Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / How to Outsmart Financial Systems

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How to Outsmart Financial Systems · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Chatting with the Experts
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TV show, where I, Paula Okonneh, the host, speak with women from Africa
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and the Caribbean and in the Diaspora.
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These women are successful business owners and professionals, and the mission
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of this show is to inspire people.
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Empower and educate women globally.
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I sometimes have men on the show, but 99.
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9 percent of the time, my guests are women.
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So the guest today is Norma Cassius and the title of this
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episode is Think Like a Bank.
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Think Like a Bank focuses on navigating the financial landscape
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with strategies and with intelligence.
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And Norma's objective is to guide you in applying the same principles that
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banks use to benefit you, listener, viewer, and even for me, because
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I learn something new every day.
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So the aim of Think like a Bank is to empower you to outsmart this system.
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I'll tell you a little bit about Norma.
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She is a money management and mental health consultant with
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over 20 years of experience in the financial sector based in, and she's
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based in Harley street, London.
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She's a qualified psychotherapist with 17 years of experience across
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the various therapeutic settings.
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So she brings a unique blend of expertise to her work.
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She's also the founder and CEO of Think Like a Bank, which gives
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an innovative approach to money management and she's also an author.
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There's so much I can say about her, but why don't I do this?
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Let me just welcome her to Chatting With the experts show.
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So welcome to the show, Norma.
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Welcome.
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Hi, lovely to be on the show.
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I'm honored in fact, to be on your show, Paula.
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So thank you.
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Thank you.
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I always try to read a bit of my guests bio, but you know, I
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can't say everything because my guests are always so phenomenal.
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There's so much to say about them.
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So what I do is ask them to say a bit more because I don't know if I said everything.
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That's fine.
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So thank you for the introduction.
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So yeah, you did cover quite a bit about who I am and what I do.
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And as you quite rightly said, I'm a money management and mental health consultant.
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And for a lot of people they, sort of like, not sure about the connection
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of money management and mental health and how does that work together.
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So I'll just give you a backdrop of my story and how I combined my
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two areas of expertise together.
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So at one point in my life, I was a single mother with three
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children, age six years and under.
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I had a mortgage to pay, a car to run, all on a part time salary.
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And, you know, it was at that point, I had to either sink or swim.
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And as, you know, cost of living when people talk about this cost of living
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crisis, I was in a cost of living crisis over a decade, because from
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the day I became a single mother, I never received one penny from
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the father of my three children.
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So I had to make every penny count as you can imagine, having a mortgage to
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pay, three children to be responsible for and everything that goes with that.
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And so, you know, had I not had, at that time I was working in the bank,
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so thankfully I had some knowledge of like, you know, financial knowledge.
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And also I gained a lot of my financial knowledge from my parents.
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You know, as children, we're like sponges.
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Children are like sponges where they absorb everything
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consciously or unconsciously.
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And I saw how my parents managed and maximized their money.
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Now, my dad back in the fifties, he had two properties and
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a dry cleaners in Jamaica.
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And then he came to England.
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He was part of the windrush generation.
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Do you know what the windrush generation is?
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Yes.
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So my parents were part of that.
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And he came to England and bought the largest house on the road.
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I think that's where I get my high chest from because, you know, he
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made his money work for him.
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He had the best of everything.
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He had the best his money could buy, but it was very frugal.
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Between my mom and my dad, there were six of us.
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And I'm sure my dad must've gave my money the same housekeeper for like a decade.
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And she had to make it work right.
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And make it work, she did.
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It felt like we had everything and lacked nothing.
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Looking back now just reflecting on my mom's journey, I know
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that couldn't have been easy.
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It might it had to be a skill.
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She was so resourceful.
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She would make something out of nothing.
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She made our underwear.
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Sewed, you know, by hand.
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Our clothes, you know, she sewed all our clothes by hand.
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She really made it work.
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And my dad was somebody who was a very proud man.
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He wanted, you know, the best of everything his money could buy.
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So he wanted hard food.
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His meat on one plate.
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His, like, the dashing and the yam and all that on a separate plate.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah, that's what he wanted.
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And, you know, he didn't care if my mom couldn't make it happen.
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She had to, and she did.
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So just seeing how resourceful my mom was with the little she had and
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seeing my dad maximize what he had, I drew from both of those experiences
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and combined with my financial education from working within the bank.
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And I survived through my situation as a single parent.
