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#080 _STORY INSPIRE: Decisions that transforman with Forrest Galante · INSPIRE STORY

0:04
Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast
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by night, all day.
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Speaker 2: My friend, Joe. What's good to see you, man? Bro,
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it's good to see you.
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Speaker 1: So I've been sending you stuff because I knew that
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you were coming on. And I sent you that one,
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that video of the guy who got a trail cam
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photo of a black panther.
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Speaker 3: Yep.
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Speaker 1: So is that just a melanistic thing? Mountain lion? What
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is that?
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Speaker 2: It's a great question. There's never been a melanistic mountain lion.
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Nobody's ever seen one, ever. Never hit one with a car,
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never born one in captivity, nothing. So mountain lions, by definition, pumas,
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you know, whatever you want to call them, there's never
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been a black one, ever. But every year, I mean,
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I got a buddy in Florida who swears blind that
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he's seen a black mountain lion in his backyard. And
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yet that photo that you sent me, That photo circulates
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like once every three years. It's bullshit. It's bullshit. It's
1:01
a real photo, but it's a trail cam photo. Oh,
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it wasn't this one.
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Speaker 1: Well, I think that's the first one. And then there's
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another one with the cat gets like right up to
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the lens. Yeah, that one.
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Speaker 2: So that photo is a real, I want to say jaguar.
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It's hard to tell. But either jaguar or black leopard,
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both of which do become melanistic. And you can tell
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that because you can see the spots barely like the rosettes.
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So all these melanistic cats like like jags and leopards
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and things that do get melanistic, they still have those
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rosettes under the black coat.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So not a mountain lion.
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Speaker 1: Too bad. I know.
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Speaker 2: It's such a bummer. One day if somebody finds one,
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that'll be like a huge thing.
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Speaker 1: But isn't that funny that we want it to be different?
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Because just a mountain lion itself is amazing. I mean,
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if they were all black and there was like a
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tan mountain lion, be like, oh, somebody saw a tan
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mountain lion.
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Speaker 2: A hundred percent. It's like whatever is different and rare
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is what people just are like. I want that one thing.
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Speaker 1: I've always said that about Bigfoot. Yeah, Bigfoot is kind
1:57
of interesting, but not as interesting as an orca.
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Speaker 2: A hundred percent.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Like we have gorillas that are cooler than Bigfoots.
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Speaker 1: Well, orcas in particular because they have languages that we
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can't decipher.
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Speaker 2: Languages, specialized diets, some kind. I'm sure you know all this.
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Can't even talk to each other.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unbelievable. Like it's the same as if you
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or I went to India or Africa. It's like we
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can't communicate. We don't eat the same food. We look different.
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And yet to us, an orca is an orca.
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Speaker 1: Right. Yeah. And it's super smart and huge brains and
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don't kill people for some strange reason. Except when they're
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in captivity. That's right.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Which is so crazy. I did a thing in Baja, Mexico,
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maybe three years ago, where we were just cruising on
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this little ponga, this little fishing boat. And we saw
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these orcas go by. And now people seem to be
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doing it a lot. But at the time, it was
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like nobody had really just tried this. And this was
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a transient population, which means they primarily eat seals and
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sea lions, not the stingray eaters. And so we're like,
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fuck it, let's just go. And we, like, ran the
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boat up ahead and jumped in. And the orcas came up.
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And the bull never came up. So, you know, the
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bull has a huge fin. Like, he's the biggest, like,
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the dominant protector of the pod. But the cows and
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their babies came up. And the boat, like, drifted away.
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And me and my buddy Mike. And they just circled us, like,
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just looking at us with their big eyeballs. And it
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was me to you from orcas. And they did, like,
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two circles around us. Like, what are these things? Then
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we're just like.
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Speaker 3: Meh.
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Speaker 2: Boring. And kept swimming.
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Speaker 1: They must know, right? If they're that intelligent and they
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have language and they communicate, they must know what a
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person is, right?
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Speaker 2: I think I.
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Speaker 1: Look at this.
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Speaker 2: Oh, dude. I saw the guy that filmed this.
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Speaker 1: This is so crazy. Orca headbutts a sunfish so hard
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it explodes.
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Speaker 2: Boom. Turns into pieces. So this is a newly documented behavior.
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Just in the last maybe six months, they've found that
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orcas will literally explode fish from impact... whether it's a
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game or what, but they're finding that this is not
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the first time they're doing this. They're starting to just
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explode these fish on impact just because.
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Speaker 1: How are they doing that? Like, how fast are they going?
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Speaker 2: I do not know the answer to that, but it's impressive.
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Speaker 1: I would have never imagined that that would actually be possible, right? Like,
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how fast can you?
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Speaker 5: I'm trying to, like, what does the starfish look? Is it, like,
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flat like a stingray?
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Speaker 2: A sunfish? It's like a mola mola, those ocean sunfish
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with the big goofy fins. They're pretty huge. Some of
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them are huge.
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Speaker 4: 600 pounds.
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Speaker 2: They get huge.
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Speaker 1: How do you think they literally turned to dust?
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Speaker 2: Dude, I think those are the orca equivalents of like
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a redneck that wants to hit a turtle on the
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road and they're just like, we're bored, let's explode it.
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Speaker 1: Or those guys that do that. Have you seen that game? Well,
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it's not a game, but it's, I guess, whatever it is,
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an activity where these guys just run at each other
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full blast?
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Speaker 2: Dude, RNC, Run Nation.
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Speaker 1: Is that what it is?
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Speaker 2: I fucking love that.
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Speaker 4: You do?
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Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite things. I'm such a huge fan.
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Speaker 1: How could you love that?
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Speaker 2: I love it, dude, because I play rugby. So it's
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rugby boys that are doing it, right? It's like an
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Oklahoma drill, except for rugby guys. And that's a drill
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that when I was playing rugby, we used to do
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all the time.
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Speaker 1: You just run at each other?
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Speaker 2: You just run. It's my favorite. Run Nation, RNC, it's
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my favorite thing. I watch every video. Look at these guys.
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I would have never... They both.
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Speaker 1: Just went unconscious.
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Speaker 2: Look at that.
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Speaker 1: They both went... Oh, that guy's... That guy's fine.
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Speaker 2: I'm such a fan.
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Speaker 1: But I've seen it where they both get unconscious.
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Speaker 2: I want to bring these guys to the U.S. and
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see how they stack up against NFL linebackers.
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Speaker 1: Oh, Jesus Christ. They both headbutted each other, dude.
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Speaker 2: Dude, you love fight sports. What are you talking about?
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Speaker 1: This is not a fight sport. This is just retarded.
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I'm such a fan. Oh, that's so silly.
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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't want to do it to be clear
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that you like that.
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Speaker 1: I know too much about brain damage and you should too.
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Speaker 2: If you like rugby, I've had too much brain damage
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to know too much about. No, I'm just kidding.
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Speaker 1: But how long did you play rugby for?
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Speaker 2: Well, I grew up in Zimbabwe, and so like Southern Africa,
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rugby is life, right? So it's like probably Deep South
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football kind of culture. So I still play, believe it
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or not, except now I play very intermittently because one
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game puts me out for weeks at a time.
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Speaker 1: Have you ever got your brain examined?
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Speaker 2: No, I have not. But I've only had one concussion
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in my life, so I think I'm okay.
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Speaker 1: Oh, that's silly because you guarantee you'd have subconcussive trauma.
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Speaker 2: What is subconcussive trauma?
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Speaker 1: Well, where you don't go unconscious, but you get rattled
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and then you have some brain damage.
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Speaker 2: You're probably right.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Soccer players get it.
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Speaker 5: Really?
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Soccer players get.
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Speaker 1: Chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Yeah. Soccer players get it.
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Speaker 2: I did not know that.
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Speaker 1: From heading the ball.
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Speaker 2: So is that, and you know a lot about UFC,
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is that brain trauma worse than UFC type trauma?
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Speaker 1: Well, it's all brain trauma, and it's dependent upon many factors.
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It's dependent upon how many times you've been hit, and
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also there's a gene variation. It's APOE4. Is that what
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it is? I think so, yeah. It makes you more
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susceptible to CTE for some.
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Speaker 2: Oh, interesting.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So like because a concussion is when your brain sort
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of impacts against your skull. Is that right?
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Speaker 1: There's that. And I mean, I think it's also it's
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not just that. It's like if you get hit in
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the neck, you can get a concussion. Also. Yeah. Also,
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a lot of people don't realize you can get a
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concussion from getting hit in the body. How does that work?
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Because you get rattled. Yeah. Also, another group of people
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that seem to get CTE are people who ride jet skis.
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Speaker 2: That's wild.
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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
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Speaker 1: So how does that work? Well, my friend Mark Gordon,
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he's a doctor who specializes in traumatic brain injuries and
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treating football players, soldiers, and he's treated some fighters as well.
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He said that any repeated stress, any banging, anything like that, headbanging,
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like if you're a fucking– Headbang?
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Like, you're probably going to get brain damage.
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Speaker 2: No way.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, legitimate brain damage. Interesting. Like, I can't remember what
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I was doing five seconds ago.
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Speaker 3: Wow.
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Speaker 1: Where's my keys? I forget what I'm talking about mid-sentence.
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Speaker 2: Dude, you're scaring me here. These are all things I
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enjoy doing.
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Speaker 1: I enjoy running straight at people full blast. Yeah, I just, like,
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those guys are animals. They're tough guys, no doubt about it.
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Speaker 2: And those Pacific Islanders, like, because those are the guys
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that are doing it primarily, right? Like, they play rugby
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league and stuff. They're built different, man. Oh, yeah. Like,
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they're so hard.
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Speaker 5: It's insane.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember David Tua?
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Speaker 2: No, I'm not familiar.
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Speaker 1: David Tua was a heavyweight boxer back in the day
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who was, like, one of the most ferocious guys that
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ever fought in boxing. And he just built, like, your
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prototypical island warrior guy.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: That's David Tua. Yeah, I mean. Just a tank.
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Speaker 2: You don't want to run into that guy. I'm telling
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you what.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, just a monster. Just would knock people out.
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He knocked out John Ruiz famously in the first round
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in something like 30 seconds or something like that. That
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was crazy.
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Speaker 2: Different breed, man.
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Speaker 1: Crazy left hook. Yeah, that kind of guy. I mean,
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we've got a bunch of— Mark Hunt, who's a famous kickboxer,
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who's another guy built like that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Just wide as a fucking barn.
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Speaker 2: There's, like, no waste. It's just like a brick of human.
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Solid as a rock.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Again, playing rugby, I played rugby against guys like that,
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and it was the worst.
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Speaker 1: Well, those are the dudes that have the balls to
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get in a little tiny boat and make it across
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the fucking ocean.
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Speaker 2: And then kick your ass.
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Speaker 1: That's what it is, really. I mean, think about it. Like,
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only the super robust survived.
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Speaker 2: Right, right.
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Speaker 1: So it's like nature just weeding out any possible weakness.
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Only the strongest human beings made it.
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Speaker 2: Absolute natural selection. It's similar to the African-Americans that we
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have in North America. Like those are the strongest, best
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guys that came over here. Right.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 2: And that's why they're all the most incredible athletes. I
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don't know about all, but you know what I mean.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I know what you're saying.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: There's, I mean, it's, and also like when you look
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at like guys from Iceland, the strong men. Yeah. So
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how many strong men are from Iceland? Well, how many
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fucking Vikings are from Iceland?
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: Right.
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Speaker 1: It's weird when you think about it, that like nature
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finds its way.
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Speaker 2: It's the same thing. It's like we think we're so
9:46
different and above like animals and stuff. It's a natural selection.
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We just bring the biggest, the best and the strongest
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into some area, whether that's Vikings colonizing Iceland or or
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the Samoans on their islands or whatever it happens to be.
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And you're just like, well, here's a superior population. because
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we all the biggest best and strongest have made it
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and all of the weakest have died off isn't that.
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Speaker 1: Weird like you as a guy who studies wildlife biology
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isn't it weird that we want to think of ourselves
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as being a different thing We are clearly not.
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Speaker 2: We're not we're not even at the top. That's the
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thing that people never understand intellectually We are obviously look
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at what we've built, but like we're not even we
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don't even sit at the top of the food chain.
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Speaker 1: But we kind of do because we kill everything else
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if we want to well because because we have yeah,
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but yeah Well, not even our brains really it's other
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people's brains that invented guns It's like it has nothing
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to do with you and me true no that's interesting
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is like our brains or our evolutionary advantage It transfers
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over to people that don't have good genetics. Yeah. Right?
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Because you could be built like a bag of shit,
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like a literal bag of shit, and you can kill
10:49
a grizzly bear with a rifle.
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Speaker 2: That's right. Kind of nuts.
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Speaker 3: Yep.
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Speaker 1: Right? It's crazy. You could just be sitting there on
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a ridge with a scope, and boom, and you kill
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a 1,200-pound Kodiak brown bear.
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Speaker 2: Because all of our biological energy goes into this thing
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instead of being physically big or intimidating or– Any of
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those other things.
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Speaker 1: Also, we can transfer what we figured out onto other people.
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which is no other animals ever figured out how to
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do that.
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Speaker 4: Nope.
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Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy?
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Speaker 1: Wild.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: It's really wild.
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Speaker 4: Yep.
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Speaker 1: It's when you think about it, it's like, what, what,
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if you were studying us, if you were coming from
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another planet and you were studying us, you'd be like, wow,
11:24
this one animal is fucking weird. Yeah. This one, this
11:28
one's doing something different.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
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Speaker 1: But they would still look at us and go, oh, well,
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they're definitely animals. Like, look at them.
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. If you looked at the earth from an
11:37
earth shot, you'd look at what we've done and be like,
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this is the top animal, but they're, parasitic and colonizing
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the whole planet and changing things and manipulating things, whereas
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all the other animals are just getting by.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: If we found out that there were actual visiting aliens,
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that there was actual intelligent life from somewhere else visiting us,
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I think a lot of us would probably be like,
12:02
why didn't you help?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
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Speaker 1: Why didn't you come along and say, hey, cut the shit?
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Speaker 2: It reminds me of the, I don't know, did you
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watch South Park ever?
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Speaker 1: Yes.
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Speaker 2: There was an old South Park episode where Earth was
12:13
like a reality show. And it's like, let's see who's
12:16
getting along this week. The zebras are fighting with the
12:18
giraffes and the people are doing this. And it's like,
12:21
we're just like a reality show for the universe where
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you just put a bunch of species. We're like a big,
12:25
big brother situation.
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Speaker 1: Well, we are kind of that for us.
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Speaker 2: Oh, totally.
12:29
Speaker 1: We are– that's what a reality show is. A reality
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show for us is the world.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: You know, Lindsey Graham, did he die in a rocket
12:36
accident or did he die– was he poisoned by Russia?
12:40
Let's tune in to Twitter and find out. You know
12:42
what I mean?
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Speaker 2: Exactly, man.
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Speaker 1: It's hilarious. We are locked in on whatever the fuck
12:48
is happening all over the world all at once. And
12:50
that's one of the weird things about social media now.
12:53
Is that we're constantly being inundated with new things to
12:56
occupy our attention.
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Speaker 2: And we have no attention span to watch anything for
13:01
more than five seconds.
13:02
Speaker 1: But yet at the same time, this is the rise
13:04
of podcasts.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Which are long form. Right.
13:07
Speaker 1: So it's clear that that's not really the case with everybody.
13:11
There's enough people that are interested in actual fascinating things
13:14
and have an attention span. It's just like we're all
13:16
susceptible to the brain rot that comes with just scrolling.
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Speaker 2: It's so hard not– like I've tried to make conscious
13:22
decisions because, you know, you can imagine what my Instagram
13:25
feed looks like, right? It's animal after animal, half of
13:27
it's AI now, whatever. And I still try and make
13:31
a conscious decision to not look at it and I
13:33
find myself just reaching for my phone and doing this.
13:35
It's just– We're wired into it now.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
13:39
Speaker 2: Dopamine hits crazy.
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Speaker 1: And it's not even really rewarding, which is really terrifying
13:43
to me because it's not something that's like really feels great.
13:47
Speaker 2: And you barely retain the information. Like even if you
13:49
watch an educational one where you're like, wow, that was amazing.
13:52
You barely retain that information because it's such a quick
13:55
thing until you're on to the next one, at least
13:56
for me.
13:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a little bit of that in there for sure.
13:59
But I think I've gotten a pretty good algorithm lately.
14:03
So lately, for whatever reason, my algorithm has been really excellent.
14:07
It's really dialed in to where I'm only getting like
14:09
really fascinating things over the last couple of weeks.
14:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:12
Speaker 1: Oh, it's been great.
14:13
Speaker 2: That's way better.
14:13
Speaker 1: And then every now and then some retarded shit comes
14:16
on and I just skip through it real quick and
14:18
I'm like, got to keep this algorithm going good.
14:19
Speaker 2: Or you text me a Bigfoot AI thing. Bigfoot ones
14:23
are so silly. They're so bad.
14:24
Speaker 1: They're so silly. You actually texted me the Bigfoot one. Well,
14:27
it was the same guy.
14:28
Speaker 2: The same guy had texted you back. I was like,
14:31
I don't think so, dude. He's like, this guy raised
14:34
a baby Bigfoot in secrecy for 10 years. It's so bad.
14:37
It's so bad. It's so obvious.
14:38
Speaker 1: It's like a shitty AI photograph of like a blurry
14:42
Polaroid photograph.
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Speaker 2: And then you read the comments and there's like 400
14:46
people going like, oh, my God, I can't believe this happened.
14:48
And you're like, come on.
14:50
Speaker 1: Oh, dude, Duncan and I back in the day, like
14:53
in 2012 or 11, whatever it was, when I did
14:55
that sci-fi show, Joe Rogan questions everything. We went and
14:59
hung out with Bigfoot people. We actually went Bigfoot hunting.
15:02
No way. Oh, yeah. We were with them for a
15:04
couple of days.
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Speaker 2: How was that?
15:05
Speaker 1: In the woods of the Pacific Northwest. It's kind of sad.
15:08
Speaker 5: Yeah.
15:09
Speaker 1: Because the way I describe it, I said, here's what
15:11
you don't find when you go looking for Bigfoot. Black people.
15:15
You're more likely to find Bigfoot than you are black
15:17
people looking for Bigfoot.
15:18
Speaker 2: It's just such a crazy white guy.
15:20
Speaker 1: Unfuckable white guys out in the woods staring at shadows.
15:25
Speaker 2: It's like making something out of nothing. Look at that leaf.
15:28
It must have been here.
15:29
Speaker 1: It's just unfuckable guys. It's really what it is. It's
15:33
it's unfortunately, that's really what it is. It's not that
15:37
there's not. something to the story because I think there
15:40
is something to the story.
15:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
15:42
Speaker 1: I think it's an old story.
15:43
Speaker 2: It dates all the way back to Native Americans, right?
15:46
Speaker 1: Well, not just that. How many, we looked this up before,
15:49
like how many different names there are and I think
15:52
it was more than 50.
15:52
Speaker 3: Yeah.
15:53
Speaker 1: Different Native American names.
15:55
Speaker 2: I was going to ask if you've seen this guy. Yeah,
15:57
that one's great. This guy was dead big.
16:00
Speaker 1: By the way, you imagine sitting that close to that thing,
16:03
how bad that would smell?
16:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's revolting.
16:06
Speaker 1: I mean, that thing's been dead for who knows how long,
16:08
and this guy's just hanging out. Yeah, I'm going to
16:09
take a picture.
16:10
Speaker 2: How do I look?
16:12
Speaker 5: Fun fact, this guy was on your mom's house like
16:13
12 years ago.
16:15
Speaker 2: Was he?
16:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. For what?
16:16
Speaker 5: He's like a fun guy on Instagram. He was a
16:18
dog trainer. That's hilarious. Tom found those videos a long
16:21
time ago, and they brought him in to do a
16:22
podcast with them.
16:24
Speaker 1: No way.
16:25
Speaker 5: I know who this guy is.
16:26
Speaker 1: No way.
16:27
Speaker 5: I don't know why I got into Bigfoot.
16:29
Speaker 1: He has Bigfoot's body. Look how bad that looks. It's
16:33
so bad, dude.
16:35
Speaker 2: Oh, my God. Look at these. Look at that.
16:41
Speaker 1: Look at the smile.
16:42
Speaker 5: I mean, he could be just a full-on satirical troll.
16:45
Speaker 2: Oh, he's sawing into it. Look at this. It's a cake.
16:49
Speaker 1: It's going to turn out. It's going to be like.
16:51
Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
16:52
Speaker 1: He saw it into it.
16:53
Speaker 2: Open it up, Tom.
16:54
Speaker 1: Oh, he found a foot.
16:55
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Very real looking.
16:57
Speaker 1: Very real looking foot.
16:59
Speaker 2: Also, if you can't trust a guy in overalls with
17:01
no shirt, who can you trust?
17:02
Speaker 1: By the way, the guy's in great shape for his age.
17:04
Speaker 3: He is.
17:04
Speaker 1: Looks ripped. He's out there lifting up fake Bigfoots all day.
17:08
Speaker 2: His legs are heavy. I think there was, I.
17:13
Speaker 1: Mean, obviously we know that Gigantopithecus was real, but we
17:16
were reading about this the other day that it seems
17:19
like Gigantopithecus wasn't bipedal. And there was some dispute as
17:23
to whether or not it was bipedal, but apparently there
17:26
are some biologists that are saying, no, it was most
17:29
likely it walked around like an orangutan.
17:31
Speaker 2: Interesting. It was just huge.
17:32
Speaker 1: Oh, wow. Just a huge orangutan-looking thing.
17:35
Speaker 2: No, I've heard of it. I didn't know that it
17:36
wasn't bipedal, though. That's fascinating.
17:38
Speaker 1: I think it's under dispute. I think it's been disputed.
17:41
Speaker 2: That's interesting.
17:42
Speaker 1: It's hard to say. They don't have a lot of bones, right?
17:45
They only have like a few jaw bones and some stuff.
17:48
Speaker 2: Of them.
17:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:49
Speaker 2: Dude, I learned something pretty interesting this last week. So
17:51
I just got back from India, literally flew in here
17:54
from India, and we were doing some elephant rescues with Vantara,
17:58
that big Indian wildlife rescue place. This elephant got hit
18:03
by a car that we went and rescued, so its
18:05
leg was all jacked up. Speaking of non-bipedal things, so...
18:09
You would think just the elephant would walk with a limp. Well,
18:11
having that trunk, it's incredible. They use that trunk as
18:15
a limb. So I was watching this elephant walk. I
18:18
wish I had photos or video to show you, but
18:19
I was watching this elephant walk, and it wouldn't put
18:22
weight on its leg that was hit by the car.
18:24
So it would walk with three legs and its trunk
18:27
as its fourth appendage.
18:28
Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
18:28
Speaker 2: Which is an amazing thing to see because you think
18:30
of the size of an elephant's cranium and its head
18:31
and the weight. And in order to move that distribution
18:34
off of that broken leg, it was using this trunk
18:37
as a limb. It was just it was incredible. It
18:39
was really sad. It was incredible thing to see the
18:42
way they sort of figured out how to maneuver using
18:44
that fifth appendage.
18:46
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on ZipRecruiter. Does the elephant allow people to set its leg?
19:45
Speaker 2: So, you know, in India... Was it broken? I don't know.
19:49
It went so. we went to basically. So I work
19:52
with this place called Ventara, which is the world's largest
19:54
wildlife rescue and rehab center.
19:55
Speaker 3: It's.
19:56
Speaker 2: Unreal, dude. It would blow your mind. I mean, like
19:59
on a whole nother level, all privately funded by Anand Ambani,
20:02
this Indian billionaire guy, the guy who had the huge wedding.
20:04
If you remember that Justin Bieber thing at his wedding
20:06
and stuff. He's a great dude. Him and I are
20:08
buddies now. But so he's funded this world's largest wildlife
20:12
rescue and rehab. It's like it makes the San Diego
20:14
Zoo look like a roadside attraction. I mean, it's like
20:16
crazy big. And so he does all these rescues.
20:19
Speaker 3: Right.
20:19
Speaker 2: So the reason I'm telling you all this is they
20:21
go and respond to these rescues and then take it
20:24
into this gigantic world's biggest animal hospital that they've built.
20:28
So we went and rescued the elephant. And now it's
20:30
probably by today back in Ventara.
20:33
Speaker 4: Yeah.
20:33
Speaker 2: Here you go. And and they'll be treating it. So
20:36
this is long toy. This is the other one. We
20:37
did two rescues. This one was born with splay legs.
20:41
And then went into logging. And so all the weight
20:43
and stuff from logging. See the splay legs on the
20:46
front there?
20:47
Speaker 1: Ouch.
20:47
Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, that was just incredible. But the short
20:51
answer is they do let people treat them because these
20:54
animals are raised in captivity by what's called mahouts, which
20:57
are elephant riders. And the whole dynamic is really fascinating.
21:02
So you grow up with an elephant as a mahout
21:04
in Indian culture. And then there's usually one or two
21:07
mahouts that spend their life dedicated to the elephant. And
21:10
all they do is ride them, log them. They use
21:12
them as tools, but they still love them very much.
21:15
It's just they use them as a tool. Elephants obviously
21:17
aren't made to do that, so they break down over time.
21:20
Speaker 1: So that's why its legs are like that? It's from
21:22
carrying the amount of weight that comes from logging?
21:24
Speaker 2: So that one would have been born with a deformity.
21:27
Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
21:27
Speaker 2: But then years of compounded weight and everything else makes
21:30
its legs like that.
21:31
Speaker 5: Oh.
21:32
Speaker 2: It's crazy. And then, yeah, so we go and we
21:34
take the elephants in plus the mahouts and take them
21:37
all back to Ventara, give the mahouts a full-time job.
21:39
These guys are sleeping on mattresses on the floor, right?
21:41
And then take them back, and it's a whole thing.
21:43
Reform everybody. It's an amazing thing.
21:45
Speaker 4: Yeah.
21:45
Speaker 1: Oh, wow. So when they treat the elephants, like what
21:48
do they do for an elephant that has a broken leg?
21:51
Speaker 2: So most of it's just pain management, right? Because you
21:54
can only get so far. So the one that got hit.
21:56
Speaker 1: By- Can you set them in a cast?
21:59
Speaker 2: Not really. No. I guess it depends on the fracture.
22:02
I'm not a vet, but I guess it depends on
22:03
the fracture. But what they do is they have, and Jamie,
22:06
you might be able to see it. It's incredible. They
22:08
have this giant jacuzzi. Like imagine a jacuzzi the size
22:11
of your building here. for elephants and it's their hydrotherapy pool.
22:15
So these animals that have terrible arthritis or fucked up
22:17
feet or bad legs like that, they just spend all
22:19
day in the water because then there's no weight on
22:21
their limbs.
22:22
Speaker 1: Wow.
22:23
Speaker 2: Which is really cool.
22:24
Speaker 1: Do they have medication, like anti-inflammatories for elephants?
22:28
Speaker 2: Everything, man. This place uses unbelievable Eastern medicine, Western medicine,
22:34
this crazy hospital. There's a lot of guys talking on
22:36
their Instagram, unfortunately, but yeah.
22:38
Speaker 5: This one's got a prosthetic leg.
22:40
Speaker 1: Whoa.
22:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, look at that. Isn't that crazy? So they do
22:43
these amazing things.
22:45
Speaker 1: Oh, fuck, man.
22:47
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a really, really cool place. And we
22:49
get to do some fun stuff. So I was really pleased.
22:52
privileged to be part of those elephant rescues. It's really
22:53
emotional when you see an animal like an elephant that
22:55
has so much like intelligence look you in the eye
22:58
and be like, I'm in so much pain. And then
23:00
you like start to relieve it.
23:01
Speaker 1: It's cool. I went to visit this place in Thailand
23:05
a few years back that has wild elephants. So they're
23:09
wild elephants, but you can ride them and that you
23:12
feed them. So you make friends with them first.
23:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:16
Speaker 1: Like you feed them sugar cane, you hang out with them,
23:18
you pet them.
23:18
Speaker 3: Yep.
23:19
Speaker 1: And then they let you ride them. Yeah. And they
23:20
put their arm out like this. Like, go ahead.
23:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. To walk up, to step up.
23:23
Speaker 1: Like, come on.
23:24
Speaker 2: Go ahead.
23:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it lets you know, like, okay.
23:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:26
Speaker 1: I didn't like the riding part. It felt wrong to me.
23:29
It's a thing that like all the tourists did, but
23:31
my family wanted to do it. So I said, okay.
23:33
Speaker 4: Yeah.
23:34
Speaker 1: But it's okay. But the animals themselves are so sweet.
23:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:38
Speaker 1: Like when you're hanging around with them, they're like, they're so,
23:41
one of them, I got a video of it on
23:43
my Instagram. She was just like eating a log.
23:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:47
Speaker 1: She kept chewing on this log and I'm just hanging
23:49
out with her. And I made this like video with me.
23:51
I'm like, she's eating a log. I don't know why
23:53
she's eating this log, but. They're so cool. She's really sweet.
23:56
But it wasn't, it was, it was a weird, it's
23:59
a weird relationship that they have. And then you wash
24:02
them at the end of the trip. Yeah. So you
24:04
get them in the, they get in this pool, this
24:06
big pond.
24:06
Speaker 2: Yep.
24:07
Speaker 1: And you could just wash them and hang out with them.
24:08
Scrub them.
24:09
Speaker 2: They like it that you do that. Yeah.
24:10
Speaker 1: So it feels good to them and. They're like, thank you. Well, no,
24:13
thank you for carrying me.
24:15
Speaker 2: There's good and bad. It's like, I mean, elephants have
24:17
been used through history, right? In war, in logging and circuses,
24:21
everything else. But now I would say in the last
24:23
20 years, we're finally sort of waking up to, Hey,
24:26
a lifetime of being on an elephant's back. Like you
24:28
can see the deformities, you can see the bed sores,
24:30
you can see the hip displays or hip issues.
24:32
Speaker 1: Oh, from carrying people?
24:34
Speaker 2: Yeah. They're just not designed for it. You know, they look,
24:37
you think they are when you look at them and
24:38
you're like, what could have, you know, we're like an
24:40
ant on that thing's back, but it, It's pretty hard
24:43
on them. And the hardest part is actually not you
24:45
or I or anybody riding them. It's walking on concrete
24:48
because elephants have these soft padded feet. They're not designed
24:52
for rock hard ground. So the impact of walking on
24:56
pavement is actually that compounding with added weight. That's what's
25:00
actually so bad.
