Latest / The German Innovators Podcast – Breaking Barriers, Building the Future / #03 Chinese competitors challenging German SMEs

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#03 Chinese competitors challenging German SMEs · The German Innovators Podcast – Breaking Barriers, Building the Future

0:02
The gym and innovators in China podcast.
0:05
We Empower you to stay tuned with Chinese innovation.
0:14
Maybe you realize that more and more Chinese companies going
0:18
into this niche market, and to arrogance, and be able to reach
0:26
our level in record time. We lost this Market segment, but
0:31
actually globally never underestimate your competition
0:35
and understand that the market requirements in China are not
0:39
necessarily the same in, for example, Germany, we have to be
0:43
prepared that, they're not only challenging Us in China sooner
0:46
or later. They will also knock in our very
0:49
own domain Market in Germany. Today, I've paid a league now
0:56
with me, who has a double role as CEO at two companies in
1:00
China. At the same time, both companies
1:04
are affiliated with the Geo Group, the first company is
1:08
Shanghai Shanghai, Machinery Corporation, a Machinery.
1:11
Manufacturer that has been operating in China for 24 years.
1:17
The second group is the Hallmark Group which is specialist on The
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Woodworking industry, and with a market share of Over 30%, is the
1:27
world's leading provider in these fields home, a group has
1:31
14 production facilities, and over 20 sales and service
1:35
companies worldwide. And obviously China is a very
1:39
important entity Peter coming back to you.
1:43
So, across these two companies, you are responsible for 1,100
1:50
employees. You told me you have had a very
1:54
Interesting Journey. You have been living in China
1:57
for 30 years. What have been your personal key
2:00
learnings and all this time? Good morning Bettina, good
2:04
morning little bit about my purse.
2:06
I studied psychology in Germany and business administration and
2:10
of course, the do two by two studies.
2:13
I also came to China already, very early my first time as a
2:16
student in 89. And then basically, with the job
2:22
since 1994, I Work for for the do group or shank since 1994
2:29
talking. First of all, a little bit about
2:30
our group, but how we are here in China?
2:34
I mean, do up or shank came to China already?
2:37
Very, very early. They opened the office in
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Beijing, representative offices in Beijing, do as well as shank
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at that time, driven by the starting automotive industry,
2:50
mainly Volkswagen, who was that at their operations in China.
2:55
That's they also more or less requested that they have
2:58
communication or communication. Also, in China itself, and then
3:02
we are. But shank was also one of the
3:04
first companies in China to manufacture, they started a
3:10
joint venture in 1992, I think was very early for mid-sized
3:14
company. A German mid-sized machine
3:16
Building Company, is that Manufacturing in 1992 at that
3:20
time as it was only possible Equity joint venture.
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That means 50. And 50% of cooperating with a
3:27
state-owned company, and I would say this was a very, very steep
3:31
learning curve curve, because we had that, I'm totally different
3:36
views about share and stakeholder values.
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But again, this was again, it was good.
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You learned a lot. And then we decided as we, as we
3:45
could not go on our partner to go, or the phone owned.
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And, since 9, 1999 shank has its own, 100% subsidiary for fun,
3:57
fun fun. Its subsidiary in China, also,
3:59
started quite quite early and they established their
4:04
Manufacturing in 1995. At that time already 100% goofy,
4:10
44 known because then we can shrink started.
4:13
It was not possible, but from 1995 96 on board, it was
4:16
possible. So I'm see, we have already a
4:20
very long history in China. Not only as say Can service
4:25
represented but also when it comes to manufacturing and later
4:29
on also developing products, my personal learning is of course
4:33
that things in China different. It means on one side, management
4:41
management style. It's a how to say a little bit
4:44
more has been also to to the whole education system is a
4:49
little bit more top-down than in Western countries.
4:54
How was that For you and the beginning, it was confusing
4:57
because when I joined especially in this enjoy Adventure, they
5:01
even had you know it's really unpleasant measures.
