Latest / The On Purpose Podcast / Ep. 351 - Abby Heffern
Transcript
- speaker-0: You are listening to the On Purpose Podcast. There's a moment in every man's life, especially for veterans, first responders, and men called to lead when the uniform comes off, but the mission doesn't end. Too many try to navigate that transition alone without structure, accountability, or brotherhood. That's why I'm proud to partner with Mission's Purpose, a community built for men who refuse to drift. Inside the school platform, You get live calls, challenges, frameworks, and disciplined brotherhood that pushes you to rebuild purpose, direction, and daily structure. If you're ready for the next chapter of your mission, click the link in the show notes to join us inside the Missions Purpose Community on School. You are never meant to walk this road alone. Hey everybody, if you've been tuning into the On Purpose Podcast, you already know we don't do a lot of fluff. My excellence on the leadership course is built on tactical coaching that transforms how you prepare, connect, and lead. Whether you're building a business, leading a team, or leveling up personally, we focus on deliberate action, strategic relationships, and decisions that create lasting impact. If you're ready to lead with purpose and precision, book me for a class or a speaking engagement at teamhardy.net. What's up everybody? Welcome to this week's edition of the On Purpose Podcast, where you know it's our job to get you thinking, get you moving, get you wondering what today's gonna bring to us. And this week I'm excited to bring on somebody that I recently found. started reading her blogs on Substack and I find her very interesting. And you know, if I find her interesting, I'm gonna bring her to you all because I think you're gonna love her. She's someone that I would say embodies the spirit of endurance. Not just Miles, which you know I'm training for the runs right now and I'm really tied up in that. But what I really love about her is the mindset. She's an ultra marathoner, a running strength coach and the rider behind the wild dog ride up where she shares lessons from running, racing and adventure. But what really drew me to her was that she's not just talking about like splits and times, but doubt and ego and identity shifts and the real life constraints that shape all of our journey. So even if you're not a runner, These are life lessons that she's sharing. just happens to be she learns a lot of while running or coaching running. And I think that's the parallel for why I felt she'd be such a great guest. So she's someone who's built what she calls, and you know I'm going to ask about this, unhinged self-belief. Because as someone that believes in myself, we're to have to discuss this. And she's generous enough to teach and give back to help others find that in herself, in themselves. So Abby, my friend, welcome to the show. speaker-1: Thank you so much. I'm excited to talk and to be here. speaker-0: Abby, it's our pleasure to have you here. First off, I wanna just thank you. I wanna thank you for finding your story, living your story, and then finding the strength to share it with the world because those stories, our stories, are what help other people find value in their stories, but they can't hear it if we don't share it. So thank you so much for finding your voice and being willing to put it out there. speaker-1: Yeah, thanks for saying that. It's really meaningful to hear that because that is why I started writing on Substack. And I think all of us walk around with stories inside of us that we don't think twice about. We think they're not that important, not that interesting, that other people won't care. And it's been really amazing to see how many people do enjoy reading and hearing about the stories that I have to share from running, from coaching. from just being a human being with, like you said, doubts and struggles and going through all the normal stuff. So I found it really cool to connect with people in a new way and in a deeper way that I also feel like is really hard to do in the current media environment. And that sub stack has kind of opened the door to do ⁓ recently. speaker-0: Yeah, and what I love about it and what I really try to practice and to encourage others to do is when you see somebody that's doing this, when you're reading their content, you're man, this is good. Don't be afraid to give them a compliment. Don't be afraid to say, I love this story. Or Abby, let's get you on a show and share your story with our community, right? We have this idea that's perpetuated a lot of times that if you're successful, I can't be. So I want to hold back a little bit. And what I want to challenge is everybody, there's enough success in the world for all of us. Let's give some likes a little bit. Let's give some positivity and some compliments. So I love your riding. I really enjoy it. as one of reasons I got on substack is cause I like going a little more in depth and really understanding things. But before we go to some of those deeper things, Abby, you're a coach. You can't just bring me in and get me going to sprints right off the bat. I got to warm up. So you ready for your warmup questions? speaker-1: I'm glad you are doing the responsible thing here and making sure I'm warmed up before we go full in on this conversation. Absolutely not, we cannot have that. Ooh, I'm a big reader. So I was a reader before I was a writer. And reading a lot inspired me to write more. My favorite book? I'm a huge Lord of the Rings fan. I love the Lord of the Rings series. I feel like I should be saying a nonfiction book here that's maybe a little bit more in the self-help genre. But Lord of the Rings is an incredible story of endurance. and of perseverance and of showing up for your friends on a much deeper level than being a fantasy story. So I love the series. I love the author obviously, and I love the movies. So I think that takes the cake for me. speaker-0: ⁓ that's a good one. That's a good one. All right. Who's someone in your life that's either influencing you or inspiring you right now? speaker-1: ⁓ this is easy. One of the people in my life who's inspiring me the most right now is my own coach. So I have a running coach. Her name is Kat Edwards Anderson. She is an amazing, talented ultra runner. She's actually gonna be doing the Coco Donut 250. I think that's like coming up next week. And not only is she such a hard worker and such a great