Latest / The Internal Move Podcast with Fexingo: Lateral Roles, Internal Transfers, and Staying at Your Company / Your Internal Transfer References Are Wrong
Transcript
- Lucas: You've been at the same company for three years. You see a role two floors up — exactly what you want to do next. You update your internal profile, you tell your manager you're looking. And then you wait. Luna: And the waiting part — that's where things usually fall apart. Because the hiring manager picks up the phone. Lucas: Exactly. They call your current boss. That's the informal reference check that happens inside every large organization. And here's the problem — your current boss has every incentive to be honest, but maybe not in a way that helps you. Luna: Right — they're losing a team member. Even a supportive manager can't help but frame your departure as a loss, which comes across as lukewarm. Lucas: I talked to a senior director at a Fortune 500 tech firm — I can't name the company, but think big, think Redmond-adjacent — and she told me about an internal candidate she almost hired. Strong interviewer, great portfolio, exactly the technical background she needed. Luna: Let me guess — reference call killed it. Lucas: Killed it. The candidate's current manager said something like, 'She's great at execution, but I'm not sure she's ready to own a product roadmap.' Off the record. Not a formal HR reference — just a hallway-style conversation between two directors who've worked together for years. Luna: And that one sentence — even if it's not entirely fair — it sticks. Because the hiring manager trusts the person saying it. Lucas: Exactly. And the candidate never knew it happened. She just got the generic rejection: 'We went with someone whose experience more closely matches the role.' No way to defend herself. Luna: So the whole 'ask permission before you apply' model — the one HR keeps telling us to follow — might actually be the riskiest strategy. Lucas: That's the tension. The standard internal transfer playbook says: tell your manager early, be transparent, get their blessing. And that works fine if your manager is your champion. But if they're ambivalent, or if they're worried about backfilling your role, you just handed them the veto. Luna: Which is why you need more than one reference inside the building. You need people who can speak to your work without the baggage of losing you. Lucas: This is actually something we've gotten a lot of listener questions about — how to manage your reputation inside a company where the informal grapevine is more powerful than the formal HR process. And honestly, it's the kind of practical career thinking this show exists to help with. Luna: Yeah — and it's also the kind of thing that takes time to build. You can't create a parallel reference the week you apply. Lucas: Look, I want to be transparent about something. A small number of listeners support this show directly — through buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo — and that's genuinely what keeps these episodes ad-free and focused on stuff like this. No sponsor breaks, no 'brought to you by' interruptions. Luna: It's true. And for anyone who's gotten value from a specific episode, that's the way to make sure more of them get made. We really appreciate it. Lucas: Okay — back to the reference strategy. So the first alternative is what I call a 'parallel reference.' Someone at your level — or one level above — who has worked alongside you on a cross-functional project. They're not your boss. They don't manage you. But they've seen you deliver under pressure. Luna: And they're safer to ask because they're not losing a direct report. They're just a peer or a stakeholder. Lucas: Right. The hiring manager can still call them. And if they say, 'I worked with her on the Q4 launch — she was the one who caught the vendor dependency before it became a crisis' — that's gold. That's a specific, credible endorsement that doesn't come with a side of 'but I need her on my team.' Luna: Second strategy — project sponsors. Someone senior who commissioned a project you led, even if they weren't in your reporting line. Lucas: Yeah, this one is powerful but harder to manufacture. It usually happens naturally when you volunteer for a high-visibility initiative that a director or VP is sponsoring. You deliver, they notice you, and later you can say to a hiring manager, 'Feel free to talk to Sarah in Product — she oversaw the analytics redesign I ran.' Luna: And the hiring manager hears that and thinks — this person has a reputation beyond their own team. That's a big signal. Lucas: Third strategy — skip-level endorsements. Your manager's manager. If you've built even a basic relationship with a skip-level — a quarterly check-in, a thoughtful question in a town hall, a one-pager you sent them on a problem you solved — they can be an incredible reference. Luna: Because they have no stake in keeping you in your current role. They're thinking about talent retention for the whole department, not just one headcount. Lucas: Exactly. And a skip-level saying, 'I've been impressed with Jordan's strategic thinking — I'd hate to lose her to another company, but I'd support her growth inside the firm' — that's almost impossible for a hiring manager to ignore. Luna: So the common thread across all three is: you need to build these relationships before you need the reference. You can't scramble for them in the two weeks between applying and interviewing. Lucas: Right. Which means your internal mobility strategy is really just your day-to-day work strategy — with a little intentionality about who sees what you do. Luna: And one more thing — if you're worried your current manager might give a bad reference, you can actually preempt it. Offer to loop them in on the conversation yourself. Lucas: That's bold. But it can work. You say to the hiring manager, 'I've told my manager I'm exploring this role — would you like me to set up a joint call with the three of us?' Suddenly you're controlling the narrative. Your manager can't give an off-the-record opinion because they're on the record. Luna: It also signals confidence. You're not hiding anything. And you're treating the internal move like a professional transition, not a secret escape plan. Lucas: Alright — let's wrap with a concrete takeaway. Before you apply for your next internal role, write down three names: one parallel colleague, one project sponsor, one skip-level. And if you can't think of three, that's your to-do list for the next quarter. Luna: And if you have a story about an internal reference that helped or hurt your move — we'd love to hear it. You can reach us through the show page. Lucas: That's it for this episode of The Internal Move. I'm Lucas. Luna: And I'm Luna. See you next time.