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Fractional Fundraising: A Strategic Solution for Nonprofits with Cindy Wagman | Nonprofit411 Podcast · Nonprofit411 Podcast

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Welcome to the Nonprofit411 podcast, the podcast where we speak with nonprofit professionals and experts to uncover strategies, share insights, and tackle the challenges you face in fundraising and sustainability.
I'm Sarah Barton, your fundraising growth partner and the founder of Nonprofit411.
My mission is to help you develop tailored strategies and support you as you implement them, ensuring your nonprofit thrives.
Let's dive into today's episode and learn from the experiences and expertise of those who have been in your shoes.
Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of nonprofit 411.
I'm your host, Sarah Barton, and I'm very excited to be joined today by Cindy Wagman, founder of the fractional fundraising movement.
Welcome.
Hey, how are you? I'm good.
I'm good.
Cold outside, but I'm good.
Yeah, I'm ready for winter to move on.
Yeah Yeah, so I'd like to start with my favorite question What is your favorite hobby? Okay.
Well, I'm gonna make it winter themed because I feel like it's Just top of mind right now.
So I'll say skiing.
I've really, I grew up skiing and snowboarding.
I can do both quite well.
But I, we do it now with my kids.
We try to go a few times a year and it's so fun.
So, that is my way of coping with these cold, this winter has been particularly cold and snowy, so, it helps us not.
And where are you located? So I'm based in Toronto, Canada.
Which isn't actually as cold as most people out of Northern Canada think.
But this year it's been, it's like a winter that feels like one that we had when we were kids, where there was tons of snow and all the things.
So we're, this year, Is the first in memory that we've had to like, really shovel out all the things, so.
Yeah, that's fun.
Yeah, I, I thought that too.
We, we've had, I'm in West Virginia and we've had some snow.
I can't remember, I have pictures of it, so it was probably within the last nine years.
We had enough snow that my husband built an igloo with the kids in the yard.
Oh, fun! Yeah, but usually we're pretty, we're kind of temperate with just a few big storms, but I do feel like this winter has been a little bit extraordinary.
Like weather in general, it's like, I feel like we are living in one of those post apocalyptic movies where the Statue of Liberty gets buried under snow or things, something like that.
We'll see.
Yes.
Well, and you know, I feel like just having lived for a while, this is a winter where we're going to have another snowstorm in April or really late.
Okay, so my friend's birthday is April 4th, and she's 45 this year, and she says every year there's always at least one snowfall after her birthday.
Hands down.
So yeah, I don't know if we always get one here at that point in time, but I do think this year we're going to, it feels like a year where we're going to.
Yeah.
And we all need those memories.
I have a memory where when I was a kid it was, I was in high school and I remember in June, I grew up in Pennsylvania in June.
My, my father said, you Go out there and break up that pile of snow because it is summertime.
We should not have snow on the ground.
I know it was just a really long winter that year.
And what had happened was the piles were so high and they were so big.
Yeah, yeah.
But I was remember that because I remember thinking, he's right.
It's really summertime.
Yeah, yeah.
Well.
Since we've already started chatting, can you introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit more about what you do and where, how you got into the work that you're currently doing? Yeah, so my name is Cindy Wagman and I, I'll take you back to early on.
So I am one of the few fundraisers who, Made a decision to go into fundraising right off the bat.
Like I was in university and, and I discovered that that is a career that people do pursue.
And I was like, I want to do that.
So I actually chose to go into fundraising very intentionally and have been a fundraiser ever since.
That was.
I started working with small organizations 22 years ago, maybe.
And so, yeah, I, I was a fundraiser.
I was in house small organizations, large organizations, and in 2015, I had the opportunity to start consulting.
And so I started building a consulting business and I knew I wanted to work with small organizations.
And so I was Trying to figure out what that looked like.
Was I doing fundraising plans? Was I helping with fundraiser recruitment or coaching? And I really quickly learned that small organizations Don't need more information, they need hands, they need people to do the work.