runner, but she... very much like what I tried to do is vulnerable with her story and has gone through a lot over the past couple years and has been very open with that with me and has really led the way and showed me an example of what it's like to carry yourself through hard times with grace and hope and courage and to not lose sight of what you love and what you're passionate about. So she inspires me every single week, every single time I talk to her. She just reminds me that I can keep going and I can have big dreams and I don't have to see how it's possible now. I just have to take the next step forward. And she's an example of that. And she also reminds me of that all the time. speaker-0: Love it, love it. What is a quote or a mantra that you like to use to help you through those tough times? speaker-1: One of my favorite mantras is, was given to me by a friend of mine actually years ago. It was actually before my first 50 miler. I had asked a couple of my running friends, Hey, do you guys have any favorite mantras or mental tricks that I could use before I go and do my first ultra? And her mantra was I am the calm in the chaos. And just repeating that over and over again. And I think what that does is it's a reminder that the chaos doesn't need to go away. to be calm, I can always choose calm no matter what's happening around me. So I turn to that in hard times in life, but especially in ultra running, when things are really going crazy, the weather conditions change, I'm feeling nauseous and those things are just swirling around me. And instead of focusing on wanting the circumstances to change, I try to focus on what I can control, which is my own response and my own ability to stay calm and measured and ⁓ do the best I can. speaker-0: Yeah, that's a good one. That's really good. When you think about the season you're in right now in life, Abby, what word or phrase would best describe it? speaker-1: Ooh, I want to stay unhinged because I wrote about that recently and that's been on my mind. think unhinged is a good one in combination with the word renewal. That's a word I've been focusing on a lot lately because I think along with reflecting on my own unhinged self-belief, there's been a lot of like a renewal to dream big and to set these really big almost impossible goals and to not be afraid to do that. I think we all go through seasons of life where we get distracted by other things. and other responsibilities and it feels easy to kind of like put those big dreams to the side or forget about them because they're not happening right in front of us. So I think along with feeling really unhinged in the dreams I'm coming up with, I've felt renewed lately in my ability to dream those dreams and to focus on those dreams and to remember that anything could be possible with the right amount of time and effort. speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. Alright, one more Abby, one more. If your life has a theme song, what's your song? speaker-1: ⁓ man! A theme song! This one's a tough one! Ooh, I don't know. You might've gotten me with this one. Maybe the Rocky theme or something like that. I've done a lot of, of overcoming and, I've had a lot of moments, especially over the past couple of years that felt very victorious, maybe not in the typical way that's based on medals and standing on top of a podium, but just internally victorious. So winning a lot of internal battles and, um, overcoming a lot of. speaker-0: There we go. Rocky. speaker-1: doubt and fear and uncertainty. speaker-0: Yeah, no, that's awesome. It's funny you said Rocky because when you were like you might have got me I was thinking like what song comes to mind just listening to you and the little bit I've gotten to know you I was gonna pick a Braveheart theme song. speaker-1: That's good too. speaker-0: It's got some kind of like Lord of the Rings a little bit medieval stuff to it speaker-1: Yes, that's actually what I should have said. I should have said the entire Lord of the Rings soundtrack. Which is so true because again, that's a story of endurance. mean Frodo, how far does Frodo have to travel? A really long way. speaker-0: Alright, you warmed up Abby. speaker-1: I am feeling warm and ready to go. speaker-0: Alright, let's start with... Let's start with your self-belief first, if you don't mind. You recently unhinged, tied into your unhinged theme about believing in yourself. Talk me through that story of when did you recognize you had this power to believe in yourself? speaker-1: Cooling. I I really started recognizing it actually the more I coached other people and listened to how much other people doubt themselves. And I have doubts too, but I've never looked at something and thought or questioned if I could do it. I have this very foundational belief that if I work hard, I get the right people in my corner, the right experts, and I'm willing to persevere and keep showing up and not give up, eventually I will make it happen. And that doesn't mean I'm going to be the best at anything. like, I will never be a gold medalist swimmer. That will never happen at this point in my life, but I can try to be the best swimmer that I can be. And I can set goals for swimming that are relative to my own abilities and feel like stretch goals and believe that if I work hard enough and keep showing up, those goals will happen. And what I've encountered as I continue to coach, is conversations with people where people genuinely do not believe that they can do something like run a half marathon, run a marathon, run an ultra. They think that's not even within the realm of possibility for themselves. When I know that something like running a marathon, it is hard, it takes a long time to build up to. But again, with the right training, the right coaching, if you're willing to keep showing up for a really long time, it will happen eventually. It's inevitable. You will finish the marathon. So I think that's when I first started realizing that there's just no question inside of me where a lot of people do question themselves on a more regular basis. And I found that just really interesting to reflect on and wonder why that is and how that came to be. speaker-0: Do you have any thoughts like, we're very similar, like if I have one superpower in my world, it's just that I believe in myself. And that's why I will take risks and I'll do different things in life, because I just believe it's always gonna work in our favor, right? Like