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Chellcy Reitsma | The Christian Reeve Podcast #163 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Christian re
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podcast. Today's guest is a singer and
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songwriter originally from the United States.
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Now, residing in Malta and name is Chelsea, right?
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Summer. Welcome to the show.
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How you doing? Good.
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Thank you. Thanks, for inviting me.
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It's a pleasure to have you on the show and yeah.
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Very, very fascinating life story that you've got.
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And I had like different kind of ways of jumping into this, but I
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wanted to kind of Of just get it really from your words and we
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kind of like follow the journey from there.
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So talk us through your musical Journey from beginning to
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present day. So obviously I know that you
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used to be a ballet dancer and that was what you were doing.
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So beforehand to talk us through sort of that career, the
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transition to music and then where you are today Okay.
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Alright, well I was a professional dancer.
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I did pretty much everything I started dancing when I was a
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small child and I've done everything from ballet.
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Tap Jazz Irish, salsa Bachata Flamingo, I did all of it at
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some point but the ethnic dances, like Egyptian dancing
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belly dancing, but not just belly dancing.
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Also the full Clark Styles, which a lot of people don't
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realize that there's a difference between the more like
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Cabaret style, which you wear like the two-piece and you show
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more skin and it's a completely different style than the
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folkloric dancing from all the different regions of Egypt.
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And yeah, and I did some Middle Eastern dances as well as like
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Gypsy Styles and also Latin Styles and I came up with my own
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future Asian style. Which was like the old style of
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Rumba from the 1930s and 40s mixed with Egyptian Cabaret
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style belly dancing. And also Samba the solo style.
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Samba, not the direct stuff. Yeah.
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And I called it's a Roomba rabbit made a teaching video and
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everything. So, yeah, that was like my life.
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I chew word all over Europe and North America.
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America. And I worked with a lot of
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musicians. I also took a lot of courses and
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I went to a lot of camps and stuff on Middle Eastern music,
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just to become a better dancer. Because when you are doing
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ethnic forms of dancing, you really need to understand the
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music different kinds of rhythms, go along with different
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songs which go with different costuming and different styles
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of dancing. Young and you have to know all
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of it which region that's from. So go to these music camps and I
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had a darbuka or Egyptians call it a table and yeah I tried to
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learn how to play an ever became professional.
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But I learned well enough that I could play for my students and I
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dance company and stuff. So that was my music training.
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Yeah. So I never really knew that I
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could sing your song grapes. At all.
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Actually, I just had the Middle Eastern music background and
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then I became injured and my dance career ended and my
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injuries are permanent. Yeah, this is this is something
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I wanted to explore very briefly.
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I don't want to dwell on like negatives but I do kind of find
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it. Interesting when, you know, you
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have like reinvention in life and how people approach that.
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So You have this injury and you spent many years at this point
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training, as you said, like you can creating your own Dance
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Fusion, that all sorts of stuff you traveled the world.
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So you've had a lot of great experiences.
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But then you get this moment where the main thing that you're
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doing in your life is now been halted.
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Now, you you're forced to do something different.
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So talk us through, kind of that process there, like how you kind
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of decided to then transition into music and just like, you
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know, how you kind of found. Evasion again to pursue a
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completely different path. Okay.
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It was, It was kind of it was a challenge because I was also am
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still a visual Artist as well. So I thought, okay, I'll just go
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back to my visual art background painting and drawing, but I was
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in so much pain. I couldn't even sit at the easel
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for very long. So it was easiest for me to just
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be like lying on the couch or in the bed for about the first year
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of injury. I was like what am I gonna do?
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You know, so I started writing poetry.
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And then and then I started having like these kind of melody
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lines and different things pop in my head like always, like
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I've always had that but I never pursued it.
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So I was like, well I'm going to try writing a song and I did, I
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wrote my first song is a collaboration with my mom while
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I was lying on the couch. And then as soon as I could kind
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of get around a bit with some crutches or in a wheelchair, I
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hobbled across the street too. To this dance studio.
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Who happened to have a vocal coach.
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So I took a few lessons with her.
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I was like can I sing or not? You know, I was so terrified
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honestly, because I'm a dancer and a visual artist.
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I express myself very quietly. You know there were no sound
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coming out really so to try to sing I was absolutely terrified
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Palms. Sweat.
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Voice quavering, I started crying.
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It was very dramatic but she told me, yes, you do.
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You do have a voice and you can sing but you need to calm down.
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So, that's where it all started, interesting.
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I mean, okay, this this will sound like a bit of a silly
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question but just bear with me for one minute.
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So, Obviously you pursued dancing and that was your
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passion. That was your life for a period
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of your life. Then you kind of were forced to
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then transition into something else and I don't believe that
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anyone really pursue something. In a state.
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They have a passion for. I mean, there are times in life
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when you're forced to do things, you don't want to do and that's
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just part of life. Got pay the bills, right?
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But at the same time you know you you had this opportunity to
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transition into music, you were feeling that this was right.
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How how does it compare to your previous career and also is it
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the same kind of level of passion?
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Is it different? Is it better like how does it
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compare and contrast? It's very different and I think
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the passion level is the same. But I have to say I enjoyed this
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just as much, if not more than dancing.
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And I actually regret not having always pursued music to be
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honest. And I even wish that I had done
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musicals or something because I could dance.
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So why didn't I ever think to dance and sing?
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Hello, like, it's not that big of a leap but I just was Was so
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timid and shy about singing. I guess.
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So. But yeah, I absolutely love it.
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Definitely Compares. Its Juno's is interesting to me
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because like yourself, I have a lot of different things that I'm
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into different, say Fields, within the creative sphere.
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I like to think of it, like a Creative Suite and to be fair, I
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think all humans have this, you know, if you're good at like,
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say this thing, then you're also going to be so probably good at
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these things connected to this thing.
