Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Kenny Conversation | Mike Wallace | Episode #19

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Kenny Conversation | Mike Wallace | Episode #19 · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
Hello everyone and welcome back to Kenny Conversation, brought
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to you by Jags, the leader in high performance aftermarket car
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parts. Remember to go to jags.com for
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everything you need for your vehicles.
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Well, listen, I've got 2 great brothers.
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I'm spoiled, They love me and I know it because they've showed
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it to me. My whole life we've had a Kenny
0:26
conversation with Rusty and now Mike.
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I am so excited to have you on brother.
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Thank you for being on Kenny conversation.
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Well, it's it's really cool, Kenny.
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Conversation. We know you always talk.
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Now you got a conversation channel.
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Beautiful. Well, listen, I'm going to do
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you identical that we did. Big Brother Rusty.
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Going to get my glasses on here. Am I supposed to go get a pair
0:54
of those two? Look my age, you know, you, you,
0:58
you look good. You've always looked a little
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younger than me. You look great.
1:02
So, you know, when we do Kenny conversation, we remind
1:06
everybody whether it's Joey Logano, whether it's, you know,
1:11
Rusty or Tony Stewart. So Mike Wallace, Mike Wallace,
1:17
1990 NASCAR Winston Series, Midamerican Regional Champion.
1:24
That's a big deal now. Four wins in the NASCAR Xfinity
1:30
Series. 497 races in the Xfinity Series.
1:36
Five wins in the Truck Series. 115 races in the Craftsman Truck
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Series. We're coming to the end here.
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197 NASCAR Cup Series races, 14 top 10s.
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I remember some top fives in there, but in the end, 809
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NASCAR starts. Brother that that's a lot of
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NASCAR racing. Well, it definitely was a lot of
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NASCAR racing. I don't think I kind of met your
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record a year in the 900 or something range, but you know,
2:15
you think about that just to be able to say you run 800 NASCAR
2:18
races are, to me it was a big deal.
2:21
You always wish you could run more and had a better record and
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all that, but. Man, think of all the people
2:26
that have never run any. So I I'm feel fortunate.
2:30
Yeah, I agree. I feel the same way.
2:33
So when when I read those stats, off to you kind of the same
2:38
thing I asked Rusty, You know, and I know where we come from.
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We come from Arnold, MO. We're Jefferson County Rednecks.
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We make it to NASCAR. When I read those stats to you,
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where does your mind wander? To what?
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What's it make you think about? Well, honestly, when you mention
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the Winston Racing Series in 1990, you know that was the
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start of everything. When you think about it, yeah,
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you know, we were the, as you said, we're the Arnold Rednecks,
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which is a pretty high class word to use anymore, so.
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And Arnold's become quite the little metropolis.
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But you know, 1990 I had Dirt Race for many years.
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My wonderful closest friend, Brad Willard.
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At 11 in Missouri and I got together, Brad had broke his
3:25
neck in a racing incident and says hey, you know we got this
3:30
NASCAR thing and if you can help me, I got a car I bought but I
3:33
need a motor. And so we just put the deal
3:36
together and literally hermit, it's it was magic.
3:40
You know we won what, 22 out of 26 races that year and 2nd and
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5th and then and one this at that time?
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I don't know that we realized how big it was.
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Could have been you that told me or someone years ago.
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This is all you got to get a championship attached to your
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name. You know, you got to get a
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championship, whatever it is, not just a local track
4:01
championship. But, you know, we won that
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Winston Racing series. At that point, I was incredibly
4:08
envious of you. And Rusty not really, but I
4:11
mean, you guys are. You were established NASCAR
4:14
racers. I mean you got.
4:16
We were just kids from Saint Louis and we'll say Saint Louis
4:19
Arnold trying to do something. Dad did it for fun and went and
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won that championship. And lo and behold, that
4:27
championship opened the door for me to go to Martinsville later
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that year. You know, a month later,
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basically a month later and I ran well down there and.
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You know, then we worked really hard from there on Kenny
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conversation. Like I always say, I don't
4:48
assume our listeners listen to every show.
4:51
So we call audibles. It means we we're all over the
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place. You you said that Brad Willard
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helped you. I I always feel like nobody can
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stand on top of the mountain and I did it all myself.
5:08
It just never works that way. Are you saying, are you saying
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Brad Willard was the turning point in your career?
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Did it change your trajectory? Was it Brad Willard that made it
5:21
possible for you to go to NASCAR?
5:24
Yeah, I think, well, you know, as I always want to say, you
5:28
want to make sure you name the people that helped you because,
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like you said, you're not going to do this yourself.
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You know, I think the whole Wallace family can go back to
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the legendary Don Kern in St. Louis, MO.
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You know, Don's provided motors or helped all of us along the
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way. He was involved in my
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championship winning 1990 season.
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Dan Altoff, who owns the nicest trucks in the in the Fenton, MO
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area helps support it. And then Dan, Dan.
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And then Brad came along and Brad I competed against his
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family, owned I-44 Speedway, you know, and still do, right?
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Oh yeah, they do. They just reopened it last week
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and ran a, you know, a race down there and got it all cleaned up,
6:05
looking good and everything and. Going to try to keep it going,
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but Brad says let's try to go racing.
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He had bought a left-hander car is what it was.
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He had bought a left-hander chassis.
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He was going to race himself and then he got it.
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You know, I knew Brad, but like we both agreed we didn't know
6:21
each other well. He says, man, was I ever
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surprised. He said, I thought you were some
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smart ass rich kid from St. Louis that we're.
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And I said, well, you had the rich part.
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You might have the smart ass right, but didn't have the the
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record. At all, right.
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You know, if everybody realized how our whole family has
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struggled and worked really hard to get everything we got, you
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know they would be shocked. But Brad took it amongst himself
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and we've just we we ran one year together, okay, We ran one
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year together. We won the Winston Racing
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Series. We won two track championships,
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I-44 and Bolivar USA Speedway, along with those championships.
7:02
And then I got an opportunity. I I told him I remember riding
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down the road one day going to Bolivar.
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I said, man, if I, you know, you ever think you could do this
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right, You know, I could never short track race again.
7:13
I can go NASCAR racing, you know, And for some reason, and I
7:17
remember a gentleman sitting in the back seat, Jerry worked at
7:23
Consumers grocery store. I said, Jerry, you know, I don't
7:26
need much sponsorship money. I only need like $350,000.