just believe it does. like, so I'm not afraid of that. Do you have a moment like as little Abby that you can go back to and be like, you know, this actually. This is an example of what I now know as my self belief, but I didn't know what it was. I just knew like, I wasn't afraid like some of the other people around me. speaker-1: I don't know if there's really one moment that I can go back to. I think I grew up in sports. So I think just from a very young age, when you grow up in sports, you're taught that hard work will get you there. And just to keep working at anything and to not give up, it's just constantly kind of drilled into your brain. I've been doing sports since I was five. So I think in general, just like subconsciously accumulates. also, which I wrote about on, when I wrote about this on Substack. you know, give a lot of credit to my parents, obviously. They just always told me I could do it. I never heard, don't do that. That's impo- even when I was doing something that was impossible, like I remember sending off self shot, like DIY headshots to Disney for casting when I was like eight, like I was watching Hannah Montana or whatever it was on Disney at that time. And I was like, I want to be a Disney star. So I literally took selfies of myself in my bedroom, put them in an envelope and addressed them to Disney thinking that somebody would reach out to me for casting and gave them to my parents. Like I want to mail this to Disney because I want to be in a Disney show. They didn't look at me and say, that's not going to happen. You can't do that. They just said, okay, sure. And, mailed it away. They, they never told me I couldn't do something or something was crazy or that I was being silly. ⁓ so I think just constantly hearing that and never being made to feel silly for trying or for putting myself out there, again, just subconsciously baked into me over an entire childhood to the point where I became an adult and walking around with all this self-belief and all this gumption to try things. And again, starting to realize that not everybody walks around that way. speaker-0: Man, that's so powerful. Yeah. So that is little Abby, right? That is little Abby dreaming big and not being told what she can't do. And I think that's so important. The people we have around us and the messages that we allow in through our filters, whether they're like you're saying they're telling you, ⁓ you can do it. Let's go. Let's give it a shot. Or it's that, ⁓ you can't do it. Here's all the reasons why it's gonna be hard and difficult. And one of the things I challenge people with is like owning that circle. around you and putting a sifter between like what information you're going to allow in and what you're going to keep at a distance because when you're a kid you really don't have a choice right you're in a family you're going to get whatever but now as adults we can own the information we want in and we let out. speaker-1: Absolutely. I do, even now, even though I have all this self belief and I am for the most part, pretty confident, I'm even very careful about who I talk to about certain things because people don't do it on purpose and they don't do it with bad intentions, but people will always project their own fears and their own insecurities onto what you're doing. So who I tell that I'm going to run a hundred miles, who I tell that I'm going to start a business, who I tell that I'm going to close my gym and started online business. That was a huge pivot I made. almost two years ago that a lot of people told me I was crazy for doing. And if I had internalized that, I would have never done it. But I just learned to take what people say to you with a grain of salt. And then like you said, be very mindful about depending on the dream that I want to share, making sure I'm sharing it with people who are just going to a hundred percent back me and be excited that I'm going to go for this big thing. knowing that I also have the resiliency to bounce back if it doesn't happen. And I think other people are afraid of failure, other people are afraid of uncertainty. So when they hear that you're going after something that you could fail at, or that's very uncertain, they'll discourage you or they'll express fear to you. That does not need to belong to you and that's theirs to own and not yours. speaker-0: Yeah, let's dive into that for a second. Cause I wanna go to the opposite end of this. Cause I recently just did a solo episode on this because one of the faults I recognize in myself looking back at my younger version is because I do believe so hard and I am willing to like just do things that not a lot of people will because I believe I'm gonna get it done. I wasn't the most graceful and seeing that not everybody had. speaker-1: Hmm. speaker-0: Right, and like, it probably cost me friendships and it probably cost me because I'm like, why are you not wanting more? Why are you not trying harder? And verse that grace. talk to me about this, cause here's what I think, like for you coaching is finding that balance between the drive to be great, the drive to dream, but also the grace to realize we all have separate journeys. speaker-1: Absolutely, yeah. I'm glad you brought this up because I think there is a misconception around the purpose of a coach and what a coach is there to do. It's really my strong belief and philosophy that I am there to help pull strength out of a person that are already there. I'm not there to make someone be what they're not or plant dreams in someone that are mine or things that I like to do. and that they don't actually like to do or that they're not interested in. My job is to listen and really try to understand the person and what matters to them and guide them along the journey of choosing and achieving goals that align with their values and then pulling out the strength that they already have that will help get them there. And that I think is one of the most honest and accepting forms of love and of support of like, am going to call out in you what I see in you, but I'm not gonna judge you for not having the same strengths that I have or the same dreams that I have. But I am going to help you look deeply inside yourself and see where you might not see what I see and where you could be selling yourself short. speaker-0: I love that, right? I love helping people see themselves through how we can see them. Right? Because one of the biggest traps we get caught up in is seeing ourselves. in a negative light, talking to ourselves in a manner we would never talk to anybody else like. I've never said these things to anybody, I'll say them to myself. And one of the things, coaching and just working with humans and just being somebody that cares about others, is going, wait, Abby, let me tell you how I see you today. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: You just never know what those power those words are gonna be the power that observation just sharing that and speaker-1: Yeah, definitely. And it's based off of what people actually express. So that's where the listening comes in. When I'm on a call with a new client or on a call with a current client, I'm doing a lot of careful listening, trying to pick up on the things that they're saying, that point at strength that they might not even know that they have. And even if they're not struggling with something and they're not in a weak point, every time I notice them say something that would indicate a strength, I try to call it out in that moment. Because again, that's what was done for me my entire childhood and my entire adolescence and look what it's created. So I just see so much power and every time you see someone doing something really positive or you see something in them that makes them unique or makes them uniquely fit for the goal that they're trying to achieve, continue to call those things out and notice them. And I think as humans, we're a little bit wired to notice the deficiencies. We do this to ourselves exactly like what you said, like, we will notice every flaw within ourselves. And how that sometimes manifests is that we then do that to other people. We notice every shortcoming in other people. So I have done a lot of work both for my own personal performance of like rewiring and make sure I'm not just noticing the shortcomings. I'm also noticing the strengths in myself. And then that rewiring within myself has helped me notice that in other people as well. speaker-0: That's such a powerful thing, right? Is that how we're treating others is usually a reflection of how we're treating ourselves. speaker-1: 100%. Yep. How you, if you talk to yourself in a negative and self-deprecating and pessimistic way, how are you not also going to see the other people around you in that way as well? If the only thing you can notice about yourself is what you can't do, you're also going, that's going to show up in your relationships as well. And I do think there's value in being honest with what our weaknesses are and where we do need to improve. But I work with endurance athletes and runners and ultra runners or people who want to run. And that is a certain type of person who in my experience, hyper fixates on where they fall short and hyper fixates on what they're not good at. You know, like a runner is not someone who's going to over focus on what they do well. Like it's just a personality type that tends to focus more on where there are gaps. and often forgets to notice all of the progress and improvement they've made and what they have accomplished and what they are good at and what they do bring to the table. So I think it just comes with the group of people that I work with as well. think maybe if I was working with a different group of people with different goals, I would need a different balance of like strengths versus weaknesses. But I think with runners or people who want to be runners in general, they're more likely to totally notice what they're not doing well and completely forget to acknowledge what they are doing really well and how far they've come. speaker-0: Yeah, I agree with you. mean, running, think is easy to do that because everything's metric based. Like you literally know how, if were you as fast as last time, slower than last time, like there's all these data points. And that's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about, because I noticed you, you shared this when I first stumbled across you and I really resonated with me was, it was about your smartwatch. and relying on the watch to tell you if you had a good workout or a bad workout, and if you slept well, you didn't sleep well. And I felt the same way, because I've only taken up running in last two years maybe, and I was hesitating getting a smart watch because I'm like, I don't need this telling me if I'm doing good or not. But then I got one because it does help. And the first two nights I tried to sleep with it to see if I was getting good rest, I kept waking up looking at it to see what my results were. speaker-1: Hahaha speaker-0: I said, I'm like, okay, this is like the opposite of it. So now I don't even let it in the bedroom. But I ask you that like, to help people understand the importance of enjoying the process of doing the thing that you want it to do, not based on the metrics, but based on, you enjoying it? And I think that was kind of the theme you had is, I don't need to watch to tell me if I'm enjoying what I said I love doing. speaker-1: Yeah, I just feel like it comes back to why are we out here? Why are we doing this? Why are we running? Why are we ultra running? Obviously, that's a very personal answer, but for me and for the people I work with, We want to be outside. We want to be present. We want to be working on ourselves and our character. And the watch definitely has some value. It's a tool and it could be helpful for a lot of different things, but to become hyper fixated on the watch and the data and checking it the entire run obsessively takes me away and takes a lot of the people I work with away from their why for being out there, which is that presence. and that mindfulness and that like becoming more in tune with your body. And the more you rely on a piece of technology to tell you about your body, the more, whether you notice it or not, you're going to start to check out of how your body actually feels. Because instead of just like checking in in the middle of the run to see how your effort feels, is this an easy effort? Is it a moderate effort? Am I going a little bit too hard? You're gonna look at your heart rate. You're gonna look at your pace. Instead of just paying attention, how's my breathing? How does my heart rate actually feel? Like, do I feel like I'm working really hard or do I feel okay? Are my legs tired? Are my legs feeling fresh? So again, I think it's a very personal thing. Some people really enjoy that side of the process and that's okay. But for me personally, I am