5:05
The punishment was more important than then,
5:09
renumeration then motivation and that's when you did a mistake.
5:12
You were punished to cut a lot of money.
5:15
Fine. And you have been also, they had
5:18
black boards where they put name and mistake and this was for me
5:22
a little bit confusing because I, of course, Learned in
5:25
Germany, that should be a team, T work and cooperate, a
5:30
management style. This was very different in China
5:32
when I started. Do you have any an anecdote for
5:35
us? I can't imagine none.
5:37
But when first being confronted with this very different world
5:41
which is so much similar to our world in the west today but
5:45
which was a lot more different. I would bet you had to learn
5:49
this quite quickly and in a very hard way could be so If there's
5:55
anything like any jury story you have for us, that would be quite
5:59
interesting. Yeah, probably won't story is
6:01
that, although, we are producing balancing systems balancing
6:06
machines, basically everything, which is rotating our around.
6:09
His own axis has to be balanced. Yeah.
6:12
The start small turbo chargers in the dentist drill and it
6:16
helps this huge gas turbines for power stations.
6:22
And of course at that tire that you have to As we have hands and
6:26
so on some of the Epic basically everything that just running
6:29
around this axis as should be balanced.
6:33
And one particular item which has to be balanced.
6:37
Electric motors FM everywhere you have in the car.
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You have more than 200 electors. Small electric armatures,
6:44
electric motors and V our Germany.
6:49
The our biggest customer in Germany was borscht and Bosh
6:53
over the years. Because the fact that the labor
6:57
became more and more expensive in Europe, in Germany, ask for
7:01
really high speeds because mass production really high speed
7:05
means balancing and testing within a couple of seconds and
7:10
we and it's very very high requirements in regard of
7:14
accuracy, precision safety, and so on, and so on German
7:19
headquarter, basically decided that this technology is much
7:24
too. Sophisticated to localize, it in
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China and we lost in China. Because the industry of moved to
7:32
China that the production of those amateurs move to China
7:36
that today 80% of amateurs worldwide are produced in China.
7:40
The only build very, very simple machines and supplied, if you
7:46
want High sophisticated equipment, exclusively from
7:49
Germany, where more and more Chinese companies going, Into
7:54
this niche market and too arrogant in regard of speed and
8:01
so on, and so on. Then after a couple of years, we
8:04
had to realize that one particular Chinese competitor
8:08
became in record time. The world market leader in this
8:12
in this Niche because he realized that the industry
8:16
basically moved to China. That the speeds the speed was
8:21
not necessarily the main part here.
8:25
For the machine and he also realized that ultimately became
8:29
more and more important in China.
8:32
So he developed a very rather simple fully automated solution
8:37
in video record time and this solution able to reach or to
8:43
meet the local that the requirements of the local
8:46
manufacturers. And in really, in record time we
8:49
lost this Market segment but actually globally before.
8:54
Back today, we have a, how to say a comfortable position, but
8:58
we are not the market leader anymore because this, this
9:01
supplier totally focused on this leash.
9:05
It's very interesting to hear the story because I think for
9:09
most German companies, we would all think that as speed is
9:13
always a very important part in in China and said something that
9:18
we used to learn from Chinese competitors, that who have
9:21
always been very great at getting something on the Roads
9:24
were very, very quickly. Now, you're saying you also need
9:28
the, you have to do that, goes a lot deeper.
9:31
That's not enough to be just the quickest.
9:33
You also have to think into the future.
9:35
So what I what I hear from your story is that this Chinese
9:40
competitor was probably a bit more aware of this, like,
9:43
General trend of automation at this point in time than the
9:47
company. You work for was like, what
9:50
conclusions did you draw afterwards?
9:52
How can we learn from that? How how did You maybe change
9:55
your strategies to not have that happen again to you in the
9:59
future. The first of all, is that you
10:01
would never understimate competition in general, and
10:05
Chinese competition, the biggest lesson we learned.
