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Hamster Rescue & Ethical Care: Pudding’s Journey · Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond

0:00
Hey Sash, how are you?
0:01
Hey, I'm good, how are you?
0:02
Yeah, not too bad.
0:04
Alright, thank you.
0:05
Yeah.
0:05
I think so, I think so.
0:08
I'm good too.
0:09
We're recording on a Saturday today, obviously, so I feel a bit more chilled.
0:15
Yeah, I've had a nice weekend.
0:16
My mum's been here.
0:17
Pre-Mother's Day visit.
0:18
Yes, lovely.
0:19
Yeah, Mother's Day tomorrow.
0:21
And are you doing anything to celebrate as a cat mum?
0:24
As a pet parent.
0:25
Yeah, as a pet parent.
0:27
Yeah, hopefully they've got me flowers, chocolates, taken me out for a meal.
0:32
Yeah, same here.
0:32
I'm sure Betty's got me a lovely present.
0:35
Yeah, husbands, can you hear this?
0:37
Yeah.
0:37
Hint, hint.
0:38
I know my husband is in the other room, but maybe if he is listening,
0:43
this is his final chance to get something.
0:46
Yeah.
0:47
Yeah, yeah.
0:48
Well, today's podcast is all about Hamster Rescue with the lovely Laura,
0:53
who is a friend of mine, a very dear friend who loves hamsters,
0:58
is involved in Ethical Hamster Rescue, but is just very much a pet person like we are,
1:04
and very passionate about animals and pets.
1:06
So I'm looking forward to speaking to her later
1:09
and learning a bit more about her little hamster pudding,
1:12
but also, yeah, some of the things that she's been involved in.
1:15
And hopefully she can share some tips and advice on anyone listening
1:19
who is thinking about getting a hamster
1:21
or wants to make improvements to their hamster's life or things.
1:25
Yeah.
1:26
Easy things they can do to give their hamster a really great life.
1:29
So yeah, excited about that.
1:30
That'd be lovely.
1:31
Yeah, and our first guest, which will be nice.
1:33
See how this one goes and get more on.
1:37
Indeed, indeed.
1:38
Long may that continue.
1:39
So yeah, and how's Weaver and Murray doing this week?
1:42
They're all right.
1:43
They're good.
1:43
They've had, we've had a week of sort of pooey bums.
1:46
I'm not quite sure where it's come from.
1:49
It suddenly just sort of appears.
1:52
We've got one of them settled.
1:53
The other ones, Weaver's just still a little bit kind of loose.
1:56
But we've tried her on some Procholine, which is like a pre-probiotic.
2:02
She sort of likes it, but doesn't overly love it.
2:04
So I'm doing a bit of research into some other supplements and probiotics.
2:08
And I've tried a few before, but they just don't like the taste.
2:11
So I've done a little bit of research and found some that I might give a go.
2:14
But yeah, the sort of supplements for cats seems really hard to come by.
2:18
There's such a good range for dogs, but the cat's ones are less available.
2:23
So I think there's a real gap in the market there.
2:25
It's interesting.
2:26
And so are these tablets to kind of settle tummies?
2:30
Yeah, settle tummies, help with a bit of bloating.
2:33
She's got a little bit of wind at the moment.
2:36
Do you think I've ever heard a cat?
2:38
No, exactly.
2:40
Me neither until I got Weaver.
2:42
Neither until I got Weaver.
2:43
Yeah.
2:43
Windy Weaver.
2:44
Windy Weaver.
2:45
Oh bless her.
2:46
Give her a new nickname.
2:47
Yeah.
2:47
So she's a bit farty at the moment.
2:51
Getting better.
2:52
It's getting better.
2:52
But yeah, I'm going to try these pre and probiotics and see if they work.
2:56
The ones out there at the moment are quite like medical and a bit scary looking.
3:00
They're not very warm and reassuring.
3:02
So there's a gap out there, people.
3:04
Yeah.
3:05
Yeah.
3:05
So we'll see.
3:06
Sometimes you keep buying these things and you think, what is this?
3:10
Like am I?
3:12
Yeah.
3:12
And she's fussy with flavors as well.
3:14
And I think there needs to be a few more different flavors.
3:17
We'll see.
3:17
I've got these new ones.
3:18
I'm going to try them, see what happens.
3:20
How's Betty getting along anyway?
3:21
What's going down with her at the moment?
3:23
Yeah, there's a bit of a poo theme here, I think, this week.
3:26
Great.
3:27
Little Betty is, yeah, we've had a few accidents with poopy, as I call it.
3:34
One of the symptoms of pug myelopathy is a bit of incontinence.
3:42
Okay, so it's related.
3:44
Yeah.
3:44
Not saying that she has got that because we're still waiting for the neurologist appointment
3:49
to diagnose it properly.
3:50
But yeah, that is one of the things that can happen.
3:55
And it seems to be happening to Betty's bottom in that she is doing a poo without realizing.
4:01
So we've never had any accidents really with Betty unless she has been unwell.
4:06
But this is like a solid poo.
4:09
Sorry to overshare.
4:10
But it's like her normal poo kind of coming out without her realizing.
4:16
So she was on the bed yesterday morning, as we normally are.
4:21
You know, I'm getting up, getting ready.
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She's on the bed.
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She'll wait there until we go off for our morning walk once I'm up and running.
4:27
And it just kind of came out.
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And I think she just looked so disgusted and so, in my view, so sad because it was like,
4:36
what's this?
4:38
Why is this here?
4:39
She kind of moved over to the other side of the bed.
4:42
And you can't be cross because it's clearly just happening.
4:45
And then I sort of picked her up to take her out and more kind of slipped out.
4:51
So just having to watch that at the minute.
4:54
And I think for me now, I might have to change.
