Latest / The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show / The $50 Billion Bet on Rural Healthcare | Sunny Lu Williams | E198

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The $50 Billion Bet on Rural Healthcare | Sunny Lu Williams | E198 · The Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show

0:01
[music]
0:11
Hello and welcome back to the Advancing
0:13
Healthcare Innovation Show. I am your
0:15
host, Michael Stamatinos, and if you are
0:17
new to us, welcome. We are super excited
0:21
to have you here because for a few
0:23
different reasons. We're having some
0:24
incredible conversations with real
0:26
leaders that are painstakingly reshaping
0:30
the future of healthcare. So our
0:32
objective is to bring these stories to
0:35
you and bring them to life. So let me
0:36
just if you're first time tuning in, let
0:37
me just sort of take a quick step aside
0:39
and just sort of fill you in a little
0:41
bit more about what we're really trying
0:43
to get done here. So again, our focus is
0:45
on bringing real stories of innovation
0:47
and leadership uh and transformation,
0:49
access to life, and not just stuff that
0:51
you read uh in in an article, but like
0:54
real stuff, people that are in the
0:55
trenches getting things done. And the
0:57
objective is to just to kind of shine
0:59
the light on those that the light
1:01
doesn't necessarily get shined on
1:03
because when you think about innovation
1:04
and all these things, uh 99% of
1:06
innovation happens outside of the
1:08
organizations that we've all come to
1:10
know that are innovators. So, this is
1:14
going to be a really fun conversation.
1:15
If you haven't checked out any of our
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historical interviews, wherever you are
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now, if you're watching this, if you're
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listening to this, however you're
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consuming this, please hit the subscribe
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button now so that any of the new
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interviews come directly to you. So, I'm
1:32
super excited about today's
1:33
conversation, but I want to start I want
1:35
to tell you a story. And it starts in
1:37
Taiwan. A woman leaves. She comes to
1:40
America. She doesn't know the language.
1:43
She doesn't know the system completely
1:46
in a new environment. She takes her
1:48
citizenship tests, passes. She takes her
1:51
driver test, passes, and then she starts
1:54
a company in 1992.
1:58
This is one of the first femaleowned IT
2:01
companies in this country. Um, she then
2:05
passes it to her daughter.
2:08
her daughter passes it to her
2:10
granddaughter. Three generations of
2:13
women,
2:14
three generations that are building
2:16
something, building something that
2:17
lasts. And if if you all have been
2:19
listening to the show for a while, you
2:20
know that I have this fascination of
2:22
duration, enduring, building things that
2:25
last. And sitting across me right now is
2:29
the granddaughter Sunonny Lou Williams
2:31
is the president of TechServe
2:33
Corporation. She's a Purdue alumni,
2:36
Kelly School MBA. She's the winner of
2:39
the 2024 Burton D. Morgan
2:41
Entrepreneurship Award. Sick resume
2:44
background. Amazing. And here's what I
2:47
want why I want you to pay attention
2:49
today. Because there is $50 billion on
2:55
the table right now, federal money
2:58
sitting inside the rural health
2:59
transformation program built to do one
3:02
thing, transform rural healthcare inside
3:07
of communities that need it most. So
3:09
Indiana alone, I think they got like $27
3:12
million according to my research just
3:15
for one year. Like so the clock is
3:17
running and the question is you know
3:20
whether rural providers uh and
3:22
communities who need this most actually
3:26
can do something with it. So today's
3:29
guest Sunny is going to talk about that.
3:32
She and her team are launching this
3:33
rural health transformation program
3:35
advisory services in partnership with
3:37
the Indiana Rural Health Association. So
3:39
we're going to talk about a bunch of
3:40
things. Um but you know what? I think
3:42
she's figured out something that most
3:44
people in this space haven't yet. So,
3:46
Sunny, it's great to see you. Welcome to
3:49
the show.
3:51
>> Thank you so much, Michael. Uh,
3:52
phenomenal. I I'm already just excited
3:56
about not only where the country is
3:58
going, but where each and every single
4:00
rural locality has the opportunity to
4:03
position themselves, but they have to
4:05
show voice and they should have to show
4:08
>> really endurance of
4:11
participation where they're leading. And
4:14
I love the just the context of you how
4:17
you framed this because it goes back to
4:20
being very relational in order for us to
4:23
be communal to get this work done
4:25
together.
4:26
>> Totally. So before we dig into that all
4:28
that um because you know I'm I'm the son
4:31
of immigrant parents
4:32
>> and your grandmother came to this
4:34
country not speaking a lick of the
4:35
language. she started a company. Um, and
4:39
I kind of want to start there because I
4:41
think that story to me tells us
4:45
everything about who you are and why
4:47
you're doing what you're doing. So, sort
4:49
of take take me back. Um, what do you
4:54
know about like why she did it?
4:56
>> Yeah. Tremend tremendous legacy, right?