10:09
We also have seen our Chinese competition catched up really,
10:15
really far from the last couple of years with Solutions, which
10:18
are, of course, not as sophisticated and as robust as
10:23
the job, as a German machine. You know, so but again, never
10:26
underestimate your competition and understand the market
10:30
requirements. In China Sea we have we have we
10:33
are very much in regard of safety very much.
10:36
See driven in Germany, it all has to be according to see
10:40
standards in China. This is not necessarily the
10:44
case, not yet, I think China is developing also more and more in
10:48
this direction but for the time being it's not the case.
10:51
So I think the automation sector is quite interesting because
10:54
there is this General Trend out of China, becoming the automated
10:57
Factory or the smart Factory of the world.
11:00
Now like moving a lot into this Automation and like integration
11:05
of several processes in the factories and but I also had
11:09
when when looking at the companies that you work for, who
11:11
Mark and Shanghai Machinery, I also see.
11:15
It's all that you interview who integrate a lot of these new
11:18
technologies nowadays to. So you have these luminous must
11:21
correct me if there's this round but I saw that you were working
11:24
with us. Went to reality solutions for
11:27
customer support you and also have a lot of like other.
11:33
I'm not sure about AI or like any of these approaches but I
11:38
think looking at the home pages at the websites.
11:41
You can also already tell that there is all this learning, the
11:45
Steep learning curve. This is like deeply Incorporated
11:48
in your presence and your web presence and how would you say
11:53
is that Trend? Now Clapping while, where is it
11:56
going? And do you see Chinese
11:58
competitors nowadays as a threat for your own company?
12:03
Or I use still quite confidence, you can keep your Precision in
12:07
China. With the recent developments,
12:10
first of all, many have to see why is strength in, towards
12:14
Automation in China, this is mainly, because China is losing
12:18
labor forces. I mean, we have a shrinking
12:20
population, we have over aging population and I don't know
12:24
where, Read this. But instead of China more or
12:27
less every year loses 1 to 1.5 million heads in as labor
12:31
forces. And then this is 1.
12:33
Mega tried. The second megatrends is that
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you have an increasing urbanization.
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That means the people move to the cities, but I asked a lot of
12:42
companies are not located necessarily the cities outside
12:46
of the outskirts of leaving tires, two or three or four
12:50
cities here. So there is this is probably the
12:54
this two other main reasons why automation is driven so fast
12:58
here in China. I have seen as especially, I
13:02
have to say in The Woodworking industry for pedalboard
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automation is actually, I wouldn't say easy, but this is
13:10
something which is where it's rather easy to realize, because
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you have to see what is happening here.
13:17
What what is, what is pain or illness requirements, please,
13:20
basically, you have hemorrhoids which you cut in different
13:23
sizes. And you add some recall that
13:29
bending on the site, and then you create some holes for the
13:33
screws to put the furniture together, and that's it, if you,
13:37
for example, if you the famous Ikea bookshelf, Billy Billy,
13:42
Billy bookshelf and suppress effect.
13:45
That's a perfect example for such a piece of furniture.
13:47
It's actually. Yeah, and it's the only thing is
13:51
that you have to cut the panel would in and sizes.
13:55
This is the this is one Challenge and this can be done.
13:58
Basically totally automated. You do not need workers anymore.
14:03
Who who cut the board? They don't need workers anymore.
14:06
Will glue the bad depending on the side and you also don't need
14:11
workers. Any more progress report.
14:13
So this especially this wood processing.
14:15
Woodworking industry is basically made for Automation.
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And in fact I've seen factories here, uh, factories here in
14:23
China in quiet. Mode areas where there are only
14:27
a huge factories with a huge output every day where there's
14:31
hardly any employees because not necessary.
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So this one side there is a trend for the increase in demand
14:39
for automation on the other side.