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Wow.
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Great knowing your background, how you got there.
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So one of the things I noticed that stood out for me, but I like the name
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of your company, Think Like a Bank.
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I also like the fact that, you know, you're both a money management and
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mental health consultant, but how do we beat banks at their own game?
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So basically banks number one goal is to make a profit.
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Yes.
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And make a profit, they do.
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Now, from people like you and me, because when we, as you know, you put
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your money in the bank, it's not just sitting there gathering interest.
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Banks use our money to buy financial products such as loans, credit cards,
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mortgages, and whatsoever else.
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When we borrow money, so for example, if you were to put 3,000 pounds
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in a bank and say, you know, in your savings, it would earn what?
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1%, 2 percent interest, but to draw out or to get a loan for that amount of money
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or a credit card, the credit cards are just all, you know, they're just awful
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if you don't know how to manage it.
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We're talking about 18%, 20%, 24%.
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Yes.
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That's how much you would have to, you know, percentage you would pay in
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interest and charges for using that money.
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So somebody with like a 3,000 pound credit card, if they're only paying the
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minimum interest, that can take them up to 20 years, over 20 years to pay off.
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And the bank is racking up, right?
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Raking in all of that interest.
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So they're using us.
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They're using our money.
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So for me, I use their money.
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I use the same principle as them.
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I use a 0 percent credit card.
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If your credit score is good, you can get a 0 percent credit card.
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And I teach people, a lot of people say, Oh, my credit's not good,
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I'll never be able to do that.
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I run a financial boot camp, and I teach you all different financial principles,
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and that's one of them to work on your credit score so that not only when you're
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using credit, you get a good credit, and you know, you can use a 0 percent
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credit card, but if you want to get a mortgage or a credit card or a loan,
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and you've got a good credit score, then you will get financial products
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at a much lower interest rate than somebody whose credit score is not good.
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Does that make sense?
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Absolutely.
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So with that said if one, because what about if you're paying off your
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balance every month, like you have a credit card that has a 20 percent.
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And you're paying off every month and that's fine.
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You're not giving the bank any of your money because you're
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not paying any interest.
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But I would say 65 to 70 percent of people have money on their credit card.
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So every month we're in a cost of living crisis, people want to still
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live that Instagram lifestyle.
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They still want to live that lifestyle.
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You know, a lot of people, as you quite rightly said, my private practice is
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in Harley Street, London, which is a renowned medical district of the world.
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So it's where the rich and famous, the Queen, as you know, celebrities,
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everybody flies in to Harley Street to have any medical procedure from
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plastic surgery to psychotherapy.
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So I'm working with clients that have high net worth.
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And it truly really isn't about how much you earn.
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It really isn't.
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It's not how much you have, how much you earn, it's what you do with what you earn.
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Because as you, as we all know, people are aware, people that earn a lot
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of money, they live that lifestyle.
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So they will live in the multi-million pound houses.
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They will drive the top of the range cars.
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The children will be in private school.
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All of that costs money.
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So by the time all of their outgoings have gone out of their account, they're
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in the same situation as somebody that could be working in a supermarket.
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It's just on a larger scale.
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And how do you think that affects their mental wellbeing?
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Because that's the lifestyle they have, that's the image they have.
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I've worked with celebrities and the fear of not being able to continue to
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live that lifestyle is so powerful that it really does cause a lot of anxiety,
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a lot of stress, a lot of depression.
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Do you know what I mean?
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And as I said, it's not about the money.
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80 percent is about your psychology of money and I'll get into that in a minute.
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And coupled with your financial education.
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20 percent is about the money.
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That's a good one.
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20 percent is about the money and 80 percent is about the education you
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have about money and your psychology.
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Of money.
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Wow.
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That's a good one.
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So tell us about that.
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You said you'd get to that in a point in a minute.
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So we all have our own individual psychology of money.
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And in a nutshell, your psychology of money is your beliefs, which influence
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your thoughts and your thoughts influence your actions about saving,
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budgeting, spending and investing.
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So, for example, you've grown up in a household with siblings, right?
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Do you have siblings, Paula?
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I've
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got the same amount of siblings as you do.
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My parents had six of us.
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Exactly.
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Right.
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And I'm sure when you reflect on your siblings, although you was exposed
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to the same money experiences growing up, whether that was an abundance
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household or household of scarcity and lack, whatever the case may be,
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I'm sure that everybody would have processed it in an individual way.
