Latest / The Wilmac Wire / Captain Jack Varnado | Running a PSAP, APCO Leadership, & the Future of 911

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Captain Jack Varnado | Running a PSAP, APCO Leadership, & the Future of 911 · The Wilmac Wire

• Emily Miller: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Welcome back to the Will MacGuire. Thank you for tuning in. We have a really great episode for you today, a really powerful episode. And this one hits close to home for us given how much time we've spent lately talking about public safety technology and the people behind it. Today's guest is Captain Jack Varnedow. Just for a little bit of context and a sneak peek, here's a bit about who he is. All right, hello and welcome to the WillMac Wire. We're really excited to be here today with a public safety leader. ⁓ We're gonna get started and I'll get started with that intro right now. So coming in as a public safety veteran with nearly 40 years in the field, starting as a volunteer firefighter and EMT in 1986, he worked his way up from line level dispatcher all the way to chief of communications at East Baton Rouge Parish, EMS in 911. He has nearly 40 years of experience in the public safety and emergency communications field. He currently serves as the captain and 911 director at the Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office. And he's also currently the president of APCO International, which is the largest public safety communications organization in the world. Like I said, today's episode was powerful because it's coming from someone boots on the ground, who's experienced a lot of the He's now the captain and 911 director at the Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office. He oversees 911 for 21 public safety agencies and with over 325 calls every single day. He's currently leading the rollout of Louisiana's first true next generation 911 system. He's testified before the US House of Representatives in December of 2025, so just a few months ago on the future of emergency communications. He's currently serving as the president of APCO International, which is the largest public safety communications organization in the world. Welcome to the Will MacWire, Captain Jack Varnado. Thanks for joining us. ⁓ yeah. Very impressive list of intros. Every time I run through that, I'm like, man, there's a lot of really impressive bullets on here. So Jack, we're excited for you to join us virtually coming out of the APCO International office in DC today. How's that trip been? of quite a few tragedies and experienced those very heavily publicized tragedies in his role. We talk a lot about Jack's career journey and how four decades in the field have shaped the way he leads today. He shares some of those stories that I just mentioned in this episode that will genuinely stop you in your tracks. He talks about his experience with Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Ida. He even talks about one, the experience he witnessed that Jack Varnado: Thanks for having me. Glad to be here. It was very, very good. ⁓ Liking the cooler weather up here too, so. Emily Miller: showed him he wanted to be in the public safety communications field, along with his literal first day as a dispatcher and that experience, like I said, powerful. Beyond Jack's career experience, we also take a deep dive into workforce and staffing challenges inside 911 centers and what's being done to address them. We hit on that push towards next generation 911. Yeah, I know you're. Yeah, I was going to say how warm is it down in Louisiana right now? Oh man, oh we just hit 50. Jack Varnado: It's in the 80s during the day, so... Steve McDonnell: ⁓ we're breaking. I said we're getting close to 50 for the first time since November today. Jack Varnado: Yeah. Right. Emily Miller: Yeah, good times. All right, awesome. Okay, well, Jack, we like to start with a segment called This or That. I'm gonna post three quick questions to you, post two options, very fun, very lighthearted, meant for our audience to get to know you better. So we'll start with that. So first one, Baton Rouge or New Orleans? and what that transition actually looks like on the ground that Jack is going through. And of course we hit on the AI conversation, where it fits into emergency communications and how APCO is approaching it both thoughtfully and responsibly. Steve and I are proud to be a part of that AI conversation with APCO since we're in that standards working group that I've mentioned a few episodes ago. But we were just so happy to have Jack on the podcast. was a truly inspirational conversation. I figured though. Makes sense. So Baton Rouge, you're closer to Baton Rouge, right? So like not that far. And then New Orleans distance. Okay. Okay. Let me ask, are you originally from Louisiana? Okay. Born and raised. Love that. Okay. Easy one to start off. We're going to get harder. I'm just kidding. ⁓ Next one, a first responder or a dispatcher. Jack Varnado: I'm sorry. Yes, yes. ⁓ It's about an hour away. I am, yes. Emily Miller: and we can't thank him enough for taking time out of his busy schedule to join us on the Will MacWire. You're gonna enjoy this one. So I'll turn it over to the interview with Captain Jack Varnado. Jack Varnado: Yeah. Wow. I think I'm going to have to go with the dispatcher. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so much more fun to me. I mean, it's fun in the field. Don't get me wrong. Emily Miller: Taking you back on that one. Yeah, having those conversations on the phone. And those are two. Jack Varnado: But being in that dispatch position, you really get to be at the heart of not just one call that you're assigned to, but you get to be a part of every call just about that's happening in the agency. Emily Miller: Yeah, I can imagine there's ⁓ a pretty significant team aspect to being in a 911 center. Like you got all those people near you, all of them answering calls, all serving that greater purpose. So that's gotta be pretty powerful. Wonderful. All right. ⁓ Last one. Speaking at an APCO conference or testifying in Congress. Jack Varnado: Yes. think speaking at an APCO conference ⁓ with my people. ⁓ I love testifying in front of Congress and the FCC and those kinds of things. They're really fun and intense, but being around our people ⁓ to me is the best. Emily Miller: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And you just spoke at the APCO Workforce and Wellness Summit a few weeks ago, right? How did that go? Jack Varnado: Yes. Yep. ⁓ it was great. We had an excellent turnout. We had some great sessions about ⁓ mental health, ⁓ help that's out there that's available for our people. But it really talked about some of the challenges that we've had over the last few years with staffing. But now we're getting where we're. Emily Miller: Mm-hmm. Jack Varnado: We're actually implementing some of the things that we've learned over the last few years, especially during and right after COVID, ⁓ that really challenged our workforce. Now we're really getting back on our feet there. And then the mental health is there's more resources coming for our telecommunicators and those in the front line of our ECCs. ⁓ Emily Miller: ⁓ yeah. Moving and grooving. Yeah, that's wonderful. I was just working on this the other day, but we're getting situated for attending the APCO 2026 conference. And I was talking to someone at APCO about the wellness zone that you guys have created and how wonderful that is. you have puppies, like massages, just ways to kind of step away and kind of escape that really tough position that public safety people tend to be in pretty often. So, that's wonderful. Jack Varnado: Yeah, that was the best part of the wellness and workforce was the dogs, the puppies. Man, yeah, we had people laying down in the hallway, cuddling with the dogs and kneeling down, people that can't even kneel down like me and get back up without help. We were kneeling down to talk to puppies and it was awesome. It was awesome. Emily Miller: Yeah, the puppies. ⁓ I love it. That's awesome. ⁓ that's fun. Steve McDonnell: I have two quick questions, Jack, before we move on to your career. I'm curious on how the wellness programs work. If it's a large enough PSAP, will they have their own internally? ⁓ Obviously, we're big into the wellness with what we're trying to do. So it's very important. And the more interviews we have, the more we realize how intense the phone conversations can be and how important it is for them to be able to step away from these certain situations. Is that different in each PSAP? How does that work? Jack Varnado: It is different in each ECC. What we do is we have our peer-to-peer type of counseling ⁓ in our critical incident stress teams, CSM teams, and so forth. ⁓ larger centers are going to have that available to them. ⁓ in a more quick manner, but especially that peer to peer where it is actually telecommunicators that are helping. In other centers, even the size of mine, it may be somebody who's from ⁓ operations in the sheriff's office or even the fire department who can come in and help us. And then we can get the resources if it's professionals that are needed, the counselors, psychologists, and so forth to move forward there. Emily Miller: Yeah, interesting. Jack Varnado: So we're really growing that. EMDRIA, the project with Nina and ⁓ EMDRIA and ⁓ Jim Marshall, they really have stepped up and created a much different approach now to help out with counseling. Steve McDonnell: All right, great. And then the next question out of my pure curiosity, because I don't know if we'll hit on it, was your, I obviously piqued my attention before we even hopped on, but testifying in front of the Congress, can you give us a idea of how it was? It sounded like you had a good time doing it. Jack Varnado: I had a great time. I actually was ⁓ invited by the subcommittee ⁓ chairman of that subcommittee, ⁓ Congressman Richard Hudson out of North Carolina, and then a representative that I've actually worked with in Louisiana. ⁓ Troy Carter, ⁓ his office contacted me when they found out I was being invited to come speak as part of APCO. And I've worked with him in our state legislature before. And so it was great to get up here and visit with them. The whole day before I spent right here in this office with our government relations staff, ⁓ prepping for the testimony because they pepper you with some pretty good questions. Emily Miller: can imagine. Jack Varnado: And they're really asking some in-depth questions and they want to hear from us ⁓ in the industry so much more so than the lobbyists ⁓ that are out there. And Chairman Hudson and Congressman Carter were just amazing. And it meant a lot to me to have Congressman Carter actually... ⁓ Steve McDonnell: You're local, Jack Varnado: locally, but he actually got to introduce me and that meant a lot to me of that. So yeah, it was a lot of fun, but it is very intense because they want to hear from the practitioners and like I told you in an earlier call that, hey, they put their pants on just like I do, right? ⁓ They put them on one leg at a time and they want to hear from us because we're the ones being impacted by these decisions that they make. ⁓ Emily Miller: Yeah. Jack Varnado: It's an awesome experience. My wife actually texted me ⁓ afterwards and she took a picture of me on TV. And I was like, stop. Yes. Steve McDonnell: That was good as well. Emily Miller: ⁓ that's cool. You're famous. ⁓ That is so cool. Steve McDonnell: How long did it go for? Jack Varnado: It actually went for about an hour and a half. ⁓ There was four of us on the panel that day and ⁓ really, really interesting subjects. I mean, we're talking about Kerry's law, which is not having to dial nine to get out of these fault connections. ⁓ Talking about the different... ⁓ Emily Miller: Mm. Steve McDonnell: Wow. Emily Miller: Mm-hmm. Jack Varnado: Notifications during events like the flooding in Texas at the girls camp. ⁓ And then talking about next generation 911 funding and ⁓ satellite back hauls for backing