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That's it. And he goes.
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Mike, I could retire off of $350,000.
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I just know you couldn't. That's that wouldn't get you
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nowhere. Jerry Maguire was and consumers
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grocery store says 3300 and $50,000 at 10% is $35,000 a
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year. I make 28,000 a year working at
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consumers. So yes, I'd have a raise on top
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of it. And it was, it was funny.
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Just you had to be in the whole conversation, just riding on the
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road to enjoy it. No, no, I totally get that.
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You know, listen, I'm going to say this.
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It's not you. It's my opinion.
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You have always been much smarter than Rusty and myself.
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You've always stood out. You graduated high school early.
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You know, Rusty and myself, we were, you know, hardcore racers.
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You you bring up numbers really well.
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I I feel like one of the reasons that you went to NASCAR after
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Rusty and myself was because you really loved money.
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You, you know? Would you say I'm right or wrong
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about that? I'm going to share a story to
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answer your question, and you'll love it because we all know him.
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Mike Algar, Gator Gator. Justin Algar's dad.
8:50
I remember I was down in our building in Valley Park next to
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the one you were last in, and I'm talking to him on the phone
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and we're talking about you and Rusty.
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And I remember this conversation like it was yesterday and this
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was 35 years ago. He goes, Mike, you know, and you
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got to know Gator. Everybody does.
9:06
He talks to a little accent and he goes, the difference between
9:08
you and them boys, you won't give up what you got.
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You got money and he says you're not going to give it up to go
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racing. And he goes, you got to, you got
9:16
to put it all on the line if you're going to go.
9:19
And literally we we spoke about six months ago I called to get
9:23
Justin's number from. He goes, man.
9:27
All these years later, I was wrong one night, he says.
9:29
You did finally do it. But yeah, probably.
9:32
I mean, there, you got to remember that when you have a
9:35
family, you got security, you got everything that the average
9:39
person is looking for, right? You got a nice home, got a nice
9:42
family. You got a little bit of money.
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Not crazy money, but let me stop you right there, though.
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This is this is where I'm guilty.
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I know you so good because you know, hell, we we shared the
9:53
same bedroom, right? Not the same mom and dad too.
9:57
Yeah, right. Well, I would say the big thing
10:00
though was that, you know, we had Uncle Gary who owned OK
10:04
Vacuum and Janitorial Supply, and you were in charge there
10:10
with Uncle Gary. You ran the commercial side.
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So at the time you were making good money and and in your
10:16
defense that that's hard to give up, you know, and you're running
10:21
around Saint Louis and you're winning every Mike you won 11
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weeks in a row at Tri-City Speedway in Granite City, IL.
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So. So you're making really good
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money because you're helping run Uncle Gary's business and you're
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winning everything. I mean that that's hard to give
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up and take a chance. It is hard to give up because
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you know when you say making good money.
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I was making money that's considered good money today like
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that. So yeah, and it was very hard
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and it was a real big challenge to want to do that.
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But I don't know, I I it was a huge challenge.
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But it was you and rusty or rusty and you that motivated me.
11:09
You know, you think about it, it's like, how do you, how do
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you get that desire? What drives that passion?
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And it's like. Well, I got two brothers that
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did it. You know, we come from the same
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mom and dad. We know all about this stuff and
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and I think they're driving force of it.
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But you can ask my wife, Carla, she'll tell you this.
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And I've told Brad Willard numerous people, if I didn't try
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it, I was going to regret it the rest of my life.
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I would never, you know if I would have just stayed working
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in the vacuum cleaner store and Janitora supply business and
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never gave it a shot, right? I would have just regretted it
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my whole life. It's like you know there you're
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winning races running up front and it's like I could have maybe
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done that. Well we we all we went all in
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and you know the crazy part about all in some people don't
12:02
realize this or they don't know the story.
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And I'll share it a little bit when I talk to my uncle Gary or
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loving uncle Gary, uncle we call him.
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I went to him and I says I asked him.
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And I I tell everybody the story, the few that I tell us to
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the same story. He had just come off of being
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off out of the business for one year to build a new house right
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and gone never came in. We surprisingly had the best
12:25
year we ever had in business. And I says this is what's going
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on. I got this opportunity.
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I said I need you to work with me.
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I said I'm, you always tell me I race too much and I don't pay
12:37
enough attention to the business but somehow we're doing okay, I
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says. But I got this opportunity.
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I says, you know, I won that Winston Racing Series and I went
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to Martinsville and I run really good and got a guy that offered
12:47
me a deal. I says I got to try, I got to
12:50
try to be a race car driver. I said, but do this for me, let
12:55
me take off for the rest of the summer, which is going to be six
12:58
months, and I'm going to try to go race and if for some reason
13:02
it doesn't work, I'll quit racing 100%, come back here and
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run this business and be 100% dedicated to it.
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And he looked me square. And I I still remember, I can
13:15
tell this, he says. No, I'm not going to support
13:20
that. And I went, damn, that wasn't.
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I'm thinking to myself, that wasn't the answer I was
13:25
expecting. You know, not your, not your,
13:27
your, your dad's brother. Yeah, and I finally looked at
13:31
him. I go.
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You're making me do something I don't want to do, I said.
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Now I'm going to turn into a regular employee.
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I'm going to quit in two weeks. We can't do that, I says.
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I am. And then he kind of got upset
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and he goes, well, make sure you leave your truck and your fuel
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card when you leave legendary Shell fuel card.
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Legendary. And it's like okay.
13:59
I went home because Carla and I had talked about this and I'll
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be honest with you, if it wasn't for her originally going, look,
14:04
I'm behind you, I don't we don't know what we're going to do.
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But if you want to do it, try it.
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And man, what a story. Then it was sink or swim, I mean
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got two children basically without a really good paying
14:17
job. And and I'm glad he did that
14:21
because I can guarantee you 100%, unequivocally, if he would
14:25
have said OK, come back in six months, you would have never
14:28
heard of Mike Wallace as the race car driver because
14:31
everything went wrong in that next six months.
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And you know, we would have moved back to Saint Louis and
14:37
that would have been the end of it.
14:39
So Kenny conversation is one hour and this is a deal where
14:43
you know, we could go for six hours.
