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Monday Mini: Maladaptive Daydreaming · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is and Samantha and whatcome to stuff? I
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: never told you a prediction of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: And y'all were back on our again, meaning yes, we're
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: talking more trauma related reactions or diagnosis, and this time
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: we're coming back coming with maladaptive daydreaming or m D
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: as they are like giving those initials for it, and
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: yes this is I don't know, I guess I'll have
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: a whole We should do a small playlist of all
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: of like the mental health and trauma things that I
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: have brought in or we have brought in from Like
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, that sounds like me. Oh why yeah, I
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: gotta call me out like that social media because we
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: talk a lot about different types of diagnosis or disorders
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: or even just like responses trauma responses to different things
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: that may not triggered us or things that we did
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: not realize could be a learned behavior. And I think
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: it's fascinating. Again, this comes back from my background in
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: social work and doing a lot of this type of work,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: because you know, mental health and social work go hand
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: in hand. Especially we know a lot of lcsw's are
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: now counselors. But with all of that, yes, this is
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: what I love to do, and this is something that
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I thought was fascinating because I don't think this is
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: necessarily me but I have seen this reaction, and surprisingly,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I will say, I have not seen too much saying
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: this is related specifically more to women. Although when I
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: was looking at the amount of diagnosis for women, what
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: are women most likely diagnosed with and who has the
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: higher diagnoses for different types of disorders? Women do hit
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: anxiety and depression obviously in PTSD at a higher mark men,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: according to much of the research that I've seen, as
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: in fact, there's been an overwhelming like in the last year.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: And I do want to come back to this because
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating a call and high alert to
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: let people know and let professionals know, Hey, women are
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: being diagnosed alarmingly, like, way higher than they have been
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: in years for things like depression, anxiety and PTSD and
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: all of that, and we need to look at why.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I have a feeling it may have something to do
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: with our social structure. I do as well, but I'm
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: gonna leave it at that. But like, hey, we got
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: one victory, but the Supreme Court did straight down the
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: ban for MiFi pristone and holy yay. I was actually
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: shot that it was unanimous.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I too.
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  Speaker 2: I hope they understood. The questioning was pretty intense, and
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I think they knew what they were looking at, being
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: like side eye, what are you doing? Because even though yes,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: it is a part of abortion pill, it's also been
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: around for other things. You've talked about this completely. We've
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: talked about this in our book and why it's important
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: and it's absurd because they want to be jerks, that's
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: how I put it. But with all of that, I'm
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: wondering if some of these diagnoses that have happened as
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: of recently, or maybe just that more women are realizing
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: that they do need help and they're tired of being
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: gas lit by so many people saying that you're just sad,
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: suck it up, and so actually going to seek help.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: So there's so many things that so many of us
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: have decided, Ay, we actually do care about our health
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: and there is something wrong, So let's talk about this,
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: and whether it's like counseling or actual like medication, or
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: it's for sometimes you just need prescription for time off,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: like an actual mental health day that we've been promised
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: for so many years as oftentimes ridiculed. But anyway, so
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: with that, I do want to come and talk about that.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: But today we are talking about maladaptive daydreaming again MD,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: and according to Sleep Foundation dot org, it is quote
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: sometimes known as a daydreaming disorder. Maladaptive daydreaming describes a
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: condition where a person regularly experiences daydreams that are intense
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  Speaker 2: and highly distracting, so distracting in fact, that the person
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: may stop engaging with the task or people in front
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  Speaker 2: of them. These daydreams may be triggered by real life
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  Speaker 2: events or stimuli such as noise, smell, conversation, topic, or movie.
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  Speaker 2: So this is very descriptive about what it is, and
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: we're going to get a little more into it. We're
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: not talking about day dreaming. I do have that question
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: because I know we've all done this. We've all done
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: this while we were driving, having our own thought process
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  Speaker 2: and then realizing, holy crap, how did I end up here?