up our 911 centers as we move more to SIP ⁓ communications rather than the analog technologies that we're on now. Steve McDonnell: Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. We've been hearing a lot about, I don't know why, but Kerry's law lately. It obviously makes a ton of sense. Is there actual pushback from certain government agencies or? Emily Miller: Very cool. Yeah. Jack Varnado: not from government agencies, it's getting vendors and localities to be able to program their telephone systems for this. I mean, you're talking about hotels, businesses. Steve McDonnell: Okay. Emily Miller: Mm. Jack Varnado: I mean, Utah and just Louisiana, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, some of the large high rise buildings that they have a single phone system for all of these different offices that are in their building. Well, that's got to get down to the cubicle of where that is in the building. then that makes sure nobody has to dial nine to get out for a 911 call. So there's not real pushback. It's just more of, Hey, you've got to abide by this and get it done. Steve McDonnell: Yeah, logistics. All right, sorry. Emily Miller: Right. Very interesting. No, no, no. Those are good tangents to go off of. All right. Jack, going to start with your career journey like Steve mentioned. So obviously, like we called out in the intro, 40 plus years in public safety. Can you walk us through kind of what that trajectory has been, how you got into it, and then what it's been like balancing leadership of a 911 center and leadership of an organization like ABCO? Jack Varnado: Yeah. Sure. ⁓ I got involved at an early age. I wanted to be a police officer. I wanted to go to college and I started off in college being a criminal justice major. ⁓ I dropped out of college after about two and a half years and decided I wanted to go ahead and start practicing. And that was after an accident in my community. ⁓ a lady that I went to church with and her husband were killed in a car crash. I was one of the first people there and I got to the accident and I couldn't do anything. I didn't know what to do. I was 20 years old. I had no idea what to do. And I said, you know what? I'm never gonna have this happen again. So I started being a volunteer firefighter in my community, ⁓ moved up in there to get my EMT. ⁓ And I have... ⁓ moved up in every position ⁓ to go into Baton Rouge and if you wanted to go into Paramedic, you had to go to ⁓ East Baton Rouge EMS. Well, my first day was Christmas Eve, 1989, and it was like really cold and a steam pipe burst in the ⁓ Exxon refinery and it burst a gas line, which then a truck drove through and blew up and blew up the entire Exxon refinery. And that was my first day. Supervisor my supervisor catches me in the hallway as we're leaving that day and she said are you gonna come back tomorrow and I said Absolutely, I that I can honestly say and I've told this story many many times that is the day that I fell in love with communications and I I've done field work in law enforcement fire EMS since then but my heart is always with communications because I know what it means to really be involved in that and making that the best it can be because our first responders out in the field depend on that for their safety, for the safety of the citizens, for the response of every emergency call that is coming in goes through communications. And I want to see it be the best we can make it at every level, whether it's at my local agency or now. being the president of ABCO International and trying to make this industry better and I want to see it better every day and I want to see us making it better. And I've tried to do that and I've worked with some amazing people, whether it's people in the public sector, private industry, Congress, FCC, I've worked with a lot of people to do that. And I just love this, that we're seeing a transformation of our industry now. ⁓ And it's a career. I was telling someone here not long ago that this is such a worthy career. And I'm sorry that we don't have more people stay in this career, but it's a tough career to make it long lasting unless you get into management. ⁓ Steve McDonnell: Yeah, that's a wild first day on the job. Emily Miller: Yeah. Jack Varnado: Yes, it was crazy. But that's another one of those situations where I said, you know, I couldn't do anything. I could answer the phone and say, what do I need to do? But I didn't know what to tell them. And I said, I'm never going to do that again. And I wanted to be the best I could be. And I had some great trainers and supervisors and leaders in my life that I've been able to, and career that I've been able to try to do that same thing with people. Emily Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Steve McDonnell: So you've literally worked across a ton of the different disciplines and clearly communications is where your heart's at. ⁓ How was working being a volunteer fire, being in EMS, doing some patrol work, ⁓ how was that compared to being in the communication center? Is it just a different field because you're out in the field or? Jack Varnado: It is. Yeah, it's different because you're actually, you have to communicate face to face with people and not over the phone. ⁓ I tell dispatchers and call takers this all the time that you know the worst thing that can really happen to us in communications is we have to eat a cold burger or the room gets hot or cold. For our first responder ⁓ disciplines in the field, they cannot go home to their families. And so I try to take that idea that I know what's happening in the field and... what we do in communications affects them. many times what I'm trying to do whenever I'm in the field is trying to learn what can we do differently or more efficiently ⁓ to help those in the field when they are on a call, whatever that call is, ⁓ what can we do to make their jobs safer or more efficient? ⁓ without burdening the dispatch centers down with some of the things that sometimes we get burdened with, ⁓ can they do