14:45
But now we've established your record in NASCAR nine wins, 8
14:50
hundred 809 NASCAR starts. That's that's incredible.
14:54
You don't, you don't stay in NASCAR 809 starts if if you
14:59
haven't done something right. So you did, you did it all
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right. And now we've established how
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you left Saint Louis, which that story is absolutely amazing.
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And here we are. So let's start Kenny
15:14
conversation. What?
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What have you been up to? What?
15:18
What is Mike Wallace? What are you doing nowadays?
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I am. It's not a smart aleck answer,
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it's just I do exactly what I want to do.
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That's right. You know I.
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Last weekend I had nothing better to do.
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I flew to Miami, FL with Doug Herbert and we had lunch.
15:39
On Sunday. I flew to Saint Louis and picked
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up a vehicle and drove it back. I have three wonderful
15:44
grandchildren, you know, that are three miles from me.
15:48
We got some real estate just. It's hard to say what we do.
15:54
I do a podcast that, you know it's called Fast Part of NASCAR
15:57
with Mike Wallace. You've been doing, you know you
16:02
you've been always the the, the saving point or the person that
16:06
inspires everybody. You've been on about three
16:08
times. Everybody calls and says how
16:09
great it is to have arm on. And so I do that, and I think
16:13
that keeps me in the loop of the race world a little bit.
16:16
And I've learned a crazy amount. I've learned a lot more about
16:20
the people I used to race with and around doing the podcast
16:23
than I ever knew about it when I raced with them.
16:26
And I don't know, I just stay busy.
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I stay busy and I'm never. I wake up every day with
16:32
something to do, fun to do. We've had some real estate
16:36
that's done very well for us. So I don't don't have to worry
16:38
about where my next dollar is coming from.
16:40
I'm okay there. And you know, I just, I I always
16:46
tell people, you know, I I brag on my brothers all the time.
16:52
I always tell everybody I have a A saying for you, Mike.
16:55
I tell people, I say, listen, if the world's coming to an end,
16:59
you want to be with my brother Mike because he is, is never in
17:05
doubt always moving and shaking. And you know, out there in
17:09
Salisbury, you've done some incredible jobs with big
17:12
buildings. You rehab them, you've sold
17:14
them. You know, Rusty or myself, now I
17:19
got into real estate, but you've always been that way.
17:23
I think you're a lot like Dad, little bit like Uncle Gary.
17:27
Where do you get that business entrepreneurial?
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Where do you get that from? I don't know her.
17:35
I think you what it amounts to, you know, there's a lot of
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things are there's a few changing points in my life and
17:40
it's just not about around that racing.
17:42
You know, and I think to put it in perspective and very few
17:45
people know about it, Of course you do.
17:48
We're very attached to it. My wife and I lost a child,
17:51
Mikey, when he was two years old.
17:54
And that changes your whole perspective on life.
17:58
My my saying has been for many years, if it's changeable or
18:02
fixable, it is only an obstacle of life.
18:06
So what? What bothers a lot of people
18:08
doesn't bother me in the least. You know, I don't make.
18:12
Problems. I was little things and in the
18:16
regards to the real estate world, which, you know, I was
18:19
racing and I said, you know, I realized that was coming to an
18:22
end and it didn't have a lot of money to mess with.
18:25
So I went and bought old buildings.
18:28
You know, you're very good at it.
18:30
Cheap. You know what would be
18:32
considered junk? And my son, Matt Bobby Meese,
18:36
our great friend that you know, you help, you know, you grew up
18:39
around. We go down there and we'd we'd
18:41
physically work, not like it hired out.
18:44
We'd physically work and take them old buildings at all and
18:47
turn them into something and we'd rent them out and then all
18:49
of a sudden somebody go, wow, I'd like to buy that building.
18:52
Here's what ioffer you and we'd look at each other and go really
18:56
that much. So, you know, I I think it's
18:59
just a drive of passion. I don't like sitting around.
19:02
I'm not a boring I I don't like being bored.
19:05
If somebody says, oh, you're retired, you know you're retired
19:08
and you sit around, that's not me.
19:10
I I constantly. My wife tells me I work too
19:12
much, she says. Why are you always never
19:15
satisfied? You always want more, more.
19:17
I just. It's not that I want more, it's
19:19
just I don't like doing nothing. Yeah, you know, an audible right
19:25
now. You brought up Baby Mike 1984.
19:31
You went through the worst tragedy in life and I want to
19:35
Fast forward because I thought it was incredible how you helped
19:40
people along the way because of that.
19:44
Tony Stewart he was upset because he didn't win a race and
19:49
you you've you've taken what you've went through and I
19:53
believe that you've helped everybody.
19:57
You know that there's some people that run third in the
20:00
heat race and they're just devastated.
20:02
I I I didn't make the transfer spot and and.
20:07
Because of what you've gone through with Baby Mike, you've
20:10
straightened a lot of people out in life, Tony Stewart told me
20:16
this quote, UN quote. Tony Stewart told me this.
20:22
Mike Wallace helped me. More than three therapists could
20:27
ever help me. What's your thought about that?
20:32
Well, I can. I I remember the day.
20:34
I remember the time. I remember when it all happened
20:36
and I met Tony. I mean, I knew Tony but didn't
20:39
know him well. And we will get into the details
20:41
of it. But it was the July 4th race in
20:45
Daytona. I won the race that night.
20:47
Earlier that day, we had a conversation and I offered.
20:50
I shared what had happened in our life and I offered.
20:54
If he was so miserable, I offered to trade him positions.
21:00
You know if you got it that and you know if your your race car
21:03
is that bad. Let me drive your race car.
21:06
You come drive the car as I drive and you know your old
21:11
buddy Eddie Jarvis was his truck bus driver at the early on.
21:15
Just a bus driver for him. He introduced us and it just so
21:18
happened I won that night at Daytona.
21:22
Big win, big win and a very good person.
21:26
That was in Victory Lane was Tony Stewart.
21:29
Standing there with this huge smile.
21:31
So like 2 weeks later I'm I'm walking behind the the pit box
21:36
at Joe Gibbs Racing on a cup racing.
21:38
Joe Gibbs stops me coach Joe Gibbs.
