Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 134. Freedom In The Church - The Aftermath of COVID

Transcript

134. Freedom In The Church - The Aftermath of COVID · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:04
Welcome to the For Freedom podcast.
0:10
I found my freedom of you. I found a joy I can't lose.
0:19
And thank God it's true. You wrapped your arms around me
0:23
and heaven broke through From the moment she found me.
0:28
I found my freedom in you. This podcast exists to bring the
0:35
freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
0:38
everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James
0:42
Seyfried and Brett Marvin. Welcome back to the For Freedom
0:49
podcast. Another week, another time to be
0:51
able to sit down behind the mic, another time to be able to open
0:54
up and share with Lord has laid on our heart.
0:58
I wanted to start out by thanking all of our listeners
1:01
and supporting our show. I was checking some statistics
1:04
today as I was uploading some episodes and I saw Brett.
1:08
We're almost at 82,000 downloads for the episodes we've got out.
1:14
It's been great. It's been great to be a part of
1:17
the network of the RFP network and the The Brotherhood and
1:21
Sisterhood of the podcasts. And if you don't know about
1:25
that, go check them out. If you go to our website for
1:28
freedompodcast.com, we've got a link to each of those websites
1:32
or or podcasts on there as well. The Recovering Fundamentals
1:36
Podcast. The Growing Grace Podcast.
1:39
The Beer and Bible Podcast the And I Missed the Men of Valor
1:44
Podcast Brett. Am I missing any off the top of
1:47
my head there? I think that's that's about all
1:50
of them, I think. Yeah, I know there's some on
1:52
there that haven't released any in a while, but they're there.
1:56
Go check them out and enjoy their content.
1:59
I know they're growing. Grace I I get encouraged every
2:01
time I listen to those ladies talk and what they've got
2:05
Kristen and Shannon over there is they proclaim truth to women
2:09
and to men as well. But their specific platform is
2:12
to women and doing a great job over there with what they're
2:15
doing. And so go check them out.
2:17
Listen to them as well. And it's been great to be going
2:22
through this series of in the church last week.
2:25
We got to talk about preaching and what that means and and how
2:29
it can help. Or two weeks ago, I'm sorry.
2:31
And last week we shared Brother Brett's testimony or not
2:36
testimony service of translations.
2:40
I'm getting my letters mixed up, translations and being able to
2:44
talk through that. And so it was a blessing.
2:46
I hope you enjoyed that. I know I did.
2:48
And him and Mike Winger did a great job presenting that truth
2:52
to us. And man, we just enjoyed that.
2:55
We got a great talk today, but Brett, Mother's Day is was just
3:00
now happened this past Sunday. Is your mother still alive,
3:04
Brett? My mother's.
3:06
They made it. They survived.
3:08
And I'll tell you, I don't, you know, rarely do I ever preach a
3:13
Mother's Day message. You know, it's it's if I'm going
3:17
through a book or if I'm in the middle of a series, I usually
3:21
don't stop for Mother's Day. I used to do that.
3:24
I used to preach to the mothers every year, preach to the
3:28
Fathers every year. And then one year I switched it
3:31
up. I was like, on Mother's Day I
3:34
reamed out the fathers. And on Father's Day I've reamed
3:37
out the mothers. I've done that before.
3:40
But here lately, I've just been trucking right along.
3:43
And I'll say something at the beginning of the service, and
3:46
I'll recognize the moms and the dads, and I'll read some
3:49
scripture and have a few statements and pray, and so
3:53
we'll acknowledge him in the service.
3:55
But you know, when it comes to the sermon, I'm just going to do
3:58
whatever, whatever sermon series that we're in, which currently
4:02
right now we're going through Jeremiah.
4:04
But we did have a great day, great Mother's Day.
4:08
We had a good crowd. We had a lot of moms in the
4:10
service. So we had a lot of visitors of
4:12
people who were coming out of town to to visit mom.
4:17
And so, you know, we had a pretty good crowd on Sunday.
4:21
In addition to that, we recognize some of our graduates
4:24
that had graduated from college and that we had about 5
4:28
graduates in the service, myself included.
4:31
And so we we recognized the graduate Sunday and man, we just
4:35
had a great Sunday. We had service an hour early for
4:39
Mother's Day, which is usually what we do when we have Easter
4:42
or Mother's Day or Father's Day, things like that.
4:45
We always have an hour early service and without fail we
4:49
always have some people come in late.
4:50
That's usually how it goes, but that's OK That happens
4:55
sometimes. But as far as this man, I have
4:58
really thoroughly enjoyed this, this, this series that we've
5:02
been in in on the podcast, in the church.
5:06
Talking about the church is something that I absolutely
5:08
love. Got a good lot, a lot of good
5:11
responses from the episode last week.
5:14
Thank you to everybody for your comments and encouragement, and
5:18
we do hope that it helps. We were talking about the
5:21
content of the thing and James was like, well, let's just,
5:25
let's just post the sermon on there.
5:26
I was like, well, let's do that instead of rehashing it.
5:29
So I hope you got something out of it.
5:32
You can go check that out. And of course, you know, like I
5:35
said, I want to give credit where credit is due.
5:38
You know, 90% of that came from Mike Winger.
5:41
So I definitely don't want to, you know, pretend like I'm the
5:44
one that thought thought it up. He did a lot of good research
5:47
and it was really good stuff and and that series that he preached
5:51
was what really brought me out of the King James.
5:55
Only mine thought before I stumbled on to the RFP Mike was
6:00
already bringing me out of that. So that series, that that 33
6:06
message series that I preached, is something that he preached,
6:09
and it meant a lot to me in my Christian walk.
6:13
It grew me a lot, and I was thankful to get to share it with
6:17
my people, get to share it on the podcast and I'll share that
6:20
information anywhere that I can. But you had a good Mother's Day
6:25
this past Sunday. Yeah, we had a great Mother's
6:28
Day again. We had visitors as well.
6:31
This is my first Sunday, a senior pastor, first time here
6:34
at the church. And again, I'm with you.
6:37
I don't always want to preach a Mother's Day specific message or
6:41
Father's Day Memorial Day. That's, that's not what I'm
6:44
about. And I told our church that I
6:45
said I don't, I won't typically do this.
6:48
But it just so happened that we were preaching through the final
6:53
sayings of Jesus, the seven final cries on the cross and we
6:57
pulled out the woman, this is your son, son this is your
7:01
mother. And so we we switched that up a
7:05
little bit and pulled that out. And so talk through suffering
7:08
and loss and hurt and and Jesus taking time in his I mean the
7:13
final sayings, final words are lasting words and one of those
7:17
final words was to his mom. And so we felt like that was
7:21
important in in our preaching to do that.
7:23
And so it was a great time. My mom is still alive.
7:27
I'm blessed to have that. My, my wife's mom is still alive
7:29
as well. And they live in North Carolina
7:32
now. Both of them, my my
7:34
mother-in-law do as well. And so we got to go see both of
7:37
them on Mother's Day and got to hang out with them a little bit,
7:41
which is something that my wife hasn't been able to do for the
7:44
last 13 years to see her mom on Mother's Day because she's been
7:48
in a different state. And so with her moving back that
7:50
was a blessing to her and us been able to hang out with mom
7:54
as well was great. So yeah we had a great time
7:57
great weekend exciting time just to be around family and great
8:01
turn out service man. We we were packed full.
