Latest / Story Games / Episode 16: Interview with Daniel Bronson-Lowe AUDIO FIXED
Transcript
- Maggie Studio: Friends, and welcome back to Story Games, a podcast all about your favorite narrative-driven games. My name is Momo, and I will be your host. So by now, you might have watched me play The Librarian's Apprentice, which is a solo journaling role-playing game. Today I'm really excited because I got to sit down with Daniel Bronsonlowe, the creator of the game, and we had a really fun conversation. I won't take up too much of your time, so enjoy my chat with Daniel Bronsonlow. Hello, Heart of the Dear Nicorn friends. Welcome back. We have a very exciting guest today. By now, you might have seen my video playthrough of The Librarian's Apprentice. And today I have Daniel Bronson Lowe here, who created the Librarian's Apprentice. So I'm excited to dig deep and ask some questions about his game that I had so much fun playing. ⁓ but without further ado, ⁓ would you like to introduce yourself? ⁓ sure. ⁓ my name is Dan. although out on on the internet, I tend to show up more as almost bedtime theater. And yeah, ⁓ I I am lucky enough to get to create games, design games, ⁓ share them with ⁓ share them with folks. Yay! I love it. ⁓ I have been able to play the Librarian's Apprentice and Song of the Scriptworm, and I adored both of them so much. ⁓ I'm so psyched to talk about but before we get too into that, would you like to ⁓ explain the librarian's apprentice in your own words? ⁓ goodness. the librarian's apprentice. Is a love letter to libraries ⁓ that happened when I wondered what would what would you get if you took Kiki's delivery service and put it in the Stygian library? so if those touchstones make sense to you, you you're probably the target audience. and and that's what came out. ⁓ so it's about exploring this infinite great library that ⁓ floats around be you know between all places and times and just finding all the wild stuff that's there. Yes, I loved the backdrop of this library that could be anything, because it really just opens the door to whatever comes through in your your game is like there's there's a spot for that. And I had so much fun. I it's always great to hear that. Yeah, I had a great time. ⁓ in a similar vein, would you like to describe Song of the Scriptworm in your own words? Okay. So S Song of the Scriptworm's a little trickier. Librarians Apprentice came together in like a weekend. Scriptworm took a year and a half. ⁓ so it's a bit more complex. Song of the Scriptworm is a it's a mystery that's taking place in the same library. And you are trying to solve it by not just exploring, but I I wanted it to be more about discovering like who lives in the library rather than just what are what are the documents that are there, but like What's the infrastructure? And so you're you're going through and you're getting to explore that side of the library, like meet more people ⁓ as you try to solve this this mystery that's also tied into a fairy tale ⁓ to some degree, how depending on how much you want to lean into that. And ⁓ Yeah. So it's it's ex it's exploration ⁓ of its own accord, but just getting to see more of the place and and get more involved in it. ⁓ yes, I loved, I loved, loved both of them. Definitely different, at least for me, different vibes between the two. ⁓ whereas The Librarian's Apprentice was more world buildy and Song of the Scriptworm was more I guess a story unfolded that I maybe wasn't going into expecting to happen and a whole, you know, plot developed from it. ⁓ so they're both very fun in very different ways, but still have that really cool library backdrop that I adore as a book lover. Excellent. Excellent. Yes. Awesome. So let's dig into some of these questions, shall we? I mean, the library is an integral part of the game. It is the basis of the game. ⁓ why a library? I really like libraries. There's the short answer. as as the players in ⁓ the various gun games I run can attest, ⁓ there's I I always shove a library in, ⁓ because yeah. ⁓ When I was growing up, I obviously spent a lot of time in a library. I was one of those kids, ⁓ and then started volunteering at the library, and it was just always this place I loved. So that combined with ⁓ various authors that creating these these libraries, whether it's Pratchett and the and El Space and the librarian, or you know, I mentioned the Stygian library already, but it's just it's just such a fascinating space. ⁓ one of those things that can so easily go from Something that seems very mundane, but then just slips into the magical so easy. ⁓ and it so it's yeah. I mean, gotta have a library. Gotta have a library. Gotta have one. And yeah, the second you introduce magic library into anything, it's like you can just take that and run with it. ⁓ which is just so delightful and fun. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yes. It's it's really been great actually to see all the different ways that folks ⁓ envision the library. I've I've been fortunate enough that that people will share. You know, sometimes they'll just email me and it's like, I did this thing. Here's here's this Google document. If you want to look at it, it's like, of course I want to look at it. Are you kidding? ⁓ I would love to. And and it varies from ⁓ you know, people will draw little comics of of their travels to just like full on novella kind of thing. You know, it's these these stories and and then ⁓ Man, g some of it just gives me chills. It's it's like this is so good. I love it. so I I I've seen everything from you know, just things that really delve into what turned out to like their own vision of of the scriptworm and how it was this loop and and and really got into like the sometimes just ⁓ it's like what's the categorizing system or the categorization system and how there's these schisms in that ⁓ and that go on. ⁓ There was one where they ⁓ they skinned it as a Warhammer forty K library. You know, it it just runs the gamut and it's always wonderful every time to see what it turns into for their vision of the library. It's it's so I I love that it has that room. It has that space for all those variations. Absolutely. ⁓ that is so delightful that people like share that with you too. ⁓ 'cause imagine as a creator, that's like cool to see your baby be used in a way that other people find inspiring and fun. ⁓ that's just delightful. Absolutely. Absolutely. And with my own playthrough, the way I envision the library is definitely this kind of like interdimensional, not quite a space that exists in like a physical reality. But more so like you open a door and you're in a whole new world and then you open another door, it's a whole new other world. Like it's these microcosms of environments. And maybe if you went out like a different door, you'd like, I don't know, find yourself in a desert or something. Like Yeah. One of these things where it's like, ⁓ what's the touchstone I'm pulling from with this? where like you could just like kind of how's moving castle, actually. Okay. With his different like wheel and the different wheels kind of like Take you to different places. Sort of like that. ⁓ which sounds a a lot more out there now that I'm like t explaining it. It makes sense in my head. Very cool. Yes. ⁓ gosh. And just like it was such a easy kind of role to slip into of this, like really, especially with librarians apprentice, world buildy kind of, okay, what how wild can I get with it? Like what how can I go crazy with this? ⁓ which is fun, especially because the tables that you roll on are so varied and imaginative. And I want to poke your brain, where do those come from? Where do those ideas come from? Well, I I have to I have to agree the tables, ⁓ man, the tables. ⁓ when I was when I was trying to decide whether or not this was working. Librarians, you know, this this idea for Librarians Apprentice was working. ⁓ I ended up I I just tried out. One of the the document table. It's like how how is the document, you know, how is the information encoded kind of thing? And I rolled up a just a a couple of things on there and I was like, that is such a cool idea that I wouldn't have thought of in a table that I made. How does that work? But I love it so much. And it was like, okay, I think I think this is gonna work. tables are tables are fun. I really enjoy making those spark tables. ⁓ For me, it's it's trying to find the right combination again of that mundane and magical. So that that when you're rolling stuff up, sometimes it's it's gonna give you these these odd combos, these juxtapositions that that ⁓ sometimes just aren't gonna make sense on the surface. But when you really start thinking about it, it's like, how can I make this work? Then then these these connections start popping up and these ideas that you wouldn't again wouldn't have necessarily been something that would have just popped into your mind right off the bat. But But now that's this cool, interesting twist. and so they they do usually I'll I'll just go through and it's like I'll just come up with what are all the first words I can think of to put down. And then I'll go then I'll go through and I'll like cut at least half of those. It's like, okay, sure. How how can I take that word and and take it the next next level? You know, make it a little odd, make it a little strange, make it little more extreme. ⁓ so that you again end up with this this juicier table to work with. yeah. I I really enjoy the tables. That's awesome. I think ⁓ because the document table specifically is very evocative and very they're not documents that you would immediately think of when you think of documents in a library. They're esoteric and weird and out there and don't make sense a lot of the time. ⁓ one of my favorite ⁓ you know, uses of these tables was when I was playing the librarian's apprentice and think it was like almost one of the last documents that I was trying to find. And it was like the sound of trees or something very esoteric like that. And I was like, okay, how can I make that work for what I'm trying to do here? And what I ended up with was a music box. ⁓ one of those like old timey music boxes with the