25:01
Speaker 1: I bet the heat of the asphalt, too. And they're
25:05
dogs like dogs hate the heat of asphalt. It's horrible
25:08
for them.
25:09
Speaker 2: And the weirdest thing about an elephant foot, if you
25:11
look at its anatomy, they're one of the few animals
25:12
that walk on their toes. So they don't have toes
25:15
splitting out like we do. They walk on top of
25:17
their toes. So that, you know, imagine that compounding on
25:21
heat plus weight.
25:24
Speaker 5: Close up, I guess. Weird.
25:26
Speaker 1: It's a weird animal.
25:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're cool.
25:28
Speaker 1: Isn't it cool that they thought that that's what a
25:30
cyclops was when they found the skulls?
25:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, because of the skull. Yeah, isn't that amazing?
25:33
Speaker 1: That's why they thought cyclopses were a real thing.
25:35
Speaker 2: Dude, have you ever seen, have you ever been to
25:37
the Explorers Club in New York City?
25:38
Speaker 1: No.
25:39
Speaker 2: That's worth a visit.
25:40
Speaker 1: You would love it.
25:40
Speaker 2: They have the Champawat tiger there, like the most famous
25:43
man eating tiger skin.
25:44
Speaker 1: Oh, that's the one that killed like 476 people? Yep.
25:47
Is that what the number? Something crazy like that, right?
25:48
Speaker 2: I actually have it on my YouTube and I don't
25:50
remember the name.
25:51
Speaker 1: It's more than 400 people, right?
25:53
Speaker 2: It's crazy. And then Jim Corbett went and shot it. Right, right.
25:55
And he almost named my son Corbett because I love
25:57
that story so much. But they have the only four-tusked
26:01
elephant at the Explorers Club in New York City.
26:04
Speaker 1: Whoa.
26:04
Speaker 2: I'm sure, Jamie, you could find a picture of the skull.
26:06
Nobody knows why. Total anomaly. Nobody's ever seen it. Nobody
26:10
knows why. I think it's the only one in existence,
26:12
and it literally has four tusks coming out of it.
26:15
Speaker 1: Just a weird genetic thing?
26:16
Speaker 2: I think so. Like that splay-legged one we look like.
26:18
Speaker 1: Because sometimes with elk, they'll get an injury when they're young,
26:23
and then they'll get weird deformities of their antlers.
26:26
Speaker 2: But is that different because they shed their antlers every
26:29
year so they grow back in weird ways?
26:31
Speaker 1: That's a good question.
26:31
Speaker 5: I don't know.
26:32
Speaker 1: I think it's an injury to the skull.
26:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:36
Speaker 1: So an injury to like the area where the antler is.
26:38
Like sometimes they'll just have one sword.
26:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:41
Speaker 1: Like there was a ranch in California that had this
26:45
one elk that was killing all the other elk because
26:49
he didn't have antlers the same way. Oh, they got
26:51
a Yeti skull. Where did you find that, Jamie? It's
26:53
one of those.
26:54
Speaker 5: The 11 big interesting things you can see there.
26:56
Speaker 2: Oh, at the Explorers Club? Oh, at the Explorers Club. Oh, interesting.
26:58
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure that's legit. So this one elk had,
27:04
on one side, he had, like, normal antlers.
27:07
Speaker 5: Uh-huh.
27:07
Speaker 1: But the other side, he just had a spear.
27:09
Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
27:09
Speaker 2: That's cool.
27:09
Speaker 1: And so he was just stabbing all these other elk.
27:11
Speaker 2: And he was killing the other elk.
27:12
Speaker 1: What the fuck is this guy doing?
27:13
Speaker 3: Wow.
27:13
Speaker 1: Because he wasn't, like, they're used to their antlers interlocking.
27:17
Speaker 2: Of course, yeah.
27:17
Speaker 1: And this is the thing. They get together and they clash.
27:19
Speaker 2: Of course.
27:20
Speaker 1: They try to impress the ladies.
27:21
Speaker 4: Yep.
27:21
Speaker 2: Well, There he is.
27:23
Speaker 1: Look at that. The tusks.
27:24
Speaker 2: Isn't that so weird?
27:25
Speaker 1: Very weird.
27:26
Speaker 4: Four.
27:27
Speaker 1: And they're like weird the way they're going towards each other.
27:31
Speaker 5: It's weird.
27:31
Speaker 2: Which makes you realize it's a genetic deformity, right? Because
27:34
it's not like this perfect symmetrical like nature made it.
27:37
It's just a mutation of some kind.
27:40
Speaker 1: Well, that's what's weird about genes, right? Like things go
27:42
wonky all the time. Someone's born with an extra arm.
27:44
You're like, okay.
27:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
27:45
Speaker 1: Sometimes people are born with tails and you're like, ooh.
27:48
Speaker 3: Yeah.
27:49
Speaker 2: So weird. Dude, you and I talked about Barbarossa one time,
27:53
the pigs that have those crazy.
27:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, they go into their own skulls.
27:56
Speaker 2: My buddy, who's a vet, he just cut a horn
27:59
out of a sable, a sable antelope that was growing
28:02
into its own skull.
28:03
Speaker 1: Oh, God.
28:04
Speaker 2: I have a video of it on my Instagram, Jamie,
28:05
if you want to see it. So it got an injury,
28:09
so it killed part of the horn. And, you know,
28:10
they're antelope. They're not deer, so they don't shed their horns.
28:14
So they grow forever.
28:14
Speaker 3: Right.
28:15
Speaker 2: So this guy had this giant horn just circling back,
28:18
punching into its own skull. Can you imagine that? Dude,
28:22
it was gnarly.
28:24
Speaker 1: The pigs are nuts, though, or whatever that animal's called.
28:27
Speaker 2: The babirusa.
28:28
Speaker 1: Is it a pig? It's technically a pig?
28:30
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
28:30
Speaker 2: It's like an Indonesian warthog.
28:32
Speaker 1: But the way it goes into its own skull, no
28:34
matter what, it always happens.
28:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they have to fight and break them off.
28:38
And if they don't fight and break them off, nature's
28:41
so weird, man.
28:42
Speaker 1: I mean, that is fucking crazy.
28:44
Speaker 2: They're so cool.
28:45
Speaker 1: I wonder what those things taste like.
28:47
Speaker 2: I bet they taste great. I think all the swine
28:49
tastes great.
28:50
Speaker 1: I had javelina, which is not technically a swine. It's
28:54
a peccary. It wasn't that good.
28:56
Speaker 2: Not good?
28:57
Speaker 3: No.
28:58
Speaker 4: Huh.
28:58
Speaker 2: That's unfortunate.
28:59
Speaker 1: It's odd. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, oh. No, just not
29:02
the best. Well, you got to think of what they're eating.
29:06
Speaker 2: From what I know about halflings, they eat garbage primarily.
29:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. Because that's
29:11
the case with bears, right? Like my friend Steve Rinella
29:17
cooked a bear steak or a bear ham on his
29:21
friend's smoker. And he said to his friend, he said, hey,
29:25
you should probably clean that smoker. It smells like fish.
29:29
He goes, I've never cooked fish in that smoker once
29:32
and it was just from the bear the bear had
29:35
eaten so much fish that as he was smoking the
29:38
bear all you could smell was fish That's disgusting.
29:41
Speaker 2: It's like eating a seagull.
29:42
Speaker 1: Whoa, look at this one. It's going right into its head.
29:44
Speaker 2: That's the guy.
29:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that crazy? Wow, that's nuts.
29:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, he cuts the horn off, and you can see,
29:51
because the horn's a living thing.
29:52
Speaker 1: How is that animal still alive? Barely. Barely.
29:55
Speaker 2: Like he had millimeters of growth to go before it
29:58
punched right into his brain. That's crazy. Isn't that gnarly?
30:02
Speaker 1: That's so gnarly. It's like digging in. Imagine that like
30:06
every day just a tiny little amount more is growing
30:10
into your brain.
30:11
Speaker 2: It's got to be this constant pain where like it
30:14
just gets a tiny bit worse all the time.
30:16
Speaker 1: Kind of sawn through it.
30:17
Speaker 2: See how much into the skull it went? Like it
30:19
was right there.
30:20
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
30:21
Speaker 2: That's so gross. I thought you'd like that.
30:24
Speaker 1: I don't know what that says about me. You thought
30:26
that I would like that.
30:27
Speaker 2: I don't know.
30:28
Speaker 1: That is gnarly, man. That poor dude, now he doesn't
30:31
have any antlers.
30:32
Speaker 2: Yep.
30:33
Speaker 1: Or horns, right? Is it technically horns?
30:35
Speaker 2: Horns, yeah. But he's still got a brain, so that helps.
30:37
Speaker 1: Well, carry on, bro.
30:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
30:40
Speaker 1: Nature's a motherfucker, dude.
30:42
Speaker 2: Dude, it's crazy.
30:43
Speaker 1: Where's the thylacine, man? What's going on?
30:46
Speaker 2: It's gotten pretty cold. Really? Yeah.
30:48
Speaker 1: Damn it. I was hoping you'd come in with new evidence.
30:52
Speaker 2: I wish I was. There's a group that I've been
30:54
working with called Mammal Watching, like if you heard of
30:56
bird watching. And they've been going into Western Papua and
30:59
Papua New Guinea, which is, as you know, where I
31:01
think there could still be a tiny population. And so
31:05
I'm working with them. They're giving trail cameras out to guys.
31:07
They're still hearing legends here and there, but it's just,
31:10
I don't know, it feels like the legends are getting
31:13
fewer and further between, like almost over generational time. It's disappearing,
31:18
if that makes sense.
31:18
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a bad sign.
31:19
Speaker 4: Yeah.
31:20
Speaker 1: That means whatever's left is probably dying off, right?
31:23
Speaker 2: If at all.
31:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
31:24
Speaker 2: And I mean, I still hold out hope. It's something
31:26
I've always wanted to be. And I like I want
31:28
it to be there. But it just it feels like
31:31
those bits of evidence that were compounding have all sort
31:35
of started to fade.
31:36
Speaker 1: That sucks.
31:37
Speaker 2: I know.
31:37
Speaker 1: It is a very interesting thing with the incredible variety
31:41
of wildlife that we have that we're so fascinated by
31:44
the ones that might not be alive. The things like
31:48
the thylacine or the giant sloth.
31:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
31:50
Speaker 1: I remember I watched this documentary on the giant sloth.
31:54
There was this one scientist, this biologist who had spent
31:57
an inordinate amount of time, like years in the Amazon
32:02
looking for a giant sloth and was realizing at some
32:05
point in time during the documentary that he might have
32:07
ruined his career.
32:08
Speaker 2: Overdoing it.
32:08
Speaker 1: Because he might have been chasing something that doesn't exist.
32:11
And it's this wild gamble. If he listens to these
32:14
people and they're telling him the truth. Right. Because all
32:16
the natives are like, oh, yeah, bro, they're out here.
32:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right around the next turn. We'll find
32:21
him tomorrow.
32:21
Speaker 1: Right over the next mountain.
32:22
Speaker 2: We'll be good. I've been there. But, you know, if
32:25
you don't follow those leads, like, do you know what
32:27
the saula is? The Asian unicorn?
32:29
Speaker 1: I've heard that. Yeah.
32:30
Speaker 2: Same thing. Same story, but real animal. And, you know,
32:33
there was basically one ever seen by Western science, an
32:37
animal named Martha. And for years, scientists, Western scientists were
32:41
going into Vietnam and Laos. They're going, yeah, we have
32:43
this thing called the Sala, the Asian unicorn. And they're like,
32:45
shut up. You know, and then all of a sudden
32:47
turns out here's this giant bovid that still exists.
32:50
Speaker 1: What a cool looking animal, too. Yeah.
32:52
Speaker 2: And nobody knows whether they still exist now or not.
32:54
Speaker 1: Is that it right there?
32:55
Speaker 2: That's it.
32:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
32:56
Speaker 2: So basically, there's been three or four, maybe more that
32:59
have ever been seen. Most of them caught in poacher
33:02
snares like this one. But then really cool guy named
33:05
Bill Robichaud. got a call once from a prince and
33:08
he had caught one and it was in his village
33:10
and he flew in there and overnight the poor thing died.
33:14
And that was the only time a single Westerner in
33:16
history has ever seen a live Sala.
33:19
Speaker 5: Oh wow.
33:19
Speaker 2: And this guy had it. And then, and then he's like,
33:21
can we please preserve it? And the King was like, nah,
33:22
we're going to eat it.
33:23
Speaker 1: And they ate it.
33:25
Speaker 4: Whoa.
33:25
Speaker 2: Got nothing out of it. Yeah. He's got pictures and stuff. So,
33:28
you know, it's all, it's all real, but they call
33:30
it the unicorn because its horns are so symmetrical that
33:33
that when you look at it from a side profile,
33:35
it looks like one horn.
33:36
Speaker 1: Coming out of its head. Oh, like that.
33:38
Speaker 2: Exactly, yeah.
33:39
Speaker 1: That's weird. Yeah.
33:41
Speaker 2: They're very cool. But it's a bovid. It's a cattle.
33:44
That's not one. I don't know why they're using that photo.
33:47
Speaker 1: Oh, how odd.
33:48
Speaker 4: Yeah.
33:49
Speaker 2: But that's the same thing as these, you know, these
33:51
things around giant sloths and thylacine and Bigfoot and everything else.
33:56
They are out there, you know, some of them, not
33:58
all of them, but they are out there. And if
33:59
you don't follow the lead, if you ignore it, then
34:01
you miss things like that.
34:02
Speaker 1: Well, there's also, like, When you think about things like
34:05
the Amazon, like if you ever see footage of the
34:08
Amazon from above, you go, oh. There's no way you know.
34:12
Speaker 2: That's so big.
34:13
Speaker 1: You look down and you go, oh, well, there's no
34:15
way you know.
34:15
Speaker 3: No.
34:16
Speaker 1: This is way too big. There's no way there's a
34:19
bunch of people scouring every inch of that place.
34:22
Speaker 2: I mean, given there are still groups of human beings uncontacted.
34:25
Speaker 1: Oh, a lot.
34:26
Speaker 5: A lot.
34:26
Speaker 1: My friend Paul Rosely. Yeah, I know Paul.
34:28
Speaker 4: Yeah.
34:28
Speaker 1: He's come in contact with them multiple times.
34:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
34:31
Speaker 1: See if you can get some aerial footage of flying
34:34
over the Amazon. I mean, it's in multiple countries. What
34:39
is it?
34:39
Speaker 2: Oh, it's crazy.
34:39
Speaker 1: Peru, Bolivia.
34:41
Speaker 2: Brazil. Argentina. It's crazy.
34:44
Speaker 1: It's so big.
34:45
Speaker 2: It's huge.
34:46
Speaker 1: It's so fucking big.
34:48
Speaker 2: And I had a similar experience in New Guinea, talking
34:50
about thylacine, where we got on a plane in a
34:52
place called Tufi and flew to another area.
34:54
Speaker 1: Okay, look at this.
34:55
Speaker 2: It was just like this. For four hours, we didn't
34:56
see one building.
34:58
Speaker 1: Amazon and 4K. So just imagine, like, there is no
35:01
fucking way you know what's in there. No way. There's
35:04
probably a bunch of shit in there that no one
35:06
has found.
35:07
Speaker 2: And then there's, oh, undeniably there are. And then there's stuff,
35:11
you know, like, you'll get a kick out of this,
35:13
Loch Ness Monster. What do you think it is?
35:17
Speaker 1: Maybe a sturgeon or something like that.
35:19
Speaker 2: Jamie, what do you think a Loch Ness Monster is?
35:21
Speaker 5: I mean, I think they know, but I don't know.
35:25
Speaker 2: Whale dick.
35:26
Speaker 1: What? Whale dick. Whale dick?
35:28
Speaker 2: Whale dick.
35:28
Speaker 1: Not a narwhal dick?
35:29
Speaker 2: Pull it up. Locknest monster versus whale dick. Look at
35:33
this and tell me this isn't what they think is
35:34
the locknest monster.
35:35
Speaker 1: Wait a minute. Do you mean like the photos, the
35:38
hoax photo of the one that's poking out of the water?
35:41
Speaker 2: That one, I mean, you'll see it in a second here,
35:43
I think. But there are these photos of a whale's
35:46
penis compared to the Loch Ness Monster. And, I mean,
35:50
that's certainly not proof, but it kind of answers a
35:53
lot of, like, that's a whale dick right there.
35:56
Speaker 1: That is a whale dick. But that photo, I'm pretty sure,
35:59
is a proven hoax.
36:01
Speaker 2: That one is.
36:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that photo was like a guy made
36:05
something out of wood and floated it in the water
36:08
and took a picture. Is that what the story behind
36:09
that is?
36:10
Speaker 2: There's something along those lines.
36:12
Speaker 1: No, Loch Ness Monster isn't a whale penis, professor says.
36:15
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Well, if the internet professor says it, then.
36:19
Speaker 1: Oh, a professor. Oh, well, let's take him seriously.
36:23
Speaker 2: He's out there.
36:23
Speaker 5: There's no whales there.
36:24
Speaker 1: If you're the type of professor that they call upon
36:27
when they're trying to figure out if something's a whale dick, Maybe.
36:31
Speaker 2: Sir, would you please study these nine whale penis and
36:33
tell us your thoughts on this?
36:34
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what happened to the.
36:36
Speaker 3: What?
36:36
Speaker 5: It was his claim. And then he said he was
36:38
just kind of messing around.
36:40
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sticking with it.
36:41
Speaker 5: I like it.
36:41
Speaker 2: I like the whale.
36:42
Speaker 1: He's the guy that proposed it?
36:44
Speaker 4: Yeah.
36:44
Speaker 1: Oh.
36:45
Speaker 3: Oh.
36:45
Speaker 2: Darn it. I like that theory. He's walked back.
36:48
Speaker 1: His salacious claim. That's so funny. Maybe that's the guy
36:51
that was looking for the giant sloth. He's like, I
36:55
need a new angle. This giant sloth thing did not
36:57
pan out. I like it.
36:59
Speaker 2: Big dick energy.
37:00
Speaker 1: If you're a guy looking for a giant sloth in
37:02
the Amazon, where do you look? Good luck finding it.
37:06
Speaker 2: You have to find geographically isolated areas. Because they're little pockets, right?
37:11
Little pockets of... OK, people aren't coming in here. Animals
37:15
aren't going out. There's a big ring of mountains. There's
37:18
whatever it happens to be. I met a guy who
37:21
said he guaranteed he knew, you know, all these people
37:24
like this. But I always enjoy the story of it,
37:26
that there was this pocket in Peru that was completely
37:29
geographically isolated by the mountains. And that's where they were.
37:32
And the idea is that these areas remain unchanged.
37:35
Speaker 3: Right.
37:35
Speaker 2: It's like an island, basically.
37:37
Speaker 4: Right.
37:37
Speaker 2: In the Amazon, like things just don't change because it's
37:40
so isolated from everything else.
37:42
Speaker 1: Well, I think the idea also is that giant sloths
37:45
where we know they existed in North America, that whenever
37:51
whatever happened that ended the Ice Age, the Younger Dryas impact.
37:56
That it didn't affect things below the equator or at
37:59
the equator. It was more of a northern hemisphere thing.
38:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the climate shift was so much stronger.
38:04
Speaker 1: Exactly. And so most of the animals that died off,
38:08
if you look at like the, I think it was
38:11
65% of North American megafauna died off during this very
38:14
short window.
38:14
Speaker 2: Yep.
38:16
Speaker 1: That didn't happen.
38:17
Speaker 3: Right.
38:17
Speaker 1: In South America.
38:18
Speaker 3: Right.
38:18
Speaker 1: And that we're just guessing that they're dead.
38:21
Speaker 3: Yep.
38:22
Speaker 1: Because if there was a healthy population, like think how
38:24
many tigers are there in the wild? I think there's 5,000.
38:27
Speaker 2: Something like that. Yeah. It's gone way up, by the way.
38:30
It was down to 400.
38:32
Speaker 1: Fun fact. More tigers in captivity in Texas.
38:35
Speaker 5: I know.
38:35
Speaker 1: Than there are in all of the wild of the world.
38:39
Speaker 2: Texas is crazy, man. It's such a wild.
38:42
Speaker 1: Just in people's yards.
38:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:44
Speaker 1: In private collections in Texas, there's more tigers. And all
38:48
of the wild of the world.
38:50
Speaker 2: It's such an insane statement. That should not exist.
38:52
Speaker 3: Yeah.
38:53
Speaker 1: I love this state.
38:55
Speaker 2: It's my favorite place ever. Get away with it.
38:56
Speaker 1: It's just a wild place. Like, for all intents and purposes.
39:01
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's hilarious.
39:03
Speaker 1: Wild for people.
39:04
Speaker 2: Dude, I love Texas. Every time I come to Texas,
39:06
I'm like, this place is great.
39:07
Speaker 1: It's awesome.
39:07
Speaker 2: I always have fun. Everybody's so nice, too.
39:09
Speaker 1: Exactly.
39:10
Speaker 2: That's the best part. It's like nobody scowls at you.
39:12
You get in the elevator and they're like, hey, how's
39:13
your day going? And you're like.
39:15
Speaker 1: Very friendly people.
39:15
Speaker 2: I'll tell you how it's going.
39:18
Speaker 1: A lot of people, especially coastal elites, I would like
39:23
to say like people, coastal snobs, they have this idea
39:27
of it being like filled with rednecks and ignorant people.
39:30
and foolish people. It's not that way at all, especially Austin.
39:34
Austin is like one of the most like liberal, easygoing,
39:38
progressive cities. But like even the progressives here, they're like
39:43
more reasonable.
39:44
Speaker 2: It's like down to earth. It's not like extremism, right?
39:47
Speaker 1: Well, they're definitely more crazy than they were 20 years
39:50
ago when I first started coming here.
39:51
Speaker 2: Okay.
39:51
Speaker 1: But way less crazy than like liberals in LA. Yeah.
39:56
Or liberals in New York.
39:58
Speaker 2: Just where it's just extreme, right? Like protests and all these.
40:01
Speaker 1: Well, it's like there's a saying about Austin, keep Austin
40:06
weird and surrounded.
40:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
40:08
Speaker 2: And surrounded?
40:08
Speaker 5: Yeah.
40:09
Speaker 2: What is the and surrounded?
40:10
Speaker 1: Surrounded by red people. Like it's all red states around you.
40:14
And it's this pocket of blue that's in the center
40:16
of this red state. I think that's good for everybody.
40:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:21
Speaker 1: I think that's good. It's a balance. And like the
40:25
liberals that want to turn Texas blue, like don't. You're
40:29
going to ruin it. You're going to ruin it for
40:30
you too. You don't get it. Like balance is important.
40:34
It's like. You can't kill all the predators because then
40:37
the deer get overrun and you're hitting them with cars.
40:40
And you can't kill all the deer because then there's
40:43
no food. I mean that's what they did when they
40:46
were market hunting.
40:47
Speaker 2: Balance.
40:48
Speaker 1: And you need balance with humans too. 100%. And the
40:51
Austin balance is a great balance. It's a liberal city
40:54
surrounded by like hardcore Republicans with guns and tigers. And
40:58
it works.
40:59
Speaker 2: And it all works.
41:00
Speaker 3: It works.
41:01
Speaker 1: It makes for nice people. It's like it's a good mix.
41:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:05
Speaker 1: And a misunderstood mix.
41:07
Speaker 2: That's interesting.
41:08
Speaker 1: People on the outside, they have a very distorted perception
41:12
of what Texas is, especially Austin.
41:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, how do you feel as a California– I mean,
41:17
you bounced around, but as a California transplant, did you
41:20
bring your acai bowls and you're like, I need all
41:22
that California stuff here? What stuff?
41:24
Speaker 1: What stuff? I don't know.
41:25
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. That's the thing, though, right?
41:28
It's like, oh, the Californians coming here and messing it
41:30
up kind of thing.
41:31
Speaker 1: I was never one of those. So what I got
41:34
out of California was the comedy store and work. Yeah.
41:37
And then jujitsu. So you get all that here. Austin
41:41
is arguably the jujitsu capital of the world right now. Really? Oh, yeah.
41:44
Speaker 2: Oh, that's interesting. Is this where the new league is
41:46
based out of?
41:47
Speaker 1: No. You mean the UFC league?
41:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:50
Speaker 1: No, that's in Vegas. They do that in Vegas because
41:53
that's where the UFC's headquarters are. But Austin has King's World,
41:57
which is Gordon Ryan's place. It's got B-Team is out here.
42:02
Speaker 2: Sean G.
42:03
Speaker 1: Ribeiro is out here. There's a bunch of Gracie Baja
42:07
schools out here. There's multiple 10th Planet schools out here.
42:11
It's like there's an incredible amount of jiu-jitsu out here.
42:14
Speaker 2: So what I'm hearing is this is where to bring
42:16
Run Nation. Bring it to Austin.
42:18
Speaker 1: No, keep that. They'll never win.
42:20
Speaker 2: The only people that.
42:21
Speaker 1: Are going to win are those wild New Zealand dudes
42:23
and those Australian guys. Those guys will win every time.
42:27
They're built for that shit.
42:28
Speaker 3: No.
42:29
Speaker 1: But it's just a great city, period. Artistically, it's always
42:34
been like a great music city. Now it's arguably the
42:37
comedy capital of the country.
42:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's so many comedians here now, right?
42:41
Speaker 1: Because they got here and they went, oh, this is
42:43
way better. There's no traffic. No one's nice.
42:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
42:46
Speaker 1: And you can do whatever you want. And also, there's
42:48
a lot of places to do comedy.
42:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
42:50
Speaker 1: Just on my street where my club is, there's five
42:53
or six other clubs that have opened up since we
42:55
opened up.
42:56
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
42:56
Speaker 1: That's amazing. So it's incredible. So if you're a young
42:58
comic or an established comic that just wants to work
43:01
out material, you could go to my club. You hop
43:04
down the street to the Sunset Room, which is my
43:06
friend Brian's club, right down the street. And you can
43:08
go down the street to the Creek in the Cave,
43:10
an amazing club that's just two seconds away.
43:13
Speaker 2: Oh, cool.
43:13
Speaker 1: It's like one block over.
43:15
Speaker 5: That's amazing.
43:15
Speaker 1: Everything's close. The Vulcan, which is right there. Everything's right there.
43:18
Speaker 2: It's incredible.
43:20
Speaker 1: It's incredible.
43:20
Speaker 2: It's great. I'm glad you're so stoked here. I remember
43:23
when the first– maybe the second time we hung out
43:27
down at your show in– not Westlake. Where was it?
43:29
Woodland Hills, right?
43:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
43:30
Speaker 2: And you were like, dude, I got to get out
43:31
of here. Yeah.
43:34
Speaker 1: I wanted to get out a long time ago.
43:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:36
Speaker 1: And fun fact, we started the podcast because I was
43:40
depressed because I had to move back from Colorado.
43:43
Speaker 3: Oh, really?
43:43
Speaker 1: So I lived in Colorado for a little bit.
43:44
Speaker 4: Okay.
43:44
Speaker 1: But my wife got pregnant. And when she was pregnant,
43:48
it was like if you are an altitude– we were
43:51
at 8,500 feet above sea level. Yeah, that's high. It's rough.
43:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
43:54
Speaker 1: And we went back to LA for a short period
43:56
of time and she was fine.
43:58
Speaker 4: Yeah.
43:58
Speaker 1: And then we went back to Colorado and she was
44:00
sick again.
44:01
Speaker 2: I was like, okay.
44:01
Speaker 1: And then we were reading about low birth weight. Premature
44:05
birth is a lot of like really bad things that
44:08
happen to people, especially if you're not acclimated. So you
44:10
move to these high altitude areas. By the way, working
44:16
out there when I worked out there, I was, I
44:19
thought I was going to die. And then I went
44:21
to Philadelphia. And I had to do some gigs in Philadelphia.
44:27
And I worked out. And I felt like I could
44:29
run through a wall.
44:30
Speaker 2: You just had so much oxygen in your blood. So much.
44:33
Speaker 1: I was like, this is incredible. It's the only time
44:35
in my life I've ever been altitude adjusted.
44:38
Speaker 4: Yeah.
44:38
Speaker 1: Like where my body had adapted.
44:40
Speaker 4: Yeah.
44:40
Speaker 1: And I was like, this is a massive advantage. No
44:43
wonder why fighters do it.
44:44
Speaker 2: And you don't acclimate being up at that height over
44:47
months or anything else?
44:48
Speaker 1: Oh, I did. I certainly did. Like I could work
44:49
out there. And I used to– I did jujitsu in Boulder.
44:54
So Boulder was– I was in a place called Gold Hill,
44:57
which is 8,500 feet above sea level, and Boulder is
45:00
like 55. Okay. So I was doing– shout out to
45:03
Amal Easton. My friend Amal, he has a jiu-jitsu gym
45:06
in Boulder. Great place. And when I was training there,
45:08
it was fine. I mean, you train, but you definitely
45:10
could feel it. I had trained there once before when
45:14
I had come from L.A. And I was like, whew,
45:16
this altitude is rough. It's like working out in Denver.
45:18
You're like, whew, you feel it. But not like you
45:20
feel it at 8,500 feet. 8,500 feet was– I do
45:21
this– these kettlebell workouts and I was doing it and
45:28
I'm used to what it does. Like I'm used to be,
45:31
and I was like, this is crazy. This feels like
45:33
I'm drunk.
45:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
45:34
Speaker 1: Like it felt, you know what I mean?
45:35
Speaker 2: Just had nothing in the tank. It felt like, it really.
45:37
Speaker 1: Felt like I drank a bottle of whiskey and tried
45:38
to work out. I was so tired.
45:40
Speaker 2: I went to the Himalayas like maybe four or five
45:42
years ago to look for red pandas up in the trees.
45:44
You know, those cute little guys. And day one, I
45:48
literally maybe made it 400 feet and then had to
45:51
sit down. And I was like, all right, we're trekking
45:53
for pandas. We're heading up into the mountains. We'll find
45:55
these pandas. I don't remember what the elevation was, but
45:58
I'd come from Santa Barbara, where I live, which is
46:00
sea level, to the high Himalayas. And I had to
46:04
sit down like every 15 minutes for the first couple days.
46:07
Speaker 1: I saw the most horrifying video the other day of
46:10
this guy who was on one of those summit hikes
46:16
and slipped. Oh, no. His friends watched him slide.
46:20
Speaker 2: Like all the way down to his death?