21:40
And he goes, hey, he says I want to thank you and I says I for
21:44
what he says. I don't know what the
21:45
conversation was with you and Tony and I'm not going to ask
21:49
you what it was, but Tony looked at us and said he had a
21:53
conversation and literally his kind of like outlook on things
21:57
as way different. And he says you're inspirational
22:01
or whatever you said to him. So thank you.
22:04
And then a few weeks later that magazine, the ESPN the magazine
22:07
might have been to a month later Tony made a mention of our
22:11
conversation and I don't know he just #1 he's a great guy.
22:16
He's incredible person and I don't know, you got maybe some
22:22
people don't realize how bad that is.
22:28
I would say when people talk about people, I'm like, well,
22:30
hold on now, you don't know everything.
22:32
Yeah, I there's, you know, there's a lot of stories people
22:35
don't know, and I do since I thought I said this to you
22:38
before. But just always remember, if
22:41
it's changeable or fixable, it's just an obstacle in life.
22:46
It's when you can't change it or fix it is when it's really bad,
22:51
right? I agree.
22:52
So we we. I didn't want to.
22:56
I didn't know how to approach that.
22:57
You brought it up. It's uncomfortable for me.
23:01
I love you so much. Uncomfortable for everybody.
23:03
It's just it's you know I I remember because unfortunately
23:08
for you it follows right when your birthday was you know so I
23:12
you know when that happened but it.
23:16
It is what it was and is and never forget about it never gets
23:20
easier, gets harder and harder. But that's a that was a part of
23:23
our life that's real, real difficult.
23:26
And you know we we proceeded past that and I think that's
23:29
given us when I use the word us, that's my wife and I and my
23:33
family and you know, giving us that strength to to do things,
23:37
you know, never let that, oh, I can't do that or look what he's
23:41
got. You know no just go out and earn
23:42
it. I still think of baby Mike to
23:45
this day he he he would do that little dance and wiggle.
23:47
But brother I love you so much. So let's stay on that genre.
23:54
You win Daytona and and we do want to take a a 180 here
24:00
Daytona tell adega damn man you could you could hold a class.
24:07
You were when the Craftsman Truck Series first started.
24:12
You won the very first Craftsman truck race ever at Daytona.
24:18
Then you come back that race you're talking about that July
24:20
race in the red GEICO car mean you flat get it on you.
24:26
You ran an incredible finish in the Daytona 500.
24:29
You're on 4th at Daytona. Tell me about this Speedway
24:33
stuff. You are so good at it.
24:36
Just hard to beat talent arm. That's right.
24:40
That's right. Damn it.
24:41
You're just good. There you are.
24:42
The you don't mess around. You go through the middle, you
24:45
get it done. Yeah, You know, everybody says
24:47
there's a contributing point to something.
24:49
And I will say this, and whether you want to believe it or not,
24:51
we all throw these stories. You know, the Earnhardt name
24:55
sticks in everybody's mind forever and you always throw it.
24:58
But I was up. I was then.
25:00
This is a true story. Early in my career, I just moved
25:04
down here and I went up. I bought got a hood from Richard
25:07
Childress for charity that I was doing.
25:10
And I asked Dale Earnhardt if he would sign it for me.
25:15
And he says the only way I'm going to sign it is if you come
25:17
up and hang out at the farm all day.
25:21
And it's like he didn't realize that was a big thing to me.
25:24
I, you know, I get to hang out with Dale Earnhardt, you know,
25:27
So I went up there and literally got there at 9:00 in the
25:29
morning. And I stayed till 4:00 and we
25:33
talked, we talked about race and we talked about Daytona,
25:36
Talladega, all those type of things.
25:38
And I think I learned things that the average person didn't
25:42
get that exposure to. And then I enjoyed the racing
25:46
there. I liked racing at Daytona in
25:47
Talladega. You know, whether it was
25:50
whatever restrictor plates, whatever restrictions, and you
25:56
know the old story in racing to to.
25:58
To go, you got to go somewhere they're not.
26:00
And I remember Hornaday and I talking about it.
26:03
He goes, man, he says, you went through the middle.
26:05
I didn't know if I was supposed to follow you, but I did.
26:07
And he says holy crap, we got the mail, so.
26:11
Just fun. Would really love to go race
26:14
there, continue to race there, but that, you know my last big
26:18
race was driving Kevin Harvick's truck there and and that.
26:24
The Anderson Maple syrup truck and who won?
26:27
I won the race. You.
26:28
Know. So I drive for Kevin.
26:31
Pardon Teledega. Yeah, Teledega.
26:35
I have a That was 2010. I have a 1000% batting average
26:41
driving for Kevin Harvick. One race, one win, you bring up
26:46
Kevin Harvick. You know everybody drives for
26:52
car owners. You know it's it's never one or
26:54
two. It's more When you look back
26:56
through your career, what was the in your NASCAR career,
27:01
whether it was Junie Dunlevy or Mark Reno or I don't know who it
27:05
was, what was the car? What was that period of time
27:09
that you were the happiest you, you really liked that team.
27:12
You liked that moment? I would be shorting anybody if I
27:20
didn't say every part, every series but the one that made me,
27:25
you know, I got to name two of them because I can't name one
27:29
when I drove the two truck for Jim Smith and one Daytona and
27:33
one Bakersfield and you know, ran up front and almost won the
27:36
championship. All of that, the the performance
27:40
of that vehicle allowed me to run.
27:42
Well, now we Fast forward to only an 8 race stint.
27:48
In 2001, with Peter Suspenzo as my crew chief, I got to drive
27:53
the Mobile 1 Penske car that was a that bought myself 10 more
28:00
years of a career is what it did.
28:03
But every Thursday night we in the road crew, my, I'll phrase
28:08
it myself and the road crew would go out to eat.
28:12
I learned how to break beer bottles and champagne bottles
28:15
with my palm in my hand from those guys.
28:18
And they they, I found out they liked me so much because I admit
28:23
it, when I was wrong, if I did something in the race car, I'd
28:26
say, well, I had. I did this wrong.
28:27
Sorry guys, and go, holy crap, we haven't had a driver that's
28:31
told us they've done anything wrong.
28:32
It's always the car. So that stint right there was
28:37
the greatest in the world. I thought it was going to be a
28:40
continuation career and then it closed up.