little the little ⁓ nubs on them that played the sound of trees. And of course that was like a also very esoteric, whatever that means. But yeah, just these tables and these combinations of ideas and concepts and themes really are just enough guidance to give you something to work toward, but open-ended enough to where you can like run with it in any direction. That that was the goal. So that's great. You did great. You really nailed it. ⁓ beautiful. I love it. so my next question for you. ⁓ why make this a solo game? That is an excellent question. So this was this was my first foray into solo games. I had, and it was really only the second ⁓ TTRPG that I was attempting to create and like to publish. And it was from when Firelights had come out. So RP with Fierry RPGs had just come out with Fire Lights. and was was really inviting people to come play in that system as he does. It's like here's a here's a new system. You know, build things with it. Which which is just wonderful. ⁓ and so I had I had grabbed it, I take a look, took a look at it and and was like, this is this is really fun. This is really interesting. What would be something that I could do with that? And then, ⁓ I know what I want to try. So from that perspective, it was in part an introduction to solo RPGs for me. because I hadn't dabbled in them or really played them much before then. But it just felt it just felt fun. ⁓ so I that's what got me started on it. And it really has then for me progressed into more and more solo RPGs, ⁓ both playing them and just reading them and enjoying them and then also making them. it it I I don't know, it it's that I it's that kind of fun that I really I really do enjoy. ⁓ it's it's fun to run games for people and and the like, but I'm also very much an introvert. So getting to have it's like this is a game I can play just by myself. This is cool. so that like you know, it really was that introduction for me into that world. And ⁓ and I'm so glad that I've ended up here because it's just been a neat space to to discover. ⁓ and and I'm seeing I'm seeing y you know, on social media and the like More and more ⁓ more and more people who are are similarly just discovering it. ⁓ a lot of a lot of book people and people who like the journaling side and they're like, why did I not know about this? ⁓ yeah. And it's like, yeah, it's it's it's kind of its own ni little niche world, but it's it's expanding a little. People are starting to find it. So that's really cool. ⁓ yeah. It's definitely having its moment, I feel like, where more people are discovering it and realizing, ⁓ this is like a really cool way to experience games. ⁓ solo RPGs are some of my favorite games of all time. ⁓ they're kind of what got me into this space. And I I think they're so special and so fun. And I just, ⁓ I can't get enough of them. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. It's amazing what people are doing with them. And and it's like, it doesn't matter what what your vibe is, what what kind of story you want. They're pr you you're gonna find something out there because there's so many and they they cover so many little stories and it and it just from very generic to what I really like are are these more curated ones. Now I that's what I'm watching for where it's like there's a story, there's there's a conversation there with the creator that they have they have set this out so that you you get to experience that thing that's in their mind a bit. ⁓ love it. Yes. I jeez, I started with Core Eco was my first one. ⁓ which is still one of my favorites. And then I've gotten to play like ⁓ some of Paul Sega's. I've played like the Balsam Lake Unmurders, which is a good one. Yeah. ⁓ I'm about to start a run through of Thousand Year Old Vampire, which I'm so excited for. there's just so many of these amazing games that allow you to tap into whatever it is that you want to explore. And that's like the beauty of it. Cause when you're playing with the game with other people, that's fun in a completely different way. And you're all kind of bouncing off of each other. But when you're just sitting with yourself, you pull things out of yourself that you didn't know were in there. And that's really exciting for me. Yes. Yes, definitely. Love it. Definitely. Speaking of ⁓ something that is being plain fun, something I found incredibly fun about the librarian's apprentice was the tactile aspect of it. You have these bookmarks and these like trifolds, and it all like folds together in this really neat little package. And I've not seen that. In a solar RPG before. Usually they're in a book. So ⁓ I want to pick your brain about that a little bit. Yes, that was wow. That was one of the things that I think really benefited from the fact that I didn't know what I was doing. that I was brand new to the space and I had this idea. and it it's because it started out, it was just ⁓ it was just one trifold because I was I was hacking firelights and it was, you know, just the one pager. And then it quickly became that second one because I wanted more tables, right? I wanted