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You might be, you know, a spender, another sibling might be frugal.
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So, how we internalize what we've been exposed to, that then shapes
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a pattern of our relationship with money and how we are with money.
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Now, I'm just baffled because I work with couples as well.
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Our couples come into my consultation room for financial therapy.
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And when I ask them about their experiences with money, so many people
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have experienced financial trauma and they're not even aware of it.
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Being exposed to like the parents arguing about money, fighting about money.
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Do you know what I mean?
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And there's always, all this stuff going on and they've absorbed all of that and
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then internalize it and then probably acting it out in their day to day life.
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They might just spend, I mean, I'll give you an example.
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So one of the clients I was working with, it was a guy and he was in my
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financial boot camp and we started to work and then he started to get a bit.
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And so I took him aside and start to do some exploration with him.
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And I asked him, you know, what's up, what's going on for you?
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Because obviously some things trigger people, you know?
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And so, he said when he was growing up, his mom used to after their
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evening meal, lock the kitchen door.
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And then In the morning, he would go to school.
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So I don't know if she didn't open up the kitchen door to give breakfast, but
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he said he used to go to school hungry.
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And as a result, he was so angry with his mom for doing that to him, you know,
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and he had so much hatred towards his mom, unforgiveness towards his mom.
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And as a result, he was just spending everything.
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Anytime he got any money he was spending it because now he's an adult he can,
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but he's in a relationship and that now is affecting his relationship.
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He's not had this discussion with his partner so she don't know
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what's going on and you know money is one of the number one things
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that breaks down a relationship.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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So I said to him, have you spoken to your mom about this?
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He was too angry.
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But after a while, I started to work with him on a therapeutic level.
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He was able to go and ask his mom because I said to her, you know,
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although what she did was not right, it may be learnt behavior.
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It may be what she was exposed to that, you know, her mom did that not to, you
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know, to be cruel or anything, but just to preserve the food to ensure that at least.
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She could guarantee that her children would have one wholesome meal, you
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know, I mean, I'm not condoning what she did, but I'm just trying to
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understand what may have happened.
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But in order to find out what really was going on for your mom,
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you need to have that conversation.
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It took a while because obviously he's had that within him for so long.
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And he did go and speak to his mom.
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And as I said, so it was.
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Ah, she had.
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That's exactly what happened to her.
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So she thought she was doing a good thing by ensuring that the family was able
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to have one hot meal in the evening.
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But look how he internalized it and how traumatized he was from it, that
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he was such an angry person and angry in his relationship and his girlfriend
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was trying to understand what's going on and he was screaming and shouting.
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It was awful.
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But after, you know, going through that therapeutic process, he felt
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vulnerable enough to go and have that conversation with his and
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that repaired their relationship.
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That's beautiful.
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So now I can see the connection between you know, being a mental health
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consultant and being a money management consultant because then his attitude
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towards the money has changed and...
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Absolutely.
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Yeah and so he's a much better steward of money now?
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Absolutely.
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Definitely.
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You know it's coming from a different perspective because you know through the
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therapeutic work we did I like to explain to him that was then where you never had
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no control over what was happening to you.
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Now you're an adult that's not happening to you anymore.
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You're earning your own money for you to spend it how you will.
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So you're making the decisions over your money.
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You're empowered now to make those decisions.
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Nobody can do that to you ever again.
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So true.
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So true.
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And so, I mean, you're saving a generation.
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Absolutely.
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To go through him reliving his own life, early life experience
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and imposing it on them.
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Absolutely.
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And so many people live a repetitive generational trauma.
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They pass on generational because there hasn't been any therapeutic intervention.
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People don't have that self-awareness.
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We know the couples are arguing about money all the time.
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I see it all the time in my practice.
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So, you know, I have to, obviously work therapeutically to help them
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understand their own individual kind of psychology of money.
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What is yours?
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Cause most people don't even know.
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And then once they...
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I see.
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Exactly.
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I asked people that it's like, they're looking at me like I'm blue.
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I mean, what are you asking me?
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You know?
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So most people don't under know or understand what their
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own psychology of money.
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So that's the starting point.
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And it takes work to understand.
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I was working with another guy from Ghana and he said he came from a big family
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and in Ghana it's like a hierarchy so when it came to food and like he would
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get like the chicken back the cheapest part of the chicken where of the elders
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would get the best part of the chicken and so for him that was scarcity.