46:21
Speaker 1: Just sliding down ice and snow and couldn't stop. And
46:27
they just had to stand there and watch this guy
46:30
slide away.
46:30
Speaker 2: What can you do?
46:31
Speaker 1: Nothing.
46:32
Speaker 2: That's so crazy. Was he climbing?
46:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. He was making it to the summit and slipped.
46:38
Speaker 3: Yeah.
46:38
Speaker 5: It's brutal.
46:39
Speaker 1: And slipped off the, you know, just a very clear
46:42
path and slipped off of it and just started sliding.
46:45
And you realize, oh, he's gone. That's it. He's going
46:48
to go off forever.
46:49
Speaker 2: Forever. That's crazy.
46:51
Speaker 1: Oh, it's horrible.
46:51
Speaker 2: And I always want to like take my kids to
46:53
do these things with me, you know, and I'm like, oh,
46:55
I want to take them to track and see the
46:56
mountains and catch crocodiles and do all these various things
46:59
that I like to do. And you realize it's like
47:01
my six-year-old can barely walk in a straight line without
47:04
falling down. You know what I mean? Like imagine taking
47:06
him on a mountain track.
47:07
Speaker 1: Oh, that's so scary. But on the other hand, like
47:10
you don't want to protect them too much. You want
47:12
to expose them to a certain amount of danger because
47:15
I think it's good for them.
47:16
Speaker 2: It's good for them to see. Yeah.
47:18
Speaker 1: It's good for them to experience. It's also good. For
47:20
them to have like a broader understanding of what the
47:25
world is.
47:26
Speaker 2: Right.
47:26
Speaker 1: Like the world is a bunch of different things.
47:28
Speaker 2: That's right.
47:29
Speaker 1: It's not just Santa Monica.
47:30
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah.
47:32
Speaker 1: Oh, there's Costa Rica. Yeah. Oh, this is great. Look
47:34
at these bugs. These are nuts like birds. Like there's
47:37
it's nice.
47:38
Speaker 2: It's important.
47:39
Speaker 1: It's it.
47:39
Speaker 2: Yeah. Because otherwise we live in a bubble like America
47:42
is great. I say this to my wife all the time.
47:44
I'm so patriotic. I love this country.
47:47
Speaker 1: It's great.
47:47
Speaker 2: But it's a bubble. Yeah. Everything's easy. It's safe. You
47:50
can order shit on your phone. It shows up at
47:52
your house. You know, there's a million restaurants to pick from. Obviously,
47:55
it depends where you live, but you get my point.
47:56
Speaker 1: Yes.
47:57
Speaker 2: And then you get out of here and it's like, okay,
47:59
everything closes at 4 p.m. Like, go figure out your food.
48:02
You know what I mean? And then you're like, okay, well,
48:03
now I have two kids who are hungry and we're
48:06
in the jungle or it's, you know, in a town
48:08
that everything shuts down on Sundays or whatever. It's like,
48:10
figure it out. Those are important lessons for little kids
48:13
to be dynamic and figure out, like, how the rest
48:16
of the world works and that they have to Figure
48:18
out how to get things when it's not all just
48:20
at the touch of your, you know, phone.
48:22
Speaker 1: Also to recognize that there's going to be times where
48:24
you don't have food.
48:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
48:26
Speaker 1: Like people are just so accustomed to having food anytime
48:29
they're hungry. And in fact, sometimes when they're not even hungry,
48:31
they're just bored. So they start stuffing their face when
48:34
they're bored.
48:34
Speaker 2: 100%.
48:35
Speaker 1: Never existed in all of human history.
48:37
Speaker 5: No.
48:38
Speaker 4: No.
48:38
Speaker 2: Dude, I just read– you might be well-read on this,
48:40
but I just read something interesting. The eight-hour night of sleep?
48:44
Speaker 1: Yes.
48:45
Speaker 2: Invented by a mattress company? You know about this?
48:47
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was invented by a mattress company,
48:49
but I do know that traditionally in the past– people
48:52
would do two sleeps.
48:53
Speaker 2: That's right yeah yeah yeah this was yeah so you
48:55
know about what i'm talking about i just read this
48:57
literally yesterday in one of my doom scrolling things but.
48:59
Speaker 1: It's interesting because i did that a lot when i
49:02
was young where i would wake up in the middle
49:05
of the night and i just decided to watch tv
49:07
and do something for an hour for a few hours
49:09
and then i'd go back to sleep but it was
49:10
just for me it was just like being indulgent because
49:13
i was single and free and you know 25 years
49:16
old and i had my own apartment i'm like i
49:18
can do whatever the fuck I want get up at
49:20
3 o'clock in the morning watch TV for a couple
49:22
hours and go to sleep till noon.
49:23
Speaker 2: Why not sit around in your boxers eat cereal mattress
49:26
part is a myth oh it is god damn it
49:29
everything I keep bringing up is a myth Jamie no
49:31
whale dicks no mattresses Jamie is the killer of dreams
49:33
you're the killer of all my stuff I saw.
49:35
Speaker 5: The same Instagram video you guys saw and I thought it.
49:37
Speaker 2: Was interesting too yeah That is the myth.
49:40
Speaker 1: I think that might be a myth. I think the
49:43
two sleep thing, it was a way that people would
49:46
get up in the middle of the night. But you
49:48
also have to think, I think a lot of people
49:50
went to bed way earlier because it got dark.
49:54
Speaker 2: And we didn't have electricity.
49:55
Speaker 1: And there's a normal circadian rhythm where people get, it
49:58
gets dark out, you eat, maybe hang out in front
50:00
of a campfire for a little while, and then you
50:02
go to bed. Right. If you've ever gone camping, that's
50:04
what most people do. Most people don't stay up until
50:07
4 in the morning when you're camping.
50:08
Speaker 2: No, not without booze. There's nothing to do.
50:11
Speaker 1: If you've got booze, you might be up late telling
50:14
stories and laughing. And if anybody breaks out a guitar,
50:17
you're fucked.
50:18
Speaker 2: Then you're up all night.
50:19
Speaker 5: When you mentioned pandas, I was going to ask you
50:21
about them. I had seen going around the same places
50:23
that pandas are fake.
50:24
Speaker 2: Did you see the zoo in China that painted the dogs?
50:27
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people talking about that.
50:28
Speaker 2: Did you see the zoo in China that painted the Pomeranians?
50:30
Speaker 1: I did see that.
50:31
Speaker 2: I did see that.
50:32
Speaker 1: But the thing is about pandas is that, and I
50:35
went down a rabbit hole with this the other night,
50:37
there were no depictions of pandas in, like, ancient Chinese history.
50:42
Speaker 2: No. Is that true?
50:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is true. That's bizarre. Yeah, they didn't show
50:46
up until, like. God, I want to say it was
50:48
like the 16th century or 17th century.
50:52
Speaker 2: That's bizarre. I wonder why that is. Because you know
50:54
there were explorers going through the area and all of that.
50:57
Speaker 1: Well, the idea was that maybe they were engineered to
51:00
eat bamboo. Because bamboo, if you think about it, is
51:03
like a very prolific plant.
51:04
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
51:05
Speaker 1: Like I have bamboo on my property. That shit just
51:07
grows like– it's crazy how well it grows. It grows
51:09
so quickly.
51:10
Speaker 2: And there's almost no nutritional value in it either.
51:12
Speaker 5: Right.
51:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
51:14
Speaker 1: So here's the panda. Okay. Interesting. The claim is largely true.
51:18
With nuance. So what did you search into perplexity, our
51:22
AI sponsor? Is it true that pandas aren't in Chinese
51:25
ancient history? The claim is largely true, though with nuance. Okay.
51:30
Giant panda strikingly absent from China's classical cultural record. Unlike
51:34
the dragon, which is weird, tiger, by the way. Our
51:38
conversation about it made it to The View. I don't
51:40
know if you know about that.
51:41
Speaker 2: Dude, I texted you. I texted you. You changed your
51:44
status to dragon believer.
51:45
Speaker 5: It was so funny.
51:47
Speaker 2: I was like, he believes in dragons. I was like, oh,
51:51
my God.
51:51
Speaker 1: This is wonderful. Oh, it's so good. Oh, this is
51:54
so good. Okay, so when did it happen? Unlike the dragon,
51:58
tiger crane, or tortoise doesn't appear on ancient bronzes or
52:02
pottery in Tang poetry, song paintings... Yuan, Y-U-A-N, how do
52:07
you say that? Beats me. Yuan, drama, Ming novels, or Q-I-N-G, Qing? Qing.
52:16
Before the late 20th century, it had essentially no symbolic
52:20
role in Chinese civilization. Its status as a national treasure
52:24
is a post-1949 invention.
52:27
Speaker 2: That's bizarre.
52:28
Speaker 1: After pandas became famous globally in the 20th century, Chinese
52:32
scholars went back and combed old texts looking for them,
52:36
a few candidate references exist. The Shijing Book of Odes
52:41
and Shang Shu mention a creature called Pi or Mo,
52:45
which some modern scholars retroactively identified as the panda, but
52:49
the identification is contested. And those same words were also
52:52
used for leopards, tapir, or mythical beasts. Emperor Wen of Han,
53:02
2nd century BCE, reportedly had a moe buried in his
53:06
mother's tomb, sometimes claimed as a panda.
53:10
Speaker 2: Huh.
53:10
Speaker 1: But that's weird.
53:12
Speaker 2: That is very bizarre.
53:13
Speaker 1: Fragmentary, ambiguous, and rare. Nothing like the deep iconographic tradition
53:19
around dragons, phoenixes, or tigers. Why the absence?
53:22
Speaker 2: Rogan-style claim. I've never even said it before.
53:27
Speaker 1: Fuck you.
53:28
Speaker 2: How dare you, perplexity.
53:31
Speaker 1: That is so funny. It's a Rogan-style claim.
53:34
Speaker 5: I think it's those that were on the podcast also.
53:37
Speaker 2: It's listening right now.
53:38
Speaker 5: Because sometimes they'll bring in questions I've asked from like
53:41
last month and I'll be like, are you? And I'm like, no,
53:43
I didn't. This is a separate search, but it's, like,
53:45
all locked into the AI history.
53:47
Speaker 1: Oh, I asked it a question once, and it said,
53:50
as you have previously stated. No way. I was like, whoa.
53:54
Speaker 2: Interesting.
53:55
Speaker 1: I was trying to find out, like, how many views
53:57
something had gotten. Yeah. And you're like, as you've previously stated.
54:00
Speaker 2: It told you, yeah.
54:02
Speaker 1: You're using me as data?
54:04
Speaker 2: This is why AI is so fucked up.
54:07
Speaker 1: You're trusting me? I'm trusting you. Don't trust me at all.
54:10
I get all my information from you.
54:14
Speaker 2: Dude, that's so weird. It is weird. Because it's not like,
54:18
you know, okay, there's no mention of ducks. I get it,
54:20
because there's ducks everywhere. Who cares, right? Like, so why
54:23
do we write about them? But it's not something like that.
54:25
Speaker 1: Right.
54:25
Speaker 2: Pandas were never so abundant that it was not worth
54:28
talking about.
54:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, see if where this theory, who invented this theory
54:32
that they were engineered to eat bamboo?
54:35
Speaker 2: So who did this engineering in this theory?
54:38
Speaker 1: Well, that's a question. Like, who did dogs, right? Why
54:40
do we have dogs?
54:41
Speaker 2: Right.
54:42
Speaker 1: Which is really weird. I have a dog. He's a
54:45
King Charles Cavalier.
54:46
Speaker 2: I do. They're very cute. He's adorable.
54:50
Speaker 1: He's so cute. I love him to death. And he's
54:53
made an appearance on the podcast.
54:55
Speaker 2: Oh, nice.
54:56
Speaker 1: He's the furthest thing from a wolf. As far as
55:00
we've taken a wolf to make it so fucking adorable
55:03
and cute. But that is what it is. That was
55:07
at one point in time a wolf. And somehow or
55:09
another we engineered it down to a dog. That's adorable
55:12
and just wants to cuddle with you and sit in
55:13
your lap and play.
55:14
Speaker 2: And weighs 25 pounds.
55:15
Speaker 1: So what happened? And how did we do that? And
55:18
could you do that with a bear? And could you
55:20
get a bear, then take that bear and make it something? Absolutely.
55:24
I think it's the only bear that's a true herbivore
55:28
as well.
55:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's correct.
55:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
55:30
Speaker 1: Which is also weird. So what have we done? Their
55:33
digestive tract? We changed.
55:35
Speaker 4: Yeah.
55:36
Speaker 1: And they're required.
55:37
Speaker 2: It's like koalas.
55:39
Speaker 1: I think they only eat eucalyptus.
55:41
Speaker 2: That's right.
55:41
Speaker 1: Yep. Fucking weird.
55:43
Speaker 2: Bizarre.
55:43
Speaker 1: Weirdly weird.
55:44
Speaker 2: Which also has no nutritional value and you probably know
55:46
this makes them like high basically.
55:48
Speaker 5: So I was looking up who did it and started
55:50
going on the thing that it's not– no one is
55:52
known for the theory. It's because they're actually.
55:55
Speaker 1: Oh, they're a taxon. So it's koalas, I think, are
55:59
the ones that are pure herbivores?
56:02
Speaker 2: They definitely are, but they're not bears at all. They're
56:04
a marsupial. They just call them koala bears.
56:07
Speaker 1: I see.
56:07
Speaker 2: So when they say they are taxonomic carnivores, that means
56:10
taxonomically they're in the order carnivora, if that makes sense.
56:14
Speaker 1: But it says with a short digestive tract and gut
56:16
microbiomes of a meat eater.
56:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
56:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. So they're vegans.
56:21
Speaker 2: But you could selectively breed for anything to some degree
56:24
if you had enough time.
56:25
Speaker 1: But look, but that's the other thing. Like, why are
56:27
they so cute? That I cannot answer. Because they're so
56:31
much cuter than any other bear by far. Like that face,
56:34
even with the teeth out. That's adorable. Buddy.
56:37
Speaker 2: They also have the best PR campaign in history. Like
56:40
they're the dumbest animals in the world. You know this, right?
56:43
Speaker 1: Really?
56:44
Speaker 2: Oh my God. I don't know if that's the right terminology,
56:46
but like. You can hand a panda an apple and
56:49
it will hand you its baby. I'm not joking, dude.
56:53
You can find videos of this.
56:54
Speaker 1: Well, isn't there more evidence that it's raised, that it's
56:57
been engineered because it doesn't have the instincts that a
57:00
wild animal would have?
57:01
Speaker 2: Dude, their parental instincts are bonkers.
57:04
Speaker 1: Bonkers.
57:04
Speaker 2: Like, they will drop their baby and go for an apple.
57:07
That's how zookeepers take their babies away. It's... Dude, it's
57:11
like these guys are trying to go extinct. I swear
57:13
to God. It's insane.
57:14
Speaker 1: So where did the theory come from? See if you
57:17
can find out where the theory came from that they
57:19
were engineered to eat bamboo.
57:21
Speaker 5: That's why I asked that exact question. It's just a hypothesis.
57:24
Speaker 1: It just started showing up on my Instagram about three
57:26
months ago. Huh.
57:28
Speaker 2: Dude, Instagram. You never know what you're going to get. Oh,
57:30
of course.
57:31
Speaker 1: But that's what's fun.
57:32
Speaker 2: Yeah.
57:33
Speaker 1: As long as you don't buy into it.
57:35
Speaker 2: Dude, the problem is even like me and what I
57:37
do as a biologist, I can– I mean, I'd say
57:41
90% I can tell, but there's a 10% where I
57:43
kind of tell if it's AI or real or, and
57:46
I'm looking at it going, well, that behavior is wrong,
57:48
so it has to be AI. But it's crazy what's
57:51
going on in like the animal space with the AI
57:53
mock-ups now.
57:54
Speaker 1: I watched one today where it was a wildebeest that
57:58
a leopard had jumped on its back and the wildebeest
58:01
jumped into the water and the crocodiles killed the leopard
58:05
on its back and the wildebeest got away.
58:07
Speaker 2: Totally fake.
58:08
Speaker 1: It has to be.
58:09
Speaker 2: It sounds fake. I mean, it sounds insane.
58:11
Speaker 1: Wildebeest is smart all of a sudden. So smart that
58:13
it figured out all I have to do is get
58:16
to those crocs and the crops. Also, like you're going
58:19
to run– like you're going to give yourself more problems.
58:22
Speaker 2: Right, by going into the water. Yeah. By the way,
58:25
multiple crocodiles. So why wouldn't they just eat you too?
58:28
They would. They'd just kill everything. They would kill everybody. Everything.
58:30
They wouldn't care at all.
58:31
Speaker 1: If both of you are compromised, it's not going to
58:32
just grab the leopard on your back. It's going to
58:34
grab you too because you can't get away.
58:36
Speaker 2: Anything they can get.
58:37
Speaker 3: Yeah.
58:37
Speaker 4: Yeah.
58:38
Speaker 2: No, it's fake. It's crazy.
58:39
Speaker 1: But it was also fun.
58:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. It's also fun.
58:41
Speaker 5: And fun.
58:42
Speaker 1: Ooh, get away.
58:42
Speaker 5: I just found it actually in a different video, but yeah.
58:44
Speaker 1: Here it is right here.
58:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Oh, so this is a– This is a.
58:48
Speaker 5: Longer cut of the video.
58:49
Speaker 2: But you can see by, like, the saturation of the leopard. Yeah,
58:52
the leopard's a little fake. And, like, the way the
58:53
claws are kind of, like, there's no claws. It's almost
58:56
like soft-pawing it. Do you know what I mean? Right, right.
58:59
Speaker 1: Look how he's hanging on.
59:00
Speaker 2: This could be.
59:00
Speaker 5: A video of a real wildebeest getting eaten by a croc,
59:03
and they just added the leopard.
59:04
Speaker 2: To the back. That very well could be.
59:06
Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing.
59:07
Speaker 2: No, that's a fake croc. Oh, this is different.
59:10
Speaker 1: No, bro, that's real. Guys, stop. This is different. This
59:14
one's different because this one, also, by the way, the
59:18
wildebeest is doing way too well in that struggle.
59:20
Speaker 2: Yes.
59:20
Speaker 1: Because when crocodiles do get wildebeest, they get them quick.
59:23
Speaker 5: The leopard got on this one.
59:25
Speaker 2: Someone put some time into this.
59:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, when the crocs get a hold of something, it's
59:30
a wrap. It's not much of a struggle.
59:33
Speaker 2: I just did. I'm probably not supposed to talk about
59:34
this yet, but I just did this show for Discovery
59:37
that I've been working on for a couple years where
59:40
basically I put myself in the perspective of prey. So
59:42
I would have been in the perspective of that wildebeest
59:45
through engineering and doing all these builds and stuff like that.
59:48
And I lowered myself into a pond of crocodiles. It
59:52
was insane. I had a cage around me, so a
59:54
very small cage. It was basically a coffin.
59:57
Speaker 1: Made out of what, though? What's a cage made out of?
59:58
Speaker 2: Whatever the guys in the workshop could find. I think steel.
1:00:01
Speaker 1: Did they try it out first? No.
1:00:03
Speaker 2: I mean, we tested it with nothing in it, and
1:00:05
we're like, okay, this is working. I could send it
1:00:07
to Jamie. I have it on my phone, but it was...
1:00:09
Send it to Jamie. Okay, dude, it was crazy. It
1:00:12
was nuts.
1:00:13
Speaker 1: Why would you do that?
1:00:15
Speaker 2: I don't know, man.
1:00:16
Speaker 1: Well, it's like those shark cages, man. Those things don't
1:00:19
hold up. You've seen that before, right? Oh yeah.
1:00:21
Speaker 2: Where they go straight through the shark cage.
1:00:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:00:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's craziness.
1:00:24
Speaker 2: It's absolute craziness. I'll find, here we go. Dude, we
1:00:28
did this. I don't know why I did. Oh, you
1:00:30
know what, Jamie, go on the, if you don't mind,
1:00:32
go on the discovery Instagram. I think it's there. Good,
1:00:34
good luck finding it. I can send you something in
1:00:36
the meantime, but, um, I think they posted, like, a
1:00:38
short teaser of it. It was nuts, though. So I'm
1:00:41
in this little cage. We rigged up these cables.
1:00:44
Speaker 1: Were you wearing scuba gear?
1:00:46
Speaker 2: So I had a scuba tank with me in case
1:00:48
the thing broke and I ended up on the bottom.
1:00:49
LAUGHTER Sounds dumber out loud.
1:00:53
Speaker 1: And then you have so much oxygen before they can
1:00:55
get you out.
1:00:55
Speaker 3: 30 minutes.
1:00:55
Speaker 2: 30 minutes before.
1:00:56
Speaker 1: Oh, God, dude.
1:00:57
Speaker 2: And then I was talking to our guy. So, you know,
1:00:59
it was a TV production, so there's like stunt coordinators
1:01:02
and all this stuff. And I was like, so, okay,
1:01:03
cable snaps. I go down. I grab the regulator. I've
1:01:06
got 30 minutes to 40 minutes in my tank. Then what?
1:01:09
He's like, oh, I have this grappling hook. We'll throw it,
1:01:11
hook it with the grappling hook, and pull it out.
1:01:13
I'm like, bro, what if you hit a log? He's like, hmm,
1:01:16
hadn't thought about that. I'm like, how are you getting
1:01:18
me out of here?
1:01:18
Speaker 1: Not only that, that easily could take more than 30 minutes.
1:01:21
Speaker 2: Of course it could take more than 30 minutes.
1:01:23
Speaker 1: So you might have to get out and swim.
1:01:25
Speaker 2: Oh, I couldn't. And can you get out? I couldn't.
1:01:27
I locked myself into the cage. There was no getting out.
1:01:29
Speaker 1: You did this?
1:01:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty dumb. It was cool, though, because
1:01:33
it was such a unique perspective. But I told my
1:01:35
wife when I got home from that one, I was like, yeah,
1:01:37
I think this is my last year doing this shit.
1:01:39
It's getting too much now.
1:01:42
Speaker 1: That's the thing about those kind of shows. It's like
1:01:44
it's not enough to just see the animals. You have
1:01:47
to do something that makes it spectacular enough to get
1:01:50
people to tune in. Like that polar bear one where
1:01:52
the guy got in that big plexiglass box.
1:01:54
Speaker 2: That literally inspired the whole series, I swear to God.
1:01:58
Speaker 1: I hate that video.
1:01:59
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
1:01:59
Speaker 1: I mean, I've watched it a hundred times. I know,
1:02:01
me too. I don't hate it, but I hate the
1:02:02
idea of it because it just shows you how predatory
1:02:06
polar bears are and how they don't give a fuck.
1:02:08
It's just trying to get at that guy.
1:02:10
Speaker 2: Isn't it crazy? Yeah, it's gnarly.
1:02:13
Speaker 1: I mean, just actively hunting him.
1:02:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:02:15
Speaker 1: It's so different than the other bears, which is like
1:02:18
if you get killed by a grizzly, generally it's like
1:02:20
you fucked up. Yeah. Like you stumbled upon one that's old.
1:02:24
Speaker 2: Startled it.
1:02:25
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or you startled it or, you know, you zig
1:02:28
when you should have zagged.
1:02:29
Speaker 2: Have you seen the city in Russia, the abandoned island
1:02:32
city where the polar bears have taken over? Oh, you
1:02:35
got to see this. It's incredible.
1:02:37
Speaker 1: I've seen videos of Russia of people like getting chased
1:02:40
by polar bears in their town.
1:02:42
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's like the one where the guy
1:02:44
jumps on the snowmobile and runs after.
1:02:46
Speaker 1: Him and barely gets away.
1:02:47
Speaker 2: There's a whole area in the Bering Sea that was,
1:02:50
I want to say, a former mining town or maybe
1:02:51
fishing town. And people moved out because it collapsed for
1:02:54
whatever reason. This place. Look at this. And the polar
1:02:57
bears have just moved into town. Oh, they're living in
1:03:00
the house. They're living in the house. Look at this.
1:03:03
They took it over as a den. Completely took it over.
1:03:07
Speaker 3: Wow.
1:03:07
Speaker 1: How cool is this? That's amazing.
1:03:09
Speaker 2: They're just fully moved in, like living in the house.
1:03:12
That's a drone shop. But this is not AI. This
1:03:14
is legit.
1:03:15
Speaker 1: They're so cool looking.
1:03:16
Speaker 2: Oh, they're the coolest.
1:03:17
Speaker 1: They're so interesting.
1:03:19
Speaker 2: How amazing is that, though? Imagine you're out on a
1:03:23
boat and you're like, oh, man, we've been sailing for
1:03:24
three weeks. Oh, look, there's like a little village. Let's
1:03:26
pop in there for a day.
1:03:28
Speaker 1: That would be a cool movie.
1:03:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be a good movie.
1:03:31
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
1:03:32
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:03:32
Speaker 1: A bunch of people like, oh, we found a village.
1:03:34
Speaker 2: Let's go there. You like head in and turn, you know,
1:03:36
like set up and then all of a sudden you're surrounded.
1:03:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all polar bear. You're like, why is there
1:03:40
so much shit in this house? Because they probably just
1:03:44
shit right in the house.
1:03:45
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
1:03:45
Speaker 1: So they're pawing at the drones.
1:03:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:03:47
Speaker 1: Wow. Look how cool they're hanging out the window like, hey, Tom.
1:03:51
Speaker 2: Come on over.
1:03:52
Speaker 1: Have a drink.
1:03:54
Speaker 2: You could put me in the glass box on this island.
1:03:56
This looks so cool.
1:03:57
Speaker 1: It is so cool. They're an amazing animal.
1:03:59
Speaker 2: They really are.
1:04:00
Speaker 1: But they're so weird. They're so long, too.
1:04:04
Speaker 2: I went and did a sort of a trek with them.
1:04:07
Speaker 5: Where are they getting food on that island if they're
1:04:09
the only ones there?
1:04:09
Speaker 1: Oh, well, they're the only ones there, but they're seals
1:04:12
and all kinds of other shit.
1:04:14
Speaker 2: They'll be hunting all the marine mammals in the area.
1:04:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're the cleanup crew.
1:04:18
Speaker 2: And they swim huge distances.
1:04:20
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, man.
1:04:21
Speaker 2: A couple have turned up in Iceland. Did you know that? What? Yeah. There's,
1:04:24
I think, two or three cases of polar bears that
1:04:27
have swum from Greenland to Iceland.
1:04:29
Speaker 1: How far is that?
1:04:30
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but it's not close, obviously.
1:04:33
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
1:04:33
Speaker 2: It took the Vikings like 100 years to do it.
1:04:36
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
1:04:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:04:37
Speaker 1: They can swim that far?
1:04:39
Speaker 5: 200 miles.
1:04:40
Speaker 2: 200 miles.
1:04:41
Speaker 1: Whoa.
1:04:42
Speaker 2: Hopefully this isn't a myth.
1:04:43
Speaker 5: This one says it was shot dead after it did
1:04:45
it in 2008.
1:04:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it swam across, right?
1:04:48
Speaker 5: 200 miles.
1:04:53
Speaker 2: How crazy is that? Just take a swim one day
1:04:56
and end up colonizing an entirely new place.
1:04:58
Speaker 1: So it's like the David Goggins of polar bears. Bro,
1:05:02
I can make it.
1:05:03
Speaker 2: Feel no pain.
1:05:04
Speaker 1: Operation to kill the animals captured on film. Let's fucking go.
1:05:07
Speaker 5: It's a two-year-old video. It might not be.
1:05:08
Speaker 1: Let's fucking go. Let's see that video.
1:05:11
Speaker 5: I got an error.
1:05:12
Speaker 1: 404. Yeah.
1:05:14
Speaker 2: But isn't that crazy? 200 miles swim as a bear.
1:05:17
Speaker 5: This says it might have, well, jumped off of just
1:05:20
a piece of ice somewhere. So it could have got
1:05:22
a little float.
1:05:23
Speaker 2: Right.
1:05:23
Speaker 1: It could have hung out for a little bit.
1:05:25
Speaker 5: But still, even 50 miles, it's pretty far.
1:05:28
Speaker 1: Well, they can last so long with the fat that's
1:05:30
on their body.
1:05:31
Speaker 2: And they like snooze float. Have you seen that? They
1:05:35
won't just like actively swim. They'll like kind of like
1:05:37
snooze float in between hunting. Oh. It's kind of amazing.
1:05:41
In the winter, they have so much fat, you know,
1:05:43
or yeah, in the winter, stored up, getting ready to
1:05:46
chill because they don't eat as much during the summer.
1:05:48
Am I getting this right? I think so. Right. That
1:05:51
they like, yeah, you see them like snooze floating in
1:05:54
the ocean.
1:05:55
Speaker 1: Well, they eat a lot in the summer to get
1:05:57
ready for the winter, right? Yeah.
1:06:00
Speaker 2: I know they eat a lot. In midsummer, they don't
1:06:02
eat a lot. It's too hot for them to actively hunt.
1:06:05
I know that.
1:06:06
Speaker 1: How hot is it too hot for them to actively hunt?
1:06:08
Speaker 2: Dude, I went to Manitoba, Canada to go see them
1:06:12
on foot. And it was like 75 degrees at the
1:06:14
height of the day, maybe 70. And yeah, they wouldn't
1:06:19
be hunting.
1:06:20
Speaker 1: Polar bears were frequently tamed during the Middle Ages. What?
1:06:24
Since no bear has been captured alive in Iceland. Oh,
1:06:27
but since then, receding North Pole ice is diminishing their
1:06:31
hunting and mating grounds and jeopardizing their survival.
1:06:34
Speaker 5: The oldest sighting in Iceland was 890. Whoa. 16 years
1:06:38
after the first people got there.
1:06:40
Speaker 2: But what's crazy if you think about that is all
1:06:44
it would take if people weren't there is two polar
1:06:48
bears over the course of polar bears' lifetime to wash
1:06:51
up on the island. And then you have a population
1:06:53
of polar bears there.
1:06:54
Speaker 1: Right.
1:06:54
Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean?
1:06:55
Speaker 1: Right.
1:06:55
Speaker 2: The male swims there. Five years later, the female swims there.
1:06:58
Speaker 1: Boom.
1:06:58
Speaker 2: There's a population of polar bears. There's plenty of food,
1:07:01
you know.
1:07:02
Speaker 1: What an adventurous female it would have to be.
1:07:05
Speaker 2: True.
1:07:05
Speaker 1: 1252, Henry III took delivery of a white bear, sent
1:07:08
to him as a gift from King Haakon IV of Norway.
1:07:13
He decided to keep it in the Tower of London.