8:05
It was I would almost say it was probably the highest attended
8:08
Sunday since I've been here. I don't have the official number
8:11
anything yet, but man it was it was very full for us and so that
8:16
was was a great time, great turn out.
8:18
So yeah, and you talked about how you know when Jesus is
8:23
talking to John and his mom and how that means we're supposed to
8:26
pray to Mary. Yes, because her son listens to
8:29
her. That's right.
8:30
That's exactly right. Yeah.
8:32
And we're supposed to always call them women, woman.
8:35
He didn't say mom. He said, woman, this is your
8:37
son. That's right.
8:38
That's right. That's right.
8:40
So, well, great. Well, Brett, we've got a couple
8:43
things coming up. We've got our man Indianapolis
8:48
man, It's going to be here in like less than a month.
8:51
Like really I was double checking some things and
8:54
realizing man we are man just a couple weeks away.
8:57
My kids last day of school is next week and so they get out a
9:01
little earlier and and then like 2 weeks later we're going to be
9:04
in Indianapolis. So like three or four weeks away
9:07
we're there and man we're already looking at couple things
9:10
to do while we're there trying to figure out just you know
9:14
we'll get there on that Saturday, be there Sunday
9:16
morning for a service and then the convention starts or the
9:19
conference starts Sunday night and then the convention will
9:22
start that Tuesday. And so we're, man, we're, I'm
9:25
excited, I'm excited about being there with you, excited about
9:29
hanging out with some family and some friends that are going to
9:31
be up there to to be around us. And so hopefully you'll be in
9:35
the, if you're in the area let us know.
9:37
We'd love to get together, get lunch, get dinner sometime and
9:41
just hang out and just enjoy our time together.
9:46
It's so cool that JC is coming to Indianapolis just to see us
9:52
like he's making a special trip up there.
9:54
Absolutely. Just to hang out with us just to
9:57
come see the Full Freedom podcast, and I appreciate that,
10:01
JC. I think it shows a lot on your
10:04
part. And we're going to return the
10:06
favor come November when we come to your church to see you at the
10:11
For the Sake of the Gospel Conference as the first weekend
10:14
in November and at Hope Church Catoosa and Fort Oglethorpe,
10:19
Georgia, which is just outside of Chattanooga.
10:22
We want to encourage you to come to this conference.
10:26
This is a time where you know, we're recovering
10:28
fundamentalists, ex fundies is we have our own community and we
10:33
get together and you know, we're not, you know, bash anybody.
10:36
We're just talk about the gospel and that's what it's all about.
10:40
It's a gospel centered. It's not a session where we get
10:44
together and gripe and moan and complain about our past and
10:49
rehash old stuff and and that gets old real quick.
10:53
We're we're coming together to put the focus on what the focus
10:58
should have always been about and what the focus needs to be
11:02
about today. And that is the gospel of Jesus
11:05
Christ. It's a great time to refresh,
11:08
recharge, replug in, get refocused and re centered.
11:13
And you are not going to be disappointed pointed that you
11:16
made the time to come to the for the sake of the gospel
11:20
conference. So don't forget about that.
11:22
We want you to come, we want to meet you there.
11:25
We want to see you. And if you make plans to do
11:28
that, we'd be grateful for that. And then I think our last thing,
11:33
what we got there, James. Brett, that could have been the
11:36
greatest segue in all podcast in history.
11:39
You like that? Indianapolis to the fourth thing
11:41
of the gospel tying JC in there. You know rumor has it that JC is
11:47
going to take us out to dinner Sunday night and pay for it.
11:51
So I'm really excited about that and him being able to do that.
11:54
We'll actually see if he listens to the episodes from.
11:57
The Grapevine to your ears. That's right.
12:00
He's going to take care of it. And so, yeah, Israel's coming up
12:04
in March of next year. We're less than a year away.
12:08
We're ten months away now and excited about being back in the
12:11
Holy Lands, and hopefully you'll make plans to join us and be
12:15
with the For Freedom Podcast. In the Holy Land's experience,
12:20
just the the thrill of knowing that Jesus walked there, the
12:25
thrill of knowing the the different Bible characters, the
12:30
different things that Scripture talks about is right there, and
12:34
we'll be there to experience it. And it'll definitely be on a
12:38
shadow of a doubt. Change your life.
12:41
It'll change the way you read your Bible.
12:42
It'll change the way you interact with Scripture.
12:46
And so hopefully you'll make plans to join us and be there
12:49
with us next year in the first week of March there in Israel.
12:55
And so Brett, we are go ahead. Well, I was just going to say
12:59
that one of the things that I think we should mention is, you
13:04
know, I don't know if it's podcast related, but it is me
13:06
and you related is that it's getting more serious that me and
13:10
you are about to go on a mission trip together to Nicaragua.
13:16
And that is something that some of my people looking forward to
13:21
and I know some of your people are looking forward to.
13:23
We're getting our passports ready to go to Nicaragua.
13:27
And James, do you mind giving us a little bit of detail about
13:30
that? Absolutely, Yeah.
13:31
We're going to be down in Nicaragua in September.
13:34
And I was connected with this organization a couple of years
13:38
ago before COVID, and we were trying to go down there with my
13:43
former church and just didn't work out after COVID.
13:46
There were some things in Nicaragua after COVID with
13:49
politics that just didn't work out.
13:51
And so when we began talking about mission trip and where to
13:54
go, I reached out to the United Christian Missions and they're
13:59
sort of changing their philosophy of ministry.
14:01
And it really appealed to me so much more because we're going to
14:06
go down. They've got 9 church plants and
14:08
they're planting one more new church right now.
14:10
So they'll have 10. And the goal of this whole
14:13
organization is they took over new leadership and they have
14:18
really try to empower the pastors and plant these churches
14:24
more pastor church centered. And So what the goal is, is for
14:28
us to go down and connect with one of these pastors and
14:31
eventually create a support system to where a church here in
14:36
the States will partner with that church in Nicaragua for two
14:40
years, partner with the pastor financially through prayer
14:43
service, through mission trips and for the next two years go
14:47
down and really just be able to invest and pour into them.
14:51
And so we've got five of us going for six total, me plus
14:54
five more from our church and really excited about being able
14:58
to go down and be a part of this organization down in Nicaragua.
15:04
The It's called United Christian Missions.
15:07
And you know, when I was talking, you took me up with the
15:10
missionary, Brother Lee Howe. And it was really cool having
15:14
him just having a phone conversation with him, getting
15:18
his heart for ministry, getting his heart for what mission
15:22
should be. And I just, I'm just totally
15:26
agree with his philosophy that so many times we want to go out,
15:30
we want to pass out a bunch of tracks when have these meetings
15:34
and you know, lead people to the Lord and then they've got no
15:37
place to go. So the mission really needs to
15:40
be focused on on church building, building up existing
15:46
churches, planning new churches, really focusing on discipleship
15:51
and that is what's going to make a difference.
15:53
And I'm just excited to be part of this and I'm looking forward
15:57
to it as well and. If it doesn't change anything
16:00
else, you're going to have three redheaded gingers overtaking
16:04
Nicaragua and taking it by storm.