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So he had a scarcity mindset and that's how he was with his money and that for
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him that was so traumatic for him because people hold this trauma don't they?
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Yes, they do.
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They do.
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So for me as a single mother, I know there's so many people out and that's
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why I'm so passionate about it.
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Can't make ends meet.
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You know, they haven't got enough money to come in and they
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don't know how to manage it.
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And then how much stress does that put on a person on, you know, how
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does that affect you emotionally?
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You know, you're feeling that, Oh you're feeling that you're failing.
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You're not good enough.
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I can't provide for my children.
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How does that affect your mental wellbeing?
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Yes, you're right.
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You're right.
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So talk to me about how you encourage people to be financially savvy.
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I mean, now we've talked about the psychology and how, you
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know, once that's overcome.
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Yes.
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Any hurdles with that overcome, then we can become better stewards of money.
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How to become financially savvy.
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Absolutely.
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Well, it really is.
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It really starts with knowing your numbers.
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What do I mean?
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Knowing your numbers.
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Okay.
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Absolutely.
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What do I mean by that?
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As I said, I run a financial bootcamp and one of the preparation strategies
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that I use is I ask people to send me their income and expenditure.
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Now, most people I'd say 80 percent of people just take
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it off the top of their head.
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And write it down.
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So when they get to the financial boot camp and I've taken through the
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techniques and the strategies of...
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because budgeting isn't just income and expenditure, documenting that if
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it was that everybody doing it and there wouldn't be a financial issue.
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But your budgeting is like the foundation.
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Mastering how to budget is a foundation of any money management practices.
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So knowing your numbers, know exactly where every penny is
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going, how it's going, when it's going, and where it's going.
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A lot of people are giving your money an assignment.
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A lot of people, we live in a society where we're governed and led by plastic.
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People are swiping left, right, and center.
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They go in their account one day and there's hundreds of pounds in it, go back
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to that account a few days later, and they think their account's been hacked.
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It's been robbed.
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No, you've been spending money and now it's just come out of your account.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Yes.
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I mean, it's really sad.
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And I mean, in my boot camp today, the person that spent the most on
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eating out was eight hundred, I say dollars, I say in dollars, eight
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hundred dollars for the month.
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That's not included.
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Eight hundred dollars eating out.
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Yes, that's not including food shopping or anything.
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She thought it was about 200.
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It nearly brought tears to her eyes.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.
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So now at the end of the day with the budget you were able to pinpoint to
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her where most of her money was going.
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Absolutely.
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So obviously, I'll take them through the exercises of just identifying,
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you know, putting your money into categories, you know, so for example,
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you know, people don't have, with budgeting, you need micro budgeting.
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That's one of the tools I help people build.
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So what do I mean by micro budgeting?
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So if you've got a food budget, I ask people, you know, do
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you have a budget for food?
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Do you have a budget for toiletries?
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Do you have a budget for socializing?
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They don't.
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They might just say, well, I spend, you know, 100, but they would go over and
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spend 300 if you assign a certain amount of money in certain pockets, because a
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lot of banking apps now have all these tools to help people manage their money.
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Where you can, you know, assign certain, you know, like a money for, you
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know, a budget for like, socializing.
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As I said, eating out, shopping, subscriptions, all.
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So you put certain amounts of money in these different pockets.
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And, you know, you work out how much you need to for each
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thing and you stick to it.
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Once it's gone, they will even tell you when you're getting low on your pocket.
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That, you know, you've got X amount of money left tracking your money.
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People are not tracking their money.
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People are not tracking their money, especially when they're
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using the plastics, you just...
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And it's so, I'll go back to psychological.
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It's so easy to swipe the card then to depart with cash.
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Yes.
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Yeah, you are absolutely right.
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Because I know from my personal experience for years, I didn't carry
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cash when my children were younger, because I felt if I carried cash it
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would, I would be more readily spend cash that I personally would take out
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a card and swipe it, you know, yeah.
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Does that make sense?
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I mean to ask myself, but I never had cash on me primarily for
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that reason because I'd spend it.
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For me personally, swiping a card meant I would see it show up on a
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statement and I could, and then of course the bank would categorize it
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into, you know, this was groceries.
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This was eating out.
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This was, you know, the movie theaters or whatever.
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And so that led me to go from cash to the plastic, as opposed to from plastic to
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cash because I couldn't document my cash.