not out there to be glued to more screens and more technology. am... out there to learn more about myself and to be better connected with my body and to nature. too much smartwatch and too much data really takes away from that. So in my own training, I really focus on, like you said, the process of tuning into my body and being really present with how I actually feel on any given day. And that is what I teach the people I coach as well, who typically come to me for the same reason where they feel like they either don't know how to make running enjoyable and free and present and they wanna learn or somewhere along the way, like it used to feel that way, but they've lost touch with that and they wanna return to that. ⁓ So that is a lot of the work I do and how I personally approach my own training. speaker-0: What My thoughts on that like my question for you on that is a Lot of times we were counting on the data to tell us we're making progress And we're missing all the the actual changes in our body the changes in our mindset That are reinforcing believe in yourself. You're doing the thing Right. You are making progress so what would you say to somebody that is struggling with just recognizing that by doing the thing, by going forward, it's progress and not being discouraged because they didn't see the big leap they want. can't see, they don't see the finish line at the hundred mile race because you're at the first, you're at the starting line and because really the hundredth mile doesn't matter until you get past the first mile, which doesn't, know, then the second mile. So what would you say to people just in life that can't seem to give themselves that grace to just accept the slowness sometimes that progress comes when we're trying to improve ourselves? speaker-1: I'd say a lot, ⁓ but where I'd probably start, and this comes up with the people I coach literally all the time, is just reflecting again on why are we doing this? What's the goal here? Is the goal to run your fastest 5K ever or to get to that marathon finish line or to get to that ultra finish line and then be done with running? Or is the goal... for this to be a lifelong pursuit of progress and development and learning. And usually the answer is, the goal is I wanna run for my whole life. I wanna run as long as I'm healthy. I wanna race for as long as I can. So then it's like, okay, if you wanna do this for your entire life, why are we putting so much weight and so much importance on this one day or this one week or this one run? entire life's worth of time to make progress and to see what you can do and to see how things come together. So why are we stressing so much about this one day that 10 years from now you're not even going to remember? So I think that's a really, ⁓ and I say that because I come back to that all the time when I start to get antsy with progress or I find myself ⁓ feeling frustrated with like how one run went or going a little slower in one workout than I did last week, it's like, okay, pause. Let's reorient and remember what I'm really doing out here and that I want to be running ultras into my eighties. So if I'm running ultras in my eighties, that's a whole lot of time to just keep showing up, putting in the reps and let progress happen over time. ⁓ So that's something I really like to come back to personally and with a lot of the people that I've talked to who have struggled with that. speaker-0: And I think just listen to that. The thing that comes to mind for me too is get out of comparing your progress to somebody else's. Right Abby, you and I aren't the same. We're not going to progress the same on whatever we're doing. We're going have different rates of how we get better at it. But we're both getting better. But if you're if you're so much faster, I I base how I'm to feel about myself on if I can keep up with you and I can't. Well then I don't even see my own progress. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. And I think too, like, you just have no idea how things are going to work out. You cannot even come close to predicting where you're going to be six months from now, a year from now, five years from now. So just keep showing up. Just take it one day at a time. Like I have goals that feel so big and borderline impossible. Like if I really think about it, it's like, how the heck Is that ever gonna happen? And what I remind myself is I don't know how it's gonna happen. That's the whole point. None of us know that's part of moving into the unknown and taking steps forward. All I can do is keep showing up, doing my best, looking for help, doing what I can to make progress and to put the pieces together towards the big goals that I have and see how it turns out. There's nothing you can do. but keep moving forward. That's the only way you can find out how it's all gonna come together and whether or not it's gonna work out. speaker-0: And that's honestly the fun part of it, right? Like if you knew, if you knew, okay, if I start this, I'm gonna be the best in the world in one year. How much fun is that? You already know what's gonna happen. speaker-1: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I also think conversely you can sometimes the way things are moving, it feels like it's moving in a very like pessimistic direction. Things even in life and running things can feel really bleak sometimes like if you're injured in running or if you're struggling with something in life, like there's no lying to yourself that those things are very hard to be dealing with in the moment. So I think it goes both ways. think It can make things really boring if you knew exactly how great it was all going to turn out. But I also think there's a lot of hope to be found, whether you're struggling with something in life or whether you're going through something hard in running and just remembering like, you do not know the end of this story. The story is still being written. And if you just keep turning the page, you have no idea what possibility could be waiting on the other side. Like there's just no way to know. So like you have to. do the thing of continuing to work through whatever you're going through so that you can find out and you can get to the other side. speaker-0: Yeah, I love it. I love analogies that are their stories like because that's why I always try to tell people and share with them as like, you're not supposed to know the end of the story. Would you go watch the movie if you know how it