4:58
A big shoulders to [laughter]
5:01
have to continue carrying forward. Well,
5:03
so my grandmother and my grandfather had
5:06
some just tremendous opportunities over
5:08
their lifetimes just just huge changes
5:10
within the world and because of that
5:14
came tremendous opportunity. So my
5:16
grandmother had always had this
5:18
entrepreneurship
5:20
um area of focus where she just looked
5:24
around her and said how can what I do
5:26
make my family's life better and how can
5:29
it connect to what my children are doing
5:31
at the time. before she even came to the
5:34
states. Um, as her children were
5:37
growing, she had a number of just kind
5:40
of small neighborhood businesses. Uh, a
5:42
coffee shop and ice cream parlor when
5:44
the kids were at middle school that
5:46
really kind of exploded as they went
5:48
into high school and just leveraging the
5:51
local workforce, training her kids,
5:55
friends, and just having everybody be
5:58
inclusive and part as part of the
5:59
business. Well, during that time frame,
6:02
the US put out a policy inviting uh
6:07
talent to the United States under what
6:09
was overseas known as a computer science
6:11
visa. [laughter] Like if you were in
6:14
that field, then you had an opportunity
6:16
to come and literally establish the
6:18
American dream. And so, of her four
6:21
children, three of them went on the
6:23
computer science visa and came to the
6:26
United States. and she said, [snorts]
6:27
you know, if I if they're going, that's
6:29
the path. So, I'm going to get ready and
6:32
get excited. And so, she started
6:34
learning English through um I I almost
6:38
said podcast, but radio stations
6:40
[laughter] back in the time that had
6:43
English language learning for little
6:45
kids. And she, you know, no
6:46
embarrassment, no holds barred. She
6:48
said, "That's what I'm going to do." So,
6:50
she had a passable conversational
6:53
English,
6:54
>> but she's 94 now, and she still listens
6:58
to now podcasts and she's got her own on
7:02
her cell phone, her her list of things
7:04
that she listens to in English
7:07
>> to not only keep up with world politics,
7:09
but just, right?
7:12
>> So, she came to the States
7:13
>> and that was her new learning challenge.
7:16
How to communicate.
7:18
>> Yeah. look at the environment, see the
7:20
neighborhood in a totally different way.
7:23
>> And so my hats off to her. She she's
7:25
just a force. [laughter]
7:28
>> Yeah. I was gonna say an example of a
7:30
growth mindset living it out.
7:34
>> Absolutely. 100%. And when you think
7:37
about it, that transforms everything,
7:40
right? When you as an individual has a
7:42
growth mindset, when you have the
7:44
opportunity to say in this current
7:47
painoint, I'm not going to see this as a
7:49
negative. I'm not going to see this as a
7:50
challenge. I'm going to see this as how
7:53
can I do better? What is the
7:54
opportunity?
7:56
>> And then to transcend that to what is
7:58
the system
8:00
>> that is holding [clears throat] back and
8:02
how can we transform the system. That is
8:05
what we're really seeking not only in
8:08
individuals but organizations at large
8:11
to ensure that we are improving as a
8:14
society overall.
8:16
>> Yeah. You know, since kind of going in
8:18
and digging in and just sort of, you
8:20
know, prepping, researching for this
8:22
conversation, I've been I've been sort
8:24
of pondering um your third generation to
8:27
lead this company. like that's like kind
8:30
of a heavy weight that falls on your
8:33
shoulders that I don't think many either
8:35
understand or even fully appreciate.
8:39
Was there like ever a moment where you
8:42
thought, you know, that this isn't this
8:44
isn't my path. I'm I'm going to do
8:46
something
8:48
entirely different.
8:50
>> I had that very early on. So, uh,
8:53
interestingly and ironically enough, I
8:56
apprenticed under another family
8:58
business for [laughter]
9:00
15 years before I came and took on the
9:03
helm of this our family business.
9:06
>> And it it was a a very humbling
9:10
experience across the board,
9:12
>> right? I had the pleasure in hindsight
9:14
of graduating and I say pleasure kind of
9:17
tongue and cheek during every major
9:19
recession. And so there wasn't there
9:21
wasn't [laughter] a lot of opportunity.
9:23
So you you had to have some fortitude to
9:25
say, "Okay, you're just gonna land where
9:27
you land and do and learn what you can
9:31
and then structure the path." So back in
9:35
uh 2004 coming out of undergrad I
9:39
started a part-time with a telecom firm
9:41
and I saw
9:43
>> the difficulties of running and
9:47
continuing to scale a family business
9:50
when personalities clashed when you
9:52
still had to be parent and child, right?
9:55
and sibling
9:56
>> outside of the work environment and how
9:59
much strain it took to really have a
10:05
functioning
10:06
business, let alone a very supportive
10:11
family.