1:07:15
The bear was either too big or too exciting to
1:07:17
be taken to Oxfordshire. where there had been a royal
1:07:20
menagerie at Woodstock since Henry I's reign. What's more, it
1:07:27
needed to fish. So the beast was sent to the tower,
1:07:30
and from what we could tell, it was well looked
1:07:32
out for, although it had a muzzle and a chain
1:07:34
to wear while on land. The sheriffs of London were
1:07:36
obliged to lay out more than a shilling a week
1:07:39
for its upkeep, which added up over a year to
1:07:42
roughly the expected income of a night.
1:07:45
Speaker 2: What a wild story.
1:07:46
Speaker 5: They had no guns to stop them. What the hell
1:07:48
would you do?
1:07:49
Speaker 1: Bows and arrows, I guess, and spears. The bear had
1:07:52
a long swimming leash. The man wore waterproof clothes. What?
1:07:59
The keeper? So it had a keeper. The bear came
1:08:02
with a Norwegian keeper, and the keeper was allowed to
1:08:05
lead fishing trips into Thames. How do you say that?
1:08:08
Speaker 2: Thames? The Thames River, yeah.
1:08:10
Speaker 1: Which the tower sat. The men wore waterproof clothes, again,
1:08:15
built to the crown. The bear had a long swimming leash.
1:08:18
There were salmon in the Thames in those days. So
1:08:21
while being in London was probably not half so pleasing
1:08:24
to the bear sitting on an ice floe in the
1:08:26
Arctic Circle, it sure beat working.
1:08:28
Speaker 2: The way this guy wrote this is hilarious, by the way.
1:08:31
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:08:32
Speaker 2: Do you know what a sloth bear is?
1:08:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:08:34
Speaker 2: Mean as anything.
1:08:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're in Japan, right?
1:08:37
Speaker 2: India and into Nepal in that area. Amazing. They're like
1:08:42
a perfect example of not the size of the dog
1:08:44
in the fight, but the fight in the dog, because
1:08:45
they're not a very big bear, but they will take
1:08:47
on tigers and everything else. A certain group, I don't
1:08:52
know the name of a tribe, I think in India,
1:08:54
used to capture sloth bears and they'd put a ring
1:08:57
in its nose, like a nose ring, and then this barbaric,
1:09:01
it doesn't happen anymore. But then they would take the
1:09:03
bear onto the street as a street performer. I just
1:09:06
read about this. And they would light a fire and
1:09:08
put like a big sheet metal over it and then
1:09:11
walk the sloth bear onto it. So the bear would
1:09:13
dance because its feet were burning. Yeah. And yeah, they
1:09:18
call it the dancing bears. I guess it was in Nepal.
1:09:21
And yeah, it was a horrific thing that people used
1:09:24
to do.
1:09:24
Speaker 5: People are so rude.
1:09:25
Speaker 2: Imagine doing that though and being like, oh, this will
1:09:27
be worth a shilling or two.
1:09:30
Speaker 1: Well, bear baiting, they used to do that with dogs.
1:09:33
They used to have a chained up bear and they
1:09:34
would allow dogs to fight the bear.
1:09:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy.
1:09:37
Speaker 1: They did that with bulls.
1:09:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:09:39
Speaker 1: They'd have a chained up bull and have dogs attack
1:09:43
the bull.
1:09:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, in South Africa in the early colonial days, they
1:09:47
used to do it with baboons and let the dogs
1:09:48
and the baboons fight and bet money on it.
1:09:51
Speaker 1: People are so gross. It's crazy.
1:09:54
Speaker 2: But, you know, like I always have this weird stance.
1:09:56
Do I agree with any of it? Of course not.
1:09:58
But we wouldn't be where we were and care about
1:10:01
wildlife and conservation if we hadn't made some of those mistakes.
1:10:04
Speaker 1: Is that what that is, a mistake? I mean– You're
1:10:12
probably like your understanding of the value of life is
1:10:15
probably completely distorted.
1:10:16
Speaker 2: Completely. Yeah.
1:10:17
Speaker 1: You're living in a horrific time. Everyone's dying of the plague.
1:10:21
Speaker 2: Violence is entertainment.
1:10:22
Speaker 3: Right.
1:10:22
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? Like that is something
1:10:24
to do. And life value is incredibly low.
1:10:27
Speaker 1: Right.
1:10:27
Speaker 2: Life comes and goes.
1:10:28
Speaker 1: The Coliseum was when? When was that?
1:10:30
Speaker 2: I don't know. I should, but I don't.
1:10:32
Speaker 1: I think it was 2000 plus years ago.
1:10:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:10:35
Speaker 1: Somewhere around there when they first started having these. Crazy
1:10:38
games there.
1:10:38
Speaker 2: Do you know they used to flood the Coliseum and
1:10:41
do ship battles and things?
1:10:42
Speaker 1: I went there a few years back and we went
1:10:44
on a tour.
1:10:44
Speaker 2: Was it cool?
1:10:45
Speaker 1: Oh, it was amazing.
1:10:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:10:46
Speaker 1: But it's also like you stand there and you try
1:10:48
to take it in. Like when I go to these
1:10:49
ancient places, I try to just like sit and just
1:10:54
try to imagine. Like when you're actually– it's one thing
1:10:57
to imagine when you're looking at a photograph or a video.
1:10:59
But when you're actually in the spot.
1:11:01
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:11:01
Speaker 1: You know, like when you're in Athens.
1:11:02
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:11:03
Speaker 1: And you're like– Standing at the Parthenon. Okay. What the
1:11:07
fuck was this like? Yeah. Yeah. What was this like?
1:11:10
Speaker 2: And that was like the center of everything.
1:11:13
Speaker 1: Everything. Yeah.
1:11:13
Speaker 2: Democracy. Exactly.
1:11:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. Exactly. And also drugs. Those guys were high as fuck.
1:11:19
They were all doing drugs.
1:11:20
Speaker 5: That's true.
1:11:20
Speaker 1: Because we went to Ulysses. Ulysses. Ulysses, rather. And that's
1:11:25
the place where they had the Eleusinian mystery schools. And
1:11:28
people would go on this trek where they wouldn't eat.
1:11:30
And they would walk from. Athens and they would have
1:11:33
these psychedelic rituals. And, you know, you're in this place
1:11:36
where they did it. You could like feel it. It's weird.
1:11:39
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, obviously not synthetic, but were they, was
1:11:41
it just mushrooms? What were, what were these psychedelics?
1:11:44
Speaker 1: Totally no, but they have had residue from some of
1:11:48
these clay pots that had ergot in it.
1:11:51
Speaker 2: What's ergot?
1:11:51
Speaker 1: So ergot is a fungus that has a very similar
1:11:55
psychoactive effect as LSD.
1:11:58
Speaker 2: Oh, interesting.
1:11:58
Speaker 1: I think it has lysergic acid in it. Let's find
1:12:03
out what actually– it also kills people. There's been cases
1:12:08
of ergot poisoning through wheat.
1:12:10
Speaker 2: Oh, interesting.
1:12:11
Speaker 1: People have died. And they also think it's connected to
1:12:13
the Salem witch trials.
1:12:15
Speaker 2: Oh, driving people crazy.
1:12:17
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting. So the Salem witch trials– I don't know
1:12:20
if this has been proven or if this is just
1:12:21
a theory. But the idea is that if you have
1:12:23
an early frost– And that some of the wheat survives,
1:12:27
but the wheat can have this fungus on it that
1:12:30
grows ergot.
1:12:31
Speaker 5: Okay.
1:12:31
Speaker 1: So this ergot fungus. And so you're eating this wheat
1:12:35
and you're making beer out of it. And like everybody's
1:12:37
tripping balls. I think everybody's a fucking witch. You're all
1:12:41
on accidental acid.
1:12:43
Speaker 2: That's hilarious.
1:12:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:12:44
Speaker 2: Probably like, man, this beer is really good.
1:12:46
Speaker 3: Right.
1:12:47
Speaker 2: Until there's a witch. And then you're like, man, this
1:12:49
beer is bad.
1:12:49
Speaker 1: Well, there's also, I mean, imagine, first of all, you've
1:12:52
got a bunch of crazy superstitions and. People are afraid
1:12:55
of everything already because you don't know anything about science
1:12:57
in the world.
1:12:58
Speaker 2: You don't understand a thing. Yeah.
1:12:59
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of fears. And then there's a
1:13:01
lot of people that claim to be the wise people
1:13:03
of the town. And they tell you crazy stories about witches.
1:13:06
And you're like, oh, witches are real.
1:13:07
Speaker 4: Yep.
1:13:08
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.
1:13:09
Speaker 1: So lysergic acid amides... Ergometrine. All these share lysergic acid
1:13:20
ergoline core, which is why LSD, semi-synthesized from lysergic acid,
1:13:26
is chemically related to ergot compounds.
1:13:29
Speaker 2: And all of this comes from that mold on the wheat.
1:13:31
Speaker 1: Wasn't there a time where they did it to people
1:13:35
on purpose in France? I feel like this might have
1:13:39
been like a CIA thing. See if you can find
1:13:42
that story.
1:13:43
Speaker 5: ERGOT or LSD?
1:13:44
Speaker 2: ERGOT.
1:13:45
Speaker 1: I think they– because I think they were experimenting on
1:13:50
the effects of ERGOT, and I think they, like, picked
1:13:54
a town and said, let's see. Because we know they've
1:13:57
done that before. We definitely know they've.
1:13:59
Speaker 2: Just hit whole places. Yeah, let's see. Let's see. Yeah,
1:14:02
why not?
1:14:03
Speaker 1: Think about, like, what we found out during MKUltra that
1:14:07
the CIA was running brothels, and they would give the
1:14:10
Johns LSD– Really? It was literally called Operation Midnight Climax.
1:14:15
And so what they would do is they would have
1:14:16
these two-way mirrors set up.
1:14:17
Speaker 2: This is proven. This is insane.
1:14:19
Speaker 1: This guy named Jolly West, who was the head of MKUltra,
1:14:22
who would say, let's find out what happens. You give
1:14:24
people acid. What's the best way? Well, you get a
1:14:27
bunch of people and do it to them in a
1:14:28
way that, you know, totally unethically. But this is a
1:14:31
way they're not going to tell that you did it
1:14:33
to them because they went to a whorehouse. No one's
1:14:34
going to admit they went to a whorehouse.
1:14:36
Speaker 2: Right.
1:14:36
Speaker 1: So you get these guys. They go to the– get
1:14:38
the prostitute. The prostitute's like, would you like a drink? Like, oh,
1:14:41
I'd love a drink.
1:14:41
Speaker 2: Of course. Thank you.
1:14:43
Speaker 1: Hard day at work. Hard day at work here. The
1:14:45
guy sits down. He's thinking, I'm going to fuck. This
1:14:47
is going to be great.
1:14:49
Speaker 2: Next thing you know, fucking walls are melting. He's tripping balls. Oh,
1:14:52
my God.
1:14:52
Speaker 1: The candle's talking to him. Did you find anything about
1:14:55
the French thing? Here it is. I likely think of
1:14:59
the infamous St. Esprit cursed bread incident of 1951. Long-running
1:15:05
allegation that wasn't ergot at all, but a secret CIA, U.S. Army,
1:15:09
LSD experiment. What happened in Pont Saint-Esprit, this small town
1:15:14
in southern France, hundreds of residents suddenly suffered violent hallucinations, convulsions, insomnia,
1:15:21
and psychotic episodes over several days. 250 people were affected.
1:15:25
50 were committed to asylums. Seven died, including some who
1:15:29
leapt from windows convinced they could fly or being chased
1:15:32
by snakes and tigers. The official French investigation blamed ergot-contaminated
1:15:37
rye flour from a local baker, Classic ergotism, St. Anthony's fire.
1:15:45
That's another case of it. Some later scientists or maybe
1:15:50
the same story. Some later scientists propose alternative culprits, mercury, fungicide, nitrogen, trichloride,
1:15:58
bread bleaching agents or mycotoxins. From Aspergillus Fumigatus? Fumigatus?
1:16:07
Speaker 2: I call bullshit on this. This seems like something where
1:16:10
they test.
1:16:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:16:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:16:11
Speaker 1: It seems like a CIA thing. For sure. 2009, American
1:16:15
investigative journalist H.P. Albarelli Jr. published a terrible mistake, arguing
1:16:23
that Ponce Esprit was actually a covert LSD field test
1:16:28
run jointly by CIA's MK- MKUltra programs, and the U.S.
1:16:33
Army Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, with Swiss drug
1:16:37
company Sandoz, who first synthesized LSD, allegedly supplying the compound.
1:16:43
So his evidence included a declassified CIA document quoting a
1:16:48
Sandoz representative saying the... Saint Esprit secret is being discussed
1:16:55
alongside references to LSD. Oh, they definitely did it.
1:16:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds way more likely.
1:17:00
Speaker 1: That's way more likely. A testimony he attributed former CIA
1:17:04
SOD scientist Frank Olson, who died in a 1953 fall
1:17:09
from a New York City hotel room after being dosed
1:17:11
with LSD by his colleagues.
1:17:14
Speaker 2: What a bunch of assholes. These guys are just dosing
1:17:17
each other.
1:17:17
Speaker 1: It admitted MKUltra incident. Interviews with former U.S. intelligence officials.
1:17:23
Why most historians remain skeptical. Serious pushback came quickly. So
1:17:29
symptoms don't match LSD. Victims had gangrene-like vasoconstriction, weeks-long psychosis,
1:17:36
and physical necrosis consistent with ergot alkaloids. Not a single
1:17:40
acute LSD dose. Interesting. LSD is water-soluble and heat-sensitive, so
1:17:44
baking bread would degrade it. The Sandoz-Cable-Albarelli Yeah, but the
1:17:51
problem with that is, like, one of the reasons why
1:17:54
we know about MKUltra was evidence that they found that
1:17:56
had been in storage. So, you know, when you say
1:18:14
like Freedom of Information Act, they don't give you shit.
1:18:18
Speaker 2: They just bait you with a little bit here and
1:18:20
there to go, oh, OK, we know now.
1:18:21
Speaker 1: Also, they'll just tell you we don't have any evidence.
1:18:23
Go fuck yourself. I mean, look how hard it is
1:18:25
to get the Epstein files. This is a guy that
1:18:27
was all live in 2019. Right.
1:18:30
Speaker 2: Where there were plenty of records of everything happening. Exactly.
1:18:33
Speaker 1: And the Internet.
1:18:35
Speaker 2: This reminds me, do you know about the Lyme disease?
1:18:38
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
1:18:38
Speaker 2: You know about this?
1:18:39
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
1:18:39
Speaker 2: Like the Plum Island thing.
1:18:40
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
1:18:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. Seems very legit. I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist.
1:18:45
This one to me is like a no-brainer.
1:18:47
Speaker 1: Well, it's also people want to say that Lyme disease has...
1:18:50
existed forever absolutely true not to the extent that it
1:18:54
exists today also not as contaminant like not not.
1:18:59
Speaker 2: As right and spreading like crazy like crazy like it's
1:19:03
just sweeping out.
1:19:04
Speaker 1: West not only that Plum Island, they were absolutely doing
1:19:09
gain-of-function research on ticks.
1:19:12
Speaker 2: It's known.
1:19:13
Speaker 1: And the idea was– the reason why they were doing
1:19:16
it– and this is all me, what I've read. I
1:19:20
don't have any direct information.
1:19:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's still fun.
1:19:22
Speaker 1: But what they said was– what they were doing was
1:19:25
engineering ticks with these diseases so– What they could do
1:19:28
is they could spray them from planes and that would
1:19:30
overwhelm the medical system of any– like overwhelm a town.
1:19:35
Speaker 2: That's right.
1:19:35
Speaker 1: Overwhelm their armies. You couldn't keep up and it would–
1:19:38
they wouldn't be able to fight.
1:19:40
Speaker 2: That's right. And it could wipe out food sources. It
1:19:42
had like multiple implications.
1:19:43
Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. So now we have these fucking creeps from
1:19:47
the World Economic Forum that are talking about the dangers
1:19:51
of eating meat, right, and about how people eating meat
1:19:55
is what's wrong with the That's why it's accelerating climate change,
1:19:58
all horseshit. But they're saying it, and they're saying that
1:20:00
it's almost a moral obligation to create a tick or
1:20:05
to create more ticks that would have this alpha gal
1:20:08
in them.
1:20:09
Speaker 2: The one that makes you allergic to meat. Yes. They're
1:20:12
saying that they want more of that? Yes.
1:20:14
Speaker 1: Bro. This guy was talking about not only that. I
1:20:17
have a buddy who has that, my friend Evan from
1:20:19
Black Rifle Coffee.
1:20:20
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
1:20:21
Speaker 2: I know Evan.
1:20:21
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:20:22
Speaker 1: One of my best friends. Love him to death. Evan
1:20:24
has it bad. And it fucks him up. It's not
1:20:28
as simple as he's allergic to red meat. Like, it
1:20:32
fucks up all of his blood work. His body's a mess.
1:20:35
Speaker 2: And he picked it up hiking and hunting.
1:20:37
Speaker 1: Picked it up.
1:20:38
Speaker 2: He got a tick.
1:20:38
Speaker 1: And he didn't know. And he got bit. My friend,
1:20:42
Bert Kresher, his wife's family, half of them have this
1:20:46
fucking problem.
1:20:46
Speaker 2: No way.
1:20:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:20:47
Speaker 2: Are they from the East Coast? Yeah, East Coast.
1:20:50
Speaker 1: It's the Texas Lone Star Tick. It's not the Texas
1:20:55
Lone Star Tick. But this one tick carries this thing,
1:20:58
and they think that that might perhaps be genetically engineered
1:21:01
as well.
1:21:01
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
1:21:02
Speaker 1: Because there was no alpha gal problem 30, 40 years ago.
1:21:06
It just didn't exist. Now all of a sudden it's ubiquitous.
1:21:08
Speaker 2: And it's everywhere. It's spreading too. Yeah, it's crazy. I
1:21:13
never used to think twice about getting a tick. I
1:21:14
get ticks all the time hiking around and doing the
1:21:16
stuff I do. I never used to think twice about it.
1:21:18
Now I'm terrified of it. I love red meat. I'm
1:21:21
terrified of it now.
1:21:22
Speaker 1: It's not just red meat. The Lyme disease is fucking devastating.
1:21:25
Speaker 2: If you don't catch it early, it can fuck with
1:21:28
you the rest of your life.
1:21:29
Speaker 1: I know multiple people that have it, including Jim Miller,
1:21:32
a guy who fights in the UFC. He had it
1:21:34
really bad. And it fucked up his career for quite
1:21:37
a while, but he got his diet under wraps. He
1:21:41
figured out what to eat and what not to eat,
1:21:43
and now he's fine.
1:21:44
Speaker 2: Do you know about some of those other animal warfare
1:21:47
things they used to do? Like the spy tech they
1:21:51
put in city cats. Do you know about this?
1:21:53
Speaker 4: No.
1:21:54
Speaker 2: Oh, dude, there's some amazing ones.
1:21:55
Speaker 1: Spy tech in cats?
1:21:57
Speaker 2: So during World War II, Jamie would have to confirm
1:22:00
what city this was in. I believe it was the
1:22:02
Russians used to put little hearing devices in street cats
1:22:06
because the Brits would go and meet in back alleys
1:22:09
and have meetings. But there were feral cats everywhere. So
1:22:12
they'd have all these cats running around with these wires
1:22:14
in their brains and stuff and these little, yeah, acoustic kitties.
1:22:18
That's it. The CIA. Dude, how crazy is this?
1:22:22
Speaker 1: Acoustic kitty was a central intelligence agency project launched by
1:22:26
the Directorate of Science and Technology in the late 1960s.
1:22:30
In the 1960s, it intended to use cats to spy
1:22:33
on the Kremlin. In Soviet embassies.
1:22:36
Speaker 2: In an hour-long procedure, a veterinary surgeon implanted a microphone
1:22:39
in the cat's ear canal and a small radio transmitter
1:22:42
at the base of its skull and a thin wire
1:22:44
into its fur.
1:22:45
Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
1:22:46
Speaker 2: How crazy. Imagine that. You're just like having a secret
1:22:48
meeting in a back cove, you know, back alley, and
1:22:50
there's a cat there just live streaming your conversation to
1:22:54
the CIA.
1:22:55
Speaker 1: Go back up a little bit here. It says, dude,
1:22:57
the cat's sense of hunger had to be addressed in
1:23:00
another operation. What? Interesting.
1:23:03
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:23:05
Speaker 1: First acoustic kitty mission was an eavesdrop on two men
1:23:07
in a park outside the Soviet embassy in Washington, D.C.
1:23:11
The cat was released nearby, but was hit and allegedly
1:23:14
killed by a taxi almost immediately.
1:23:16
Speaker 2: Probably the thing was all fucked up. I probably couldn't
1:23:19
get it.
1:23:19
Speaker 1: It's like, what is in my head?
1:23:21
Speaker 2: They put a wire in my head.
1:23:23
Speaker 1: Schizophrenic cat. However, this is disputed in 2013 by Robert Wallace,
1:23:28
a former director of the Office of Technical Service, who
1:23:31
said the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of
1:23:34
training the cat to behave as required and that the
1:23:36
equipment was taken out of the cat, the cat was
1:23:38
re-sewn for a second time. and live for a long
1:23:41
and happy life afterwards.
1:23:42
Speaker 2: Lies! Yeah, come on. You fucking killed that cat. It
1:23:45
got hit by a taxi, but it was fine, and
1:23:47
they took it out of its head.
1:23:49
Speaker 1: But, I mean, more than one cat, I'm sure. But
1:23:52
this idea, the equipment was taken out of the cat,
1:23:54
the fuck you did that? You spent money taking the
1:23:58
equipment out? Did you really? Yeah, exactly.
1:24:00
Speaker 2: Or did you just kill the cat, you fucking assholes? Dude,
1:24:03
there's a few of these, and the bats that would
1:24:06
light fires, do you know about those ones?
1:24:08
Speaker 1: Hold up. The military did not give up on its
1:24:10
use of animals as spies. As of 2006, the Pentagon
1:24:14
requested the creation of cyborg insects for use in espionage.
1:24:19
The request was made by fucking DARPA, of course, of
1:24:23
the Pentagon. Scientists at Cal Berkeley responded by creating a
1:24:27
controllable cyborg beetle in October of 2009. What?
1:24:33
Speaker 2: There's a cockroach under your carpet here listening to us
1:24:35
somewhere right now.
1:24:37
Speaker 1: They're not going to hear anything other than the stuff
1:24:39
we already talked about.
1:24:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, true, true, true.
1:24:40
Speaker 1: That's the wonderful thing about having such a retarded show.
1:24:44
Speaker 2: Who cares? Just say it all out there.
1:24:47
Speaker 1: Whoa, look at this.
1:24:48
Speaker 2: Look at this. Look at this.
1:24:49
Speaker 1: There's a fucking battery in the beetle.
1:24:51
Speaker 2: That's crazy. That's badass. Look at the microchip on its back.
1:24:54
Speaker 1: It's amazing that the beetle can live through all this.
1:24:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
1:24:58
Speaker 1: That's wild. Wow. And I guess as these things have
1:25:03
gotten smaller and smaller, as chips and battery technologies increased.
1:25:07
Speaker 2: Of course. Wow. Think of your cell phone in 09
1:25:10
compared to now. Right, right.
1:25:12
Speaker 1: Fucking wild, man.
1:25:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a few of these. They used to
1:25:16
light bats on fire, and then they'd send them to roost,
1:25:19
and then they'd burn down whole towns and things like that.
1:25:22
That's going back even. Dude, there's spy pigeons where they
1:25:25
put cameras. There's a handful of these that the CIA tried.
1:25:28
Speaker 1: Well, how about what they did with dolphins?
1:25:30
Speaker 2: Oh, like the– well, you know the whole– not beluga. Yeah,
1:25:34
what is the beluga? The Russian spy whale?
1:25:36
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I was talking about dolphins that
1:25:38
they use to detonate things.
1:25:40
Speaker 2: Oh, tell me about it.
1:25:41
Speaker 1: I don't know much about it. They use dolphins as
1:25:43
like literal distributors of warheads. Oh, really? Get a dolphin
1:25:47
to go somewhere and then they blow them up.
1:25:49
Speaker 2: No way. Like a kamikaze dolphin.
1:25:51
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact details of it because I
1:25:53
got sad when I was reading about it. I have
1:25:57
a deep attachment to dolphins. I fucking love dolphins.
1:26:00
Speaker 2: I always say anybody who hates dolphins has to be
1:26:02
a bad person.
1:26:02
Speaker 1: I've had some experiences with them. I had one where
1:26:05
I was like really high on edibles in Hawaii. And
1:26:09
the dolphins would jump out of the water near the
1:26:11
boat and they look at you. Yeah. They look at
1:26:14
you when they were jumping out of the water like, look,
1:26:16
look at me. Like, look, we're doing this thing.
1:26:18
Speaker 2: And they're literally just playing.
1:26:20
Speaker 1: They're playing. Yeah. 100% playing because they came to the
1:26:23
boat and they were jumping in the wake of the boat.
1:26:25
And the more you would cheer and, yay, look at that.
1:26:29
The more they do it. The more they were doing it.
1:26:31
And they were having fun. And I was like, these
1:26:33
are incredible creatures.
1:26:34
Speaker 2: Oh, they totally pick up on your energy.
1:26:36
Speaker 1: So the secret dolphin program began in 1959 to detect
1:26:40
underwater mines and enemy divers. But I think they did
1:26:43
stuff where they— I mean.
1:26:45
Speaker 5: Whether this is correct or they just, like, changed the history.
1:26:48
It says that they didn't do anything to harm humans
1:26:51
or engage in combat. They, like, told their handlers to
1:26:54
do it.
1:26:54
Speaker 2: The one that I've heard about is that they put
1:26:56
them out ahead.
1:26:57
Speaker 5: They were just signifying in dark water because they could
1:26:59
see stuff better than our current technology back then. So
1:27:02
they would echolocate and say, yo, we got something over here.
1:27:05
Come check it out.
1:27:06
Speaker 1: Well, how does the dolphin communicate that back to the
1:27:08
people and how does it know what the person's intended?
1:27:15
That was pretty good. I think there was some speculation
1:27:19
that they actually used them as weapons, though.
1:27:21
Speaker 2: Well, have you seen, not to transition off dolphins, but Valdemir,
1:27:26
the Vladimir, I don't know, the Russian spy Beluga?
1:27:30
Speaker 3: No.
1:27:31
Speaker 2: Okay, this is a real thing. Like 100%, this one's real.
1:27:34
So there was this beluga whale named Valdemir or Vladimir
1:27:37
or something like that. And he turned up in Norway
1:27:40
and he was escaped from a Russian spy program. And
1:27:43
he had a harness with spy gear on him. This
1:27:46
is him right here.
1:27:47
Speaker 3: Look.
1:27:48
Speaker 2: Um see the spy gear on him it's like a
1:27:50
whole thing um and so the russians had been training
1:27:54
this whale as a spy and had harnesses and spy
1:27:58
equipment on him and then he just peaced out and
1:28:00
and turned up in i want to say norway and
1:28:02
then they followed him for a while and then he
1:28:04
mysteriously got shot yeah mysteriously yep some.
1:28:08
Speaker 5: Things with the dolphin like with the dolphin story i
1:28:10
don't know if this is accurate but i did read
1:28:11
this one time that we would like with if We
1:28:14
knew Russia was doing this. We would put some paperwork
1:28:16
out that said, well, we've got dolphins that are blowing
1:28:19
up mines.
1:28:20
Speaker 2: Right. Just so you guys know. Now we've got to
1:28:22
figure that out. Yeah.
1:28:24
Speaker 5: Goose chases.
1:28:24
Speaker 1: That makes sense. That's a good point. That's a good point.
1:28:26
It's like you never really know what's real.
1:28:28
Speaker 2: Right.
1:28:28
Speaker 1: How cool do beluga whales look, though? Look at that thing.
1:28:30
That looks like an alien.
1:28:31
Speaker 2: Nah, they're super, super cool.
1:28:33
Speaker 1: I mean, look at that. That looks like we have
1:28:35
come to your planet to discuss your use of nuclear power.
1:28:40
Speaker 2: And he would talk in that very calm tone.
1:28:42
Speaker 1: That looks like something that would be very calm.
1:28:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a crazy story.
1:28:46
Speaker 1: But you know the John Lilly research with dolphins? Do
1:28:49
you know about that?
1:28:50
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Tell me about it.
1:28:51
Speaker 1: Okay, John Lilly is the guy who invented the sensory
1:28:53
deprivation tank.
1:28:55
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. You have one of those, don't you?
1:28:57
Speaker 1: Yes, we have one over here. John Lilly was the
1:29:00
man who was the inspiration for the movie Altered States.
1:29:03
Speaker 2: Okay.
1:29:04
Speaker 1: So John Lilly, who was this really interesting guy and
1:29:08
was famously like out there with psychedelics. Like he would
1:29:15
take intramuscular doses of ketamine. And jump in the sensory
1:29:18
deprivation tank.
1:29:19
Speaker 2: Oh, damn.
1:29:20
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:29:20
Speaker 2: Trying to unlock brain things.
1:29:22
Speaker 1: My friend Todd actually did it with him.
1:29:24
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
1:29:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:29:25
Speaker 1: So John Lilly, who was also a pioneer in interspecies communication.
1:29:30
So they were trying to figure out how to communicate
1:29:32
with dolphins. So they set up a house. And this
1:29:35
lady lived with the dolphins in the house to get
1:29:39
the dolphin and trying to coach the dolphin. Literally, she
1:29:42
lived in water. So the water was like, you know,
1:29:45
four feet deep. And she lived with this dolphin. The
1:29:48
problem was the dolphin was super horny.
1:29:51
Speaker 5: Oh, no.
1:29:51
Speaker 1: And so the only way that she could get this
1:29:54
dolphin to cooperate was she had to jerk him off.
1:29:56
Speaker 3: Yep.
1:29:57
Speaker 1: So she was jerking off the dolphin. And somehow or another,
1:30:00
they found out and they cut the funding for research.
1:30:03
Speaker 2: But she had to do it.
1:30:04
Speaker 1: That's what I said.
1:30:05
Speaker 2: You got to do it. That's the job.
1:30:06
Speaker 1: It seems like she liked it, though. Look at her.
1:30:08
The way she's hugging him. She's like, yeah. I mean,
1:30:11
after a while, she probably did enjoy it a little bit.