from the field or can AI help us? Can new technology help us in a particular way? Emily Miller: Yeah, that's powerful. ⁓ Let me ask Jack, so you obviously moved from frontline roles into leadership. Like what changed most about how you approached your day to day with that? Jack Varnado: think for me what changed most was that I didn't... Not real sure how to say this, but, that my role didn't change. Well, my role changed a lot. My responsibility didn't because I now had the responsibility of the entire team, whether it was a shift or, go from a trainer. And I was responsible for that trainee and myself to a shift to the entire organization at that point. ⁓ I guess my leadership style was always, was not to be overbearing or ⁓ micromanaging, but to be a part of that team, not to just jump out there and say, I'm in charge, I'm in charge. ⁓ Look, many times I walk in the dispatch center today and I'm asking those ladies and guys on that floor, I'm asking them, hey, tell me what you see, tell me what you need, and then I'll go out and make it happen. But I don't try to pretend that I know or have all the answers. Those people are pretty resourceful and go getters on that dispatch floor. And most of the centers that I've been in, probably the most intense individuals because they're gonna they're gonna get out there and get the information and do whatever they can to support that particular call or that particular event going on. Emily Miller: Yeah, so it sounds like the people are kind of a big motivation for you, that safety of the community. Am I correct in assuming that, that what keeps you continually motivated to show up every day? People, yeah. Jack Varnado: Yes. Yes, yes, it's the people, whether it's the victims or the callers or my own people that work in the agency with me. And I try not to say people work for me. ⁓ They work with me and I work with them and it's all about the people. The technology, we've had times where the technology has totally failed, but those people in that dispatch center, in that agency, fire police, EMS, they didn't fail. The equipment we had, Learned from things and I've been involved in some pretty horrific events Hurricane Katrina Hurricane Ida the the different things out there and and Our people never quit Sometimes the technology does we get it back working and we continue doing what we do Steve McDonnell: What you brought it up. I wasn't sure if we were going to bring it up or not, or if we had planned to. But what were you? What was your role during Katrina? What were you doing at that time? Jack Varnado: I was the deputy director for St. Tammany Parish 911, ⁓ which is on the North Shore of New Orleans. And so we were responsible for all of the equipment, ⁓ the 911 equipment ⁓ in that. And ⁓ we experienced an outage for multiple days where people could not call 911. There was no way to do it because of the infrastructure that was down. And that is the worst feeling of knowing that people do not have access to that critical number that they rely on in our communities. And that's where I believe, and we'll get into this later with the technology of NextGen 911 and the resiliency and so forth of NextGen. Steve McDonnell: must have been quite the experience, Katrina. Jack Varnado: It was wild, but I'll tell you, I'll tell you several years ago, ⁓ was the captain at, at Livingston and the 911 director there when hurricane Ida came. And, that one was even more intense for me personally, because we, actually experienced the, the hurricane eye coming over my house. I can't get to my wife and child and I'm at the courthouse and we experienced the eye about 10 minutes later and it was, it was intense. And, but my dispatchers and those ladies and gentlemen on that floor. And I say ladies because most of them are female in our dispatch center and they are the best. They're the best of the best. And I can't praise them enough in what they do and their dedication to protecting our community. Emily Miller: Very cool. Steve McDonnell: Yeah, that's great. How long did it take to rebuild everything? Jack Varnado: For Katrina, it was about two weeks that we were down before they could get the system back up and working and 911 calls coming in. Steve McDonnell: But yeah, that's a while. Jack Varnado: Yeah. Emily Miller: Yeah, that's crazy. All right, Jack, thanks for sharing a lot about your kind of experience and your journey. Obviously a lot of really life-changing moments that you've experienced in your role. I want to dig a little bit more into your role at APCO International now. So as president, how would you describe APCO's role in the public safety ecosystem? Jack Varnado: Sure. I think APCO's role is probably, would say we are the leader, the organization that leads. in a voice in Washington DC and around the country. ⁓ We're even working with other countries because we're not just APCO USA, we're APCO International. And we try to bring people to our table to be able to ⁓ solve problems, ⁓ work on the future of our... Steve McDonnell: National. Jack Varnado: communications because we're not just 911. We are emergency communications and it's from the very first notification of that event all the way through because our history really goes back to radio and that's where APCO began was as a radio organization and then we moved into the 911. as that system was developed in the country. ⁓ We've done some work. ⁓ in multiple countries. ⁓ We've done work in Saudi Arabia. We've done work in Dubai. ⁓ We've done work in South America, ⁓ Canada. We have a sister organization that started with us, British APCO. I'll be going there next month ⁓ to represent ⁓ APCO International with them. And then we have sister organizations like the National Sheriffs Association, Major County Association, International Chiefs of Police, International Fire Chiefs, all of these groups and we work together, we're a coalition that comes in and works together to be a voice for our regulatory bodies like the FCC and the governmental bodies at the national level here