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Autism Parenting and the Nervous System: Why Change Starts with Us with Sara Intonato · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Inch Stones podcast. I am so thankful for the way in which this world works and who and why and what the universe gives you via people, via experiences, via things. And one thing that is for certain is that I was meant to be in the presence of Sarah Antonato, and I believe vice versa. Because her story as a mother of a profoundly autistic son named Rocco was a springboard to my own advocacy work. And I am thrilled to have her back today to share not only about Rocco and her life as a mother of a non speaker, but what she is currently doing to sit in the gifts that I believe the universe has given her to make changes for this population of mothers and caregivers called Autism change makers. So Ms. Sarah Antonado, welcome for being here on Inches again.
• 0:47
  Speaker B: Love you. I just have to start by saying that I'm seriously so excited to talk about everything that I love to talk about, but I'm just so, so happy to be here with you. And I'm so happy that we are in this together. I could cry like, there's something so special when you're around other parents who, you know, get it, who are doing their work, who want to lift you up and. And to me, that's a good segue into the work that I do because Rocco's 16, I have a 14 year old daughter as well. And when he was 2 and newly diagnosed, the Internet was not a happy place to be for me as an autism parent. I felt like every group that I found was very heavy and it was heavy because of autism, it was very heavy because parents were not supported. It's not their fault. But I felt like I couldn't even go into those groups because they pulled my energy down so, so intensely. There was no tick tock. You know, at that time, autism was cool. I remember putting him on a gluten free, dairy free diet and being told I was a witch doctor by people in family, you know. So for me, I very intentionally turned everything off and then went inward for probably the better part of a decade. And it wasn't until we were filming the Rocko up documentary, which is how I came to meet you in person at our very first screening of it here in Montauk. And our executive producer, Kevin McCann, who I know, you know and love. We love Kevin.
• 2:28
  Speaker A: Like I. My life has grown so many ways through that film, through you, Kevin McCann. He's gonna listen to this and be like so annoyed. He's going to listen to this and go, I can't believe you Mentioned my name. What a.
• 2:45
  Speaker B: Because Kevin is.
• 2:47
  Speaker A: He is the original wanderlust. What is possible human for me.
• 2:52
  Speaker B: Yes, yes. I was mentioning it as a grandpa now himself. And I remember when we were just starting to film the documentary, we were talking about a surf therapy event we had in Montauk coming up. And it was right at the start of the school year, like the second day of school. And Kevin said, you know, Sarah, are you going to be at this event? And I said, kevin, I don't really sign Rocco up for these things. First of all, it's the second day of school, we've got to get into our routine. Second of all, he surfs every day with us. I want this to be reserved for people who get to surf once a year and really rely on parents who can't do it themselves. And he goes, sarah, that's nice of you, but that's not why I want you to come. He said, I want you to come because I want parents to see you taking care of yourself, happy, enjoying your child thriving in life. That's why I want you to come. And it was one of those moments that felt like getting hit in the face with a two by four. Because I just thought, what do you mean? Isn't everybody doing this? Because I had just been head down parenting my own kid for 10 plus years, didn't think I was doing anything special by taking care of myself and managing my own stress and leaning on all types of health, physical health, mental health, emotional, spiritual health, to help me on my journey with my own child. And I went home from that conversation that day and I thought, oh, what's happening in the rest of this population that made him say that? And as I started paying more attention, I thought, okay, we are not thriving collectively. What did Kevin mean? Why would I be able to thrive when other parents who have similar life circumstances would not be able to thrive? What goes into that? And I sat myself down at a co working space in New York City one morning after yoga practice and outlined my book, Emotional Healing for Parents of Children with Autism, and just forced myself to sit there and tell my story on, at least outline it on paper to say, well, what is actually going on here? What could help people? And that was the start of my coaching and consulting practice, that was the start of my podcast. And eventually that led to Autism Change Makers. But really the only reason that happened is because I had to sit with myself and say, you know, you've been, been the change maker for your child. What allowed you to do that? Could you give this to other people. And the answer was yes. But I really didn't even consider doing anything like this until Kevin McCann gave me the elbow to say, you know, how about you check in with yourself here?
• 5:34
  Speaker A: Wiser than I always love the Julia Louis Dreyfus podcast is, you know, titled Wiser than me. It's the wiser than me folk in this world that go. You don't see it? I see it. Go. Go, kiddo, go do it.