10:12
>> And so it took things bigger than the
10:14
individuals themselves
10:16
>> really want to strive towards that. And
10:19
so I took those lessons, some some were
10:22
what not to do into our own family
10:25
practice and really ensured that
10:30
as I came on, we had a two-year
10:32
transition period. And I was very clear
10:34
to the leadership that were family
10:37
members and the leadership that were not
10:39
that
10:40
>> this is the culture and and this is how
10:44
we are going to treat each other
10:45
>> and this is how we are going to have
10:48
communication and understanding and of
10:51
course disagreement but all
10:53
>> was that a new standard that you were
10:55
setting or was it sort of kind of in
10:57
kind of lock step with what the team was
10:59
already used to? You know, I will say
11:01
that it's a little um in deference to
11:05
and of course out of respect to my
11:07
parents and my elders, I would say that
11:08
was a newer standard. [laughter]
11:11
Uh I think culturally as well when you
11:13
have organizations that are made up of
11:16
individuals that are very strong in the
11:20
immigrant culture and then also very
11:22
strong in the East Asian culture, you
11:24
have a lot of difference. And so
11:26
[clears throat] when you have
11:27
difference, you don't necessarily have
11:29
all the best ideas come to light. And so
11:31
we really had to work on accounting for
11:34
>> I want to hear what you think, but I
11:37
want you to back it up with research. I
11:40
want you to have a solution. I want you
11:42
to really be
11:44
positioned to say this is why we need to
11:47
go in this direction rather than
11:51
what was happening which was more of a
11:55
>> uh risk mitigation
11:57
conversation.
11:58
>> Yeah.
11:59
>> And more of a this is not how we used to
12:02
do things
12:03
>> but um less on a tactical more on a
12:05
strategic level. Speaking of, you know,
12:08
new direction, in in 2018, you you made
12:11
a you made a pretty pretty bold move.
12:13
You acquired a healthcare division, you
12:15
know, a population health management
12:17
platform.
12:18
>> Yeah.
12:19
>> And you started to steer the company in
12:21
a in a new direction. Walk walk me
12:24
through that like what did you see?
12:27
>> So, great question. When we first
12:29
started as Techserve, it was very core
12:32
hardware
12:34
um computing asset management and
12:36
>> Yeah. full-on installation projects. By
12:39
the time you went to 2018,
12:42
that was not the course of business and
12:45
really not the areas of specialty. So,
12:48
what I thought was interesting is what a
12:50
tremendous book of business on the
12:53
private on the public education side. as
12:55
running it as a private sector company.
12:58
>> And the aha to me was
13:01
we have families going into the school
13:03
system on a daily basis that are not
13:07
receiving population health.
13:09
>> Yeah.
13:10
>> Right. They're not receiving mental
13:11
health, behavioral health, primary care,
13:13
any of those components. So we this is a
13:16
front door that we have totally missed.
13:19
It's not barred. It's it's fully
13:22
resourced and run. Mhm.
13:24
>> And there's even occupancy opportunities
13:27
[laughter]
13:28
of having healthc care be specifically
13:30
supported within these environments.
13:32
>> And so we looked at the population
13:34
health
13:35
>> um really as an opportunity to go,
13:38
>> you've got family nights. Everybody
13:40
understands what a health fair is,
13:42
right? Extend that access, extend that
13:44
service. So we literally went from
13:47
hosting health fairs combined with back
13:50
to school nights um family engagements
13:53
and parent teacher conferences through
13:56
to having then the providers come in
14:00
sequence schedule and stack their
14:02
services in support of helping the
14:05
school communities and thereby all the
14:07
families within the neighborhood.
14:09
>> Because if you look at it, you have
14:13
choices in your commute. You choose
14:15
where you work,
14:16
>> where you work out, where you go to
14:19
church.
14:19
>> And a lot of times the length of commute
14:23
>> is longer. So you're bypassing your own
14:26
neighborhood.
14:27
>> Yeah.
14:27
>> But the commute where your kids go to
14:30
school in a in a public environment, so
14:32
public school,
14:33
>> is still limited by where you live,
14:36
>> right? Like charters, vouchers, all of
14:38
that is is creating a whole another a
14:41
whole another challenge to that. But for
14:43
the most part, public schools, you are
14:45
bound by where you live. So that commute
14:48
really defines neighborhoods.
14:50
>> Yeah.
14:50
>> And when we look at that and the aha
14:53
was, of course, we would do population
14:55
health on neighborhood level. Why would
14:57
I wait to go through and resequence all
15:00
of this data from managed Medicaid or
15:03
resequence the data from the hospitals?
15:04
Who who knows what that front door was?
15:06
Maybe it was the closest ER and they're
15:09
>> in a rural environment. It's 40 miles
15:11
away. or maybe they've gone through
15:14
seven different ERS, different health
15:17
systems.
15:17
>> Yeah.
15:18
>> Within the last couple months. So, the
15:20
school environment became our
15:22
our stamp in the ground of this is where
15:27
localized healthcare access
15:30
should be fortified in order for our
15:34
neighborhoods to be healthier. And so we
15:36
went through all sorts of partnerships,
15:39
FQC's, federally qualified health
15:41
centers [clears throat] that ended up
15:42
doing HERSA designations as satellite
15:44
sites inside of the school
15:47
>> and also partnerships across providers
15:50
that say, "Hey, I don't have resources
15:51
to staff every day." I go, "Great,
15:53
>> it's a program then, right? What hours
15:56
can you do? What does that look like?"