4:56
Well, I will change my routines rather than getting up, getting ready and then taking
5:00
Betty out.
5:01
I think I'm just going to sling some clothes on as soon as I wake up and take her out.
5:04
So yeah, she's not waiting too long.
5:08
Bless her.
5:09
It's a good way to approach it.
5:10
Yeah, exactly.
5:11
Just a small change.
5:13
But touch wood with the wee wee.
5:14
It's OK.
5:15
She's not.
5:16
Are you worried about it?
5:16
Will you go and talk to the vet or are you just going to sort of play it out until this
5:20
neurologist appointment then?
5:21
I'm not worried as in, you know, I was kind of expecting it or have been expecting it
5:26
ever since I was reading up on it and some of the things that if your pug does have this
5:31
myelopathy, like what can happen?
5:33
So if anything, it confirms my suspicions that that's what she she has.
5:38
But we might have to get some little nappies just to be on the safe side.
5:43
But we're still doing the physio.
5:44
So we're doing that weekly at Battersea and I've got some physio exercises to do with
5:50
her at least three times a week at home.
5:53
So maybe in the next episode I can talk you through those and just share some of the things
5:57
that we're trying.
5:59
Still early days, but they did say if I do commit to it and make sure that I do it three
6:02
times a week, I should see some improvements as well as with their support and that the
6:09
appointment that we have for the laser therapy.
6:11
Amazing.
6:12
Thing is, it's just getting the right time to do it with Betty, because if it's near
6:16
dinner time, she gets too excited and then won't focus.
6:19
And then like now she's snoring away alongside me.
6:22
And then you kind of think, oh, I don't really want to wake her and start getting her to
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do exercises because she just enjoys chilling out.
6:28
So it hasn't quite worked out yet.
6:31
When is the right time?
6:33
I mean, for me, I love going to the gym on an evening, but, you know, she's just got
6:37
food on her mind.
6:39
I can feel her.
6:40
Yeah.
6:40
Sleep or food.
6:42
Yeah.
6:43
Yeah.
6:43
So there you go.
6:44
So we're still trying that.
6:46
Yeah.
6:46
Good luck.
6:47
But we shall see.
6:48
Yeah.
6:49
Good luck with that.
6:50
Yeah.
6:50
Thank you.
6:51
Thank you.
6:52
And then I was at Crofts last weekend.
6:57
So how did you find it?
6:59
Yeah, I have mixed feelings, if I'm fair.
7:03
Is that the first time you've been?
7:04
Yeah, I was a first timer, so I really didn't know what to expect.
7:08
Yeah.
7:10
But I just bought a standard day ticket.
7:14
I wasn't there for the whole weekend and just went on the Sunday.
7:18
And I know there's been some controversy this year about the call for the winner to
7:24
lose the award, the award that they got with their dog for an animal cruelty conviction from
7:30
the past.
7:31
And I haven't read up too much on that.
7:34
So I'm going to probably focus on that, you know, in terms of what to say about that.
7:39
Yeah.
7:39
I mean, I went along for two reasons, really.
7:42
One was to support some of the animal charities that I'm involved with as a volunteer.
7:48
So Pets of Therapy were there and they had a stand to promote the work that they do.
7:53
And I'm a Pets of Therapy volunteer.
7:55
So it's nice to go along and chat to them and see their stand and
7:59
see that they were getting lots of people coming up,
8:03
wanting to know more about the charity and the dog.
8:05
So that was great.
8:06
And I actually also wanted to do some shopping, Vessie,
8:09
because I've been kind of on the hunt for some hydration drinks or some hydration products.
8:16
Because I think since she's been on the pain relief for also,
8:20
because I think I'd mentioned before, she might have the myelopathy, but also some arthritis.
8:25
So she is on some pain relief for the arthritis.
8:28
And I think since she's been taking that, she's not been as keen to drink water.
8:32
I don't know why.
8:34
Might be a coincidence, but she's definitely not drinking as much as she was.
8:38
So I was hoping I could find some products that I could give to her that she would think is food.
8:45
And actually, I did find a chicken broth powder, which you just mix up with water.
8:51
And I think she thinks that's like having a soup or something.
8:54
So that was good.
8:55
I was just on the lookout for some products and seeing what was out there for doggies.
9:00
I didn't actually watch any of the shows, but it is an overwhelming day.
9:05
It's busy, loud, lots of dogs.
9:08
So if you are a dog lover...
9:09
So people take their dogs, I suppose they would, wouldn't they?
9:12
Well, yeah, you can't actually take your dog as just a general member of the public.
9:17
If you are there to compete and you're bringing your dog as part of the shows, then you can.
9:23
So there's lots of people wandering around with dogs.
9:25
And then there were stands for different dog breeds.
9:28
And I think if you are interested in getting a dog and you want to learn more and educate
9:34
yourself about the breeds, then that is a good place to start because it talks about their needs.
9:40
And yeah, just things to be aware of.
9:42
So that was handy.
9:43
I mean, I would really have liked to have seen a bit more of a focus on rescue dogs.
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And I don't think there was as many charities there promoting that.
9:53
And, you know, that sort of adopt, don't shop message.
9:57
So yeah, maybe something for Cross to think about next time.
10:02
Yeah, well, I mean, it's good to know that there's other things going on other than the
10:06
shows and the category type stuff, because I wasn't aware that there was so much of a
10:11
sort of promotion behind that with products and services and charities and groups that were there
10:16
as well.
10:17
So knowing that Pets As Therapy were there and some other sort of charity groups like that,
10:20
it's good.
10:21
At least there's kind of like an array of different stuff around for people.
10:26
Yeah, it's good.
10:27
I mean, I got chatting to a charity called Pet Blood Bank.
10:30
Oh, we talked about this.
10:33
Yes, we did.
10:34
Which funnily enough, I then saw them and went over and had a chat.