• 5:45
  Speaker B: So thankful. So thankful.
• 5:47
  Speaker A: Was there a specific moment before you, you know, named and created autism changemakers that you knew that that was such an inner calling of yours and what you had done the internal work for was now you. You had had to give that back. You know that. When was that moment for you?
• 6:07
  Speaker B: I think it was not one moment, but I think it was a journey to that moment that started when Ann Alfano, one of my favorite mentors who works in relationship development intervention, she stumbled upon Rocco's early intervention case when he was 2. She's still in my life, said to me, he was 2. And she said, you know, Sarah, don't expect school to be the change maker. Don't expect the doctors to be the change maker, don't expect the therapist. You are the change maker. And it was another one of those two by four moments thinking, what is she talking about? I'm barely able to catch my breath. I have a baby and a 2 year old who's non speaking like I'm just trying to put dinner on the table and not lose my shit by 7pm how am I doing this? And so I filed it in the back of my mind though, and I thought, well, maybe someday, but not right now. And I just put my head down, went through my own life and through years of really intense things with Rocco, dealing with biomedical things, behaviors, school advocacy, taking our own journey to open spelling, which took years, and me having to become the provider because we didn't have one near us. Seeing a 16 year old now who is not only spelling openly, but a regulated human, more regulated than most adults I know, has really made me reflect and say, she was right. We would never be here if I hadn't decided one day at a time, to just be the change maker today, even if I had no idea what was going to happen three months down the line. But just do my best today and listen to my gut today and pour my all into today as best I could. And I think that was a big takeaway for me because if I had stared down the barrel of three months, three years, what's going to happen when he's an adult. It would have brought me to my knees. I would have been in such a state of overwhelm and stress trying to figure all of that out. I wouldn't have been able to do anything. It would have put me into a functional free state. So I really just had to lean on my yoga practice and my spiritual tools to be able to be present today and really look at my intuition and say, what's urgent today, Sarah? What do you need to focus on today? What needs to hold off until tomorrow or just not right now and truly take it one day at a time? So in my group now, autism change makers that was born last year after I tested many things that didn't quite feel right and then eventually did a focus group and figured out, okay, this is the way I can really help people, is helping people realize what's the most important thing today. And remember, you're not gonna be able to figure that out if you yourself are a dysregulated parent. So first we focus on you and get you into a state of presence. And you're gonna have to be okay with the discomfort that comes with me saying, put down the letterboard or put down the advocacy paperwork and go focus on you in whatever way you can. Right now. You don't know how to breath work. I give it to you. You know, you don't know how to meditate. I give it to you. I give you all the things that you could possibly need. If you're the parent who is not able to get out of the house very much or doesn't have a lot of support, we still make it doable for you. So that's what we do in the group. We start there, and we let it grow one day at a time. And we're seeing parents now changing their own energy. We're seeing the energy in their home, the energy between their children change. We're seeing them have a lot more success with advocacy and getting through really hard things like school refusal, a kid who hasn't been outside in two years because his ocds are so intense, letterboard resistance, you name it. We see the really hard stuff, and we see progress. And the best part about it is that nobody in there is dealing with isolation because everyone in there gets it.
• 10:10
  Speaker A: Well, that's. I mean, gosh, one of the things I. I speak about in my keynote is exactly that, is that there's actually so many broad universal systems theories that talk about interaction over isolation. And if the only interaction that you can have from These very beginning phases of trying to undo the fight and flight and the stress hormones that your nervous system is causing you in this very demanding, atypical motherhood. If the interaction is solely with other people in severe isolation, that still counts, and that will still give you a breath to at least find some sort of space to do the next right thing. Isolation is what we do for prisoners, to punish them. We literally punish people. We put them in isolation. Because when you isolate someone, you literally take away their re. Their ability to grow and change. We are not static. We are not meant to be static individuals where it's constantly kinetic energy around us all the time. And. And if that first step through autism, changemakers is saying, your isolation is so profound because of your. Of the life that's been given to you, you still don't have to isolate. You still have to interact in the way that society is telling you to. This still counts. Yeah, like, this kind of stuff. It still counts, and it counts. So it counts so much so that it probably is counting more than a talk with the neighbor across the street that you might just see on a dog walk. And that's why I think you're growing something so beautiful. Is that, you know, before we press record, we said. I said, gosh, is your social media algorithm showing so much about the nervous system right now? I feel like it's like, maybe it's my age at 42, maybe it's that I am constantly seeking out information to understand my own nervous system and grief and. And processing, but I do think it's taking a hold and there is some sort of awareness about nervous systems. And then, as you said, the collective nervous system of a home, when there's a lot of dysregulation in the form of a child, a profound, you know, autism or special needs that. Identifying that and knowing. And I'm. I'm very much aligned with, like, primary evolutionary biology. The woman and mother and caregiver in the home is the central nervous system of the house, period.