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Our Industries the food processing industry is basically
14:44
made for automation. So this is why we are very
14:47
active also in Automation and its software and how do these
14:50
like new technology Trends influence you in this regard?
14:54
I'd like if you say that you are Niche is very easy to automate
14:59
in this and like it can be fully automated now.
15:03
It is already. Is there any further scope for
15:07
improvement or would you say he is scope for improvements and
15:11
for more Automation and the real challenges are more in other
15:15
industry, sectors, in comma complex manufacturing, how do
15:19
you see this trend of automation further developing in China?
15:23
These are Mega trends The continue for the next couple of
15:26
10-15 years Mindy. Yeah, I think that I don't think
15:30
it will see a significant increase in population and I
15:34
also don't believe that come up organization will also continue.
15:39
And so this Mega Trends will continue.
15:41
I mean, and what you have here in China, we see companies who
15:47
are totally specializing in this automation, we have now
15:51
competitors before, we only had equipment suppliers.
15:54
But now, we have editors in the boot world with processing who
15:58
are focusing on Automation. And here we, of course, have to
16:02
be careful because they actually have also competition.
16:05
They are focusing Automation. And then, as a certain risk,
16:09
that our machine equipment is becoming a commodity.
16:13
And the, you know, why they automation is the main product,
16:18
they can pick from different, suppliers, equipment from
16:21
different suppliers. So that's why we also be a half.
16:24
Emphasize our capability to provide automation Solutions,
16:29
Gad, I mean, this is in general, I think digitalization is a
16:33
global Drive. I mean, we have you just talked
16:36
about augmented reality. I have to say this as bit, of
16:39
course, very much, very much increased on.
16:44
When using this technology has very much increased over the
16:46
last 33 years. So, this has been Innovation
16:50
driver also for your Global activities, I guess.
16:54
Is there anything that you have come across that you would say
16:59
Germany would have to adapt from China which would maybe even be
17:03
a shock to German people, but which would still be worth
17:08
adapting over there. I mean, have to be very careful
17:11
what I say now because it's not my fault, it's not my personal
17:14
belief. Yeah, I'm a I'm a truce to
17:18
support a believer in democracy. But I mean, China.
17:25
China, you have a lot of top down and the whole if you want
17:29
the whole political system is its top down.
17:33
And I have to say at least or China is the right SP?
17:37
At least the right way. Go.
17:40
Yeah. So and sometimes too much
17:42
democracy is not helpful. Germany is still a thing.
17:46
For example, for if you have 5 G, I mean, that's a lot of
17:49
discussion regarding enrollment of 5, G and B, FR B had the
17:54
affair. Behind.
17:55
For example, China, in regard of this, technology of this
17:58
enrollment technology. And of course in Germany, you
18:01
have a lot of discussions, how harmful art is masks in Addis,
18:06
Germany, ascended, masters, and so on, and so on.
18:08
And then, of course, this kind of stand on one side that it's
18:12
part of our political culture that we have this kind of
18:15
discussions, but sometimes simply discussing too long, and
18:19
then we are we risking to lose our competitive competitiveness.
18:24
Yeah, I think we can all read between the lines.
18:27
I think we can all think about what we can learn in this
18:30
respect and what'd mean maybe for Europe.
18:33
Thank you very much, John, for your elevation on that.
18:36
I always like to hear stories nothing or listeners always
18:40
benefit from stories about like surprises things that you.
18:46
For example learned that were not true.
18:48
That everybody thinks are true about China as I call these
18:52
extremes misperceptions. Surprises, anything that shock
18:57
to you, do you have any anecdotes and these Dimensions?
19:01
I think that what, you know, what makes me sometimes a little
19:05
bit angry than read about that China.
19:10
And that it given the given system cannot be located.