16:07
And it's never going to be the same when we leave.
16:10
I mean, I don't know if there's been that much ginger hood in
16:13
one area, but I'm telling you, it's going to revival.
16:17
Fires will happen and it's going to be great.
16:20
But we are excited about that. So Brett, let's go ahead and
16:23
throw into our episode today talking and still in the church.
16:27
And then we've enjoyed our series so far.
16:30
And so I hope you have enjoyed it as well.
16:32
Continue to give us comments, but let us know what your
16:36
thoughts are on that. But Brett, talk about what we're
16:38
going to talk about today in our episode.
16:42
I'll tell you, COVID had a big impact on the church, had a
16:48
humongous, lasting impact on the church, and things happened with
16:53
COVID that we just never thought would ever happen.
16:58
And what we want to do today is we want to discuss the effect of
17:04
COVID-19 on the church. Like what was, you know, church
17:10
like pre COVID? What was it like during COVID?
17:14
What are the lasting effects after COVID?
17:17
Are these changes good? Are these changes bad?
17:21
Are they a mixture of both? And this is something that we're
17:24
going to talk about today. And so, you know, I I can
17:28
remember that that COVID was so weird.
17:31
I mean, it was, it was unlike anything that I had ever
17:35
experienced before. Like I had never had anything
17:40
shut us down in that way. Just to give you a little
17:43
background, I grew up under pastor who would have church in
17:49
a tornado warning. He was like, if it's tornadoes
17:53
coming, church is safer than your home.
17:56
So you come to church, church walked, tornado warnings,
18:00
tornado watches didn't mean a thing to him.
18:03
So you know, I have trouble even today a little bit because I was
18:07
raised that way of cancelling church for any given reason.
18:14
And so to shut down the church was something that was so weird
18:19
and so foreign to us. And do you have, did you have
18:23
any experience? Like that.
18:25
Yeah, Brett, So we at my former at my my home church, we weren't
18:31
that dogmatic, but at gospel light in Hot Springs where my
18:35
wife grew up at, they she said she was there for some 4th grade
18:40
till she graduated college. So it's like 18 years total, I
18:42
think, she said. I don't remember a time we cut
18:46
shut down church. I don't remember a time we
18:48
didn't have Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night.
18:50
It was always there. We didn't cancel for church.
18:53
We didn't cancel for Mother's Day.
18:54
We didn't cancel for Easter. We didn't cancel for Christmas.
18:57
Like we were always there. It didn't matter what the
19:00
holiday or what the weather was saying outside.
19:04
We Fast forward to Idaho. They course never cancel for
19:07
anything because people are used to driving in snow.
19:10
We get to our former church where we were at for six years
19:14
and it's like, hey, it may snow on Sunday and they're
19:19
forecasting this on Wednesday. And so by Thursday we cancel
19:21
church and we're like, whoa, wait, what?
19:24
Dude, it's it's a possibility. Like it's not even a a for sure
19:28
thing and we're already canceling church.
19:31
And so it it was sort of the running joke of well, it's going
19:34
to it's going to rain today. So no church with me and my
19:38
wife, of course. And and we we just the other day
19:43
so this was Wednesday night we were last Wednesday we're in
19:47
church had our small groups and we're eating dinner before at at
19:52
the church we have we have do a little meal right now testing
19:56
this out and I said hey Allie look this is a church right
19:59
across from our house and it said due to the potential hail
20:03
storm we're going to camp to church.
20:06
And it's a Southern Baptist church in Alexander County.
20:08
I'm not going to say the name. And she was like, are you
20:12
serious And said, yeah, literally someone commented
20:15
below like 5 minutes later they just reported that the storm was
20:18
heading north. We could probably still have
20:20
church. Nope, we're still having not
20:21
having church. And so I got here and and we're
20:25
joking about a little bit. We're laughing because it's
20:28
like, OK, if people can't use discretion, like some people can
20:32
get there safe and it's fine. And I understand some grandma's
20:36
going to come to church and you don't want to be responsible.
20:38
But at some point we've got to let people make their own
20:41
decisions and not just cancel for anything.
20:44
So there's certain things I say yes, cancel for others.
20:48
I'm like, if people feel safe, come, if not, don't.
20:51
Like, that's just where I'm at. We haven't had that experience
20:54
here yet. We haven't had snow in in three
20:57
years in North Carolina where I'm at.
20:59
So I'm, I'm snow deprived and we so I haven't, I've not been at
21:04
this church during that experience so I don't know how
21:08
we'll respond to that but I'm sure if it's if it's snowing
21:11
we'll we'll probably cancel. As a pastor, I know that when it
21:16
comes time, you know, Mississippi, we've got, we're
21:19
in, this is tornado country, and that we get tornado warnings and
21:23
watches all the time. And so when there's a potential
21:27
tornado watch coming, we usually cancel the service, especially
21:31
if the small line is going to come through about the time
21:34
we're going to be at church. But there's no worse feeling
21:39
than pulling the trigger and cancelling church.
21:42
And then you nobody showed. Nobody goes to church.
21:46
And then the storm goes around you and it's like sunshiny and
21:51
the birds are chirping, but it's too late, It's done.
21:55
There's no church and so it it's always you always hate that
21:59
feeling but then you you always fall back to better safe than
22:03
sorry. I would hate to pull people out
22:05
get them here and then have a squaw line come through and then
22:09
people have to drive to or from church in that storm.
22:14
And so that's that was the mentality that we were in at the
22:18
time. Like we didn't shut down for
22:20
anything. And I remember when COVID
22:24
started, we finally, we made the decision that that okay 14
22:28
bread, 14 days to stop the spread.
22:31
And so we're this is just going to be for two weeks.
22:35
And then they added another two weeks and another two weeks and
22:39
another two weeks. It was like playing a bad game
22:41
of Uno. It's just they kept adding two
22:44
weeks to yen. I remember that I lived in
22:47
Louisiana and I worked in Mississippi at the time.
22:50
And so my boss had to actually write me a paper, an excuse so
22:54
that I could cross the state line to go to work every day.
22:58
Because as an oil changer, I guess I was an essential
23:01
employee and so I had to go to work and just that that's very
23:06
interesting that we had to do that now.
23:09
Right when my dad called him, my dad called it the Gestapo
23:13
papers, he said. I got my he.
23:15
He worked for Freightliner, so he was an essential worker, he
23:18
said. I got my, I got my Gestapo
23:20
papers, I can travel to work. And he said, he said if you
23:24
don't, he said just throw a crime kid in the back seat and
23:28
say I'm out of diapers and I got to get to the store to get
23:31
diapers. He said if anybody pulls you
23:32
over, it'll be all right because we had just had a we had just
23:35
had a baby. So I said that's good, it's
23:37
good. So I'm at, I'm at, I'm at work.
23:42
You know, for the first week I think I I preached online, I
23:47
preached a message online Facebook.
23:50
Now the church that we ran, they did not have online.
23:53
We had a Facebook page, but we did not live stream service, any
23:57
services. So the first live stream
23:59
services that we had was that first week when I preached
24:03
online, OK, I think I preached in my office with a camera set,
24:08
with my camera set up. Well, then I get to work that
24:11
week and then I get pneumonia. OK, This is height of COVID.