28:44
Even though I got offered really great rides and I turned down
28:47
thinking I was going to go drive for them again and then it
28:50
closed up. But so it would have been Jim
28:52
Smith's 2 truck, the Ultimate truck to 1 Daytona and strong
28:57
performance. No matter where we went than to
29:00
my career's about over, nobody's got confidence in me.
29:04
I get the opportunity in 2001 to go drive the last eight races in
29:08
the mobile 112 car and run up front every race.
29:11
So let's stay right there. Let's D bullshit this because
29:14
that's what you know. I I created that phrase D
29:18
bullshit. So you are in the 12 Roger
29:21
Penske mobile one car and you're you're going to win Phoenix.
29:26
Brother Rusty's behind you and he's not going to pass.
29:30
You can't get past you. We love Rusty with our life.
29:35
I I don't. I'm not where I am without
29:37
brother Rusty. But you're going to win the
29:39
race. I guess it's a fair assessment
29:42
to say that you you didn't stay there because you're his
29:47
brother. You know, you, What the hell you
29:51
doing? You know, in front of Rusty?
29:56
I said all the bad stuff just now.
29:58
So how bad did that did that hurt when you realized you
30:04
couldn't stay in the car? Give me your opinion on that
30:07
whole area right at that time. Well, let me tell you what would
30:11
really hurt. I I ended up running.
30:13
I led that Phoenix race forever. OK, Jeff Burton ended up getting
30:18
by me and winning the race. I run second cup, the cup.
30:22
Race the cup car and this is the what I'm telling you this story.
30:26
This is a non exaggerated this is exactly how it came down
30:29
story 0. K So I run second.
30:32
We do all the stuff with the team.
30:34
You know, I walk back. You know, we one time had
30:37
motorhomes and all that stuff. We were pretty big time, you
30:40
know. So I'm walking to the motorhome
30:43
lot. Richard Childress is coming from
30:46
the other direction. We run into each other or, you
30:49
know, merge together at the gate.
30:52
He looks at me, he goes, man, you prove to the world you're a
30:55
hell of a race car driver, he says.
30:58
How would you like to come drive for me next year?
31:01
He said. Better off.
31:02
I'm offering you an opportunity to come drive for me next year.
31:07
I says, Richard. I would love to, I says.
31:10
But I was told the other day, other day, 2 weeks ago, that I
31:13
was going to drive this 12 car again next year.
31:17
They took me and they brought me up to the shop and showed me the
31:20
Daytona car for next year and it's got my name over top of the
31:23
door already. I said I regretfully I'm going
31:27
to turn you down. I said I never thought I would
31:30
ever say something like that in my life.
31:31
To Richard Childress, so. If you remember, that was the
31:37
year of 911 and we had to make up the makeup race at Loudon the
31:41
week after Phoenix Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving weekend.
31:44
Freezing up there, I remember I was in Pennzoil car.
31:48
Yeah. So we then go to Loudon and run
31:51
well up there and come back and there's a quote, a team meeting
31:57
called on Tuesday at Penske Racing.
32:01
Now we just come from running second at Phoenix, go to loud
32:03
and make up the 9/11 race that, you know, tragedies set in that
32:08
year. We're we're making it up far as
32:12
I know. I got a solid ride going.
32:15
Yeah. But at the same time, my older
32:18
brother told me they're going to close that team up.
32:20
Believe me, you're not going to have a ride.
32:22
Just let me. I'm telling you what's going on.
32:24
I said I don't believe you. This is Tom Deloge, who's a
32:27
partner, showed me the car. He said, I don't care what they
32:30
say, you're not going to have a ride.
32:31
And I I ignored him, you know. So we come back home and on
32:36
Tuesday they had, they Monday they sent a note out Tuesday
32:40
come to the shop, walked in that shop at 9:00 on Tuesday morning,
32:45
whole team sitting there and everybody's kind of thinking and
32:47
getting the congratulations and what's going to, you know,
32:50
transpire. Here comes Walt Zarniki walking
32:52
in. And literally in less than 5
32:56
minutes, he fires the whole entire team and says we're
32:58
closing up. The 12 car is being closed up.
33:03
It's not going to exist anymore. And boy, you talking about a
33:07
group of devastated people. And me, of course, because I'm,
33:11
you know, at that moment I'm thinking about myself.
33:13
And absolutely you have to take care of #1.
33:17
When you're in NASCAR, you fight for yourself.
33:20
Nobody. You know, so literally a couple
33:23
hours later I call Richard Childress, seeing if that
33:26
opportunity, trying to fill that opportunity.
33:30
The problem was that opportunity was a week and a half ago and he
33:33
had already found somebody to put in the car and it blew that
33:36
all apart. So a devastating go from the
33:39
highest of highs, literally the highest of highs in racing, to
33:43
the lowest of lows. And that's you also had Jack
33:49
Roush wants you to drive his car.
33:51
What What was that story about? This is a great Jack Roush had
33:58
reached out to me. I want to know if I would
34:00
replace Jamie McMurray. Drive the Crown Royal car,
34:05
without a doubt. Love to, you know, That was a
34:08
huge compliment to me and he believe it or not.
34:13
Zach Brown, who runs today, runs McLaren.
34:17
Right, The orange and black cars.
34:19
The McLaren cars. He he had had a marketing
34:22
company back in the day and he was the guy that brought UPS and
34:26
Crown Royal and all that into the sport.
34:29
He's Zac Brown, who's the head of McLaren today, come to our
34:32
motorhome and Carl is in there. He called the Ranger meeting and
34:37
come and sat in our motorhome at Daytona and wanted to know if I
34:42
would be willing and open to drive Jack Roush's car.
34:46
He and Jack would like to have me come drive the car.
34:48
Crown Royal would like to come have me drive the car.
34:51
They got a little hang up though, not 100% sure because
34:55
Irwin, who is a big associate sponsor, they thought did a lot
34:59
around Jamie and they hadn't got the clearance from them.
35:02
But they wanted to have everything in place that, you
35:06
know, they got everything squared away.
35:08
And he said, well, other than get to Irwin people, which
35:11
they're, they're invested in this for a lot of money, he
35:14
says. I think we got a deal only to
35:18
come back and say we can't get to Irwin people to change.
35:22
And I'm sorry, you know that we can't live up to the deal.