with the Congress, NTIA, other... organizations here to set policy or fund and build systems out there. Steve McDonnell: Yeah, I was wondering about the international because we do, and we go to the APCO events up in Canada annually. We have an office in Toronto, so we're familiar with that. But I was wondering if you went elsewhere besides just US, Canada, and sounds like literally all over the place. Emily Miller: Mm-hmm. Jack Varnado: Yes, yes, we do. And we try to work with those organizations like Saudi Arabia. We're doing ⁓ in our training arm with our institute. ⁓ Steve McDonnell: That's great. Jack Varnado: the Abco Institute, we're doing some training ⁓ with Saudi Arabia. ⁓ We're developing specific training for their culture because we go over there and they say, we don't have that kind of crime here or we don't do that here. And it's like, why not? And they say, we cut your hand off if you steal something. So we don't have theft. And they really don't because we... ⁓ Emily Miller: Mm. you Jack Varnado: Our CEO and President Steve Martini at that time ⁓ and CEO Mel Meyer went over there and they went to a shopping mall and they had baskets lined up of all of these full baskets of stuff pushed to the side so they could go shop in another store. Nobody was gonna fool with that basket. ⁓ The culture's different, so our training has to be different for them. we developed that. Dubai wanted to work with us and CEO ⁓ Emily Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Jack Varnado: Bill Mehlmeyer and myself went to Dubai last year and worked with the Dubai Police Department trying to help them understand what we can help provide them with as far as training ⁓ standards. We may think of training standards, but when you start looking at equipment standards, that may be something that they can very well use what we have and adopt it without having to go and do the work. And that's what we're about is is being that organization that is willing to help anyone with emergency calls and emergency services from a communication standpoint. Emily Miller: Yeah. You talked a little bit about workforce in wellness and attending the APCO summit back in mid-February, a couple weeks ago. And obviously, called it out, retention can be a challenge within communication centers, within 911 centers. So what are you seeing in those conversations at the highest level in APCO, obviously, which was where you're at when it comes to those types of issues? Jack Varnado: Yeah. We are trying to, and we're seeing some relief there with some of the things that I think that what ABCO is doing and society as a whole. I think during COVID we saw a shift in workforce and a shift in people realizing, you know what, I can do a good job from home. ⁓ And we got challenged with that of not being able to find some... Emily Miller: Mm-hmm. Jack Varnado: of the people that we were hiring of not being able to find that, that, but now I think people are coming to the realization that, that not every job can be done from home. So if they want to get into this, then they're going to have to, they're going to have to realize you can't do this from home. ⁓ not on a regular basis, I think under certain circumstances for short periods of time, it may be something that could be done, but, ⁓ we're seeing, ⁓ seeing that we put together a couple of workforce summits. and talked about this with different leaders throughout the country ⁓ across multiple organizations from the Ritz Carlton to... Disney and talking with them on how do we encourage a workforce or how do we retain a workforce? ⁓ And stress was a big part of that, which is where we added wellness into the summit. we found that as these different generational opportunities and I'm not going to say challenges because every generation has their own opportunities. ⁓ We've got to look at what's going to work in our workforce. ⁓ Make those appropriate changes whether they're policy changes, whether they are... ⁓ location changes, ⁓ environmental changes from the environment that they're working in. ⁓ Maybe not having just a strict office chair, but having something else there. Maybe not letting someone just say, I'll take a break when I want to, and telling them you're going to get up and take a break. We're going to mandate that ⁓ during a 12 hour shift instead of, I remember shifts where I'd get up, the only time I'd get up is run to the bathroom and come back to my console. ⁓ And many times, I'd... Emily Miller: do. Jack Varnado: I would become stressed out because I didn't go outside and walk around and, and get a little fresh air. And now we're seeing that, that, that when we're making somebody get up and go away from the environment that, that, know, it's kind of helping their, their health and, their mental health, their stress level. And, and I know it's, it's tough sometimes to say, well, you're making them do it. Yes, we are. And it's for their own good. And. Emily Miller: Mm-hmm. Jack Varnado: And over time they're going, you know, I really did need that 15 minutes today. Without you making me do it, I wouldn't have done it. So we've learned that from different organizations and from things that our different dispatch centers and ECCs are doing. Steve McDonnell: We've went around the country and obviously we've supported a lot of PSAPs in New York and Pennsylvania and the states we cover for NICE. ⁓ It's been interesting that most 911 centers are on that 12 hour shift, which can be ⁓ a tough shift mentally, I would assume. Have there ever been conversations about changing up shift hours? Jack Varnado: Yeah, there's a lot of different ⁓ opinions out there about that. But when you go to look in at these dispatchers and you're going to say, hey, look, I'm going to take your you're working 12 hour shifts and you're off every other weekend. But now I'm to put you on an eight hour shift and you're going to work five weekends in a row. And then you're going to get two weekends off and then you're going to work there. They're a little bit squirrely about