10:37
So they were recruiting dogs to be life-saving blood donors.
10:41
There's particular breeds that make a good blood donor.
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So I also asked them if they'd be interested to have a chat on this podcast in the future.
10:50
I think they were happy for me to approach them anyway.
10:54
So I had a chat to them.
10:55
And then also there was a wonderful charity called Thin Blue Paw Foundation
11:00
working with retired police dogs.
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So I got to spend a bit of time with them.
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And also West Midlands Police were there and met some of their police sniffer dogs.
11:10
So very excitable, energetic spaniels.
11:13
And then also medical detection dogs, which was amazing.
11:16
They have bio dogs, so sniffing out different diseases
11:20
as sort of part of kind of diagnosing conditions.
11:22
And then also assistance dogs for people with specific medical conditions like diabetes.
11:27
So yeah, really, really enlightening.
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I ran out of time, but in a way, a day was enough.
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But yeah.
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So good.
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Well, we've made some great contacts there
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because obviously it'd be great to get some other guests in.
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And I know I've been sort of talking and reaching out to a few people.
11:44
So we've got a few lined up for future episodes, which will be amazing.
11:48
So tune in, everybody.
11:49
The door's just going.
11:50
Sash, let me just, let me pause.
11:52
Hold on.
11:53
A lady's just bought me a bread and butter pudding, a neighbour.
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That's so kind.
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That's sweet.
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I need some bread and butter pudding in my life right now.
12:01
Something just comforting.
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Comfort food.
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I think we will, we'll stop there and then welcome our guest for this podcast.
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A lovely friend of mine called Laura,
12:11
who does a lot of work with ethical hamster rescue charities.
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She's a hamster mom to a wonderful hamster called Pudding.
12:22
And like Natalie and I, just obsessed with animals,
12:25
loves animals, been a lifelong animal lover.
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Really pleased to have you here today, Laura.
12:31
Welcome, Laura.
12:32
Welcome, Laura.
12:34
Thank you for having me.
12:36
Yeah, you're our first ever guest on the Pause Between Us podcast.
12:40
No pressure then.
12:41
No pressure.
12:42
No pressure.
12:44
You might not have any more.
12:47
You are always welcome.
12:49
I love to talk about animals, so I'm very grateful to be here.
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Yeah, so just tell us, what is it about animals that you love?
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I honestly don't know where it started, really.
12:58
I think I've always loved them and it was changing my family because
13:01
my immediate family were not animal lovers at all.
13:03
But it was always just there for me.
13:06
I just always loved animals.
13:08
And as soon as I was able to, I started volunteering at a vet.
13:12
And that kind of solidified my love of animals, small animals.
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But also the practice that I volunteered with was a farm animal practice.
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So I got to go and see the cows and all things like that.
13:24
So yeah, just all animals.
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And I think it's just, there's something calming about being with animals.
13:29
There's something really lovely in being able to give them the care they need
13:34
and what they give back to you in terms of their kind of affection.
13:37
It's a very uncomplicated kind of love and relationship.
13:41
I just, sometimes I prefer their company to humans.
13:44
I love humans too, but sometimes the company of animals is just
13:48
calming and just really lovely.
13:50
So yeah, I just, I love them all.
13:52
And I would love to have a massive house and a giant garden
13:55
with a huge menagerie of small and large animals.
13:58
So that's...
14:00
Wouldn't we all?
14:01
I think we share that dream with you, Laura.
14:03
Yeah, we do.
14:04
As someone who lives in a flat,
14:05
I would love to have a big house with a garden where I could have lots of animals.
14:09
And you can come and visit them and I can visit yours.
14:12
Yeah, I know.
14:13
I want to get a garden that I can have like a rescue donkey and a sheep
14:16
and all chickens and ducks.
14:18
That'd be so amazing.
14:19
I'd love a cow as well.
14:20
You need to do it.
14:22
A cow, yeah?
14:24
I went to a sanctuary once and saw,
14:26
I think it was called Bill the Blind Cow, and he was gorgeous.
14:30
And he was, it was just beautiful, big thing.
14:32
He was just, I'm being looked after by this rescue center, which was so cute.
14:36
Oh, that's so lovely.
14:37
Yeah, that is.
14:38
And you know, I know you well, Laura,
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and I know you have a real loving, nurturing side.
14:43
And you're currently a mom to a hamster called Pudding.
14:47
So tell us about Pudding.
14:49
So Pudding, I don't know exactly how old she is.
14:53
She's probably around a year old.
14:54
She was a rescue.
14:56
She is a Russian dwarf hamster.
14:58
And she was very feisty when I first got her from the rescue.
15:02
I got her in August last year.
15:04
She was very feisty, very keen with her teeth, shall we say?
15:08
And yeah, very flighty.
15:10
But we have now become very good friends.
15:13
It took a while to kind of get her tame,
15:15
but now she'll kind of come running when she hears my voice
15:17
and she'll kind of climb up and come out for time in her playpen.
15:21
And yeah, she's very greedy, very active, and she loves to burrow.
15:26
And she loves flowers.
15:27
She loves kind of foraging in dried flowers.
15:30
Yeah, so she's a joy.
15:32
She really is.
15:32
She's really lovely.
15:34
And it's nice to see her sort of come on a journey
15:36
from being very afraid and very bitey
15:38
to being a very friendly little dwarf.
15:42
Yeah.
15:43
Do you still have the hamster cam?
15:45
I do.
15:46
I do have a hamster cam on all the time.
15:48
Keep an eye on her.
15:49
Yeah.
15:51
Overnight, make sure she's active, make sure everything's okay.
15:54
And obviously, if I go away for one night or something,
15:56
I can just keep an eye on her and make sure she's okay.
15:59
So yeah, I always have hamster cam on permanently now.