And so I started playing around with different service models on how me and my growing team could help those organizations actually do the fundraising work.
And we created this unique combination of strategic oversight and day to day implementation.
Which grew and now we call it fractional fundraising.
And now I changed my model.
So instead of me building up a team of service providers, I actually teach fundraisers.
how to build their own fractional fundraising business.
So they get to benefit from all the awesome parts of being your own boss.
So that's what I do now.
I'm kind of expanding into non fundraisers, helping them also run fractional executive businesses.
Yeah, I think it's so true.
I also find that organizations really need the hands, you know, hands helping because they're short staffed and I am also working towards, you know, developing models that really work in that arena.
Because I feel like as the economy shifts.
We will have we already have greater need, and we're not seeing increased staff staffing is a really hard.
I always say staffing is a really hard addition because it is an ongoing.
expense for the organization.
I used to work at human resources too.
And so every time you add a staff member for a project or for anything else, you have to think, how will we continue to support that position? Yeah.
Yeah.
It's hard.
And like, I feel for nonprofits and it's a really hard time to be working in nonprofits.
And so People are leaving, which leaves a deficit in staffing and they're not being replaced as you said.
But the work needs to happen.
And also fractional is a very unique model in that it is designed specifically for organizations that have me, but you're almost like hiring up.
I'm not good with sports metaphor, but like.
You know how in certain sports you have like weight classes and you like I feel like you it allows Organizations to like punch above their weight so to speak if I'm getting that correct Where you can take that limited budget that you have and instead of just hiring someone part time or full time or what? What have you you at like a more inexperienced level with fractional what you are getting is someone at a sort of what we call C suite or director level experience.
So the biggest thing is it's not just someone who you can come in and say like, do this, do that, and delegate a bunch of stuff to.
Fractionals are there to be the strategic thought leader of their area of expertise.
So one of the biggest benefits I see for organizations who do that, who engage with a fractional executive Is that they don't have to worry.
You know, it's that emotional labor of like, is this being done? Do I need to like all the micromanaging that happens? So for executive directors, it actually is more than just in the work done.
It's taking the emotional labor off of their plate as well.
Which is a very unique.
Model to get help to get it really like combine that day to day.
Someone's doing the work and someone's thinking about him worrying about the work instead of the executive director.
Yeah.
Yes.
I think that's a great point.
I think to when you're bringing in someone with that level of experience, they've already.
Done trial and error on systems and processes.
They know what needs to go in place.
And we, you know, we can just very quickly go in and get those things done.
It's not like we have to guess what the process is.
And one of the things I talk about is fundraising being somewhat scientific, it's a scientific process, right? Yeah, I mean, that's the most fascinating thing that I get to see watching so many organizations.
Right now I work with about 50 members, fractional fundraisers in our network and And work with, I mean, like I just teach them the business side of things, but I hear about their, their work and organizations don't know how to fundraise small organizations, especially they don't know how to fundraise.
And so they often will bring people in and then be like, well, no, I don't like that.
Or I, I.
You know, I, I remember, I have this distinct memory of writing a fundraising appeal when I was, this is back in the day when I was starting out, so I was in my early 20s, and I had just gone to a conference, and I can't remember who I learned it from, maybe Mal Warwick, Warwick, whatever, anyways, something about like four page letters, Story based, all these things that there are, there's a lot of evidence and research behind best practice and I wrote this appeal and the chair of our fundraising committee Took a red pen.
I remember her because she, this is in the early ish days of the internet.
Not that early, but like she used to say dub dub dub instead of talking w w dot whatever.
She's dub dub dub.
And I think she was French Canadian.
Anyways, she took a red pen.
And my printed letter and she crossed out so much of it and said it needs to be no longer than a page and a half and we need stats in there.
Like it needs to be, like this is too, this is not, it's not enough of a business case.
And I was like, That's literally the wrong, like, you're wrong.
You're wrong.