• 12:27
  Speaker B: Amen, sister.
• 12:29
  Speaker A: And. And the. And your children's regulation, whether they are extreme and behavioral, like my son's is right now.
• 12:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:38
  Speaker A: Is a complete reflection of my ability to regulate and be the CNS for the family and for the children. And I don't. I don't say that to take away. I only have one earring. And that's really funny, like, looking. I say that in a way to. To give beautiful power into what it. Those small changes do to the system. And I know that you see it all the time.
• 13:01
  Speaker B: I also think that to your point, the nervous system is everywhere now. And with that I think people are actually paying less attention to it because it's so ubiquitous. It's like, oh, that again. You know, what do I even do?
• 13:17
  Speaker A: Macroeconomics? Like you can start talking about the tyranny. People are like, yeah, I mean, it's always there, right?
• 13:23
  Speaker B: Right. But if you break down to a parent, hey, by the way, you know when your child is having an epic meltdown and property is being destroyed and humans are being scratched and bitten, guess what the best thing to help them is? You. A steady present. You, you can't actually help them at all if you're even a little bit dysregulated. This is brutally inconvenient because it's very dysregulating for a parent to watch their child be self injurious or aggressive or get kicked out of school because they were too disruptive. But what's going to help your child actually de escalate is a steady presence. Ideally you so you doing work that allows you to ground yourself. You can call it nervous system work if you want, so that you can co regulate with your child no matter how old they are, that needs you. There is nothing more powerful or more profound than that in our lives. And especially to your point of having a young boy. I have a teenage boy who's almost twice my size. I can't pick him up and throw him in the car seat if he's having a meltdown anymore. Those days are over. So I need to be able to ground myself enough that no matter what we're dealing with, he can look to me as the lighthouse and it can help him to reconnect to himself and move through whatever challenge he's facing. Because I don't have as many options as I did when he was pint size and I could just throw him back in the stroller or in the car and peace out.
• 15:05
  Speaker A: So that also, that also just speaks to what we can never harness, is that we are, like I said previously, we are ever evolving. Humans, mothers, fathers, individuals, full stop. There's no way to untether your evolution. And by doing, if you do choose to root yourself and that this is how one thing is and I'm not gonna change and it's never gonna be good. What I've seen through just, you know, reading and taking other stories is that the more in which we become so locked in to the way it has to be, the more that that becomes this core pillar of who we are that when it's. When it's like when it be. When. When the anger or the dysregulation or the emotional frustration becomes what is the core of the way your house is run or how you move through the world that is. That is dysregulating to everything that you touch by default. And it. And it's not. Again, it's so. It's. It's actually just a sad reality because the movement is what processes all that. The movement. I mean, it's physical, physical, actual physical movement. Like you said, 1 minute, 5 minute, 10 minutes. It is incredible what a gift you can give to yourself, even within the walls of your home or your backyard, to allow for that to begin to the movement, to move through it. Because we ha. We are called so deeply, so primally to move through it as a way to allow evolution of your own self, of your own humanhood to move on. And again, it really does come down to once you feel it and see it, you really can't unsee it or unfeel it, but it's giving yourself the grace enough to even experiment with trying to. And I think that so many parents in situations like us are just so. Like you said, they are so depleted, they are so wiped that they can't even fathom taking three minutes for themselves at the end of the day.
• 17:00
  Speaker B: And not that.
• 17:01
  Speaker A: I mean resistance. You and I both. I will. I can talk. My resistance, my internal resistance can talk me, myself almost out of anything, of course.
