Latest / Authentic Living / Building Resilient Workplaces: Trauma-Informed Strategies and Neuro Inclusion with Treena Reilkoff

Transcript

Building Resilient Workplaces: Trauma-Informed Strategies and Neuro Inclusion with Treena Reilkoff · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
• 0:08
  about things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:40
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:40
  It's, Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:42
  Thanks for tuning in again.
• 0:43
  Week with authentically moving from Roxanne.
• 0:45
  Today, I have a friend that's been on the podcast before, but we've never had a 1 to 1
• 0:50
  and I finally nailed her down or she's not on a plane or a train.
• 0:54
  She finally was able to come into this.
• 0:56
  It's a Trina Rellkov.
• 0:58
  Trina's a specialist that works with psychological safety.
• 1:02
  And I'll have she gonna tell you a little bit more about her and kind of the work that she
• 1:06
  does.
• 1:06
  And today, we're gonna talk a lot about she's just, coming back from a, high level,
• 1:13
  conference in Australia on psychological safety.
• 1:15
  But we're also gonna talk a little bit about, the element of neurodiversity and what's just
• 1:22
  come about with the hoot today.
• 1:23
  We're gonna try to cover as much as we can.
• 1:25
  And if not, we're gonna have Trina back with maybe some other, people that are specialists
• 1:30
  in the area.
• 1:31
  So Trina, thanks so much for coming in today.
• 1:33
  Oh, it's great to be a pleasure and a back and functioning now after the jet lag.
• 1:38
  Oh my goodness.
• 1:39
  Was it?
• 1:40
  Like, how long did it take you?
• 1:42
  It's a it's a 14 hour difference, time difference.
• 1:45
  So we're 14 hours behind.
• 1:48
  So when I left, I left on a Wednesday, landed on a Friday, when you return home, you'll leave
• 1:53
  on a Sunday and you land on a Sunday.
• 1:56
  Wow.
• 1:57
  Wow.
• 1:58
  I've not made the trip yet.
• 1:59
  My niece is in, Melbourne.
• 2:02
  And I'm I'm making a trip.
• 2:03
  I'm just not sure when, but I'd love to be able to go and and experience it at some point.
• 2:09
  So, Trina, Let's talk a little bit about kind of so tell everyone a little bit about kind of
• 2:15
  the work that you do, and then we'll kind of talk.
• 2:17
  We'll jump right into, some of the things that, we're seeing here in Canada, but not just in
• 2:23
  Canada, obviously, globally because you're just coming back from the global con conference and
• 2:27
  psychological safety.
• 2:29
  Right.
• 2:30
  Yeah.
• 2:30
  So kind of the the the title is I work with conflict, but conflict involves everything and
• 2:37
  I specialize in providing workshops in trauma informed resiliency and psychological health
• 2:44
  and safety.
• 2:46
  And risk mitigation, so risk assessments.
• 2:48
  So kinda just to kinda get a baseline understanding of where Mylands, my framework
• 2:54
  comes from, is that we, you know, when we look at first the topic of resiliency, right,
• 3:01
  resiliency is in my lens and my experience in my training, it's risk mitigation, whether it's
• 3:08
  personal, professional, operational, or organizational, it is risk mitigation.
• 3:13
  So it's not just about bouncing back.
• 3:16
  It's you've bounced back.
• 3:17
  You've bounced forward.
• 3:19
  You flourished.
• 3:20
  And now you have a wealth of information and experience to mitigate the risk of how you will
• 3:28
  react to that next critical incident, conflict, adversity, or trauma.
• 3:33
  Mhmm.
• 3:33
  So when
• 3:33
  we think of resiliency, it's not just about eat while sleep well and are you okay after an
• 3:38
  incident.
• 3:39
  It's creating your own resilient toolkit to risk mitigate what life presents you because
• 3:44
  sometimes we have no control.
• 3:47
  Absolutely.
• 3:47
  And there's so many variables involved in that.
• 3:49
  Right, Trina?
• 3:50
  Like, we're, we have to look at, you know, some So you look at 2 people, and I I would say
• 3:56
  that, you know, oftentimes when I was in my early career and I was doing trauma responses,
• 4:01
  you know, and I, you know, I remember you know, 1 particular event, I was a murder suicide, and
• 4:08
  I was a first responder.
• 4:10
  And you see 1 person kinda off in the corner, not seeing any other person's giggling, and the
• 4:16
  other person's just kinda taking charge.
• 4:18
  Right?
• 4:19
  So you see all these variations.
• 4:21
  So this this whole concept that you're talking about is because, you know, the average person
• 4:25
  will say, well, how Comroxanne did not or Trina didn't act in this way, they must not care or
• 4:31
  they, you know, those types of things.
• 4:33
  So resilience really is a very, very individual.
• 4:36
  Thing.
• 4:37
  Yeah.
• 4:37
  And it's how you know, the trauma response and then how you recover is your resilient risk
• 4:43
  mitigation tools strategies that you continually build on either through life
• 4:47
  experiences or through training development workshop learning books.
• 4:54
  So so I do resiliency in that sense, and I incorporate it into the workplace assessments
• 4:59
  in the workshops I give.
• 5:00
  And then it was just in Australia for the first ever, launch through flourish, which was the
• 5:06
  world's psychological health and safety conference.
• 5:10
  So, again, when we're talking about definitions and what does that look like feel like so
• 5:16
  people understand We think of psychological safety, and we think of that from Amy Edmonson,
• 5:22
  who's the guru.
• 5:23
  And that's kinda creating that well-being environment in the workplace where you're safe
• 5:28
  to bring up a complaint, to bring up ideas without feeling embarrassed or gonna be
• 5:34
  reprimanded or ignored or chastised.
• 5:37
  That's psychological safety.