ends? Would you read the book if you already know the end of the story? No, like you want to learn and be with the characters as they develop. And one of things you said, I kind of want to transition is ⁓ I believe I got this from the story you wrote about your first 50-miler and not feeling confident and doubtful at the starting line. then something you said that really resonated with me was that every cutoff you made built confidence. So like the micro goals in the big process allowed you to start believing. Talk to us about like your experience with that and what that meant to you and then how like for our audience having small checkpoints along the way can build the confidence for them as well. speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. I'm glad you asked about that. That's one of my favorite races to reflect on because it did become such a pivot point in terms of how I saw myself as a runner and really how I saw my resiliency. think before that race, I had that belief that I could finish races and do well and challenge myself, but being put into a race or signing up for a race that was really just barely on the edge of what I could do and challenge me to push through. a lot of doubt during the race itself. It didn't just show me that I could do something really hard, it showed me that I could really be going through a low and feel like I'm not going to make it and bounce back and get there anyway. ⁓ So yeah, that was the Sean O'Brien 50-Miler. ⁓ So I think, are you referring to my first, ⁓ with the cutoff, sorry. Okay, so that was the Sean O'Brien 50-Miler. Sorry, I've done a lot of 50-Milers. ⁓ So that was the shuttle ride 50-miler in California. I grew up in so I live in a very, very flat state. And a couple of years ago, I decided to sign up for a mountain 50-miler. I had done a couple 50Ks in the mountains before, but this was going to be my first 50-miler in the mountains. I think there's like 11,000 to 12,000 feet of gain in that race. So again, pretty significant, even if you're from an area like that, but definitely significant if you're from a completely flat state like Florida. And the cutoffs at that race are fairly aggressive. Um, and for anybody that doesn't know a cutoff is basically at every aid station, they usually have aid stations every like 10 to 20 miles and sometimes less. They have a time that they want you to get there or that they require you to get there. And if you don't get there by that time, they end your race and they do that for safety reasons. They do it sometimes for permitting how long they're allowed to have people out there. So this race, Sean O'Brien. for me at least had very aggressive cutoffs where it was like right on the edge of the pace I could sustain for a 50 mile day with so much elevation gain. And I actually remember within the first five miles, I was already behind on pace. So I'm five miles into a 50 mile day. like first couple miles of this race is like straight uphill. So like already you're going up the mountain and I'm already behind on cutoffs. Like I'm like, am I even gonna make that first cutoff? Like this is gonna be embarrassing. And it was actually the first time in a race where I just felt so completely discouraged. Like I remember hiking up that mountain, complete back of the pack. Everybody was ahead of me. I was behind on the pace I needed to make the cutoff. And I remember having these thoughts like, what's the point? Why am I even bothering? Like, should I even be trying to make this cutoff? I'm already behind. And then I also remember kind of having this like out of body experience where I could like see myself having those thoughts. It's like I was battling with myself. So I would like have these really dark, almost intrusive thoughts where it was just like, quit now, sit down, give up, you're behind, you're five miles and you're never gonna make it to 50 miles. And then this like other voice would come in and be like, no, like we are here to give our best effort. So even if I don't make the cutoff, even if they cut me off at mile 10. and I can't even get close to that 50 mile finish line. I am here to give my best effort no matter what. So that is all I have to do right now. It doesn't have to be enough to get me to the cutoff. It just has to be my best. And I'll still be disappointed if I get cut off, obviously, but at least I'll know I did everything I could to make it happen. And that's what's gonna help me sleep at night, basically. So. I remember really going through this battle with myself in that first five miles. And I think the first cutoff was like between mile 10 and 15. And I made it with five or 10 minutes of spare. And that was the first one where I was like, I won the battle. Like, okay, like I got a long way to go. I'm like, so only 10 miles into a 50 mile race, but I won at least one battle today. Now let's look to the next one. And the next one was even harder, but then approaching the next one, it was like, I've already done this. I know now that I have the mental strength to not let these thoughts get to me and not let these thoughts make me quit. And that one, I think the second cutoff, I only had three minutes to spare. So it was even harder. I made it with even less time, but I did it with more gumption than I had when I had started the race. Cause it was like, okay, now I know I can do this. can overcome. And now I know I'm going to be really proud. if I keep doing my best and if I can get to that cutoff knowing that I have nothing left. And then it became like, if I am not finishing this day, like they're dragging me off the course. And I will be happy, I will still be happy if I get cut off and if I can't finish if the way I don't finish is they are literally forcing me off the course because I know that I committed to being out there. So yeah, it was just like a really... powerful day, not because it went perfectly and not because I was perfect and I didn't have all these like doubtful and quitting thoughts, but because I was able to overcome those thoughts. So when I finished, it was just like, wow, I stayed really strong, not just physically, but mentally. And that that really created confidence within me that I've carried to all of my races and Even when I'm in a race now, that's when I'm having a really tough time. I will often remember Sean O'Brien and be like, Hey, I have that. I have that fight inside of me. I have that dog inside of me. I know that whether I finish or not is