15:58
Right? and then students, families,
16:00
teachers, staff, how can we get
16:02
connected to ensure that we've got your
16:04
appointments set for those that are in
16:07
the greatest need?
16:09
>> That's amazing. Talk to me about
16:12
Statwatch and like what it actually does
16:15
in the real world. Like what does it
16:17
look like on the ground when it's when
16:19
it's working?
16:21
>> It's interesting. Uh it is four things
16:23
in one.
16:24
So the first one is it's a comprehensive
16:26
health fair management system. So check
16:30
in, take take all your vitals, go do
16:32
your labs, etc. And then you get um the
16:35
access to your print out print out
16:38
because you know health barriers are
16:40
still very physical for
16:42
>> but you get it in basically tied into
16:44
email because we are the provider and we
16:47
share business associate agreement with
16:49
all the covered entities. Now you've got
16:51
essentially a very very light community
16:54
health information exchange from that
16:55
health fair.
16:56
>> That's right.
16:57
>> And so that's iteration one. Iteration
17:01
two is it's a case management tool. It's
17:03
a very simple case management tool for
17:07
front-end entrylevel uh healthcare
17:10
workforce and also very veteran
17:12
workforce that do not have access to
17:14
tools because my goodness we're still
17:16
not spending dollars
17:18
>> in support of those that go into the
17:20
four walls of the home which doesn't
17:22
make sense to me
17:23
>> right. Yeah. So, the system has been
17:24
used by community health workers, peer
17:26
supports professionals,
17:29
uh, doulas, so our our birthing
17:32
professionals, home health agents, and
17:34
we've even had it be used from a school
17:37
perspective in support of just what
17:39
certain teachers are seeing within the
17:42
classroom and transition that into what
17:45
that would look like for school-based
17:48
healthcare.
17:49
>> Wow. The third iteration is uh I I say
17:53
this with with a heavy sigh and a little
17:56
bit of a um way back when nostalgia.
18:01
Uh it's a remote pure monitoring system.
18:04
So when we first pushed into Statwatch,
18:08
uh this was probably in the 2012s.
18:12
The context at the time was this, hey,
18:15
how do we really manage populations with
18:18
chronic disease and how do
18:19
[clears throat] we support them in
18:21
remote patient monitoring in the home,
18:23
caregiver access and support and just
18:25
communications, right? So, we were part
18:27
of
18:28
>> uh
18:30
Commonwealth Alliance, direct trust, all
18:32
of the messaging, communication
18:34
protocols and so forth.
18:36
>> My team and I thought this is really too
18:38
difficult. you you just need a closed
18:40
loop system that anyone can access. So
18:42
we ended up partnering with a number of
18:44
uh Taiwanese and South Korean
18:46
manufacturers and
18:48
>> got the hardware that was being uh white
18:51
labeled in the states for sometimes 7x
18:54
of manufacturer price point and we just
18:57
>> we just accessed it. So we went to
19:00
market with a twoin- one uh blood
19:02
glucose and blood pressure meter, right?
19:05
Right. So if you think about the cost of
19:06
glucose meter, cost of blood pressure
19:07
meter separately
19:09
>> came to market with that it was sub $80
19:12
and it was for the workforce to use
19:14
because it was you could use it one to
19:16
one but it was intended to be a one to
19:19
many and the strips
19:21
>> were like seven cents, right?
19:25
>> Wow.
19:25
>> And you could do A1C as well which was a
19:27
little more expensive about about 12
19:30
cents. But you completely changed the
19:32
dynamic of being able to have
19:35
an individual that was clea waved
19:37
trained on the manufacturing devices. We
19:40
had our ISO 1345 getting really tactical
19:43
about the certifications.
19:44
>> We had to navigate all of that, right?
19:46
Yeah.
19:46
>> And so as a essentially a light
19:50
distributor, we're now providing access
19:53
to the systems and the tools. We're
19:54
training the workforce. Everything's
19:57
lower cost. And that's what's intended
19:59
to be. It's intended to be the lowest
20:03
cost of access for the greatest amount
20:06
of care for that workforce who is not
20:11
our employees. It is trained partners,
20:14
local health departments, school
20:15
systems, right? Uh and then the kind of
20:18
the coalitions and consortiums just kept
20:20
building and building and building. Now
20:21
we have faith-based organizations that
20:23
are running their own private clinics
20:24
and that's fantastic. And we're going
20:26
through the mechanisms of here's how you
20:28
get uh here's how you apply, here's how
20:31
you get certified, here's how you bill
20:32
for it. Because if you're doing the
20:34
work,
20:36
get the compensation, but also more
20:38
importantly
20:39
>> showcase the economic impact that the
20:42
work is being done because if you cannot
20:44
measure it, then you cannot showcase
20:47
that there is health care needs here.
20:50
>> Yeah.
20:51
>> And that those individuals need access.