• 5:39
  You can have psychological safety and create that through wellness in workplaces and as
• 5:44
  leaders, as employees, However, psychological safety does not mitigate, risk mitigate the
• 5:51
  hazards and risks.
• 5:52
  That's what psychological health and safety is.
• 5:55
  So under psychological health and safety, in Canada, we have it under occupational health
• 6:01
  and safety, and psychosocial risks which is what we can create to have psychological safety
• 6:10
  or what needs to be mitigated.
• 6:13
  What's new in Australia where Canada used to be in the lead in psychological health and safety
• 6:18
  and our Canadian national standards is now Australia is in the lead because they've
• 6:24
  actually ingrained it into all their legislation.
• 6:28
  In occupational health and safety.
• 6:30
  So here it's in our legislation, but the lack of accountability and how is it enforced and
• 6:37
  how is it checked on that compliance is occurring hasn't occurred yet.
• 6:42
  In Australia now, they have auditors going around to see if your compliance of
• 6:47
  psychological health and safety is up to standards?
• 6:51
  Are your job hazard analysis up to date.
• 6:55
  And if they're not, you can, you know, be charged, and there is potential for serious
• 7:01
  fines or jail time.
• 7:03
  So when did so okay.
• 7:05
  When did their legislation go in compared to ours, Trina, and why are we remiss with you
• 7:12
  know, if we were in the lead, we lagged somewhere.
• 7:17
  I I think just recently, I believe it was 2023 or the beginning of 2024 is when Australia has
• 7:24
  launched their full legislative in all their policies, procedures, but Canada is more non
• 7:32
  litigious in how can we create psychological health and safety.
• 7:37
  So we're coming from the lens of we recognize it in our occupational health and safety that
• 7:43
  you can have risks and hazards, and they have to be mitigated, but we're providing framework
• 7:49
  because there is no square box where it fits in.
• 7:52
  Every business organization employer is different in how they're gonna create that
• 7:58
  culture that is psychologically health and safe.
• 8:02
  So kinda a concrete example I like to use is within Canada, ice is a risk.
• 8:09
  Is or sorry, ice is the hazard.
• 8:11
  The risk is slip and fall, So if you have ice in your front entrance to your business or
• 8:18
  organization, you by law have to mitigate that risk so nobody slips and falls.
• 8:23
  Injury can be a bruise or it could be potential death depending on how somebody fell.
• 8:30
  So then what are the ramifications if somebody seriously injures themselves if that risk was
• 8:36
  not mitigated?
• 8:38
  So now in Canada, workload is considered a hazard.
• 8:43
  Workload like ice is the hazard.
• 8:46
  Workload needs to be mitigated.
• 8:49
  How do you mitigate that hazard?
• 8:51
  How do you reduce that risk?
• 8:53
  What has the employer put in place to mitigate the risk of potential injury And what that
• 9:01
  potential injury could look like is increased conflict, bullying, harassment, potential, you
• 9:08
  know, stress leave, burnout.
• 9:11
  And if the psychological injury or harm is severe enough, persistent and occurs over a
• 9:16
  long time, it can result in death, which is suicide.
• 9:22
  So how do employers mitigate a hazard of workload, right, and that's where looking at,
• 9:28
  are you staffed appropriately, are your policies processes up to date, if there's leave
• 9:34
  or shortage.
• 9:35
  Have you looked at the systems?
• 9:37
  Have they been updated?
• 9:39
  You can look at You know, what trading have you provided in the work environment to help
• 9:46
  mitigate high stress loads?
• 9:48
  Right?
• 9:48
  In the legal profession right now, there's that book that was just released of the lawyers
• 9:53
  sharing their mental health diagnoses and how they've coped but the high pressures in the
• 10:00
  legal industry.
• 10:02
  Right?
• 10:02
  Because time, it's all time and money.
• 10:04
  It's not 8 to 5.
• 10:06
  And how they're billing hours.
• 10:07
  So how do you change the culture to mitigate the risk and hazards related to workload?
• 10:16
  And that is individually based at profession, organization,
• 10:19
  employee.
• 10:20
  By sector, by by the stresses associated with sector and size.
• 10:24
  Yeah.
• 10:24
  Internal pressures of pressures, all those things.
• 10:27
  So let's let's go back.
• 10:30
  I don't know.
• 10:30
  I'm gonna go back to to Yeah.
• 10:33
  Is it that Canada will eventually get to the point where we always keep this framework from
• 10:37
  what I'm sure you were, you know, where we want to say it's individual and we will allow we,
• 10:43
  you know, the Canadian people are very nice.
• 10:47
  Not that the Australians aren't, but they're nice and we assume that once we apply the leg
• 10:52
  you know, the legislation is there that there would be compliance and people would, you know,
• 10:56
  kind of get in there and they'd figure out what needs to get done.
• 11:00
  We assume that they're gonna do it.
• 11:01
  So how well are we doing here in Canada?
• 11:05
  Well, it's not legislated.
• 11:07
  Yeah.
• 11:07
  It's like in our labor code to mitigate the risk, but it's not enforced or the
• 11:12
  accountability.
• 11:13
  So, again, that's a political question.
• 11:16
  That's the legislative across provinces because each province has their own standards and
• 11:22
  policies for occupational health and safety.
• 11:24
  And then you have the federal government and the Crown Corporations that have the federal
• 11:29
  definition of what they comply with in occupational health and safety.
• 11:33
  So, like, in the states as well, each state is different.
• 11:36
  Right.
• 11:36
  So it's all based on the individual province.
• 11:40
  Or the federal government of revamping.
• 11:43
  Okay.
• 11:44
  So I
• 11:44
  think right now, we're just it's still new.
• 11:46
  Like, in Canada, with the feds, it was Bill C65.
• 11:50
  In Ontario.
• 11:51
  I believe it's bill 168.
• 11:54
  Mhmm.
• 11:54
  So it's looking right now just even educating.