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And you know, so for instance, And if you're a good singer,
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songwriter chances, are you probably be a good variety of
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good poet. May be a good singer, good
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artist. Even, you know, like it's and
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it's that Creative Flair. Isn't it?
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Because, you know, by contrast, like, just for myself, I'm
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terrible at like, more logic-based, things things like
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Maps, things like science. I'm useless.
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I find it interesting, but I'm just useless like that in my
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brain. Just doesn't really Click that
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way so I can do it but it's just very slow.
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When it comes to the creative process.
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It almost feels effortless that the work has to be put in, but
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it comes naturally. And to me, it's like, no
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surprise that performance such as yourself.
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You know, find that transition may be easier than others would
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in the same position and that's kind of another area.
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I'd like to explore a little bit like How is the creative process
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different for you in terms of like how you would have set up
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dances in routines and stuff like that?
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Compared to setting up a show as a musician or performing, or
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writing a song? Like, how does that differ from
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your perspective? Hmm.
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Honestly I don't really feel a big difference.
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I always thought whether I was a dancer or a singer songwriter
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when I'm setting up for show. I always think of like the whole
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package like what the viewer is going to experience.
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So costuming make up any projections lighting.
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I mean if I'm on a stage where all of that is possible and not
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in some like Smokey, seedy bar When there's actually a stage
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and possibility for that is a singer-songwriter or as a dancer
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then I I guess I just try to think of the whole package, no
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matter what I'm doing, this is interesting as well because
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performance of Jesus. So if we such a extensive
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dancing background, I mean I imagine you must spend a lot of
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time working on that stage presence like planning that out.
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I mean, obviously for yourself, you won't be able to necessarily
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dance to the level that you might want to.
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Ooh, I don't know what your limitations are in.
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That was trippy certainly you must be working a lot of
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choreography of anymore. If you do have dances on the
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stage or whatever that are you putting a lot of time into I
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suppose the performance side of things as far as like building a
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stage through I definitely there's definitely a comparison.
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I'm always thinking about how I'm going to use the whole stage
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as I don't like it. When an artist has this, massive
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gorgeous stage unless they have a spotlight.
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Exactly let's have a spotlight and it's like a monologue or
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it's like a piece that demands that but if it's not, if it's
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like a music performance and you just need to take over the whole
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effing. Space and like be there, you
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know what I mean? Like really put some energy into
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it. So I always think about how I'm
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going to use the space that I have and that includes our
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everything, the lighting where I placed the musicians, what I
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personally do like the pattern, I walk onstage.
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You know, all of these things would you say would with a, like
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the biggest lessons that you learn during your time?
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As a professional dancer. I guess last night.
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Well, I guess. Number One, never date.
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Anyone from the band or sleep with them ever big.
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No, no, don't do it. I just as well.
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Okay. Don't you know what, where you
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need to get your money from, okay?
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That's a real lesson number one. I'd also go explore this a
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little bit. Like, I mean, I mean, it's not
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it's not Dewey regular for someone to date someone that
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they're performing with. I mean it makes sense close
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proximity its creative, its passionate, it's understandable,
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but did you not have like a moment where and again, it's
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going to sound like a silly question because I know that if
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I was in a similar situation It's it.
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A lot of the time it's a toss-up between emotions versus, you
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know, being sensible, right in terms of business, you know?
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Did you kind of think maybe this is a bad idea or you just like
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let's see what happens. Honestly, I never actually
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allowed myself to go. There is like I never actually
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acted on any of the feelings I had for anyone that I was
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performing with that's so cool. Oh I misunderstood what you're
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asking? Okay.
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Oh I see. No, this is so it's not
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something you personally that whether it's something you've
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seen happened and then you're like, it's led to this.
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But it's been about expect, is that what you mean then?
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Yes. And I I've personally seen it
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happen to others but then I also was put in that position on
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numerous occasions but I never gave in because I knew it was
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going to be a bad situation in the long run so sure.
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Yeah yeah yeah. No no I think I mean there's so
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many bands where that stuff that's happened and it causes
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properly I mean I think Heart wants what the heart wants but
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the same time, if it's business, you know, when you really think
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about it. Like it's art its artistic and
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it's going to be passion and everything involved.
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But I mean, I know that if I was in that position and I form a
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relationship with someone in my band, it would because if the
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relationship ends, I mean we've seen it some bands, make it work
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like Abba sort of made it work, but that was kind of the
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Catalyst for The end for them really.
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It was arguably an amid some of their best work at that point,
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but I mean, I didn't realize that you see like, is it the
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winner takes it all and that video, where they purposely made
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it to kind of reflect on this is awkward and it's Fleetwood Mac.
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Same thing, I mean, I was even I think Stevie yes, I think Stevie
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just used to write songs about how much Ex-husband sucked and
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then got him to pay them. I think it's kind of Revenge of
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all time. Look, Sonny and Cher to my god.
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Oh gosh. And it's not.
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I mean, it's one of those things as a nurse but even if like, if,
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if you're still in a relationship and everything is
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fine romantically but professionally or whatever
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you're like I'm not happy with your playing and I I don't want
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you in my band anymore, it's kinda awkward.
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If you're sleeping with them, you know.
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It's like I don't know. It's makes it more difficult to
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be professional and be like hey you're out of here.
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If you have this like a personal relationship with them.
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Absolutely. I think in general as well not
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just in music but in in life it's a ghost pretty good rule to
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just not, get romantically involved with people, you doing
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business with or working with because it creates a power
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Dynamic. I mean, you gave that example
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that in about. So let's say Okay, it's equal
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footing, everyone's equal but you agree that the person you
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love, they're just not pulling their weight and maybe that's
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right, maybe it isn't. But if that decision is then
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made, I'm all that's going to be that the end of the relationship
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shortly because I don't yeah, but it's two conflicting then
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and of course It would, I think it would take a really strong
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person like strength of character to be able to overcome
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that and still either pursue the relationship or or, you know,
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for example, that break up with someone and continuing the band,
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it happens. But yeah, I just think it's an
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unnecessary power Dynamic thing. And it's, especially bad.