20:54
they just don't prefer to use the
20:56
traditional systems because traditional
20:58
traditional systems haven't worked for
21:00
them in the past.
21:01
>> Do you do you publish that? I mean, who
21:04
who um who do you share that with? Who
21:06
do you share those with?
21:08
>> Yeah, it's a great question. So, up
21:09
until last year, we never published it
21:12
under TechServe. Like, we would write
21:14
the publications in support of
21:16
>> our clinical researchers, our principal
21:18
investigators, which was always with
21:20
partners, right? And we never did that
21:22
because we felt very strongly that as
21:25
the technology
21:27
undergurting as the project management
21:30
and then ultimately as the supportive
21:32
evaluative on the economic impact
21:34
component of it we wanted other voices.
21:37
So many of our researchers were very
21:40
veteran clinical researchers partnered
21:42
with more junior researchers from a
21:43
community based participation.
21:45
>> And so we wanted them to not only you
21:48
know love their craft and [laughter]
21:50
support that out into the community but
21:52
we really felt like our inputs were
21:55
important not the overall authorship.
21:58
>> Well last year was a was a catastrophic
22:00
year. uh we're still right receiving
22:03
federal fiscal year 25 funding
22:05
opportunities that were supposed to have
22:07
been already awarded and committed to
22:09
the community even now in June of what
22:12
would be federal fiscal year 26 right
22:15
>> so it's very delayed and so it was
22:17
catastrophic for us because we have a
22:20
significant
22:21
portfolio in federal and state
22:24
>> so last year in the March time frame uh
22:27
we got award awarded did in November
22:31
2024,
22:32
opportunities completely
22:35
>> rescended. So, right, nothing will not
22:39
move forward. And our
22:41
>> business model is because of federal, we
22:43
usually have a three-year pipeline. And
22:46
it just so happened that these years
22:48
kind of cascade upon each other. So, we
22:50
knew 2025 was going to be a closing year
22:54
for many of our opportunities. So we we
22:57
hit it hard right at the middle of 23
23:00
all the way through 24 and we had a
23:02
significant portfolio of awards going
23:05
into 25. All of those were rescended.
23:09
Michael almost 20 million was rescended
23:11
out of those um out of those contracted
23:14
awards. Then in March we were doed. So
23:18
>> in 22, 23 and 24, many of the
23:23
opportunities were classified as health
23:27
equity,
23:28
>> right?
23:29
>> That that was one of the key uh
23:30
vocabulary that was considered
23:34
whatever the whatever the doge criteria
23:37
was. And so then we had additionally
23:40
significant number of staff work orders
23:42
which left the community
23:44
really impacted. So what I mean by that
23:47
is we are well known as a technical
23:50
assistance partner
23:52
>> and so [clears throat]
23:53
we actually will issue out local
23:56
community funding on behalf of state
23:58
agencies.
23:59
>> Oh that's interesting.
24:01
>> That Doge impact impacted over 170
24:06
grantees that we were managing that then
24:08
no longer received the dollars to
24:12
[clears throat] support and and move
24:13
forward. So we are very very thankful
24:15
for a number of private foundations that
24:18
came in and stepped in to bridge the
24:19
gap. One of those being the Robert Wood
24:21
Johnson Foundation who moved very
24:23
quickly to say we understand what's
24:25
happening within the space. Here's
24:27
opportunities. If you lost federal
24:29
funding, apply and um seek support. And
24:33
so a number of our
24:35
um administrative opportunities uh were
24:39
funded because of the academic research
24:42
evaluation and then ultimately uh the
24:45
necessity of it continuing in the
24:48
community. But when you're
24:49
>> but here's here's the common thing that
24:51
I'm noticing now is like
24:52
>> when you mentioned about your leadership
24:54
team doing research backing it up with
24:56
data. I mean by doing that you were able
24:58
to kind of showcase the efficacy of the
25:00
things that you were doing. you had the
25:02
data to support it and therefore when
25:04
these other you know other alternative
25:06
routes of funding opportunities came up
25:08
like you all were prepared. So kind of
25:12
the the timing it's amazing how kind of
25:14
the timing of things works obviously
25:15
it's like man this is a big setback and
25:17
then it's like wait a second does
25:20
>> you know does that teach us something
25:22
you know how do we learn from this
25:24
>> you know what are the risks that we
25:25
carry forward and then thinking about
25:27
those as you're making your next you
25:29
know three to five moves ahead
25:32
>> and I think that culturally we've always
25:34
been very focused on not only the intent
25:40
But the outcomes and that's important
25:43
because I think you cannot be strategic
25:45
on intent. You can only be strategic on
25:48
the outcomes. And when we started in
25:50
population health
25:52
>> years and years ago,
25:53
>> we looked at and said the goal is
25:55
healthier communities. That's the goal.
25:57
>> And if I look at all the different
25:59
countries that have done this with
26:02
prevention in mind, then the intent
26:05
becomes the prevention. The outcome is
26:07
healthier communities. When I saw what
26:10
was happening within the federal
26:12
context, of course, there was a hope
26:14
that it wouldn't impact us. Yeah.