• 11:57
  Educating organizations and businesses of are you up to date?
• 12:02
  Are you potentially at risk for agreements, a lawsuit, discrimination, human rights
• 12:07
  complaint, and what are those root causes.
• 12:11
  So in my business of doing workplace Whether it's a culture assessment or risk assessment,
• 12:16
  psychological health, and safety assessment, it comes back to We're all human and mitigating
• 12:23
  that risk and you don't know what those risks are until you identify the root causes.
• 12:29
  And the solutions come from the people that work in that environment.
• 12:33
  Absolutely.
• 12:34
  So it's it's kinda digging.
• 12:36
  Like you said, it's the, you know, it's the you're not chopping off the top of the dandy
• 12:40
  line.
• 12:40
  You're really kinda getting down into the root, and you're kinda digging it up so it doesn't go
• 12:44
  back again.
• 12:45
  You're really wanting to understand what's happened.
• 12:47
  Now let's let's talk a little bit about, are certain sectors doing better than others?
• 12:54
  Do we know that you know,
• 12:59
  I I'm not gonna call out sectors because then it'll identify potentially, you know, where
• 13:04
  I've where I've worked or done some business, but I can say I've done, replaced assessments
• 13:09
  in some provincial organizations, how care organizations, construction, coffee franchises,
• 13:17
  and and the commonality is still there's a culture of fear to speak up for retribution.
• 13:24
  And this is kinda where, you know, being a conflict management specialist as well in
• 13:29
  mediation, is looking at, we have to change the conversation to become conflict curious, right,
• 13:36
  and not afraid of conflict.
• 13:39
  Because, I have a cousin who's in the nuclear engineering and a couple friends that are
• 13:44
  pilots, and we were talking about conflict.
• 13:48
  Right?
• 13:48
  And in those fields, if you go have a team meeting and nobody brings up an issue, or talks
• 13:55
  about a conflict or a potential issue or risk, then there's red flags going everywhere because
• 14:02
  you want to bring all the conflict, all the risks, all the potential hazards on the table
• 14:08
  to mitigate them.
• 14:10
  But when you look at their other organization's businesses professions, there's that culture of
• 14:16
  fear to speak up.
• 14:18
  So that's interesting.
• 14:19
  I had never thought about that.
• 14:20
  Right?
• 14:21
  So so they are looking for a certain not not maybe a certain particular number, but they are
• 14:27
  knowing that more than likely, they're gonna get a couple of conflicts per meeting, which
• 14:32
  shows them that they act me are addressing concerns, and people are feeling safe enough to
• 14:37
  say what's not going on or this needs to be shifted.
• 14:40
  Or and, again, we're talking about know, if I am at 30, 000 feet and I and I'm not addressing
• 14:47
  a conflict if I'm the, you know, the left seat, the pilot, And then my co pilot or my engineer
• 14:52
  is not going along.
• 14:53
  That's a massive disaster.
• 14:55
  And, again, with a nuclear engineer in a nuclear plant, Same thing.
• 15:00
  So it's more on the critical ends.
• 15:02
  So they what you're saying is that people in critical environments, it's kind of because
• 15:09
  it's normative, potentially, because lives would go immediately.
• 15:13
  So it's kinda like, you know, literally in neon lights, whereas other sectors could be, maybe,
• 15:22
  you know, the customer service line was a little bit longer than need be.
• 15:26
  That's like, you know, when you go into a department store or something like that, it's
• 15:30
  not translating the same way, but the harm could be the say.
• 15:34
  Yeah.
• 15:35
  And and you don't know people's experiences, and it's it's looking at, again, creating that
• 15:41
  language, that conversation that culture of we all contribute whether you're the employer, the
• 15:48
  management, the leader, C suite, the employee, were all part of the culture.
• 15:53
  And Z Suite can, you know, set the stage.
• 15:57
  They can update their mission, the values, send out the notices, but if nobody knows what that
• 16:03
  looks like feels like and it can identify it by saying, oh, yeah.
• 16:07
  So and so did this behavior in this action, which demonstrated psychological safe or
• 16:13
  psychological health and safe workplace and mitigated that risk, nobody knows what to do.
• 16:19
  And that's what I'm discovering more and more.
• 16:20
  It's we assume everybody's got the understanding of what it looks like feels like.
• 16:27
  So it's kinda like, I when I used to be a behavioral consultant, I like to break it down
• 16:32
  into is it a barrier, challenge, or obstacle?
• 16:37
  So a barrier is looking at you're gonna climb mount everest.
• 16:40
  You need to train, you need a coach, you need equipment, you need to practice to be
• 16:44
  successful.
• 16:45
  So you have a skill deficit and a performance deficit.
• 16:49
  Okay.
• 16:50
  If you have obstacles are in the way, obstacle, like running the obstacle course, you can jump
• 16:55
  over it, go under it, or go around it, left to right.
• 16:58
  So that means you have the skills.
• 17:00
  You just don't have the brainstorming of what are the performance deficits to get to the best
• 17:06
  outcome, but you can brainstorm and look what are my options and break that down.
• 17:12
  Peel back the onions and, you know, the layers of the onion, what are my best opportunities,
• 17:17
  options?
• 17:18
  Do I have all the skills needed?
• 17:20
  And then when we look at challenge, we're looking at policy process and written
• 17:26
  documentation, right, because interpretation can create conflict, can create hazards, and
• 17:32
  risks, and non compliance.
• 17:38
  So that's that's interesting.
• 17:39
  I've never heard heard it heard it broken down like that.
• 17:41
  And I'm sure everybody's probably like writing everything down there, Trina, just so that they
• 17:46
  can go back to it.
• 17:47
  So I'm gonna ask you a question, and you don't you don't have to tell me sector or anything.
• 17:55
  Why are generally why is your full read off the hook for people to come up, how do you work
• 18:00
  with them?
