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Noland Arbaugh (2024) - Neurolink:A First-Hand Account · The Joe Rogan Recap

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  Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap. Great to be here.
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  Today we are really diving deep into just a fascinating
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  conversation. It's from the Joe Rogan
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  Experience episode Hashtag 2167 featuring Noland Arbaugh.
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  Yeah, Noland Arbaugh. He's the first person, the first
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  human to receive a Neuralink brain computer interface.
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  A huge deal. Absolutely huge.
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  So our mission today really is to unpack what came out of that
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  discussion. We want to look at, you know,
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  what the Neuralink implant can actually do right now, how Nolan
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  ended up in this trial, his whole journey, and then
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  obviously the bigger picture. What are the implications?
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  What's next? And we've got the transcripts
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  from the YouTube video of that conversation to guide us, so we
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  can really dig into the specifics.
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  Perfect. So Nolan being the first, I
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  mean, Rogan's pretty blown away by just the historical weight of
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  it. You.
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  Definitely got that sense. It's not just a tech demo.
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  It's like a turning point potentially.
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  But to really get it, you need to understand Nolan's own story.
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  Yeah, exactly. His background is key.
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  Before we even talk about the tech itself.
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  You know what led him there? He had this, the swimming
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  accident, right? A.
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  Diving accident actually dislocated his C4C5 vertebrae.
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  Which resulted in quadriplegia, very limited hand movement, no
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  sensation below the shoulders. It's it's hard to fathom that
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  kind of change. It really is.
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  And you know, the way he got into the knurling trial, it
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  wasn't this super complex drawn out thing you might expect.
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  Oh really? Yeah, a friend suggested it and
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  the initial application, Just a phone call.
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  Pretty casual considering. Wow, just a phone call for
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  potentially getting a brain implant.
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  Seems that way then. It was about a month long
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  screening process. Zoom calls some in person tests.
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  Quite focused it sounds like. OK, so he goes through the
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  process, gets the implant, let's talk capabilities.
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  What can he actually do with this thing in his head right
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  now? OK.
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  So the basics, it connects wirelessly via Bluetooth to a
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  computer. Neurolink has its own app that
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  acts as the interface. And the implant itself, it's
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  those threads, right? Exactly 64 super fine threads,
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  each with 16 electrodes. They implant these into the
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  motor cortex. That's the part of the brain
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  that, you know, plans and executes voluntary movements.
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  Right, but his injury prevents those signals from reaching his
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  body. So how does the implant pick up
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  on anything? That's the key.
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  Even if the signal can't travel down the spinal cord, the brain
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  still generates the intention to move.
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  The neurons in the motor cortex fire when he thinks about moving
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  his hand, for example. OK.
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  So the electrodes were detecting those tiny electrical signals,
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  the intention itself. Precisely, they're listening for
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  those neural firing patterns associated with wanting to move.
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  But how does the computer know what move cursor left looks like
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  in terms of brain signals? That seems incredibly complex.
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  It is, and that's where the machine learning comes in.
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  At first they trained the system by having Nolan attempt to make
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  movements. He tried to move his hand, even
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  said didn't physically move much.
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  The algorithm learns to map the specific patterns of brain
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  activity during those attempts to the desired computer action,
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  like moving the cursor. It's like learning his brain's
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  specific language for movement. So the AI is essentially
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  decoding his intentions. You got it.
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  And the really amazing part, he said Pretty quickly he moved
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  beyond needing to attempt the movement.
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  He could just imagine it. Just think about moving the
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  cursor, yeah? He described it as like becoming
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  intuitive, just thinking move there and it would.
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  That's incredible. So he can navigate a computer,
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  type, browse the web just by thinking.
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  That's what he's doing playing video games too, and they're
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  even working on mapping. Imagine sign language.
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  So he thinks the hand signs and the goal is for the system to
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  translate that into text. Sign language to text.
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  That's another level. Early days on that but showing
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  promise. He's actively working with him
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  on training that. That progress sounds really
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  fast, but surely there must have been bumps in the road,
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  unexpected issues. It's such new territory.
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  Oh, absolutely. There was a significant
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  challenge. About a month after the implant
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  surgery, they noticed the performance.
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  Well, it started to decline. The signal wasn't as strong.
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  What happened? It turned out some of those tiny
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  threads, the 64 threads, had started to retract slightly,
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  pulling out of the brain tissue just a bit.
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  Global retracting, pulling out? That sounds not good.
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  Can they see that happening like with an MRI or something?
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  Actually, no. These threads are incredibly
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  small. You know, finer than hair.
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  Current scanning tech just doesn't have the resolution to
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  see them directly without potentially risky procedures.
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  So how did they know they were retracting?
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  They figured it out from the data itself by looking at which
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  electrodes were still picking up clear neural signals and which
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  weren't. That pattern indicated some
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  threads must have moved. OK, so why were they retracting?
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  Did they figure that out? They.
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  Did, and it led to a pretty interesting discovery.
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  It turns out the human brain moves pulsates more than they
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  initially thought. More.
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  How much more? Their models were based on maybe
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  1mm of movement, you know, pulsing with a heartbeat.
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  But they observed closer to 3mm in Nolan's case. 3mm that's
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  quite a difference. It is, and that extra movement
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  likely put stress on those delicate threads, causing some
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  to pull back over time. It really highlights the
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  challenge of interfacing rigid tech with soft, dynamic biology.
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  So did they have to do another surgery?
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  How did they fix the performance drop?
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  This is actually pretty impressive.
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  They didn't go for more surgery, at least not yet.