more things and the and the events and stuff and I wanted to build on it. So I gave myself a little more space. So now I've got two pamphlets. Now what do you what do you do with two pamphlets? How do you get that to somebody, right? And so I'm trying to figure out well, you know, if I'm actually going to print this thing, which I admittedly made entirely for myself and maybe slightly for my kiddo. ⁓ you know, if I if I want to try to get this out to somebody else, pretty much you're looking at, you know, I'm looking at itch, because that's kind of where I'd learned to to go and and making, you know, there's a couple trifolds, so it could be a kind of a print and play thing. But what if I what if I wanted to make them really make them, really get them printed? And by luck of the draw, so I I sent off for a a packet from one of the printers. Actually I did it for a couple printers, so they could send me a sample pack, right? And ⁓ sample pack shows up and I pop it open and it's like, ⁓ cool. There's these different kinds of ⁓ paper and what kind of finishes they've got. But what really got my attention was the box it came in, which was this little cool folded box. And I was like, this is so cool. What could I do with this box? and I quickly got in got in touch with the printer and I was like. Seriously, the box. How how does that work? And they're like, we don't print the box. And I'm like, that's the one I want to know about. so somewhere around here I still have the prototype, which was I I basically the I made myself a little box out of the the the cardboard from from serial boxes to mimic their box. ⁓ and then I took the the printouts that they'd sent me or the the the printing examples and And I tried turned those into trifolds. And then I cut out some little things that were like bookmark shaped. and then eventually I cut slots and put in, you know, ⁓ a library card. A library card would be fun, right? And so I've got this, this, this prototype. It's such a sad little prototype, but it was anytime I was working on Librarian's Apprentice and I was thinking, is you know, am I really doing this? I dig that out. Cause just opening it up and having all the pieces as as, you know. A a a as plain as they were, or little bits of paper that were stuck in there every time. It was just like I've I've gotta do this. I've gotta figure out how to make this work. I love that so much. And so it was that tactile piece was so huge for me. that that was what I wanted. So I figured, even if I only get like one of these printed, I will have my copy. I love that. But but yeah, then it turns into the turned into this thing where You know, it's three different printers. Somebody prints the box, somebody prints the trifold, somebody else is printing the library card. and the very first set, so it did the little crowdfunder for it and it, you know, it was like, yay, I I did a crowdfunder and it funded. the those boxes, like the little slots of the library card went in. I did not know enough at the time to have asked for those to be die cut. So it's like I hand cut all the little slots to put the library cards in. It was this whole process to take all these pieces together and and ⁓ all the all the libraries had to be hand cut and I had to cut the corners, little stamp. And you know, it was a few hundred copies. So it was enough that it was like, ho ho hokay, you know, we we did it. We made it. And then it kind of took off. And I'm thinking. I I can't keep up with that. So it rem it remained, you know, I I found ways to to help, like, ⁓ yes, let's get those die cut when you print the boxes. So I'm not using an X Actor knife to make that work. ⁓ But ultimately it was for for quite some time it remained this process, ⁓ which part of I enjoyed. You know, it's fun to be the one assembling. It's like somebody's somebody's getting this thing, ⁓ thing I made. ⁓ but at a certain point it was also. I can't keep up with this. At some point you gotta be like, ⁓ okay, that's that's I've had that. Yeah, yeah. Find a way to just get those those made. so so ultimately went that route. But it again, it was one of those things where if I if I knew what I was getting into, I would have been a bit more wary about saying, I've got to make this happen. So I'm so glad that I didn't know better. 'Cause I really love that box and the and the card and everything else. It's really special. Like you open it up and you're like, ⁓ I'm gonna have a fun time. Like this is gonna be special. It really is that that tactile aspect of it that sends it a little above and beyond for me, ⁓ to make it just a really special game. Especially with a little library card. ⁓ my god, come on. You've gotta have a library card in a library. And the little bookmarks that have like the character sheet on it, just love it. Yep. Love it. It was it was a lot of fun too to use that. used a little bit of extra space like the inside so you could ⁓ just just to give it give it a little more story about totally what's going on in this world. Just a little if you want them, they're there. ⁓ and I I envisioned