26:16
>> There was also preparation. What was
26:19
unprecedented was the speed and also
26:23
quite frankly the the poor
26:24
communication, right? Ne never in this
26:27
20-year
26:29
>> career of um federal funded
26:31
opportunities from both my careers in
26:33
telecom and in healthcare has there ever
26:35
just been a okay, we're going to stop.
26:37
this is this is not going to move
26:38
forward. There's been switches in
26:40
direction. There has been
26:42
>> uh changes in how the money would be
26:45
allocated or areas
26:47
>> of funding that would have a higher
26:51
focus on other but there was never we
26:54
are going to stop supporting. Right.
26:56
>> Right. And when we look at your earlier
26:58
question of where we published this,
27:00
where is it at? We last year the aha
27:04
came to be. We can't depend on the
27:07
traditional federal and the traditional
27:09
public health
27:12
um communication methodology. We have to
27:14
go back to good old private sector and
27:16
business development and marketing
27:19
foundations and really ensure that
27:22
people know that we're still here. we're
27:24
still doing the work and that we can
27:26
help define where the funding is, where
27:29
has transitioned to, and now who has
27:31
access to it.
27:32
>> So for me, rural health transformation
27:35
has really been a little bit of a chip
27:37
on the shoulder, right? And and the
27:39
reason I say that is we didn't
27:41
miraculously come up with $50 billion.
27:46
You got to follow the money of where the
27:48
dollars were rescended from
27:51
>> and how it's being repackaged
27:54
and why it's being positioned in rural.
27:57
>> Yes.
27:57
>> And so I'll leave those as kind of open
28:00
ponderings for the audience.
28:02
>> [clears throat]
28:02
>> But ultimately looking at and saying
28:05
that amount of money with a tagline of
28:07
transformation requires us to shed
28:12
prior precedences
28:15
>> and it requires us to redefine
28:18
what does healthc care access
28:22
but ultimately
28:24
economic development look like in rural
28:28
>> because your your populations will never
28:31
get healthier. fear in a community where
28:33
there's no employability, no
28:35
infrastructure,
28:37
and no understanding of a strategic
28:41
direction to help bolster all of those
28:44
economic gains.
28:46
>> So,
28:47
>> yeah. So then talk to me about what what
28:50
gap are you and the team filling as it
28:55
pertains to RHTP
28:57
and and taking these funds and
28:59
allocating them appropriately in
29:01
accordance to all the things that you
29:02
sort of mentioned like what what is that
29:04
gap?
29:05
>> So the first part is getting our rural
29:08
leaders up to speed in understanding the
29:11
actual vastness of the rural health
29:14
transformation program dollars.
29:16
>> Yeah. If you look at all of the
29:18
different
29:19
components, so if you look at all of the
29:22
different providers, stakeholders, and
29:25
who's at the table today, by and large,
29:29
those are organizations that are
29:32
institutions that are already part of
29:33
ecosystems that have defined what health
29:37
access looks like. Rural health
29:40
transformation needs the rural resident
29:44
that also wears multiple hats to be at
29:46
the table to say, "But this is how it
29:48
works in our community." And what we
29:50
really need is a community center for
29:52
the kids
29:55
>> that elders can also go to that we have
29:57
access to exercise and equipment and
30:00
then a convening space for all of this
30:02
education and anything else that you
30:04
want to account for within.
30:08
how do we collaborate with the
30:09
community? Or they may say, actually,
30:12
it's this, right? We have a senior aging
30:15
population that because all the kids
30:18
have moved out, they're they're loving
30:21
living in
30:23
>> their rural township,
30:25
but we don't have folks to check on
30:27
them,
30:28
>> right?
30:29
>> So, what does the bridging to senior
30:32
loneliness look like? Right? And it's
30:35
not a problem that can be solved outside
30:37
of the community. It is a problem that
30:39
has to be defined by the community in
30:42
collaboration
30:44
with stakeholders that really understand
30:48
efficiencies
30:50
and also lowcost economies to support
30:55
access of solutions.
30:57
>> Yeah. So, so here's like what I want to
31:00
understand because like sounds like the
31:02
money's there, the programs are there,
31:04
right? The need is obviously there.
31:06
What's the thing that actually prevents
31:09
rural communities from getting what they
31:12
deserve out of this? Like like what's
31:14
the real obstacle?
31:15
>> It's the governance model, right? So, if
31:18
you're not part of the committee, if
31:20
you're not at the table, if you don't
31:21
know how to apply, you're not at the
31:24
table.