16:03
And you can now get them.
16:05
There's a company who have made special attachments
16:09
for the most kind of common ethical cages.
16:11
And we can come back to that.
16:12
But where you can attach a certain type of camera to the lid of the cage
16:15
so you can kind of see the whole enclosure.
16:17
So I'm thinking about investing in one of those
16:18
in the not too distant future.
16:20
So yeah, definitely always spying on her and making sure she's okay.
16:23
What a great idea.
16:24
I had Russian dwarf hamsters in my day, Laura.
16:27
They were my hamster of choice.
16:29
I love that.
16:30
They are absolutely my hamster of choice.
16:32
I think she's maybe my 13th or 14th Russian dwarf hamster,
16:36
something like that.
16:37
Yeah.
16:38
But yeah, Russian dwarfs have always been my favorite.
16:42
I mean, I love a Syrian hamster.
16:44
There's Roborovsky dwarfs as well.
16:46
They're very cute.
16:47
Would absolutely have any of them.
16:48
But I do have a special place in my heart for a Russian dwarf.
16:51
Me too.
16:52
It's brought back memories.
16:54
They're so lovely.
16:55
I didn't even realize there was a difference between different breeds of hamsters.
16:59
Yeah, the three most common ones that you get.
17:01
So the Syrians are kind of the bigger hamsters
17:04
that kind of most people had when they were a kid.
17:06
That's usually the Syrian hamsters.
17:08
And then, yeah, you've got two.
17:09
Well, actually, you've got three.
17:10
You've got three types, most common types of dwarf hamsters.
17:13
You've got the Russian dwarf, which is what Pudding is.
17:15
You've got Roborovskys, which are even smaller,
17:17
and they have these really cute little white eyebrows,
17:19
and they are super fast.
17:21
And you've got the Chinese dwarf hamster.
17:23
They're less common, but you can still find them.
17:26
And they're kind of slightly longer, and they've got slightly longer tails as well.
17:29
So yeah, they're the main ones that you find in the UK.
17:32
What is it about the Russian dwarfs then that you really like?
17:34
I think it's just because they're tiny, but they're not so tiny.
17:38
They can become very tame.
17:40
They're handleable.
17:41
But there's just something about the way their eyes are in their head.
17:44
They're kind of big eyes, and they're just very round.
17:46
Like, the way they sit, they look like little, like, fluff balls.
17:50
There's just something about them that just has always...
17:53
I don't know.
17:53
Just, I don't know.
17:54
You know, some animals, you're just like, oh, you're so cute.
17:56
I just love you so much.
17:57
That's just, Russian dwarfs have always done that for me.
17:59
And I think they also just get a rough deal.
18:01
I think people think because they're so small,
18:04
they don't need much space, and they don't need much.
18:07
And I think they've always just had a bit of a rough deal, the dwarf hamster.
18:11
I mean, Syrian hamsters do, too.
18:12
Do not get me wrong.
18:13
But I think, yeah, I think there's just something about their little faces
18:16
and their little round bodies that I just love.
18:18
They're so cute.
18:19
I want to come down to visit you now and have a little...
18:22
Have a little play.
18:23
A little cuddle with Pudding.
18:24
Always welcome.
18:25
You're always welcome.
18:26
Thank you.
18:27
I mean, you touched on there about things to sort of consider for hamster ownership.
18:32
What are the other things that some of our listeners maybe need to bear in mind
18:36
if they're thinking of getting a Russian dwarf or any hamster?
18:39
Yeah, I mean, I think I got my first hamster when I was maybe like 11 or 12,
18:44
maybe slightly older.
18:45
And the research into them and the care that they need
18:49
has moved on a huge amount since then.
18:51
And I think there's a lot of myths about hamsters and hamster ownership
18:55
that are still out there.
18:57
And a lot of misinformation, even from pet shops,
19:00
about what it is that hamsters need.
19:01
I think quite often they're sold as starter pets and stuff like that.
19:05
Sensitive, and they do have quite a high degree of need.
19:08
And they do need a lot more space than I think people realize.
19:12
So there's a lot of organizations out there that have done research.
19:16
And actually, a lot of the research into what we call ethical hamster care.
19:20
So like the gold standard of hamster care now in kind of the 2020s
19:25
comes out of Germany, actually.
19:26
And there's an organization in Germany that have set kind of minimum ethical standards
19:31
for hamster care.
19:32
And it's kind of based on evidence-based research,
19:34
looking at what hamsters need to not be stressed and to be happy.
19:38
And that means that the cage requirements now are so big.
19:43
So I think a lot of people think,
19:44
oh, I can get this small hamster cage and pop it in the corner of a room.
19:46
But actually now, the ethical minimum standard for a hamster cage
19:50
now is 100 centimeters in length by 50 centimeters in depth
19:54
and at least 50 centimeters tall.
19:56
So it's an awful lot bigger.
19:58
You're looking like, I think the cage I've got is nearly 120.
20:02
So you're looking at, it's big.
20:03
It is big.
20:04
And when people see it, they're like, whoa.
20:06
Like, I can't believe how big that is.
20:08
But that's what's been shown to kind of reduce the stress.
20:11
They also need all of that space to kind of display their natural behaviors.
20:16
And that's, you know, in the kind of animal welfare space,
20:19
you know, an animal's ability to display its natural behaviors
20:21
is all what welfare is about.
20:23
And so, and that means, you know, hamsters in the wild run miles at night.
20:28
They need to move around.
20:30
They have very bad, they have bad eyesight anyway.
20:33
But they're not good at seeing depth at all.
20:35
So a hamster will quite happily leap from your hand
20:37
because it's got no idea that that's dangerous
20:39
because it can't really tell how high it is.
20:41
So all of these cages that you get with all of these multiple levels
20:44
actually aren't great for them
20:45
because they'll just throw themselves off
20:47
because they don't have that depth fear.