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  Speaker 2: How did I make it home? Because I don't remember
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: the last ten minutes of my driving. Like I know,
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  Speaker 2: we've all done that. There is a difference between daydreaming
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  Speaker 2: and just being distracted versus maladaptive daydreaming, and we want
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: to make sure that we're going to understand that a
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: little better. In our short segment on Monday, minis yes again.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I do want to say that I did not find
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: too much information about it being gendered other than that
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: the original research for this diagnosis and for this term
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: when they ask for volunteers, and I believe it was
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: mainly through social media that they were trying to get
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: contacts from people to test them and to kind of
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: have that random subject. A lot of it turned out
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: to be women who came back with actual examples, so
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: they were kind of like, is it because of how
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: we researched it, or is it because women are more
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: likely to suffer from my adaptive daydreaming. They also talk
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: about marginalized individuals such as the trans community as well,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: talking about whether it is actually because they are more
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: aware and they're more willing to be a part of
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: this project, or is it because of the actual trauma
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  Speaker 2: that they have gone through that this is that defense mechanism.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: So there seems to be a lot of questions. I know,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of testing, and honestly, in the last
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: two years it really got a big bang in big
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: poll thanks to social media. So more and more people
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: are talking about it, and I think more and more
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  Speaker 2: people are actually researching it. So with that, according to
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: the National Library of Medicine for the National Center of
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Biotechnology of Information, they say, maladaptive daydreaming MD is a
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: proposed mental disorder characterized by excessive compulsive immersion in vivid
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  Speaker 2: and complex, fantastical daydream plots, generating intense emotional involvement, often
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  Speaker 2: accompanied by stereotypical movements. This addictive absorption in daydreaming becomes
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: maladaptive as it consumes many hours a day, generate shame
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: or guilt, hinders achievement of short and long term goals
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  Speaker 2: or tasks, and overall causes clinically significant distress and or
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: interferes with functioning in society or occupational realms. So I
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: definitely have friends who were a part of who would
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: disappear in their bedroom for hours at a time, and
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  Speaker 2: I'd ask what they're doing, and literally they're just sitting
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  Speaker 2: in there, and they don't tell me that they're daydreaming.
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  Speaker 2: But I'm wondering, perhaps that's what was happening, because weren't
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: necessarily reading, They weren't necessarily you know, like they were
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  Speaker 2: just in there I have been caught embarrassing moment for
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: me where I am like spewing conversations to myself in
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  Speaker 2: a bedroom like by myself for like thirty minutes to
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: an hour of time, and I been asked, who are
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: you talking to? Have you ever had those moments there?
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: No, it's me. So this is interesting because again, a
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: lot of times when we like split up the research,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know what Samantha the topic will be that
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Samantha's bringing And I have said before and it is
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: still true. One of my very favorite things to do
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: is in that moment when you wake up and it's
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: too early to get up, is I daydream. But it's
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: never been like I'm in front of a person like
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: it doesn't feel it feels.
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  Speaker 2: More like you set a time, set a time for it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I'm in bed and I'm not going to
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  Speaker 1: get up, so I'm just going to daydream. So I'm
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: interested to see if at the end of this, I'm
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: gonna be like, oh no, I've got an issue.
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  Speaker 2: But it's never been like.
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  Speaker 1: I'm talking to a person or I feel like it's
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: impacting my job or something like that.
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  Speaker 2: Right, And that's part of the conversation, so it continues.
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  Speaker 2: Maladaptive daydreamers md ers report a strong urge to daydream
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  Speaker 2: whenever they can, an annoyance whenever they cannot, and repeated
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  Speaker 2: unsuccessful efforts to control, cutback, or stop daydreaming. Like other
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  Speaker 2: behavioral addictions, negative emotions follow their daily daydreaming activity. However,
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  Speaker 2: mental health practitioners are often disparaging of the problem, resulting
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: in suboptimal treatment and heightened loneliness and distress. And yeah,
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  Speaker 2: in just in case you're wondering if this applies to you,
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  Speaker 2: they compare the norm versus MD, they say. Importantly, different
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  Speaker 2: types of mental states in which one does not focus
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: on the present may be associated with psychological difficulties such
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: as rumination, worry, thinking about the past or future, or
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  Speaker 2: mind wondering. However, MD is essentially different than normal daydreaming
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  Speaker 2: and mind wandering, defined quite broadly as internally generated or
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  Speaker 2: off task thought. Widespread daydreaming or mind wandering is often
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  Speaker 2: a spontaneous divergence from a present task in favor of
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  Speaker 2: past or future recollections, such as activating a memory or
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  Speaker 2: thinking about ones to do lists for the rest of
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  Speaker 2: the day. Self report mind wandering items span inattention and
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  Speaker 2: concentration difficulties, a scattered line of thought making mistakes due
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  Speaker 2: to automatic behavior and obliviousness to surroundings. On the contrary,