• 18:03
  It's cost.
• 18:04
  Cost of conflict.
• 18:05
  Right?
• 18:05
  If you're reactive versus proactive, it's gonna cost you time, money, retention, reputation,
• 18:12
  and potential litigation.
• 18:14
  So I always say when you look at the newspapers and what are headlines right now, Don't you
• 18:19
  want your company in there being, Hey, we're number 1 in psychological health and safety.
• 18:24
  We took proactive action.
• 18:26
  We mitigated this risks.
• 18:28
  These risks, and our return on investment is this is how much we've saved.
• 18:32
  This is how much people love us to work for us.
• 18:35
  And come here, and we are the employer of choice.
• 18:39
  Right?
• 18:39
  Because if you ignore it long enough, it eventually goes to litigation.
• 18:44
  And then it's beyond your as a leader, owner of a business.
• 18:49
  You've lost that opportunity to make the changes you wanna change.
• 18:54
  So what are some trigger points you see?
• 18:56
  Like, when I think of it, right, like, you know, I worked in in, the employees to world
• 19:00
  for a lot of years.
• 19:01
  Right?
• 19:02
  Yeah.
• 19:02
  So I I could give you examples from my end, but I'm curious to hear from yours.
• 19:06
  It would be That manager is difficult.
• 19:13
  I switched shifts so I don't have to work with someone.
• 19:16
  Avoid it.
• 19:18
  You know, or, there's a lot been a lot of arbitrations lately.
• 19:25
  That person's, you know, the those are the favorite ones Yeah.
• 19:29
  With that manager.
• 19:31
  What are some of the things that people kind of say happens when when they're coming forward
• 19:37
  with conflict.
• 19:38
  Cause I'm thinking we're starting right.
• 19:40
  We're starting at the top, like you said, there's lots of levels to get down to before
• 19:45
  you actually demonstrate, which I think, you know, when you ask that question, I'm like, I'm
• 19:51
  demonstrating a behavior that creates psychological safety, Trina.
• 19:55
  That is a that's a that's like we're taking the elevator from 200 floors all the way to the
• 20:02
  basement and, you know, but that's a lot of levels to get there.
• 20:07
  Right.
• 20:07
  So it's it's looking at the communication.
• 20:09
  Right?
• 20:10
  Is it still the old fashioned way of top down command control and just assume and delegate
• 20:16
  but there's no reciprocal communication coming back from middle management.
• 20:20
  And the key is middle management are the buffer between frontline and senior management, but
• 20:28
  they're not getting the training or being part of the communication of brainstorming of how
• 20:33
  can resolve the conflicts.
• 20:36
  Right?
• 20:36
  Their expectation is we just have to ensure the compliance and everything's running.
• 20:43
  And they don't have unless they take it upon themselves, everybody's waiting for the
• 20:49
  employer to provide that training.
• 20:51
  So, like, trauma informed.
• 20:53
  Becoming trauma informed is a risk mitigation strategy.
• 20:57
  For any critical incident, you use it in conflict resolution, but it's a mitigation
• 21:04
  strategy.
• 21:04
  So it's like a universal precaution is what I call it.
• 21:08
  We had to wear the mask during COVID, Becoming trauma informed is a universal precaution in
• 21:14
  how we just communicate to mitigate the risk of mental health deterioration.
• 21:20
  So if frontline, if middle management, if whoever that individual is, no matter what
• 21:26
  status they are, if they don't feel safe going to their Next level up when there's issues,
• 21:33
  it's not a psychologically safe place for them to speak.
• 21:36
  And then it's not psychologically healthy or safe, because the risk cannot be identified or
• 21:41
  the hazard cannot be identified to manage it.
• 21:45
  So that's where, you know, a lot of businesses engage in engagement surveys.
• 21:51
  Mhmm.
• 21:51
  But engagement survey is only 1 psychosocial factor out of 13.
• 21:57
  So you're not getting a lot of the information you could get in the discovery or what are some
• 22:03
  of the gaps, pain points, root causes of unresolved Conflict that's present, unresolved,
• 22:09
  historical conflict that's never had an opportunity for restoration.
• 22:15
  And it's confidential and it's voluntary, and everybody gets to be a part of the solution.
• 22:20
  That's what I love about the proactive part of a risk assessment is that you're part of the
• 22:26
  solution.
• 22:27
  Everybody at every level.
• 22:29
  So when we're in Australia for the first ever conference, What was also very interesting, I
• 22:35
  had to go to Sydney, Australia, to meet 1 of the gurus in burnout.
• 22:41
  Who's from Canada.
• 22:44
  Right?
• 22:45
  I'm like, I'm talking to
• 22:46
  him last night.
• 22:46
  From afar.
• 22:47
  That's probably within, like, 20 minutes from you in Oakville.
• 22:51
  Yeah.
• 22:52
  He he's in Nova Scotia, but I'm like,
• 22:54
  well, he's in Nova Scotia.
• 22:55
  Yeah.
• 22:55
  Well, that's where he's originally from right, but why did I have to go to Sydney?
• 22:59
  To learn about a very established guru in burnout who who spoke and and what was the
• 23:07
  biggest takeaway from his speech and, his co author of the book was that burnout is not an
• 23:15
  individual problem or issue.
• 23:20
  It's, collaborative.
• 23:22
  It's the individual and it's the workplace.
• 23:25
  Because the individual cannot change the workplace culture, and the workplace culture is
• 23:31
  contributing to the deterioration of the burnout of the individual.
• 23:37
  Wow.
• 23:37
  So how do you manage psychological protection, which is psychosocial factor and create that
• 23:43
  psychological safe place where somebody could come forward and say I'm burning out because of
• 23:49
  my workload, which is a psychological hazard, is understanding that burnout needs both the
• 23:56
  employer and the employee working together.
• 23:58
  It's systems and it's management coping, but you need that open communication.