not within my control, but within my control is how I handle the fight and how I show up in a fight. Um, so I think there's a lot of power, like you said, in just doing the absolute best you can checkpoint to checkpoint, whether it's cutoffs in a race or days in the week that you're showing up to running, just focusing on like, what is my actual best for this day or for this race or for this hour? And that doesn't mean it's your best of all time. It just means that you're honestly giving what you have to give in that moment. And that is what you can hold on to as something that can make you feel proud and confident in yourself no matter what the results are. speaker-0: Yeah, so well said. That was so well said. And yeah, I think about this. Think about this, Abby, if you hadn't focused on the checkpoints and the aid stations, if you'd have kept the big golf, oh my God, I still got this many more miles to go. I still got this. It'd been easy to get defeated because you're looking at too far down the road verse like, OK, I take one step, one step, one step. I'm getting closer to this aid station. Once I make that station. Then I got the next one. And that's what I like for people to realize with these goals we set, especially, you know, like the New Year's resolutions, all We set these big goals and then statistically most people are off of them by the middle of January. And a lot of times it's because it's so big that we don't know that we're getting closer because we're not breaking them down to micro and like make it to the aid station. And then worry about something else. speaker-1: Yeah. And I'm a proponent of even in my own internal talk and what I talk to the runners I coach about something I say all the time is we set the big goal and then we forget about it. We're just going to forget about it. And we're just going to focus on doing the things we need to do and to get there and making those things as good as they can be. And we're going to forget about the big goal itself. Like again, even with my own really big goal. So I think about this. a lot because one of my really, really big goals right now is running the entire Florida Trail, which is a 1500 mile national scenic trail that goes from the Everglades into the Panhandle in Florida. That's such a ginormous goal, not just physically, but logistically. Again, it almost feels impossible. And if I think about it too much, I can come up with a thousand reasons. why I'm never going to get there and I shouldn't be setting that goal to begin with. And what am I even doing thinking about this instead of acknowledging that, that seed inside of me and that, that goal that's been planted inside of me and saying hello to that and writing it down and then completely forgetting about it and not worrying about the how that much just like in little pieces, like just keep running more. Keep exploring more of the Florida Trail section by section over the next couple of years. And don't think that hard about the big goal itself. Just think about the little pieces that you could do every month or every couple of months that'll just slowly get you there. speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, let me ask you about that because that was something else I had seen that you had mentioned is I Don't say envy was the word you use but something that like ⁓ I can't I can't run these mountain races I don't have any mountains I live in Florida and you were like in comparison right all the best trail runners are out west because these mountains and I'm just in Florida and then you shifting like wait, I have amazing trails and Talk to me about embracing like I guess because what I take from that is not wishing you were somewhere else to pursue your dreams Look on wait. This is where I am. My dreams can still love live here Talk to us about that shift speaker-1: Yeah. So in general, in ultra running, like you already mentioned, there is a lot of focus on the races and professional runners that are out left. And for good reason, right. That's where the mountains are. There are some incredible races out there and there are a couple of particularly big ultras like Western States that get most of the media attention throughout the year. and especially when I first started ultra running and even as the years have gone by. I have often felt like if I want to be taken seriously as a trail runner, because I do have competitive goals, and if I want people to take me seriously and I want to make my mark in this sport, I need to go out there and do what these pro trail runners are doing and what these trail running podcasts focus on and talk about. And if I don't go out and do that, people are going to take me seriously. I'm not a real trail runner because I'm not running mountains all the time. And I think really over the past year, as I've come to fall in love with Florida and fall in love with our gorgeous trails here and the incredible wildlife and how much land we have and how much water we have. I've wanted to do more and more running within Florida and more and more racing within Florida. Cause I just love it so much. But again, I have that voice talking to me like, Nope, doesn't count. It's not really what this sport values. No one really cares about Florida trail running. Like no one really talks about Florida trail running. gotta go do those mountain races out west. And again, it's just been that internal fight of what I wanna do and what feels authentic to me versus doing what I think other people would find cool or what other people would expect me to do. And somewhere along the way, it's just been a question of, do I want to do this sport in a way that other people value or do I wanna do this sport in a way that aligns with my values and what I care about? And it can be really hard to put other people's values aside sometimes because we do live in this social media environment where everybody's sharing their life and their opinion 24 seven. But if I flash forward to when again, I do a lot of thinking about when I'm 80, if I flash forward to when I'm 80, am I going to care what anybody thought about me or thought about my running or am I going to feel really good and rewarded about the fact that I followed what was in my heart, I think I'm gonna feel really good about that. I also really believe that these things get put into our hearts for a reason. There's a whole lot of people who wake up every day and don't even think about Florida and don't even know