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Right.
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Okay.
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And as I said, everybody has their own way, their own mindset
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of how they manage their money.
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And if it works for you, good.
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If it is not serving you, then you have to, you know, go back to the drawing
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board or get some help to make it make sense for you because you know, if you
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are in a relationship where you might be managing your money really well and
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how frustrating if you were somebody that's frivolous with their money.
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Yes.
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Yes, that's really a bone of...
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can be a bone of contention between the two.
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Absolutely.
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So knowing your numbers, when you know, I keep going back to psychology, but when
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you know your numbers, for example, if you say, okay, I've got 200 pounds a month for
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groceries, you know, 50 pounds, 50 a week, I'm just using a figure, Psychologically,
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you know you've got that 50.
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You'll be surprised how you start shopping and making sure you don't go over that 50.
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But if there isn't a budget for that, then you just spend about 60 one
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week, 80 another week, then you're not being accountable with your money.
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Yes.
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That's a good one.
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How about, okay so you talked about doing your numbers, how about navigating debt?
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So you're already in debt.
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How do you navigate out of that?
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Right.
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Okay.
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So there's various ways.
23:38
I mean, for example, if you're in like credit card debt, because there's
23:42
so many people in credit card debt, don't know how to get out of it.
23:46
The first thing to do is, I mean, a lot, and I found people are experts
23:51
in their field, but when it comes to money, it's almost like they regressed
23:54
to like a childlike state because they don't know where to begin.
23:58
They don't have the confidence in managing their money, but navigating debt is
24:02
especially if it's like credit card debt.
24:05
It's about looking at the credit cards with the most APRs, the annual
24:09
percentage rate, working with those.
24:12
And, you know, so you might have free credit cards, one at
24:15
24%, one at 20%, one at 18%.
24:19
The 18 percent one may have more on it than the one with the 24%.
24:24
But you're paying more interest on the one for 24%.
24:28
So for an example, what I teach people to do is to say you've got free credit
24:34
cards that total like six thousand pounds.
24:38
I would say, and you're paying like, all together with the free credit
24:42
cards, you're paying like 150 pounds a month towards the free credit
24:46
cards that you're in debt with.
24:48
I would say pay the minimum on the two credit cards with the less interest
24:53
rate and put the majority, so if you're paying 150 pounds over the free credit
24:58
cards, I would say pay a 120 - 125 on the one with the most with the highest
25:04
interest rate and pay the minimum on the two less interest rate, the
25:09
cards with the less interest rate.
25:12
Continue doing that until you pay off that first credit card.
25:16
Once you pay off that first credit card, then that frees up that money.
25:20
So instead of paying it over three credit cards, now you've got that
25:23
money to pay over two credit cards.
25:25
So you then go to the next credit card with the highest rate and you put the
25:30
majority, that same 150 on that credit card and the minimum on the less, with the
25:37
less interest rate and repeat that action.
25:40
That is a good way of navigating debt.
25:42
So aim to pay off the one with the highest interest rate first.
25:48
Absolutely.
25:49
And then go to the one underneath that next one.
25:53
Absolutely.
25:54
So like if you had three, as you said, three credit cards, so the final one that
25:58
you pay off would be the one with the least amount of interest, because then you
26:01
have that money and need to pull down that balance that you have accrued, interest
26:06
that you've accrued on that by not paying.
26:08
Absolutely.
26:09
And another way of navigating debt is, as I said, with credit cards.
26:12
Again, I'll talk about credit cards because that's one of the biggest
26:14
problems that I'm working with.
26:17
A lot of people is working with a 0 percent credit card.
26:20
So if you're eligible for a 0 percent credit card, once you're coming to
26:23
the end of the term and you've still got a balance on it, then you do
26:27
a balance transfer to another 0%.
26:29
So you're avoiding paying interest.
26:32
You just try and you just keep repeating that pattern until you obviously are in a
26:35
place where you're out of debt, you know?
26:39
Yeah.
26:40
That makes sense.
26:42
Because it's about trying to minimize the money that you're giving to the bank.
26:45
People just say, okay, this is, I'm in this debt and I
26:47
just, I'm paying what I can.
26:50
It's minimum payment and it's revolving debt.
26:53
It's like you're on a treadmill, but you're not going anywhere.