• 24:05
  Absolutely.
• 24:06
  I wanna I wanna back up and because I I think this is something that we gets thrown around a
• 24:12
  lot Trina, and I'm gonna see most people understand this, but I'm gonna say that I know
• 24:17
  what it is.
• 24:19
  What is trauma informed training?
• 24:23
  Because I think it's so much trauma.
• 24:26
  I swear it's being thrown around so much and Yeah.
• 24:29
  A lot of people think they know what it is, but I want you to define it because I'm gonna
• 24:33
  assume some leaders listening to this.
• 24:35
  They're gonna say, oh, yeah.
• 24:36
  Yeah.
• 24:36
  That It doesn't, you know, this is what it is, and this is what it's not.
• 24:39
  I want you to define that.
• 24:41
  How how I like to define it is trauma informed is like the umbrella term And underneath trauma
• 24:47
  informed, you become trauma sensitive and trauma aware.
• 24:51
  And then there's the pillars and principles of what make up trauma informed.
• 24:56
  So in the workplace, when I do workshops and I'm actually giving 1 for the Nevada State And
• 25:03
  School Administrators, of how to become a trauma informed, resilient leader, trauma,
• 25:08
  whether it's a big tier, small t, traumas impact us.
• 25:13
  And you'll have a response and it could be from historical, but the key to know when you're
• 25:18
  learning about trauma informed is trauma is that you might respond or an employee or
• 25:24
  somebody might have a response, a fight flight freeze or phone response, due to a trigger that
• 25:32
  brings them back in time.
• 25:34
  And so they're not present to fully function and they're frontal lobe, their brain, their
• 25:38
  thinking, executive thinking have shut down.
• 25:41
  The key is knowing that trauma informed means trauma is a past incident.
• 25:48
  However, if there's a current stress or conflict going on in the workplace, The person
• 25:54
  can still have the same trauma response.
• 25:58
  So whether it's called trauma informed or stress informed, trauma is a past incident, so
• 26:03
  historical conflict, historical harassing bullying that has not been resolved, But if it
• 26:10
  starts up again, now they're having also a stress response.
• 26:15
  Mhmm.
• 26:15
  Because it's immediate.
• 26:16
  It's in the current time.
• 26:18
  And their frontal lobe, their ability to function is shutting down.
• 26:22
  Your thinking, your emotions, your ability to concentrate, So you're going into a protective
• 26:29
  mode.
• 26:29
  Right?
• 26:29
  The the prehistoric time of the going the saber tooth tiger coming after you.
• 26:34
  Right?
• 26:35
  We either fight or flight while human behavior, if you feel threatened, you're gonna either
• 26:42
  fight, fight, freeze, flop is pass out, or fawn, and fawn is a reaction that's a learned
• 26:51
  behavior that happens most often in family violence and domestication issues.
• 26:57
  So when you tie even that explanation of, you know, trauma informed, of how trauma can impact
• 27:04
  us in our daily life, but also stress.
• 27:07
  Do employers, leaders know in Ontario, that there is occupational health and safety of the
• 27:15
  hazard of family violence the risk to somebody who might be involved in family violence when
• 27:23
  they're working for you.
• 27:24
  They might be the victim.
• 27:26
  They might be the the perpetrator.
• 27:29
  But in Ontario, by law, occupational health and safety law, you need to have a policy in place
• 27:35
  of how is your business gonna manage a family violent situation if it arises in your
• 27:42
  business.
• 27:43
  What protective factors policy process procedure procedure, or do you have in place if
• 27:50
  you have somebody who's involved in family violence?
• 27:55
  So say they came
• 27:57
  to work.
• 27:57
  I'm gonna assume that a lot of employers don't know this.
• 28:00
  Right?
• 28:00
  Like, you know, from the end, you know, not having not having explored that, but I think a
• 28:06
  lot of times you'll hear about scenarios, right, like, where unless and it's generally in
• 28:12
  in my the scenarios that I dealt with with the companies I was was generally a female Yeah.
• 28:16
  For females as well.
• 28:17
  Like, I mean, that's what's so happening, but you know, it was, like, kind of, you know, what
• 28:21
  steps did did they need to take, not that it's legislated that you actually have to have
• 28:27
  something because the odds are that more than likely that person could be hurt again.
• 28:31
  Yeah.
• 28:31
  So it's protecting not only your employee or the leaders C suite.
• 28:35
  Right?
• 28:36
  But it's also protecting your reputation and potential litigation because if you don't have
• 28:41
  that policy updated and something did happen, now you're liable because you don't have the
• 28:46
  policy updated and the process and all your employees know what is the procedure if
• 28:52
  somebody's involved in a domestic violence.
• 28:55
  And in Ontario, it's also been named like domestic violence, family violence, is an
• 29:01
  epidemic in Ontario.
• 29:05
  Right.
• 29:05
  So
• 29:05
  you have somebody coming in, say, pretend it's me.
• 29:08
  Say, I'm involved in a family domestic and then I come to I was just threatened before I'm
• 29:14
  going to work, and I come into work, and there's deadlines, and you're my boss, and I'm
• 29:19
  trying to focus And you're talking to me, but I don't hear you, and I'm staring at the screen,
• 29:25
  and I'm not responding.
• 29:26
  And then you get mad because you assume I'm ignoring you.
• 29:30
  But I'm actually in a free state.
• 29:32
  I'm not present because in my mind, I am in a threat response And I'm just trying to figure
• 29:38
  out how I'm gonna be safe today right now.
• 29:41
  What if he comes to the office?
• 29:44
  Mhmm.
• 29:44
  Wow.
• 29:44
  Wow.
• 29:45
  And when you put it along those lines, like, I mean, those are the scenarios that we were
• 29:48
  hearing.
• 29:49
  Right?
• 29:49
  Yeah.
• 29:50
  In the different environments that I would manage.