20:49
They can't sense height.
20:51
So what the recommendation is, is kind of that floor space unbroken.
20:54
You don't need the levels.
20:55
You just need that floor space unbroken.
20:58
And obviously in the wild, they live underground.
20:59
So they love to move.
21:01
And so you need to provide them with a depth of bedding
21:04
where they can create burrows
21:05
and a type of bedding that you can create burrows in.
21:09
I think the minimum requirement, they say,
21:10
is about six inches of bedding across the whole cage.
21:13
And some areas should be deeper.
21:14
So like even up to like 10 inches.
21:16
And, you know, some of the hamsters I've had in the past,
21:19
when I first get them, they won't burrow.
21:20
And you think, oh, am I providing all of this bedding?
21:23
And they're not burrowing in it.
21:24
And then suddenly they'll start,
21:25
it's like they find their natural instinct to do it.
21:27
And then they'll start burrowing.
21:30
And there's so many other kind of considerations
21:33
to let them have their natural behavior,
21:35
like providing them with dried leaves and flowers
21:38
and seeds to forage,
21:39
because that's what they would do in the wild.
21:41
Providing them lots of places to hide
21:43
because they're a prey species.
21:45
So they want to be kind of hiding.
21:47
So we talk about in the kind of hamster community,
21:49
if you like these sprays,
21:51
which are like the long stems of like seeds.
21:55
So like millet, which you give to birds,
21:57
stuff like that.
21:57
Wheat sprays, oat sprays,
22:00
all of these things that you kind of hear about,
22:02
you can provide them as kind of coverage,
22:04
but also as food for them to eat.
22:06
So they'll kind of climb these sprays and eat them.
22:08
So all of this stuff that just allows them
22:11
to display their natural behaviors and feel safe.
22:14
And then obviously a hamster wheel.
22:16
We still, you know,
22:17
that's still absolutely the recommendation
22:18
because there's no way in any cage
22:20
they're going to be able to run
22:21
as far as they would in a night.
22:22
But the difference between, you know,
22:24
if I look back when I first got a hamster
22:27
is the size of wheel that we would recommend.
22:29
So a hamster should be able to run with a flat back.
22:32
So you're looking at,
22:34
so I think my, for small dwarf hamsters,
22:36
which Pudding, she is quite small.
22:38
I think the diameter of the wheel
22:40
has to be 21 centimeters.
22:41
For a Syrian hamster, I think, you know,
22:43
you're kind of looking at up to 30 centimeters.
22:45
So these are huge wheel.
22:47
They need to be able to run in
22:48
so their back isn't bent
22:49
because otherwise they can end up
22:50
in later life with bent back.
22:52
So a lot of the cages you get
22:53
come with very small wheels,
22:55
which, you know,
22:55
which will be bad for their back.
22:57
So there are so many considerations
22:58
that I don't think that people realize
23:01
because, you know,
23:02
those kind of colorful cages
23:03
with all the tubes and everything
23:05
are still out there,
23:05
but really they don't allow the hamster
23:07
to display its natural behavior.
23:08
And so it's not,
23:10
it's not what's recommended anymore.
23:11
So things have really,
23:12
have really moved on.
23:13
And if I look back at what my care was like
23:15
when I was a teenager,
23:16
it's very different from what I'm doing now.
23:18
Yeah, you just have to try and do your best.
23:20
That's so helpful, Laura.
23:21
Like just those small little things
23:23
just to make people aware of that
23:24
because like, yeah, you're right.
23:25
I mean, I had hamsters when I was a kid
23:26
and I had a fairly big enclosure,
23:29
but I feel guilty now for not doing more,
23:31
but like it's without education.
23:33
And I think that's what we need to do
23:34
is like teach people just little things.
23:36
It's not about preaching,
23:37
but it's about just educating, isn't it?
23:39
Yeah, it really is.
23:40
It's about coming at it
23:41
from a place of compassion.
23:42
You know, I have similarly felt guilty
23:44
about the care I gave in the past,
23:45
but I was doing my best
23:46
with the knowledge I had at the time.
23:48
And I think a lot of people are,
23:49
you know, given advice,
23:51
which doesn't align with this.
23:53
And, you know, we're talking about,
23:54
you know, kind of we call it
23:56
like ethical hamster care.
23:57
And people don't know.
23:58
And people are doing their best.
24:00
People, you know, love their animals.
24:01
They're trying to do the best by them.
24:02
But if they don't know,
24:04
then, you know, they can't change.
24:06
And it's not cheap.
24:07
I think that's the other thing
24:08
that people think about hamsters.
24:09
Oh, it's kind of a cheap animal to have.
24:11
I mean, they're not really.
24:13
They're not, you know,
24:14
if you look at the enclosures,
24:15
some of the enclosures are really expensive.
24:17
There are cheaper alternatives.
24:19
There are things that you can do.
24:20
You need to provide
24:21
the right kind of bedding as well.
24:22
And that can become expensive now
24:24
because a lot of the sawdust
24:27
they sell in pet shops
24:29
or the wood chips are made from pine,
24:31
which is high in a chemical called phenols.
24:34
And hamsters have very
24:35
sensitive respiratory systems.
24:36
And actually, it's recommended
24:38
that you don't use that
24:38
because it can lead to respiratory problems.
24:41
So you have to look for safe alternatives.
24:42
There are some safe wood beddings out there
24:45
that you can use.
24:45
But I personally use paper bedding,
24:47
but it's very expensive.
24:50
And then, you know, you've got vet fees.
24:52
Hamsters also can't get wet.
24:53
To wash themselves, they need sand.
24:54
So you have to provide a big sand bath for them
24:56
to kind of roll around in to keep them clean.