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When you think about it in, in workplaces, when the, the
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classic someone sleeps with their boss, you know, dynamic,
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which I think a lot of the time is cause for Getting you can
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get, you know, released for the doing things that is that
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considered unprofessional conduct but yeah, like more to
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the point. It's just once you do that,
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they've then got that power over you so to speak and it's like, I
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don't know, that's a very dangerous area to be in
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business, just sorry, it just makes everything so awkward and
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Yeah, even if nothing actually happens but they just start
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flirting with you or ask you out on a date and you say no it
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still makes it awkward like you just shouldn't go there, right?
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Because any says that. Ah, okay exactly.
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So see if I'm practice next week.
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Like yeah, thanks for thinking of me.
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It's terrible. It's just it puts it, just puts
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everyone in an awkward position and I think it Big, big No-No.
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So. That we lost this one more
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question on this, like the, as far as that, that because that
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was the biggest lesson that you saw of other people.
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Were there any particular instances that you saw that,
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that where it was like, it led to, I don't know, like, any
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examples you could give it that like where it broke down and it
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was the problem. I'm a dance lover.
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I actually saw somebody who got in a serious relationship with
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her. My, and they broke up and she
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needed to break up with him. He was like an abusive asshole
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in their relationship, basically.
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So she broke up with him and then she couldn't get any work
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at any of the nightclubs in Chicago.
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She was completely ostracized and even out of States, like it,
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if it was anyone that was friends with him, would not work
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with her on any level. The super patience was so much
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work for it. Yeah, it really hurt her career
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a lot. So and I can only imagine that
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that could also happen in the music scene, you know, like, at
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least the music scene is much larger than Middle Eastern
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dance. Scene is much smaller than the
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music scene. So, I guess you're a little
19:09
safer there, but also depends on where you live and your niche of
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music. So, It cut it kind of brings us
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to a wider point about how it's just good to Foster positive
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working relationships with people in the industry that
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you're bringing in. I mean, yeah, something like
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that. Can cause problems as far as
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finding web but even just being, for example, difficult to work
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with or having a bad reputation, can just immediately prevent you
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from getting work and it's very serious when your when your life
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livelihood is at stake, and that's happening.
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It's great. Great advice.
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And professional. Yeah I mean it's like I was I
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was on the set the other day like I share a story for
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everyone. This was awkward so I'm doing
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going to shoot and someone comes up to me and they say oh you see
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that other person that you've been talking to and I was like,
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yeah, looks like they used to bully me.
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X Y Zed place. I always just like because I've
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only just met everybody, like, I'm new here, like barely
20:19
spoken, base spoken to this person and this but other
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person's telling me this, and I was thinking in my head, I was
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like, oh, and I said, oh, I'm sorry to hear that and then they
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were, there's two things that tickled me that really made me
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laugh. Firstly was just them telling me
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that in general, it's not. Well, what am I supposed to do
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with this information? Like, I mean, I'm sorry that
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that's happened to you, that's That's bad.
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You know, but what am I supposed to do about that?
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Like, I'm, I do you expect me to just like, whole, okay, it's us
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against them. Yeah, it's yeah.
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You know, like, I don't know that I'm not gonna do that.
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We're professionals, you know, and then they said, which was
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really funny. They were like, oh, you can be
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friends with them if you want. I'm just letting you know.
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And I think maybe their intentions are in the right
21:12
place. But then other things, maybe
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feel uncomfortable, even further.
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So they said that and then well go ahead.
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Other times, for instance, between takes, I'd be talking to
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other people that I know from other films and stuff and we're
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just talking, but we're talking a bit quieter, you know, maybe,
21:35
maybe secret, maybe it's not. Maybe I just One of broadcast,
21:38
its everyone. But, you know, and this person
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would come over and sort of do that when we do can about what
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do we, whatever, you know, like, like night.
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That sort of person that is like, they have to know
21:52
everything and they have to get involved.
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And I don't want to be mean but you know what I'm on about.
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They were people that want to know the secrets but not
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probably from the various reasons not for like, oh because
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I'm a great Secret Keeper and I'm you can totally trust me.
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Now, it's more like, tell me so that I know so that I can spread
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Wildfire, I don't know, just our people so to anyway.
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Bring it back to yourself, music.
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How long? How long have you been have?
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You been doing this so far in music professionally?
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I took my first lesson, I think in 2015.
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Okay, right. Yeah, more around.
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There could have been 2014, I don't know.
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But I recorded my first song and released it in 2016, sweet.
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So with that, Time so far. What have you what would you say
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are the biggest lessons or takeaways you've had during that
23:01
time? I guess it's just to persevere.
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The I've learned a couple of important lessons.
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Honestly, one is even if you're scared of it, just go ahead and
23:15
do it. And the second one is don't
23:23
don't push or expect Perfection like just do it.
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The best you can at the stage where you are like at that
23:31
moment and then learn from it and do even better the next time
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and even better even better. Every project and then
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eventually, you know you'll be amazing but never never think
23:46
that you don't have more to learn.
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No matter how good you get you know, because there's always the
23:52
next step, the next level you can get even better, you can
23:56
always nitpick yourself to death, you know?
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But then if you expect too much in Perfection and you nitpick
24:03
yourself and your projects too much, you won't ever actually
24:06
release anything. So kind of just go for it.
24:11
Thank you for sharing. And what would you say?
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And this is took connected a little bit to the previous
24:16
question. But what would you say for all
24:19
of your careers would be the biggest obstacles you faced and
24:23
then, how did you then overcome them and sort of persevering
24:27
move forward? You sound really weird because
24:35
I'm white, but I've actually faced a lot of discrimination.
24:41
Okay. Especially when I was in the
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Middle Eastern dancing but also not as much in music.