• 29:51
  Right?
• 29:52
  So, again, these things are so important because, of course, you want people to feel
• 29:57
  safe at work.
• 29:58
  Yeah.
• 29:58
  And if you're if you're middle managers, let's say, for instance, who you know, you know,
• 30:04
  they're they're at the front line, but they're also dealing with the C suite.
• 30:07
  They're having to have that technical skill
• 30:10
  Yeah.
• 30:10
  Right?
• 30:11
  Of understanding how what symptoms might look like.
• 30:14
  And if if, let's say, Roxanne comes to work and she is normally bubbly and giggly or whatever
• 30:20
  Yeah.
• 30:20
  In the over a period of time, you see the progression.
• 30:24
  What skills do you need to have as a leader?
• 30:27
  Yeah.
• 30:27
  Not to not to dive into the emotional part of the person's lives, but you have to speak to if
• 30:32
  the performance is being impacted.
• 30:34
  Okay.
• 30:35
  You would still have to manage performance.
• 30:37
  Yeah.
• 30:37
  But if it's still occurring, then you know it's a bit more, then that's a different
• 30:40
  conversation.
• 30:41
  Yeah.
• 30:41
  But then how do you have that?
• 30:43
  Yeah.
• 30:43
  And that skill has to be there in that manner to be able to recognize that.
• 30:47
  Yeah.
• 30:48
  So becoming trauma informed is learning not only what is trauma, the trauma, behaviors, but
• 30:54
  also understanding how to have a trauma informed conversation and learning skills to
• 31:00
  help bring that person back to the present.
• 31:02
  To support them and get them out of the trauma response that they can be productive, and it
• 31:07
  doesn't mean somebody's gonna be gone for the day If you know how to communicate and create
• 31:12
  that safe environment, you could have somebody being productive and knowing they're okay and
• 31:17
  they're supportive in they're back to work.
• 31:20
  Right.
• 31:21
  But we always discuss
• 31:22
  the cost to the employer if you don't have that skill.
• 31:25
  Like, if, you know, whatever percentage of your population, is going through lots of different
• 31:30
  things.
• 31:30
  Yeah.
• 31:31
  Again, it's creating that psychologically safe leader, I'm gonna say.
• 31:35
  Yeah.
• 31:36
  Right, to be able to hold that space for that employee with whatever they're dealing with.
• 31:40
  And if it's obviously bigger, then you're you're you did be able to deliver that message
• 31:44
  to to them to get the right supports, which is good enough to say, okay.
• 31:49
  This is a little bit bigger.
• 31:50
  I need to be a bit more involved.
• 31:52
  To be able to help them or to kind of, you know, move them on.
• 31:56
  Yeah.
• 31:56
  Now I know I know you and I can I I know we just before we got on the line, Truda was
• 32:02
  telling me a little bit of the who?
• 32:04
  And I want this is interesting because I, you know, this is just a new development But,
• 32:09
  Trina, I want you to share with us what, the legislation or the tool kit that the who just
• 32:14
  came up with.
• 32:15
  Sure.
• 32:15
  And I'm just moving around because, of course, There it is.
• 32:21
  I had it on my phone saved because it was just released today.
• 32:24
  So a lot of conversation, and it's really new around the world, is when we're looking at DEI
• 32:30
  Diversity Equity Inclusion, but what is Neuro inclusion?
• 32:35
  And what we're talking about are neuro diverse.
• 32:39
  There some people call them disabilities.
• 32:42
  Some people call them disorders, but what it means is neurodiversity means that the person
• 32:50
  has a diagnosis and that it is involving their brain, so their brain is different.
• 32:56
  Mhmm.
• 32:57
  So I recently took a course throughout Tabasco.
• 33:01
  That was amazing, but just today, And this is where it's new.
• 33:06
  It's starting to be talked about, but the World Health Organization just launched today a new
• 33:12
  toolkit to help care for neurological disorders.
• 33:16
  But we're talking about neurological disorders, some of the ones that we would, you know,
• 33:22
  everybody would find familiar is something like epilepsy, a traumatic brain injury, autism,
• 33:29
  asperger's ADHD dyslexia.
• 33:34
  So when we're talking about creating a neuro inclusive work environment now, we're talking
• 33:39
  about these invisible disabilities.
• 33:42
  And that when there are invisible disabilities, people are treated differently, and they don't
• 33:49
  feel psychologically safe in their work environment, to share that they might need
• 33:54
  accommodations or they might need not extra supports, different supports.
• 34:02
  So it's looking at sensory.
• 34:03
  So when I used to work in the schools, it was looking at, you know, if you have a sensitivity
• 34:10
  to lights, Right?
• 34:12
  Some people, they can hear the buzzing of fluorescent lights, or it's too bright.
• 34:17
  Mhmm.
• 34:17
  Right?
• 34:18
  Because that's just how their brain is wired.
• 34:20
  It doesn't make, you know, disabled.
• 34:24
  It's just the required different accommodations or environmental needs.
• 34:29
  And so now when we're looking at psychological safety and psychological health and safety, if
• 34:35
  leaders, organizations, businesses, a rdei aren't aware of what is neural inclus behavior
• 34:43
  communication, It puts you potentially at risk for human rights complaints, discrimination
• 34:50
  complaints, grievances, workplace violence, and harassment complaints.
• 34:55
  Because the person is not being treated fairly based on their invisible disability.
• 35:01
  So that's gonna add a whole completely like, a different level and a lot of, skill def would I
• 35:08
  say skill deficits?
• 35:10
  Yeah.
• 35:11
  Definitely because, you know, if if someone's diagnosis is, you know, different, like you
• 35:17
  said, like, someone's, maybe someone has ADD might, be impacted in different ways.
• 35:23
  1, new 2 people are the same.
• 35:25
  So it's individual tailoring.