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  They focused on the software side, tweaking the algorithms to
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  be more sensitive, essentially to better interpret the signals
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  from the remaining fully embedded threads.
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  And that worked. It did, he said.
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  The performance actually got better than it was before the
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  dip, even with fewer functional threads providing data.
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  It shows how powerful the software component is.
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  That's amazing adaptability. And he mentioned this is just
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  the first version, right? The expectation is future
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  upgrades. Exactly.
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  Neuralink has been clear that upgrade ability is a core design
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  goal, which makes sense for something like this.
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  It's not meant to be a one and done implant for life
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  necessarily. OK, so the tech is advancing
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  fast. They're overcoming challenges.
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  Let's shift a bit to the why the big medical goals restoring
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  movement for paralysis seems like the obvious one.
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  That's definitely a primary driver.
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  The long term vision is pretty ambitious.
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  It involves potentially having implants both in the brain to
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  capture the intent and below the spinal cord injury.
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  To bridge the gap. Precisely, the implants would
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  communicate with each other wirelessly, creating a sort of
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  neural bypass around the damaged section of the spine, restoring
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  the connection to the muscles. Are they testing that?
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  I think he mentioned animal studies.
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  Yeah, they're doing work with pigs, implanting devices in the
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  brain and spinal cord and showing they can use the brain
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  signals to control leg movements.
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  Now, those pigs weren't paralyzed, but it's proof of
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  concept for creating that bridge.
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  So Nolan's quite hopeful. Then he talked about a future
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  where paralysis isn't necessarily permanent.
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  He did. He has this vision, this hope
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  that maybe someday people get implants and can regain
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  significant mobility relatively quickly.
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  It's a powerful idea. Of course, there are other
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  hurdles, right? Like muscle atrophy if someone's
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  been paralyzed a long time. Absolutely.
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  Restoring the signal is one thing, but the muscles
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  themselves would need serious rehabilitation to function.
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  Again, it's a complex problem with multiple layers.
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  And it's not just movement, is it?
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  Neuralink is looking at other things like restoring sight.
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  Yes, that's another major research.
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  Ave. Nolan talked about ongoing work,
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  I believe with monkeys showing early results in generating some
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  form of vision. How does?
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  That work bypassing the eyes. Essentially, yes, stimulating
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  the visual cortex directly. He described the current state
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  of this blind sight implant as being like early Nintendo
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  graphics. OK, that paints a picture.
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  Low resolution, but functional. Right.
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  But he also mentioned the potential down the line for this
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  kind of tech to maybe even exceed normal human vision.
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  That's much further out, of course.
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  Still fascinating. He also mentioned something
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  really wild for vision restoration, the tooth and eye
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  surgery. Oh yeah, osteoedonto
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  peritoprosthesis. It sounds bizarre, but it's a
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  real procedure for specific types of severe corneal
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  blindness. How?
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  Does that even. Work.
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  They take one of the patient's own teeth, shape it, embed a
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  lens into it, and then implant the whole thing into the eye,
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  using the patient's own tissue to hold it.
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  Because it's their own tissue, rejection is much less likely.
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  It's pretty credible medical engineering.
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  Wow. OK, let's pull back to Nolan
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  himself, his personal perspective through all this.
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  It was really compelling in the interview, being the first
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  person that he talked about being scared.
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  He was definitely open about that, acknowledged the
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  apprehension, the unknowns, the risks of being patient 0
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  essentially. But his motivation seems really
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  strong. Which was?
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  Wanting to help push the technology forward to contribute
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  something that could, you know, ultimately help a lot of people
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  dealing with paralysis. He also mentioned how the
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  paralysis itself changed him. Didn't he before Neuralink even
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  came along? Yeah, he talked about gaining a
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  lot more self-awareness, a different perspective on life,
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  focusing more on making a positive impact.
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  And despite being this this pioneer, he seemed really down
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  to earth. You didn't like the Pioneer or
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  astronaut labels? Exactly.
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  Very humble about the whole thing, which was quite striving.
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  And you mentioned gaming earlier.
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  He seemed genuinely excited about just being able to play
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  video games again. Oh yeah, that was clearly a huge
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  quality of life thing for him. He specifically mentioned
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  playing Civilization 6 and he's looking forward to playing
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  things like Halo, Call of Duty. Did he joke about having an
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  advantage like an aimbot? He did.
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  He joked about the potential for aimbot accuracy with direct
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  brain control, and he's even hooked up to a Nintendo Switch
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  through his computer and shows the flexibility.
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  That's great. Is he sharing his experiences
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  anywhere online? Yep, he's on X and Instagram as
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  at moded quad MODEQUAD. You mentioned plans to maybe
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  even stream his gaming sessions. So people can follow along.
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  That's cool. Nolan Arbaugh's experience, I
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  mean, it really is this powerful window into what neurotechnology
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  might become. Absolutely.
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  Hearing directly from him of what works now, the hurdles they
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  hit, where it might go. It's such a unique and valuable
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  perspective. You can't get that from a press
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  release. No, definitely not this deep
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  dive. It's really highlighted both the
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  sheer technological leap and the very human story of the first
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  person living with this kind of BCI.
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  For sure. And it makes you think, doesn't
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  it? About the future, about human
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  augmentation, about how we interact with tech and with our
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  own brains. We definitely encourage you
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  listening to follow Nolan's journey online if you're
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  interested and just keep exploring this whole field, it's
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  moving so fast. It really is lots to think
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  about. Thank you for taking this deep
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  dive with us today.