24:48
But a little bit like, as a Tall Blond, American woman, I faced
24:59
discrimination in a lot of different ways, either.
25:01
Because I'm a Arcane or because I'm a woman or because I'm
25:05
blond, you know, and people think if you're blonder, you've
25:07
got big boobs that you're a total dipstick and you know what
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I'm saying? Like they are unintelligent.
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So I just I don't think, I don't think I've ever heard an
25:20
American used the term dipstick before I thought I was just a
25:22
British exclusive time. That's amazing.
25:34
So, yeah, that's been difficult to overcome when when you walked
25:39
into a room and people automatically think that you're
25:41
going to be snobby and dumb, it's definitely something
25:47
difficult to overcome and enough.
25:49
The one is that people automatically assume that I'm
25:51
going to be racist, do not because your honor tonight.
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I don't know either because I'm Dutch American and there are
26:02
some races Dutch people. The American ones, especially
26:05
not not as much the ones from Holland, but there are some
26:10
races that's people. Of course, there are but I don't
26:14
know. Maybe because I'm white tall
26:16
blondes. I'm not sure or maybe because I
26:19
am American because racism is rampant in America honestly.
26:24
But yeah. So I always feel Feel like I
26:27
have to overcome that, like, right away, like be friendly.
26:31
Be professional be well-spoken. So that hopefully, if they had
26:37
that in their head, I changed their minds very quickly.
26:42
It is interesting in these industries that the
26:44
entertainment industry. How much discrimination there is
26:48
no matter who you are, you will encounter some form of
26:51
discrimination. I mean, even myself.
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Like I've I've never had like any outward obvious
26:57
discrimination but there's been little things as far as like how
27:00
people treat you according to how they perceive you, you know,
27:05
because my mindset is always treat everyone with respect, you
27:08
know, no matter who they are, just treat everyone with respect
27:10
and And present yourself professionally as you say
27:13
sometimes people just they see you.
27:15
They get an idea of you and then they put you in a box and that's
27:19
it. You're in that box.
27:20
Now you can't move out of that box, that's you.
27:22
And it's like Kind of audacious like how dare you you do that?
27:26
Like what gives you the right to do that and it's rampant in the
27:31
entertainment industry. And I mean I think we're slowly
27:35
getting there. As far as there is a lot more
27:40
diversity now in the entertainment industry, but at
27:43
the same time, you still see it in certain things.
27:46
You still see it. I mean for instance a few
27:48
Productions I've been on recently even some of the
27:52
production staff that have worked on they get a client send
27:55
something through and sometimes it will be Like in being in a
28:01
time capsule with a brief, you look at the brief and it has
28:03
something that's like, well, maybe this was acceptable like
28:06
30 40 years ago. But this is very questionable by
28:08
today's standards and it's a lot in terms of people's attitudes
28:12
or the things that they write or how they want something for
28:15
trade. You know what I mean?
28:16
It's it's interesting because you know you got all these
28:20
Progressive people coming through trying to do something.
28:23
Brilliant trying to include everyone and you still got these
28:25
other people that have these kind of archaic back with the
28:29
idea. and it's like a big clash and it's yeah that actually
28:37
brings me to imposter syndrome. That's another thing that I've
28:40
worked really hard to overcome because in the Middle Eastern
28:45
and North African dancing. Obviously I always felt like an
28:49
imposter and I'm I was like am I appropriating?
28:52
You know, my is this cultural appropriation?
28:54
Should I even be doing this as a career?
28:57
I always felt awkward, but I really loved it.
29:00
And so I just worked really hard at trying To respect their
29:04
cultures and to learn from them. And take what I learn and make
29:10
it my own, rather than trying to be like one of them.
29:15
I still maintained my own name. Chelsea.
29:18
I never changed it to any of those weird belly.
29:22
Dancer means that you hear that. Sorry, I've got an issue about
29:26
that. So I never changed my name.
29:31
I just presented myself. As myself all the time, wherever
29:35
I went because I didn't want to appropriate anyone's culture,
29:40
but I wanted to partake in it. So I always felt like an
29:45
imposter and then I moved on the music and they still felt like
29:50
an imposter because I don't have any professional music training,
29:55
other than some Middle Eastern dance camps, you know, like I
29:59
was like, what am I doing? So it was always like a struggle
30:04
to get over the Imposter syndrome.
30:10
Plus, it's great to hear, I'm glad glad to hear that.
30:12
What kind of advice could you give people to overcome imposter
30:17
syndrome? I guess just learn as much as
30:20
you can about whatever industry you're trying to break into so
30:25
that you, you mentally yourself like psychologically.
30:30
You don't feel like an imposter anymore.
30:32
You feel like, I actually know, at least a little something, you
30:35
know. Yeah.
30:37
And and don't don't come in, I'll Like a big know-it-all or
30:44
defensive, you know, like be open to criticism, because
30:48
that's how you learn and be open to learning new things because
30:54
it's all new to you anyways. So just be humble and take it in
31:00
and you know, if somebody gives you criticism that's not helpful
31:04
just you know, brush it off and when you do get some tidbits of
31:10
like wisdom from people, And really hold onto those gold
31:15
nuggets. You know.
31:17
Yes. An interesting one with that
31:18
because a great advice by. Thank you so much for sharing,
31:22
really appreciate it. Yeah, the advice thing I've
31:25
learned, it's interesting like some a few people are quite open
31:30
and we'll share good. Genuinely getting you.
31:32
No advice. But a lot of the time People,
31:36
it's like, you know, you're on your own kid kind of attitude
31:40
and then what every once in a while someone will just turn
31:43
around to you and be real with you, you know, for it that you
31:48
you let you know that, you know what I mean.
31:49
That when you just sit in their needs and you ask someone for
31:51
advice and that maybe they're not even the sort of person that
31:53
would normally give advice. But then there are, I'll give
31:56
you some advice. And then they just tell you
31:58
something real and you just sit there like Wow.