• 35:27
  So it even speaks even more so to potentially conflicts that you're dealing with, that may be
• 35:33
  because of your newer diversity, a neurotypical person, and a neurodiverse person.
• 35:40
  But what if you're also another level is what if your leader is is neurodiverse.
• 35:46
  Yep.
• 35:47
  And then he or she, how he communicates to the neurotypical.
• 35:53
  So the the need for it, you know, just overall education becomes that much bigger of a an
• 35:59
  umbrella.
• 36:00
  Yeah.
• 36:00
  The the course that I took that I really liked kind of that concrete example that everybody
• 36:04
  could relate to was saying say the organization let's just call it ABC company.
• 36:12
  Right?
• 36:13
  So a b ABC company, everybody's gonna do a spelling test with their right hand.
• 36:19
  And then they're gonna be graded on their penmanship, and you have to reach a certain
• 36:24
  score to be considered for any developmental opportunities or leadership opportunities
• 36:30
  moving forward after this test, but nobody knows what the metric of the test are or what
• 36:35
  the passing is, and everybody who's left handed has to write with their right hand.
• 36:42
  So pretty much everybody who has written the test and is left handed more likely is gonna
• 36:48
  fail just because they're left handed because that's how they were born and their brain has
• 36:53
  developed that they're left handed.
• 36:54
  So now they are discriminated.
• 36:57
  And they are ruled out in the unfair process, none of them will be able to have any
• 37:02
  developmental opportunities, leadership opportunities, because their penmanship is not
• 37:08
  an up to standard of a neurotypical standard of how we've been assessing everything for a long
• 37:15
  time.
• 37:16
  Well, that's gonna turn a lot of things on its head.
• 37:20
  Right?
• 37:21
  Because, you know, if this is part of and I'm gonna tomb, and we don't we probably don't know
• 37:26
  how it's impacting us here.
• 37:28
  If it's just coming on a on a global perspective, I'm sure we'll have we'll be
• 37:33
  hearing a lot of people like off course Australia would probably respond to this, I
• 37:39
  would think.
• 37:40
  And then Canada and then also the different states of the US globally, like, within Europe
• 37:46
  and things like that.
• 37:47
  So it's it would be interesting.
• 37:50
  I can't wait to have you come back and talk about this.
• 37:52
  You know, and maybe, like me and I were chatting about, maybe have some others that
• 37:57
  could really kind of, give their perspectives because I think this is going to be something
• 38:02
  that will, maybe show the Canadian companies even more of a need to start calling in for a
• 38:11
  culture assessment like you said.
• 38:13
  Right?
• 38:14
  Maybe Yeah.
• 38:14
  And just hiring practices.
• 38:16
  Right?
• 38:16
  Because when person who's been neurodiverse and they've had to mask and hide who their true
• 38:21
  self is to try and fit in, that's being traumatized.
• 38:26
  So the whole potential discrimination of invisible disabilities, ongoing traumatization
• 38:32
  conflict, It's a lifetime.
• 38:35
  So how do organizations now?
• 38:37
  How do workplaces create psychological safety where everybody feels value, heard, gets to be,
• 38:43
  you know, how does the workplace create that environment that you show up to be your best?
• 38:48
  Mhmm.
• 38:48
  Because you can't be your best if the environment is not allowing you.
• 38:52
  Or providing you the tools to be your best.
• 38:55
  Right.
• 38:55
  Because you may be stifling.
• 38:56
  Let's say you're, you know, III heard a scenario of, a parent where the child goes to
• 39:02
  school Yep.
• 39:04
  Masks, clearly, that term.
• 39:08
  And when he comes home, what happens is it, because he's been under pressure to act a
• 39:14
  certain way he comes home.
• 39:15
  And if there's any pressures at home, then, you know, there's more symptoms that shift.
• 39:21
  Yeah.
• 39:21
  It's a meltdown.
• 39:23
  Yeah.
• 39:24
  Basically a meltdown.
• 39:25
  So, again, if we're saying, like, to your point about responsibility, of, you know, this
• 39:30
  particular offer that you were talking to.
• 39:32
  Well, what's a Canadian office name?
• 39:35
  Oh, sorry.
• 39:36
  It is Michael.
• 39:37
  Let me look it up for you because it is we could try and get him on here.
• 39:42
  Would be beautiful.
• 39:43
  That would be great because you're saying it's not just organized this
• 39:47
  out.
• 39:48
  Yeah.
• 39:49
  It's it's
• 39:49
  turned out.
• 39:50
  He's
• 39:50
  been too awful.
• 39:51
  Yeah, individual and organizational responsibility because the or the individual
• 39:57
  can't change the organization but the organization could adapt to the stressors that
• 40:02
  the individual brings to them to make real change.
• 40:06
  Yes.
• 40:07
  Sorry.
• 40:08
  Just bear with me a sec.
• 40:12
  I shoulda had it up for you.
• 40:14
  He had
• 40:17
  just published
• 40:20
  a book with the co author from the states.
• 40:28
  I remember, yeah, you you had mentioned as,
• 40:31
  yeah, Michael Lieter, LEITER.
• 40:35
  Yep.
• 40:36
  We'll need her.
• 40:36
  Okay.
• 40:37
  So and he's just published a book.
• 40:39
  So if we can find that link, that'd be great.
• 40:42
  We wouldn't have been included in the show notes.
• 40:44
  So again, going back to what you're talking about, if we're saying It can't be the employee
• 40:49
  alone because the employee cannot change a macro system, which is culture.
• 40:54
  It's a responsibility of the culture, which uses generally the organization.
• 40:57
  To understand.
• 40:58
  So if someone's coming in with your your diversity, and so again, what are the stressors
• 41:06
  that the environments, right, might present for them and how is the environment then adapting
• 41:14
  to create the space to allow those individuals regardless of what they're coming forward with
• 41:19
  to feel safe and secure to be able to come forward and be able to be the best versions of
• 41:24
  themselves at work.