1:30:14
Speaker 2: I mean, what else are you going to do? You're
1:30:15
stuck in a tank with a dolphin.
1:30:17
Speaker 5: The girl who.
1:30:17
Speaker 1: Talked to dolphins. So is there a documentary on this? Yeah.
1:30:22
Speaker 3: Ooh.
1:30:22
Speaker 1: Is there a clip? Was it like blurry where you
1:30:26
see her hand moving up and down?
1:30:29
Speaker 2: A water turning white.
1:30:30
Speaker 1: So I guess– but if she jerked the dolphin off,
1:30:33
then the dolphin would try to talk to her. But
1:30:36
the thing was you can't really get them to– they
1:30:40
can't make the noises that we want them to make.
1:30:42
They don't have the ability to. Like, it could say, hi,
1:30:47
but it can't.
1:30:48
Speaker 2: Like, the vocal cords aren't there for it. Right, right, right.
1:30:50
That's one of the things where AI may actually start
1:30:53
to make a huge difference.
1:30:54
Speaker 1: Right.
1:30:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:30:55
Speaker 3: Right.
1:30:55
Speaker 2: Because they are able to decipher a lot of, like, cetacean, like,
1:30:59
dolphin and whale language now. And with enough of a database,
1:31:02
they'll start to be able to say, like, this means this,
1:31:04
this means this.
1:31:05
Speaker 1: Have they actively deciphered?
1:31:08
Speaker 2: So, it's coming up to a point. So, basically, you
1:31:09
know how AI works. You have to train it on something.
1:31:11
Speaker 1: Is this the lady? She looks like the kind of
1:31:14
lady that would do that.
1:31:15
Speaker 2: She's got a real dolphin jerk look to her.
1:31:18
Speaker 1: This is a crazy story. Listen to these orca whales
1:31:24
imitate human speech.
1:31:25
Speaker 3: No.
1:31:25
Speaker 5: It says it's responding.
1:31:26
Speaker 1: Let me hear it.
1:31:29
Speaker 2: Oh, there's your guy.
1:31:29
Speaker 1: There's my guy.
1:31:30
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:31:30
Speaker 1: Let me hear it. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Aw.
1:31:41
Speaker 3: Aw.
1:31:42
Speaker 2: It's getting there.
1:31:42
Speaker 1: It's trying.
1:31:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:31:45
Speaker 4: Whoa.
1:31:45
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Whoa.
1:31:50
Speaker 5: One, two.
1:32:01
Speaker 1: I bet what it wants to say is, let me go,
1:32:03
you fucking asshole. Put me back in.
1:32:07
Speaker 2: The ocean, you crazy bitch. Quit jerking me off and
1:32:13
put me back in the ocean.
1:32:16
Speaker 1: Maybe if they jerked off the killer whales, they wouldn't
1:32:18
have killed him.
1:32:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, good point. It's just like SeaWorld alone.
1:32:25
Speaker 1: It's so awful. And it wasn't until that documentary. What
1:32:30
was it called? Blackfish. Blackfish. Yeah. That was like the
1:32:32
first one where people went like, hey.
1:32:34
Speaker 2: It was really eye-opening. Yeah.
1:32:36
Speaker 1: We shouldn't support this at all. I mean, I can't
1:32:38
believe people still even go to fucking SeaWorld.
1:32:40
Speaker 2: It's pretty crazy. Because it's basically prison. Do you know
1:32:42
about those two in France that are trapped there?
1:32:45
Speaker 3: No.
1:32:46
Speaker 2: Oh, this is interesting. So there is basically a SeaWorld
1:32:48
equivalent in France. And the government shut it down. I
1:32:53
forget the– I'm sure we can figure it out, but
1:32:55
it was shut down, but then the dolphins and the
1:32:58
two orcas were not released. And the guy's like, these
1:33:00
are mine. I'm not releasing them, and I can't afford
1:33:03
to release them or move them. So they've just been
1:33:05
sitting in these abandoned tanks for, I want to say,
1:33:07
a year now, maybe more. Yeah, this is it here,
1:33:10
the race to save these two. Jamie, I don't know
1:33:14
if you can see if there's an aerial shot of it, but... Yeah,
1:33:16
there is. I just saw it. Yeah, so they're just
1:33:18
sitting in this thing. But it's closed. The guy can't
1:33:22
afford to feed them because nobody's visiting. And then I
1:33:25
believe the government just doesn't want to do anything about
1:33:27
it because they're like, we just wanted to shut you down.
1:33:29
We don't want to actually, like, do anything about it.
1:33:31
So there's just these two orcas sitting in these tanks.
1:33:34
Speaker 1: And how do they get food?
1:33:35
Speaker 2: I mean, he's feeding them, but he's, like, doing it
1:33:37
out of his pocket, and it's, like, few and far between. Oh, man. So, yeah,
1:33:41
it's a crazy... Yeah. The abandoned whales. And they're just
1:33:44
sitting in these tanks.
1:33:45
Speaker 1: We've had a, do you know Phil Demers is he's
1:33:48
a guy who, uh, he helped shut down Marine land
1:33:51
in Canada.
1:33:51
Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Yeah.
1:33:52
Speaker 1: Which was an awful, awful place.
1:33:54
Speaker 2: Bad facility.
1:33:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:33:55
Speaker 1: There's so many of these fucking places like that where
1:33:57
you see what they're doing and just like, Oh man,
1:34:00
if we could understand them. Yeah. And we, we could,
1:34:04
I think someday in the future, we're going to look
1:34:05
back at that the way people today look back at slavery.
1:34:08
Speaker 2: Oh, totally.
1:34:08
Speaker 1: We're going to say, these are intelligent creatures. They just,
1:34:11
They just don't have the ability to manipulate their environment
1:34:14
like we do. But like just dolphins, their cerebral cortex
1:34:18
is 40% larger than a human being's. So something's going
1:34:22
on in there, and you think it's okay to put
1:34:24
them in a swimming pool? That's crazy.
1:34:26
Speaker 2: Dude, it's the same thing like what I was talking
1:34:28
about elephants. Their EQ, their emotional intelligence, we can't even
1:34:31
comprehend it. The way those animals feel, like the highs
1:34:35
that an elephant experiences and the lows it experiences are
1:34:38
way bigger than the highs or lows that most humans,
1:34:41
I think any human can experience. Their EQ is way
1:34:44
bigger than ours. The trauma that they feel from losing
1:34:46
a loved one, or from being abused, or whatever it
1:34:49
happens to be, is like 10x what humans can even
1:34:52
emotionally comprehend.
1:34:53
Speaker 1: How do we know that?
1:34:54
Speaker 2: Based on their brain scans and whatnot. I don't know
1:34:57
the specifics of it, but because that part of their
1:34:59
brain is so much larger than ours. And so you
1:35:02
have these, they might not have the same like, computer
1:35:05
skills as we do mentally, but they have this emotional
1:35:08
intelligence that's like so much deeper and broader than ours,
1:35:11
at least that's my belief.
1:35:13
Speaker 1: It is a weird thing with us where we only
1:35:15
characterize intelligence as the ability to manipulate your environment.
1:35:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:35:20
Speaker 1: We want you to write a book. Right. I don't
1:35:22
trust you. You're real? You're really smart? Make a house.
1:35:25
Prove it. Why don't you– how come you don't have
1:35:27
a rocket ship?
1:35:27
Speaker 3: Right.
1:35:28
Speaker 2: Right.
1:35:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. You're so smart. Where's your phone?
1:35:30
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.
1:35:31
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it's crazy.
1:35:32
Speaker 1: It's weird, right?
1:35:33
Speaker 2: It's a weird way to look at things.
1:35:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like– I think there's a part of people
1:35:39
that recognize that this– direction that people like that this
1:35:44
classification of intelligence in that way is is wrong but
1:35:48
i don't i don't think we can really quantify it
1:35:50
yet and if ai really can decipher a dolphin language
1:35:55
orca language whale language if they really can and we
1:35:58
realize that they're actually communicating God, I would hope that
1:36:01
would change our approach to how we deal with those things.
1:36:04
Speaker 2: I think it would.
1:36:04
Speaker 1: Because I think they are sea people. They really do.
1:36:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:36:09
Speaker 1: They don't need to manipulate their environment. First of all,
1:36:12
they can travel 3D.
1:36:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:36:15
Speaker 1: They go up. They go down. They go across. They
1:36:17
can hold their breath for an hour. Yeah. They don't
1:36:19
need to make a house. No. Their food is everywhere.
1:36:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:36:22
Speaker 1: Also, they're at the top of the fucking food chain.
1:36:24
That's right. They're orcas.
1:36:26
Speaker 2: And they're nomadic. We are not nomadic by trade. So
1:36:30
we have to manipulate our environment to make it more comfortable.
1:36:33
Orcas are not.
1:36:34
Speaker 1: They move so fast they can make a sunfish explode.
1:36:38
Speaker 2: Straight up. Yeah, straight up. We're so slow.
1:36:41
Speaker 1: The fastest people, we just run into each other and
1:36:44
knock each other unconscious. That's what we could do.
1:36:46
Speaker 2: Fun to watch, though.
1:36:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:36:48
Speaker 2: Dude, but I want to go back to what you
1:36:50
said about, I agree, by the way, about orcas and
1:36:52
captivity and whales and things like that. There's this huge
1:36:55
anti-zoo movement that I just don't agree with, though. Like,
1:36:59
I believe, I agree with you that in the future
1:37:02
we'll go, why did we keep animals the way we did?
1:37:04
And when you look at old zoos and concrete boxes
1:37:06
and stuff, but there's so much good that animals in
1:37:09
captivity have done. Saving species, keeping things alive, connecting kids
1:37:13
to nature.
1:37:13
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:37:14
Speaker 2: There's a is a lot of gray area there's tiger
1:37:16
king and there's fucking san diego zoo you know what
1:37:19
i mean there's a lot of nuance to it san diego.
1:37:21
Speaker 1: Zoo is an excellent example of a.
1:37:23
Speaker 2: Really great zoo it's unbelievable it's incredible i've been to
1:37:25
that place before yeah um but i also went to
1:37:28
that wolf place with you yeah and that made me
1:37:30
sad i know yeah i know we went there i
1:37:32
was bummed out man but at least they're rescuing them
1:37:34
you know like i know but they also cut their
1:37:36
balls off yeah that bum me out hardcore otherwise they
1:37:40
all fight I mean but that's the gray area that
1:37:42
you have like what's the alternative you know it's like
1:37:45
they die let them loose but then none of but
1:37:47
only a few of them were pure wolves you can't
1:37:49
just let loose a wolf dog you know because then
1:37:51
you're muddying jeans it's such a complicated thing.
1:37:54
Speaker 1: Well isn't that the whole reason why black wolves exist
1:37:57
in the first place I think black wolves exist because
1:37:59
it's a trait that they got from domesticated dogs.
1:38:02
Speaker 2: I read that and then I read it was false
1:38:04
and then I read it again. I don't know what
1:38:05
the truth behind that is.
1:38:06
Speaker 1: Let's put it into perplexity.
1:38:07
Speaker 2: We should.
1:38:08
Speaker 1: They'll probably say it's a Rogan-esque claim.
1:38:10
Speaker 2: As stated on today's podcast.
1:38:13
Speaker 5: How do you want to word that so you kind
1:38:14
of get a good response?
1:38:16
Speaker 1: That's interesting. How do you word that? Would you say,
1:38:20
is it true that black wolves inherited that trait from
1:38:27
domesticated dogs because that is one thing that absolutely has
1:38:31
happened is that there's been interbreeding between them.
1:38:33
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
1:38:33
Speaker 1: And not just on purpose.
1:38:35
Speaker 2: No, no.
1:38:35
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:38:36
Speaker 2: It happens.
1:38:37
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:38:37
Speaker 2: I mean, you get coy wolves.
1:38:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. Right, right.
1:38:39
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Is the genetic mutation of a black fur
1:38:42
color brought about by domestication? Yes.
1:38:46
Speaker 1: Okay.
1:38:46
Speaker 5: Well, hold on. Here's a thought.
1:38:48
Speaker 2: Sorry. I've thrown a lot at you, Jamie.
1:38:53
Speaker 1: Is the trait of black wolves, did they inherit that
1:38:57
from domesticated dogs?
1:39:00
Speaker 5: Edit my thing then. Is that good enough or not?
1:39:04
Speaker 3: Eh.
1:39:04
Speaker 1: From domesticated dogs.
1:39:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, see what it says.
1:39:11
Speaker 1: Let's see.
1:39:12
Speaker 5: If you're not pointed enough, it'll start guessing.
1:39:16
Speaker 1: I love watching it work. Where it's like spinning?
1:39:19
Speaker 2: Yes.
1:39:19
Speaker 1: This is well supported by genetic research. Black coat color
1:39:23
in North American wolves comes from mutation in the K locusts,
1:39:26
specifically a three base pair deletion in the CBD-103. I
1:39:35
don't know what that little... thing is.
1:39:37
Speaker 2: I don't know.
1:39:37
Speaker 1: Defense in gene.
1:39:39
Speaker 2: Beta defense.
1:39:40
Speaker 1: Is that what it is?
1:39:41
Speaker 2: I think so.
1:39:41
Speaker 1: Produces a dominantly inherited melanistic phenotype. The mutation originated in
1:39:46
dogs and moved into wolves through hybridization, not the other
1:39:50
way around. Interesting. 2009 study by Anderson et al. First
1:39:54
identified the KB black allele in wolves is derived from
1:39:59
dog-wolf interbreeding. Follow-up work analyzing 331 wolves and 20 dogs
1:40:03
found that North American wolf.
1:40:09
How do you say that word? Haplotypes? Oh, haplotype. Yeah.
1:40:13
Are monophyletic, meaning a single... I feel like you're my teacher.
1:40:18
Speaker 2: A single... Good job, Dale.
1:40:21
Speaker 1: Introgression event from dogs most likely seeded the allele through
1:40:27
the continent, probably in the Yukon or Northwest Territories. You know, I...
1:40:34
went to where colossal i know made the dire.
1:40:37
Speaker 2: Wolves ben texted me when you guys went that was
1:40:40
an interesting experience was that cool to see yes i
1:40:43
haven't even seen him i know it's a whole hush
1:40:45
hush i brought.
1:40:45
Speaker 1: My youngest daughter and she was cuddling with the four
1:40:48
month old wolf well there you go you can cuddle
1:40:50
with them when they're four months old yeah up until
1:40:51
a certain point but it was like a puppy and
1:40:53
it was still huge right it was no no no
1:40:56
no it was pretty small yeah it's like uh 40 pounds. Okay.
1:41:02
It was so fucking cute, man.
1:41:04
Speaker 2: She was so sweet.
1:41:05
Speaker 1: She was so sweet. She would cuddle with you and
1:41:07
you'd pet her and she'd kiss you.
1:41:09
Speaker 2: That's cool.
1:41:10
Speaker 1: It was like a fucking dog, man.
1:41:11
Speaker 2: That is a Romulus. There you go.
1:41:13
Speaker 1: Oh my God. She's so sweet. But the males, they
1:41:16
had two males that had, that's her name. That's right.
1:41:21
Khaleesi's the girl. So there's Romulus. Look how cute they
1:41:25
are when they're little babies. Remus, Romulus, and then Khaleesi,
1:41:28
the girl.
1:41:29
Speaker 2: That was pretty cool.
1:41:30
Speaker 1: So Khaleesi was the one that we got to cuddle with.
1:41:33
Speaker 2: Man, they're cute.
1:41:34
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. She was so fucking adorable. But you
1:41:36
could only hang out with her for a little while,
1:41:38
and then they got big.
1:41:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:41:40
Speaker 1: And now they're big.
1:41:41
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:41:41
Speaker 1: He sends me pictures. So they were like that when
1:41:44
we went there.
1:41:44
Speaker 2: Like that size picture?
1:41:45
Speaker 1: Like that size. That's already, yeah.
1:41:47
Speaker 2: I don't know if I let my kids in with
1:41:48
a wolf that size.
1:41:49
Speaker 1: Well, they kept away from you.
1:41:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:41:51
Speaker 1: And we were in a large contained area.
1:41:53
Speaker 5: Uh-huh.
1:41:54
Speaker 1: But we got to go out with them.
1:41:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:41:57
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:41:57
Speaker 1: And they just kind of hang out and look at you.
1:41:59
They keep away from you for the most part. But
1:42:01
she didn't.
1:42:02
Speaker 2: She just came right up.
1:42:03
Speaker 1: But she can't be with them yet.
1:42:05
Speaker 5: With the males?
1:42:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:42:06
Speaker 1: She was too little.
1:42:06
Speaker 2: Interesting.
1:42:07
Speaker 1: It was too, like, you know, they didn't want her
1:42:08
to get killed. It was just too sketchy.
1:42:10
Speaker 2: She was tiny.
1:42:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:42:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
1:42:12
Speaker 1: And she was, you know, she was still a baby still.
1:42:15
But they were older. I think they were a year
1:42:18
or close to a year. But they could hang out
1:42:20
with them for the first, like, five or six months,
1:42:22
I think.
1:42:22
Speaker 5: Oh, wow.
1:42:22
Speaker 1: And then after a while, they just got different. There's
1:42:24
also some stuff about them that they didn't even know
1:42:27
dire wolves had, like the mane, which is very interesting.
1:42:29
Speaker 2: They're getting a big arch mane.
1:42:31
Speaker 1: They have a mane. Oh, wow. Almost like a lion's mane.
1:42:33
Speaker 5: Oh, wow.
1:42:34
Speaker 1: Which they didn't know, and they didn't know they were
1:42:36
going to be white either.
1:42:37
Speaker 2: Now, is that a variant from their genetic mutation work,
1:42:40
or is that something that's just expressing itself?
1:42:42
Speaker 1: Very good question that you would have to talk to
1:42:44
a geneticist about because there's a lot of people that
1:42:46
don't even agree they're actually dire wolves.
1:42:47
Speaker 2: A lot. Yeah, a lot.
1:42:49
Speaker 1: They're essentially saying that what you've done is you've taken
1:42:51
the traits of dire wolves and you've made them. Be
1:42:54
expressed in a gray wolf. This is a gray wolf.
1:42:56
Speaker 2: But that's what Beth says they've done. Exactly. Do you
1:42:58
know what I mean? Like she's not– they're not hiding that.
1:42:59
They're like we're trying to fill a niche. We're trying
1:43:02
to make something.
1:43:03
Speaker 4: Yes.
1:43:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:43:03
Speaker 1: But she's also said that– I don't want to mischaracterize.
1:43:07
But essentially what they're saying is– but that's what a
1:43:10
dire wolf was.
1:43:11
Speaker 2: Right.
1:43:11
Speaker 1: Like that they are a wolf that has all of
1:43:14
these traits. Right. Like the size is the same. The
1:43:17
look is the same. You can get technical and say, no,
1:43:20
you've taken a gray wolf and made it– but yes–
1:43:23
But they got those genes specifically from dead direwolves.
1:43:27
Speaker 2: Right, right.
1:43:28
Speaker 1: So it's like, well, is it our own classification of
1:43:32
these things that we're disputing?
1:43:33
Speaker 2: Right.
1:43:33
Speaker 1: Because we can't just decide, like, I call this a
1:43:37
direwolf and that's what it is. Like, the genes don't
1:43:40
give a fuck what labels you put on them.
1:43:42
Speaker 2: Not at all.
1:43:42
Speaker 1: You know? And if you make a dinosaur, like, that's
1:43:44
not a real T-Rex. It ate everyone in the city. Right.
1:43:47
It's a real T-Rex. It just took over a fucking city.
1:43:49
Speaker 3: Right.
1:43:49
Speaker 1: And it just... Ate everyone in a VW bus.
1:43:52
Speaker 2: It's a 30-foot tall lizard. It's a dinosaur. It doesn't
1:43:54
matter how you shape it.
1:43:56
Speaker 1: Oh, the woolly mouse is really cool, too.
1:43:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're really neat. Ben told me one day I
1:44:00
could have a woolly mouse, so I'm holding him to that.
1:44:04
Speaker 1: It's really interesting seeing the dire wolves, though, and just imagining...
1:44:08
What was it like when those things are just roaming
1:44:10
the earth?
1:44:11
Speaker 2: I know.
1:44:11
Speaker 1: Because it's like a 200 pound wolf that's all white
1:44:13
with like thick fur and a mane like a lion.
1:44:17
Speaker 2: Dude, speaking of roaming the earth, have you heard the
1:44:19
theory about how sloth bears stopped? Sorry, not sloth bears.
1:44:24
What were the big cave bears?
1:44:25
Speaker 1: Short face.
1:44:26
Speaker 2: Short face bears stopped human immigration.
1:44:28
Speaker 1: Yes.
1:44:28
Speaker 2: Have you read about that? Yeah. That's really cool.
1:44:30
Speaker 1: Totally makes sense.
1:44:31
Speaker 2: It totally does. They just stood there waiting for people
1:44:34
like salmon to cross the Bering land bridge. And they're like, well,
1:44:37
it's that time of year again.
1:44:39
Speaker 1: Also, like, who would do that knowing that those things
1:44:42
are out there? That thing was so big.
1:44:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:44:45
Speaker 1: It's like double the size of a polar bear.
1:44:46
Speaker 2: It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy.
1:44:48
Speaker 1: Twice large polar bear that can run 50 miles. Look
1:44:52
at that thing.
1:44:53
Speaker 2: I don't care how smart we are. That is not
1:44:55
something you want to face.
1:44:56
Speaker 1: Right. Even if you have a gun, like good luck.
1:44:59
If you have a nine millimeter handgun and you run
1:45:01
across a grizzly bear, you're dead. Yeah. It's not going
1:45:04
to be enough firepower.
1:45:05
Speaker 3: No.
1:45:05
Speaker 1: So what are you going to hit that thing with?
1:45:08
Speaker 2: Well, they had rocks. So, you know, that's good. Rocks
1:45:10
and spears.
1:45:10
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:45:11
Speaker 2: Rocks.
1:45:12
Speaker 1: Oh, rocks. I mean, when they first started coming across,
1:45:14
did they even have fucking bows and arrows yet?
1:45:17
Speaker 2: I don't know.
1:45:18
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:45:18
Speaker 2: But I mean, spears for sure. But like that.
1:45:21
Speaker 1: But then there's the real question. Is that the only
1:45:25
way people got here?
1:45:26
Speaker 3: Right.
1:45:27
Speaker 1: When you see the white sands footprints that are 22,000
1:45:29
years old. And you start going, okay, well, this predates
1:45:32
the Ice Age.
1:45:33
Speaker 2: It's before any humans were known anywhere in the New World. Yeah.
1:45:37
Speaker 1: So it's like, well, what's going on there?
1:45:38
Speaker 3: Right.
1:45:38
Speaker 1: Because this is actual human footprints.
1:45:40
Speaker 3: Right.
1:45:41
Speaker 1: That have been dated to 22,000 years ago.
1:45:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:45:43
Speaker 1: And that's just all we found. Yeah.
1:45:45
Speaker 3: Right.
1:45:45
Speaker 1: That's just because they left footprints.
1:45:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:45:47
Speaker 1: Like, that doesn't mean there wasn't something there 50,000 years
1:45:50
before or 100,000 years before.
1:45:51
Speaker 2: Exactly.
1:45:52
Speaker 1: And then there's in Mexico this evidence that looks like
1:45:56
predation on mammoth bones that By humans. Oh, really?
1:46:00
Speaker 2: Like spearheads and things?
1:46:01
Speaker 1: Like carvings into mammoth bones.
1:46:04
Speaker 2: No way.
1:46:04
Speaker 1: It looks like they're broken open to get marrow.
1:46:06
Speaker 5: Oh, interesting.
1:46:06
Speaker 1: Very disputed, right? Because there's also some people that think
1:46:10
it could have been. Like some rocks falling on the bones?
1:46:13
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, sure.
1:46:14
Speaker 5: I'm not sure how this is happening, but it does
1:46:16
seem to interfere.
1:46:17
Speaker 2: Oh, let me write this up for Joe. Fuck off.
1:46:20
Speaker 5: I'm going to have to figure something out. I'm going
1:46:22
to have to erase some stuff.
1:46:23
Speaker 1: We're going to have to get a separate computer that
1:46:26
we only use for perplexity. What is the question?
1:46:29
Speaker 5: Oh, sorry. Well, how would humans have contested short-faced bears
1:46:33
on the Bering Strait?
1:46:34
Speaker 2: Let me write this up for Joe.
1:46:35
Speaker 1: Fuck off, man. You're like a baby.
1:46:39
Speaker 2: Grounded into the actual evidence. The wall of monster bears
1:46:41
kept humans out of North America doesn't hold up any longer, apparently.
1:46:47
Speaker 5: When I was finding it, people said it was a
1:46:48
myth that a scientist commented on a paper that doesn't necessarily...
1:46:53
He could have thought that, but... They didn't have evidence
1:46:56
for it.
1:46:57
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. Like the idea of a bear line. No,
1:47:01
because the problem is bears, they would have to eat
1:47:04
so much to sustain that kind of mass.
1:47:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:47:08
Speaker 1: That there couldn't really have been a lot of them.
1:47:10
Speaker 2: No, but it sure makes sense that they were predating
1:47:12
upon people when they came across.
1:47:14
Speaker 1: Oh, hold up.
1:47:14
Speaker 2: Hold up.
1:47:15
Speaker 1: Go back. Back up here. This guy is saying something kooky.
1:47:18
He's saying that a hypercarnivore built for pacing long distance.
1:47:23
He argued that it was primarily a scavenger using its size,
1:47:26
sense of smell, and long-legged gait to kleptoperitocyte.
1:47:32
Speaker 2: Parasitize. You got it.
1:47:34
Speaker 1: There it is. Kills from lions, dire wolves, and scimitar
1:47:37
cats rather than the rundown prey itself. That doesn't even
1:47:40
make sense. Long-legged gait would make it faster.
1:47:43
Speaker 2: I heard about this. So, yeah, the theory is that
1:47:47
short-faced bear would come in and rob a kill, like
1:47:50
basically what a hyena does to lions.
1:47:52
Speaker 1: Or what wolves do to mountain lions.
1:47:53
Speaker 2: Yes, but I think it– to me, it doesn't add up.
1:47:56
Speaker 1: Well, you know what grizzly bears– chase down moose and
1:47:59
kill them yes plenty of video i watched a video
1:48:02
yesterday of it.
1:48:03
Speaker 2: They've also shown now that hyenas are incredibly efficient predators
1:48:06
and until like 10 years ago we thought hyenas were
1:48:08
only scavengers or 50 i mean it's longer than that
1:48:10
but you know what i mean right now they show
1:48:12
they have like a 30 success rate which is very
1:48:14
high yeah there's.
1:48:15
Speaker 1: No reason why they wouldn't be if they're carnivores like
1:48:18
why would they be completely relying on other animals to
1:48:20
do the work for them when they have that kind
1:48:22
of biting power?
1:48:24
Speaker 2: They're just opportunistic, like old carnivores.
1:48:26
Speaker 1: And they move as packs. Yeah. They work as pack animals,
1:48:28
so they kind of move like dogs.
1:48:30
Speaker 2: If you're going to get food, get food. Do you
1:48:32
know what I mean? If you can kill it, kill it.
1:48:34
If you can fight something off for it, fight something
1:48:36
off for it. Like, it doesn't really matter. That's how
1:48:38
carnivores are.
1:48:39
Speaker 1: What does this tell you? What are you saying?
1:48:40
Speaker 5: It says this is how they hunted brown bears. They
1:48:42
probably would have done it the same way.
1:48:43
Speaker 1: Oh, get them in the dens?
1:48:44
Speaker 5: And then, yeah, burn it. Burn the entrance with fire.
1:48:47
Probably kill the babies.
1:48:49
Speaker 1: Right. But that's if you had access to fire.
1:48:53
Speaker 5: If they had an atlatl and a spear at best
1:48:55
and maybe some fire that they could maybe move, you know.
1:48:57
Speaker 1: Transporting fire. You know how close you have to be
1:48:59
to hit something with an atlatl?
1:49:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:49:01
Speaker 1: Okay. There's some videos that are really interesting where they're
1:49:06
showing people realistic scenarios where a bear is charging you.
1:49:10
and they pull the show out yeah showing bear spray
1:49:13
and guns like showing them like a mat like imagine
1:49:16
you have a 10 millimeter semi-automatic pistol and you have
1:49:20
to rack it so you have to rack a slide
1:49:22
yeah so the gun the bears coming you have to
1:49:24
draw the gun and Rack it.
1:49:27
Speaker 2: Take the safety off.
1:49:28
Speaker 1: And then point it towards the animal and squeeze it.
1:49:30
You're dead.
1:49:30
Speaker 2: You're done.
1:49:31
Speaker 1: You're already dead.
1:49:31
Speaker 2: It's like that.
1:49:33
Speaker 1: It has to be like 100 yards away from you
1:49:35
as it starts running for you to get a shot off.
1:49:38
Speaker 2: I think the idea is the bear gives you some sign.
1:49:41
Speaker 1: Look at that bullshit ass thing.
1:49:45
Speaker 2: I've tried one. It is impossible to throw accurately.
1:49:48
Speaker 1: Well, that's true, but you're not practiced in it, right?
1:49:52
Speaker 2: No, of course not.
1:49:53
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:49:53
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen people that are super accurate with spears.
1:49:57
Speaker 2: Isn't your buddy Adam Greentree, doesn't he do the atlatl?
1:50:00
Speaker 1: He might. He's such a psycho.
1:50:04
Speaker 2: I think I've seen him toss them around.
1:50:05
Speaker 1: He probably knows how to do it.
1:50:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. But I mean, it's not a good weapon. No.
1:50:10
Speaker 1: I mean, it's definitely better than no weapon.
1:50:12
Speaker 2: I mean, what's the advantage over throwing a spear? It
1:50:14
just goes further?
1:50:15
Speaker 1: Mechanical leverage. Yeah. So I have a thing like that
1:50:18
for my dog. It's like a thing.
1:50:22
Speaker 2: With the ball.
1:50:23
Speaker 1: That has a ball on the end of it. And
1:50:25
it's so easy to not blow your shoulder out. You
1:50:27
can throw it pretty fucking far.
1:50:28
Speaker 5: Right.
1:50:29
Speaker 1: And every time I do it, I was like, wow,
1:50:32
of course this is way better.
1:50:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:50:33
Speaker 1: You have this extra leverage with this thing. And then
1:50:36
also you can kind of whip it with your wrist
1:50:38
and you get all this action. There you go. You
1:50:40
would do the same thing with a spear, with a dottolatto.