That's everything, all the fundraisers who've been doing this forever will tell you that that's not how you write a letter and I was so young that I think I like tried to push back a little bit, but in the end It wasn't what it should have been and how much money we lost because of that I can't remember or like can't actually measure but that is one of the biggest challenges in smaller organizations is this like I don't like it therefore it's not good and this lack of knowledge that there is a knowledge base out there of good fundraising effect.
I don't even say good effective fundraising and ethical combined.
And for some reason, I see organizations always push back.
And then if they're pushing back, they're like, Well, show me where it says this is best practice.
Like, point me to the study.
And listen, if you're working with a fundraiser who's got 10 plus years of experience, they don't remember which specific study says this thing.
Like, this is what you get when you have someone with experience.
They know these things.
So, you, if you're a small organization listening, Trust the people who've been doing this for a while.
They're going to know what to do and also they're going to be very efficient.
So it's going to take them less time, which.
Doesn't mean it's less quality.
Sometimes, again, I feel like sometimes people are like, well, that would, that didn't take you very long.
Yeah, cause they've been doing it for a really long time.
So those are a couple areas that it messes with people's brains in terms of like, is this going to work for us? Yeah.
I think you bring up some really, really great points.
I, the number one question I always get is, well.
Are we talking to our, our people on our list a little too often? And you're like, no, no guarantee.
I will put money on it that you are not.
Yeah.
It's funny.
This is kind of random, but it kind of makes me think of it years ago on Oprah.
They had a lady on who was like, she's like 75 or 80 percent of women where the wrong bra size.
And so like, I always just go up a bra size now because I'm like, yeah, probably, you know, right.
But it's kind of that same idea that like, we make assumptions and then like a lot of people do it.
And so we just go with that assumption, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, but yeah, you have to fight that battle all the time, you know, no matter what you say.
I always tell them like, how much email are you getting in a week, you know, and if you're not even among the emails, they're not remembering you on that day.
Not at all.
Yeah, I get emails from The Gap.
I get emails from TheGap.
com and ca, so I think I get like four a day.
Yeah.
Listen, people send them because it works, and it works for charities and businesses.
But it, it is uncom I mean, people are uncomfortable with fundraising, generally speaking.
And so I see this also when we talk about things like donor fatigue, which usually is, actually has nothing to do with the donor.
It's the person who's, quote unquote, asking, feels like they've asked too much, and therefore, they project this feeling onto the donor.
The donor's, they're fatigued.
They've heard from us enough.
Like, no, usually it just means you're actually not communicating or building the relationship enough.
To me, that leads to donors who don't, don't want to hear from you.
But if you communicate regularly and engage donors and all of that, then they want to get your email and they want to hear from you and they want to give.
And so, yeah, usually in my experience, it's really about I call it reluctance to the fundraise that people are just like.
I don't want to send another email.
We've sent too many.
I don't want to reach out.
We've reached out too much.
So yeah, it's more about the person asking.
You said something there that was really interesting.
Donor fatigue is not the same as donor disengagement, right? Donor disengagement.
It means that you're not having the right conversation with them.
Right.
But it doesn't necessarily mean they're tired of hearing from you.
The other thing is globalization.
I don't know if you've experienced this.
I've definitely experienced it in my work is that if one person says something, we apply it to everybody in our donor base.
Yes, this is so yes, and this is a negativity bias.
So, I also love neuroscience and heuristics.
So, I actually have studied this.
Some of the patterns our brains make in terms of interpreting information.
And one of them is called negativity bias, which is we will over emphasize negative feedback and under emphasized positive feedback.
And so, like, one to nine.
So, like, one negative comment or feedback needs to be balanced by about nine positive ones.
Okay, so, yes, one person complains about, Oh, I never sign up for these emails, or I don't, stop messaging me.
That gets so inflated in our perception.
And it doesn't matter if those same emails raised money and brought in lots of first time donors or renewed donor, like all the metrics can be there, but that one negative one really, really sticks out for us.
So that is a really hard battle.
Because we want.
We want to be liked and we want people to like what we do and all of that so and it's also a survival mechanism but generally people are much again we overemphasize the negative.