26:55
You're paying this money and also with people with loans and that or
26:58
mortgages about refinancing, but you need like a financial advisor because
27:02
it's obviously they need to be advised to be able to get a better product
27:06
if you can get a better product.
27:08
So before you get a better product, it's better best to work on your credit score
27:13
so that your credit is in a good place so that when you do launch out to see if
27:17
you can get a better rate for whatever financial product you've got, whether
27:21
that's a mortgage or a loan, whatever, you will get a better rate of interest and
27:26
you'll be paying the bank less interest.
27:27
So it's about using those tips and tricks just to navigate your way.
27:32
Because I don't want to give the bank, I mean, I paid off one of our mortgages,
27:35
a 25 year mortgage in 10 years.
27:38
Ooh.
27:40
By making overpayments, doubling up my payments on my mortgage to pay
27:45
it off so that I, you know, I saved over 14, 000 pounds in interest.
27:50
So you paid it towards the capital or you're putting it...
27:53
Towards the capital.
27:54
Okay.
27:55
Because I had that discussion with some people who say, no, take it
27:59
and pay it towards the interest.
28:01
No.
28:01
The
28:01
capital.
28:02
It's the principal.
28:03
That's what you're paying it to.
28:04
That is what you're paying the money to, to bring it down.
28:07
So these are the ways that, you know, that you can navigate your debt.
28:11
It's all about thinking like a bank, because a bank, as I said, its
28:14
number one goal is to make a profit.
28:15
And they are making a profit from a lot of people that don't
28:18
know how to manage credit.
28:20
Yes.
28:20
That's why when young people went to university, they was throwing those
28:24
credit cards at them because they knew they was away from home, didn't
28:28
have the parental guidance and advice.
28:32
They thought, I've never had this money before.
28:33
They was maxing out those credit cards and the banks took advantage of that.
28:37
Great advantage of them.
28:41
Whoa.
28:42
Wow.
28:42
So finally you talked about maximizing your money without a struggle.
28:48
What do you mean by that?
28:50
Yeah, so when I was a single parent although I didn't have
28:54
much money, I maximized it.
28:56
I made every penny and every pound or work for me.
29:00
And the reason I was able to do that is 'cause I was in control of my money.
29:04
I knew where every penny and every pound was going.
29:08
All the financial tycoons and the rich, the financially successful people
29:13
have some sort of financial statement.
29:16
They know where every pound and every penny was going.
29:19
I was watching a program called How The Other Half Live.
29:23
And there was a self-made multimillionaire.
29:25
He was worth like 66 million.
29:28
And he used his 0 percent credit card to fly to Australia on a first class flight.
29:34
And he was able to get a holiday from it using his credit card.
29:39
And he's a multimillionaire.
29:42
Ooh.
29:43
So he bought the ticket.
29:44
He bought the ticket with his credit card.
29:47
No, no . Because he had points because they give you different points.
29:51
So obviously the more you use it, the more points you get, whatever.
29:53
And, you know, he's been traveling for a while.
29:55
So he's racking up air miles.
29:57
So he's maximizing the bank's money, you know, because, you know, he's been
30:01
able to, and he's a multimillionaire.
30:04
So how much more us?
30:07
Absolutely.
30:07
So with me, I knew exactly every pound and every penny I had.
30:12
I mean, thankfully, when I was a single mother, I found a shop, a
30:15
local supermarket that was quite, you know, on the lowest scale.
30:19
And I was able to, like, buy all my weekly shopping for 20
30:23
for me and my three children.
30:25
So me and my children were eating cream cheese and smoked
30:28
salmon and bagels for breakfast.
30:31
By going to that, like a small...
30:34
Absolutely.
30:35
Supermarket.
30:36
We was like kings and queens and as I said, and...
30:40
as I worked in the bank, every year we got a bonus, and I took that bonus,
30:45
because I didn't want my children to see, like, you know, we had to, you
30:48
know, watching our pennies all the time.
30:51
I wanted to be able to give them a balance.
30:54
And as a result, the bonus that I got from my bank, I used that and
30:57
flew my children out every year.
31:00
So as I said, you know, they would have their rucksacks filled to the brim.
31:04
And it weren't with electrical toys or dollies.
31:07
It was with rice, biscuits, tea bags.
31:11
Do you know what I mean?
31:12
It was me being resourceful again, right?
31:14
Yeah.
31:14
So when we go to our destination, all we had to buy was meat and vegetables.