1:50:43
It makes sense. Yeah. It makes sense.
1:50:44
Speaker 2: Seems hard to be accurate, though.
1:50:46
Speaker 1: Super hard. Well, it's hard to be accurate with a
1:50:48
traditional bow. Right. You know, it's so hard.
1:50:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:50:51
Speaker 1: Like, you know, I shoot a compound bow.
1:50:53
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
1:50:54
Speaker 1: And a compound bow is... There's so much technology involved. Oh, yeah.
1:51:00
First of all, I have a laser range finder.
1:51:02
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
1:51:02
Speaker 1: And I'll range something. It says 52 yards.
1:51:04
Speaker 5: Then....
1:51:05
Speaker 1: I go to my sight tape that's on my sight
1:51:09
on my bow, and I dial it to 52 yards
1:51:12
because I use archery software that measures the weight of
1:51:16
my arrow. So I have this 500 grain arrow, and
1:51:19
then it has the speed. So it's 390 feet per
1:51:22
second from a 500 grain arrow. And then I put
1:51:25
it into this computer, and it spits out a sight tape.
1:51:28
So that I can move my pins specifically so I
1:51:31
can put it in a quarter at 52 yards if
1:51:34
I was accurate enough.
1:51:35
Speaker 5: I'm not.
1:51:36
Speaker 1: No one really is.
1:51:36
Speaker 2: Sure.
1:51:37
Speaker 1: Except like really excellent world-class archers.
1:51:39
Speaker 3: Sure.
1:51:40
Speaker 1: With a traditional bow, you're just guessing. Yeah. So you're
1:51:43
just guessing the arc of the arrow. And then you
1:51:45
have to think, okay, I'm buying arrows, right, that are
1:51:49
made by a guy who's measuring them.
1:51:52
Speaker 3: Right.
1:51:52
Speaker 1: They're all down to like they're within two grains of
1:51:55
each other.
1:51:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:51:56
Speaker 1: And they have, like, inserts. My front of center is
1:51:59
very high.
1:51:59
Speaker 2: Perfect aerodynamics.
1:52:00
Speaker 1: And they're made out of carbon fiber. These fucking arrows,
1:52:04
they're making them by hand. It's a stick. And then
1:52:06
they're making the arrowheads by hand.
1:52:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:52:08
Speaker 1: So they could be off each one of them. So
1:52:11
you're just guessing where that fucking arrow is going to go.
1:52:14
And you have to shoot every day to get a
1:52:16
real sense of, like, what the drop is at a
1:52:19
certain distance. And then you have to kind of judge
1:52:21
how far is he. Is he 20 yards? Is he
1:52:23
30 yards? Is he 50 yards? So even with modern
1:52:28
traditional bows, and that sounds like a.
1:52:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you mean.
1:52:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:52:31
Speaker 2: Recurves and long bows.
1:52:32
Speaker 1: Right, right. I mean, that sounds like an oxymoron, but
1:52:36
they are still traditional in the sense of you're not
1:52:39
using cams.
1:52:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:52:40
Speaker 3: Right?
1:52:40
Speaker 1: You don't have, like, a cam that rolls over and
1:52:43
it's a mechanical advantage.
1:52:44
Speaker 3: Yep.
1:52:44
Speaker 1: Fiberglass limbs and all this jazz, you're using like wood still, right?
1:52:49
Even with those things, you're still buying arrows and the
1:52:52
arrows weigh the same amount.
1:52:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're perfect.
1:52:54
Speaker 1: So if you did that over and over again in
1:52:57
your yard, you did it every day for three hours
1:52:59
a day, you would get a sense of how far.
1:53:02
And then if you did it a bunch, you'd get
1:53:05
an idea of judging distances. And there's like little tricks.
1:53:09
There's certain archery tournaments where you're not allowed to use
1:53:12
a range finder. Oh, really? Yeah. And so the idea
1:53:15
is you have to develop the skill of being– and
1:53:18
I think these tournaments probably started back when range finders
1:53:22
didn't exist.
1:53:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:53:22
Speaker 1: And then when range finders did exist, they're like, nah,
1:53:25
that's cheating.
1:53:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, keep that out.
1:53:26
Speaker 1: Right.
1:53:27
Speaker 2: And then the targets are at various– Yes.
1:53:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense. And so guys develop a very
1:53:32
good– way of measuring distance sure and what essentially they
1:53:37
do is they they can pretty accurately judge five yards
1:53:40
and then they double that and then they triple that
1:53:42
and then they try to figure it and they get
1:53:44
within like 10 or 15 yards sure but you you
1:53:46
know that's a lot even with a compound bow you
1:53:49
know that drop of 10 or 15 yards is pretty
1:53:52
significant even something that's going 300 feet a second but
1:53:55
when you're doing with a fucking wooden arrow that you
1:53:59
made yourself a With a stone tip like one of
1:54:02
these bad boys. I have one here somewhere. Somewhere on
1:54:05
this desk. Yeah. Here it is. Oh, cool. Somebody made that.
1:54:09
So if you make that one and then somebody else
1:54:11
makes one right next to it, it might be 15
1:54:14
grains different. It might be 50 grains different.
1:54:16
Speaker 2: And the aerodynamics are different. Like the flint knapping is
1:54:19
completely different. Yeah.
1:54:21
Speaker 1: This thing's not rare. That's not good. That thing would
1:54:25
plane like a motherfucker if you shot it out of
1:54:27
a really good bow.
1:54:29
Speaker 2: And not to mention the stress of if I don't
1:54:31
kill this thing, I'm either going to die or I'm
1:54:33
not going to eat or, you know, all the other things.
1:54:36
Speaker 1: And you have a 15-foot bear.
1:54:38
Speaker 3: Right.
1:54:39
Speaker 1: Right. Or probably bigger. Like, what is the height of
1:54:42
a short-faced bear or the length? Like, what is a
1:54:46
big short-faced bear?
1:54:47
Speaker 2: Have you seen those caves they have in, like, Missouri
1:54:49
where— There's still claw marks from short-faced bears and things.
1:54:53
Speaker 3: Really?
1:54:53
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
1:54:54
Speaker 2: You can go visit like middens of them in Missouri.
1:54:56
Speaker 1: Where they used to live. Where they carved out a
1:54:58
cave like a den?
1:54:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, where they lived in dens and you could see
1:55:01
their claw marks in the mud and everything else. It's amazing.
1:55:03
Speaker 1: 11 to 12 feet. 11 to 12 feet. I think
1:55:08
they probably have to be bigger than that because Kodiak
1:55:10
bears get that big. Kodiak bears can get 12 feet.
1:55:15
Speaker 2: Do they get that big?
1:55:16
Speaker 5: Yeah. Kodiak?
1:55:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:55:18
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe they're measuring them squirrelly because, you know,
1:55:20
like a lot of times they measure stuff to try
1:55:22
to make it seem bigger. So what is the largest
1:55:24
Kodiak bear ever killed? Let's look that up. Largest Kodiak bear.
1:55:34
Largest Kodiak bear ever killed. Ever recorded.
1:55:39
Speaker 5: There you go.
1:55:39
Speaker 1: Recorded.
1:55:40
Speaker 3: Same thing.
1:55:41
Speaker 1: Okay. They have it by weight. It's 1,656 pounds, which is,
1:55:47
by the way, holy shit. That's insane.
1:55:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, nearly a one-ton bear. Yeah.
1:55:55
Speaker 1: That's so crazy. The hind foot measured 18 inches. Oh, God.
1:56:01
How tall was it? How long was it?
1:56:02
Speaker 5: It was 500 pounds more than that.
1:56:04
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:56:05
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:56:06
Speaker 5: What?
1:56:06
Speaker 2: Over a ton. In a zoo?
1:56:07
Speaker 5: It was a zoo, yeah.
1:56:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, my God. But he might have been fat.
1:56:10
Speaker 2: He was fat.
1:56:11
Speaker 1: He might have been a short fatso. So what is
1:56:18
the longest, the largest length?
1:56:20
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he's sitting, I think I've seen this bear,
1:56:23
and he's sitting in the Anchorage Airport when you land there.
1:56:26
Speaker 1: Oh, there's a big one. Is that that bear?
1:56:27
Speaker 2: I think that's the largest bear ever killed.
1:56:28
Speaker 1: I've seen that.
1:56:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:56:29
Speaker 1: I've seen that in Anchorage. That thing's nuts.
1:56:32
Speaker 2: At the airport there?
1:56:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:56:34
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:56:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in like a glass case or something. Yeah.
1:56:37
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that's the biggest bear ever shot.
1:56:40
Speaker 1: Look at that one. Ever recorded 2,130 pounds.
1:56:45
Speaker 2: No length measurements anywhere.
1:56:48
Speaker 1: That is so big. That's so crazy. The short-faced bear,
1:56:53
they don't even really know how much it weighed. They're
1:56:56
just basing it on the bones.
1:56:57
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:56:58
Speaker 1: They don't have a dead one.
1:56:59
Speaker 3: No.
1:57:01
Speaker 1: So that photo up there, that's Fred Bear with his
1:57:04
1962 world record Alaskan bear. Go back to that photo
1:57:07
that you just were at before. Yeah, look at that.
1:57:11
That's his stuffed bear.
1:57:13
Speaker 2: Jeez.
1:57:13
Speaker 1: He shot that with an old bullshit bow. Yeah. Look
1:57:16
at his bow.
1:57:17
Speaker 2: The recurve bow, yeah.
1:57:18
Speaker 1: That bow sucks.
1:57:19
Speaker 2: Wooden arrows. Wooden arrows.
1:57:22
Speaker 1: That's so crazy. He was the first, like, modern bow hunter.
1:57:27
Speaker 2: Oh, really?
1:57:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, he's the guy who popularized bow hunting.
1:57:30
Fred Bear is a legend. Oh, interesting. In the bow
1:57:32
hunting world. And, I mean, you got to think, how
1:57:37
good does life have to be where you go, let's
1:57:40
try to do something that people used to do before guns.
1:57:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. Just because.
1:57:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. Because it wasn't really a thing that people practiced.
1:57:47
Speaker 2: Right.
1:57:47
Speaker 1: Like, The food had to be so readily available that
1:57:51
we had to say, let's make it harder to get food.
1:57:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, go backwards.
1:57:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have so much food. Let's make it more difficult.
1:57:59
And then there's guys today that they don't like compound
1:58:02
bows because they're too easy.
1:58:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're using recurve only. That's crazy.
1:58:07
Speaker 1: My friend Aaron Snyder, who's like a world-famous bowhunter went
1:58:11
back to using a recurve bow.
1:58:13
Speaker 2: Really?
1:58:13
Speaker 1: Because it was killing too many things with a compound bow.
1:58:15
Felt like it was too easy.
1:58:16
Speaker 2: But that's what happens, right, is these guys master their
1:58:19
craft when they spend all that time on it. And
1:58:21
then they're like, how do I make the challenge harder
1:58:23
on myself?
1:58:23
Speaker 1: Also, they're competing with other world-class bowhunters. Like, they're all like,
1:58:28
who's the man?
1:58:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bit of an ego stroke thing.
1:58:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a little bit of that. But it's also
1:58:33
like that's how they get good in the first place. Like,
1:58:35
there's a weird thing about people in competition is You
1:58:38
can say competition is bad. Like, okay, are you saying
1:58:40
that on your phone? Because how do you think you
1:58:42
got a phone? You got a phone because somebody is
1:58:44
competing with other people and they developed a phone. It's
1:58:47
just a different kind of competition.
1:58:48
Speaker 2: I think competition is essential to human culture.
1:58:52
Speaker 1: It's certainly essential to progress. Yeah. And this is why
1:58:55
socialism is never going to work.
1:58:56
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:58:56
Speaker 1: You've got to reward people.
1:58:58
Speaker 4: Yeah.
1:58:58
Speaker 1: And if they're not rewarded, they're not going to work
1:58:59
hard enough to do anything really spectacular.
1:59:01
Speaker 2: Why bother?
1:59:02
Speaker 1: So you're never going to get a laptop.
1:59:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:59:03
Speaker 1: It would have never happened.
1:59:04
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:59:04
Speaker 1: You would have never had a high-speed internet.
1:59:06
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:59:06
Speaker 1: Somebody has to profit wildly.
1:59:09
Speaker 2: Yes.
1:59:09
Speaker 1: For them to be enthusiastic about spending 17 hours a
1:59:12
day making something like that.
1:59:14
Speaker 2: But that's the joy of competition paying off. Yeah.
1:59:16
Speaker 3: Right?
1:59:16
Speaker 2: It's like, not so much with bow hunting, but if
1:59:19
you're competitive as... A person to the point that you
1:59:22
succeed the most at developing a phone or a cup
1:59:24
or whatever it happens to be, you win and you
1:59:26
get paid the most.
1:59:26
Speaker 1: We just have to have regulations to make sure that
1:59:28
those people don't run amok and then take over entire countries.
1:59:32
Speaker 2: And become a monopoly.
1:59:33
Speaker 5: Yeah.
1:59:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:59:34
Speaker 1: What was going on with Microsoft in the 1990s? Remember
1:59:37
all those? Remember that?
1:59:38
Speaker 2: No, how were they taking over?
1:59:40
Speaker 1: Bill Gates was a maniac. Still is. But before, people
1:59:44
think of Bill Gates now. Well, now I think COVID
1:59:46
kind of ruined people's impressions of him. Now they think
1:59:49
of him as a vaccine pusher. But also as a
1:59:53
philanthropic capitalist where he's doing philanthropy that makes millions and
1:59:56
millions of dollars for him.
1:59:57
Speaker 2: Didn't he also put out that anti-protein film? Wasn't that him?
2:00:01
Do you know what I'm talking about? I think Bill
2:00:03
Gates' wife.
2:00:03
Speaker 1: Was it an anti-protein film?
2:00:04
Speaker 2: Bill Gates, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bill Gates' wife.
2:00:07
Is vegan, I believe. And he funded some Netflix documentary
2:00:11
all on how bodybuilders get huge without protein.
2:00:13
Speaker 1: Are you thinking about James Cameron?
2:00:15
Speaker 2: Am I thinking about James Cameron?
2:00:17
Speaker 1: I know James Cameron's wife is vegan.
2:00:20
Speaker 2: I might be mixing them up.
2:00:21
Speaker 1: You're talking about Game Changers, the vegan documentary? Yes.
2:00:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:00:25
Speaker 2: With the huge jacked guy being like, I never touch protein.
2:00:29
Speaker 1: It turns out the problem, I think... If you're looking
2:00:33
at that from an ethical perspective and you're saying factory
2:00:36
farming is bad, I'm on your page.
2:00:38
Speaker 2: Totally.
2:00:38
Speaker 1: I'm with you.
2:00:39
Speaker 2: But that had an agenda.
2:00:40
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was a clear agenda. Also just not accurate.
2:00:43
Speaker 2: Anyway, I pirated your thing on Bill Gates though. Sorry.
2:00:46
Speaker 1: So the point was during the 1990s, he was– there
2:00:52
was all these trials where they had these monopolistic practices.
2:00:57
Speaker 2: OK.
2:00:57
Speaker 1: And they were buying up competition or destroying competition.
2:01:01
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:01:03
Speaker 2: Just anybody that developed any computer.
2:01:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, anybody that developed browsers that competed with Microsoft stuff.
2:01:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:01:11
Speaker 1: Here is landmark 1990s trials refer to United States versus
2:01:15
Microsoft Corporation. Massive antitrust lawsuit filed by U.S. Department of
2:01:19
Justice in 20 states. Key elements included browser war integration,
2:01:25
the antitrust ruling, and the appellate settlement. And so everybody
2:01:30
in the 90s thought of him as this guy who
2:01:33
is this like ruthless capitalist that was trying to destroy
2:01:36
all the competition. So he kind of reinvented himself.
2:01:39
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
2:01:40
Speaker 1: And the way he reinvented himself is, first of all,
2:01:43
he donated an enormous amount of money to the media.
2:01:47
So to NBC, CBS, CNN, all these different– they gave
2:01:50
him hundreds of millions of dollars.
2:01:52
Speaker 2: Just to fluff him basically.
2:01:53
Speaker 1: Just to kind of say, guys, I'm your friend.
2:01:55
Speaker 2: I'm your buddy over here.
2:01:56
Speaker 1: And then he developed the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
2:02:00
and they were really concerned with global health.
2:02:03
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Dude, do you know what they did
2:02:06
fucking in the Cabora-Bassa Delta with their mosquito nets? Why
2:02:10
would you? But do you know what I'm talking about
2:02:12
at all?
2:02:12
Speaker 1: No, what'd they do?
2:02:13
Speaker 2: Dude, I'm going to go on a fucking tirade here.
2:02:15
Speaker 1: Please do.
2:02:16
Speaker 3: Okay.
2:02:17
Speaker 2: So the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation decided that there
2:02:19
was too much malaria in Africa.
2:02:22
Speaker 3: Right.
2:02:22
Speaker 2: Which you and I could probably agree with. Malaria is bad.
2:02:25
So what did they do? They gave all of these
2:02:27
people living in tribal villages. I'm totally part of your thing.
2:02:30
I'm sorry, but I'm going to go on a fucking
2:02:32
rant here. They gave all these people living in the
2:02:34
Kiboribasa Delta, which is the. Breadbasket of the Zambezi Valley,
2:02:39
meaning like where more fish are born. It's a nursery
2:02:42
for fish, right? Not just there, but this is a
2:02:44
good micro example. They gave millions of mosquito nets out
2:02:47
to all these people to avoid malaria. Guess what the
2:02:50
people who are starving to death did with their mosquito nets?
2:02:55
Speaker 1: They fished with them.
2:02:55
Speaker 2: They fished with them. Mosquito net has a hole that
2:02:58
is so small that a mosquito can't get through. So
2:03:00
guess what? These mosquito nets now indiscriminately catch tiny baby
2:03:04
fish in areas like Caborabassa where the fish go to
2:03:09
breed and reproduce and populate. So now all of a
2:03:12
sudden you have thousands and thousands of people that have
2:03:15
been handed nets that have been living one way for
2:03:18
hundreds of thousands of years. They don't give a shit
2:03:19
about malaria. They have their own way of dealing with malaria.
2:03:21
They sit in smoky huts at night. They sleep with
2:03:23
a campfire, everything else. Yes, they still get malaria, some
2:03:26
of them, but they deal with it their own way.
2:03:29
Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation come in, hand out millions
2:03:31
of mosquito nets, absolutely collapse the entire population of fish
2:03:37
that feed millions of people because these people just take
2:03:40
the nets and fish all the baby fish out so
2:03:43
that those fish don't grow up to make substantial protein sources.
2:03:46
So now these wonderful philanthropists that have given out millions
2:03:49
of nets have destroyed an ecosystem, crashed a fish population,
2:03:53
and created widespread hunger for people that otherwise had plenty
2:03:56
of resources. All because... They were trying to help with
2:03:59
their mosquito nets. It's just like it's a fucking disaster, dude.
2:04:04
They've taken such a rich and important part of Africa,
2:04:07
one of the most abundant freshwater fisheries in the world,
2:04:11
and destroyed it because they're helping by handing out mosquito nets. Yeah,
2:04:16
I know. Sorry, I told you I'd go on a rant.
2:04:18
But it's like, it's so bad what's happened over there.
2:04:21
And they're still giving out mosquito nets, by the way.
2:04:23
And you literally watch these guys line up, take a
2:04:25
mosquito net, and it never goes in their house. It
2:04:28
goes straight to catching fish that are this big for
2:04:30
them to eat.
2:04:31
Speaker 1: Oh, God. Sorry.
2:04:33
Speaker 2: No, I mean, it's.
2:04:35
Speaker 1: So bad for them, too. It's like, can't you just
2:04:37
double up the net thing and just get them other nets, too? Like, say, hey, guys.
2:04:42
Speaker 5: That's what happened in 2018. They got the new nets.
2:04:45
Speaker 4: Oh.
2:04:45
Speaker 5: Is that what it says? I'm looking at the thing.
2:04:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:04:47
Speaker 5: Trying to find out other information about it.
2:04:49
Speaker 2: It just totally ruined. They might have already crashed the ecosystem.
2:04:52
It completely crashed it, and it created widespread hunger in
2:04:55
a place that had no hunger. So now you have
2:04:57
people with malaria and hunger.
2:04:59
Speaker 1: Ugh. God.
2:05:00
Speaker 2: And it's, like, done from a place of good intent,
2:05:03
or maybe it isn't, and I think that's where you
2:05:04
were going, but.
2:05:05
Speaker 1: I don't think it is.
2:05:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:05:07
Speaker 1: I think it's a ruse, and I think what a
2:05:10
lot of it is is this thing, like, We are
2:05:13
doing philanthropy. Yeah. But then you go, oh, but you're profiting.
2:05:18
You're making hundreds of millions of dollars from this philanthropy, right?
2:05:21
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:05:21
Speaker 2: But you're buying goodwill.
2:05:22
Speaker 1: And you're also on television promoting vaccines. Like, why are
2:05:25
you– you're a guy who didn't even graduate college.
2:05:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:05:29
Speaker 1: Like, I don't even know if you made it out
2:05:31
of high school. Like he's a weird guy.
2:05:33
Speaker 3: Is he?
2:05:34
Speaker 1: He's obviously very smart. Yeah, of course. But why– you're
2:05:37
not a health expert. And you look like shit. Like
2:05:39
why are you promoting health?
2:05:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:05:41
Speaker 1: Like this is great. Global health.
2:05:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:05:44
Speaker 1: Like he's just a fucking weird guy, man.
2:05:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:05:46
Speaker 1: The weirdest thing– have you ever seen the– he was
2:05:49
obviously friends with Jeffrey Epstein or communicated with him and
2:05:53
had some sort of a relationship.
2:05:54
Speaker 2: Gates did? Yes. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah.
2:05:56
It's popular.
2:05:57
Speaker 4: Gotcha. Well-known.
2:05:57
Speaker 1: Well-known.
2:05:58
Speaker 2: I feel like everybody is connected to Epstein now. Like
2:06:01
I've lost track.
2:06:03
Speaker 1: But the craziest conversation was there was a woman who
2:06:06
was asking him, did he regret his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?
2:06:10
And he's just trying to say that the only reason
2:06:12
why I talked to Jeffrey Epstein, because Jeffrey Epstein was
2:06:14
going to, he was going to donate money to his
2:06:18
philanthropy and all the different things that he's involved in,
2:06:21
but it didn't work out. And I do regret it. And, and,
2:06:25
and she said, did, did you, I forget what her
2:06:27
question was. He, But Gates says, well, he's dead now.
2:06:33
So there's that. There's something about it is you got
2:06:37
to be careful. Like he's it's like a weird, like
2:06:41
veiled threat. It's very odd the way he answers the question. Yeah.
2:06:46
Essentially saying that I'm reading it like like you got whacked.
2:06:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:06:51
Speaker 1: Like that's what I'm reading.
2:06:52
Speaker 2: Interesting.
2:06:53
Speaker 5: Weird.
2:06:54
Speaker 2: Find that that. While you find that, I was talking
2:06:57
to some buddies about this, you know, just like standard
2:07:00
bro chat. If Epstein happened today, right, and you had
2:07:03
no knowledge of the weird stuff going on on the island,
2:07:06
like you would be invited. You know what I mean?
2:07:08
They'd be like, hey, Joe.
2:07:09
Speaker 1: They did invite me.
2:07:10
Speaker 2: Oh, really?
2:07:11
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
2:07:12
Speaker 4: 2017.
2:07:12
Speaker 1: To the island? Not specifically.
2:07:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:07:16
Speaker 1: But to meet Epstein.
2:07:17
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying.
2:07:18
Speaker 1: And I was like, what?
2:07:19
Speaker 2: If that happened today, some guy came to me.
2:07:21
Speaker 1: Oh, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do it.
2:07:25
Speaker 4: At that time that you had a number of meetings
2:07:29
with Jeffrey Epstein, who, when you met him 10 years ago,
2:07:33
he was convicted of soliciting prostitution from minors. What did
2:07:37
you know about him when you were meeting with him,
2:07:40
as you've said yourself, in the hopes of raising money?
2:07:43
Speaker 3: You know, I had dinners with him.
2:07:46
Speaker 1: I regret doing that.
2:07:50
Speaker 3: He had relationships with people he said were would give
2:07:55
to global health, which is an interest I have, not
2:07:59
nearly enough philanthropy goes in that direction. Those meetings were
2:08:05
a mistake. They didn't result in what he purported, and
2:08:09
I cut them off. That goes back a long time
2:08:13
ago now, so there's nothing new on that.
2:08:16
Speaker 4: It was reported that you continued to meet with him
2:08:18
over several years and that, in other words, a number
2:08:23
of meetings. What did you do when you found out
2:08:27
about his background?
2:08:30
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I've said I regretted having those dinners.
2:08:35
And there's nothing, absolutely nothing new on that.
2:08:39
Speaker 4: Is there a lesson for you, for anyone else looking
2:08:43
at this?
2:08:45
Speaker 1: Well, he's dead.
2:08:46
Speaker 3: So, you know, in general, you always have to be careful. And,
2:08:53
you know, I'm very proud of what we've done in philanthropy,
2:08:58
very proud of the work of the foundation.
2:09:00
Speaker 1: Weird. Listen, first of all, you have billions of dollars.
2:09:07
Speaker 3: Right.
2:09:07
Speaker 1: And this guy didn't give you money for years. Right.
2:09:10
Speaker 2: And you still kept meeting with him. He didn't give
2:09:12
you money for years.
2:09:12
Speaker 1: He kept meeting you. What about your money? What is
2:09:15
he going to give you? How much does he have?
2:09:17
Speaker 2: Especially compared to Bill Gates.
2:09:18
Speaker 1: But he also probably doesn't have a fraction of what
2:09:21
you have, right? If like Elon started hitting me up
2:09:25
to donate money to something, I'd be like, hey, bitch,
2:09:27
why don't you?
2:09:28
Speaker 2: Dude, do you know how much money you have?
2:09:29
Speaker 1: You have so much money. Why would you ask?
2:09:31
Speaker 2: I'm the wrong guy.
2:09:32
Speaker 1: If he kept meeting with me for years.
2:09:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:09:34
Speaker 1: For years.
2:09:35
Speaker 2: It's questionable.
2:09:35
Speaker 1: To try to get me to donate. It's kind of similar.
2:09:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:09:38
Speaker 4: Right?
2:09:38
Speaker 1: This is what we're talking about. He's a billionaire.
2:09:41
Speaker 4: Right.
2:09:41
Speaker 1: Like hundreds of billions of dollars.
2:09:43
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:09:43
Speaker 1: None of it makes any sense. No, it's bizarre. The
2:09:45
guy was providing a party for rich people. That's what
2:09:47
he was doing. He was providing a way where these
2:09:50
rich people can fucking let their hair down and. Have
2:09:53
a good old time and do coke or whatever they did.
2:09:55
Speaker 2: That's all it was really, right? It was just a–
2:09:58
but the party had no rules and that's what makes
2:10:00
it a problem.
2:10:01
Speaker 1: I'm just guessing. I'm just guessing. But I had a
2:10:03
guy who tried to get me to meet him in 2017.
2:10:05
Speaker 5: In L.A.
2:10:05
Speaker 1: Or where? I was in L.A. when he reached out
2:10:09
to me. Epstein appeared to have drafted himself– Claiming Gates had... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:10:16
Speaker 5: Like he wrote it to himself.
2:10:17
Speaker 2: Right.
2:10:18
Speaker 1: This is an email that Epstein appears to have drafted
2:10:21
to himself claiming that Gates had contracted an STI from
2:10:24
encounters with Russian girls and hid antibiotics from Melinda. Gates
2:10:29
said the emails were never sent and are false. His
2:10:33
spokesman called them absolutely absurd. So absurd that someone could
2:10:37
get an STD from a Russian girl. Yeah. Gates has
2:10:41
separately admitted to affairs with two Russian women and with
2:10:44
a Microsoft employee, but says none of them were connected
2:10:48
to Epstein or his victims.
2:10:50
Speaker 5: Some people say those emails were like a journal he
2:10:51
was keeping.
2:10:53
Speaker 2: Why would you keep emailing himself?
2:10:56
Speaker 5: He wrote on an iPad all the time, apparently. That's
2:10:58
why the typos were so bad, and he just liked email.
2:11:02
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine. That's your journal. But why would you
2:11:04
do that? Why would you make up a story? About
2:11:07
a guy having STDs. I think more likely because there
2:11:11
was a rumor, and this is an unsubstantiated rumor, I
2:11:14
want to be real clear, that Epstein was trying to
2:11:18
blackmail Gates with some story about a bridge player that
2:11:23
he was having an affair with.
2:11:24
Speaker 2: Oh, interesting.
2:11:25
Speaker 1: Some really hot Russian bridge player.
2:11:27
Speaker 2: I also think they've intentionally flooded the internet with so
2:11:30
much misinformation.
2:11:32
Speaker 1: Perhaps, but my point was if– He could have drafted
2:11:36
that email, which was never sent, and then sent the
2:11:39
draft to Bill Gates or showed it to him and say,
2:11:43
what do you think about this?
2:11:44
Speaker 2: Because I could just– If you don't, yeah. How about
2:11:47
you shut the fuck up? Will you give me some money?
2:11:50
Speaker 1: How about you– It's a bold play. Because there was
2:11:52
a bunch of– well, there was a bunch of people
2:11:54
that gave him a lot of money.
2:11:55
Speaker 2: That gave Epstein a lot of money?
2:11:56
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
2:11:57
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:11:57
Speaker 2: In fact, the guy, the Victoria's Secret guy gave him
2:12:00
a house.
2:12:01
Speaker 1: He gave him a.
2:12:01
Speaker 5: House in Manhattan. He was in control of 100% of
2:12:04
his finances. So it wasn't just he gave it to him.
2:12:06
Speaker 2: Oh, 100%.
2:12:06
Speaker 5: He could have taken it or, you know. And he
2:12:08
goes like, I didn't know what he was doing.
2:12:09
Speaker 2: Wait, so did Epstein fund that house, right? Did he
2:12:12
fund the Victoria's Secret guy to start Victoria's Secret?
2:12:14
Speaker 3: No.
2:12:15
Speaker 1: No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no.
2:12:16
Speaker 5: That's how he got involved after that guy's, this goes
2:12:19
real deep. So Columbus, this guy got, he was going
2:12:22
to go to talk to the IRS about specifically what,
2:12:24
I don't know, 1984. But he was like the tax
2:12:26
guy for that company. He was murdered in a mob
2:12:30
hit style.