We would much rather not suffer than like have something really good.
Yeah, I, I think, so one of the strategies that I recommend is look at your metrics.
When we're looking at the unsubscribed metric, compare it to your clicked and opened and engaged numbers.
Right? Yeah.
And listen, you're not for everyone.
I say this as well, cause I coach a lot of consultants and I get unsubscribes in my email list for my business.
That's okay.
It probably means they were not ever going to engage with me.
Right? If someone's unsubscribing because you offer them an opportunity to do good in the world, they're not your people.
Let it go.
But I call it bless and release.
Like just it's cool.
There's other people out there.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm a huge fan of Mel Robbins.
Let them right.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, I want to give a shout out to you.
You recently held the first fractional fundraiser summits.
It was amazing.
Thank you.
You want to share a little bit about it with our listeners? Yeah.
So, I've been doing this work, we've been calling it fractional fundraising since about 2022.
But I've been doing it longer than that, really since 2017.
And, I have been seeing and this idea of fractional executives exist in the for profit space and I have been watching what's been going on in the non profit sector, which is, it's really taking off.
One, because I think it's a particularly useful model, service model for organizations who are struggling with things that are not unique to our sector, but really, underscored in our sector that we talked about in terms of staffing and not replacing people.
Anyways, so there's this really interesting time right now where fractional executives is growing and There, there are lots of people curious about it and not a lot of resources for them.
So I said, I will, I will create that resource.
So I created it, hosted the fractional shift summit this past January.
And it was for people who were current or.
We were looking at people who want to be a fractional executive consultants in the nonprofit sector.
And so we had topics like what even is fractional executives? And I called the wild west of fractional right now because there's still a lot of loosey goosey people like terms thrown around and understanding.
And then it was also really practical, like sales calls and and how to find your first.
12 month client in like 12 month retainer client in 90 days.
So it was for people who were starting out on their consulting journey.
And then we also had sessions for people who were more established around things like managing your, like growing the team and you know, the financial strategy for your business and all that.
So.
Yeah.
I loved it.
It was really fun.
It was, it was so much fun.
There were so many experts and I thought the networking for or for individuals who were doing fractional work was phenomenal.
So shout out to you for all of that.
Thank you.
And yeah, I would say the community really.
I don't know what it is about the consulting community and the nonprofit sector, if it's sort of a global statement or just the community that I've found myself in, but there's so much uplifting of everyone and sharing and openness.
I mean, talking about pricing and You know, how to navigate this and that, and all the different things that people experience, there's such openness.
Which wasn't really the case when I started out consulting, I felt like there were a couple people who were really sharing.
But I feel very lucky to be part of, and maybe partly curate this community where we have very open conversations, and we, Talk about all the things, the ups and the downs, and it's not all pretty, but yeah, there's a lot of transparency there, which is great.
Yeah, I have found that too.
And I know as a business owner, so this is my second time doing consulting.
I did it in 2012 to 2016.
So for four years I did it.
And this time I feel like there's so much more community for me as a solopreneur and as a consultant.
I'm in West Virginia.
It's a very rural state.
There aren't a lot of consultants in the state for nonprofits.
There are some, but you know, it's a really small community.
And I feel like the last three or four years has really opened up this community and provided so many opportunities to network.
And I have no problem being transparent with anyone that I talk with because it's, it's my support team.
Right.
And you don't know where you're going to find your Your supporters.
Exactly.
I mean, it's so funny.
I feel like this is one thing that really shifted during COVID actually, and really coming out of COVID is I felt before that my network was really Canadian and then during COVID I met people online who I was like, Oh, you're doing cool work.
And I guess they were not really on my radar before.
And literally, like, I hopped on a plane and flew to California to meet two of them in person for the first time in, I think, 2022 or 2023? Anyway, one of those years.
I think 2022.
And Just like people I've never met in person.
Anyways, we met, we had our own little mastermind retreat and we, you know, worked with each other on our businesses for three days and like Yucca Valley near Joshua tree.