35:27
And so you know, you had all those deals that are close, had
35:32
opportunity, thought I was going to go drive for The Wood
35:34
Brothers at one time, had went to The Wood Brothers.
35:37
Jack Roush called me. Actually Jack sent me to The
35:39
Wood Brothers, called me and says hey, go up there and visit
35:42
with them. And so I went to Stuart, VA sat
35:46
down left there thinking I'm, you know, the old story
35:48
thinking, right, the most famous team in NASCAR.
35:52
Yep. And then it comes back to, well,
35:56
they've somehow Ford Motor Company won it rookie Rudd.
35:58
So they went after Ricky and found the money to hire him and
36:04
well, so you know, let me make you feel a little bit better.
36:07
My career was over too and I jumped in that Pennzoil car set
36:10
quick time at Rockingham out won the damn race and you know it,
36:16
it it it is what it is. And that's the way these stories
36:19
are pretty incredible to look back because when we listen to
36:23
the Dale Junior podcast, he he does this just about every show
36:28
now where you know Dale Junior's become very famous.
36:33
You know it's kind of like that little children's rhyme one
36:39
done. So the Dale Junior podcast now
36:42
has these people in Tony Erie Junior and it's like, oh damn.
36:48
So that was the story 20 years ago.
36:50
It is a shame that but but Mike, it's credit to you.
36:57
It's credit to you that you, you know, during those days you
37:00
don't go out and go, hey, you know, but Dale Junior is now
37:04
making this very famous where we're hearing the end of these
37:08
stories. Are you are you watching those
37:11
stories on Dale Junior Podcast? A little bit, a little bit.
37:14
But I got to share you, you mentioned Dale Junior and I have
37:17
to share this because this was just a highlight, another
37:20
highlight in my career that hardly anybody knows anything
37:22
about. Jealous, OK?
37:24
So I'm driving the number 9 car for Barry Owen and then.
37:28
Bristol Motor Speedway Dale Earnhardt got hurt the week
37:33
before. Or he'd been hurt for like 2
37:35
weeks. Right.
37:38
He's been hurt, like really bad hurt.
37:41
And all of a sudden one of the guys from Richard Childress
37:45
Racing comes over to me. Danny Lawrence is who it was.
37:49
I remember Danny Lawrence comes over.
37:51
He says, hey, Kev Earnhardt wants to see in his trailer.
37:54
Can you come over there? I'm driving for Barry Owens in a
37:57
nine car FDP. Cards like Sure, I go over there
38:01
and I walk up front. And I so remember Teresa
38:04
Earnhardt was sitting there, Dale was laid up on the couch.
38:08
And then Richard walks in and Dale looks at me.
38:12
He goes, look, I'm hurt, he says.
38:16
And I might have to get out of this car tomorrow night, and I
38:20
need somebody that will drive this thing, and I think you're
38:22
the best person in here to drive it, he says.
38:26
But you got to promise me, That is, if you want to do it, you
38:29
won't make an ass of yourself. That's exactly what it said.
38:32
Don't make an ass of yourself. I says, well, first of all,
38:36
thank you very much. I mean for considering me.
38:38
There's forty other Bush drivers over there, right?
38:41
And they come and get Mike Wallace.
38:43
Richard says, man, we're all good.
38:44
Everybody's great. We're looking forward to it.
38:47
And I still remember this. He looks at me, Dale looks at
38:51
me, Dale Earnhardt himself, he goes, all right, go out there,
38:54
fit yourself in that car, see if we can you can change in and out
38:57
of it. And he says once you get settled
38:58
in, you take that thing out and practice some.
39:01
What track was this? That was at Bristol Motor
39:03
Speedway. Oh damn.
39:06
So I got to let me fast for it. So we set the car everything.
39:10
I'm going to make it fit regardless, right?
39:13
It fits chocolate. Myers walks up to the window and
39:18
he said all right, they told me you're supposed to practice,
39:21
tighten up and go out there. I've I practice the three car
39:25
while Richard Childress says Dale Earnhardt.
39:28
So we come back Sunday and but now this time Earnhardt.
39:31
Dale Earnhardt. I still have it in my closet.
39:33
I have it in the drawer ups it's I got a GM good red shirt that's
39:38
got daily wrote in the collar of it.
39:41
He says here's a shirt wears a hat.
39:43
He says where you're right now. This is Earnhardt.
39:45
Tell me, he says. Where are your normal uniform?
39:49
That was a high like Meyers uniform or FDP uniform I had at
39:52
that time, he says Put this shirt on as a black GM, good red
39:55
shirt and the hat. Leave your uniform down and make
39:59
you sit up on top of the pit box.
40:02
So I there's this cool picture of me said, now I'm like a damn
40:05
star man, but chocolate comes up to me at the start of the race.
40:09
He goes, where's your where's your street clothes at?
40:14
He goes, You might as well go get them Damn things.
40:16
He says. He's not going to get out of
40:17
that car. I said no, he said he was.
40:19
He says. I'm telling you he's not going
40:21
to get out. He's going to end up laps down
40:24
and he's not going to get out. But thank you for being here.
40:28
So the end of story was he ended up 9 laps down but he wouldn't
40:32
get out of the car. But he asked me to drive the car
40:35
and I practiced the car. Well, you, you know, Dale Senior
40:40
and Rusty were a lot of like they didn't like teammates and
40:43
they don't like anybody on their turf.
40:44
You know it. It it's.
40:46
It we all know that Dale Senior didn't like Mike Skinner just
40:50
being around him, you know, he probably liked Mike.
40:53
But just like get away that I think that's Mike.
40:56
I think that's from being born in the 50s, something like that.
40:59
You know I'm the man. Don't be around me.
41:02
And yeah, I think Rusty and Senior were a lot alike, Yeah.
41:09
And the other story with Earnhardt, and since we're on
41:11
him, I was driving Barry Owens, his car at Charlotte, he had his
41:15
own Bush car. We started under restart, came,
41:19
you know, he's leading the race, I'm running second.
41:22
I drove down in Turn 3 and literally hit him in the left of
41:27
the quarter panel and spun Dale Earnhardt out.
41:30
Damn. You know, it's like, oh hell,
41:32
this is going to be bad, bad, bad.
41:35
So we finished the race and I go find him.