• 41:25
  Yeah.
• 41:25
  So, like, 1 concrete example I have seen in 1 of my workplace assessments was somebody did
• 41:31
  have ADHD.
• 41:32
  So for them to be able to focus, they needed quiet, but there was no offices.
• 41:36
  It was all cubicles.
• 41:38
  So you can get a tent to put over your cubicle for the sensory of the lights, but to also act
• 41:44
  as a sound barrier.
• 41:46
  To help you focus.
• 41:48
  Wow.
• 41:51
  Interesting.
• 41:51
  So and, again, I think of that and that individual has to feel good enough
• 41:58
  Yeah.
• 41:59
  Be able to come forward and not feel judged.
• 42:03
  Right?
• 42:03
  Because if I have the potential of my my cubicle
• 42:06
  Yeah.
• 42:06
  Judged ashamed embarrassed.
• 42:10
  The stigma associated with that.
• 42:12
  So, again, education education education.
• 42:15
  And then that's looking at the education.
• 42:17
  I'm not just the leaders, but educating everybody collaboratively and to together
• 42:22
  because then you're gonna stop the rumors and everybody talking behind this employee's back.
• 42:27
  Right?
• 42:27
  Right.
• 42:28
  And then that's where the poise workplace comes in is when the bullying, the teasing.
• 42:32
  So if you actually provide trauma informed training for all levels and take away the the
• 42:40
  status because we're all human, then you get the collaborative learning that shows, you
• 42:47
  know, what, status doesn't make a difference when we're trying to improve culture and all
• 42:52
  become trauma informed as a universal precaution.
• 42:55
  Well, I think you're gonna be very busy for very long, there, Trina.
• 42:59
  There's a lot to be done.
• 43:01
  Obviously, here in Canada where we live, but, of course, globally.
• 43:06
  People can also reach out.
• 43:08
  So, Trina, this has been amazing.
• 43:09
  I hope that we'll come back relatively soon with some others that could really, you know,
• 43:16
  have those deeper conversations and delving to maybe even case scenarios That would be a
• 43:20
  phenomenal experience.
• 43:21
  Yeah.
• 43:21
  No.
• 43:22
  So, Trina, for everybody that's probably as riveted as I am today from all the stuff that,
• 43:27
  you've been sharing, you know, where where can, leaders or CEOs or anyone wanting information
• 43:34
  reach out to you?
• 43:35
  Well, I'm on LinkedIn under Trina Rellkov or the TLR solution for conflict, or if you Google
• 43:40
  me, TLR solutions for conflict, my website, or you could email me at trinarealcoffat TLR
• 43:48
  solutions for conflict dotca and all the informations there.
• 43:52
  Awesome.
• 43:53
  Well, what about what am I walking away with?
• 43:56
  I think, recognizing that, it really comes down to what culture do you want at the end of the
• 44:04
  day.
• 44:04
  Right?
• 44:04
  Because we are all so different.
• 44:06
  You know?
• 44:07
  And, you know, neurotypical to new newer diverse, to, gender orientation, to, racial
• 44:16
  diversity, It's it's really a bigger brand of everything.
• 44:20
  And, really, if you look around in your environments, what do you have?
• 44:24
  And those are the things that physically you can see.
• 44:26
  So now we're being taken to task to a deeper level, which is what we don't know, right, and
• 44:34
  what are we gonna do now if there is coming in the issues that are presenting be it be it in
• 44:40
  your unions, be it with your your management conflict, your conflict between teams.
• 44:47
  We could see how many different areas that we need, expertise in.
• 44:52
  Right?
• 44:52
  So Yeah.
• 44:53
  The expert just started to interrupt, but I was gonna say just that expertise, but recognizing
• 44:58
  we're all human.
• 45:00
  So to work in the silos of HR is silo to labor to silo to occupational health and safety is
• 45:06
  siloed to the wellness committee is siloed to the DEI committee department is siloed.
• 45:10
  Right?
• 45:12
  To create that psychological health and safe culture to mitigate the risk, we have to have
• 45:16
  that enter bilateral communication with everybody.
• 45:20
  Absolutely.
• 45:21
  And so just begin.
• 45:22
  Right?
• 45:23
  Just begin by looking around to your environment,
• 45:27
  you know,
• 45:27
  at your quarterly meetings when you're addressing concerns, I'd like you to start
• 45:32
  thinking what questions aren't we asking now that we have this new information and go ahead
• 45:37
  and check out what, between a reference, which is on the who.
• 45:41
  I'm sure you'd be able to find it on the website and start to ask yourself the
• 45:44
  questions.
• 45:45
  What are we doing that we need to start considering so that we can make our environment
• 45:49
  that much safer for people that may not present as being, a bit different.
• 45:55
  Again, Trina, thanks so much, for being here.
• 45:59
  And I know this is going to be a well received podcast.
• 46:02
  For everyone, you know, thanks again for hanging out, with us.
• 46:07
  I hope, that you can go on iTunes or Spotify and do a review.
• 46:12
  Let us know what you think of the podcast.
• 46:14
  Please reach out to myself or Trina.
• 46:16
  And again, if you're wanting to know how you connected relationships.
• 46:20
  You know, I've released my book, just recently, ROR, and you can go on my website
• 46:25
  roxanderhodge.comforward/quiz.
• 46:28
  Fill out a really quick assessment and it tells you how you do with communicating either at
• 46:33
  home or at work, and, we'll send you some next steps.
• 46:36
  Again
• 46:37
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 46:43
  healthy change.
• 46:44
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 46:50
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 46:54
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.
• 47:04
  Trina, thanks so much.
• 47:05
  And for everyone, take care, and we'll talk to you soon.
• 47:08
  Thanks.
• 47:10
  Bye.
• 47:10
  Bye bye.