19:14
First of all, the word is proven totally wrong, because China is
19:18
leading in now, in many future Technologies, and sorry to say,
19:24
Look, if you have a look at when China political system in China
19:28
exists, more than 4,000 years. I mean, you can call it Imperial
19:33
and former times, you can call it a communist system today, but
19:38
in the end of the day, it's more or less the same as it's based
19:42
on real fortune is mmm. Again, I have to say top down,
19:45
it's this is something which exists since more than 2,000
19:51
3,000 years. And China has has always been
19:55
Innovative China. The some of the biggest
19:59
Innovations of the mankind, have been come out of China, the
20:04
compass or you call that a transporter, the dynamite, and
20:09
so on, and so on. So China has always been
20:12
invented in China especially in the last 30 years or 40 years
20:18
has developed in in incredible Innovative Powers, you know,
20:23
ended for me, it's always Also an interesting to see, of
20:25
course, as you can see they copy.
20:28
Well, they do. Yes, this is a lot of copy but I
20:33
also, as a lot of incredible ability to adapt to adjust and
20:38
then improve, the best thing is for me, is Richard, yeah, we
20:42
checked. What is free chat?
20:43
Widget is what it is Twitter, it is faithful, it is YouTube, it
20:51
is Apple pay and so on and so on.
20:53
Yeah, this is Incredible. This is for me, if you still
20:57
want to leave when it comes to social, social media is probably
21:00
they've been leading the leading platform in the world.
21:04
There's only a 14-10, one example.
21:07
So there is incredible Innovative power here in China
21:12
which is absolutely not depending on the political
21:16
system you have build, not only successfully run and manage
21:20
these two companies that we spoke about earlier.
21:23
But you have also, Help them build.
21:25
So you have a building from scratch?
21:28
I guess that you also must have seen a lot of changes in the
21:33
development of knowledge, spillover effects, maybe first I
21:38
would receive more from from Germans or Internationals
21:43
sharing that knowledge in their technology Fields here in China
21:46
but and now Vice Versa I'm learning from Chinese
21:50
Technologies from Chinese companies and demo.
21:52
I would assume that also called a operation between companies
21:56
and across Industries has has been changing.
21:59
What kind of developments do you see there?
22:02
And how has that influenced your industry?
22:05
But also, I'm coming back to what you just shared with us.
22:09
Like the whole big, all of the different technology Fields.
22:12
Yeah. I think again, especially in
22:15
Germany because leading still leading machine Building Company
22:19
in the world and I'm talking about only about this industrial
22:22
segment has to has to Then that even if the building many
22:27
aspects leading in technology, is that first of all, it said it
22:32
before, the Chinese are catching up very, very fast.
22:37
And they also I mean they have you're talking about learning.
22:41
I mean, they have learnt so much over the last 30 years, and we
22:47
have to, we have to be prepared. That they are not only
22:50
challenging Us in China, but they are all in there that way.
22:54
Team at goal, is certainly also other countries and sooner or
22:58
later. They will also knock in our very
23:01
own domain Market in Germany. Yeah, that are constantly
23:07
improving. Look for a better.
23:09
Just look at the automotive industry.
23:11
Look at Amy Kass. Yeah, of course, everybody has
23:14
had this Tesla and so on and so on, but the Chinese making now
23:18
and especially the battery industry is on the Chinese are
23:21
globally leading here. And if you look, The cost
23:25
themselves. Did they are getting better and
23:28
better and there are looking also better and better.
23:32
Yeah. And and byd for example, is that
23:34
showing us that they are entering entering the European
23:38
market already even speaking, I think to dealers that maybe
23:44
German car companies don't like to work with anymore and I think
23:48
they are very smart about entering our market and I think
23:51
you're right that not only you but maybe a lot of Other people
23:54
will be buying these Chinese cars quite soon.
23:58
Be that there's six. Now also started a corporation
24:01
with pyd and they will, they will in the future, we'll also
24:05
in their in, their portfolio, in their Visa cards.
24:08
That will also include DVDs because it and this is this.