31:19
So you were going to like at out in those days, they
31:22
probably didn't have the Airbnb.
31:23
So you were going to like a...
31:25
Apartments.
31:26
Apartments, yeah.
31:27
I could only afford hotels three star.
31:30
I wouldn't go any lower than three Star, but it was like three Star.
31:33
So I had to do my own food.
31:34
It was always apartments.
31:36
Yeah.
31:36
So I'd have to cook my own food, but that was okay.
31:39
My priority and objective was to just fly my children out and show
31:44
them what life can really be.
31:45
So as I said, it weren't like to holidays in England.
31:48
It was like to the Caribbean and the whole of Europe, you know, you know,
31:52
they really did have a quality of life.
31:54
So I've done that.
31:56
And people have seen what I've done in my life and done for
31:59
my children as a single mother.
32:01
And that's how I want to financially empower.
32:03
It's not what you have.
32:05
It's what you do with what you have.
32:07
Knowledge is always required.
32:09
Yes, it's what you do with what you have.
32:12
Wow.
32:13
Whoa, whoa.
32:13
I always say this 30 minutes goes by so quickly and we've been talking
32:19
for a little over 30 minutes.
32:20
So this has been very helpful.
32:23
How can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about what
32:27
you do and how You can even help them.
32:29
'cause I know you have clients, but
32:31
Sure.
32:31
As a business owner, one is always looking for more clients.
32:35
Absolutely.
32:36
So my website is my name Norma Cassius.
32:41
I'm not sure if you could put that in the chat or whatever.
32:43
normacassius.com.
32:44
That's my website and my Instagram handle is think.like.a.bank.
32:55
At think.like.a.bank.
33:01
Like that.
33:01
That's creative.
33:03
Yes, very much so.
33:04
Very much so.
33:06
Are you on LinkedIn?
33:08
I'm on LinkedIn.
33:08
And that's Norma.
33:10
Cassius.
33:11
Okay.
33:11
Norma Cassius.
33:12
I mainly use Instagram at the moment.
33:14
That's where I am.
33:15
So shoot me a DM if you need any information.
33:18
If you wanted a consultation.
33:19
Financial therapy is the thing for a lot of people.
33:23
Just to get them, understand the psychology of money so they
33:26
are in the right mindset to be able to manage their money.
33:30
And, you know, not only teach them, but their family, their generation.
33:34
We need to stop this.
33:36
People of color, do you know what I mean, when it comes to money, I couldn't sit
33:39
down with my parents and discuss money.
33:40
They would say that's a big people's business, right?
33:43
That's not for you.
33:44
No, exactly.
33:46
But we need to break that cycle.
33:48
So break that generational trauma that, you know, we've been through a lot.
33:53
As in our community, haven't we?
33:55
And we can break that through knowledge because knowledge is power
33:59
and that's what i'm here to do to empower as many people as I can
34:03
. Yes, so, you know, we always have people that join the show
34:07
and who are in the audience.
34:08
They'll have an opportunity to even ask you more questions about exactly
34:12
what you talked about and you know how they can, you know, contact you because
34:17
I know you're global, even though you're based in England, you can still
34:21
talk with someone virtually and...
34:24
Absolutely.
34:25
Help them with whatever questions or difficulties they may have overcoming
34:31
the trauma, the money trauma that they may have suffered in the youth.
34:38
So we'll definitely give them a chance to speak with you.
34:41
And for those of you who are watching online this program.
34:46
If you'd like to be a guest on my show, reach out to me on my website
34:50
which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
34:52
I'm also on LinkedIn as Paula Okonneh.
34:55
I'm on Instagram and my handle there is at chat_experts_podcast and I
35:02
always hesitate because for some reason my handle always confuses me,
35:08
so I don't want you guys confused.
35:10
And I'm on Facebook as Paula Okonneh.
35:14
Thank you so much, Norma, for being on the show.
35:18
And believe it or not, I got in touch with Norma because I
35:22
listened to her on a podcast.
35:24
And once I heard what she was talking about, I was like, Oh,
35:27
I'd love to have her on my show.
35:29
I reached out to her and she said, Yes.
35:31
So please reach out to me because somebody may hear you on the podcast
35:36
and your life story may change.
35:40
Thank you, Norma.
35:41
You're welcome.
35:42
Thank you.
35:42
Thanks to all who have listened and we are going to talk to you live
35:48
to those who are in the audience.
35:50
Thank you.