24:17
This is immediately when everything is, is is going on
24:22
with COVID. Things are shutting down masks.
24:25
I get pneumonia. Now we assume it was COVID
24:29
pneumonia, because I've never had pneumonia in my life, but we
24:33
don't know that for sure because at the time, they weren't
24:36
testing anybody that didn't have a fever, and I never had a
24:39
fever, so they wouldn't test me. Now they'll test you, you know,
24:43
if you stubbed your toe, they'll test you for COVID.
24:46
But back then, if you didn't have a fever, they wouldn't test
24:49
you. So I never, I never knew if it
24:51
was COVID related or not. I tend to think it was.
24:55
So I leave work, I go home. I've got pneumonia, and that in
25:00
and of itself was horrible. And so I'm at home sequestered
25:06
with pneumonia. And so for the next three or
25:10
four weeks, I would post sermons that I had preached in the past
25:16
that my people had never heard. So I had a couple sermons from
25:20
my previous church on my computer that I would I would
25:24
load for the people and and and let me say at this point once
25:28
again before COVID, we did not have online services at all, I
25:34
was pastoring an unaffiliated Southern Methodist Church.
25:38
They didn't belong to the convention, but they because
25:40
they had just pulled out when I got there.
25:43
But for all intents and purposes it still was a Southern
25:46
Methodist Church. But as far as Southern Methodist
25:49
churches go, it was a very it was a very conservative Southern
25:53
Baptist church. Like, let me tell you how
25:55
conservative this church was like one time I suggested that
26:00
we use some Google free money to get some free advertisement on
26:05
Google and I got shut down because Google was the devil and
26:09
Google's the government so very old fashioned.
26:12
So they didn't live stream their services.
26:14
But COVID pushed us into that. COVID forced our hand into
26:20
online services. And I remember that I posted
26:24
sermons for about a month. And then I, you know, there was
26:28
a couple of times where I preached behind the pulpit in
26:31
the auditorium and we had a phone set up on a ladder and I
26:36
preached, I preached a couple sermons in the auditorium and
26:40
then, so that was about six weeks.
26:42
And then we had our first parking lot, Sir, first and only
26:47
parking lot service where I preached at the front of the
26:50
church and everybody parked in the parking lot.
26:53
And by this time it had been 6 to 8 weeks.
26:55
We were fed up. And so we were, we said look,
26:59
we're coming to church no matter what.
27:01
We roped off every every other Pew.
27:03
We put out masks, we put out hand sanitizer, we put all that
27:07
out, all that stuff and and we went back to in person services.
27:14
But a couple things that continued were the online
27:17
services for Facebook which we started doing regularly and then
27:22
we switched from passing the plates to a offering box in the
27:25
foyer and and when that was over we we kept the offering box.
27:30
So that was one of the changes that we made.
27:33
What What was your experience during COVID James?
27:37
All right. So COVID came.
27:38
Of course I if you know me, I I listen to political podcasts all
27:42
the time. I'm, I try to stay update with
27:44
the news. I know some pastors don't.
27:46
They think it affects their preaching.
27:49
I would rather know more than no less, especially in different
27:53
situations. And I don't think it affects my
27:56
preaching at all. I just think I can
27:58
compartmentalize that stuff. And so I knew of this virus that
28:03
was coming out in in January, February.
28:05
It was starting to make some way some landfall.
28:08
But again, it wasn't a small, I heard some small isolation
28:11
things, people were closing things down and I was actually
28:15
preaching the Sunday before COVID hit on on March 15th.
28:19
I think it was at a friend's church across town and I got up
28:24
and I preached and and as I do it every church I go to when I
28:28
preach for someone and I'll say all right well I hope that you
28:31
know the church survives after I leave.
28:33
I hope I don't screw everything up or something along those
28:36
lines. And then literally I preached
28:39
and then two days later every church shut down.
28:42
Every church went viral or virtual and I text his name's
28:46
Paul. I said Paul, sorry I messed your
28:47
church up like I preached and. All your.
28:50
Fault. Yeah, like it's all my fault.
28:53
And so we talked through that a little bit.
28:56
Pre COVID, me and me and my pastor were we were dabbling
29:00
with this thought of live streaming.
29:02
We had cameras set up. We had a decent Internet service
29:05
but and so we had begin talking, do we live stream, do we not.
29:09
And So what we did was we literally just went to a couple
29:12
of pastors in the area and said hey, you live stream your bigger
29:16
church Pros and cons give it to us.
29:20
And I every pastor we talked to, they said don't do it, don't
29:25
live stream. They said we it is an excuse for
29:29
people to stay home and not be a part of the church.
29:33
One church specifically, largest church in town.
29:37
And he gave some horror stories of members literally sitting in
29:41
bed with their pajamas on, eating breakfast, taking a
29:45
picture of the TV, praying for you, pastor, enjoying the
29:48
message today. And he just said it was just, it
29:51
was disgusting because we had already gotten there and we
29:54
can't go back. Once you've turned that page,
29:55
you can't go back, he said, He said, So I would suggest not
29:59
doing it as much as you possibly can.
30:02
And so that was sort of our, our, our process through it.
30:07
We decided that at that time, you know the financial money to
30:12
put into to get the new cameras and some other things for our
30:16
soundboard, it was just going to be cost wise, not effective to
30:20
do it based on. We didn't think it would be a
30:22
reasonable thing. So we didn't do it.
30:24
We didn't, we didn't go that route with COVID before COVID,
30:29
pre, COVID. I'm sure most of you who are
30:31
listening was the three to thrive.
30:33
I always say it's even 4 to thrive.
30:35
Sunday school, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night,
30:38
you had to be there for all four things.
30:40
Amen. You were in person man.
30:43
You didn't do anything virtually you did everything online.
30:45
You did everything in person, face to face.
30:48
And so pre COVID, this is where it was at when when COVID hit,
30:53
they hit that Sunday We went, we went virtual and starting that
30:58
Wednesday I did a lesson every single Wednesday night for our
31:03
teenagers online. We had already had a a church
31:06
Facebook, youth group, group page and so I started putting
31:12
out videos. I started doing like it was
31:15
March Madness, so I did March Madness brackets of fast food
31:19
and ice cream and I I just anything to get people involved
31:23
and I had a great time with it, man.
31:24
We were people seeing parents and kids filling out brackets
31:28
and just doing great things together.
31:31
But just not being together physically was was horrible.
31:36
And so we began to, again, we're recording videos with phones and
31:40
cameras and trying to piece together graphics and and just,
31:45
I mean literally limp through this.
31:47
And so we did that for the first couple of weeks and then we got
31:53
close to Easter. And so we we wanted to we wanted
31:57
to be in person. And so we began to meet outside
32:01
in the parking lot and we set up some speakers.
32:04
We had a trailer set up, We set up a stage and we started doing
32:08
outdoor drive in services for about four or five weeks, did
32:14
graduation service outside. And then the first Sunday of
32:20
June, which was the last Sunday for my pastor, because he
32:25
resigned during COVID, he resigned during those three
32:27
months, was our first indoor service and we were back inside
32:32
and that was an emotional time for us.