24:11
But, you know, enough it's like make the we are waking up like
24:15
wow. How cute, how could this be?
24:18
But no, no this has been, you know, this has been developing
24:22
all because we just did We did not associate.
24:26
We underestimated the this Innovation probably
24:30
underestimated, the will of our Chinese competition of the
24:34
Chinese competition. And then also, of course, is the
24:37
problem with that is the mediator as support.
24:39
Okay. I can because we have, I have a
24:41
good, very good overview about the development of the EV3 in
24:46
China. Yeah.
24:47
That's what s really. And also, there are many other
24:52
examples that this Was decided by by the government that China
24:59
has to play a leading role in this Automotive segment and
25:03
there was a lot of trial and errors.
25:05
Government gave a lot of subsidies to EV car builders.
25:10
We have seen companies mushrooming that I have other
25:13
exams, but mushrooming and now the, if you have over over a
25:17
period of five to ten years if I mushrooming and now you have a
25:20
consolidation and now you have one, we saw Companies with which
25:26
has become very, very strong and others do not exist anymore.
25:29
Biden? For example and others.
25:31
Yeah. So, but this is a trial and
25:33
error the trial and error concept.
25:35
The Chinese government is practicing already already since
25:39
many many years. And again, now, they have
25:42
companies some oems, which will play a global role in the
25:46
future. You were, you were mentioning,
25:49
which at an integration and copying of certain Technology
25:55
from the West earlier on and I think China has had a very steep
26:01
acceleration when it comes to Consumer Technologies.
26:04
And investors have been going into these fields, quite
26:08
aggressively in the past, so that we all have these, like,
26:12
big big companies here that are also in gaining influence
26:16
globally. Also, like Tick-Tock being one
26:18
of them. Now, they're entering the the
26:21
industrial Fields, more aggressively When I talk to Jude
26:25
to people, they always mention that the Chinese might have been
26:30
very good at like beating us in the consumer fields of, like,
26:35
developing their own Solutions in these fields, but there will
26:38
have their challenges when entering the Industrial Field.
26:43
Now, when listening to you, I understand that you'd see that
26:47
completely differently. You see you say that.
26:50
And there is used like strong competitors in the industrial
26:53
food already. D.
26:54
And now my question would be, where do you see that strength?
26:59
Is it also the combination of different concepts that they saw
27:03
from us or be more aware of these future Trends?
27:07
Trends of integration digitization of what makes that
27:12
them to so strong word? Can they leverage on their
27:15
experiences with the consumer sector?
27:17
And this occurred 16-0 tell if the Chinese government sings the
27:24
Is helpful for China. It puts a lot of support and
27:30
effort in developing this industry give you.
27:33
Another example, for example is its Auto edits are autonomous
27:37
driving. This will be because of the
27:40
already existing amount of cars in China and then increasing
27:44
further, demand for cars in China, this will be sink.
27:47
Very especially for the big cities.
27:49
They wanted to see the cities are getting bigger and bigger
27:51
this bill, this bill will be driven this Technology will be
27:55
driven by China because China, who needs it once it.
28:01
So there is now already. It's also, it's also basically
28:05
the Chinese companies are leading now globally, leading in
28:08
this in this, in this field the other one thing is that this is
28:11
probably not. So not so positive is for
28:13
example, face recognition, it's also by private China.
28:17
Today is a world leading in this kind of technology and also I
28:22
mean, China is also world Eating for example, in DNA synthesis,
28:28
she right? So this because also it's think
28:31
it's considered helpful for for the CCP, the eyes of the leaders
28:36
of the CCP of the, of the government in those Industries,
28:39
which are considered to be first of all helpful.
28:43
And S also considered to be a mega Trend there.
28:47
China is, the Chinese government is more than willing to subsidy
28:52
a lot. They have that.
28:53
This is a I think we have to Consular and it's a 5 G.
28:56
For example, here that China is in this regard because they
29:00
missed out other Mega Trends before.