that maybe somebody somewhere would would take the box and like fold it all the way inside out and and put the stuff in it so that it it is that mailer and then, you know, give that use that to give it as a gift to somebody or something. Cute. I love that. Yeah, there's like that little bit about like no more lizards, Kevin. And I I think little lizards. Those little those little snippets of like here's where you can take the story, I think are very fun and it just shows a little bit of personality to the game, which I think is always always a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I love it. I love it so much. Yes. What is something you would like people to get out of playing the librarian's apprentice? ⁓ goodness. I mean, just just having fun exploring. there's it is to your point about it being more world building, th that was One of the things that has really especially early on drew me into or back into role playing games and especially designing them. Is that I have all these ideas and stories in my head. ⁓ but to actually write them out, what I always run into is that there are more ideas than I could put in the story. It's like I've got these really cool ideas. They are mutually exclusive. If I'm going to write this story, I need to decide which way this is going to go. And I don't want to. I don't want to give up one of those realities. But if I'm writing stuff for a role playing game. Then I can give those building blocks. ⁓ you know, if I've got really ideas or really fun ideas for for certain scenarios or or settings, I can drop those in. And then I've, you know, put a little bow on it and I'm handing it off. So all those realities can continue to exist. And so many more besides, you know, as as other people get them and and they make it their own, it just turns into all these different branches of of options. and that's so much more fun than. Than culling it down to just one path for me. so what I would like people to get out of it is really just their their own version of the library. where where they make make use of all these little building blocks and turn it into their own. ⁓ I love that. That's so fun. And I think you do such a good job of guiding people along enough, but like I said, kind of giving them free reign to go buck wild with it. And I think you did a good job. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. ⁓ It's so fun too because like some of the ⁓ prompts and some of the stuff on these tables come out of like almost nowhere for me. Like I had like a very kind of ⁓ we're in like a medieval setting. It's like a medieval fantasy setting. And then all of a sudden there is drag queen story hour. And I was like, Let's go. That's so fun. I'm gonna make medieval fantasy drag queen story hour. ⁓ awesome. It was great. ⁓ it was so great. ⁓ my character had a great time. It was awesome. ⁓ I love it. what were some of your main inspirations when creating The Librarian's Apprentice? Besides libraries. Besides libraries. Well, ⁓ I I've mentioned Kiki's delivery service and the Stygian library, and Terry Pratchett with the L Space and the Librarian. I mean, those were huge touchstones. But then it's like that's where I started. but some of it was also just trying to feel out as far as the setting was concerned. I wanted a place where sort of by default, again, inviting people to turn it into whatever they want, but sort of by default I was kind of aiming for For like slightly spooky Muppets. ⁓ one of the people who played through it referred to it as is kinda like it's got this Jim Henson feel, but it's like more like n not the Muppet Show, but more like Labyrinth. ⁓ stepping into dark crystal at times. Yeah. Where it's it's like it's this place that's that's cozy and can have all this cool stuff in it, but it's also got a little bit of a dangerous side to it ⁓ that you have to be a little careful of. ⁓ you have to you have to know how the library works enough to keep yourself safe sometimes. so so, you know, reaching out into some of those and and also kind of almost into ⁓ I think one of one of the touchstones I mentioned is Nausika. And I I was just thinking, you know, this idea of and and even Princess Mononoke a bit, where it's like it's this environment, there's there are things here you don't understand. And that can be a little dangerous or a lot dangerous if you want to go there. because it's just different different personalities of the library, different aspects of the library. so so yeah, I I started out one place and then it was like, well. How far do I want push this while still keeping family friendly? You know, it's not getting too out of hand as far as like the kind of setting I'm looking for. ⁓ goodness. So I would like to transition to Song of the Scriptworm now. Sure. ⁓ I really enjoyed Song of the Scriptworm, maybe more than Librarian's Apprentice, but that might have just been the story I was telling with it. And I was getting really deep in the weeds with drawing and creating a whole who-done it mystery, which was just so much fun. Excellent. Excellent. But ⁓ So for