41:38
I I don't let. I don't let no grass grow.
41:40
I'm be lying down. Where's?
41:41
Your heart at. And I looked at him and we'd
41:44
already created a little bit of this relationship you know from
41:47
up at the farm and stuff like that.
41:49
And I and I said, man, I am sorry.
41:52
I am really sorry. He looked me square now I just
41:55
as nice as can be. He says did you mean to do it?
41:59
I said well, hell no. I didn't mean to do it.
42:01
I was just racing hard. He says we're good then.
42:03
And that was it. That was.
42:06
Well, that that's how he spun everybody else out.
42:08
He didn't mean to do it either, you know, But it's just, it was
42:10
not like you're a little jerk or a little ass or anything.
42:13
It's just like, did you mean to do it?
42:14
Nope. And.
42:16
These are great stories. Yeah.
42:18
Yeah. Well, brother you to me, you
42:21
know, we all want, you know, even even talking to our Big
42:25
Brother Rusty, who has done it all.
42:27
I tell everybody how much I love Rusty, how much I love you.
42:33
Even interviewing Rusty at the end there you know he he wanted
42:36
more out of his career and you know you want you wanted more I
42:40
wanted more but here we are you know we're of age now and life
42:45
is good We we got our health we got our children So let let's
42:51
let's start wrapping it up here. My God, we're already almost at
42:55
an hour let. Let's talk about just for a
42:58
little bit here, because I think it's very intriguing.
43:02
You have your daughter Chrissy, You have Matt and Lindsay.
43:05
You have you have 2 girls, 1 boy.
43:08
They're all wonderful kids, equally wonderful.
43:12
But Chrissy, if anybody's able to go back to the archives, she
43:18
was unbelievable. She was a great race car driver,
43:22
won the Lebanon I 44 champion up here in Lebanon MO.
43:26
The boys did not like her, but she can flat drive.
43:32
Just, just. I don't want the whole story.
43:34
But I mean, just tell me about Chrissy, just how good she was.
43:38
You had to go with it because she was getting the job done.
43:42
Well, she she was, she was a talent and still is probably a
43:46
talent. She's going to actually called
43:48
me last night. She lives right down the street
43:51
here she is going back to Hickory and tri-county to run 2
43:54
races this year. She made a deal with someone and
43:58
she's going to go run a late model.
44:00
She was just a kid with natural talent, you know started in
44:03
those Bandolero cars and then went to Legend cars and Kurt
44:07
Andrews helped her a lot and they want a lot of stuff and got
44:11
the Late model good late model over at I-44 and won a bunch of
44:14
races over there. They won the championship won
44:16
what was at that time you know they that was run under the ASA
44:20
banner. So she she won, literally won
44:24
the ASAW championship of what was called the Joe Gibbs Driven
44:30
series at that time. She raced Jeb Burton, believe it
44:34
or not for the championship. He was over here racing.
44:37
She was over there. But she's done a lot of really
44:39
cool things other than being a race car driver.
44:42
You know, she walked the red carpet at the ESPY Awards.
44:45
I said, hey, and Lindsay, I said, well, who like who walked
44:48
around you? She goes, well, David Beckham
44:50
was behind me and then Serena Williams was in front of me and
44:54
I went, holy crap, that's like big time.
44:55
She goes, Oh yeah, and she rang the closing bells.
44:59
The New York Stock Exchange had articles in the Wall Street
45:02
Journal, but just she was fast and really didn't have any major
45:06
fear. It seemed like in it she was a
45:08
little ahead of her time from the woman's side of things.
45:13
I remember her running. The great race she ran was at
45:17
Martinsville and Tony Stewart helped her the whole time,
45:20
meaning he helped her all through practice.
45:22
It was the first race she running a big time deal.
45:25
A Toyota truck driving for Jermaine Racing and Tony stayed
45:29
down during her whole practice and I was spotting and then I
45:34
then I I spotted for the race and Darrell Walter I remember
45:37
this during the race this is spotting her neck.
45:39
She's running well. She In the story, she finishes
45:42
19th on the lead lap, but she gets run in the back of and I
45:48
go, well, it's okay, honey. And Darrell Walter comes across
45:53
the TV broadcast. He says.
45:55
I've been called a lot of things from my spotter of my life, but
45:58
I've never said it's going to be okay, honey.
46:02
Your daughter. Yeah, you know, the the race
46:04
that I really impressed me was at Kentucky.
46:06
I think she qualified third in the Truck Series.
46:09
Yeah, got on the inside of Jack's brag and.
46:13
And got a little loose fun out, but so that was Jermaine.
46:16
That was the Jermaine trucks. She was.
46:18
Anything she did in the Truck Series was for Jermaine Racing.
46:22
Bob Jermaine had had high hopes for Chrissy.
46:25
You know, he was going to their Jermaine Automotive group, was
46:29
going to take her places and everything was going well.
46:33
But you know, I really hate to use the wording because you
46:36
would think there was a recovery process to it, but the financial
46:40
crisis of the 0809010 deal put a burden on everybody, put it on
46:46
the the car business and all that.
46:47
And that was self funding. They were funding the deal
46:50
there, theirself. And they just says we can't do
46:53
it anymore. And you know, at that time they
46:55
didn't go out trying to find a sponsor.
46:58
She hadn't run really enough to get things, you know, you know
47:04
how racing goes. I mean this is a true story.
47:07
This is not to be a Lisa Kennedy sent us a letter.
47:11
The owner of NASCAR, yeah, sent us a letter talking about I read
47:18
the article about Christy's championship.
47:20
I seen her article in the Wall Street Journal.
47:22
I want to help her. I still have the letter.
47:25
I mean, I have the so and it's so conveniently.
47:29
I was in Daytona a couple weeks later for something and went and
47:32
sat down with her and she says I want to help her.
47:35
I don't know how to help her. She's I've never found a sponsor
47:38
in my life. That's when her, her son, Ben
47:40
Kennedy was racing. She says.
47:42
We just make sure he's got what he needs and I want you to go to
47:45
Charlotte or you live in Charlotte.
47:46
I want you to go to downtown and make it happen.
47:50
I'll have my people make it happen.
47:53
Well, you know how those stories go.
47:55
It's never done until it's done. That's never done.