• 17:09
  Speaker B: But also, parents in our population have been programmed with the story of that's just autism. How many times in your life heard that? Right? I remember when Rafa was seven and having a really brutal sleep regression. People would say, that's just autism. And I remember thinking, I refuse to believe that my 7 year old is just some anomaly that doesn't need sleep at night. Every human needs sleep. There's got to be a reason. But if you use that line or anything like it, and you subscribe to that story, that's just autism. It puts you in victim mentality so that you never try anything. You can't be a victim and be responsible at the same time. They are in fact actually mutually exclusive. So you can choose to say, oh, let me explore this. You so beautifully say all the time, let me be curious about this. Would five minutes of breath work help me? I don't know. Maybe I should try it. Or you can decide, that's just autism. That's just my life as an autism caregiver or an autism parent. And I'm just gonna have to deal with this. And I remember at one point someone asked me recently what the hardest moment ever parenting was. We've had many in all forms, from home instruction to, you name it, medical complexity to behaviors. The hardest one was when he had a parasite and we didn't know.
• 18:31
  Speaker A: I remember this. Yes.
• 18:32
  Speaker B: This was like two summers ago. He was adult size by then. And my happy sweet boy was sort of like watching the kettle slowly boil to the point where he was boiling over. And it came out in the way of really intense behaviors. Aggression like he's never had before ever. And again, twice my size. So you take someone twice my size and put them into it looked like you could see his pupils were dilated. He. He was just in a nervous system state of emergency and was physically reacting to that. He was physically uncomfortable. Didn't know it at the time. The day of his worst behavior moment ever, we happened to get some of his diagnostic tests back that night. Turns out he had a huge parasite. 24 hours later, after figuring that out and treating the parasite, even just starting to, my happy boy was back. The fixations were gone. The aggression was gone. The freeze, that functional freeze state, that nervous system hijack was gone. And I remember thinking, can you imagine if I had just listened to all the people who said, that's just autism, Sarah. That's just having an autistic kid who's big now. This is. The behaviors get worse as they get older. He has no behaviors now, unless he's sick. Then you might see that. But on a regular date, no. And if I had listened to people I have been operating from that place of there's nothing I can do for me. That's victim mentality. It doesn't mean if I do something, it's going to lead to a perfect solution right away. It doesn't mean it's going to be easy. It definitely doesn't mean there's no work involved here. There's a lot of work involved. But I chose not to subscribe to those stories of, oh, that's just autism. That's just how it is now. That's just how having a teenager is. And I have the typical teenage daughter, as do you. I have to check myself with the teenage girl stories even for her.
• 20:29
  Speaker A: Totally. Totally. I mean, there's so many things sometimes that I laugh about that are such as beautiful parallel between, you know, parenting a typical child and a. And, you know, neurodiverse, deeply, severely neurodiverse that I can laugh so calmly about some typical developing teen girl things. Yet there are some severities that are exposed in teen girl, you know, mother daughter development that I still get to reflect on and change from a, from a, from a systems angle, from a way of saying, this isn't working for us right now. I can tell this isn't working for her. This isn't working for me. You know, I'm going to consciously change this. Sometimes that means withstanding the immediate friction that a change asks and begs of you. I mean, a change is going to be felt regardless, and that creates friction. And friction is not comfortable. But discomfort isn't unsafe. Something I've been exploring a lot more is how it's not unsafe to be uncomfortable. Because when you sit in un discomfort, it actually proves that you can move through almost anything. And that's why I think that you and I sit in the place we are now after years and years and years and years of self reflection and integration to those changes, those small little wins that end up really becoming why all the theologians and greatest thinkers of the world talk about discomfort and pain. Being your greatest teacher.
• 21:55
  Speaker B: So you shared earlier beautifully what your keynote was about. My keynote is about how it is the sitting in discomfort that leads to nervous system healing. Because healing is not comfortable. It is not a straight line. Breakthroughs, as you and I have talked about before, are not super fun if you're really experiencing one that's making you examine all of your patterns and all the times you've been a victim and all of the things you've chosen to engage in that maybe were not favorable for you. So sitting in the discomfort of the unfamiliar is the thing that leads to healing. Because if you start to feel that discomfort, that unfamiliarity, and you can't be with it, your brain, your subconscious, will actually pull you into the familiar as fast as possible. Which is what people say they don't want. I don't want to stay in this pattern. I don't want to stay in this relationship or in this job or whatever. But if they start to touch the unfamiliar, the new, and they can't be with the discomfort of that, their brain will tell them this isn't right, go back, and they'll go back to that toxic thing that they say they don't want.