32:02
Okay. And it's and, and it goes back
32:05
to what you were saying is, is good to, to be open to receiving
32:09
that, you know, not being stubborn, taking it on board
32:12
and, and sitting with it. I often tend to do that.
32:15
Whoever gives me advice, I'll sit on on the things they tell
32:18
me. And sometimes a lot of the time
32:20
I find that I won't always act on advice straight away.
32:24
Sometimes I sit with it and then I'll act on it bit later, but I
32:29
won't disregard it. That's in less than I learned
32:31
years ago because it's very easy to think you know or to feel
32:36
very self-assured and we never know it.
32:39
All we're always growing up, we were always moving forward and
32:44
the more open our hearts and minds and ears are, the more we
32:48
can develop and grow, I can put I'd like to bring it back to To
32:57
just, just you for S, not so much a career, but just you as a
33:00
person, and your upbringing, so you're born, you grew up in
33:05
California, and you've lived in Florence, Italy, Stockholm,
33:11
Sweden. And now you're in Malta.
33:15
It took is a took us for a little bit about your upbringing
33:19
and just living in these different countries.
33:22
What you've kind of learnt from that and then why that why they
33:26
took the decision to sort of eventually settle in Malta Well,
33:34
I grew up in California, in Visalia, between Fresno and
33:37
Bakersfield in the Central Valley.
33:40
And I'm telling you, I love my hometown and I love the people
33:44
there, but that's like the armpit of California or the
33:47
Bible, Belt, whatever you want to call it.
33:50
Okay? That's yeah.
33:51
It's like small town and it's very stifling in so many ways.
33:57
And yeah, and so obviously that Made me want to leave as soon as
34:02
possible. You know, small-town girl wants
34:05
out, right? So typical story, right?
34:11
So true, right. Every movie ever sorely is a
34:17
good thing. I'm not gonna make it
34:31
So I studied Visual Arts and Italian culture and art history
34:36
and stuff like that and that was like for like a program.
34:40
So I was only there for a little over six months and then I came
34:43
back to California and I moved to another small town, Eureka
34:49
California, and I went to Humboldt State University.
34:54
So that's like, so it's like 5 hours North of San Francisco.
34:59
I moved there for the beauty. It's like The redwood forest and
35:04
it's on the beach. It's absolutely gorgeous place.
35:07
So, but again, it's a small town, but at least it's
35:10
different because it was had like a university mentality,
35:13
which is a lot better than by Celia's mentality.
35:18
Yeah. And then I ended up moving to
35:20
Chicago, to go to the school of the Art Institute of Chicago and
35:26
I studied visual art and art history there as well again.
35:31
And I graduated and I was making so much money dancing and
35:34
teaching. I was like I'm going to ride
35:36
this way for a while and so I started touring with bands and
35:42
with dance companies open my own Dance Company.
35:46
I lived in Toronto Canada for a little while and I studied with
35:51
Mentor there for dancing, has me to Ramsey.
35:54
She's like the end all be a doll of in Canada for Egyptian
35:59
dancing. And CoQ10 Yeah and then I lived
36:03
in Stockholm for a while. I work there for 12 years off
36:06
and on like every year I work there for a Dance convention and
36:11
so I even SLI just kind of moved there and stayed again for like
36:18
a short amount of time. It was like How long was about
36:22
six to eight months? I stayed there and yeah kept
36:27
traveling and touring and living in Chicago.
36:30
And eventually in 2005, I took a tour group to Malta, it was
36:37
mostly my students, and I performed there and taught some
36:41
workshops and stuff and the owner of the dance studio.
36:43
And I just came like instant brother and sister it was, he's
36:49
like my long lost brother. So he can bring me back every
36:54
year a couple times a year sometimes and I would stay
36:57
longer and longer and eventually I just said I'm going to move
37:01
hair and I bought my place in 2009 and I started very slow and
37:06
tedious immigration process because I'm the third party
37:09
National. It was a nightmare.
37:12
I just got my citizenship finally like two years ago.
37:16
Congratulations. Thank you.
37:18
I get to pick up my passport this week actually.
37:23
Very excited about that. So yeah, that's like my story of
37:28
moving around. I did it all for arts and dance
37:32
and culture and stuff. Basically, that's what drives
37:36
me. So go cook a couple of questions
37:39
related to this and I've also lived abroad and I think the
37:47
thing that it taught me and it's in Venice, I only lived in one
37:50
other country, I've traveled a lot but there was one country.
37:52
I lived in for like three years and in the sort of middle of the
37:57
second year or beginning of the second year, I started to get
38:00
homesick. I wasn't 100% wasn't 100%
38:03
obvious because I was still kind of presenting the UK, I love the
38:07
UK, now it's just different times different things,
38:10
different point in my life, but the point is I felt a bit
38:13
homesick and eventually I recognize whole wow.
38:15
Wow, it's homesickness. Okay, that's interesting.
38:19
And eventually I came back and I think, what I realized for
38:23
myself is that, you know, I love to travel and I love to live
38:29
away, but like not indefinitely Or for too long I like to kind
38:33
of have the option of coming back and that that's but that's
38:36
just for me, what I'm interested by is.
38:40
You've traveled around the world, you've lived in different
38:43
places and it makes perfect sense.
38:45
Given that, you know, as you say you grew up in a small town, you
38:48
wanted to break out because it's almost suffocating.
38:51
And I totally get that my mom used to say to me, when I was a
38:54
kid, I had a chiefy. So as she explained it and I
38:59
didn't really appreciate what that meant until I got old.
39:02
I was older. But basically you know you're
39:05
going to travel the world that's kind of like the vibe that.
39:07
Well yeah. And and she's right.
39:09
She's 100% right. Can't sit still for five minutes
39:14
but you know, some people got the bug, some people haven't,
39:18
some people were perfectly content, you know, there's
39:21
people I know who never moved out of our hometown and they're,
39:23
as happy as Larry and I don't get it.