29:03
But since, you know, I mean this of the clear Target of made in
29:07
China 2025 was to be leading in this future key in Technologies
29:13
and industries, right? And so what do you say just just
29:16
to jump in here? What you say that?
29:18
Like the support? I the CCP and also the money
29:21
that is Stone into these like new.
29:24
Technology field that this is an the unfair advantage of China
29:30
and this is the major thing why we should be concerned.
29:33
And looking closely at Chinese competition, you have to look
29:37
closely at the Chinese competition.
29:39
Anyway, in the beginning, it was focusing or focusing for on
29:42
China other for China. And of course, now we will meet
29:45
them also a everywhere in the world.
29:48
Yeah, because this is probably also, now I would say one of
29:52
the, you know that now you have the Wait, why are they
29:54
increasing trade war between the US and China that the u.s. now
29:59
is trying with all efforts to cut China out from this from
30:04
this Superchips. Yeah.
30:06
As a because China and disregard China is still far, far behind
30:10
that still don't have the same chip quality specifications of
30:14
the let locally made chips like in the US.
30:17
That's why they're still important for 400 billion every
30:19
year dollars of chips from abroad.
30:22
Yeah. This disregards an end here.
30:26
I have to say China this faint because this chip develop is
30:31
China Superchip. This is also ongoing since at
30:34
the simple ready and a chance. I mean, this was a Target on me
30:37
and now we are talking about 20 years and it has not been
30:41
achieved yet. And there is, of course, there
30:42
is one big side effect when you get a lot of subsidies subsidies
30:48
from the government. This also mean still a problem
30:50
with China. So, of course corruption.
30:52
Yeah. So there has been In a lot of
30:55
effort but it's the end of the day.
30:57
This has no, there has been also a lot of waste money waste.
31:02
Yeah in general I think again if the government here sees that
31:06
this is something helpful and than they do support a lot.
31:14
And this is, I mean, say it in this way, you say it's unfair,
31:18
and I would say, I would love to see a little bit more of this
31:21
kind of this approach. Approach an investment analyst
31:26
in Germany. Look at give you another example
31:28
of er especially Europe, Western Europe.
31:32
Now we are. So depending on avant-garde of
31:35
our internet in regard of our Cloud solution.
31:38
And so on from American companies because we in
31:42
basically, in Europe have totally over overslept audio, or
31:46
if you search engines totally, totally laughing.
31:49
Oh snap overslept this. These Trends to.
31:52
So we are depending on American companies.
31:54
See in our in our world. First of all, China definitely
31:58
does not want to be depending on American companies.
32:01
Unfortunately, now there are two certain extent, we got of chips
32:04
and second again. I mean, that's probably the,
32:08
it's nothing wrong to get a little bit more support from
32:11
Top. In regards actually, in regard
32:14
of chi chi future industry Technologies.
32:18
So we should like, what our competitors closely we should be
32:23
quicker to. And two, we would be better to
32:27
protect our own Market or to be like, to just build our own.
32:32
If you just say it like this, the unfair Advantage, which is
32:35
never completely unfair, because we can influence that.
32:38
And so, we have, we should speed up in all these regards.
32:43
So, you were saying that you see a lot of movement from China
32:47
into Europe and into a lot of Chinese competitors moving into
32:51
our like, you could say our home markets Do you see that?
32:55
Do you see that there are still some scope for collaboration or
32:58
two? Would you say we should still
33:00
look for a collaboration? I would you say it should be, we
33:05
should still collaborate but focus more on strengthening all
33:11
these industry sectors are self and becoming a bit more
33:14
independent and stronger ourselves.
33:17
It's called market economy. Of course it is.
33:19
They're covered with a competition is always helpful.
33:22
I think this is in the end of the day.
33:24
Still, it's still, right? I mean, we have to just have to
33:28
improve our competitiveness. I mean, we will not be able to,
33:32
I think if we if you want to sell, if you want to sell into
33:35
China and especially Germany, wants to sell into, China is
33:39
selling wants to wants to sell into China in the future.