2:12:31
Speaker 2: Dude, this is why I like this podcast. I'm just
2:12:32
like an animal nerd. I like talking about snakes and
2:12:35
I'm like, find out about Victoria's Secret, Epstein and shit.
2:12:38
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, it's what the human animal does.
2:12:42
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:12:42
Speaker 1: The human animal when it's in these very controlled spaces
2:12:46
where just, so let's look at it this way. So
2:12:49
imagine you're a guy who's, especially if you're a nerd
2:12:53
and you were never really Good with women when you're
2:12:59
in high school and college. And then all of a
2:13:00
sudden you have literally $ 100 billion.
2:13:02
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:13:03
Speaker 1: And you can just get prostitutes anytime you want. And
2:13:05
I guess if you– get the really high-end ones they
2:13:08
know how to shut the fuck up sure and if
2:13:09
you have this friend of yours who's in the Mossad
2:13:12
and that guy can get the best hookers he's got
2:13:14
a fucking island you go to the island it's the
2:13:16
best yeah we fly we talk about philanthropy we fuck.
2:13:19
Speaker 2: Yeah it makes sense I mean that's what I was
2:13:21
saying before it's like you're just like it's just a
2:13:22
party for a bunch of dorks who can come here with.
2:13:25
Speaker 1: A lot of money but there's also some weird science
2:13:27
connection with him and that's what the work it's really
2:13:29
odd is that there's he got that ranch in New
2:13:34
Mexico and So he could be close to the guys
2:13:37
that were working at Los Alamos who were famously not
2:13:40
making much money. So he's around these guys and he's
2:13:44
talking about going into business with them and giving them
2:13:48
this chance to make an insane amount of money. And
2:13:50
this is what he did with Eric Weinstein. With Eric Weinstein,
2:13:53
he contacted him and they had a meeting and he
2:13:55
was trying to get Eric Weinstein to do something with him.
2:13:58
And if Eric did it, he had the potential to
2:14:00
make an enormous amount of money. And Eric is very wise,
2:14:04
and he just didn't buy him from the start. He's like,
2:14:06
this guy's a construct. He's like, everything about him, he's like,
2:14:08
he doesn't know anything about finance. Like, he was talking
2:14:11
to him. He's like, this guy's a construct. This is
2:14:13
not a real finance guy. He's like, there's something going
2:14:15
on here.
2:14:15
Speaker 5: He's a wheeler and dealer.
2:14:16
Speaker 2: So wait, what was the science they were working on?
2:14:19
Speaker 1: A bunch of different physicists were connected to him. Einstein,
2:14:23
Epstein reportedly hoped to develop super race of humans.
2:14:26
Speaker 2: With his DNA.
2:14:27
Speaker 3: Wow.
2:14:29
Speaker 4: Wow.
2:14:29
Speaker 2: What is that from? That's the New York Times?
2:14:32
Speaker 5: I got a different one of the article.
2:14:34
Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
2:14:36
Speaker 1: That is crazy. But he had a bunch of relationships
2:14:42
with some very impressive scientists and physicists and also oddly
2:14:47
connected to the whole UAP world. The whole Los Alamos
2:14:51
thing is weird because the thing is that he, by
2:14:55
buying that ranch in New Mexico, put him close to
2:14:59
Los Alamos, which was in New Mexico. Yeah. And then
2:15:02
he had access to all these scientists that were famously underpaid.
2:15:07
Speaker 5: Weird.
2:15:07
Speaker 1: So these guys were not making much money. Yeah. And
2:15:09
he was this incredibly wealthy guy through no way that
2:15:12
anybody could ever rationally explain.
2:15:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:15:15
Speaker 1: It was all weird. Yeah. who knows what he was
2:15:18
trying to get them to do.
2:15:19
Speaker 2: He was probably just one of those guys. I mean,
2:15:21
you never ended up meeting him, but he was probably
2:15:22
just incredibly likable as a con man. Do you know
2:15:25
what I mean? You probably sat in a room with
2:15:26
him and you're like, wow, this guy's really great. Like
2:15:28
maybe I should give him some money. Maybe I should like,
2:15:30
what a cool guy. And he's just a dirt bag
2:15:33
under the, you know, under the veil.
2:15:34
Speaker 1: We're just speculating, but maybe, maybe also if you have
2:15:38
a bunch of really hot Russian chicks that are hanging
2:15:40
out with you, that'll do it. You don't need to
2:15:42
be that charming.
2:15:43
Speaker 2: That's so true. It's so true.
2:15:45
Speaker 1: You're a billionaire with a bunch of hot Russian chicks.
2:15:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:15:48
Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of people that are willing to
2:15:50
hang out with billionaires just because I've seen it where
2:15:53
people just get enamored by the fact that someone's insanely
2:15:56
wealthy and they want to go to the party at
2:15:57
their house.
2:15:59
Speaker 2: But all those people do is work like crazy.
2:16:01
Speaker 5: Do you know what I mean?
2:16:01
Speaker 2: They're not fun. I mean, I don't know. I don't
2:16:03
know that many. He was. That's true. That guy partied hard. Yeah,
2:16:07
good point. Good point.
2:16:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, to be a billionaire, I mean, in most cases,
2:16:11
what you have to do is be insanely driven.
2:16:13
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:16:14
Speaker 1: And you have to be that guy that works 18,
2:16:15
20 hours a day. Right.
2:16:17
Speaker 2: And give up all the other things.
2:16:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to give up all your time. Exactly.
2:16:20
And that becomes your whole life.
2:16:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:16:22
Speaker 1: But I think that's also why they wanted a guy
2:16:25
like that that could provide them. This is how Eric
2:16:28
Weinstein described it. He said he provided them with experiences,
2:16:31
I believe.
2:16:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:16:32
Speaker 1: That was his, and I think he's right. I think
2:16:34
that makes sense.
2:16:35
Speaker 2: I mean, my one and only billionaire friend is that
2:16:37
Anand Ambani, that Indian guy I was mentioning. I think
2:16:40
it's so cool he's built this gigantic wildlife rescue.
2:16:42
Speaker 1: That is pretty dope. That's a great thing to do
2:16:45
with money.
2:16:46
Speaker 2: He's just like– he's a nerd like me. And if
2:16:47
he hears this, he's going to be like, thanks a lot.
2:16:49
But like he's just an animal nerd. Do you know
2:16:50
what I mean? He's going to be like– he's just
2:16:51
like– he just loves animals and conservation. And he's like,
2:16:54
I have– generational wealth that might, you know, it came
2:16:58
from his family. His family's like fifth or sixth generation
2:17:00
of having huge industry. And he's like, okay, so with
2:17:03
my excess money, I'm going to rescue animals instead of
2:17:06
do other, you know, space race. That's very cool. It's rad.
2:17:08
Speaker 1: That's very cool.
2:17:09
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, it's amazing.
2:17:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, there's nothing wrong with space race
2:17:12
stuff too. It's all fascinating. No. But it's just, it's...
2:17:17
And I get it from a perspective of people who
2:17:19
think there's not enough money in the world and then
2:17:22
why do these people have so much money and they
2:17:23
should give all their money away. It's like– Okay. But
2:17:27
you could do that all the way down to like $ 100, 000
2:17:30
a year if you really wanted to do it, especially
2:17:32
when you compare yourself to everyone else in the world.
2:17:34
That's right.
2:17:34
Speaker 2: That's right. Just living in this country alone, we're in
2:17:38
the 1%. Yeah.
2:17:39
Speaker 1: Most people, I think 1% of the world, we will
2:17:42
look this up, it's like $ 50, 000, $ 60, 000. If you make
2:17:45
more than that, you're in the 1% of earth.
2:17:47
Speaker 3: Right.
2:17:48
Speaker 2: And that's the majority of people in the United States.
2:17:50
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:17:50
Speaker 1: It's crazy. So like- Yeah, you're barely getting by in
2:17:52
America and you're in the 1% of the world.
2:17:54
Speaker 2: Exactly.
2:17:54
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:17:55
Speaker 1: Which is wild.
2:17:55
Speaker 2: It's wild.
2:17:56
Speaker 1: It's really wild.
2:17:57
Speaker 2: It really is. Yeah.
2:17:58
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:17:58
Speaker 1: We're the weirdest animal. You should study us.
2:18:00
Speaker 2: I should.
2:18:01
Speaker 5: I should.
2:18:02
Speaker 2: Well, I learned a lot today, I'll tell you what.
2:18:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're not fun. Like you study us and
2:18:08
you go, oh, God, what are they fucking doing? Whereas
2:18:12
you study animals, you're like, oh, fucking cool.
2:18:14
Speaker 2: They're way cooler. They're way more interesting. More teeth, more claws,
2:18:18
more slithering.
2:18:18
Speaker 1: Well, it's also just the fact that there's so much
2:18:21
variety and that they are real and that they are.
2:18:24
Then some of them are so strange. How about that
2:18:27
new monkey that they just found in the Congo?
2:18:28
Speaker 2: With the lipstick? Crazy-looking monkey. See his orange mouth?
2:18:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like he just ate one of them
2:18:33
freeze pops.
2:18:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Like your kid after, yeah. Hunter, dude, it's
2:18:37
so cool. And new primate species coming out still?
2:18:40
Speaker 1: I know.
2:18:41
Speaker 2: I love that. I think it's so great.
2:18:42
Speaker 1: Do you believe in the Bondo ape? Do you think
2:18:45
that thing is.
2:18:47
Speaker 2: Yes and no. There's probably likely a group... Of chimpanzees.
2:18:52
Do you know what I mean? That just are more aggressive,
2:18:54
that are a social construct.
2:18:56
Speaker 1: And are larger.
2:18:57
Speaker 2: And are larger. But it doesn't mean that it's like this,
2:19:00
you know, because they have the whole thing about them
2:19:01
being lion killing apes and all this other stuff. There's
2:19:05
probably a family troop, a group. And, you know, they're
2:19:07
in war now. Have you read about this? Yeah. So
2:19:11
I think that the Bondo ape is real in the
2:19:13
sense of there is probably an isolated larger group of
2:19:16
chimps that just act like chimps.
2:19:18
Speaker 1: The thing about this chimp, though, is they said that
2:19:20
their skulls are different.
2:19:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, the cranial ridge.
2:19:23
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:19:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Things with stronger jaw muscles have
2:19:27
a cranial ridge. You know, you see it in hyenas.
2:19:29
You see it in things like that. Gorillas. Yeah, gorillas. Yeah, exactly.
2:19:32
It's just more surface area for the muscle to attach to, basically.
2:19:35
Speaker 1: It's just like that would be so fascinating to find
2:19:38
those things. And that's what, you know, that Carl Armand
2:19:41
guy spent his whole life.
2:19:43
Speaker 2: Hunting, reading rumors.
2:19:45
Speaker 1: But at least he got some photos, unlike that poor
2:19:47
fucker that was looking for the sloth.
2:19:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, still trying, yeah.
2:19:50
Speaker 1: Like he got some camera trap photos of them.
2:19:54
Speaker 2: No, and they were bipedal in the photos, right?
2:19:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes.
2:19:58
Speaker 2: Which chimps are. You know, they'll walk on hind legs
2:20:00
and stuff. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
2:20:02
Speaker 1: It is pretty cool. And then there's a photo of
2:20:03
the one that they killed that was at the airport.
2:20:06
Do you ever see that one?
2:20:07
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
2:20:07
Speaker 1: Oh, it's crazy.
2:20:08
Speaker 2: At the airport?
2:20:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a small airport, and they killed this one
2:20:13
enormous chimpanzee. So there's just two guys that are standing
2:20:17
with it. It's hard to tell how big the guys are,
2:20:19
but if they're normal-sized human beings, that's the biggest fucking
2:20:22
chimpanzee I've ever seen in my life.
2:20:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's huge.
2:20:23
Speaker 1: Look at that thing.
2:20:25
Speaker 2: They're amazing.
2:20:26
Speaker 1: Look at that. I mean, the guy is, you could
2:20:28
tell by perspective that the guy's, He's got his hand
2:20:31
on it, so he's right behind it.
2:20:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a forced perspective.
2:20:34
Speaker 1: And his arm is not extended, so it's not fake.
2:20:37
And that chimpanzee looks way bigger than him.
2:20:40
Speaker 2: Way bigger. Yeah, it's amazing.
2:20:42
Speaker 1: So they think that is one of them.
2:20:43
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, like I said, I think it's real in
2:20:46
the sense, oh yeah, this famous photo.
2:20:48
Speaker 1: See, but that one just to me looks like a chimpanzee.
2:20:51
That just looks like a big chimp. Yeah. Where the
2:20:54
one that's sitting down, that looks way bigger than those guys.
2:20:57
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's crazy.
2:20:57
Speaker 1: The size of its head is fucking enormous.
2:20:59
Speaker 2: Do you know that there's one river where I'm trying
2:21:04
to remember exactly how this works, but basically there's one
2:21:06
area where the rivers collide, where the chimps and the
2:21:10
gorillas go into conflict with each other over this one
2:21:14
river spot. Do you know what I'm talking about? Have
2:21:16
you ever heard about this? Yeah, it's really interesting. So
2:21:18
somewhere in the Congo, there's this particular river, and I
2:21:21
think it's called the Cross River. Can't remember now. And
2:21:24
it's an area that the chimps will come on one
2:21:27
side and the gorillas will come down on the other.
2:21:29
And they will have they'll like throw stuff at each
2:21:31
other across the river. And like it's like a whole thing.
2:21:34
It's been documented. And these guys will there's sort of
2:21:37
these like two clans of great apes that come and
2:21:40
communicate across the river and throw rocks and like show
2:21:43
off to each other. And then they kind of go
2:21:44
back into the jungle. But it's been seen in this
2:21:46
one particular river several times.
2:21:49
Speaker 3: Wow.
2:21:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:21:50
Speaker 2: It's like the real planet of the Apes.
2:21:51
Speaker 1: What are the chimp wars? Are they fighting over food, territory?
2:21:56
Speaker 2: Unless I'm mistaken, it's relatively unknown, but it's sort of
2:21:59
a social construct. So if you think of humans, for example,
2:22:04
once our population gets too large and we have too
2:22:06
many men and not enough women, we fight, right? We've
2:22:08
seen that throughout history, Roman times, Mongolian times, you name it.
2:22:13
So there is one troop of chimps that all live
2:22:16
together in relative harmony and And then two leaders basically
2:22:20
sprung up and there was a lack of enough females.
2:22:24
And so all of a sudden this clan divided into
2:22:27
two clans and now they're at constant war with each other.
2:22:29
Like they live in the same relative territory, but they'll
2:22:32
come into contact with each other and go to war
2:22:35
over who's going to be the leader of the alpha troop,
2:22:38
the mega troop. And it's been going for maybe a
2:22:41
year or two years now.
2:22:42
Speaker 1: Fuck.
2:22:43
Speaker 2: Yeah. But how human is that?
2:22:45
Speaker 1: So human.
2:22:46
Speaker 2: Like, to be like, okay, we're all part of this group. Like,
2:22:48
you and I don't like each other now. Like, this
2:22:50
is my side. That's your side. We're going to fuck
2:22:52
each other up.
2:22:53
Speaker 1: Study highlights friends with benefits relationship between gorillas and chimps. What?
2:22:57
They're fucking each other?
2:22:58
Speaker 5: No, it's younger ones hanging out, it says. It's probably
2:23:01
in the same area they're meeting.
2:23:02
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:23:02
Speaker 5: Pictures of them, like, in the same trees.
2:23:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I think this is that river.
2:23:05
Speaker 5: They want figs out of these trees.
2:23:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, but friends with benefits.
2:23:09
Speaker 5: Well, the benefits are, yeah, I was looking for wording
2:23:12
that got to where you're getting at.
2:23:13
Speaker 1: But you don't really say that with, like, why do
2:23:16
you go to dinner with Bob? Well, we're friends with benefits. Oh,
2:23:19
you're fucking Bob?
2:23:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:23:20
Speaker 1: When did you start fucking Bob, man?
2:23:22
Speaker 2: No, no, we're just, like, figs. Both of us, yeah.
2:23:25
Speaker 5: The chimpanzees, though, they caught them beating their chest, which
2:23:28
is only something gorillas.
2:23:29
Speaker 2: Have ever done.
2:23:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, they're imitating them.
2:23:32
Speaker 2: Mimicking each other, yeah.
2:23:33
Speaker 3: Wow.
2:23:33
Speaker 2: Isn't that cool?
2:23:35
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen that one documentary. I think it's
2:23:39
called Relentless Enemies. Where there's a particular pride of lions
2:23:43
that grew enormous because they're only eating water buffaloes. They
2:23:46
got trapped on an island because the river changed paths.
2:23:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I remember what you're talking about. I don't
2:23:51
know the documentary, but yeah, they're eating Cape buffalo. Yeah. Exclusively. Yeah.
2:23:55
And the lions are just getting bigger and beefier and
2:23:57
they're all fat and like, yeah, it's pretty cool.
2:23:59
Speaker 1: Well, they have to get bigger. The females are doing
2:24:02
all the killing.
2:24:02
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:24:02
Speaker 1: And so they're as big as male lions in other places. Yeah.
2:24:06
And they're jacked.
2:24:07
Speaker 2: And they don't have a choice. Because otherwise they're going
2:24:09
to die while trying to hunt the Cape buffalo.
2:24:11
Speaker 1: Right. But so we're watching natural selection in real time
2:24:15
because they just keep getting bigger and stronger.
2:24:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:24:18
Speaker 1: And, you know, like these fucking buffalo are enormous, man.
2:24:21
They're jumping on these things and hanging on them and
2:24:24
trying to drag them down to the ground.
2:24:25
Speaker 2: The black death. That's what they call the Cape buffalo.
2:24:28
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:24:28
Speaker 1: Those motherfuckers are so scary.
2:24:30
Speaker 2: So mean. So scary.
2:24:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:24:31
Speaker 2: And they'll charge so unprovoked. Like they'll just turn and
2:24:35
come anytime. But it's... It's crazy how you have that
2:24:39
basically insular dwarfism and insular gigantism throughout animals no matter
2:24:43
like animals stuck on an island. They're either going to
2:24:45
get big or they're going to get small.
2:24:47
Speaker 1: Well, lizards usually get big on an island, right?
2:24:49
Speaker 2: Or tortoises, right? Like the Galapagos or the Seychelles. Yeah.
2:24:53
Speaker 1: Why? Why do they get bigger?
2:24:54
Speaker 2: No predators, unlimited resources.
2:24:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
2:24:57
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, you know, you're a little
2:24:59
tortoise that's this big. And every time you get to
2:25:01
this big, something spots you from the air and eats
2:25:03
you or whatever it happens to be. But now you're
2:25:05
stuck on an island with all the grass and fruit
2:25:08
you could ever eat and nobody wants to eat you.
2:25:10
So you just get bigger and bigger to outcompete each other.
2:25:12
Speaker 1: Look at that face. Yeah, look at those guys. Just
2:25:18
imagine that's the only thing you can eat is something
2:25:20
three times bigger than you. And can fucking kill you.
2:25:24
Speaker 2: That kills a lot of lions, by the way.
2:25:25
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
2:25:26
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:25:26
Speaker 1: Well, they kick you in the face when you're trying
2:25:28
to take them out, and then that's it. Your jaw's broken,
2:25:30
and you never eat again.
2:25:32
Speaker 4: Yep.
2:25:32
Speaker 1: And you starve to death slowly.
2:25:34
Speaker 2: I love the little cub there covered in blood. Look
2:25:37
at that.
2:25:37
Speaker 1: It's a really cool documentary.
2:25:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:25:40
Speaker 1: It seems so weird when you're looking at the size
2:25:43
of the females. They just look exaggerated to the point
2:25:46
where they look fake. They look like Hulk lions.
2:25:49
Speaker 2: It's awesome.
2:25:50
Speaker 1: It's very cool.
2:25:51
Speaker 2: Very, very cool.
2:25:52
Speaker 1: Nature is such a wild thing, man. I mean, it's
2:25:54
such an amazing, fascinating, endless resource of just cool shit
2:26:00
to see.
2:26:01
Speaker 2: And our understanding of it changes all the time. Every
2:26:05
animal theory we've ever had evolves and changes as we
2:26:08
learn more, which is what makes it so fun because
2:26:10
it's so dynamic. It's not a static thing.
2:26:12
Speaker 1: Well, it's just crazy that we keep finding new things,
2:26:15
like the new primate.
2:26:16
Speaker 2: All the time.
2:26:16
Speaker 1: Find that little new monkey that they found.
2:26:18
Speaker 2: With the orange lips.
2:26:19
Speaker 1: He's really cool. He's in the Congo. He's really cool. Well,
2:26:22
and the Congo is another place. It's like, what?
2:26:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:26:25
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen that BBC documentary on the Congo from, God,
2:26:29
it was like the early 2000s. But look at him.
2:26:33
What a weird looking guy.
2:26:34
Speaker 2: So cool.
2:26:36
Speaker 1: So strange.
2:26:37
Speaker 2: There's a few lost primates out there too, like species
2:26:40
that we've seen once or twice that have never been
2:26:42
seen since.
2:26:43
Speaker 1: Like what? Yeah.
2:26:45
Speaker 2: Miss Waldron's red colobus is one that comes to mind.
2:26:49
Speaker 1: It's called Miss Waldron's red colobus?
2:26:50
Speaker 2: I think it's called that, or maybe it's just Waldron's
2:26:52
red colobus, but it's a colobus monkey that there's like
2:26:55
three or four museum specimens and no live specimens. Yeah.
2:26:59
Speaker 1: Really?
2:27:00
Speaker 5: Uh-huh.
2:27:00
Speaker 2: There's a few of those, yeah. Whoa. Miss Waldron's, yeah,
2:27:03
red colobus.
2:27:04
Speaker 1: Why is it called Miss Waldron?
2:27:06
Speaker 4: I don't know.
2:27:07
Speaker 1: Who's that lady?
2:27:08
Speaker 2: Good question.
2:27:10
Speaker 1: What do you have to do with this monkey lady?
2:27:12
Speaker 2: They have to West Africa, previously described as subspecies, not
2:27:15
been cited since. Oh, I saw it for a second.
2:27:17
Speaker 1: And what's crazy is a lot of these animals, especially
2:27:21
primates and essentially anything that lives in the Congo is
2:27:25
in a place that's so scary and so dangerous to visit.
2:27:29
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:27:29
Speaker 1: That is not a lot of research being done.
2:27:31
Speaker 2: Well, that's always what I tell people when they're like, oh, well,
2:27:33
you know, find these animals, find that animals.
2:27:35
Speaker 1: Nobody's looking.
2:27:36
Speaker 2: It's too hard. they're the local people know they're there
2:27:39
like these lost species are species that the people that
2:27:41
hunt and eat them know they're there but they have
2:27:43
no communication to the outside or the scientific world and
2:27:47
you know for you or i to go into that
2:27:49
part of the congo is probably a death sentence yeah
2:27:54
yeah But there's a lot of cool stuff out there.
2:27:57
Speaker 1: Are there any other animals that might be real that
2:28:00
people think they've seen?
2:28:02
Speaker 2: As far as like cryptids that could still be real?
2:28:06
Speaker 1: Weird ones. man like the giant sloth or something like that.
2:28:09
Speaker 2: I mean there's that whole like the dinosaur in the
2:28:11
congo thing that people always talk about it's silly it's
2:28:14
not real that one seems silly i mean i i
2:28:16
can't think of any i i think you know like.
2:28:18
Speaker 1: David cho went looking for that one yeah yeah.
2:28:20
Speaker 2: I actually that's one of your pods that i watched
2:28:22
the whole thing he was talking about that david's crazy
2:28:26
yeah i can't think of any but you know it's
2:28:30
it's those rumors like There's a sloth. We've seen it.
2:28:33
There's an Asian unicorn. We've seen it. That if people
2:28:35
don't follow, you never know. It's like you can absolutely
2:28:38
be the tinfoil hat guy like I can be with
2:28:40
the thylacine. But if you give up and don't look,
2:28:43
we never really know.
2:28:45
Speaker 1: And if it's going to be– it will probably be
2:28:48
in a place like the Amazon or like the Congo.
2:28:51
Speaker 2: Certainly.
2:28:51
Speaker 1: Enormous place. Isn't the Congo as wide as the contiguous
2:28:56
North America?
2:28:57
Speaker 2: The country or the river?
2:28:59
Speaker 1: I think the country of the Congo, the Congo, the
2:29:02
jungle of the Congo, I think is almost as big
2:29:06
as America.
2:29:07
Speaker 2: I did not know it was that large.
2:29:08
Speaker 1: Africa is fucking huge.
2:29:10
Speaker 2: It's huge. If you see because United States imposed on Africa,
2:29:13
you're like, oh, my God, the content of Africa is enormous.
2:29:16
Speaker 1: Well, that's what's squirrely about maps, right? Especially like when
2:29:19
you look at the globe, like everything's so distorted.
2:29:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:29:22
Speaker 1: Which I don't understand why they do that.
2:29:24
Speaker 4: No.
2:29:25
Speaker 1: I've never had that explained to me in a way that, like, oh,
2:29:28
I get it.
2:29:29
Speaker 2: Or timelines. Have you ever looked at how, like, timelines
2:29:32
are drawn on the globe? Like, you know, like the
2:29:35
time zones? Oh, right, right, right. So weird. There's all
2:29:38
these squiggly jigsaw puzzles. And you're like, why is that
2:29:40
island in this time zone that's three slots over? Like,
2:29:43
it makes no sense to me.
2:29:44
Speaker 1: Doesn't make any sense.
2:29:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:29:46
Speaker 1: But, like, see if you can find the size of
2:29:49
the Congo. Like if you see the size of the Congo,
2:29:53
I think it's almost as big as the United States.
2:29:56
Speaker 2: That's crazy. I didn't realize that. It's the same. Yeah,
2:29:59
there are these. There's so many of these incredible remote areas.
2:30:02
Speaker 1: I think it's thousands of miles wide. Okay. So if
2:30:07
you took that and you shoved it, why doesn't it?
2:30:11
Put it over.
2:30:12
Speaker 5: Right.
2:30:12
Speaker 1: The bottom one there is a better one. Bottom one.
2:30:15
That one's better.
2:30:16
Speaker 2: So not quite.
2:30:17
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:30:17
Speaker 2: But it's still enormous. Yeah.
2:30:19
Speaker 1: It's like 35%. Yeah.
2:30:22
Speaker 2: And there's more political unrest there now, which means stuff
2:30:25
shuts down.
2:30:25
Speaker 1: I mean, that's crazy. That's an enormous piece. Look how
2:30:29
big that is.
2:30:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:30:30
Speaker 1: You get all of India, all of Eastern Europe, the
2:30:32
United States, China. Fucking crazy. France, Spain. Look at that.
2:30:36
Speaker 2: It's a big place.
2:30:39
Speaker 1: And the cradle of civilization.
2:30:41
Speaker 3: Yep.
2:30:42
Speaker 1: The cradle of humanity. And then also Egypt. That's also
2:30:47
part of Africa.
2:30:47
Speaker 2: You know about the eclipse coming up there?
2:30:49
Speaker 4: What?
2:30:50
Speaker 2: Biggest one in history, 2027.
2:30:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:30:52
Speaker 2: So in 2027, I want to say April, there'll be
2:30:55
a six-minute total blackout in Egypt. It'll be the longest
2:30:59
one in 100-and-something or maybe 80-something years. Over the Red
2:31:03
Sea in Egypt.
2:31:04
Speaker 1: Oh, that's when you want to go see the pyramids.
2:31:05
Speaker 2: Can you imagine?
2:31:06
Speaker 1: That's when the aliens are going to return.
2:31:07
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, dude. Can you imagine being at
2:31:09
the pyramids and seeing a six minute long, six minute,
2:31:12
22 second eclipse? That's what it's going to look like.
2:31:14
And it's in a place that never has fucking clouds.
2:31:17
So you're going to see it. I mean, they do,
2:31:18
but not that time of year. So yeah, total solar
2:31:21
eclipse for six and a half minutes.
2:31:23
Speaker 1: So we had one here.
2:31:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
2:31:25
Speaker 1: Two years ago.
2:31:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:31:26
Speaker 1: Two years ago, Jeremy?
2:31:27
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:31:27
Speaker 1: It was really cool.
2:31:28
Speaker 2: How long did that last? I wasn't in the country.
2:31:30
Not that long.
2:31:31
Speaker 1: But, yeah. A couple of minutes. Yeah, a couple of minutes.
2:31:33
What was really cool about it, though, was that all
2:31:36
the animals got oddly silent before it happened.
2:31:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
2:31:40
Speaker 1: It was really weird.
2:31:41
Speaker 2: Like they know something's coming.
2:31:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we were outside waiting for it. And as
2:31:46
the eclipse starts taking place. Yeah. It was really wild.
2:31:51
Speaker 2: So crazy.
2:31:51
Speaker 1: And then while it's happening, like, whoa. And you imagine, like,
2:31:54
imagine living, like, thousands of years ago before anybody understood
2:31:58
what the fuck was going on. And thinking, like, some wild,
2:32:02
magical moment had happened and we entered into a new
2:32:06
timeline or something. You'd have all crazy theories.
2:32:08
Speaker 2: I'd, like, grab somebody. We've got to sacrifice them right away.
2:32:10
Something's going on here. Get them to the pyramid.
2:32:13
Speaker 1: Cut their heart out.
2:32:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, straight away.
2:32:14
Speaker 1: It's also, it's, like, so weird that the sun and
2:32:18
the moon– are the exact right distance that when they cross,
2:32:23
the moon just completely outlines where the– I mean just
2:32:28
fills in everything.
2:32:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:32:30
Speaker 1: But the light around the outside of the edges. It's bizarre.
2:32:33
Like how is it perfectly sized like that?
2:32:35
Speaker 2: Have you seen– oh, sorry.
2:32:37
Speaker 5: Go ahead.
2:32:37
Speaker 1: No, it's just– it's an incredible coincidence that it's the
2:32:41
right distance and the right size because obviously the moon
2:32:44
is so much smaller than the sun.
2:32:46
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:32:46
Speaker 1: But perfectly– distance the scale so that when the sun
2:32:50
and the moon is there it's like boom it's like
2:32:52
the right size not like half of it yeah you
2:32:55
know it's perfect yeah perfect it just sits.
2:32:57
Speaker 2: Right in there yeah it's like an oreo and the
2:32:59
cream it's amazing.