And it was so great, but I really feel like those people were not even on my radar pre COVID.
So things shifted and yes, this glow global or.
But it is, it's truly global.
Community of consultants is really, really power, like, really powerful.
It makes you feel like you have colleagues when it typically can be a very Experience insulting.
Yes.
Yes.
And that's what I love about it.
It does.
It makes you feel like you have colleagues.
And so that's great.
So let's talk about the other side of that real quick.
For our listeners who might be interested in finding fractional fundraisers.
How do you go about doing that? Yeah.
So, I mean, I'm going to say reach out to me.
We actually have a directory of fractional fundraisers who've been through our program or in our community.
At fractionalfundraising.
co slash fractional fundraiser, I think, or fractional fundraising, but you can just go to fractionalfundraising.
co and And we directory.
So you can either reach out to people directly and book appointments with them, like a discovery call, or I actually have a form you can fill out fractional fundraising.
co slash inquiry, and I will match make you with someone who I think is a good fit to help you with fundraising.
Now.
I'm just a matchmaker.
I it's like just a little thing I do.
So I don't you don't contract with me at all.
There's no kickback to me or you don't pay me for the match.
It's truly just part of the service I provide to our community.
So, I try and match organizations to the person I think is best for them.
There's no obligation and at that point, it's a exploratory.
So that's the first place I would go.
This.
Second part, which actually really is the first part, is like, is this right for me? Right? We should talk about like, how do I know I need a fractional versus just like other options.
So for organizations, you need to have some budget to staff a fundraising position.
Okay? If you are like, oh, we have like 5, 000 for the year.
That is not going to get you a fractional anything.
So I usually say like a comfortable living wage for someone with like up to three years experience, right? You're looking at that fundraising coordinator type position is what you have budget for and maybe that's what you think you all that you can hire.
And you want, again, you want to fill that position.
Usually it's the only fundraising position in the organization, the only paid fundraising position.
It can be that you have like some budget to hire someone and you maybe have.
You actually have a fundraising coordinator and funding administrator, that's fine too.
So you, you need fundraising help, you have some budget to hire, but not enough for a director position.
And you want someone who can bring the strategy and the implementation.
So you probably don't have fundraising expertise as an executive director.
Or if you do, you're just feeling really overwhelmed with all the other things that you're doing and you don't want to think about stress about fundraising.
And so that I would say is the sweet spot in terms of I'm ready to hire where I have budget.
I don't want to hire someone junior who I have to supervise and, you know, nitpick all their work and make sure they're learning all the things.
I don't want to deal with that.
I don't have enough for a director, but you want a bit of both of those, those things.
So, someone who's gonna, so, whereas other consultants might come in and tell you what to do You want someone who's going to come in, set the direction, and do the work, then a fractional is right for you and then go about finding them and I will say, like, outside of our network, it is, as I said before, a little bit of the Wild West, so, I, I work with people who charge monthly retainers.
It's a flat fee.
There's very little variability, which means you know exactly how much you're paying every month.
They are consultants, so they're not a staff person.
You're not withholding taxes and remittances and all that kind of stuff.
They bring their own computers and all the things.
Check like make sure you check those assumptions because even if I'm saying it doesn't mean everyone if you're talking Talking to someone else at work, I don't want to assume that they have the exact same understanding, even though I'm trying to get us all on the same page.
There's a, there's a lot of people out there.
So make sure you have clear expectations.
The fractional fundraisers that I work with, they always start with a fundraising plan, which really acts as a scope of work.
And that becomes the backbone of your expectations of that person.
So it's almost impossible to ask a front fundraiser to do a scope of work without doing some of the work within the organization.
So it's usually the first deliverable.
Yeah, that's great.
I think that's such great advice and everything that I would recommend to you because like, you know, those are, those are the key pieces.
And I think that strategy as the starting piece is the most important because as a consultant coming in, we don't know what you've done, where you are and where you're starting from.
And so it takes a little bit of time to assess that and get up and running.
Yeah.