the people watching, how does the Librarian's Apprentice and the Song of the Scriptworm, how are they different? We did talk a little bit about like subject matter, but yeah, how do those two games kind of stand apart? Right. I and I think this also gets back to what we were mentioning ⁓ earlier about some solo games being very wide open in general. ⁓ so they're they're giving you a lot of A lot of space to just world build, for example, and some giving you a more curated experience. And scriptworm was for me stepping towards that more curated experience. A more a ⁓ a bit more nailed down as far as the story that's going on there. ⁓ and it actually came about when I was making Librarian's Apprentice, the the phrase song of the scriptworm popped into my head. Because you've got the scriptworm and Librarian's Apprentice. And there's a little bit of info there about what the scriptworm is, sort of. ⁓ just that it's kind of this this curator of information, maybe. but then really, like like several things in Librarians Apprentice, it doesn't tell you what it really is. I mean, that's that's left, you know, here here's a title or here's a here's a name. And then I'm just gonna let you decide what that means in your version of of the library. So Song of the Scripworm was where, among other things, I wanted to. I wanted to continue to play in the space of this library. But I also had this idea of the next game should really be a different experience. ⁓ it should be a different ⁓ rule set. It is a different game system. It it it's it's so that if someone wanted to kind of go through what might turn out to be a trilogy, there's there's these different experiences, these different games that you're getting introduced to. ⁓ each time. So so I really did want to make something different. ⁓ but I'm also was like, okay, I I want to make this game that doesn't step on the toes of the librarian's apprentice. So that it it's not it's not countering something that's already already there. And it's also again not nailing things down too hard. So that people can continue to flow through. When I originally had the idea of, well, maybe this is, you know, what is what is Song of the Scriptworm? What is this? ⁓ the first thought was that your your character was going to be an acolyte of the scriptworm. but it it it was kind of working. It was one it was it was kinda like that ⁓ that table example I mentioned, but in reverse. And you I'd be like, Yeah, yeah, that kind of works. You know, that that could be. And then I was like, Well, what if ⁓ what if you could play as the acolyte or as the apprentice? You could bring your apprentice over. And then it eventually just became nope, no, that's totally what you're doing. The acolyte is sorry. The acolyte gets a little line in the story somewhere, but ⁓ that's not your that's not your PC anymore. and and so Having that ⁓ that mystery style story was was inspired by the Hints and Hijinx system ⁓ from Pandyon Games. I had already been dabbling in that a few times, and I I really enjoyed how stuff came together so easily, building it for that system. But then, as I'm want to do, ⁓ I started mucking about with it and changing things. I I really enjoy having that starter though. It's like this is, you whether it's fire lights or or ⁓ Hintson Hijinks or like Badger and Coyote, you know, the these these systems. And it's like, well, I I like the idea of taking that and then how can I how can I revamp that a little bit to get the experience I'm looking for? ⁓ and so so yeah, it ultimately, ⁓ like I said, ⁓ Scripperm was a was about a year and a half at least in in its ⁓ evolution. but I And it I say that, it all it went through some major major revisions where I'd I'd actually written a good chunk of the book. And it was written much more, I guess, it's like starting out, well, what is an RPG? And then, you know, here's the various rules, and this is what you're gonna be doing. And then I that idea of it being this fairy tale-based story kind of popped up in my head. And I thought, well, what can can we just write it as a story? Like, can you just start with the story and then You kind of get the rules and the actions and building the character as you go rather than learning how to play first and then getting the story. Totally. And I really, really liked how that turned out. So yeah, you end up with this much more ⁓ I guess, nailed down experience in some ways. Well, in a lot of ways. You've you've got a beginning, you've got one of probably three endings, ⁓ and you have have more structure to what you're hunting down. and then of course in the middle of that was the the Oracle deck, which I when I had the idea of actually doing that, ⁓ it quickly derailed like the entire game creation as I just I just worked on I just was making these cards which were so much fun to make. ⁓ and and and then I was like, okay, I gotta get back to the how the out of the game work ⁓ and and bring these cards in because that was too fun. So it's it's a lot of different ideas bundled together and I was thrilled to discover that they ended