about the Florida trail. But somehow I found myself in this moment in time, feeling in love with that trail, feeling excited about being on it, doing different sections of it, eventually running the whole thing. Why? Why has that been put in my heart? Why have the mountains not been put in my heart? The mountains are not on my heart right now. Why? Why is my heart here? I'm just a believer. Those things get put inside of us for a reason. I think that comes back to just the faith I have in why different things happen and why we're drawn to different activities and different goals. And I take that really seriously. So I think it's a combination of making sure I'm living my life based off of my own values and not somebody else's values, and also honoring the passions and excitement and dreams that have been placed inside me for a reason that I don't know yet. speaker-0: I love that and you're not supposed to know, right? like it would be be anti-climatic if we knew, but just listening to you speak to that, I'm thinking, you maybe you're there because there's a little kid in Florida that wants to run trails, but doesn't think he can or she can because they don't live in the mountains and they don't even try. And then all of a sudden they see your story and they wait, no, we can do that here. Right, and that's the beauty of living our stories and sharing our stories is you never know who's watching and who's gonna become inspired. speaker-1: Yeah, I completely agree. And I think about this a lot too, because there's also a temptation to feel like I have to be inspiring, you know, like, I need to live a life that's purposefully inspiring, like, why, what am I doing if I'm not doing stuff that's going to help and inspire other people? And while that comes from a good place, I think that's actually like a pretty harmful way to approach life, like feeling like you need to act or be a certain way in order to make an impact on other people and that just being myself isn't enough. And I think often about ultra runners like Courtney DeWalter or Tara Dower who have inspired me so much just by being themselves and just by doing the things that they love to do. Like if I don't know them personally but if I think about what I see about them. on at races and in podcasts, they are just living a life that's authentic to them. And as a byproduct, that's maybe super inspired. So why would I have to do anything but live a life that's authentic to me? And then it's not up to me whether that inspires someone or not. That's up to God to make sure the people that need to hear me or see me or be around me. get around me, I just need to live a life that follows the things that are important to me and that's enough. And I don't have to manufacture that. speaker-0: Yeah, and that's one of the biggest things we can let ourselves know is just being true to ourselves is enough. We don't have to be anything more than. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. And again, I just, think it's like a really valuable reflection to do. If you think about the people who have inspired you, do you, have you ever once thought those people were like trying to inspire you? No, they're just doing the things that they were called to do and we're lucky to be inspired by them. So why would this say not be true for me? speaker-0: And think of it like this is like, how did you even find them Pete? How do you find them? Right? Because they were being who they were supposed to be. So you were attracted to find them. Right? Yeah. No, I love it. Abby, as we wrap up, I want one final question for you. If someone is listening, is standing at the start line of their own dream, whatever it is, and they're scared, unsure, or doubting, what would you say to them? speaker-1: Mm-hmm. For sure. Your doubt and your uncertainty and your fear is a signal that you're doing something new, that you're leaving your comfort zone. It is not a signal to not do that thing or that you're not capable of doing that thing or that you shouldn't be doing that thing. I think most people feel fear and doubt and they take it as a signal to stop. They take it as a stop sign. Instead of just a normal part of the process of moving into anything that's unknown or new, and I'm bracing that, that doesn't mean that the nerves automatically go away or that the fears automatically go away. It's about learning to exist with them and being okay with taking steps forward and doing that thing while those feelings are still there. speaker-0: ⁓ Such good advice such good advice, but now I lied I lied I have one more question for you It just came to my mind you do a lot of reflecting as you said on 80 year old Abby And what she's gonna do so let's do this. Let's try let's try this What does today today Abby? Want to say to the 80 old version of yourself? speaker-1: What do I want to say to the 80 year speaker-0: Yeah, because a lot of times we flip it backwards, right? We ask what does the future self want to say to you today? But I want the opposite. I want today Abby talking to future Abby. What would you say to them? speaker-1: I'm so proud of you for living your dreams, loving the people around you, and living a full and adventurous life. speaker-0: Amen. Abby, it's been awesome having you on the show, my friend. I'm glad you're writing. I'm glad I was able to read it, right? Like I was attracted to find it. And hopefully we're on the trails together sometime. speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh, that'd be so fun. I'd love that. Next podcast, live on the trail. speaker-0: There we go. Abby, thank you so much for all the work you're doing, the life you're living and the people you're leading. We're blessed to have you and it's been our pleasure to have you on the show. speaker-1: Thank you so much. speaker-0: When you're training with purpose, your fueling can't be an afterthought. That's why I use NeverSecond, the simplest, most reliable system I have found for staying energized, hydrated, and steady through their long efforts. Their C-Series carbs take the guesswork out of performance. No stomach drama, no complicated mixing, just clean, consistent fuel that actually works when the miles get long. If you want to train with more intention and recover without feeling wrecked, check out NeverSecond. Click the link in the show notes to get dialed in. And remember team, life is far too short to live any other way than on purpose. We'll see you all again next week.