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  Speaker 2: MD is characterized by inventing rich, fantastical plots and stories
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  Speaker 2: with a dynamic emotional range that are often unrealistic and
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  Speaker 2: distant from the day dreamer's actual life. Moreover, they are
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  Speaker 2: usually continuously evolving over long periods of time, like a
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  Speaker 2: soap opera, which is very different than the somewhat random,
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  Speaker 2: fickle contents of common mind wondering NMD. Individuals feel compelled
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  Speaker 2: to continue their fantasy like many people would feel about
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  Speaker 2: watching their favorite show on TV, and many report that
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  Speaker 2: they initiate the MD episode with awareness and intent.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I did do that, and I have talked about that
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  Speaker 1: on a previous podcast. When I was in middle school,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I had a dream and I could like initiate it
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  Speaker 1: and it was ongoing, and I would treat it like
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  Speaker 1: a TV show, like I didn't know what was going
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  Speaker 1: to happen. I but it still was like when I
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  Speaker 1: was sleeping, right, it was still like a not happening
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: during the day. Yeah, that did ring pretty true.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: How many us There's a bit more information from wondermind
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  Speaker 2: dot com. Daydreaming actually exists on a spectrum. On one end,
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  Speaker 2: you have the mind wandering type of daydreaming, which is brief, typical,
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  Speaker 2: mundane and subject matter and doesn't impair functioning in any way,
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  Speaker 2: says Ali Sommer, a PhD, a clinical psychologist and maladaptive
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  Speaker 2: daydreaming researcher specializing in trauma and disassociative disorders. On the
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  Speaker 2: opposite end of the spectrum, you have maladaptive daydreaming, a
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  Speaker 2: term coined by doctor Summer himself in a two thousand
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: and two qualitative study of six patients in his practice,
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  Speaker 2: where he describes it as quote extensive fantasy activity that
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  Speaker 2: replaces human interaction and or interferes with academic, interpersonal, or
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: vocational functioning. In fact, there will be a clear immersive
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: visual sounds and emotional elements, so that they are way
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: more intense than the run of the mill day dreams
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  Speaker 2: and typically include elaborate storylines that continue over time. He adds,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: so basically, it's when you daydream so vividly and frequently
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that it negatively impacts your life. So you have I
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  Speaker 2: don't think you would be maledaptive daydreaming, but you are
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  Speaker 2: intensely daydreaming because you don't allow it to actually take
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: over your daily life, like you're not annoyed that you
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: have to do something instead of being able to daydream. However,
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  Speaker 2: you are very intensely So I'm assuming with everything else
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: and diagnosis, it would be a spectrum if it so again.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: And I wanted to put this out because I the
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: research I'm looking into, I can't tell if it's actually
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: been proposed to put into the d S and five
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  Speaker 2: as an actual disorder, and I think that's where it is.
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  Speaker 2: Social workers, psychologists, researchers out there. Let me know if
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: I'm all off on this, but I think they have
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  Speaker 2: proposed it but has not especially been submitted and or
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: admitted into the DSM five. But people do recognize it
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  Speaker 2: in the community, so they may not say it's a disorder,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: they might not actually say that out loud, but they
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  Speaker 2: have seen it and they know that it exists. And
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: then there are those who do feel very strongly that
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  Speaker 2: it should be added to the d S and five
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  Speaker 2: because it can be an impairment, and they've even talked
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: about how it could be a comorbidity to other diagnosis.
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  Speaker 2: But before we jump into that, here's some actual symptoms.
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  Speaker 2: According to healthline dot com, a person with maladaptive daydreaming
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  Speaker 2: make experience one or more of the following extremely vivid
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: daydreams with their own characters, settings, plots, and other detailed
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: storyline features, reflecting a complex inner world daydreams triggered by
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: real life events. Difficulty completing everyday tasks, difficulty sleeping at night,
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  Speaker 2: an overwhelming desire to continue daydreaming, performing repetitive movements, wild daydreaming,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: making facial expressions, wild daydreaming, whispering and talking wild daydreaming,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: daydreaming for lengthy periods up to several hours. Significant distress
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  Speaker 2: about daydreaming, awareness that the internal fantasy world is different
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  Speaker 2: from the external reality. And I feel like the awareness
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: part should be a good thing. Should yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I feel again, as someone who is connecting to a
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  Speaker 1: lot of this pretty hard, I feel like the difference
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  Speaker 1: would be would be, Hey, this is my daydream, this
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  Speaker 1: is reality.
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  Speaker 2: I can't daydream all the time.
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  Speaker 1: I will tell you, like, sometimes when I'm working, I'll
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: get like the poll, but I don't do it. Are Like,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I don't doesn't stop by. It's more of like Oh,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I wish I could do that right now, but I can't.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: So it sounds like more of the compulsion or the
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: control of it, right, So I do think like recognizing
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: the difference is a good thing. It sounds like a
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: really good thing.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: It's also part of the diagnosis, apparently, and there are
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: likelihoods that maladaptive daydreaming is a comorbidity to other diagnoses,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: including ADHD, OCD, borderline personality disorder PTSD, and many more.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: And here's a quote from that Helpline article talking about ADHD.
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  Speaker 2: MD Experts have found the links between maladaptive daydreaming and ADHD.