31:26
It's still a very traditional if you
31:28
look at every state every state has
31:30
released some kind of application and if
31:33
you don't know how to do that then
31:35
you're already disadvantaged and you're
31:38
already not a part of
31:40
the submission. Now if if it's opened up
31:43
further now there's a number of states
31:44
that have done it very well to say
31:47
>> you need to ensure these categories of
31:50
stakeholders are within your plan and
31:54
that they have a budgeted substantiated
31:57
role to participate. Okay, great. We're
32:00
we're getting a little bit more
32:01
equitable here. But at the end of the
32:03
day, the context of this is is there
32:08
understanding in the rural community of
32:11
how this will apply to them and is there
32:14
trust that whoever is stewarding the
32:17
funding has their best intent and has
32:20
their best interests in mind. And so
32:23
when we look at the work that we're
32:24
doing, what's different is simply
32:26
stating here is the talking points to
32:29
our rural community leaders, letting
32:32
them understand
32:34
this is how it can be done broadly, but
32:38
now you're part of the conversation.
32:40
What does it mean to directly employ
32:43
deploy it within your communities?
32:45
>> Who would be interested in this? Right?
32:47
How do we train that person who's
32:49
interested with the tools, with the
32:52
skill sets, with the process, and how do
32:54
they communicate back? Because if we
32:57
have a plan to deploy workforce into
33:01
rural,
33:03
it's not going to work across all 50
33:05
states in the country and it will be
33:07
massively expensive to undertake. What
33:10
we need in rural is the opportunity to
33:13
be a part of this from an employability
33:15
perspective.
33:17
train those skill sets and tools because
33:20
then those tools within healthcare
33:22
become universal in other areas and
33:24
other industries. And then that
33:27
collaboration also gives purpose to
33:30
folks to look around and say if the goal
33:34
is rural health transformation
33:36
>> and senior loneliness is an issue,
33:39
maternal
33:41
prenatal education all the way through
33:43
to early childhood health and education
33:47
is an issue. If opioid use disorder is
33:49
still an issue and on down the line of
33:52
all of the clinical interventions,
33:54
right? The question becomes, what can I
33:57
do about it with these particular skill
33:59
sets?
34:01
And it's simple. It's showing up
34:05
having a relationship
34:07
so that the conversation is one where
34:11
we're collecting data across all of the
34:15
intersectionalities of the individual
34:17
>> and supporting the health data so that
34:20
we can solution set that with technology
34:24
from a teleaalth experience a
34:27
coordinated
34:29
mobile right mobile experience which
34:32
means that there is actually a
34:33
practitioner coming to the rural
34:36
environment not every day
34:38
>> but when they are there it's maximizing
34:40
their time and and the care impact to
34:43
the community and on and on and on. Now
34:46
these solutions are given coordinated
34:48
life [laughter]
34:50
in the rural environment and we have we
34:52
have very specific scheduling clarity
34:55
and also impact clarity because of the
34:57
data sets that are capturable.
35:00
So when you try to describe to someone
35:04
what TechServe does, like how do you
35:06
describe it today? Because to me, and
35:09
I'll just say like there's this
35:10
interconnectivity that you guys are
35:12
doing. There's
35:13
>> like it's this is not just an IT
35:15
company. This is way way way more.
35:20
>> But I'd love to hear how you describe
35:21
it. So we always give the visual of the
35:25
transformation framework so that people
35:27
can understand what that looks like. And
35:29
the way that I position it is that we
35:32
are an organization that helps the
35:35
community see the placement and their
35:39
own voice in systems transformation.
35:43
Because without that, we have a lot of
35:46
people creating solutions that no one
35:48
will ever use
35:50
because they're not clearly
35:52
understanding who the community is and
35:54
what day-to-day problems they have
35:56
today.
35:59
>> Before I forget, um, can you just
36:02
mention to people where they can find,
36:05
you know, more information about
36:06
Techerve? Like just give us a little
36:08
commercial and then we'll maybe do a
36:10
couple fun things and we'll wrap. Yeah,
36:12
sounds great. So, you can learn more
36:14
about all of our program solutions on
36:17
techserve.io, tcsv.io.
36:20
You can LinkedIn connect with me at
36:22
Sunonny Williams. uh we publish uh twice
36:25
a week and then we can also
36:29
the next I think
36:32
next major show that we have is the
36:34
Indiana Rural Health Association's
36:37
uh annual summit which will be in French
36:39
Lake Indiana on June 23rd and 24th.
36:42
>> Excellent. All right, let's do uh let's
36:45
maybe do a little lightning round.
36:47
>> Sure. You know, so maybe first thing
36:49
that comes to your ride ready.
36:50
>> Yeah.
36:51
>> All right. The the best piece of advice
36:54
your grandmother ever gave you. One
36:56
sentence.
36:58
>> Your health first, everything second.
37:01
>> It's funny. My parents tell me that all
37:03
the time.
37:03
>> Yes.
37:04
>> That's wild. Okay. Uh if uh if you
37:07
weren't doing this, what would you be
37:08
doing?
37:09
>> Man, I would still be doing this in some
37:11
way, shape, or form. Just a different
37:14
iteration of it. [laughter]
37:16
>> Okay. the moment in your career that
37:20
scared you the most?