don't mess with my shift. I'll work the 12 hour shift. Steve McDonnell: Yeah. Emily Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Steve McDonnell: Yeah. Jack Varnado: Well, I think that there has been conversations and I know in my own agency, we've had that conversation of, we just force that to make it a better working environment for them? ⁓ Now, I think we've got to have their input and that's where we're at of getting their input and saying, okay, what can we compromise on? Because we don't want you to have to work every other weekend or five weekends in a row and then get two weekends off and then have to start working five weekends again and where on the 12s they're getting every other weekend off. That's the real challenge there. And then a lot of these have kids, they're able to make their ball games and things with being off. ⁓ so forth. It's just, and they can make appointments during the day for their doctors, their teachers, and so forth when they're off during the days. But if you're stuck on straight days, Monday through Friday, you've got to take time off and to do those. So there's a good and bad, but I think those conversations are good to have and get the employees actually involved in that decision to see what's. Emily Miller: All right. Jack Varnado: what's available and what we can do. But that 12 hours is a tough shift, especially if it's busy. It's a tough shift. Steve McDonnell: Yeah. Well, it's good to hear that the conversations are at least beaten ahead. Emily Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, with the telecommunicators, right. ⁓ Jack, let me ask, just out of curiosity, obviously wellness isn't the only thing you're talking about at this level with APCO. What are some of the other topics? Is call response time one of them? Is overtime ever in that conversation? What else is being talked about at that level? Jack Varnado: Yes. you Yes, call time, processing time, answer time. We're rated as communication centers, we're rated ⁓ by the fire departments. Emily Miller: Yeah. Jack Varnado: And whether it's a an ISO rating or in my my state, Louisiana, we do a P.I.L. rating ⁓ they rate our communications division on a lot of things. And that time is one of them. Ninety 95 percent of our calls have to be answered in under 15 seconds and 99 have to be answered in under 40 seconds. Or we're dinged for that. And that could make a difference in our homeowners insurance. ⁓ And ⁓ That's talking dollars. So we have to look at that every month. We look at that. And I know a lot of different centers do the same thing. ⁓ Most do. And they look at that and they say, hey, look, do we have to increase staffing? Because if we have to, if our homeowners insurance, fire insurance is going to go up because of this, we're going to be hearing the public screaming at our city council and council meetings going, what are you doing? And the fire boards. Emily Miller: Right. Jack Varnado: So we've got to look at that. So we look at those kinds of things. Equipment, the type of equipment, the different things that we're putting into dispatch. Do they really belong in dispatch? Emily Miller: Okay. Yeah. Jack Varnado: ⁓ license plate reader cameras. Do those belong in dispatch or should they be in real time crime centers? Or many of our agencies actually act as real time crime centers because they get the notifications of ⁓ active alarms going off, license plate readers, all of these things. And I think as we see some of those things happen, ⁓ we in the larger organizations, we look at that. We also look at national things such as first net reauthorization. Those kinds of things. Next generation 911 funding nationwide. We don't want any any situation with next generation 911 to be the haves and have nots. That's where our local 911 is at right now. We have we have agencies who still have basic 911. They don't have wireless. They don't have Voight capability. Emily Miller: Mm-hmm. Jack Varnado: We can't do that with Next Generation 911. We've got to fund this at a level that is going to help ⁓ every single county, township, municipality, parish in this entire country. And we've got to bring them along at the same time. We can't do this piecemeal. Emily Miller: Yeah, that's a great transition into our next section because I want to be cognizant of your time too, but you're currently leading the transition to 911 and a cloud-based CAD system in Livingston Parish. So can you talk about more about like what that transition requires and how you're experiencing it from the leadership standpoint? Steve McDonnell: ⁓ wow. Jack Varnado: Yeah, we, uh, Livingston Parish, we, were the first 911 center in Louisiana to go full next generation 911. Now, does that mean that we are the that we're finished with next gen. No, no, we're not. We next generation 911 is so much more than just OK, let's go from analog camera trunks to full blown silt trunks and so forth. No, it has to be a fully interoperable system that can also transfer that data, that rich data that we're able to get through cell phones and through VoIP technology through alarms. calls and so forth that we're not just able to get it into dispatch but we're able to push it out there to the first responders that are going to these calls. That's what next generation 911 not just being able to receive it into dispatch, but we need to then share that to the appropriate agencies that are coming. Just think about this from a 911 perspective. If we get a major car accident at an intersection and somebody calls that call in and they're able to activate their camera and send us a picture or a video of that accident, we can send it to the fire department who's responding, the EMS agency who's responding. But now this patient that's critical in that car. that vehicle, the paramedics get there and they say, dispatch, can you send that to the trauma center and let the surgeon, the trauma surgeon, the trauma doctors look at that vehicle accident so that they can see how bad the physical accident was. And they're able