up working well together. ⁓ you know stuff was was constantly being brought in and then stuff was being cut and removed and shifted around. ⁓ but I think the end result is something that ⁓ that does take you through that process of of this story, of this mystery pretty well. Yeah, I think so too. I think it does a good job of that, of creating, yeah, more of like a beginning, middle, and end and a full, complete, like very fairy tale inspired, like Who knows why, but you're the only one who can do this. Don't ask us. It's fairy tale rules, like I found that very fun. Yeah. And which I kind of carried that along throughout my game of like, ⁓ it's fairy tale rules. I don't make it up. That's just this is what's happening now. And that's a fun place to be. Yes. Such a fun place to be. Ex Yep. Yeah. At between between those cards and then and then just sticking on ⁓ the the little secret messages, the hidden message stuff. Yes. ⁓ I I'm I'm a huge fan of that kind of thing, ⁓ being stuffed in there. And ⁓ so I'm I'm hoping that there there are folks out there who who get into that ⁓ to some degree or another. Figure there's there definitely are there's enough stuff there if they're interested. yes. But if you're not, that's fine too. You know, you're not gonna you're not gonna miss out. I have every intention of figuring that out, and then I start playing the game and I quickly forget that that's a thing and I get so in the sauce of my own story. And I'm like, ⁓ well, okay, that's fine. Right, right. It's it's the intent is always that there are so many different ways that you can approach this, right? With especially with these solo games, the journaling games. ⁓ if you're having fun, you're playing it right. That's how I feel too. Absolutely. If you're having a good time, that then you're having a worthwhile experience playing this game. Exactly. You you tweak the rules however you need. You know, reskin it however you want to whatever world you want. and and just really engage with the parts of it that that give you a good time. Exactly. That's what we're here for. That's what we're here for. We're here to have a good time. Yep. Speaking of good time, one of my favorite things about Song of the Scriptworm is this deck situation and how it's so cool. I've never quite seen a method of generating prompts this way. Cause that's essentially at least how I used it, and you could correct me if I'm wrong. This is the way that I used it was I kind of used it to generate a prompt that would then I would write about. And absolutely. Yeah. I just thought the way of doing that was so cool because it's like you're not picking prompts from a list or rolling on tables like the librarian's apprentice. You're also using your creativity to kind of come up with this prompt with some guidance from the cards. And I thought that was so cool and so cleverly done. And it made the experience feel more mine, which was really cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping folks would get out of out of these cards. Plus just a getting back to that tactile experience piece of you've created this ritual and you're you know, it's your ritual for how you read the cards. And and I and one of my other hopes for it by having it be this restricted deck of of only eight. two ten cards, depending, is that there will be some repeated themes. So trying to, you know, help you a bit in how does this how does stuff come back around? You know, what what's what might have been an important theme before suddenly shows up again. and and so again, trying to give you some building blocks to make a more cohesive story, ⁓ if possible. Totally. And because it's a mystery too. That's always helpful to have things come back because it's like, I've been here before. What what is this telling me about the mystery as a whole? Like what did I miss the first time? Like totally. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh Love it. ⁓ well, in the similar vein, what do you hope people get out of playing Song of the Scriptworm? ⁓ goodness. I I hope, ⁓ besides the obvious fun, you know, have fun. ⁓ I hope they get a satisfying story. I was one of the things that I I was trying to find the right balance of was the endings. Because it has this it it has more to it in terms of success or failure. In Librarians Apprentice, you get tired, you call it a day, you'll try again tomorrow. And y you know, however you want to approach that, awesome. ⁓ in scriptworm, you know, there's there's a bit more of a you did it or you didn't do it ⁓ kind of situation. But I wanted to make sure that if the dice, if the dice didn't fall in your way, in your favor, that you still got this cool story out of it, no matter which way that ended up at the ending. You didn't get left thinking, well, that was cool right up until, you know, I had a bad time. ⁓ So I'm I am hoping that folks have that that satisfying resolution to their story, no matter what comes out of the dice. Totally. ⁓ I love it. Well, we've covered a lot of ground today, but is there anything that I missed that you would like to give a shout out to? ⁓ goodness. ⁓ I actually, ⁓ and I and I know you're already familiar with this, but ⁓ for folks who want to try out solo RPGs, or or for folks who who enjoy them and are just trying to find ways to consistently play them, ⁓ I highly recommend finding a solo T T RPG like book club. ⁓ I have I have been ⁓ fortunate enough to have stumbled across one when I didn't know they were a thing and then it was like, wait, that then somebody's mentioned it. And that was 'cause they had ⁓ I guess they'd played one of my games and they mentioned that that's where they found it. And then I'm like, that's awesome. Where do you meet? Can I come? 