47:58
The other, the people that were supposed to make it happen
48:00
didn't make it happen. And even though the boss told
48:03
him to find something that didn't, but that's it.
48:08
But Christy was a talent that I really wish.
48:11
I really wish for her sake she would have had a chance to
48:15
continue that career to see how it played out.
48:17
Because I I think she would have been, you know, they're they're
48:20
playing for right now. You know, hey, we need a girl
48:23
racing or we need some. She would have been the one that
48:25
would have would have proved to make it.
48:28
Yeah, I. And and I'm going to say this
48:31
for the people that are watching this.
48:32
You know what happened? It's this way.
48:36
It is this way in NASCAR everybody.
48:38
All it takes is time and circumstances.
48:41
You know, sponsor backs out. It gets too hard.
48:44
I mean, I think the same. You know, Mike, let's switch to
48:48
Matt. To me, Matt, Oh my God.
48:52
I mean what a talent I I was. I watched Matt win all the time.
48:58
I go to, I go to New Smyrna and I watch Matt win.
49:04
You know, the World Series of Late Model Racing, he wins and
49:08
then do. Do you think Matt quit racing
49:13
because he was worried that it was going to take too much
49:17
financing and he didn't want to be disappointed?
49:20
Why? Why did Matt not keep racing?
49:23
Because I know how talented he is.
49:28
You know, you would think I'd know this answer, but I really
49:32
don't. I think the one thing he made a
49:36
I'll tell you the story. Well, I'll tell you the real
49:38
story that drove this. I'll tell you the players of it.
49:41
So he is out of Concord Motorsports Park.
49:44
He outruns. Harrison Burton I.
49:46
Remember for that big break? OK.
49:49
So up to that point, up to that point, we were talking to a guy
49:53
by the name of Jack Irwin. Right.
49:58
We're, I'm talking to him for two months.
50:02
Yeah. We, you know we like what we see
50:03
in Matt dot dot dot, we're going to consider and I don't even
50:06
know what being on the Toyota deal involves.
50:08
I'm thinking instead of going to put you in a ride only that
50:10
they. So on Monday I now Matt I got to
50:15
understand Matt and I are driving down the road.
50:16
I'm driving and you know how somebody can hear your
50:18
conversation in a phone but you're not intended for him to
50:22
hear. So Matt's sitting next to me.
50:24
I called Jack and I said Jack, hey, you know Mike Wallace.
50:28
How you doing? Hey Mike.
50:29
Yeah, I said, well, I just want to let you know, you know, we're
50:32
we're getting close to this conversation about Matt.
50:34
And I said, you know, you won Saturday night out Ron Harrison.
50:37
He says, oh, I know I was there. I seen it.
50:40
It was incredible, he says just an incredible talent.
50:45
He says now we got to get down to the most important part.
50:48
He says, how old is Matt? I says well he's 20, he's going
50:53
to be 21. He goes, that's where our
50:56
problems at. He's too old for our program.
50:58
And I looked at Matt and you could just see his face just go
51:03
like this. Devastating.
51:05
It devastating me. He's not even 21 years old yet.
51:08
He hears the guy that's, you know, you can read about Jack.
51:11
I don't even really actually know him, you know, I just
51:13
talked to him on the phone. All good people, but they get
51:15
they've been given these, you know, Yeah.
51:17
And so that that deflated his balloon and then he continued on
51:23
and won races and things like that.
51:25
And nice lady Pat Pendleton who owned Unkers was the greatest
51:31
sponsor for him, you know. And then she ended up not being
51:35
able to continue that, you know would do anything to do she send
51:38
up selling her company. And Matt looked at after that
51:42
story there he looked at his mom and I says, look I don't want
51:46
you to break yourselves to make a career for me that I might not
51:49
have. What a smart.
51:50
Kid, he said. And he says if he's I'll be
51:53
honest with you and he's watched us in the real estate business a
51:56
little bit. He says if you want to spend
51:59
money on me just buy me a couple rental houses that I can so so
52:06
basically I didn't buy him one I just gave him one that we had
52:11
and he's now he's he's got ten of them.
52:13
He owns 10 houses and he he told me the other day it was really
52:17
crazy because you know, he still has too late.
52:19
Miles still has his truck and trailer.
52:20
I begged him to sell it for a year now and he refuses to sell
52:23
it. I think that's he doesn't want
52:25
to cut the cut the cord as they say, totally.
52:27
And he says, you know, I'd really like to go back racing.
52:32
So he didn't want his mom and dad breaking their selves,
52:36
trying to make a career after he found out there might not be a
52:40
career. Yeah, Matt's extremely smart.
52:42
All three of your your children, Lindsey, Chrissy, Matt.
52:45
They're wonderful people. Well, brother, you know, these
52:49
are cautionary tales. But you had a wonderful career
52:53
and you know these are things that happen in the sport.
52:59
I love you so much. Thank you for loving me and and
53:02
a lot of people say what's Mike doing?
53:04
And I'm so happy that. That would get rusty on you on
53:09
back-to-back. That's what my that's what my
53:12
brother Mike is up to. We get along extremely well.
53:15
We talk and on the phone and I'm living in Saint Louis.
53:21
Mike is in North Carolina. And brother, thank you for being
53:26
on Kenny conversation. Yeah.
53:28
Well, thank you for having me. And congratulations to you.
53:32
You have your whole family back in St.
53:33
Louis. Yes, Got all the kids back
53:36
there, grandkids and everything now.
53:38
So your life is all united back. Our kids are here.
53:41
You mentioned Matt. Him and Sarah had a baby about a
53:43
year ago. Our oldest daughter, Lindsay is
53:46
is pregnant again. She's going to have a baby in
53:49
January. So.
53:50
And we're getting ready to go on a family cruise here in a week
53:52
or a month. Excuse me?
53:53
A month. Life's good.
53:55
Life can't get much better. So I'm excited.
53:58
Yeah, well, that means the world to me.
53:59
Well. I want to remind everybody we
54:01
are in podcast form. You can listen to the Kenny
54:05
conversation, the Kenny Wallace Show.
54:07
You go to Spotify, iTunes, listen to it on the way to work,
54:11
from work on the way back home. And until the next Kenny
54:15
conversation, we just keep on rolling.
54:17
Thanks a lot everybody. Love you, brother.
54:21
Love you more.