39:26
But I do kind of understand that we are all different and we all
39:30
have different things in life that drive us.
39:32
And sometimes the drive is security of some description, or
39:36
kind of routine or, you know, whatever the case may be.
39:41
But I suppose there's the two things that I want to know.
39:43
Is a, did you ever get kind of like travel fatigue in the sense
39:49
that you're traveling so much? That was there a point where you
39:51
were, like, okay I want to just be in one place and sell and to
39:58
ultimately cannot what prompted I understand like you broke it
40:01
down as far as like how you eventually got to move into
40:05
motor but That's a big decision to, you know, go, okay, I'm done
40:10
with America. Like I'm going to make this my
40:12
home now. Like do you never feel homesick
40:16
or is it just like that was? Then this is now like talk us
40:20
through a little bit that as well.
40:23
Well, I I guess I did have homesickness here and there but
40:31
it's more for the people and sometimes for Certain cultural
40:38
things like I I love the live music scene that the United
40:45
States has to offer. It's very prolific, you know,
40:47
compared to some countries and I love the variety of music and
40:53
the variety of cultures. It's amazing.
40:55
You don't always have that everywhere, you know, right, or
40:59
you do but smaller, you know, so I missed that sometimes and I
41:06
miss like, certainly Landscapes, especially living in Malta.
41:09
Sometimes I miss Greenery because it's like a desert
41:12
island. Yeah.
41:17
So I guess I missed certain cultural and geographical things
41:24
and I feel like I really wanted to live abroad because there's
41:34
certain things about the United States but I'm Not happy with
41:38
and I can't change them. And there are such huge things
41:43
that I felt that my the quality of my life improved by leaving
41:47
the United States. As an artist, I had in some ways
41:55
more work in the United States but the cost of living was so
42:01
expensive. That even if I was making fifty
42:06
sixty, Thousand a year just off of my dancing.
42:10
At the time I was barely making. It barely I still had to ask my
42:16
parents for help sometimes because it was so expensive to
42:20
live in Chicago it was just it was just ridiculous.
42:25
So I feel like now living a broad like, Even if I make less
42:32
money, I still have a higher quality of life and there's just
42:36
certain things here that are more relaxed, you know.
42:39
Like there's 24, I think it's 24, 24 days of vacation, leave
42:46
by law, you know, and then the United States as like unheard of
42:51
people. Like what?
42:54
Yes, because they do you have things like bank holidays, in
42:56
the state so don't think I've ever heard of that in the States
42:59
before. It's nothing.
43:00
Uh, is that we really have a bank holiday?
43:03
We just have like Memorial Day, right?
43:06
Yeah. So, they're all like a national
43:08
holiday. Yeah, of course, there's a
43:09
curfew. Yeah, I handful of very small.
43:13
Handful of national holidays that people actually take time
43:16
off for you guys even on Christmas.
43:20
You'll find everything open pretty much like what?
43:25
Yeah, they might have shortened hours but, you know, your
43:28
Starbucks Barista will still be there.
43:30
Making coffee on Christmas Day morning.
43:34
Yes that's that's yeah yeah I mean in the UK okay, let me see.
43:43
Generally on Christmas Day in the UK, everything will be shot.
43:46
You'll get maybe a few Corner shops, be open because they
43:50
operate on a different license. But even like you can't like for
43:54
instance, you can't get a cab on Christmas day or you have to
43:58
happen yet the pre-book if you want to, but it's not.
44:00
Happening. You know, this is interesting to
44:03
me like, what, but who's going to Starbucks and Christmas?
44:07
That I don't know, man, maybe that's just me.
44:09
I let some things just don't need to be open certain days or
44:13
like, they don't need to be open all the time, you know?
44:16
Like, I don't know. I agree with you and some of
44:22
that stuff. The fact that there's like, no
44:25
Public Health Care really? Yeah, have to have insurance.
44:29
I mean, it's just so expensive. If especially as an artist, no
44:32
matter how successful you are just really expensive to live
44:36
there. And yeah, so I really benefit
44:39
from living in Malta as an artist in in a lot of ways and I
44:43
don't have the pressure to make 100K, I can make less and and
44:48
live a comfortable lifestyle here and still go on vacation
44:52
somewhere and I couldn't do that in the stage.
44:55
It's interesting is next you grow up and you get taught the
44:58
make as much money as possible. And you know, you want to get as
45:01
far as you can. And, you know, it's like the
45:04
earlier, you can retire the better and everything and it's
45:06
like you get sold a lie, really? When you really think about it
45:12
because the things that I'm chasing like I was on set the
45:17
other day and someone asked me like, you know, like you want to
45:22
be rich famous or that and I was I mean they didn't phrase it in
45:25
that way. It was kind of like what where
45:26
are your priorities that what are you looking to do?
45:29
And I was like, I just want to do this for a living.
45:31
You know, I don't especially care about learning, like
45:36
Millions, you know. Sure, that'd be great.
45:38
I'm not saying if someone wants to give me Millions, I'll take.
45:43
But, like, didn't do not know me like when I look at it more,
45:45
like, I'd like to have the freedom to do what I love or,
45:51
you know, I just, I just don't want to work like 925 anymore
45:54
shift work anymore. Like I try to keep the goals
45:57
like simple and just like base it around.
46:00
And instead of things that we're taught at school or things were
46:04
taught in society, I look at it more, like, you know what, let's
46:06
look at, you know, what do you want?
46:08
Because everyone's different, what I want is just the
46:12
flexibility to do the things I love for a living, and then, as
46:17
you say, like sometimes it doesn't, it doesn't matter.
46:19
If you're in loads of money to do that, like sometimes people,
46:22
I meet that think differently that they'll say like or you
46:26
know, well this job I hate this job but you know, I'll get Money
46:31
for it. I'm okay.