to transfer that onto the trauma center and the trauma surgeon get that. How great would that be for the potential outcome of that particular patient or patients in that car. Those are the types of things that I think 911 in the next generation, that's what we're going to do. But 911 cannot be a single point of failure that we currently have with the technology that the existing legacy system is on. We have so many single points of failure in the current legacy system. I currently have five different internet providers that provide my 911 calls to me. So if, if I, if my main fiber goes down or it just gets where it's got a lot of jitter on it, it may say the, system will look at it and go, I don't like that. I can't, I can't, I can't deliver appropriate calls or text on that. I'm going to, I'm going to transfer over to this one. And that one's not any better. I'm going to go to one of the three other ones that I have and that's all the way up to Starlink satellite that I have backing my system up. And then think about this, a hurricane comes through. It totally decimates my building. Well, I can just pick up and move, log into a internet system, log into that with the appropriate security that we've got, and then I can start taking calls from any location in the whole country, as long as I have internet and I have the appropriate security. And because my CAD is in the cloud also, I can do the exact same thing with my CAD. The only part that really doesn't yet, and we're working on that, is radio. So I can then take a portable radio if my towers are up. I can take a portable radio and dispatch on that from anywhere in my parish. Steve McDonnell: The interesting thing is I've talked to, you know, having conversations with Motorola and Axum and these big companies and they're saying, you know, for the first time ever, people are starting to move some of these solutions to cloud in the 911 center. And in our world, people were doing it in the enterprise world and the financial services 10 years ago. So technology just seems, Jack Varnado: Yep. Yep. Steve McDonnell: Obviously it's mission critical. You guys have to have everything boom, boom, boom. So it makes sense that you guys are probably the last adapters to this type of technology. But now that it's going, do you think it's gonna start moving fast? Everyone's gonna most, cause I still don't from a lot of the conversations we're having, a lot of them are still not up in the cloud. The PSAPs aren't moving their call handling or radios or CAD. The more progressive counties like you obviously in parishes are doing it. Do you think there'll be a shift? Can you feel a shift happening that it's going on now? Jack Varnado: Yes, I do. And I think cybersecurity has been a big reason why some of these bigger companies did not want to do it. They wanted to make sure that this GovCloud, whether it's in AWS or whoever is out there, they have a really secure ⁓ system for that, that we're not going to be dealing with the cyber. intrusions that we're seeing. And I think that's one of the big things that APCO, speaking of, is doing. We are really asking the federal government to stand up a cybersecurity ⁓ office just for 911 systems and communication systems, not 911, but communication systems. Because I think, like you said, it's the Motorola's, the Harris, the different companies out there. I believe that we're going to have some type of radio in the cloud. where I can dispatch from anywhere in the world, just like I can take my calls or put my CAD in anywhere. ⁓ And we're really asking for, as part of the next generation funding, is stand up that cybersecurity center that will benefit everyone. And now you don't have little small rural county over here with 4,000 people in it. They're at a different level of service because they can't afford to. Emily Miller: Yeah. Jack Varnado: hire some security service, some high-powered security service that East Baton Rouge or New Orleans can hire, but they get the same protection of their critical infrastructure of 911 emergency communications. Emily Miller: Wow. That's crazy. A lot going on. Jack Varnado: There's just so much. Yeah, there's much going on. And really is a fun time to be a part of this. Steve McDonnell: going on. So, so what Yeah. And I'm sure you're in Washington right now. AI is being spoken about all over the place in Washington and all over our country right now. What's your take on, is the 911 community or communications community embracing it? How are they looking at it? It could be a scary thing to a lot of people. What's your kind of take on where that's going to go? Jack Varnado: Well, I'll tell you, and y'all hadn't mentioned it yet, so you probably didn't go quite far enough back in your research. But ⁓ back in September, October, ⁓ ABCO hosted us ⁓ an AI summit in Orlando. And ⁓ we are embracing AI, but we want it to be done responsible, ⁓ ethical and responsible. ⁓ Emily Miller: Thanks. Jack Varnado: We know that AI is currently playing a role in so many things that we do in our lives. It's going to play a role. We can't deny that. It's going to. How do we get it to be done and done correctly, done ethically, responsibly? We think that AI can be used in quality assurance. It's already being used. I've already, I've already hired a company to do AI for, for quality assurance for us. We're, we're going to see it in training. ⁓ where, where before you had to find a good dramatic caller, ⁓ call taker to say, play this, play this role. And, and now you've got a person taken off of the floor to go play a role and. Emily Miller: and Jack Varnado: somebody's now got to listen to it and evaluate it, that trainee taking the call. But now, now we can let AI develop the criteria and deliver that and then grade that new trainee on that. We're already seeing that. ⁓ But I think that AI is going to play a much bigger role as we go down this road because we're going to, some centers are already doing it with non-emergency calls. Let's not take those non-emergency calls. Let's let