• 23:03
  Speaker A: But Sarah, don't you think though, that that's why Rocco and Millie and Mac for us are the most incredibly beautiful teachers? Is that. I mean, it's hard to say this, but we couldn't go back. We couldn't say, no, no, no, I need you to speak, sweetheart. I need you to talk. I need you to regulate yourself. There was no going back to the beautiful human that we birthed. And I always say, I created these humans with my body, I nourish them with my body. They are of me so deeply that to deny their full humanity would be denying like the absolute encapsulation of what beauty and hard and goodness is. All is in one thing. But that's what people. When you have a choice, sometimes the choice is actually part of the problem. I sometimes think that not having a choice was the best thing for me, not having that immediate fix.
• 23:55
  Speaker B: I feel that way too. But the reality is that you and I did have a choice.
• 24:00
  Speaker A: Tell me more.
• 24:01
  Speaker B: So we chose to go to the edge of discomfort and be there on the regular to see if it helped our children thrive. And we continue to do that every day. And there is comfort and familiarity in the things that people say they don't want. Right. Like I don't want a kid who's addicted to screen time. But if you take the screen time away and you start to work on something different, there will be discomfort there for everybody to manage. And if you can't manage it, you're going to slingshot back the other way. These are the things that you and I lean into on a daily basis because we continue to support ourselves and our own nervous systems enough to keep doing it. But we could just as easily say, no, don't want to do it. Too uncomfortable. I'm going to go back to binge watching Netflix instead of working on this thing with my child. But you know what? I didn't like it when my family called me a witch doctor when I changed my kids diet. So I'm gonna go back to feeding them whatever three times a day and
• 25:01
  Speaker A: then realizing that, oh my God, what I'm seeing, I can't unsee it yet. I'm told I shouldn't see it. So. Okay.
• 25:08
  Speaker B: Right, right. So we do have a choice. And I think it wasn't until I opened my coaching and consulting practice that I started to see that it is a choice and that a lot of people are still not choosing it. And I understand why. It's because they don't think feel supported on their end enough to keep going with this discomfort on a daily basis. And I think it's a crucial thing to talk about because as you know, Rocco at 16 now is an open speller. I became his RPM provider four years ago when I couldn't find one near us. And here we are with a lot of discomfort and a lot of Messiness in the middle there between then and now. And I think people see open spellers in the non speaking world and they think, well, this is the new magic bullet. This is the thing that's going to make my life fixed, right? And on some levels it does. On some levels it's so beautiful because you get to experience your child in a completely new way no matter how old they are. And to me that never gets old. But I've started to see a really interesting difference in the households of open spellers with parents who are doing their work and the households of open spellers with parents who are not doing their work. And it sort of felt like another two by four to the face because I think a lot of people can think, oh, you have an open speller. Well, this is it, right? Like now your life is just coasting. But when I see open spellers, and I'll use the example of my friend Betsy Hicks Russ, whose son Joey is 32. We love Betsy and Joey. Joe, he's Joe now.
• 26:44
  Speaker A: Joe, he's Joe now. Come on, come on, get the program. Yeah, Joe, I get it.
• 26:48
  Speaker B: He started spelling openly at 30 years old. Betsy, of course, had seen him go through many situations in life, many educational environments, if you could call them that, that did not presume competence and him being treated like he was stupid when of course he wasn't. And she said to him, you know, hey Joe, I'm sure there's been some trauma along the way, probably significantly. Do you need to talk to someone? Do you need me to set that up for you? Do you need a facilitator? Do you need some healing in this way? I respect whatever you need. And Joe said, you know, mom, I'm just so thankful that I have a voice now. I'm just really enjoying my life in ways that I haven't before. I think right now I'm good. I just want to experience this when, when it's time, I will let you know how beautiful and how mature that he felt. Grounded and present enough to just be as he was and appreciate the work that he.
• 27:44
  Speaker A: Thank you for what he correct.
• 27:46
  Speaker B: But I also have friends who are doing their best, truly good hearted parents who are doing their best. There is zero judgment. I know what this life is like, but they've chosen to not do their work and they have a child who's an open speller and he's constantly spelling about what he's worried about, how hard his life is, the challenges he faces on a daily basis. And you know what? No one is exempt from challenges. Certainly our non speakers are all facing them and they deserve to talk about them. So it's not about that. But he very rarely shares about the things that bring him joy. He doesn't often share about the joy in his home. He often shares about the worry in his home because that's what he's seeing on a daily basis from his parents who are doing their best, right? They're doing their best. But this is the environment of the home. To go back to what you were talking about, you can tell your kids, hey, you should eat all your green vegetables today. But if they see you in the corner binging a bag of chips and a Coke, they're gonna think, what? No, that's crazy.