32:36
But coming through COVID, there were some things that that died
32:41
that needed to die. There were some things that were
32:43
brought to life, that need to be brought to life.
32:45
And understanding that was was huge for us because when
32:50
everything stops, it's harder to get the wheels turning back on
32:54
something than it is to just start something from fresh.
32:58
So. So think of an old car that's
33:01
that drove for hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles
33:04
grand. Pappy drove it and it was a
33:06
great vehicle and he decided to stop driving it, parked it in
33:10
the back of the house and it sat there for 40 years and it's
33:14
rusted and it's tired and it's old and everything's dry rotted.
33:18
Man, to get that thing up and going is, is a whole lot of hard
33:23
work. You got to, you got to take
33:25
things apart. You got to replace things.
33:27
You got to, you got to rebuild that thing from scratch and it
33:30
can be tough versus going to the Ford dealership and saying hey,
33:35
I need a new truck and they give you a brands make a new truck
33:38
with everything ready to go, all the bells and whistles.
33:41
You put the key and you start it up and you go, that's a brand
33:45
new ministry. It's just like a brand new
33:47
truck. You don't have to.
33:49
There's not. There's work behind it.
33:51
There's there's volunteers that are involved in it.
33:54
There's there's people involved to get it going.
33:56
But it's a it's a lot easier deal.
33:59
But when something has died and you're trying to bring it back
34:03
to life, it's a lot harder work than something that's brand new
34:06
starting up. And so in this situation, I knew
34:10
of a pastor who literally has a true story, who after COVID, he
34:16
was a missions pastor for the church.
34:18
He did all the outreach, all the evangelism and they began to
34:23
say, OK, hey, we're we're starting back good News Clubs,
34:25
we're starting back in school stuff, we're starting back these
34:28
different programs. And he literally just said
34:31
here's my two week notice, it's too hard for me to get these
34:34
volunteers because no one wants to volunteer again.
34:37
I'm reviving dead ministries that people were doing out of
34:40
obligation before and now they're not obligated to do it
34:44
anymore because I had a reason to stop and they don't want to
34:47
do it anymore. And so it's hard for me to do
34:49
this. So I'm just done now.
34:51
Lack on his part, He shouldn't have gave up in Ministry, but he
34:55
did because restarting some things that are dead is really,
34:58
really hard in Ministry. And that's what COVID did.
35:01
It killed some things that need to be killed that some people
35:05
wanted to continue to do. And and you can look all across
35:08
the landscape of things that were being done for hundreds of
35:12
years because of tradition's sake that people were just
35:15
simply doing because they had to do it because that's how church
35:18
was supposed to be done. And some of those things were
35:21
maybe even bus ministries that died because of it.
35:24
Some of it were Sunday schools and small groups that people
35:27
were doing that just began to stop because it wasn't the
35:33
method of today One of the things and and cut me off at any
35:38
point where I'm just sort of rambling during during COVID
35:40
here. One of the things that I saw was
35:43
that the IFB, the the, the organizations that we came out
35:48
of, the Independent Baptist churches, they didn't fall in
35:52
line with. They didn't like this going
35:55
online and some of the they had to.
35:58
Everyone was forced to. But what I began to notice is
36:02
people didn't feel like they had to quote, UN quote, cheat on
36:07
their church. OK.
36:08
If you don't go to a Sunday morning service, Brett.
36:11
You, you, you, you're in a smaller church like I am.
36:15
If someone's not there on Sunday, you're going to notice
36:17
they're not there. And you may send them a text on
36:20
Monday. Hey, Everything all right with
36:21
the family? I noticed y'all weren't there
36:23
most time. Hey.
36:24
Yeah. I went to my mom's church
36:25
because of Mother's Day or, you know, aunt so and so was having
36:29
her family reunion. And typically it's a pretty,
36:31
pretty good reason why they weren't there, but you're going
36:35
to notice they're not there. And So what happened was is in
36:39
these smaller churches, people would know that they would be
36:43
noticed. They weren't there.
36:44
And so they didn't go and go attend other churches.
36:48
Well, when COVID hit and everyone was online, there
36:51
wasn't this guilt of the pastor of, well, if I don't watch him,
36:57
he's not going to really know that I didn't watch him.
36:59
Or I can watch enough of his sermon to know what he's going
37:02
to talk about. But then they have the
37:04
opportunity to switch to another church and begin to listen to,
37:08
well, pastor talked about this crazy liberal church down the
37:11
road the other week. I'm going to go listen to their
37:13
service today. And for the first time, they had
37:16
this opportunity to do this and not feel guilty about it.
37:20
And they began to listen to these other people.
37:22
And they begin to realize, wow, this is they're preaching the
37:26
gospel. I was told they're heretics and
37:29
they're out there preaching some crazy thing.
37:31
They're preaching the Gospel better than my pastor is.
37:34
Their worship is better than my church is.
37:37
And all of a sudden COVID began to propel people into this
37:41
mindset that they could explore Christianity more than just
37:46
their four squares in a box of an echo chamber.
37:49
And this is what propelled a lot of things that we'll talk about
37:53
the at the end of the episode. But but Brett, what?
37:55
What are your thoughts during COVID died?
37:58
What What are your thoughts? Well, I think you're right on
38:02
things. Dying, old traditions.
38:04
And if anything we read from the Bible, we see that Jesus cares
38:09
very little for man made tradition, OK.
38:13
He cares very, very little for for that.
38:16
So there are some things that needed to die, that needed to
38:20
stay dead. There was some resistance to
38:23
this new digital age. Listen to me, the internet's not
38:28
going anywhere. Mobile phones aren't going
38:31
anywhere. Online presence isn't going
38:33
anywhere. Things were already trending
38:36
this way before COVID, and there were people resisting.
38:41
Well, what COVID did is it forced their hand, it forced
38:46
their bluff and it forced them to go into this digital realm,
38:52
which is is the way you're going towards now.
38:54
I agree. Like this couple.
38:55
That's sitting at home eating pop Tarts in the bed when
38:59
they're physically able to go to church and they live across the
39:03
street from the church. Now that's wrong.
39:04
That's an abuse of it. But it it it is, it's not going
39:10
anywhere. It's part of our religion, our
39:13
worship experience now. And you know, instead of trying
39:17
to ignore it, instead of trying to get rid of it, to go back the
39:20
way things were, we need to embrace it.
39:23
We need to marry these two things together in person and
39:28
digital. It doesn't have to be 1 or the
39:31
other. But you know, there were some,
39:33
some, some some things that died that needed to stay dead.
39:38
Now, unfortunately, I will say this, there were a lot of people
39:43
in our church and in most churches that use COVID as an
39:47
excuse to never come back to church, even after things opened
39:52
up. It's almost like they were
39:53
looking for a way out of church and COVID gave them an excuse
40:00
and they left church and they they, they never came back.
40:03
And that that especially is heartbreaking.
40:06
It's it's heartbreaking for our church because man, when I took
40:09
that church, when I took that church.
40:13
We had 1215 people in attendance that first year and the church
40:20
that had a bad split years before I'm there the first year
40:25
the church that 15 people splits again and but that was when we
40:30
really got motion. That was when we really started
40:32
to grow and before COVID, we were running 70 strong and for
40:38
church that had suffered a bad split, so bad the police have
40:42
been called that suffered a bad reputation in the community.