37:24
>> When I was approached to acquire the
37:27
division that I built and launch it, I
37:29
thought it was the nicest way anyone had
37:31
ever been fired. [laughter]
37:33
But actually, it was a conversation that
37:36
was focused on getting a doing a
37:38
management buyout. And I was like, "Oh
37:40
man, I'd always wanted to be an
37:43
entrepreneur directly, but I didn't know
37:45
if that was the right timing, but here
37:47
we are."
37:48
>> Yeah. And maybe what's the most
37:51
underrated thing about Indiana?
37:55
>> The most underrated thing about Indiana?
38:02
>> That's a tough one. What do you think
38:04
the perception? [laughter]
38:06
>> I mean, I think of Indiana. I think of
38:08
like the Motor Speedway.
38:10
>> Yeah.
38:10
>> I think the Indy500.
38:14
>> I think from a from a cultural
38:16
perspective, I would say probably,
38:21
you know, this sounds like a really
38:23
nerdy answer, but um we've got some
38:27
really good government enterprise.
38:30
like
38:32
people aside, leadership aside, titles
38:35
aside, uh we have some really really
38:38
good
38:41
intra agency development and support
38:44
which I've not seen the likes of in
38:46
other states. So, it's really nerdy
38:48
because it's really process driven, but
38:50
uh we have this awesome thing called the
38:52
management performance hub and it um has
38:57
with every agency for comprehensive data
39:00
collection and sharing and so the
39:03
management performance hub literally can
39:05
access any data set in the state and
39:08
raise it up as a research project and so
39:10
we we have worked with MH a lot and it
39:13
is awesome because in itself it doesn't
39:16
function as a
39:18
technological
39:20
health doesn't function as a
39:22
technological information exchange, but
39:24
it's the legality of it, right? To be
39:26
able to access
39:28
>> um
39:28
>> as a custodian of data and yeah, again,
39:31
super nerdy, but [laughter]
39:33
that's what I would say is underrated
39:35
about Indiana. Good question though,
39:36
Michael. I have to think through a pop
39:38
culture reference.
39:40
>> Okay. And then and then maybe this is my
39:42
last question just because
39:43
>> maybe you as sort of this heat that
39:45
you're sitting in and you got to look
39:47
out maybe let's say you look out
39:50
>> five years from now
39:51
>> and looking at tech's work in rural
39:55
health in terms of how it actually moved
39:58
the needle like what would have changed
40:00
you know within those five years and
40:02
what does it look like for a family
40:04
that's sitting in rural Indiana kind of
40:07
community that's been you know waiting
40:10
for something to change.
40:12
>> Yeah. So five years out, what does rural
40:14
health look like with um texture of
40:17
support? So in five years I think that
40:21
what we will have very clearly done is
40:25
become the orchestration layer for all
40:28
community partners, school systems,
40:31
faith-based organizations and the
40:34
primary small chambers so that they
40:38
understand how their just existence
40:42
supports rural health. So they will be
40:44
very clear on those components. And then
40:46
the families themselves because of where
40:49
they work, where they play, where they
40:50
live also have an understanding of a
40:53
standard of expectation
40:56
>> that if those that come into the
40:58
community are not inherently
41:01
supporting rural health for rural
41:03
residents and they're supporting it for
41:05
profit or they're supporting it for
41:07
whatever other intent,
41:09
>> then rural has a voice and understands
41:13
how to push back.
41:15
And in the five-year time frame for the
41:17
rural markets that we are supporting
41:19
today, they will then have integrated
41:23
community-based access networks. not
41:26
clinically integrated access networks,
41:28
but community-based access networks
41:31
where then the clinicians, providers,
41:34
and practitioners go to those venues and
41:37
sources and support rather than having
41:40
to build out costly
41:42
um
41:44
physical integrations.
41:47
>> That's super interesting, Sunny. Thank
41:50
you. Genuinely, I think the work that
41:52
you're doing really really matters and
41:56
my belief is that people are going to
41:59
understand a lot more um about why uh
42:04
after listening to this conversation. So
42:05
if you're listening and if you're
42:07
watching this, this is exactly the kind
42:11
of work that I started, you know, the
42:13
reason why we started the show to shed
42:15
the light on. People that are doing hard
42:18
things in places that don't always get a
42:22
spotlight and that's what this show is
42:26
built for. So, if this episode somehow
42:29
serves you in some way um or hit you or
42:32
just kind of tugged on something and I
42:35
and I've been taking I've been taking
42:36
notes while we're having [laughter] this
42:38
conversation on my uh on my post-it note
42:40
here and you said one thing. You said
42:41
you can only be strategic on the intent,
42:44
not on the outcome. Like that really
42:45
resonated uh for me. So again, if this
42:48
episode resonated with you, please share
42:51
it. Um send it to someone who needs to
42:54
hear it. And if you haven't done so
42:55
already, like subscribe. Like what are
42:57
you waiting for? Uh and if there is a
42:59
topic that you want us to sort of
43:00
explore or leader you want to hear from,
43:02
make sure you drop us a note. We do
43:04
listen to it. So thank you for
43:05
listening. Keep building with purpose
43:07
and we'll see you next time on the
43:09
Advancing Healthcare Innovation Show.