• 28:52
  Speaker A: I'm not.
• 28:54
  Speaker B: But if they see you telling them, hey, be present, be peaceful, but they see you over here in a ball of stress, what do you think they're going to learn from you? What do you think they're going to remember? What do you think the energy in your home is like that's going to influence their journey so much more than what you tell them to do. They have to feel it from you and it going to be constant. I will use the word daily practice for you to work on your own regulation, presence, do your inner work, be with discomfort so that you can keep growing and holding that energy of connection in your home and joy and peace so that they can learn what that feels like in their body in case they've never really experienced it before. And for me, this came to a head last semester in school. Rocco, finally an open speller has said, you know, mom, I want to get my high school diploma. And as we know, some schools are slower than others with changing things. Rocco has a great school environment with team who loves him and supports him. And we're not all perfectly there yet. So we have to supplement his diploma at home. He has said he wants to do this. Last semester he started school, we had every intention of starting his home piece right away. And after a few days of school, I said to him, dude, do you want to wait until January? Because I've just never been able to enjoy your company after school, both with the spelling piece and the regulation piece like we have now. Do you want to just have some fun together after school every day? And in December, when we were reflecting before Christmas time, it was like, mom, my favorite things have been just being with you after school. And we had that connection. We've built that connection and that ability to just be present and enjoy each other's company, which took A lot more work than doing it with my typical child. But we're there and we chose to enjoy it and appreciate it before we went on to the next thing. And I chose not to tell myself story stories that he wouldn't graduate on time or I wasn't doing enough, which people get into. And I was like, forget it. We're going to appreciate what we've just done here for a little bit. And now we're back on the diploma thing and we were both ready. But I think when you've been wired for hyper vigilance, if you don't sit with the discomfort of unraveling that and
• 31:25
  Speaker A: untethering from that, even if you have
• 31:28
  Speaker B: an open spelling child who's really regulated, you're not gonna know how to appreciate it because you haven't done the work that you need to ground into that reality that is here for you now.
• 31:39
  Speaker A: Yep. Sarah, I'm so thankful for your wise, wise, wise experience and wisdom, but not only keeping it to yourself because I think it's so. It's such a beautiful inner purpose that when I listen to you speak about autism change makers and your experience with Rocco, there's such a purity to it that is so undeniable. And I think that you are showing the world what's possible when we let our children lead and lead us to our greater, highest versions of ourselves, not just the other way around, which society oftentimes dictates for us to be the leader, be the one that's pushing forward when, if we get really quiet. Some of the best teachers in this world are children that come in these atypical bodies and atypical minds and atypical communicators, yet the most intact souls that I've ever met. So thank you for showing us what's possible. I cannot wait to see. We'll make sure to post everything about autism change makers, your accounts, where to find you and to follow along. There is a lot that's happening for you and your family and specifically Rocco, and I cannot wait to follow along.
• 32:45
  Speaker B: And I will just say as we close out, thank you for that. The reason why I'm so proud of this group is because when I was a young mom, finding my way alone by choice a lot of the time, and I was looking for role models in different areas. The role model in the biomedical area, the role model in the spelling area, I had to go to the ends of the earth to find a parent who was doing their work, who'd been through the thing I'd been through to help show me the way. I was willing to do anything. I just needed someone to show me the way. It shouldn't have to be that hard. And so we've put together in this group. It's not just me. It's other parents who can show you the way. If you're dealing with elopement, if you're dealing with aggressive behaviors, if you're dealing with toileting, if I can't help you, someone in that group can usually can help you. But the whole point is that we're in there together so that you can find role models who can stand shoulder to shoulder with you to help you through that specific thing that you're dealing with right now.
• 33:46
  Speaker A: As meant to experience that as a woman and mother, we are meant to experience that. It's such a. I always say my most luxurious gifts are not in the form of anything physical. It's the mindsets that I am that I am given and get to learn from, from women who've come before on this journey. So you are so deeply a part of that and I'm very thankful for your voice in all of this. We will definitely list off everything. And Sarah, thank you for being you.
• 34:13
  Speaker B: Love you again, thank you all.
• 34:15
  Speaker A: Thank you all and we will see you here next time on the Inchdones podcast.