46:33
So basically your plan is assuming it's a nine-to-five.
46:38
For example, to work nine to five in a job.
46:41
You hate probably hours pass that as well as most jobs will
46:45
require that to then live for the weekend, I guess.
46:51
I mean I don't get it. Like I remember once I had a job
46:56
interview and the place was like really Posh and expensive and I
47:01
was young as 18 19 but I've been studying business for years at
47:05
that point and I saw right through it.
47:07
You know, it's like okay great you got nice off this fine but I
47:10
was paying attention to like what people were saying and how
47:13
they were and there was a woman escorting me around and she
47:17
said, It will always stick with me.
47:22
She said, oh, it's a race to the weekend here haha.
47:27
And then she's like, you know, just a little bit in, she tried
47:30
to make it seem like, you know, like oh, it's great working
47:33
here, but what I heard was please God save me, I hate this,
47:37
don't join us. Don't like, you know, but you
47:40
know, and like it kind of just dawned on me that the things
47:45
that we want in life, they're not as unobtainable.
47:49
As they might seem. You know, as long as we have
47:52
like a, We're Not Afraid, you know, and don't get me wrong,
47:56
you know, nothing's guaranteed. Yeah.
47:58
Right now I'm in a period of my life where I'm actively pursuing
48:01
the things that I want in life and it's a gamble.
48:04
I've had people turn around to me and tell me I'm an idiot for
48:06
what I'm doing. You know, will you should be
48:08
just pursuing you know what you wanted to do a uni and you know,
48:13
you're not earning a lot of money like isn't this a risk?
48:15
And it's like, yeah, but like isn't it better to take a risk
48:18
on stuff that makes you happy then to see?
48:21
In do things that you hate and then Wonder like how I wish I'd
48:26
tried or what if you know I mean I didn't ask worse.
48:30
I think it's better to know that you tried and it was a no rather
48:34
than oh I never tried. And who knows?
48:37
Maybe I you know, I could have got someone with this like.
48:41
Yeah, exactly. And also just ask what if on
48:44
your deathbed then just go ahead and do it, right?
48:46
And also like other people's perceptions of what successes as
48:50
well. You know, I mean, let's someone
48:52
said this to me in the livestream that I did recently
48:55
and it got me thinking that, you know, because I said, oh, I'm
48:58
not a success yet and they were like, yes, you are.
49:01
And as always, you mean and they were kind of employment.
49:03
The fact that I was doing what I like, You know it's just by my
49:08
own standards I suppose or expectations.
49:11
I deemed myself as not being successful but success is
49:14
relative you know you break it down to like are you happy?
49:18
Are you enjoying what you do? Do you like life?
49:21
that is a success, you know, I think like, Sometimes we got
49:27
trying to break it down and just be at that point where we're
49:30
happy and you know, we're in thats place where we want to be
49:34
and you know which thrown it back to yourself lie. would you
49:39
say that you're happy and and in a Place that you want to be in
49:44
life and with everything that you've done so far.
49:51
Well, I'm happy with everything I've done so far.
49:54
Yes, I think there's always things that you say, oh, I wish
49:58
I had done it differently later, you know.
50:00
Like I wish I would have pursued music instead of dancing but you
50:05
can't know these things. If I'm basically happy with what
50:09
I've done in life and up to this point lately, I've been kind of
50:15
covid. Set me back slightly, you know.
50:20
I was, I felt like I was really getting somewhere with my music.
50:24
I was making a living from my music, everything was going,
50:28
great. And then covid happens and kind
50:31
of put a wet blanket on my plans and on everything.
50:34
And I was very much able to keep it going to a point even though
50:41
tours were canceled things like that happen, but Every summer.
50:46
I was able to snap back and have shows and have things like
50:51
really going. Well, and then this this time I
50:55
haven't been able to snap back quite as much as I did the last
50:59
two years and so I took a job, I'm still a freelancer
51:03
technically, so I'm still self-employed, but I did take
51:08
more of a full-time freelance position in my, doing my other
51:14
thing that Do, which is the production management of
51:17
cultural and artistic events. So, at least it's still in the
51:22
arts and culture sector, which is my passion.
51:27
So yeah, I'm going to do this until I can get back on my feet
51:30
with music and fulfill my contract and then hopefully, you
51:36
know, be touring again. I totally get where you're
51:40
coming from, like I can really relate to this because there's
51:43
been a lot of roles. I've taken on especially more
51:46
recent years but it's the same thing, it's like, oh okay.
51:50
I do this because it brings in the money but what I really want
51:53
to be doing is this but but you know, a good thing to know and I
51:58
think to keep in mind for yourself and everyone listening
52:00
as well is that you're not alone, there is a lot of people.
52:04
There are a lot of people in exactly the same position as us
52:08
that is trying every single day, you know, like I mean, just a
52:11
bit into effective in my life, right?
52:14
Uploading videos online every single day, live streaming, most
52:19
days putting out weekly podcast. I've just jumped onto someone
52:22
else's podcast as well. I'm doing weekly now as well.
52:26
And now, music, apply for acting gigs playing for anything.
52:30
You know, and every week is, yeah, similar feeling.
52:36
Sometimes you feel like you're Making some progress.
52:40
It's getting exciting. And then there's other weeks
52:42
that just feel like stagnation. Like, you feel like take five
52:44
steps backwards, you know. And it's like, It's all about
52:49
the journey, really isn't it? And just as you put it earlier,
52:52
perseverant pushing forward, keep going, keep going.
52:54
Like I think we will eventually get where we want to get to.
52:58
But it's just about hanging in there and, you know, like for
53:05
instance, what I've been doing on tip talking in the past year,
53:08
I've seen so many people start from just doing something, you
53:12
know, every once in a while and then boom off to the moon and
53:18
and they're chasing their dreams that I'll give you a really cool
53:20
example. There was a girl, who was
53:24
working at a supermarket here in the UK called test.
