Latest / Brandon Fogal Evolution / #149 - Dinesh D'Souza vs. Alex O'Connor: Do the Gospels Contradict Themselves?

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#149 - Dinesh D'Souza vs. Alex O'Connor: Do the Gospels Contradict Themselves? · Brandon Fogal Evolution

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  Dinesh D'Souza and Alex O'Connor had a pretty heated exchange regarding the
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  veracity of the Bible. Did it contradict itself?
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  Are there places in there that it contradicts themselves?
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  Can we trust the Bible? I'm going to look at this. I want to take a quick look
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  at this because it was very interesting and you'd think I would fall on the
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  side of Dinesh D'Souza, but I don't exactly. And we're going to see why. Here we go.
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  Times another New Testament writer says that the family had traveled to Egypt.
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  I don't think this is an attempt at metaphor or allegory as i would
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  say of genesis whether you think that is or not i would say that in the
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  case of the gospels we can agree that on at least some instances this
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  is a clear attempt at mundane history this is not attempt at writing some
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  kind of metaphor to explain a truth that's otherwise unknowable to the human
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  mind it's a very straightforward attempt to record what actually happened and
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  they contradict each other okay before we keep going there are four gospels
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  the canonical gospels matthew mark luke and john matthew mark and john they
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  just write it as they go. They just say, this is how it is.
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  The only one that even gives us an explanation of why they're doing it is the
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  gospel of Luke, the author of Luke.
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  And he is a doctor from what we can gather. He was a physician.
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  He traveled with Paul. But at the beginning of Luke's gospel, he writes this,
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  chapter one, verse one, in as much as many have undertaken to compile a narrative
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  of the things that have been accomplished among us, just as those who from the
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  beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us.
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  It seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time
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  past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
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  that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.
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  All right, he's the only one that tells us why he's even setting out to put
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  pen to paper. But let's continue because you would think I would think I would
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  be on the side of Dinesh and arguing for there are no contradictions in the Bible.
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  But Dinesh doesn't say that exactly. He kind of acquiesced to this proclamation
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  by Alex saying there are contradictions. But let's continue.
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  They contradict each other because they're written by four different people. Sure.
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  So let me ask you this. If God were writing it, I'm quite sure he would have written it once.
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  He would need four. Sure. So some of them are wrong then. No.
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  Okay, so when you say they're wrong, let's consider Luke's gospel for a minute.
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  Luke is a medical doctor.
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  Luke is not present at the events being described.
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  Luke is virtually in the position of Thucydides riding the Peloponnesian War.
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  Now, Thucydides did fight in the war, but in most of the events described by
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  Thucydides in the Peloponnesian War, he wasn't there. Making them very unreliable, right?
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  No, on the contrary. It is, in fact, the most reliable account of the Peloponnesian
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  War that historians have.
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  Let's not say that it is reliable, though. No, what I'm trying to say is that
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  when you're talking about historicity, and you're talking about historicity
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  now in the ancient world.
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  You have to recognize that these people are not, these people are not approaching
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  it as modern historians. Luke is going around.
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  So Dinesh, he says that he is not a biblical scholar.
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  He's not claiming to be a biblical scholar when he's doing this.
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  He has more just philosophical arguments and why he argues for the existence of God.
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  He uses that. He doesn't get into the nitty gritty of the Bible.
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  There are things that Alex calls out because Alex is very versed in the Bible.
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  And he says verse by verse, this over, this says here, this says this over there, they don't line up.
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  And Dinesh doesn't even know at all what he's talking about in some instances.
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  And when we get to the gospel writers, I like Dinesh's kind of approach in a
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  sense that he's kind of coming at it with maybe a layman's term in this of just
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  like someone reporting the news and a witness to an event.
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  If everybody sees a car crash, they're not all going to say,
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  if they're looking at from all different perspectives, they're not going to
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  say the exact same thing.
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  But then some people say, well, the Bible, they're all using the same source.
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  So they are colluding. They're getting together.
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  Everything says the exact same thing. But then at the same time,
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  they're saying there's contradictions in it.
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  You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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  Because what Alex says about the contradictions in one part as opposed to the other.
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  Dinesh, he acquiesces. He said that there are contradictions.
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  I would say there are not. And as history unfolds, we always find out that something
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  explains something further.
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  There are things that seemingly contradict. I agree with that.
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  When we talk about history, in the beginning of Luke's gospel,
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  when he talks about governors in place and the census happening at Jesus's birth,
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  that we don't have corroborating evidence of outside the Bible to defend it
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  and kind of uphold it and support it yet.
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  There's some things that we might not have exactly, but we always,
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  it seems like people put the Bible on one, like one table and say like elevate it.