40:46
That was in 70 was really good for that church.
40:49
And I was only there a couple of years, you know, after COVID and
40:54
we really, we never really got back to that.
40:57
We never really had a chance to build that back up.
40:59
Now, at my current church, I wasn't here during COVID.
41:03
But from what I heard before COVID, change was something that
41:09
did not come easy here. Change was something that a lot
41:13
of people were like, look, this is tradition.
41:15
This is the way we've always done things.
41:18
We're not going to change it. We've always had a Sunday night
41:21
service. We've always done this.
41:22
We've always done this. Well, COVID comes along and now
41:27
the church had to change. And so now change comes easier
41:33
and now the church is open to change and and and it's still
41:37
open to change today. That was a positive change that
41:41
happened. Was there more open to change?
41:44
We, we just recently dropped the Sunday night service.
41:48
We're doing small groups, We're flexible in other areas.
41:52
So you know I would say that there are more positive outcomes
41:56
than negative incomes. One of the things that we
41:59
dropped and and we talked about it earlier a little bit me and
42:03
you've talked about it is the offering plates, passing of the
42:07
offering plates. This is something that many
42:11
churches did drop because of COVID germs.
42:14
Some churches have went back to it.
42:17
Some churches have stayed with the offering box and we both the
42:22
churches that I've been affiliated with since COVID have
42:25
both opted to stay with the offering box and it works.
42:30
But there is some churches that have noticed that not passing
42:33
the plates, the offerings have went down.
42:36
And so I don't think it's it's something where it's you have to
42:40
do it certain ways. It's not a it's it's, you know,
42:44
you have to look at this at a church by church basis.
42:47
It just depends on where you are.
42:49
It's not a blanket thing. Something may be bad for other
42:52
churches and good for other churches, but I think what COVID
42:55
did is it forced us to be flexible.
43:00
It pushed us out of our comfort zone because, you know, that's
43:04
what God does. God pushes us out-of-the-box.
43:08
He pushes us out of our comfort zone.
43:10
And I think for years that, you know, we were all church the way
43:15
it used to be church in the 1950s.
43:18
And God has come along and say, well, let me take care of that
43:22
golden calf that you're holding up, that golden calf of 1950s
43:27
church and let me go ahead and push that out of the way.
43:30
I and God's I honestly believe this that God said I'm going to
43:34
force you to do this. This is this is digital media.
43:39
Listen years before people went to church where they where they
43:46
grew up in their community because they couldn't travel
43:48
far. Well then the automobile came
43:50
along and now people can travel far.
43:53
They can you know travel at you know some people travel an hour
43:56
to go to church on Sunday morning.
43:58
But now the advent of social media and online worship, you
44:03
can virtually attend any church in the world and I I think it
44:07
shouldn't replace in person worship at all.
44:11
But if we don't incorporate it, we're going to be obsolete,
44:14
obscure, and left behind. Absolutely.
44:19
I I think incorporation as well and and I pulled up the stat
44:22
that I found. I was trying to pull it up
44:24
beforehand. I searched just now if I found
44:26
it, but it was a statistic that Lifeway did and it said that 41%
44:32
of Protestant churches prior to the COVID-19 outbreak, so prior
44:38
to the fall of 2019, 41% were not putting any of their worship
44:43
services online. 41% said by the end of March of 2020 of that
44:50
same group of of churches that they researched 9 and out of 10.
44:54
So 90% of those 41% of churches were putting some type of video
45:00
content online throughout the pandemic and it said that 84% of
45:07
those churches, so 6% less of those churches are still
45:13
streaming something online today, whether it's at the
45:16
moment of recording live or whether it's pre done and then
45:21
posted later. And so 84% are still doing some
45:25
type of service online since COVID and it said this, that one
45:30
in every four people in our churches today, 26 percent is
45:36
because they watched a service online 1st and then they came to
45:40
church. So 25 percent, 26% of the
45:46
visitors that we get in our churches are because they've
45:50
seen something online and now they're coming to experience it
45:53
in person. They may have seen something
45:56
online that drove them away from your church.
45:59
And so it's very important to know the content we're putting
46:02
out because it is affecting people in the way they are
46:05
coming. And it said that in September,
46:07
21 unchurched individuals were exposed to worship services for
46:11
the first time through a video post online.
46:14
And now they are showing up in person.
46:18
And so there's other statistics in this article as as early as
46:21
2022, three and four pastors, 75% of the pastor said their
46:25
church has reached new people online in the last six months.
46:30
And so the we, I, I used all those numbers to say this.
46:34
It's a tool, It's something that we can use to reach new people,
46:39
to reach people with the gospel so their lives can be changed.
46:44
Some things in the church post COVID, Brett, we'll go into this
46:47
now post COVID that never started again or died because of
46:53
COVID. For me, I've got a couple of
46:55
things and they may be different for you.
46:57
I I think each church context is different.
47:00
When if you would have asked me eight years ago, my churches and
47:07
eight years as as far, I mean, I would even go as far as to say
47:10
if you'd have asked me five years ago, four years ago, right
47:14
before COVID, what are some things that you would always
47:17
have in the church? I would have told you Sunday
47:20
night service will always be a part of the Church of where I'm
47:22
going. And for now, all of a sudden we
47:27
were doing a Sunday morning only experience and I was doing some
47:29
Wednesday night stuff and I was like, man, I got to have this
47:32
Sunday night. And so all of a sudden we're
47:35
trying to fill some voids. But for three or four months we
47:39
didn't do anything. And then all of a sudden we
47:42
begin meeting back in person and the conversation began to happen
47:47
of are we going to start with Sunday night back And I looked
47:51
at our leadership and I said guys I said I don't have a
47:53
desire to start with Sunday night back.
47:55
I said Sunday night has been some of the most fruitful times
47:58
with me and my family hanging outside doing things together
48:03
just experience a Sabbath together and and getting away
48:07
cuz our ministry life is busy. I said I don't have a desire to
48:10
start Sunday night back. We were having families over in
48:13
our house. We were being in families homes,
48:16
I mean, for 52 weeks when we didn't have Sunday night
48:19
service, I was either in someone's home on a Sunday night
48:22
or they were in my home on a Sunday night almost every single
48:26
Sunday night. Because I knew that we need to
48:29
be around people. And I knew that that was a more
48:32
meaningful connection than just meeting and preaching for 30-40
48:35
minutes and send them home. And so we were being creative in
48:39
this way. And I told him, I said I don't
48:40
have a desire to do Sunday night again.
48:43
And I told the church I'm at now.
48:44
I don't have a desire to do Sunday night again.
48:46
Now eventually some of the leadership pushed and said, well
48:48
we're going to start it back. We got a new pastor and they
48:51
really pushed him and and and they started back the 1st and
48:55
3rd Sunday night. But they're not doing it
48:56
regularly. They're, I mean not they're
48:58
doing it, they're not doing it every Sunday night, but they're
48:59
doing it twice a month. And you know, it's it's whatever
49:04
it is. But for me, that was one of the
49:06
things that died that I didn't know needed to die for the sake
49:09
of my family. And my family grew so much
49:12
closer during that time because of these relationships that we
49:17
began to build. And then I've got one more that
49:21
I'm going to share, but I'm going to let you talk as well
49:22
Brett, some post COVID things. Well you know I I covered a a
49:27
couple things already post COVID with the you know the offering
49:32
and and things, stuff like that. I do want to say this about
49:35
Sunday nights. We didn't have a Sunday nights
49:38
at our church. I've talked about this before as
49:41
part of our testimony and that was just it was a rest.