'Cause it was on it was an online, it was a virtual one. They're like, sure. So it was it was wonderfully inviting. I'm still I'm still hanging out with that group. ⁓ Every couple of weeks we have a game. ⁓ and it has been so, so cool. I have played games that honestly I never would have picked. You know, there's so many to choose from. And I, you know, I know that it's like, ⁓ this one over here, this is definitely my jam. I ⁓ you know, I'd go for those. But you know, it'll come up and it'll be something I'm like, well, I'll I'll try it, you know. You know, worst case scenario, I'll find out that it wasn't for me. And I have discovered. So many cool games that way. ⁓ that I I learned, you know what? I do like I do like that. and and so many fun ideas too, because that that game designer brain is always chugging along, right? And it's like, ⁓ yank. ⁓ those are fun. but between that and then also just sometimes ⁓ like there was we were playing a game the other Well, it's been a few weeks now, but one of the players just mentioned because we we kind of keep up this little bit of conversation about, ⁓ no, you know, this is happening, or yay, I did the thing, you know, or or what's this rule mean? but it came about that one of the players, their character wasn't gonna make it. ⁓ they were gonna get lost and on their way to this place. But another player was like, Well, I'm Totally gonna make it, but I keep showing up at this location where you're getting lost. So they decided that in you know the true solo thinks, well, maybe we're cousins, and so one of them, you know, successfully made the journey and then was headed back ⁓ to to find their cousin. And and so it was just this just so cool to have these stories suddenly start intertwining, even though you know we're all playing our own game. so there's just some really fun experiences that can come about. ⁓ plus It's it's a time blocked in my schedule. So I'm gonna get to play and and it's gonna happen. that that's been very helpful in just in terms of making sure I get some time. ⁓ totally to make it happen. Yes. ⁓ try those out if you're ⁓ if you're looking for for some way to get into them. One hundred percent agree. We have our own solo RPG book club that we've started doing once a month. ⁓ it's been the most fun thing ever. Like being able to do a solo activity as a group. is so surprisingly wholesome and fun. Like it's it's been great and having a community around this hobby that I love so much is so important to me and yeah highly recommend. We do have a solo RPG book club that you can join ⁓ virtually if you are interested. I will have that information in the description box below. But yes it is such a fun time. My last question for you Is there anything new in the works that you would like to shout out? ⁓ goodness. I I mentioned earlier a possible trilogy. I'm I'm working on a hack of two-hand path from Mikey Ham. that is I think it's going to be about the people the librarians turn to ⁓ when somebody refuses to bring something back. They checked it out. ⁓ or perhaps it got stolen. Something was removed from the library and it's not coming back of its own accord. This is this is who you talk to. And so you get to play, it's a solo game, you get to play as one of the inkbound, ⁓ who are the folks that go out and retrieve the things. So that's that's keep an eye out. ⁓ maybe, maybe next year ⁓ that one will be available. Hopefully. That's so so exciting. I Literally can't wait. I will be playing it as soon as I can because ⁓ I ⁓ yeah, I'm so excited. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. ⁓ this has been such a delight. ⁓ I really do enjoy your games. I'm excited to see what else comes out from this world. ⁓ and yeah, I just had a great time. Wonderful. Yeah, I had a good time too. And it's you it's always great to hear that somebody's enjoying the games and and has questions. You know, it's fun. Absolutely. Well ⁓ if you would like to check out any of Dan's games, I will have them all linked down below. ⁓ I will also have all of Almost Bedtime Theaters social links down below. So go share some love. And if you haven't watched it already, check out my playthrough of the librarian's apprentice. Let me know if you want me to play a song of the scriptworm, because I can do that too. And without ⁓ taking up too much more of all of y'all's time, thank you for hanging out with us today, and we'll see you next time. Thanks.