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  And then they don't, they don't treat other historical works the same way that they treat the Bible.
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  The Bible itself is a historical work. The guys didn't get, sit down and say,
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  I'm writing the Bible, everyone. Here we go.
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  Luke didn't just say, all right, you got me on camera. I'm going to start writing the Bible.
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  No, he was writing just an account of the life he witnessed from the people
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  he gathered kind of information from.
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  So it would be different if they all just said the exact same thing, which they don't.
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  Well, I want to continue. So let me ask this very straightforwardly then.
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  Okay. Luke says that after the birth of Jesus, the family fled to Egypt.
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  Matthew says that they went to the Jerusalem temple. Are they both correct or is one of them wrong?
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  Who the heck cares? I mean, look. Okay. Well, first of all, Dinesh is just going with like, who cares?
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  We don't need to get into the minutiae, like the very granular thinking details
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  of everything of what it's saying.
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  I would say that, yeah, we do. the Bible should not contradict.
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  If he is who he is and the Bible is the word of God, it shouldn't contradict itself.
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  But that's not going to destroy my faith if someone points out something that
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  seems like it contradicts it.
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  Because my faith isn't like that our interpretation right now and how we see
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  the Bible and we have all the manuscripts, we don't have the very first things that they wrote.
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  We don't have the autographers of what came from the gospel writer's hands.
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  We have copies of a copy of a copy of a copy, but we, having so many copies,
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  we can get to kind of what it said at the very beginning when it was first penned.
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  But Alex saying that there is no contradiction.
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  I mean, the Alex saying there is contradictions between like Matthew and Luke
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  regarding the birth narrative.
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  Why, why, because if Jesus was born, why, why did they either have to go to
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  Egypt or they, they, they go to the temple?
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  First of all, the narratives of Matthew and Luke are different times.
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  Matthew is like, let me make sure I get this straight. Matthew is when Jesus is a little bit older.
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  When you see Jesus as born, you don't see him being swaddled in a manger or
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  putting in, just being right when he was born.
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  You see the Magi coming, which is within two years after his birth.
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  So they're different timeframes.
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  Luke is rather when Jesus is actually born because the shepherds are the ones who show up.
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  So then within two years time frame, they could have went to the temple and went to Jerusalem.
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  And then in Matthew's gospel, what he renders is they fled to Egypt whenever the Magi came.
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  And then they were told in a dream to flee to Egypt. And that's what happens.
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  They're talking about two different times. It's not the exact day or date that
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  this is all happening. So I had to point that out.
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  This is very, very good exchange between these guys. I just want to wrap it
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  up with one last thing with him. Oh, I do.
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  Let me say why what you care about is...
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  Is not only trivial, but indicates a kind of unwillingness to try to get what
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  the text is trying to communicate. I'll tell you why I don't think it's trivial.
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  Because I think that the reason why Luke may have invented the flight to Egypt, he tells us.
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  Luke says, when he records the flight to Egypt, and then they return from Egypt,
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  he says, this is so that we can fulfill the prophecy from Hosea chapter 11,
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  out of Egypt, I shall call my son.
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  Now in Hosea, God is talking here about the nation of Israel. Okay.
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  I want to wrap it up with this because this is the verse that Dinesh is not aware of.
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  He doesn't know about this prophecy that Matthew, and I think Alex had it wrong.
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  It was Matthew who uses this verse because the biblical authors,
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  they don't have an American mindset that is heavily influenced by Greek thought
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  and linear thinking and just thousands of years of Western culture. This is 2,000 years ago.
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  They don't have that same. It's not the same type of culture.
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  They see the world is more secular.
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  It repeats over and over. It's not like a one long line happening.
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  It's something happens followed by a greater fulfillment.
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  And the authors of the New Testament, they were Jewish. Luke wasn't Jewish,
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  but he was more than like, I argue he's proselyte.
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  He was a proselyte, formerly a Gentile, became Jewish, but he could have just
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  been a Gentile, but he's not just a full-blooded Jew. But there are arguments
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  between that Matthew has the gospel. Let me see if I get this straight.
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  The Matthew, the gospel writers that they were just thinking in this.
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  This one, a prophecy in the Old Testament says this, here's the fulfillment stamp.
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  Boom. You know, there we go. You got it. No, it's rather they're interpreting,
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  they're pulling out of kind of like hints of what is happening in the Old Testament.
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  And it's fully more revealed in the New Testament.
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  A lot of things catch people off guard. A lot of things catch people off guard.
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  All right. All right. So if you've enjoyed this video, hit this link and I will
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  see you all on the other side.