I mean, you could, you could do that as a standalone in terms of scope of work, but No one's going to give you, which will cost you like, I don't know, anywhere from 000 probably.
But that really becomes the, like, I can tell you again, if you're a small organization and you've tried to do your own fundraising plan, you're probably off.
It's probably not great.
So again, with the reluctance to fundraise and just the fact that most people don't actually have professional fundraising experience, it really, having a plan for any organization is really important to get fist and clear on the work so that you can really optimize the resources you have.
That's great advice.
So Cindy, where can our listeners find you? Yeah.
So I would say like connect with me personally.
LinkedIn is the best place.
Cindy Wagman.
You will find me there.
If you are interested in becoming a fractional fundraiser or fractional executive also fractional fundraising.
com.
Co slash waitlist to hear when we launch our academy, which is usually twice a year.
Although I always reserve the right to change that.
And then the fractional shift summit will happen again in 2026.
So that is nonprofitfractionals.
com and you can join the waitlist for that.
It is a free summit to attend live.
And I'm just like, right now I'm like, how can I top this past year's speakers? So, that's my goal for next year is to make it even better.
Yes.
That's so awesome.
And what is one piece of advice you believe every nonprofit should have? Okay.
I'm going to.
Like, pay people more, honestly, like, I know it's hard, I just, this is top of mind today because this morning I sent an email out about this exact topic where I see people think of, I mean, people are becoming consultants because we underpay as a sector, right? There is a bigger conversation here around how we treat people and all of that.
But I can, again 90 percent guarantee that you're underpaying people.
And some consultants are getting, you know, having these conversations with organizations like, well, you charge too much and it's like, just cause you undervalue and underpay your staff doesn't mean a consultant is charging.
It's not about a rush to the bottom.
So, that is like, your people, whether they're in house or consultants, are your most important asset as an organization.
And right now our sector, and I know, The broader environment in which we're all operating feels very unsteady right now.
But the only way you're going to get through that is if you have people who are working really hard and we can't ask them to do that without treating them well and paying them well.
Yeah, yeah, that's great advice.
And I know with the change in the economy and the increase in, you know, cost, a lot of people can't persist at the lowest rates that sometimes we have chosen to pay within the sector.
And so that's, that's great advice.
It is hard advice, but I think that it will build our sector into a much stronger sector and we are so impactful in our communities.
You know, nonprofits are what make many of our communities healthy and vibrant and thriving.
And so it's super, super important.
I encourage people to like, you know, educate the businesses in your community about the need for your nonprofit because yeah, they wouldn't, they couldn't imagine paying so little for amazing value that you give back.
And our work is so important.
We need the best people doing it and not just the people who can afford to work for less.
So, and on that sort of other side of that same coin is do not stop asking for money when things we saw this with COVID and I see this now with organizations who were the world when, when the world feels unsteady or.
uncertain or scary.
Our reluctance to fundraise means we clam up.
We stop asking.
We think, oh no, people are, are going to be suffering economically.
They're not going to be able to give.
That's not your decision to make.
And right now organizations really need funding, and honestly, people need a productive outlet to feel like they have some control, some way to shape the society that they want to be in.
I see a lot of people who are doing like, activist donate giving or donating where they're like, this feels like something they can control and they can have an impact around organizations that they love and feel like those organizations are at risk.
This is what they can do.
So please don't stop asking.
Please, please.
Now is the time to engage your community.
like mobilize people and make sure that the work is getting done by treating your people well too.
Love that.
That's definitely going to be what we stop on.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Thanks for having me.
Yes.
I'm so excited for our listeners to hear this and to our listeners.
Thank you for tuning in this week.
I look forward to seeing you again next week.
That's a wrap for today's episode of Nonprofit411.
I hope our discussion with nonprofit professionals and experts gave you actionable ideas to take your fundraising efforts to the next level.
At Nonprofit411, I partner with leaders like you to develop strategies and guide you through implementation.
Visit nonprofit411.
org to learn more and let's take the first step together.
See you next time.
Bye.