my
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: just to my mental role deecks Mike, I think I
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: might might have known you longer than anybody else. Oh no, no,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: though there's two of the people I've had on a
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: podcast where I've known longer than you. So you're like,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: you're like number, You're like the third or fourth person
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: in live people I've known longer. I love it, but
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: because I just remembered there's a friend I had on
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: here for middle school episode one Face with Chris Pireminico
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: and Chris Actually Chris actually was a producer on Game
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Over and he also actually now teaches.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: Film and TV production and amazing.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: That was That was a fun interview. And I'll give
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: you this a little snidbit. It was just funny because
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: he He's like, I'm I'm teaching now. He's like, so,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: so He's like, don't curse, don't tell any weird stories before,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, Jesus christ Man, That's all I
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: do is curse. And yeah, if you take that away
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: from me, I'm not Dave Bullets anymore. All I do
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: is Chris tell me at stories.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: That's awesome. That's your voice. Uh love it.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very very true. Mike, and Mike again, I want
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: to say thank you so much. You and I have
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: been friends for years. You know, you're somebody whose opinion
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: I really trust and I really, I really just know
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: that you were going to hit a huge, colossal grand
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: slam soon enough.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: Thanks man.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: I really appreciate that, and the feeling is mutual, my friend,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 5: you know I think that, Yeah, your opinion is one
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: of the opinions I value more than many others. You know,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: I send you work before other people see it because
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: you're that guy.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: Man, you have you have great taste.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, Mike. I appreciate that. And uh, everybody, everybody,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: make sure you go check out Mike. Seriously. This guy
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: is always on the ball. He's always doing something really
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: really cool. So please go check out Mike and Mike.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: Anything I'm gonna come back on, please let me know.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: I'd love to have you on and I wish you
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: the best of luck man everything.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: Thanks, Man, I will I'll take you up on that.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: It sounds good, buddy. I take care, have a great Saturday.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 4: You too, my friend.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at Indie film Muscle
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: dot com Forward slash eight thirty five, and if you
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: have it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: Subscribe and leave a good review.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: For the show.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: It really helps us out a lot.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: Guys.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you again so much for listening to guys. As always,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive. Stay safe
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Indie film Hustle dot com. That's I N D I
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: E F I L M h U S T l
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: E dot com.