33:43
We also have to open up our markets for Chinese products,
33:45
right. The only thing what you can do
33:48
here is you have to become more Innovative.
33:50
You have to become more competitive and you have to
33:53
probably also think about Out, of course cost cost is certainly
33:57
a vector, but I think this is becoming a even less important
34:01
because you have also increasing salaries increase in here in
34:04
China. Probably the cost factor is not
34:08
will not become so important in the future but Technology
34:13
Innovation, for, for sure is or will be what would be the
34:17
leverage for us in the in Europe.
34:20
That's a to yet to become more competitive.
34:23
Is that mainly Capital that is being provided to, to invest
34:28
more and built by a better companies also in the venture
34:31
capital or the startup sector in the earliest, stage new
34:36
technological developments. Or is it something else?
34:39
No I think I know you mentioned about, it's all, you know, it's
34:42
not only one or two is basically I have to we have asked me to
34:46
start with education, you have to have been.
34:48
We have to make sure that they have proper a good education,
34:51
especially in regard of the Engineering of software and so
34:56
on. And so, on become, come here in
34:57
Maine, China, and Germany is not necessarily famous for its
35:01
software engineering, though, a software engineer, and cut a
35:03
demo more, like, they're more in India, but just to give you an
35:07
example. We have two good bait.
35:11
They're good pieces and second. Yes, we have a sink.
35:16
Just look into EV are compared to EV cars.
35:19
I mean, why are the EV cars now? So successful in China, you have
35:23
to have a Those look into what they're provided.
35:26
They have a very, I mean, first of all, it's a trend and attend,
35:29
they also have a lot of entertainment and so on.
35:34
And so on, this is in the car ready.
35:38
Infotainment in entertainment is a lot of soft advocated.
35:41
This is something I just learned a read that article about
35:44
Volkswagen what they want to do here in China, because they are
35:47
losing ground here, especially in the market that they want to
35:51
Now set up a new Grant with Which is doing exactly focusing.
35:56
Exactly on this on more infotainment and so on, and so
36:00
on. So you have to, you know, you
36:02
have to even from my point of view because China.
36:05
It's not only China will be important.
36:07
We will also continue to be important Market, but we will
36:11
compete with Chinese products and other markets in the world
36:14
and so you have to have even closer look what China is doing,
36:18
you have to probably it starts even more time to learn from
36:21
China and not. Eclectic or even be arrogant,
36:27
arrogant about that. We have the used to be in the
36:30
past this time is over, the time is over, to be to have a, how to
36:33
say it's not China, you better look into what they're doing,
36:36
and why they're successful. And the Big Challenge I think is
36:39
to how to transport these learnings and these experiences
36:43
into back into Europe and to make how to make this clear to
36:48
our fellow landsman, who have never been in China before.
36:52
But I think that that is our A joint Challenge.
36:55
And I'm very happy that you took the time to join me today
36:58
because I think today, we got one step closer to to making it
37:03
more transparent, to other people who are not so familiar
37:07
with China. What is happening here?
37:09
What we can learn from China and what's a kind of topics we
37:13
should focus on. So, thank you very much, Peter.
37:16
I really enjoyed it and I wish you a great day all the best
37:21
with your activities with your two companies.
37:24
And we hope to stay in touch. Okay, was a pleasure.
37:27
Patina. Thank you.
37:30
Thank you very much. Everyone for tuning in, we learn
37:34
from an experienced entrepreneur, with 30 years
37:37
track record, in China that we should stop under estimating,
37:40
Chinese competition, successful, Chinese competitors have long
37:45
started to move into our home markets and the areas in which
37:48
we are competing in cute. Future technology is traditional
37:52
Industries. Consumer and B2B industrial Tech
37:56
at the same time, we should all stay well, informed and that
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