2:33:01
Speaker 1: The really screwball theories are that the moon is fake
2:33:05
i've never heard that way the panda the panda fake
2:33:08
has nothing on the moon being fake the moon is
2:33:10
fake yeah they think the moon is uh artificial and
2:33:14
And then it was like put here by aliens and
2:33:16
it's hollow.
2:33:17
Speaker 2: You're kidding. Oh, no, no, no. That's a good one.
2:33:18
Speaker 1: And that it was put here in order to sustain
2:33:21
life on Earth to give us a stable orbit.
2:33:24
Speaker 2: I mean, it does do that.
2:33:25
Speaker 1: It does do that. Yeah.
2:33:26
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:33:27
Speaker 1: Because imagine like how fragile life is. Like we're really
2:33:31
concerned about climate change.
2:33:32
Speaker 4: Sure.
2:33:32
Speaker 3: Oh, my God.
2:33:34
Speaker 1: The climate changes. Well, guess what? If the fucking moon
2:33:36
wasn't there, you'd be doomed.
2:33:38
Speaker 2: Oh, it's nothing.
2:33:39
Speaker 1: There's no way. You need a big moon, too.
2:33:42
Speaker 2: It controls all of our oceans.
2:33:44
Speaker 1: It's a quarter of the size of the Earth.
2:33:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:33:47
Speaker 1: It's a weird moon.
2:33:48
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:33:48
Speaker 1: Like, I don't think there's another moon in our entire
2:33:52
solar system that's comparable. Oh, interesting. In terms of the
2:33:55
size and the relationship to the other planet.
2:33:56
Speaker 2: To the planet itself, yeah.
2:33:57
Speaker 1: I think it's way bigger than every other moon on Earth.
2:34:00
Let's find that out.
2:34:01
Speaker 2: Is that what formulates the conspiracy theories?
2:34:03
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:34:04
Speaker 2: Like it was brought in?
2:34:05
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:34:05
Speaker 2: Interesting.
2:34:06
Speaker 1: There's also– we did something, some sort of experiment where
2:34:09
we shot something at the moon and it rang like
2:34:10
a bell for like a long time, which is really weird.
2:34:13
Speaker 2: That's wild.
2:34:14
Speaker 1: It's like it echoed like way longer than we thought,
2:34:16
which of course could just be they didn't know what
2:34:19
it would do because they had never done it before. Right.
2:34:22
And they don't even know– The fifth largest moon in
2:34:26
the solar system with a diameter of the width of
2:34:29
the contiguous United States while it's dwarfed by Jupiter and
2:34:31
Saturn's largest moons. It's uniquely massive compared to its parent planet. Yeah,
2:34:35
that's what it is. Making the Earth-moon system more like
2:34:38
a double planet.
2:34:39
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:34:39
Speaker 1: So in relationship to the planet, like it's– so– Jupiter
2:34:44
and Saturn have huge moons, but Jupiter obviously is fucking
2:34:48
way bigger than us.
2:34:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
2:34:50
Speaker 1: We can look at the size of Jupiter in comparison
2:34:52
to the size of Earth.
2:34:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's the scale of the moon to the Earth. Yeah, interesting.
2:34:59
That is a wild conspiracy theory. Imagine just being the
2:35:01
guy who's like, you know what? Why don't we shoot
2:35:03
at the moon? Let's give that a whirl, see what happens.
2:35:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did something, I think. I don't know what
2:35:08
they shot it with. I think they sent a rocket
2:35:11
to the moon just to measure the sound to see
2:35:14
what would happen.
2:35:16
Speaker 2: And it was odd. They found it was odd the
2:35:19
way it rang.
2:35:19
Speaker 1: It rang like a bell. But, you know, it's like
2:35:22
they've never done that before. And also, who knows what
2:35:26
the fucking center of the moon is made out of.
2:35:28
Who knows where you hit it.
2:35:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
2:35:31
Speaker 1: Maybe it's weird. Maybe they've got some caves in there.
2:35:33
It's hollow. Apollo experiments and the ringing effect. The phrase
2:35:38
moon rang like a bell comes from Apollo 12. In 1969, November,
2:35:42
NASA deliberately crashed the lunar module's ascent stage onto the moon.
2:35:47
Seismometers recorded long-lasting vibrations for nearly an hour. This description
2:35:55
is a metaphor for how dry, cold lunar rock reverberates
2:35:59
without water to dampen the shock waves. Yeah. But. Retards
2:36:04
and dorks say, oh, it's hollow. It's made by aliens.
2:36:08
And there's also people that think that, you know, there's
2:36:10
stuff there. Like there's a monolith there.
2:36:13
Speaker 2: Oh, there's cities on the moon and all that. Yeah, yeah.
2:36:15
Speaker 1: On the other side that we can't see.
2:36:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:36:18
Speaker 1: Man.
2:36:18
Speaker 2: Bases. Reddit's a wild place, huh?
2:36:22
Speaker 1: This is not even Reddit. This is like you got
2:36:24
to go to like weird message boards where crazy people go.
2:36:27
Speaker 2: It's deep crazy.
2:36:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. Hollow ones on wiki. What's that? Hollow moon. There
2:36:32
you go. The hollow moon closely related to spaceship moon. Ah,
2:36:35
that's the one. Our pseudoscientific hypothesis that proposed the Earth's
2:36:39
moon is either wholly hollow or otherwise contains a substantial
2:36:43
interior space. No scientific evidence exists to support the idea.
2:36:47
Let's go to spaceship moon because that seems even more interesting.
2:36:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:36:53
Speaker 1: Spaceship moon. Come on, baby. Yeah. All these pseudo-scientific... The
2:37:03
moon spaceship includes historical... Oh, no, no, no.
2:37:07
Speaker 5: I didn't know what that means.
2:37:09
Speaker 1: Spaceship moon theory. Try that. It's theory. A pseudo-scientific hypothesis
2:37:18
proposing that Earth's moon is an artificial, hollowed-out satellite constructed
2:37:23
by an alien civilization.
2:37:24
Speaker 2: Oh, boy.
2:37:24
Speaker 1: See?
2:37:24
Speaker 2: It's like the Death Star.
2:37:26
Speaker 1: There you go, bro. Well, you need to get into, like,
2:37:29
space is fake. That's even better.
2:37:30
Speaker 2: Space is fake.
2:37:31
Speaker 1: It was popularized in 1970 by two Soviet scientists, Mikhail
2:37:37
Vasin and Alexander... How about that word?
2:37:42
Speaker 4: Yep.
2:37:42
Speaker 2: Shcherbakov.
2:37:43
Speaker 1: Shcherbakov. Shcherbakov. You said it. Who suggested the moon was
2:37:48
reinforced by an armored titanium hull to survive impacts. Oh, man.
2:37:55
Speaker 2: People need more to do.
2:37:56
Speaker 1: No, they don't.
2:37:57
Speaker 2: You like this?
2:37:58
Speaker 1: I love the kookier the better.
2:38:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:38:01
Speaker 1: Like hashtag space is fake is one of my favorite
2:38:03
things to look up. Because there's a whole community of
2:38:05
people out there that think space is fake. But I
2:38:08
also think that a lot of these people, what you're
2:38:10
getting is there's been some people who develop fake theories
2:38:17
in order to see if people bite. And then they
2:38:20
put them out there like on Reddit or somewhere on 4chan.
2:38:23
4chan is a great place for stuff like that because
2:38:24
you've got a lot of schizophrenics that like to visit
2:38:26
those places. And then they'll put it out there and
2:38:29
see if people run with it. And then they'll do
2:38:31
it to see if just for fun.
2:38:32
Speaker 2: And it gives you a community. It's like, oh, yeah,
2:38:34
I have this group of flat earthers that I hang
2:38:37
out with on Saturdays and we talk about how the
2:38:39
earth's not round. You know what I mean? It's like
2:38:42
I made my own lunatic community.
2:38:44
Speaker 1: Bigfoot hunters.
2:38:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. There you go. Unfuckable white guys. Unfuckable white guys
2:38:50
looking for cryptids. Something to do.
2:38:52
Speaker 1: Are there any other cryptids that are even remotely interesting?
2:38:57
Speaker 2: To me, not really. I mean, I always enjoy the
2:39:00
fun of it, like when we chat about it, but
2:39:01
as far as like the reality of it, I don't
2:39:04
think so. You know, I know it's a boring answer,
2:39:06
but I think that.
2:39:07
Speaker 1: Well, you would know. I mean, that's why I'm asking you.
2:39:09
I mean, you're a guy who actually goes to these
2:39:11
places and goes looking for stuff.
2:39:13
Speaker 2: I love when you hear about something like a burrowing
2:39:16
snake and everybody's like, that's not real. It doesn't exist.
2:39:19
And then turns out somebody finds this weird snake and
2:39:22
it's not really a cryptid, but it's something that nobody's
2:39:24
been looking for. Cause why would you, right? Nobody's digging
2:39:27
in the earth in the center of the Congo to
2:39:29
find a mud snake, you know, or whatever it happens
2:39:31
to be. And I think those are the things that they,
2:39:34
they end up being cryptids in small communities. You know,
2:39:37
like you hear from the village about the snake, I'm
2:39:39
making the snake up, but about the snake that lives
2:39:42
under the mud and only bites when people dig their
2:39:44
crops or whatever it happens to be. And it creates
2:39:47
this generational legend that, that becomes a cryptid. But the
2:39:51
truth is there is a snake that lives under the
2:39:53
crops in the mud. It's just nobody ever goes looking
2:39:55
for it because why would you?
2:39:57
Speaker 1: Well, there is a weird arrogance that we have in
2:40:00
2026 because we have uncovered so much in comparison to
2:40:05
people that lived two or 300 years ago. Oh, for sure.
2:40:07
That we have this maybe arrogant assumption that we have
2:40:10
an accurate audit of all the animals on the planet.
2:40:14
Speaker 2: And it's such a human thing to do is to
2:40:18
be like, We've quantified it all. We have the answers.
2:40:21
You know, it's like we put a finite on something.
2:40:24
And then you have all these guys, especially in the
2:40:26
scientific community, which is that's a whole story for itself.
2:40:30
But they're now like, OK, I need funding. So I'm
2:40:32
going to speciate a bunch of stuff. So I'm going
2:40:34
to go look at four things that are exactly the same,
2:40:36
except one lives on one side of the creek and
2:40:38
one lives on the other. And now I'm going to
2:40:40
make it its own species because that'll fund more work
2:40:43
for me. So now you have the speciation race.
2:40:46
Speaker 1: And there's no gatekeeping on that where someone goes, hey.
2:40:50
Speaker 2: I mean, there are certain criteria that you have to meet,
2:40:53
but they're pretty easy to meet.
2:40:54
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
2:40:55
Speaker 2: You have to say it looks different. It has some
2:40:57
kind of genetic anomaly. It has some kind of physical anomaly.
2:41:00
There's a population of it. Okay, now I've named my
2:41:03
own species, and that makes noise, and I can publish
2:41:06
a paper, and now my research is funded. And it's
2:41:09
just like it's not– You know, is it a species?
2:41:12
Do we did we need this one frog to be
2:41:16
split into four different groups because they live on, you know,
2:41:18
four different patches of the mountain? Not really. You know,
2:41:21
and it sort of lessens the conservation for that frog
2:41:24
in general, because now all of a sudden it's like, well,
2:41:27
there's four different kinds of them. So who cares if
2:41:29
one of them gets extinct? You know, I mean, so
2:41:30
it's sort of like it's a weird thing that's going
2:41:33
on in the sciences where there's this race to do
2:41:35
speciation and pull apart everything into more and more and more.
2:41:39
And then it sort of lessens the value of them,
2:41:42
in my opinion.
2:41:43
Speaker 1: That's interesting. So there's this reward thing that happens that
2:41:50
encourages people to do these things.
2:41:51
Speaker 2: Dude, I'm writing a whole book on this right now.
2:41:53
It's coming out next year because it's just the scientific
2:41:55
system in wildlife and conservation is so broken because it's very,
2:41:59
first of all, the first of all. If you're if
2:42:02
you're an animal guy, you're probably not a great people
2:42:04
person to begin with. Right. Myself included. You're not a
2:42:08
bad people person. Thanks. But for the for the most part,
2:42:11
the people that get into the sciences probably are don't
2:42:14
have the best. Yeah, they're awkward. They don't have the
2:42:16
best human social skills.
2:42:18
Speaker 3: Right.
2:42:18
Speaker 2: So then those people become professors and heads of parties
2:42:22
and academics and all these things. And again, I'm generalizing.
2:42:24
There are great people that I work with, too. But
2:42:26
just as just a picture of the system. So now
2:42:28
you have all these socially awkward, somewhat introverted people studying animals.
2:42:32
Now there's this tiny little resource pool of money. And
2:42:36
everybody that's socially awkward, that's already somewhat arrogant because they've
2:42:40
made it to the top of their field or close
2:42:42
to the top of their field, is competing for this
2:42:44
tiny little pool of money. So now they're putting out
2:42:47
anything that's headline worthy. And a headline worthy could be
2:42:50
as simple as speciating a frog on a mountain or
2:42:53
it could be discovering something. But basically you have to
2:42:55
just publish something to show that you are accomplishing something
2:42:59
to then pull from that tiny little pool of money.
2:43:02
So now a system... like say Yumi and Jamie here
2:43:05
should all be working towards saving this guy right here,
2:43:07
this metal, metal chimpanzee. Well, we're not, we're all fighting
2:43:12
because there's this tiny little pool of money that we
2:43:13
all want. And we're all saying that each other are
2:43:16
wrong because we need to prove that we're right. So
2:43:18
that we're funded because you two, cause all three of
2:43:21
us can't be funded to save that species. Does that
2:43:23
make sense? So now we're all fighting each other to
2:43:26
save the thing that we all care about because the resource.
2:43:28
Speaker 1: Pool is so small. What's the solution to that?
2:43:31
Speaker 2: Well, it needs to become more mainstream. And I think
2:43:34
there's a lot of bullshit science, you know, to be
2:43:36
honest with you. Like there's a lot of this speciation
2:43:39
and publishing and all this stuff that's just sort of
2:43:42
making noise that isn't really helping. And I think the
2:43:45
solution is, well, one, once it becomes more mainstream, here's
2:43:50
the short answer. Conservation is incredibly easy to measure. We
2:43:53
try and make it very difficult and complicated. Are there
2:43:56
animals now? After your work, are there more? Have you
2:44:00
fixed the problem? That's all conservation is, right? Are there
2:44:04
more or less than when you started? If when you
2:44:06
started there are less and now there are more, and
2:44:08
this is very black and white and every system is different,
2:44:11
but if you had 1,000 frogs and then you worked
2:44:14
on the project and now you have 2,000 frogs, you're
2:44:16
doing conservation right, as long as the ecosystem supports, as
2:44:19
long as the prey is there, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
2:44:21
That's all conservation is. We try and make it so
2:44:25
complicated and so in-depth and require all these papers and
2:44:29
this publishing and this information that is sort of an
2:44:31
information overload that the common person doesn't care about it.
2:44:36
I mean, when's the last time you read a paper
2:44:37
on frogs? Probably never, right? Me neither, because they're boring,
2:44:42
because I don't want to care about it. But I
2:44:43
would care if you just came out and said, look,
2:44:46
these frogs need a home. We're going to fight chytrid fungus,
2:44:49
which is this big widespread fungus that's killing all amphibians,
2:44:52
by building frog hotels. And if we build, which are
2:44:54
these little brick hotel things that frogs go in to
2:44:56
incubate to kill fungus. And if we build enough frog hotels,
2:44:59
then there's going to be more frogs. That's good conservation.
2:45:02
So instead of fighting over that, make that popular and mainstream.
2:45:06
Don't make it so complicated so that nobody understands. I'm
2:45:08
not saying don't publish papers and things. Those still very
2:45:11
much so have their place and they're important. But focus
2:45:13
on the messaging to the common person so the common
2:45:16
person now cares. Then there becomes more funding and resources.
2:45:20
Then we don't all have to fight over this tiny
2:45:22
little pool of resources to publish things that aren't actually
2:45:24
accomplishing things.
2:45:26
Speaker 1: Well, this is actually the value of getting into a
2:45:28
crocodile cage.
2:45:29
Speaker 2: That's right.
2:45:29
Speaker 1: Because you get people actually interested in animals.
2:45:34
Speaker 2: That's why I do YouTube. That's why I do all
2:45:35
these things is that I hope that it helps people care.
2:45:38
I don't need to get funded by it. Like it's
2:45:40
great when my YouTube does well and I make money.
2:45:42
But like I just want people to care about these
2:45:44
things because if you care about them, then that resource
2:45:46
pool widens.
2:45:47
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:45:48
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:45:48
Speaker 1: Well, it's you got to make things interesting to people. Right.
2:45:53
And this is where like David Attenborough was so amazing.
2:45:55
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
2:45:56
Speaker 1: Right. Because he developed these documentaries. And so and the
2:46:00
voice that he had was explaining these things.
2:46:03
Speaker 2: Mind blowing.
2:46:04
Speaker 1: He was the first guy to document chimpanzees eating monkeys.
2:46:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:46:07
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:46:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:46:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:46:07
Speaker 1: I remember that.
2:46:08
Speaker 2: Incredible.
2:46:09
Speaker 1: Incredible.
2:46:10
Speaker 2: All his stuff. He's the goat. Literally.
2:46:12
Speaker 1: But you kind of. That's another thing about being a
2:46:15
wildlife biologist. You kind of have to get your hands dirty.
2:46:18
Speaker 2: You have to.
2:46:19
Speaker 1: You got to get in there.
2:46:21
Speaker 2: And the other part of the system that's so broken
2:46:23
is a lot of these world-leading experts have never touched,
2:46:26
seen anything with a living one of these animals. I
2:46:30
worked with a person, and I don't want to say
2:46:32
her name because she's a lovely person, who's a world-leading
2:46:35
expert on a certain type of shark. And we're like, great,
2:46:38
you're the world's leading authority. You're perfect to come with
2:46:41
us on this trip to study these sharks. We fly
2:46:44
to the opposite side of the planet. I don't want
2:46:45
to give too many details. It's not fair to her.
2:46:46
She's a very nice person. We fly to the opposite
2:46:48
side of the planet. She's published 50 papers on this
2:46:51
species of shark. And we get there. And I'm like,
2:46:54
all right, day one, let's gear up. Let's hop in
2:46:56
the water and look for this thing. She's like, I
2:46:57
don't know how to swim. Like, what do you mean?
2:47:00
She's like, I've never been in the ocean before. Like,
2:47:02
you're the world's leading authority on this type of shark.
2:47:05
And she's like, yeah, yeah, I don't dive. I don't snorkel.
2:47:07
I don't know how to swim. I'm like, well, how
2:47:09
are you the world's leading authority on the shark? She's like, well,
2:47:11
I've never seen one alive. I've dissected them. I've published
2:47:14
all these papers. I can tell you about the tooth count,
2:47:16
but I've actually never seen one alive. like you're the
2:47:18
world's leading authority and you've never seen one of these
2:47:21
animals alive to study it the guy who fishes and
2:47:25
eats it in the village next door is a more
2:47:27
of an authority than this person do you know what
2:47:28
i mean right but that's the scientific process the world's
2:47:31
leading authority because they've published the most papers on something
2:47:34
that sits in a pickle jar Do you think.
2:47:36
Speaker 1: That that is an absolute requirement, though? Like, do you
2:47:39
have to have... some sort of physical contact with the
2:47:44
world that they live in?
2:47:45
Speaker 2: I think you have to have observational knowledge. You don't
2:47:47
have to have physical contact. Like, you shouldn't have physical
2:47:50
contact with wild chimpanzees. They'll rip your arms off.
2:47:52
Speaker 1: Right, but I mean the world they live in.
2:47:54
Speaker 2: Yes, I do. I think it should be a requirement.
2:47:57
I think if you're going to be considered an authority
2:47:59
on that thing, you have to have observational data as
2:48:02
well as scientific data. You can't just live in a
2:48:05
world where you're like, I've studied them in pickled jars
2:48:07
and I can tell you everything about them.
2:48:09
Speaker 1: Well, to me, that was like one of the most
2:48:10
fascinating aspects of Chimp Nation. You know, that these scientists
2:48:14
had been embedded with these particular chimpanzees for more than
2:48:18
20 years.
2:48:19
Speaker 2: That's science. Yeah. That is science. That means you are
2:48:22
sitting there. And that's why the best scientists are the
2:48:25
guys that hunt and fish and spend their life surrounded
2:48:28
by these animals that will never once be credited as
2:48:30
a scientist. Because all they do is study the behavior
2:48:33
of the animal. And I'm with you. Like, that is
2:48:36
that's the real deal. 20 years watching a troop of chimps,
2:48:39
learning their behavior, understanding their social dynamics. I'm not saying
2:48:43
you shouldn't also cut one open and measure its canines.
2:48:46
You should when you get a dead one. But that
2:48:49
doesn't make you an authority on it. Right. In my opinion.
2:48:52
Speaker 1: Well, that was the thing about that particular documentary and
2:48:55
those particular scientists was that it was so unusual that
2:48:58
they had this long history where these chimpanzees had lived
2:49:01
and died and raised new chimps around these people. And
2:49:04
as long as they follow this protocol, stay within 20 yards,
2:49:09
at least 20 yards away from them. Never have food
2:49:11
around them. Don't look them in the eyes.
2:49:13
Speaker 2: You're good.
2:49:14
Speaker 1: Yep. And you got insane footage because of that.
2:49:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's a mutual respect.
2:49:19
Speaker 3: Right.
2:49:19
Speaker 2: Like they've learned to appreciate each other. And you can't
2:49:22
do that with every animal. Like it doesn't matter how
2:49:24
many years you spend sitting watching a crocodile. It'll still
2:49:27
eat you at the first chance it gets. But you've
2:49:30
earned a mutual respect with a highly intelligent creature. That
2:49:33
to me. As a field biologist is science. That's incredible.
2:49:38
Speaker 1: Well, if not a respect, at the very least, you've
2:49:40
become a part of their world to the point where
2:49:43
they don't think of you as being an anomaly.
2:49:46
Speaker 2: That's right.
2:49:46
Speaker 1: So they act normal. Yep. Where they're not weirded out.
2:49:50
Like if you just show up out of nowhere and
2:49:52
you're wearing a spacesuit, the monkey's going to go, hey.
2:49:55
Speaker 2: Exactly.
2:49:55
Speaker 1: Fuck is this new thing? But if there's always people
2:49:58
with spacesuits around, they never bother them. They go, oh,
2:50:01
it's just the spacesuit guy.
2:50:03
Speaker 2: Normal. Normal.
2:50:03
Speaker 1: I'm just going to go eat my bananas like normal.
2:50:05
Speaker 2: It's the same as seeing an impala and a wildebeest
2:50:08
hang out together at a watering hole. They're used to
2:50:10
each other. They know they're not threats to each other.
2:50:12
But you or I walk up and both of their
2:50:14
ears perk up and they sprint in different directions. You
2:50:17
can have that time put in to make things calm.
2:50:21
It's amazing.
2:50:22
Speaker 1: But, I mean, has there ever been anything other than
2:50:24
Chimp Nation where they did that that effectively?
2:50:27
Speaker 2: I mean, the grizzly man sure tried. Didn't work out
2:50:30
so well. Didn't end well. Or did it? Yeah.
2:50:33
Speaker 1: It probably ended the way he wanted it to, honestly.
2:50:36
Speaker 2: There's no way he could have wanted to go out
2:50:38
any other way.
2:50:39
Speaker 1: I think that was suicide by bear.
2:50:42
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:50:43
Speaker 1: I also think it was Werner Herzog's attempt at comedy.
2:50:46
Speaker 2: You think? Yeah.
2:50:47
Speaker 1: There's something about the way he edited it where I'm like,
2:50:50
this guy's fucking with us. Because there's one time where
2:50:53
he's talking about the sheriff and they ask the sheriff, like,
2:50:55
what do you thought of him? And the sheriff goes, well,
2:50:57
I thought he was retarded. And they smash cut to
2:51:01
something else. I'm like, you're trying to make me laugh,
2:51:03
weren't I?
2:51:04
Speaker 2: It's pretty funny, though.
2:51:05
Speaker 1: I've wanted to try to get him on the podcast.
2:51:08
He'd probably never answer, honestly, because it would probably be
2:51:11
disrespectful to Timothy Treadwell.
2:51:14
Speaker 2: You've got to get him, though.
2:51:15
Speaker 1: I would love to get him on just because he's amazing.
2:51:18
And also his documentary, Happy People, Life in the Taiga,
2:51:21
is one of my favorite documentaries of all time.
2:51:23
Speaker 2: Oh, really? I don't know it. It's good.
2:51:24
Speaker 1: It's all about these people that live in Siberia and
2:51:27
they have like no mental illness. And all they do
2:51:30
is they live a subsistence lifestyle. They're just hunting and
2:51:33
fishing and trapping and they ride around on snowmobiles and
2:51:37
they make these huts and they live up there with
2:51:39
their dogs. And they have these extended periods of time
2:51:42
where they're alone.
2:51:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:51:44
Speaker 1: And all they're doing is like taking their snowmobiles to
2:51:46
different traps and gathering wood for fire and fish to eat.
2:51:51
And they're all happy. And they're drinking and laughing and
2:51:55
they're like– it's weird because he documents it and it's
2:52:00
called Happy People. That's what the documentary is called. And
2:52:04
it's like with his– the way he describes these people
2:52:09
living in Siberia.
2:52:12
Speaker 2: Nice Siberia.
2:52:13
Speaker 1: It's fucking amazing. Oh, that's cool. It's really amazing. It's
2:52:15
an amazing documentary. I think he's incredible.
2:52:18
Speaker 2: I have said forever, you don't– Look, mental illness is
2:52:23
a real thing. I'm not going to pretend it's not.
2:52:24
But if you spend a lot of time outside and
2:52:26
in nature, and especially by yourself, the noise goes away.
2:52:31
I don't care who you are. I don't care what
2:52:33
your history is, drug history, anything. You're much more present
2:52:38
when you're alone in nature. And mental illness, I have
2:52:42
no experience in this. This is just opinion. But mental
2:52:44
illness comes from when you're wrapped up in your own being, right?
2:52:48
When you're thinking about all the problems and This, that,
2:52:50
and the other thing. But when you're alone in nature,
2:52:52
you have to think about your surroundings and what you're doing.
2:52:55
And you don't have time to sit and manifest on
2:52:58
these things that create depression and anxiety and all of
2:53:01
those types of things.
2:53:02
Speaker 1: There's also no comparison. You're not comparing yourself to anyone
2:53:06
else because you're living in a community that are a
2:53:08
subsistence lifestyle people. All these people are doing the same
2:53:11
thing you're doing. What are you going to do? Are
2:53:13
you going to have the biggest fish? Nobody gives a fuck.
2:53:15
Speaker 2: Nobody cares.
2:53:15
Speaker 1: It's all hunting, fishing, living off the land. That's right.
2:53:18
They all do it. And they're all, like, sharing and
2:53:21
drinking together and having fun. It's really wild when you
2:53:24
watch it. You go, well, it got boiled down to, like,
2:53:27
the most simplistic community-driven ways that people exist like this. Like,
2:53:33
seems to be the best way for people to live.
2:53:35
Speaker 2: But like you said earlier, you have to have both sides, right,
2:53:38
of the coin. It's like the red and blue in
2:53:40
Texas because you have to have innovators and overthinkers and
2:53:43
workers or it wouldn't be a society.
2:53:45
Speaker 1: Or, by the way, they wouldn't exist. Because they use snowmobiles,
2:53:48
and not one of those motherfuckers is going to invent
2:53:50
a snowmobile.
2:53:51
Speaker 2: Exactly. So you've got to have the red and the blue.
2:53:53
You've got to have both sides.
2:53:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:53:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:53:55
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
2:53:56
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
2:53:57
Speaker 1: Well, hey, brother, it's always good to talk to you.
2:53:59
Speaker 2: It's a pleasure, man. This was really fun.
2:54:00
Speaker 1: Really fun. Is this you in the crocodile thing?
2:54:02
Speaker 3: Oh, here it is.
2:54:02
Speaker 1: Oh, my God, dude. You didn't tell me to put
2:54:05
meat all around the outside of it.
2:54:06
Speaker 2: I told you I was an idiot. Look at this.
2:54:09
We made that cage, by the way, and I am
2:54:11
no engineer.
2:54:12
Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Look at this. That cage looks so flimsy.
2:54:16
That thing looks so flimsy, and you're just hanging by
2:54:20
a thread.
2:54:21
Speaker 2: Literally, like this cable that we sourced from a village
2:54:24
and hoped it would hold up. I mean, we tested
2:54:26
it as far as put some rocks in it and
2:54:28
tested it in an empty cage.
2:54:29
Speaker 1: Dude, this is a terrible idea.
2:54:31
Speaker 2: It was dumb. It was dumb.
2:54:32
Speaker 1: Look at these things doing death rolls.
2:54:34
Speaker 2: But people are going to watch this, Joe, and they're
2:54:35
going to learn about crocodiles.
2:54:36
Speaker 5: It's a great thing you filmed it.
2:54:38
Speaker 2: Right? God, man.
2:54:40
Speaker 1: That's insane.
2:54:41
Speaker 2: That was fun.
2:54:42
Speaker 1: That cage looks way too flimsy. Don't do that again.
2:54:45
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it again, I promise.
2:54:47
Speaker 1: Tell people how they can see that, where they can
2:54:49
find all your stuff.
2:54:50
Speaker 2: Dude, it's Shark Week. We got an awesome show coming
2:54:52
out this week. Alien Sharks Untamed America. Looking at some
2:54:56
incredible sharks. Celebrating America's birthday. Our craziest, weirdest sharks. How
2:55:00
long is.
2:55:02
Speaker 1: Shark Week has been going on since the 80s.
2:55:05
Speaker 2: 39 years old. Same age as me.
2:55:06
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:55:08
Speaker 2: It's been around my whole life.
2:55:09
Speaker 1: That is so crazy.
2:55:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's an institution.
2:55:13
Speaker 1: Wow.
2:55:13
Speaker 2: Plus, we got the YouTube channel. That's where I'm doing
2:55:15
most of my stuff now. I hope people check that out.
2:55:17
I know you watch some videos.
2:55:18
Speaker 1: Yes, I do.
2:55:19
Speaker 2: I've heard you comment. I appreciate that.
2:55:20
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate you doing that stuff, man.
2:55:23
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, dude. Always a pleasure. Always great
2:55:25
to see you.
2:55:25
Speaker 1: Bye, everybody. See ya.