49:45
It was a Sabbath. To have that just kind of relief
49:49
after coming out of the IFB and having that time with my family,
49:53
it really made a difference. So I can definitely sympathize
49:57
with you because that time with my family was some of the best
50:01
time that we ever had. I think that a wins like a full
50:05
One of the things that we changed here at this church was
50:09
like a full Wednesday preaching service.
50:13
We we don't have that anymore. We we've changed that.
50:17
It's no longer a full, you know, full blown preaching service on
50:21
Wednesday. Now we have a meal where we feed
50:24
the community. We open it up for everybody to
50:29
come and eat, even if you don't come to our church.
50:32
Then we come over here and we do.
50:37
We do a devotion, we do a prayer meeting if we have choir
50:43
practice on Wednesday nights because we dropped our son down
50:46
here at at Rocky Point. We did recently drop our Sunday
50:49
night service and of course that didn't happen.
50:54
You know when they came out of COVID, they said OK, do we want
50:57
to start Sunday night service back?
50:59
They said yes. So they started Sunday night
51:02
services back. And when I took this church, it
51:05
was full on preaching Sunday morning, Sunday night, and
51:08
Wednesday night, full on three preaching services.
51:12
But because the attitude that had come out of COVID was OK,
51:18
we're OK with change. When I suggested OK, on Sunday
51:23
nights, instead of doing a full preaching service, let's do
51:27
small groups instead, they said yes.
51:30
When I suggested on Wednesday nights, OK, instead of having a
51:34
full preaching service, let's have a community meal.
51:37
And you know, I'll have a little study, little devotion. 1520
51:41
minutes after the meal, they said yes.
51:44
So they they're saying yeses to all these changes.
51:47
And that's an attitude that did come out of COVID.
51:51
And so I think those changes are positive.
51:55
Absolutely. I agree with you.
51:58
One of the things, and I sort of hinted to it a minute ago with
52:01
COVID was that these churches, people began to use this as an
52:07
opportunity to look at other churches online that they would
52:10
have not normally looked at online.
52:13
And I thought I I really think John started this podcast, the
52:18
For Freedom Podcast out of a response of COVID as well.
52:21
We had extra time on our hands. We had time where we weren't
52:25
ministering as much because we couldn't go in hospitals we
52:28
couldn't go in. And so we're trying to as
52:31
pastors, we're we're content driven, we're we're preaching
52:34
people that we're that's just who we are.
52:36
That's how God made us. And so we're trying to figure
52:39
out these areas to get these avenues out.
52:43
And so it began for John as a as a book deal.
52:45
He wanted to write a book on the history of the IFB and go
52:48
through it. And so instead he said, well
52:51
man, it's going to take too long.
52:52
Let me just get this content out.
52:54
So he started the podcast to help him start it along.
52:57
That exact same time the RFP podcast came out, the Preacher
53:03
Boys podcast came out. There were some others along
53:06
that same genre because it was a mode of getting content about
53:12
what was going on in people's lives.
53:14
And I truly believe, Brett, that the the exposure to the sex
53:21
abuse, the exposure to the legalism and the spiritual abuse
53:25
that those three podcasts that I specifically mentioned came out
53:29
of COVID was a direct response of COVID And then people seen
53:33
for the first time, I mean on social media turn to bad
53:37
preacher clips and IFP sermon clips.
53:41
That was a response to everyone's online.
53:44
Let's put content out there to expose what's going on in these
53:48
churches and pastors were getting mad.
53:50
There were there were death threats to the IFP sermon clips.
53:55
I I've, I've met the guy, I know him, he he has shared with me
53:59
the death threats that he had been getting.
54:00
He showed me screenshots because of these pastors that were mad
54:05
at him for taking his own word, their own words, and putting
54:08
their own content out there. And what we begin to see is, I
54:13
don't know if you experienced this, where you're at, but I
54:15
began to see COVID change the even content that these IFP
54:20
churches were putting out because all of a sudden they
54:23
began to put private YouTube pages up where you had to be a
54:27
member and have a password to get to it.
54:30
Well, any church just trying to hide that stuff.
54:32
I mean, they've got to be hiding something.
54:33
They've got to be hiding what they're trying to teach and they
54:37
don't. So all of a sudden there was
54:38
even this this mechanism that was beginning to show up in the
54:43
churches itself of saying yeah, we we're trying to hide things
54:46
but they didn't say it that way. And so I think COVID exposed a
54:49
lot of those things. But I I think for me personally,
54:52
man, it exposed some imbalances in my ministry of my life
54:56
because I was so ministry focused.
55:00
Yeah, I had my Fridays off, but my Sundays were so busy in my
55:04
and I'm not saying they shouldn't be, but in the same
55:07
time man, we've got to have time for our family on those days
55:10
off. And community, I preached this
55:14
past Sunday. God created community for a
55:16
reason, because he knew we needed to be around people.
55:21
He knew that we needed to express ourself around people.
55:24
And that's why he created that community for us, which is the
55:27
church, which is why we're talking about in the church and
55:29
how COVID changed it and how we can take some of these things
55:33
that we've learned and and go forward.
55:36
Brett, anything there? And then we'll sort of Brett
55:38
wrote an article, an article, a research paper for a college
55:43
class just last year. About this time, he's going to
55:45
share a thought on that. Anything before that thought.
55:48
Brett. I did want to say just on top of
55:52
of of, you know, listening to online stuff and podcasts during
55:57
COVID. All right, So here's the thing.
56:00
People in our circle in the recovering fundamentalist X
56:03
funding community, they know me as the TikTok guy.
56:07
OK. I am the TikTok guy and all that
56:11
came. Yeah, you didn't know.
56:14
I haven't. You had a hidden identity.
56:17
So, well, that all came out of COVID too, because here's what
56:21
was going on. Facebook was so depressing.
56:25
I mean, they're posting the death numbers, the death totals,
56:29
every single day. Those numbers go up and up and
56:33
up and up. And it was just so depressing
56:35
that I took a hiatus from Facebook and I started looking
56:40
for something else. I'm like, I got off Facebook for
56:42
like 2 months, which was a peaceful two months, and I
56:47
started looking for something else and I found TikTok.
56:50
And I got into TikTok during COVID.
56:53
And you know, I know a lot of people found the Recovering
56:56
Fundamentals podcast during that time.
56:58
I knew about it right before COVID hit, but I really took the
57:04
time to listen a lot during COVID.
57:06
And, you know, and I think God has a reason for everything that
57:09
he does. And I think that, you know,
57:12
many, many churches are holding on to tradition, totally going
57:16
against online stuff or forced to go online.
57:20
And we'll talk about that in just a second.
57:21
But, you know, I got into this thing because of COVID.
57:27
And you know, that's that's part of my story as well.
57:32
Love it, Brett, why don't you share the the thought that you
57:36
gave there at the end of your paper on the method of how we,
57:39
how we receive things and and how COVID has affected that?