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  Speaker 2: A twenty seventeen study looked at thirty nine people with
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: maladaptive daydreaming. Almost seventy seven percent of the participants had
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: both maladaptive daydreaming and ADHD. So I've never really think
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think I have ADHD. I think I'm
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: very easily distracted though, so like and I'm also maybe
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: I do. Maybe I'm in denial because I'm like, I
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: don't have all the other factors except for when it
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: comes to actually working, and I'll do everything but work,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and that includes daydreaming. I will say that like about
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: possibilities of our podcast or our episodes, whether it's me
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: thinking about it or more than me talking through it
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: as if like this is going to be amazing, or
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: interviewing talking about it. I feel like I'm calling myself
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: out a lot in this episode anyway. And then from
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: the Guardian article written in twenty twenty two, they write, intriguingly,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: maladaptive daydreaming seems to be far more common among people
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: who have been diagnosed with attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: with a recent paper reporting a prevalence of about twenty percent.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Moreover seventy seven percent of people with maladaptive daydreaming have
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: been diagnosed with ADHD. The constant desire to slip into
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: day dreams. It seems it's contributing to difficulties and concentration
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: and focus, and this group may require differing different forms
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: of treatment from other people with ADHD, so they're saying
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: that they need to approach it differently, which again maybe
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: why they want this diagnosis so much, or a disorder
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: placed in the DS and five because they'll be able
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: to have a conversation about what that treatment looks like.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: And from several of the articles, including research articles. They
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: talk about using OCD type of treatments for maladaptive daydreaming
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: and whether or not it's been successful. I think it's
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: a little early to tell. They also have an actual
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: questionnaire for you to find your own spectrum. So this
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: is with Sohmer and his researching team. It says in
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: the actual scale, the sixteen item maladaptive Dreaming scale in
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: DS sixteen, that's what it's called. In answering the following questions,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: please refer to your daydream activities in the last month,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: if not otherwise specified, choose the option that best fits you.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: So they give you that zero to one hundred percent
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: zero being never to one hundred percent being extremely frequent
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: with sixteen questions, and based on that they give you
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: this diagnosis. I'm not really sure how verified. I mean,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's just like how they tested
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: for themselves for their research because this was from the
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: original research team versus like, yes, this is effective. So
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: like one of the questions is, some people notice that
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: certain music can trigger their daydreaming. To what extent does
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: music activate your daydreaming? So you would have that scale.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Another question is if you go through a period of
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: time when you're not able to daydream as much as
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: usual due to real world obligations. How distressed are you
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: by your inability to find time to daydream? So they're
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: talking about the level, like what does it cause you
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: some people experience difficulties in controlling or limiting their daydream
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: How difficult has it been for you to keep your
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: daydreaming under control? So, like they have all this questions
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: on here. Oh, it says how often are your current
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: daydreams accompanied by physical activity such as pacing, swinging, or
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: shaking your hands? And I found that interesting because they're
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: like this whole conversation really well, It's like one of
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the videos I saw was a woman talking about she
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: was on her walking machine and she was in her
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: own mind daydreaming. But in that day dream, she ended
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: up being on that thing for like three hours or
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: something like she was it was an extensive amount of
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: time without her realizing, which I'm might, No, I know,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: when I'm doing physical activity, I don't. I don't like it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I wish I could zone out like that. But like
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: it found it interesting that people really did have those
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: moments with this. And again, like I said, the more
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: content that I'm looking at and maybe it's because one
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: of the FYP I'm on, the research that I'm on
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: it is based on a lot of examples on women
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: and or people who are in that type of community,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: and it again may have everything to do with who
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: is more willing to take these tests, who are being
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: found through social media? Was their FYP? All these different things,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: But it was a pretty fascinating conversation and again, like
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: what type of diagnosis this would be so new for
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: D S and five? Is it necessary? And it would
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: like explain so much for people because I know the
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: one thing about the shame part about like feeling guilty
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: for being an adult that daydreams about things when I
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: should be like locked into reality and following my responsibility,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: that this has maybe been underdiagnosed or ignored for so
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: long and shamed for so long that many people don't
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: even want to look at it as a possible. Oh
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: this is maybe a mental health issue.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think there's a lot we could
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: come back and talk about with all of this. Yes,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: because it is. It just makes sense to me if
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: you've gone through any kind of trauma or anything like that,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: that you would have this thing right that you went to.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I also want to know how many authors and fend
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: from writers would be dised with this.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about my own thing, and I'm like, this
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: is where I get a lot of my good ideas,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: and you're telling me it's bad.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: But it can be disruptive to some people.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, we should. We should come back, We
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: should come back. I'm always worried I'll get to the
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: end of one of these episodes, Samanth, and you'll be like,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and this is you.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I mean that maybe feel like this is us.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Well, listeners, if you have any thoughts
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: about this or any resources.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Please let us know.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: You can emails at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeartMedia
• 20:36
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• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff Never
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Told You. We're on YouTube, we have a tea public store,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Christina or executive producer Maya and our contribute Joey. Thank
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you and thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told
• 20:53
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• 20:55
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• 20:56
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