24:58
The sand isn't that cheap either.
25:00
So it adds up, you know, and vet bills.
25:02
You know, people are sometimes like to me,
25:04
I can't believe how much
25:04
you've spent on your hamster.
25:05
And I'm like, well, of course I am.
25:07
She's a sentient being.
25:08
She needs that care.
25:09
Of course, I've spent that.
25:09
So it can very quickly add up.
25:12
So they're not cheap either.
25:13
Wow. You have so much knowledge.
25:15
It's so impressive.
25:16
It's great.
25:17
Oh, you know me.
25:17
I love information.
25:18
I like to fold down a rabbit hole
25:20
and find out everything that I can
25:22
and try and do my best.
25:22
But I think with animals,
25:24
I've always been like this.
25:24
I've always tried to read all the books
25:26
and do the best that I can.
25:27
So hamsters are no exception.
25:29
It comes across.
25:30
And what would be a good starting point
25:32
for someone then?
25:33
They're listening today
25:33
and they're thinking, oh, wow,
25:34
this is really informative.
25:36
I want to know more.
25:37
Are there any kind of websites
25:38
or books or resources you'd recommend?
25:40
Yeah, there's a really good website
25:42
called hamsterwelfare.com,
25:45
which has got a list of kind of requirements.
25:48
It's got lists of the cages out there
25:50
that people can buy.
25:52
Meet the standard requirements.
25:53
It talks about the depth of bedding,
25:55
talks about how best to feed them,
25:57
what kind of bedding is safe,
25:58
what isn't, all of that kind of stuff.
26:00
And I think it was,
26:01
I'm pretty sure it was this website
26:02
that was started by somebody
26:04
who bought a Syrian hamster
26:05
and had all the best intentions
26:09
and was using a lot of stuff
26:11
that's readily available.
26:12
There are a lot of unsafe items on sale
26:14
and was buying that kind of
26:16
fluffy hamster bedding,
26:19
which I have also used in the past.
26:20
But actually it turns out
26:22
that hamsters quite often eat it
26:23
and it can't be digested
26:24
and it can block their digestive system.
26:27
And that's what happened to his hamster.
26:31
And he kind of went on a journey
26:32
of understanding and got a vet
26:34
to understand whether it was the bedding
26:36
that had got stuck
26:36
and then kind of learned more
26:38
about kind of ethical hamster care
26:39
and what products are safe and what aren't
26:41
and wanted a resource out there
26:42
for other people to be able to go to,
26:45
to find out all of this information
26:47
because he felt like
26:48
he could have avoided the situation
26:50
if he'd known.
26:51
Because like we say,
26:52
you don't know what you don't know.
26:54
So it's a really great resource
26:56
for everything out there.
26:57
And it lists a whole list of places
27:00
to rescue hamsters from,
27:01
to adopt hamsters from.
27:03
But yeah, all of the safe information on there.
27:05
So it's a great resource
27:06
if people are interested
27:07
in getting sort of started with a setup.
27:09
And it's got great pictures and videos
27:11
of good cage setups in there as well
27:13
that you can take inspiration from.
27:15
That's handy.
27:15
So something quite practical.
27:17
Yeah, definitely.
27:18
I think my Murray can hear this talk of rodents
27:21
because he keeps walking in front of the camera.
27:23
He's like, where's that hamster for my snack?
27:25
He's like back and forth,
27:27
back and forth, bless him.
27:28
Yeah, he definitely seems keen, doesn't he?
27:30
He's not normally here.
27:31
He's picked up on something.
27:33
I mean, in terms of the hamster rescue side
27:36
that you're involved in,
27:37
are these some of the reasons
27:38
why hamsters end up in care?
27:41
Because people don't appreciate
27:43
what's involved in looking after them.
27:45
They don't realise there's costs
27:46
for vet bills and for, you know,
27:49
all the food and the cages and everything.
27:51
Absolutely.
27:52
I mean, yeah, there's a huge number of reasons,
27:55
I think, why hamsters end up in rescue.
27:57
I think, you know, if I'm being really honest,
27:59
one of them is that they get bought for children
28:01
and the children get bored
28:02
and they don't want to look after them anymore.
28:04
That's a common reason that we see.
28:06
One of the other ones is,
28:07
so this is another recommendation
28:10
that changed from when I was younger
28:11
was that all hamsters should be kept alone.
28:14
So Syrian hamsters always had to be kept alone
28:16
because they fight.
28:17
They're very territorial.
28:18
But they used to advise
28:19
that you could keep dwarf hamsters in groups,
28:21
but they don't recommend that anymore.
28:23
They're actually much happier on their own.
28:24
In the wild, they've got miles and miles
28:26
to get away from each other
28:27
if they're annoyed in a cage.
28:29
They don't have that same space.
28:30
So it's definitely recommended
28:31
to keep them on their own,
28:32
but the advice sometimes is still out there.
28:34
So what happens is you get
28:35
particularly dwarf hamsters kept in groups
28:37
and they are, the different sexes are not separated
28:41
and you end up with huge listeners
28:42
and then you end up with people who,
28:44
and they don't separate the babies early enough
28:46
so then the babies get pregnant.
28:47
So you end up with these people
28:49
with huge numbers of hamsters
28:52
that they then can't cope with.
28:53
So that's part of another reason
28:56
that they come into kind of rescues.
28:59
Yeah, so there's a huge variety of reasons,
29:01
but there are so many hamsters that need homes
29:04
and some of the rescues will look on places
29:06
where hamsters are being sold
29:07
on things like Facebook or Gumtree
29:09
and they will try and bring the hamsters
29:11
into an ethical rescue
29:12
so that we can make sure they're going to a good home
29:14
with a good size cage.
29:15
So yeah, there's lots of different routes in.