53:29
And she's just like dancing and just mucking around and her
53:32
dream was to be, in theater to dance, be in theater and all
53:38
that stuff. And you know, she was uploading
53:42
all the time and she got like lots of backlash, lots of
53:45
criticism, people being mean and all that horrible stuff, but she
53:48
just kept doing it. And she's really good and should
53:52
have really like bubbly Angelic, kind of personality and stuff.
53:55
And she posted a video about three or four months ago and it
54:01
was like a retrospective of the previous year 2021 and shows at
54:06
the beginning. She's like dancing doing all are
54:08
like you know during covid and everything.
54:10
And at the end of the year she's kitted out and she's going on
54:15
stage. Wow.
54:17
Stage production of Heather's. I think it was and it was a
54:22
really quite an emotional video to watching it.
54:24
I just looked at that like, wow, like That's what it's about,
54:27
man. It's about the journey and Yeah,
54:31
keep going. Keep pushing with it.
54:33
You it will happen. A hundred percent.
54:39
So there you go pig, I entrusted perseverance.
54:42
Yeah no no I I'm definitely a warrior.
54:48
I've got too many setbacks so I always bounce back a couple of
54:54
final questions for you just to tie things up.
54:56
What's the best advice you've ever received?
55:03
For music could be anything. Could be any allergies.
55:07
This is a tough one. Hmm.
55:12
My great-aunt, it's not really advice.
55:15
It's more like more like an acknowledgement sort of my
55:19
great-aunt to always said that getting old is hard, but once
55:25
you're there, it's okay. So it always made me feel like I
55:29
was going to be okay. It's really sweet.
55:33
No, I like that. This fish.
55:36
That's reassuring. It's reassuring.
55:37
It's like right? Yeah, like hey, it's a hard
55:42
process, but once you're there, it's okay.
55:46
I think they get the good thing to remember, is, as well as let
55:49
you, you're not alone in it as well.
55:52
You know, because I get older and I noticed all the people, my
55:55
age and even sometimes could be younger acknowledge the same
55:57
thing. Like, yeah, well, these for a
55:59
live is we're going, he's got each other Yeah.
56:06
What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
56:11
That. Two things always face your
56:15
fears because usually it's going to be the best thing that you've
56:18
ever done. The more scared, you are the
56:21
better. It's going to be and also you're
56:25
never too old to start something new because a lot of people
56:29
think that they have like an expiration date or something,
56:31
you know, but you don't you can be 80 if you still like
56:36
breathing and moving and cognitive you can do it, you
56:41
know, just go for it. There was a male fashion model,
56:47
I don't know how many years ago this was maybe five or ten years
56:49
ago, the Asian fashion model it's quite famous story and the
56:55
guy had a great look. You know what I'm on about,
56:57
right? But for those who don't know,
56:58
it's like this guy well into his 70s, long hair, long, white
57:03
hair, you know, look really good for his age and he pursued
57:08
modeling specifically catwalk and all that for his whole life
57:12
and he Finally got a break late into his seventies or sixties
57:17
and he was doing, it was living the dream and he was telling a
57:20
story and it was a very beautiful Story and there's a
57:23
lot of examples of that. If the guy who made Kentucky
57:27
Fried Chicken Colonel Sanders, got his break very late in life.
57:30
I believe after many, many, many, many failures as well, and
57:33
quite a difficult life story. But eventually lived the dream.
57:38
And its, that's the thing about it as well.
57:42
Because I thought about all the possibilities, especially in the
57:45
moments where you doubt yourself.
57:46
I thought about like, well, what if it never happens?
57:49
How would I feel about that? What about if I get everything I
57:53
want, would I be happy if I got everything I wanted and it
57:57
wasn't what I wanted. You know, all these different
57:58
things going through my head. But I think ultimately like Just
58:03
got to kind of keep it simple. Keep pushing towards what you
58:06
want. And try and make the best of
58:09
each day, you know, like one of my housemates, I always see him
58:14
whenever we're hanging out taking pictures.
58:17
And every once in a while a better oh let me get a picture.
58:21
Let me just video this let me and I knew that because I like
58:24
to do it to not always but I like to do it too and it's
58:29
because you want to like Savor the moment Savor these times
58:35
because life goes so quickly. And Naturally, we were always
58:39
forward base and we're always looking forward.
58:41
We always like hoping for the best for the future.
58:43
But you know, and I said it before on the show, I probably
58:47
sound like a broken record for my listeners, but live in the
58:50
now live in the moment and that's where life is.
58:55
Really. Yeah.
59:00
Thank you so much for being on the show.
59:01
Charles, it's been a real pleasure talking to you and
59:04
exploring your life and going back and forth with you.
59:07
As we draw things to a close. Do you have any upcoming
59:09
projects or maybe some final thoughts that you'd like to
59:11
share with our listeners? I'm actually working on a new
59:15
album, my first album. Yeah.
59:18
Yeah. I'm really excited about that.
59:20
Been songwriting every week with the guys and yeah, we're
59:26
definitely making Headway on that have about Swells songs,
59:32
ready? And I'd like to get a few more.
59:35
So yeah. So be on the lookout for new
59:38
album. Hopefully, in a few months.
59:40
Absolutely. Brilliant say, might be a summit
59:42
deal. Early.
59:44
Autumn fantastic. Yeah, yeah, probably Autumn.
59:47
Yeah, test it. Look up for it.
59:49
Well again, you've been a fantastic guest.
59:53
I wish you all the best of success and happiness, and just
59:57
another big thank you for being on the show.
59:59
It's been a real pleasure. Thank you.
1:00:02
Thank you so much for inviting me.
1:00:03
It's been a real pleasure stood again, sometime, good luck to
1:00:06
you. And, to all the listeners of the
1:00:08
Christian re podcast, as always be safe.
1:00:11
Be well, and I'll see you in the next one.