57:44
So you know, religion should never shy away from an in person
57:50
event. But what COVID taught us is that
57:54
you know religious organizations.
57:55
They should invest in social media, online worship, digital
57:59
solutions, their churches today that they they criticize so
58:06
much, you know, they're so, you know, traditional, they
58:11
criticize so much Facebook and live streaming and whatnot and
58:17
things such as that. But here's the thing.
58:20
There's always been a need to overcome geographical distance
58:28
and physical absence when it comes to, you know, preaching
58:34
the word of God. And when you however you fix
58:39
that geographical distance, however you fix that physical
58:43
absence, you're going to use the technology that is available to
58:48
you at that time. I want people to think about the
58:52
New Testament. What is the New Testament?
58:55
The New Testament is sermons written in letter form.
59:00
That's all it is. There's sermons written as
59:03
letters. Paul is in one location he wants
59:06
to write a letter to. He wants to preach a sermon to
59:10
another church and another location.
59:12
So he writes a letter and he sends that letter to this church
59:19
far away. He sends this sermon through the
59:22
medium of a letter to another church in in a distance, a far
59:28
distance away. In fact, for thousands of years,
59:31
the need for religious ideas to traverse space and time has
59:36
always played a role in religion, and there have been
59:40
many mediums that have been used to communicate sermons,
59:46
communicate spiritual truths, and he looks us today.
59:50
It's digital platforms, it's social media.
59:53
But 2000 years ago, it was letters being sent to the
59:57
church. Before that, Moses wrote down
1:00:00
the Jewish law on Tabus of Stone.
1:00:03
You know, and even even Muhammad he he dictated the Quran to
1:00:07
scribes on parchment and so this need to can, you know to
1:00:12
transfer spiritual ideas has changed over time.
1:00:17
The medium, the message stays the same but the medium changes.
1:00:22
OK, so so the mediums change, but the methods deny did not.
1:00:27
And so you know today it's, it's the same method.
1:00:31
It's just a different medium. Instead of writing letters or
1:00:35
writing on parchment or or or you know, tapping out a message
1:00:39
on stone, we're sending sermons through electronic medium to
1:00:45
somebody else. So I think people just need to
1:00:48
think about, you know, before they criticize watching a sermon
1:00:52
online, they need to think about their New Testament, how it's
1:00:56
just a sermon that Paul sent using a letter over a vast
1:01:01
distance. And I see it as the same thing.
1:01:05
I love it. One of the things that me and
1:01:07
Brett were talking about before we got on here was a book I read
1:01:10
while I was in college, and I've never forgotten this statement.
1:01:13
The statement is methods. Methods are many and principles
1:01:17
are few. Methods may change, but
1:01:19
principles never do. It's in a book called Concentric
1:01:22
Circles of Concerns. And when we think really through
1:01:26
this, this thought that our methods of reaching people are
1:01:30
going to change all the time, You know, if you'd asked me
1:01:32
eight years ago, hey, would would you be clipping out part
1:01:35
of your sermon and doing a 62nd to a 92nd clip of your sermon
1:01:40
and putting it on a social media reel, Instagram, whatever it may
1:01:44
be to reach people? And I said heck no, that's dumb.
1:01:47
Why would I do that? But now what do you see?
1:01:50
People are constantly doom strolling, scrolling reels and
1:01:53
tik toks because that's the mode of how people are getting
1:01:57
things. And so I'm getting that because
1:01:59
I want someone to to hear that and to hear a a a word of
1:02:03
encouragement that I gave on a Sunday and say I need more of
1:02:06
that and allow that to drive more people into the House of
1:02:11
Lord to come and to hear what God has for them.
1:02:14
And so methods are many and principles are few.
1:02:16
The doctrines going to stay the same, They're not going to
1:02:19
change. There's not a whole lot of
1:02:20
doctrines and they're not going to change.
1:02:21
But the way we get them out should change over time.
1:02:25
I was talking to Brett a little bit about this.
1:02:27
I said you know back in the seventeen 1800s the Methodist
1:02:30
Church was growing. They were thriving.
1:02:33
They were doing things that know what the churches were doing.
1:02:36
The the Sunday school was invented and and and these ways
1:02:40
that they were reaching people were phenomenal.
1:02:42
Horseback riding preachers that were going around and preaching
1:02:46
circuits and and preaching in different churches were
1:02:49
phenomenal and they were doing things that that the church was
1:02:53
doing to grow so great. And now in these last year's
1:02:57
they've allowed methods to take over and they've dropped all the
1:03:01
principles and the methods have taken over.
1:03:03
And now we see the collapse of the modern Methodist Church and
1:03:08
and what they're doing. But we see even in the
1:03:11
Independent Fundamental Baptist world where man, they came on
1:03:14
the scene in the 1900s and they began to even promote Sunday
1:03:18
school more and even promote bus ministry more.
1:03:20
And the churches grew and people were reached and souls were
1:03:24
saved. And my life was changed through
1:03:26
it. But we got stuck in the methods.
1:03:29
And we said we can't change these things.
1:03:32
These are the doctrines. And all of a sudden that was
1:03:36
killing the church. And now, even today, we've got
1:03:38
to look, we've got to say, OK, what can I do with the modes
1:03:42
that God has given me in today's day and age?
1:03:45
The Apostle Paul didn't have Internet.
1:03:47
Jesus didn't have FaceTime. But we do.
1:03:50
And so how are we going to use it to reach the next generation
1:03:54
that's searching for truth, the searching for answers that we
1:03:58
have, and how are we going to get it to them?
1:04:02
You know, online warships, not going anywhere.
1:04:06
The internet's not going anywhere.
1:04:08
Mobile phones aren't going anywhere.
1:04:09
Listen, when people, when people wake up today, the first thing
1:04:14
they grab is their phone. The last thing they put down at
1:04:19
the end of the day when they go to sleep is their phone.
1:04:22
It it's a it's a total culture shift.
1:04:25
It is the way it is, and for religion and houses of worship
1:04:30
to ignore it is to fade off into obscurity.
1:04:34
And if we want to stay relevant to the people that we're trying
1:04:39
to reach, we're going to have to embrace digital media because it
1:04:44
is most definitely the future of faith, so.
1:04:48
Most definitely. Love it.
1:04:51
All right. Well, I hope you've enjoyed this
1:04:53
today. We've got just a couple more
1:04:55
episodes left. We've got two more episodes
1:04:58
after this that we'll be bringing to you, and hopefully
1:05:02
you will join us in Indiana and for the sake of the gospel in
1:05:06
Israel and until next time, to God.
1:05:09
Not the pastor. Be the glory.
1:05:13
I found my new name, found that good grace.
1:05:17
Found that healing. And the tears fell down my face.
1:05:21
When I found my beginning. That has no ending.
1:05:23
I found that second chance. Found my best friend, Found my
1:05:26
forgiveness, found my happiness. I've been singing ever since I
1:05:29
found my freedom on me. Thanks for listening to the For
1:05:46
Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do
1:05:49
us a favour by liking, subscribing or sharing our
1:05:52
podcast on whichever podcast platform you use.
1:05:56
Be sure to join us next time for the For Freedom podcast.