29:17
It feels to me like there needs to be more done
29:19
at the pet shop kind of end the retail
29:22
and because it feels like the responsibility
29:24
needs to be on them.
29:25
Is there anything that's happening?
29:26
Like, is there any kind of movement
29:28
to campaign towards that at all?
29:31
Yeah, there are lots of, you know,
29:33
adopt, don't shop, rescue, not retail.
29:36
There are a lot of kind of things out there
29:37
and I definitely think it stands true for hamsters,
29:40
particularly for those small animals.
29:42
I think especially while there's a lot of unsuitable
29:45
cages out there,
29:46
but also similar to some of the issues
29:49
they have in like dog breeding.
29:51
A lot of the hamsters for retail
29:54
come from rodent mills
29:55
and they're not very well bred
29:58
and we see what we see in lots of other species as well,
30:01
which is health problems coming through
30:04
because they're not being bred correctly.
30:06
There's lots of inherent issues in dwarf species,
30:08
especially with diabetes and eye problems
30:12
and lots of other things.
30:13
So I think it's really important.
30:15
For the health of the animal.
30:17
And I think it's really difficult
30:18
as someone who loves owning pets
30:20
and loves owning hamsters to say,
30:21
you know, stop selling them.
30:22
I could understand why people don't want that
30:23
because then you're like,
30:24
well, how am I going to get my hamsters?
30:26
But the reality is these animals are not,
30:28
they're not happy
30:29
and they're not always going to good homes.
30:31
And there are so many hamsters that need rescuing
30:33
that we need to fix that problem first, you know,
30:36
and find better ways of getting them from breeders
30:39
so that we're not breeding all of these animals
30:41
that have complications.
30:42
I kind of don't like the arrogance
30:44
of us as a human species.
30:46
This kind of really sad to,
30:48
we need to just be more open
30:50
to learning about our pets
30:52
and our animal companions
30:53
and make life better for them
30:55
and not just for us
30:56
and not convenient for us.
30:57
I think there's so much more we need to,
30:59
we've got more responsibility.
31:01
We're an intelligent species.
31:03
We've been around a long time.
31:04
We need to do better than we do now.
31:05
I completely agree.
31:06
And I think that I remember thinking to myself
31:08
at one point, you know,
31:09
as much as I would love to own hamsters forever,
31:11
I'd rather never own one again
31:13
and make sure that they're not suffering
31:16
because we're breeding them to be kept as pets
31:19
than I would let that carry on,
31:21
you know, even if I never got to have another one,
31:23
you know, it'd be very sad,
31:24
but it's not our right
31:26
to have these animals as pets,
31:28
you know, while they're out there
31:29
and they need rescuing,
31:30
you know, I will keep doing it,
31:31
but I think it's,
31:32
I'd rather let it go
31:33
and then be a better as a species
31:36
and be happy.
31:36
But yeah, it's difficult, I think, isn't it?
31:38
Like to grapple with,
31:39
but you're right,
31:40
it comes from the human arrogance.
31:42
Yeah.
31:42
Oh my God, Murray is wanting the love today.
31:46
He's really all like purring into the mic.
31:48
I don't know if it was picked up earlier.
31:50
I'd like to hear a little purr.
31:51
I can't hear anything,
31:52
but no, can't beat a bit of purring.
31:56
But yeah, I mean,
31:56
it's so wonderful to hear you both saying this
31:58
because it's so true, isn't it?
32:00
I think we need to bring about change.
32:02
We should start a campaign,
32:03
adopt, don't shop across all different pets
32:05
because I think you hear that more
32:07
for dogs and cats, don't you?
32:10
Yeah.
32:10
Adopt a rescue dog instead of buying one
32:13
or buying a puppy.
32:14
But I'm not sure there's much awareness
32:16
or as much awareness about hamsters.
32:20
I mean, I could go on a whole thing
32:22
about rabbits as well.
32:23
I mean, there's a lot of the same problems
32:25
and guinea pigs too.
32:26
But I think small animals quite often
32:29
are seen as these like starter pets
32:30
or they don't need much space.
32:32
There's still a lot of misinformation
32:34
is out there.
32:34
So yeah, I could go on another tangent about them.
32:36
But I think for small animals, absolutely.
32:39
There's so many out there that need rescuing.
32:41
You know, there's so many out there
32:42
that are being bred in not great ways
32:44
that's creating more issues for them.
32:46
So, and there's plenty that need rescuing.
32:48
So if you can rescue, absolutely do.
32:51
And it's so rewarding, like I said,
32:52
you know, to bring in an animal
32:54
that's not had a great start,
32:55
that's angry and angry at the world.
32:58
And then it becomes, you know, loving
32:59
and, you know, and happy.
33:00
And you think, yeah, well, I helped there.
33:02
I helped there.
33:03
It's only one tiny hamster,
33:04
but, you know, I helped there.
33:06
Yeah, you made the world a difference.
33:07
Like little pudding started out as a little bit angry
33:09
and a little bit feisty and now adores you.
33:12
I've seen so much more from hamsters.
33:14
I mean, I've been on some social media sites
33:17
and there's lovely people out there
33:18
who adore their hamsters
33:20
and the recall that they seem to have
33:22
and the fact they'll take themselves to bed
33:24
and they've got freedom to roam.
33:25
It's just like, so it's amazing.
33:27
I didn't know they had that much intelligence.
33:29
It's just gorgeous to look at.
33:30
Yeah, I see people out there
33:32
doing like teaching the hamsters to spin
33:33
and stuff like that,
33:34
like you would do with the dog.
33:36
Yeah, she will come to, if I call her,
33:37
if I'm like, or when she's out,
33:39
she has a playpen with lots of other toys in it,
33:41
which is big and right in front of me at the moment.
33:44
But I mean, it's got another wheel in it.
33:45
So she comes out there in the evenings
33:48
sometimes to have a play.