that AI chat bot take that call and route it appropriately or give them the report they need and. Emily Miller: You Jack Varnado: get off of it and it didn't have to take a human intervention ⁓ there. Steve McDonnell: Yeah, that is where we've seen it most so far. Two specific companies really doing well and PSAPs doing the non-emergency calls. Emily Miller: Yeah. Jack Varnado: Yep. And look, let me tell you, I'm sorry, Amal, the AI is not. Emily Miller: Yeah. Awesome. No, go ahead. Keep going. Steve McDonnell: ⁓ no. Jack Varnado: out there to replace call takers, dispatchers. It's not, we are going to have to have that human intervention and human decision making to do our jobs in the critical moments. But can we reduce some of these truly non-emergency calls that are flooding our dispatch centers with because Emily Miller: and agree more. Jack Varnado: in a lot of ways, and I do not mean to disparage anybody calling for assistance, but so many times our public is conditioned that the local government can take care of every need they have. And that's not what they're there for. They're there and they're so often handling these non-emergency, non-urgent calls and they're not able to get to the real emergency calls or the real high priority calls. And we've got to do a better job as a society, not just telecommunications, emergency communications. We've got to do better at society of saying, This is not what our emergency service agencies are out there to do. They're not there to run these non-emergency calls. I was listening to a call the other day from an agency and a lady was cutting lettuce and cut her finger. She needed a bandaid. called 911 for that, had to send the fire department and an ambulance out to that because that was the agency policy. And how do you tell them, no, what's the social media going to be? What's the repercussions? And I sat there thinking, wow, that's not an agency problem. That's a societal problem that we've to do better educating our public in what Emily Miller: Bye. Steve McDonnell: Good. Emily Miller: All Steve McDonnell: Yeah. Jack Varnado: is truly a call for service. I'm not even gonna say emergency because we know that. What's the true call for that? Emily Miller: Mm. Steve McDonnell: Yeah, that's a wild story. And I think we're with you. think AI should enhance the 911 centers and kind of enrich and hopefully make the call takers and dispatchers' lives less stressful because these things can help them out so much. I think that's the key to it. Jack Varnado: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Emily Miller: Yeah. Yeah, 100%. All right, Steve, is there anything else you wanna ask Jack before I wrap us up? Yeah. Steve McDonnell: No, this has been awesome. Thanks. Thank you so much. Some incredible stories. We appreciate this and obviously we're excited to be going to some APCO conferences coming up. So thanks again. Emily Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jack Varnado: We're, let me tell you, APCO is here anytime you need. ⁓ We're here to be a resource for you to get information out to the public and so forth. And... Steve McDonnell: awesome. Jack Varnado: I feel confident that anytime you call, we'll be able to help you with whatever it is, even helping you get to the appropriate membership for certain things. So thank you for doing this and I so appreciate it and the opportunity. It a lot of fun. Emily Miller: Yeah, a lot of fun for sure. And Jack, before I share with our listeners where they can find you, are there any initiatives at APCO or Livingston Parish that you want to share about right now? Jack Varnado: ⁓ I would just say that stay tuned to to Abco social media. ⁓ Emily Miller: Mm-hmm. Jack Varnado: website and so forth about about next generation 9-1-1 about first net reauthorization. Those are some legislative things. But let me tell you the one big thing that I have been focused on and and so many in our organization have been is getting our telecommunicators reclassified as protective service occupation employees. They are right now they are considered administrative clerical. They are not what they are doing. is not administrative clerical. They are emergency ⁓ call takers and they deserve that protection or designation as emergency, I'm sorry, protective service, occupation. And the Senate has passed it out at the U.S. without any opposition. And it is sitting in the House of Representatives and it is stalled right now. But we at APCO We are out there trying to fight that fight to get our telecommunicators ⁓ reclassified as protective service. Crossing guards and lifeguards, school crossing guards are protective service, but our telecommunicators are not. And we've got to change that. And APCO is working as hard as we possibly can to get them reclassified. So stay tuned for things that may be coming. and call to actions that could come here in the next few months to try to get this done and get it over the finish line. Emily Miller: Thank you, Jack. And we at WillMac definitely back everything you're doing with APCO and are proud to be a part of that community. All right, for our listeners, if you're interested in learning more about Jack and following along with his work at Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office and APCO International, you can find Jack on LinkedIn under Jack Varnedow. Beyond that, Jack called out the APCO social media and APCO International website. That is www.apco.com. ⁓ internationalintl.org. And last but not least Livingston Parish's website and social media. You can find it www.lpso.org. We'll include all those details in the show notes. So Jack, thank you so much for joining us on the Will MacWire. It's been an absolute pleasure. Jack Varnado: Thanks Emily and Steve, I appreciate it so much and God bless y'all and God bless all of our telecommunicators and communications experts out there. They're the best and they keep our industry strong. Emily Miller: do. All right. Thank you. Steve McDonnell: Thanks, Jack. Jack Varnado: Thank you.