33:49
And if I say, do you want uppies?
33:51
And she's ready to go home.
33:52
She'll run to a certain point
33:53
and stand on the top of her log
33:55
and like stand on her back paws.
33:56
And that means like, yeah, I'm ready to go home.
33:58
Now put me back.
33:59
If I say it when she's not ready,
34:00
she just won't bother.
34:01
Yeah.
34:01
Oh, sometimes I have to be like,
34:05
it's time now we have to go to bed.
34:07
But obviously they're nocturnal.
34:08
That's the only consideration,
34:09
you know, they are nocturnals.
34:10
And I think everything you're saying
34:12
about letting animals be animals
34:13
is just sending my brain whirring here
34:15
thinking that could apply
34:17
to so many other pets as well.
34:19
And something for us to explore.
34:21
Natalie, what does it really mean
34:22
to be a cat or a dog or other animals?
34:25
Like what are the things that
34:27
we need to do to support them?
34:28
Just be themselves, I guess.
34:30
And people get pets
34:32
for all the right reasons.
34:34
Well, they always have good intentions.
34:35
But yeah, they're always,
34:37
things don't always work out
34:38
in the right way.
34:39
And sometimes it can be
34:40
a little bit of a selfish thing too.
34:41
So sort of mindful of that,
34:43
having listened to you today,
34:44
thinking about what can I do
34:46
to support Betty that is right for her,
34:48
not always about what's right for me.
34:50
One thing that I really changed
34:53
with dogs, just thinking about
34:55
let dogs be dogs is
34:57
when I'm sort of walking dogs,
34:58
when they're sniffing,
34:59
I think quite often
35:00
you're kind of like, come on,
35:01
like we've got to get going.
35:03
But actually that's
35:04
how they explore the world.
35:05
It's how they understand the world.
35:06
That's actually like
35:07
the mental stimulation for them.
35:08
And that is, you know,
35:09
that is them going on a walk
35:10
is them sniffing.
35:11
So now I'm much more like patient
35:13
and let them like sniff
35:14
for like 20 minutes and be like,
35:16
OK, you're enjoying this.
35:17
Like you can do that.
35:18
And it's a small thing.
35:19
And I'm not saying you can always do it
35:20
because life isn't perfect.
35:22
But there are small things
35:23
that we can do that just let them
35:25
like be more dog or, you know,
35:26
be more cat or whatever, you know.
35:29
Yeah, my whole drive with my animals
35:31
is to try and give them
35:32
as much autonomy and choice as possible.
35:34
So I love to just kind of let them,
35:36
yeah, choose where they want to sleep,
35:37
choose where they want to go,
35:38
when they want to eat to some degree.
35:40
I mean, we kind of measure food out
35:42
so they're not over gorging.
35:43
But if I can do that
35:44
and give them freedom
35:45
to live as they want to live,
35:46
that's where I'm aiming to get to.
35:48
Yeah, if we did that with the dog,
35:49
if we just had free food,
35:51
I spent most of my time
35:53
lives across the road,
35:53
but I've known her since she was a puppy
35:54
and I see her three or four times a week.
35:56
If we left food out all the time,
35:57
yeah, it'd be dangerous.
35:58
But I totally agree with you in principle,
36:00
but I could just,
36:01
she would think that she would...
36:02
No, for some animals you can't.
36:04
Yeah, I think Betty would eat me
36:05
if she could.
36:06
Oh, yeah.
36:07
All day.
36:08
We're under no illusions
36:09
that if something happened to us,
36:11
I would absolutely eat her.
36:12
Absolutely.
36:13
There's obviously a difference
36:14
between cats and dogs.
36:15
So my cats have been very well free feeders,
36:17
but I know there's a lot of other sort of side
36:19
to it with some cats
36:20
that can overeat and get obese.
36:21
So you've got to be careful.
36:22
I'm not saying everyone should do that.
36:24
No, no, no, I know, absolutely.
36:24
And I totally agree with you.
36:25
Like they, yeah,
36:26
they deserve that autonomy
36:27
and they deserve to show those behaviors
36:29
and a bit of control over their own life,
36:32
I think.
36:33
Yeah.
36:34
Hear, hear.
36:34
Yeah.
36:35
Couldn't agree more.
36:35
Thank you.
36:36
So interesting.
36:37
Thanks for sharing.
36:38
I mean, doing this with other people
36:40
on other subjects
36:41
in a very lovely sort of just gentle way,
36:43
I think the way to sort of
36:45
help people understand more.
36:47
So thank you, Laura.
36:48
That's all right.
36:49
I think, yeah, the message to people,
36:50
it's OK if you,
36:51
it's OK if you're not doing it.
36:53
It's OK if you got it wrong,
36:54
like do your best.
36:54
And if you can't transition
36:56
to an amazing hamster set up immediately,
36:59
do the small things,
36:59
like get the size of the cage right first.
37:02
And then, you know,
37:03
try and add in the other things as you go,
37:04
like just do the best that you can.
37:06
And it's OK if you didn't know this before,
37:09
like that's OK.
37:10
None of, we all started somewhere.
37:12
Yeah.
37:12
So, yeah, absolutely.
37:14
More than happy to share, to share it.
37:16
And I hope it loves that.
37:17
Thank you, it is.
37:17
We're all learning.
37:18
But yeah, really appreciate you coming on,
37:20
on our podcast.
37:22
Thank you for having me
37:23
and just letting me talk about my favorite topics.
37:25
Yeah.
37:26
We could talk all day about this, couldn't we?
37:27
I mean, there's so many more things I want to ask, but.
37:30
There are.
37:30
Maybe another session.
37:32
Yeah, another session.
37:33
Definitely.
37:34
For sure.
37:35
Cool.
37:35
All right, thank you so much.